"Both Elon Musk and Donald Trump are sociopathic leaders who demand vast wealth and power, scoff at norms, want total control, and have no regard for anyone but themselves. They are the antithesis of the common good."
Not at all what Adam Smith intended. And what does Tesla do, exactly? Well, it bolts a Chinese battery to a washing machine motor and calls it a car. Not exactly brilliant.
Did you ever consider the common cold? A nasty little virus that has over 2,000 family members waiting in the wings to raise havoc with your plans for the next week or so. No need! The everyday mosquito is another of nature's unique mysteries. No matter how I look at this tiny little blood sucking insect, I can see no relevance for it's being here. It spoils endless outdoor activities where the dad was responsible for remembering the Deet. No need! How about mean people? This group is of an ever growing concern, especially in the political arena. I look at Donald Trump and I pray the "Mosquito" will take his place. After all, what we would be doing is swapping one blood sucking creep for another. No need!
Elon Musk is no parasite, but like Trump he has succumbed to ego-centrism. I would not invest in any of his ventures, because he seems to be unable to control his emotions. Arrogance leads to self-destruction: watch Trump turn into a caricature of a man.
Daniel - does drumpf get to pay his bond now with that "bonus"? by the way, what's that bonus worth after taxes? (just kidding - i know rich folk don't do taxes)
Ring the cash register and pull the voting lever. Trump politics isn't sui generis, it's the voters that ever did and continue to support him that are the root cause.
Oil, land, and water.....The privatizing of WATER is its own terror.
Where will all of this insanity end? Mother Nature always bats last.
When the Musks and the MBSs and the Trumps and the Putins of this world control all of that, we will all learn what it is like to be a peon, a slave, a beggar, and we will wait for Mother Nature's turn at bat. We will wonder how it all ever came to this....How did sane, competent humans hand over power and hope to sadistic sociopaths, and why.
Please don't give up. That's exactly what MAGA choreographers want you to do. We have to keep massaging this fragile experiment in democracy towards the heart.
I have to be registered for a party in order to vote in the primaries (when we actually have a choice). Trouble is by the time it gets to my state's turn, it is almost always already decided, & nearly always not the candidate of my choice.
I can see your point about being desperate. In this country, we move back and forth between ideologies, and we are out at the FAR FAR right... in fact, in my opinion, we've moved into insanity, but that also is the hallmark of times like this. I do not agree with every democratic position, but blue politicians can be encouraged to move left and to better positions. At this point, Republicans will only move further to the right, and god knows... we're WAY too far right as it is... So, "vote blue" it is I think...
Many will write in someone else for president, such as Jon Stewart and Tom Hanks because we are funding the genocide while N walks all over us. He has openly stated that the US will do what he says.
This money we give Israel should be put to use here. Our problems are many; we should not be Israel's bank & trick monkey.
Mother Nature is already having her revenge.Floods, droughts,.drastically changing climate movements leading to famines in many areas of the world and destruction of crops through unseasonable weather whether too hot on too cold.
People asked the same thing about Hitler. It’s gradual repetition of the same propaganda day after day. When we have the Supreme Court deciding if Trump is a criminal it’s a very sad day.
Even the mere fact that the Supreme Court is considering "executive immunity" aka "perpetual license to do whatever the king wants, whenever the king wants, and, by the way, we now have a king" whether it's for purposes of delay to kowtow to the wannabe king or for purposes of one fell swoop declaring the king's coup a success, it is an extremely shocking event.
Sad fact of life, you can buy anyone. Everyone is for sale, and it doesn't have to be aprice more than needed to buy food, clothing and roof over the head.
Look at all the miners with black lung disease, the people that live next to refineries in cancer alley that won't move, but complain about cancer.
The housewives of Love Canal, stayed put until they got the government to buy their homes. The two or three that led the campaign are real hero's, but the point is that money can buy anyone. Think of how many work for a rotten boss and industry,put up with crap, abuse, underpayment because they need a job.
The migration of wealth from worker to oligarch has been orchestrated as “fiduciary responsibility” {balderdash!} since it was elevated to “gospel” in the Reagan era.
“Capitalism” is not just one thing. There’s “unfettered capitalism” that proceeds with few if any rules, primarily aimed at maximizing returns for the owner class with little flowing to the makers in labor. Unfettered capitalism eats up all in its path. There’s “vulture capitalism” that looks for the weak and gobbles it up. And there’s the real possibility of well-regulated capitalism that works for people who start businesses, AND for people who work for them, AND forthe societies in which they function. Capitalism and being able to start and own a business can be a wonderful system, if the rules under which it functions are in place to prevent predation and toxic exploitation. We have to remember why we even HAVE an economic system, and it is NOT to make someone rich. We have an economy to make it possible to live on a small planet with billions of people and facilitate getting needed resources to those people without total chaos and violence.
Pat - I completely agree with your analysis. For me, I think any commodity or business based on extraction of resources needs to be heavily regulated, even nationalized. Currently, our gov't, on our behalf, subsidizes resource extraction. (the mining act, for example). I always go back to the origins of capitalism, when colonial powers-to-be sent out ships to explore for resources. The mindset that it was there for the taking without regard for who lived there continues to this day. this morning i picked up a dole banana to see a sticker "celebrating" 125 years of bananas. i was repulsed at the idea of celebrating 125 years of colonial raping of central and south america for land, resources, labor. the direct consequence of this has been murder, theft of land, destablization of peaceful societies, and ultimately, migrating of dispossessed and oppressed peoples to our borders, looking for the possibility of better lives for their children.
