A very moving story,Robert.”Be perfect or I shall abandon you”.I can definitely relate but my story is of an emotionally and physically abusive father who himself had come from an abusive childhood on the island of PR.The family moved to Chelsea on the lower west side of Manhattan in 1951 - the same year that a 19 yr old shy Mickey Mantle joined the NY Yankees.But I digress.The abuse was essentially abandonment so I quickly took refuge in books and in attaining straight A’s in grade school,Jesuit HS, Jesuit College at Fordham( Trump was 2 yrs ahead of me at the Rose Hill campus in ”Da Bronx”,)Baruch College for Master’s work and then the icing on the academic cake:Harvard Medical School.I had internalized the falsehood that my self worth and my academic achievements were one and the same.By age 7, I had become” a human doing” rather than a “ human being”.Yrs of therapy to help resolve my post traumatic distress syndrome payed off.I no longer rely on straight A’s to avoid abandonment/ ridicule.I am a child of God and as such I am ok being I.Lesson learned.Now joyfully retired from the practice of geriatrics, living in San Antonio( loved Davy Crockett /Fess Parker growing up in 1950’s),enjoying plenty of travel, singing doowop, and spending quality time with u as I read your spot on
Posts every day as well as spending quality time with family and friends.Abandonment issues resolved.
Both of you are so spot on as to the insecurity and fear of abandonment that causes perfectionism and Workaholism!
This is more important than many people realize, especially us New Yorkers!
As we stress ourselves out, not being emotionally present with ourselves and our loved ones, we cause so many often unrealized problems.
COMPULSIVELY “Working hard” (as opposed to intentionally and mindfully doing so by choice) is generally acceptable as one of the few acceptable “isms” (I seek misery) unlike alcoholism, etc.
Thank you,Cara.Work,Eating,Gambling.even religion ( Father Leo Booth’s excellent” When God is a Drug “ comes to mind)-all can be addressed in a 12 step program.Letting go and letting God.
"I did a study at a community mental health clinic in New York to evaluate the accuracy of therapists’ and caregivers’ evaluations who brought children in for treatment. I asked the children, their therapists, and their mothers to rate how they thought the children were feeling.
When I analyzed the data, I was amazed to discover that the therapists’ accuracy was about zero. And the mothers didn’t do any much better! There was pretty much no correlation between how the children felt and how their therapists (or mothers) thought they felt.
The errors were not trivial. For example, the mother of one little boy rated his depression and suicidal urges at zero. She was convinced that her son did not feel depressed, and the therapist agreed with this assessment.
How did the boy actually feel?
His depression and suicidal scores were at the top of the scale! In the margin of the assessment test, he wrote that he had borrowed a gun from a friend and had plans to kill himself on Friday. In this case, mind reading* almost resulted in the death of a little boy, but the assessment test alerted the mother and therapist to what was really going on and likely saved his life."
Power, your study demonstrates just how much we adults want kids to be OK and want to pretend they are. Since I couldn't see my students' expressions, I had to ask them how they were feeling. As my students got to know me over time, they would often actually tell me how and I could hear it in what they were saying. Asking rather than assuming is powerful, especially if the adult is trusted by the child. School should be fun, interesting, and challenging for everyone involved. When it becomes a chore as it clearly was for Ms. Bouton, an intervention of some kind should happen. It can be as simple as changing the way one teaches the curriculum, changing the way the desks or tables are arranged, having students help in some way in the classroom or school, reading a new story, then letting the children lead the discussion, discussing emotions and asking students to pick one they feel a lot and have children draw it or write a story about it as a group or something like that. Teachers get in a rut as Ms. Bouton did and need help getting themselves and their students out of it. Parents also need help when stuck in a rut. We now have the internet that is filled with ideas people have used successfully. It is a plus when teachers and parents use it. Talking with other teachers and parents works. Talking to children to see what they think they need or how they can learn best can be great too. I wonder what Prof. Reich would have answered if asked by anyone at that age what he would like different at home or at school. I bet he would have had a lot to suggest.
I don't think you're a dinosaur but rather a person with decades of experience in sorting out what's important and what's not including the one-source rambling posts here that make no sense to anyone :-)
Thank you for that kind reply. I love working with young people because their energy and intellect match our wisdom. Have you heard of the SEE Alliance (Social Equity through Education) Zander Moricz is the local (Sarasota, FL) leader. A wonderful group of young people. He's taking time away from college to be active.
Wonderful story! I don't mean about the abuse or stress but about how you overcame it and are now living your best life!! Kudos to you, Jose!! I loved Davy Crockett, the King of the Wild Frontier!! I also loved Daniel Boone. There were really good shows back then! Enjoy the great things you have in your life!
Thank you,Peggy , for your kind words.I have shared my story with many of my senior patients in hopes of helping them seek out the resources with which to heal/ put closure to their abusive past.
PS:One of my most fav moments was getting to meet and talk at length to Fess Parker when he visited the Alamo here in San Antonio in March 1994.A very kind, thoughtful 6’6” giant of a man.RIP
You were lucky to have met him in person. Watching him on TV, I was always in awe of how huge he was!! I have to laugh because I found myself repeating what my Granddad use to say, "They don't make actors that good any more!".
Thanks to you and Dr. Reich for sharing your heartfelt stories. I, too have plenty as does every kid in every generation. But rather than sharing the details, I will say that while I may have hated the negative individuals (some teachers, family members, etc,) in my young life, later experiences that included marriage, motherhood, realized professional accomplishments and spiritual growth
taught me that people in our lives, whether negative or positive influences, are meant to be our teachers and help us understand how we must choose to be or not to be.
As well as a fortune - which he used to buy his renamed winery - from real estate and an overpriced hotel in Santa Barbara.
Although I was a great fan of Disney's presentation of Davy Crockett not as a racist, murdering bigot but as a hero for all little boys and girls who were certain that Mexicans were all evil and that the good guys (that is, the imperialist invaders) should have formal ownership of that huge chunk of Mexican land previously referred to as Tejas.
But what did we know when we were kids, especially since it was provided to us in weekly installments that we waited anxiously all week to see?
Now, many years later, I eagerly await the time when Texas is given back to Mexico, where it really belongs.
Regrettably,when the story of the Alamo is told, rarely do we get to hear Santa Ana and Mejico’s side of that story.I highly recommend reading “Forget the Alamo” a revisionist new look at the story.Santa Ana offered American colonials the opportunity to enter and settle in the Mexican province of Tejas with the clear understanding that they would not bring slaves, ; convert to Roman Catholicism; and pay their fair share of taxes to Mexico City.All three stipulations were not adhered to as agreed upon and the result was the Texas Revolution./Revolt
I was also a huge fan of Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone, and although only 5-6 years old when Davy Crockett appeared on Disneyland, I decided I'd marry him when I was a little older :-). When Fess Parker played Daniel Boone some years later, I still had a huge crush on him; in fact, that crush remains. Oh, to have met him in person as you did!
You will not insult me if you re-text your message in simple English.Respectfully texting, you sound like an engineer.Let’s try it again.Give it to me in Mickey Mouse English.I am comfortable in my 76 years young skin.👍
You and Robert Reich turned out to be such high achievers and good compassionate people contributing to humanity. Is it possible that having to put up with tough times has something to do with it? I had bumps in my life, but believe I was generally spoiled. I haven’t become a doctor or a cabinet member. Hmmmm. Is there a connection?
Excellent question. I am much the same, doing good things, but never working harder than necessary (I was a B student except in electives I liked). I had wondered if the Great Recession would have some positive side effects. Fortunately Obama handled it well and it didn’t last long enough to test the theory.
There is,DK.There is something salvific about successfully navigating around abuse and abandonment.Luck with having loving mentors also plays a vital role Out of the abyss ,one learns courage, resiliency,hope,focus,love, empathy, and finally forgiveness.Commtment shows its face .Here is a quote that has had life long effects on me with my adherence to the content:
COMMITMENT
Until one is committed, there is hesitancy,
The chance to draw back,
Always ineffectiveness.
Concerning all acts of initiative and creation,
There is one elementary truth,
the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans:
That moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too..
All sorts of things occur to help one
That would never otherwise have occurred.
A whole stream of events issues from the decision.
Raising in one’s favor All manner of unforeseen incidents and Meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way.
Not at all.He is a very kind, forgiving, Brother and Friend.Always smiling.Unassuming.I really never left the Jesuits when starting my studies at Baruch.I internalized their teachings.From Baruch, He guided me to Harvard Medical School and eventually to San Antonio De Bejar.The rest is history.Somehow, as a Baby Boomer growing up with Fess Parker and Disney’s Davy Crockett, I knew that I would eventually live in the city he visited in 1836 and never left.The Alamo where he lost his life in battle is but a very short drive from my residence.
Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so glad your abandonment issues are resolved - and that you're enjoying your life.
I also commend you for the way your traumas of abuse and abandonment drove you to a life of accomplishment and service vs. repeating the patterns of abuse or falling into addiction or other destructive behaviors to numb the pain.
I always wonder why different people react so differently to childhood traumas - why some manage to thrive, some do OK but with struggles - and some to self-destructive behaviors or inflicting abuse on others. What are your thoughts on this?
Loved San Antonio when my late husband and I visited on our way around the North American continent playing golf wherever we decided to stop. Wanted to play there but we got rained out but loved the vibrant culture there.
