I’ve known Senator Dianne Feinstein for many years. It’s time for her to step down. I say this with great sadness — as one of her friends, one of her admirers, one of her constituents, and as someone who cares (as I’m sure she does) about the future of America.
The Senate is not a damn country club; Feinstein is not entitled to this absence! If she cannot do her job, she must do the honorable act of stepping down. Her legacy? NO! We need a functioning judiciary!!!
Shingles can be prevented with the Shingrix vaccine. It is well known, unless you have dementia and don’t opt to get the vaccine to protect yourself. If you can’t even make this logical decision, which is in your best interest, how can you make crucial decisions that will ultimately affect our entire country?
I highly respected Senator Feinstein but she has a duty to the American people that is not being attended to. She needs to be asked to resign now for the sake of our democracy.
Marlo- According to the CDC, the Shingrix vaccine is more than 90% effective, and provides "immunity stays strong for at least the first 7 years after vaccination."
Perhaps she was negligent, but I am unaware of her vaccine status. I would take your point even further; if the issue were that she was struck by lightening (through no fault of her own), she still should resign because her selfish vanity is petty compared to the damage she is doing to the country. RBG similarly chose selfishly, and it cost all of us. What galls me are the enablers like Gillibrand (For whom I voted, by the way), who support her "right" to leave when she chooses, as if she has earned the "right" to allow horrific consequences for the rest of us while she recovers. This is a perverse perspective.
Yes, RBG tarnished her legacy by not putting the country ahead of her misguided ego (or something!), and the country will suffer for her selfishness for many decades, perhaps longer than her legacy. Sad ending to an amazing career.
There is a time to recognize when the baton should be past. RBG refused to recognize this. However, given what Moscow Mitch did with Garland's nomination, there is no way to know if he would have stolen the seat RBG held. I don't think the founders ever envisioned a situation like McConnell created upon the death of Scalia.
Moscow Mitch DID steal the seat RBG had on SCOTUS by ramming through Barrett right at election time though he said that couldn't be done by Dems several months before an election. I wish more people would challenge GQP hypocrisy.
Even though I’m not a great believer, certainly an act of Providence was Scalia’s departure. we could certainly use a few more of those situation’s. Call them timely/untimely deaths. sorry about the morbidity, but I’m tired of this crap.
Let’s walk this back a bit - yes, RGB could have retired during Obama’s tenure, allowing him to select her replacement and assuming Mitch didn’t interfere. But as a female Justice, I am guessing she, like so many of us, thought that Hillary Clinton would be the next and first female President and perhaps wanted to have her select her replacement. There is no way should could have known trump would take that away from all of us. And she hung on as long as she could physically. Can we stop Monday morning quarterbacking RBG? The villain is all this SCOTUS mess is the evil and aged Mitch McConnell. I pray for karma.
Although I respect your point of view, I agree with JennSH on RBG and Feinstein. It may be that RBG thought HRC would be the next President, but to think is different than to know for sure. Obama was a Democratic President who would pick a progressive Justice who protected people's rights, possibly the same Justice HRC would have chosen. Had RBG stepped down earlier, when the numbers worked to seat someone more progressive to SCOTUS without opposition games, progressive Justices aren't outnumbered by Opus Dei subscribers on the highest court. In addition to the Republicans inventing new obstructionist policies out of whole cloth to get their way, they make sure to use numerical advantage whenever they have it. Democrats often don't. They usually fail to move with urgency in matters like these, depend too much on hopeful polling projections and keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
It is fine to be optimistic but pragmatism, when the legislature is so thinly sliced from term to term, is absolutely necessary. Senator Feinstein, for whatever reasons motivate her, resists stepping down to allow Governor Newsom to name another suitable Democrat to fill the role and get progressive judges installed in the court pipeline. They are needed to counterbalance the many lunatic idealogues, like Judge Kacsmaryk of NDTX, already stuffed into the Federal judiciary when Republicans had their chance. She plans not to run in 2024 but suppose her seat going to another Democrat isn't a given? No one forecast a thrice divorced, four-time bankrupt property developer and classless reality star winning the Republican nomination and then the Presidency in 2020. No one expected Coakley to lose to Brown for the Kennedy seat in MA either. There could just as surprisingly be a some dark horse waiting in CA. Democrats and the nation itself cannot afford to take that chance.
All excellent points but then I believe she would have had to resign in Obama’s first term when the Dems still had the Senate. We had just elected the first Black man to the Presidency. We had passed the Affordable Care Act. We had dug out of the recession caused by Wall Street greed. Things looked pretty good. To really analyze this we would have to also review what cases were before the court. Perhaps this lesson from the RBG situation is the one that Feinstein needs to learn.
In my opinion, RBG had so many and serious health issues, that she was covered by Federal Health care. If she had retired, it would have cost her tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in premiums and copays
There is a part of me that really wants to let this comment pass but the other part of me just can’t do it. Are you seriously suggesting the RBG wasn’t retiring because she didn’t want to pay health insurance and copays? Have you read anything about the person she was? And this article from 2012 basically says that federal employees heath insurance is basically equivalent to the good benefits offered by large corporations who are able to negotiate coverage and fees due to the numbers of people enrolled.
Everybody’s worried about their legacy. why did these people care they’ll be dead. There’s an old saying,” when you’re dead, you’re a dead pecker head”.
Yes, good point. Franken didn't get an investigation nor a hearing. The Dems only had 47 during Doug Jones' term and then Alabama sent Tuberville, who couldn't name the 3 branches of governmen. And now, Franken is not in the Senate Judiciary committee.
Oh wow, I was SO UPSET when he did that! They were ready to have an a hearing. The accusation was so flimsy, I thought he had a good chance of being exonerated but he decided to leave. The Democratic Party treated him terribly.
The image the incident was based upon was clearly photoshopped. The focus and light source were different in the image of Franken and the background image.
Pressured into it by the holier than thou caucus in the Democratic party. They are willing to lose control of the senate and house to the fasscists because of some peccadillo on the part of a member, whereas Republicans gave Senator Vitter, a standing ovation after he was investigated for frequenting the DC Madam, and SC elects adulterers, rapists, perjurers, racists to office without embarrassment.
Too much influence by the political correct Gen Z and Millienals, to the total detriment of Democracy.
Franken resigned under pressure by his own Democratic Party. Now he regrets it. Furthermore, “ Now, seven of the 36 Democrats who demanded he resign say they regret it.” ~ BBC
Women who are sexually assaulted never (close to never) get a hearing or investigation. Franken is one man who indulged in some creepy behavior and was one of the rare indulgers who was caught. Things don't seem to get cleaned up evenly. Occasionally, rarely, when a man has done what so many have done, one gets caught here and there. I am not sorry that Franken was exposed and disappeared. And it is creepy to see him creeping his way right back into the public eye as if nothing happened. Gillibrand is a reliable Feminist who seizes every opportunity to even the playing field which is still a very slippery slope. Dianne Feinstein's demise has been confusing, and hadn't been as clear as it has become as we lose more time to confirm nominees. I am sorry to see anyone accusing Gillibrand of anything other than standing up for women.
Franken was fabulous! I miss having him in the Senate. His actions were misunderstood and taken out of context. I normally like Gillibrand, but she was wrong to demonize Franken.
The Franken incident was completely overblown. Now we're missing a good senator and communicator. Face palm! Sometimes Dems get in their own way. I've never been a Gillibrand fan because she seems self-serving in the extreme.
Progressives and Democrats suffer from a debilitating disease that's ill-fitted to politics: a conscience. Republicans are immune to their own hypocrisy, while we stand around in circular firing squads seeking moral purity, our biggest fault that we assume the GOP will play by the rules. Which they haven't done since Ike.
Gillibrand evens the playing field to the detriment of her party and democracy, Because of the Jihad mentality, Republicans, the party of fascism, has taken virtual control of the government, while (at present) they can't pass laws, they can put a strangle hold, like threatening a default on the nations credit, causing fear world wide, and a possible world wide depression, not to Mennonite the international community abandoning the dollar for the Yuan, and some have already done so.
For me, the distinction between Senator Feinstein and Justice Ginsburg is that the former is cognitively impaired and the latter was still very sharp. I suspect she was waiting for Hillary Clinton to appoint her replacement, but we all know how that worked out.
My opinon is that she held out for pecuniary reasons. He had the most excellent health care while in office,including priority treatment at Walter Reed.
She would have had to pay more if she retired, and not have access to Walter Reed.
I don't understand why people are against a bill forcing people to retire at say 70. Maybe someone can explain the rationale behind that position. Most people I know are happy to retire.
I don't think so. A lot of people are dead before 65. Most of my high school friends died before 2000. Nothing in life is fair, but I still believe in imposing a forced retirement age for the obvious reasons, especially because our children and grandchildren have probably had more than enough of our rules and regulations. We should be decent enough to pass the country on to them.
I agree- make room for younger generations with fresh ideas. The elders can be advisors to the young. A multigenerational congress would better reflect the country.
Due to increased longevity and health in later years and in some cases labor shortages the age of full retirement and pensioning is under pressure to increase. Setting that arbitrary limit on public service contradicts the other efforts
I understand that. I highly disagree with it. We've had age limits on most everything for as long as I've been alive and this should not be an exception. I have to have my eyes examined every year to keep driving starting three years ago. There are other age restrictions on things. If 70 is too young, then make it some other age. I don't really think the country's decisions should be made by old folks even though I'm one. It's really no longer going to be their country. I'm all in for age limits.
There is an income reduction after retirement, . Medicare is not free, currently it costs $194.90 a month deducted from Social Security or if you retired under a SS replacement plan, from you checking account. If you have a mortgage, a car loan, or cosigned a grandchild's student loan, you have to keep working.
Most folk don't have a personal retirement plan, simply because they couldn't afford one during their working years.
Lucky are those that are in good enough health to work after 65 much less 70.
The Supreme Court is 6 to 3 so Bader Ginsburg would’ve only made it 5 to 4. i’m pretty sure that majority rules. Except in presidential elections. Yeah I know that doesn’t make any sense. But what the hell doesn’t this country?
Yes, 5 conservatives on the court would still be a majority, but occasionally one will stray. As it is now, it is rare for 2 of the 6 to vote in any way which doesn't preserve power for rich people and taking away rights and protections of vulnerable people.
Agree. "Selfish vanity" describes neither the justice nor the senator. These are archaic terms formerly used to put women in their place—guilt-ridden shame. If Feinstein is cognitively muddled, this is not selfish vanity. If Ginsburg was optimistic, this was not selfish vanity. Who first used that term in this discussion, anyway? The term "selfish vanity" should be retired with the rest of the mid-20th Century. Sen. Diane Feinstein should be offered a letter of resignation to sign, by someone who deeply respects and loves her.
Geezus, why do people personalize such stuff. Vanity and ego are applicable to men. for instance Mitch McConnell, Biden and half or more of the Congress.
There is a portion of the population that personalizes everything and reflexively become defensive, from gun owners, religious to render, race and LGBT.
And all they are doing is giving the enemies of democracy, the fascists, ammunition resupply.
Let's stick with valid complaints and remedies, not crap that offends someones easily wounded sensibilities.
Your original comment prompted my reply which is lost somewhere in the thread because I am inept with this form of communication. You accused the Senator of selfish vanity, made some other derogatory, speculative comments and then took aim at the late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg which prompted me to reply. Your misogyny is repellant.
Now that you have clarified, your assumptions are presumptuous and narrow-minded. I did not make this about their gender, you did. I have no issue with their gender, nor did I write anything of the sort; my comments are about their choices to remain in power at the expense of the rest of us.
Actually, for someone of Senator Feinstein's age, shingles does take a long time to resolve. My mother had shingles in her late 80's. She was miserable and in pain for months. After the rash went away, the nerve pain remained. My now 86 yr. old aunt had shingles several years ago. That case greatly increased her frailty because the pain lingered for months. For the elderly, shingles is no joke. Sadly, this situation has likely rendered the senator disabled. She should resign NOW!
The Shingrix vaccine has been available for at least 6 years and I don't know why your family didn't take advantage or that smart optioin. Could you tell us?
Shingrix has nasty side effects- most notably Guillian Barre syndrome. Some people don’t want to gamble with paralysis. My PCP has advised me to not get it- which means at least 1 of her patients was harmed by taking it.
Celeste K: It depends on how severe a case one has. Complications can include pneumonia and even encephalitis. Nonetheless, she should resign. No argument.