Also, there is a phrase -external costs - that speaks to the costs of extraction, production, transportation, consumption. At this time, costs of environmental degradation and cleanup, for example, are borne by society at large. It generally falls disportionately on those least able to afford it.
So yes, unfettered capitalism is an abomination for people and the earth that supports us.
It is, Paul. There was a time when we expected a fine “return” for the privilege of extracting the natural resources of our country {we can have a conversation about whether all the extraction was ever a good idea at all, but this is about getting compensated …}. Now, I see us “subsidizing” the companies that do the extracting, instead of charging them for the privilege.
Are we still demanding a payment for the privilege of raping our environment? Or are we allowing it, because it creates “jobs”?
I have not kept up with the changes in those rules and regs, so I don’t know if we still get a return for the drilling and logging and water extraction, etc., that goes on big time …
Pat, short answer is, No there has never been even an attempt to estimate what a fair return or "compensation" for any given natural resource extraction eg by a Chevron, or any given pollution event might be -- polluter lobbyists made sure of that rather easily because there was no sufficiently powerful opposing lobby around to advocate for natural resource damages. Compare compensatory damages in tort and contracts litigation: there it is common simply because there is an advocate, the plaintiff Bar which benefits immensely.
"And there’s the real possibility of well-regulated capitalism that works for people who start businesses, AND for people who work for them, AND for the societies in which they function."
Thanks. I think well-regulated capitalism is the BEST way to structure an economy that allows for a human desire to “own” an enterprise we create AND protects against egregious exploitation of those who do not own. We all need to have at least SOME “ownership” over our labor, don’t we? And a just society would ensure a fair return for that labor when it’s put in the service of someone else. Employee-owned companies can certainly be part of that mix, too, but no one should think that ANY economic model will banish the risk of unfair exploitation. Every project needs an eye on “the big picture,” a measure of oversight and management. That means someone with some expertise or skill is going to rise up to call the shots. That person gains power. Power can corrupt. Check out just about EVERY so-called “communist” country that evolves a strong-man in charge and exploitation for everybody else. I truly think capitalism CAN work, with good rules and the right of the people to know what’s going on. Hmmm, sounds like a well-regulated {read “constitutionally sound”} democracy to me.
Without regulation of wealth to avoid gross Inequality: we get corruption: all the way to the Supreme court, that is a threat to our Democratic Republic! Our communications, including not just media, but education systems, our food production , safety inspections, health care virtually everything that affects the quality of our lives and environment.
If an industry moved in and pollutes the air and water, then the industry should be required to take moral and fiscal responsibility, but because of a corrupt judiciary and political system they get away with murder. example Union Carbide, Bhopal, India. After years of law suits, they were required to pay for the death of thousands, but then bought the India Supreme court who reversed their finding. Union Carbide filed for and got bankruptcy and was bought by DOW.
On the other hand, what of those who move into a polluted, cancer causing area and there is public knowledge that the area is hazardous to one's health.
We have to be wary of being influenced in that fashion, but it is not the point about what needs to be done. The point about what is going on in our world and where we need to keep our focus — that is how we avoid being waltzed down the primrose path of Shock Doctrine. Not an easy task, given people’s tendency to act on less information than they really need.
True, for instance we are really not much different than crows, being distracted by the next shiny thing.
For instance, what is happening in Ukraine is threatening to the west, Putin is pounding Ukraine into rubble, knocked out their main power production, committing genocide, left and right and he threatens nuclear war and WWIII, this actually does affect not only Europe but America.
However we are distracted by the destruction in Gaza, and campus idiots.
We and the media.
When they tire of this distraction, another will arise. Meanwhile while the hypocritical bleeding hearts are distracted by Gaza, not a phucking word about the murder and starvation of innocents in Sudan and elsewhere around the world.
Because there are no wealthy South Sudanese and Somali's buying chairs in Universities and sending their kids to our Universities and bestowing largess on Universities via sovereign funds.
And it isn't sexy, because there are no hundreds of indigenous reporters with cell phones and video camera's feeding images to AP, Reuters, Tik Tok or Reddit.
When were you willing to work for years for nothing in order to help humanity get off the teat of big oil. If you must castigate the evil ones, try and start there and not with the man and the company trying to stop them. Much of the hate of Elon is fed by those paid by big oil and media interests.
Nobody said anything about ‘working for nothing’ — not in the US, mostly. Of course, there are lots of places around the world where people are exploited. And it’s not by people trying to create a green economy …
Disagree. The very wealthy have devoted enormous efforts into accumalating what they have. They are would be conquerers. This is what taxes are designed to keep in check.
When you belong to a credit union, you're an owner. One vote per member so you elect your board. A credit union is democracy in action; the interest rates are good - both for savings and loans.
If you buy shares in a bank you are an owner.One vote per share.You can elect the board.
Profits are returned to the owners.The same as all companies.
Over a 40 year time span then Bank of America shares have gone from around $3.50 to $37..The credit union will not generate wealth generation after generation.Companies either listed or private will.
