I’ve also observed here in Los Angeles, that some of the protesters seem to be in it for an opportunity to raise heck and cause trouble. So, it seems that there’s more than one motive at play here.
Same here. Is it possible that right-wing Trump supporters are purposely igniting violence at these protests to hurt Biden in the polls? You can be both pro-Jew and pro-Palestine at the same time while protesting genocide. Biden can only do so much with the war in Israel. I understand people’s anger with him. I am angry too, but I also understand his limitations. Biden may not have handled Netanyahu as well as I would have liked, but consider the absolute disaster Trump would have made of the situation. It requires finesse and restraint. Trump has neither. It definitely does not make me less likely to vote for Biden. Do these people really think Trump is the answer? I hope not.
Lost: The fact that T.Rump would be worse is beside the point---TFG isn't in the Oval Office now. And deploring Biden's actions [or lack thereof] doesn't translate to supporting T.Rump. This isn't a zero-sum situation; that is, NOT liking A doesn't automatically equate to liking B.
Of course, Biden can't control Netanyahu, but Biden does hold the keys to the store. If he told Bibi there'd be no more aid to Israel without a ceasefire---and he stood firm---I'll bet the ceasefire would happen within a few days. Scolding and wagging a finger at Netanyahu does nothing.
The comment to which I responded relates to Biden's actions, so I'm not talking about parties. I'm referring to actions and issues. One can disapprove of how Biden is acting regarding Gaza and still not support TFG. Asserting that if one doesn't wholeheartedly stand behind Biden, then one must, by definition, be a TFG fan....no. That's equivalent to saying that an anti-Zionist is automatically anti-semitic. Or saying that supporting Gazans means condoning Hamas' attack. Neither is true.
I'm appalled that American bombs are being used to kill civilians, including women and children, and Biden has bypassed Congress to supply them to Israel. In no way does that mean I want to see T.Rump anywhere but in a jail cell.
I think that you might be oversimplifying how these things work... Please keep in mind that Netanyahu is clearly in the bag with the Republicans and has backstabbed Obama/Biden previously, and now Biden -
repeatedly. The people of Israel wnat him gone, and tried, since he is criminally indicted (sound familiar?) Biden, and Blinken, have been relentlessly working to resolve the things - beem tp tje Middle East? This is incredibly complex, and delicate, and it has only been through US diplomacy that any Arab countries even recognize Israels's right to exixt...
I need someone to explain to me how the hell taking over a college building and destroying it and making demands does anything but bring about the opposite results. If the protests are successful in turning away the youth vote, we get Trump, and Gaza gets carpet bombed...
Complex diplomacy is working to obviate this outcome - these degenerating take-overs as happened at Columbia & UCLA are bringing it about...
"Netanyahu is clearly in the bag with the Republicans and has backstabbed Obama/Biden previously, and now Biden - repeatedly."
Exactly my point. Trying to deal with Netanyahu is a fool's errand. The only thing that will stop him is to deny him the aid he wants and needs. You say Biden and Blinken have been working to resolve things. Yes, they've been talking for months, to little avail. Biden gives Netanyahu stern warnings, and Bibi ignores them, so Biden gets more stern. And so on.
Dealing with Netanyahu is like dealing with t***p: the only way to get through to him is to hit him where it hurts.
Bill, I agree with your assessment. Blinken has been to the Middle East 18 times, including eight times to Israel since October 7. Most people don’t understand that we have some 16 agreements with Israel, since 1953 and four of these are specific to military engagement. So if Israel is invaded, we have to respond to supply weapons and support. These agreements were largely written during Republican administrations. If Biden attempted to not abide by the agreements, the Republicans are standing by to pounce on him with appearances on all the media to criticize him for abrogating America’s agreements with a non-NATO ally. The week after the October 7 atrocity both Biden and Blinken traveled to APEC in San Francisco ware Lincoln delivered a message to Israel’s foreign minister that the only solution the United States would accept would be a resolution that entailed Palestine having its own state with Israel, having nothing to do with Palestine and Hamas would be gone. The bombing of Innocent Palestinians in Gaza needed to stop immediately, and of course, Netanyahu proceeded to ignore our policy. People are not recognizing that Biden has a little choice in sending support and weapons to Israel because of these written agreements. They can be found on the Secretary of State website under foreign affairs Right on the landing page. In Jan 2006 elections were held in Palestine for a nude ministration following PLO. The parameters were that anyone allowed on the ballot had to be a non-terrorist without weapons. George Bush, Senior was Pres and Connie Rice was SOS in the administration in 2006.
