Since the Trump-GOP tax scam, I mean plan, was enacted in 2018, America’s 748 billionaires have seen an increase in their wealth of $2.2 trillion -- that’s trillion, with a T. Combined, these households are now worth $5 trillion, but they pay only a fraction of the income-tax rate paid by the rest of us.
How disgusting!!! That’s why they are trying to eliminate Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid along with SNAP, student loan forgiveness, food stamps, etc…, and refuse to pass universal healthcare because they don’t need it! They are living the life of Riley, as my Dad used to say.
Shockingly Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Michael Bloomberg paid ZERO federal income tax in several recent years. They can afford to pay a little more than the average American and continue their extravagant lifestyle. And they call themselves Christians. I think not!
1. Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."
Hebrews 13:5
2. Greed and a desire for riches are traps that bring ruin and destruction. “The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil,” and Christians are warned, “Do not put your trust in wealth” (see 1 Timothy 6:9-10, 17-18).
What is weird is that the GOP attacks "entitlements" because they can slash funding to whichever programs and then cut more taxes to their wealthy donors. Its not that the wealthy dont need it. Its that they want the money that funds it. The Home Depot CEO Ken Lengune yelled and screamed "Why am I able to get $60000 a year in SSI?" This is a look over here issue. What he doesnt say is he pays 18% on his income when he should be paying at minimum 26%. If his income and wealth earns him $640,000,000 a year (I am just spit balling) then he would be paying $51,000,000 too little in taxes compared to everyone else. Keep your $60 from SSI and give the government its fair share!
I know replying to myself so tacky. In addition if SSI benefits were halved at in this example $30k instead of $60k at 7.7 million recipients that would mean $231 Billion in tax breaks that could be sent to the rich folk. Who doesnt think they aren't salivating at that. That would be $313 Million dollars in free money on average per billionaire.
Since you bring up saving money on SS and entitlements, I suspect that the lowering of life expectancy is also in part related to saving money. For each year of less life of an average person it must be way over $20,000 saved. Does this explain GOP policies from being against school lunches to being against health care? I only ask because i still don’t want to believe they actually want people to die younger. In my heart I don’t think so, but my gut and head says this is so.
I've looked into public assistance. The bars to enter are so high that the children who would qualify for food stamps or school breakfast/lunch programs are in impoverished house holds. When a persons stomach is full and everyone around them is full, why would a person think another person could be hungry. On cuts to education I think that is a direct attack education. On attacks on school lunch, food stamps, health care that to me seems to be a money grab. For congressmen/women and senators the big donors keep them fed. Not the poor voter so they have little reason to fight for such programs and would rather send that money to corporations or billionaire donors. And thus a kid gets sent to school starving, because feeding a child is an entitlement. Giving rich people more money that they didnt earn is supporting the economy....right.
I would argue that they want access to all public institutions- post office, education, social safety net, etc. For one, they want control of that Revenue. But number two, they also get more power over the lives of those employees! salaries, job security (employment at will), benefits (anti-union efforts), etc. You become dependent upon their will for you, and if you decide to strike or buck their system you and your family are screwed, because with no safety net, "if you don't work, you don't eat", and every aspect of your life, and quality there of, is controlled by them!
Keep in mind also the stated tRump and Republican plans to destroy the Civil Service system in U.S. government. Only the ignorant or craven crime syndicate would think that a good idea; it is another tentacle of the plans to utterly destroy America as we have known it, until recent years.
Same as post office, education, social safety net, etc. But more nefarious! For one, they want control of that Revenue. But number two, they also get more power over the lives of those employees! salaries, job security (employment at will), benefits (anti-union efforts), etc. You become dependent upon their will for you, and if you decide to strike or buck their system you and your family are screwed, because with no safety net, "if you don't work, you don't eat", and every aspect of your life, and quality there of, is controlled by them! Number 3, to infiltrate destroy Democracy- the power of the people! To eliminate our already weakened ability to decide who our representatives are and to cripple our limited ability to influence the policies that directly impact our lives. To replace democracy with an autocracy... fascism- a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascists) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
fyiurban. Art 12 of the 1936 Soviet Constitution and the foundation of libertarianism, Ayn Rand,
ARTICLE 12. In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honour for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat."
Do you think Republican politicians want people who read and comprehend what they read. None of the powerful people do. they want him just smart enough to take the crummy jobs and run the machines and barely keep the economy going and paying the taxes so they can continue getting richer. it’s really that simple. And just to prove it look how easy Trump has controlled the uneducated class in America.
Cutting education is intentional on two fronts: 1. A dumb society doesn't realize what's happening and will continue to vote against their own self interest. 2. Pushing people away from public schools into charters and private and home options gives the government even more control over education in a backhanded way, no standards at all!
charter schools puts the money and power associated with education into the hands of corporate interests and billionaires. It allows them to bypass the job security, pay structure and other benefits of unionized employees, giving them power over those employees, because they dictate employee security (or lack there of), pay and benefits. Usually in a way that makes the corporation/billionaire more wealthy, at the expense of the worker. It also allows them to bend curriculum to their will.
I remember a runners club for disabled and disadvantaged kids (usually both). It started out benefitting the poor kids greatly. The group helped those kids with training the cost of entering races or to get transportation to track events. Then the middle classers came in. These folks had state paid aids watching there kids and had enough money to pay for their kids races and transport. During one meeting the middle classers demanded equal monetary benefits for lodging transportation and race fees. They got it. Then the money got dilluted and the poor folks couldnt afford to go to events anymore. But the middle classers did. So a group of folks who could afford the expenses got an entitlement and the ones who needed it got too little and thus only half the group (the more wealthy) benefited. This inequality is vouchering in a nutshell.
True. Those that have been paying to segregate themselves into private schools, including religious schools, are now demanding the same benefits given to lower income people that can't afford private schools. While corporate interests and religious organizations get access to revenue they haven't had access to.
Well, I don't think it takes a lot for a parent to home school their children from what is happening in the schools. With depraved policies for example on transgender women showing their penises in the women's locker room; books assumed suitable for children depicting a boy inserting his penis into another boy's rectum. Are we insane thinking these abominations are acceptable? What standards are there in government-controlled education. One of the worst education systems in the world of wealthy nations.
De Nada. Lies like this and the ones that foster antisemitism, pollute the universe, and are eaten up by small minds that see in them confirmation bias.
I would pity the ignorant phucks, like Rhonda Santis who claimed that slaves benefited from slavery.
Trained or not they still lost family were beaten and some rapped by their masters. I'm sure there was a good owner once in awhile but most people are bullies when it comes to power over others.
The locker room incident did happen. Here's a link to local press coverage on the US incident, in case you want to know about it. I am sorry that you find the idea upsetting, but it did occur.
You forget or or willfully overlooked one word. Trans student exposed girls to male genitalia in school locker room, legal group CLAIMS
Key word claims. I also looked up The Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty, who made this claim, which they did not follow up with a civil suit or criminal complaint, and it turns out that is an ultraconservative organization working to promote Bigotry throughout Wisconsin and the United States.
I have a friend who lives in Wisconsin and has told me all about them, they keep going and they will wind up on the SPLC list of hate groups.
Anyone who sees Law and Liberty in any organizations name, should have the hairs on the nape of the neck stand up. These Theocratic Bigots will lie and do lie. fpr the sake of their authoritarian agenda.
The words Law, Justice and Liberty are just the opposite of what people think, you have to read them by reverse, just like the infamous Mom's For Liberty
You got sucked in, assuming good faith on your part, because this played right into your own fears and concerns. I don't know what kind of life experience you had, but it must have been traumatic, just like any other TERF.
Well, here we go again William. Clearly there was no post op in this case. And for a trans woman to be naked in the biological women's locker room showed no trepidation at all.
If this viewpoint is against democrat progressive ideology then for sure I am not a progressive,
Cognitive dissonance?
Cognitive dissonance is a mental discomfort that arises when a person holds two or more contradictory beliefs, values, or attitudes. This can lead to a state of tension and anxiety, as the person tries to reconcile their conflicting thoughts.
In this case I do not see this condition in myself. Unless I am violating democratic progressive group think.
A post op transwoman is not a voyeur, she is doing her business like any other woman. And she probably has trepidation about undressing in public, she certainly isn't there for puerile purposes, but if you think she is, then that tells me more about you, than her.
You Phil are projecting. Projecting why you would be in a women's dressing room
First it was a bath room Phil now it is a dressing room, care to move the goal posts some more.
You are totally ignorant and all you can do is project.
No Phil you are not a progressive, you sound like a pervert, projecting.
As regards cognitive dissonance, I know what it is, thank you. And I was talking about cognitive dissonance by the transwoman. That you took it to apply to yourself is a huge tell Phil.
You have serious sexual hangups Phil, so no, not a progressive. That you are threatened by trans, informs me that "thou doth protest too much", and I have a nephew who wears women's underwear because it is sexually arousing.
You didn't see my post about homophobes, Their was a Stanford Study, and using electrodes wire to penis and heart rate, and showing pictures of male porn. They discovered that the more homophobic the subject, the more he was aroused by gay porn.
That is the propaganda litany of the cult that is taking over what was once a progressive, well-educated, prosperous country. Of course what you are describing is unacceptable as part of our system of education and, in FACT, it is NOT part of our public education system in America! What IS an abomination is the "home schooling" movement that is NOT educating kids, but is either neglecting them, abusing them or brainwashing them. Authorities at all levels - education, law enforcement - have cited horrific cases of child abuse and neglect occurring out of sight and intervention to protect children because they are being "home schooled" and at the mercy and control of whoever is claiming to do the "home schooling."
As for charter schools: Betsy DeVos has been a huge money-bags supporter and mover for charter schools. She never ever attended any public school and in her home state of Michigan has done everything in her big-bucks power to undermine public schools. Charter schools in Michigan have been a huge money-maker for private interests. Those who endorse home-schooling, charter schools or any other form of schooling that will sabotage PUBLIC education also love transferring public tax dollars into religious schools. It is a big con game implemented by the crime syndicate that is the "Republican Party" who despise anything PUBLIC and anything that might benefit anyone that is not them.
CNN aired a report from a town in Louisiana that began with a report on their "red-neck parade" that was a parody of traditional Christmas parades. The reporter was on-site interviewing numerous people from this small town. The town was described as - and looked it - as being very impoverished in every way. And yet.....and yet.....every single person interviewed said they would vote for tRump, said how he cared about them, blamed Biden for their worsening problems, etc. etc. etc.
Anybody doubt we have serious problems, whether from the disingenuous badgering by U.S. Representatives of university presidents or university presidents forgetting the difference between simple matters of right and wrong or "impoverished red necks" in Louisiana thinking tRump (or Mike Johnson) likes them and cares about them??
Although I agree with Professor Reich's point in this essay, my question is this: Stefanik's questions were disingenous, as are all of the questions put by "Republicans" in these "inquisition" hearings of all kinds of people. So the question is: IF Stefanik had gotten the answer she was demanding, her next question would have been: and how will you deal with those who are protesting and chanting anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, hate-filled calls for violence against Jews (or any other group)? And what would the "correct" answer from those presidents to that question be?
I think part of the deeper problem is that Trump has now validated the open expression of resentment and racist hatred (against "vermin" who will "poison the bloodline" of America) and has celebrated violence as political speech (Jan.6).
He has unleashed Fear and Intimidation to the point where civil discourse, and those who should be championing it, are left spinning in circles.
And sadly, (big) money triumphs over civil discourse (I don't like what you said, so take my name off the library).
The great experiment in freedom and democracy is running into very turbulent waters.
My wife home-schooled our daughter. She finished one year early. She gained a BA in music business, and later an MA in Entertainment business. She is now the Marketing Manager for a Hi-Tech company. We purchased a curriculum from a school specializing in home schooling, and they sent the exam each year and graded it. If one decides to home school, there is an investment side to this approach.
There is a danger in making generalizations. Not all home-schooled children are left to "teach" themselves and suffer a poor education...
Anecdotal accounts of individual "home school" experiences can always be shown to support one point or another. There is a good article in today's (December 12, 2023) Washington Post about research on home schooling. It's very interesting. There are also news reports from all over the country over the years of the "home school" trend of children being dropped right through all of the cracks and gaps in all systems, most horrifically through any system that might protect them from monstrous "care takers" who are ostensibly doing "home schooling."
I'm sure you are not the exception but neither are you the rule.
As for me, I think PUBLIC elements of our society are a key part of what has set this country apart from all other countries in all other eras of human endeavor; it's been a beautiful thing, an enlightened thing: public education for all; public libraries, public parks, public swimming pools & swimming lessons, public hospitals, public HEALTH services of all kinds, public mail services, and on and on; and all of these facets of American life (and more) have been under relentless attack by "Republican" so-called "conservative" groups forever; they seem to have that schadenfreude view of life that anything that benefits all must surely take away from THEIR own entitlements! and "conservative" is in quotes because there is nothing conservative about those groups, except when it comes to "conserving" what THEY deem necessary to conserve, and that brand of "conservatism" will invariably mean that everyone will pay to conserve the "conservatives" demands: pay through the nose while losing what benefits ALL in order to provide for what benefits the "conservatives."
The "gummit is the enemy" crowd, the "get gummit out of our business" crowd, is currently slimey-alive in Texas (and similar knuckle-dragging locales) where enslaving women as vessels to carry embryos and produce fetuses is their m.o.
Seeing huge swaths of streets in other countries FILLED with people - men and women - who will NOT allow government to enslave women, to make health and family decisions for women/men/families is poignant because in AMERICA ("land of the free. home of the brave") it is becoming a secret underground railroad situation to help women get the health/reproductive/family planning care they need!
And finally, who in the HELL does that vile, abomination of a so-called human, Texas AG Ken Paxton - ugly, disgusting, contemptible crook - think he is?!!! And WHERE are the WOMEN of the United States of America??!!
I taught in NYC intermediate schools for over 30 years . I was a dean for over six years and I never heard of or knew of any trans person showing their penis. I can recall several occasions where kids considered straight exposed themselves.I do recall an occasional gay student being harassed into harming themselves and cutting class to avoid their tormentors.
I agree what makes the top 20% think they are entitled to double the wealth of the bottom 80%? The bottom 60% make $1 of income for every $99 of what the top 1% make. Thats an incredible amount of inequality that causes power to be concentrated in the hands of 737 billionaires and 22 million millionaires. That thry only got due to absurdly low tax rates and exclusions on wealth income as taxable income.
The GenZ kids think they are entitled to something because they are living out of their cars instead of apartments or houses. Those with college degrees are living with their parents and debt coming out of their asses.
Gen Z realizes that Corporate interests and the Billionaire class, have had no loyalty to the generations before them and therefore understand the same will have no loyalty to them. They choose not to be subservient to those corporations and billionaires. And in fact, choose to push back against them.
“The villain in reality is those who 1. think they are entitled to the earnings and services of others. “ do you mean the owners of businesses who benefit disproportionately from the work of others? If so we agree.
You have great company, not only the billionaire "libertarians" and Trump Humpers, but
The 1936 constitution of the USSR
ARTICLE 12. In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honour for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat."
We've seen greed in the last century for the Fortune 500. At least those rich were philanthropists. Not a penny for COVID but profit for them. Never such a greedy generation in our history. They care little for anyone.
Anand Ghirahadas "Winner's Take All The Elite Charade of Changing The World" shows the issue with philanthropy. It hasnt changed since the time of Andrew Carnegie and the Gospel of wealth. Where any and all bad labor abusing or bad business practices are permissible as long as you "give it back" before you die, also another fallacy. The short and skinny of it is people will give back via philanthropy or engineer a philanthropy that benefits them and their company but has no intention of fixing the root cause of the problem. Billion dollar problem, Million dollar bandaid. We cant rely on companies and the wealthy to determine what is best to do with the wealth they earned from overly generous government tax regulation and poor worker representation. The way I see it without all the wealthy benefits most of they money they have they never should have had in the first place. That is to say that whatever they decide to do with the money that they shouldnt have "earned" in the first place is not their decision to make but the peoples in a democratic manor.
You are so right. The rich alone have no idea where money is needed. There is a point where no way can they spend all that money but pass it down to their children, etc. That creates bad people since they never have a desire to work or share...be a good person period. No one is an island is never learned.
I definitely agree. I look at the US this way. You have a 100 people in a room and 1 of those people thinks they're ideas are better than the other 99. So using their money and power they do whatever they want regardless of its affect on the other 99. If the 100 were properly represented that 1 person can still have their opinion fairly represented and the majority ideas of the 100 would prevail. Its the same with slices of pizza at a meeting. You've got that one guy who goes up to the table and takes 3 slices, the other folks take one a time and some get none. All because of that person who is entitled to think their greed is more important than other peoples needs. Needs over Greed.
DK, it is hard to begin to know what Republicans want beyond power. They love the idea of power and wielding it wherever they can. They have gotten abortion, for example made mostly illegal in their "red" states, but life has not gotten better for anyone in those states. They preach hate for trans youth and, trans people in general but life has not improved in the "red" states for the people there. They have blamed Democrats for all the people's woes while the people keep electing the fools who are often responsible for being sure nothing for the people improves. There is something really depressing about that. How can anyone reach people who are so deep in the impacts of the Republican addiction to power and the addiction to money of the celebrities they love learning about through our media and thinking they want to emulate?
Ruth, it's the Master's Mentality: when a master's authority is challenged s/he respond with moral outrage, vitriol, and, quite often, violence. The White ruling elites of the South feel challenged today as never before. Some of them are heavily invested in the fossil fuels industry. The old John C. Calhoun strategy of dividing poor Whites from Blacks is no longer sufficient. This is why they appeal to tribalism, sexism, racism, religion even.
Because they are told as the lyrics go in an old Bob Dylan song” you’re better than them you were born with white skin”. from the song “only a pawn in their game”.” today, Medgar, Evers was buried from the bullet he caught, they lowered him down as a king, but when the shadowy sun ,sets on the one ,that fired the gun, you’ll see by his grave on the stone that remains carved next to his name his epitaph claims ,he’s only a pawn in their game”. One of Bob’s best.
Not to stray too far from Dr. Reich’s angle in this piece, I’ve often wondered a similar thing about climate change denial.
After all, what groups suffer the most from cities sinking into the ocean and daytime temperatures too hot for the human body to withstand? Which demographic tends to be the ones working outside in un-air-conditioned spaces?
Black, brown, undereducated, immigrants and other poverty populations. Off with their heads.
I just read a horrifying piece on USPS deaths from heat exhaustion being covered up.
The megabillionaires want to rule the world.
So climate change is a convenient D&C (dusting and cleaning) for them. They have their underground bunkers, private fire fighters, yachts, etc. How they must laugh at us peons.
I wont follow the billionaires in their path of headonistic self destruction. They will toss aside minorities and the poor first, then the world will become to uninhabital for them too. Their rockets wont save them. Earth is the biggest mothership there is. We cant move somewhere else without earth as a giant supply station for that off world colony. Elon can have all the kids he wants they too will die if dont stop his and all the other billionaires pursuit of death.
Computer billionaire Larry Ellison once pitched a big project to Steve Jobs, who at that time was slowly dying of pancreatic cancer. Jobs asked him how many billions he had, and Ellison said somewhere between 10 and 15. Then Jobs asked, why do you need more?
Billionaires seem to be insatiable in their quest for more, more, more.
Dogmother, when you abandon hope, you stop looking for a savior, look in the mirror for your savior. Abandon hope and take up the sword, metaphorically of course, but literally later if the theocratic fascists take over the country.
The saddest pictures I have ever seen is of Jews marching into a mass grave to be shot, or streams of people debarking from freight cars to be marched into camps with gates marked with Arbeit Macht Frei.
They did so because they had hope.
The ones who lost hope, and took the threat seriously, fled Germany, or as in the Warsaw ghetto did not march into the cold dark night., but fought back and did not die like sheep, but took a few of the bastards with them.
It would explain the RepugnaF**KS' letting the Medicare (DIS)Advantage plan insurance company mega donors to themselves get away with literally killing their policyholders by delaying, and putting off paying for care until they die, or give up fighting them, and then die.
I would rather not think that they WANT it, but their actions and inactions certainly do nothing to prevent it (the "it" being what you described as wanting "people to die younger." The rampant death-march of Covid that ran through nursing homes/and other elderly group congregate housing, as well as Covid's disproportionate effect on Black Americans, is powerful testimony to the neglect, hatred, disregard - take your pick - for certain segments of our population. The relentless assault against Social Security and the lies they tell about it, the hostile propaganda they promote, are vile.
I always say that they would promote the Ice Floe Final Solution for Elders if they hadn't so arduously denied climate change and thus fueled (no pun) the disappearance of Earth's ice and its ice floes.
America's elders had the temerity to work, save, and enjoy even slightly improved health and longevity and the life-long contributions to Social Security. Republican administrations were successful at moving elders' savings and pensions over to Republican Wall Street paramours several decades ago, requiring that elders become individual investors. That has never been enough to satisfy that greedy, craven beast though, not until all the money is in the hands of Wall Street managers. Elders are increasingly painted as selfish leeches, when, in fact, it is the do-nothing but steal from tax-payers their - true use of the word - entitlements who are the selfish leeches, i.e. the "electeds" who are not public servants but are servants to the sources of wealth.
The malignant narcissist I dealt with that ran a pyramid scheme strongly believed he deserved every penny of what he stole. It was a mantra. "These people owe me. I deserve it."
That is what the toothless, bib overall redneck, said as he stood on the steps of his single wide, with trash littered yard, when he responded to documentartian Alexandra Pelosoi, when she asked "Why do you opposed to food stamps?" He responde, because them "lazy niques don't deserve them". She replied, but you get food stamps, his response was "That's OK because I earned them" (how selling bottles and cans for recycling?
I certainly don’t know anyone on SSI who gets $60K per year. In my generous state (MN), the average SSI payment is less that $600/month. Annual comparisons of rent for one-bedroom apartments vs SSI show that there is not one county in the US where a person whose sole income is SSI can find an affordable apartment. What is this jerk talking about???
Anyone who pays the maximum allowable tax rate for SSI, I think its taxes on $400,000? Can then get the max SSI benefit. Its not something you or will ever see. The main problem is SSI itself uses about $55 Billion a year. The GOP would love to get rid of all $55 billion and send that money in the form of tax breaks to the already filthy rich.
Its who the government doesnt take the money from that is a problem. We are getting taxed between 26% and 38%. Billionaires are taxed at an average effective tax rate of 8%. Through manipulation of the laws corporations and billionaires have made things this way. Only the government can ever claw that back. Even if it pissed it all away. Less money in the hands of the gilded few is better means more influence for we the 300 million non gilded age voters.
Yeap quote your funny facts. Warren buffet pays a effective tax of 0.26% That seems pretty close to 26%. You can play your rich peoples harp all day long. I am done talking to you.
B.S. Lonny. The wealthy do not pay 26%, most do not pay taxes at all, Bezo's doesn't, Musk doesn't. They have enough money to take advantage of exemptions, deductions, and tax credits, to not pay a thing. They deduct their airplanes and cars as a business expense, either amortized or deducted lump sum, when deducted lump sum, they then go out and buy another, and cliam that as an expense.
A Yacht and it's maintance are business expenses, they use them at least once for a business meeting.
Trump paid no taxes for the last five years, save one in which he paid $750
You have been fed a bunch of poison, and gladly swallowed it, because of confirmation bias.
Lenny you are a beneficiary of socialism. From the roads you drive on, to the air corridors you fly through, from your education, to the education of your health providers, to the funding of drugs by the government, from the water you drink, to the electricity you use.
How do you think billionaires became billionaires, they have done it with your taxes.
So why do you defend the 10%, do you think you believe that one day you will be one too.
Or is it your hatred and resentment of people of color, and those "less worthy than you"
You have done a very good job of exposing your self as a sociopath Lenny.
I checked Reich’s LinkedIn page where he also posts the same newsletter which sends the reader to Substack. Today’s newsletter hasn’t posted on LinkedIn yet. Hopefully it doesn’t until this gets fixed. Robert gets a lot more negative comments over on LinkedIn since the subscriber base is more business oriented and more conservative.
Sorry, folks, it appears I've been hacked. (I'm working with substack at the moment to eliminate the hacker. It's really me only when there's a purple check mark after my name.)
That should give you warm fuzzy feelings and cause you to rejoice when elderly and disabled people lose their homes and end up homeless, living on the streets till they conveniently die from hunger and cold weather. Think of all the real estate you can gobble up.
Steve Mnuchin, Trump's Secretary of the Treasury, made billions off (some say he invented) the fake-mortgage-asset schemes that almost caused a depression, was called the "foreclosure king." Trump loved him, called him a financial genius.
And what will you do when it runs out? Depend on the pension your employer set aside, don't bank on it. ENRON employees had a nice retirement program, as did Sears and other corporations, until they went bankrupt and/or bought up by another corporation.
Maybe you hire someone to steal your money, or invest it yourself, lots of luck when the next Jerome Powell/DJT depression hits.
You had best be an old fart like me, because if you are younger, the chances of you retiring or living to retiring are pretty damn bad, and those billionaire em effers that you love so much, will not escape the speeding train roaring down the tracks, and neither will you.
Folk like you are like the mother stuck on RR tracks, dialing a cell phone for help, telling the kids in the back seat, that not to worry, they will hear the train coming in time.
Bill, you're right about the taxes. Those guys are addicted to money and power. I know I have said this before, but we seem to ignore that. We act as though they are "just businessmen" who are doing their job for themselves and their shareholders. The first part of that is true, doing it for themselves. The other is just a side effect. They would ignore shareholders if they could. That is why they raise prices of everything even without need, then blame it on supply chains, overhead, and having to pay workers more. The lies just drip from their mouths and corporate statements, but they get away with it because We the People have decided those guys and it is nearly always men are what so many people aspire to be, probably feeling their own addiction stirring. The ultra-rich think they would just love to rule over a nation of very poor, struggling people, but I doubt they would like it much when there is starvation, famine, disease that would eventually get them too. Addiction makes people unable to see the world as it is, noting only the fantasy they are living in. No one on earth ever needs a 200 foot yacht, but there it is, just waiting for the rare visits (I think it's Bezos) from its owner. What a waste, but addiction to money and power will do that to a whole lot of people. We don't need to salute them for it. We don't salute drug addicted people for their addiction and nor should we the money/power addicts.
You nailed it again, Ruth. Beware the rise of monarchy! Always, with money comes monarchy. Yes, same root word. Returning to monarchy is a regression. Calling it addiction is right up there.
Usually the billionaires give a tiny fraction of what they make to philanthropy. By most anyones standards it is a lot of money. By their standards its a rounding error. The amount of money they make off of their employees by underpayment or layoffs vastly outgains their philanthropy by a factor of 100 or a 1000:1. The pursuit of greater and greater wealth is then excused by the pursuit, albeit woefully inadequate pursuit of philanthropy that in no way threatens their power or the balance of power in general.
I think 1% of the population has 99% of the wealth.
I use this analogy.
100 people are in the desert dying of thirst.
A truck arrives with 100 bottles of water.
There's a billionaire among the 100 people; he claims 99 bottles and leaves with the truck, and the remaining 99 people share the 1 remaining bottle of water.
That is a good anology I will use it. In another part of the substack I broke down the inequality distribution. For every 450,000 US citizen there is 1 Billionaire, 30,000 Millionaires and 420,000 (93.5%) serving those 30,000 (6.5%) people (and the oligarch or feudal lord, 0.0002%). I am curious if the companies follow the same percentage of inequality, with the CEO replacing the billionaire and ? Management substituting for the millionaires. Though in many places management are paid near equally badly compared to the employees they manage.
I can't help to think that stealing someone's persona like this is illegal. Substack should contact law enforcement to get this person fitted with a orange jumpsuit!
Correct (I think)! A few months ago some hack using Reich's name was responding to people's comments here asking us to text him through a certain number (not always the same number as I recall). This is not the way Dr. Reich speaks, & he's highly unlikely to have us contact him by Telegram or to introduce us to a "life changing investment".
Bloomberg is Jewish. But more importantly the Republican effort to remove all social programs that benefit the middle class has been going on for a long time and has more to do w this libertarian streak and crazy fantasy of the rugged independent self dependent American. Since Reagan decided we didn’t need a middle class, the movement to extinguish all govt support continues.
