I agree. The attack on the Capitol wasn’t just the riotous mob. It included attempts to validate false electors and to pressure the VP to obstruct proceedings. Only when those failed was their violence. This is not about selecting a leader but about the leader, whoever it may be, being forced to continue obstruction and destruction through the instrument of the House. As Perry (one of the anti-McCarthy voters and o e who was very active on 1/6) tweeted about what’s happening now:
(The anti-McCarthy Republicans) want to change things fundamentally here so this place works for the American people. And we’re not going to stop going until we get that one way or the other. Either we have the tools to do it, or we have the personnel to do it. It’s going to be one, or the other.
“the American people” is dog whistle for white Christians and others who receive their approval, not the general voting populace. It’s interesting to speculate about what Perry, a longtime military veteran, believes the “tools” and “personnel” are, especially when thinking in terms of an ongoing insurrection against Democracy..
Edited one word above. Autocorrect changed “destruction” to “distraction”. I meant literal destruction. One of the demands of the rebelling GOP representatives is that they want to force the government to default on its debt. Maybe they just want to hold the country hostage to get even more concessions than they’ve already been promised but their stated goal is to destroy this government. We should take that seriously. They are actively performing insurrection. Now.
Kathy, I do believe you are correct that this insanity going on in the House this week is a kind of insurrection. A non-entity who has nothing to offer anyone is trying to get elected Speaker, now on the 15th vote. Everyone in the House knows that Kevin McCarthy has no leadership ability, just a desperate need to be recognized but he is a fool and is trying to get the insurgents to be bribed to vote for him at the possible sacrifice of our nation. That is just nuts, but the insurgents don't seem to be able to be stopped. Yo Garland, get things moving so the American people will actually know that the insurrectionists at the heart of this move toward fascism is being stopped. It's time!
It's way past time. Those insurrectionists should already be long gone. Then we wouldn't have had to go through this ordeal. Jeffries would be the new Speaker.
Yesterday my husband and I took metro into DC to the “ Our Freedom, Our Vote” rally out by the reflection pool in front of the Capitol. Excellent speakers ( Martin Luther King III, his wife , powerful speaker, young leaders, veterans , Common Cause, Rep. Sarbanes between votes, Sierra Clubs’ leader and how many citizens? About 40 ( maybe) . We were energized and disappointed. Was it cold? Yes.
Every little bit helps but as the retired Veteran of several wars said” we wouldn’t have to put up with this “_ _ it” if our Law makers were doing their job. The American people will only have so much attention span for really important issues if something BIG doesn’t interfere with their need to be entertained and not detained!
The whole world is waiting and watching .... are we a country of Laws? Or are we
Jean, I actually think we are full of bull because we have the "lofty" language, but have little to no will to back it up. I am so pleased you got to the gathering yesterday. That is one thing I miss so much by not living in the DC area anymore and not having close friends or relatives there anymore either. I found participating in marches and protests really important in my life. We do have some events in my current location, but though I had poor vision when I lived near DC, my vision is now gone and hanging in crowds alone doesn't work for me anymore. I do try to cheer on the people who do attend and I try to keep up with writing my representatives at all levels and have a blog, but I suspect none of my comments or contributions get through to anyone. After watching the nonsense this week in the House, I am beginning to lose faith that we can fix this any time soon. The Republican insurgents care about themselves only and what kinds of power they can get to do their best to wreck our democracy. They don't even hide it. The media acts like this is some kind of norm when it is a norm of the right-wing folks who did their best to plan and carry out a coup on behalf of an appalling human being who cares about this nation even less than the, the MAGAs do. Now we've got the non-entity Kevin McCarthy as Speaker. This was his life-s goal. He doesn't care that he was rejected 14 times and had to sell his soul to get the final vote and that he has no respect among the members just as he has no respect for them. The guys who took the floor to nominate him had a really hard time coming up with sufficient lies about his qualities (They sure did lie with enthusiasm, though). He has no ability or talent for the job yet they all claimed he did, with no evidence whatsoever because McCarthy had done nothing for anyone except as he claims, get many of the new representatives elected, and that claim is right now, without evidence, of course. The MAGA crowd is salivating over getting committee assignments they do not deserve and being able to shut down the government in September unless they get cuts to all the programs that actually help Americans. I would love to be pleasantly surprised that McCarthy could lead the House to passing a strong voting rights bill, a child tax credit, continued help for Ukraine, work to end global warming, and a few other things, but none of that will happen. Yo Hunter Biden, you are now going to be the only thing the House Republicans care about and, frankly, you are not worth the trouble, nothing personal or mean, just the truth, but McCarthy et al will be investigating every aspect of your difficult life as if you have done things worse than they have done. You never tried to attack our government or plan and carry out a coup as many of them have. Keep the faith and just keep reminding yourself that these folks are bigger criminals than you are if indeed you are a criminal which I doubt.
Jean, I’m really glad you got out to the rally in Washington. I would love to have gone! Don’t be too disappointed. Marches and rallies are only the tip of the iceberg, they are most often used to energize and educate, they’re not expected to directly cause change. I work for a grassroots good government group in my state which, along with Common Cause and other groups, held a rally on 1/3 in our state capital. The turnout wasn’t gigantic and it wasn’t expected to be. But those who were there also went to legislators’ offices with literature. And the media covered the event. And there are recordings to share with legislators and the public. Our group has thousands of members in every county of the state. They participate in whatever ways they can, some small, some bigger and a few are heroes, working every day. The point I’m making is that a lot of real work goes on behind the scenes every day and each of us can join in when we have time. A rally can be an invitation to new members to join the network.
I mean, yes, lots and lots of people are just watching and waiting to see what happens. I put some responsibility for this on our for-profit media. There is a conflict of interest when you depend on sensationalism and an attitude of grabbing the popcorn bag (references literally inside the House this week) for your paycheck but you are supposed to be helping to create an informed, engaged and educated public. What happened this week was a clear sign of an active insurrection. It’s being portrayed as a clown show, and now that the speaker is defined, everyone is running off to look for the next clown car coming down the road. Those of us who have time to volunteer need to patiently keep trying to win over as many people as we can. It’s also helpful to learn as much as we can about nonviolent organizing. Many good places have online resources and trainings and they network with each other.
No, as New Mexico just used it to throw out an admitted insurrectionist. Their actions, and conspiracies and what come out of their mouths, qualifies them for expulsion. Read the New Mexico docs on the case. Just google
Kathy, Perry should not even be in Congress after his participation 2 years ago, but somehow we can't get Congress or state governments to declare anyone involved with the insurrection ineligible to run for any federal or state office. It is in our Constitution, but alas, swearing an oath to protect and defend our Constitution does not mean that the oath-taker has to do it. Republicans have proven that pretty regularly for the past 8 years and more.
Ruth Sheets ; It blows my mind that there seems to be no answer to the crime spree assault on Washington. Oaths of office are a mere mockery, it looks like: almost a guarantee of bad behavior from the Congress to the 'Supreme Court'!
Laurie, don't you just love it? Republicans raise their right hand, supposedly indicating a solemnity about the words to be spoken, if they are spoken. Since it is done as a group, Repubs can tell themselves that they really didn't say anything at the swearing in. It doesn't matter anyway because as you say, the oaths the MAGAs take mean nothing to them or mean something quite warped and twisted out of shape. These folks almost to a person claim to be good little Christians while lying through their teeth. I guess they think lying and cheating are OK with god because it's "for a greater good," themselves and god should understand that, right! I do wish the founders had cared more about the American people, not just the rich white slave owners when putting our document together. There is nothing we the people can do directly about the terrible people other districts elect, and we get to sit by and watch the destruction by seditionists we didn't vote for as they work in Congress and state legislatures to bring down our government for their personal gains. It looks like Aaron Burr of duel fame was a lot like that and he was shamed out of government. No such shaming has happened to any of the January 6th insurrectionists. How do we the people push until they are actually indicted? Garland and the DOJ seem to be dragging their feet until their terms are up so January 6th will be forgotten in the insanity of the 2024 elections. They will now be impacted by the North Carolina case Roberts and his MAGAs are pretty sure to agree to, giving state legislatures far more power than any of them deserves. How do we stop that when the gerrymandering already done and approved by guess who, Johnny R. and the SC MAGA crew will permit state legislatures to negate the vote of the people, putting their Republican friends in power, people the American citizens didn't vote for. Yay! Johnny Roberts, forgot your oath huh? Well don't worry, the other 5 on your team have forgotten theirs too.