My local butcher is closing,nothing nefarious going on.3 generations have owned it and now they have daughters.None of the girls want to be butchers.Handed down for 3 generations to the next shareholder (owner).Grandfather passed on to son,collected part of the profits ( dividends) in retirement.Son passed on to son,same thing.One problem,the son did not want to be a butcher,he wanted to be an electrician.He hated every moment of working in that shop but felt obligated to keep the family business going. Nobody wants to buy the business so it is not liquid,it can't be sold,it just closes
Companies listed on an exchange are liquid.They can continue for hundreds of years.The profit from the butcher goes to the shareholders ( the family owners).The profit from the bank goes to the owners ( shareholders).No difference. The grandfather needed to spend money to open the shop and buy or rent the premises. To be an owner of B of A you need to buy shares to become a part owner.Exactly the same thing.
Yep, and by the way there is one financial institution/Insurance company that is also and that is USAA, Founded for commissioned officers, it opened to NCO's then all ranks, now if your father or grandfather was a member of the armed forces, you are eligible.
Every year I get a refund on unused profits and premiums, also a yearly Senior Bonus, and contributions to my subscribers saving account, which I can withdraw when I quit my membership, currently about $3,000 and the rates are the very best in the nation.
I have called in for rate comparisons to every company I can think of, and when I tell them I have USAA they say sorry, we can't beat them.
Alternative is censoring, communistic, non Capitalistic - almost nazi like ( un American) ( sort of what the good professor oversees on this site)… Sickening… watch this post vanish in proof of what I say- utterly pathetic… move to Australia which also seems to fear the written word!
Better yet, hold whoever wins the election accountable to good governance and quality policy. That’s where we have failed miserably. Neither party offers a chance to restore the republic or save complex life forms on earth from the eminent climate catastrophe.
The universe is not fair. The laws of physics, you can't get ahead, you can't get even, and you can't get out of the game. Eventually Trump and Musk will pay the piper, just not as fast as i wish.
He has no remorse for wrongdoings- he really thinks as president he can kill someone on 5th ave if he feels that is necessary- just like Putin killing Navalny
Listening to SCOTUS arguments today, it sounds like they agree that he can kill someone in office and get away with it. The questions are pure theater. The DOJ should ask just one question. Does the president have immunity if he shoots and kills someone. That question will expose SCOTUS for what it is. trad rad Catholics They will also uphold Idaho's laws that prohibit abortion except when death of the woman is imminent In essence that is the law.
Any of us can easily predict how the court will rule on anything brought before it.
By the way the court has usurped Congress, Kavanaugh just said, that they have to write statues that will cover the future.
The constitution does not delegate writing laws to the courts.
Yes, because we have heard arguments that any challenge to the criminal greedheads will Not be "good for the country" , or "will further divide the country" . This has been going on for way too long, and look where we are now! the 'supreme court' needs to examine and wring their hands about whether the former President of the United States of America has absolute immunity! As an election draws near that, if he somehow "wins' could put US in a fascist State!
Don't forget that they are DUMB AS ROCKS. Only someone with a ridiculously low IQ could take what they were gifted at birth and RUN IT INTO THE GROUND. Who bankrupts cansinos?!?
Just my usual check on the use of “sociopath”. It doesn’t fit a rational thinker of incomparable accomplishment any better than it fits a narcopathic social predator. In the documentary video linked below, the experts describe a sociopath as a normal person who, through circumstances unique to the individual, has become disillusioned by society. Beavis and Butthead come to mind. Not role models but neither a threat to democracy.
Please excuse my use of the non-word “narcopath”, which sorts so well with “sociopath” and “psychopath”, in place of “He who shall not be named who suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder”.
I wrote a perfectly good reply, then it vanished. “Sociopath” includes mostly rational thinkers but when used in association with social predators, wrongly overlooks their predatory characteristics. Musk does manipulate society to his own benefit, but so far only based on the significant benefits he has already conferred upon society. It’s a challenge to classify someone as a sociopath who has contributed so much to society. A bank robber is an entrepreneur but not all entrepreneurs are bank robbers.
I’ve always wondered: Who else has the time and money to run for Congress? AOC started out helping Bernie Sanders, and then got “discovered” by The Justice League (or whatever it’s called) who then financed her candidacy. She was at the bottom of the barrel and had nothing to lose by volunteering and socializing her way into Congress. That’s all well and good but what about those in the middle who aren’t poor enough to be carefree and not rich enough to risk the adventure?
David! L Sieving : Is your brain a sieve? Because you forget that Musk bought very large "Town Square" now named "X" which is his target to control speech, and constrict truth itself. It is sociopathic enough when he is indifferent to the rights of humans to communicate, without a tyrannical censor, who hates US all! Is that a " significant benefit conferred upon society!!??" BS!! Please look up the word Sociopath again, and write a hundred times what it means. Then go to detention for one hour.....to think about this.
That hasn’t been my experience with X, and I understand that free speech is his goal. Call me clueless but my Swiss cheese brain cant let slip what hasn’t fallen on it.
One could trip on what passed through those holes, though. "Free speech absolutism" is Elon Musk's term for his absolute authority to block or ban any speech he does not approve of. Especially inconvenient truths or plans to cost him money for staying within regulations : like not union busting.
Both Musk and Trump are socially challenged. But, Trump is nothing more than a con man. Meanwhile Musk has done the improbable: He started a successful US car company that was already dominated by the big 3. He introduced the EV, where the big 3 remained too stuck in their habits to even consider doing what was required by climate change for decades. No matter how bad his personallity you have to give him credit for bucking the prevailing ignorant trend, and eliminating more future CO2 emissions than any 100 other humans.
At the same time, I must wonder if his choice of business was just stupid luck, because he also is hell bent on going to Mars and establishing a stable civilization there. He better obtain eternal life first, because that isn't going to happen any time soon.
