Of course The response would’ve been different if the prayers of been led by a Muslim.
But we now need to take full advantage of this and show them that swords cut both ways. Show them that you clearly have the right now, supported by the Supreme Court, to lead prayers of devil worship before the football games.
After all, they can’t say it’s OK to lead the crowd in Christian prayer only. That would be the government supporting one religion over another. Certainly the “originalist“ on the Supreme Court would have a problem with such a blatant First Amendment violation.
Why, anything else would be just the most blatant hypocrisy. And the Court would never do that. </sarcasm>
I think all of this coercion makes for less respect for Christianity—what it really stands for, what Christ really taught. It doesn’t honor Christ at all, and is hypocritical. It’s saying, “I’m superior to you because of my beliefs.” It’s very ugly.
Yes, definitely "sarcasm"... What right do these "justices" (most unjustly) have to interfere in others' private matters, when others are not hurting anyone else? Their sickening hypocrisy makes me want to barf, quite literally.
It's hysterical that the same people who would consider you crazy if you suggested Zeus, Thor, Quetzalcoatl, Anansi, Asdzą́ą́ Nádleehé, Raijin, or Kali are anything other than made up characters are equally insistent that the Christian God is not.
Absolutely. But not allowing a Muslim to lead a prayer to Allah will make SCOTUS in violation of the First Amendment and we could impeach the ones who voted for it.
Unfortunately we live in a republic, not a direct democracy. The best we can do to fight this outrage is to vote out the party that put these justices in place, and keep them out.
Impeachment, retirement or deathly appear at first glance to be the only way to get rid of these imposters. But there is a much better way and it is already there in the way our government is set up. Biden could simply expand the Court and appoint honest sane people. He could also do away with lifetime terms and could stagger terms. We would need Congress too, so now is not the time. Inexplicably, Biden said Monday that he "is not a fan of court packing". He is living in the past.
Dear Robert Reich. I am in tears. How vulnerable of you to share this. May you be blessed. And thank you for helping us prevent such situations for all children.
There is a fellow in history whom I call "The Little Rabbi." Reb, you will I hope accept my apologies for referring to this man in history as the Little Rabbi, as I think of him in my meditations. There is no evidence that he had any formal rabbinical training, but The Little Rabbi he is, in my mind, first and foremost, no matter what else.
The Little Rabbi said - "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones ... it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
When Robert was a little one, he was offended, that was a terrible thing, an unforgivable thing perhaps. The Little Rabbi spoke exactly of this. And whether The Little Rabbi is still with us or not - for what do we really know of such things? - you do not weep alone.
I'd like to lead the crowd out onto the field, dancing and drumming, "Hare Krishna... Krishna Hare..." over and over. It's an easy chant and a fun, free-form dance. We could fill the air with joy and drums about 10 yards from that coach.
A joyous drum circle and chanting would be a great way to respond to the 50 yard line praying coach. Let's get the word out. I love countering pseudo-religion.
Not likely. The coach is the supposed"adult" and he controls your future on the team, so you are stuck listening to his BS prayer. Direct violation of the separation provision of the constitution. Not only are the conservative justices wrong, they should be arrested and tried for sedition and hopefully executed.
Haha! that is why 'winning is everything' mindset has ruined sports ; especially the Olympics! If people could just walk away from such a 'coach' because he is toxic, that sick kind of power would end! that is not 'liberalism' it is an abuse of power, by a tyrant. Like a Trump, or a Chump of Trump.
It is and that's the point. You have the freedom to expose them to your religion as they do to expose you to theirs. They just never think about that when they do this crap. That's why it usually gets rolled back quickly.
That was one of the arguments. Religious freedom! But it’s not when it’s on the school grounds during, before or after a game, when some students and families are excluded.
As a HS athlete and disturber of the status quo, the idea of sacrificing a chicken in the post game end zone, while the Fellowship of Christian Athletes prayed at mid field, was always n the back of my mind.