Some people who have had shingles do have a lingering problem with nerve pain which is often described as excruciating. I recall reading some years back that "post-herpetic nerve pain" that followed the active outbreak of shingles, when it did not go away, often drove sufferers to suicide, it was so relentlessly painful. Here is something from Mayo Clinic:
Postherpetic neuralgia - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic
Feb 10, 2023 It causes a burning pain in nerves and skin. The pain lasts long after the rash and blisters of shingles go away. The risk of postherpetic neuralgia rises with age. It mainly affects people older than 60. There's no cure, but treatments can ease symptoms. For most people, postherpetic neuralgia gets better over time.
I stand corrected regarding the length of time that shingles effects a person. I have never had the experience of following any of my patients for the long term after the initial recovery of the contagious rash and blisters. It makes sense that Ms. Feinstein is still feeling the effects of this disease.
It makes it clear, however, that she is not able to return to the Senate to perform her duties. It is important that she step down and allow another to continue in her place.
That being the case it is all about the money. An a member of congress gets full service and access to the best medical care available. When retired both are reduced and the burden falls on the family.
Mario and Joseph Lawson: According to one of the official gov med sites:
"Who should not receive zoster vaccine? Zoster vaccine should not be given to people who are immunocompromised, pregnant women, or those who have previously had anaphylaxis to the vaccine (either Zostavax or varicella vaccine) or its components (including gelatin or neomycin)."
Not to be presumptuous, but I think we can assume the Senator is not pregnant. We have no knowledge re: her personal medical history, so whether or not she should have been vaccinated (and who knows -- maybe she was and for some reason it didn't take) is totally beside the point.
She should resign for the good of the country -- like yesterday!!
Also immuno compromised and I am in remission from cancer, and had pneumonia after my 1st treatment of Keytruda in 2017. And am allergic to the neo in neosporin
and the neo in neomycin which is a component of Shingrix, but I also carry my Epipen (bee sting allergy)
William: Sounds like you're a real survivor with all your wits intact. Guess Shingrix wouldn't be the vaxx of choice in your situation, so good luck against shingles and any 'neos' lurking out there. Some people have all the luck. 🙀🙃 At least you're not pregnant.
Agree. I was just thinking since it is well known she has dementia, perhaps she either wasn’t aware of it or felt the updated Shingrix vaccine wasn’t warranted if she already had the old vaccine.
“Shingrix is more than 90% effective at PREVENTING shingles and PHN. Immunity stays strong for at least the first 7 years after vaccination.” From CDC.gov
Perhaps your friend only received the old shingles vaccine which only was 51% effective in preventing shingles. Many are under the incorrect assumption that they don’t need the newer Shingrix vaccine because they were already vaccinated. This is a terrible assumption due to Shingrix being much more successful (90%) in the prevention of this painful, blistering disease. It is perfectly fine and recommended to get this additional vaccine. I did.
As someone who had both shots of the Shingrix vaccine just two years ago, and is currently afflicted with a case of internal shingles, I understood that the vaccine only reduces your chances for shingles and PHN (post shingles nerve pain) but does not eliminate the possibility you will get it. For those that do get Shingles despite getting the Shingrix vaccination, the vaccine is known to reduce the severity and duration of the it. Speaking from first-hand experience as a relatively young and healthy (not immuno-compromised) person vaccinated with Shingrix, the pain from internal shingles is intense, I can't imagine what the pain is like without the vaccine.
Isn't the question of why she hadn't been vaccinated with Shingrix (or had allowed her immunity to lapse) a question for her doctor? Unless more information is forthcoming, the rest is speculation - and probably a bit unfair as such...
With all due respect for your point about Shingrix shingles vaccine, the broader political point is not about that vaccine, its efficacy, Diane Feinstein's vaccination status or the severity of her shingles outbreak. The political point is her protracted absence from her duties as a Senator and the effect of her absence from the Judiciary Committee on judicial appointments.
Mitch McConnell whose craven list of "Things To Do" has two major things on it:
Get right-wing, Federalist Society, regressive judges appointed while blocking any and all Democratic nominated or approved judges;
Block everything and everybody proposed by Democrats.
Mitch fancies himself President because he controls the country without ever having to actually run for that office, knowing he had no chance ever to be elected outside of Kentucky. Kentucky should never have elected him because he has little to no interest, concern or connection to Kentucky, but that state has inflicted Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul and Thomas Massie on all of America. Mitch's ego has a different character to Diane Feinstein's; he got himself out of the hospital, out of rehab ( ALL AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE, NO DOUBT!!!) and back in the Senate to take up his poison mantle of undermining America's progress and decency. He is a duplicitous, dishonest, manipulative operator, but a cunning one all the same. He got himself back in the Senate and back to his version of "work."
Diane Feinstein may harbor some belief that she can and will come back and be able to do the work, but her declining health has been apparent, even before the revelation of her having shingles. She has been absent since January, I think, and it is not a job where "co-workers" can take up the slack. She has been absent too long already and needs to resign.
Charles "Chuck" Grassley is another one who should not have run again, should have retired (long ago!) but he is very, very full of his own sense of importance and so America suffers for his selfishness.
Professor/Secretary Reich called it a "gerontracy" and it does have that appearance. It might be more acceptable if those old ones were wise sages, great fonts of wisdom, with minds and mouths still vibrant and enlightening, but they are not.
And note to Professor/Secretary Reich: you certainly don't need to be told this, but I'll say it anyway: it was the vile, despicable Strom Thurmond who was a very, very small imitation of a man - his disgusting dyed-red hair, his nonsensical (and worse) verbiage, his outrageous hypocrisy, his lifetime of cruelty that some wanted to exonerate towards the end of his life..... No, sir, he would never measure up to a good man.
I also think it’s a pretty big leap to assume she didn’t get the vaccine. Unless you know her personally or she has made a public statement to the contrary.
It’s like birth control; you can still get pregnant, but unlikely.
Unless you only received the older shingles vaccine, Zostavax which was only 51% effective. (You can still get the Shingrix vaccine which is 90% effective in the prevention of shingles).
I don’t know her health status, other than she’s 89. It’s safe to assume there’s some compromised immunity at that age that also might impact ones’ decision to receive any vaccine. Only her doctor can advise her on that. The ‘I got it, so everyone else can’ is not sound medical advice, sorry.
So was COVID a debilitating illness and there were those who were advised to not take the vaccine(s). By the CDC., for Pete’s sake. I’d bet there’d be a disclaimer on the website about consulting ones’ own health care provider. But hey, why bother, when they can just ask you?
Shingrix has neomycin as a component. I am allergic to the neo as in neosporin (I use polysporing as a replacement) also allergic to bee stings so carry an Epipen. Any thoughts as to what Shingrix will do, I would rather use my Epipen than have shingles. I had a shingles shot back in 2009 (I think, just a guess, can't remember the date)
I got Zostavax and later had an itchy rash on my chest that was worse than the miliaria that I often got in summer. When I noticed the whelps in lines like with herpes & went to the Dr. it was treated with an anti-viral med. Other than itchy discomfort it wasn't as devastating as what ppl describe as Shingles. So the vaccine probably helped a bit.
Zostervax was the old vaccine. Shingrix is much more effective including for people over 70. I was a medical social worker and geriatric care mgr.
Once you've seen the suffering of shingles victims you know you never want to go through that experience and you pay attention for available vaccines. I had them both and it is highly recommended that you go for Shingrix despite having had the less effective Zostervax.
Sorry to disillusion you, but you can still get shingles after receiving the vaccine. I know a gentleman who is vaccinated and still got shingles. It might be rare, but it does happen.
My mom had shingles at age 90. They gave her medication and it was gone quickly so though i know each person has different issues, there should be legislation that doesn’t allow unending service on these committees. I mean a Nevada county voted for a Republican dead pimp and Republicans were able to replace the person after the election was over. How is this different? She should at least be able to appoint someone for the duration of her term?
Agree, but what if she is incapable of resigning due to health reasons, such as dementia or she's in a coma? If a member of Congress becomes incapacitated, there is no legal avenue to replace that person. This is a larger issue that needs to be addressed!
I think a Constitutional Amendment is needed in the long term to address this concern. In the short term, I think we are stuck if she is incapable of resigning. It takes a 2/3rds vote in the Senate to expel her, so the Republicans can block this, and she hasn't done anything to justify expulsion under present Senate rules.
I just read & posted the link to where she’s on her way back now. I am really hoping that she is coming back to bow out gracefully and allow a path forward, immediately. No one can condemn her legacy. But her legacy does not need to end in a manner that’s not within her control so while she still has it, I hope she uses it!
Nancy Pelosi's position on Feinstein, James Clyburn's shady role in keeping his seat safe and the rest of SC unsafe for other black candidates (per ProPublica), and Diane Feinstein's de facto sovereignty are compelling arguments for an age cut-off in congress. Biden's "Where's Jackie?" moment removed any doubt he should decline to run again. (Yes, I'd have been involuntarily retired years ago myself.) The U.S. desperately needs for leaders now in their prime but denied top positions to be unleashed.
That happened a few months ago. I dearly wish that if Biden is unwilling to step aside he'd at least give Kamala a plum face-saving appointment and add a vp with substantial credentials, foreign and domestic. I have nothing against K., other than thinking she's a loser nationally. Now Joe has named as his campaign manager the manager of K.'s failed presidential campaign. I never did, never will understand him.
I was a supporter of Harris before she dropped out (early) from her campaign for President. I believe that it was her sister who managed her campaign? Or perhaps Maya was just by Kamala's side each inch of the way. Insane if he's using her person for this coming election! What happened to his own campaign manager from 2020?! Your suggestion is brilliant: since Kamala appears to be a drag on Biden's presidency, give her a fabulous appointment in his next term, and have someone else who's considered a "WINNER" in Dem circles run as his VP. Now, the question is: how will this be explained during the campaign? People will jump all over him from every direction -- you're dumping a woman! you're dumping a Black person! etc., etc. Your thoughts?
Even though this situation affects all of America, I believe Californian’s should petition their Senator to step down for the betterment of the Nation.
This situation illustrates the need for a maximum age for office. You have to be a minimum age to run. I think you need a maximum age to continue in office. This is not coming from a spring chicken either. I am 69 and still working for company with no forced retirement, but I am not involved in running the country.
"Sen. Dianne Feinstein is flying back to Washington, D.C., her spokesman said, after her extended absence due to the shingles virus threatened to derail Senate Democrats' agenda.
The San Francisco Chronicle reported that Feinstein, who had been convalescing in the Bay Area since mid-February, boarded a charter private plane and could return to the Senate as early as this evening. Adam Russell, a spokesman for the Democratic senator, confirmed she is in transit to Washington but declined to comment further."
Joseph, I disagreed, I think the Senate is very much like a damn country club. Very few minorities allowed and women are only allowed to play in the mornings/afternoon when the men are having three martini lunches. and you have to be voted in by the club board. do you know kind of like an elitist outfit?
Are you implying that Feinstein should be detained for evaluation or for her own protection or perhaps it is appropriate for her to have a second opinion of her physical and mental competence?
Really Kerry, when would that have been? What's to say Republicans would not have done the same thing they did when Scalia died? Republicans would have forced an equally pathetic person, probably woman to replace RBG had she retired sooner, just as Trump did after Scalia, or they would have had some ridiculous reason why they would not be able to replace her due to an election, someone's vacation, or some such nonsense. Alas, Republicans have no integrity. They pride themselves on their ignorance, lie whenever they possibly can, and care as little about anyone but themselves and their donors' wishes as they can. Every one of these points is highly evident in their behavior in the past say, 40 years or so. If they really cared about this nation, McConnell would have permitted Schumer to appoint a temporary replacement for Feinstein on the Judiciary Committee, but McConnell is truly lacking in any of the virtues and is proud of that too. I do think it is time for Sen. Feinstein to retire with grace and move on to the next part of her life.
As I recall, President Obama did ask RBG to resign in 2013. She had had several bouts of cancer by then. In 2013, Democrats still had a Senate majority. It was in the 2014 election that Republicans gained a majority. So, it would have been possible to replace her with an Obama nominee.
Good point RBG was intelligent up to her dying day. And kept up with her work on the Supreme Court even though she had cancer. I am sure that she was trying to hold on until Biden was sworn in. Republicans came up with a lousy excuses to jump the gun and appoint a Republican Party Conservative Supreme Court Judge before Trump lost the November Presidential Election. Dirty politics, dirty McConnell. He needs to go because HE is too old and deceitful and power hungry. But McConnell isn't voted out because he is really good at getting federal money for Kentucky. Let's see, what is that called? Who remembers?