Ruth, YES! I totally agree with you on this. A decent number of our elected officials in Congress do NOT belong there any longer. Anybody who took an oath in the military to protect our country is duty bound to that oath for LIFE. And those who took it to qualify for public office are bound to that oath at least for the duration of their tenure in public service.
Morality does seem to have taken a beating in today's world, and though I hate to say it, it seems to have been prompted by Christians, especially evangelicals. Now, don't that beat all!
Don't forget Ginny Thomas, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Steve Milller, Trump's family, Michael Flynn and all the revolving members of Trump's cabinet who corruptly made $ and manipulated their positions of trust and power including the lobbyists and billionaires who have sided with the move toward facism and oligarchy. Their is a lot of work to do. The national situation cannot deflect our attention to what is occuring in our states and local areas.
You are so on point, Laurie. This is an extension of Jan 6. They flaunt the law now as they did two years ago. Like the school yard bullies that they are, they are winning. They have stopped American government/ which is their goal. And the Senators who helped them- who denied the election results- continue to serve and be re-elected. This whole mess is so discouraging. We seem to have the mafia in charge of the government. And it’s not just the criminals involved in Jan 6. It’s all of them. Not one of the dimwits
We do have a defense. It’s called the Democratic Party. They need to stop voting for Hakeem Jeffries and work with the more moderate Republicans to pick a Speaker they can live with. They only need a few Republican votes to get to 218. They can stop the Gang of 20 now.
Instead, how about getting just 6 of the moderate Republicans to vote for Hakeem Jeffries?
Or (I’m not sure here of the rules and my math) how about if 12 moderate Republicans just vote “present” -- then i think we only need 212 votes, and Jeffries wins.
Nope, not happening. There are NO REPUBLICANS who are willing to govern. They have proven this over and over again since Barack Obama was elected president. The GOP is full of Our-Way-or-No-Way people, not one of whom is worthy to be a compromise speaker. The GOP has turned away from polices to drive fear, loathing, and anger into their constituents who readily accept the victimhood presented to them. If the Republicans want a compromise candidate for speaker, let six of them vote for Jeffries (which they will never do because they all view Democrats as Spawn of Satan, not colleagues who have a difference of opinion or approach.
Rosie Rees : you do have a point! After all, the 'republican party' as it is, after many good people were pushed out, did win the majority of the Congressional seats. Too bad so many are Seditionists who do not belong in government positions of any kind. Too bad they are not proposing any 'more moderate' Republicans though. Maybe one who upheld the rule of law to certify President Biden's legitimate win. I can't blame Democrats for wanting to get the best Speaker for the job. Maybe they will be inspired to play a little more fairly. Hahaha.
You may be right, but there may also be Republicans - we only need 6 - that become so disgusted with the behavior of their own party that they decide to throw in with the Democrats and elect Jeffries. I think they may have a winning strategy
It's not looking good. If the worst happens and the spineless McCarthy becomes speaker, the next two years will be a challenge not to lose our Democracy. No meaningful legislation will be passed, and the traitors will begin dragging anyone they can to sit before Congress to answer questions about laptops and any other bogus complaints they can come up with. If the Democrats have a plan, they had better enact it now, before it's too late.
Apparently they (the Democratic Legislators in the House of Representatives) can't enact anything. According to the House rules there MUST be a Speaker and only the Speaker can accept proposed legislation, send it to the appropriate Committee, which only the Speaker can form. So folks we are shelling out $29,113.68 per DAY for this s41t show we're watching or reading about. That's more than a lot of our citizens make in a whole year. We've already paid $1,455,684 this week and that's just legislators salaries. It does not include benefits, expenses, office staff, Capitol staff, etc. Just think what your State could do with an extra 1 and half million dollars.
Jaime ; Maybe because of the attack on her 83 year old husband, followed by another threat, possibly to her daughter? Who knows? Pretty scary business. Too much crime. It is ironic that the 'republicans' are running on being tough on crime!
John Thompson : It could work. My impression is that it has not happened yet. I believe that is a plan put forward. So many Republicans who believed in the constitution and the rule of law left the party.. If there are any left, this would be the time for them to come forward. To elect a Republican who is not an insurrectionist, not Mr Jefferies.
The problem is the 218-vote threshold. Who could the Republicans put forward? Who is there that is not so odious to the Democratic side that they could vote for them in good conscience? On their own, the Republicans will never be able to put up anyone that will get unanimous votes from their caucus, and they need every single Republican vote, so if the Dems hold out and continue voting as a body for Jeffries, they could very well end up with the Speakership, and thus, with effective control of the House. It's not a far-fetched idea at all
My biggest fear is that Democrats are so adept at snapping defeat from the jaws of victory. I feel confident that, if they continue to hold out, and don't compromise in any way with the devil, this outcome can actually be achieved, and the GOP will further disintegrate.
Actually, that's a paraphrase of something from the '70s. In the Preface of National Lampoon's "Bored with the Rings," the writer explains that the Lampoon needed money quickly to stay afloat, so the staff holed up in a hotel room for a week with "enough Dr Pepper & potato chips to choke a horse," to write the parody. I must observe intellectual honesty, here! LOL!
I disagree. This is a prison riot, and all prison riots end. There is no need for a counterstrike. Just shut off the water. Each prison gang has taken hostages from the other gangs’ thugs. This is the last of it. Let them burn themselves out, or surrender. There is no way out. It will end.
Steve O'Cally ; These 'Congess members' are not prisoners. The Congress' ability to serve the Common Good and the rule of law, (not to mention the ethics they want to erase), are the hostages.
Oh Laurie, you are so right about the Capitol having been taken over again by insurgents and they are working really hard to force a non-entity Kevin McCarthy to be Speaker and give them the keys to the nation. They deserve nothing but arre trying to take everything.
Ruth ; Horrifying that they will control the purse strings of our country and that they obviously do not support Democracy. What will become of Ukraine, now that illegitimates have this power? What, if anything, could the Commander in Chief do? Is there still time for Jack Smith and the DOJ? It's once again, the Perils of Pauline government! It would be almost funny if it weren't so damned scary and dis-heartening! What next? We need some miracles. The Senate has powers to investigate, too, and Democrats control it. The huge outlay for defense may have been prescient ; Some knew or guessed what was coming.?
Laurie, you are asking the same desperate questions I am asking myself and when I get a chance to comment when writing to my representatives. Right now, I am fortunate to have all Democratic representatives at all levels. This is a new thing in my area but a good thing. Those folks are actually working for us. So, McCarthy is in charge, and guess what, like anyone didn't expect it, the first order of Business for the Repubs is cutting spending for IRS. One can guess which of the members of congress either themselves, their families or their donors have a reason to want the IRS being rendered ineffective. I am guessing most of the Republicans. We'll see by the vote they take. Knowing that the IRS has been underfunded for more than a decade, probably closer to 2, no one should want it to be further crippled since we the people need the funding coming from everyone, even the rich cheats. I say every person who votes to in any way cut funding and support for the IRS has something to hide. Perhaps investigating that could keep someone busy for a while. I am wondering what McCarthy will trade to get the MAGAs to vote for cutting the IRS so he can have a victory. He has already sold his soul and the last bit of respect he might have had, what does he have left?