I like your style, but "kill 'em with kindness" often works better. Joyous dancing leaves them nowhere to go. Your solution gives them so many ways to complain! PETA, veganism, salmonella... ho ho ho. An old NAACP organizer once told me to start a movement with a cause that's hard to argue with. "More milk for babies!" - I guess these days we have to shout, "More formula for babies!"
Loretta - I should have mentioned I was in HS 50 years ago! The "kill 'em with kindness" that I believe needs to be employed in 2022 is getting out the vote to remove GOP representatives at all levels of govt.
Your brief role as the Messiah could have gone "to your head"...so glad you are still humble. As for this latest odd decision, we need to start taxing churches if they continue to be involved in sports, politics, etc
When I was a little girl I was chased home from school every day by the Catholic school girls. They threw stones at me and called me "Christ killer" (I'm Jewish). Not being religious, I did not understand what they meant. One day while running away from these mean girls, an African American girl approached me and told me to take her hand. I did. We became good friend. Those Catholic school girls never bothered me again.
I experienced that in kindergarten-My mom said I asked the ringleaders mom “if the Jews didn’t do it and the Catholics didn’t do it was it the Protestants. I love how the harassment was stopped with friendship
According to current Catholic understanding, the Covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid. This dogma confuses many Christian theologians, but is apparently entirely cool with God, who has not made any press releases on the matter. Until then, MYOB, theologians, nosy-parkers and others with a burning opinion.
Really. All Catholic women are horrible to work with? I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with coworkers, but tarring every Catholic woman is very judgmental of you. Why not try to see people as individuals. I have worked with kind women of many religions and agnostics and atheists too. Kindness or lack of it doesn't rely on someone's faith or lack of it.
Interestingly enough, of the mean girls I have encountered who tried to get me fired from my job some were evangelicals and the others I don't know if they were religious in any way. Cruel behavior is a choice. Sorry if I misunderstood your categorization.
I know. But I continue to hope that some of them were able to go beyond the 'hate' and 'judgement' and go forward to a place with more light. I know that it's rare, but I have to hold onto the 'rare' things in life in order to survive!!
I think I saw that Mr. Gorsuch said that this was all okay because the students were not being coerced. Tell that to the kindergartener, Robert Reich, in 1951.
That's what I was thinking. What happens to the kids who decide to stay on the sidelines? Do they get treated differently for not participating? Less or no playing time? Failing grade for physical education? What's their recourse?
Yep, it’s the same for sexual harassment policies in universities. I was involved with writing such a policy for William & Mary, and the power differential was central.
Okay, just to pile on poor Mr. Gorsuch. He generally gets off too lightly. Maybe because he's handsome and well spoken. I listened to him during his confirmation hearing. Total smarm. Talking reverentially about his "mom", Ann Gorsuch, appointed by Reagan to head the EPA. In other words, appointing someone who was enemy of the mission. Sounds familiar, right?
His mom tried to destroy the EPA & environmental law enforcement. She was so disruptive, even Reagan (of "if you've seen 1 redwood, you've seen them all" fame) had enough of her & fired her.
Neil wants to finish where his mother left off. With the upcoming decision on the EPA, they will try to remove executive authority on the environment, really hampering government to make environmental policy, probably the last peg on our coffin with regards to having any fighting chance to alleviate climate chaos, ecosystem disintegration & mass extinction to a tolerable, inhabitable level.
Yes, Jaime, it's mass extinction (of us) that will ultimately save the planet. And regarding those other species? Some will survive and Mother Gaia will begin again (unless we go the way of the planet Venus).
Believe me, they feel coerced. I was a chaperone for a trip for my daughter once and they did a prayer at the beginning of a banquet. Out of courtesy for them, I stayed quiet while they did it although I didn't bow my head or close my eyes. At the end, when they said "Amen" I said, "Mitakuye Oyasin," somewhat loudly. I got a lot of strange looks.
A couple of people, both parents and students, approached me later and thanked me for doing that. People feel like they HAVE to do it to be respectful to the others. Too bad the others can't be respectful to the rest of us. But this is why it's not right. Those students still feel like that 5 year old Robert did.
I am really curious how the court would react if the coach were Jewish and got fired for wearing a tallit during prayers in the locker room or after the game.