I think that several Supreme Court Justices are going to have their goose cooked. Thomas is already in the roasting pan ready to go into the Oven. So be it.
The 2013 Senate had 53 Dems and 2 Independents who voted with Dems. At the time SCOTUS nominees could still be fillibustered, so 60 votes were needed for confirmation. If RBG had resigned and no replacement confirmed, Obergefell (marriage equality) would have been 4-4 and we'd stiill be without it. I agree with Ruth (both Sheets and Ginsburg).
There's no guarantee that there would have been a filibuster that could not have been overridden. I think then Majority Leader Harry Reid would have made sure a successor was confirmed. And Obergefell wasn't decided until the end of the 2014-2015 term.
Changing fillibuster rules is no simple matter. More likely, the replacement would have been someone acceptable to McConnell, someone more middle-of-the-road. 10 years ago plenty of liberals opposed marriage equality and that would not have been disqualifying for a nominee.
I assure you, RBG will be remembered for everything she ever did. The timing of her non-resignation and death are footnotes next to a mountain of achievemnts.
Yes, it would have been better if Ruth had resigned during Obama's Presidency. But by the time she realized her cancer had returned, it was too late and the trumpster was thrust on us. Ruth probably thought she could last until Biden took over.
Exactly, RBG kept working with intelligence trying to hang on as long as possible. I respect her for her dedication.
What really burns me is that AFTER Biden won the election, Trump and his cohorts made a point of obstructing Biden and his employees from having office space, briefings on nation defence, etc, etc. Trump made it clear that, "He wasn't about to hand over the reigns of the government until he absolutely had to." That should have been a clue to watch out for the attempted obstruction of the Electorial College certification of the election results, the infamous Jan. 6th assault and insurrection by the Trump's Proud Boys, and archanists.
I agree, Diana, someone in the Federal Government should have stepped up and forced the trumpster a) to allow President-Elect Biden to be briefed, and b) to have been prepared for the insurrection. The problem was no one ever faced this problem before. 44 transfers of power have transitioned peacefully. The trumpster and all his minions knew he lost. 61 lost lawsuits should have told them, if they didn't know this. I cannot fathom why CNN is giving him FREE airtime - a whole damned hour. I had my cable disconnected because I am so fed up with all cable news. How can they support outright treason. Ok, he hasn't been indicted yet, but every person of average intelligence and above knows he committed treason. But the media moguls are so infatuated with money they don't give a rat's ass about honesty, treasonous behavior, they only care about viewers and money,. money, money. I hope nobody but the maggots watches the damned show.
The Honorable Ruth Bader Ginsberg suffered from a common misperception: that only she could do the job to her standards. Its a position of mild to moderate narcissism, an illusion that led to a poor decision, a disservice to the nation equal to that of Sen. Feinstein's.
Hardly, IMO. Although it hasn't been discussed here, there is a lot of jockeying going on for Feinstein's seat, and I can't help but think that some people have a motive for encouraging her to sit tight.
And any of Obama's candidates would have been blocked just like Garland was. It's a damn shame McConnell still has so damn much power - even in the minority, as it were.
And BTW wasn't he just out of action for some time? Another person not likely well enough to do the job. I've been sidelined in a minor way in comparison and nobody would think of hiring me to sit on a national judicial committee, this is just privilege at play. The rules of engagement are broken and what seems obvious to the average observer is obscured by our inability to apply any objective measures to fitness. This jeopardy has been unaddressed since Reagan's second term, Nancy was horrified GOP would let him run again because he was in free fall mentally. However, I can say there are MANY unfit persons, mentally, in both chambers and SCOTUS, and there's no doubt the last POTUS should have been removed for a mental health disorder but this is a reflection of where the country is with mental health care. If you're poor they lock you up, if you're rich you get to have rockets and control enough capital to shift governments and the people and media praise your savvy. I would like to see objective mental health requirements put in place for all executive, congressional and supreme court positions but it will never happen. I would like to see Biden sit down with someone for an interview so people could see one way or another, he does better in long form and there were two interviews just prior to election where he was sharp as a tack, even on complex foreign policy stuff and I felt confident he was the person with a clue. I don't trust the everyday media to give undistorted clips, think about years of "Hillary said..." Instead of playing her actual words...
RBG was asked by President Obama twice to resign. She refused, twice. She knew she had a terminal illness and that time was not on her side. Why she chose not to do the politically expedient thing and something that would have helped keep the court more balanced is in my view about her ego.
Contrast that to Justice Kennedy who resigned within two weeks of having a meeting with Republican leaders.
By any chance, do you know if there's truth in the rumor that Justice Kennedy resigned on condition that the pugs not reveal some embarrassing information (don't know what it would be) about Kennedy's son? That's the word on the street. Thanks.
I agree with you about the sorry way the Dems go about things. However, I'm curious as to whether Justice Kennedy WOULD have retired, if the pugs hadn't had "something" on him/his family. Maybe they wouldn't have tried anything?
You are very correct on this issue,Sen.Feinstien most definitely needs to step down,for the good of our country.I realize she has done many good works,which are eternally appreciated,but the clock is now ticking and time's a-wasting.We have stuff we need to get done right NOW,not weeks or months from now when that clock runs out.
Please,Senator,do your final good work and step down,so we can complete the work that now needs to be done,before it's far too late to matter.
I don’t think she’s even up to reading your plea. I think she’s THAT ILL AND OLD. NO ONE on this thread has actually seen her. Her aides are covering for her. This is an emergency.
Her aides may read it. The public is not behind her on this. I have always stood up for Nancy Pelosi, but her judgement re: this issue worries me about her as well. I'm guessing she's trying to be a friend. But she should know that a Senator is what we need, esp now.
One thing is common. It’s hard for me to say that whether Dianne Feinstein should resign, because I wish there was a way she could have a member of her party help her the way members of the House of Representatives helped their members who could not be on the floor of the house of representatives physically, during the first part of the pandemic. But I will say this. Republican judges are assholes and everybody’s got one!
I agree that Sen. Feinstein must resign. If she resigns now, she will be seen as doing the patriotic thing on behalf of a whole lot of people, mainly women who would be appointed to important judgeships. None of this will happen if she waits until the end of this congressional term. She will rightly be seen as the Democrat who caused Republicans to get even more power than they deserve. As Prof. Reich notes, Dems have already pretty much lost Manchin and Sinema, both of whom can't get past their money addictions to do what is right for this nation. They can keep telling themselves that they are the true patriots (as Republicans do) when they are clearly only taking care of their own personal money addictions. If Sen. Feinstein retires, she will enable the California governor to appoint someone good who will carry on her legacy of service in the Senate. That should be the way it is presented to her and her staff. Fingers crossed!
Her daughter should be able to evaluate her competence as all kids do of their parents when dimentia sets in. Normally if you dont come into work for x amount of months you get put on disability leave. If you are mentally unfit and won't be getting better retirement. Usually folks with dimentia still think they are fully capable of performing their duties. The care giver then takes over decision making for the parent. Which should happen here.
I agree that no more stress needs to be put on Senator Feinstein. She can be "retired" without making this an issue for her. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
MLRGRMI, yes, there are a lot of older senators but there are a bunch of Republicans who are not quite as old who are not as aware as they need to be. Age is not really the issue with Sen. Feinstein. It's her health and ability to be sufficiently aware to perform the duties of a senator on important committees that is the problem here. It truly is time for her to retire. I would like to see the CA governor check out the situation in person to see what could be done.
Ruth, thank you, you make a good point. Have you felt for the past few years that Feinstein has changed? I have. I cannot site specific moments, but I have had this feeling watching her interactions with republicans for the past few years. Something felt “off”. I remember saying to myself after one incident: “Has Feinstein been captured?” Knowing her past formidable strength and savvy as a senate player, she just seemed “different”. What are your thoughts?
MLRGRMI, I, too have felt Sen. Feinstein is different lately. She used to be a forceful voice in the senate. I mean that literally. Lately she hardly speaks and does not always seem on top of the subjects she is dealing with. That is from an outsider, not from California where people are more aware of Sen. Feinstein's situation. It has made me sad, but sure she should retire in honor so she can move on and the Senate can too.
I think that's fair, Newsome would not be outside his box by being proactive and inserting himself here. What would Kamala say? Probably step down and let us put someone in through state executive who can make it through the next election and keep the boat afloat.
With ALL due respect to her career, the very fact that Dianne Feinstein is not resigning on her own volition, holding up such crucial work in Congress, is proof itself of cognitive impairment whereby the country and the principles she has worked for all her life do not take precedence over her dogged self absorption in holding on to such an uncertain and tenuous future where she could ever again be of any help whatsoever, never mind the present urgent need for someone with full capacity, except as she can behind the scenes as a retired person. Who is it in the country and in her life that can convince her of it? A formal group appeal? Her family? Help!
There comes a point I wouldnt blame her for whatever decision she wants to make. If shes not mentally capable of taking care of herself physically. Ie doesnt remember to take her pills, doesnt pay the bills etc. She has already abrogated her ability to make decisions for herself. Start the whole power of attorney, living will health care proxy and then retire her gently. If she is in an altered mental state my sympathies for whoever tries to do that.
Right now, California, the 5th largest economy in the world is represented by 1 senator while the other 49 states are represented by 2. For the good of the state and our country Sen Feinstein must step down NOW!
It’s very sad to see a once respected and competent woman completely destroy her legacy. Does she have any idea of the harm she is doing to America now? Doesn’t she care? Whose side is she actually on? Is her stubbornness to cling to power because of ego or dementia? In these past few years, it’s become so apparent that we can’t take anything for granted. I used to think naively that politicians who are corrupt or harming democracy would be kicked out. Why do we have to wait, hoping that they will voluntarily resign?
I do not believe she does have any idea of what is happening and she is not serving her constituents, me included I Quit thinking she did back when she commended Lindsey Graham on the wonderful way he managed .... it appears that who ever is calling the shots does not think that she should resign. Maybe the same people who threatened to out her and her spouse on business dealings are involved. SHE NEEDS TO RESIGN NOW. Her unwillingness to do so requires that she be subject to an evaluation of her capacity to serve. She did many good and courageous things; but, that is in the past. Now is a very critical time. THIS specific situation is not about sexism, though many, many other issues are, not by a long shot and it is grating for Pelosi to use it now.
No, I think she’s THAT incapacitated. Think about it. She’s ILL. She’s OLD. Her aides are covering for her. We don’t see her anymore.. This is an emergency, not a display of narcissism.
I have never viewed Feinstein as narcissistic. You have to be ambitious to be in the senate, but she never struck me as ego-driven or vain like so many other male senators. However, in the last few years, I have noticed concerning behavior that led me to question her independence. It struck me as her being compromised or captured. I cannot define this very well, but it has been with me for two years. And now that she is missing critical judiciary votes, my alarm is heightened. In her prime she would have understood the crisis we face in the judiciary capture by the far-right. So I can only conclude that she is either cognitively declining, or captured and intentionally f*cking things up. Either way, we have a crisis.
Who could capture her, Trump? No, it has to be cognitive decline with a dose of poor health. We all may have her buried by the end of this day if this discussion continues and grows.
It is hard to admit, as one ages, that certain things must be set aside because life is winding down. Think an elderly parent who doesn't want to give up the car keys because that means they are giving up their independence. A military service member would be medically discharged because they couldn't perform the duties required. Same with Senator Feinstein.
I have no real idea, but think if you had an aging relative in charge of something important and they disappeared from view . Wouldn’t it set off alarms? Her aides can find other employment…..
Gloria, I'm thinking along the same lines. Those enabling her do NOT want to give up their jobs, be the reason money, connections to power and influence, or whatever else it may be.
Feinstein is waiting for her physicians to release her for travel according to the news. Shingles is very painful. Could she have become medication dependent? Who are her healthcare providers?
How can you believe that someone you describe as essentially incapacitated still has the strong will and ability to perform "stubbornness", and falsify her "corrupt" intentions?
If she's suffering from dementia it's unlikely she is aware of any of this regardless of what she says or how she appears, think Reagan who always looked good and sounded ok but was not there. That's the point of dementia, and personality disorders, people are literally unaware of the reality before them. It's not really a choice if she isn't being guided properly by those caring for her.
i agree 1000%. feinstein has demonstrated over the past 6 or so months that she is completely incapable of doing her job on behalf of the people who elected her. her positions of powers (especially on the judiciary committee) and her inability to perform AT ALL at this crucial time politically are outraging to those who wish to step up and do the work.
