I was one of the women bussed to the men’s colleges and I can unequivocally say that we loved it! It was a rare chance to meet men at similar colleges, dance, etc. I went to Smith, a women’s college in rural Massachusetts; we went to dances at Amherst (rural men’s college) and UMass, and it was great fun, and entirely voluntary! And of course there were buses back. So thank you Robert for helping to arrange these fun social events.
I went to Smith as well. 2023 is my 50th reunion. Every fall we had house mixers to which we invited men from nearby colleges: Amherst, Yale, Williams, Dartmouth. That was the culture back then. Nothing to be regretful about.
Something else that has changed since then: nearly all the men in my husband's family went to Amherst. Our daughter went to Amherst in the late 90's and our son attended Connecticut College which had been all female and where most of the women in my husband's family went. My husband and I attended Mass, where we met.
It means so much to hear you tell the truth about something you did in the past which shames you so many years later. We all carry shame, for every reason under the sun, for things we did long ago. Most of us keep that shame hidden from the world, terrified of being attacked for past errors. To be able to come out and speak one's truth, without being judged, is an enormous blessing. I thank you so much for telling this story about your long-ago actions, the consequence of your actions -- and then the beautiful ending to your story. The man's delighted reaction to see you says a LOT about you!
Absolutely! Sociopaths are incapable of feeling shame. As the orange sadist once said in an interview, "I have never apologized for anything, because I have never done anything wrong." When I heard that, I remember cringing + feeling absolutely horrified. Never once have I personally heard those words pass the lips of a human being. "Have you ever asked God for forgiveness?" "No, like I said, I've never done anything wrong." Perhaps a better answer would have been: "Who's (what's) God?"
Dec 26, 2022·edited Dec 27, 2022Liked by Robert Reich
Indeed: "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump" was widely criticized because we (psychiatrists and psychologists) are not permitted to analyze public figures from afar. At the same time, it gave crucial information to readers who needed to know exactly what lay ahead of us. Far too important to stay silent. (I myself was criticized for speaking publicly about the fascistic ideals and actions of the orange sadist.)
Thank you so much. I agree: it was the duty of those of us who could see the creature for what he really is to speak up. Silence would have been consent.
That TFG was unfit for the office of President was easily seen from enormous amounts of publicly available information. The people who voted for him thought it was to their advantage to do so. Do you wonder if Mitch McConnell wrote somebody in?
It's so horrible. As a little girl, I tried and tried to figure out why the Germans let Hitler do what he did. I never came up with an answer. What a shock to find myself in the same situation, feeling so helpless, as many Germans had to have felt.
Many out of my class were drafted. I grew up in a small farming community in Illinois. No one was going to expensive colleges. Many died there, many from cancers and illnesses from agent orange, many continue to suffer from PTSD, and many remain homeless. They returned to a society that blamed them for fighting in that horrible war instead of blaming the government, People I loved suffered terribly. This is another example of the haves and have nots showing the lack of empathy and understanding by the haves for those who fight and work for them. No one is perfect, I see there is still room for growth
Consciousness raising was in its early days then, but it's nuts that someone was expelled for a mutually consensual relationship. It shouldn't have been anybody's business, and had it occurred just a few years down the road, you probably would have stood up and said so.
So happy he was ok. I am also glad that you could stop punishing yourself.
The policy of expulsion for having sex was, of course, ridiculous and hypocritical, but I doubt you would have been able to change it had you protested. You were stuck in the rules of that time.
The most important piece of information that has been confirmed by your anecdote is that you have a conscience and the capacity to feel empathy, qualities that many officials in government today are sadly lacking.
We don’t know the vet was OK. I have never met a Vietnam war vet that was OK. I would rather hear the raw truth and an acknowledgment that what was done was wrong, and what has been or is happening to make amends. Thoughts, prayers, apologies don’t really do,much without follow up action.