Thanks so much for raising that very important & appropriate question. Me thinks that the Supreme Gang of 6 would have reacted VERY differently of course!
I don’t think it would have got to the Supreme Court due to the controversial nature of the questions raised by such a case. Like what do we mean when we refer to a Judeo-Christian tradition.
Since I’m not a lawyer I don’t know if the hypothetical case you posed would reach the Supreme Court.
But if it did, I definitely believe the Supreme Court’s 6 far right wing nut cases would react very differently to a Jew or Moslem who prayed under the same circumstances.
Does this mean that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and other religionists will be able to lead prayers at schools now? We'll have to see if the evangelicals take legal action when non-Christians exercise their free speech rights.
Not likely. Mostly white wing evangelical christians/catholics want our America turned into their theocratic fantasy, and forget the 1st amendment regarding separation of church and state. And I guess forget if you have different faiths/beliefs. Imagine from John Lennon seems appropriate to me at the moment.
Close the classroom. It's no longer safe. Build village learning environments. End child apartheid. It's all possible. There are plans available. Individualized curriculum. Teachers' job descriptions change, but teachers don't lose their jobs. We can do it. Much better way to educate. School boards' job descriptions change. Everything changes. Communities will grow young and grow stronger. It's the key to solving many, many problems. Let's go this other way.
I appreciate your honesty in portraying this episode in your young life. I, too, felt uncomfortable surrounded by the xmas songs celebrating a holiday my family did not believe in. It has made me more sensitive to potential experiences that we take for granted but may make others feel uncomfortable. I firmly believe church and state should be separate…..we live in a country where there are many opportunities to practice ones religious beliefs….without imposing it upon others.
YES, you put into words what "othering" feels like. It's a version of microagression, felt routinely by those who arent Christian, white, or whatever the category is of those in charge. Its constant, low-level humiliation and should not be protected by this type of ruling.
Why is is, Bob, that you renew my faith in people? Maybe it is because you are one of the few genuine people I know.. I love hearing about your life and how you handled it.
The first time I saw Mr. Reich speak on a Sunday news show during the Clinton administration, I knew he was something special. I thought him an honest man, who didn’t have the self-interest of his peers. Decades later, he has not let me (or our country) down.
For those not Catholic, the abortion ruling similarly establishes Catholic doctrine as dominant. Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, Barrett, Kavanaugh, & even Roberts seem to have no problems with ghat. Alas! For our Constitution, our Republic, and our rights
I was a Mormon. This opinion and its “validity” is shared by the hierarchy dsof that group/faith too. Catholic doctrine is not alone on this subject although I admit there are too many Catholics on the Court. I remember when John Kennedy ran for the Presidency his Catholic faith was initially an impediment. He had to admit that his actions as President would not be controlled by the Pope in Rome.
I had a parallel experience. I was in sixth grade (in a mostly Jewish elementary school in Los Angeles) and we had a Christmas celebration where we had to sing Christian songs. I said I was Jewish (my family was similarly more cultural than religious) and if the other kids wanted to do it that was fine with me, but I didn't want to. It felt wrong. The school said I had to. My parents said don't make trouble, just stand in the back and mouth the words. I said it still didn't feel right and held firm. Finally they said "if you want to sit in a room by yourself while everybody else is having fun you can." But it really did feel like a fundamental violation of who I was and I'm sure to other kids who didn't speak up.
Not only did I sing along, I remember all the lyrics -- public school taught the Protestant work ethic, and specifically Presbyterian culture. I was asked to perform in outside productions.
In those days, teachers were mandated to read the bible. My home room teacher for 3 years inspected me for horns and cloven hooves and every day read the John NT passages where Jews killed Jesus. When Kennedy ran for president, she told us that if Kennedy won, holy water would be piped into the White House.
Eventually Supreme Court cases eliminated prayer in school and reading the bible,
And I recall during my first year of teaching, I overheard the Kindergarten teacher calling the class to attention for "the prayer" AFTER the Supreme Court ruling. The year was 1967.