GrrlScientist ; I wonder if her constituents could let her know of their concern? Maybe they have. If she can't do her job at a time like this, when the judiciary is so compromised, it is concerning.
I share your concern, Professor Reich, For the good of the Country, the State, the party and most of all, the Judiciary Branch of Government, Dianne Feinstein needs to step down and she needs to do it now. I admit, I have not been an admirer of Senator Feinstein since 2002 when I emailed her and asked her to vote against the Iraqi war, and she emailed back saying she knew things I didn't and was voting in favor of the war. However I continued to vote for her. If she digs in her heels and hangs on until 2024, it may be too late. We have several really good people ready to step in to replace her. All are young, healthy, and progressive. Three particularly stand out, Katie Porter, Adam Schiff, and Ro Khanna. I will happily support any of the three. Right now I am supporting Katie Porter, but I will support any of thee three. Please, Dianne, step aside and allow someone to do the necessary work.
Senator Alex Padilla. Governor Gavin Newsom, the DNC the California Democratic House caucus. I've emailed Alex Padilla once, it's time to contact him again and also the Governor
Katie Porter is great, she would be a terrific fit...she's very engaged, understands practical matters, speaks truth to power, is capable of gathering facts and evaluating complex situations and then speaking plainly about them to constituents. 👍
I propose a mandatory cognitive battery of tests conducted for every member of congress as well as the President/VP and Supreme Court justices once every two years after the age of 65.
To be conducted in order to remain in their place of power.
Morgaine, I would like to see a test on our Constitution given to every candidate running for office at any level. Perhaps the test used for prospective citizens to the US would be a good screening device, taken before the election. Maybe it could be given with a few changes each time they take the oath of office. Then their scores should be broadcast. That would address the mental competence issues too without psychologists and other outsiders involved.
That's an interesting idea. People who apply for citizenship have to know the 'values' but so many elected officials obviously haven't a clue, they've been reading party cliff notes as a sub for actually intelligence or applied study of civics or government. Have Jamie Raskin write up the test. Every public servant should at least be able to pass the citizenship test before serving. Hmm.
While I agree, I’m specifically talking about the members who meet what used to be considered the usual retirement age for Americans. Too many people in politics stay for too long and if they can’t do the job then they need to go.
As for higher standards for everyone else, absolutely, but until you get the massive amounts of power and money out of politics it’s unlikely to happen.
I would guess that a quarter or more of legislators couldn't pass. I agree on tougher srandards to run for office. They (all) should be able to pass the test required for citizenship.
Yes! The standard citizenship test would take out a significant block of idiots and make room for competent representatives. I've heard people say it smacks of "Jim Crow" tactics, but the standard for serving in Congress or as President was written with the assumption that the choice would be made among white men of letters with land and public influence. If we want a truly plural society, we have to have some standards for public service that go beyond age and who has the richest donors. You have to take a Civil Service exam to get a low-paying civilian position with the government, but none for Congress? It's ridiculous.
Derek, it sounds like a good idea to have cognitive testing for people over 65, but which tests, who does the testing? How do we keep politics out of this as it has infected nearly everything else. Look at Trump's 5 words craziness. Sen. Feinstein's situation is different in that it is supposedly medical. That should be able to be checked out. Perhaps the Governor of CA should do more inquiries, even meet with Sen. Feinstein to get a true sense of what is going on with her. His office could release a report on her condition. It is important that CA have a second Senator now, not at some indeterminant time in the future!
The only solution I could think of is to bring in an independent physician who has no skin in the game. Nigh on impossible I know but I don’t know of a better way currently.
And I've signed quite a few online petitions asking her to resign.
Furthermore, Nancy Pelosi is not doing the nation or the democratic party any good by attributing calls for Feinstein's much-needed resignation to sexist bias, which is not the case in this matter.
The general election is next year, and the fascistic forces working to install an autocratic leader in the White House are working on all cylinders from the radical right-wing scotus "justices," to fascist christians, to the increasing authoritarianism of red state politicians.
I find myself equally alarmed, because of this, but also because it's cropping up all over the place. There seems to be a concerted effort to bring down the government, the way it's done under fascist order. Running up the national debt is one of the things fascists do to get the State closer to toppling over. The republicans are now way past the work that had to be done in that department. The Trump tax cut was the whipping cream topped with a cherry. Kevin McCarthy could be bringing it down—by design. I notice many warnings by people in Washington who are closest to power—all of them are focused on this lately, that it could happen. Laurence Tribe is urging Biden on television, what he must do to prevent this coming debacle. Reagan was the one who brought about, "Starve the Beast!" and they've never stopped doing it. On the bright side, I remember when Biden declared his love for his adopted son, Barack O'Bama, using the word, "spine," as in, "he's no spineless wimp." Knowing what I know, the Irish are the proudest-to-be-stubborn-to-the-end, on the planet. In this stand-off, the Scotsman will lose. (I'm only talking culture here, not DNA.)
I was taught by my parents and my teachers that JUDGES were and are held to higher standards the regular people. They have mandatory requirements they must meet like being impartial, being honorable, having a stellar reputation and leading by example. As Americans we can probably count on one hand how many impartial Judges there are!
Certain members of our SCOTUS need to look up the definition of the word HONORABLE. Why? Because they are NOT!! The definition I found was the following: honorable and impartial service to one's nation, a person of high respect as that shown for special merit; recognition or esteem.
Or how about the definition of being corrupt: Marked by immorality and perversion; Venal or dishonest.
You are supposed to be Role Models for the rest of us!
I’ve been told by the Australian human rights commission that magistrate’s and judges are immuned from prosecution and can make any decisions that they like and not held accountable for their actions and I’ve got all the evidence of magistrate’s breaking other magistrate’s court orders and magistrate’s breaking their own court orders and a lot more evidence of corruption by the Australian judicial system
And check out my post above: incompetence or inability to function as required ought to lead to either resignation or removal, whatever your branch of government or gender.
I admire and respect the work of both Pelosi and Feinstein (and am a constituent of them both).
Pelosi's allusion to the pass that has been given to male senators with similar health issues does point to unequal treatment, though i don't believe any senator should be given such a pass. But, as you clearly point out, we are in a political crisis with the judiciary that endangers our democracy, and we can not afford to indulge a senator whose absence is blocking the confirmation of Biden's nominees. Feinstein's comment that she is not holding anything up, that the nominees will all be cleared as soon as she returns (whenever that may be, she does not say), and her failure to grasp the danger at hand, show that her once very sharp mind is sadly compromised. She cannot see that she must retire. We need an intervention here! Schumer? Feinstein family members? Someone(s) must help her to leave, ASAP.
Several years ago a video posted to Twitter showed Senator Feinstein talking down to some students and their teachers regarding the Green New Deal. There they were in all their eager excitement, a group of students, young constituents maybe 11 or 12 years old, dropping off posters they had made and/or a petition or letters signed by all in their classes explaining why they hoped she would support the Green New Deal. It would have been so easy for her to thank them for their work and interest, and tell them she and her staff would review their work, as well as the legislation, and seriously consider their request. Even if she never intended to support it, what harm would it have caused if she said something that would keep them excited about being involved and fighting for what they believe is best for our world? But she didn't do that. She immediately said she couldn't support it and when they protested with excited but level-headed comments, she spoke over them, saying they were young and she had experience that they didn't have and she knew better than they did because she had been working at her job for so long. After a teacher made a comment, she told the teacher, "Then you should run for the Senate." The children looked immensely disappointed and I was so flabbergasted by her behavior that I was literally embarrassed for her.
Don't we want young people involved in what is negatively affecting our society and our world? In my opinion, she effectively told those children that they don't deserve to have a voice if she doesn't agree with it, and that if they dared to have a voice she didn't agree with, she wouldn't consider it because she "knew better." She was their US senator and she dissed and dismissed them. It was a golden opportunity to encourage their involvement in issues at their young ages and she blew it because she "knew better."
The Professor is correct...Senator Feinstein needs to resign. Right now she is thinking only about herself and not about her constituents or her Democrat colleagues in the Senate. It is rather selfish behavior, imo.
You are correct. Aging is a fragile process that is not linear, yet if we are blessed to live long enough will face its challenges. I have retired from fulltime work, in part, to set aside for younger leaders to emerge. Governmental leaders are no different. You are also correct about age limits; one measure does not fit all. Senator Feinstein needs to resign from all indications and should not have to be told to do so....those around her should convince her to do so, now.
Senator Feinstein may not even be able to comprehend enough to recognize that she is a senator. She must be ordered to have a competency test. It seems that her handlers don’t want to let go of power. It’s disgraceful, she has destroyed her legacy.
The Senate is not a damn country club; Feinstein is not entitled to this absence! If she cannot do her job, she must do the honorable act of stepping down. Her legacy? NO! We need a functioning judiciary!!!
Shingles can be prevented with the Shingrix vaccine. It is well known, unless you have dementia and don’t opt to get the vaccine to protect yourself. If you can’t even make this logical decision, which is in your best interest, how can you make crucial decisions that will ultimately affect our entire country?
I highly respected Senator Feinstein but she has a duty to the American people that is not being attended to. She needs to be asked to resign now for the sake of our democracy.
Marlo- According to the CDC, the Shingrix vaccine is more than 90% effective, and provides "immunity stays strong for at least the first 7 years after vaccination."
Perhaps she was negligent, but I am unaware of her vaccine status. I would take your point even further; if the issue were that she was struck by lightening (through no fault of her own), she still should resign because her selfish vanity is petty compared to the damage she is doing to the country. RBG similarly chose selfishly, and it cost all of us. What galls me are the enablers like Gillibrand (For whom I voted, by the way), who support her "right" to leave when she chooses, as if she has earned the "right" to allow horrific consequences for the rest of us while she recovers. This is a perverse perspective.
Yes, RBG tarnished her legacy by not putting the country ahead of her misguided ego (or something!), and the country will suffer for her selfishness for many decades, perhaps longer than her legacy. Sad ending to an amazing career.
There is a time to recognize when the baton should be past. RBG refused to recognize this. However, given what Moscow Mitch did with Garland's nomination, there is no way to know if he would have stolen the seat RBG held. I don't think the founders ever envisioned a situation like McConnell created upon the death of Scalia.
Moscow Mitch DID steal the seat RBG had on SCOTUS by ramming through Barrett right at election time though he said that couldn't be done by Dems several months before an election. I wish more people would challenge GQP hypocrisy.
What would it matter.? Republic clans don’t care about morals. They call it playing hardball while the Democrats are playing plastic bat Wiffleball.
RBG should have quit while Obama was in his first term.
Even though I’m not a great believer, certainly an act of Providence was Scalia’s departure. we could certainly use a few more of those situation’s. Call them timely/untimely deaths. sorry about the morbidity, but I’m tired of this crap.
Let’s walk this back a bit - yes, RGB could have retired during Obama’s tenure, allowing him to select her replacement and assuming Mitch didn’t interfere. But as a female Justice, I am guessing she, like so many of us, thought that Hillary Clinton would be the next and first female President and perhaps wanted to have her select her replacement. There is no way should could have known trump would take that away from all of us. And she hung on as long as she could physically. Can we stop Monday morning quarterbacking RBG? The villain is all this SCOTUS mess is the evil and aged Mitch McConnell. I pray for karma.
Although I respect your point of view, I agree with JennSH on RBG and Feinstein. It may be that RBG thought HRC would be the next President, but to think is different than to know for sure. Obama was a Democratic President who would pick a progressive Justice who protected people's rights, possibly the same Justice HRC would have chosen. Had RBG stepped down earlier, when the numbers worked to seat someone more progressive to SCOTUS without opposition games, progressive Justices aren't outnumbered by Opus Dei subscribers on the highest court. In addition to the Republicans inventing new obstructionist policies out of whole cloth to get their way, they make sure to use numerical advantage whenever they have it. Democrats often don't. They usually fail to move with urgency in matters like these, depend too much on hopeful polling projections and keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
It is fine to be optimistic but pragmatism, when the legislature is so thinly sliced from term to term, is absolutely necessary. Senator Feinstein, for whatever reasons motivate her, resists stepping down to allow Governor Newsom to name another suitable Democrat to fill the role and get progressive judges installed in the court pipeline. They are needed to counterbalance the many lunatic idealogues, like Judge Kacsmaryk of NDTX, already stuffed into the Federal judiciary when Republicans had their chance. She plans not to run in 2024 but suppose her seat going to another Democrat isn't a given? No one forecast a thrice divorced, four-time bankrupt property developer and classless reality star winning the Republican nomination and then the Presidency in 2020. No one expected Coakley to lose to Brown for the Kennedy seat in MA either. There could just as surprisingly be a some dark horse waiting in CA. Democrats and the nation itself cannot afford to take that chance.
