Personally I’d love that but legally (so far) he is a first time felon. There was no violence in this particular crime and most first time felons convicted of similar crimes don’t get a jail sentence.
If Judge Merchant sentences Trump to jail time it will play into the Republican narrative of a political witch hunt. More moderate republicans will be more likely to accept the verdict if the judges sentence is within the norms for this particular crime. Granted there is the election interference charge but I believe that is best left to commentators and the press to keep that front and center.
It’s natural to want to see Mr. Trump pay for all the damage he has done and continues to do but it’s best to take things one criminal act at a time. There are plenty more ahead but to make sure these are all addressed without the stink of witch hunt we need to take it one step at a time.
Having said all that I have one more comment. YIPPEE!!! They got him.
Michael Cohen was a first time felon and got 3 years. I assume Allen Weiselberg was a firsttimer and he got a prison sentence. While I tend to agree it is unlikely and perhaps unseemly to incarcerate 45, there are aggravating circumstances like the 10+ violations of the gag order.
But this was not normal. The felon violated 10 gag orders. Assessing his tendency to continue this behavior is a legitimate consideration in deciding on a sentence.
Don’t be cowed by sure Republican rage. They will be righteous and full of rage no matter the verdict. We have to hope that Justice does the right thing.
I think all of us reading this article would like to see Trump sentenced to serve time, but I can definitely see that having an effect on the election if it makes him into more of a martyr figure and backs up all of those MAGA claims of Democratic witch hunts.
Why is it that people are so fearful of MAGA reaction that they don't want to press an advantage when they have it? MAGAnites are already going to turn out for Trump who is already their savior.
He'll be a martyr among his core cult followers, but they're not the majority of Republicans. Other of his Republican supporters realize that the country can't be run from a jail cell; so, rather than vote for Biden, they'll probably either just not vote, or vote for RFK Jr. in protest.
I hear you. I just don't agree on the matyr thing. MAGA is already all in pretty much. He is already a martyr figure for them. They don't need any "reality" to back their claims of witch hunt. You're thinking rational, not MAGA.
For independents some jail time will make him look more like a LOSER that does not belong in the Whitehouse.
But unemotionally, I would like to see him get a sentence that fits the crime (and his gag violations). It sounds like he might not get jail time.
Overall I'm hopeful that this conviction will make some difference to the voters, and thus all the difference come the election.
You’re right about the MAGA folk already having firmly established Trump’s martyrdom in their eyes. I have to take off my “rational” hay to think like them, I guess.
I, too, would love to see him get at least some of the jail time that he so richly deserves - especially if that could turn enough independent voters and/or moderate Republicans away from the Dark Side long enough to keep him from getting elected.
I do hold out an improbable hope that the Republican National Convention delegates will come to their senses this summer, decide that enough is finally enough, and nominate someone else to face Biden. I don’t think that Trump could pull off a victory so late in the game as an independent candidate. (At least, that’s what I keep telling myself.)
If punishment were to be meted out for violation of the gag orders, Merchan would have already done so at the time the violations occurred. I'm a tad furious whenever I hear people (including D.A. Alvin Bragg) say that T***p was treated just like any other accused person at trial. He was not; he was coddled.
I think coddled is a stretch. It seemed to me that the judge was calibrating how far to go lest he triggered some outrageous act. That said, I was disappointed that he was allowed to vent before the media in the hallway.
Okay. How about "indulged"? "Humored"? Deciding consequences based on whether or not a 3rd party(ies) would be triggered is not equal application of the law.
Yes and even on leaving the court after the verdict, he again accused the Judge of being "corrupt" and the trial pre-decided. - I don't understand why he can continually get away without penalty for slandering the Judge - isn't that defamatory?
They did say that Judge Merchan will take into consideration the gag order violations when it comes to sentencing. But it is true, there is not usually jail time given for this type of crime. And the Republicans WILL be full of rage. Too bad so sad.
As the Republicans, with only few exceptions, support Trump regardless, I doubt it matters how much rage they show. They cannot do much more than they did on January 6th when they stormed the Capitol. That any rational and reasonable person can support Trump is beyond my understanding for his perfidy, self-aggrandisement and lying is plain to witness and his record in regard to business dealings and unfair treatment of employees speaks for itself.
Yes, I accept that justice may take time and that fair-minded and just people cannot copy the wrongs of those who aren't. At the same time, it seems almost unfathomable and intolerable that this whole sordid mess has continued for so long; that Trump's appointees to the Bench have refused to recuse themselves and also slowed down the process in other criminal indictments, as well as the reality that even after having been convicted of actions to interfere with an election, this despicable man can, even if imprisoned, still become the President. If he does so, then most certainly he will simply pardon himself - yet another outrageous possibility.
Surely, if nothing else, there needs to be an amendment to the Constitution to prevent such a situation ever being possible in the future. - How is Constitutional change brought about?
Actually, I've been thinking about that, too. Among other things (including preserving voting and reproductive rights), the Constitution needs to set out a code of ethics, enforcement and consequences for the Supreme Court Justices.
Will that happen? Not in OUR lifetimes. A Constitutional Amendment takes years (possibly decades) and requires a hefty majority of Americans to vote for it. Hell, right now we can't even agree that we have legitimate results from our current voting systems, so I can't imagine how something as consequential as voting to amend the Constitution would work.
Sadly, I consider that a bet on your view would be an almost certain winner and definitely worth the risk. I don't like having to say it but I cannot disagree.
Given that such is the case, is there any way that at least some of the necessary issues could be dealt with to some extent by legislation or would they all, for instance a code of ethics and/or the entitlement even of felons to vote or be elected? Also, would these sorts of changes/introductions of law be the matter for each State and/or the Federal Congress and Senate?
The States would never be able to makes rules for one of the three Federal branches. So, it would have to be an effort at the Federal level.
I,too, thought about Congress as a starting point for a Federal effort. But, as we've seen, they can just as easily un-do or pervert any legislation that has previously been passed in the House or Senate. Or -- they can put it in the pipeline and wait for SCOTUS to do so.
The quality of our legislators reflects the quality of decision-making of the people who put them into office. Sadly, we are now reaping what we have sown after decades of de-funding public education. We have a populace that is ignorant about civics and the basic tenets of our form of democracy, has little ability to perform critical analysis on the most basic of issues, worships materialism, and sees nothing wrong with injecting religion into every area of public life -- even making it mandatory in some cases. America has been "dummified" to the point where people at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder vote against their own interests.
These days my most frequent ear worm is Joni Mitchell singing "You don't know what you got 'til it's gone." I'm hoping the 2024 election results will improve my mood.
I don't know how that is done but I know it can be done, non sibi cunctis. I agree with everything you said. This amendment to the Constitution must be addressed after the election. When we have President Biden in the White House and Democratic majorities in the Senate and the House, maybe they will work toward that reform.
From whitehouse.gov: there are 2 ways to propose an amendment to the Constitution.
>>An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.<<
Once again, we can see how imperative it is to vote carefully *at all levels of office, in all elections* and not just drop in every 4 years for the Presidential race. State legislatures are quite influential in determining the path for the ship of state.
I agree with you, Dalatias. We must stay vigilant in every election because truthfully, I think those crazy right-wingers slipped in to a lot of each states government and are wreaking havoc everywhere!! The state our country is in right now I doubt we will get that amendment any time soon!!
Drink a champaign toast to the jury for seeing thru all of the BS Trump’s defense attorney threw at them and for voting to convict Trump on all 34 criminal charges.
I think it helped to have 2 attorneys and an investment banker on the jury. Even though this was not their area of expertise, they probably had well-developed sensitivities to BS.
The Judge could make an example out of this behavior. Election interference strikes at the heart of our democracy. He would be striking a blow for better governance.
I agree . . . EXCEPT: he could probably appeal any sentence that might >appear< overly harsh. Whatever the judge decides, he better get it right and have it fully documented and supported 10 ways from Sunday!
Not my call. That would be for an appeals court to decide, because >of course< he'll be appealing anything from the conviction to the sentencing. Let's not be obtuse about that certainty!
Interesting. He may be a first-time felon, but he committed 34 felonies during that "first time." If a first-time offender kidnaps and rapes someone every day for 30 days, is that considered one offense or 30+? Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme was a first-time criminal financial offense that affected thousands of people, and he didn't get a slap on the wrist. Surely the extent of the offense must be a determining factor when considering the punishment. Weisselberg and Cohen had to serve jail time and they didn't have criminal records.
Frankly, with all the talk about appeals, and the multiple years they can take, Trump will probably croak before he sees any jail time. It's not as if he's a paragon of good health!
What I am now hoping for is a concerted effort to identify, catalog and track ALL his assets and prevent him from hiding/transferring them. I'm quite sure he doesn't have enough $$ to pay all the judgments against him (much less the pending attorneys' bills), so he's going to try to hide every last buck.
The worst punishment this malignant and egotistical narcissist could suffer would be to die penniless, his name stripped from all his properties, and his crime family scrambling to pay their bills. They might even have to get real jobs and a paycheck. The word "trump" should be absorbed into our common vernacular to be synonymous with "f*ck" and "failure." ["Damn. He really trumped that up! What a loser."]
