I’ve known Senator Dianne Feinstein for many years. It’s time for her to step down. I say this with great sadness — as one of her friends, one of her admirers, one of her constituents, and as someone who cares (as I’m sure she does) about the future of America.
The Senate is not a damn country club; Feinstein is not entitled to this absence! If she cannot do her job, she must do the honorable act of stepping down. Her legacy? NO! We need a functioning judiciary!!!
Shingles can be prevented with the Shingrix vaccine. It is well known, unless you have dementia and don’t opt to get the vaccine to protect yourself. If you can’t even make this logical decision, which is in your best interest, how can you make crucial decisions that will ultimately affect our entire country?
I highly respected Senator Feinstein but she has a duty to the American people that is not being attended to. She needs to be asked to resign now for the sake of our democracy.
Marlo- According to the CDC, the Shingrix vaccine is more than 90% effective, and provides "immunity stays strong for at least the first 7 years after vaccination."
Perhaps she was negligent, but I am unaware of her vaccine status. I would take your point even further; if the issue were that she was struck by lightening (through no fault of her own), she still should resign because her selfish vanity is petty compared to the damage she is doing to the country. RBG similarly chose selfishly, and it cost all of us. What galls me are the enablers like Gillibrand (For whom I voted, by the way), who support her "right" to leave when she chooses, as if she has earned the "right" to allow horrific consequences for the rest of us while she recovers. This is a perverse perspective.
Yes, RBG tarnished her legacy by not putting the country ahead of her misguided ego (or something!), and the country will suffer for her selfishness for many decades, perhaps longer than her legacy. Sad ending to an amazing career.
There is a time to recognize when the baton should be past. RBG refused to recognize this. However, given what Moscow Mitch did with Garland's nomination, there is no way to know if he would have stolen the seat RBG held. I don't think the founders ever envisioned a situation like McConnell created upon the death of Scalia.
Moscow Mitch DID steal the seat RBG had on SCOTUS by ramming through Barrett right at election time though he said that couldn't be done by Dems several months before an election. I wish more people would challenge GQP hypocrisy.
Even though I’m not a great believer, certainly an act of Providence was Scalia’s departure. we could certainly use a few more of those situation’s. Call them timely/untimely deaths. sorry about the morbidity, but I’m tired of this crap.
Let’s walk this back a bit - yes, RGB could have retired during Obama’s tenure, allowing him to select her replacement and assuming Mitch didn’t interfere. But as a female Justice, I am guessing she, like so many of us, thought that Hillary Clinton would be the next and first female President and perhaps wanted to have her select her replacement. There is no way should could have known trump would take that away from all of us. And she hung on as long as she could physically. Can we stop Monday morning quarterbacking RBG? The villain is all this SCOTUS mess is the evil and aged Mitch McConnell. I pray for karma.
Although I respect your point of view, I agree with JennSH on RBG and Feinstein. It may be that RBG thought HRC would be the next President, but to think is different than to know for sure. Obama was a Democratic President who would pick a progressive Justice who protected people's rights, possibly the same Justice HRC would have chosen. Had RBG stepped down earlier, when the numbers worked to seat someone more progressive to SCOTUS without opposition games, progressive Justices aren't outnumbered by Opus Dei subscribers on the highest court. In addition to the Republicans inventing new obstructionist policies out of whole cloth to get their way, they make sure to use numerical advantage whenever they have it. Democrats often don't. They usually fail to move with urgency in matters like these, depend too much on hopeful polling projections and keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
It is fine to be optimistic but pragmatism, when the legislature is so thinly sliced from term to term, is absolutely necessary. Senator Feinstein, for whatever reasons motivate her, resists stepping down to allow Governor Newsom to name another suitable Democrat to fill the role and get progressive judges installed in the court pipeline. They are needed to counterbalance the many lunatic idealogues, like Judge Kacsmaryk of NDTX, already stuffed into the Federal judiciary when Republicans had their chance. She plans not to run in 2024 but suppose her seat going to another Democrat isn't a given? No one forecast a thrice divorced, four-time bankrupt property developer and classless reality star winning the Republican nomination and then the Presidency in 2020. No one expected Coakley to lose to Brown for the Kennedy seat in MA either. There could just as surprisingly be a some dark horse waiting in CA. Democrats and the nation itself cannot afford to take that chance.
All excellent points but then I believe she would have had to resign in Obama’s first term when the Dems still had the Senate. We had just elected the first Black man to the Presidency. We had passed the Affordable Care Act. We had dug out of the recession caused by Wall Street greed. Things looked pretty good. To really analyze this we would have to also review what cases were before the court. Perhaps this lesson from the RBG situation is the one that Feinstein needs to learn.
In my opinion, RBG had so many and serious health issues, that she was covered by Federal Health care. If she had retired, it would have cost her tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in premiums and copays
There is a part of me that really wants to let this comment pass but the other part of me just can’t do it. Are you seriously suggesting the RBG wasn’t retiring because she didn’t want to pay health insurance and copays? Have you read anything about the person she was? And this article from 2012 basically says that federal employees heath insurance is basically equivalent to the good benefits offered by large corporations who are able to negotiate coverage and fees due to the numbers of people enrolled.
Everybody’s worried about their legacy. why did these people care they’ll be dead. There’s an old saying,” when you’re dead, you’re a dead pecker head”.
Yes, good point. Franken didn't get an investigation nor a hearing. The Dems only had 47 during Doug Jones' term and then Alabama sent Tuberville, who couldn't name the 3 branches of governmen. And now, Franken is not in the Senate Judiciary committee.
Oh wow, I was SO UPSET when he did that! They were ready to have an a hearing. The accusation was so flimsy, I thought he had a good chance of being exonerated but he decided to leave. The Democratic Party treated him terribly.
The image the incident was based upon was clearly photoshopped. The focus and light source were different in the image of Franken and the background image.
Pressured into it by the holier than thou caucus in the Democratic party. They are willing to lose control of the senate and house to the fasscists because of some peccadillo on the part of a member, whereas Republicans gave Senator Vitter, a standing ovation after he was investigated for frequenting the DC Madam, and SC elects adulterers, rapists, perjurers, racists to office without embarrassment.
Too much influence by the political correct Gen Z and Millienals, to the total detriment of Democracy.