Not only that, the Tesla plant in Austin, TX was dumping their waste water into the Colorado River! They got caught. Muskrat is as disgusting as trump. There are several creatures the world and the US would be better off without, Muskrat and trumpy are two of them. The US should take their citizenships away and send trumpy to Moscow (or a deserted island in the middle of nowhere) and muskrat back to S.Africa.
1) How is Musk's regard for others, or lack thereof, relevant to the existence of Tesla?
You ask:
2) Who did it before him? Oh, let me see: Anderson, Edison and Baker, in the 19th Century, and the corporations Mitsubishi, Nissan, VW and Fiat in the 20th and 21st centuries. It's really not that difficult: Uh, battery, washing machine motor, connect, go!
Everyone I know who has owned a Tesla thinks it's a clunker, with no maneuverability, and have gone back to Porsche, BMW, etc.
3) This development is easy? Well, yes, I think it is. The main difficulty is the battery, which Musk had absolutely nothing to do with. It was the invention of the brilliant Dr. John Goodenough, Nobel Laureate, and inventor of the next generation Yttrium battery.
I think it's great that Tesla has added a little bit to earlier efforts, but let's not get carried away. And please, Musk is not a genius. On the spectrum maybe, but not a genius.
Now let me see...$56 billion for a year of work = $1,750 per second, night and day, sleep or wake, or over $6 million per hour. Let me ask you, do you really think anyone is remotely worth that sort of money?
I would have you ask Dr. Goodenough but unfortunately he's dead, as is Adam Smith.
Oh, Daniel, this reminds me... Have you heard about one of the people Trump is considering choosing as his running mate, Kristi Noem, admitting shooting a puppy (along with a goat)? You have said we should spread it around that "Trump hates dogs". If he chooses Noem, we can also add that his VP shoots puppies! Really pathetic, that pair!
Trump said that having pets is “low class.” At one point he expressed disappointment that Pence had pets. 2/3rds of American households have pets (or vice versa).
Elon is a white supremacists and emotionally a child. He forced a takeover of twitter because it supported views contrary to his own, then proclaimed himself a free speech absolutist and shut down Twitter sites that disagreed with or criticized him. He is a social cancer who needs to realize his business' are regulated by a government in service of the people.
Elon Musk would benefit from psychological counseling. His own ego is endangering him. He is at risk of becoming a Caligula, and that endangers us all.
"Both Elon Musk and Donald Trump are sociopathic leaders who demand vast wealth and power, scoff at norms, want total control, and have no regard for anyone but themselves. They are the antithesis of the common good."
Not at all what Adam Smith intended. And what does Tesla do, exactly? Well, it bolts a Chinese battery to a washing machine motor and calls it a car. Not exactly brilliant.
Obviously insanity and notoriety ring the cash register. Life ain't fair.
1. Tesla shares jump 13% after Musk says company aims to start production of affordable new EV by early 2025. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/23/tesla-tsla-earnings-q1-2024-.html
2. Trump to receive bonus worth $1.2bn for Trump Media stock performance
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/24/trump-media-bonue
Can what we have today compare to the disaster that Trump created? Hell no, Trump is the worst President this country ever had. Go Joe!
Did you ever consider the common cold? A nasty little virus that has over 2,000 family members waiting in the wings to raise havoc with your plans for the next week or so. No need! The everyday mosquito is another of nature's unique mysteries. No matter how I look at this tiny little blood sucking insect, I can see no relevance for it's being here. It spoils endless outdoor activities where the dad was responsible for remembering the Deet. No need! How about mean people? This group is of an ever growing concern, especially in the political arena. I look at Donald Trump and I pray the "Mosquito" will take his place. After all, what we would be doing is swapping one blood sucking creep for another. No need!
Immunity--
Donald Hodgins <silencenotbad@gmail.com>
12:27 PM (1 minute ago)
If Trump was given immunity on any level, it would be like empowering a modern-day Nero, and we all know what that maniac played his fiddle to.
Donald Trump is our Nero. He hasn't murdered his mother, but he revealed that he holds a grudge against her. Power compensates for a lack of love.
Victor--Don't worry until Trump reaches for an instrument, he never had the skill to play, he just "Fiddled around with it."
BTW -- good thing I don't trade because I would have lost my pants, had I sold short.
Elon Musk is no parasite, but like Trump he has succumbed to ego-centrism. I would not invest in any of his ventures, because he seems to be unable to control his emotions. Arrogance leads to self-destruction: watch Trump turn into a caricature of a man.
Daniel - does drumpf get to pay his bond now with that "bonus"? by the way, what's that bonus worth after taxes? (just kidding - i know rich folk don't do taxes)
The sickest part is that it's musk and trump that say things aren't fair----for THEM.
Ring the cash register and pull the voting lever. Trump politics isn't sui generis, it's the voters that ever did and continue to support him that are the root cause.
So, Mr. Trump can afford paying his half a $billion or so court fines.
China already has produced affordable EV's, but no one is buying them.
Oil, land, and water.....The privatizing of WATER is its own terror.
Where will all of this insanity end? Mother Nature always bats last.
When the Musks and the MBSs and the Trumps and the Putins of this world control all of that, we will all learn what it is like to be a peon, a slave, a beggar, and we will wait for Mother Nature's turn at bat. We will wonder how it all ever came to this....How did sane, competent humans hand over power and hope to sadistic sociopaths, and why.