Ok As in alive and all physically in one piece. I think that was what he meant. Ditto: WWI and WWII, Korea and all the other conflicts around the globe where we have sent young men into hell. And the government that sent them there should give them the best of treatment instead of spending tons and tons of money on the military budget so more young men can be sent to war, to kill and be killed, to maim and maimed.
We all have done things in another time which we now regret. Sometimes, like yourself, we get to make amends and are often forgiven as you were by your college friend. Coming clean while we can to those we have wronged is good for everyone.
Prof Reich--thank you for opening up to all of us about this incident. You are certainly absolved now of any stain for your role in it. It’s fitting that the other young man bore you no ill will later--that’s the nature of grace. Ah, if only more people in power could own up to when they are wrong, instead of continuing to insist on digging in deeper.
If I were you I would find another group for support. I think you have made your point. This is a poor white woman response. In case you want to vent your considerable anger on me. This group is primarily focused political issues. Such as saving Democracy. Because if you think it is bad now…..
You’re glad? what does that mean? Don’t you want to know what that vet has suffered and will for the rest of his life? I don’t feel like letting Robert off the hook so quickly.
I'm a Vietnam combat myself. I was sad initially because I feared what might have befallen the fellow.
But when Robert said they had a big, heartfelt hug 20 years later, I figured the fellow must've come through okay -- or maybe didn't even make it into combat.
Sure, when I first read that passage, Robert fell a tiny bit in my estimation, even though I could see the shame he felt. So I was glad that he acknowledged his error.
When I first got out of Fitzsimmons Army Hospital and had my head halfway screwed back on, two of my friends -- one a teammate on our high school wrestling team and the other what I thought was my best bud at our Columbia fraternity -- spun on their heels when they saw me and strode silently, self-righteously away.
I would like to think either of them felt even a tiny bit of the shame Robert acknowledges.
I am a RVN vet. I don't remember anyone mistreating me because of my service in Nam. What I do remember is silence. I got back from Nam to utter silence and total lack of recognition. I felt like a ghost. I lost a year of my life and it was not even a blip in the memory of anyone except me.
It would appear that you have the empathy of a slug and that is probably insulting to the slug. Don’t worry about your extreme sensitivities. I will not post again. Enjoy your one sided view.
Two comments: First, we make SO many mistakes when we're young. May we ALL be forgiven for them. I am delighted your young friend found you and that he survived -- and that you did, too. Expelling him was a terrible thing, but "fornication" was widely held to be a mortal sin in those days, and you didn't invent that. However, bussing the girls in was not morally wrong, or if people think so, then please go picket the church that held "socials" so kids could get dates and dance the night away--but under careful, watchful eyes. ... Second, I went to an all girls school in the South during the Vietnam War. The men bussed in were soldiers from the local military base, which was daily shipping troops off to Vietnam. We danced and promised to write. By the time left for California, I had a stack of letters from half a dozen soldiers with whom I had danced and with whom I corresponded regularly. By the time this "police action" was over, half of them were dead. I am so happy I didn't miss the opportunity to make their brief, bright lives a little happier.
Your experience sounds like many from WW2, as Dobie Gillis’s father called “the big one.” Soldiers are like jail inmates, who crave contact from outside. Congratulations to you, who kept up your side of the bargain.
I was one of the women bussed to the men’s colleges and I can unequivocally say that we loved it! It was a rare chance to meet men at similar colleges, dance, etc. I went to Smith, a women’s college in rural Massachusetts; we went to dances at Amherst (rural men’s college) and UMass, and it was great fun, and entirely voluntary! And of course there were buses back. So thank you Robert for helping to arrange these fun social events.
I went to Smith as well. 2023 is my 50th reunion. Every fall we had house mixers to which we invited men from nearby colleges: Amherst, Yale, Williams, Dartmouth. That was the culture back then. Nothing to be regretful about.
Something else that has changed since then: nearly all the men in my husband's family went to Amherst. Our daughter went to Amherst in the late 90's and our son attended Connecticut College which had been all female and where most of the women in my husband's family went. My husband and I attended Mass, where we met.