Franken resigned under pressure by his own Democratic Party. Now he regrets it. Furthermore, “ Now, seven of the 36 Democrats who demanded he resign say they regret it.” ~ BBC
Women who are sexually assaulted never (close to never) get a hearing or investigation. Franken is one man who indulged in some creepy behavior and was one of the rare indulgers who was caught. Things don't seem to get cleaned up evenly. Occasionally, rarely, when a man has done what so many have done, one gets caught here and there. I am not sorry that Franken was exposed and disappeared. And it is creepy to see him creeping his way right back into the public eye as if nothing happened. Gillibrand is a reliable Feminist who seizes every opportunity to even the playing field which is still a very slippery slope. Dianne Feinstein's demise has been confusing, and hadn't been as clear as it has become as we lose more time to confirm nominees. I am sorry to see anyone accusing Gillibrand of anything other than standing up for women.
Franken was fabulous! I miss having him in the Senate. His actions were misunderstood and taken out of context. I normally like Gillibrand, but she was wrong to demonize Franken.
The Franken incident was completely overblown. Now we're missing a good senator and communicator. Face palm! Sometimes Dems get in their own way. I've never been a Gillibrand fan because she seems self-serving in the extreme.
Progressives and Democrats suffer from a debilitating disease that's ill-fitted to politics: a conscience. Republicans are immune to their own hypocrisy, while we stand around in circular firing squads seeking moral purity, our biggest fault that we assume the GOP will play by the rules. Which they haven't done since Ike.
Gillibrand evens the playing field to the detriment of her party and democracy, Because of the Jihad mentality, Republicans, the party of fascism, has taken virtual control of the government, while (at present) they can't pass laws, they can put a strangle hold, like threatening a default on the nations credit, causing fear world wide, and a possible world wide depression, not to Mennonite the international community abandoning the dollar for the Yuan, and some have already done so.
For me, the distinction between Senator Feinstein and Justice Ginsburg is that the former is cognitively impaired and the latter was still very sharp. I suspect she was waiting for Hillary Clinton to appoint her replacement, but we all know how that worked out.
My opinon is that she held out for pecuniary reasons. He had the most excellent health care while in office,including priority treatment at Walter Reed.
She would have had to pay more if she retired, and not have access to Walter Reed.
I don't understand why people are against a bill forcing people to retire at say 70. Maybe someone can explain the rationale behind that position. Most people I know are happy to retire.
I don't think so. A lot of people are dead before 65. Most of my high school friends died before 2000. Nothing in life is fair, but I still believe in imposing a forced retirement age for the obvious reasons, especially because our children and grandchildren have probably had more than enough of our rules and regulations. We should be decent enough to pass the country on to them.
I agree- make room for younger generations with fresh ideas. The elders can be advisors to the young. A multigenerational congress would better reflect the country.
Due to increased longevity and health in later years and in some cases labor shortages the age of full retirement and pensioning is under pressure to increase. Setting that arbitrary limit on public service contradicts the other efforts
I understand that. I highly disagree with it. We've had age limits on most everything for as long as I've been alive and this should not be an exception. I have to have my eyes examined every year to keep driving starting three years ago. There are other age restrictions on things. If 70 is too young, then make it some other age. I don't really think the country's decisions should be made by old folks even though I'm one. It's really no longer going to be their country. I'm all in for age limits.
There is an income reduction after retirement, . Medicare is not free, currently it costs $194.90 a month deducted from Social Security or if you retired under a SS replacement plan, from you checking account. If you have a mortgage, a car loan, or cosigned a grandchild's student loan, you have to keep working.
Most folk don't have a personal retirement plan, simply because they couldn't afford one during their working years.
Lucky are those that are in good enough health to work after 65 much less 70.
The Supreme Court is 6 to 3 so Bader Ginsburg would’ve only made it 5 to 4. i’m pretty sure that majority rules. Except in presidential elections. Yeah I know that doesn’t make any sense. But what the hell doesn’t this country?
Yes, 5 conservatives on the court would still be a majority, but occasionally one will stray. As it is now, it is rare for 2 of the 6 to vote in any way which doesn't preserve power for rich people and taking away rights and protections of vulnerable people.
Agree. "Selfish vanity" describes neither the justice nor the senator. These are archaic terms formerly used to put women in their place—guilt-ridden shame. If Feinstein is cognitively muddled, this is not selfish vanity. If Ginsburg was optimistic, this was not selfish vanity. Who first used that term in this discussion, anyway? The term "selfish vanity" should be retired with the rest of the mid-20th Century. Sen. Diane Feinstein should be offered a letter of resignation to sign, by someone who deeply respects and loves her.
Geezus, why do people personalize such stuff. Vanity and ego are applicable to men. for instance Mitch McConnell, Biden and half or more of the Congress.
There is a portion of the population that personalizes everything and reflexively become defensive, from gun owners, religious to render, race and LGBT.
And all they are doing is giving the enemies of democracy, the fascists, ammunition resupply.
Let's stick with valid complaints and remedies, not crap that offends someones easily wounded sensibilities.
Your original comment prompted my reply which is lost somewhere in the thread because I am inept with this form of communication. You accused the Senator of selfish vanity, made some other derogatory, speculative comments and then took aim at the late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg which prompted me to reply. Your misogyny is repellant.
Now that you have clarified, your assumptions are presumptuous and narrow-minded. I did not make this about their gender, you did. I have no issue with their gender, nor did I write anything of the sort; my comments are about their choices to remain in power at the expense of the rest of us.
Actually, for someone of Senator Feinstein's age, shingles does take a long time to resolve. My mother had shingles in her late 80's. She was miserable and in pain for months. After the rash went away, the nerve pain remained. My now 86 yr. old aunt had shingles several years ago. That case greatly increased her frailty because the pain lingered for months. For the elderly, shingles is no joke. Sadly, this situation has likely rendered the senator disabled. She should resign NOW!
The Shingrix vaccine has been available for at least 6 years and I don't know why your family didn't take advantage or that smart optioin. Could you tell us?
Shingrix has nasty side effects- most notably Guillian Barre syndrome. Some people don’t want to gamble with paralysis. My PCP has advised me to not get it- which means at least 1 of her patients was harmed by taking it.