Members can object to seating of insurrectionists.
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
On January 7, 2021 I favored loss of citizenship and prosecution of those elected officials and US Citizens responsible for insurrection and attacking the US Capitol. Two years later I haven't changed my mind and applaud justice. However, the inability to swiftly identify and prosecute criminal acts is clearly a weakness of the US Judiciary System. Such failure diminishes trust by average citizens who expect consequences. Those (elected officials) who plan to continue to obstruct the process of government without sanction or penalty are encouraged. I despise conspiracy theories but believe that poorly informed people are more prone to whacko ideas when the government does not act with conviction (by convicting, sorry for the pun). In America we are all students in the classroom of democracy that is witnessed daily. I am grateful to live in a society where I am innocent until proven guilty. Once proven guilty I expect punishment. We need some better guidelines about appropriate punishment for repeat, smart-ass offenders in government.
Let’s line the coconspirators up and cap them - time is up. They will continue to tie the Justice department up in knots and process. We know who is involved. They are traitors. Most countries would have gone with summary judgement
Why is the justice department so hesitant to prosecute? Civil rights are observed and due process aside, how much more consideration must a perpetrator be given? The 14th amendment seems pretty clearly written. It is wrong to use "political" reasons to decide whether or not to prosecute. We need a judiciary that understands the importance of punishment against defiling the US Constitution and threatening elected members of government. We are a nation that was founded by revolution and we like to boast about what a great quality of life we enjoy as a result. Our present quality of life is worth protecting. Protest is allowed. Threats by thugs with weapons must not be allowed and loss of citizenship and jail is appropriate punishment. There are many Alex Jones characters remaining in our imperfect society who like to use broad interpretation of free speech to sanction mayhem and murder. Are we strong enough to identify and exterminate them with law enforcement agencies designed for our safety? Trump and his followers are "weasels" who will use any legislative weakness to achieve personal gain. We must recognize this new danger and be intelligent enough to confront and destroy their betrayal of our beautiful system of governing.
The way the law is written seems to indicate that the default position is that they are automatically removed & only a 2/3 vote by Congress can reinstate them. Of course, the trick is getting them to recognize what is obvious to us, that they broke their oath & committed sedition.
Any law is weak if it cannot be enforced. Should the FBI physically remove offenders from office by force? ATF, US military, Capitol Police are all arms of enforcement. Subpoena once meant mandatory testimony. Recently republicans have decided to ignore subpoenas with no consequence. Any penalty for that? Every criminal is protected by civil rights and due process. It is a corruption of our judiciary enforcement to extend endless pardons and inaction when penalties are needed as a matter of logic to define what is just. The burden of convincing offenders of the US Constitution that they have committed illegal and seditious acts is NOT the responsibility of THE PEOPLE. Action to enforce political chicanery needs to be immediate to be effective. Where should THE PEOPLE look for law enforcement? What is the function of the Attorney General? Do we need another revolution to awaken the judicial and law enforcement community that there is a crisis caused by irresponsible behavior? Do judges bear responsibility when we are uncomfortable with penalties that seem too light? When a candidate is elected to serve in public office there are expectations of honesty and appropriate personal conduct that must be met. It is not the voters responsibility to remove insurrectionists. From the Supreme Court to Congress our judicial system has been so politicized THE PEOPLE do not feel represented
Thank you for pointing out clearly in plain language the cancer at the heart of our republic. Our country was riven in the middle of the 19th century by the power held by pro-slavery Americans over pro-unionists who appeased them. Until they got ambushed at Fort Sumter. That’s exactly what January 6th was, after an earlier skirmish at the Michigan Statehouse. Do you hear me, Merrick Garland? Stop the steal - the steal of our democracy.
January 6 is another day in US history that will be remembered as a day of infamy. Let the DoJ investigation run its course. Fir the sake of democracy everywhere I hope those mentioned in the article are properly held to account!
I agree that hope is not a plan. The founders assumed that those in all three branches of government would be men of good character. You know what happens when one assumes? If laws are not enforced, they mean nothing. The Republicans refused to provide oversight the way the Constitution intended. The radical right wing justices are throwing out precedents, as quickly as they can, in service to their religious beliefs and to benefit wealthy right wing donors. To throw the book at the January 6 foot soldiers and not at the instigators like tRump, et. al. is like charging a rock for breaking a window. Now look where we are. The vandals are running wild in the building!
Hear Hear!! Great metphor!! We need to stop talking talk and start Walking the walk.... Mabey stomping the stomp to save our country from becoming the next NAZI regime. We are the people!! I apologise to anyone offended by my rant, please DO something.
Indeed - but, in order to ensure "those mentioned in the article are properly held to account" (as Ken says), there has to be some plan - and whatever has unfolded over the last two years doesn't seem to involve anything other than ignoring the folks who have flaunted the rules & norms (imagine - ignoring a Congressional subpoena!)...
Well, to add a bit of cheer, American democracy didn't almost die on Jan 6.
What would have happened if the insurrection had been successful and Trump stayed in office?
1) Either some combination of the security forces would have forcibly removed Trump from the White House, or....
2) You and me would have done that. If thousands of Americans can storm the Capitol, thousands of Americans can storm the White House.
C'mon guys, let's ease up on all the chronic hand wringing and defeatism, that's a loser's game. Are MAGA people a problem? Yes. Is Trump a problem? Yes. Are we going to lose our democracy? No.
What we're losing is our historical perspective.
A century ago there were many thousands of KKK morons in full costume marching down the streets of Washington. And the civil rights movement still happened, and racial justice has made great strides forward since that time.
In the sixties it seemed like the entire society on every front was spinning wildly out of control, and major political leaders were being gun downed, the cities were burning, riots on campus etc. We got through it. Things got better.
Let us not feed the beast of divisive hysteria. Decide what specific action you're willing to take, and take it. Do your best. And forget the rest.
Trump and his insurrectionists coven must be charged. Then convicted of their crimes . Only those steps can end their political careers. And put them in jail. For the maximum set out under the law. Their supporters will yelp iit’s the Deep State exacting revenge. But no, it is our State following the rule of law which governs our process that all citizens should uphold.
So many crimes against and insults to America by trump and his cohorts. How did Pelosi not push the disqualification issue against trump and the GOP conspirators when she was Speaker? What is taking AG Garland so long? We'll have another coup before he and Smith gets done investigating, etc. Crime isn't supposed to pay! Correct? In our system, criminals can just delay and evade and run out the clock. Very, very wrong and sad, imo.
Again: Members can object to seating of insurrectionists.
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Daniel Solomon ; No disrespect intended, but pigs have a bigger chance to fly than getting a two thirds majority in this Congress to remove such disability. At least it seems that way. What a great thing it would be to have happen!
What members should do is make a record under penalty of perjury. They could have done this by resolution in the last Congress but Democratic leaders are too deferential.
There were numerous opportunities to voir dire members and get the colloquy into the Federal Register over the past two years. The chair of every committee could have done it at every committee meeting.
The House Ethics Committee is a sham. I think that people like Pelosi were afraid of retribution if they went after their colleagues.
Daniel Solomon ; Any fear of retribution was most likely justified! There were and still are criminals involved! Isn't Sedition a crime? Also don't forget the death threats to any one, even in the 'republican ' party : Who would dare to step out of line! Witness Liz Cheney and Adam Kinsinger.
Jaime Ramirez ; How anyone could work in a place where their colleagues attacked them and threatened to murder some, and not want to move to unseat them is telling. They are under threat.