Why not make it end today by getting out the vote for Democrats? Lots of people have made it easy to do!
REGISTER DEMOCRATS. SAVE DEMOCRACY!
https://www.fieldteam6.org/
I refuse to register with either political party. Out of desperation I "vote blue" but that's the extent of my involvement
Please don't give up. That's exactly what MAGA choreographers want you to do. We have to keep massaging this fragile experiment in democracy towards the heart.
I have to be registered for a party in order to vote in the primaries (when we actually have a choice). Trouble is by the time it gets to my state's turn, it is almost always already decided, & nearly always not the candidate of my choice.
me too.
Im voting for Cornel West or Jill Stein, hopefully they'll get on the ballot in November.
In any case, I cant support the Duopoly. I do not support giving any military aid to Israel or Ukraine.
I can see your point about being desperate. In this country, we move back and forth between ideologies, and we are out at the FAR FAR right... in fact, in my opinion, we've moved into insanity, but that also is the hallmark of times like this. I do not agree with every democratic position, but blue politicians can be encouraged to move left and to better positions. At this point, Republicans will only move further to the right, and god knows... we're WAY too far right as it is... So, "vote blue" it is I think...
Many will write in someone else for president, such as Jon Stewart and Tom Hanks because we are funding the genocide while N walks all over us. He has openly stated that the US will do what he says.
This money we give Israel should be put to use here. Our problems are many; we should not be Israel's bank & trick monkey.
Mother Nature is already having her revenge.Floods, droughts,.drastically changing climate movements leading to famines in many areas of the world and destruction of crops through unseasonable weather whether too hot on too cold.
Oooh, I like your positioning of "whether" right after "weather".
Thanks,Jaime.Where i live ,it's now a question of "whether the weather" is too hot or cold - literally 0 C in the morning to 25 C early afternoon.
People asked the same thing about Hitler. It’s gradual repetition of the same propaganda day after day. When we have the Supreme Court deciding if Trump is a criminal it’s a very sad day.
Even the mere fact that the Supreme Court is considering "executive immunity" aka "perpetual license to do whatever the king wants, whenever the king wants, and, by the way, we now have a king" whether it's for purposes of delay to kowtow to the wannabe king or for purposes of one fell swoop declaring the king's coup a success, it is an extremely shocking event.
Sad fact of life, you can buy anyone. Everyone is for sale, and it doesn't have to be aprice more than needed to buy food, clothing and roof over the head.
Look at all the miners with black lung disease, the people that live next to refineries in cancer alley that won't move, but complain about cancer.
The housewives of Love Canal, stayed put until they got the government to buy their homes. The two or three that led the campaign are real hero's, but the point is that money can buy anyone. Think of how many work for a rotten boss and industry,put up with crap, abuse, underpayment because they need a job.
For now. Certain billionaires are trying to buy up the water so they can sell it to us.
Janet--At what price.
The migration of wealth from worker to oligarch has been orchestrated as “fiduciary responsibility” {balderdash!} since it was elevated to “gospel” in the Reagan era.
“Capitalism” is not just one thing. There’s “unfettered capitalism” that proceeds with few if any rules, primarily aimed at maximizing returns for the owner class with little flowing to the makers in labor. Unfettered capitalism eats up all in its path. There’s “vulture capitalism” that looks for the weak and gobbles it up. And there’s the real possibility of well-regulated capitalism that works for people who start businesses, AND for people who work for them, AND forthe societies in which they function. Capitalism and being able to start and own a business can be a wonderful system, if the rules under which it functions are in place to prevent predation and toxic exploitation. We have to remember why we even HAVE an economic system, and it is NOT to make someone rich. We have an economy to make it possible to live on a small planet with billions of people and facilitate getting needed resources to those people without total chaos and violence.
Pat - I completely agree with your analysis. For me, I think any commodity or business based on extraction of resources needs to be heavily regulated, even nationalized. Currently, our gov't, on our behalf, subsidizes resource extraction. (the mining act, for example). I always go back to the origins of capitalism, when colonial powers-to-be sent out ships to explore for resources. The mindset that it was there for the taking without regard for who lived there continues to this day. this morning i picked up a dole banana to see a sticker "celebrating" 125 years of bananas. i was repulsed at the idea of celebrating 125 years of colonial raping of central and south america for land, resources, labor. the direct consequence of this has been murder, theft of land, destablization of peaceful societies, and ultimately, migrating of dispossessed and oppressed peoples to our borders, looking for the possibility of better lives for their children.
Also, there is a phrase -external costs - that speaks to the costs of extraction, production, transportation, consumption. At this time, costs of environmental degradation and cleanup, for example, are borne by society at large. It generally falls disportionately on those least able to afford it.
So yes, unfettered capitalism is an abomination for people and the earth that supports us.
It is, Paul. There was a time when we expected a fine “return” for the privilege of extracting the natural resources of our country {we can have a conversation about whether all the extraction was ever a good idea at all, but this is about getting compensated …}. Now, I see us “subsidizing” the companies that do the extracting, instead of charging them for the privilege.
Are we still demanding a payment for the privilege of raping our environment? Or are we allowing it, because it creates “jobs”?