Celeste K: It depends on how severe a case one has. Complications can include pneumonia and even encephalitis. Nonetheless, she should resign. No argument.
Some people who have had shingles do have a lingering problem with nerve pain which is often described as excruciating. I recall reading some years back that "post-herpetic nerve pain" that followed the active outbreak of shingles, when it did not go away, often drove sufferers to suicide, it was so relentlessly painful. Here is something from Mayo Clinic:
Postherpetic neuralgia - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic
Feb 10, 2023 It causes a burning pain in nerves and skin. The pain lasts long after the rash and blisters of shingles go away. The risk of postherpetic neuralgia rises with age. It mainly affects people older than 60. There's no cure, but treatments can ease symptoms. For most people, postherpetic neuralgia gets better over time.
I stand corrected regarding the length of time that shingles effects a person. I have never had the experience of following any of my patients for the long term after the initial recovery of the contagious rash and blisters. It makes sense that Ms. Feinstein is still feeling the effects of this disease.
It makes it clear, however, that she is not able to return to the Senate to perform her duties. It is important that she step down and allow another to continue in her place.
That being the case it is all about the money. An a member of congress gets full service and access to the best medical care available. When retired both are reduced and the burden falls on the family.
Mario and Joseph Lawson: According to one of the official gov med sites:
"Who should not receive zoster vaccine? Zoster vaccine should not be given to people who are immunocompromised, pregnant women, or those who have previously had anaphylaxis to the vaccine (either Zostavax or varicella vaccine) or its components (including gelatin or neomycin)."
Not to be presumptuous, but I think we can assume the Senator is not pregnant. We have no knowledge re: her personal medical history, so whether or not she should have been vaccinated (and who knows -- maybe she was and for some reason it didn't take) is totally beside the point.
She should resign for the good of the country -- like yesterday!!
Also immuno compromised and I am in remission from cancer, and had pneumonia after my 1st treatment of Keytruda in 2017. And am allergic to the neo in neosporin
and the neo in neomycin which is a component of Shingrix, but I also carry my Epipen (bee sting allergy)
William: Sounds like you're a real survivor with all your wits intact. Guess Shingrix wouldn't be the vaxx of choice in your situation, so good luck against shingles and any 'neos' lurking out there. Some people have all the luck. 🙀🙃 At least you're not pregnant.
Agree. I was just thinking since it is well known she has dementia, perhaps she either wasn’t aware of it or felt the updated Shingrix vaccine wasn’t warranted if she already had the old vaccine.
“Shingrix is more than 90% effective at PREVENTING shingles and PHN. Immunity stays strong for at least the first 7 years after vaccination.” From CDC.gov
Perhaps your friend only received the old shingles vaccine which only was 51% effective in preventing shingles. Many are under the incorrect assumption that they don’t need the newer Shingrix vaccine because they were already vaccinated. This is a terrible assumption due to Shingrix being much more successful (90%) in the prevention of this painful, blistering disease. It is perfectly fine and recommended to get this additional vaccine. I did.
As someone who had both shots of the Shingrix vaccine just two years ago, and is currently afflicted with a case of internal shingles, I understood that the vaccine only reduces your chances for shingles and PHN (post shingles nerve pain) but does not eliminate the possibility you will get it. For those that do get Shingles despite getting the Shingrix vaccination, the vaccine is known to reduce the severity and duration of the it. Speaking from first-hand experience as a relatively young and healthy (not immuno-compromised) person vaccinated with Shingrix, the pain from internal shingles is intense, I can't imagine what the pain is like without the vaccine.
Isn't the question of why she hadn't been vaccinated with Shingrix (or had allowed her immunity to lapse) a question for her doctor? Unless more information is forthcoming, the rest is speculation - and probably a bit unfair as such...
With all due respect for your point about Shingrix shingles vaccine, the broader political point is not about that vaccine, its efficacy, Diane Feinstein's vaccination status or the severity of her shingles outbreak. The political point is her protracted absence from her duties as a Senator and the effect of her absence from the Judiciary Committee on judicial appointments.
Mitch McConnell whose craven list of "Things To Do" has two major things on it:
Get right-wing, Federalist Society, regressive judges appointed while blocking any and all Democratic nominated or approved judges;
Block everything and everybody proposed by Democrats.
Mitch fancies himself President because he controls the country without ever having to actually run for that office, knowing he had no chance ever to be elected outside of Kentucky. Kentucky should never have elected him because he has little to no interest, concern or connection to Kentucky, but that state has inflicted Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul and Thomas Massie on all of America. Mitch's ego has a different character to Diane Feinstein's; he got himself out of the hospital, out of rehab ( ALL AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE, NO DOUBT!!!) and back in the Senate to take up his poison mantle of undermining America's progress and decency. He is a duplicitous, dishonest, manipulative operator, but a cunning one all the same. He got himself back in the Senate and back to his version of "work."
Diane Feinstein may harbor some belief that she can and will come back and be able to do the work, but her declining health has been apparent, even before the revelation of her having shingles. She has been absent since January, I think, and it is not a job where "co-workers" can take up the slack. She has been absent too long already and needs to resign.
Charles "Chuck" Grassley is another one who should not have run again, should have retired (long ago!) but he is very, very full of his own sense of importance and so America suffers for his selfishness.
Professor/Secretary Reich called it a "gerontracy" and it does have that appearance. It might be more acceptable if those old ones were wise sages, great fonts of wisdom, with minds and mouths still vibrant and enlightening, but they are not.
And note to Professor/Secretary Reich: you certainly don't need to be told this, but I'll say it anyway: it was the vile, despicable Strom Thurmond who was a very, very small imitation of a man - his disgusting dyed-red hair, his nonsensical (and worse) verbiage, his outrageous hypocrisy, his lifetime of cruelty that some wanted to exonerate towards the end of his life..... No, sir, he would never measure up to a good man.
I also think it’s a pretty big leap to assume she didn’t get the vaccine. Unless you know her personally or she has made a public statement to the contrary.
It’s like birth control; you can still get pregnant, but unlikely.
Unless you only received the older shingles vaccine, Zostavax which was only 51% effective. (You can still get the Shingrix vaccine which is 90% effective in the prevention of shingles).