It means so much to hear you tell the truth about something you did in the past which shames you so many years later. We all carry shame, for every reason under the sun, for things we did long ago. Most of us keep that shame hidden from the world, terrified of being attacked for past errors. To be able to come out and speak one's truth, without being judged, is an enormous blessing. I thank you so much for telling this story about your long-ago actions, the consequence of your actions -- and then the beautiful ending to your story. The man's delighted reaction to see you says a LOT about you!
It also says a lot about him :-)
YES!!!
Absolutely! Sociopaths are incapable of feeling shame. As the orange sadist once said in an interview, "I have never apologized for anything, because I have never done anything wrong." When I heard that, I remember cringing + feeling absolutely horrified. Never once have I personally heard those words pass the lips of a human being. "Have you ever asked God for forgiveness?" "No, like I said, I've never done anything wrong." Perhaps a better answer would have been: "Who's (what's) God?"
Drumpf’s god is evidently the god of pragmatism.
I tend to think that he worships Mammon.
🤣
Indeed: "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump" was widely criticized because we (psychiatrists and psychologists) are not permitted to analyze public figures from afar. At the same time, it gave crucial information to readers who needed to know exactly what lay ahead of us. Far too important to stay silent. (I myself was criticized for speaking publicly about the fascistic ideals and actions of the orange sadist.)
Thank you for doing so. To not have would have been to shirk your duty to warn.
Thank you so much. I agree: it was the duty of those of us who could see the creature for what he really is to speak up. Silence would have been consent.
That TFG was unfit for the office of President was easily seen from enormous amounts of publicly available information. The people who voted for him thought it was to their advantage to do so. Do you wonder if Mitch McConnell wrote somebody in?
Fascinating idea. (Or left it blank?)
It's so horrible. As a little girl, I tried and tried to figure out why the Germans let Hitler do what he did. I never came up with an answer. What a shock to find myself in the same situation, feeling so helpless, as many Germans had to have felt.
Many out of my class were drafted. I grew up in a small farming community in Illinois. No one was going to expensive colleges. Many died there, many from cancers and illnesses from agent orange, many continue to suffer from PTSD, and many remain homeless. They returned to a society that blamed them for fighting in that horrible war instead of blaming the government, People I loved suffered terribly. This is another example of the haves and have nots showing the lack of empathy and understanding by the haves for those who fight and work for them. No one is perfect, I see there is still room for growth
So terribly sad. Agree with you 100% about the "Haves" lacking appreciation for the sacrifices of the "Have Nots".
It is possible that comment was not for you. This format can be confusing.
Do you think that's what she's doing? I don't read it that way at all.
Understood.
Whew! Glad it all ended well. You have paid for that unfortunate decision for many years. Glad you can rest easy.
You are a mensch. And you were made so in some part by his generous heart. A fine holiday story, however you celebrate (or not).
Consciousness raising was in its early days then, but it's nuts that someone was expelled for a mutually consensual relationship. It shouldn't have been anybody's business, and had it occurred just a few years down the road, you probably would have stood up and said so.
Mutually consensual *heterosexual* relationship (of all things!)...
= D
So happy he was ok. I am also glad that you could stop punishing yourself.
The policy of expulsion for having sex was, of course, ridiculous and hypocritical, but I doubt you would have been able to change it had you protested. You were stuck in the rules of that time.
The most important piece of information that has been confirmed by your anecdote is that you have a conscience and the capacity to feel empathy, qualities that many officials in government today are sadly lacking.
We don’t know the vet was OK. I have never met a Vietnam war vet that was OK. I would rather hear the raw truth and an acknowledgment that what was done was wrong, and what has been or is happening to make amends. Thoughts, prayers, apologies don’t really do,much without follow up action.
Ok As in alive and all physically in one piece. I think that was what he meant. Ditto: WWI and WWII, Korea and all the other conflicts around the globe where we have sent young men into hell. And the government that sent them there should give them the best of treatment instead of spending tons and tons of money on the military budget so more young men can be sent to war, to kill and be killed, to maim and maimed.