I have not kept up with the changes in those rules and regs, so I don’t know if we still get a return for the drilling and logging and water extraction, etc., that goes on big time …
Pat, short answer is, No there has never been even an attempt to estimate what a fair return or "compensation" for any given natural resource extraction eg by a Chevron, or any given pollution event might be -- polluter lobbyists made sure of that rather easily because there was no sufficiently powerful opposing lobby around to advocate for natural resource damages. Compare compensatory damages in tort and contracts litigation: there it is common simply because there is an advocate, the plaintiff Bar which benefits immensely.
"And there’s the real possibility of well-regulated capitalism that works for people who start businesses, AND for people who work for them, AND for the societies in which they function."
You are preaching the truth Pat!
Thanks. I think well-regulated capitalism is the BEST way to structure an economy that allows for a human desire to “own” an enterprise we create AND protects against egregious exploitation of those who do not own. We all need to have at least SOME “ownership” over our labor, don’t we? And a just society would ensure a fair return for that labor when it’s put in the service of someone else. Employee-owned companies can certainly be part of that mix, too, but no one should think that ANY economic model will banish the risk of unfair exploitation. Every project needs an eye on “the big picture,” a measure of oversight and management. That means someone with some expertise or skill is going to rise up to call the shots. That person gains power. Power can corrupt. Check out just about EVERY so-called “communist” country that evolves a strong-man in charge and exploitation for everybody else. I truly think capitalism CAN work, with good rules and the right of the people to know what’s going on. Hmmm, sounds like a well-regulated {read “constitutionally sound”} democracy to me.
And some people starving or being poisoned by dirty water, and air pollution.
For sure — holding the line on these things is what GOOD regulation is for…
Without regulation of wealth to avoid gross Inequality: we get corruption: all the way to the Supreme court, that is a threat to our Democratic Republic! Our communications, including not just media, but education systems, our food production , safety inspections, health care virtually everything that affects the quality of our lives and environment.
The greedy think of regulation as expensive: unless it's to protect them!
If an industry moved in and pollutes the air and water, then the industry should be required to take moral and fiscal responsibility, but because of a corrupt judiciary and political system they get away with murder. example Union Carbide, Bhopal, India. After years of law suits, they were required to pay for the death of thousands, but then bought the India Supreme court who reversed their finding. Union Carbide filed for and got bankruptcy and was bought by DOW.
On the other hand, what of those who move into a polluted, cancer causing area and there is public knowledge that the area is hazardous to one's health.
Disaster Capitalism, making a killing out of catastrophe https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Capitalism-Making-Killing-Catastrophe/dp/1784781150
Shock Doctrine, the Rise of Disaster Capitalism https://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctrine-Rise-Disaster-Capitalism/dp/0312427999
Yes, that is a psychological reality.
We have to be wary of being influenced in that fashion, but it is not the point about what needs to be done. The point about what is going on in our world and where we need to keep our focus — that is how we avoid being waltzed down the primrose path of Shock Doctrine. Not an easy task, given people’s tendency to act on less information than they really need.
True, for instance we are really not much different than crows, being distracted by the next shiny thing.
For instance, what is happening in Ukraine is threatening to the west, Putin is pounding Ukraine into rubble, knocked out their main power production, committing genocide, left and right and he threatens nuclear war and WWIII, this actually does affect not only Europe but America.
However we are distracted by the destruction in Gaza, and campus idiots.
We and the media.
When they tire of this distraction, another will arise. Meanwhile while the hypocritical bleeding hearts are distracted by Gaza, not a phucking word about the murder and starvation of innocents in Sudan and elsewhere around the world.
Because there are no wealthy South Sudanese and Somali's buying chairs in Universities and sending their kids to our Universities and bestowing largess on Universities via sovereign funds.
And it isn't sexy, because there are no hundreds of indigenous reporters with cell phones and video camera's feeding images to AP, Reuters, Tik Tok or Reddit.
So it isn't sexy.
Beautifully said, Pat!
When were you willing to work for years for nothing in order to help humanity get off the teat of big oil. If you must castigate the evil ones, try and start there and not with the man and the company trying to stop them. Much of the hate of Elon is fed by those paid by big oil and media interests.
Nobody said anything about ‘working for nothing’ — not in the US, mostly. Of course, there are lots of places around the world where people are exploited. And it’s not by people trying to create a green economy …
Disagree. The very wealthy have devoted enormous efforts into accumalating what they have. They are would be conquerers. This is what taxes are designed to keep in check.
Join a credit union. It's a small start to take power away from the banks who fund these capitalists.
Amen, Thom Hartmann recommended that back during the two big to fail bullshit.
I was banking with Wells Fargo with all of their bullshit fees and charges.
I switched to BECU, no fees, no charges, and better yet I get interest on checking and savings, actually more interest on checking than savings.
The reasonis that Checking accounts, not savings accounts, are part of the reserve based used, along with federal and corporate bonds, for loans.
Time or savings accounts are not.
When you belong to a credit union, you're an owner. One vote per member so you elect your board. A credit union is democracy in action; the interest rates are good - both for savings and loans.
If you buy shares in a bank you are an owner.One vote per share.You can elect the board.
Profits are returned to the owners.The same as all companies.
Over a 40 year time span then Bank of America shares have gone from around $3.50 to $37..The credit union will not generate wealth generation after generation.Companies either listed or private will.