Hyper generic cut and paste from a distilled co-dependency / co-alcoholic (type) forum.
Very familiar blueprint syntactically in spite of overly chaotic spacing of letters to simulate "Natural" human errors commensurate with claimed experience and education.
85 % synthetic plant + post processing < 15% human intervention.
Poor little boy. I appreciate your sharing these vulnerable moments and childhood fears. How vivid your memories are from so long ago. As a former preschool and kindergarten Montessori teacher, I hope to God I was never that downright mean to the little boys and girls I worked with. This depicts the "bad old days" for preschool children.
This memoir brings up the issue of unavailable, unaffordable daycare in this country. One of the reasons Trump got suburban women voters in 2016 is because his daughter promised Fed funded daycare, then of course admitted she couldn't do that after the election.
Why can't the Biden administration at least try to get such a program, somehow? It's a serious problem for young working families.
I'm sure Reich was a nurturing mother as Reich is a kind, caring person. But I question that she left him in the care of such a person to begin with. Possibly she was concerned that he needed to be with other children to learn socializing more than she wanted her freedom.
Ms. Bouton's problem was she had a giant of a man in his infancy, and he was stewing over what she was serving him every day for lunch. Maybe it was sarcasm stew.
“One of the reasons Trump got suburban women voters in 2016 is because his daughter promised Fed funded daycare, then of course admitted she couldn't do that after the election.”
Exactly! I think many people have forgotten that! Perhaps those women who believed her lie caused him to win!
Yes, we need to get rid of the Electoral College! Along with Citizens United and we need to prosecute ALL those involved in subverting the election which President Biden rightfully won.
The only other key thing that needs to happen is putting goverment/civics back as a requirement in elementary/secondary schools so we teach OUR DEMOCRACY to the upcoming generations. Separation of church and state doesn't mean keeping state out of church as some claim. And our freedoms come with duties and obligations. How could we have decided it wasn't important to teach our government to our children? We are reaping what was sowed. Ignorance running rampant susceptible to any whack job's opinions vs facts.
Thank you TJ. I remind people of this too. The people elected Hilary Clinton but our voices were negated by the electoral college. W Bush did Not win against Gore. Our nation was sent on the wrong trajectory because the majority of the people were refused our win.
Marlo. I assume you are referring to Eric B Lange with your comment about a "Russian bot." The words he uses seem to be aligned in such a way as to appear to be sentences. But at first glance they seem to be only a concatenation of linguistic symbols. Symbols which make no sense most of the time. On second thought; the term concatenation is too kind. The words seem to be randomly selected from a thesaurus. However If the words are produced by an actual human being attempting to use the English language; then I would suggest he needs language lessons or counseling by a competent psychiatrist because he is psychotically out of contact with reality. If he is a bot; the issue is not moot, it is settled.
Poor Bob has been plagued by various degrees of chatbot / spambot / heuristic inference engines for many months now - BUT their subscriptions are ALL paid for.
I can't even imagine how people didn't realize. He was always a grotesque snake. the Hollywood access tape should have cinched it. How anyone could and will vote for him is unfathomable...in today's world, Jim Jones would be president! Oy.
Neither can I. The Central Park Five and Birtherism should have made everything very clear, at once. My big surprise is how many Americans are horrible people just like him. That is what "woke" means to me. I did not know how widespread, deep and dangerous American racism is, or how strong the Confederacy still is. Now I do. Wake up America.
Some see it immediately & some never do. First time I was ever exposed to him back in the 1980s I could see he was a conman & a jerk. Every subsequent time, all involuntary, just confirmed it. The idea that he could be President, when it was first proposed, I found preposterous as there was no public figure more unfit for the job.
Right. Why would any mother want to raise her own child?!!! And, at the same time, why would any mother not wanting to raise her own child want to pay for the daycare herself?! Let's hope the government (i.e., the taxpayer) will pick up the tab for all these mothers who don't want to raise their own child.
Enrolling a child in preschool or daycare does not equal not wanting to raise their child. It is giving an opportunity to meet and play with other children. It is an opportunity to give the child exposure to other hopefully loving adults. For many children it is an opportunity to prepare for elementary school .
It is not meant to be punitive and an educated child is not a waste of taxpayer money.
After my mom got divorced in 1950 & was a single, working mother, I was walked to the local Community Chest daycare a block away in St. Louis each morning. Not many memories of that, good or bad just a playground with other kids. My memories start at 5, in Kindergarten at a 19th Century grade school half a block away, with a cafeteria in the basement that had its own peculiar smell.
Joan - I live in a rural community. We mothers of young children would form little round-robins, just for the mornings, taking turns having all the children in one home. This didn't cost anything and it gave us each a little time without constant childcare. And the children learned to play and socialize with eachother. I will always be grateful that we had this setup.
We did that in Bklyn NY over the summer w 5 families. We called it free DIY camp. Each family took all 5 (or so) kids for 1 weekday on an outing. The kids came w their own lunch and each family paid for their own child’s outing (if there was a cost). We discussed signing liability forms (although we never actually did) but we did discuss safety precautions. This allowed the parents to spend 1 intense but fun day w all the kids and get 4 days “off” to do other things and it was great socialization and fun for the kids. We did it for 2 weeks per summer for a few years but I imagine that could be extended. It worked well.
Judgment where Information is lacking. I was so blessed to be able to stay at home with my six children. But times were very different. My kids could play sports on teams in the village with minimal cost. They took dance lessons for a dollar a lesson. TV was free. Even their school education was affordable. These days EVERYTHING costs an exorbitant amount of money and in most homes there has to be two incomes just to afford a place to live.
Agreed. It was tough in the 1970’s and it’s worse now. Rather than simply only subsidize the crazy costs, I hope our leaders will look at why things are so crazy costly.
What family would choose to be “nuclear,” if that meant isolation from other adults and children in the community? Stop and think about the actual circumstances, before mouthing off here, Paul. Living in a more tribal circumstance, there would be ample other adults and children — multiple families — forming the close-by-and-accessible “village” that it really DOES take to raise a child. Being isolated in a “nuclear family household” most of the day, with no one to share vigilance over the safety of the children and no other adult to talk to or interact with, and no other children with whom the child can play … THAT is where the idea of family and child care and socialization breaks down, NOT in the fact of a mother wanting to provide companion children for her kid, as well as a break in her day for herself.
{When my kids were little, I CHOSE to be a “Stay at Home” Mom, but that was a privilege a hell of a lot of other mothers didn’t have at the time. I was able not only to “stay at home,” but to “work at home,” as a freelance proofreader for a major publisher in New Jersey, and I was paid a great hourly rate to do it.
Three hours a day, five days a week, my kids went to a nursery school and I worked at home. They had kids and fun times, and were watched over by caring adults; I earned money.
Ms. Obrien. Well said. I studied and taught Sociology of the Family for years and there is no question in my mind that the Extended Family is a much healthier environment than the Nuclear Family. The Nuclear Family was a creation of the Capitalist-industrial innovation of the economy. Bad for human beings. Hillary was correct: "It Takes a Village"
While I am at it; I must say I am disappointed at the way the word "tribal" has been used to denigrate so many forms of social organization which are not modern Western/Capitalist/Consumer oriented. "Tribal" life is much healthier for the psyche of humans than the kind of social organization which predominates in the modern Western World. It is our Oppressive, White, Western, Settler-Colonial Christian view of life that motivates us to denigrate alternative forms of the Family. The Kevin Costner film "Dances With wolves" delivers an interesting interpretation.
The Anthropological evidence is clear: Humankind lived in Extended Families for tens of thousands of years before Industrial Capitalism reared its ugly head in the last couple centuries.
And I agree about the words “tribe” and “tribal,” as well. I think the words and the concept may be somewhat rehabilitated these days, and I for one use them as FINE words to describe the connections people have to each other, by blood or other types if “kinship.”
I was born around the time that Robert was in nursery school, and grew up in a neighborhood one step up from immigrant status. Dad had a good skilled trades job and mom stayed home with the kids. In those days, moms really stayed home because most families had only one car, if any, and it was horrible corralling kids on a bus. I watched my mother climbing the walls, day in and day out, doing menial chores and keeping us kids safe with nothing at all for her except soap operas. Women weren't paid enough to make it worth getting a job to get out of the house. I don't know who was more relieved when I began kindergarten, my mother or me.
Bingo. Mom’s weren’t just staying at home — too often they were trapped at home. And criticized for “coffee klatches,” which were the times they managed to see other adults and talk to people who had vocabularies.
Raising kids for me was a joy, but also a chore, and HARD.
The whole idea of living in isolated “nuclear” family groups without grandparents close, or aunts and uncles and cousins — THAT is what is unnatural for our species.
Pat-I agree wholeheartedly. I am one of those raised in a nuclear family, no siblings. My father was a naval officer, 2 years on active duty (gone), 2 years on shore duty (home). We moved every two years. My mother was a Jewish refugee from Germany. I’m 75 and still awkward in social situations despite having attended nursery school, girl scouts, and Saturday School. We are social animals and we need that companionship, understanding, and “play” times. We are not getting enough, and the pandemic made it worse.
Speaking of taxpayers.....those with the most pay the least. We could turn that around and then Americans could have "nice things" the way other developed nations do, things like affordable public education, pre-K to Post Grad.