Well, you just made my day. Nothing better than a redemption story to make us feel whole. Zai gezunt.
Yes, one must be forgiven to feel whole again.
Amen to that, ai gezunt!
2 great men hugged that day. (typed through my tears).
Impossible not to well up after reading that post!
We all have done things in another time which we now regret. Sometimes, like yourself, we get to make amends and are often forgiven as you were by your college friend. Coming clean while we can to those we have wronged is good for everyone.
Prof Reich--thank you for opening up to all of us about this incident. You are certainly absolved now of any stain for your role in it. It’s fitting that the other young man bore you no ill will later--that’s the nature of grace. Ah, if only more people in power could own up to when they are wrong, instead of continuing to insist on digging in deeper.
how is he off the hook? what has he done to make amends? Sounds like a rich white man response
If I were you I would find another group for support. I think you have made your point. This is a poor white woman response. In case you want to vent your considerable anger on me. This group is primarily focused political issues. Such as saving Democracy. Because if you think it is bad now…..
How heartwarming. That episode made me sad when I read it this morning. I'm glad it worked out the way it did.
Fornication in the 60s. Who wouldathunk?
You’re glad? what does that mean? Don’t you want to know what that vet has suffered and will for the rest of his life? I don’t feel like letting Robert off the hook so quickly.
I'm a Vietnam combat myself. I was sad initially because I feared what might have befallen the fellow.
But when Robert said they had a big, heartfelt hug 20 years later, I figured the fellow must've come through okay -- or maybe didn't even make it into combat.
Sure, when I first read that passage, Robert fell a tiny bit in my estimation, even though I could see the shame he felt. So I was glad that he acknowledged his error.
When I first got out of Fitzsimmons Army Hospital and had my head halfway screwed back on, two of my friends -- one a teammate on our high school wrestling team and the other what I thought was my best bud at our Columbia fraternity -- spun on their heels when they saw me and strode silently, self-righteously away.
I would like to think either of them felt even a tiny bit of the shame Robert acknowledges.
I am a RVN vet. I don't remember anyone mistreating me because of my service in Nam. What I do remember is silence. I got back from Nam to utter silence and total lack of recognition. I felt like a ghost. I lost a year of my life and it was not even a blip in the memory of anyone except me.
Are you bound and determined to disagree and pick apart every single thing expressed on this post? You must be a very unhappy person.
It would appear that you have the empathy of a slug and that is probably insulting to the slug. Don’t worry about your extreme sensitivities. I will not post again. Enjoy your one sided view.
??? You first liked the comment. Do you feel you have the right to censor my honest response?
It's incidents like this, which we all have, that keeps us humble.......or should ;-)
Also thankful for those who forgive.
What a relief for you! I’m glad the two of you had a positive - and healing - reconnection.
Thank you for disclosing the relief of your confession.
Life is complex. Glad you got an answer that lightened your load. We can only carry so much. Happy Holidays my fellow flawed human. ❤️
Two comments: First, we make SO many mistakes when we're young. May we ALL be forgiven for them. I am delighted your young friend found you and that he survived -- and that you did, too. Expelling him was a terrible thing, but "fornication" was widely held to be a mortal sin in those days, and you didn't invent that. However, bussing the girls in was not morally wrong, or if people think so, then please go picket the church that held "socials" so kids could get dates and dance the night away--but under careful, watchful eyes. ... Second, I went to an all girls school in the South during the Vietnam War. The men bussed in were soldiers from the local military base, which was daily shipping troops off to Vietnam. We danced and promised to write. By the time left for California, I had a stack of letters from half a dozen soldiers with whom I had danced and with whom I corresponded regularly. By the time this "police action" was over, half of them were dead. I am so happy I didn't miss the opportunity to make their brief, bright lives a little happier.
Your experience sounds like many from WW2, as Dobie Gillis’s father called “the big one.” Soldiers are like jail inmates, who crave contact from outside. Congratulations to you, who kept up your side of the bargain.