Yes, you bring up a great point. I just don't understand. It's very human to want justice against those who endangered your life, and it's in the Constitution. Only AOC seems to be acting reasonably & calling for expulsion of the seditionists. Over & over Democrats lack spine & imagination & let opportunities to push back on Republican treachery pass them by.
Daniel Solomon says that "Members can object to seating of insurrectionists." - but (per the thread of conversation) there continues to be the question of why it hasn't been done yet; one is left with little more than such questions, it seems...
Rishi Chopra ; It is frustrating to see little in the way of justice towards the actual instigator. Two years and now tfg's minions are in the Capitol, working against the Common Good again, from within! Why are these insurrectionists still holding seats in government! Where is the DOJ? We are told that Jack Smith, the prosecutor, is still due to arrive from England ; the latest is that he is recovering from a bicycle accident. Will justice ever be served?? Or is the entire lot bought up or just scared? ( I hope he is ok. My husband is an avid bicyclist and I am often concerned about his safety out on the roads.).
Both congress and DOJ wait and drag their heels to see which way the wind blows. No one wants to go too far from their personal pack (PAC) for fear that they will go on record for something that will cut off their funding.
Democracy (limited as it is in the US) has not served the American masses well. Too much attention to big business and to middle class social issues, not enough attention to lower class economic needs. So the masses have taken the MAGA option.
Also reflects the difficulty we all have with people who overstep their authority. Often that kind of behaviour is tolerated too long, allowing the powerful to cement their position and become too powerfull to challenge. Seems that the US establishment is frightened now of taking on the republican far right.
We will see what happens with the vote on the Speaker of the House., that is clearly a power move on the part of the extreme right. A competent majority should be able to brush them aside.
It is more important to prosecute the 9 congresspeople mentioned, as well as state officials down the line, than to prosecute Trump. He could not have done what he did, without help. Anyone can replace him, and try again, with the structure he left in place.
In our hearts, we want Trump to pay. But to protect our democracy, it seems more important to focus on everyone else.
His reign is self-limited—by his age, and his increasingly visible mental illness. The cost of incarcerating him would be astronomical. He lost in 2020, and surely he has not gained more support since then.
It seems prudent at this point to focus on the vast support system below him that would still allow someone else to repeat his plan.
I absolutely disagree. It is vitally imperative that Trump be indicted and prosecuted. To not do so invites more of the same, perhaps even worse. And by worse I mean succeeding.
Why the DOJ is tip-toeing around upsetting extremists both in and out of government is perplexing and frustrating. Indict all of them including these Freedom Caucus knuckleheads. Let them prove they didn’t foment an insurrection in court. The DOJ by now should be able to prove they did. Anyone with a hint of critical thinking skills and good hearing knows they’re all traitors.
It is heartening to see Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell and others doing a bipartisan bridge building photo op. The whole idea of good government of, by and for the people is to take care of the infrastructure and health of each other and support our country. If those who have drunk the kool aid can get the idea of how it is supposed to work, maybe we can see some change in the right direction.
Good assessment of the frustration with the DOJ. I think Joe and the machinery of Washington are moving slowly as a caution not to stir up the groups in this country who are watching for reasons to move forward with armed insurrection. Jail time and court dates have become so common in America there are not many citizens not looking over their shoulders. Rash Federal , inappropriate moves might trigger some red states to secede. That would be the trigger for our hot-button competition (Korea, Russia, China) to up their aggressive posturing. If the red states can be aligned by Washington's friendly moves (think El Paso) and eventual demonstration to Republicans (and undecided) ,the de-escalation of tensions would be another win for Joe. The goal is to make it to 2024 elections.
I suppose it serves a purpose to once again run through the litany of all the politicians who are thumbing their noses at the two tier judicial system where the powerful and the rich have nothing to worry about. However, your note would be a lot more useful if you were to draw conclusions and indict the candy ass prosecutors, lawyers, judges and assorted assistants who are eagerly giving the worst miscreants a free pass and expose the system that calls for that. We don't need simply endless descriptions. That is what the corporate law breakers do. When asked about their roles or responsibilities they fall back on endless descriptions.
Here in Arizona call that taking the bull by the horns!! We have been buried in that animals leavings for far too long. Time to pull up the big girl panties and get active, Ladies and gentlemen.
In 1945, it took the Allied Forces only 197 (!) days - counted from the day of the total surrender by the Germans on May 8 - to get their act together and prosecute the senior culprits, like Hermann Goering, starting in November in Nuremberg. Given the state of Europe after WWII, they nonetheless had all the evidence needed, witnesses lined up and had issued the indictments already in August. For January 6, it's been 730 days now! A miserable failure of the DOJ trapped in their analysis paralysis.
Hate to point this out, but the U.S. Capitol has been taken again, and we seem to have no defense at all : Once again.
I agree. The attack on the Capitol wasn’t just the riotous mob. It included attempts to validate false electors and to pressure the VP to obstruct proceedings. Only when those failed was their violence. This is not about selecting a leader but about the leader, whoever it may be, being forced to continue obstruction and destruction through the instrument of the House. As Perry (one of the anti-McCarthy voters and o e who was very active on 1/6) tweeted about what’s happening now:
(The anti-McCarthy Republicans) want to change things fundamentally here so this place works for the American people. And we’re not going to stop going until we get that one way or the other. Either we have the tools to do it, or we have the personnel to do it. It’s going to be one, or the other.
“the American people” is dog whistle for white Christians and others who receive their approval, not the general voting populace. It’s interesting to speculate about what Perry, a longtime military veteran, believes the “tools” and “personnel” are, especially when thinking in terms of an ongoing insurrection against Democracy..
Edited one word above. Autocorrect changed “destruction” to “distraction”. I meant literal destruction. One of the demands of the rebelling GOP representatives is that they want to force the government to default on its debt. Maybe they just want to hold the country hostage to get even more concessions than they’ve already been promised but their stated goal is to destroy this government. We should take that seriously. They are actively performing insurrection. Now.
Kathy, I do believe you are correct that this insanity going on in the House this week is a kind of insurrection. A non-entity who has nothing to offer anyone is trying to get elected Speaker, now on the 15th vote. Everyone in the House knows that Kevin McCarthy has no leadership ability, just a desperate need to be recognized but he is a fool and is trying to get the insurgents to be bribed to vote for him at the possible sacrifice of our nation. That is just nuts, but the insurgents don't seem to be able to be stopped. Yo Garland, get things moving so the American people will actually know that the insurrectionists at the heart of this move toward fascism is being stopped. It's time!
It's way past time. Those insurrectionists should already be long gone. Then we wouldn't have had to go through this ordeal. Jeffries would be the new Speaker.
Ruth,
Yesterday my husband and I took metro into DC to the “ Our Freedom, Our Vote” rally out by the reflection pool in front of the Capitol. Excellent speakers ( Martin Luther King III, his wife , powerful speaker, young leaders, veterans , Common Cause, Rep. Sarbanes between votes, Sierra Clubs’ leader and how many citizens? About 40 ( maybe) . We were energized and disappointed. Was it cold? Yes.
Every little bit helps but as the retired Veteran of several wars said” we wouldn’t have to put up with this “_ _ it” if our Law makers were doing their job. The American people will only have so much attention span for really important issues if something BIG doesn’t interfere with their need to be entertained and not detained!
The whole world is waiting and watching .... are we a country of Laws? Or are we
Just full of bull__ __ __ __?