Yes but the charges were different. One being lying to Congress. Im not sure of the others but based on what Trump is convicted of, the norm for a first time conviction is no jail time. I think Judge Merchan is a wise man and will rule accordingly. I’m just cautioning people about expectations and why he probably won’t go to jail for this one. But there’s plenty more ahead.
Let’s hope if he is given no jail time, he is sentenced to six months of community service sweeping the platforms and emptying garbage bags in the NYC subway system— a wonderful opportunity for reporters to snap. photos of him in janitorial uniform.
Yes you’re right, this is not a normal case. But he will be going to a screening where all convicted criminals go. He will be interviewed asked many personal questions including questions about his mental health. It is a thorough examination and he will be treated like every other convicted felon that goes through this process.There he will be treated like every other criminal and he will have a parole officer assigned to him.
No Mr. Trump is not normal by any means but neither are his followers. I believe that on the part of his sentencing it needs to be treated as it would if he was Joe Citizen. Yes he did violate 10 gag orders, but he paid the fines. That will be on record along with his screening as a part of his character, but he paid the fines so it’s a done deal as far as punishment.
I believe he is a vile and dangerous man but I also believe it’s very important to keep to the standards of the sentencing. This conviction is a big step, and there’s more to come. My point is if the sentencing is seen as outside of the norm there will be backlash. The MAGA faction will go berserk. Perhaps I should say even more berserk.
This case has to be treated like any other case or the witch-hunt accusations and this is Joe Biden’s doing in spite of the fact that it’s a state conviction not a federal one
Think of this as step one. There’s still the Georgia case, the insurrection case, the classified documents case, and I’m pretty sure Arizona and Michigan are also in the works. An overly zealous sentencing could damage these cases if this one has the appearance of unfairness.
It's Not Joe Biden's fault under any rationalization! To hell with what the insurrectionist traitor MAGA s think! If jail is an option and the law allows it , let the judge use his judgement. TRump may need to see the error of his ways, and get a little humility. Like any other law breaker.
Trump was no ordinary defendant with no criminal record, etc. He was the PRESIDENT, so the judge should for that reason send him to prison as an abject example of what can happen to a future president who breaks the law.
Yes there were. That’s not unusual in a felony case. A person can murder someone and face several convictions for the one murder. Carrying an unregistered weapon, carrying a concealed weapon, carrying a weapon while under the influence etc etc. one murder multiple convictions.
The violence was in his words, both in court and outside. He made threats; he lied; he implied bad things happening to the officers of the court and others who had done him wrong. He earned the 10 contempt citations the court meted out to him.
The violence of his words continue to echo and also to destroy and coarsen - threat by threat - our democracy. No remorse. Just continued criminality.
The Judge can and will take this into consideration. But it is not true that there was no violence associated with this or other crimes.
Speaking of 'pay'.....how will this affect his status in corporatedom and how will it affect his loans? Can convicted Felons still get loans? Insurance?
Under Florida law - where he lives and votes - it reverts to the state policy where he was convicted - I hear tell. NY permits convicted felons to vote - I hear tell.
That's what I'm saying. He'll be allowed to vote in FL because NY allows convicts to vote. Had he been convicted in FL he wouldn't be legally allowed to vote.
Great point. I would urge Blue MAGA to curb their (public) display of schadenfreude to avoid feeding Red MAGA's claim that the trial was rigged. Clinton was treated with leniency - only a fine - for misrepresenting the funding of the Steele Dossier as "legal services" instead of opposition research.
Trump needs to be taken down for his actual felonies: election interference and conspiracy to overturn election results.
I think community service that would be humbling to him....service at a food kitchen comes to mind. Let him see how the extreme different population from him lives, without cameras or microphones
I think the conviction speaks for itself without jail time. This conviction is huge when it comes to Trump who has been able to dodge everything else. Finally something stuck!
Sue GG... too many of DJT's underlings and political followers are in prison! He's found guilty of Fraud, He's found guilty of rape ( E. Jean Carol) , He's been found guilty of stealing from a Nonprofit organization while President (along with his kids),
.. not putting him in prison would lead to more disillusionment about our broken justice that only serves rich white men! Lock him up! It's not America's fault that the GOP is full of crap!
And if it goes to the Supreme Court, well, they will walk all over the jury's verdict and how at lest 60% of voters agree with. Alito and Thomas MUST be censored or impeached...they are not impartial!
It's not going to the US Supreme Court. It's not a federal case. It's a NYC case (brought by *Manhattan* D.A. Alvin Bragg), so the court of appeal will be in the State of NY.
A state appeals court was already by passed on the issue of his not being able to be prosecuted for anything he did while president or afterwards. It's sitting with the SC now and they're taking their darn time to give their opinions. So why wouldn't this decision be by-passed and sent to the SC. Trump always wants the SC to be the final say, since he's loaded it up just for himself.
No. A state appeals court was not involved in that case. Charges were filed in a Federal court in D.C. Trump moved to have the charges dismissed, based on a claim of Presidential immunity. Judge Chutkan denied Trump's motion to dismiss the charges.
So Trump appealed Chutkan's decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, and asked her to pause proceedings pending the appellate court's review.
Meanwhile, Jack Smith asked SCOTUS to bypass the D.C. Circuit and swiftly decide whether Trump could be criminally charged for allegedly illegal acts committed while in the White House (i.e., the ridiculous presidential immunity argument).
While SCOTUS was deciding whether to accept Jack Smith's request for a swift decision by them, Judge Chutkan granted Trump's request to pause the proceedings in the case. (All these judges are bending over backwards to humor Mango Mussolini so that their decisions cannot later be found to be faulty and thrown out.)
About a week later SCOTUS said nope to Jack Smith's request for them to fast-track his request to get resolution on the presidential immunity claim. So.....
....the issue went *back* to the DC Circuit Court. The three-judge panel there unanimously ruled that Trump is not entitled to broad immunity from prosecution. [Duh! Now, was that so hard??]
The DC Circuit judges gave Trump until Feb. 12 to ask the Supreme Court to pause their (the DC Circuit's) decision. On Feb. 12 Trump asked SCOTUS for emergency relief from the D.C. Circuit's ruling against him. Two days later (Feb. 14) Jack Smith urged SCOTUS to reject Trump's request for emergency relief and allow the D.C. Circuit's ruling to stand. BUT, Smith also said if the justices really think Trump's immunity claim warrants their review, they should take up the case on an expedited basis. ('Cause -- Hello? Trials/election/stuff goin' on, y'all!)
Two WEEKS later (2/28) SCOTUS agrees to consider whether Trump is entitled to presidential immunity from prosecution for acts allegedly committed while in office. They set arguments for the week of APRIL 22 (nearly 2 months later) and said the proceedings in the case will remain on hold until it issues a decision, expected by the end of JUNE.
And so, here we are. Cooling our heels until the end of next month. But, as you can see, there was no state supreme court or state appellate court involved. It was a federal filing in D.C., which (obviously) does not have statehood. The D.C. Circuit court made the right decision (no-brainer!), but Dolt 45 appealed it to SCOTUS. No "bypassing" occurred.
Whew, I'm exhausted reading that. Thanks for the clarification. What it boils down to for me is the SC judges appointed by Trump - and Roberts, Alito and Thomas are not neutral to the extreme. If they give Trump presidential immunity we might as well have the Mafia running the country. Total lawlessness will ensue. Only thing on the positive side for me is I'm old and won't be around to see the long term destruction.
Right you are, Susan! Their goal is political; in other words, their goal is to control some and exclude others. They turned Jesus into a tribal idol, and Trump has convinced them that he is the embodiment of their tribal identity, not unlike Adolf Hitler.
Ergo Roman tick fallacy is still merely propaganda for the rape slave murder mass murder repeat and rape God story tellers ad naseum. Hit a non fiction section and dwell there.
I wouldn't hold him in that high a regard. Satan has higher standards! 🤣 He's just another tired-assed little heretic with a high profile. See Jim Jones and Jonestown/
And he will wear that label with pride. Because thats who he is. He will use it to rev up his misinformed masses of foolish followers. The unmagnanimous maga maggots will not care. To them he can do no wrong. No matter how much wrong he does. Or how bad. For they are either blind or just refuse to see. To admit to themselves that the one they follow, they put up on such a high pedestal, their "Super Savior" is not. Or can ever do any wrong. They will think and cheer and yell that he is such a strong powerful tough guy bad ass. For that impresses their naive immature minds. And he will just keep feeding them his lies and crap. Saying just what they want to hear. And they will just keep swallowing it down in blissful glee. And just keep on hating.
Nah. It's a big nothing-burger as it turns out. Sorry to disappoint you & the rest of the world, but that's what usually happens in the world's most corrupt s666-hole country.
Yes, I remember when that rule was being challenged, arguing that if the convicted felon had served their sentence, they had paid their debt to society. But the challenge failed. Since he has property in other states, he can probably challenge that.
