Now that I've got info on the Hamas defense strategy, I have a better idea of what Israel must deal with. >Disregard everything< I previously said about mounting a massive strike on Tehran. A strike on Tehran would serve no useful purpose because Israel is pinned. I'm now persuaded that Israel has no choice but to invade. Hamas seems to …
Now that I've got info on the Hamas defense strategy, I have a better idea of what Israel must deal with. >Disregard everything< I previously said about mounting a massive strike on Tehran. A strike on Tehran would serve no useful purpose because Israel is pinned. I'm now persuaded that Israel has no choice but to invade. Hamas seems to have learned an important lesson from Vietnam - that was a bugger-all for the US forces.
It seems that Hamas has been busy building an extensive spider web network of multi-level tunnels, where critical operations, like HQ, ammo dumps, command posts, barracks, etc. are all built >under< facilities like hospitals, schools, etc. They also tap into the utilities of the facilities they're built under to divert power, water, and anything else they need to operate. This goes far beyond simply holding naked civilians captive as human shields. Even if Israel bombs the facilities, it will have little impact on the fortifications built beneath them. In fact, the facilities above them act as further physical fortification for what lies below, even if blown to rubble. The rubble will perhaps serve even better as fortification from bomb & missile attacks, because rubble will disperse the strength of an explosion even better.
That means the invasion force must locate and crack the underground facilities. At that, the facilities are apparently just wide enough for single-file passage. That's a lesson from Thermopylae, where 300 Greeks stood off against thousands of Persians. Further, they have to be on the lookout for "hidey holes" or "kill chambers" from which they can be ambushed. Add to that, they'll have to find access to and repeat the same operation on multiple levels. I'll wager they'll be forced to do all that using night-vision headgear, as well - just to make it even more difficult.
I doubt any of that will be accomplished very soon. Even if Israel were to court the notion of a Tehran strike, they'll have to ferret out the Hamas defenses prior to such a campaign, in order to secure their rear. Israel will get full US support, while the EU better consider upping their game with Ukraine for the sake of EU security. I'm in no way sanguine about US support for Ukraine. Worse, it appears Turkey is making noise about getting into the Gaza conflict. If they do, they may well be sacrificing accession into the EU - just when it seemed the issue of Kurds in - was it - Sweden seemed to be ironed out. In my view, the state of foreign diplomacy has officially become a friggin' mess! The attack on Israel truly served both Moscow and Tehran, and no, I don't think Putin had any more hand in it than asking help from his ally, Tehran. Israel must >completely< destroy an extensive, multi-level underground fortification. They'll >always< be vulnerable to such strikes if they don't.
To say this is the result of a massive intelligence failure doesn't even begin to describe what has come to pass in Israel.
Hamas has been planning this attack for decades. Their tunnel system alone! There are many news drops that Bibi new it up to 10 days before. What do you think?
I have no doubt about anything on that score, except to say I haven't seen any documented evidence on it. From my perspective, it's hearsay, although what isn't hearsay is that Netanyahu is a convict, and it astonishes me that he wins elections regardless - not unlike, but far more effective than his spiritual disciple, ol' P01135809. I'm inclined to believe it was a bit like the attack on Pearl Harbor back in the '40s. Fleet HQ had reports of an approaching arial formation from its radar outposts sufficiently early to prepare for an attack but blew it off as a probable false alarm - a flock of birds, I believe - and continued on with their Sunday morning routines. The rest is history.
Ironic as far as it goes. The distinction is deadly serious. In Warsaw, the tunnels were used as a primarily defensive measure, to hide a mostly unarmed civilian population. Gaza flips that on it's head, using tunnels as a primary assault weapon/fortification, while the mostly unarmed civilians - protected in Warsaw - get to bleed all over them instead.