If it gives you any comfort, I've always been uncomfortable when the prayers in public began, even having been raised Presbyterian (but not any longer). It makes a lot of us white "Christians" uncomfortable also. It did feel good, singing in the high school choir in 1960, including Jewish Hanukah songs along with "Silent Night." About 40 percent of students were Jewish or non-Christian. Now I wonder how the Jewish kids must have felt, since most of the songs we sang were Christian.
I played Mary (mother of Jesus) in a Presbyterian church play when I was about 12 or so. Had a huge crush on the kid who played Joseph....and it was all I could do to keep from laughing as I was out or New Orleans and the tent revival meetings that my Grandmother used to go to.
Suffice it to say, that I was brought up a Southern Baptist and was glad my stepdad was a Unitarian!
I was in Nativity plays in my grade school many years ago; it would have been about 1940-50 or so. My kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Blackford, remembered years later that these Nativity scenes went on daily for awhile in season; I was the Virgin Mary at least once. But then I said to her one day, “Mrs. Blackford, I want to play God.” She tried to come up with a good argument against it, but I persisted. Finally I just went into the Nativity scene and stood there. That’s all. Just stood. I guess that’s what I felt God would do.
I played Mary too! And to this day remain fucked by a masculine God whether I like it or not! It was an Episcopal elementary school and wasn’t that pushy besides stuff like that.
Wow. You poor thing, Professor Reich! What a scar you bared to us this evening - thank you. I am so sorry you had to go through that torturous Christmas pageant.
The SCOTUS has run amok. I am deeply saddened and deeply disturbed at the biased rulings of the justices who are allowing their own extreme beliefs to sway their decisions. God help us! (pun intended) 🌻
Had the prayers been led by a Muslim, would there have been a different response?
Of course...
Of course The response would’ve been different if the prayers of been led by a Muslim.
But we now need to take full advantage of this and show them that swords cut both ways. Show them that you clearly have the right now, supported by the Supreme Court, to lead prayers of devil worship before the football games.
After all, they can’t say it’s OK to lead the crowd in Christian prayer only. That would be the government supporting one religion over another. Certainly the “originalist“ on the Supreme Court would have a problem with such a blatant First Amendment violation.
Why, anything else would be just the most blatant hypocrisy. And the Court would never do that. </sarcasm>
I think all of this coercion makes for less respect for Christianity—what it really stands for, what Christ really taught. It doesn’t honor Christ at all, and is hypocritical. It’s saying, “I’m superior to you because of my beliefs.” It’s very ugly.
In my experience, the vast majority of people who claim to be Christians don't follow the teachings of Christ.
My sister won't even identify herself as christian anymore because there are so many false ones. She just calls herself a believer.
Thus the reason for what?
Yes, definitely "sarcasm"... What right do these "justices" (most unjustly) have to interfere in others' private matters, when others are not hurting anyone else? Their sickening hypocrisy makes me want to barf, quite literally.
So is God.
So is Jehovah.
It's hysterical that the same people who would consider you crazy if you suggested Zeus, Thor, Quetzalcoatl, Anansi, Asdzą́ą́ Nádleehé, Raijin, or Kali are anything other than made up characters are equally insistent that the Christian God is not.
If I object, I should not be ejected.
Ask this question EVERY time! 👍🏼
Absolutely. But not allowing a Muslim to lead a prayer to Allah will make SCOTUS in violation of the First Amendment and we could impeach the ones who voted for it.
They should be impeached already, but how to arrange that?
Unfortunately we live in a republic, not a direct democracy. The best we can do to fight this outrage is to vote out the party that put these justices in place, and keep them out.
Impeachment, retirement or deathly appear at first glance to be the only way to get rid of these imposters. But there is a much better way and it is already there in the way our government is set up. Biden could simply expand the Court and appoint honest sane people. He could also do away with lifetime terms and could stagger terms. We would need Congress too, so now is not the time. Inexplicably, Biden said Monday that he "is not a fan of court packing". He is living in the past.
My problem with packing the court is... what's to stop the next administration for making a similar change to suit THEMSELVES. Where will it end?
Mitch McConnell has already packed the court.
Right you are!