The Democrats want to keep him in the spotlight too. He has been one of their favorite scapegoats. He has beena good focal point for hate. Nothing distracts a person more than hate.
Apparently the Supreme' MAGAs 'on the Court cannot follow guidelines either! All the MAGAts in Congress are disqualified for supporting the insurrection! The MAGAs on the Supreme Court: all 6 of them, are disabled under the 14th amendment: section 3 : disqualification clause as well. How convenient that they can 'just' strike it down and make it disappear! They violated their oaths of office when they overturned Roe vs Wade, making a law regarding Religion! And stripping over half of the population of the most basic rights to bodily autonomy! They are traitors who support a wanna be dictator
B.S.! tRUMP wants all the power and does not pay taxes like he should! He cheats steals and lies. Even cheats orphans with cancer ; is no longer allowed to run a charity!
Adam: it is the other way around ; the very wealthy have a larger "megaphone, money is speech. They buy the courts and legislation that favors their interests! For a working person with modest income, it's like David facing Goliath! The thing is rigged in the favor of those who have Uber wealth and power. Unregulated wealth and media with no guardrails is incompatible with Democracy. Those on the bottom are closer to being slaves. The idea of self rule in a Democracy is fading fast.This is "taxation without representation " to the Max! Gingrich had it upside down. If anyone is overdue for a Tea Party it's those who actually work for a living! It's coming, too.
That's actually incorrect. The Constitution clearly delineates what qualifies a citizen to be eligible to run for President, a Federal office. Which means that States _can't_ keep a convicted felon from being on the ballot. (Federal Law trumps State Law.) [pun intended]
Thank you for posting this. I think that many people misunderstand the difference between state and federal qualifications for office. I wish that today’s verdict would bar him from the office of the president, but, unfortunately, it doesn’t.
Gina ; It is all interpretation. The disqualification clause is pretty clear. " Those who have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution ; After having taken that oath engaged in an insurrection to interfere with the functioning of government. they sought to stop the certification of votes in a presidential election, thus violating their oaths of office.
Interpretation is key here as some things in the Constitution, or in its amendments, are clearly delineated while others are more open to debate. Unfortunately, participating in a traitorous act isn’t as cut and dried as it should be. There are few specific requirements for holding federal offices, but having a clean criminal record isn’t one of them.
Yes. As with the presidency, the U.S. Constitution has set few requirements for serving in Congress. House members must be at least 25 years old, have been a U.S. citizen for at least seven years, and live in the state they represent. Senators have similar requirements, but their residency requirement is extended to nine years, and they must be at least 30 years old. There is no mention of criminal records.
This may be true of all/most/some Representatives and Senators. (I’m not sure because I haven’t done the research on all the states.) However, it unfortunately does not apply to the office of the President which is under federal jurisdiction.
yes, with the voters weighing in, hopefully, in a "free and fair election". We had a remedy against traitors, and lawlessness ; The 14th amendment section 3 ; the disqualification
clause! I don't know if there is a challenge to the way the Supreme Court MAGAs just ignored that . It would be concerning if they can just get away with trashing settled law and nullifying the Constitution.
Yes ; that is what I wrote ; "with the voters weighing in"; But the remedy against having a traitor on the ballot was there, as I stated. 14th amendment. The "Supreme Court" discarded the remedy provided in the Constitution to remove disabled traitors from their seats in government and on the bench of the Supreme Court, and federal courts.
He hasn't been brought to justice yet. He was found guilty, but our legal system is built to let rich white men like him evade actual justice. If and when he's actually in prison, then we can talk about him being brought to justice. Until such time it's way too early to celebrate.
They have no power there. One; these crimes were committed before tfg became president & two; they have no jurisdiction on account these were State crimes, not federal crimes.
I don’t know all the ins and outs of the court system, but he could not be pardoned by a president {meaning himself}.
I don’t know about SCOTUS.
Maybe that’s federal and out of their jurisdiction. I’m not really sure.
That would be cool, if he could not be helped by all his powerful buddies. But I think someone said his case will go there.
Not sure if they could GET it there before November — it has to go through more local appeals …
If the SCOTUS did actually just give him a pass, that would be a VERY dicey thing to have happen … It would NOT get him re-elected …
Hmmm, now must look up jurisdictions … Mmmmph.
I’m still happy he’s convicted. So delicious.
{Some of what I read suggests if a verdict in state court is interwoven with federal statutes, it might bring in SCOTUS jurisdiction — It all gets pretty arcane to me. Right now, I’m happy Donny’s a convict.}
SCOTUS and state rulings are not intertwined. Where did you get that idea? We are all so traumatized by TFG. Don’t worry. He can only go to the states court of appeals and Judge Merchan did an excellent job of doing everything by the book and air tight. Do not worry.
I got the idea from reading an article that said if a state charge and verdict is intertwined with a federal charge or statute, there could be some crossover…. Listening to coverage today, the manner in which the misdemeanors in this trial were raised to felonies had to do with connecting them to OTHER crimes. Misdemeanors of this type committed during the commission of ANOTHER crime makes it a felony. And in a few of the charges in this case, federal statutes were cited [I’m not sure if it was related to taxes, or what.]
I really have NO idea if the type of thing Trump is convicted of is what was referred to in discussing how a state charge can be reviewed by federal appeals courts… Which is why I said, “D’uh! I just hope nobody can draw a line from this to SCOTUS.” I know the charges are state jurisdiction and ONLY state jurisdiction. I know a number of charges are brought against him in other states that preclude any federal involvement. I’m just not absolutely sure about this one, given the complexity of the case that was brought to raise his many misdemeanors to the level of complex felonies.
I follow Elizabeth Conrise McGaughlin and from what I understand when the payments were falsified to look like a campaign contribution and then Cohen was “reimbursed” for supposed legal services that were not real, that’s when it was hiked to a felony. But TFG was violating New York State campaign finance laws. And that is why it was tried in a New York State court and not federal. But you may be on to something as it was also the federal campaign laws that were broken too. But all of it occurred under New York jurisdiction. We shall see. I will ask that question to ECM tomorrow. Look her up on Patreon.
I'm not so sure about that. Being that Trump is running for president and is a former president the Supreme Court can hear an appeal of a state court case if a substantial federal question is present. I'm sure Trump's lawyers are working overtime to find that loophole.
I think the only way SCOTUS could even hear the case would be if there was a violation of constitution rights in the process of the trial. Notice how careful the judge was about every single trial rule right down to the gag order violations.
Since when do Republicans let laws get in the way? They'll probably make up some blatant bullshit, the fascists on the supreme court will go for it, and the news orgs will run a couple days of articles about how "surprising" and "unprecedented" it all is before they go right back to the election horse race coverage and doing their best to swing it in his favor so they can keep raking in those sweet sweet ratings.
That's up to Trump's lawyers to figure out. He is running for president and is the first president to be a convicted felon. Given how much the majority of the SCOTUS is in Trump's camp nothing would surprise me.
That said, Trump could get 4 years for each of the 34 counts. I doubt that's going happen though.
That’s what I’ve been thinking Jeff. The allegations had to do with New York state law and he was tried in a New York state court. So supposedly his appeal
can only go to the highest state court. But, if his attorneys can come up with a valid federal issue,
You clearly didn't follow the trial at all to make such an ignorant statement. This trial will set the record for reversible error AND unconstitutional rulings and jury instructions absolutely can be heard by SCOTUS.
I am SO absolutely surprised and pleased at this verdict.
His lawyers had a chance to challenge and reject partisan jurors. I was worried about “a lone hold out.”
Now, the unending litany of “supporters” harping on his “innocence” begins …
We who believe this verdict need to be louder and more sure than his deluded defenders.
I hear he is warning other Republicans not the seek donations for their own campaigns on the strength of this verdict — he wants any and all sympathy money to come to him. How can Republicans put up with him!?
The Left needs to reach the Deluded with facts like this - somehow we need to reach through the fog and show them what he is…his core incompetence and rottenness.
There is a RawStory out this morning quoting a producer on Trump’s old TV show, the Apprentice, talking about how the show had to make extra, controlled and scripted recordings of Trump and edit them into the show’s footage to clear up his massive confusing and incomprehensible dialogue on the set {he couldn’t remember people’s names, rambled on inanely, and was often randomly misogynistic and racist!}.
Things like that are what might reach his sycophants. They will reject political lectures — but showing him up to be The Phony Behind the Curtain is a task for the next few months.
The fact that he is "warning" other Republicans not to campaign using the verdict shows how he wants to end all competition from other members of his party. He is a bully and imitates a mob boss. If he retaliates against them,, that will expose him more for what he is.. just bad news.. For them as well as everyone else.
This was a state court ruling. The Supreme Court has no jurisdiction in this case just like a president can’t pardon him because it’s a state court not a federal court ruling. Take a big breath of relief.
this won't make it to the Supreme Court- it's a state case based upon state principles and laws unless the defense is alleging that the state law is unconstitutional- and that's not the case here. It could go to a NY appellate court if they can allege a reversible error or other such important issue which would necessitate the state appellate court to take it and as much as I have read and listened, I don't see grounds- ineffective counsel? (teasing).