Yes, there is a time in everyone’s life when there is a need for help. It can come when least expected. I look around my community and family and see that. Many folks can get creative and keep going others reach a point when nothing helps and need the food bank, shelter, something more. These people who recognize their troubles and are brave enough to ask are the hero’s. Asking for help isn’t easy. But this is what helps all of us. People living on the street and going without brings ALL of us down. Having enough is what we want. Not to be rich. Just be happy, know what’s true, trust our neighbors. This feels like it’s disappearing. I personally, an educated woman have very little trust in people. When I have a pleasant interchange when I leave home, it’s great but always a surprise and I look back and wonder. The big carousel we ride around takes us to crazy places. We need to stop this ride, wake up, realize important and live out our days considering ourselves and our future. And the 1 percenters need to lead the way. The pedestal they rest on is about to break.
The removal of social programs is, and has been, an effective means of dividing the majority. Woke individuals know that it was 'social programs' following the great depression and WWII, that created the, predominately white, 'middle class'. They know that these programs (similar to the expansion of medicaid) were distributed by the States, so few black Americans were able to access those programs. Redlining pigeonholed black Americans to the undesirable parts of town where property values are still the lowest. But following the Civil Rights Era, it became more difficult to discriminate against black Americans and thus, harder to keep them from 'social programs'. When black Americans began to access social programs, they refined the "southern strategy" so that it became about class. Most white Americans were now middle class and didn't need those programs so they went along with (and continue to support) republican efforts to end social programs that benefit those under 'middle class'. The byproduct of this strategy, and it's ability to have some "cutting off their noses to spite their own faces", has been that we are ALL suffering, as you summize. In this effort to keep the undeserving black Americans from accessing social programs, poor whites and the middle class also continue to suffer (see Heather McGee's book- "The Sum Of Us"). Reagan strategist, Lee Atwater explained this new "Southern Strategy"-
Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now you don't have to do that. All that you need to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues that he's campaigned on since 1964, and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.
Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?
Atwater: Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968, you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger". So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the back-burner."
Ironically, there were more white women's families on AFDC when Clinton allowed it to be demolished, than black or brown women's families. This is because there are more white women than black/brown in this country. So every whipping applied by cutting programs and funds hurts not just the minority, but also those we don't mean to hurt. ("Well, most of them are working class, anyway, and they don't matter either.") It was called, "AID to FAMILIES with DEPENDENT CHILDREN." Authored by Eleanor Roosevelt. White people were always the majority recipients. It allowed me to complete my education and qualify me for a job that paid enough to support my family. I was the poster child: white, in transition from marriage, two toddlers. Less than three years a recipient. For at least 85 percent of AFDC recipients, my situation was typical. It was a fine government program that lifted up my family.
True. And that’s why it to a lot to kill it. From there it went to WIC and SNAP. In many cases the media, GOP, and other anti-low income aid program folks place brown, Black, immigrants, and single mothers as the recipients of this aid. It became another thing for the Libertarians and Conservatives to hate. Labeled as ‘handouts’, they were always slated for the chopping block.
An 'inconvenient truth' for those that seek ultimate wealth & power, by dividing and conquering the majority. they prefer us to lack the knowledge that would reveal their game and the moves that would enable us to defeat them.
Also, ironically when Atwater was dying ( brain cancer, I think) he admitted that his political strategy was racist and was embarrassed or felt criminal in what he was able to do. He regretted the harm he did—but it took dying at a young age to get him to understand what is important.
fyiurban: Lee Atwater and his ilk, represent(ed) the millionaire, now bllionaire class, and use racism as a tool,to keep us all in bondage and to protect their wealth and power.What you say is correct, there is in fact racism, behind Reaganomics, but the root of it all, was identified by Bernie Sanders, and Warren Buffet, it is class warfare, and the billionaire class won.
Actually it is deeper than that, at root it is patriarchal ism . if you ask why 5% isn't enough, the answer is to own the world. And to own the world, involves a mad competitive scramble of the elites to get to the top of the manure pile, and to keep from sliding down. And the underlying motivation?
Agreed. culture wars are a way to divide. They simultaneously provide a scapegoat to distract us and hide the real culprits- corporate interests and billionaires.
This column is filled with misinformation. Please, Professor Reich, don't make false generalizations and make the situation worse by making statements that aren't backed up by facts. (1) Magill wasn't forced out of her job at Penn because of a comment made in a Congressional hearing. The situation at Penn has been going on since even before October 7. Penn is seriously in violation of the Department of Education's Title VI policies. The Palestine Writes conference at Penn hosted speakers who were not literary figures and who are known for blatant antisemitic statements. An Israeli student's contact information was outed and the student received death threats and has not gone out of his room for weeks. A student was punched. The Hillel House was vandalized. A location adjacent to a Jewish fraternity was defaced with antisemitic graffiti. At an anti-Israel protest, people shot smoke bombs at police. Anti-Israel protestors took over Houston Hall (the old student center building) and people with no relation to the campus are staying there. Jewish students are subjected to them chanting hostile slogans. The Daily Pennsylvanian student newspaper refused to publish pro-Israel columns and letter by students and alumni. People who write to the DP are journalism alumni or students who are not necessarily wealthy. Journalism alumni are definitely not wealthy. These are a few of the problems going on. Students reached out to lawyers, who have filed a Title VI civil rights case with the Department of Education. The Jewish students at Vermont won their case. The Penn students will win. In August 31, the Dept of Education issued detailed guidelines for the adjudication of complaints. In summary, if students cannot pursue their academic work and career goals without interference, then a violation of Title VI has occurred. Please study what has occurred at Penn for the past few months, listen to the videos made by Penn students, including their statements at the House Republicans' press conference. It is sad that the Republicans could take advantage of this issue. But please do not spread false information that Magill's ouster was because of remarks made at a Congressional hearing.
Let’s not forget to discuss the billions of dollars flooding American Universities from Qatar, Saudi Arabia and other authoritarian countries. This has had a direct impact on the proliferation of the BDS movement and other antisemitic activities on campuses. It is a fight for “hearts and minds” and we do have to fight back against that, and, while exerting financial pressure may not be the purest form of resistance, we must use the tools we have.
But it was because of that. While all the other things may have occurred, the end cause was her inability to satisfy donors and the rest of the admin. Did you read his final line. If not, you should.
Don't spread misinformation. A broad range of students, parents, alumni of all income levels and the Office of the Governor (hearing from parents and students) have been petitioning for months. Thousands of alumni have signed petitions and letters. I receive the alumni communications. I know what is going on. What direct experience do you have?
The Governor visited the Hillel House that was vandalized. Students have the right to gather at a house of worship without vandalism and an attack on their building. Penn was going to lose a big Title VI civil rights complaint case and lose a great deal of government money, so they took the steps to remedy the problem because then perhaps the Department of Education won't come down on them as much. The Trustees are responsible for keeping the students safe, and if the university president isn't succeeding at that, they need to hire someone else. You can't have a campus where people are throwing smoke bombs at the police and outsiders are staying 24/7 in the student union and students are getting death threats and building are vandalized.
I can't help but smell Arab oil money behind this tilt of universities to Islam.
Besieged with lies and obfuscations, which in Islam are called taqiyyah and per Mo, while lying to save your self is a sin, you are required to lie in the service of Islam.
That and the State Departments preferences for Arab oil, The Saudis own Exxon Refineries., has resulted in our universities being the safe nesting place for Muslims who are hostile to the west and Jews.
You can see them as hosts on TV or reporters, they (and Martin Griffiths of the UN) accept without question, every utterance, ever number that comes out HAMAS, but when the IDF posts something that is inimical of HAMAS, it is preceded or followed with a caveat - not verified, and no such caveat for HAMAS
Also, complaints came from the students and their parents and alumni, not just a few wealthy people. The governor visited the students at the hillel building that was vandalized.
That wouldn't have satisfied them. They were looking for blood.
One point never made is that you can be pro Zionism and still be an anti-semite which describes Stephanik and Trump. There are 2 reasons for that. One is the funding of APIAC and the insane belief that when Israel regains all the Holy Lands, it will kick off the Apocalypse and Jesus will come out of hiding and lead the righteous who just happen to be the evangelicals. Of course all the Jews will die then because they don't have the right beliefs.
William, I understand some of these End Times believers are actually attempting to convert Jews fighting on the front lines. Conversion of Jews is part of the End Times movement.
Nah, the new testament says nothing about the mythical lost tribes. I don't know where you heard that, but it is wrong, then again so is everything you hear from the pulpit or Xtian radio and TV
The TeNACH (OT) certainly don' say anything about it, and neither does the book of Jewish heresy (NT).
Not only that, the Restoration of Israel in 1948 ('47?) was very big in End Times thinking. A lot of the current narrative began as far back as the Civil War.
And one can be an antiZionist and still be ProIsrael,without being an antisemite, but not according to Jonarhan Greenblatt of the ADL, and many others.
The “Christians” have no time for Bible verses unless it suits them. You have stated this very well. Education is key to overcoming ignorance fear and hate. Looks like they afraid of that too. Thank you for your valuable facts and opinion.
Christians are experts with scissors and glue. There are 613 commandments in Leviticus and Deuteronmy, yet Christians cut and paste only 10, they disregard the inconvenient ones, like not wearing clothing of mixed fabric, not eating shell fish and pig.
And that is EXACTLY the warning that is stated in the Bible and in most any spiritual modality of any merit. . MONEY is not bad. It is THE LOVE OF MONEY that causes all the problems. Love what it can do for you and your loved ones well being, comfort, and enjoyment of life... but when the love becomes the focus of the money itself.... that is where the problems all start!!!! That is when the need happens to accumulate more and more and more. That is when money becomes an addiction and a sickness.
Catalyst to all sin/taking advantage. It allows you to place yourself above another, making them 'less than', which gives justification for taking advantage of them or treating them as 'less than" and unworthy of equal treatment.
True fyiurban, but let's go back 2,000 years to Jerusalem. When your neighbor was a tribesman, not a Samaritan, not a Greek or an Egyptian, certainly not a Roman
I like the Good Samaritan, who today would represent a democrat helping a republican, a black person helping a white person, a rich person helping a poor one, a straight person helping an LGBTQ person, an atheist helping a Christian, a Jew helping a Palestinian, a Russian helping a Ukrainian... a man loving his neighbor as himself... doing unto another, what he would have them do unto him...
Don't forget the tax cut sham that allows the rich to lend money to the government (with the guarantee that it will be paid back with interest) in lieu of paying taxes. And also don't forget that it will be our taxes (yours and mine) that pays the interest on the loans made by the rich to our over extended government.
Government debt is the greatest boondoggle the rich ever created. The greater the government debt, the more income they get and the greater the burden on the rest of us.
Tax cuts are nothing but a welfare program for the rich.
( love the reference to "Life of Riley." I use this expression a lot and of course no one younger than a boomer, "gets it!"). Neoliberalism aka Reagonamics, has destroyed this country, and created a inequality from wealth, ethinicity, religion, and even "truth" that we have this nonsense to deal with as one party/group is detroying democracy as we know it.
Yes! I just shared it on FB to my friends. . https://hartmannreport.com/p/can-america-wake-up-from-the-free-d5e?fbclid=IwAR3h_1v_jxWmBE-hQED_PuRCx_OpJR72xfDGfzKjKJ91rKMg4mejIg-fKJo also his book on neoliberalism. I never quite knew what it meant until I read his article. What I found more interesting is how he relates that this neoliberism, had created all this inequality that is driving what used to be ignorant non-political types to MAGA world, and even created these inequality-hype about poor Palestinians and getting college students to protest, and Congress to demand Ivy League schools to call "genocide of Jews" a specific condemnation, and how universities should set policty towards students. Universities are institutions of free speech, and while the Presidents didn't handle it well, they should of gotten up and walked out. . .they were brow beat by radicalization that is not reality.
It is because the congress critter, that their class have bought and paid for, have written exclusions, exemptions and credits into the tax code. And they live on OPM, they don't fork over their money to buy mansions, aircraft and luxury vehicles and yachts, they tax advantage of tax codes. Written by politicians that they have freely bought.
My small house that is only half paid for, 26-year-old truck I use for work, and 30-year-old car are taxed every year as wealth. They don’t generate any income for me. The money I make is also taxed, and I pay into SS and Medicare. I’m taxed out the wazoo.
Even a small percentage of tax on say, anyone with a billion dollars or more, could cover a huge part (maybe all) of the taxes you (and everyone else) pays.
Bret see my post above. The 16th Amendment defines income, exactly as you define wealth. Reimburse for labor was not defined as income, Congress and the Billionaires weaseled their way around it, but forcing you to file, prosecuting if you don't or evade, and creating exemptions, exclusions, and credits for the wealthy.
Wealth is that which makes us happy, a person who is not a necessitas man, as FDR said, and who has health, surrounded by family and/or friends who enjoy them is wealthy.
The upper class are just greedy hogs.
And alas the lower class, lower middle class, are like crabs in a pot.
I just want to cut in here because most of you are younger than I, and don't remember the pre-1980 tax scale. My recollection is that the very rich were paying taxes above 90 percent, yet after taxes, they were still rich. Most Americans realized that huge accumulation of wealth represented an unbalanced situation, because all that wealth had been created by low-paid workers, and in America, that seemed un-American. Look back to the time of FDR. Learn the history so you can see how much we've lost during the past 100 years.
And there is one thing that mystifies me. I am retired military, in or around 1963/1965. Although my income was meager, a little over $300 a month, I had to pay the alternative minimum tax
The 16th Amendment of 1913, created the income tax, and reimbursement for labor was not considered Income. The wealth of the upper class was because it was not wages for labor.
The IRS under the passage of tax laws, by congress, who are and always have been, bought by the wealthy, have modified taxes with exemptions, exclusions and credits not available to the middle class, and have worked around the legislation's definition of income, but requiring employers to deduct taxes, and then reporting them to the IRS, which then goes after the middle class for tax evasion, and seldom,, unless they pissed off the powers that be, the 10%
Like your lord and savior Trump, who paid no taxes in 4 out of 5 years, and only $750 the year he ran for president.
I agree 100%. Here's a question for Elise Stefanik. Yes or no - do you agree with former President Donald Trump's statement that Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Miley is guilty of treason and should be executed? Yes or No - is this targeted bullying or harassment? Yes or No - is this a credible threat from someone who would have the power to do it should he get elected? Yes or no, is Donald Trump's statement free speech, harassment, or bullying, or does it depend on the context? Finally, since Donald Trump is the de facto head of the Republican Party, (loosely analogous, if you will, to the head of a university), do you think the powers that be in the Republican Party and the wealthy donors to the Republican Party should remove him from this position??? I wish one of the university presidents could have turned the tables on Stefanik with these question.
Excellent retorts! It wouldn't hurt for journalists & congressional Democrats to be asking such questions to Stefanik & other Republicans in the coming weeks.
Stephanik is highly selective in her criticisms plus she is funded by AIPAC. This shows how selective she is:
Stefanik is also one of Congress’ most vocal supporters of Donald Trump, who has pursued the support of wildly antisemitic white supremacists for years and geared up for his current campaign by meeting with a right-wing media personality named Nick Fuentes who is well known for touting his admiration of Adolf Hitler.
The college Presidents were coached to be as vague as possible and Elise took advantage of those evasive wish washy answers. I really was ashamed of them. Women who held the reins at the most influential universities in the country showed that they were really not up to the job. Anti semitic comments or conduct - out ! Anti Palestinian actions or comments -out ! Free Speech does not condone evil thoughts or actions. And Alex Jones has been allowed back on X ? We really have lost our moral compass.
I appreciate your sentiments and in fact agree Don, but this is a case of apples and oranges.
I suspect that the College professors would all answer your questions in a manner in which you and I agree,
But this is a different issue. The intellectual elite, have been influenced by the lies and omissions of Arabs, or at least Muslim Arabs, it is called Tagiyyah in Arabic.
They are inclined towards what they perceive as the underdog, and have been convinced by Muslims that they are the underdogs.
There was no such sentiment, until Bush declared war on Iraq, that he could be re elected, unlike his father who failed, because he won his war in 100 days.
Arabs and Muslims were quick to declare it a war on Islam, and the dolts on the left, like University profs and Democracy Now not only bit into the pie, but swallowed the whole thing
It didn't help that evangelicals like Lt Gen McChrystal, declared the war in Afghanistan a holy war (a Jihad in Arabic)
I am not so easily swayed. And thus probably forfeit my progressive status, per the ideology of these feckless dolts.
I second your sentiment Phil, and have thought of how I could use that, but since there is no Christ how can anyone be an antichrist. Antichrists have existed since the cult of Rome was founded, even Popes have been called the antichrist, and of course their is Mssr Toothbrush.
The whole narrative is tremendously skewed. No powerful figures are condemning the actual genocide of the Palestinians by Israel happening right now. When will we get past the grotesque propaganda that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism?
When Jewish students are attacked on campuses for simply being Jewish and the University Administration lets this happen that is intolerable anti semitism.
Look, like I said, the whole narrative is tremendously skewed. First, anti-zionism is not anti-Semitism. And the confusion feeds anti-Semitism. Until we can get the narrative straight (Israel is an imperialist nation that has stolen the Palestinians' land, backed by the "Western powers") there is no hope of straightening out the situation.
When Jewish students are attacked on campuses for being Jewish and the University administration does not come to their defense that is anti semitism and it is intolerable and that is what is happening at these elite campuses who receive massive amounts of money from Middle East donors with of course no strings attached. This is not complicated at all.
The Palestine Arts/literary Festival (not sure of the exact name) that took place on the Penn campus in September (but was not coordinated nor funded by the school) occurred in September. Many weeks prior to the Hamas attack on Israel and not at all related. It seems that Magill was vilified for even “allowing” this to happen. Meanwhile, the right wingers clutch their pearls about supposed leftist attacks on free speech forgetting about their outright tolerance/support of Nazi speakers at Berkeley a few years ago. The hypocrisy is astounding. I wish these women had stood their ground and not resigned despite these arrogant, rich donor threats. That would have been a powerful statement. I am quite certain that men in their same positions wouldn’t have stepped down so readily.
I obtained a masters degree from a Private University, back in 1972, and even back then there was a cadre of doltish Marxists, that were bent on making trouble.
It has only gotten worse. Berkeley is a den of snobbish, self congratulatory, immature and childish hypocrites. The champion equal rights, the rights of women for autonomy, then boycott speakers who dare call the suffocating abaya, chador, niqab and burga bee keeper suits, because they are demeaning and oppressive to woman, but that is alright with these dolts, because these are Muslim countries, and "everybody" knows that Muslims are persecuted peoples, despite the fact that they are the 2nd largest religious cult in the world and rule the Midast, the gulf, Iran, Iraq, Turkey Afghanistan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia,, North Africa and many countries in Africa
Then again we have Christians who are the majority in America crying persecution.
Then again I have to blame those who turned persecution into a world wide public relations tool, to manipulate emotions and politics.
Success breeds imitation. Now every group is persecuted and persecution that is valid, has lost its punch. Like the boy who cried wolf.
Now antisemitism being recognized as a clarion call to genocide of the Jews, it is relegated to the same category as racism, misogyny, homophobia. Instead of evoking outrage, it evokes yawns, dismissal and so what isms.
To be explicitly clear: those "boycotted" speakers incite hate openly; they were only not allowed to speak because the tiny hateful minority that invited them couldn't afford the security budget that university policies (which apply to all speakers/hosts) require.
But it can Barbara. The 1st Amendment does not enfranchise "free speech" nor does it bane Hate Speech. It simply places the restriction on congress and says that it shall not back laws that prohibit speech or assembly.
It does not restrict corporations, media, the internet, people, students, the university.
However corporations, universities, states, counties and municipalities can, without violating the 1st Amendment.
But even the Federal Government, congress and thus with a vested interest, promote the myth of free speech, Including Whitehouse.gov.
Point is that a university and a student union can, and do, censor speech all of the time. Call an abaya or chador or niqab or burqa, an assault on women, and find out how fast the university and the student union circumscribe your right to "free speech"
Mike, Respectfully, the answer is not to block. Nothing will change if we don’t try and engage. Since October7th, I’ve followed my own advice on several Substacks, and, though the exchanges have been challenging and time-consuming, I’ve relished those moments when civility replaced adversity.
You are right on, Barbara Jo: "though the exchanges have been challenging and time-consuming, I’ve relished those moments when civility replaced adversity."
The problem, though, is that while some Trump-supporters can engage in civil discourse, they can't break out of their MAGA trance. Only a massive voter turnout can dislodge the Republican party, but I fear the Trump-trance will continue until the Orange-One leaves this mortal coil.
Abraham, First, I would note I agree that “massive voter turnout” is critical if we expect to win elections up and down the ballot. Second, I would clarify, as displayed in forums such as this, that, despite agreement on a host of issues, Democrats remain alarmingly polarized on matters pertaining to Israel-Palestine. Accordingly, the dialogue I deem most critical is the one among ourselves.
Yes, the fractures in the Democratic coalition are seriously worrying and likely to draw down turnout, or even flip some blues to red.
Hopefully the Israel-Palestine divide will smooth over by next Nov.
But Dems need a UNIFYING issue or message, and right now I think that could be abortion. The Texas case has people up in arms all over the country, but can that outrage be sustained til Nov.
Many elections are decided by single issue voters so if abortion is the issue, and if a similarly dramatic case arises in the Fall, then that might overshadow other issues and be the catalyst for a Blue Wave.
Repubs won the Presidency (and the Supreme Court) with massive Evangelical "pro-life" support; so this time Dems could do the same thing in reverse. It's all very cynical, but that's the reality of modern American politics.
Also, strange as it seems, mega-superstar Taylor Swift is very pro-choice and now actively encouraging his mass of followers (especially young women coming into voting age) to register and vote out Republicans across the board. Her effectiveness is shown by the juvenile, obscene and even violent attacks on her by podcasters like Charlie Kirk and his followers. Taylor now has the power, and young white males are scared to death of her.
Marshall McLuhan, a Canadian media guru from the 1960s, predicted that celebrities would dominate politics in the future. Well we're in the future and celebrities like Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and of course TV Trump all did it, so why not celebrity Taylor. And she doesn't even have to run for office; she has a mass audience and she just has to get them registered and to the polls. Maybe she'll do "voting concerts" where her followers can register at the concert and maybe get "I'm Voting With Taylor" bracelets.
Whatever it takes, Trumpism & MAGA must be defeated in Nov. 2024
In the Democrat Party, the divisions are between human rights and anti-semitism. We in this party get caught up in semantics which is neither good nor bad, just problematic. It’s true that Israel is another Imperialist nation who conquered the Arabs and stole land and property in 1943. As it has moved further to the right, Netanyahu’s ruling body has become more and more dictatorial. Did Bibi know of the potential attack and not take it seriously as a reason to bomb Gaza into oblivion? Who knows? But over the generations and especially now with college and HS age students, they see the years of David v. Goliath savagery waged against the Palestinian people. They see the deaths of 10 Israelis followed by the deaths of 100 Palestinians. They read about the razing of ‘illegal’ villages, only to e replaced by Jewish kibbutzes. They read about the lack of water to Gaza and the Palestinian people and ask, why are Israeli citizens so inhumane? This generation has read and studied about the Holocaust. This generation of liberal young people hate antisemitism and White Nationalism. They tend to despise anything that dehumanizes other people. But they also understand that a people that have such a history of being killed, tortured, and displaced should not be so willing to decimate another people as the Israeli government and their Western allies are doing in what they feel are open air prisons in Gaza and the West Bank. If the divisions within the Democratic Party addressed and corrected, we will have to come to some agreement on how to define what is going on in Gaza, and how the US, as an ally, can be both an ally to Israel and a true advocate of peace, Palestinian humanity, and a two state Gaza.
Seems our leaders aren't listening to us. No billions for RW Netanyahu. Israelis in the streets don't trust him to do war and keep them safe. He is a con. I don't ether want to pay for Gaza genocide or Hamas mercenaries hired by Netanyahu. Makes the whole thing a lie with our tax dollars used to kill many for a RW agenda for more land and power.
I'm really not sure what the younger generations know or think; they seem to be living in another world from me (I'm 77).
But anti-status-quo, anti-war, etc. usually starts with the young; and this time they are playing out that role with their current anti-Israel protests.
But they are probably as fractured as the rest of the country, and I wasn't really joking about a mega-celebrity like Taylor Swift motivating a huge contingent of new voters to register and vote.
If that helps to end MAGA and Trumpism, then America can start to find some common core of values and address the many problems facing us all.
So many problems, and so much polarization, but Job Number One is to end Trumpism. The Dems are far from perfect, but Trump will lead the country into authoritarianism (just to keep himself out of jail) and that must be stopped.
Only an insecure fool bloc ks someone. You can stick your fingers in your ear, but that doesn't shut them up. I want to hear what others are saying, that way I can counter them.
We blocked hate speech for years, but then comes along the Champion of Hate Speech, DJT, and now all of that hate speech that has been welling up in the breasts of the deplorables, is now out in the open and freely sanctioned by the likes of Musk. I am hearing crap on TV, repeated by Journalists, anchors and hosts, That I have never heard in my life until Trump opened the flood gates, and now we can see what has been simmering below the surface for over 200 years (yes that long).
If we had recognized that there was a fire that melted lead, we might have been able to stop it before it became hot enough to melt copper and tin. But because of political correctness and touchy feelings, the simmering fire is becoming a wild fire, a smelter that will consume us all.
I don't think there will ever be agreement on the narrative. We would have had that by now. Forget the narrative.That's a sinkhole long wallowed in as each weighs in with history and resentments and calls for justice. as they see it, as we have seen on this forum. As Einstein said, supposedly, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."
At best we get enough agreement on a way forward out of this terrible situation.
No, there is a clear right and wrong here. Israel was created as an imperialist project by the Western powers. Einstein was right; continued imperialism will not solve the problem.
Complete nonsense. You remind me of Noam Chomsky. When asked whether Iran is a terrorist nation, he replies: Isreal is a terrorist nation, and so is the United States. How's that for thougtful analysis? By that reasoning, we never should have entered WW 2 in either theater!
Eff Noam Chomsky, many a progressive will defend him and adore him, because in many ways his their intellectual guru, he has infected the minds of students and professors.
There is this la ti da, dream among those infected with the Chomskyite version of Marx, all the world will be set right, if only their version of Marxism prevailed. Notice "his version" like religion there are as many versions of socialism as their are "Marxists".
Trouble with Marx and those who deify him, is that Marx saw man as an economic creature. unable to grasp the fact that economics is only a tool by which to attain power.
A good book, if you can find it, as it is out of print, is the New Class, ny Milovan Djilas, it is an incisvie look into the Ruling class of Communist Yugoslavia. Commmunism did not do away with a class structure, it just supplanted one ruling class for another.
The Tidewater Aristocracy, the planters of Virginia and the Carolinas, only joined the revolution (most were descendants of Royalists who fled Cromwell), and they had visions of being the new royalty, but that failed because the people had no intention of replacing British nobles, dukes and barons, with homegrown ones. So they resorted to surveillance (Committees of Public Safety) and propaganda (pamphlets by thinkers like Thomas Paine) and were successful, but had unintended consequences. The people now educated by the Rights of Man, were not about to stand for a new nobility, and they threatened a second revolution, thus our constitution.
Bravo! If I could put you in charge of the History Department at Harvard (or any other major university) I would! What you said about Marx is spot on. I would add to your thoughts on Chomsky the following. He is an authority on language. He knows exactly what he is doing by circumventing questions and re-directing the conversation to suit his purposes. He is a self-described anarchist, which is the poison at the heart of his intellectual errors, for no anarchist can be anything other than a fascist. Thanks for your great comments and book recommendation.
I'll take your comparison as a great compliment. Is anyone talking about Iran here? We're talking about Israel and the US. Your "logic" is anything but logical. Spare me the nonsense.
Your logic is laughable. I used Iran as an example. Shall I define 'example' for you? (I also included Israel and the US in the example, or didn't you notice?) Once again, you have proved yourself to be as big a charlatan as Chomsky is.
It doesn't matter even if there is a clear right and wrong because people, not to mention nation states, will not agree on such matters and can not be made to agree. The best you can get is people recognizing cooperation can improve outcomes for most /all. That was my point.
If you study the history you will see that Israel has no intention of cooperating. Never has had. Butterfies and unicorns will not fix this. Only a willingness to face the problem squarely, to get honest for once, can move us forward.
Jenny you are whacked out. So deep into the conspiracy that HAMAS are paid agents of Yahoo.
First they are Muslims, and I have proven that genocide of the Jews is a sacred obligation.
I'm sure that you didn't read it, I even quoted sacred Islamic text.
I will assume good faith, that in your minds eye all troubles in the world are secular politics.