🤣😂😆
Dear Robert Reich. I am in tears. How vulnerable of you to share this. May you be blessed. And thank you for helping us prevent such situations for all children.
Rabbi Me'irah Iliinsky
I went to a parochial school but my parents pulled me out when I called the rabbi, "Father Lipschitz."
There is a fellow in history whom I call "The Little Rabbi." Reb, you will I hope accept my apologies for referring to this man in history as the Little Rabbi, as I think of him in my meditations. There is no evidence that he had any formal rabbinical training, but The Little Rabbi he is, in my mind, first and foremost, no matter what else.
The Little Rabbi said - "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones ... it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
When Robert was a little one, he was offended, that was a terrible thing, an unforgivable thing perhaps. The Little Rabbi spoke exactly of this. And whether The Little Rabbi is still with us or not - for what do we really know of such things? - you do not weep alone.
PS. A millstone, in the day of the little Rabbi, weighed about 3,000 pounds.
Hi. I actually call him "our most famous rabbi." He did have a formal Jewish education, i believe
Who?
Who was the Little Rabbi? Please don’t tell me you mean Jesus.
What could possibly be wrong with calling a Jewish man, who taught people about God, “Rabbi”?
Nothing at all, but who’s the “Little Rabbi”?
What a lovely thing to say, Rabbi ♥️🌻
I concur.
🥲
I'd like to lead the crowd out onto the field, dancing and drumming, "Hare Krishna... Krishna Hare..." over and over. It's an easy chant and a fun, free-form dance. We could fill the air with joy and drums about 10 yards from that coach.
A joyous drum circle and chanting would be a great way to respond to the 50 yard line praying coach. Let's get the word out. I love countering pseudo-religion.
So you pray to your god and he prays to his? Isn't that religious freedom?
I don’t believe in any god. I don’t pray. Can I just walk away?
Pontificate on why you think religion is stupid and why there is no god. Your opinion is just as valid as theirs.
Yes of course.
Not likely. The coach is the supposed"adult" and he controls your future on the team, so you are stuck listening to his BS prayer. Direct violation of the separation provision of the constitution. Not only are the conservative justices wrong, they should be arrested and tried for sedition and hopefully executed.
I was with you up to that last word.
Executed!?
I agree.
Too harsh. Best to let them live under liberalism, powerless to overcome it.
Haha! that is why 'winning is everything' mindset has ruined sports ; especially the Olympics! If people could just walk away from such a 'coach' because he is toxic, that sick kind of power would end! that is not 'liberalism' it is an abuse of power, by a tyrant. Like a Trump, or a Chump of Trump.
You definitely should! We all should.
Not on school grounds during school events, because it assumes that it is appropriate for every child.
Exactly
It is and that's the point. You have the freedom to expose them to your religion as they do to expose you to theirs. They just never think about that when they do this crap. That's why it usually gets rolled back quickly.
That was one of the arguments. Religious freedom! But it’s not when it’s on the school grounds during, before or after a game, when some students and families are excluded.
Of course. That’s the idea. Some of us are more godly than others. God loves some more. It is after all their invisible friend.
No, he's praying
Good idea.
As a HS athlete and disturber of the status quo, the idea of sacrificing a chicken in the post game end zone, while the Fellowship of Christian Athletes prayed at mid field, was always n the back of my mind.
I like your style, but "kill 'em with kindness" often works better. Joyous dancing leaves them nowhere to go. Your solution gives them so many ways to complain! PETA, veganism, salmonella... ho ho ho. An old NAACP organizer once told me to start a movement with a cause that's hard to argue with. "More milk for babies!" - I guess these days we have to shout, "More formula for babies!"
Loretta - I should have mentioned I was in HS 50 years ago! The "kill 'em with kindness" that I believe needs to be employed in 2022 is getting out the vote to remove GOP representatives at all levels of govt.
Amen! Er... absolutely!
More women breast feeding. It's easier than mixing formula and always ready. Even at work. Oh, brave, new world!
Your brief role as the Messiah could have gone "to your head"...so glad you are still humble. As for this latest odd decision, we need to start taxing churches if they continue to be involved in sports, politics, etc
That only seems fair, right!!