Jean, I actually think we are full of bull because we have the "lofty" language, but have little to no will to back it up. I am so pleased you got to the gathering yesterday. That is one thing I miss so much by not living in the DC area anymore and not having close friends or relatives there anymore either. I found participating in marches and protests really important in my life. We do have some events in my current location, but though I had poor vision when I lived near DC, my vision is now gone and hanging in crowds alone doesn't work for me anymore. I do try to cheer on the people who do attend and I try to keep up with writing my representatives at all levels and have a blog, but I suspect none of my comments or contributions get through to anyone. After watching the nonsense this week in the House, I am beginning to lose faith that we can fix this any time soon. The Republican insurgents care about themselves only and what kinds of power they can get to do their best to wreck our democracy. They don't even hide it. The media acts like this is some kind of norm when it is a norm of the right-wing folks who did their best to plan and carry out a coup on behalf of an appalling human being who cares about this nation even less than the, the MAGAs do. Now we've got the non-entity Kevin McCarthy as Speaker. This was his life-s goal. He doesn't care that he was rejected 14 times and had to sell his soul to get the final vote and that he has no respect among the members just as he has no respect for them. The guys who took the floor to nominate him had a really hard time coming up with sufficient lies about his qualities (They sure did lie with enthusiasm, though). He has no ability or talent for the job yet they all claimed he did, with no evidence whatsoever because McCarthy had done nothing for anyone except as he claims, get many of the new representatives elected, and that claim is right now, without evidence, of course. The MAGA crowd is salivating over getting committee assignments they do not deserve and being able to shut down the government in September unless they get cuts to all the programs that actually help Americans. I would love to be pleasantly surprised that McCarthy could lead the House to passing a strong voting rights bill, a child tax credit, continued help for Ukraine, work to end global warming, and a few other things, but none of that will happen. Yo Hunter Biden, you are now going to be the only thing the House Republicans care about and, frankly, you are not worth the trouble, nothing personal or mean, just the truth, but McCarthy et al will be investigating every aspect of your difficult life as if you have done things worse than they have done. You never tried to attack our government or plan and carry out a coup as many of them have. Keep the faith and just keep reminding yourself that these folks are bigger criminals than you are if indeed you are a criminal which I doubt.
Jean, I’m really glad you got out to the rally in Washington. I would love to have gone! Don’t be too disappointed. Marches and rallies are only the tip of the iceberg, they are most often used to energize and educate, they’re not expected to directly cause change. I work for a grassroots good government group in my state which, along with Common Cause and other groups, held a rally on 1/3 in our state capital. The turnout wasn’t gigantic and it wasn’t expected to be. But those who were there also went to legislators’ offices with literature. And the media covered the event. And there are recordings to share with legislators and the public. Our group has thousands of members in every county of the state. They participate in whatever ways they can, some small, some bigger and a few are heroes, working every day. The point I’m making is that a lot of real work goes on behind the scenes every day and each of us can join in when we have time. A rally can be an invitation to new members to join the network.
I mean, yes, lots and lots of people are just watching and waiting to see what happens. I put some responsibility for this on our for-profit media. There is a conflict of interest when you depend on sensationalism and an attitude of grabbing the popcorn bag (references literally inside the House this week) for your paycheck but you are supposed to be helping to create an informed, engaged and educated public. What happened this week was a clear sign of an active insurrection. It’s being portrayed as a clown show, and now that the speaker is defined, everyone is running off to look for the next clown car coming down the road. Those of us who have time to volunteer need to patiently keep trying to win over as many people as we can. It’s also helpful to learn as much as we can about nonviolent organizing. Many good places have online resources and trainings and they network with each other.
Initiate the 14th Amendment nationwide. Throw the Bums out!
Who has the power to do it? We know the 14th Amendment says oathbreakers must be expelled, but I don't recall a mechanism for doing that.
Yes, throw the bums out!!
Yes Please and Thank you!
Somebody answer this question,don't they have to be charged w/ sedition or actually convicted?
No, as New Mexico just used it to throw out an admitted insurrectionist. Their actions, and conspiracies and what come out of their mouths, qualifies them for expulsion. Read the New Mexico docs on the case. Just google
Perry is definitely not one of the 'good guys'
Kathy, Perry should not even be in Congress after his participation 2 years ago, but somehow we can't get Congress or state governments to declare anyone involved with the insurrection ineligible to run for any federal or state office. It is in our Constitution, but alas, swearing an oath to protect and defend our Constitution does not mean that the oath-taker has to do it. Republicans have proven that pretty regularly for the past 8 years and more.
Ruth Sheets ; It blows my mind that there seems to be no answer to the crime spree assault on Washington. Oaths of office are a mere mockery, it looks like: almost a guarantee of bad behavior from the Congress to the 'Supreme Court'!
Laurie, don't you just love it? Republicans raise their right hand, supposedly indicating a solemnity about the words to be spoken, if they are spoken. Since it is done as a group, Repubs can tell themselves that they really didn't say anything at the swearing in. It doesn't matter anyway because as you say, the oaths the MAGAs take mean nothing to them or mean something quite warped and twisted out of shape. These folks almost to a person claim to be good little Christians while lying through their teeth. I guess they think lying and cheating are OK with god because it's "for a greater good," themselves and god should understand that, right! I do wish the founders had cared more about the American people, not just the rich white slave owners when putting our document together. There is nothing we the people can do directly about the terrible people other districts elect, and we get to sit by and watch the destruction by seditionists we didn't vote for as they work in Congress and state legislatures to bring down our government for their personal gains. It looks like Aaron Burr of duel fame was a lot like that and he was shamed out of government. No such shaming has happened to any of the January 6th insurrectionists. How do we the people push until they are actually indicted? Garland and the DOJ seem to be dragging their feet until their terms are up so January 6th will be forgotten in the insanity of the 2024 elections. They will now be impacted by the North Carolina case Roberts and his MAGAs are pretty sure to agree to, giving state legislatures far more power than any of them deserves. How do we stop that when the gerrymandering already done and approved by guess who, Johnny R. and the SC MAGA crew will permit state legislatures to negate the vote of the people, putting their Republican friends in power, people the American citizens didn't vote for. Yay! Johnny Roberts, forgot your oath huh? Well don't worry, the other 5 on your team have forgotten theirs too.
Ruth, YES! I totally agree with you on this. A decent number of our elected officials in Congress do NOT belong there any longer. Anybody who took an oath in the military to protect our country is duty bound to that oath for LIFE. And those who took it to qualify for public office are bound to that oath at least for the duration of their tenure in public service.
Morality does seem to have taken a beating in today's world, and though I hate to say it, it seems to have been prompted by Christians, especially evangelicals. Now, don't that beat all!
Don't forget Ginny Thomas, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Steve Milller, Trump's family, Michael Flynn and all the revolving members of Trump's cabinet who corruptly made $ and manipulated their positions of trust and power including the lobbyists and billionaires who have sided with the move toward facism and oligarchy. Their is a lot of work to do. The national situation cannot deflect our attention to what is occuring in our states and local areas.
You are so on point, Laurie. This is an extension of Jan 6. They flaunt the law now as they did two years ago. Like the school yard bullies that they are, they are winning. They have stopped American government/ which is their goal. And the Senators who helped them- who denied the election results- continue to serve and be re-elected. This whole mess is so discouraging. We seem to have the mafia in charge of the government. And it’s not just the criminals involved in Jan 6. It’s all of them. Not one of the dimwits
We do have a defense. It’s called the Democratic Party. They need to stop voting for Hakeem Jeffries and work with the more moderate Republicans to pick a Speaker they can live with. They only need a few Republican votes to get to 218. They can stop the Gang of 20 now.
Instead, how about getting just 6 of the moderate Republicans to vote for Hakeem Jeffries?