Focus on what is Civic Duty. Djt has no honor valor merit and he could a woulda should a lived out his weird pointless life pressing a button for his beverage...but nooo000oo.
And to get there he has to first exhaust his options in New York. Then he will most likely have to wait until October when SCOTUS gets back in session after summer break and then it has to be picked up by SCOTUS and then that probably won’t happen until after the election. In the meantime he will be in custody of some sort.
@Lucius. IMHO he'll try to "post" his lawyers alleging they were/are incompetent.
THE NEW YORK CPL 440 MOTION
A CPL 440 motion seeks to reverse a defendant’s conviction based on facts that are off the record (i.e. facts or issues that do not appear in the transcripts of the proceedings in the trial level court). Such motions can be made before or after the direct appeal has been submitted to the appellate court. However, the 440 motion is not filed with an appellate court. It is filed with the judge in the trial court who presided over the defendant’s trial or plea. No notice of appeal needs to be filed to preserve a defendant’s right to file a CPL 440 motion in the trial court.
DJT will never be "brought to justice" until he's put behind bars for the rest of his unnatural life w/o probation or parole. He's a career criminal & a traitor, not a patriot, to his native country. AFAIC, he's earned the right to choose his method of public execution: hanging, firing squad, electric chair, or lethal injection After his corpse has been cremated, the ashes should be buried next to his late wife's at Bedminster Golf Club's 1st hole.
A hanging on the National Mall AFTER HIS CONVICTIONS IN HIS INSURRECTION AND ESPIONAGE CASES to EXORCISE THE SINS OF SLAVERY HE SO PROUDLY ENGAGED IN THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE!
alot of bloggers on Matt Taibbi's blog show including Matt cheer for Trump and insist that he was 'unfairly prosecuted in NY' and some say 'they will now donate to Trump because of the 34 unfair felony convictions'.
And alot of the bloggers on Robert Reich's blog show cheer Bidens billions sent to back Netanyahu's genocide in Gaza and Bidens proxy war against Russia,.
Of course the Trump and Biden supporters disagree and some hate each other but they are actually joined at the hip.
The statement "these charges should have never been brought" uttered by none other than Author Aidala of CNN. Trump is an influential man with questionable ethics, and he feels he has a get out of jail free card at his disposal whenever the need presents itself. He had 34 indictments against him, not just one. Twelve men and women selected by both sides of this legal mess heard the evidence and determined Trump to be guilty on all counts. There was no conspiracy, no government sponsored election interference. President Biden had no part in this debacle, it was all Donald Trump. The man acted like a crook, he got caught and now he's a convicted felon. You skate on thin ice and sooner or later you're bound to break through.
Weak, Hodgins. That's because you don't know. Why dont you admit that? The stupidest voting cohort in American history allows their feelings to rule them. Facts are inconsequential to Trump Derangement Syndrome which has now resulted in millions applauding a Berian show trial.
Robert--With all the people out to choose from why get behind a mentally deranged Laier, a sexual deviate, and a fraud. They had John Kasic, a good man, right there and instead they picked an ass over him. The Republican party is all but done if they don't ditch Trump, the man is crazy, a fascist, and a convicted felon. Nice choice. 1:11
President Biden should maintain his position of keeping distance to all Justice! Except under strenuous circumstances!
Stick to your message of Roe vs Wade, the protection of our women, gun culture, Immigration and border, a stronger Justice department, the economy, more the usual!
Keep distance to all of Trump, this is not a good time for getting in the middle of it, it is by far not done yet! What about crimes committed in the context of Jan 6, Election interference and the secret documents issue!
Convicted felon. The only title he’s worthy of
He earned the title of convicted felon.
About the only thing he ever actually earned on his own account.
That he did and there could be a hell of a lot more before it's all said and done.
JennSH from NC, how about the orange felon? hahaha
Yes he did!
Agree about convicted felon, but you might want to add Robert De Niro's "just another shabby real estate hustler."
!!!
Imprisoned felon?
Personally I’d love that but legally (so far) he is a first time felon. There was no violence in this particular crime and most first time felons convicted of similar crimes don’t get a jail sentence.
If Judge Merchant sentences Trump to jail time it will play into the Republican narrative of a political witch hunt. More moderate republicans will be more likely to accept the verdict if the judges sentence is within the norms for this particular crime. Granted there is the election interference charge but I believe that is best left to commentators and the press to keep that front and center.
It’s natural to want to see Mr. Trump pay for all the damage he has done and continues to do but it’s best to take things one criminal act at a time. There are plenty more ahead but to make sure these are all addressed without the stink of witch hunt we need to take it one step at a time.
Having said all that I have one more comment. YIPPEE!!! They got him.
Michael Cohen was a first time felon and got 3 years. I assume Allen Weiselberg was a firsttimer and he got a prison sentence. While I tend to agree it is unlikely and perhaps unseemly to incarcerate 45, there are aggravating circumstances like the 10+ violations of the gag order.
Susan: I don't think it "unseemly" to incarcerate a former president. He should be held to a higher standard, if anything!
Good point
Trump should have been cuffed and led away to jail just like any other convicted felon. Why he wasn’t remains unexplained.
Low flight risk and not yet sentenced. But wait, the best thing that could happen would be for Trump to run to some safe country ... like Russia
Hear, hear.
Sentence him to House Arrest in the Trump Tower, without WiFi access and no way to communicate with the outside world.
👍
But this was not normal. The felon violated 10 gag orders. Assessing his tendency to continue this behavior is a legitimate consideration in deciding on a sentence.
Don’t be cowed by sure Republican rage. They will be righteous and full of rage no matter the verdict. We have to hope that Justice does the right thing.
I'd like to see him put in jail and they lose the key.I don't give a rats ass about reaction. It's won't hurt Biden reelection.
I think all of us reading this article would like to see Trump sentenced to serve time, but I can definitely see that having an effect on the election if it makes him into more of a martyr figure and backs up all of those MAGA claims of Democratic witch hunts.
We get nowhere if we keep obsessing about optics. Why allow them to write the narrative? The law is the law: for everyone!
Why is it that people are so fearful of MAGA reaction that they don't want to press an advantage when they have it? MAGAnites are already going to turn out for Trump who is already their savior.
EXACTLY, Laurie!
He'll be a martyr among his core cult followers, but they're not the majority of Republicans. Other of his Republican supporters realize that the country can't be run from a jail cell; so, rather than vote for Biden, they'll probably either just not vote, or vote for RFK Jr. in protest.
I hear you. I just don't agree on the matyr thing. MAGA is already all in pretty much. He is already a martyr figure for them. They don't need any "reality" to back their claims of witch hunt. You're thinking rational, not MAGA.
For independents some jail time will make him look more like a LOSER that does not belong in the Whitehouse.
But unemotionally, I would like to see him get a sentence that fits the crime (and his gag violations). It sounds like he might not get jail time.
Overall I'm hopeful that this conviction will make some difference to the voters, and thus all the difference come the election.
You’re right about the MAGA folk already having firmly established Trump’s martyrdom in their eyes. I have to take off my “rational” hay to think like them, I guess.
I, too, would love to see him get at least some of the jail time that he so richly deserves - especially if that could turn enough independent voters and/or moderate Republicans away from the Dark Side long enough to keep him from getting elected.
I do hold out an improbable hope that the Republican National Convention delegates will come to their senses this summer, decide that enough is finally enough, and nominate someone else to face Biden. I don’t think that Trump could pull off a victory so late in the game as an independent candidate. (At least, that’s what I keep telling myself.)
If punishment were to be meted out for violation of the gag orders, Merchan would have already done so at the time the violations occurred. I'm a tad furious whenever I hear people (including D.A. Alvin Bragg) say that T***p was treated just like any other accused person at trial. He was not; he was coddled.
I think coddled is a stretch. It seemed to me that the judge was calibrating how far to go lest he triggered some outrageous act. That said, I was disappointed that he was allowed to vent before the media in the hallway.
Okay. How about "indulged"? "Humored"? Deciding consequences based on whether or not a 3rd party(ies) would be triggered is not equal application of the law.
Definitely know if it were you or I…
Yes and even on leaving the court after the verdict, he again accused the Judge of being "corrupt" and the trial pre-decided. - I don't understand why he can continually get away without penalty for slandering the Judge - isn't that defamatory?
The judge has been too easy on Trump and his outrages. Hopefully it’s pay back time come July 11th.
He wears people down.
I don't think we'll see that. Drat.
They did say that Judge Merchan will take into consideration the gag order violations when it comes to sentencing. But it is true, there is not usually jail time given for this type of crime. And the Republicans WILL be full of rage. Too bad so sad.
As the Republicans, with only few exceptions, support Trump regardless, I doubt it matters how much rage they show. They cannot do much more than they did on January 6th when they stormed the Capitol. That any rational and reasonable person can support Trump is beyond my understanding for his perfidy, self-aggrandisement and lying is plain to witness and his record in regard to business dealings and unfair treatment of employees speaks for itself.