I don’t know her health status, other than she’s 89. It’s safe to assume there’s some compromised immunity at that age that also might impact ones’ decision to receive any vaccine. Only her doctor can advise her on that. The ‘I got it, so everyone else can’ is not sound medical advice, sorry.
So was COVID a debilitating illness and there were those who were advised to not take the vaccine(s). By the CDC., for Pete’s sake. I’d bet there’d be a disclaimer on the website about consulting ones’ own health care provider. But hey, why bother, when they can just ask you?
Shingrix has neomycin as a component. I am allergic to the neo as in neosporin (I use polysporing as a replacement) also allergic to bee stings so carry an Epipen. Any thoughts as to what Shingrix will do, I would rather use my Epipen than have shingles. I had a shingles shot back in 2009 (I think, just a guess, can't remember the date)
I got Zostavax and later had an itchy rash on my chest that was worse than the miliaria that I often got in summer. When I noticed the whelps in lines like with herpes & went to the Dr. it was treated with an anti-viral med. Other than itchy discomfort it wasn't as devastating as what ppl describe as Shingles. So the vaccine probably helped a bit.
Zostervax was the old vaccine. Shingrix is much more effective including for people over 70. I was a medical social worker and geriatric care mgr.
Once you've seen the suffering of shingles victims you know you never want to go through that experience and you pay attention for available vaccines. I had them both and it is highly recommended that you go for Shingrix despite having had the less effective Zostervax.
Sorry to disillusion you, but you can still get shingles after receiving the vaccine. I know a gentleman who is vaccinated and still got shingles. It might be rare, but it does happen.
My mom had shingles at age 90. They gave her medication and it was gone quickly so though i know each person has different issues, there should be legislation that doesn’t allow unending service on these committees. I mean a Nevada county voted for a Republican dead pimp and Republicans were able to replace the person after the election was over. How is this different? She should at least be able to appoint someone for the duration of her term?
Agree, but what if she is incapable of resigning due to health reasons, such as dementia or she's in a coma? If a member of Congress becomes incapacitated, there is no legal avenue to replace that person. This is a larger issue that needs to be addressed!
I think a Constitutional Amendment is needed in the long term to address this concern. In the short term, I think we are stuck if she is incapable of resigning. It takes a 2/3rds vote in the Senate to expel her, so the Republicans can block this, and she hasn't done anything to justify expulsion under present Senate rules.
I just read & posted the link to where she’s on her way back now. I am really hoping that she is coming back to bow out gracefully and allow a path forward, immediately. No one can condemn her legacy. But her legacy does not need to end in a manner that’s not within her control so while she still has it, I hope she uses it!
Nancy Pelosi's position on Feinstein, James Clyburn's shady role in keeping his seat safe and the rest of SC unsafe for other black candidates (per ProPublica), and Diane Feinstein's de facto sovereignty are compelling arguments for an age cut-off in congress. Biden's "Where's Jackie?" moment removed any doubt he should decline to run again. (Yes, I'd have been involuntarily retired years ago myself.) The U.S. desperately needs for leaders now in their prime but denied top positions to be unleashed.
That happened a few months ago. I dearly wish that if Biden is unwilling to step aside he'd at least give Kamala a plum face-saving appointment and add a vp with substantial credentials, foreign and domestic. I have nothing against K., other than thinking she's a loser nationally. Now Joe has named as his campaign manager the manager of K.'s failed presidential campaign. I never did, never will understand him.
I was a supporter of Harris before she dropped out (early) from her campaign for President. I believe that it was her sister who managed her campaign? Or perhaps Maya was just by Kamala's side each inch of the way. Insane if he's using her person for this coming election! What happened to his own campaign manager from 2020?! Your suggestion is brilliant: since Kamala appears to be a drag on Biden's presidency, give her a fabulous appointment in his next term, and have someone else who's considered a "WINNER" in Dem circles run as his VP. Now, the question is: how will this be explained during the campaign? People will jump all over him from every direction -- you're dumping a woman! you're dumping a Black person! etc., etc. Your thoughts?
Even though this situation affects all of America, I believe Californian’s should petition their Senator to step down for the betterment of the Nation.
This situation illustrates the need for a maximum age for office. You have to be a minimum age to run. I think you need a maximum age to continue in office. This is not coming from a spring chicken either. I am 69 and still working for company with no forced retirement, but I am not involved in running the country.
The Senate is not a damn country club; Feinstein is not entitled to this absence! If she cannot do her job, she must do the honorable act of stepping down. Her legacy? NO! We need a functioning judiciary!!!
Shingles can be prevented with the Shingrix vaccine. It is well known, unless you have dementia and don’t opt to get the vaccine to protect yourself. If you can’t even make this logical decision, which is in your best interest, how can you make crucial decisions that will ultimately affect our entire country?
I highly respected Senator Feinstein but she has a duty to the American people that is not being attended to. She needs to be asked to resign now for the sake of our democracy.
Marlo- According to the CDC, the Shingrix vaccine is more than 90% effective, and provides "immunity stays strong for at least the first 7 years after vaccination."
Perhaps she was negligent, but I am unaware of her vaccine status. I would take your point even further; if the issue were that she was struck by lightening (through no fault of her own), she still should resign because her selfish vanity is petty compared to the damage she is doing to the country. RBG similarly chose selfishly, and it cost all of us. What galls me are the enablers like Gillibrand (For whom I voted, by the way), who support her "right" to leave when she chooses, as if she has earned the "right" to allow horrific consequences for the rest of us while she recovers. This is a perverse perspective.
Yes, RBG tarnished her legacy by not putting the country ahead of her misguided ego (or something!), and the country will suffer for her selfishness for many decades, perhaps longer than her legacy. Sad ending to an amazing career.
There is a time to recognize when the baton should be past. RBG refused to recognize this. However, given what Moscow Mitch did with Garland's nomination, there is no way to know if he would have stolen the seat RBG held. I don't think the founders ever envisioned a situation like McConnell created upon the death of Scalia.
Moscow Mitch DID steal the seat RBG had on SCOTUS by ramming through Barrett right at election time though he said that couldn't be done by Dems several months before an election. I wish more people would challenge GQP hypocrisy.
What would it matter.? Republic clans don’t care about morals. They call it playing hardball while the Democrats are playing plastic bat Wiffleball.