I helped quite a lot with 3 kids and, then, with 7 grandchildren. I am really referring to pre-K kids, which I think should be at home with mom or dad.
That's better. Your initial comment is mean and privileged. I thank God my mother went to work and left me with a baby sitter who I adored and who was much better at spending long amounts of time with a toddler.
She may well have been {Prof. Reich could answer that question} the only option within Mrs. Reich’s reach — and other mothers used her. So, she was not considered a monster, though perhaps more authoritarian than little Robert preferred {and she served lima beans —ack! — that constitutes child abuse in my book, but the law disagrees with me. The law is wrong on this one.]
I do hope Robert and his mom found some sort of an accommodation or alternative appropriate morning regimen, for both their sakes.
Abandonment Fears can arise from many quarters, and they are NOT fun to have to cope with {take it from a kid whose father died suddenly when the kid was seven}.
We didn’t tell our parents what was done to us back in the day, and our parents didn’t question what the schools told them. I had untreated ADHD and could be quite disruptive, especially when bored. I had a nightmare first grade teacher who punished me by having me stand outside the class, weeping, often for an hour or more. She had one boy wear a dunce cap, and another had to wear pink bows in his hair for playing with girls. I finished the readers by November and had to do them all over again; I’d been reading since I was three. No one told their parents until years later. And my mother’s only concern was that I not do better than my older brother. By the end of the year I’d learned not to be a leader ( since I could lead my peers in some spectacular disruptions), not to disrupt, and to tune down the H in ADHD to constant fidgeting and inattention.
I sincerely hope that woman never taught again. She didn’t like sarcasm either. By the way, it’s pretty remarkable for a preschooler to get, let alone use, sarcasm. And I always found that many teachers struggled when encountering smarter kids. I didn’t teach, but I worked with kids, and I just loved the kids who were smarter than I was.
The U.S. casino economy has so much more to do with lack of parental support than, absolutely, anything happening in our nation. Lack of principles, too.
We didn't have the information we needed, including the support, to be more successful, ie., gratified, with parenting and teaching. . . back then, I want to say. However, it has been true in every decade, we've been here. Luckily, some youngsters got the care that they needed in order to become responsible and caring adults.
Charles: Is it possible that Robert was trying to compliment Miss B.? But had an involuntary need to spit the lima bean stew? A natural politician ! The truth won!
I think all children deserve love and respect from the adults in their lives. It sounds like you endured Miss Bouton. There are plenty of mediocre (and worse) teachers. Ironically, that might be part of the reason you turned out to be an excellent teacher and a darn good human! I should know, I sat in on your Wealth and Poverty class.
I must counter the comment by another who said it was nothing. Children are so influenced by their caregivers. The way they relate to us forms who we are and that gets planted deep within us. I can relate from my own life what I think must be my first memory and it was feelinga of abandonment and confusion. All I can determine is that it must have been when my mom was in the hospital giving birth to my 2.5 years younger brother. I don’t think I had ever been away from her before. Understanding it now with adult intellect helps but the emotional struggle as a child can be eternal. Thank you for being honest about the experience. Perhaps the chuckle that some may have in response to hearing this is merely covering up somethng within ourselves yet to be reconciled.
Regrettably “spare the rod, spoil the child” was an egregiously dysfunctional interpretation of the Bible.Striking children was condoned ,leaving life long internal wounds which more times than not was passed down from generation to generation.The child victim would grow up to be the adult victimizer.The sins of the fathers would be visited upon the sons.
My niece would repeatedly hit her younger brother. One day my sister-in-law hauled off and slapped her. My niece looked shocked, but she never hit her brother again.
He must have healed because his nickname for his sister was “honey”. I wonder if this was actually better, as it resolved the problem quicker, than years of therapy.
My sister’s granddaughter is a terror in the family at 5. She has been having counseling for 2 years. She controls and disrupts the family. It robs the joy of others around her.
child who has been “ corrected” by a slap in the face , I can show you others who will internalize the assault and suffer from low self esteem -especially so if it is a chronic occurrence.The “ corrected, slapped child stands corrected out of fear- not out of knowing that the corrected behavior is morally unacceptable.MRI’s on the physically abused reveal very distinct differences vis a vis MRI’s findings in the fortunate few who were reared in loving, non abusive homes.
Hmmm. I believe every child, which we all were at one time, is impressionable and we don’t get to choose the impressions. As an adult we can come to terms with them but there are still consequences that we’ve already lived becuase of those impressions. That Robert has such vivid memory of this experience, both the teacher and what he thought was his mother’s reason for taking him there, has made an impression on me. My best response is that I remember my own words when dealing with my 2 very young granddaughters and in counseling the parents of newborns with whom I work. The challenge is to now make more good impressions as it’s the negative ones that often have the longest “sticking” power.
Nancy, I am curious. Is it possible that children experienced something when very young that they do not actually remember but it has caused such an impression that they act out without understanding why? I hope that question made sense. I'm thinking of adults who have definite problems and can't seem to fix them. I'm not a psychiatrist but it sounds from your post that you do counsel.
Thanks, I was just wondering. I have had friends that suffered like this. It was almost like PTSD and sometimes I lost friends but couldn't figure out why. I worried it might be me but I have been to a counselor and learned that I was okay, just basically a worrier about everything!
Peggy…It’s always worthwhile to be curious about such effects. My “counsel” while professional and incorporates psychology it is more as a guide and coach. I am a neonatal nurse and after years in the hospital setting and professional education I’ve transitioned to being in the homes of families with newborns. My guidance is mostly supportive but helping parents learn their baby. Hopefully, such early supports helps build a positive relationship and confidence in the mom/dad so that frustration and difficulty coping with infant stage is reduced with lasting effects.
People, kids too, in order to survive, can repress painful, horrible memories of abuse or trauma by repressing them. Repression is a psychological defense mechanism in which unpleasant thoughts or memories are pushed from the conscious mind. An example might be someone who does not recall abuse in their early childhood, but still has problems with connection, aggression and anxiety resulting from the unremembered trauma. If abused or traumatized kids seek therapy as an adult, the therapy over time might help them uncover what was repressed so it can be consciously addressed & overcome with proper treatment.
“It’s delicious!” Sorry, but that is hilarious! Good for you. My younger son was expelled twice, at least. He liked to get naked & get on top of the tables & dance. He was all of 3 or 4. This was a preschool at a church, which we did not attend. Poor kid. I had to take off work (which I secretly really loved, but hated to miss work). I preferred to be home with my darling boys! They were 11 yrs apart - it may not have been a whole lot of fun if they were toddlers at the same time! By the way you were an adorable little kid!
Now I remember the younger one did get “kicked out” a few more times, at different childcare places & once, at least in 1st or 2nd grade.
He was finally diagnosed with ADD & I hate to say, was put on medication--which I hate to say, it gets very bad press, sometimes with good reason, it’s over prescribed, sometimes, well, a lot really. We didn’t make the decision lightly. So glad we did-- he is happy, married, degreed, & a lovely person! I got carried away, my apologies. Good nite.😴
Please don’t “hate to say” when it comes to ADHD treatment! My daughter and I both have what I would say is severe ADHD. She learned some excellent coping skills and now has a fairly high powered job as a designer, and takes both a stimulant and an antidepressant. And she’s wonderful! Manages her treatment well. I worked as a therapist, called a meeting with her school every September and provided them with books, and much more. She had one terrible preschool experience where she (and we as parents) were looked at as a problem, and they did not appreciate a mother who stuck her nose into things. Not the first issue, but as we were waiting for a spot to open up elsewhere, we were scolded because she engaged in the “unsanitary” act of drawing smiley faces on her knees, so that they could be viewed right side up by anyone sitting opposite her. Three. Never could figure out the problem with that one.
Thank you for sharing your personal story. I am so sorry it was so traumatic for you. Ms. Bouton had issues. Had she been able to be a very loving and kind person concerned with your comfort and well being, you probably wouldn't have felt abandoned by your mother. It could have been a place of joy.
Sadly, I think there are probably many of us who experienced trauma from feeling physically or emotionally abandoned by a parent. It is such a strong need in us way down deep that when not met, traumatizes us.. Though, I am not sure what to call that need. Maybe it's a need for love, belonging, or dignity? Or all three? Maybe a need to feel safe also?
All three or four,M Tree.The analogy looks like this and I shall use u as an example in the story I am going to cite.Once upon a time,2 year old M Tree was joyfully playing outside on the pavement of his home.His parents- distracted for the moment, did not see him while driving in reverse coming out of the family garage and ran over his left leg, crushing it.
Question number 1:Did they crush M Tree’s leg.? Ans: yes, they most certainly did.
Question 2:Did they do it on purpose? And:No.They were distracted.
Question::Did the incident cause significant pain,?.Ans:It hurt like the dickens.
Final Question:Has M Tree been limping all his life? Ans:Regrettably, yes he has,
But now it is up to M Tree to do everything possible to get that leg functioning again as well as possible.That is what therapy is about.
Your leg is your psyche.Care/ nurture it and then forgive.They did not know what they were doing. the day they were pulling out of their garage and failed to see u playing there.