Don't get me started! The big difference is that Viet Minh/Viet Kong tunnels were mostly under barely inhabitable jungles - which was most of the country. That's why all the Agent Orange and Napalm. Historically, using those tactics they even managed to throw the Chinese out, although they were uneasy allies against the US. Gaza is mostly a short, narrow, densely populated piece of real-estate. I'm thinkin' the Kong tunnels might have been more effective, relying heavily on natural cover. They were also more ad-hoc. On the other hand, the Hamas tunnels seem to have been heavily engineered. Their main weakness seems to be that you can probably bet some critical target lies beneath some critical civilian architecture. That's where the Kong tunnels would've been more effective. Critical outposts could be anywhere in the jungle. But what do I know? I'm just speculating. I'm just some guy with a notion here. However, I'll just bet that if I'm wrong, I'm not too far wrong.
DZK, I’ve been wondering how all those so called missiles from Iran were sneaked into Hamas territory without anybody, US INCLUDED, Intelligence folks not seeing it happen? Tunnel rats have aggravated every major war/conflict but they could level most all of It with Bunker Buster bombs like was used in Afghanistan. The problem is all those hospitals, doctors, staff & refugees who will not leave the area of North Gaza! They say Hamas is keeping them there as human shields! I believe all the Palestinians & HAMAS think they have checkmated Israel & that they will back down. I would not bet on that if I were them! Israel seems determined to rout the terrorists from the country Whatever the cost! But the US, Europe & the Arab countries keep pushing restraint on them & to minimize collateral damage! Does any other country @ war even give that a passing thought?? Don’t believe so, so why should Israel? Hubby & I r behind Israel & their challenge to kill all the Hamas terrorists! And then go after Hezbollah. How they will get to the Leaders hiding out in Quatar is anybody’s guess but seems like it would have to be some covert operation with Massad & their form of seals or rangers! U know they must have protection & security provided by the Qua tares so it wouldn’t be easy. I do hope they will be able to get rid of Netanyahu bec he’s too much like the tRumpster! They voted the corrupt bastard out of office but he just pushed his way back in saying they had some kind of agreement to work together! He must have more experience fighting the terrorists.
It’s such a mess like most wars are but I hope Israel gets the job done & rids the Middle East of more terrorists. That’s one mean group that can radicalize & recruit more terrorists without much effort so I don’t believe the World will ever be completing rid of them! Terrorists or fascists means the generals will never be without somebody to make war games over.
Now that I've got info on the Hamas defense strategy, I have a better idea of what Israel must deal with. >Disregard everything< I previously said about mounting a massive strike on Tehran. A strike on Tehran would serve no useful purpose because Israel is pinned. I'm now persuaded that Israel has no choice but to invade. Hamas seems to have learned an important lesson from Vietnam - that was a bugger-all for the US forces.
It seems that Hamas has been busy building an extensive spider web network of multi-level tunnels, where critical operations, like HQ, ammo dumps, command posts, barracks, etc. are all built >under< facilities like hospitals, schools, etc. They also tap into the utilities of the facilities they're built under to divert power, water, and anything else they need to operate. This goes far beyond simply holding naked civilians captive as human shields. Even if Israel bombs the facilities, it will have little impact on the fortifications built beneath them. In fact, the facilities above them act as further physical fortification for what lies below, even if blown to rubble. The rubble will perhaps serve even better as fortification from bomb & missile attacks, because rubble will disperse the strength of an explosion even better.
That means the invasion force must locate and crack the underground facilities. At that, the facilities are apparently just wide enough for single-file passage. That's a lesson from Thermopylae, where 300 Greeks stood off against thousands of Persians. Further, they have to be on the lookout for "hidey holes" or "kill chambers" from which they can be ambushed. Add to that, they'll have to find access to and repeat the same operation on multiple levels. I'll wager they'll be forced to do all that using night-vision headgear, as well - just to make it even more difficult.
I doubt any of that will be accomplished very soon. Even if Israel were to court the notion of a Tehran strike, they'll have to ferret out the Hamas defenses prior to such a campaign, in order to secure their rear. Israel will get full US support, while the EU better consider upping their game with Ukraine for the sake of EU security. I'm in no way sanguine about US support for Ukraine. Worse, it appears Turkey is making noise about getting into the Gaza conflict. If they do, they may well be sacrificing accession into the EU - just when it seemed the issue of Kurds in - was it - Sweden seemed to be ironed out. In my view, the state of foreign diplomacy has officially become a friggin' mess! The attack on Israel truly served both Moscow and Tehran, and no, I don't think Putin had any more hand in it than asking help from his ally, Tehran. Israel must >completely< destroy an extensive, multi-level underground fortification. They'll >always< be vulnerable to such strikes if they don't.