Yes, I accept that justice may take time and that fair-minded and just people cannot copy the wrongs of those who aren't. At the same time, it seems almost unfathomable and intolerable that this whole sordid mess has continued for so long; that Trump's appointees to the Bench have refused to recuse themselves and also slowed down the process in other criminal indictments, as well as the reality that even after having been convicted of actions to interfere with an election, this despicable man can, even if imprisoned, still become the President. If he does so, then most certainly he will simply pardon himself - yet another outrageous possibility.
Surely, if nothing else, there needs to be an amendment to the Constitution to prevent such a situation ever being possible in the future. - How is Constitutional change brought about?
Actually, I've been thinking about that, too. Among other things (including preserving voting and reproductive rights), the Constitution needs to set out a code of ethics, enforcement and consequences for the Supreme Court Justices.
Will that happen? Not in OUR lifetimes. A Constitutional Amendment takes years (possibly decades) and requires a hefty majority of Americans to vote for it. Hell, right now we can't even agree that we have legitimate results from our current voting systems, so I can't imagine how something as consequential as voting to amend the Constitution would work.
Consequences being a key thing.
Sadly, I consider that a bet on your view would be an almost certain winner and definitely worth the risk. I don't like having to say it but I cannot disagree.
Given that such is the case, is there any way that at least some of the necessary issues could be dealt with to some extent by legislation or would they all, for instance a code of ethics and/or the entitlement even of felons to vote or be elected? Also, would these sorts of changes/introductions of law be the matter for each State and/or the Federal Congress and Senate?
The States would never be able to makes rules for one of the three Federal branches. So, it would have to be an effort at the Federal level.
I,too, thought about Congress as a starting point for a Federal effort. But, as we've seen, they can just as easily un-do or pervert any legislation that has previously been passed in the House or Senate. Or -- they can put it in the pipeline and wait for SCOTUS to do so.
The quality of our legislators reflects the quality of decision-making of the people who put them into office. Sadly, we are now reaping what we have sown after decades of de-funding public education. We have a populace that is ignorant about civics and the basic tenets of our form of democracy, has little ability to perform critical analysis on the most basic of issues, worships materialism, and sees nothing wrong with injecting religion into every area of public life -- even making it mandatory in some cases. America has been "dummified" to the point where people at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder vote against their own interests.
These days my most frequent ear worm is Joni Mitchell singing "You don't know what you got 'til it's gone." I'm hoping the 2024 election results will improve my mood.
by reasonable men and women who seem to be in short supply just now.
I don't know how that is done but I know it can be done, non sibi cunctis. I agree with everything you said. This amendment to the Constitution must be addressed after the election. When we have President Biden in the White House and Democratic majorities in the Senate and the House, maybe they will work toward that reform.
From whitehouse.gov: there are 2 ways to propose an amendment to the Constitution.
>>An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.<<
Once again, we can see how imperative it is to vote carefully *at all levels of office, in all elections* and not just drop in every 4 years for the Presidential race. State legislatures are quite influential in determining the path for the ship of state.
I agree with you, Dalatias. We must stay vigilant in every election because truthfully, I think those crazy right-wingers slipped in to a lot of each states government and are wreaking havoc everywhere!! The state our country is in right now I doubt we will get that amendment any time soon!!
👍
The "Republicans "rage" should not rule US!
👍
The morning after comes soon enough. Let's just celebrate what just happened today!
Drink a champaign toast to the jury for seeing thru all of the BS Trump’s defense attorney threw at them and for voting to convict Trump on all 34 criminal charges.
I think it helped to have 2 attorneys and an investment banker on the jury. Even though this was not their area of expertise, they probably had well-developed sensitivities to BS.
Trump and his defense attorneys tried their best to fool the jury, but the jury wasn’t buying any of it. 34 zip!
Im all for that!
The Judge could make an example out of this behavior. Election interference strikes at the heart of our democracy. He would be striking a blow for better governance.
I agree . . . EXCEPT: he could probably appeal any sentence that might >appear< overly harsh. Whatever the judge decides, he better get it right and have it fully documented and supported 10 ways from Sunday!
What about Weisselberg? He was a first time felon and was sentenced to jail!
Not my call. That would be for an appeals court to decide, because >of course< he'll be appealing anything from the conviction to the sentencing. Let's not be obtuse about that certainty!
Interesting. He may be a first-time felon, but he committed 34 felonies during that "first time." If a first-time offender kidnaps and rapes someone every day for 30 days, is that considered one offense or 30+? Bernie Madoff's ponzi scheme was a first-time criminal financial offense that affected thousands of people, and he didn't get a slap on the wrist. Surely the extent of the offense must be a determining factor when considering the punishment. Weisselberg and Cohen had to serve jail time and they didn't have criminal records.
Our legal system is very complex. I’d like to see Trump locked up for life. That may happen by the time his trials are all done.
Frankly, with all the talk about appeals, and the multiple years they can take, Trump will probably croak before he sees any jail time. It's not as if he's a paragon of good health!
What I am now hoping for is a concerted effort to identify, catalog and track ALL his assets and prevent him from hiding/transferring them. I'm quite sure he doesn't have enough $$ to pay all the judgments against him (much less the pending attorneys' bills), so he's going to try to hide every last buck.
The worst punishment this malignant and egotistical narcissist could suffer would be to die penniless, his name stripped from all his properties, and his crime family scrambling to pay their bills. They might even have to get real jobs and a paycheck. The word "trump" should be absorbed into our common vernacular to be synonymous with "f*ck" and "failure." ["Damn. He really trumped that up! What a loser."]
That is what I fervently hope for.
Im with you Dalatias.
What about Michael Cohen? He was a first time felon and was sentenced to jail
Yes but the charges were different. One being lying to Congress. Im not sure of the others but based on what Trump is convicted of, the norm for a first time conviction is no jail time. I think Judge Merchan is a wise man and will rule accordingly. I’m just cautioning people about expectations and why he probably won’t go to jail for this one. But there’s plenty more ahead.
Let’s hope if he is given no jail time, he is sentenced to six months of community service sweeping the platforms and emptying garbage bags in the NYC subway system— a wonderful opportunity for reporters to snap. photos of him in janitorial uniform.
Now THAT idea has merit, Debra!! I would love to see that!!
Yes you’re right, this is not a normal case. But he will be going to a screening where all convicted criminals go. He will be interviewed asked many personal questions including questions about his mental health. It is a thorough examination and he will be treated like every other convicted felon that goes through this process.There he will be treated like every other criminal and he will have a parole officer assigned to him.
No Mr. Trump is not normal by any means but neither are his followers. I believe that on the part of his sentencing it needs to be treated as it would if he was Joe Citizen. Yes he did violate 10 gag orders, but he paid the fines. That will be on record along with his screening as a part of his character, but he paid the fines so it’s a done deal as far as punishment.
I believe he is a vile and dangerous man but I also believe it’s very important to keep to the standards of the sentencing. This conviction is a big step, and there’s more to come. My point is if the sentencing is seen as outside of the norm there will be backlash. The MAGA faction will go berserk. Perhaps I should say even more berserk.
This case has to be treated like any other case or the witch-hunt accusations and this is Joe Biden’s doing in spite of the fact that it’s a state conviction not a federal one
Think of this as step one. There’s still the Georgia case, the insurrection case, the classified documents case, and I’m pretty sure Arizona and Michigan are also in the works. An overly zealous sentencing could damage these cases if this one has the appearance of unfairness.
Have faith this is just the beginnings.
>>He will be interviewed asked many personal questions including questions about his mental health.<<
Ohhh....I would give my eye teeth to be a fly on the wall for THAT meeting. "Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV."
Me too, Dalatias!!
It's Not Joe Biden's fault under any rationalization! To hell with what the insurrectionist traitor MAGA s think! If jail is an option and the law allows it , let the judge use his judgement. TRump may need to see the error of his ways, and get a little humility. Like any other law breaker.
Trump was no ordinary defendant with no criminal record, etc. He was the PRESIDENT, so the judge should for that reason send him to prison as an abject example of what can happen to a future president who breaks the law.
Excellent points! And yippee!
There were 34 Felony Convictions.
Yes there were. That’s not unusual in a felony case. A person can murder someone and face several convictions for the one murder. Carrying an unregistered weapon, carrying a concealed weapon, carrying a weapon while under the influence etc etc. one murder multiple convictions.
The violence was in his words, both in court and outside. He made threats; he lied; he implied bad things happening to the officers of the court and others who had done him wrong. He earned the 10 contempt citations the court meted out to him.
The violence of his words continue to echo and also to destroy and coarsen - threat by threat - our democracy. No remorse. Just continued criminality.
The Judge can and will take this into consideration. But it is not true that there was no violence associated with this or other crimes.
Speaking of 'pay'.....how will this affect his status in corporatedom and how will it affect his loans? Can convicted Felons still get loans? Insurance?