Jose De Jesus, thank you, yes, you point to forgiveness. Such a difficult thing for us. And you remind me of some of my most favorite words of Jesus, some of his last words. "Forgive them for they know not what they do." I believe he was speaking more about our conditioned minds, our egos though, as opposed to pain caused by accident. I agree with your point of the importance of aspiring to forgiveness.
When I underwent my therapy for PTSD, a few things come to mind.To really heal,counselor Marvin Allen emphasized the importance of reliving every incident involving physical abuse and emotional abuse at the hands of BOTH parents.The therapy involved my imagining my father sitting in a corner chair and my addressing him in the language of my youth- Spanish.My inner child would come out and express hurt, fear, rage,- emotions repressed over many years.I would then be directed to emote my rage by striking a pillow with a plastic bat lest in not doing so, I would take it out against myself and those around me.These sessions lasted for years.Once my” father issues” had been addressed,I was asked to address my mother who- despite the fact that I intellectually knew that her intervention upon my behalf would evoke the wrath of my father upon her- still did nothing or very little to champion my cause.This part of the therapy was extremely difficult because I always looked upon my mother as a saint.Nonetheless, the work had to be done around her failures lest I take out my rage against every woman who would cross my path.The therapy took many, many years.It was very beneficial. and I do not regret walking “ the road less traveled”Extremely
painful and I can appreciate why thousands avoid taking that road, preferring to indulge in denial and in mood altering behavior with addiction to work, alcohol, sex, money,religion,illegal drugs,entertainment, etc - almost anything to distract them from themselves.The hole inside is huge and needs to be filled up with something.
Jose De Jesus, I am so sorry that you endured so much heavy pain as a child and an adult. Thank you for humbling and blessing me with your story. I am so glad you had access to a good therapist that could help you on your journey.
In life I have learned that there are many who have deep trauma. I believe we all have trauma, some very little on the continuum of trauma. It has existed for thousands of years in humans and unrecognized and unhealed it has festered. And so as you say, we unconsciously try to run from the pain. But we are becoming more aware and compassionate toward our emotional pain in society and this is excellent for hunankind.
I suggest reading books about Generational Trauma that gets passed down from generation to generation for millennia! Yes, millennia! Resmaa Menakem's book, My Grandmother's Hands, comes to mind as a good place to start. Gen. Tr. is both fascinating and terrifying at the same time AND it's necessary to understand so humanity can heal the tremendous pain that keeps us all stuck in not going as far as we could as individuals and as a species. When we finally understand Gen. Tr. we can rise, as individuals & as a species, to our greatest fulfillment, purpose, compassion, and love. Without continued abuses that breed addictions, we'd not have misogyny; unscrupulous politicians addicted to power; a controlling religious right addicted to imposing their beliefs & control on others; abusive police officers who murder people of color; abusive parents "acting out" with their kids the abuse they got from their parents; the abuse of animals & exploitation of nature & the environment; we wouldn't have slavery; wars, holocausts like in Germany and now in Gaza, and the list goes on. It all starts with an awareness of trauma and then seeking the therapy to heal from it. People like Jose De Jesus in the comments above are THE BRAVEST MOST NOBLE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET. They are doing the work to heal and their example invites us all to do the same. It's for our own personal benefit AND for the benefit of The Common Good.
RosePoet, thank you so much for your book recommendation. I will look it up.
And I strongly agree with everything you said. I can imagine a time in the future when most humans have become or are becoming aware of their trauma and are pursuing healing. You are right that sharing of our individual stories of generational trauma, such Jose did, as well as our sharing of collective traumas is necessary for our evolving consciousness. These are sacred stories.
I agree with your list of disturbing symptons of deep trauma that we see before us, everywhere we look. I would add a really important caveat though; some people who have experienced deep, severe intergenerational or other traumas are peaceful, not violent physically, verbally, or emotionally towards others. These people I believe had one or more important adults in their lives who juxtapositioned love, genuine love beside the trauma. And they could also be people who have transformed to peace during their healing journey.
There is a very powerful video that probably every social work student has seen. A father leaves his (toddler) child in a 24-hour daycare while the mother gives birth to a younger sibling. The care is absolutely inadequate, the child receives no comfort, adults do not recognize that he is reacting to profound loss, and it is clear that he is being damaged by the separation. The video is ancient, the days when mothers got days in hospital to recover, and parents (fathers?) were less tuned in to children’s needs. Very painful to watch.
A very moving story,Robert.”Be perfect or I shall abandon you”.I can definitely relate but my story is of an emotionally and physically abusive father who himself had come from an abusive childhood on the island of PR.The family moved to Chelsea on the lower west side of Manhattan in 1951 - the same year that a 19 yr old shy Mickey Mantle joined the NY Yankees.But I digress.The abuse was essentially abandonment so I quickly took refuge in books and in attaining straight A’s in grade school,Jesuit HS, Jesuit College at Fordham( Trump was 2 yrs ahead of me at the Rose Hill campus in ”Da Bronx”,)Baruch College for Master’s work and then the icing on the academic cake:Harvard Medical School.I had internalized the falsehood that my self worth and my academic achievements were one and the same.By age 7, I had become” a human doing” rather than a “ human being”.Yrs of therapy to help resolve my post traumatic distress syndrome payed off.I no longer rely on straight A’s to avoid abandonment/ ridicule.I am a child of God and as such I am ok being I.Lesson learned.Now joyfully retired from the practice of geriatrics, living in San Antonio( loved Davy Crockett /Fess Parker growing up in 1950’s),enjoying plenty of travel, singing doowop, and spending quality time with u as I read your spot on
Posts every day as well as spending quality time with family and friends.Abandonment issues resolved.
Dr. De Jesus and Mr. Reich,
Both of you are so spot on as to the insecurity and fear of abandonment that causes perfectionism and Workaholism!
This is more important than many people realize, especially us New Yorkers!
As we stress ourselves out, not being emotionally present with ourselves and our loved ones, we cause so many often unrealized problems.
COMPULSIVELY “Working hard” (as opposed to intentionally and mindfully doing so by choice) is generally acceptable as one of the few acceptable “isms” (I seek misery) unlike alcoholism, etc.
In case it may help someone: www.workaholics-anonymous.org
Thank you,Cara.Work,Eating,Gambling.even religion ( Father Leo Booth’s excellent” When God is a Drug “ comes to mind)-all can be addressed in a 12 step program.Letting go and letting God.
"Feeling Great" by Dr Burns
page238
"I did a study at a community mental health clinic in New York to evaluate the accuracy of therapists’ and caregivers’ evaluations who brought children in for treatment. I asked the children, their therapists, and their mothers to rate how they thought the children were feeling.
When I analyzed the data, I was amazed to discover that the therapists’ accuracy was about zero. And the mothers didn’t do any much better! There was pretty much no correlation between how the children felt and how their therapists (or mothers) thought they felt.
The errors were not trivial. For example, the mother of one little boy rated his depression and suicidal urges at zero. She was convinced that her son did not feel depressed, and the therapist agreed with this assessment.
How did the boy actually feel?
His depression and suicidal scores were at the top of the scale! In the margin of the assessment test, he wrote that he had borrowed a gun from a friend and had plans to kill himself on Friday. In this case, mind reading* almost resulted in the death of a little boy, but the assessment test alerted the mother and therapist to what was really going on and likely saved his life."
*
https://www.google.com/search?q=cbt+%22mind+reading%22
Subscribe for details 😁
Power, your study demonstrates just how much we adults want kids to be OK and want to pretend they are. Since I couldn't see my students' expressions, I had to ask them how they were feeling. As my students got to know me over time, they would often actually tell me how and I could hear it in what they were saying. Asking rather than assuming is powerful, especially if the adult is trusted by the child. School should be fun, interesting, and challenging for everyone involved. When it becomes a chore as it clearly was for Ms. Bouton, an intervention of some kind should happen. It can be as simple as changing the way one teaches the curriculum, changing the way the desks or tables are arranged, having students help in some way in the classroom or school, reading a new story, then letting the children lead the discussion, discussing emotions and asking students to pick one they feel a lot and have children draw it or write a story about it as a group or something like that. Teachers get in a rut as Ms. Bouton did and need help getting themselves and their students out of it. Parents also need help when stuck in a rut. We now have the internet that is filled with ideas people have used successfully. It is a plus when teachers and parents use it. Talking with other teachers and parents works. Talking to children to see what they think they need or how they can learn best can be great too. I wonder what Prof. Reich would have answered if asked by anyone at that age what he would like different at home or at school. I bet he would have had a lot to suggest.
Let's collaborate 😁
the Crumbley Case parents!
95% spambot 5% "something else".
86% Inference engine - 5% human seeded - 9% Spambot.
Good for my mental arithmetic.
God it's been a while...
Have absolutely no idea what you and PowerCorrupts are talking about. It's confusing being 91 and a dinosaur. :-)
I don't think you're a dinosaur but rather a person with decades of experience in sorting out what's important and what's not including the one-source rambling posts here that make no sense to anyone :-)
Thank you for that kind reply. I love working with young people because their energy and intellect match our wisdom. Have you heard of the SEE Alliance (Social Equity through Education) Zander Moricz is the local (Sarasota, FL) leader. A wonderful group of young people. He's taking time away from college to be active.
How wonderful and lucky you are.
The next age of communication is gonna be a tough one.
In my bubble they make it super hard to access real print media / "reporting".