My local butcher is closing,nothing nefarious going on.3 generations have owned it and now they have daughters.None of the girls want to be butchers.Handed down for 3 generations to the next shareholder (owner).Grandfather passed on to son,collected part of the profits ( dividends) in retirement.Son passed on to son,same thing.One problem,the son did not want to be a butcher,he wanted to be an electrician.He hated every moment of working in that shop but felt obligated to keep the family business going. Nobody wants to buy the business so it is not liquid,it can't be sold,it just closes
Companies listed on an exchange are liquid.They can continue for hundreds of years.The profit from the butcher goes to the shareholders ( the family owners).The profit from the bank goes to the owners ( shareholders).No difference. The grandfather needed to spend money to open the shop and buy or rent the premises. To be an owner of B of A you need to buy shares to become a part owner.Exactly the same thing.
Yep, and by the way there is one financial institution/Insurance company that is also and that is USAA, Founded for commissioned officers, it opened to NCO's then all ranks, now if your father or grandfather was a member of the armed forces, you are eligible.
Every year I get a refund on unused profits and premiums, also a yearly Senior Bonus, and contributions to my subscribers saving account, which I can withdraw when I quit my membership, currently about $3,000 and the rates are the very best in the nation.
I have called in for rate comparisons to every company I can think of, and when I tell them I have USAA they say sorry, we can't beat them.
I hadn't heard of this show but will definitely watch it. Thanks for the link.
Alternative is censoring, communistic, non Capitalistic - almost nazi like ( un American) ( sort of what the good professor oversees on this site)… Sickening… watch this post vanish in proof of what I say- utterly pathetic… move to Australia which also seems to fear the written word!
I call them both psychopaths (Trump and Musk)… no remorse or empathy for others for their wrongdojngs.
Better yet, Get Out The Vote
https://www.fieldteam6.org/
Better yet, hold whoever wins the election accountable to good governance and quality policy. That’s where we have failed miserably. Neither party offers a chance to restore the republic or save complex life forms on earth from the eminent climate catastrophe.
Susan Beall : Says. tRump : " It's so unfair, These are victimless crimes!; Why should I be punished!" "Nobody got hurt!".
The universe is not fair. The laws of physics, you can't get ahead, you can't get even, and you can't get out of the game. Eventually Trump and Musk will pay the piper, just not as fast as i wish.
I agree. The pendulum always swings.
He has no remorse for wrongdoings- he really thinks as president he can kill someone on 5th ave if he feels that is necessary- just like Putin killing Navalny
Listening to SCOTUS arguments today, it sounds like they agree that he can kill someone in office and get away with it. The questions are pure theater. The DOJ should ask just one question. Does the president have immunity if he shoots and kills someone. That question will expose SCOTUS for what it is. trad rad Catholics They will also uphold Idaho's laws that prohibit abortion except when death of the woman is imminent In essence that is the law.
Any of us can easily predict how the court will rule on anything brought before it.
By the way the court has usurped Congress, Kavanaugh just said, that they have to write statues that will cover the future.
The constitution does not delegate writing laws to the courts.
Yes, anything he does to harm others is no big deal. But even the Thought that he should suffer consequences is very unfair, in his estimation.
And he whines to Congressional Republicans that they should stop the criminal trials "for the good of the country." Can you imagine the chutzpah?
Yes, because we have heard arguments that any challenge to the criminal greedheads will Not be "good for the country" , or "will further divide the country" . This has been going on for way too long, and look where we are now! the 'supreme court' needs to examine and wring their hands about whether the former President of the United States of America has absolute immunity! As an election draws near that, if he somehow "wins' could put US in a fascist State!
Interesting that he admits they're crimes.
Don't forget that they are DUMB AS ROCKS. Only someone with a ridiculously low IQ could take what they were gifted at birth and RUN IT INTO THE GROUND. Who bankrupts cansinos?!?
Impulsive . Greedy, children. Who never grew up. Time for a time out!
I may have written a post about dumb narcissists…
Ha ha! Good one, Daniel.
Just my usual check on the use of “sociopath”. It doesn’t fit a rational thinker of incomparable accomplishment any better than it fits a narcopathic social predator. In the documentary video linked below, the experts describe a sociopath as a normal person who, through circumstances unique to the individual, has become disillusioned by society. Beavis and Butthead come to mind. Not role models but neither a threat to democracy.
https://wayofages.wayofages.org/fishheadmovie/
Please excuse my use of the non-word “narcopath”, which sorts so well with “sociopath” and “psychopath”, in place of “He who shall not be named who suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder”.
Sociopath was not my word, but why does it not include rational thinkers?
I wrote a perfectly good reply, then it vanished. “Sociopath” includes mostly rational thinkers but when used in association with social predators, wrongly overlooks their predatory characteristics. Musk does manipulate society to his own benefit, but so far only based on the significant benefits he has already conferred upon society. It’s a challenge to classify someone as a sociopath who has contributed so much to society. A bank robber is an entrepreneur but not all entrepreneurs are bank robbers.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Did you know that over half of all Members of Congress are millionaires? https://m.essage.us/msg/O2WJTFV4cM
I’ve always wondered: Who else has the time and money to run for Congress? AOC started out helping Bernie Sanders, and then got “discovered” by The Justice League (or whatever it’s called) who then financed her candidacy. She was at the bottom of the barrel and had nothing to lose by volunteering and socializing her way into Congress. That’s all well and good but what about those in the middle who aren’t poor enough to be carefree and not rich enough to risk the adventure?
David! L Sieving : Is your brain a sieve? Because you forget that Musk bought very large "Town Square" now named "X" which is his target to control speech, and constrict truth itself. It is sociopathic enough when he is indifferent to the rights of humans to communicate, without a tyrannical censor, who hates US all! Is that a " significant benefit conferred upon society!!??" BS!! Please look up the word Sociopath again, and write a hundred times what it means. Then go to detention for one hour.....to think about this.