Can they vote?
Under Florida law - where he lives and votes - it reverts to the state policy where he was convicted - I hear tell. NY permits convicted felons to vote - I hear tell.
But he's registered to vote in FL. Not that he bothers to, though. . . .
That's what I'm saying. He'll be allowed to vote in FL because NY allows convicts to vote. Had he been convicted in FL he wouldn't be legally allowed to vote.
Check out this Politico article:
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/30/donald-trump-vote-2024-election-00160430
There’s a real possibility Trump can’t vote in November
Florida law allows most convicted felons to vote — but only after they complete their sentence.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/can-trump-vote-november-convicted-felony-new-york-rcna154286
If he gets jail time, probably not.
We'll have to wait and see.
Great point. I would urge Blue MAGA to curb their (public) display of schadenfreude to avoid feeding Red MAGA's claim that the trial was rigged. Clinton was treated with leniency - only a fine - for misrepresenting the funding of the Steele Dossier as "legal services" instead of opposition research.
Trump needs to be taken down for his actual felonies: election interference and conspiracy to overturn election results.
I think community service that would be humbling to him....service at a food kitchen comes to mind. Let him see how the extreme different population from him lives, without cameras or microphones
I think the conviction speaks for itself without jail time. This conviction is huge when it comes to Trump who has been able to dodge everything else. Finally something stuck!
Sue GG... too many of DJT's underlings and political followers are in prison! He's found guilty of Fraud, He's found guilty of rape ( E. Jean Carol) , He's been found guilty of stealing from a Nonprofit organization while President (along with his kids),
.. not putting him in prison would lead to more disillusionment about our broken justice that only serves rich white men! Lock him up! It's not America's fault that the GOP is full of crap!
We can hope he is sentenced to jail.
Just perfect for today.
"Ding Dong the Witch - HUNT is dead"!
That was over long ago. They >caught< the damn witch months ago, who was just convicted in the first witch TRIAL!
Hopefully, but not yet, there will be appeals, it's a very safe bet.
And if it goes to the Supreme Court, well, they will walk all over the jury's verdict and how at lest 60% of voters agree with. Alito and Thomas MUST be censored or impeached...they are not impartial!
It won’t go to the Supreme Court. It is a state ruling.
It won’t go to the Supreme Court. This was a state ruling!!
My thoughts as well, Mary Ann. His appeals.may.be.taken all the way.to the vaunted Supreme Court....only.to be quashed. I'm not celebrating just yet.
It's not going to the US Supreme Court. It's not a federal case. It's a NYC case (brought by *Manhattan* D.A. Alvin Bragg), so the court of appeal will be in the State of NY.
A state appeals court was already by passed on the issue of his not being able to be prosecuted for anything he did while president or afterwards. It's sitting with the SC now and they're taking their darn time to give their opinions. So why wouldn't this decision be by-passed and sent to the SC. Trump always wants the SC to be the final say, since he's loaded it up just for himself.
No. A state appeals court was not involved in that case. Charges were filed in a Federal court in D.C. Trump moved to have the charges dismissed, based on a claim of Presidential immunity. Judge Chutkan denied Trump's motion to dismiss the charges.
So Trump appealed Chutkan's decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, and asked her to pause proceedings pending the appellate court's review.
Meanwhile, Jack Smith asked SCOTUS to bypass the D.C. Circuit and swiftly decide whether Trump could be criminally charged for allegedly illegal acts committed while in the White House (i.e., the ridiculous presidential immunity argument).
While SCOTUS was deciding whether to accept Jack Smith's request for a swift decision by them, Judge Chutkan granted Trump's request to pause the proceedings in the case. (All these judges are bending over backwards to humor Mango Mussolini so that their decisions cannot later be found to be faulty and thrown out.)
About a week later SCOTUS said nope to Jack Smith's request for them to fast-track his request to get resolution on the presidential immunity claim. So.....
....the issue went *back* to the DC Circuit Court. The three-judge panel there unanimously ruled that Trump is not entitled to broad immunity from prosecution. [Duh! Now, was that so hard??]
The DC Circuit judges gave Trump until Feb. 12 to ask the Supreme Court to pause their (the DC Circuit's) decision. On Feb. 12 Trump asked SCOTUS for emergency relief from the D.C. Circuit's ruling against him. Two days later (Feb. 14) Jack Smith urged SCOTUS to reject Trump's request for emergency relief and allow the D.C. Circuit's ruling to stand. BUT, Smith also said if the justices really think Trump's immunity claim warrants their review, they should take up the case on an expedited basis. ('Cause -- Hello? Trials/election/stuff goin' on, y'all!)
Two WEEKS later (2/28) SCOTUS agrees to consider whether Trump is entitled to presidential immunity from prosecution for acts allegedly committed while in office. They set arguments for the week of APRIL 22 (nearly 2 months later) and said the proceedings in the case will remain on hold until it issues a decision, expected by the end of JUNE.
And so, here we are. Cooling our heels until the end of next month. But, as you can see, there was no state supreme court or state appellate court involved. It was a federal filing in D.C., which (obviously) does not have statehood. The D.C. Circuit court made the right decision (no-brainer!), but Dolt 45 appealed it to SCOTUS. No "bypassing" occurred.
Whew, I'm exhausted reading that. Thanks for the clarification. What it boils down to for me is the SC judges appointed by Trump - and Roberts, Alito and Thomas are not neutral to the extreme. If they give Trump presidential immunity we might as well have the Mafia running the country. Total lawlessness will ensue. Only thing on the positive side for me is I'm old and won't be around to see the long term destruction.
Agree.
We’ll find out on July 11.
Why July 11 - - Why so far away? The whole damned trial barely took that long! What happened to "swift and sure"?
Was that ever a thing?
He will wear it like a badge of honor. That's what duplicitous people do.
Yes Jesus too was vilified, Evangelicals will say.
Christian Nationalists say a lot of things, a great many of which are simply not true.
Indeed! Christian nationalists pervert Christianity.
They do indeed, primarily because their goal is political, not spiritual.
Right you are, Susan! Their goal is political; in other words, their goal is to control some and exclude others. They turned Jesus into a tribal idol, and Trump has convinced them that he is the embodiment of their tribal identity, not unlike Adolf Hitler.
Ergo Roman tick fallacy is still merely propaganda for the rape slave murder mass murder repeat and rape God story tellers ad naseum. Hit a non fiction section and dwell there.
The correct term is the "Christian Nationalist >Heresy"!<
"A great many" - 'None' might well be closer to the truth.
He’s no Jesus.
Trump is the anti-Christ and that is worse than being a fornicator/adulterer.
I wouldn't hold him in that high a regard. Satan has higher standards! 🤣 He's just another tired-assed little heretic with a high profile. See Jim Jones and Jonestown/
He is not Jesus! Lock him up!
Let 'en say anything they want, but lock him up!
Who cares? Just lock him up, or, at least vote against him!
Yes!!!! 💙🇺🇸💙 Best comment of the day!!!
And he will wear that label with pride. Because thats who he is. He will use it to rev up his misinformed masses of foolish followers. The unmagnanimous maga maggots will not care. To them he can do no wrong. No matter how much wrong he does. Or how bad. For they are either blind or just refuse to see. To admit to themselves that the one they follow, they put up on such a high pedestal, their "Super Savior" is not. Or can ever do any wrong. They will think and cheer and yell that he is such a strong powerful tough guy bad ass. For that impresses their naive immature minds. And he will just keep feeding them his lies and crap. Saying just what they want to hear. And they will just keep swallowing it down in blissful glee. And just keep on hating.
EVERY. DAMN. CHARGE: https://youtu.be/uYU_q-12qXs?si=NhODOf5lvJu1nRDa
Super duper comment. Short and sweet.
Matt B - This is my “like”. Although I can think of some others but they are not very nice;)
America's con man.
And we can only hope justice will be done in the other 3 felony cases against him. He should never be allowed near public office again, but for that
to happen we will have to depend on the wisdom of voters.
Bet'cha Putin, Orban, and Kim Jong-Un are all having a bit of a chuckle over the clown who liked to say the whole world is laughing at us!
I hope those two words are glued to every mention of DJT. Just like he attached ugly epithets to his opponents and people he feared.
That's a good one, but I don't ever want to see that face ever again. He's had way too much free press.
He's like a barnacle on the ass of time,enough!
no offense to actual barnacles....
That is a disservice to barnacles.
Perfect
Don't think.you've seen.the last.of him yet, Susan.Not by a long.shot!. Sad.to.say...
Sad but true. I wish this was all it took to make him go away.
A convicted felon can not hold a seat in Congress! In some states they can't vote either!
Or own a gun.
Laurie, he won't be able to vote here in Florida.
Well, that’s something, at least.
Nah. It's a big nothing-burger as it turns out. Sorry to disappoint you & the rest of the world, but that's what usually happens in the world's most corrupt s666-hole country.
That made me laugh out loud Peggy, thank you.