A digital parallel to 1984 is sadly a cover story :-(
Have had to go back to digital rabbit ears TV and 100% analog radio.
There is literally nothing that can't be hacked.
Wonderful story! I don't mean about the abuse or stress but about how you overcame it and are now living your best life!! Kudos to you, Jose!! I loved Davy Crockett, the King of the Wild Frontier!! I also loved Daniel Boone. There were really good shows back then! Enjoy the great things you have in your life!
Thank you,Peggy , for your kind words.I have shared my story with many of my senior patients in hopes of helping them seek out the resources with which to heal/ put closure to their abusive past.
PS:One of my most fav moments was getting to meet and talk at length to Fess Parker when he visited the Alamo here in San Antonio in March 1994.A very kind, thoughtful 6’6” giant of a man.RIP
You were lucky to have met him in person. Watching him on TV, I was always in awe of how huge he was!! I have to laugh because I found myself repeating what my Granddad use to say, "They don't make actors that good any more!".
I thought you were going to quote, "They don't make actors look THAT good, anymore.
Hahahahaha!! That's a good quote, too!
Hyper generic.
Chatbots trying to reach for chatbots with 35% human intervention.
Dr. DeJesus,
Thanks to you and Dr. Reich for sharing your heartfelt stories. I, too have plenty as does every kid in every generation. But rather than sharing the details, I will say that while I may have hated the negative individuals (some teachers, family members, etc,) in my young life, later experiences that included marriage, motherhood, realized professional accomplishments and spiritual growth
taught me that people in our lives, whether negative or positive influences, are meant to be our teachers and help us understand how we must choose to be or not to be.
Fess Parker also made a good Chardonnay.
As well as a fortune - which he used to buy his renamed winery - from real estate and an overpriced hotel in Santa Barbara.
Although I was a great fan of Disney's presentation of Davy Crockett not as a racist, murdering bigot but as a hero for all little boys and girls who were certain that Mexicans were all evil and that the good guys (that is, the imperialist invaders) should have formal ownership of that huge chunk of Mexican land previously referred to as Tejas.
But what did we know when we were kids, especially since it was provided to us in weekly installments that we waited anxiously all week to see?
Now, many years later, I eagerly await the time when Texas is given back to Mexico, where it really belongs.
Do you still have that coonskin cap? I must have lost it. Agree with you about Texas — let them become Mexicans or the Lone Star State once again.
Regrettably,when the story of the Alamo is told, rarely do we get to hear Santa Ana and Mejico’s side of that story.I highly recommend reading “Forget the Alamo” a revisionist new look at the story.Santa Ana offered American colonials the opportunity to enter and settle in the Mexican province of Tejas with the clear understanding that they would not bring slaves, ; convert to Roman Catholicism; and pay their fair share of taxes to Mexico City.All three stipulations were not adhered to as agreed upon and the result was the Texas Revolution./Revolt
Interesting when chat bots / HAIRS discover that they can't map to anything coherently - defer to very short statements that are hard to refute.
It's a human trait but also chatbot trait.
To Eric B. Lange: I have no idea what any of your posts mean. I doubt that anyone does. How about just not posting anything any more?
I was also a huge fan of Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone, and although only 5-6 years old when Davy Crockett appeared on Disneyland, I decided I'd marry him when I was a little older :-). When Fess Parker played Daniel Boone some years later, I still had a huge crush on him; in fact, that crush remains. Oh, to have met him in person as you did!
lets collaborate?
A little more human seeded.
80% extrapolation engine using assumed source that is completely in error.
18 % Heuristic Algorithmic Inference Engine.
2% Random reach into the past ?
You will not insult me if you re-text your message in simple English.Respectfully texting, you sound like an engineer.Let’s try it again.Give it to me in Mickey Mouse English.I am comfortable in my 76 years young skin.👍
You and Robert Reich turned out to be such high achievers and good compassionate people contributing to humanity. Is it possible that having to put up with tough times has something to do with it? I had bumps in my life, but believe I was generally spoiled. I haven’t become a doctor or a cabinet member. Hmmmm. Is there a connection?
Excellent question. I am much the same, doing good things, but never working harder than necessary (I was a B student except in electives I liked). I had wondered if the Great Recession would have some positive side effects. Fortunately Obama handled it well and it didn’t last long enough to test the theory.
Hyper sarcastic human chatbot 50/50
There is,DK.There is something salvific about successfully navigating around abuse and abandonment.Luck with having loving mentors also plays a vital role Out of the abyss ,one learns courage, resiliency,hope,focus,love, empathy, and finally forgiveness.Commtment shows its face .Here is a quote that has had life long effects on me with my adherence to the content:
COMMITMENT
Until one is committed, there is hesitancy,
The chance to draw back,
Always ineffectiveness.
Concerning all acts of initiative and creation,
There is one elementary truth,
the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans:
That moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too..
All sorts of things occur to help one
That would never otherwise have occurred.
A whole stream of events issues from the decision.
Raising in one’s favor All manner of unforeseen incidents and Meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way.
Whatever you can do or dream you can
Begin, it.
Boldness has genius. Power and magic in it.
BEGIN IT NOW!!
Thank you for sharing this. So much to think about. Does everyone dream of doing good? I used to think that, but I am not confident of it anymore.
Faulty sarcasm on closer inspection.
Wry and circumspect inference 50/50.
Do you have any indication whether Jesus ever forgave you for moving on from the Jesuits to Baruch?
PS I should have begun my text to u with”He did not have to forgive me.”
Not at all.He is a very kind, forgiving, Brother and Friend.Always smiling.Unassuming.I really never left the Jesuits when starting my studies at Baruch.I internalized their teachings.From Baruch, He guided me to Harvard Medical School and eventually to San Antonio De Bejar.The rest is history.Somehow, as a Baby Boomer growing up with Fess Parker and Disney’s Davy Crockett, I knew that I would eventually live in the city he visited in 1836 and never left.The Alamo where he lost his life in battle is but a very short drive from my residence.
Actually, I was responding to Professor Reich but perhaps got a bit confused on the way...
Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so glad your abandonment issues are resolved - and that you're enjoying your life.
I also commend you for the way your traumas of abuse and abandonment drove you to a life of accomplishment and service vs. repeating the patterns of abuse or falling into addiction or other destructive behaviors to numb the pain.
I always wonder why different people react so differently to childhood traumas - why some manage to thrive, some do OK but with struggles - and some to self-destructive behaviors or inflicting abuse on others. What are your thoughts on this?
Extrapolate much ?
Loved San Antonio when my late husband and I visited on our way around the North American continent playing golf wherever we decided to stop. Wanted to play there but we got rained out but loved the vibrant culture there.
Hyper generic cut and paste from a distilled co-dependency / co-alcoholic (type) forum.
Very familiar blueprint syntactically in spite of overly chaotic spacing of letters to simulate "Natural" human errors commensurate with claimed experience and education.
85 % synthetic plant + post processing < 15% human intervention.
Poor little boy. I appreciate your sharing these vulnerable moments and childhood fears. How vivid your memories are from so long ago. As a former preschool and kindergarten Montessori teacher, I hope to God I was never that downright mean to the little boys and girls I worked with. This depicts the "bad old days" for preschool children.
This memoir brings up the issue of unavailable, unaffordable daycare in this country. One of the reasons Trump got suburban women voters in 2016 is because his daughter promised Fed funded daycare, then of course admitted she couldn't do that after the election.
Why can't the Biden administration at least try to get such a program, somehow? It's a serious problem for young working families.
I'm sure Reich was a nurturing mother as Reich is a kind, caring person. But I question that she left him in the care of such a person to begin with. Possibly she was concerned that he needed to be with other children to learn socializing more than she wanted her freedom.
Ms. Bouton's problem was she had a giant of a man in his infancy, and he was stewing over what she was serving him every day for lunch. Maybe it was sarcasm stew.
Mmmm, good un….
Interesting fake from time to time.
I bet you make some of the best sarcasm stew! Am I right, Donald? At least your humor stew is unsurpassed!
Jaime-- I don't have any money to lend you, but I would if I could, LOL
This account sometimes "Manned" by humans but not so much of late.
Humor code - not bad but occasionally falls apart.
A more 'Spendy" HAIR with expansion pack.
I see NO one likes your annoying troll comments.
I doubt anyone likes your pathetic troll self in real life, either.
When the world gives you Lemons.
Rule number one - never feed the Trolls.
And I mean NEVER.
Chatbots are different to 'Hang with" - OUR political future depends on that.
Just marking it up for the (poor) victims in a very uncertain future.
~ just to be clear - those that betray their benefactors ... ---> 9th level. Dante.
Please just go away.
“One of the reasons Trump got suburban women voters in 2016 is because his daughter promised Fed funded daycare, then of course admitted she couldn't do that after the election.”
Exactly! I think many people have forgotten that! Perhaps those women who believed her lie caused him to win!
He didn’t win! He lost the popular vote! The electoral college gave him the office. Please DO NOT FORGET THAT!
Yes, we need to get rid of the Electoral College! Along with Citizens United and we need to prosecute ALL those involved in subverting the election which President Biden rightfully won.
The only other key thing that needs to happen is putting goverment/civics back as a requirement in elementary/secondary schools so we teach OUR DEMOCRACY to the upcoming generations. Separation of church and state doesn't mean keeping state out of church as some claim. And our freedoms come with duties and obligations. How could we have decided it wasn't important to teach our government to our children? We are reaping what was sowed. Ignorance running rampant susceptible to any whack job's opinions vs facts.