Or (I’m not sure here of the rules and my math) how about if 12 moderate Republicans just vote “present” -- then i think we only need 212 votes, and Jeffries wins.
not a bad idea
Nope, not happening. There are NO REPUBLICANS who are willing to govern. They have proven this over and over again since Barack Obama was elected president. The GOP is full of Our-Way-or-No-Way people, not one of whom is worthy to be a compromise speaker. The GOP has turned away from polices to drive fear, loathing, and anger into their constituents who readily accept the victimhood presented to them. If the Republicans want a compromise candidate for speaker, let six of them vote for Jeffries (which they will never do because they all view Democrats as Spawn of Satan, not colleagues who have a difference of opinion or approach.
Rosie Rees : you do have a point! After all, the 'republican party' as it is, after many good people were pushed out, did win the majority of the Congressional seats. Too bad so many are Seditionists who do not belong in government positions of any kind. Too bad they are not proposing any 'more moderate' Republicans though. Maybe one who upheld the rule of law to certify President Biden's legitimate win. I can't blame Democrats for wanting to get the best Speaker for the job. Maybe they will be inspired to play a little more fairly. Hahaha.
You may be right, but there may also be Republicans - we only need 6 - that become so disgusted with the behavior of their own party that they decide to throw in with the Democrats and elect Jeffries. I think they may have a winning strategy
It's not looking good. If the worst happens and the spineless McCarthy becomes speaker, the next two years will be a challenge not to lose our Democracy. No meaningful legislation will be passed, and the traitors will begin dragging anyone they can to sit before Congress to answer questions about laptops and any other bogus complaints they can come up with. If the Democrats have a plan, they had better enact it now, before it's too late.
Apparently they (the Democratic Legislators in the House of Representatives) can't enact anything. According to the House rules there MUST be a Speaker and only the Speaker can accept proposed legislation, send it to the appropriate Committee, which only the Speaker can form. So folks we are shelling out $29,113.68 per DAY for this s41t show we're watching or reading about. That's more than a lot of our citizens make in a whole year. We've already paid $1,455,684 this week and that's just legislators salaries. It does not include benefits, expenses, office staff, Capitol staff, etc. Just think what your State could do with an extra 1 and half million dollars.
So why didn't Pelosi keep her position until a new speaker was chosen? In virtually every other institution that's the way it's done.
Jaime ; Maybe because of the attack on her 83 year old husband, followed by another threat, possibly to her daughter? Who knows? Pretty scary business. Too much crime. It is ironic that the 'republicans' are running on being tough on crime!
John Thompson : It could work. My impression is that it has not happened yet. I believe that is a plan put forward. So many Republicans who believed in the constitution and the rule of law left the party.. If there are any left, this would be the time for them to come forward. To elect a Republican who is not an insurrectionist, not Mr Jefferies.
The problem is the 218-vote threshold. Who could the Republicans put forward? Who is there that is not so odious to the Democratic side that they could vote for them in good conscience? On their own, the Republicans will never be able to put up anyone that will get unanimous votes from their caucus, and they need every single Republican vote, so if the Dems hold out and continue voting as a body for Jeffries, they could very well end up with the Speakership, and thus, with effective control of the House. It's not a far-fetched idea at all
My biggest fear is that Democrats are so adept at snapping defeat from the jaws of victory. I feel confident that, if they continue to hold out, and don't compromise in any way with the devil, this outcome can actually be achieved, and the GOP will further disintegrate.
exactly my point.
If that actually does happen, then there may be a path to holding the traitors accountable.
The Quisling Front - they call themselves the "Freedom Caucus."
DZK ' 'The Quisling Front' ; A much more accurate term to describe the MAGATS.
>They< put the "Q" in Quisling!
"URP!"
It took me 2, party-sized bags of chips and a 6 pack of Dr Pepper to come up with it! LOL!
DZK ; I hope you did not experience a 'quisling' stomach!
To cure a quisling stomach, one must drink quite a lot of quinine.
Actually, that's a paraphrase of something from the '70s. In the Preface of National Lampoon's "Bored with the Rings," the writer explains that the Lampoon needed money quickly to stay afloat, so the staff holed up in a hotel room for a week with "enough Dr Pepper & potato chips to choke a horse," to write the parody. I must observe intellectual honesty, here! LOL!
Naw! That was just the reflux it produced! LOL!
Dr. Pepper is strong stuff.
FYI: https://youtu.be/iExos0WC99k
As usual, they call themselves exactly the opposite of what they really are.
The No more blank check Savvy genius appeasers . ..
Push nationwide to enact the 14th amendment. New Mexico just threw out a bum insurrectionist. All states need to do the same. End the clown Party!
I disagree. This is a prison riot, and all prison riots end. There is no need for a counterstrike. Just shut off the water. Each prison gang has taken hostages from the other gangs’ thugs. This is the last of it. Let them burn themselves out, or surrender. There is no way out. It will end.
Steve O'Cally ; These 'Congess members' are not prisoners. The Congress' ability to serve the Common Good and the rule of law, (not to mention the ethics they want to erase), are the hostages.
Oh Laurie, you are so right about the Capitol having been taken over again by insurgents and they are working really hard to force a non-entity Kevin McCarthy to be Speaker and give them the keys to the nation. They deserve nothing but arre trying to take everything.
Ruth ; Horrifying that they will control the purse strings of our country and that they obviously do not support Democracy. What will become of Ukraine, now that illegitimates have this power? What, if anything, could the Commander in Chief do? Is there still time for Jack Smith and the DOJ? It's once again, the Perils of Pauline government! It would be almost funny if it weren't so damned scary and dis-heartening! What next? We need some miracles. The Senate has powers to investigate, too, and Democrats control it. The huge outlay for defense may have been prescient ; Some knew or guessed what was coming.?
Laurie, you are asking the same desperate questions I am asking myself and when I get a chance to comment when writing to my representatives. Right now, I am fortunate to have all Democratic representatives at all levels. This is a new thing in my area but a good thing. Those folks are actually working for us. So, McCarthy is in charge, and guess what, like anyone didn't expect it, the first order of Business for the Repubs is cutting spending for IRS. One can guess which of the members of congress either themselves, their families or their donors have a reason to want the IRS being rendered ineffective. I am guessing most of the Republicans. We'll see by the vote they take. Knowing that the IRS has been underfunded for more than a decade, probably closer to 2, no one should want it to be further crippled since we the people need the funding coming from everyone, even the rich cheats. I say every person who votes to in any way cut funding and support for the IRS has something to hide. Perhaps investigating that could keep someone busy for a while. I am wondering what McCarthy will trade to get the MAGAs to vote for cutting the IRS so he can have a victory. He has already sold his soul and the last bit of respect he might have had, what does he have left?
Government of, for and by the MAGAts
The Maga No Speaker Insurrection . . .I nominate fratbrat Matt for Horned Shaman
Just Use Ur . .
Ok, so it's down to Six . .that's enuff for some Cute Maga Tricks . .
No mere coincidence . .more like Divine Insistence . .
The last digit in Seventeen Seventy Sicks . . .# Common Q Sense
Unless the DOJ decides to do something - like bringing charges against those you named - nothing changes except the pace of democracy’s demise.
Members can object to seating of insurrectionists.
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/disqualifying-insurrectionists-and-rebels-how-guide
That should have been one of the January 6 committee recommendations.
On January 7, 2021 I favored loss of citizenship and prosecution of those elected officials and US Citizens responsible for insurrection and attacking the US Capitol. Two years later I haven't changed my mind and applaud justice. However, the inability to swiftly identify and prosecute criminal acts is clearly a weakness of the US Judiciary System. Such failure diminishes trust by average citizens who expect consequences. Those (elected officials) who plan to continue to obstruct the process of government without sanction or penalty are encouraged. I despise conspiracy theories but believe that poorly informed people are more prone to whacko ideas when the government does not act with conviction (by convicting, sorry for the pun). In America we are all students in the classroom of democracy that is witnessed daily. I am grateful to live in a society where I am innocent until proven guilty. Once proven guilty I expect punishment. We need some better guidelines about appropriate punishment for repeat, smart-ass offenders in government.