Yes, I remember when that rule was being challenged, arguing that if the convicted felon had served their sentence, they had paid their debt to society. But the challenge failed. Since he has property in other states, he can probably challenge that.
Of course he will! You can always expect the orange stain to challenge everything as long as it keeps him in the spotlight!!
Especially if he can get away with something! Or buy time.
The Democrats want to keep him in the spotlight too. He has been one of their favorite scapegoats. He has beena good focal point for hate. Nothing distracts a person more than hate.
tRUMP loves to keep himself in the spotlight!
He does a good job of this all by himself.
Adam Vandiver ; You would know, being so hateful and full of lies.
Still required to pay taxes. Taxation without representation. The government can't even follow guidelines.
Apparently the Supreme' MAGAs 'on the Court cannot follow guidelines either! All the MAGAts in Congress are disqualified for supporting the insurrection! The MAGAs on the Supreme Court: all 6 of them, are disabled under the 14th amendment: section 3 : disqualification clause as well. How convenient that they can 'just' strike it down and make it disappear! They violated their oaths of office when they overturned Roe vs Wade, making a law regarding Religion! And stripping over half of the population of the most basic rights to bodily autonomy! They are traitors who support a wanna be dictator
B.S.! tRUMP wants all the power and does not pay taxes like he should! He cheats steals and lies. Even cheats orphans with cancer ; is no longer allowed to run a charity!
MAGAs like tRUMP think it is smart to not pay taxes!
Ha hahaha! Funny! "Taxation without representation" for whom? The rich!?! B.S.
Adam: it is the other way around ; the very wealthy have a larger "megaphone, money is speech. They buy the courts and legislation that favors their interests! For a working person with modest income, it's like David facing Goliath! The thing is rigged in the favor of those who have Uber wealth and power. Unregulated wealth and media with no guardrails is incompatible with Democracy. Those on the bottom are closer to being slaves. The idea of self rule in a Democracy is fading fast.This is "taxation without representation " to the Max! Gingrich had it upside down. If anyone is overdue for a Tea Party it's those who actually work for a living! It's coming, too.
Adam Vandiver : The obscenely wealthy don't even follow guidelines: especially when it comes to taxes.
Adam : And tRump can? 🙄 there is a bridge that he will sell you near the jurisdiction where he earned his Felony Conviction!
Corrupt DeSanctimonious has already promised to fix the law in Fla so that DJT can legally vote.
It figures, Chen! Accountability for thee but not for me!
Voter suppression?
That's actually incorrect. The Constitution clearly delineates what qualifies a citizen to be eligible to run for President, a Federal office. Which means that States _can't_ keep a convicted felon from being on the ballot. (Federal Law trumps State Law.) [pun intended]
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/presidential-qualifications-felony-crime-convictions/3518094/
Thank you for posting this. I think that many people misunderstand the difference between state and federal qualifications for office. I wish that today’s verdict would bar him from the office of the president, but, unfortunately, it doesn’t.
Gina ; It is all interpretation. The disqualification clause is pretty clear. " Those who have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution ; After having taken that oath engaged in an insurrection to interfere with the functioning of government. they sought to stop the certification of votes in a presidential election, thus violating their oaths of office.
Interpretation is key here as some things in the Constitution, or in its amendments, are clearly delineated while others are more open to debate. Unfortunately, participating in a traitorous act isn’t as cut and dried as it should be. There are few specific requirements for holding federal offices, but having a clean criminal record isn’t one of them.
CP ; I was talking about a convicted felon not being able to hold a seat in Congress, not being able to be on the ballot for a presidential election.
https://www.voanews.com/a/can-felons-serve-in-us-elected-federal-offices-/7014217.html
Can convicted felons serve in Congress?
Yes. As with the presidency, the U.S. Constitution has set few requirements for serving in Congress. House members must be at least 25 years old, have been a U.S. citizen for at least seven years, and live in the state they represent. Senators have similar requirements, but their residency requirement is extended to nine years, and they must be at least 30 years old. There is no mention of criminal records.
I must have read misinformation
Touché, Sis.
This may be true of all/most/some Representatives and Senators. (I’m not sure because I haven’t done the research on all the states.) However, it unfortunately does not apply to the office of the President which is under federal jurisdiction.
yes, with the voters weighing in, hopefully, in a "free and fair election". We had a remedy against traitors, and lawlessness ; The 14th amendment section 3 ; the disqualification
clause! I don't know if there is a challenge to the way the Supreme Court MAGAs just ignored that . It would be concerning if they can just get away with trashing settled law and nullifying the Constitution.
We have a remedy against tyranny also. November 5th, 2024.
Yes ; that is what I wrote ; "with the voters weighing in"; But the remedy against having a traitor on the ballot was there, as I stated. 14th amendment. The "Supreme Court" discarded the remedy provided in the Constitution to remove disabled traitors from their seats in government and on the bench of the Supreme Court, and federal courts.
Traitor now?
Don't get too far out over your skis.
Robert ;If the MAGATs 'win', you will find out that their "remedy" against tyranny is not all it's cracked up to be.
Great Comment Susan: I agree completely. The Corporate media has acted as his press agent for 40 years.
He hasn't been brought to justice yet. He was found guilty, but our legal system is built to let rich white men like him evade actual justice. If and when he's actually in prison, then we can talk about him being brought to justice. Until such time it's way too early to celebrate.
He will appeal to The Supreme Court and his supporters there will overturn the conviction before Election Day.
I would bet the ranch that the 3 “justices” he appointed will refuse to recuse themselves.
They have no power there. One; these crimes were committed before tfg became president & two; they have no jurisdiction on account these were State crimes, not federal crimes.
I don’t know all the ins and outs of the court system, but he could not be pardoned by a president {meaning himself}.
I don’t know about SCOTUS.
Maybe that’s federal and out of their jurisdiction. I’m not really sure.
That would be cool, if he could not be helped by all his powerful buddies. But I think someone said his case will go there.
Not sure if they could GET it there before November — it has to go through more local appeals …
If the SCOTUS did actually just give him a pass, that would be a VERY dicey thing to have happen … It would NOT get him re-elected …
Hmmm, now must look up jurisdictions … Mmmmph.
I’m still happy he’s convicted. So delicious.
{Some of what I read suggests if a verdict in state court is interwoven with federal statutes, it might bring in SCOTUS jurisdiction — It all gets pretty arcane to me. Right now, I’m happy Donny’s a convict.}
This is a state ruling. SCOTUS has no jurisdiction in this case. Take a big breath.
SCOTUS and state rulings are not intertwined. Where did you get that idea? We are all so traumatized by TFG. Don’t worry. He can only go to the states court of appeals and Judge Merchan did an excellent job of doing everything by the book and air tight. Do not worry.
I got the idea from reading an article that said if a state charge and verdict is intertwined with a federal charge or statute, there could be some crossover…. Listening to coverage today, the manner in which the misdemeanors in this trial were raised to felonies had to do with connecting them to OTHER crimes. Misdemeanors of this type committed during the commission of ANOTHER crime makes it a felony. And in a few of the charges in this case, federal statutes were cited [I’m not sure if it was related to taxes, or what.]
I really have NO idea if the type of thing Trump is convicted of is what was referred to in discussing how a state charge can be reviewed by federal appeals courts… Which is why I said, “D’uh! I just hope nobody can draw a line from this to SCOTUS.” I know the charges are state jurisdiction and ONLY state jurisdiction. I know a number of charges are brought against him in other states that preclude any federal involvement. I’m just not absolutely sure about this one, given the complexity of the case that was brought to raise his many misdemeanors to the level of complex felonies.
I’m hoping you are right.
I follow Elizabeth Conrise McGaughlin and from what I understand when the payments were falsified to look like a campaign contribution and then Cohen was “reimbursed” for supposed legal services that were not real, that’s when it was hiked to a felony. But TFG was violating New York State campaign finance laws. And that is why it was tried in a New York State court and not federal. But you may be on to something as it was also the federal campaign laws that were broken too. But all of it occurred under New York jurisdiction. We shall see. I will ask that question to ECM tomorrow. Look her up on Patreon.
Excellent … I so want to be SO wrong that there’s any threat of federal taint here.
Thanks for the info …
I'm not so sure about that. Being that Trump is running for president and is a former president the Supreme Court can hear an appeal of a state court case if a substantial federal question is present. I'm sure Trump's lawyers are working overtime to find that loophole.
I think the only way SCOTUS could even hear the case would be if there was a violation of constitution rights in the process of the trial. Notice how careful the judge was about every single trial rule right down to the gag order violations.
In the NY Times today the Supreme Court was brought up in an article about his appeal.
On Fox News Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, said that the Supreme Court should take up Mr. Trump’s cause.
This is going to drag on for years.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/31/nyregion/trump-trial-appeal.html
And in the meantime he does time because he was convicted of a felony and not a misdemeanor.
What federal question? He broke New York State laws. Not federal laws.
Since when do Republicans let laws get in the way? They'll probably make up some blatant bullshit, the fascists on the supreme court will go for it, and the news orgs will run a couple days of articles about how "surprising" and "unprecedented" it all is before they go right back to the election horse race coverage and doing their best to swing it in his favor so they can keep raking in those sweet sweet ratings.