All excellent points but then I believe she would have had to resign in Obama’s first term when the Dems still had the Senate. We had just elected the first Black man to the Presidency. We had passed the Affordable Care Act. We had dug out of the recession caused by Wall Street greed. Things looked pretty good. To really analyze this we would have to also review what cases were before the court. Perhaps this lesson from the RBG situation is the one that Feinstein needs to learn.
In my opinion, RBG had so many and serious health issues, that she was covered by Federal Health care. If she had retired, it would have cost her tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in premiums and copays
Read this and figure it out: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/just-ask-what-kind-of-health-benefits-do-the-supreme-court-justices-receive
There is a part of me that really wants to let this comment pass but the other part of me just can’t do it. Are you seriously suggesting the RBG wasn’t retiring because she didn’t want to pay health insurance and copays? Have you read anything about the person she was? And this article from 2012 basically says that federal employees heath insurance is basically equivalent to the good benefits offered by large corporations who are able to negotiate coverage and fees due to the numbers of people enrolled.
Everybody’s worried about their legacy. why did these people care they’ll be dead. There’s an old saying,” when you’re dead, you’re a dead pecker head”.
So much speculation, so little intellectual integrity, Dell Erwin. The shame is all yours.
Who is this dell Erwin, he is not in the article and not in the comments.
Dell Erwin may have removed his comment. He had some shame/blame for RBG (please get her initials in the correct order!)
and then he wrote "SHAME ON HER" . I couldn't let it pass.
Hmmm... Gillibrand didn't think the same about Al Franken. She led the campaign to oust him.
Yes, good point. Franken didn't get an investigation nor a hearing. The Dems only had 47 during Doug Jones' term and then Alabama sent Tuberville, who couldn't name the 3 branches of governmen. And now, Franken is not in the Senate Judiciary committee.
Didn’t Franken automatically resign without an investigation, iirc? That was a pretty shameful incident.
Oh wow, I was SO UPSET when he did that! They were ready to have an a hearing. The accusation was so flimsy, I thought he had a good chance of being exonerated but he decided to leave. The Democratic Party treated him terribly.
The image the incident was based upon was clearly photoshopped. The focus and light source were different in the image of Franken and the background image.
Pressured into it by the holier than thou caucus in the Democratic party. They are willing to lose control of the senate and house to the fasscists because of some peccadillo on the part of a member, whereas Republicans gave Senator Vitter, a standing ovation after he was investigated for frequenting the DC Madam, and SC elects adulterers, rapists, perjurers, racists to office without embarrassment.
Too much influence by the political correct Gen Z and Millienals, to the total detriment of Democracy.
Franken resigned under pressure by his own Democratic Party. Now he regrets it. Furthermore, “ Now, seven of the 36 Democrats who demanded he resign say they regret it.” ~ BBC
Focus, people. This thread isn't about Al Franken or #metoo. Feinstein needs to leave her office and make room for a successor.
Yes, I thought about that, too.
Women who are sexually assaulted never (close to never) get a hearing or investigation. Franken is one man who indulged in some creepy behavior and was one of the rare indulgers who was caught. Things don't seem to get cleaned up evenly. Occasionally, rarely, when a man has done what so many have done, one gets caught here and there. I am not sorry that Franken was exposed and disappeared. And it is creepy to see him creeping his way right back into the public eye as if nothing happened. Gillibrand is a reliable Feminist who seizes every opportunity to even the playing field which is still a very slippery slope. Dianne Feinstein's demise has been confusing, and hadn't been as clear as it has become as we lose more time to confirm nominees. I am sorry to see anyone accusing Gillibrand of anything other than standing up for women.
Franken was set up. He's a good man.
Franken was fabulous! I miss having him in the Senate. His actions were misunderstood and taken out of context. I normally like Gillibrand, but she was wrong to demonize Franken.
He was! By Roger Stone!!!
The Franken incident was completely overblown. Now we're missing a good senator and communicator. Face palm! Sometimes Dems get in their own way. I've never been a Gillibrand fan because she seems self-serving in the extreme.
Progressives and Democrats suffer from a debilitating disease that's ill-fitted to politics: a conscience. Republicans are immune to their own hypocrisy, while we stand around in circular firing squads seeking moral purity, our biggest fault that we assume the GOP will play by the rules. Which they haven't done since Ike.
It has been clear since well before her last election that Feinstein wasn't up to par mentally.
Gillibrand evens the playing field to the detriment of her party and democracy, Because of the Jihad mentality, Republicans, the party of fascism, has taken virtual control of the government, while (at present) they can't pass laws, they can put a strangle hold, like threatening a default on the nations credit, causing fear world wide, and a possible world wide depression, not to Mennonite the international community abandoning the dollar for the Yuan, and some have already done so.
For me, the distinction between Senator Feinstein and Justice Ginsburg is that the former is cognitively impaired and the latter was still very sharp. I suspect she was waiting for Hillary Clinton to appoint her replacement, but we all know how that worked out.
I also think that RBG had overcome cancer and Heaven knows what else so many times, she may have thought she could do it one more time.
She told her long-time friend Nina Totenberg that she thought she could "play hurt," as athletes do.
Then she needs to get herself to DC to do so. (Or was this some recent "confession" to Totenberg?)
Just goes to show, you can be "tack" sharp but not necessarily have good sense or judgment.
True, that.
My opinon is that she held out for pecuniary reasons. He had the most excellent health care while in office,including priority treatment at Walter Reed.
She would have had to pay more if she retired, and not have access to Walter Reed.
I don't understand why people are against a bill forcing people to retire at say 70. Maybe someone can explain the rationale behind that position. Most people I know are happy to retire.
We're all so different in our aging. Imposing a single standard is sophistry.
Sandra B
I don't think so. A lot of people are dead before 65. Most of my high school friends died before 2000. Nothing in life is fair, but I still believe in imposing a forced retirement age for the obvious reasons, especially because our children and grandchildren have probably had more than enough of our rules and regulations. We should be decent enough to pass the country on to them.
I agree- make room for younger generations with fresh ideas. The elders can be advisors to the young. A multigenerational congress would better reflect the country.
Due to increased longevity and health in later years and in some cases labor shortages the age of full retirement and pensioning is under pressure to increase. Setting that arbitrary limit on public service contradicts the other efforts
I understand that. I highly disagree with it. We've had age limits on most everything for as long as I've been alive and this should not be an exception. I have to have my eyes examined every year to keep driving starting three years ago. There are other age restrictions on things. If 70 is too young, then make it some other age. I don't really think the country's decisions should be made by old folks even though I'm one. It's really no longer going to be their country. I'm all in for age limits.
I agree! (I'm 70, and it's been a long enough "ride".)
How about a set retirement age with exceptions then?! If Feinstein was so valuable in her seat she could ask for an extension of her post.
There is an income reduction after retirement, . Medicare is not free, currently it costs $194.90 a month deducted from Social Security or if you retired under a SS replacement plan, from you checking account. If you have a mortgage, a car loan, or cosigned a grandchild's student loan, you have to keep working.
Most folk don't have a personal retirement plan, simply because they couldn't afford one during their working years.
Lucky are those that are in good enough health to work after 65 much less 70.
Lucky are those who can easily afford the $164.90, and can retire at 65. That's 194.9 reasons why we need M4All. We are being robbed.
The Supreme Court is 6 to 3 so Bader Ginsburg would’ve only made it 5 to 4. i’m pretty sure that majority rules. Except in presidential elections. Yeah I know that doesn’t make any sense. But what the hell doesn’t this country?
Yes, 5 conservatives on the court would still be a majority, but occasionally one will stray. As it is now, it is rare for 2 of the 6 to vote in any way which doesn't preserve power for rich people and taking away rights and protections of vulnerable people.
There is a possibility she has no idea if she ever had the chicken pox or not!
It’s “Marlo”
I fixed it.
My apologies, Marlo.
selfish vanity? look in the mirror Joseph Lawson!
Agree. "Selfish vanity" describes neither the justice nor the senator. These are archaic terms formerly used to put women in their place—guilt-ridden shame. If Feinstein is cognitively muddled, this is not selfish vanity. If Ginsburg was optimistic, this was not selfish vanity. Who first used that term in this discussion, anyway? The term "selfish vanity" should be retired with the rest of the mid-20th Century. Sen. Diane Feinstein should be offered a letter of resignation to sign, by someone who deeply respects and loves her.
Geezus, why do people personalize such stuff. Vanity and ego are applicable to men. for instance Mitch McConnell, Biden and half or more of the Congress.
There is a portion of the population that personalizes everything and reflexively become defensive, from gun owners, religious to render, race and LGBT.
And all they are doing is giving the enemies of democracy, the fascists, ammunition resupply.
Let's stick with valid complaints and remedies, not crap that offends someones easily wounded sensibilities.
I’m gay and I don’t have “easily wounded sensibilities”. I do, however, object when people are being unfair, which is a reasonable thing to do.
Really? Feel free to disagree, but offer a substantive point.
Your original comment prompted my reply which is lost somewhere in the thread because I am inept with this form of communication. You accused the Senator of selfish vanity, made some other derogatory, speculative comments and then took aim at the late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg which prompted me to reply. Your misogyny is repellant.
Now that you have clarified, your assumptions are presumptuous and narrow-minded. I did not make this about their gender, you did. I have no issue with their gender, nor did I write anything of the sort; my comments are about their choices to remain in power at the expense of the rest of us.
There are reasons to explain Feinstein , RGB and other octogenarians in government
1. Vanity or ego
2 Pecuniary
I explained the latter in a subsequent post.
Shingles does not take months and months to resolve. Dementia at 89 is not unusual, and there is no cure.
I think others are making these decisions, not Ms. Feinstein, and they need to get their heads out of the sand.
Actually, for someone of Senator Feinstein's age, shingles does take a long time to resolve. My mother had shingles in her late 80's. She was miserable and in pain for months. After the rash went away, the nerve pain remained. My now 86 yr. old aunt had shingles several years ago. That case greatly increased her frailty because the pain lingered for months. For the elderly, shingles is no joke. Sadly, this situation has likely rendered the senator disabled. She should resign NOW!
I must remember to ask my PCP about Shingrix. I had a shot over 7 years ago, time for a booster.
The Shingrix vaccine has been available for at least 6 years and I don't know why your family didn't take advantage or that smart optioin. Could you tell us?
Probably like me. I had a shinles shot back in 2009, and thought it was good forever, just learned that it is goof for only 7 years
Shingrix has nasty side effects- most notably Guillian Barre syndrome. Some people don’t want to gamble with paralysis. My PCP has advised me to not get it- which means at least 1 of her patients was harmed by taking it.
Shingrix is a relatively new vaccine since it became available late 2017. I suspect your relatives did not get the vaccine.
Celeste K: It depends on how severe a case one has. Complications can include pneumonia and even encephalitis. Nonetheless, she should resign. No argument.
Some people who have had shingles do have a lingering problem with nerve pain which is often described as excruciating. I recall reading some years back that "post-herpetic nerve pain" that followed the active outbreak of shingles, when it did not go away, often drove sufferers to suicide, it was so relentlessly painful. Here is something from Mayo Clinic:
Postherpetic neuralgia - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic
Feb 10, 2023 It causes a burning pain in nerves and skin. The pain lasts long after the rash and blisters of shingles go away. The risk of postherpetic neuralgia rises with age. It mainly affects people older than 60. There's no cure, but treatments can ease symptoms. For most people, postherpetic neuralgia gets better over time.
I stand corrected regarding the length of time that shingles effects a person. I have never had the experience of following any of my patients for the long term after the initial recovery of the contagious rash and blisters. It makes sense that Ms. Feinstein is still feeling the effects of this disease.
It makes it clear, however, that she is not able to return to the Senate to perform her duties. It is important that she step down and allow another to continue in her place.
That being the case it is all about the money. An a member of congress gets full service and access to the best medical care available. When retired both are reduced and the burden falls on the family.