To say this is the result of a massive intelligence failure doesn't even begin to describe what has come to pass in Israel.
Hamas has been planning this attack for decades. Their tunnel system alone! There are many news drops that Bibi new it up to 10 days before. What do you think?
I have no doubt about anything on that score, except to say I haven't seen any documented evidence on it. From my perspective, it's hearsay, although what isn't hearsay is that Netanyahu is a convict, and it astonishes me that he wins elections regardless - not unlike, but far more effective than his spiritual disciple, ol' P01135809. I'm inclined to believe it was a bit like the attack on Pearl Harbor back in the '40s. Fleet HQ had reports of an approaching arial formation from its radar outposts sufficiently early to prepare for an attack but blew it off as a probable false alarm - a flock of birds, I believe - and continued on with their Sunday morning routines. The rest is history.
Inhabitants of the Warsaw Ghetto also dug tunnels and hideaways to escape the round-ups of the SS. Irony, anyone?
Ironic as far as it goes. The distinction is deadly serious. In Warsaw, the tunnels were used as a primarily defensive measure, to hide a mostly unarmed civilian population. Gaza flips that on it's head, using tunnels as a primary assault weapon/fortification, while the mostly unarmed civilians - protected in Warsaw - get to bleed all over them instead.
Yes, that’s true. How about the tunnels of the Viet Minh?
Don't get me started! The big difference is that Viet Minh/Viet Kong tunnels were mostly under barely inhabitable jungles - which was most of the country. That's why all the Agent Orange and Napalm. Historically, using those tactics they even managed to throw the Chinese out, although they were uneasy allies against the US. Gaza is mostly a short, narrow, densely populated piece of real-estate. I'm thinkin' the Kong tunnels might have been more effective, relying heavily on natural cover. They were also more ad-hoc. On the other hand, the Hamas tunnels seem to have been heavily engineered. Their main weakness seems to be that you can probably bet some critical target lies beneath some critical civilian architecture. That's where the Kong tunnels would've been more effective. Critical outposts could be anywhere in the jungle. But what do I know? I'm just speculating. I'm just some guy with a notion here. However, I'll just bet that if I'm wrong, I'm not too far wrong.
Thanks for your thoughtful speculations. As you might have gathered, I’m wearied by endless war in Palestine — like just about everyone else.
Hear, hear!
DZK, I’ve been wondering how all those so called missiles from Iran were sneaked into Hamas territory without anybody, US INCLUDED, Intelligence folks not seeing it happen? Tunnel rats have aggravated every major war/conflict but they could level most all of It with Bunker Buster bombs like was used in Afghanistan. The problem is all those hospitals, doctors, staff & refugees who will not leave the area of North Gaza! They say Hamas is keeping them there as human shields! I believe all the Palestinians & HAMAS think they have checkmated Israel & that they will back down. I would not bet on that if I were them! Israel seems determined to rout the terrorists from the country Whatever the cost! But the US, Europe & the Arab countries keep pushing restraint on them & to minimize collateral damage! Does any other country @ war even give that a passing thought?? Don’t believe so, so why should Israel? Hubby & I r behind Israel & their challenge to kill all the Hamas terrorists! And then go after Hezbollah. How they will get to the Leaders hiding out in Quatar is anybody’s guess but seems like it would have to be some covert operation with Massad & their form of seals or rangers! U know they must have protection & security provided by the Qua tares so it wouldn’t be easy. I do hope they will be able to get rid of Netanyahu bec he’s too much like the tRumpster! They voted the corrupt bastard out of office but he just pushed his way back in saying they had some kind of agreement to work together! He must have more experience fighting the terrorists.
It’s such a mess like most wars are but I hope Israel gets the job done & rids the Middle East of more terrorists. That’s one mean group that can radicalize & recruit more terrorists without much effort so I don’t believe the World will ever be completing rid of them! Terrorists or fascists means the generals will never be without somebody to make war games over.