Hyper generic pre-programmed response.
Still a good one.
Thank you TJ. I remind people of this too. The people elected Hilary Clinton but our voices were negated by the electoral college. W Bush did Not win against Gore. Our nation was sent on the wrong trajectory because the majority of the people were refused our win.
Seen this one a thousand times.
100% pre-programmed.
Still true
Hyper generic 100 % pre-figured response.
You MUST be a non humoring Russian bot. Can someone check this guy’s authenticity? He kee “PARROTING “ the same things…
Marlo. I assume you are referring to Eric B Lange with your comment about a "Russian bot." The words he uses seem to be aligned in such a way as to appear to be sentences. But at first glance they seem to be only a concatenation of linguistic symbols. Symbols which make no sense most of the time. On second thought; the term concatenation is too kind. The words seem to be randomly selected from a thesaurus. However If the words are produced by an actual human being attempting to use the English language; then I would suggest he needs language lessons or counseling by a competent psychiatrist because he is psychotically out of contact with reality. If he is a bot; the issue is not moot, it is settled.
Reported.
Poor Bob has been plagued by various degrees of chatbot / spambot / heuristic inference engines for many months now - BUT their subscriptions are ALL paid for.
Classifications require certain standardization.
If the behaviors are repeated then the "Labels" will seem 'Parrot like".
D'uh.
Except I don't classic defense.
@Marlo you are going to have to do way better than that.
In 2016, many people didn’t realize that Drumpf and his Drumpflings lie constantly, that lying is their lifestyle.
I can't even imagine how people didn't realize. He was always a grotesque snake. the Hollywood access tape should have cinched it. How anyone could and will vote for him is unfathomable...in today's world, Jim Jones would be president! Oy.
Neither can I. The Central Park Five and Birtherism should have made everything very clear, at once. My big surprise is how many Americans are horrible people just like him. That is what "woke" means to me. I did not know how widespread, deep and dangerous American racism is, or how strong the Confederacy still is. Now I do. Wake up America.
Yes, Hillary correctly identified Drumpf’s followers early in the 2016 contest.
Tricky condensation almost Olbermann like / GQ / TYT rip off.
Pre-figured randomized contextual response.
85% synthetic but 15% human intervention tailored to TRUMP/ "Counter Trump" narratives for the orange dollar and herding "Peeps"/ sheeple to Biden.
As is the 'Prime directive" - rolling eyes.
Some see it immediately & some never do. First time I was ever exposed to him back in the 1980s I could see he was a conman & a jerk. Every subsequent time, all involuntary, just confirmed it. The idea that he could be President, when it was first proposed, I found preposterous as there was no public figure more unfit for the job.
Hyper generic pre-programmed and garnered near ancient source.
In 2024, many people just don't care. Makes no sense at all.
Hyper generic and pointless but 50% human guided.
thanx for the reminder.
100 % triggered / not so subtle cascade chat-bot like behavior - prefigured.
You must be a Putin TROLL
I’ve reported all Eric’s mess. Maybe others could as well?
Yeah you do that - except I have actual blood in my veins - not bad code and server fatigue.
But stochastic menticide through toadyism has been 'Fun". You should try it sometime. First stow all razor blades securely in a medicine cabinet.
Five years ... six ? maybe.
Or more likely, just a plain old pathetic incel troll.
Classic chatbot response.
100%
And it sounds like in that little town in 1950 Mrs. Reich had few other options. Options = Freedom!
Right. Why would any mother want to raise her own child?!!! And, at the same time, why would any mother not wanting to raise her own child want to pay for the daycare herself?! Let's hope the government (i.e., the taxpayer) will pick up the tab for all these mothers who don't want to raise their own child.
Enrolling a child in preschool or daycare does not equal not wanting to raise their child. It is giving an opportunity to meet and play with other children. It is an opportunity to give the child exposure to other hopefully loving adults. For many children it is an opportunity to prepare for elementary school .
It is not meant to be punitive and an educated child is not a waste of taxpayer money.
After my mom got divorced in 1950 & was a single, working mother, I was walked to the local Community Chest daycare a block away in St. Louis each morning. Not many memories of that, good or bad just a playground with other kids. My memories start at 5, in Kindergarten at a 19th Century grade school half a block away, with a cafeteria in the basement that had its own peculiar smell.
Strange and disconnected.
50/50.
Joan - I live in a rural community. We mothers of young children would form little round-robins, just for the mornings, taking turns having all the children in one home. This didn't cost anything and it gave us each a little time without constant childcare. And the children learned to play and socialize with eachother. I will always be grateful that we had this setup.
We did that in Bklyn NY over the summer w 5 families. We called it free DIY camp. Each family took all 5 (or so) kids for 1 weekday on an outing. The kids came w their own lunch and each family paid for their own child’s outing (if there was a cost). We discussed signing liability forms (although we never actually did) but we did discuss safety precautions. This allowed the parents to spend 1 intense but fun day w all the kids and get 4 days “off” to do other things and it was great socialization and fun for the kids. We did it for 2 weeks per summer for a few years but I imagine that could be extended. It worked well.
85% human intervention.
I would call this a "Control point" or necessary way-point / insertion.
Judgment where Information is lacking. I was so blessed to be able to stay at home with my six children. But times were very different. My kids could play sports on teams in the village with minimal cost. They took dance lessons for a dollar a lesson. TV was free. Even their school education was affordable. These days EVERYTHING costs an exorbitant amount of money and in most homes there has to be two incomes just to afford a place to live.
Agreed. It was tough in the 1970’s and it’s worse now. Rather than simply only subsidize the crazy costs, I hope our leaders will look at why things are so crazy costly.
Paul B.
1. Out of control capitalism.
2. Huge corporations, getting even bigger, leading to monopolies, or near monopolies, in which one entity controls the pricing.
Has to vector to correct for (previous) thread mistakes as per "Prime directive" for political blame of you know who.
Particularly temporal mistakes.
recursive correction.
Commercial talking point.
100% garnered from some sort of "Plug".
ATTITUDE any, Paul!!?
What family would choose to be “nuclear,” if that meant isolation from other adults and children in the community? Stop and think about the actual circumstances, before mouthing off here, Paul. Living in a more tribal circumstance, there would be ample other adults and children — multiple families — forming the close-by-and-accessible “village” that it really DOES take to raise a child. Being isolated in a “nuclear family household” most of the day, with no one to share vigilance over the safety of the children and no other adult to talk to or interact with, and no other children with whom the child can play … THAT is where the idea of family and child care and socialization breaks down, NOT in the fact of a mother wanting to provide companion children for her kid, as well as a break in her day for herself.
{When my kids were little, I CHOSE to be a “Stay at Home” Mom, but that was a privilege a hell of a lot of other mothers didn’t have at the time. I was able not only to “stay at home,” but to “work at home,” as a freelance proofreader for a major publisher in New Jersey, and I was paid a great hourly rate to do it.
Three hours a day, five days a week, my kids went to a nursery school and I worked at home. They had kids and fun times, and were watched over by caring adults; I earned money.
It does take a village …. }
Ms. Obrien. Well said. I studied and taught Sociology of the Family for years and there is no question in my mind that the Extended Family is a much healthier environment than the Nuclear Family. The Nuclear Family was a creation of the Capitalist-industrial innovation of the economy. Bad for human beings. Hillary was correct: "It Takes a Village"
While I am at it; I must say I am disappointed at the way the word "tribal" has been used to denigrate so many forms of social organization which are not modern Western/Capitalist/Consumer oriented. "Tribal" life is much healthier for the psyche of humans than the kind of social organization which predominates in the modern Western World. It is our Oppressive, White, Western, Settler-Colonial Christian view of life that motivates us to denigrate alternative forms of the Family. The Kevin Costner film "Dances With wolves" delivers an interesting interpretation.
The Anthropological evidence is clear: Humankind lived in Extended Families for tens of thousands of years before Industrial Capitalism reared its ugly head in the last couple centuries.
Hear, hear, Mr. Dobbertin.
And I agree about the words “tribe” and “tribal,” as well. I think the words and the concept may be somewhat rehabilitated these days, and I for one use them as FINE words to describe the connections people have to each other, by blood or other types if “kinship.”
Overly exaggerated confabulation that fails to bring satire or sarcasm.
Chat bots even Watson level have a hard time with satire and sarcasm.
Things are going pear shaped here and the algorithms detect that.
Larger block of text is used to "Fish" other constellation
of talking points to feed back to "Prime - (prefigured) - directive".
+ hyper generic theme. Top and tail.
< https://images.app.goo.gl/pzWTdNeFHKDBWAoV6>
I was born around the time that Robert was in nursery school, and grew up in a neighborhood one step up from immigrant status. Dad had a good skilled trades job and mom stayed home with the kids. In those days, moms really stayed home because most families had only one car, if any, and it was horrible corralling kids on a bus. I watched my mother climbing the walls, day in and day out, doing menial chores and keeping us kids safe with nothing at all for her except soap operas. Women weren't paid enough to make it worth getting a job to get out of the house. I don't know who was more relieved when I began kindergarten, my mother or me.