Mario and Joseph Lawson: According to one of the official gov med sites:
"Who should not receive zoster vaccine? Zoster vaccine should not be given to people who are immunocompromised, pregnant women, or those who have previously had anaphylaxis to the vaccine (either Zostavax or varicella vaccine) or its components (including gelatin or neomycin)."
Not to be presumptuous, but I think we can assume the Senator is not pregnant. We have no knowledge re: her personal medical history, so whether or not she should have been vaccinated (and who knows -- maybe she was and for some reason it didn't take) is totally beside the point.
She should resign for the good of the country -- like yesterday!!
I don't think shingles is the issue at hand.
Also immuno compromised and I am in remission from cancer, and had pneumonia after my 1st treatment of Keytruda in 2017. And am allergic to the neo in neosporin
and the neo in neomycin which is a component of Shingrix, but I also carry my Epipen (bee sting allergy)
William: Sounds like you're a real survivor with all your wits intact. Guess Shingrix wouldn't be the vaxx of choice in your situation, so good luck against shingles and any 'neos' lurking out there. Some people have all the luck. 🙀🙃 At least you're not pregnant.
Agree. I was just thinking since it is well known she has dementia, perhaps she either wasn’t aware of it or felt the updated Shingrix vaccine wasn’t warranted if she already had the old vaccine.
Not prevented, just lessened. But at 89 the effects are probably worse, anyway.
“Shingrix is more than 90% effective at PREVENTING shingles and PHN. Immunity stays strong for at least the first 7 years after vaccination.” From CDC.gov
A friend had the vaccine and still contracted it. Her doc said that it only lessened the effects. She must have been in the other percentage.
Perhaps your friend only received the old shingles vaccine which only was 51% effective in preventing shingles. Many are under the incorrect assumption that they don’t need the newer Shingrix vaccine because they were already vaccinated. This is a terrible assumption due to Shingrix being much more successful (90%) in the prevention of this painful, blistering disease. It is perfectly fine and recommended to get this additional vaccine. I did.
As someone who had both shots of the Shingrix vaccine just two years ago, and is currently afflicted with a case of internal shingles, I understood that the vaccine only reduces your chances for shingles and PHN (post shingles nerve pain) but does not eliminate the possibility you will get it. For those that do get Shingles despite getting the Shingrix vaccination, the vaccine is known to reduce the severity and duration of the it. Speaking from first-hand experience as a relatively young and healthy (not immuno-compromised) person vaccinated with Shingrix, the pain from internal shingles is intense, I can't imagine what the pain is like without the vaccine.
You may be right about that. I can’t ask her.
That means I'll need another round in a couple of years.
Me too, I got the two doses when it first came out in 2017
Isn't the question of why she hadn't been vaccinated with Shingrix (or had allowed her immunity to lapse) a question for her doctor? Unless more information is forthcoming, the rest is speculation - and probably a bit unfair as such...
With all due respect for your point about Shingrix shingles vaccine, the broader political point is not about that vaccine, its efficacy, Diane Feinstein's vaccination status or the severity of her shingles outbreak. The political point is her protracted absence from her duties as a Senator and the effect of her absence from the Judiciary Committee on judicial appointments.
Mitch McConnell whose craven list of "Things To Do" has two major things on it:
Get right-wing, Federalist Society, regressive judges appointed while blocking any and all Democratic nominated or approved judges;
Block everything and everybody proposed by Democrats.
Mitch fancies himself President because he controls the country without ever having to actually run for that office, knowing he had no chance ever to be elected outside of Kentucky. Kentucky should never have elected him because he has little to no interest, concern or connection to Kentucky, but that state has inflicted Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul and Thomas Massie on all of America. Mitch's ego has a different character to Diane Feinstein's; he got himself out of the hospital, out of rehab ( ALL AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE, NO DOUBT!!!) and back in the Senate to take up his poison mantle of undermining America's progress and decency. He is a duplicitous, dishonest, manipulative operator, but a cunning one all the same. He got himself back in the Senate and back to his version of "work."
Diane Feinstein may harbor some belief that she can and will come back and be able to do the work, but her declining health has been apparent, even before the revelation of her having shingles. She has been absent since January, I think, and it is not a job where "co-workers" can take up the slack. She has been absent too long already and needs to resign.
Charles "Chuck" Grassley is another one who should not have run again, should have retired (long ago!) but he is very, very full of his own sense of importance and so America suffers for his selfishness.
Professor/Secretary Reich called it a "gerontracy" and it does have that appearance. It might be more acceptable if those old ones were wise sages, great fonts of wisdom, with minds and mouths still vibrant and enlightening, but they are not.
And note to Professor/Secretary Reich: you certainly don't need to be told this, but I'll say it anyway: it was the vile, despicable Strom Thurmond who was a very, very small imitation of a man - his disgusting dyed-red hair, his nonsensical (and worse) verbiage, his outrageous hypocrisy, his lifetime of cruelty that some wanted to exonerate towards the end of his life..... No, sir, he would never measure up to a good man.
I also think it’s a pretty big leap to assume she didn’t get the vaccine. Unless you know her personally or she has made a public statement to the contrary.
It’s like birth control; you can still get pregnant, but unlikely.
Unless you only received the older shingles vaccine, Zostavax which was only 51% effective. (You can still get the Shingrix vaccine which is 90% effective in the prevention of shingles).
I don’t know her health status, other than she’s 89. It’s safe to assume there’s some compromised immunity at that age that also might impact ones’ decision to receive any vaccine. Only her doctor can advise her on that. The ‘I got it, so everyone else can’ is not sound medical advice, sorry.
So was COVID a debilitating illness and there were those who were advised to not take the vaccine(s). By the CDC., for Pete’s sake. I’d bet there’d be a disclaimer on the website about consulting ones’ own health care provider. But hey, why bother, when they can just ask you?
Shingrix has neomycin as a component. I am allergic to the neo as in neosporin (I use polysporing as a replacement) also allergic to bee stings so carry an Epipen. Any thoughts as to what Shingrix will do, I would rather use my Epipen than have shingles. I had a shingles shot back in 2009 (I think, just a guess, can't remember the date)
I got Zostavax and later had an itchy rash on my chest that was worse than the miliaria that I often got in summer. When I noticed the whelps in lines like with herpes & went to the Dr. it was treated with an anti-viral med. Other than itchy discomfort it wasn't as devastating as what ppl describe as Shingles. So the vaccine probably helped a bit.
Zostervax was the old vaccine. Shingrix is much more effective including for people over 70. I was a medical social worker and geriatric care mgr.
Once you've seen the suffering of shingles victims you know you never want to go through that experience and you pay attention for available vaccines. I had them both and it is highly recommended that you go for Shingrix despite having had the less effective Zostervax.
Sorry to disillusion you, but you can still get shingles after receiving the vaccine. I know a gentleman who is vaccinated and still got shingles. It might be rare, but it does happen.
And Shingles on average only lasts a few weeks, not into next year. My pick: Katie Porter and her whiteboard.
My thought, exactly.
My mom had shingles at age 90. They gave her medication and it was gone quickly so though i know each person has different issues, there should be legislation that doesn’t allow unending service on these committees. I mean a Nevada county voted for a Republican dead pimp and Republicans were able to replace the person after the election was over. How is this different? She should at least be able to appoint someone for the duration of her term?
You know this for a fact
Agree, but what if she is incapable of resigning due to health reasons, such as dementia or she's in a coma? If a member of Congress becomes incapacitated, there is no legal avenue to replace that person. This is a larger issue that needs to be addressed!
Agreed. What happens in the gap? We can’t afford to wait to find out, esp in this crucial time.
I think a Constitutional Amendment is needed in the long term to address this concern. In the short term, I think we are stuck if she is incapable of resigning. It takes a 2/3rds vote in the Senate to expel her, so the Republicans can block this, and she hasn't done anything to justify expulsion under present Senate rules.
I just read & posted the link to where she’s on her way back now. I am really hoping that she is coming back to bow out gracefully and allow a path forward, immediately. No one can condemn her legacy. But her legacy does not need to end in a manner that’s not within her control so while she still has it, I hope she uses it!
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/dianne-feinstein-set-return-senate-nearly-3-month-absence-due-health-i-rcna83434
Nancy Pelosi's position on Feinstein, James Clyburn's shady role in keeping his seat safe and the rest of SC unsafe for other black candidates (per ProPublica), and Diane Feinstein's de facto sovereignty are compelling arguments for an age cut-off in congress. Biden's "Where's Jackie?" moment removed any doubt he should decline to run again. (Yes, I'd have been involuntarily retired years ago myself.) The U.S. desperately needs for leaders now in their prime but denied top positions to be unleashed.
Age limit, no; cognitive screening, yes.( Like getting a drivers' license as an elder.)
I should have had another cup of coffee before I posted. I fully agree with you, Sandra B.
Oh, dear! I just googled this, and it looks very bad. This is the first I've heard about it.
? Not sure what "this" is, kdsherpa. If Clyburn, I heard only a distant signal and had to search it too. An oddly ignored story.
Sorry! I was referring to Biden's "Where's Jackie?" comment. Sad to say, this will feed the pugs for sure.
That happened a few months ago. I dearly wish that if Biden is unwilling to step aside he'd at least give Kamala a plum face-saving appointment and add a vp with substantial credentials, foreign and domestic. I have nothing against K., other than thinking she's a loser nationally. Now Joe has named as his campaign manager the manager of K.'s failed presidential campaign. I never did, never will understand him.
I was a supporter of Harris before she dropped out (early) from her campaign for President. I believe that it was her sister who managed her campaign? Or perhaps Maya was just by Kamala's side each inch of the way. Insane if he's using her person for this coming election! What happened to his own campaign manager from 2020?! Your suggestion is brilliant: since Kamala appears to be a drag on Biden's presidency, give her a fabulous appointment in his next term, and have someone else who's considered a "WINNER" in Dem circles run as his VP. Now, the question is: how will this be explained during the campaign? People will jump all over him from every direction -- you're dumping a woman! you're dumping a Black person! etc., etc. Your thoughts?
Even though this situation affects all of America, I believe Californian’s should petition their Senator to step down for the betterment of the Nation.
Like that could happen.
This situation illustrates the need for a maximum age for office. You have to be a minimum age to run. I think you need a maximum age to continue in office. This is not coming from a spring chicken either. I am 69 and still working for company with no forced retirement, but I am not involved in running the country.
Age limit, no; cognitive screening, yes.
Note the news (just released via 'latimes.com'):
"Sen. Dianne Feinstein is flying back to Washington, D.C., her spokesman said, after her extended absence due to the shingles virus threatened to derail Senate Democrats' agenda.
The San Francisco Chronicle reported that Feinstein, who had been convalescing in the Bay Area since mid-February, boarded a charter private plane and could return to the Senate as early as this evening. Adam Russell, a spokesman for the Democratic senator, confirmed she is in transit to Washington but declined to comment further."
It appears Finestein is not the only one absent? There are some like Cruz who didn’t show up for his own parties vote.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/20/senate-absences-gop-democrats-00087682
Cruz is horrible and hopefully Texas will choose someone like Colin Allred.
Joseph, I disagreed, I think the Senate is very much like a damn country club. Very few minorities allowed and women are only allowed to play in the mornings/afternoon when the men are having three martini lunches. and you have to be voted in by the club board. do you know kind of like an elitist outfit?
Perhaps the Senate is a country club, but it shouldn't be.
It isn't? Senators sure treat it like it is!
Absolutely spot on!!!
Fourty (my spelling) percent minimum of Senators are millionaires, which ain't much these days ..
Are you implying that Feinstein should be detained for evaluation or for her own protection or perhaps it is appropriate for her to have a second opinion of her physical and mental competence?
Placebos have no effect, MAGA quacks are harmful to societies
Alas, it would have been the politically smart thing if RBG had resigned after her health setbacks.
Really Kerry, when would that have been? What's to say Republicans would not have done the same thing they did when Scalia died? Republicans would have forced an equally pathetic person, probably woman to replace RBG had she retired sooner, just as Trump did after Scalia, or they would have had some ridiculous reason why they would not be able to replace her due to an election, someone's vacation, or some such nonsense. Alas, Republicans have no integrity. They pride themselves on their ignorance, lie whenever they possibly can, and care as little about anyone but themselves and their donors' wishes as they can. Every one of these points is highly evident in their behavior in the past say, 40 years or so. If they really cared about this nation, McConnell would have permitted Schumer to appoint a temporary replacement for Feinstein on the Judiciary Committee, but McConnell is truly lacking in any of the virtues and is proud of that too. I do think it is time for Sen. Feinstein to retire with grace and move on to the next part of her life.