They aren't. Religion is an ideology, and it is a fundamental part of one's Id, their identity, except for atheists, then again there are secular Christians, Muslims, Jews, that practice rituals, traditions, holidays because they are part of the culture in which they were reared.
So what is your answer? Undo the state of Israel? I don't think this is possible. I do think that if Israel can destroy Hamas and other similar terrorist groups and help the people in Gaza recover economically and create a reasonable government (like what the US and the Allies did in Germany and Japan after WW2) maybe real peace might occur. I do have some doubts that the present government in Israel is capable of this. My two cents...
Did I say I had a solution? But as James Baldwin said, "Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced". Until we get honest about Israel as the imperialist project of the Western powers nothing can be done.
Where did you get this shit, Israel is an imperialist project by the Western powers. No wonder the universities are so screwed up.
The state of Israel started by Zionists, like Theodore Herzl, who bought up land from the Bedouins, made the desert bloom, cleaned up the garbage dump of the Arabs called Jerusalem (as Mark Twain described). The Arabs were shamed by the Jews, as that useless piece of desert lay fallow and empty except for Bedouins for thousands of years, and then in 1948, tried to take back by force what the Jews had paid for with money, they lost, but they kept coming back again and again, like morons, the insane in 1956, 1967, 1973, 2006 and Oct 7th. Driven and motivated by their religion to kill the Jews and drive them off what they consider is Arab land.
Bankers and British created Israel out of Arab lands. All Jews could have home and live in peace with the Arabs. They never asked the Arabs of course. They just did it. Isn't a success is it.
Wrong Judith. You are showing your antisemitism and gullibility.
European Jews, under the leadership of Theodore Herzl in the 1920's, bought land from Bedouins. Desert that had been useless and fallow for thousands of years. Mark Twain visited Jerusalem and found it a garbage dump
Herzl's Jews,took the land that they bought, turned into a garden, cleaned up Jerusalem, and the Arabs were both embarrassed and envious, and attacked Israel no sooner than it became a state, as consequence Israel, in self defense, took land as a buffer, as was it's right.
Einstein said that a sign of insantity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
So the insane Arabs came back in 1956,1967, 1973, 2006 and 2023, each time they lost, each time they also lost land. Israel occupied the Golan Heights, for self protection, it is high ground and it is from there that Syria has launched its aggressions.
The whole mess is of the Arabs own making, If they would have let the Jews have their own piece of land, their wouldn't be this problem.
But they can't because it conflicts with a sacred edict, to obliterate the Jews, haddith of al Bukhari.
It seems you have no knowledge of history prior to 1948. And your knowledge of history after 1948 ignores the fact that Israel is a secular democracy, not a fascist theocracy relying on terrorism as its sole form of foreign policy and subjugation as its core domestic policy. This is not to suggest that Israel hasn't made mistakes or that its present leader is sane or that Israel is secular enough.
Until Bibi decided to move further to the right and the Zionist Party gained more power. The Israeli people dot want that either. But Hamas did no one at favors, did they?
According to the RW in Israel and here....kill all of them. Let's not look into the facts just bomb, bomb, em off the earth. And who is doing genocide? Cut all funds, weapons and military to the area. No more killing in the Holy Land.
When did any of this land belong to Palestinians and, for that matter, when was the term "Palestinian" first coined? Where does history record a "Palestinian people"? There is none other than the Jews who were derided by the British as "bloody Palestinians". Today's Palestinians are Arabs with no distinct ethnicity.
Jews today are celebrating Chanukah which celebrates the re-dedication during the second century BC of the Second Temple in Jerusalem. Quite a history!
"The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.” – Interview with Zuheir Muhsin, a member of the PLO Executive Council, published in the March 31, 1977 edition of the Dutch Newspaper “Trouw”.
Now, could you please present some kind of legitimate proof that there is any such thing as “Palestinian soil”?
I agree with your comments but you accept those types of actions against Muslims. They are equally bad. Muslims are also being attacked, blacklisted, doxed and losing jobs.
They are.?Show me, I am from Missouri, if you mean Muslims who support Jihad and terrorism, or come up with excuses for the likes of HAMAS, then they have it coming, but outside of one deranged MAGAt who killed a kid, Show me some examples.
Muslims who support Jihad, HAMAS, Iran, Hezbollah are the enemies of a secular democracy and are a threat.
Not all of any group are haters is realistic. All Jews are not Arab, Muslim, hating. Terrorist groups exist as mercenaries and are paid today. Stop the bull crap and killing or millions of you are about to die. War and oil is a profit deal. Death for power and wealth. Got it. Not just Gaza, Palestines, etc are to die. You are all collateral damage for an agenda of the few. Stop it. You think RW Netanyahu and his generals give a crap about Israelis? They showed you on Oct 7th they didn't and you aren't safe.
We Americans were lied to and attacked on 911. Think our leaders cared? There was a stand down of our military too. RW Israel was happy to go to war in Iraq. We died and suffered for what in that 20yr war? Cost us and Iraq many billions and death.
You might not accept it but it's happening. in the wake of Hamas' Oct. 7 attack on Israel, and the Israeli military's assault on Gaza, many American Jews, Arabs and Muslims are living in fear as they face a wave of hate-fueled threats and violence.
The Justice Department is taking steps to protect — and reassure — those communities. Garland has directed U.S. attorneys and the FBI to work closely with state and local law enforcement to keep these communities safe, and to determine what additional support they need.
The dude has been infected with the lies and propaganda of the media he pays attention to, and is unbothered by history and facts, just like the MAGAts, he has his talking points and will stay with them. Otherwise he will have to admit that he has been a fool, and has let others do his thinking for him.
Chase asks: Are people thinking about the same thing when they use words like “fascism,” “liberty,” “capitalism,” “socialism,” and “freedom”? Or has our failure to agree on the meaning of these words allowed them to become weapons for politicians to further divide the nation in pursuit of their own political goals? Do these words "short-circuit thinking" and undermine communication?
The book was written in 1938 but totally applies to today.
In the history of the world, there has never been a recognized state of Palestine. Your support of a terrorist organization speaks volumes about your supposed non-antisemitism.
I think you may find that Palestine evolved from Philistia which was located
in the Gaza strip. But that is an assumption by some historians.
The Kingdoms of Israel and Judah were constantly fighting the Philistines from Philistia over millennia.
The Jews returned (drawn) to their land in 1948, and this was prophesied in the Old Testament (not the date). It was not stealing from the Palestinians; the Palestinians were squatters in Israels land.
Whoa Mike you speak out of ignorance (meaning a lack of knowledge)
Theodore Herzl, toured Europe for Jews willing to return to home base, Jerusalem, They BOUGHT land from the Bedouins. They then transformed a desert into an oasis, and cleaned up Jerusalem, which Mark Twain in the 19th Century called a garbage dump.
The Arabs looked up Israel with shame, embarrassment (they occupied the land for 2,000 years, and it lay fallow and desert all of that time, including using Jerusalem as a trash dump.
And in envy they launched a joint attack on the Jews, to drive them out and take the land that they worked so hard to make productive.
They lost and the Jews, rightfully claimed the land that their enemies launched on them, as theirs, if nothing else for protection against another attack.
Yet not having learned a lesson, like the insane which keep repeating mistakes over and again trying to find a solution, the attacked in 1956, 1967, 1973, 2006 and October 7th, and each time lost more land, which Israel needs to protect their borders.
The Arabs call 1948 the Nakba, catastrophe, but it is one that they brought on themselves.
It is the same as Gaza, Israel has a nest full of vipers next door, who are dedicated to wiping them off the face of the earth (genocide) and Israel has to defend itself, because HAMAS has bragged that they are a nation of martyrs, and will keep coming back time and again.;
When you see a funeral for a Jihadi a terrorist, and you see weeping and wailing, that is their mothers, other wise Muslims consider them martyrs and they celebrate martyrs, not moan and wail.
And proof that Muslim students are attacked. Any firebombing of their quarters, any smearing of epithets on the walls, any doxxing or physical threats of violence?
Don't know why your aren't aware of this. In Vermont 3 Muslim students were shot.
A truck — rented by Accuracy in Media, a longtime conservative activist group — shows the names and faces of students who are members of campus organizations that signed a letter holding the Israeli government "entirely responsible for all unfolding violence" following Hamas's attack in southern Israel on Oct. 7.
The signs label them "Harvard's leading anti-Sethe faces and names of Arab, Muslim and Palestinian students at Columbia have appeared on trucks circling the campus as part of a spate of doxxing incidents.
Doxxing is when personal details, sometimes including addresses or contact information, is shared publicly.mites."
This at Columbia: the faces and names of Arab, Muslim and Palestinian students at Columbia have appeared on trucks circling the campus as part of a spate of doxxing incidents.
The Maryland Council on American-Islamic Relations is taking action to help protect Muslim, Arab and Palestinian Americans.
The action comes after the organization has seen a surge in reports of violence and hate
crimes since the Israel-Hamas war began, including the recent shooting in Burlington, Vermont, that left three Palestinian students injured. The assault is now being investigated as a possible hate crime.
Despite American academia’s reputation as strongholds of social justice consciousness, Muslim students on campus are frustrated by the acceptance of Islamophobia from school administrations and fellow students. Experiences like Omar’s are compounded by constant slights such as the lack of spaces to pray, a deficit of chaplains as well as meal and exam schedules that don’t accommodate Muslims’ religious needs.
As authorities announced they had opened a hate-crime investigation into a report of a hit-and-run that injured an Arab Muslim student at Stanford University, the student called on people on Sunday to “collectively denounce hatred, bigotry, and violence” amid rising reports of hate crimes against Arabs, Jews and Muslims in the United States.
A black SUV hit Stanford student Abdulwahab Omira on the Palo Alto, Calif., campus before 2 p.m. Friday, according to university officials. The driver of a Toyota 4Runner was reported to have made eye contact with the victim, accelerated toward him and struck him, then shouted “f--- you and your people” while driving off, according to a news advisory from Stanford’s public safety department. Omira described the driver as a White man in his mid-20s, university officials said.
You are correct Daniel and as you know I believe that Israel has not only a right to exist, that , previous to Yahoo and the emergence to power of the Orthodox Right wing parties, like the Unity party, Israel was actually a democracy that put America to shame, And Israel has a right to defend itself, but when it comes to the orthodox, right wing and their settlers, if Zionism includes them, then count me out.
I've expended a lot of my historical knowledge and my knowledge of Islam, to defend Israel, but I find the modern Zionists of the religious right in Israel, unbearable and even bear the responsibility for Oct 7th.
Bibi knew this was coming, the leaked Israeli intelligence report says so, he had to know, but like Bush who also knew 9/11 was in the works, and by my reckoning knew the date, that is why he was safe in Florida readin My Pet Goat. What he and Bibi didn't know was the full extent of the terrorism. Bush didn't know that it included the WTT's and Bibi didn' now it meant the massacre of festival goers and the kidnapping of Israelis, if he did then he should be shot
Bull shit. Read the HAMAS charter, it is a blue print for genocide of the Jews, hell read Islamic scripture, like the haddith of al Bukhari, which is copied word for word from al Buhari. Sahih 1395 and 1296, book 56 haddith 139, al Bukhari, both HAMAS and Islamic scripture calls for the genocide of the Jews. There is nothing in Zionism or Israel, much less the TeNACH (OT) that calls for the genocide of Arabs.
So William.; You are quoting HAMAS with those figures, But of course you believe the lies of HAMAS.
I guess murdering Jewish children would be more palatable to you and yours
Wait they already brutally murdered and burned alive, Jewish children on Oct 7th,but by your lights that is only justice isn't it? Jewish lives weighed against Arab lies? Jews don't have a chance in the mentality of dolts.
I'm quoting what news agencies are telling us. Have you seen the videos of the destruction in Gaza? Over 60% of the buildings have been destroyed or damaged. You seem to believe what you want to believe.
They call it mowing the grass or thinning the population but it's not bull. Read some of the comments from Netanyahu and this right wing government. They aren't hiding their feelings. I'm anti Zionism but not anti semitic. You are allowing yourself to be blinded when it comes to Israel.
Oh but your championing the Jew hatred of Islam, you are indeed antisemitic.
You see I am, according to the ADL, an antisemite, because I am anti Zionist, but not anti Israel., and I know that Muslims lie in the defense of Islam, and lying in defense of Islam is a sacred requirement, the punishment of failure it to burn in hell, with your flesh ripped off every morning. You see I am an Islamic Scholar, albeit an infidel, but I know so much, that by their lights I am murtadd, an apostate.
My antiZionism is restricted to Bibe and other orthodox right wing, especially the settlers who harass and murder Arabs, to drive them off their land, so they can build Kibbutz. That I do not sanction, what I do sanction is the pre Bbib Israel, a secular democracy, which you will never ever find in a Muslim nation, what you find in a Muslim nation is suppression and submission of women, and the death of atheist, polytheists and gays.
Iran is more "civilized" it claims there are no gays in Iran, that is because if got, they are forcibly subjected to surgery, sexual reassignment surgery. A solution I am sure that the Christians would like to perform on gays, maybe not though, they are seriously trans phobic, and believe that the transgendered wear dresses to expose themselves in women;s restrooms, Ignorant m effers think that women's rest rooms have urinals.
The war against HAMAS in no way fits the definition of Genocide by the UN charter on genocide, but the intentions of Muslims and HAMAS does
Israel is waging a war of self defense against an enemy which wished to obliterate them
that and Free Palestine from the River to the Sea is a call to Genocide
From the Preamble to the HAMAS charter:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
From Article 7 of the same , which is a copy and paste of a sacred Islamic text, the haddith of al Buhari (sahih 1295 and 1296, book 56,haddith 139 al Bukhari
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
That my friend is a call to genocide, pure genocidal intentions, Israel is only trying to protect istself from real genocide, the Jews have already been through one, actually more than one, the pogroms, the evictions of Edward I, and Ferdinant and Isabella of Spain.
The Arabs want nothing less than for the MidEast to be Judien Frei, and that my friend is genocide.
Anti-Zionism (working for a homeland for Jews) is exactly anti-semitism! As for "genocide", that was attempted when Hamas attacked Israel, an attempt to destroy Israel and do the work of its Charter, the death of every Jew world-wide. It said it would repeat this again and again until it accomplished that goal. It was the most destructive pogrom since the Holocaust. Israel did not seek "genocide" as if that was its goal, it would have exterminated every Palestinian Arab in Israel, about 2-million in an action that would be similar to that Hitler took in Germany to eliminate the Jews. Israel's response to destroy Hamas is an action of self defense. Hamas hiding behind its civilians, using them as human shields makes for greater civilian deaths but is a war crime on the part of Hamas. Did you show any concern over the hundred of thousands dead in Syria, or the dead in Yemen and Darfur? Of course not! Arab on Arab killing is fine regardless of the slaughter. Arabs killed by Jews in a war of defense will make your head explode though.
Easy Wendy. I have been defending Israel here and on Thom Harmann and Quora.
There are degrees of anti ZIonism and my anti Zionism is not at all an attempt to destroy Israel, although I recognize that most anti Zionism is.
Mine is restricted to Bibi, the Likkud, the the religious right in Israel, that harass and murder Arabs, with IDF looking on, to drive them out of their homes, so they can build Kibbutz.
I get a lot of shit for defending Israels right to exist and defend themselves and admire their citizens and culture for turning a wasted piece of desert into a prosperous nation.
Not all antizionists are anti semities there are a few of us, who have historical knowledge, not bullshit propaganda, and have the capacity for critical reasoning skills.
If I had two choices and two only, one was to live in a secular democracy as Israel is, at least for the time being, and in an Islamic country, I would take Israel,for I would last barely a day in an Islamic country.
And I do not buy Arab propaganda, and neither should anyway, the em effers basically own Exxon Mobil, for whom Trump wants to drill drill drill., and upon whom the Arabs have showered billions.
Apparently a long response of mine didn’t go through so this will be shorter. I fully agree with much of your post and especially on Bibi, the Likkud, and religious right. Leaders of the Mossad and military will likely resign after the war is over, accepting responsibility for the dreadful lack of preparedness and response on October 7th. Unlike them, Bibi will have to be forced out. He still has not accepted any responsibility even though the major responsibility is his. I hope to see him jailed.
I agree. Bibi is a war criminal and a traitor to his people, Israeli intelligence and thus Bibi, have known about this operation for years, but ignored it because Bibi has his own motives.
America is trapped in a dilemma,For one we can't abandon an ally to genocide, and that is what the Arabs have in store. They tried in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1972, 2006 and now in 2023.
HAMAS misjudged Israel, because of their success with Gilad Shalit, they thought that taking hundreds of hostages would give them the upper hand and a chance to wipe the Jews off the face of the Mideast
However Yahoo is to Israel as Trump is to America..
As a retired teacher, I can understand the importance of allowing young people to give voice to their ideas and philosophies. What I cannot accept is that these so-called higher institutions for learning depend so much on donors and pander to their every whim. If a university or college is not allowed to run their school without donors telling them what to do, those same universities and colleges begin to cave to these donors. Should these presidents condemn genocide of anyone? Yes, of course they should! Should the major donors have reacted so brashly? No, they should have voiced their disagreement and then allowed the presidents to do their jobs. The students at these universities and colleges are doing what they have a need to do. Give voice to their ideas, philosophies and opinions. It is up to the professors and staff to help guide these students, to teach them about the history of the Jewish people, Hamas, Palestine, the Middle East, the Holocaust, the World Wars and the cultures of all different groups of people. If students are screaming for genocide, those students need to be addressed. They need to understand what hate speech is and how far society can go before that type of speech is considered dangerous. I have always believed students need to express themselves, but I also feel it is teachers and parents that should question and guide students to understand the world around them.
The problem Peggy is that it is the very professors for whom you advocate that are brainwashing, yes brain washing the students. I have Masters and most of it was pure ideological bull, or corporate propaganda. The purpose of which was to produce a conditioned product who sought the masters approval. I graduated with Highest Honors, and with Honors for my Masters. And the only thing I value was my statistics teacher who had us read How to Lie with statistics.
I will always be grateful for the opportunity to study three foreign languages and their literature in HS. It taught me to be tolerant of other cultures; that we all bring something to the table.
You assume students who are of age 18 and more can't think for themselves when confronted with another person's like a teacher's opinion? Students are smart or they wouldn't be there. I did. I had a professor who wanted no females in science. I stayed in his class regardless.
Apples and oranges Judith. Sure there are legions of students who can think for themselves,
But when looking at the mess on campus today, when anti semites fall under the sway of so called leftist professors and Arab propagandists then, not so much anymore..
When Berkeley students threaten the university to cancel a speaker because he dare tell the truth about Islam, and calls the Abaya, Chador, Niqab, Burga bee keeper suits. It is apparent that they have gone off the rails.
The Motto in universities seems to be now, Free Speech for me, but not for thee.
Judith please don't personalize the impersonal, Which is what you did by injecting your self into the conversation.
This is America and students are over 18 yrs old. If they vote and go to war they are treated like you with an adult brain. It is rather arrogant to believe only "older you" have the right answers. Only you are right about their "bad" actions. How do you know what is going on at all universities? They don't want to use their tuition money to pay for certain speakers they have a right to protest.
Their speech is being silenced on Israeli Hamas War events. They are not anti-semitic protesting genocide and oppression of any people. I would have protested in Dayton, Ohio Clinton peace talks when Madeline Albright asked the students to go to war in Iraq for Israel. They yelled NO. Dying on foreign soil for another country...I think not.
Of course 911 happened and she got her wish. Strange eh? Now it is happening again with Iran, Gaza, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria....everyone (Muslims and Hamas) are out to kill them.
They should be RW Netanyahu...ya go kill em all? When they grow up they will kill us all bull. Kill all those mothers and children. Everyone even American students want us dead! That is good? I think the students are better than that.
Judith it is not arrogance but biology. The male brain is not fully developed until in their 20's.
Young folk, and I was young once, act on impulse and emotions, more so than arrogant old folk like me
I see red when I see people misuse and do violence to the word genocide. The constant misuse renders the world meaningless, like the boy who cried wolf.
The only genocide in the Mideast, is that of the intention of Muslims.
Preamble to HAMAS covenant. Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
And the slogan "Free Palestine from the River to the Sea", that is a distinct call to genocide
And how about this one from sacred Islamic Text AND article 7 of the HAMAS covenant
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). That is a word by word quote from sacred Islam text, the hadith of al Bukhari, sahih 1295 and 1296, book 56, hadith 139 al Bukhari
I am as disgusted with the self indulgent, self righteous ignorant professors and students as I am with the Zionists and right wing religious right settlers.
Now tell me again about Genocide? Or is your mind closed.
BS. I've read some of those studies about brain development. No real numbers or graphs just general opinions. One just had photos of all the workers doing research at the university. No real results. I worked in NY State and NIH research and publications had to have facts not general thoughts to publish papers. They did social research on drugs and alcohol along with biochemical papers. Statistics and probability results.
GOP oligarchy seem to be anti young wanting to mind control even the heads of the university and professors.
They are very anti knowledge and science. Fascists do that. It is propaganda.
You feel they are beyond you? Maybe they should study how some people even at advanced age act like children educated or not. Spoiled brats. Others wise. Professors and students seeking knowledge and conflict discussion is a good thing. Violence is not. They write papers and inform the rest of our society.
Successful societies had great libraries and learned persons to help them. Ignorance is not a good thing for the world. The burning of the advanced libraries of Egypt was a great loss to the world. The Roman Empire put the world back 400 yrs destroying knowledge, culture and others religions. The barbarians hungry and desperate came over the mountains and burned Rome to the ground.
You know what genocide is when it happens to your people. Not when it happens to your "perceived enemies". I am on the side of peace and justice for all. The Israeli people in the streets protesting Rwers are who I agree with.
Then William, that is when it becomes necessary to weed out those professors who do not put the students and learning before their donor's wishes. If in a university, students are being brainwashed, then it stops being a university and becomes a sold-out propaganda machine. Our students go to university first to seek knowledge, but also to examine different ideologies, debate opinions, and discover their path in life. It concerns me to hear that these students are being brainwashed! What is the propaganda they are being fed?
Teachers who allow themselves to be manipulated or coerced or ‘directed’ to teach a certain topic a certain way, have no business teaching. Therein lies the problem. Everyone is bought and paid for in order to control the narrative. Peggy is absolutely correct. It’s not brainwashing unless it doesn’t agree with “my” narrative. Wow.
Sometimes it’s a matter of survival. If they don’t follow the dictates of the donors or state government, they’re out of a job. Think of the many classes that explore multiculturalism and DE&I which can no longer be taught in places like TX and FL.
My son is a tenured professor, and has been teaching for over 20 years, he loves it, but he teaches what he learned, in other words how he was nurtured, and that has lead his line of inquiry
As did I in my 37 years. But I also learned, changed, adapted and would share with my students this evolution. That’s what I always loved about education...the evolution of thought when new facts arrived through dialogue or debate.
Ask Bill Maher, with whom I have many, many issues, what happened to his speaking engagement at Berkeley, because he referred to the abaya, the chador, the niqab and Burqa as bee keeper suits, sure pissed off the Saudi's and Emirates who are huge donors to chosen universities, who in return fill students heads with pro Arab and anti Jew propaganda.
I agree 100%. We’re already seeing the influence of billionaires on law schools: Koch Brothers at James Madison, and other conservative billionaires on trying to influence religion and curriculums at at prestigious universities.
It’s a slippery slope when billionaires start packing the boards and senior level staff of universities, not unlike what DeSatan is doing in Florida. Suddenly, education becomes political which in itself is a bigger problem than we are experiencing today.
Suddenly, universities aren’t a place where all perspectives and ideas are debated and discussed. And history and sciences are taught based on imperial data and facts. They become indoctrination centers by the same people who have been manipulating and shaping government policy for their own purposes for decades.
What is happening at universities is horrendous when students call for genocide, but several things come to mind.
1. How do you regulate free speech without creating even more issues? it’s only a short distance between speech laws and bad government actors using these laws for nefarious purposes and to stifle legitimate speech.
2. Harvard has an undergraduate student body of 7,200. I saw no more than a few hundred protesting. And there wasn’t any violence, as opposed to the MAGA mob that stormed the Capitol on J6th. Or the white nationalists marching in Charlottesville in 2017.
3. Are we to assume that the campus is the only place where college students discuss and disseminate information and ideas? As though the internet, social media and other places including places of worship aren’t indoctrinating the students in hate or misinforming them with false assumptions and lies.
Once again, we have a spectacle of overreacting and overreaching by the wealthiest among us; the media, and other special interest groups who never miss an opportunity to create more chaos where none exists. And if past experience is any indication of future outcomes and results, then let’s just say, this won’t end well for anyone; especially the students, free speech and higher education.
That is exactly right. A country where the mega wealthy no longer hide in the shadows when demanding politicians their will be done starts looking like Russia. Remember Trump’s sympathy for Putin. We should be up in arms given the decline in democracy in this country.
I said this for years. We are an oligarchy. We just refuse to say it. SCOTUS and Citizens United proved this point. It’s no longer ‘dark’ money. We all know from where it originates and where it goes.
The mechanism which should be noted - and which had not previously been a factor in stories about angry donors - is the threat of *rescinding* donations that had already been pledged ($100M at UPenn, which is a small - but significant - portion of their $21B+? endowment); typically a donation is refused in the opposite fashion, e.g. Sackler money being returned...
Very few college students go to church or synagogue, though I suspect that Muslims go to masjid, and pray in rugs in dorms. Muslims cling to their religion even more than Jews and Christians, with Jews it is mostly tradition (like the song in Fiddler on the Roof)
Secular Muslims are few and far between, for they know very well the penalty for apostasy, which is death. There were incidents in the US, one I recall in Arizona, where an apostate Muslim was murdered by an assassin sent from Pakistan or Bangladesh.
Lost in all of this is the question - who is calling for genocide of Jews? Any call for genocide of any group of people is abhorrent. And I am not aware of a single call for genocide of Jews on any university campus in the US. But a *real life genocide is actually occurring* in Gaza. Does anyone care for those children? They are being blown to bits while the lawmakers here are arguing over something that’s not even a reality.
In the past few days, when commenting on the photo of a large group of Palestinian men stripped of their clothes, the Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem, Arieh King, said this: "They are not human beings and not human animals; they are subhuman and that is how they should be treated...bury them alive."
I find it interesting that more than one official in the right-wing government of Israel has, prior to October 7, referred to Hamas as an "asset."
In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah."
Zionism is anti-Judaism. I encourage fellow Americans to try to understand this. Make no mistake, the leaders of the current Israel vastly prefer Trump over any Democrat. This is why they are so tight with the right-wing Christian Zionists here.
Mass killing as it is happening in Gaza today is anti-Judaism. I will add my voice to those who want to speak for and defend genuine Judaism, the Torah, the Prophets.
"Jewish religious leader reveals how he feels about Israeli aggression in Gaza" Link:
Thomas, the Jews of all nations who endorse Trump and Bibi are religious fanatics. They supported Trump because the religious Christian right (the ones who will celebrate the final destruction of the Jews come the Rapture) supports both Israel (for the time being) and Trump; and because they erroneously believe that Trump and his band of fascists would protect them. The majority of Israelis and Americans are not religious, much less religious fanatics. Both nations are secular democracies, and struggling desperately to keep it that way.
After the Terrorists from Gaza, slaughtered, up front and personal, 1,200, burned babies alive, raped women and you object them being called Animals Thomas?
And yes I too blame Bibi, for this. I also suspect that he too knew it was coming, but not the details. The man is a self aggrandizing traitor, a clone of Trump.
Please go back and read / understand the context. The Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem was referring to a photo of Palestinian men of Gaza stripped of their clothes. None of these men can be proven to have attacked on October 7, or if they were even Hamas. For the Deputy Mayor -- a public official -- to declare them "subhuman" reflects on something horrible in his person.
Thanks for exposing yourself TWICE in the same thread. When you have no truth to stand on, baseless insults are your only “defense.” True Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship the same Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. Zionists worship nothing but power.
Dr Who, the Muslims do not worship the same god as you. Allah is a contraction of al Lihah, the moon god, which Arabs worshiped in the jalihiliah (the time before Muhammad). They believe that Mary (Miriam) was impregnated by the angel Gabriel, who appeared before her as a very attractive and shiny man (hence seduction)
I do wish people would spare us of their proselytizing, There is no creator of the sky (heavens) and earth. they all evolved, slowly, over billions of years
And Zionists don't worship nothing but power, that is pure truth hatred, the crap that was printed by the Tsars secret police as Protocols of Learned Elders of Zion.