Um hm, right.
When I was a little girl I was chased home from school every day by the Catholic school girls. They threw stones at me and called me "Christ killer" (I'm Jewish). Not being religious, I did not understand what they meant. One day while running away from these mean girls, an African American girl approached me and told me to take her hand. I did. We became good friend. Those Catholic school girls never bothered me again.
What a story! How wonderful! Beautiful!
Incidentally, I think Pope John XXIII specifically acted to do away with the idea that Jews were killers of Christ.
That's great!!
I experienced that in kindergarten-My mom said I asked the ringleaders mom “if the Jews didn’t do it and the Catholics didn’t do it was it the Protestants. I love how the harassment was stopped with friendship
So beautiful!!!
According to current Catholic understanding, the Covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid. This dogma confuses many Christian theologians, but is apparently entirely cool with God, who has not made any press releases on the matter. Until then, MYOB, theologians, nosy-parkers and others with a burning opinion.
Catholic girls were sooooo mean, and they grow up to become mean women
That’s a generalization which is really prejudice.
No kidding, but it’s true. They’re out there and they suck to work with. I have a reason for my prejudice, not apologizing
Really. All Catholic women are horrible to work with? I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with coworkers, but tarring every Catholic woman is very judgmental of you. Why not try to see people as individuals. I have worked with kind women of many religions and agnostics and atheists too. Kindness or lack of it doesn't rely on someone's faith or lack of it.
I never said ALL- I said The Mean Girls. You know who they are, they were in your class
Interestingly enough, of the mean girls I have encountered who tried to get me fired from my job some were evangelicals and the others I don't know if they were religious in any way. Cruel behavior is a choice. Sorry if I misunderstood your categorization.
You can never generalize about any group. Nobody has the right to any
prejudice. I’ve known lovely Catholics.
I know. But I continue to hope that some of them were able to go beyond the 'hate' and 'judgement' and go forward to a place with more light. I know that it's rare, but I have to hold onto the 'rare' things in life in order to survive!!
I think I saw that Mr. Gorsuch said that this was all okay because the students were not being coerced. Tell that to the kindergartener, Robert Reich, in 1951.
Differential power makes official “requests” like this utterly coercive.
That's what I was thinking. What happens to the kids who decide to stay on the sidelines? Do they get treated differently for not participating? Less or no playing time? Failing grade for physical education? What's their recourse?
Yep, it’s the same for sexual harassment policies in universities. I was involved with writing such a policy for William & Mary, and the power differential was central.
I'm really frightened about the future...
I'm stepping over the border to Canada when this becomes the Soviet Union.
I'll go with you!!!!
As one of those kids (a long time ago), yes they do. SCOTUS is fooling no one, this is a naked religious grab. Like overturning Roe v. Wade.
Right. It's not only the differential child-adult, it's also peer-enforced. and mob-enforced.
Okay, just to pile on poor Mr. Gorsuch. He generally gets off too lightly. Maybe because he's handsome and well spoken. I listened to him during his confirmation hearing. Total smarm. Talking reverentially about his "mom", Ann Gorsuch, appointed by Reagan to head the EPA. In other words, appointing someone who was enemy of the mission. Sounds familiar, right?
His mother was disgraced.
https://slate.com/technology/2017/02/neil-gorsuch-s-mother-anne-tried-to-dismantle-the-epa.html
Not surprised. Apple doesn’t far from the family tree.
Handsome? No way. I want to gag when I see him, Thomas, Kavanaugh, Alito and coat hanger Barrett.
His mom tried to destroy the EPA & environmental law enforcement. She was so disruptive, even Reagan (of "if you've seen 1 redwood, you've seen them all" fame) had enough of her & fired her.
Neil wants to finish where his mother left off. With the upcoming decision on the EPA, they will try to remove executive authority on the environment, really hampering government to make environmental policy, probably the last peg on our coffin with regards to having any fighting chance to alleviate climate chaos, ecosystem disintegration & mass extinction to a tolerable, inhabitable level.