As I recall, President Obama did ask RBG to resign in 2013. She had had several bouts of cancer by then. In 2013, Democrats still had a Senate majority. It was in the 2014 election that Republicans gained a majority. So, it would have been possible to replace her with an Obama nominee.
BTW, unlike Dianne Feinstein, there was Never an issue with RBG's mental acuity, nor was she ever absent for extended periods of Court time.
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Good point RBG was intelligent up to her dying day. And kept up with her work on the Supreme Court even though she had cancer. I am sure that she was trying to hold on until Biden was sworn in. Republicans came up with a lousy excuses to jump the gun and appoint a Republican Party Conservative Supreme Court Judge before Trump lost the November Presidential Election. Dirty politics, dirty McConnell. He needs to go because HE is too old and deceitful and power hungry. But McConnell isn't voted out because he is really good at getting federal money for Kentucky. Let's see, what is that called? Who remembers?
I think that several Supreme Court Justices are going to have their goose cooked. Thomas is already in the roasting pan ready to go into the Oven. So be it.
Yep
The 2013 Senate had 53 Dems and 2 Independents who voted with Dems. At the time SCOTUS nominees could still be fillibustered, so 60 votes were needed for confirmation. If RBG had resigned and no replacement confirmed, Obergefell (marriage equality) would have been 4-4 and we'd stiill be without it. I agree with Ruth (both Sheets and Ginsburg).
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There's no guarantee that there would have been a filibuster that could not have been overridden. I think then Majority Leader Harry Reid would have made sure a successor was confirmed. And Obergefell wasn't decided until the end of the 2014-2015 term.
All speculation . . .
Changing fillibuster rules is no simple matter. More likely, the replacement would have been someone acceptable to McConnell, someone more middle-of-the-road. 10 years ago plenty of liberals opposed marriage equality and that would not have been disqualifying for a nominee.
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Yeah, Merrick Garland? OMG!
Unfortunately, this is probably what she’ll be remembered for...
I assure you, RBG will be remembered for everything she ever did. The timing of her non-resignation and death are footnotes next to a mountain of achievemnts.
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Yes, it would have been better if Ruth had resigned during Obama's Presidency. But by the time she realized her cancer had returned, it was too late and the trumpster was thrust on us. Ruth probably thought she could last until Biden took over.
Yeah. I realize it’s just 20-20 hindsight. But we all need to learn a little from history.
Exactly, RBG kept working with intelligence trying to hang on as long as possible. I respect her for her dedication.
What really burns me is that AFTER Biden won the election, Trump and his cohorts made a point of obstructing Biden and his employees from having office space, briefings on nation defence, etc, etc. Trump made it clear that, "He wasn't about to hand over the reigns of the government until he absolutely had to." That should have been a clue to watch out for the attempted obstruction of the Electorial College certification of the election results, the infamous Jan. 6th assault and insurrection by the Trump's Proud Boys, and archanists.
I agree, Diana, someone in the Federal Government should have stepped up and forced the trumpster a) to allow President-Elect Biden to be briefed, and b) to have been prepared for the insurrection. The problem was no one ever faced this problem before. 44 transfers of power have transitioned peacefully. The trumpster and all his minions knew he lost. 61 lost lawsuits should have told them, if they didn't know this. I cannot fathom why CNN is giving him FREE airtime - a whole damned hour. I had my cable disconnected because I am so fed up with all cable news. How can they support outright treason. Ok, he hasn't been indicted yet, but every person of average intelligence and above knows he committed treason. But the media moguls are so infatuated with money they don't give a rat's ass about honesty, treasonous behavior, they only care about viewers and money,. money, money. I hope nobody but the maggots watches the damned show.
Agree.
The Honorable Ruth Bader Ginsberg suffered from a common misperception: that only she could do the job to her standards. Its a position of mild to moderate narcissism, an illusion that led to a poor decision, a disservice to the nation equal to that of Sen. Feinstein's.
Hardly, IMO. Although it hasn't been discussed here, there is a lot of jockeying going on for Feinstein's seat, and I can't help but think that some people have a motive for encouraging her to sit tight.
And any of Obama's candidates would have been blocked just like Garland was. It's a damn shame McConnell still has so damn much power - even in the minority, as it were.
And BTW wasn't he just out of action for some time? Another person not likely well enough to do the job. I've been sidelined in a minor way in comparison and nobody would think of hiring me to sit on a national judicial committee, this is just privilege at play. The rules of engagement are broken and what seems obvious to the average observer is obscured by our inability to apply any objective measures to fitness. This jeopardy has been unaddressed since Reagan's second term, Nancy was horrified GOP would let him run again because he was in free fall mentally. However, I can say there are MANY unfit persons, mentally, in both chambers and SCOTUS, and there's no doubt the last POTUS should have been removed for a mental health disorder but this is a reflection of where the country is with mental health care. If you're poor they lock you up, if you're rich you get to have rockets and control enough capital to shift governments and the people and media praise your savvy. I would like to see objective mental health requirements put in place for all executive, congressional and supreme court positions but it will never happen. I would like to see Biden sit down with someone for an interview so people could see one way or another, he does better in long form and there were two interviews just prior to election where he was sharp as a tack, even on complex foreign policy stuff and I felt confident he was the person with a clue. I don't trust the everyday media to give undistorted clips, think about years of "Hillary said..." Instead of playing her actual words...
RBG was asked by President Obama twice to resign. She refused, twice. She knew she had a terminal illness and that time was not on her side. Why she chose not to do the politically expedient thing and something that would have helped keep the court more balanced is in my view about her ego.
Contrast that to Justice Kennedy who resigned within two weeks of having a meeting with Republican leaders.
RBG's legacy is now ACB.
By any chance, do you know if there's truth in the rumor that Justice Kennedy resigned on condition that the pugs not reveal some embarrassing information (don't know what it would be) about Kennedy's son? That's the word on the street. Thanks.
I have no idea about that. My point is the Republicans play hardball and the Democrats play go-fish.
I agree with you about the sorry way the Dems go about things. However, I'm curious as to whether Justice Kennedy WOULD have retired, if the pugs hadn't had "something" on him/his family. Maybe they wouldn't have tried anything?
My understanding is he did say he was going to retire in the near future and the Republican leadership got him do to it sooner than later.
Thanks for the info!
RBG was counting on Hillary winning and naming her replacement. A woman thing? Maybe?
You are very correct on this issue,Sen.Feinstien most definitely needs to step down,for the good of our country.I realize she has done many good works,which are eternally appreciated,but the clock is now ticking and time's a-wasting.We have stuff we need to get done right NOW,not weeks or months from now when that clock runs out.
Please,Senator,do your final good work and step down,so we can complete the work that now needs to be done,before it's far too late to matter.
I don’t think she’s even up to reading your plea. I think she’s THAT ILL AND OLD. NO ONE on this thread has actually seen her. Her aides are covering for her. This is an emergency.
I agree. Something is amiss.
Her aides may read it. The public is not behind her on this. I have always stood up for Nancy Pelosi, but her judgement re: this issue worries me about her as well. I'm guessing she's trying to be a friend. But she should know that a Senator is what we need, esp now.
Yeah. Her aides probably haven't finished lining up their cushy jobs. When that happens, she's outta there. Just a hunch.
One thing is common. It’s hard for me to say that whether Dianne Feinstein should resign, because I wish there was a way she could have a member of her party help her the way members of the House of Representatives helped their members who could not be on the floor of the house of representatives physically, during the first part of the pandemic. But I will say this. Republican judges are assholes and everybody’s got one!
I agree that Sen. Feinstein must resign. If she resigns now, she will be seen as doing the patriotic thing on behalf of a whole lot of people, mainly women who would be appointed to important judgeships. None of this will happen if she waits until the end of this congressional term. She will rightly be seen as the Democrat who caused Republicans to get even more power than they deserve. As Prof. Reich notes, Dems have already pretty much lost Manchin and Sinema, both of whom can't get past their money addictions to do what is right for this nation. They can keep telling themselves that they are the true patriots (as Republicans do) when they are clearly only taking care of their own personal money addictions. If Sen. Feinstein retires, she will enable the California governor to appoint someone good who will carry on her legacy of service in the Senate. That should be the way it is presented to her and her staff. Fingers crossed!
Her daughter should be able to evaluate her competence as all kids do of their parents when dimentia sets in. Normally if you dont come into work for x amount of months you get put on disability leave. If you are mentally unfit and won't be getting better retirement. Usually folks with dimentia still think they are fully capable of performing their duties. The care giver then takes over decision making for the parent. Which should happen here.
I agree that no more stress needs to be put on Senator Feinstein. She can be "retired" without making this an issue for her. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
Not sure what you mean by "additional stress" on Feinstein and her family. Would you explain? Thanks!
I guess I don't see a rush, in this situation. And that appears to be the problem.
Perhaps asking Feinstein to retire opens the flood gates to asking the other -male- senators to retire for the good of the country also.
MLRGRMI, yes, there are a lot of older senators but there are a bunch of Republicans who are not quite as old who are not as aware as they need to be. Age is not really the issue with Sen. Feinstein. It's her health and ability to be sufficiently aware to perform the duties of a senator on important committees that is the problem here. It truly is time for her to retire. I would like to see the CA governor check out the situation in person to see what could be done.
Ruth, thank you, you make a good point. Have you felt for the past few years that Feinstein has changed? I have. I cannot site specific moments, but I have had this feeling watching her interactions with republicans for the past few years. Something felt “off”. I remember saying to myself after one incident: “Has Feinstein been captured?” Knowing her past formidable strength and savvy as a senate player, she just seemed “different”. What are your thoughts?
MLRGRMI, I, too have felt Sen. Feinstein is different lately. She used to be a forceful voice in the senate. I mean that literally. Lately she hardly speaks and does not always seem on top of the subjects she is dealing with. That is from an outsider, not from California where people are more aware of Sen. Feinstein's situation. It has made me sad, but sure she should retire in honor so she can move on and the Senate can too.
I wish we could send you, Ruth.
I think that's fair, Newsome would not be outside his box by being proactive and inserting himself here. What would Kamala say? Probably step down and let us put someone in through state executive who can make it through the next election and keep the boat afloat.
With ALL due respect to her career, the very fact that Dianne Feinstein is not resigning on her own volition, holding up such crucial work in Congress, is proof itself of cognitive impairment whereby the country and the principles she has worked for all her life do not take precedence over her dogged self absorption in holding on to such an uncertain and tenuous future where she could ever again be of any help whatsoever, never mind the present urgent need for someone with full capacity, except as she can behind the scenes as a retired person. Who is it in the country and in her life that can convince her of it? A formal group appeal? Her family? Help!
There comes a point I wouldnt blame her for whatever decision she wants to make. If shes not mentally capable of taking care of herself physically. Ie doesnt remember to take her pills, doesnt pay the bills etc. She has already abrogated her ability to make decisions for herself. Start the whole power of attorney, living will health care proxy and then retire her gently. If she is in an altered mental state my sympathies for whoever tries to do that.
Right now, California, the 5th largest economy in the world is represented by 1 senator while the other 49 states are represented by 2. For the good of the state and our country Sen Feinstein must step down NOW!
It’s very sad to see a once respected and competent woman completely destroy her legacy. Does she have any idea of the harm she is doing to America now? Doesn’t she care? Whose side is she actually on? Is her stubbornness to cling to power because of ego or dementia? In these past few years, it’s become so apparent that we can’t take anything for granted. I used to think naively that politicians who are corrupt or harming democracy would be kicked out. Why do we have to wait, hoping that they will voluntarily resign?
I do not believe she does have any idea of what is happening and she is not serving her constituents, me included I Quit thinking she did back when she commended Lindsey Graham on the wonderful way he managed .... it appears that who ever is calling the shots does not think that she should resign. Maybe the same people who threatened to out her and her spouse on business dealings are involved. SHE NEEDS TO RESIGN NOW. Her unwillingness to do so requires that she be subject to an evaluation of her capacity to serve. She did many good and courageous things; but, that is in the past. Now is a very critical time. THIS specific situation is not about sexism, though many, many other issues are, not by a long shot and it is grating for Pelosi to use it now.
I think it's her ego that's preventing her from accepting that it's time for her to retire.