Is this what happens to minds of people, exposed to public education.
Your stuff comes straight from Aryan Nations and it's ilk.
40 years ago or more, I corresponded with some stupid dolt, who murdered a Jewish professor by shooting him in the back of the head. I wanted to know what went on the mind of these idiots.
It was the same bullshit that you spout, that Zionists only want power.
Israeli "genocide" is an antisemitic tell. Some Palestinians are Hamas, Islamic Jihad and are war criminals. More than 2,000,000 Israeli Arabs, were attacked on October 7 and are "Palestinians" and stand with Israel. Some are Christians and others.
Let me further "expose" myself and answer your questions with another question: "What do decades of BRUTAL occupation do to the minds of the occupiers?"
Thomas, you seem not to remember that Israel is a tiny country and the number of Jews anywhere at any time is miniscule compared to the number of non-Jews, especially the sects dedicated to the murder of all Jews. The multi-nation sponsored creation of Israel was not an occupation. The violence that ensued was a result of terrorist activity designed to force the Jews to leave Israel. This continues to this day. Ask yourself what the terrorists will do with the land once the Jews leave. They have only one thing to offer: another Iran, or Syria, and so on. You would not want to live there.
I am well aware that the land size of the current Israel is about the same as the state of Massachusetts. Israel is one of the top 10 arms sellers in the world and has supplied weapons and know-how to many genocidal regimes such as Pinochet's Chile, Guatemala's (Mayan genocide), Rwanda, Sri Lanka and others.
This continues to this day.
I am extremely careful in my use of the word "Jew." It is a person -- regardless of race or ethnic background -- who accepts and practices the Torah, and it shows to the world in the way that they live. As a non-Jew, I have to concern myself with the seven Noahide laws -- and this I try to do with the help of HaShem.
In July 1947, Rabbi Yosef Tzvi Dushinsky, Chief Rabbi of the Jerusalem-based Edah HaChareidis, declared to the United Nations his "definite opposition to a Jewish state in any part of Palestine". (Torah observant Jews had been living in what is Palestine for centuries. There were Jewish communities all over the Muslim world.)
Chomsky couldn't have said it better. You share his logic: Israel sells arms to genocidal regimes. Israel is a genocidal regime. Obfuscation, circumvention, evasion, immoral equivalence, lies. There is no inclusive definition of the word "Jew". That's why anyone can fit the description for the purposes of scapegoating, depending on who does the scapegoating. It mattered not to the Third Reich whether a "Jew" was an atheist or a Christian convert. You might also check the Protocols of the Most Learned Elders of Zion for additonal information. Whatever you do, it is not dependent on "HaShem" (another of your mis-defined concepts dating back to antiquity and continuing to this day). Yes, we all know about the religious Jews who objected to the founding of the modern state of Israel (and now seek to replace its democracy with theocracy). Such zealots are on the same level as Evangelicals who can't wait for the Rapture so that the "Jews" will be destroyed for good. Keep playing Chomsky if you like. It doesn't work with me.
Allow me point out your biggest misconception: "and now seek to replace its democracy with theocracy." Nothing could be farther from the truth, at least not for the True Torah adherents from the Satmar community. They want nothing to do with nationalism and government, and would be very happy with an Israel run by secular Palestinians.
I am very aware of orthodox religious zealots who have no problem with the idolatry known as nationalist Zionism.
There's a great podcast done by Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro -- "Committing High Reason." As you say, "It mattered not to the Third Reich whether a "Jew" was an atheist or a Christian convert. " And Zionist Israel, as Rabbi Shapiro points out, uses the same definition of a Jew as the Third Reich's.
You were not exposing yourself, but your question was based on assumptions.
Israel are not occupiers of their own land. Are you an occupier, by your logic you are, and a brutal occupier at that. Just ask the real Americans, the ones who live on reservations, just ask the American Descendants of Slaves (ADOS) they are not here of their own volition, They are here because their ancestors were considered draft animals.
Clearly now, it appears so does the IOF. We have heard the Israeli Govt, Second Nakba, raze Gaza to rubble, human animals, etc. The IOF are armed to the teeth by the Western world. It is also ignorant to bypass the fact that it was Bibi Netanyahu who allowed money to flow into that region. He wanted a Hamas, to counter the PA and Fatah, so there would be no stable Palestinian Agency to be able to come to the table for establishing two States.
Like the first Nakba, the Arabs have brought this upon themselves.
This old man knows history, not the bullshit ginned up in universities.
The Jews bought land from the Bedouins, made the desert bloom, cleaned up the garbage dump the Arabs left of Jerusalem, and the Arabs were shamed and envious and tried to genocide the Jews in 1948, they lost, but like idiots kept coming back in 1956, 9167, 1973, 2006 and Oct 7, only to get their asses handed to them and lose more territory (which Israel rightfully claimed for self defense, like the Golan Heights, they would have been remiss and guilty of misfeasance had they not.
Arabs can't learn becaus of their religion, their sacred text calls for the genocide of Jews
You must go back much further than 1943 to see the real history of this region including Jerusalem and Judah when it was Jew v. Jew until the Assyrians came in and blew it all apart and aided Judah. If we only go back to 1943, the Arabs/ Palestinians have plenty of reason to hate the Israeli Government and Jews writ large. Prior to the birth of Jesus, the Jews were persecuted for generations by the Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, etc.
I appreciated the opinion column & worry about the war's endpoint & aftermath. So complicated, so many lives destroyed. So much dissension, even in this progressive-leaning forum.
Why is the killing of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians by the IDF not considered genocide? Because Hamas struck first and committed atrocities to the Jewish people? That’s where I get stuck. 1200 barbaric deaths by a group hellbent on the decimation of the Jewish people deserves a retaliatory attack that results in the decimation of 1000 Hamas terrorists, responsible for the original attacks plus another 18,000+ innocents in Gaza. So, Israel should not be criticized and if you do criticize then you are antisemitic? 🤷🏽♂️
The "killing of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians by the IDF" is if true, collateral damage to something that Hamas, and for that matter the PA, Qatar, Saudis etc can stop whenever they want, Maybe you are complicit if you don't see that there are hostages and that Hamas kills Palestinians too and refuse to negotiate. .
Hamas is a known terrorist group. But is Netanyahu’s plan to bomb to oblivion all of Gaza, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children, all in order to kill every member of Hamas, not genocide? All in the name of ‘protecting Israelis’. I’d that
Is the answer, then there were never truer words than spoken by Ghandhi, “practicing an eye for an eye will do nothing then to leave us both blind.” Indiscriminate bombing of innocent Gazans will create another generation of young people with hatred for Jews and the Israeli government. This when young people were making advances. The true evil here, as usual, is the extremists in both countries. And to answer your question, am I complicit? Yes. As long as I stay silent about what Israel, the US, and other allies are doing that further creates humanitarian crises for women and children without any end game or ‘day after’ strategy. Netanyahu will be seen as a war criminal if this continues and innocents continue to die.
An opinion by a Zionist. Go figure. The “but Hamas...” argument (if it can even be called that) is getting tired and old. Those who have “genocide in their hearts” are the ones actually committing the genocide. People are waking up to Israel’s lies and deception with every child they see murdered. Those who kill women and children are nothing but COWARDS. When the truth is spoken, all people like you can do is hurl insults. It is still not too late for Zionists to start seeing all humans as equals. But it will likely be soon.
This is by a former Israeli negotiator, Daniel Levy:
Dr who I am not a Zionist but I echo Daniel, plus some. I was raised white Christian, and am now an atheist and a progressive, a least as regards the culture war, and destroying the rule of the elite.
However I blame HAMAS for raining hell down on it's people, the citizens of Gaza and the west Bank are disposable tools to wage in their war against the Jews, and who is funding and mentoring them, but Iran, who has a long standing official war aagainst the Jews.
I’m sorry you have eaten up all the lies you’ve been fed. I’m sorry you’re so gullible. And I’m sorry you likely won’t listen to rational opinions by fellow white Christian Americans who do not hold your views.
Who told you that? I’ll tell you who - the Zionists. And I’ll tell you why - they’re projecting their own meaning of that slogan on to others. ZIONISTS WANT ALL OF THE LAND FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA AND *THEY WANT IT BY WAY OF GENOCIDE*. So when they hear the Palestinians say it, they’re listening to their inner voices. So it scares them because obviously they don’t want the fate they have planned for Palestinians. The only thing Palestinians want is what all human beings want - to live in peace and freedom with neighbors who let them live in peace. End the occupation, and give them equal rights. If you were them, you’d want the same. On this genocidal path it has chosen, Israel’s days are numbered.
I fully agree. The Presidents should have outright stated that calling for genocide should be rejected. They were also correct that any decision to expel students (or suspend faculty) for saying such nonsense should be nuanced and situational. Hamas was vile and evil in attacking the innocent and murdering children and deserve punishment. The Israeli government, and the IDF are vile and evil in bombing Gaza indiscriminately and killing children and innocent adults. You can and should be able to say both without a but. War is always the wrong choice and it is always avoidable if there are ethical and rational people on both sides. History is often made by those who lack ethics and rationality. We don't celebrate the ethical and rational very much because their success is historically quiet. Why do we remember failure more than we remember success? Sadly, another old adage is completely true in this context; follow the money. You did and look what it told you. Perhaps taxing the rich and letting government fund the schools is a better path, though all pathways require ethics and wisdom, and we humans are bound to fail on a regular basis. Let us hope that these failures don't reach a critical mass and lead to broader war.
Thanks for the extended discussion. It's hard to articulate the correct response under these circumstances. Genocide is flat-out wrong, but both the Israelis and the Palestinians feel they're being targeted for genocide by some factions of the opposition. The majority of people on each side don't want to exterminate the other. They both want to live in freedom from oppression. It looks like the problem is the extremist leadership currently in place on each side. Partisans with big bags of money should try to promote thoughtful dialog, not ram their opinions down other peoples' throats.
Considering Palestine and Israel equidistant in any shape or form is being unfair with Palestine, and I am sure any decent Jewish person will agree. We shouldn’t be so afraid to step on any Jewish person’s toes to put both at the same level, especially if we talk about Gaza; one is occupied, the other is the occupier and right at this moment, the invader. The hypocrisy of not seeing the parallelism to the annexation of Ucraine by Russia is beyond comprehension. No one should be able to call for genocide and be respected, but they shouldn’t be imprisoned, or ruined in any way without due process. This country is loosing its democracy at high speed.
"The majority of people on each side don't want to exterminate the other. They both want to live in freedom from oppression. It looks like the problem is the extremist leadership currently in place on each side."
Well stated
Its the same problem in America, we just haven't turned it into a internal civil war (yet)!
All of what you wrote is true. But as we have an ex-president who is saying that he can't be gagged by a court who indicted him because it's a violation of freedom of speech, we are punishing university presidents for defending freedom of speech.
I get your concern about the precedent of big donors pushing out faculty/administrators with views they don't like. But aren't you minimizing the seriousness of this issue? Calling for the genocide of any group of people is barbaric and should not be tolerated in universities under the guise of free speech. It's hate speech. This isn't just another difference in views here. And these presidents were perfectly capable of answering the genocide question with a clear "no, it's intolerable." It sure seems like they didn't because they either do not have a clear guideline about calls for genocide and other hate speech, or if they do, they are not comfortable enforcing them. Not having the moral courage to stand against antisemitism seems as likely, if not more likely, to foster its increase as is the perception that rich Jewish donors control the university.
Stefanik was deliberately laying a trap for the university presidents (maybe she didn't like her GPA at Harvard). I'm surprised Dr. Reich did not see it.
I fully understand and agree with the university presidents; they knew that to say "yes" unequivocally is to open the door to unconstitutional limitations on free speech and then wedge it wider and wider open until students are afraid to say anything for fear it may not be acceptable.
Hate speech, per se, is not illegal in the US unless it rises to the level of inciting violence against a specific group--but that's a judgement call. Is shouting, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" (a common chant at pro-Palestine rallies which some take to be a call for genocide against the Israeli people) a direct incitement to violence against Israelis and/or Jews? Is it even hate speech? Some will hear it as such whether it is intended as such, and some may intend it as such, while others may not--but the only way it can unequivocally considered as such is if someone wielding a weapon shouts it while bearing down on an Israeli or a Jew.
That's why Magill said, "“It is a context-dependent decision." Unless someone explicitly shouts, "Death to the X! They must all be killed!," intent can be ambiguous. Unless someone explicitly calls for genocide, the fact that the auditor HEARS it as a a call for genocide doesn't mean that it is--or that it isn't.
However, if Student A can be kicked out of university for saying something Student X thinks is really a covert call for genocide, even though it is not explicitly so and was not intended as such, opens the university's doors to the Thought Police--an important part of the armamentarium of a dictatorship.
That rich donors can unleash the Thought Police on the administration of universities means the next step will be to unleash them on the faculty, the curriculum, and the students and to turn universities into propaganda-enforcing institutions as DeSantis is trying to do in Florida.
The super-wealthy have already bought the majority of the Supreme Court and a good many legislators, and some, such as the Koch Brothers, spent a good deal of money on trying to buy several universities. To make the best universities of the land the propaganda tools of the plutocracy is to ensure that democracy and freedom are dead in the US.
It's not that complicated. If "from the river to the sea" can be legitimately interpreted to mean wash away all trace of Israel from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean, it should not be tolerated. Otherwise, you open the door to coded hate speech. "The final solution" could be a vision of lasting peace in the Middle East with Jews and Palestinians living in harmony but it should still not be used to rally the crowd at an anti-Israel demonstration.
As Dr. Magill said, "“It is a context-dependent decision." Both phrases would be hate speech at an "anti-Israel: rally, but what about at a "pro-Palestinian"rally? The two need not be the same.
As for coded hate speech, I think that door is already wide open, and it's too late to close it; after all, Trump and the GQP and the white supremacists have been working hard to make it the American vernacular. Ban a phrase, and the haters will come up with a new one; meanwhile some innocent will use the phrase with no idea that it's coded hate speech.
So, what should we do? Assume the worst of everything that's said? See everything as an attack? Should I assume that your saying, "It's not that complicated," REALLY means, "Because you're too stupid to see that it's simple, you should die"? That way lies paranoia and the disintegration of society.
I don't think you are stupid. I just don't agree with you. But I think those university presidents looked stupid for not being able to answer the question simply and clearly, and I don't think they can afford to look stupid even when we all believe them to be smart. They lost this round. No amount of intellectual tap dancing is going to change that.
Different worlds. They live in a world where qualifications, nuances, conditions, and complexities must be addressed and acknowledge; to do less would be to lie. Stefanik (and much of the audience) live in a simpler world of black and white 30 second sound bites.
I don't think so. They had 2 audiences: the academic world and everybody else. Stefanik had already set up the trap, and they couldn't avoid it, so they had to respond in a way that wouldn't anger or frighten those in the academic world, where they spend most of their time,
I don't think you are seeing the broader perspective, or you are refusing to compromise because you want to win the argument. A hearing like that is a public relations game. They didn't know how to play it. By choosing their ivory tower-speak over the language of the context they were in, they alienated a lot of people including some I know who are very much enmeshed in the academic world.
I do see it in a broader perspective and see it a bad PR. Magill has already paid for that. However, given the way Elise Stefanik set up her trap, a simple, unequivocal "yes" would have been far more dangerous for academic free speech in the long run. They refused to sacrifice academic free speech for PR.
I'm glad to see that Harvard wasn't willing to sacrifice academic free speech for PR and donors.
Ask your academic friends if they think a student should be academically punished for chanting something like "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," which some auditors will hear as a call for genocide and others will not.
If they say "yes," ask them whether the student or the university will win the resulting lawsuit.
The "broader perspective" goes beyond PR, and I think the university presidents saw that and were willing to protect their universities even if, as in Magill's case, it cost their jobs.
I understand your point of view but I think you are clinging to a tangent. The Harvard president has now apologized, and there was an article in NYT yesterday about how opinion on campuses is divided. There is no monolithic "academia" for these university presidents to throw themselves into the breach for.
Should I be able to use the "n" word in public statements if I don't think it's offensive even though everyone else in the world does? "From the river to the sea" has a history of meaning death to Israel. If someone wants to chant a slogan that means, "freedom for Palestine," they should be able to be encouraged to use less loaded language without destroying freedom and democracy and the American way of life. If free speech is interpreted as broadly as you want it to be, Trump can get away with anything.
Watching College presidents parsing each word and equivocating about antisemitism in front of Congress was painful. Somewhere between micro aggressions and outright hate speech we’ve lost our way. While I accept that allowed free speech can sometimes be repugnant and uncomfortable, it should never be threatening. College campuses are ideally positioned to provide a safe space to explore divergent ideas and learn where the lines are between disagreement and dishonor; between an opinion and a threat. This is not a mere academic exercise, the future of our planet rests on our ability to resolve disagreements and conflicting objectives.
In the meantime terrible suffering is occurring in both Israel and Gaza. Tragically, bombing Gaza into rubble will likely only make Israel’s future more tenuous. It may become what one general called a tactical victory, but, a strategic loss. Israel’s future depends on maintaining peace with its neighbors, however difficult.
Sadly, the world is full of brilliance, creativity and ambition, but, so little wisdom.
I did not have a problem with how they answered the question, which was specific about actions and school policy.
But in testifying before the House the Presidents were now operating in the space of politics and power, where truth is only valued as a tool for power.
The rich and powerful hate centers fostering independent thought since it is a threat to them so more of the De Santis type of hijacking of schools is a real concern. Texas has done this as well.
It was a trap laid by the GOP House and notably Stefanik was the one given the hatchet job of asking the most potent divisive question. Even the Whitehouse has piled on. Mission accomplished.
In a way it could be good to see laid bare the influence of a few on those colleges widely held in esteem.
Anyway, all of this distraction on a divisive issue by the GOP House helps our adversaries like Putin and does nothing to help the US deal with its many problems.
If we don't get the GOP (Gas, Oil, Petroleum) Party out of power in Congress all face a very grim future.
Yeah, I never could really cotton to the concept of "hate speech" and it's usefulness. I'm pretty much a maximalist for free speech in academic settings. Much less so if one is talking about using a public platform like twitter. Nothing to resolve on this forum.Just expressing. Unlike Andrew I think its quite complicated to arrive at a logically coherent position.
Michelle Goldberg, the New York Times columnist wrote an OP Ed the very morning after the hearing - focusing on how Stefanik set a trap. The Presidents were set up and all three of them in different ways walked right into it. It would have shown the grand hypocrisy of this time - if - as one of the people posting above described, IF the Presidents had tossed the whole query back in Stephanik's face - in asking how can she dare speak when Stephanik and the rest of the cult allow the vile vitriol, the harassment, the threats, the references to vermin to have flooded across the media -... without a peep from Republicans like her.
Let alone - the travesty that citizens United and other rulings have allowed massive amounts of money to corrupt our political system... the use of Situational outrage to make her point is breathtaking.
You are so on target, Maureen. They have their mega dollars in everything. More and more they own us and I will never understand how we tolerate this. There is a complacency that abounds among those comfortable enough to dare not risk anything. History guides so few.
tween 2014 and 2019, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates donated at least US$4.4 billion to numerous US colleges. Together with donations from other Middle East nations, over the five years in question, more than US$5 billion was donated to American universities from authoritarian Middle Eastern nations.
And the Koch brothers donated $89.7 million to academic centers, colleges, and universities in the United States and more than $1.1 million to five leading universities across the UK alone. I find that much scarier.
Legality is not the question. The question is 'does it violate the schools' behavioral ethics student policy.?' Do the schools have any rules about student behavior?
Big money and big business are increasingly using their power to influence politics and now also education and GOP is more than happy to give them political cover, for some handsome donations ofcourse.
The big, really big money is coming from Qatar and Saudi Arabia. They are the ones who have an agenda and have been controlling the curriculum. The rich Americans just want to get their children into these schools to make sure they get more billions.
If it weren’t so terrible, it’s almost silly to think how things are CONTINUOUSLY taken out of context and out of proportion. Hypotheticals can be so harmful. Would anyone take the sentence “Would you die for me?” Why do we have to consider if someone called for the genocide of all Israelis? Has it happened or not? If it has, it’s clearly not okay, but the entire world knows that genocide IS taking place in Gaza. Why should we tolerate that more? The hypocrisy of it all is dumbfounding. And you’re right, Professor, these billionaires actions only feed conspiracy theories about Jews running the world. We shouldn’t be surprised, though, that all innocent Jewish and Arabs alike will suffer the consequences of the misdeeds of a few.
There's no genocide in Gaza. Those people knew Hamas was there all the time. I wonder how many cheered when Hamas attacked Israel. If Israel doesn't kill all the Hamas soldiers in Gaza, Israel will be attacked again. Israel knows what happened to the women and children in Germany and what happened to them now.
Thank you Mr. Reich.
I added a few comments.
Since the Trump-GOP tax scam, I mean plan, was enacted in 2018, America’s 748 billionaires have seen an increase in their wealth of $2.2 trillion -- that’s trillion, with a T. Combined, these households are now worth $5 trillion, but they pay only a fraction of the income-tax rate paid by the rest of us.
How disgusting!!! That’s why they are trying to eliminate Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid along with SNAP, student loan forgiveness, food stamps, etc…, and refuse to pass universal healthcare because they don’t need it! They are living the life of Riley, as my Dad used to say.
Shockingly Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Michael Bloomberg paid ZERO federal income tax in several recent years. They can afford to pay a little more than the average American and continue their extravagant lifestyle. And they call themselves Christians. I think not!
1. Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you."
Hebrews 13:5
2. Greed and a desire for riches are traps that bring ruin and destruction. “The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil,” and Christians are warned, “Do not put your trust in wealth” (see 1 Timothy 6:9-10, 17-18).
What is weird is that the GOP attacks "entitlements" because they can slash funding to whichever programs and then cut more taxes to their wealthy donors. Its not that the wealthy dont need it. Its that they want the money that funds it. The Home Depot CEO Ken Lengune yelled and screamed "Why am I able to get $60000 a year in SSI?" This is a look over here issue. What he doesnt say is he pays 18% on his income when he should be paying at minimum 26%. If his income and wealth earns him $640,000,000 a year (I am just spit balling) then he would be paying $51,000,000 too little in taxes compared to everyone else. Keep your $60 from SSI and give the government its fair share!
I know replying to myself so tacky. In addition if SSI benefits were halved at in this example $30k instead of $60k at 7.7 million recipients that would mean $231 Billion in tax breaks that could be sent to the rich folk. Who doesnt think they aren't salivating at that. That would be $313 Million dollars in free money on average per billionaire.
Since you bring up saving money on SS and entitlements, I suspect that the lowering of life expectancy is also in part related to saving money. For each year of less life of an average person it must be way over $20,000 saved. Does this explain GOP policies from being against school lunches to being against health care? I only ask because i still don’t want to believe they actually want people to die younger. In my heart I don’t think so, but my gut and head says this is so.
I've looked into public assistance. The bars to enter are so high that the children who would qualify for food stamps or school breakfast/lunch programs are in impoverished house holds. When a persons stomach is full and everyone around them is full, why would a person think another person could be hungry. On cuts to education I think that is a direct attack education. On attacks on school lunch, food stamps, health care that to me seems to be a money grab. For congressmen/women and senators the big donors keep them fed. Not the poor voter so they have little reason to fight for such programs and would rather send that money to corporations or billionaire donors. And thus a kid gets sent to school starving, because feeding a child is an entitlement. Giving rich people more money that they didnt earn is supporting the economy....right.
I would argue that they want access to all public institutions- post office, education, social safety net, etc. For one, they want control of that Revenue. But number two, they also get more power over the lives of those employees! salaries, job security (employment at will), benefits (anti-union efforts), etc. You become dependent upon their will for you, and if you decide to strike or buck their system you and your family are screwed, because with no safety net, "if you don't work, you don't eat", and every aspect of your life, and quality there of, is controlled by them!
Keep in mind also the stated tRump and Republican plans to destroy the Civil Service system in U.S. government. Only the ignorant or craven crime syndicate would think that a good idea; it is another tentacle of the plans to utterly destroy America as we have known it, until recent years.
Same as post office, education, social safety net, etc. But more nefarious! For one, they want control of that Revenue. But number two, they also get more power over the lives of those employees! salaries, job security (employment at will), benefits (anti-union efforts), etc. You become dependent upon their will for you, and if you decide to strike or buck their system you and your family are screwed, because with no safety net, "if you don't work, you don't eat", and every aspect of your life, and quality there of, is controlled by them! Number 3, to infiltrate destroy Democracy- the power of the people! To eliminate our already weakened ability to decide who our representatives are and to cripple our limited ability to influence the policies that directly impact our lives. To replace democracy with an autocracy... fascism- a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascists) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Why is PM DeJoy still there selling public owned post offices, etc. Stopping mail delivery, etc.
D_mn good question!!!
fyiurban. Art 12 of the 1936 Soviet Constitution and the foundation of libertarianism, Ayn Rand,
ARTICLE 12. In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honour for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat."
Can't stand Ayn Rand.
Government by Vivek Ramaswamy. Aka, for the people with enough money to survive with no services.
Do you think Republican politicians want people who read and comprehend what they read. None of the powerful people do. they want him just smart enough to take the crummy jobs and run the machines and barely keep the economy going and paying the taxes so they can continue getting richer. it’s really that simple. And just to prove it look how easy Trump has controlled the uneducated class in America.
I believe he once said, on camera, "I love the uneducated."
Cutting education is intentional on two fronts: 1. A dumb society doesn't realize what's happening and will continue to vote against their own self interest. 2. Pushing people away from public schools into charters and private and home options gives the government even more control over education in a backhanded way, no standards at all!
charter schools puts the money and power associated with education into the hands of corporate interests and billionaires. It allows them to bypass the job security, pay structure and other benefits of unionized employees, giving them power over those employees, because they dictate employee security (or lack there of), pay and benefits. Usually in a way that makes the corporation/billionaire more wealthy, at the expense of the worker. It also allows them to bend curriculum to their will.
I remember a runners club for disabled and disadvantaged kids (usually both). It started out benefitting the poor kids greatly. The group helped those kids with training the cost of entering races or to get transportation to track events. Then the middle classers came in. These folks had state paid aids watching there kids and had enough money to pay for their kids races and transport. During one meeting the middle classers demanded equal monetary benefits for lodging transportation and race fees. They got it. Then the money got dilluted and the poor folks couldnt afford to go to events anymore. But the middle classers did. So a group of folks who could afford the expenses got an entitlement and the ones who needed it got too little and thus only half the group (the more wealthy) benefited. This inequality is vouchering in a nutshell.
Very good example
True. Those that have been paying to segregate themselves into private schools, including religious schools, are now demanding the same benefits given to lower income people that can't afford private schools. While corporate interests and religious organizations get access to revenue they haven't had access to.
Kings only wanted the few educated and wealthy. It is about control.
Exactly, an ignorant citizenry is much more malleable
Well, I don't think it takes a lot for a parent to home school their children from what is happening in the schools. With depraved policies for example on transgender women showing their penises in the women's locker room; books assumed suitable for children depicting a boy inserting his penis into another boy's rectum. Are we insane thinking these abominations are acceptable? What standards are there in government-controlled education. One of the worst education systems in the world of wealthy nations.
Come on Phil. Tramsgender women showing their penis is a woman's room?
Have you ever heard of cognitive dissonance.
The transgender woman, pre or post op is naturally trepeditious
about having to go to a woman's restroom, A post op doesn't have a penis, they have a vagina
A cross dresser (transvestite) is too nervous to even go out in public (cognitive dissonance)
You are so full of shit, I wonder if you can see. All you are doing is spouting the b.s. of Desantis, and the idiot Trump Humpers
Thank you!
De Nada. Lies like this and the ones that foster antisemitism, pollute the universe, and are eaten up by small minds that see in them confirmation bias.
I would pity the ignorant phucks, like Rhonda Santis who claimed that slaves benefited from slavery.
But they are way too dangerous, to be pitied.
Wayyyyyy
Trained or not they still lost family were beaten and some rapped by their masters. I'm sure there was a good owner once in awhile but most people are bullies when it comes to power over others.