Yes, Jaime, it's mass extinction (of us) that will ultimately save the planet. And regarding those other species? Some will survive and Mother Gaia will begin again (unless we go the way of the planet Venus).
Believe me, they feel coerced. I was a chaperone for a trip for my daughter once and they did a prayer at the beginning of a banquet. Out of courtesy for them, I stayed quiet while they did it although I didn't bow my head or close my eyes. At the end, when they said "Amen" I said, "Mitakuye Oyasin," somewhat loudly. I got a lot of strange looks.
A couple of people, both parents and students, approached me later and thanked me for doing that. People feel like they HAVE to do it to be respectful to the others. Too bad the others can't be respectful to the rest of us. But this is why it's not right. Those students still feel like that 5 year old Robert did.
What does your phrase mean?
"We are all related." It's how the Lakota end their prayers.
Thank you. It’s wise and true.
May the FSM bless you for that. RAmen. Not snarking. Really mean it ❤️
What is the FSM?
Right.
How do you think the court would have reacted if the coach was wearing tallit prayer shawl?
I am really curious how the court would react if the coach were Jewish and got fired for wearing a tallit during prayers in the locker room or after the game.
Thanks so much for raising that very important & appropriate question. Me thinks that the Supreme Gang of 6 would have reacted VERY differently of course!
I don’t think it would have got to the Supreme Court due to the controversial nature of the questions raised by such a case. Like what do we mean when we refer to a Judeo-Christian tradition.
Like: in which tradition is it ok to pray in public privately? The Christian side or the Judeo side?
Both? Equal time?
Islam is part of that question. Same god. Halftime spiral dancing might be fun.
Both of those and all others or be in direct violation of the First, I would think.
I’m thinking it would not have made it to the Supreme Court due to all the controversial complications such a case would present
Since I’m not a lawyer I don’t know if the hypothetical case you posed would reach the Supreme Court.
But if it did, I definitely believe the Supreme Court’s 6 far right wing nut cases would react very differently to a Jew or Moslem who prayed under the same circumstances.
Excellent point!
Does this mean that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and other religionists will be able to lead prayers at schools now? We'll have to see if the evangelicals take legal action when non-Christians exercise their free speech rights.
Not likely. Mostly white wing evangelical christians/catholics want our America turned into their theocratic fantasy, and forget the 1st amendment regarding separation of church and state. And I guess forget if you have different faiths/beliefs. Imagine from John Lennon seems appropriate to me at the moment.
One of my favorite songs!
Great idea!
Close the classroom. It's no longer safe. Build village learning environments. End child apartheid. It's all possible. There are plans available. Individualized curriculum. Teachers' job descriptions change, but teachers don't lose their jobs. We can do it. Much better way to educate. School boards' job descriptions change. Everything changes. Communities will grow young and grow stronger. It's the key to solving many, many problems. Let's go this other way.
I appreciate your honesty in portraying this episode in your young life. I, too, felt uncomfortable surrounded by the xmas songs celebrating a holiday my family did not believe in. It has made me more sensitive to potential experiences that we take for granted but may make others feel uncomfortable. I firmly believe church and state should be separate…..we live in a country where there are many opportunities to practice ones religious beliefs….without imposing it upon others.
Thank you for these thoughts, Linda. They should be expressed more often, especially by the Nation's leaders.
YES, you put into words what "othering" feels like. It's a version of microagression, felt routinely by those who arent Christian, white, or whatever the category is of those in charge. Its constant, low-level humiliation and should not be protected by this type of ruling.
Why is is, Bob, that you renew my faith in people? Maybe it is because you are one of the few genuine people I know.. I love hearing about your life and how you handled it.
The first time I saw Mr. Reich speak on a Sunday news show during the Clinton administration, I knew he was something special. I thought him an honest man, who didn’t have the self-interest of his peers. Decades later, he has not let me (or our country) down.
Yes, you feel the way I feel. Thank you for sharing that!
For those not Catholic, the abortion ruling similarly establishes Catholic doctrine as dominant. Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, Barrett, Kavanaugh, & even Roberts seem to have no problems with ghat. Alas! For our Constitution, our Republic, and our rights
It’s now rolling backwards. I’m worried that trump and his grifter associates will keep chipping away at the Constitution.