RBG should have quit while Obama was in his first term.
Even though I’m not a great believer, certainly an act of Providence was Scalia’s departure. we could certainly use a few more of those situation’s. Call them timely/untimely deaths. sorry about the morbidity, but I’m tired of this crap.
Let’s walk this back a bit - yes, RGB could have retired during Obama’s tenure, allowing him to select her replacement and assuming Mitch didn’t interfere. But as a female Justice, I am guessing she, like so many of us, thought that Hillary Clinton would be the next and first female President and perhaps wanted to have her select her replacement. There is no way should could have known trump would take that away from all of us. And she hung on as long as she could physically. Can we stop Monday morning quarterbacking RBG? The villain is all this SCOTUS mess is the evil and aged Mitch McConnell. I pray for karma.
Although I respect your point of view, I agree with JennSH on RBG and Feinstein. It may be that RBG thought HRC would be the next President, but to think is different than to know for sure. Obama was a Democratic President who would pick a progressive Justice who protected people's rights, possibly the same Justice HRC would have chosen. Had RBG stepped down earlier, when the numbers worked to seat someone more progressive to SCOTUS without opposition games, progressive Justices aren't outnumbered by Opus Dei subscribers on the highest court. In addition to the Republicans inventing new obstructionist policies out of whole cloth to get their way, they make sure to use numerical advantage whenever they have it. Democrats often don't. They usually fail to move with urgency in matters like these, depend too much on hopeful polling projections and keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
It is fine to be optimistic but pragmatism, when the legislature is so thinly sliced from term to term, is absolutely necessary. Senator Feinstein, for whatever reasons motivate her, resists stepping down to allow Governor Newsom to name another suitable Democrat to fill the role and get progressive judges installed in the court pipeline. They are needed to counterbalance the many lunatic idealogues, like Judge Kacsmaryk of NDTX, already stuffed into the Federal judiciary when Republicans had their chance. She plans not to run in 2024 but suppose her seat going to another Democrat isn't a given? No one forecast a thrice divorced, four-time bankrupt property developer and classless reality star winning the Republican nomination and then the Presidency in 2020. No one expected Coakley to lose to Brown for the Kennedy seat in MA either. There could just as surprisingly be a some dark horse waiting in CA. Democrats and the nation itself cannot afford to take that chance.
All excellent points but then I believe she would have had to resign in Obama’s first term when the Dems still had the Senate. We had just elected the first Black man to the Presidency. We had passed the Affordable Care Act. We had dug out of the recession caused by Wall Street greed. Things looked pretty good. To really analyze this we would have to also review what cases were before the court. Perhaps this lesson from the RBG situation is the one that Feinstein needs to learn.
In my opinion, RBG had so many and serious health issues, that she was covered by Federal Health care. If she had retired, it would have cost her tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in premiums and copays
Read this and figure it out: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/just-ask-what-kind-of-health-benefits-do-the-supreme-court-justices-receive
There is a part of me that really wants to let this comment pass but the other part of me just can’t do it. Are you seriously suggesting the RBG wasn’t retiring because she didn’t want to pay health insurance and copays? Have you read anything about the person she was? And this article from 2012 basically says that federal employees heath insurance is basically equivalent to the good benefits offered by large corporations who are able to negotiate coverage and fees due to the numbers of people enrolled.
Everybody’s worried about their legacy. why did these people care they’ll be dead. There’s an old saying,” when you’re dead, you’re a dead pecker head”.
So much speculation, so little intellectual integrity, Dell Erwin. The shame is all yours.
Who is this dell Erwin, he is not in the article and not in the comments.
Dell Erwin may have removed his comment. He had some shame/blame for RBG (please get her initials in the correct order!)
and then he wrote "SHAME ON HER" . I couldn't let it pass.
Hmmm... Gillibrand didn't think the same about Al Franken. She led the campaign to oust him.
Yes, good point. Franken didn't get an investigation nor a hearing. The Dems only had 47 during Doug Jones' term and then Alabama sent Tuberville, who couldn't name the 3 branches of governmen. And now, Franken is not in the Senate Judiciary committee.
Didn’t Franken automatically resign without an investigation, iirc? That was a pretty shameful incident.
Oh wow, I was SO UPSET when he did that! They were ready to have an a hearing. The accusation was so flimsy, I thought he had a good chance of being exonerated but he decided to leave. The Democratic Party treated him terribly.
The image the incident was based upon was clearly photoshopped. The focus and light source were different in the image of Franken and the background image.
Pressured into it by the holier than thou caucus in the Democratic party. They are willing to lose control of the senate and house to the fasscists because of some peccadillo on the part of a member, whereas Republicans gave Senator Vitter, a standing ovation after he was investigated for frequenting the DC Madam, and SC elects adulterers, rapists, perjurers, racists to office without embarrassment.
Too much influence by the political correct Gen Z and Millienals, to the total detriment of Democracy.
Franken resigned under pressure by his own Democratic Party. Now he regrets it. Furthermore, “ Now, seven of the 36 Democrats who demanded he resign say they regret it.” ~ BBC
Focus, people. This thread isn't about Al Franken or #metoo. Feinstein needs to leave her office and make room for a successor.
Yes, I thought about that, too.
Women who are sexually assaulted never (close to never) get a hearing or investigation. Franken is one man who indulged in some creepy behavior and was one of the rare indulgers who was caught. Things don't seem to get cleaned up evenly. Occasionally, rarely, when a man has done what so many have done, one gets caught here and there. I am not sorry that Franken was exposed and disappeared. And it is creepy to see him creeping his way right back into the public eye as if nothing happened. Gillibrand is a reliable Feminist who seizes every opportunity to even the playing field which is still a very slippery slope. Dianne Feinstein's demise has been confusing, and hadn't been as clear as it has become as we lose more time to confirm nominees. I am sorry to see anyone accusing Gillibrand of anything other than standing up for women.
Franken was set up. He's a good man.
Franken was fabulous! I miss having him in the Senate. His actions were misunderstood and taken out of context. I normally like Gillibrand, but she was wrong to demonize Franken.
He was! By Roger Stone!!!
The Franken incident was completely overblown. Now we're missing a good senator and communicator. Face palm! Sometimes Dems get in their own way. I've never been a Gillibrand fan because she seems self-serving in the extreme.