The locker room incident did happen. Here's a link to local press coverage on the US incident, in case you want to know about it. I am sorry that you find the idea upsetting, but it did occur.
https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/after-trans-woman-exposed-genitalia-to-freshman-girls-in-locker-room-shower-school-district-faces-legal-scrutiny
You forget or or willfully overlooked one word. Trans student exposed girls to male genitalia in school locker room, legal group CLAIMS
Key word claims. I also looked up The Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty, who made this claim, which they did not follow up with a civil suit or criminal complaint, and it turns out that is an ultraconservative organization working to promote Bigotry throughout Wisconsin and the United States.
I have a friend who lives in Wisconsin and has told me all about them, they keep going and they will wind up on the SPLC list of hate groups.
Anyone who sees Law and Liberty in any organizations name, should have the hairs on the nape of the neck stand up. These Theocratic Bigots will lie and do lie. fpr the sake of their authoritarian agenda.
The words Law, Justice and Liberty are just the opposite of what people think, you have to read them by reverse, just like the infamous Mom's For Liberty
You got sucked in, assuming good faith on your part, because this played right into your own fears and concerns. I don't know what kind of life experience you had, but it must have been traumatic, just like any other TERF.
Well, here we go again William. Clearly there was no post op in this case. And for a trans woman to be naked in the biological women's locker room showed no trepidation at all.
If this viewpoint is against democrat progressive ideology then for sure I am not a progressive,
Cognitive dissonance?
Cognitive dissonance is a mental discomfort that arises when a person holds two or more contradictory beliefs, values, or attitudes. This can lead to a state of tension and anxiety, as the person tries to reconcile their conflicting thoughts.
In this case I do not see this condition in myself. Unless I am violating democratic progressive group think.
A post op transwoman is not a voyeur, she is doing her business like any other woman. And she probably has trepidation about undressing in public, she certainly isn't there for puerile purposes, but if you think she is, then that tells me more about you, than her.
You Phil are projecting. Projecting why you would be in a women's dressing room
First it was a bath room Phil now it is a dressing room, care to move the goal posts some more.
You are totally ignorant and all you can do is project.
No Phil you are not a progressive, you sound like a pervert, projecting.
As regards cognitive dissonance, I know what it is, thank you. And I was talking about cognitive dissonance by the transwoman. That you took it to apply to yourself is a huge tell Phil.
You have serious sexual hangups Phil, so no, not a progressive. That you are threatened by trans, informs me that "thou doth protest too much", and I have a nephew who wears women's underwear because it is sexually arousing.
You didn't see my post about homophobes, Their was a Stanford Study, and using electrodes wire to penis and heart rate, and showing pictures of male porn. They discovered that the more homophobic the subject, the more he was aroused by gay porn.
As they said in Avatar. "I see you".
Hah!!!
That is the propaganda litany of the cult that is taking over what was once a progressive, well-educated, prosperous country. Of course what you are describing is unacceptable as part of our system of education and, in FACT, it is NOT part of our public education system in America! What IS an abomination is the "home schooling" movement that is NOT educating kids, but is either neglecting them, abusing them or brainwashing them. Authorities at all levels - education, law enforcement - have cited horrific cases of child abuse and neglect occurring out of sight and intervention to protect children because they are being "home schooled" and at the mercy and control of whoever is claiming to do the "home schooling."
As for charter schools: Betsy DeVos has been a huge money-bags supporter and mover for charter schools. She never ever attended any public school and in her home state of Michigan has done everything in her big-bucks power to undermine public schools. Charter schools in Michigan have been a huge money-maker for private interests. Those who endorse home-schooling, charter schools or any other form of schooling that will sabotage PUBLIC education also love transferring public tax dollars into religious schools. It is a big con game implemented by the crime syndicate that is the "Republican Party" who despise anything PUBLIC and anything that might benefit anyone that is not them.
CNN aired a report from a town in Louisiana that began with a report on their "red-neck parade" that was a parody of traditional Christmas parades. The reporter was on-site interviewing numerous people from this small town. The town was described as - and looked it - as being very impoverished in every way. And yet.....and yet.....every single person interviewed said they would vote for tRump, said how he cared about them, blamed Biden for their worsening problems, etc. etc. etc.
Anybody doubt we have serious problems, whether from the disingenuous badgering by U.S. Representatives of university presidents or university presidents forgetting the difference between simple matters of right and wrong or "impoverished red necks" in Louisiana thinking tRump (or Mike Johnson) likes them and cares about them??
Although I agree with Professor Reich's point in this essay, my question is this: Stefanik's questions were disingenous, as are all of the questions put by "Republicans" in these "inquisition" hearings of all kinds of people. So the question is: IF Stefanik had gotten the answer she was demanding, her next question would have been: and how will you deal with those who are protesting and chanting anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, hate-filled calls for violence against Jews (or any other group)? And what would the "correct" answer from those presidents to that question be?
I think part of the deeper problem is that Trump has now validated the open expression of resentment and racist hatred (against "vermin" who will "poison the bloodline" of America) and has celebrated violence as political speech (Jan.6).
He has unleashed Fear and Intimidation to the point where civil discourse, and those who should be championing it, are left spinning in circles.
And sadly, (big) money triumphs over civil discourse (I don't like what you said, so take my name off the library).
The great experiment in freedom and democracy is running into very turbulent waters.
My wife home-schooled our daughter. She finished one year early. She gained a BA in music business, and later an MA in Entertainment business. She is now the Marketing Manager for a Hi-Tech company. We purchased a curriculum from a school specializing in home schooling, and they sent the exam each year and graded it. If one decides to home school, there is an investment side to this approach.
There is a danger in making generalizations. Not all home-schooled children are left to "teach" themselves and suffer a poor education...
Anecdotal accounts of individual "home school" experiences can always be shown to support one point or another. There is a good article in today's (December 12, 2023) Washington Post about research on home schooling. It's very interesting. There are also news reports from all over the country over the years of the "home school" trend of children being dropped right through all of the cracks and gaps in all systems, most horrifically through any system that might protect them from monstrous "care takers" who are ostensibly doing "home schooling."
I'm sure you are not the exception but neither are you the rule.
As for me, I think PUBLIC elements of our society are a key part of what has set this country apart from all other countries in all other eras of human endeavor; it's been a beautiful thing, an enlightened thing: public education for all; public libraries, public parks, public swimming pools & swimming lessons, public hospitals, public HEALTH services of all kinds, public mail services, and on and on; and all of these facets of American life (and more) have been under relentless attack by "Republican" so-called "conservative" groups forever; they seem to have that schadenfreude view of life that anything that benefits all must surely take away from THEIR own entitlements! and "conservative" is in quotes because there is nothing conservative about those groups, except when it comes to "conserving" what THEY deem necessary to conserve, and that brand of "conservatism" will invariably mean that everyone will pay to conserve the "conservatives" demands: pay through the nose while losing what benefits ALL in order to provide for what benefits the "conservatives."
The "gummit is the enemy" crowd, the "get gummit out of our business" crowd, is currently slimey-alive in Texas (and similar knuckle-dragging locales) where enslaving women as vessels to carry embryos and produce fetuses is their m.o.
Seeing huge swaths of streets in other countries FILLED with people - men and women - who will NOT allow government to enslave women, to make health and family decisions for women/men/families is poignant because in AMERICA ("land of the free. home of the brave") it is becoming a secret underground railroad situation to help women get the health/reproductive/family planning care they need!
And finally, who in the HELL does that vile, abomination of a so-called human, Texas AG Ken Paxton - ugly, disgusting, contemptible crook - think he is?!!! And WHERE are the WOMEN of the United States of America??!!
I taught in NYC intermediate schools for over 30 years . I was a dean for over six years and I never heard of or knew of any trans person showing their penis. I can recall several occasions where kids considered straight exposed themselves.I do recall an occasional gay student being harassed into harming themselves and cutting class to avoid their tormentors.
Thats the past. All is new now.
BS.
And yet the poor voting masses give hard-earned meager bux to orange clown T, the supreme grifter. Go figure.
he said he loved the uneducated/stupid
I agree what makes the top 20% think they are entitled to double the wealth of the bottom 80%? The bottom 60% make $1 of income for every $99 of what the top 1% make. Thats an incredible amount of inequality that causes power to be concentrated in the hands of 737 billionaires and 22 million millionaires. That thry only got due to absurdly low tax rates and exclusions on wealth income as taxable income.
The GenZ kids think they are entitled to something because they are living out of their cars instead of apartments or houses. Those with college degrees are living with their parents and debt coming out of their asses.
Gen Z realizes that Corporate interests and the Billionaire class, have had no loyalty to the generations before them and therefore understand the same will have no loyalty to them. They choose not to be subservient to those corporations and billionaires. And in fact, choose to push back against them.
Thou speaketh like an idiot. A know nothing a swallower of bull manure.
Your rant is a copy and paste of the crap that shows up on fascists "channels"
Lonny what do you mean by "woke"? We cannot have moral clarity unless we also have mental clarity.
Lenny is having an orgasm triggering the libs.
“The villain in reality is those who 1. think they are entitled to the earnings and services of others. “ do you mean the owners of businesses who benefit disproportionately from the work of others? If so we agree.
Says a Libertarian, or is it a Trump Humper.
You have great company, not only the billionaire "libertarians" and Trump Humpers, but
The 1936 constitution of the USSR
ARTICLE 12. In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honour for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat."
@ Bill Reitz. Most red states do not have general assistance. That ended in 1996. Some have temporary assistance that lasts a couple of months.
We've seen greed in the last century for the Fortune 500. At least those rich were philanthropists. Not a penny for COVID but profit for them. Never such a greedy generation in our history. They care little for anyone.
Anand Ghirahadas "Winner's Take All The Elite Charade of Changing The World" shows the issue with philanthropy. It hasnt changed since the time of Andrew Carnegie and the Gospel of wealth. Where any and all bad labor abusing or bad business practices are permissible as long as you "give it back" before you die, also another fallacy. The short and skinny of it is people will give back via philanthropy or engineer a philanthropy that benefits them and their company but has no intention of fixing the root cause of the problem. Billion dollar problem, Million dollar bandaid. We cant rely on companies and the wealthy to determine what is best to do with the wealth they earned from overly generous government tax regulation and poor worker representation. The way I see it without all the wealthy benefits most of they money they have they never should have had in the first place. That is to say that whatever they decide to do with the money that they shouldnt have "earned" in the first place is not their decision to make but the peoples in a democratic manor.
You are so right. The rich alone have no idea where money is needed. There is a point where no way can they spend all that money but pass it down to their children, etc. That creates bad people since they never have a desire to work or share...be a good person period. No one is an island is never learned.
I definitely agree. I look at the US this way. You have a 100 people in a room and 1 of those people thinks they're ideas are better than the other 99. So using their money and power they do whatever they want regardless of its affect on the other 99. If the 100 were properly represented that 1 person can still have their opinion fairly represented and the majority ideas of the 100 would prevail. Its the same with slices of pizza at a meeting. You've got that one guy who goes up to the table and takes 3 slices, the other folks take one a time and some get none. All because of that person who is entitled to think their greed is more important than other peoples needs. Needs over Greed.
DK, it is hard to begin to know what Republicans want beyond power. They love the idea of power and wielding it wherever they can. They have gotten abortion, for example made mostly illegal in their "red" states, but life has not gotten better for anyone in those states. They preach hate for trans youth and, trans people in general but life has not improved in the "red" states for the people there. They have blamed Democrats for all the people's woes while the people keep electing the fools who are often responsible for being sure nothing for the people improves. There is something really depressing about that. How can anyone reach people who are so deep in the impacts of the Republican addiction to power and the addiction to money of the celebrities they love learning about through our media and thinking they want to emulate?
Ruth, it's the Master's Mentality: when a master's authority is challenged s/he respond with moral outrage, vitriol, and, quite often, violence. The White ruling elites of the South feel challenged today as never before. Some of them are heavily invested in the fossil fuels industry. The old John C. Calhoun strategy of dividing poor Whites from Blacks is no longer sufficient. This is why they appeal to tribalism, sexism, racism, religion even.
Because they are told as the lyrics go in an old Bob Dylan song” you’re better than them you were born with white skin”. from the song “only a pawn in their game”.” today, Medgar, Evers was buried from the bullet he caught, they lowered him down as a king, but when the shadowy sun ,sets on the one ,that fired the gun, you’ll see by his grave on the stone that remains carved next to his name his epitaph claims ,he’s only a pawn in their game”. One of Bob’s best.
I think Bob needs to write a new theme song for our times.
Not to stray too far from Dr. Reich’s angle in this piece, I’ve often wondered a similar thing about climate change denial.
After all, what groups suffer the most from cities sinking into the ocean and daytime temperatures too hot for the human body to withstand? Which demographic tends to be the ones working outside in un-air-conditioned spaces?
Black, brown, undereducated, immigrants and other poverty populations. Off with their heads.
I just read a horrifying piece on USPS deaths from heat exhaustion being covered up.
The megabillionaires want to rule the world.
So climate change is a convenient D&C (dusting and cleaning) for them. They have their underground bunkers, private fire fighters, yachts, etc. How they must laugh at us peons.
I used to be a person with hope. No more.
I wont follow the billionaires in their path of headonistic self destruction. They will toss aside minorities and the poor first, then the world will become to uninhabital for them too. Their rockets wont save them. Earth is the biggest mothership there is. We cant move somewhere else without earth as a giant supply station for that off world colony. Elon can have all the kids he wants they too will die if dont stop his and all the other billionaires pursuit of death.
Computer billionaire Larry Ellison once pitched a big project to Steve Jobs, who at that time was slowly dying of pancreatic cancer. Jobs asked him how many billions he had, and Ellison said somewhere between 10 and 15. Then Jobs asked, why do you need more?
Billionaires seem to be insatiable in their quest for more, more, more.
Dogmother, when you abandon hope, you stop looking for a savior, look in the mirror for your savior. Abandon hope and take up the sword, metaphorically of course, but literally later if the theocratic fascists take over the country.
The saddest pictures I have ever seen is of Jews marching into a mass grave to be shot, or streams of people debarking from freight cars to be marched into camps with gates marked with Arbeit Macht Frei.
They did so because they had hope.
The ones who lost hope, and took the threat seriously, fled Germany, or as in the Warsaw ghetto did not march into the cold dark night., but fought back and did not die like sheep, but took a few of the bastards with them.
It would explain the RepugnaF**KS' letting the Medicare (DIS)Advantage plan insurance company mega donors to themselves get away with literally killing their policyholders by delaying, and putting off paying for care until they die, or give up fighting them, and then die.
I would rather not think that they WANT it, but their actions and inactions certainly do nothing to prevent it (the "it" being what you described as wanting "people to die younger." The rampant death-march of Covid that ran through nursing homes/and other elderly group congregate housing, as well as Covid's disproportionate effect on Black Americans, is powerful testimony to the neglect, hatred, disregard - take your pick - for certain segments of our population. The relentless assault against Social Security and the lies they tell about it, the hostile propaganda they promote, are vile.
I always say that they would promote the Ice Floe Final Solution for Elders if they hadn't so arduously denied climate change and thus fueled (no pun) the disappearance of Earth's ice and its ice floes.
America's elders had the temerity to work, save, and enjoy even slightly improved health and longevity and the life-long contributions to Social Security. Republican administrations were successful at moving elders' savings and pensions over to Republican Wall Street paramours several decades ago, requiring that elders become individual investors. That has never been enough to satisfy that greedy, craven beast though, not until all the money is in the hands of Wall Street managers. Elders are increasingly painted as selfish leeches, when, in fact, it is the do-nothing but steal from tax-payers their - true use of the word - entitlements who are the selfish leeches, i.e. the "electeds" who are not public servants but are servants to the sources of wealth.
The truth is they don't care about people, especially, the non-wealthy. They just as soon see them fall off the face of this planet.
After they clean the house and cut the grass of course.
...and more money to donate to further corrupt the government. Trump's army of idiots thinks these people earn what they take in.
The malignant narcissist I dealt with that ran a pyramid scheme strongly believed he deserved every penny of what he stole. It was a mantra. "These people owe me. I deserve it."
That is what the toothless, bib overall redneck, said as he stood on the steps of his single wide, with trash littered yard, when he responded to documentartian Alexandra Pelosoi, when she asked "Why do you opposed to food stamps?" He responde, because them "lazy niques don't deserve them". She replied, but you get food stamps, his response was "That's OK because I earned them" (how selling bottles and cans for recycling?
I certainly don’t know anyone on SSI who gets $60K per year. In my generous state (MN), the average SSI payment is less that $600/month. Annual comparisons of rent for one-bedroom apartments vs SSI show that there is not one county in the US where a person whose sole income is SSI can find an affordable apartment. What is this jerk talking about???
Anyone who pays the maximum allowable tax rate for SSI, I think its taxes on $400,000? Can then get the max SSI benefit. Its not something you or will ever see. The main problem is SSI itself uses about $55 Billion a year. The GOP would love to get rid of all $55 billion and send that money in the form of tax breaks to the already filthy rich.
Its who the government doesnt take the money from that is a problem. We are getting taxed between 26% and 38%. Billionaires are taxed at an average effective tax rate of 8%. Through manipulation of the laws corporations and billionaires have made things this way. Only the government can ever claw that back. Even if it pissed it all away. Less money in the hands of the gilded few is better means more influence for we the 300 million non gilded age voters.
Yeap quote your funny facts. Warren buffet pays a effective tax of 0.26% That seems pretty close to 26%. You can play your rich peoples harp all day long. I am done talking to you.
Nothing to defend. Your tactics are typical of your ilk, you sort and sift to find that which confirms your bias.
You do know that you are a tool, of your betters?
Do you get an orgasm every time you type "leftie"
What these stats mean however is a matter of judgement and additional facts.
B.S. Lonny. The wealthy do not pay 26%, most do not pay taxes at all, Bezo's doesn't, Musk doesn't. They have enough money to take advantage of exemptions, deductions, and tax credits, to not pay a thing. They deduct their airplanes and cars as a business expense, either amortized or deducted lump sum, when deducted lump sum, they then go out and buy another, and cliam that as an expense.
A Yacht and it's maintance are business expenses, they use them at least once for a business meeting.
Trump paid no taxes for the last five years, save one in which he paid $750
You have been fed a bunch of poison, and gladly swallowed it, because of confirmation bias.
He is rich on our government tax dollars. Even his children are rich for generations...yet ours aren't. 90% tax rate is need for him.
Do you know what percent of income or wealth the top 1% have ?
I mean, if 1% owned 80% of everything then 26% would seem a very low amount they are paying. So you have to know something about those numbers.
Lenny you are a beneficiary of socialism. From the roads you drive on, to the air corridors you fly through, from your education, to the education of your health providers, to the funding of drugs by the government, from the water you drink, to the electricity you use.
How do you think billionaires became billionaires, they have done it with your taxes.
So why do you defend the 10%, do you think you believe that one day you will be one too.
Or is it your hatred and resentment of people of color, and those "less worthy than you"
You have done a very good job of exposing your self as a sociopath Lenny.
Hard to proper in the middle of no where. Jobs aren't there.
It's a hacker. I'm trying right now to get rid of it.
I checked Reich’s LinkedIn page where he also posts the same newsletter which sends the reader to Substack. Today’s newsletter hasn’t posted on LinkedIn yet. Hopefully it doesn’t until this gets fixed. Robert gets a lot more negative comments over on LinkedIn since the subscriber base is more business oriented and more conservative.
The REAL Robert Reich!
Sorry, folks, it appears I've been hacked. (I'm working with substack at the moment to eliminate the hacker. It's really me only when there's a purple check mark after my name.)
Hack, schmack! Wait till AI takes over. Then we're all in trouble.
If it was REALLY Robert Reich, his comment would have "Author" by his name!
I feel like you’ve been hacked.
You've been hacked.
Ignore that Reich guy. I'll sell you the George Washington Bridge for 10 million dollars and you can keep the tolls collected forever!
This sure sounds like a scam! Robert
That should give you warm fuzzy feelings and cause you to rejoice when elderly and disabled people lose their homes and end up homeless, living on the streets till they conveniently die from hunger and cold weather. Think of all the real estate you can gobble up.
Steve Mnuchin, Trump's Secretary of the Treasury, made billions off (some say he invented) the fake-mortgage-asset schemes that almost caused a depression, was called the "foreclosure king." Trump loved him, called him a financial genius.
If it is fake, how can it run out?
🤣🤣🤣🤣
And what will you do when it runs out? Depend on the pension your employer set aside, don't bank on it. ENRON employees had a nice retirement program, as did Sears and other corporations, until they went bankrupt and/or bought up by another corporation.
Maybe you hire someone to steal your money, or invest it yourself, lots of luck when the next Jerome Powell/DJT depression hits.
You had best be an old fart like me, because if you are younger, the chances of you retiring or living to retiring are pretty damn bad, and those billionaire em effers that you love so much, will not escape the speeding train roaring down the tracks, and neither will you.
Folk like you are like the mother stuck on RR tracks, dialing a cell phone for help, telling the kids in the back seat, that not to worry, they will hear the train coming in time.
WOW — Merry Christmas to you 🌲🌲
Bill, you're right about the taxes. Those guys are addicted to money and power. I know I have said this before, but we seem to ignore that. We act as though they are "just businessmen" who are doing their job for themselves and their shareholders. The first part of that is true, doing it for themselves. The other is just a side effect. They would ignore shareholders if they could. That is why they raise prices of everything even without need, then blame it on supply chains, overhead, and having to pay workers more. The lies just drip from their mouths and corporate statements, but they get away with it because We the People have decided those guys and it is nearly always men are what so many people aspire to be, probably feeling their own addiction stirring. The ultra-rich think they would just love to rule over a nation of very poor, struggling people, but I doubt they would like it much when there is starvation, famine, disease that would eventually get them too. Addiction makes people unable to see the world as it is, noting only the fantasy they are living in. No one on earth ever needs a 200 foot yacht, but there it is, just waiting for the rare visits (I think it's Bezos) from its owner. What a waste, but addiction to money and power will do that to a whole lot of people. We don't need to salute them for it. We don't salute drug addicted people for their addiction and nor should we the money/power addicts.
You nailed it again, Ruth. Beware the rise of monarchy! Always, with money comes monarchy. Yes, same root word. Returning to monarchy is a regression. Calling it addiction is right up there.
Selfishness/Greed
I think we're back in the 1980s "Wall Street" mentality when Gordon Grecko says "Greed is Good."
Usually the billionaires give a tiny fraction of what they make to philanthropy. By most anyones standards it is a lot of money. By their standards its a rounding error. The amount of money they make off of their employees by underpayment or layoffs vastly outgains their philanthropy by a factor of 100 or a 1000:1. The pursuit of greater and greater wealth is then excused by the pursuit, albeit woefully inadequate pursuit of philanthropy that in no way threatens their power or the balance of power in general.
I think 1% of the population has 99% of the wealth.
I use this analogy.
100 people are in the desert dying of thirst.
A truck arrives with 100 bottles of water.
There's a billionaire among the 100 people; he claims 99 bottles and leaves with the truck, and the remaining 99 people share the 1 remaining bottle of water.
That is a good anology I will use it. In another part of the substack I broke down the inequality distribution. For every 450,000 US citizen there is 1 Billionaire, 30,000 Millionaires and 420,000 (93.5%) serving those 30,000 (6.5%) people (and the oligarch or feudal lord, 0.0002%). I am curious if the companies follow the same percentage of inequality, with the CEO replacing the billionaire and ? Management substituting for the millionaires. Though in many places management are paid near equally badly compared to the employees they manage.
If this was REALLY Robert Reich, the word "Author" would appear by his name. A fake!
Correct, I reported it and apparently others have too.
I can't help to think that stealing someone's persona like this is illegal. Substack should contact law enforcement to get this person fitted with a orange jumpsuit!
Yes. i agree. This is identity theft out in the open. Who knows where it originates!
What’s this? Are you providing investment advise?
I really don't think that is Dr. Reich. It's some bloody hack!
Correct (I think)! A few months ago some hack using Reich's name was responding to people's comments here asking us to text him through a certain number (not always the same number as I recall). This is not the way Dr. Reich speaks, & he's highly unlikely to have us contact him by Telegram or to introduce us to a "life changing investment".
I had a similar action last year, although it appeared in my email and not here in comment section.
I deleted without opening.
There's no way Reich would reach out to me specifically.
Reported.
I did too.
He's selling a bridge in Brooklyn. Cheap! How much money do you have in your bank account?
If this was REALLY Robert Reich, the word "Author" would appear by his name. A fake!
Huh???????????????????
Hacked????
OK--- call me 646 884 0594 WhatsApp Neal Hugh Hurwitz NY NY
Bloomberg is Jewish. But more importantly the Republican effort to remove all social programs that benefit the middle class has been going on for a long time and has more to do w this libertarian streak and crazy fantasy of the rugged independent self dependent American. Since Reagan decided we didn’t need a middle class, the movement to extinguish all govt support continues.
They have forgotten “united we stand, divided we fall”.
Yes, there is a time in everyone’s life when there is a need for help. It can come when least expected. I look around my community and family and see that. Many folks can get creative and keep going others reach a point when nothing helps and need the food bank, shelter, something more. These people who recognize their troubles and are brave enough to ask are the hero’s. Asking for help isn’t easy. But this is what helps all of us. People living on the street and going without brings ALL of us down. Having enough is what we want. Not to be rich. Just be happy, know what’s true, trust our neighbors. This feels like it’s disappearing. I personally, an educated woman have very little trust in people. When I have a pleasant interchange when I leave home, it’s great but always a surprise and I look back and wonder. The big carousel we ride around takes us to crazy places. We need to stop this ride, wake up, realize important and live out our days considering ourselves and our future. And the 1 percenters need to lead the way. The pedestal they rest on is about to break.
They no longer need a muffle class because the whole world is now their customer base. Global capitalism.
I think its time for people's socialism and nationalism if undustries, what the hay...im just sayin.
MIDDLE class. Autocorrect is running rampant!
Actually, it's the lower middle class, or what I call the mower class.
The removal of social programs is, and has been, an effective means of dividing the majority. Woke individuals know that it was 'social programs' following the great depression and WWII, that created the, predominately white, 'middle class'. They know that these programs (similar to the expansion of medicaid) were distributed by the States, so few black Americans were able to access those programs. Redlining pigeonholed black Americans to the undesirable parts of town where property values are still the lowest. But following the Civil Rights Era, it became more difficult to discriminate against black Americans and thus, harder to keep them from 'social programs'. When black Americans began to access social programs, they refined the "southern strategy" so that it became about class. Most white Americans were now middle class and didn't need those programs so they went along with (and continue to support) republican efforts to end social programs that benefit those under 'middle class'. The byproduct of this strategy, and it's ability to have some "cutting off their noses to spite their own faces", has been that we are ALL suffering, as you summize. In this effort to keep the undeserving black Americans from accessing social programs, poor whites and the middle class also continue to suffer (see Heather McGee's book- "The Sum Of Us"). Reagan strategist, Lee Atwater explained this new "Southern Strategy"-
Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now you don't have to do that. All that you need to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues that he's campaigned on since 1964, and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.
Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?
Atwater: Y'all don't quote me on this. You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968, you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger". So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the back-burner."
Ironically, there were more white women's families on AFDC when Clinton allowed it to be demolished, than black or brown women's families. This is because there are more white women than black/brown in this country. So every whipping applied by cutting programs and funds hurts not just the minority, but also those we don't mean to hurt. ("Well, most of them are working class, anyway, and they don't matter either.") It was called, "AID to FAMILIES with DEPENDENT CHILDREN." Authored by Eleanor Roosevelt. White people were always the majority recipients. It allowed me to complete my education and qualify me for a job that paid enough to support my family. I was the poster child: white, in transition from marriage, two toddlers. Less than three years a recipient. For at least 85 percent of AFDC recipients, my situation was typical. It was a fine government program that lifted up my family.
True. And that’s why it to a lot to kill it. From there it went to WIC and SNAP. In many cases the media, GOP, and other anti-low income aid program folks place brown, Black, immigrants, and single mothers as the recipients of this aid. It became another thing for the Libertarians and Conservatives to hate. Labeled as ‘handouts’, they were always slated for the chopping block.
An 'inconvenient truth' for those that seek ultimate wealth & power, by dividing and conquering the majority. they prefer us to lack the knowledge that would reveal their game and the moves that would enable us to defeat them.
Also, ironically when Atwater was dying ( brain cancer, I think) he admitted that his political strategy was racist and was embarrassed or felt criminal in what he was able to do. He regretted the harm he did—but it took dying at a young age to get him to understand what is important.