Let’s line the coconspirators up and cap them - time is up. They will continue to tie the Justice department up in knots and process. We know who is involved. They are traitors. Most countries would have gone with summary judgement
Why is the justice department so hesitant to prosecute? Civil rights are observed and due process aside, how much more consideration must a perpetrator be given? The 14th amendment seems pretty clearly written. It is wrong to use "political" reasons to decide whether or not to prosecute. We need a judiciary that understands the importance of punishment against defiling the US Constitution and threatening elected members of government. We are a nation that was founded by revolution and we like to boast about what a great quality of life we enjoy as a result. Our present quality of life is worth protecting. Protest is allowed. Threats by thugs with weapons must not be allowed and loss of citizenship and jail is appropriate punishment. There are many Alex Jones characters remaining in our imperfect society who like to use broad interpretation of free speech to sanction mayhem and murder. Are we strong enough to identify and exterminate them with law enforcement agencies designed for our safety? Trump and his followers are "weasels" who will use any legislative weakness to achieve personal gain. We must recognize this new danger and be intelligent enough to confront and destroy their betrayal of our beautiful system of governing.
Or stupid ass ones.
The way the law is written seems to indicate that the default position is that they are automatically removed & only a 2/3 vote by Congress can reinstate them. Of course, the trick is getting them to recognize what is obvious to us, that they broke their oath & committed sedition.
Any law is weak if it cannot be enforced. Should the FBI physically remove offenders from office by force? ATF, US military, Capitol Police are all arms of enforcement. Subpoena once meant mandatory testimony. Recently republicans have decided to ignore subpoenas with no consequence. Any penalty for that? Every criminal is protected by civil rights and due process. It is a corruption of our judiciary enforcement to extend endless pardons and inaction when penalties are needed as a matter of logic to define what is just. The burden of convincing offenders of the US Constitution that they have committed illegal and seditious acts is NOT the responsibility of THE PEOPLE. Action to enforce political chicanery needs to be immediate to be effective. Where should THE PEOPLE look for law enforcement? What is the function of the Attorney General? Do we need another revolution to awaken the judicial and law enforcement community that there is a crisis caused by irresponsible behavior? Do judges bear responsibility when we are uncomfortable with penalties that seem too light? When a candidate is elected to serve in public office there are expectations of honesty and appropriate personal conduct that must be met. It is not the voters responsibility to remove insurrectionists. From the Supreme Court to Congress our judicial system has been so politicized THE PEOPLE do not feel represented
Excellent post! You express so well the concerns I have & the gulf between what justice should be & what we actually get.
How do we get 2/3 of this CRAZY HOUSE?
It's 2/3 of both chambers of Congress to reinstate them. That means only 1/3 needs to vote against reinstatement & they're gone.
Time to take the RICO statute for a workout 🏋️♀️
I hate to state the obvious but this country is in deep trouble!
And now the MAGA TRASH GQP wants to launch an investigation into the FBI. The time has come to cut the crap and indict these criminals
Yes, why is it taking so long to indict these clowns!
Thank you for pointing out clearly in plain language the cancer at the heart of our republic. Our country was riven in the middle of the 19th century by the power held by pro-slavery Americans over pro-unionists who appeased them. Until they got ambushed at Fort Sumter. That’s exactly what January 6th was, after an earlier skirmish at the Michigan Statehouse. Do you hear me, Merrick Garland? Stop the steal - the steal of our democracy.
January 6 is another day in US history that will be remembered as a day of infamy. Let the DoJ investigation run its course. Fir the sake of democracy everywhere I hope those mentioned in the article are properly held to account!
Everyone needs hope - but hope is not a plan!
I agree that hope is not a plan. The founders assumed that those in all three branches of government would be men of good character. You know what happens when one assumes? If laws are not enforced, they mean nothing. The Republicans refused to provide oversight the way the Constitution intended. The radical right wing justices are throwing out precedents, as quickly as they can, in service to their religious beliefs and to benefit wealthy right wing donors. To throw the book at the January 6 foot soldiers and not at the instigators like tRump, et. al. is like charging a rock for breaking a window. Now look where we are. The vandals are running wild in the building!
Hear Hear!! Great metphor!! We need to stop talking talk and start Walking the walk.... Mabey stomping the stomp to save our country from becoming the next NAZI regime. We are the people!! I apologise to anyone offended by my rant, please DO something.
No need to apologize,we're all RANTING!!!
And want to re write laws and rules to suit their insatiable power cravings.
Great line! How can we get these seditionist out of the house? They don’t care about our petitions. 
Here’s my two sense-- Dems and middle Gopers make a pact of civility and freeze out the 20. In the meantime, those of the 20 who participated
In the insurrection are banned from office. They shouldn’t be there now.
Those 20 are little different from the rest of those MAGAts. A plague on both groups.
How about those in the 200 who participated in the insurrection? There are plenty of them in that group, too.
Hope is an action.
Indeed - but, in order to ensure "those mentioned in the article are properly held to account" (as Ken says), there has to be some plan - and whatever has unfolded over the last two years doesn't seem to involve anything other than ignoring the folks who have flaunted the rules & norms (imagine - ignoring a Congressional subpoena!)...
Someone needs to kick butt, and we outnumber (and outvote), them.
Well, to add a bit of cheer, American democracy didn't almost die on Jan 6.
What would have happened if the insurrection had been successful and Trump stayed in office?
1) Either some combination of the security forces would have forcibly removed Trump from the White House, or....
2) You and me would have done that. If thousands of Americans can storm the Capitol, thousands of Americans can storm the White House.
C'mon guys, let's ease up on all the chronic hand wringing and defeatism, that's a loser's game. Are MAGA people a problem? Yes. Is Trump a problem? Yes. Are we going to lose our democracy? No.
What we're losing is our historical perspective.
A century ago there were many thousands of KKK morons in full costume marching down the streets of Washington. And the civil rights movement still happened, and racial justice has made great strides forward since that time.
In the sixties it seemed like the entire society on every front was spinning wildly out of control, and major political leaders were being gun downed, the cities were burning, riots on campus etc. We got through it. Things got better.
Let us not feed the beast of divisive hysteria. Decide what specific action you're willing to take, and take it. Do your best. And forget the rest.
Yes, we will get through it, but not with simplistic bully tactics.
One man's divisive hysteria is another person's running the numbers.
Seriously folks, something funny happened to the way to the forum. Make that AT the forum.
Be grateful because ALL involved are MAGAts. Dark humor? Godot never comes!
Turn that frown upside down, so that those endorphins do their job. Tickle them crazy!
GOOD MORNING Daniel!!! Thanks for the light hearted Injection to our community RANT!!!
I would like to stop paying taxes till the seditionists are prosecuted
Trump and his insurrectionists coven must be charged. Then convicted of their crimes . Only those steps can end their political careers. And put them in jail. For the maximum set out under the law. Their supporters will yelp iit’s the Deep State exacting revenge. But no, it is our State following the rule of law which governs our process that all citizens should uphold.
robert w. fisher ; Yes, It is way overdue! Look at the way Germany put down it's own attempted coup! They wasted no time at all!
So many crimes against and insults to America by trump and his cohorts. How did Pelosi not push the disqualification issue against trump and the GOP conspirators when she was Speaker? What is taking AG Garland so long? We'll have another coup before he and Smith gets done investigating, etc. Crime isn't supposed to pay! Correct? In our system, criminals can just delay and evade and run out the clock. Very, very wrong and sad, imo.
Justice delayed is justice denied.
"All five ignored the subpoenas. To date, none have been held legally accountable for doing so."
Is there some practical limitation which precludes accountability? What can the public do about it...?