Progressives and Democrats suffer from a debilitating disease that's ill-fitted to politics: a conscience. Republicans are immune to their own hypocrisy, while we stand around in circular firing squads seeking moral purity, our biggest fault that we assume the GOP will play by the rules. Which they haven't done since Ike.
It has been clear since well before her last election that Feinstein wasn't up to par mentally.
Gillibrand evens the playing field to the detriment of her party and democracy, Because of the Jihad mentality, Republicans, the party of fascism, has taken virtual control of the government, while (at present) they can't pass laws, they can put a strangle hold, like threatening a default on the nations credit, causing fear world wide, and a possible world wide depression, not to Mennonite the international community abandoning the dollar for the Yuan, and some have already done so.
For me, the distinction between Senator Feinstein and Justice Ginsburg is that the former is cognitively impaired and the latter was still very sharp. I suspect she was waiting for Hillary Clinton to appoint her replacement, but we all know how that worked out.
I also think that RBG had overcome cancer and Heaven knows what else so many times, she may have thought she could do it one more time.
She told her long-time friend Nina Totenberg that she thought she could "play hurt," as athletes do.
Then she needs to get herself to DC to do so. (Or was this some recent "confession" to Totenberg?)
Just goes to show, you can be "tack" sharp but not necessarily have good sense or judgment.
True, that.
My opinon is that she held out for pecuniary reasons. He had the most excellent health care while in office,including priority treatment at Walter Reed.
She would have had to pay more if she retired, and not have access to Walter Reed.
I don't understand why people are against a bill forcing people to retire at say 70. Maybe someone can explain the rationale behind that position. Most people I know are happy to retire.
We're all so different in our aging. Imposing a single standard is sophistry.
Sandra B
I don't think so. A lot of people are dead before 65. Most of my high school friends died before 2000. Nothing in life is fair, but I still believe in imposing a forced retirement age for the obvious reasons, especially because our children and grandchildren have probably had more than enough of our rules and regulations. We should be decent enough to pass the country on to them.
I agree- make room for younger generations with fresh ideas. The elders can be advisors to the young. A multigenerational congress would better reflect the country.
Due to increased longevity and health in later years and in some cases labor shortages the age of full retirement and pensioning is under pressure to increase. Setting that arbitrary limit on public service contradicts the other efforts
I understand that. I highly disagree with it. We've had age limits on most everything for as long as I've been alive and this should not be an exception. I have to have my eyes examined every year to keep driving starting three years ago. There are other age restrictions on things. If 70 is too young, then make it some other age. I don't really think the country's decisions should be made by old folks even though I'm one. It's really no longer going to be their country. I'm all in for age limits.
I agree! (I'm 70, and it's been a long enough "ride".)
How about a set retirement age with exceptions then?! If Feinstein was so valuable in her seat she could ask for an extension of her post.
There is an income reduction after retirement, . Medicare is not free, currently it costs $194.90 a month deducted from Social Security or if you retired under a SS replacement plan, from you checking account. If you have a mortgage, a car loan, or cosigned a grandchild's student loan, you have to keep working.
Most folk don't have a personal retirement plan, simply because they couldn't afford one during their working years.
Lucky are those that are in good enough health to work after 65 much less 70.
Lucky are those who can easily afford the $164.90, and can retire at 65. That's 194.9 reasons why we need M4All. We are being robbed.
The Supreme Court is 6 to 3 so Bader Ginsburg would’ve only made it 5 to 4. i’m pretty sure that majority rules. Except in presidential elections. Yeah I know that doesn’t make any sense. But what the hell doesn’t this country?
Yes, 5 conservatives on the court would still be a majority, but occasionally one will stray. As it is now, it is rare for 2 of the 6 to vote in any way which doesn't preserve power for rich people and taking away rights and protections of vulnerable people.
There is a possibility she has no idea if she ever had the chicken pox or not!
It’s “Marlo”
I fixed it.
My apologies, Marlo.
selfish vanity? look in the mirror Joseph Lawson!
Agree. "Selfish vanity" describes neither the justice nor the senator. These are archaic terms formerly used to put women in their place—guilt-ridden shame. If Feinstein is cognitively muddled, this is not selfish vanity. If Ginsburg was optimistic, this was not selfish vanity. Who first used that term in this discussion, anyway? The term "selfish vanity" should be retired with the rest of the mid-20th Century. Sen. Diane Feinstein should be offered a letter of resignation to sign, by someone who deeply respects and loves her.
Geezus, why do people personalize such stuff. Vanity and ego are applicable to men. for instance Mitch McConnell, Biden and half or more of the Congress.
There is a portion of the population that personalizes everything and reflexively become defensive, from gun owners, religious to render, race and LGBT.
And all they are doing is giving the enemies of democracy, the fascists, ammunition resupply.
Let's stick with valid complaints and remedies, not crap that offends someones easily wounded sensibilities.
I’m gay and I don’t have “easily wounded sensibilities”. I do, however, object when people are being unfair, which is a reasonable thing to do.
Really? Feel free to disagree, but offer a substantive point.
Your original comment prompted my reply which is lost somewhere in the thread because I am inept with this form of communication. You accused the Senator of selfish vanity, made some other derogatory, speculative comments and then took aim at the late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg which prompted me to reply. Your misogyny is repellant.
Now that you have clarified, your assumptions are presumptuous and narrow-minded. I did not make this about their gender, you did. I have no issue with their gender, nor did I write anything of the sort; my comments are about their choices to remain in power at the expense of the rest of us.
There are reasons to explain Feinstein , RGB and other octogenarians in government
1. Vanity or ego
2 Pecuniary
I explained the latter in a subsequent post.
Shingles does not take months and months to resolve. Dementia at 89 is not unusual, and there is no cure.
I think others are making these decisions, not Ms. Feinstein, and they need to get their heads out of the sand.
Actually, for someone of Senator Feinstein's age, shingles does take a long time to resolve. My mother had shingles in her late 80's. She was miserable and in pain for months. After the rash went away, the nerve pain remained. My now 86 yr. old aunt had shingles several years ago. That case greatly increased her frailty because the pain lingered for months. For the elderly, shingles is no joke. Sadly, this situation has likely rendered the senator disabled. She should resign NOW!