Was it Lee Atwater who came up with the idea about opposition research, that instead of finding dirt on your opponent, just make up shit?
fyiurban: Lee Atwater and his ilk, represent(ed) the millionaire, now bllionaire class, and use racism as a tool,to keep us all in bondage and to protect their wealth and power.What you say is correct, there is in fact racism, behind Reaganomics, but the root of it all, was identified by Bernie Sanders, and Warren Buffet, it is class warfare, and the billionaire class won.
Actually it is deeper than that, at root it is patriarchal ism . if you ask why 5% isn't enough, the answer is to own the world. And to own the world, involves a mad competitive scramble of the elites to get to the top of the manure pile, and to keep from sliding down. And the underlying motivation?
Look no further than the animal world. The rut
Agreed. culture wars are a way to divide. They simultaneously provide a scapegoat to distract us and hide the real culprits- corporate interests and billionaires.
you got it spot on!
This column is filled with misinformation. Please, Professor Reich, don't make false generalizations and make the situation worse by making statements that aren't backed up by facts. (1) Magill wasn't forced out of her job at Penn because of a comment made in a Congressional hearing. The situation at Penn has been going on since even before October 7. Penn is seriously in violation of the Department of Education's Title VI policies. The Palestine Writes conference at Penn hosted speakers who were not literary figures and who are known for blatant antisemitic statements. An Israeli student's contact information was outed and the student received death threats and has not gone out of his room for weeks. A student was punched. The Hillel House was vandalized. A location adjacent to a Jewish fraternity was defaced with antisemitic graffiti. At an anti-Israel protest, people shot smoke bombs at police. Anti-Israel protestors took over Houston Hall (the old student center building) and people with no relation to the campus are staying there. Jewish students are subjected to them chanting hostile slogans. The Daily Pennsylvanian student newspaper refused to publish pro-Israel columns and letter by students and alumni. People who write to the DP are journalism alumni or students who are not necessarily wealthy. Journalism alumni are definitely not wealthy. These are a few of the problems going on. Students reached out to lawyers, who have filed a Title VI civil rights case with the Department of Education. The Jewish students at Vermont won their case. The Penn students will win. In August 31, the Dept of Education issued detailed guidelines for the adjudication of complaints. In summary, if students cannot pursue their academic work and career goals without interference, then a violation of Title VI has occurred. Please study what has occurred at Penn for the past few months, listen to the videos made by Penn students, including their statements at the House Republicans' press conference. It is sad that the Republicans could take advantage of this issue. But please do not spread false information that Magill's ouster was because of remarks made at a Congressional hearing.
100% accurate. I hope more people read your response here.
Let’s not forget to discuss the billions of dollars flooding American Universities from Qatar, Saudi Arabia and other authoritarian countries. This has had a direct impact on the proliferation of the BDS movement and other antisemitic activities on campuses. It is a fight for “hearts and minds” and we do have to fight back against that, and, while exerting financial pressure may not be the purest form of resistance, we must use the tools we have.
But it was because of that. While all the other things may have occurred, the end cause was her inability to satisfy donors and the rest of the admin. Did you read his final line. If not, you should.
Don't spread misinformation. A broad range of students, parents, alumni of all income levels and the Office of the Governor (hearing from parents and students) have been petitioning for months. Thousands of alumni have signed petitions and letters. I receive the alumni communications. I know what is going on. What direct experience do you have?
The Governor visited the Hillel House that was vandalized. Students have the right to gather at a house of worship without vandalism and an attack on their building. Penn was going to lose a big Title VI civil rights complaint case and lose a great deal of government money, so they took the steps to remedy the problem because then perhaps the Department of Education won't come down on them as much. The Trustees are responsible for keeping the students safe, and if the university president isn't succeeding at that, they need to hire someone else. You can't have a campus where people are throwing smoke bombs at the police and outsiders are staying 24/7 in the student union and students are getting death threats and building are vandalized.
I can't help but smell Arab oil money behind this tilt of universities to Islam.
Besieged with lies and obfuscations, which in Islam are called taqiyyah and per Mo, while lying to save your self is a sin, you are required to lie in the service of Islam.
That and the State Departments preferences for Arab oil, The Saudis own Exxon Refineries., has resulted in our universities being the safe nesting place for Muslims who are hostile to the west and Jews.
You can see them as hosts on TV or reporters, they (and Martin Griffiths of the UN) accept without question, every utterance, ever number that comes out HAMAS, but when the IDF posts something that is inimical of HAMAS, it is preceded or followed with a caveat - not verified, and no such caveat for HAMAS
Seriously?
Also, complaints came from the students and their parents and alumni, not just a few wealthy people. The governor visited the students at the hillel building that was vandalized.
That wouldn't have satisfied them. They were looking for blood.
One point never made is that you can be pro Zionism and still be an anti-semite which describes Stephanik and Trump. There are 2 reasons for that. One is the funding of APIAC and the insane belief that when Israel regains all the Holy Lands, it will kick off the Apocalypse and Jesus will come out of hiding and lead the righteous who just happen to be the evangelicals. Of course all the Jews will die then because they don't have the right beliefs.
William, I understand some of these End Times believers are actually attempting to convert Jews fighting on the front lines. Conversion of Jews is part of the End Times movement.
Right Marge but only 240,000 of them, number from Revelations and designation from the charlatans who promote the end times.
I thought the Twelve Tribes of Israel numbered 144,000.
Nah, the new testament says nothing about the mythical lost tribes. I don't know where you heard that, but it is wrong, then again so is everything you hear from the pulpit or Xtian radio and TV
The TeNACH (OT) certainly don' say anything about it, and neither does the book of Jewish heresy (NT).
Most likely in the Book of Mormon, then.
Not only that, the Restoration of Israel in 1948 ('47?) was very big in End Times thinking. A lot of the current narrative began as far back as the Civil War.
I've read the same.
And one can be an antiZionist and still be ProIsrael,without being an antisemite, but not according to Jonarhan Greenblatt of the ADL, and many others.
Eat the rich !!!!
They are toxic. No thanks.
The “Christians” have no time for Bible verses unless it suits them. You have stated this very well. Education is key to overcoming ignorance fear and hate. Looks like they afraid of that too. Thank you for your valuable facts and opinion.
Susan0.
Christians are experts with scissors and glue. There are 613 commandments in Leviticus and Deuteronmy, yet Christians cut and paste only 10, they disregard the inconvenient ones, like not wearing clothing of mixed fabric, not eating shell fish and pig.
And that is EXACTLY the warning that is stated in the Bible and in most any spiritual modality of any merit. . MONEY is not bad. It is THE LOVE OF MONEY that causes all the problems. Love what it can do for you and your loved ones well being, comfort, and enjoyment of life... but when the love becomes the focus of the money itself.... that is where the problems all start!!!! That is when the need happens to accumulate more and more and more. That is when money becomes an addiction and a sickness.
Love of money is a form of selfishness. Selfishness is the opposite of loving thy neighbor as thyself.
Yes it is and also breeds the ultimate greed.
Catalyst to all sin/taking advantage. It allows you to place yourself above another, making them 'less than', which gives justification for taking advantage of them or treating them as 'less than" and unworthy of equal treatment.
True fyiurban, but let's go back 2,000 years to Jerusalem. When your neighbor was a tribesman, not a Samaritan, not a Greek or an Egyptian, certainly not a Roman
I like the Good Samaritan, who today would represent a democrat helping a republican, a black person helping a white person, a rich person helping a poor one, a straight person helping an LGBTQ person, an atheist helping a Christian, a Jew helping a Palestinian, a Russian helping a Ukrainian... a man loving his neighbor as himself... doing unto another, what he would have them do unto him...
Don't forget the tax cut sham that allows the rich to lend money to the government (with the guarantee that it will be paid back with interest) in lieu of paying taxes. And also don't forget that it will be our taxes (yours and mine) that pays the interest on the loans made by the rich to our over extended government.
Government debt is the greatest boondoggle the rich ever created. The greater the government debt, the more income they get and the greater the burden on the rest of us.
Tax cuts are nothing but a welfare program for the rich.
( love the reference to "Life of Riley." I use this expression a lot and of course no one younger than a boomer, "gets it!"). Neoliberalism aka Reagonamics, has destroyed this country, and created a inequality from wealth, ethinicity, religion, and even "truth" that we have this nonsense to deal with as one party/group is detroying democracy as we know it.
Thom Hartman has written a book, and a substack article (more than one) which says the same thing Keith.
Yes! I just shared it on FB to my friends. . https://hartmannreport.com/p/can-america-wake-up-from-the-free-d5e?fbclid=IwAR3h_1v_jxWmBE-hQED_PuRCx_OpJR72xfDGfzKjKJ91rKMg4mejIg-fKJo also his book on neoliberalism. I never quite knew what it meant until I read his article. What I found more interesting is how he relates that this neoliberism, had created all this inequality that is driving what used to be ignorant non-political types to MAGA world, and even created these inequality-hype about poor Palestinians and getting college students to protest, and Congress to demand Ivy League schools to call "genocide of Jews" a specific condemnation, and how universities should set policty towards students. Universities are institutions of free speech, and while the Presidents didn't handle it well, they should of gotten up and walked out. . .they were brow beat by radicalization that is not reality.
Might I add-
2 Timothy 3:1-5
1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
unfortunately, way too many ppl wan to emulate this person/example or follow them!!! That does not bode well for the future!
Hard to believe that a major university President could be dumb enough to get bamboozled by a moron like Elise Stefanik.
not hard to believe when you realize that 75 million Americans were bamboozled by a moron like Trump.
Bloomberg is a Christian? Are you sure?
It is because the congress critter, that their class have bought and paid for, have written exclusions, exemptions and credits into the tax code. And they live on OPM, they don't fork over their money to buy mansions, aircraft and luxury vehicles and yachts, they tax advantage of tax codes. Written by politicians that they have freely bought.
By eliminating basically policies that only help the wealthiest. By introducing a progressive tax rates, much like the ones in 60s and 70s.
By using the premiums paid to for profit insurance companies.
Also drowning the supply-side economic ( trickle down) theory in a bathtub. Dude
How are you set Leftie? One of those talking head millionaires, a libertarian who got rich off someone elses labor?
The GOP over many administration's
.
But you knew that already, did you? Dude
Dido to you, dude
"We don't tax wealth in the US". Really? What are real estate taxes and personal property taxes? They are taxes on wealth.
My small house that is only half paid for, 26-year-old truck I use for work, and 30-year-old car are taxed every year as wealth. They don’t generate any income for me. The money I make is also taxed, and I pay into SS and Medicare. I’m taxed out the wazoo.
Even a small percentage of tax on say, anyone with a billion dollars or more, could cover a huge part (maybe all) of the taxes you (and everyone else) pays.
But tax the billionaires? Nah, that's communism.
What is wealth? isn't it investments in property, businesses, stock market?
These all generate incomes of some sort, and are or should tax accordingly to the overall wealth.
Tax breaks indeed helped many of these wealthy folks, dude.
Bret see my post above. The 16th Amendment defines income, exactly as you define wealth. Reimburse for labor was not defined as income, Congress and the Billionaires weaseled their way around it, but forcing you to file, prosecuting if you don't or evade, and creating exemptions, exclusions, and credits for the wealthy.
Wealth is that which makes us happy, a person who is not a necessitas man, as FDR said, and who has health, surrounded by family and/or friends who enjoy them is wealthy.
The upper class are just greedy hogs.
And alas the lower class, lower middle class, are like crabs in a pot.
To be specific I was defining financial wealth.
Time wealth, health wealth and others are just as important if not more.
In the case of hedge funds the US doesn´t tax income either. They call it carried interest and tax as capital.
I just want to cut in here because most of you are younger than I, and don't remember the pre-1980 tax scale. My recollection is that the very rich were paying taxes above 90 percent, yet after taxes, they were still rich. Most Americans realized that huge accumulation of wealth represented an unbalanced situation, because all that wealth had been created by low-paid workers, and in America, that seemed un-American. Look back to the time of FDR. Learn the history so you can see how much we've lost during the past 100 years.
Sandra I am 84 and remember the past as you do.
And there is one thing that mystifies me. I am retired military, in or around 1963/1965. Although my income was meager, a little over $300 a month, I had to pay the alternative minimum tax
The 16th Amendment of 1913, created the income tax, and reimbursement for labor was not considered Income. The wealth of the upper class was because it was not wages for labor.
The IRS under the passage of tax laws, by congress, who are and always have been, bought by the wealthy, have modified taxes with exemptions, exclusions and credits not available to the middle class, and have worked around the legislation's definition of income, but requiring employers to deduct taxes, and then reporting them to the IRS, which then goes after the middle class for tax evasion, and seldom,, unless they pissed off the powers that be, the 10%
Like your lord and savior Trump, who paid no taxes in 4 out of 5 years, and only $750 the year he ran for president.
hack spam
I agree 100%. Here's a question for Elise Stefanik. Yes or no - do you agree with former President Donald Trump's statement that Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Miley is guilty of treason and should be executed? Yes or No - is this targeted bullying or harassment? Yes or No - is this a credible threat from someone who would have the power to do it should he get elected? Yes or no, is Donald Trump's statement free speech, harassment, or bullying, or does it depend on the context? Finally, since Donald Trump is the de facto head of the Republican Party, (loosely analogous, if you will, to the head of a university), do you think the powers that be in the Republican Party and the wealthy donors to the Republican Party should remove him from this position??? I wish one of the university presidents could have turned the tables on Stefanik with these question.
Excellent retorts! It wouldn't hurt for journalists & congressional Democrats to be asking such questions to Stefanik & other Republicans in the coming weeks.
Stephanik is highly selective in her criticisms plus she is funded by AIPAC. This shows how selective she is:
Stefanik is also one of Congress’ most vocal supporters of Donald Trump, who has pursued the support of wildly antisemitic white supremacists for years and geared up for his current campaign by meeting with a right-wing media personality named Nick Fuentes who is well known for touting his admiration of Adolf Hitler.
This is true. Stefanik is dangerous!
The college Presidents were coached to be as vague as possible and Elise took advantage of those evasive wish washy answers. I really was ashamed of them. Women who held the reins at the most influential universities in the country showed that they were really not up to the job. Anti semitic comments or conduct - out ! Anti Palestinian actions or comments -out ! Free Speech does not condone evil thoughts or actions. And Alex Jones has been allowed back on X ? We really have lost our moral compass.
I ponder did we ever truly have one...
We were at least trying as a nation & making some progress, but most of that progress is gone by now.
Brilliant. I agree, Stefanik and her ilk in congress should be shown the door! Tired of those hypocrites.
"shown the door" means voting en masse with a Bluenami.
So, there's a lot of work to do. Or else "Stefanik and her ilk" will control America.
No wonder Desantis et. al. put Orwell's 1984 on their banned books list.
Along with the Handmaid's Tale and the Grapes of Wrath.
I appreciate your sentiments and in fact agree Don, but this is a case of apples and oranges.
I suspect that the College professors would all answer your questions in a manner in which you and I agree,
But this is a different issue. The intellectual elite, have been influenced by the lies and omissions of Arabs, or at least Muslim Arabs, it is called Tagiyyah in Arabic.
They are inclined towards what they perceive as the underdog, and have been convinced by Muslims that they are the underdogs.
There was no such sentiment, until Bush declared war on Iraq, that he could be re elected, unlike his father who failed, because he won his war in 100 days.
Arabs and Muslims were quick to declare it a war on Islam, and the dolts on the left, like University profs and Democracy Now not only bit into the pie, but swallowed the whole thing
It didn't help that evangelicals like Lt Gen McChrystal, declared the war in Afghanistan a holy war (a Jihad in Arabic)
I am not so easily swayed. And thus probably forfeit my progressive status, per the ideology of these feckless dolts.
How about Orange Anti-Christ - much more fitting
Amen. I called him that a couple of years ago. What is the purpose of the Antichrist? It is to rip off all the bandaids, all the time.
I've been calling Benedict Donald the "Orange Antichrist" for 5 or 6 years now.
Good for you; the more, the better.
I second your sentiment Phil, and have thought of how I could use that, but since there is no Christ how can anyone be an antichrist. Antichrists have existed since the cult of Rome was founded, even Popes have been called the antichrist, and of course their is Mssr Toothbrush.
The whole narrative is tremendously skewed. No powerful figures are condemning the actual genocide of the Palestinians by Israel happening right now. When will we get past the grotesque propaganda that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism?
When Jewish students are attacked on campuses for simply being Jewish and the University Administration lets this happen that is intolerable anti semitism.
Look, like I said, the whole narrative is tremendously skewed. First, anti-zionism is not anti-Semitism. And the confusion feeds anti-Semitism. Until we can get the narrative straight (Israel is an imperialist nation that has stolen the Palestinians' land, backed by the "Western powers") there is no hope of straightening out the situation.
When Jewish students are attacked on campuses for being Jewish and the University administration does not come to their defense that is anti semitism and it is intolerable and that is what is happening at these elite campuses who receive massive amounts of money from Middle East donors with of course no strings attached. This is not complicated at all.
The Palestine Arts/literary Festival (not sure of the exact name) that took place on the Penn campus in September (but was not coordinated nor funded by the school) occurred in September. Many weeks prior to the Hamas attack on Israel and not at all related. It seems that Magill was vilified for even “allowing” this to happen. Meanwhile, the right wingers clutch their pearls about supposed leftist attacks on free speech forgetting about their outright tolerance/support of Nazi speakers at Berkeley a few years ago. The hypocrisy is astounding. I wish these women had stood their ground and not resigned despite these arrogant, rich donor threats. That would have been a powerful statement. I am quite certain that men in their same positions wouldn’t have stepped down so readily.
I obtained a masters degree from a Private University, back in 1972, and even back then there was a cadre of doltish Marxists, that were bent on making trouble.
It has only gotten worse. Berkeley is a den of snobbish, self congratulatory, immature and childish hypocrites. The champion equal rights, the rights of women for autonomy, then boycott speakers who dare call the suffocating abaya, chador, niqab and burga bee keeper suits, because they are demeaning and oppressive to woman, but that is alright with these dolts, because these are Muslim countries, and "everybody" knows that Muslims are persecuted peoples, despite the fact that they are the 2nd largest religious cult in the world and rule the Midast, the gulf, Iran, Iraq, Turkey Afghanistan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia,, North Africa and many countries in Africa
Then again we have Christians who are the majority in America crying persecution.
Then again I have to blame those who turned persecution into a world wide public relations tool, to manipulate emotions and politics.
Success breeds imitation. Now every group is persecuted and persecution that is valid, has lost its punch. Like the boy who cried wolf.
Now antisemitism being recognized as a clarion call to genocide of the Jews, it is relegated to the same category as racism, misogyny, homophobia. Instead of evoking outrage, it evokes yawns, dismissal and so what isms.
The toothpaste is out of the tube.
To be explicitly clear: those "boycotted" speakers incite hate openly; they were only not allowed to speak because the tiny hateful minority that invited them couldn't afford the security budget that university policies (which apply to all speakers/hosts) require.
No squeezing of tube -> no toothpaste.
And what about the dear professor at. The Law School who is giving voice White Nationalism and racism? Where was donor outrage? Where was Stefanik?
Attacking is different from speaking. Attacking is illegal and should be adjudicated. Speaking hate speech is not illegal and cannot be adjudicated.
But it can Barbara. The 1st Amendment does not enfranchise "free speech" nor does it bane Hate Speech. It simply places the restriction on congress and says that it shall not back laws that prohibit speech or assembly.
It does not restrict corporations, media, the internet, people, students, the university.
However corporations, universities, states, counties and municipalities can, without violating the 1st Amendment.
But even the Federal Government, congress and thus with a vested interest, promote the myth of free speech, Including Whitehouse.gov.
Point is that a university and a student union can, and do, censor speech all of the time. Call an abaya or chador or niqab or burqa, an assault on women, and find out how fast the university and the student union circumscribe your right to "free speech"
Thank you. Good to know
If I knew how to block you I would. You refuse even to think about the background and repeat (racist) nonsense.
Mike, Respectfully, the answer is not to block. Nothing will change if we don’t try and engage. Since October7th, I’ve followed my own advice on several Substacks, and, though the exchanges have been challenging and time-consuming, I’ve relished those moments when civility replaced adversity.
I wish I could give you a thousand likes!
Tim, Thank you for writing. Your reply is most appreciated.
yes, I agree with Tim.
You are right on, Barbara Jo: "though the exchanges have been challenging and time-consuming, I’ve relished those moments when civility replaced adversity."
The problem, though, is that while some Trump-supporters can engage in civil discourse, they can't break out of their MAGA trance. Only a massive voter turnout can dislodge the Republican party, but I fear the Trump-trance will continue until the Orange-One leaves this mortal coil.
Abraham, First, I would note I agree that “massive voter turnout” is critical if we expect to win elections up and down the ballot. Second, I would clarify, as displayed in forums such as this, that, despite agreement on a host of issues, Democrats remain alarmingly polarized on matters pertaining to Israel-Palestine. Accordingly, the dialogue I deem most critical is the one among ourselves.
Yes, the fractures in the Democratic coalition are seriously worrying and likely to draw down turnout, or even flip some blues to red.
Hopefully the Israel-Palestine divide will smooth over by next Nov.
But Dems need a UNIFYING issue or message, and right now I think that could be abortion. The Texas case has people up in arms all over the country, but can that outrage be sustained til Nov.
Many elections are decided by single issue voters so if abortion is the issue, and if a similarly dramatic case arises in the Fall, then that might overshadow other issues and be the catalyst for a Blue Wave.
Repubs won the Presidency (and the Supreme Court) with massive Evangelical "pro-life" support; so this time Dems could do the same thing in reverse. It's all very cynical, but that's the reality of modern American politics.
Also, strange as it seems, mega-superstar Taylor Swift is very pro-choice and now actively encouraging his mass of followers (especially young women coming into voting age) to register and vote out Republicans across the board. Her effectiveness is shown by the juvenile, obscene and even violent attacks on her by podcasters like Charlie Kirk and his followers. Taylor now has the power, and young white males are scared to death of her.
https://www.meidastouch.com/news/charlie-kirk-podcast-launches-22-unhinged-vile-attacks-against-taylor-swift
Marshall McLuhan, a Canadian media guru from the 1960s, predicted that celebrities would dominate politics in the future. Well we're in the future and celebrities like Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and of course TV Trump all did it, so why not celebrity Taylor. And she doesn't even have to run for office; she has a mass audience and she just has to get them registered and to the polls. Maybe she'll do "voting concerts" where her followers can register at the concert and maybe get "I'm Voting With Taylor" bracelets.
Whatever it takes, Trumpism & MAGA must be defeated in Nov. 2024
In the Democrat Party, the divisions are between human rights and anti-semitism. We in this party get caught up in semantics which is neither good nor bad, just problematic. It’s true that Israel is another Imperialist nation who conquered the Arabs and stole land and property in 1943. As it has moved further to the right, Netanyahu’s ruling body has become more and more dictatorial. Did Bibi know of the potential attack and not take it seriously as a reason to bomb Gaza into oblivion? Who knows? But over the generations and especially now with college and HS age students, they see the years of David v. Goliath savagery waged against the Palestinian people. They see the deaths of 10 Israelis followed by the deaths of 100 Palestinians. They read about the razing of ‘illegal’ villages, only to e replaced by Jewish kibbutzes. They read about the lack of water to Gaza and the Palestinian people and ask, why are Israeli citizens so inhumane? This generation has read and studied about the Holocaust. This generation of liberal young people hate antisemitism and White Nationalism. They tend to despise anything that dehumanizes other people. But they also understand that a people that have such a history of being killed, tortured, and displaced should not be so willing to decimate another people as the Israeli government and their Western allies are doing in what they feel are open air prisons in Gaza and the West Bank. If the divisions within the Democratic Party addressed and corrected, we will have to come to some agreement on how to define what is going on in Gaza, and how the US, as an ally, can be both an ally to Israel and a true advocate of peace, Palestinian humanity, and a two state Gaza.
Seems our leaders aren't listening to us. No billions for RW Netanyahu. Israelis in the streets don't trust him to do war and keep them safe. He is a con. I don't ether want to pay for Gaza genocide or Hamas mercenaries hired by Netanyahu. Makes the whole thing a lie with our tax dollars used to kill many for a RW agenda for more land and power.
you've stated the problems well, Danny.
I'm really not sure what the younger generations know or think; they seem to be living in another world from me (I'm 77).
But anti-status-quo, anti-war, etc. usually starts with the young; and this time they are playing out that role with their current anti-Israel protests.
But they are probably as fractured as the rest of the country, and I wasn't really joking about a mega-celebrity like Taylor Swift motivating a huge contingent of new voters to register and vote.
If that helps to end MAGA and Trumpism, then America can start to find some common core of values and address the many problems facing us all.
So many problems, and so much polarization, but Job Number One is to end Trumpism. The Dems are far from perfect, but Trump will lead the country into authoritarianism (just to keep himself out of jail) and that must be stopped.
I figured out how to block you.
Block me too please
Sure
I am done with you, no need to block.
Please tell us how to block, so we can block you.
Only an insecure fool bloc ks someone. You can stick your fingers in your ear, but that doesn't shut them up. I want to hear what others are saying, that way I can counter them.
We blocked hate speech for years, but then comes along the Champion of Hate Speech, DJT, and now all of that hate speech that has been welling up in the breasts of the deplorables, is now out in the open and freely sanctioned by the likes of Musk. I am hearing crap on TV, repeated by Journalists, anchors and hosts, That I have never heard in my life until Trump opened the flood gates, and now we can see what has been simmering below the surface for over 200 years (yes that long).
If we had recognized that there was a fire that melted lead, we might have been able to stop it before it became hot enough to melt copper and tin. But because of political correctness and touchy feelings, the simmering fire is becoming a wild fire, a smelter that will consume us all.
I don't think there will ever be agreement on the narrative. We would have had that by now. Forget the narrative.That's a sinkhole long wallowed in as each weighs in with history and resentments and calls for justice. as they see it, as we have seen on this forum. As Einstein said, supposedly, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."
At best we get enough agreement on a way forward out of this terrible situation.
I believe it will not be resolved by power alone.
No, there is a clear right and wrong here. Israel was created as an imperialist project by the Western powers. Einstein was right; continued imperialism will not solve the problem.
Einstein was right when he packed up his family in 1932 and got the hell out of Europe.
Problem today is: where do you go?
Complete nonsense. You remind me of Noam Chomsky. When asked whether Iran is a terrorist nation, he replies: Isreal is a terrorist nation, and so is the United States. How's that for thougtful analysis? By that reasoning, we never should have entered WW 2 in either theater!
Eff Noam Chomsky, many a progressive will defend him and adore him, because in many ways his their intellectual guru, he has infected the minds of students and professors.
There is this la ti da, dream among those infected with the Chomskyite version of Marx, all the world will be set right, if only their version of Marxism prevailed. Notice "his version" like religion there are as many versions of socialism as their are "Marxists".
Trouble with Marx and those who deify him, is that Marx saw man as an economic creature. unable to grasp the fact that economics is only a tool by which to attain power.
A good book, if you can find it, as it is out of print, is the New Class, ny Milovan Djilas, it is an incisvie look into the Ruling class of Communist Yugoslavia. Commmunism did not do away with a class structure, it just supplanted one ruling class for another.
The Tidewater Aristocracy, the planters of Virginia and the Carolinas, only joined the revolution (most were descendants of Royalists who fled Cromwell), and they had visions of being the new royalty, but that failed because the people had no intention of replacing British nobles, dukes and barons, with homegrown ones. So they resorted to surveillance (Committees of Public Safety) and propaganda (pamphlets by thinkers like Thomas Paine) and were successful, but had unintended consequences. The people now educated by the Rights of Man, were not about to stand for a new nobility, and they threatened a second revolution, thus our constitution.
Bravo! If I could put you in charge of the History Department at Harvard (or any other major university) I would! What you said about Marx is spot on. I would add to your thoughts on Chomsky the following. He is an authority on language. He knows exactly what he is doing by circumventing questions and re-directing the conversation to suit his purposes. He is a self-described anarchist, which is the poison at the heart of his intellectual errors, for no anarchist can be anything other than a fascist. Thanks for your great comments and book recommendation.
I'll take your comparison as a great compliment. Is anyone talking about Iran here? We're talking about Israel and the US. Your "logic" is anything but logical. Spare me the nonsense.
Your logic is laughable. I used Iran as an example. Shall I define 'example' for you? (I also included Israel and the US in the example, or didn't you notice?) Once again, you have proved yourself to be as big a charlatan as Chomsky is.