They re-write laws in quasi-legal ways so as to
'win,' but when they 'lose' (as with this trial), they
wail and whine about hunting witches and about 'being innocent.' Boo, meet Hoo!
That's up to Trump's lawyers to figure out. He is running for president and is the first president to be a convicted felon. Given how much the majority of the SCOTUS is in Trump's camp nothing would surprise me.
That said, Trump could get 4 years for each of the 34 counts. I doubt that's going happen though.
That’s what I’ve been thinking Jeff. The allegations had to do with New York state law and he was tried in a New York state court. So supposedly his appeal
can only go to the highest state court. But, if his attorneys can come up with a valid federal issue,
it could make its way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
You clearly didn't follow the trial at all to make such an ignorant statement. This trial will set the record for reversible error AND unconstitutional rulings and jury instructions absolutely can be heard by SCOTUS.
You're the one who didn't follow things, bud.
Would you like to back that up with any facts?
How about you get your news from an actual source instead of fox? Not my fault you decided to part ways with reality.
Yes: let's enjoy this for at least a little while!
Laurie …. I’m eating chocolate and very happy.
I'm having an adult beverage tomorrow!
LOL … do enjoy it!!
I did the same yesterday evening, after seeing/hearing the verdicts on all 34 counts, I savored my chocolate!
I savored butter pecan….
I am SO absolutely surprised and pleased at this verdict.
His lawyers had a chance to challenge and reject partisan jurors. I was worried about “a lone hold out.”
Now, the unending litany of “supporters” harping on his “innocence” begins …
We who believe this verdict need to be louder and more sure than his deluded defenders.
I hear he is warning other Republicans not the seek donations for their own campaigns on the strength of this verdict — he wants any and all sympathy money to come to him. How can Republicans put up with him!?
The Left needs to reach the Deluded with facts like this - somehow we need to reach through the fog and show them what he is…his core incompetence and rottenness.
There is a RawStory out this morning quoting a producer on Trump’s old TV show, the Apprentice, talking about how the show had to make extra, controlled and scripted recordings of Trump and edit them into the show’s footage to clear up his massive confusing and incomprehensible dialogue on the set {he couldn’t remember people’s names, rambled on inanely, and was often randomly misogynistic and racist!}.
Things like that are what might reach his sycophants. They will reject political lectures — but showing him up to be The Phony Behind the Curtain is a task for the next few months.
The fact that he is "warning" other Republicans not to campaign using the verdict shows how he wants to end all competition from other members of his party. He is a bully and imitates a mob boss. If he retaliates against them,, that will expose him more for what he is.. just bad news.. For them as well as everyone else.
Yes Pat : Mean people suck, and he can be mean even to his supporters and those in his "own" party!
Indeed; let’s do.
Since when have Republicans let trifling little things like laws get in their way, though?
What crimes did the so called unanimous jury convict him of? Be specific.
Here is the Jury sheet of the charges.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24706184-trump-verdict-sheet
Thanks for that. More will be revealed.
You’re welcome.
This was a state court ruling. The Supreme Court has no jurisdiction in this case just like a president can’t pardon him because it’s a state court not a federal court ruling. Take a big breath of relief.
this won't make it to the Supreme Court- it's a state case based upon state principles and laws unless the defense is alleging that the state law is unconstitutional- and that's not the case here. It could go to a NY appellate court if they can allege a reversible error or other such important issue which would necessitate the state appellate court to take it and as much as I have read and listened, I don't see grounds- ineffective counsel? (teasing).
Excellent response.
Let’s hope that the justices do the right thing if/when the case comes before them. (“Hope” being the operative word here.)
As someone once told me... Live in hope, die in desperation.
Though I am still hopeful, generally speaking.
Don't be denied.
Apathy is silly.
Focus on what is Civic Duty. Djt has no honor valor merit and he could a woulda should a lived out his weird pointless life pressing a button for his beverage...but nooo000oo.
Alito, has already refused to recuse.
And to get there he has to first exhaust his options in New York. Then he will most likely have to wait until October when SCOTUS gets back in session after summer break and then it has to be picked up by SCOTUS and then that probably won’t happen until after the election. In the meantime he will be in custody of some sort.
Of course. Why would they do that? They were put on the court for just such an occasion.
Let us All Hope Not! Please do not put that kind of energy into the air.
Rubber room 'em. Give the secret sevice a post to live a comfortable life . Bet a Lincoln penny he can not stop whining.
I mean, he started as soon as he could talk and kept going this long. He's not likely to stop while he's still breathing.
You’re right. He scuttled away, a free man, right after the verdict was delivered.
He has a sentencing hearing on July 11th and because he committed a felony he will have to be in some form of custody.
I'll believe it when I see him in an orange jumpsuit.
You are right, let the dust settle!
Unfortunately what you say is 100% true! 😤
I HEAR YOU
@Lucius. IMHO he'll try to "post" his lawyers alleging they were/are incompetent.
THE NEW YORK CPL 440 MOTION
A CPL 440 motion seeks to reverse a defendant’s conviction based on facts that are off the record (i.e. facts or issues that do not appear in the transcripts of the proceedings in the trial level court). Such motions can be made before or after the direct appeal has been submitted to the appellate court. However, the 440 motion is not filed with an appellate court. It is filed with the judge in the trial court who presided over the defendant’s trial or plea. No notice of appeal needs to be filed to preserve a defendant’s right to file a CPL 440 motion in the trial court.
Doin' it anyway,a good first step!
You right
I wish I wasn't...
DJT will never be "brought to justice" until he's put behind bars for the rest of his unnatural life w/o probation or parole. He's a career criminal & a traitor, not a patriot, to his native country. AFAIC, he's earned the right to choose his method of public execution: hanging, firing squad, electric chair, or lethal injection After his corpse has been cremated, the ashes should be buried next to his late wife's at Bedminster Golf Club's 1st hole.
An eye for an eye. Trump is responsible for a half a million covid deaths. Trump and the GOP cult can never be brought to Justice.
Hang him with Pence in attendance!
A hanging on the National Mall AFTER HIS CONVICTIONS IN HIS INSURRECTION AND ESPIONAGE CASES to EXORCISE THE SINS OF SLAVERY HE SO PROUDLY ENGAGED IN THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE!
The CATHARSIS FOR THE COUNTRY WOULD BE IMMENSE!
No. They should be dumped into the nearest septic tank, and a memorial public restroom raised over it in commemoration.
👍
alot of bloggers on Matt Taibbi's blog show including Matt cheer for Trump and insist that he was 'unfairly prosecuted in NY' and some say 'they will now donate to Trump because of the 34 unfair felony convictions'.
And alot of the bloggers on Robert Reich's blog show cheer Bidens billions sent to back Netanyahu's genocide in Gaza and Bidens proxy war against Russia,.
Of course the Trump and Biden supporters disagree and some hate each other but they are actually joined at the hip.
The Republican lie continues--
The statement "these charges should have never been brought" uttered by none other than Author Aidala of CNN. Trump is an influential man with questionable ethics, and he feels he has a get out of jail free card at his disposal whenever the need presents itself. He had 34 indictments against him, not just one. Twelve men and women selected by both sides of this legal mess heard the evidence and determined Trump to be guilty on all counts. There was no conspiracy, no government sponsored election interference. President Biden had no part in this debacle, it was all Donald Trump. The man acted like a crook, he got caught and now he's a convicted felon. You skate on thin ice and sooner or later you're bound to break through.
What charges? Be specific.
the 34 felony counts are in the Complaint. In essence, falsifying business records.
I don't relate to what you're talking about.
Weak, Hodgins. That's because you don't know. Why dont you admit that? The stupidest voting cohort in American history allows their feelings to rule them. Facts are inconsequential to Trump Derangement Syndrome which has now resulted in millions applauding a Berian show trial.
Robert--Say what you will, it won't change the fact that history will remember Trump as a convicted felon.
History was made, that's for certain.
Robert--With all the people out to choose from why get behind a mentally deranged Laier, a sexual deviate, and a fraud. They had John Kasic, a good man, right there and instead they picked an ass over him. The Republican party is all but done if they don't ditch Trump, the man is crazy, a fascist, and a convicted felon. Nice choice. 1:11
Robert --All squirrels can fly; however, some don't land well.
Lol.
The American people chose DJT and will again.
The Democrats always choose subterfuge.
I wish you all the best.
As long as it’s not another Trump grift..!
President Biden should maintain his position of keeping distance to all Justice! Except under strenuous circumstances!
Stick to your message of Roe vs Wade, the protection of our women, gun culture, Immigration and border, a stronger Justice department, the economy, more the usual!
Keep distance to all of Trump, this is not a good time for getting in the middle of it, it is by far not done yet! What about crimes committed in the context of Jan 6, Election interference and the secret documents issue!
What’s still hidden?
Do not pardon Trump!
Guilty of what? Be specific.
There were 34 charges. Go read them.