I must remember to ask my PCP about Shingrix. I had a shot over 7 years ago, time for a booster.
The Shingrix vaccine has been available for at least 6 years and I don't know why your family didn't take advantage or that smart optioin. Could you tell us?
Probably like me. I had a shinles shot back in 2009, and thought it was good forever, just learned that it is goof for only 7 years
Shingrix has nasty side effects- most notably Guillian Barre syndrome. Some people don’t want to gamble with paralysis. My PCP has advised me to not get it- which means at least 1 of her patients was harmed by taking it.
Shingrix is a relatively new vaccine since it became available late 2017. I suspect your relatives did not get the vaccine.
Celeste K: It depends on how severe a case one has. Complications can include pneumonia and even encephalitis. Nonetheless, she should resign. No argument.
Some people who have had shingles do have a lingering problem with nerve pain which is often described as excruciating. I recall reading some years back that "post-herpetic nerve pain" that followed the active outbreak of shingles, when it did not go away, often drove sufferers to suicide, it was so relentlessly painful. Here is something from Mayo Clinic:
Postherpetic neuralgia - Symptoms and causes - Mayo Clinic
Feb 10, 2023 It causes a burning pain in nerves and skin. The pain lasts long after the rash and blisters of shingles go away. The risk of postherpetic neuralgia rises with age. It mainly affects people older than 60. There's no cure, but treatments can ease symptoms. For most people, postherpetic neuralgia gets better over time.
I stand corrected regarding the length of time that shingles effects a person. I have never had the experience of following any of my patients for the long term after the initial recovery of the contagious rash and blisters. It makes sense that Ms. Feinstein is still feeling the effects of this disease.
It makes it clear, however, that she is not able to return to the Senate to perform her duties. It is important that she step down and allow another to continue in her place.
That being the case it is all about the money. An a member of congress gets full service and access to the best medical care available. When retired both are reduced and the burden falls on the family.
Mario and Joseph Lawson: According to one of the official gov med sites:
"Who should not receive zoster vaccine? Zoster vaccine should not be given to people who are immunocompromised, pregnant women, or those who have previously had anaphylaxis to the vaccine (either Zostavax or varicella vaccine) or its components (including gelatin or neomycin)."
Not to be presumptuous, but I think we can assume the Senator is not pregnant. We have no knowledge re: her personal medical history, so whether or not she should have been vaccinated (and who knows -- maybe she was and for some reason it didn't take) is totally beside the point.
She should resign for the good of the country -- like yesterday!!
I don't think shingles is the issue at hand.
Also immuno compromised and I am in remission from cancer, and had pneumonia after my 1st treatment of Keytruda in 2017. And am allergic to the neo in neosporin
and the neo in neomycin which is a component of Shingrix, but I also carry my Epipen (bee sting allergy)
William: Sounds like you're a real survivor with all your wits intact. Guess Shingrix wouldn't be the vaxx of choice in your situation, so good luck against shingles and any 'neos' lurking out there. Some people have all the luck. 🙀🙃 At least you're not pregnant.
Agree. I was just thinking since it is well known she has dementia, perhaps she either wasn’t aware of it or felt the updated Shingrix vaccine wasn’t warranted if she already had the old vaccine.
Not prevented, just lessened. But at 89 the effects are probably worse, anyway.
“Shingrix is more than 90% effective at PREVENTING shingles and PHN. Immunity stays strong for at least the first 7 years after vaccination.” From CDC.gov
A friend had the vaccine and still contracted it. Her doc said that it only lessened the effects. She must have been in the other percentage.
Perhaps your friend only received the old shingles vaccine which only was 51% effective in preventing shingles. Many are under the incorrect assumption that they don’t need the newer Shingrix vaccine because they were already vaccinated. This is a terrible assumption due to Shingrix being much more successful (90%) in the prevention of this painful, blistering disease. It is perfectly fine and recommended to get this additional vaccine. I did.
As someone who had both shots of the Shingrix vaccine just two years ago, and is currently afflicted with a case of internal shingles, I understood that the vaccine only reduces your chances for shingles and PHN (post shingles nerve pain) but does not eliminate the possibility you will get it. For those that do get Shingles despite getting the Shingrix vaccination, the vaccine is known to reduce the severity and duration of the it. Speaking from first-hand experience as a relatively young and healthy (not immuno-compromised) person vaccinated with Shingrix, the pain from internal shingles is intense, I can't imagine what the pain is like without the vaccine.
You may be right about that. I can’t ask her.
That means I'll need another round in a couple of years.
Me too, I got the two doses when it first came out in 2017
Isn't the question of why she hadn't been vaccinated with Shingrix (or had allowed her immunity to lapse) a question for her doctor? Unless more information is forthcoming, the rest is speculation - and probably a bit unfair as such...
With all due respect for your point about Shingrix shingles vaccine, the broader political point is not about that vaccine, its efficacy, Diane Feinstein's vaccination status or the severity of her shingles outbreak. The political point is her protracted absence from her duties as a Senator and the effect of her absence from the Judiciary Committee on judicial appointments.
Mitch McConnell whose craven list of "Things To Do" has two major things on it:
Get right-wing, Federalist Society, regressive judges appointed while blocking any and all Democratic nominated or approved judges;
Block everything and everybody proposed by Democrats.
Mitch fancies himself President because he controls the country without ever having to actually run for that office, knowing he had no chance ever to be elected outside of Kentucky. Kentucky should never have elected him because he has little to no interest, concern or connection to Kentucky, but that state has inflicted Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul and Thomas Massie on all of America. Mitch's ego has a different character to Diane Feinstein's; he got himself out of the hospital, out of rehab ( ALL AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE, NO DOUBT!!!) and back in the Senate to take up his poison mantle of undermining America's progress and decency. He is a duplicitous, dishonest, manipulative operator, but a cunning one all the same. He got himself back in the Senate and back to his version of "work."
Diane Feinstein may harbor some belief that she can and will come back and be able to do the work, but her declining health has been apparent, even before the revelation of her having shingles. She has been absent since January, I think, and it is not a job where "co-workers" can take up the slack. She has been absent too long already and needs to resign.
Charles "Chuck" Grassley is another one who should not have run again, should have retired (long ago!) but he is very, very full of his own sense of importance and so America suffers for his selfishness.