It doesn't matter even if there is a clear right and wrong because people, not to mention nation states, will not agree on such matters and can not be made to agree. The best you can get is people recognizing cooperation can improve outcomes for most /all. That was my point.
If you study the history you will see that Israel has no intention of cooperating. Never has had. Butterfies and unicorns will not fix this. Only a willingness to face the problem squarely, to get honest for once, can move us forward.
So your solution Mike is for the Jews to commit suicide, because that is the only way the Arabs can be satisfied, either that or the genocide of Jews.
It is in their sacred books, and the HAMAS Covenant.
BS propaganda. Who is Hamas but mercenaries paid to fight. No plan but Netanyahu's.
Jenny you are whacked out. So deep into the conspiracy that HAMAS are paid agents of Yahoo.
First they are Muslims, and I have proven that genocide of the Jews is a sacred obligation.
I'm sure that you didn't read it, I even quoted sacred Islamic text.
I will assume good faith, that in your minds eye all troubles in the world are secular politics.
They aren't. Religion is an ideology, and it is a fundamental part of one's Id, their identity, except for atheists, then again there are secular Christians, Muslims, Jews, that practice rituals, traditions, holidays because they are part of the culture in which they were reared.
So what is your answer? Undo the state of Israel? I don't think this is possible. I do think that if Israel can destroy Hamas and other similar terrorist groups and help the people in Gaza recover economically and create a reasonable government (like what the US and the Allies did in Germany and Japan after WW2) maybe real peace might occur. I do have some doubts that the present government in Israel is capable of this. My two cents...
Did I say I had a solution? But as James Baldwin said, "Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced". Until we get honest about Israel as the imperialist project of the Western powers nothing can be done.
Where did you get this shit, Israel is an imperialist project by the Western powers. No wonder the universities are so screwed up.
The state of Israel started by Zionists, like Theodore Herzl, who bought up land from the Bedouins, made the desert bloom, cleaned up the garbage dump of the Arabs called Jerusalem (as Mark Twain described). The Arabs were shamed by the Jews, as that useless piece of desert lay fallow and empty except for Bedouins for thousands of years, and then in 1948, tried to take back by force what the Jews had paid for with money, they lost, but they kept coming back again and again, like morons, the insane in 1956, 1967, 1973, 2006 and Oct 7th. Driven and motivated by their religion to kill the Jews and drive them off what they consider is Arab land.
Who said the universities did this analysis?
Bankers and British created Israel out of Arab lands. All Jews could have home and live in peace with the Arabs. They never asked the Arabs of course. They just did it. Isn't a success is it.
Wrong Judith. You are showing your antisemitism and gullibility.
European Jews, under the leadership of Theodore Herzl in the 1920's, bought land from Bedouins. Desert that had been useless and fallow for thousands of years. Mark Twain visited Jerusalem and found it a garbage dump
Herzl's Jews,took the land that they bought, turned into a garden, cleaned up Jerusalem, and the Arabs were both embarrassed and envious, and attacked Israel no sooner than it became a state, as consequence Israel, in self defense, took land as a buffer, as was it's right.
Einstein said that a sign of insantity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
So the insane Arabs came back in 1956,1967, 1973, 2006 and 2023, each time they lost, each time they also lost land. Israel occupied the Golan Heights, for self protection, it is high ground and it is from there that Syria has launched its aggressions.
The whole mess is of the Arabs own making, If they would have let the Jews have their own piece of land, their wouldn't be this problem.
But they can't because it conflicts with a sacred edict, to obliterate the Jews, haddith of al Bukhari.
It seems you have no knowledge of history prior to 1948. And your knowledge of history after 1948 ignores the fact that Israel is a secular democracy, not a fascist theocracy relying on terrorism as its sole form of foreign policy and subjugation as its core domestic policy. This is not to suggest that Israel hasn't made mistakes or that its present leader is sane or that Israel is secular enough.
Bravo James, what I have been saying, but with history.
See my response above yours
Until Bibi decided to move further to the right and the Zionist Party gained more power. The Israeli people dot want that either. But Hamas did no one at favors, did they?
But how any Palestinians will have to die first?
According to the RW in Israel and here....kill all of them. Let's not look into the facts just bomb, bomb, em off the earth. And who is doing genocide? Cut all funds, weapons and military to the area. No more killing in the Holy Land.
When did any of this land belong to Palestinians and, for that matter, when was the term "Palestinian" first coined? Where does history record a "Palestinian people"? There is none other than the Jews who were derided by the British as "bloody Palestinians". Today's Palestinians are Arabs with no distinct ethnicity.
Jews today are celebrating Chanukah which celebrates the re-dedication during the second century BC of the Second Temple in Jerusalem. Quite a history!
"The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.” – Interview with Zuheir Muhsin, a member of the PLO Executive Council, published in the March 31, 1977 edition of the Dutch Newspaper “Trouw”.
Now, could you please present some kind of legitimate proof that there is any such thing as “Palestinian soil”?
I agree with your argument that there may not be "Palestinian soil" but we are still left with the reality that there are Palestinian people.
So where will they live?
I'm an optimist (barely, these days) and hopefully see an international "rebuilding" of Gaza into a modern democratic state.
Mike--- you are off and wrong--- they are spitting on kids who have Jewish stars or yamulkes... that's not only about Israel, that's anti-Jew.
AFAIAC, fuck the anti-semites!
You also have a skewed idea about Israel, but no matter...
I agree with your comments but you accept those types of actions against Muslims. They are equally bad. Muslims are also being attacked, blacklisted, doxed and losing jobs.
They are.?Show me, I am from Missouri, if you mean Muslims who support Jihad and terrorism, or come up with excuses for the likes of HAMAS, then they have it coming, but outside of one deranged MAGAt who killed a kid, Show me some examples.
Muslims who support Jihad, HAMAS, Iran, Hezbollah are the enemies of a secular democracy and are a threat.
Not all of any group are haters is realistic. All Jews are not Arab, Muslim, hating. Terrorist groups exist as mercenaries and are paid today. Stop the bull crap and killing or millions of you are about to die. War and oil is a profit deal. Death for power and wealth. Got it. Not just Gaza, Palestines, etc are to die. You are all collateral damage for an agenda of the few. Stop it. You think RW Netanyahu and his generals give a crap about Israelis? They showed you on Oct 7th they didn't and you aren't safe.
We Americans were lied to and attacked on 911. Think our leaders cared? There was a stand down of our military too. RW Israel was happy to go to war in Iraq. We died and suffered for what in that 20yr war? Cost us and Iraq many billions and death.
I DO NOT ACCEPT so where do you get that from??? I run sports teams in NY NY with all nationalities, incl Pals and Muslims!!!
You might not accept it but it's happening. in the wake of Hamas' Oct. 7 attack on Israel, and the Israeli military's assault on Gaza, many American Jews, Arabs and Muslims are living in fear as they face a wave of hate-fueled threats and violence.
The Justice Department is taking steps to protect — and reassure — those communities. Garland has directed U.S. attorneys and the FBI to work closely with state and local law enforcement to keep these communities safe, and to determine what additional support they need.
That's from the Justice department.
Women, POC and LGBT are also living in fear, not because of HAMAS but because of fellow citizens.And our government is not doing jack shit and won't.
An upvote for me Neal. Well said.
So based on you’re requirements, the US is an imperialist nation backed by NATO.
But how does one describe Saudi Arabia or Syria or Iran. Which one is not imperialist. How about Egypt. India was once not long ago.
Careful who you call imperialist. Very slippery slope.
The dude has been infected with the lies and propaganda of the media he pays attention to, and is unbothered by history and facts, just like the MAGAts, he has his talking points and will stay with them. Otherwise he will have to admit that he has been a fool, and has let others do his thinking for him.
Oh how these words get thrown around; "imperialist" "fascist" "freedom"
Here's a helpful book about the abuse of language:
https://neofascism.substack.com/p/the-tyranny-of-words-by-stuart-chase
Chase asks: Are people thinking about the same thing when they use words like “fascism,” “liberty,” “capitalism,” “socialism,” and “freedom”? Or has our failure to agree on the meaning of these words allowed them to become weapons for politicians to further divide the nation in pursuit of their own political goals? Do these words "short-circuit thinking" and undermine communication?
The book was written in 1938 but totally applies to today.
In the history of the world, there has never been a recognized state of Palestine. Your support of a terrorist organization speaks volumes about your supposed non-antisemitism.
You're not only a liar, you're a supporter of genocide. Block
Israel wouldn't allow it. Hamas is a mercenary group. Enemy of Palestine and Israel. Kill each other for power of a few RW.
I think you may find that Palestine evolved from Philistia which was located
in the Gaza strip. But that is an assumption by some historians.
The Kingdoms of Israel and Judah were constantly fighting the Philistines from Philistia over millennia.
The Jews returned (drawn) to their land in 1948, and this was prophesied in the Old Testament (not the date). It was not stealing from the Palestinians; the Palestinians were squatters in Israels land.
There was no kingdom of Israel. It was created in 1948.
Whoa Mike you speak out of ignorance (meaning a lack of knowledge)
Theodore Herzl, toured Europe for Jews willing to return to home base, Jerusalem, They BOUGHT land from the Bedouins. They then transformed a desert into an oasis, and cleaned up Jerusalem, which Mark Twain in the 19th Century called a garbage dump.
The Arabs looked up Israel with shame, embarrassment (they occupied the land for 2,000 years, and it lay fallow and desert all of that time, including using Jerusalem as a trash dump.
And in envy they launched a joint attack on the Jews, to drive them out and take the land that they worked so hard to make productive.
They lost and the Jews, rightfully claimed the land that their enemies launched on them, as theirs, if nothing else for protection against another attack.
Yet not having learned a lesson, like the insane which keep repeating mistakes over and again trying to find a solution, the attacked in 1956, 1967, 1973, 2006 and October 7th, and each time lost more land, which Israel needs to protect their borders.
The Arabs call 1948 the Nakba, catastrophe, but it is one that they brought on themselves.
It is the same as Gaza, Israel has a nest full of vipers next door, who are dedicated to wiping them off the face of the earth (genocide) and Israel has to defend itself, because HAMAS has bragged that they are a nation of martyrs, and will keep coming back time and again.;
When you see a funeral for a Jihadi a terrorist, and you see weeping and wailing, that is their mothers, other wise Muslims consider them martyrs and they celebrate martyrs, not moan and wail.
That is true and is well publicized but when Muslim students are attacked, it is equally intolerable but nobody seems to care about it.
Not true... many do object and are outraged!!!!
They sure don't get any publicity or congressional hearings about it.
You are sure of what? Congress is only holding hearings on Hunter Biden, and they don't get publicity because there is nothing to publicize.
The media loves a good story, it is their lifeblood, if it bleeds it leads.
That is why there is nothing in the media, because there is nothing for the media to report, if there were they would be on it like flies on feces.
And proof that Muslim students are attacked. Any firebombing of their quarters, any smearing of epithets on the walls, any doxxing or physical threats of violence?
Show me or shut up.
Don't know why your aren't aware of this. In Vermont 3 Muslim students were shot.
A truck — rented by Accuracy in Media, a longtime conservative activist group — shows the names and faces of students who are members of campus organizations that signed a letter holding the Israeli government "entirely responsible for all unfolding violence" following Hamas's attack in southern Israel on Oct. 7.
The signs label them "Harvard's leading anti-Sethe faces and names of Arab, Muslim and Palestinian students at Columbia have appeared on trucks circling the campus as part of a spate of doxxing incidents.
Doxxing is when personal details, sometimes including addresses or contact information, is shared publicly.mites."
This at Columbia: the faces and names of Arab, Muslim and Palestinian students at Columbia have appeared on trucks circling the campus as part of a spate of doxxing incidents.
The Maryland Council on American-Islamic Relations is taking action to help protect Muslim, Arab and Palestinian Americans.
The action comes after the organization has seen a surge in reports of violence and hate
crimes since the Israel-Hamas war began, including the recent shooting in Burlington, Vermont, that left three Palestinian students injured. The assault is now being investigated as a possible hate crime.
Despite American academia’s reputation as strongholds of social justice consciousness, Muslim students on campus are frustrated by the acceptance of Islamophobia from school administrations and fellow students. Experiences like Omar’s are compounded by constant slights such as the lack of spaces to pray, a deficit of chaplains as well as meal and exam schedules that don’t accommodate Muslims’ religious needs.
As authorities announced they had opened a hate-crime investigation into a report of a hit-and-run that injured an Arab Muslim student at Stanford University, the student called on people on Sunday to “collectively denounce hatred, bigotry, and violence” amid rising reports of hate crimes against Arabs, Jews and Muslims in the United States.
A black SUV hit Stanford student Abdulwahab Omira on the Palo Alto, Calif., campus before 2 p.m. Friday, according to university officials. The driver of a Toyota 4Runner was reported to have made eye contact with the victim, accelerated toward him and struck him, then shouted “f--- you and your people” while driving off, according to a news advisory from Stanford’s public safety department. Omira described the driver as a White man in his mid-20s, university officials said.
How would they know unless a complaint has been issued. You just assume a lot.
There were lots of complaints!
Yes. Those statements by the staff are reckless and outrageous!
When will we get past the grotesque propaganda that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism?
As you are using it you sure sound like one. https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-terrorists-have-genocide-their-hearts-they-say-so-themselves-opinion-1834360
You are correct Daniel and as you know I believe that Israel has not only a right to exist, that , previous to Yahoo and the emergence to power of the Orthodox Right wing parties, like the Unity party, Israel was actually a democracy that put America to shame, And Israel has a right to defend itself, but when it comes to the orthodox, right wing and their settlers, if Zionism includes them, then count me out.
I've expended a lot of my historical knowledge and my knowledge of Islam, to defend Israel, but I find the modern Zionists of the religious right in Israel, unbearable and even bear the responsibility for Oct 7th.
Bibi knew this was coming, the leaked Israeli intelligence report says so, he had to know, but like Bush who also knew 9/11 was in the works, and by my reckoning knew the date, that is why he was safe in Florida readin My Pet Goat. What he and Bibi didn't know was the full extent of the terrorism. Bush didn't know that it included the WTT's and Bibi didn' now it meant the massacre of festival goers and the kidnapping of Israelis, if he did then he should be shot
Am Israel Chai!!! and that includes the Jewish State!!!
I stand with Israel.
I stand with the democracy of Israelis not RW Netanyahu.
https://carriekaufman.substack.com/p/anti-zionism-is-not-antisemitism
What you miss is that antisemitism is pervasive. Hamas wants you dead.
It's equally true that the Israeli government want to kill the Palestinians.
Bull shit. Read the HAMAS charter, it is a blue print for genocide of the Jews, hell read Islamic scripture, like the haddith of al Bukhari, which is copied word for word from al Buhari. Sahih 1395 and 1296, book 56 haddith 139, al Bukhari, both HAMAS and Islamic scripture calls for the genocide of the Jews. There is nothing in Zionism or Israel, much less the TeNACH (OT) that calls for the genocide of Arabs.
That is complete bull. War is hell. Your antisemitic collective subconscious is showing.
This isn't war, it's slaughter. Over 7,000 children killed by Israeli bombs. The worst bombing since WWII in a highly populated, defenseless area.
So William.; You are quoting HAMAS with those figures, But of course you believe the lies of HAMAS.
I guess murdering Jewish children would be more palatable to you and yours
Wait they already brutally murdered and burned alive, Jewish children on Oct 7th,but by your lights that is only justice isn't it? Jewish lives weighed against Arab lies? Jews don't have a chance in the mentality of dolts.
I'm quoting what news agencies are telling us. Have you seen the videos of the destruction in Gaza? Over 60% of the buildings have been destroyed or damaged. You seem to believe what you want to believe.
They call it mowing the grass or thinning the population but it's not bull. Read some of the comments from Netanyahu and this right wing government. They aren't hiding their feelings. I'm anti Zionism but not anti semitic. You are allowing yourself to be blinded when it comes to Israel.
Oh but your championing the Jew hatred of Islam, you are indeed antisemitic.
You see I am, according to the ADL, an antisemite, because I am anti Zionist, but not anti Israel., and I know that Muslims lie in the defense of Islam, and lying in defense of Islam is a sacred requirement, the punishment of failure it to burn in hell, with your flesh ripped off every morning. You see I am an Islamic Scholar, albeit an infidel, but I know so much, that by their lights I am murtadd, an apostate.
My antiZionism is restricted to Bibe and other orthodox right wing, especially the settlers who harass and murder Arabs, to drive them off their land, so they can build Kibbutz. That I do not sanction, what I do sanction is the pre Bbib Israel, a secular democracy, which you will never ever find in a Muslim nation, what you find in a Muslim nation is suppression and submission of women, and the death of atheist, polytheists and gays.
Iran is more "civilized" it claims there are no gays in Iran, that is because if got, they are forcibly subjected to surgery, sexual reassignment surgery. A solution I am sure that the Christians would like to perform on gays, maybe not though, they are seriously trans phobic, and believe that the transgendered wear dresses to expose themselves in women;s restrooms, Ignorant m effers think that women's rest rooms have urinals.
I'm telling you what Israeli leaders have said.
The war against HAMAS in no way fits the definition of Genocide by the UN charter on genocide, but the intentions of Muslims and HAMAS does
Israel is waging a war of self defense against an enemy which wished to obliterate them
that and Free Palestine from the River to the Sea is a call to Genocide
From the Preamble to the HAMAS charter:
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
From Article 7 of the same , which is a copy and paste of a sacred Islamic text, the haddith of al Buhari (sahih 1295 and 1296, book 56,haddith 139 al Bukhari
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
That my friend is a call to genocide, pure genocidal intentions, Israel is only trying to protect istself from real genocide, the Jews have already been through one, actually more than one, the pogroms, the evictions of Edward I, and Ferdinant and Isabella of Spain.
The Arabs want nothing less than for the MidEast to be Judien Frei, and that my friend is genocide.
Thank you.
Anti-Zionism (working for a homeland for Jews) is exactly anti-semitism! As for "genocide", that was attempted when Hamas attacked Israel, an attempt to destroy Israel and do the work of its Charter, the death of every Jew world-wide. It said it would repeat this again and again until it accomplished that goal. It was the most destructive pogrom since the Holocaust. Israel did not seek "genocide" as if that was its goal, it would have exterminated every Palestinian Arab in Israel, about 2-million in an action that would be similar to that Hitler took in Germany to eliminate the Jews. Israel's response to destroy Hamas is an action of self defense. Hamas hiding behind its civilians, using them as human shields makes for greater civilian deaths but is a war crime on the part of Hamas. Did you show any concern over the hundred of thousands dead in Syria, or the dead in Yemen and Darfur? Of course not! Arab on Arab killing is fine regardless of the slaughter. Arabs killed by Jews in a war of defense will make your head explode though.
Easy Wendy. I have been defending Israel here and on Thom Harmann and Quora.
There are degrees of anti ZIonism and my anti Zionism is not at all an attempt to destroy Israel, although I recognize that most anti Zionism is.
Mine is restricted to Bibi, the Likkud, the the religious right in Israel, that harass and murder Arabs, with IDF looking on, to drive them out of their homes, so they can build Kibbutz.
I get a lot of shit for defending Israels right to exist and defend themselves and admire their citizens and culture for turning a wasted piece of desert into a prosperous nation.
Not all antizionists are anti semities there are a few of us, who have historical knowledge, not bullshit propaganda, and have the capacity for critical reasoning skills.
If I had two choices and two only, one was to live in a secular democracy as Israel is, at least for the time being, and in an Islamic country, I would take Israel,for I would last barely a day in an Islamic country.
And I do not buy Arab propaganda, and neither should anyway, the em effers basically own Exxon Mobil, for whom Trump wants to drill drill drill., and upon whom the Arabs have showered billions.
Apparently a long response of mine didn’t go through so this will be shorter. I fully agree with much of your post and especially on Bibi, the Likkud, and religious right. Leaders of the Mossad and military will likely resign after the war is over, accepting responsibility for the dreadful lack of preparedness and response on October 7th. Unlike them, Bibi will have to be forced out. He still has not accepted any responsibility even though the major responsibility is his. I hope to see him jailed.
I agree. Bibi is a war criminal and a traitor to his people, Israeli intelligence and thus Bibi, have known about this operation for years, but ignored it because Bibi has his own motives.
America is trapped in a dilemma,For one we can't abandon an ally to genocide, and that is what the Arabs have in store. They tried in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1972, 2006 and now in 2023.
HAMAS misjudged Israel, because of their success with Gilad Shalit, they thought that taking hundreds of hostages would give them the upper hand and a chance to wipe the Jews off the face of the Mideast
However Yahoo is to Israel as Trump is to America..
The world in reverse. Block
As a retired teacher, I can understand the importance of allowing young people to give voice to their ideas and philosophies. What I cannot accept is that these so-called higher institutions for learning depend so much on donors and pander to their every whim. If a university or college is not allowed to run their school without donors telling them what to do, those same universities and colleges begin to cave to these donors. Should these presidents condemn genocide of anyone? Yes, of course they should! Should the major donors have reacted so brashly? No, they should have voiced their disagreement and then allowed the presidents to do their jobs. The students at these universities and colleges are doing what they have a need to do. Give voice to their ideas, philosophies and opinions. It is up to the professors and staff to help guide these students, to teach them about the history of the Jewish people, Hamas, Palestine, the Middle East, the Holocaust, the World Wars and the cultures of all different groups of people. If students are screaming for genocide, those students need to be addressed. They need to understand what hate speech is and how far society can go before that type of speech is considered dangerous. I have always believed students need to express themselves, but I also feel it is teachers and parents that should question and guide students to understand the world around them.
The problem Peggy is that it is the very professors for whom you advocate that are brainwashing, yes brain washing the students. I have Masters and most of it was pure ideological bull, or corporate propaganda. The purpose of which was to produce a conditioned product who sought the masters approval. I graduated with Highest Honors, and with Honors for my Masters. And the only thing I value was my statistics teacher who had us read How to Lie with statistics.
The most important course I had in high school was touch typing.
I hate typing. Never good at it. My twin was a whiz. She became a secretary. I worked in research labs.
I will always be grateful for the opportunity to study three foreign languages and their literature in HS. It taught me to be tolerant of other cultures; that we all bring something to the table.
You assume students who are of age 18 and more can't think for themselves when confronted with another person's like a teacher's opinion? Students are smart or they wouldn't be there. I did. I had a professor who wanted no females in science. I stayed in his class regardless.
Apples and oranges Judith. Sure there are legions of students who can think for themselves,
But when looking at the mess on campus today, when anti semites fall under the sway of so called leftist professors and Arab propagandists then, not so much anymore..
When Berkeley students threaten the university to cancel a speaker because he dare tell the truth about Islam, and calls the Abaya, Chador, Niqab, Burga bee keeper suits. It is apparent that they have gone off the rails.
The Motto in universities seems to be now, Free Speech for me, but not for thee.
Judith please don't personalize the impersonal, Which is what you did by injecting your self into the conversation.
This is America and students are over 18 yrs old. If they vote and go to war they are treated like you with an adult brain. It is rather arrogant to believe only "older you" have the right answers. Only you are right about their "bad" actions. How do you know what is going on at all universities? They don't want to use their tuition money to pay for certain speakers they have a right to protest.
Their speech is being silenced on Israeli Hamas War events. They are not anti-semitic protesting genocide and oppression of any people. I would have protested in Dayton, Ohio Clinton peace talks when Madeline Albright asked the students to go to war in Iraq for Israel. They yelled NO. Dying on foreign soil for another country...I think not.
Of course 911 happened and she got her wish. Strange eh? Now it is happening again with Iran, Gaza, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria....everyone (Muslims and Hamas) are out to kill them.
They should be RW Netanyahu...ya go kill em all? When they grow up they will kill us all bull. Kill all those mothers and children. Everyone even American students want us dead! That is good? I think the students are better than that.
Judith it is not arrogance but biology. The male brain is not fully developed until in their 20's.
Young folk, and I was young once, act on impulse and emotions, more so than arrogant old folk like me
I see red when I see people misuse and do violence to the word genocide. The constant misuse renders the world meaningless, like the boy who cried wolf.
The only genocide in the Mideast, is that of the intention of Muslims.
Preamble to HAMAS covenant. Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
And the slogan "Free Palestine from the River to the Sea", that is a distinct call to genocide
And how about this one from sacred Islamic Text AND article 7 of the HAMAS covenant
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem). That is a word by word quote from sacred Islam text, the hadith of al Bukhari, sahih 1295 and 1296, book 56, hadith 139 al Bukhari
I am as disgusted with the self indulgent, self righteous ignorant professors and students as I am with the Zionists and right wing religious right settlers.
Now tell me again about Genocide? Or is your mind closed.
BS. I've read some of those studies about brain development. No real numbers or graphs just general opinions. One just had photos of all the workers doing research at the university. No real results. I worked in NY State and NIH research and publications had to have facts not general thoughts to publish papers. They did social research on drugs and alcohol along with biochemical papers. Statistics and probability results.
GOP oligarchy seem to be anti young wanting to mind control even the heads of the university and professors.
They are very anti knowledge and science. Fascists do that. It is propaganda.
You feel they are beyond you? Maybe they should study how some people even at advanced age act like children educated or not. Spoiled brats. Others wise. Professors and students seeking knowledge and conflict discussion is a good thing. Violence is not. They write papers and inform the rest of our society.
Successful societies had great libraries and learned persons to help them. Ignorance is not a good thing for the world. The burning of the advanced libraries of Egypt was a great loss to the world. The Roman Empire put the world back 400 yrs destroying knowledge, culture and others religions. The barbarians hungry and desperate came over the mountains and burned Rome to the ground.
You know what genocide is when it happens to your people. Not when it happens to your "perceived enemies". I am on the side of peace and justice for all. The Israeli people in the streets protesting Rwers are who I agree with.
Your opinion and you are entitled to it
I am sorry that I triggered you.
Not happening with my public university teachers. Master courses either.
Then William, that is when it becomes necessary to weed out those professors who do not put the students and learning before their donor's wishes. If in a university, students are being brainwashed, then it stops being a university and becomes a sold-out propaganda machine. Our students go to university first to seek knowledge, but also to examine different ideologies, debate opinions, and discover their path in life. It concerns me to hear that these students are being brainwashed! What is the propaganda they are being fed?
Teachers who allow themselves to be manipulated or coerced or ‘directed’ to teach a certain topic a certain way, have no business teaching. Therein lies the problem. Everyone is bought and paid for in order to control the narrative. Peggy is absolutely correct. It’s not brainwashing unless it doesn’t agree with “my” narrative. Wow.
Sometimes it’s a matter of survival. If they don’t follow the dictates of the donors or state government, they’re out of a job. Think of the many classes that explore multiculturalism and DE&I which can no longer be taught in places like TX and FL.
My son is a tenured professor, and has been teaching for over 20 years, he loves it, but he teaches what he learned, in other words how he was nurtured, and that has lead his line of inquiry
As did I in my 37 years. But I also learned, changed, adapted and would share with my students this evolution. That’s what I always loved about education...the evolution of thought when new facts arrived through dialogue or debate.
Provided dialogue or debate is allowed.
Ask Bill Maher, with whom I have many, many issues, what happened to his speaking engagement at Berkeley, because he referred to the abaya, the chador, the niqab and Burqa as bee keeper suits, sure pissed off the Saudi's and Emirates who are huge donors to chosen universities, who in return fill students heads with pro Arab and anti Jew propaganda.
Now schools have become a political football in this game of power.
They put themselves there Steve, starved for money they depend upon it, and one of their biggest donors are the Saudi's.
I agree 100%. We’re already seeing the influence of billionaires on law schools: Koch Brothers at James Madison, and other conservative billionaires on trying to influence religion and curriculums at at prestigious universities.
It’s a slippery slope when billionaires start packing the boards and senior level staff of universities, not unlike what DeSatan is doing in Florida. Suddenly, education becomes political which in itself is a bigger problem than we are experiencing today.
Suddenly, universities aren’t a place where all perspectives and ideas are debated and discussed. And history and sciences are taught based on imperial data and facts. They become indoctrination centers by the same people who have been manipulating and shaping government policy for their own purposes for decades.
What is happening at universities is horrendous when students call for genocide, but several things come to mind.
1. How do you regulate free speech without creating even more issues? it’s only a short distance between speech laws and bad government actors using these laws for nefarious purposes and to stifle legitimate speech.
2. Harvard has an undergraduate student body of 7,200. I saw no more than a few hundred protesting. And there wasn’t any violence, as opposed to the MAGA mob that stormed the Capitol on J6th. Or the white nationalists marching in Charlottesville in 2017.