Again: Members can object to seating of insurrectionists.
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/disqualifying-insurrectionists-and-rebels-how-guide
Daniel Solomon ; No disrespect intended, but pigs have a bigger chance to fly than getting a two thirds majority in this Congress to remove such disability. At least it seems that way. What a great thing it would be to have happen!
Actually burden of proof is on insurrectionists.
What members should do is make a record under penalty of perjury. They could have done this by resolution in the last Congress but Democratic leaders are too deferential.
Daniel Solomon ; did you mean deferential? If so, to whom?
To fellow members.
There were numerous opportunities to voir dire members and get the colloquy into the Federal Register over the past two years. The chair of every committee could have done it at every committee meeting.
The House Ethics Committee is a sham. I think that people like Pelosi were afraid of retribution if they went after their colleagues.
Clearly no one is afraid of violating the spirit of any rules regarding insider trading (Congresspeople beat the market last year - go figure!)...
Daniel : Indeed! Look what happened to her husband! This is the mob!
Daniel Solomon ; Any fear of retribution was most likely justified! There were and still are criminals involved! Isn't Sedition a crime? Also don't forget the death threats to any one, even in the 'republican ' party : Who would dare to step out of line! Witness Liz Cheney and Adam Kinsinger.
Common misreading of the law. The “disability” that requires 2/3 to remove is to restore the disqualified person to office, NOT to remove him.
Stan could you elaborate some on this subject? I would like to get a deeper understanding of this important issue.
2/3 is the proportion of members required to reinstate or keep oathbreakers in office. Only 1/3 is needed to expel them
Jaime thanks for this clarification. That being said shouldn't we get this effort moving ASAP ????
I replied to your question but when I hit send it vanished. Can you see it? I can’t
Yes, representatives can, but none of them seem to be doing so. Maybe we should pick one and make them do it ? 
Jane ; Maybe we can let them know this is an option. ?
AOC knows it & has been calling for the expulsion of the seditionists but the rest of the House seems to be ignoring her.
Jaime Ramirez ; How anyone could work in a place where their colleagues attacked them and threatened to murder some, and not want to move to unseat them is telling. They are under threat.
Yes, you bring up a great point. I just don't understand. It's very human to want justice against those who endangered your life, and it's in the Constitution. Only AOC seems to be acting reasonably & calling for expulsion of the seditionists. Over & over Democrats lack spine & imagination & let opportunities to push back on Republican treachery pass them by.
Rishi Chopra ; Good question!
Daniel Solomon says that "Members can object to seating of insurrectionists." - but (per the thread of conversation) there continues to be the question of why it hasn't been done yet; one is left with little more than such questions, it seems...
= /
Rishi Chopra ; It is frustrating to see little in the way of justice towards the actual instigator. Two years and now tfg's minions are in the Capitol, working against the Common Good again, from within! Why are these insurrectionists still holding seats in government! Where is the DOJ? We are told that Jack Smith, the prosecutor, is still due to arrive from England ; the latest is that he is recovering from a bicycle accident. Will justice ever be served?? Or is the entire lot bought up or just scared? ( I hope he is ok. My husband is an avid bicyclist and I am often concerned about his safety out on the roads.).
Both congress and DOJ wait and drag their heels to see which way the wind blows. No one wants to go too far from their personal pack (PAC) for fear that they will go on record for something that will cut off their funding.
G.P. B ; kind of like 'the power behind the throne', no doubt.The wealthy donors are not known or voted in.
"Members can object..." but doing so would cost them their new majority. Catch-22!
Democracy (limited as it is in the US) has not served the American masses well. Too much attention to big business and to middle class social issues, not enough attention to lower class economic needs. So the masses have taken the MAGA option.
Also reflects the difficulty we all have with people who overstep their authority. Often that kind of behaviour is tolerated too long, allowing the powerful to cement their position and become too powerfull to challenge. Seems that the US establishment is frightened now of taking on the republican far right.
We will see what happens with the vote on the Speaker of the House., that is clearly a power move on the part of the extreme right. A competent majority should be able to brush them aside.
That is the bitter lesson of the fellow-travelers who enabled the insurrectionists. They are now a shadow army, unable to keep peace against the nuts.
Indeed!!
Ironic that tRump has said the same thing about this situation : "We will see what happens".
Edward Hitchcock ; With good reason they are frightened.
It is more important to prosecute the 9 congresspeople mentioned, as well as state officials down the line, than to prosecute Trump. He could not have done what he did, without help. Anyone can replace him, and try again, with the structure he left in place.
In our hearts, we want Trump to pay. But to protect our democracy, it seems more important to focus on everyone else.
His reign is self-limited—by his age, and his increasingly visible mental illness. The cost of incarcerating him would be astronomical. He lost in 2020, and surely he has not gained more support since then.
It seems prudent at this point to focus on the vast support system below him that would still allow someone else to repeat his plan.
I absolutely disagree. It is vitally imperative that Trump be indicted and prosecuted. To not do so invites more of the same, perhaps even worse. And by worse I mean succeeding.
Wonderful . . . The voice of reason arrives!
Why the DOJ is tip-toeing around upsetting extremists both in and out of government is perplexing and frustrating. Indict all of them including these Freedom Caucus knuckleheads. Let them prove they didn’t foment an insurrection in court. The DOJ by now should be able to prove they did. Anyone with a hint of critical thinking skills and good hearing knows they’re all traitors.
It is heartening to see Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell and others doing a bipartisan bridge building photo op. The whole idea of good government of, by and for the people is to take care of the infrastructure and health of each other and support our country. If those who have drunk the kool aid can get the idea of how it is supposed to work, maybe we can see some change in the right direction.
Why don’t we March on Washington for Accountability?
I'm grateful that these chazers expose themselves. ALL House Republicans are MAGA insurrectionists until proven otherwise.
What would your protest sign of a few words say?
Every member who takes the oath should declare they were not involved in the insurrection.
4 to 6 words
NO INSURRECTIONISTS!
ok--- or NO GOP INSURRECTIONISTS!
Good assessment of the frustration with the DOJ. I think Joe and the machinery of Washington are moving slowly as a caution not to stir up the groups in this country who are watching for reasons to move forward with armed insurrection. Jail time and court dates have become so common in America there are not many citizens not looking over their shoulders. Rash Federal , inappropriate moves might trigger some red states to secede. That would be the trigger for our hot-button competition (Korea, Russia, China) to up their aggressive posturing. If the red states can be aligned by Washington's friendly moves (think El Paso) and eventual demonstration to Republicans (and undecided) ,the de-escalation of tensions would be another win for Joe. The goal is to make it to 2024 elections.
Thanks for bringing my temperature down a tad.
I suppose it serves a purpose to once again run through the litany of all the politicians who are thumbing their noses at the two tier judicial system where the powerful and the rich have nothing to worry about. However, your note would be a lot more useful if you were to draw conclusions and indict the candy ass prosecutors, lawyers, judges and assorted assistants who are eagerly giving the worst miscreants a free pass and expose the system that calls for that. We don't need simply endless descriptions. That is what the corporate law breakers do. When asked about their roles or responsibilities they fall back on endless descriptions.
Here in Arizona call that taking the bull by the horns!! We have been buried in that animals leavings for far too long. Time to pull up the big girl panties and get active, Ladies and gentlemen.
In 1945, it took the Allied Forces only 197 (!) days - counted from the day of the total surrender by the Germans on May 8 - to get their act together and prosecute the senior culprits, like Hermann Goering, starting in November in Nuremberg. Given the state of Europe after WWII, they nonetheless had all the evidence needed, witnesses lined up and had issued the indictments already in August. For January 6, it's been 730 days now! A miserable failure of the DOJ trapped in their analysis paralysis.