Professor/Secretary Reich called it a "gerontracy" and it does have that appearance. It might be more acceptable if those old ones were wise sages, great fonts of wisdom, with minds and mouths still vibrant and enlightening, but they are not.
And note to Professor/Secretary Reich: you certainly don't need to be told this, but I'll say it anyway: it was the vile, despicable Strom Thurmond who was a very, very small imitation of a man - his disgusting dyed-red hair, his nonsensical (and worse) verbiage, his outrageous hypocrisy, his lifetime of cruelty that some wanted to exonerate towards the end of his life..... No, sir, he would never measure up to a good man.
I also think it’s a pretty big leap to assume she didn’t get the vaccine. Unless you know her personally or she has made a public statement to the contrary.
It’s like birth control; you can still get pregnant, but unlikely.
Unless you only received the older shingles vaccine, Zostavax which was only 51% effective. (You can still get the Shingrix vaccine which is 90% effective in the prevention of shingles).
I don’t know her health status, other than she’s 89. It’s safe to assume there’s some compromised immunity at that age that also might impact ones’ decision to receive any vaccine. Only her doctor can advise her on that. The ‘I got it, so everyone else can’ is not sound medical advice, sorry.
So was COVID a debilitating illness and there were those who were advised to not take the vaccine(s). By the CDC., for Pete’s sake. I’d bet there’d be a disclaimer on the website about consulting ones’ own health care provider. But hey, why bother, when they can just ask you?
Shingrix has neomycin as a component. I am allergic to the neo as in neosporin (I use polysporing as a replacement) also allergic to bee stings so carry an Epipen. Any thoughts as to what Shingrix will do, I would rather use my Epipen than have shingles. I had a shingles shot back in 2009 (I think, just a guess, can't remember the date)
I got Zostavax and later had an itchy rash on my chest that was worse than the miliaria that I often got in summer. When I noticed the whelps in lines like with herpes & went to the Dr. it was treated with an anti-viral med. Other than itchy discomfort it wasn't as devastating as what ppl describe as Shingles. So the vaccine probably helped a bit.
Zostervax was the old vaccine. Shingrix is much more effective including for people over 70. I was a medical social worker and geriatric care mgr.
Once you've seen the suffering of shingles victims you know you never want to go through that experience and you pay attention for available vaccines. I had them both and it is highly recommended that you go for Shingrix despite having had the less effective Zostervax.
Sorry to disillusion you, but you can still get shingles after receiving the vaccine. I know a gentleman who is vaccinated and still got shingles. It might be rare, but it does happen.
And Shingles on average only lasts a few weeks, not into next year. My pick: Katie Porter and her whiteboard.
My thought, exactly.
My mom had shingles at age 90. They gave her medication and it was gone quickly so though i know each person has different issues, there should be legislation that doesn’t allow unending service on these committees. I mean a Nevada county voted for a Republican dead pimp and Republicans were able to replace the person after the election was over. How is this different? She should at least be able to appoint someone for the duration of her term?
You know this for a fact
Agree, but what if she is incapable of resigning due to health reasons, such as dementia or she's in a coma? If a member of Congress becomes incapacitated, there is no legal avenue to replace that person. This is a larger issue that needs to be addressed!
Agreed. What happens in the gap? We can’t afford to wait to find out, esp in this crucial time.
I think a Constitutional Amendment is needed in the long term to address this concern. In the short term, I think we are stuck if she is incapable of resigning. It takes a 2/3rds vote in the Senate to expel her, so the Republicans can block this, and she hasn't done anything to justify expulsion under present Senate rules.
I just read & posted the link to where she’s on her way back now. I am really hoping that she is coming back to bow out gracefully and allow a path forward, immediately. No one can condemn her legacy. But her legacy does not need to end in a manner that’s not within her control so while she still has it, I hope she uses it!
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/dianne-feinstein-set-return-senate-nearly-3-month-absence-due-health-i-rcna83434
Nancy Pelosi's position on Feinstein, James Clyburn's shady role in keeping his seat safe and the rest of SC unsafe for other black candidates (per ProPublica), and Diane Feinstein's de facto sovereignty are compelling arguments for an age cut-off in congress. Biden's "Where's Jackie?" moment removed any doubt he should decline to run again. (Yes, I'd have been involuntarily retired years ago myself.) The U.S. desperately needs for leaders now in their prime but denied top positions to be unleashed.
Age limit, no; cognitive screening, yes.( Like getting a drivers' license as an elder.)
I should have had another cup of coffee before I posted. I fully agree with you, Sandra B.
Oh, dear! I just googled this, and it looks very bad. This is the first I've heard about it.
? Not sure what "this" is, kdsherpa. If Clyburn, I heard only a distant signal and had to search it too. An oddly ignored story.
Sorry! I was referring to Biden's "Where's Jackie?" comment. Sad to say, this will feed the pugs for sure.
That happened a few months ago. I dearly wish that if Biden is unwilling to step aside he'd at least give Kamala a plum face-saving appointment and add a vp with substantial credentials, foreign and domestic. I have nothing against K., other than thinking she's a loser nationally. Now Joe has named as his campaign manager the manager of K.'s failed presidential campaign. I never did, never will understand him.
I was a supporter of Harris before she dropped out (early) from her campaign for President. I believe that it was her sister who managed her campaign? Or perhaps Maya was just by Kamala's side each inch of the way. Insane if he's using her person for this coming election! What happened to his own campaign manager from 2020?! Your suggestion is brilliant: since Kamala appears to be a drag on Biden's presidency, give her a fabulous appointment in his next term, and have someone else who's considered a "WINNER" in Dem circles run as his VP. Now, the question is: how will this be explained during the campaign? People will jump all over him from every direction -- you're dumping a woman! you're dumping a Black person! etc., etc. Your thoughts?
Even though this situation affects all of America, I believe Californian’s should petition their Senator to step down for the betterment of the Nation.
Like that could happen.
This situation illustrates the need for a maximum age for office. You have to be a minimum age to run. I think you need a maximum age to continue in office. This is not coming from a spring chicken either. I am 69 and still working for company with no forced retirement, but I am not involved in running the country.
Age limit, no; cognitive screening, yes.