3. Are we to assume that the campus is the only place where college students discuss and disseminate information and ideas? As though the internet, social media and other places including places of worship aren’t indoctrinating the students in hate or misinforming them with false assumptions and lies.
Once again, we have a spectacle of overreacting and overreaching by the wealthiest among us; the media, and other special interest groups who never miss an opportunity to create more chaos where none exists. And if past experience is any indication of future outcomes and results, then let’s just say, this won’t end well for anyone; especially the students, free speech and higher education.
That is exactly right. A country where the mega wealthy no longer hide in the shadows when demanding politicians their will be done starts looking like Russia. Remember Trump’s sympathy for Putin. We should be up in arms given the decline in democracy in this country.
I said this for years. We are an oligarchy. We just refuse to say it. SCOTUS and Citizens United proved this point. It’s no longer ‘dark’ money. We all know from where it originates and where it goes.
The mechanism which should be noted - and which had not previously been a factor in stories about angry donors - is the threat of *rescinding* donations that had already been pledged ($100M at UPenn, which is a small - but significant - portion of their $21B+? endowment); typically a donation is refused in the opposite fashion, e.g. Sackler money being returned...
Well stated.
Very few college students go to church or synagogue, though I suspect that Muslims go to masjid, and pray in rugs in dorms. Muslims cling to their religion even more than Jews and Christians, with Jews it is mostly tradition (like the song in Fiddler on the Roof)
Secular Muslims are few and far between, for they know very well the penalty for apostasy, which is death. There were incidents in the US, one I recall in Arizona, where an apostate Muslim was murdered by an assassin sent from Pakistan or Bangladesh.
Lost in all of this is the question - who is calling for genocide of Jews? Any call for genocide of any group of people is abhorrent. And I am not aware of a single call for genocide of Jews on any university campus in the US. But a *real life genocide is actually occurring* in Gaza. Does anyone care for those children? They are being blown to bits while the lawmakers here are arguing over something that’s not even a reality.
In the past few days, when commenting on the photo of a large group of Palestinian men stripped of their clothes, the Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem, Arieh King, said this: "They are not human beings and not human animals; they are subhuman and that is how they should be treated...bury them alive."
I find it interesting that more than one official in the right-wing government of Israel has, prior to October 7, referred to Hamas as an "asset."
In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Israeli Army Radio that Netanyahu's "strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking … even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah."
Zionism is anti-Judaism. I encourage fellow Americans to try to understand this. Make no mistake, the leaders of the current Israel vastly prefer Trump over any Democrat. This is why they are so tight with the right-wing Christian Zionists here.
Mass killing as it is happening in Gaza today is anti-Judaism. I will add my voice to those who want to speak for and defend genuine Judaism, the Torah, the Prophets.
"Jewish religious leader reveals how he feels about Israeli aggression in Gaza" Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FNtMV2i8-8
Thomas, the Jews of all nations who endorse Trump and Bibi are religious fanatics. They supported Trump because the religious Christian right (the ones who will celebrate the final destruction of the Jews come the Rapture) supports both Israel (for the time being) and Trump; and because they erroneously believe that Trump and his band of fascists would protect them. The majority of Israelis and Americans are not religious, much less religious fanatics. Both nations are secular democracies, and struggling desperately to keep it that way.
After the Terrorists from Gaza, slaughtered, up front and personal, 1,200, burned babies alive, raped women and you object them being called Animals Thomas?
And yes I too blame Bibi, for this. I also suspect that he too knew it was coming, but not the details. The man is a self aggrandizing traitor, a clone of Trump.
Please go back and read / understand the context. The Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem was referring to a photo of Palestinian men of Gaza stripped of their clothes. None of these men can be proven to have attacked on October 7, or if they were even Hamas. For the Deputy Mayor -- a public official -- to declare them "subhuman" reflects on something horrible in his person.
You've exposed your persona many times. Not the government. 2 + 2 does not equal 22.
Thanks for exposing yourself TWICE in the same thread. When you have no truth to stand on, baseless insults are your only “defense.” True Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship the same Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. Zionists worship nothing but power.
Dr Who, the Muslims do not worship the same god as you. Allah is a contraction of al Lihah, the moon god, which Arabs worshiped in the jalihiliah (the time before Muhammad). They believe that Mary (Miriam) was impregnated by the angel Gabriel, who appeared before her as a very attractive and shiny man (hence seduction)
I do wish people would spare us of their proselytizing, There is no creator of the sky (heavens) and earth. they all evolved, slowly, over billions of years
And Zionists don't worship nothing but power, that is pure truth hatred, the crap that was printed by the Tsars secret police as Protocols of Learned Elders of Zion.
Is this what happens to minds of people, exposed to public education.
Your stuff comes straight from Aryan Nations and it's ilk.
40 years ago or more, I corresponded with some stupid dolt, who murdered a Jewish professor by shooting him in the back of the head. I wanted to know what went on the mind of these idiots.
It was the same bullshit that you spout, that Zionists only want power.
Congrats on being a tool and a fool.
Thanks. Your ignorance is remarkable. Good luck worshipping whatever deity you hold true.
Israeli "genocide" is an antisemitic tell. Some Palestinians are Hamas, Islamic Jihad and are war criminals. More than 2,000,000 Israeli Arabs, were attacked on October 7 and are "Palestinians" and stand with Israel. Some are Christians and others.
How do your people come up with this bs? And HOW DO YOU BELIEVE IT?! Boggles the mind...please stop digging your own grave.
Let me further "expose" myself and answer your questions with another question: "What do decades of BRUTAL occupation do to the minds of the occupiers?"
Thomas, you seem not to remember that Israel is a tiny country and the number of Jews anywhere at any time is miniscule compared to the number of non-Jews, especially the sects dedicated to the murder of all Jews. The multi-nation sponsored creation of Israel was not an occupation. The violence that ensued was a result of terrorist activity designed to force the Jews to leave Israel. This continues to this day. Ask yourself what the terrorists will do with the land once the Jews leave. They have only one thing to offer: another Iran, or Syria, and so on. You would not want to live there.
Only Israel gets billions in aid from America and Europe.
I am well aware that the land size of the current Israel is about the same as the state of Massachusetts. Israel is one of the top 10 arms sellers in the world and has supplied weapons and know-how to many genocidal regimes such as Pinochet's Chile, Guatemala's (Mayan genocide), Rwanda, Sri Lanka and others.
This continues to this day.
I am extremely careful in my use of the word "Jew." It is a person -- regardless of race or ethnic background -- who accepts and practices the Torah, and it shows to the world in the way that they live. As a non-Jew, I have to concern myself with the seven Noahide laws -- and this I try to do with the help of HaShem.
In July 1947, Rabbi Yosef Tzvi Dushinsky, Chief Rabbi of the Jerusalem-based Edah HaChareidis, declared to the United Nations his "definite opposition to a Jewish state in any part of Palestine". (Torah observant Jews had been living in what is Palestine for centuries. There were Jewish communities all over the Muslim world.)
Chomsky couldn't have said it better. You share his logic: Israel sells arms to genocidal regimes. Israel is a genocidal regime. Obfuscation, circumvention, evasion, immoral equivalence, lies. There is no inclusive definition of the word "Jew". That's why anyone can fit the description for the purposes of scapegoating, depending on who does the scapegoating. It mattered not to the Third Reich whether a "Jew" was an atheist or a Christian convert. You might also check the Protocols of the Most Learned Elders of Zion for additonal information. Whatever you do, it is not dependent on "HaShem" (another of your mis-defined concepts dating back to antiquity and continuing to this day). Yes, we all know about the religious Jews who objected to the founding of the modern state of Israel (and now seek to replace its democracy with theocracy). Such zealots are on the same level as Evangelicals who can't wait for the Rapture so that the "Jews" will be destroyed for good. Keep playing Chomsky if you like. It doesn't work with me.
Allow me point out your biggest misconception: "and now seek to replace its democracy with theocracy." Nothing could be farther from the truth, at least not for the True Torah adherents from the Satmar community. They want nothing to do with nationalism and government, and would be very happy with an Israel run by secular Palestinians.
I am very aware of orthodox religious zealots who have no problem with the idolatry known as nationalist Zionism.
There's a great podcast done by Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro -- "Committing High Reason." As you say, "It mattered not to the Third Reich whether a "Jew" was an atheist or a Christian convert. " And Zionist Israel, as Rabbi Shapiro points out, uses the same definition of a Jew as the Third Reich's.
You were not exposing yourself, but your question was based on assumptions.
Israel are not occupiers of their own land. Are you an occupier, by your logic you are, and a brutal occupier at that. Just ask the real Americans, the ones who live on reservations, just ask the American Descendants of Slaves (ADOS) they are not here of their own volition, They are here because their ancestors were considered draft animals.
What was evil in the 17th to 19th centuries -- I would argue -- is even more evil in the 21st.
Check it out. Hamas and its allies murdered almost everyone. Most Israeli Arabs support a two state solution.
Bullshit. Hamas Terrorists Have Genocide In Their Hearts. They Say So Themselves https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-terrorists-have-genocide-their-hearts-they-say-so-themselves-opinion-1834360
You've exposed yourself.
Clearly now, it appears so does the IOF. We have heard the Israeli Govt, Second Nakba, raze Gaza to rubble, human animals, etc. The IOF are armed to the teeth by the Western world. It is also ignorant to bypass the fact that it was Bibi Netanyahu who allowed money to flow into that region. He wanted a Hamas, to counter the PA and Fatah, so there would be no stable Palestinian Agency to be able to come to the table for establishing two States.
Like the first Nakba, the Arabs have brought this upon themselves.
This old man knows history, not the bullshit ginned up in universities.
The Jews bought land from the Bedouins, made the desert bloom, cleaned up the garbage dump the Arabs left of Jerusalem, and the Arabs were shamed and envious and tried to genocide the Jews in 1948, they lost, but like idiots kept coming back in 1956, 9167, 1973, 2006 and Oct 7, only to get their asses handed to them and lose more territory (which Israel rightfully claimed for self defense, like the Golan Heights, they would have been remiss and guilty of misfeasance had they not.
Arabs can't learn becaus of their religion, their sacred text calls for the genocide of Jews
You must go back much further than 1943 to see the real history of this region including Jerusalem and Judah when it was Jew v. Jew until the Assyrians came in and blew it all apart and aided Judah. If we only go back to 1943, the Arabs/ Palestinians have plenty of reason to hate the Israeli Government and Jews writ large. Prior to the birth of Jesus, the Jews were persecuted for generations by the Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, etc.
That's bullshit propaganda.
Didn't expect anything rational from you. The bias is clear. Bye.
Pot calls kettle.
So clever. Applause.
I provided more and perhaps better answers above,not just in response to you, but in response to others, Ctr F, find William Farrar
I appreciated the opinion column & worry about the war's endpoint & aftermath. So complicated, so many lives destroyed. So much dissension, even in this progressive-leaning forum.
Why is the killing of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians by the IDF not considered genocide? Because Hamas struck first and committed atrocities to the Jewish people? That’s where I get stuck. 1200 barbaric deaths by a group hellbent on the decimation of the Jewish people deserves a retaliatory attack that results in the decimation of 1000 Hamas terrorists, responsible for the original attacks plus another 18,000+ innocents in Gaza. So, Israel should not be criticized and if you do criticize then you are antisemitic? 🤷🏽♂️
The "killing of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians by the IDF" is if true, collateral damage to something that Hamas, and for that matter the PA, Qatar, Saudis etc can stop whenever they want, Maybe you are complicit if you don't see that there are hostages and that Hamas kills Palestinians too and refuse to negotiate. .
Hamas is a known terrorist group. But is Netanyahu’s plan to bomb to oblivion all of Gaza, kill hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children, all in order to kill every member of Hamas, not genocide? All in the name of ‘protecting Israelis’. I’d that
Is the answer, then there were never truer words than spoken by Ghandhi, “practicing an eye for an eye will do nothing then to leave us both blind.” Indiscriminate bombing of innocent Gazans will create another generation of young people with hatred for Jews and the Israeli government. This when young people were making advances. The true evil here, as usual, is the extremists in both countries. And to answer your question, am I complicit? Yes. As long as I stay silent about what Israel, the US, and other allies are doing that further creates humanitarian crises for women and children without any end game or ‘day after’ strategy. Netanyahu will be seen as a war criminal if this continues and innocents continue to die.
An opinion by a Zionist. Go figure. The “but Hamas...” argument (if it can even be called that) is getting tired and old. Those who have “genocide in their hearts” are the ones actually committing the genocide. People are waking up to Israel’s lies and deception with every child they see murdered. Those who kill women and children are nothing but COWARDS. When the truth is spoken, all people like you can do is hurl insults. It is still not too late for Zionists to start seeing all humans as equals. But it will likely be soon.
This is by a former Israeli negotiator, Daniel Levy:
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-war/
For those who prefer video, Daniel Levy interview:
https://youtu.be/3a6O-ZeW5zQ?si=OOQiAHlRjCLqEop9
Dr who I am not a Zionist but I echo Daniel, plus some. I was raised white Christian, and am now an atheist and a progressive, a least as regards the culture war, and destroying the rule of the elite.
However I blame HAMAS for raining hell down on it's people, the citizens of Gaza and the west Bank are disposable tools to wage in their war against the Jews, and who is funding and mentoring them, but Iran, who has a long standing official war aagainst the Jews.
I’m sorry you have eaten up all the lies you’ve been fed. I’m sorry you’re so gullible. And I’m sorry you likely won’t listen to rational opinions by fellow white Christian Americans who do not hold your views.
Dr Who, you shouldn't talk to yourself, It isn't healthy. A sign of mental instability.
Free Palesine from the river to the sea is a call to genocide.
Who told you that? I’ll tell you who - the Zionists. And I’ll tell you why - they’re projecting their own meaning of that slogan on to others. ZIONISTS WANT ALL OF THE LAND FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA AND *THEY WANT IT BY WAY OF GENOCIDE*. So when they hear the Palestinians say it, they’re listening to their inner voices. So it scares them because obviously they don’t want the fate they have planned for Palestinians. The only thing Palestinians want is what all human beings want - to live in peace and freedom with neighbors who let them live in peace. End the occupation, and give them equal rights. If you were them, you’d want the same. On this genocidal path it has chosen, Israel’s days are numbered.
Listen to these 2 American patriots:
https://www.youtube.com/live/nHViSu4LUiU?si=f_WRv_H_I5UX8X3r
I fully agree. The Presidents should have outright stated that calling for genocide should be rejected. They were also correct that any decision to expel students (or suspend faculty) for saying such nonsense should be nuanced and situational. Hamas was vile and evil in attacking the innocent and murdering children and deserve punishment. The Israeli government, and the IDF are vile and evil in bombing Gaza indiscriminately and killing children and innocent adults. You can and should be able to say both without a but. War is always the wrong choice and it is always avoidable if there are ethical and rational people on both sides. History is often made by those who lack ethics and rationality. We don't celebrate the ethical and rational very much because their success is historically quiet. Why do we remember failure more than we remember success? Sadly, another old adage is completely true in this context; follow the money. You did and look what it told you. Perhaps taxing the rich and letting government fund the schools is a better path, though all pathways require ethics and wisdom, and we humans are bound to fail on a regular basis. Let us hope that these failures don't reach a critical mass and lead to broader war.
I share your concern; it sets a dangerous precedent and is another example of billionaires wielding their formidable power.
"Wielding" would be putting it generously (drunkenly stumbling instead, perhaps?)...
Thanks for the extended discussion. It's hard to articulate the correct response under these circumstances. Genocide is flat-out wrong, but both the Israelis and the Palestinians feel they're being targeted for genocide by some factions of the opposition. The majority of people on each side don't want to exterminate the other. They both want to live in freedom from oppression. It looks like the problem is the extremist leadership currently in place on each side. Partisans with big bags of money should try to promote thoughtful dialog, not ram their opinions down other peoples' throats.
Considering Palestine and Israel equidistant in any shape or form is being unfair with Palestine, and I am sure any decent Jewish person will agree. We shouldn’t be so afraid to step on any Jewish person’s toes to put both at the same level, especially if we talk about Gaza; one is occupied, the other is the occupier and right at this moment, the invader. The hypocrisy of not seeing the parallelism to the annexation of Ucraine by Russia is beyond comprehension. No one should be able to call for genocide and be respected, but they shouldn’t be imprisoned, or ruined in any way without due process. This country is loosing its democracy at high speed.
"The majority of people on each side don't want to exterminate the other. They both want to live in freedom from oppression. It looks like the problem is the extremist leadership currently in place on each side."
Well stated
Its the same problem in America, we just haven't turned it into a internal civil war (yet)!
All of what you wrote is true. But as we have an ex-president who is saying that he can't be gagged by a court who indicted him because it's a violation of freedom of speech, we are punishing university presidents for defending freedom of speech.
I get your concern about the precedent of big donors pushing out faculty/administrators with views they don't like. But aren't you minimizing the seriousness of this issue? Calling for the genocide of any group of people is barbaric and should not be tolerated in universities under the guise of free speech. It's hate speech. This isn't just another difference in views here. And these presidents were perfectly capable of answering the genocide question with a clear "no, it's intolerable." It sure seems like they didn't because they either do not have a clear guideline about calls for genocide and other hate speech, or if they do, they are not comfortable enforcing them. Not having the moral courage to stand against antisemitism seems as likely, if not more likely, to foster its increase as is the perception that rich Jewish donors control the university.
Stefanik was deliberately laying a trap for the university presidents (maybe she didn't like her GPA at Harvard). I'm surprised Dr. Reich did not see it.
I fully understand and agree with the university presidents; they knew that to say "yes" unequivocally is to open the door to unconstitutional limitations on free speech and then wedge it wider and wider open until students are afraid to say anything for fear it may not be acceptable.
Hate speech, per se, is not illegal in the US unless it rises to the level of inciting violence against a specific group--but that's a judgement call. Is shouting, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" (a common chant at pro-Palestine rallies which some take to be a call for genocide against the Israeli people) a direct incitement to violence against Israelis and/or Jews? Is it even hate speech? Some will hear it as such whether it is intended as such, and some may intend it as such, while others may not--but the only way it can unequivocally considered as such is if someone wielding a weapon shouts it while bearing down on an Israeli or a Jew.
That's why Magill said, "“It is a context-dependent decision." Unless someone explicitly shouts, "Death to the X! They must all be killed!," intent can be ambiguous. Unless someone explicitly calls for genocide, the fact that the auditor HEARS it as a a call for genocide doesn't mean that it is--or that it isn't.
However, if Student A can be kicked out of university for saying something Student X thinks is really a covert call for genocide, even though it is not explicitly so and was not intended as such, opens the university's doors to the Thought Police--an important part of the armamentarium of a dictatorship.
That rich donors can unleash the Thought Police on the administration of universities means the next step will be to unleash them on the faculty, the curriculum, and the students and to turn universities into propaganda-enforcing institutions as DeSantis is trying to do in Florida.
The super-wealthy have already bought the majority of the Supreme Court and a good many legislators, and some, such as the Koch Brothers, spent a good deal of money on trying to buy several universities. To make the best universities of the land the propaganda tools of the plutocracy is to ensure that democracy and freedom are dead in the US.
It's not that complicated. If "from the river to the sea" can be legitimately interpreted to mean wash away all trace of Israel from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean, it should not be tolerated. Otherwise, you open the door to coded hate speech. "The final solution" could be a vision of lasting peace in the Middle East with Jews and Palestinians living in harmony but it should still not be used to rally the crowd at an anti-Israel demonstration.
As Dr. Magill said, "“It is a context-dependent decision." Both phrases would be hate speech at an "anti-Israel: rally, but what about at a "pro-Palestinian"rally? The two need not be the same.
As for coded hate speech, I think that door is already wide open, and it's too late to close it; after all, Trump and the GQP and the white supremacists have been working hard to make it the American vernacular. Ban a phrase, and the haters will come up with a new one; meanwhile some innocent will use the phrase with no idea that it's coded hate speech.
So, what should we do? Assume the worst of everything that's said? See everything as an attack? Should I assume that your saying, "It's not that complicated," REALLY means, "Because you're too stupid to see that it's simple, you should die"? That way lies paranoia and the disintegration of society.
Your argument is well founded
Thank you.
I don't think you are stupid. I just don't agree with you. But I think those university presidents looked stupid for not being able to answer the question simply and clearly, and I don't think they can afford to look stupid even when we all believe them to be smart. They lost this round. No amount of intellectual tap dancing is going to change that.
Different worlds. They live in a world where qualifications, nuances, conditions, and complexities must be addressed and acknowledge; to do less would be to lie. Stefanik (and much of the audience) live in a simpler world of black and white 30 second sound bites.
Exactly! They are out of touch.
I don't think so. They had 2 audiences: the academic world and everybody else. Stefanik had already set up the trap, and they couldn't avoid it, so they had to respond in a way that wouldn't anger or frighten those in the academic world, where they spend most of their time,
I don't think you are seeing the broader perspective, or you are refusing to compromise because you want to win the argument. A hearing like that is a public relations game. They didn't know how to play it. By choosing their ivory tower-speak over the language of the context they were in, they alienated a lot of people including some I know who are very much enmeshed in the academic world.
I do see it in a broader perspective and see it a bad PR. Magill has already paid for that. However, given the way Elise Stefanik set up her trap, a simple, unequivocal "yes" would have been far more dangerous for academic free speech in the long run. They refused to sacrifice academic free speech for PR.
I'm glad to see that Harvard wasn't willing to sacrifice academic free speech for PR and donors.
Ask your academic friends if they think a student should be academically punished for chanting something like "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," which some auditors will hear as a call for genocide and others will not.
If they say "yes," ask them whether the student or the university will win the resulting lawsuit.
The "broader perspective" goes beyond PR, and I think the university presidents saw that and were willing to protect their universities even if, as in Magill's case, it cost their jobs.
I understand your point of view but I think you are clinging to a tangent. The Harvard president has now apologized, and there was an article in NYT yesterday about how opinion on campuses is divided. There is no monolithic "academia" for these university presidents to throw themselves into the breach for.
Should I be able to use the "n" word in public statements if I don't think it's offensive even though everyone else in the world does? "From the river to the sea" has a history of meaning death to Israel. If someone wants to chant a slogan that means, "freedom for Palestine," they should be able to be encouraged to use less loaded language without destroying freedom and democracy and the American way of life. If free speech is interpreted as broadly as you want it to be, Trump can get away with anything.
Watching College presidents parsing each word and equivocating about antisemitism in front of Congress was painful. Somewhere between micro aggressions and outright hate speech we’ve lost our way. While I accept that allowed free speech can sometimes be repugnant and uncomfortable, it should never be threatening. College campuses are ideally positioned to provide a safe space to explore divergent ideas and learn where the lines are between disagreement and dishonor; between an opinion and a threat. This is not a mere academic exercise, the future of our planet rests on our ability to resolve disagreements and conflicting objectives.
In the meantime terrible suffering is occurring in both Israel and Gaza. Tragically, bombing Gaza into rubble will likely only make Israel’s future more tenuous. It may become what one general called a tactical victory, but, a strategic loss. Israel’s future depends on maintaining peace with its neighbors, however difficult.
Sadly, the world is full of brilliance, creativity and ambition, but, so little wisdom.
Actually, it's quite complicated.
Thank you Maureen. Good job,
I did not have a problem with how they answered the question, which was specific about actions and school policy.
But in testifying before the House the Presidents were now operating in the space of politics and power, where truth is only valued as a tool for power.
The rich and powerful hate centers fostering independent thought since it is a threat to them so more of the De Santis type of hijacking of schools is a real concern. Texas has done this as well.
It was a trap laid by the GOP House and notably Stefanik was the one given the hatchet job of asking the most potent divisive question. Even the Whitehouse has piled on. Mission accomplished.
https://www.campusreform.org/article/harvard-mit-upenn-presidents-are-so-far-left-even-the-white-house-condemns-them-report-/24444
https://www.leadershipinstitute.org/
In a way it could be good to see laid bare the influence of a few on those colleges widely held in esteem.
Anyway, all of this distraction on a divisive issue by the GOP House helps our adversaries like Putin and does nothing to help the US deal with its many problems.
If we don't get the GOP (Gas, Oil, Petroleum) Party out of power in Congress all face a very grim future.
Thank you.
You should be afraid of free speech. What you say can spread and can kill many people.
Of course, that's why Canada (where I immigrated to from the US) has sensible hate-speech laws.
Yeah, I never could really cotton to the concept of "hate speech" and it's usefulness. I'm pretty much a maximalist for free speech in academic settings. Much less so if one is talking about using a public platform like twitter. Nothing to resolve on this forum.Just expressing. Unlike Andrew I think its quite complicated to arrive at a logically coherent position.
Thank you for referring back to me -- it makes me feel important :)
You are important. Not all important, but important.
But more fearful of unfree speech.
Michelle Goldberg, the New York Times columnist wrote an OP Ed the very morning after the hearing - focusing on how Stefanik set a trap. The Presidents were set up and all three of them in different ways walked right into it. It would have shown the grand hypocrisy of this time - if - as one of the people posting above described, IF the Presidents had tossed the whole query back in Stephanik's face - in asking how can she dare speak when Stephanik and the rest of the cult allow the vile vitriol, the harassment, the threats, the references to vermin to have flooded across the media -... without a peep from Republicans like her.
Let alone - the travesty that citizens United and other rulings have allowed massive amounts of money to corrupt our political system... the use of Situational outrage to make her point is breathtaking.
I saw Goldberg's column after I wrote my response. Of course,she expressed it better than I did.
I totally agree with you about the GQP.
You are so on target, Maureen. They have their mega dollars in everything. More and more they own us and I will never understand how we tolerate this. There is a complacency that abounds among those comfortable enough to dare not risk anything. History guides so few.
Thank you.
I am virtually standing and applauding every word you’ve written here. I could not agree more vehemently.
Thank you.
tween 2014 and 2019, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates donated at least US$4.4 billion to numerous US colleges. Together with donations from other Middle East nations, over the five years in question, more than US$5 billion was donated to American universities from authoritarian Middle Eastern nations.
And the Koch brothers donated $89.7 million to academic centers, colleges, and universities in the United States and more than $1.1 million to five leading universities across the UK alone. I find that much scarier.
I find both scary, & deplorable that extremely wealthy entities can use their wealth to (often nefariously) influence universities or elections.
You’re more afraid of $91M from American traditionalist conservatives than you are of $5B from Middle East authoritarian regimes?
Well, you people suck at math and you prefer Hamas to Israel so it makes sense.
You need to take your crystal ball in for retuning; it's not doing a very good job at mind reading.
Yes, calling for genocide cannot be tolerated on a personal or. Societal level, but if it is not illegal then it cannot be punished.
Legality is not the question. The question is 'does it violate the schools' behavioral ethics student policy.?' Do the schools have any rules about student behavior?
Hear, hear!!
Apologies. Apparently my substack account has been hacked. I would never give out investment advice. I've done my best the fake me's.
Dollars win every time
Capitalism at its worst
Big money and big business are increasingly using their power to influence politics and now also education and GOP is more than happy to give them political cover, for some handsome donations ofcourse.
not "cover" so much as use them to advance GOP ends. But, yeah.
The big, really big money is coming from Qatar and Saudi Arabia. They are the ones who have an agenda and have been controlling the curriculum. The rich Americans just want to get their children into these schools to make sure they get more billions.
If it weren’t so terrible, it’s almost silly to think how things are CONTINUOUSLY taken out of context and out of proportion. Hypotheticals can be so harmful. Would anyone take the sentence “Would you die for me?” Why do we have to consider if someone called for the genocide of all Israelis? Has it happened or not? If it has, it’s clearly not okay, but the entire world knows that genocide IS taking place in Gaza. Why should we tolerate that more? The hypocrisy of it all is dumbfounding. And you’re right, Professor, these billionaires actions only feed conspiracy theories about Jews running the world. We shouldn’t be surprised, though, that all innocent Jewish and Arabs alike will suffer the consequences of the misdeeds of a few.
There's no genocide in Gaza. Those people knew Hamas was there all the time. I wonder how many cheered when Hamas attacked Israel. If Israel doesn't kill all the Hamas soldiers in Gaza, Israel will be attacked again. Israel knows what happened to the women and children in Germany and what happened to them now.
There’s no genocide happening in Gaza? Really? 1200 horrific deaths by Hamas, 18,000 by Israeli forces. Hmmm?
Ah I see a form of the McCarthy era has returned.