No, I think she’s THAT incapacitated. Think about it. She’s ILL. She’s OLD. Her aides are covering for her. We don’t see her anymore.. This is an emergency, not a display of narcissism.
I have never viewed Feinstein as narcissistic. You have to be ambitious to be in the senate, but she never struck me as ego-driven or vain like so many other male senators. However, in the last few years, I have noticed concerning behavior that led me to question her independence. It struck me as her being compromised or captured. I cannot define this very well, but it has been with me for two years. And now that she is missing critical judiciary votes, my alarm is heightened. In her prime she would have understood the crisis we face in the judiciary capture by the far-right. So I can only conclude that she is either cognitively declining, or captured and intentionally f*cking things up. Either way, we have a crisis.
Who could capture her, Trump? No, it has to be cognitive decline with a dose of poor health. We all may have her buried by the end of this day if this discussion continues and grows.
It is hard to admit, as one ages, that certain things must be set aside because life is winding down. Think an elderly parent who doesn't want to give up the car keys because that means they are giving up their independence. A military service member would be medically discharged because they couldn't perform the duties required. Same with Senator Feinstein.
Do her aides lose their jobs when she resigns?
I have no real idea, but think if you had an aging relative in charge of something important and they disappeared from view . Wouldn’t it set off alarms? Her aides can find other employment…..
I meant maybe they are delaying until they find another job.
If so, they are betraying our country. Where is her daughter, or grandchildren? -- SOMEONE to step in -- is my question.
Gloria, I'm thinking along the same lines. Those enabling her do NOT want to give up their jobs, be the reason money, connections to power and influence, or whatever else it may be.
Feinstein is waiting for her physicians to release her for travel according to the news. Shingles is very painful. Could she have become medication dependent? Who are her healthcare providers?
Just like RBG
Not so.
How can you believe that someone you describe as essentially incapacitated still has the strong will and ability to perform "stubbornness", and falsify her "corrupt" intentions?
If she's suffering from dementia it's unlikely she is aware of any of this regardless of what she says or how she appears, think Reagan who always looked good and sounded ok but was not there. That's the point of dementia, and personality disorders, people are literally unaware of the reality before them. It's not really a choice if she isn't being guided properly by those caring for her.
i agree 1000%. feinstein has demonstrated over the past 6 or so months that she is completely incapable of doing her job on behalf of the people who elected her. her positions of powers (especially on the judiciary committee) and her inability to perform AT ALL at this crucial time politically are outraging to those who wish to step up and do the work.
GrrlScientist ; I wonder if her constituents could let her know of their concern? Maybe they have. If she can't do her job at a time like this, when the judiciary is so compromised, it is concerning.
my guess? her constituents have made their position clear, loudly.
I would hope some outreach has been made to her caregivers. Whoever they are something is amiss.
I share your concern, Professor Reich, For the good of the Country, the State, the party and most of all, the Judiciary Branch of Government, Dianne Feinstein needs to step down and she needs to do it now. I admit, I have not been an admirer of Senator Feinstein since 2002 when I emailed her and asked her to vote against the Iraqi war, and she emailed back saying she knew things I didn't and was voting in favor of the war. However I continued to vote for her. If she digs in her heels and hangs on until 2024, it may be too late. We have several really good people ready to step in to replace her. All are young, healthy, and progressive. Three particularly stand out, Katie Porter, Adam Schiff, and Ro Khanna. I will happily support any of the three. Right now I am supporting Katie Porter, but I will support any of thee three. Please, Dianne, step aside and allow someone to do the necessary work.
Who can talk to her and her family?
Senator Alex Padilla. Governor Gavin Newsom, the DNC the California Democratic House caucus. I've emailed Alex Padilla once, it's time to contact him again and also the Governor
Done, done, and I also emailed Dianne Feinstein. She has been a good Senator for 30+ years. Hopefully someone will convince her to step aside.
Katie Porter is great, she would be a terrific fit...she's very engaged, understands practical matters, speaks truth to power, is capable of gathering facts and evaluating complex situations and then speaking plainly about them to constituents. 👍
I thought Khanna was managing Barbara Lee's campaign. At least I got an email saying he was.
Could be. I haven't heard
I propose a mandatory cognitive battery of tests conducted for every member of congress as well as the President/VP and Supreme Court justices once every two years after the age of 65.
To be conducted in order to remain in their place of power.
Why after 65? I think we need higher standards for elected officials at every age.
Morgaine, I would like to see a test on our Constitution given to every candidate running for office at any level. Perhaps the test used for prospective citizens to the US would be a good screening device, taken before the election. Maybe it could be given with a few changes each time they take the oath of office. Then their scores should be broadcast. That would address the mental competence issues too without psychologists and other outsiders involved.
That's an interesting idea. People who apply for citizenship have to know the 'values' but so many elected officials obviously haven't a clue, they've been reading party cliff notes as a sub for actually intelligence or applied study of civics or government. Have Jamie Raskin write up the test. Every public servant should at least be able to pass the citizenship test before serving. Hmm.
I see you've given this some thought. Agreeeee!
With the intention of running for office.
There’s more vetting for getting a driver’s license than becoming part of Congress!
Or adopting a dog at the spca, think George Santos...
While I agree, I’m specifically talking about the members who meet what used to be considered the usual retirement age for Americans. Too many people in politics stay for too long and if they can’t do the job then they need to go.
As for higher standards for everyone else, absolutely, but until you get the massive amounts of power and money out of politics it’s unlikely to happen.
I would guess that a quarter or more of legislators couldn't pass. I agree on tougher srandards to run for office. They (all) should be able to pass the test required for citizenship.
Yes! The standard citizenship test would take out a significant block of idiots and make room for competent representatives. I've heard people say it smacks of "Jim Crow" tactics, but the standard for serving in Congress or as President was written with the assumption that the choice would be made among white men of letters with land and public influence. If we want a truly plural society, we have to have some standards for public service that go beyond age and who has the richest donors. You have to take a Civil Service exam to get a low-paying civilian position with the government, but none for Congress? It's ridiculous.
Derek, it sounds like a good idea to have cognitive testing for people over 65, but which tests, who does the testing? How do we keep politics out of this as it has infected nearly everything else. Look at Trump's 5 words craziness. Sen. Feinstein's situation is different in that it is supposedly medical. That should be able to be checked out. Perhaps the Governor of CA should do more inquiries, even meet with Sen. Feinstein to get a true sense of what is going on with her. His office could release a report on her condition. It is important that CA have a second Senator now, not at some indeterminant time in the future!
The only solution I could think of is to bring in an independent physician who has no skin in the game. Nigh on impossible I know but I don’t know of a better way currently.
They'd cheat just like they do at damn near everything else !!!
Agree. No timeline works for everybody. Age limit, no; cognitive screening, yes.
Because this procedure would not single anyone out, I think it is a terrific idea!
Disclaimer. I am seventy six and dislike this idea.
I’m 72 and I think we need more vetting for anyone intending to run for office.
I couldn't agree more, Dr. Reich.
And I've signed quite a few online petitions asking her to resign.
Furthermore, Nancy Pelosi is not doing the nation or the democratic party any good by attributing calls for Feinstein's much-needed resignation to sexist bias, which is not the case in this matter.
The general election is next year, and the fascistic forces working to install an autocratic leader in the White House are working on all cylinders from the radical right-wing scotus "justices," to fascist christians, to the increasing authoritarianism of red state politicians.
Senator Feinstein must resign.
I find myself equally alarmed, because of this, but also because it's cropping up all over the place. There seems to be a concerted effort to bring down the government, the way it's done under fascist order. Running up the national debt is one of the things fascists do to get the State closer to toppling over. The republicans are now way past the work that had to be done in that department. The Trump tax cut was the whipping cream topped with a cherry. Kevin McCarthy could be bringing it down—by design. I notice many warnings by people in Washington who are closest to power—all of them are focused on this lately, that it could happen. Laurence Tribe is urging Biden on television, what he must do to prevent this coming debacle. Reagan was the one who brought about, "Starve the Beast!" and they've never stopped doing it. On the bright side, I remember when Biden declared his love for his adopted son, Barack O'Bama, using the word, "spine," as in, "he's no spineless wimp." Knowing what I know, the Irish are the proudest-to-be-stubborn-to-the-end, on the planet. In this stand-off, the Scotsman will lose. (I'm only talking culture here, not DNA.)
Adam Schiff should be her replacement.
Judges In America
I was taught by my parents and my teachers that JUDGES were and are held to higher standards the regular people. They have mandatory requirements they must meet like being impartial, being honorable, having a stellar reputation and leading by example. As Americans we can probably count on one hand how many impartial Judges there are!
Certain members of our SCOTUS need to look up the definition of the word HONORABLE. Why? Because they are NOT!! The definition I found was the following: honorable and impartial service to one's nation, a person of high respect as that shown for special merit; recognition or esteem.
Or how about the definition of being corrupt: Marked by immorality and perversion; Venal or dishonest.
You are supposed to be Role Models for the rest of us!
It's rather ironic that a corrupted judiciary is judging others.
More than ironic! Dastardly! Evil! Cruel!
I’ve been told by the Australian human rights commission that magistrate’s and judges are immuned from prosecution and can make any decisions that they like and not held accountable for their actions and I’ve got all the evidence of magistrate’s breaking other magistrate’s court orders and magistrate’s breaking their own court orders and a lot more evidence of corruption by the Australian judicial system
And check out my post above: incompetence or inability to function as required ought to lead to either resignation or removal, whatever your branch of government or gender.
The same can be said about Catholic Priests
I admire and respect the work of both Pelosi and Feinstein (and am a constituent of them both).
Pelosi's allusion to the pass that has been given to male senators with similar health issues does point to unequal treatment, though i don't believe any senator should be given such a pass. But, as you clearly point out, we are in a political crisis with the judiciary that endangers our democracy, and we can not afford to indulge a senator whose absence is blocking the confirmation of Biden's nominees. Feinstein's comment that she is not holding anything up, that the nominees will all be cleared as soon as she returns (whenever that may be, she does not say), and her failure to grasp the danger at hand, show that her once very sharp mind is sadly compromised. She cannot see that she must retire. We need an intervention here! Schumer? Feinstein family members? Someone(s) must help her to leave, ASAP.
Several years ago a video posted to Twitter showed Senator Feinstein talking down to some students and their teachers regarding the Green New Deal. There they were in all their eager excitement, a group of students, young constituents maybe 11 or 12 years old, dropping off posters they had made and/or a petition or letters signed by all in their classes explaining why they hoped she would support the Green New Deal. It would have been so easy for her to thank them for their work and interest, and tell them she and her staff would review their work, as well as the legislation, and seriously consider their request. Even if she never intended to support it, what harm would it have caused if she said something that would keep them excited about being involved and fighting for what they believe is best for our world? But she didn't do that. She immediately said she couldn't support it and when they protested with excited but level-headed comments, she spoke over them, saying they were young and she had experience that they didn't have and she knew better than they did because she had been working at her job for so long. After a teacher made a comment, she told the teacher, "Then you should run for the Senate." The children looked immensely disappointed and I was so flabbergasted by her behavior that I was literally embarrassed for her.
Don't we want young people involved in what is negatively affecting our society and our world? In my opinion, she effectively told those children that they don't deserve to have a voice if she doesn't agree with it, and that if they dared to have a voice she didn't agree with, she wouldn't consider it because she "knew better." She was their US senator and she dissed and dismissed them. It was a golden opportunity to encourage their involvement in issues at their young ages and she blew it because she "knew better."
The Professor is correct...Senator Feinstein needs to resign. Right now she is thinking only about herself and not about her constituents or her Democrat colleagues in the Senate. It is rather selfish behavior, imo.
This is heartbreaking and infuriating all at once.
You got it,
Whoa! She has stayed WAAAY past her time. Very sad. Very dangerous! 😪
WOW! That's sickening!!
You are correct. Aging is a fragile process that is not linear, yet if we are blessed to live long enough will face its challenges. I have retired from fulltime work, in part, to set aside for younger leaders to emerge. Governmental leaders are no different. You are also correct about age limits; one measure does not fit all. Senator Feinstein needs to resign from all indications and should not have to be told to do so....those around her should convince her to do so, now.
Senator Feinstein may not even be able to comprehend enough to recognize that she is a senator. She must be ordered to have a competency test. It seems that her handlers don’t want to let go of power. It’s disgraceful, she has destroyed her legacy.