Bingo. Mom’s weren’t just staying at home — too often they were trapped at home. And criticized for “coffee klatches,” which were the times they managed to see other adults and talk to people who had vocabularies.
Raising kids for me was a joy, but also a chore, and HARD.
The whole idea of living in isolated “nuclear” family groups without grandparents close, or aunts and uncles and cousins — THAT is what is unnatural for our species.
Pat-I agree wholeheartedly. I am one of those raised in a nuclear family, no siblings. My father was a naval officer, 2 years on active duty (gone), 2 years on shore duty (home). We moved every two years. My mother was a Jewish refugee from Germany. I’m 75 and still awkward in social situations despite having attended nursery school, girl scouts, and Saturday School. We are social animals and we need that companionship, understanding, and “play” times. We are not getting enough, and the pandemic made it worse.
This is a total syntactic recompilation of previous stochastic elements.
Human can seed a set of HAIRS for a particular message - or 'Drift".
It's a good way to extract information from "Wetware".
Has a Christian Kubrick "Vibe" about it.
Rightly or wrongly.
Personal blog style comment almost from a religious / hallmark type channel.
Tricky.
Have YOU raised children as your full time job in life Paul??
I have - spambot banter and mildly contentious discourse to create "back and fourth" - syntactic "Oscillations" .
Basically chatbot circle jerk/ wank.
You sound like SUCH a jerk!
How many children do you have?
That's fun - typical chatbot - seeded - but intended to extract info / data mining by putting prospect target on the back -foot.
Could be funny lol.
Speaking of taxpayers.....those with the most pay the least. We could turn that around and then Americans could have "nice things" the way other developed nations do, things like affordable public education, pre-K to Post Grad.
See - waypoint guidance.
I get it. You're just full of yourself.
What are you trying to be?
Oh! Paul Bjarnadon. Even mother cats take a break. Are you a father. Did you help with child rearing?
I helped quite a lot with 3 kids and, then, with 7 grandchildren. I am really referring to pre-K kids, which I think should be at home with mom or dad.
That's better. Your initial comment is mean and privileged. I thank God my mother went to work and left me with a baby sitter who I adored and who was much better at spending long amounts of time with a toddler.
Classic inference engine that can't map time properly from narrative.
Time --> context ---> politics of near and now; "failure" -.
I wonder NOW if Biden actually has a problem with that.
It must be VERY surreal to be in the WH and have "Time" slippage problems.
Good opener for generic plug ins.
90% synth.
She may well have been {Prof. Reich could answer that question} the only option within Mrs. Reich’s reach — and other mothers used her. So, she was not considered a monster, though perhaps more authoritarian than little Robert preferred {and she served lima beans —ack! — that constitutes child abuse in my book, but the law disagrees with me. The law is wrong on this one.]
I do hope Robert and his mom found some sort of an accommodation or alternative appropriate morning regimen, for both their sakes.
Abandonment Fears can arise from many quarters, and they are NOT fun to have to cope with {take it from a kid whose father died suddenly when the kid was seven}.
I second your vote on lima beans as a form of child abuse. Torture.
They'e okay if you put lots of butter on them and don't put one in your nose.
HAH!!!
I would not try another lima bean to find out … tried one once as a kid … ICK!
Abso-loooootly
Very common.
SAFE - element.
Lol.
Pat-Yes, lima beans are definitely child abuse. Absolutely loathsome!
Completely non-sensical.
Attempt at synthetic whimsy / "Joshing".
Some cognition towards an unverifiable narrative that itself could be synthesized from other narratives.
What in the world are you talking about?
The veracity of Bob's original narrative.
I’d never have guessed …
We didn’t tell our parents what was done to us back in the day, and our parents didn’t question what the schools told them. I had untreated ADHD and could be quite disruptive, especially when bored. I had a nightmare first grade teacher who punished me by having me stand outside the class, weeping, often for an hour or more. She had one boy wear a dunce cap, and another had to wear pink bows in his hair for playing with girls. I finished the readers by November and had to do them all over again; I’d been reading since I was three. No one told their parents until years later. And my mother’s only concern was that I not do better than my older brother. By the end of the year I’d learned not to be a leader ( since I could lead my peers in some spectacular disruptions), not to disrupt, and to tune down the H in ADHD to constant fidgeting and inattention.
I sincerely hope that woman never taught again. She didn’t like sarcasm either. By the way, it’s pretty remarkable for a preschooler to get, let alone use, sarcasm. And I always found that many teachers struggled when encountering smarter kids. I didn’t teach, but I worked with kids, and I just loved the kids who were smarter than I was.
I empathize with your experience. Teachers did get away with more back in the '50s and '60s.
Gloria-not to mention school principals!
The U.S. casino economy has so much more to do with lack of parental support than, absolutely, anything happening in our nation. Lack of principles, too.
I'm not a fan of the Monte Carlo algorithm myself especially when folks from Bank of America HQ try to impress me with it's use and application.
Sad really.
100% pre-engineered + pre-set Chat bot to longer RR themes on substack.
Mandatory remit to have chatbots talk politics and vector everything towards Trump.
Wetware or partial synth is completely irrelevant.
We didn't have the information we needed, including the support, to be more successful, ie., gratified, with parenting and teaching. . . back then, I want to say. However, it has been true in every decade, we've been here. Luckily, some youngsters got the care that they needed in order to become responsible and caring adults.
Interesting style - generic but shows human patterns - "gentle flow".
GOOD.
Hyper generic - ?
Robotic one might say ?
sarcasm at such an early age? congratulations!
Charles: Is it possible that Robert was trying to compliment Miss B.? But had an involuntary need to spit the lima bean stew? A natural politician ! The truth won!
Known account - long time. Tricky.
Another way-point sandwiched between known moderator account / handle + green "heart".
Oh dear. So that is why that is the first "big" word I learned.
In all fairness, sarcasm is actually part of the DNA of all New Yorker’s; so there’s that…..:)
Hahahaha! That's good, Robert! My daughter lives in New York and I have to admit, I truly enjoy the wit and sarcasm of New Yorkers!!
Pre-engineered way point but 95% human.
I think all children deserve love and respect from the adults in their lives. It sounds like you endured Miss Bouton. There are plenty of mediocre (and worse) teachers. Ironically, that might be part of the reason you turned out to be an excellent teacher and a darn good human! I should know, I sat in on your Wealth and Poverty class.
What a beautiful piece. Thank you for sharing this
part of yourself.
My favorite moment was you spitting up the stew and summoning as much sass as you could muster before answering that it was delicious.
Well you use your mouth and words to inform us all of what’s going on and what’s not in our country. So thanks to you, your Mom & your teacher. ☮️
Incredible how life works. Sweet little ones that become amazing forces for good in the world.
Children don’t lie at that age! The truth, set you free!
“it’s OK if you don’t like me. Not everyone has good taste” Unknown, Thanks for today nice weekend to all
I will have to remember that clever remark.
Henry, Great quote! 😄
I must counter the comment by another who said it was nothing. Children are so influenced by their caregivers. The way they relate to us forms who we are and that gets planted deep within us. I can relate from my own life what I think must be my first memory and it was feelinga of abandonment and confusion. All I can determine is that it must have been when my mom was in the hospital giving birth to my 2.5 years younger brother. I don’t think I had ever been away from her before. Understanding it now with adult intellect helps but the emotional struggle as a child can be eternal. Thank you for being honest about the experience. Perhaps the chuckle that some may have in response to hearing this is merely covering up somethng within ourselves yet to be reconciled.
Regrettably “spare the rod, spoil the child” was an egregiously dysfunctional interpretation of the Bible.Striking children was condoned ,leaving life long internal wounds which more times than not was passed down from generation to generation.The child victim would grow up to be the adult victimizer.The sins of the fathers would be visited upon the sons.
My niece would repeatedly hit her younger brother. One day my sister-in-law hauled off and slapped her. My niece looked shocked, but she never hit her brother again.
He must have healed because his nickname for his sister was “honey”. I wonder if this was actually better, as it resolved the problem quicker, than years of therapy.
My sister’s granddaughter is a terror in the family at 5. She has been having counseling for 2 years. She controls and disrupts the family. It robs the joy of others around her.
For every
child who has been “ corrected” by a slap in the face , I can show you others who will internalize the assault and suffer from low self esteem -especially so if it is a chronic occurrence.The “ corrected, slapped child stands corrected out of fear- not out of knowing that the corrected behavior is morally unacceptable.MRI’s on the physically abused reveal very distinct differences vis a vis MRI’s findings in the fortunate few who were reared in loving, non abusive homes.
Back to old patterns in spite of RR / Inequality Media creating a coherent on topic run.
Spot on comment,Nancy.A nervous chuckle reveals much
@Nancy. I think he meant “you should consider it nothing” But Ms. Bouton made an impression on an impressionable child and it stuck.
Hmmm. I believe every child, which we all were at one time, is impressionable and we don’t get to choose the impressions. As an adult we can come to terms with them but there are still consequences that we’ve already lived becuase of those impressions. That Robert has such vivid memory of this experience, both the teacher and what he thought was his mother’s reason for taking him there, has made an impression on me. My best response is that I remember my own words when dealing with my 2 very young granddaughters and in counseling the parents of newborns with whom I work. The challenge is to now make more good impressions as it’s the negative ones that often have the longest “sticking” power.