That hasn’t been my experience with X, and I understand that free speech is his goal. Call me clueless but my Swiss cheese brain cant let slip what hasn’t fallen on it.
One could trip on what passed through those holes, though. "Free speech absolutism" is Elon Musk's term for his absolute authority to block or ban any speech he does not approve of. Especially inconvenient truths or plans to cost him money for staying within regulations : like not union busting.
Both Musk and Trump are socially challenged. But, Trump is nothing more than a con man. Meanwhile Musk has done the improbable: He started a successful US car company that was already dominated by the big 3. He introduced the EV, where the big 3 remained too stuck in their habits to even consider doing what was required by climate change for decades. No matter how bad his personallity you have to give him credit for bucking the prevailing ignorant trend, and eliminating more future CO2 emissions than any 100 other humans.
At the same time, I must wonder if his choice of business was just stupid luck, because he also is hell bent on going to Mars and establishing a stable civilization there. He better obtain eternal life first, because that isn't going to happen any time soon.
Right on, Michael! Great description and he purchased Tesla, didn't start it.
Don't forget the exploding flammable batteries....
Yy luv oh o o jcjcjchochohohochochrxx
Joke time: Why did Musk's son have a meltdown on his 16th birthday? "Daddy, I wanted a Testarossa, not a Tesla Roadster! What are you, deaf?"
Not only that, the Tesla plant in Austin, TX was dumping their waste water into the Colorado River! They got caught. Muskrat is as disgusting as trump. There are several creatures the world and the US would be better off without, Muskrat and trumpy are two of them. The US should take their citizenships away and send trumpy to Moscow (or a deserted island in the middle of nowhere) and muskrat back to S.Africa.
Thank you Michael
Perfectly stated.
1) How is Musk's regard for others, or lack thereof, relevant to the existence of Tesla?
You ask:
2) Who did it before him? Oh, let me see: Anderson, Edison and Baker, in the 19th Century, and the corporations Mitsubishi, Nissan, VW and Fiat in the 20th and 21st centuries. It's really not that difficult: Uh, battery, washing machine motor, connect, go!
Everyone I know who has owned a Tesla thinks it's a clunker, with no maneuverability, and have gone back to Porsche, BMW, etc.
3) This development is easy? Well, yes, I think it is. The main difficulty is the battery, which Musk had absolutely nothing to do with. It was the invention of the brilliant Dr. John Goodenough, Nobel Laureate, and inventor of the next generation Yttrium battery.
I think it's great that Tesla has added a little bit to earlier efforts, but let's not get carried away. And please, Musk is not a genius. On the spectrum maybe, but not a genius.
Now let me see...$56 billion for a year of work = $1,750 per second, night and day, sleep or wake, or over $6 million per hour. Let me ask you, do you really think anyone is remotely worth that sort of money?
I would have you ask Dr. Goodenough but unfortunately he's dead, as is Adam Smith.
No. Companies get created to create profit. The public interest of shiny plastic junk in need for it are NIL
That makes zero sense whatsoever. We’re through here
Bullshit. There’s no alternative in many places. Take your fossil fuel cocksucking elsewhere. I’m not having it. I sure as hell don’t want to see it
Says a guy who supports someone who stole from kids with cancer.
Oh, Daniel, this reminds me... Have you heard about one of the people Trump is considering choosing as his running mate, Kristi Noem, admitting shooting a puppy (along with a goat)? You have said we should spread it around that "Trump hates dogs". If he chooses Noem, we can also add that his VP shoots puppies! Really pathetic, that pair!
I''ve been commenting about her on Heather's Substack.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/opinion/trump-military-dog.html
Trump said that having pets is “low class.” At one point he expressed disappointment that Pence had pets. 2/3rds of American households have pets (or vice versa).
https://www.tiktok.com/discover/trump-hates-dogs
Good for you!
Maybe something about being born with obscene wealth. Yeah, that's a toughie.
Elon is a white supremacists and emotionally a child. He forced a takeover of twitter because it supported views contrary to his own, then proclaimed himself a free speech absolutist and shut down Twitter sites that disagreed with or criticized him. He is a social cancer who needs to realize his business' are regulated by a government in service of the people.
You would know too if you didn't insist on only watching news to the right of fox.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/15/elon-musk-hypocrite-free-speech
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/21/musk-media-matters-texas/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2024/01/09/elon-musk-silencing-his-critics-as-journalists-are-suspended-by-x/?sh=1a19ab2d2588
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/x-twitter-elon-musk-nazi-extremist-white-nationalist-accounts-rcna145020
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DYtUSBJNUd0
https://twitter.com/MattBinder/status/1725148078179553306
https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2023-11-27/recapping-elon-musks-antisemitic-shitstorm/
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/goulcher_this-week-on-elon-musk-openly-being-a-white-activity-7124411638958436352-FCUu?trk=public_profile_like_view
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/elon-musk-desantis-x-twitter-florida-political-violence-white-supremacists-neo-nazis/
https://rsf.org/en/twitter-x-elon-musk-s-transformation-free-speech-defender-champion-disinformation
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/04/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-matt-taibbi-substack/673698/
Elon Musk would benefit from psychological counseling. His own ego is endangering him. He is at risk of becoming a Caligula, and that endangers us all.
Paul, the genius you admire is no more.