I was a Mormon. This opinion and its “validity” is shared by the hierarchy dsof that group/faith too. Catholic doctrine is not alone on this subject although I admit there are too many Catholics on the Court. I remember when John Kennedy ran for the Presidency his Catholic faith was initially an impediment. He had to admit that his actions as President would not be controlled by the Pope in Rome.
I had a parallel experience. I was in sixth grade (in a mostly Jewish elementary school in Los Angeles) and we had a Christmas celebration where we had to sing Christian songs. I said I was Jewish (my family was similarly more cultural than religious) and if the other kids wanted to do it that was fine with me, but I didn't want to. It felt wrong. The school said I had to. My parents said don't make trouble, just stand in the back and mouth the words. I said it still didn't feel right and held firm. Finally they said "if you want to sit in a room by yourself while everybody else is having fun you can." But it really did feel like a fundamental violation of who I was and I'm sure to other kids who didn't speak up.
Not only did I sing along, I remember all the lyrics -- public school taught the Protestant work ethic, and specifically Presbyterian culture. I was asked to perform in outside productions.
In those days, teachers were mandated to read the bible. My home room teacher for 3 years inspected me for horns and cloven hooves and every day read the John NT passages where Jews killed Jesus. When Kennedy ran for president, she told us that if Kennedy won, holy water would be piped into the White House.
Eventually Supreme Court cases eliminated prayer in school and reading the bible,
Now it seems it's back to the future.
Some teachers refuse to administer prayers in their classrooms. I never allowed prayers in my 18 years of teaching.
And I recall during my first year of teaching, I overheard the Kindergarten teacher calling the class to attention for "the prayer" AFTER the Supreme Court ruling. The year was 1967.
Some people are sure their religion is the ONLY right one. I am an atheist, but I certainly don't believe that everyone else must accept my belief.
If it gives you any comfort, I've always been uncomfortable when the prayers in public began, even having been raised Presbyterian (but not any longer). It makes a lot of us white "Christians" uncomfortable also. It did feel good, singing in the high school choir in 1960, including Jewish Hanukah songs along with "Silent Night." About 40 percent of students were Jewish or non-Christian. Now I wonder how the Jewish kids must have felt, since most of the songs we sang were Christian.
When it’s mutual sharing, and more than one tradition is honored, I think it’s good. More Jewish songs should have been sung.
You’re right.
Coercing kids to pray? What next?
Good question.
I played Mary (mother of Jesus) in a Presbyterian church play when I was about 12 or so. Had a huge crush on the kid who played Joseph....and it was all I could do to keep from laughing as I was out or New Orleans and the tent revival meetings that my Grandmother used to go to.
Suffice it to say, that I was brought up a Southern Baptist and was glad my stepdad was a Unitarian!
I am now an Atheist.
I was in Nativity plays in my grade school many years ago; it would have been about 1940-50 or so. My kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Blackford, remembered years later that these Nativity scenes went on daily for awhile in season; I was the Virgin Mary at least once. But then I said to her one day, “Mrs. Blackford, I want to play God.” She tried to come up with a good argument against it, but I persisted. Finally I just went into the Nativity scene and stood there. That’s all. Just stood. I guess that’s what I felt God would do.
Love it!
Good for you, Diane!
Someday we'll all be Unitarian, like about half the people of the American revolution of 1776.
Not I.
I was just acting out when I said that. Unitarians do not proselytize.
It is based in Boston...
I played Mary too! And to this day remain fucked by a masculine God whether I like it or not! It was an Episcopal elementary school and wasn’t that pushy besides stuff like that.
Divorce is the only answer...
Wow. You poor thing, Professor Reich! What a scar you bared to us this evening - thank you. I am so sorry you had to go through that torturous Christmas pageant.
The SCOTUS has run amok. I am deeply saddened and deeply disturbed at the biased rulings of the justices who are allowing their own extreme beliefs to sway their decisions. God help us! (pun intended) 🌻
I missed the pun. ????