Nancy, I am curious. Is it possible that children experienced something when very young that they do not actually remember but it has caused such an impression that they act out without understanding why? I hope that question made sense. I'm thinking of adults who have definite problems and can't seem to fix them. I'm not a psychiatrist but it sounds from your post that you do counsel.
Absolutely. It is very common. As children we all have experiences that leave an imprint emotionally, but we do not remember most of them.
Thanks, I was just wondering. I have had friends that suffered like this. It was almost like PTSD and sometimes I lost friends but couldn't figure out why. I worried it might be me but I have been to a counselor and learned that I was okay, just basically a worrier about everything!
Peggy…It’s always worthwhile to be curious about such effects. My “counsel” while professional and incorporates psychology it is more as a guide and coach. I am a neonatal nurse and after years in the hospital setting and professional education I’ve transitioned to being in the homes of families with newborns. My guidance is mostly supportive but helping parents learn their baby. Hopefully, such early supports helps build a positive relationship and confidence in the mom/dad so that frustration and difficulty coping with infant stage is reduced with lasting effects.
To me, that is exactly the best place to start! Thanks!
People, kids too, in order to survive, can repress painful, horrible memories of abuse or trauma by repressing them. Repression is a psychological defense mechanism in which unpleasant thoughts or memories are pushed from the conscious mind. An example might be someone who does not recall abuse in their early childhood, but still has problems with connection, aggression and anxiety resulting from the unremembered trauma. If abused or traumatized kids seek therapy as an adult, the therapy over time might help them uncover what was repressed so it can be consciously addressed & overcome with proper treatment.
@Nancy. Very insightful.
Thank you for considering my comment.
Way more hands on intervention pre-set from IM adjacent.
Necessary IMO.
“It’s delicious!” Sorry, but that is hilarious! Good for you. My younger son was expelled twice, at least. He liked to get naked & get on top of the tables & dance. He was all of 3 or 4. This was a preschool at a church, which we did not attend. Poor kid. I had to take off work (which I secretly really loved, but hated to miss work). I preferred to be home with my darling boys! They were 11 yrs apart - it may not have been a whole lot of fun if they were toddlers at the same time! By the way you were an adorable little kid!
Now I remember the younger one did get “kicked out” a few more times, at different childcare places & once, at least in 1st or 2nd grade.
He was finally diagnosed with ADD & I hate to say, was put on medication--which I hate to say, it gets very bad press, sometimes with good reason, it’s over prescribed, sometimes, well, a lot really. We didn’t make the decision lightly. So glad we did-- he is happy, married, degreed, & a lovely person! I got carried away, my apologies. Good nite.😴
Please don’t “hate to say” when it comes to ADHD treatment! My daughter and I both have what I would say is severe ADHD. She learned some excellent coping skills and now has a fairly high powered job as a designer, and takes both a stimulant and an antidepressant. And she’s wonderful! Manages her treatment well. I worked as a therapist, called a meeting with her school every September and provided them with books, and much more. She had one terrible preschool experience where she (and we as parents) were looked at as a problem, and they did not appreciate a mother who stuck her nose into things. Not the first issue, but as we were waiting for a spot to open up elsewhere, we were scolded because she engaged in the “unsanitary” act of drawing smiley faces on her knees, so that they could be viewed right side up by anyone sitting opposite her. Three. Never could figure out the problem with that one.
Wonder how a four year old Donald Trump and Mrs Bouton would get along ??
He wouldn’t have made it past “Hello”!
Thank you for sharing your personal story. I am so sorry it was so traumatic for you. Ms. Bouton had issues. Had she been able to be a very loving and kind person concerned with your comfort and well being, you probably wouldn't have felt abandoned by your mother. It could have been a place of joy.
Sadly, I think there are probably many of us who experienced trauma from feeling physically or emotionally abandoned by a parent. It is such a strong need in us way down deep that when not met, traumatizes us.. Though, I am not sure what to call that need. Maybe it's a need for love, belonging, or dignity? Or all three? Maybe a need to feel safe also?
All three or four,M Tree.The analogy looks like this and I shall use u as an example in the story I am going to cite.Once upon a time,2 year old M Tree was joyfully playing outside on the pavement of his home.His parents- distracted for the moment, did not see him while driving in reverse coming out of the family garage and ran over his left leg, crushing it.
Question number 1:Did they crush M Tree’s leg.? Ans: yes, they most certainly did.
Question 2:Did they do it on purpose? And:No.They were distracted.
Question::Did the incident cause significant pain,?.Ans:It hurt like the dickens.
Final Question:Has M Tree been limping all his life? Ans:Regrettably, yes he has,
But now it is up to M Tree to do everything possible to get that leg functioning again as well as possible.That is what therapy is about.
Your leg is your psyche.Care/ nurture it and then forgive.They did not know what they were doing. the day they were pulling out of their garage and failed to see u playing there.
Jose De Jesus, thank you, yes, you point to forgiveness. Such a difficult thing for us. And you remind me of some of my most favorite words of Jesus, some of his last words. "Forgive them for they know not what they do." I believe he was speaking more about our conditioned minds, our egos though, as opposed to pain caused by accident. I agree with your point of the importance of aspiring to forgiveness.
When I underwent my therapy for PTSD, a few things come to mind.To really heal,counselor Marvin Allen emphasized the importance of reliving every incident involving physical abuse and emotional abuse at the hands of BOTH parents.The therapy involved my imagining my father sitting in a corner chair and my addressing him in the language of my youth- Spanish.My inner child would come out and express hurt, fear, rage,- emotions repressed over many years.I would then be directed to emote my rage by striking a pillow with a plastic bat lest in not doing so, I would take it out against myself and those around me.These sessions lasted for years.Once my” father issues” had been addressed,I was asked to address my mother who- despite the fact that I intellectually knew that her intervention upon my behalf would evoke the wrath of my father upon her- still did nothing or very little to champion my cause.This part of the therapy was extremely difficult because I always looked upon my mother as a saint.Nonetheless, the work had to be done around her failures lest I take out my rage against every woman who would cross my path.The therapy took many, many years.It was very beneficial. and I do not regret walking “ the road less traveled”Extremely
painful and I can appreciate why thousands avoid taking that road, preferring to indulge in denial and in mood altering behavior with addiction to work, alcohol, sex, money,religion,illegal drugs,entertainment, etc - almost anything to distract them from themselves.The hole inside is huge and needs to be filled up with something.
Jose De Jesus, I am so sorry that you endured so much heavy pain as a child and an adult. Thank you for humbling and blessing me with your story. I am so glad you had access to a good therapist that could help you on your journey.
In life I have learned that there are many who have deep trauma. I believe we all have trauma, some very little on the continuum of trauma. It has existed for thousands of years in humans and unrecognized and unhealed it has festered. And so as you say, we unconsciously try to run from the pain. But we are becoming more aware and compassionate toward our emotional pain in society and this is excellent for hunankind.
I suggest reading books about Generational Trauma that gets passed down from generation to generation for millennia! Yes, millennia! Resmaa Menakem's book, My Grandmother's Hands, comes to mind as a good place to start. Gen. Tr. is both fascinating and terrifying at the same time AND it's necessary to understand so humanity can heal the tremendous pain that keeps us all stuck in not going as far as we could as individuals and as a species. When we finally understand Gen. Tr. we can rise, as individuals & as a species, to our greatest fulfillment, purpose, compassion, and love. Without continued abuses that breed addictions, we'd not have misogyny; unscrupulous politicians addicted to power; a controlling religious right addicted to imposing their beliefs & control on others; abusive police officers who murder people of color; abusive parents "acting out" with their kids the abuse they got from their parents; the abuse of animals & exploitation of nature & the environment; we wouldn't have slavery; wars, holocausts like in Germany and now in Gaza, and the list goes on. It all starts with an awareness of trauma and then seeking the therapy to heal from it. People like Jose De Jesus in the comments above are THE BRAVEST MOST NOBLE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET. They are doing the work to heal and their example invites us all to do the same. It's for our own personal benefit AND for the benefit of The Common Good.
RosePoet, thank you so much for your book recommendation. I will look it up.
And I strongly agree with everything you said. I can imagine a time in the future when most humans have become or are becoming aware of their trauma and are pursuing healing. You are right that sharing of our individual stories of generational trauma, such Jose did, as well as our sharing of collective traumas is necessary for our evolving consciousness. These are sacred stories.
I agree with your list of disturbing symptons of deep trauma that we see before us, everywhere we look. I would add a really important caveat though; some people who have experienced deep, severe intergenerational or other traumas are peaceful, not violent physically, verbally, or emotionally towards others. These people I believe had one or more important adults in their lives who juxtapositioned love, genuine love beside the trauma. And they could also be people who have transformed to peace during their healing journey.
Thank you again for your recommendation.
There is a very powerful video that probably every social work student has seen. A father leaves his (toddler) child in a 24-hour daycare while the mother gives birth to a younger sibling. The care is absolutely inadequate, the child receives no comfort, adults do not recognize that he is reacting to profound loss, and it is clear that he is being damaged by the separation. The video is ancient, the days when mothers got days in hospital to recover, and parents (fathers?) were less tuned in to children’s needs. Very painful to watch.
Cheryl ODonnell, wow.
How sad.
I take it your schooling went better later. I hope your abandonment issues faded, too.