They failed to vet Hamas. Hamaswas not favored by the majority of Palestinians and yet they won. They went to the polling places with weapons and threatened voters. And they did this, despite places being you UN monitored. The three headed snake, Putin, Trump and Netanyahu are behind this invasion by Hamas. Please note also that when Lincoln had nearly reached a cease-fire IIran bombed Israel, we would all go along way as citizens if we would self educate to the agreements that exist that Biden has to abide by. And we would go an even longer distance in helping electrum if we would explain these agreements to our fellow citizens, especially younger folks who haven’t lived through this kind of history. I’m not criticizing anything that you have written and I’m writing this response regarding the agreements that the United States has made with Israel because others on this Substack are making claims that Biden holds the keys to not sending weapons. He does not. It’s all in the agreements. Indeed, one can be anti-bombing Palestine and pro a two party solution without blaming Israeli citizens. The blame goes with Netanyahu, who has set himself up as a dictator.
“We get Trump, and Gaza gets carpet bombed”. Though this is no doubt true, please explain how that is any different to now? It’s already getting carpet bombed, and America is profiting from it by selling the bombs! They will also profit from all the oil and gas that is under Gaza - the Americans and Israelis are already building a pier in Northern Gaza… makes you wonder if this is really that much about October 7th after all…
Students threatening to withhold their vote is sensible to me - politicians are meant to represent their constituents. If they don’t, they don’t deserve their vote. It’s a chance to actually get some representation, instead of being ignored because the Democrats have scared you with cries of “think how bad Trump will be!”. How convenient for them. That way they can say all the nice words and then just do whatever their donors want them to do, and completely ignore their constituents.
Denise I understand you are appalled as we all are. I responded more fully to you below, but please go to the state department website and read our agreements that began in 1953 including the four military agreements that are requiring intervention, support, weapons, and ammunition in the case Israel is invaded. Biden has not made a policy on his own. These policies have existed since 1953 and they’re cumulative and they’re binding and they are made by republican administrations. He has sent secretary of State Blinken to the mid state times and to Israel eight times, with the most recent trip last month. Each time the messages stopped the bombing, we are supporting a two state solution and that’s the only resolution we will accept, you will not have any part of any new Palestine government, that is the only resolution we will accept, stop Bombing innocences. And Biden calls Netanyahu every single day to tell him “knock it off.” Netanyahu is supported by Trump and Putin so the three headed snake is behind ramping up the discord at Biden’s expense. You can find those documents to read and I hope you wellness Secretary of State website, military affairs section right on the front landing page. They’re binding and the only way we can reverse them to a blue bicameral Congress, and re-elect Biden. One further note: things were messy with the PLO and the United States had supported the Palestinian elections. George Bush Junior was president, Connie Rice was secretary of state.
The parameters were that candidates for office could not be terrorist or have weapons. Hamas fit both categories and George Bush Junior and Condelezza Rice failed to properly vet the candidates. Showed up at UN monitored polling stations with guns. they threatened the voters even though less than half Palestinians were in favor of Hamas and Hamas was elected with no election since. so now we have discord on our campuses with young folks not understanding the history and Connie Rice and George Bush Junior are silent
"And Biden calls Netanyahu every single day to tell him 'knock it off.'”
And those calls are having zero effect. Why? Because Biden is telling Netanyahu to knock it off, while at the same time he's doing end runs around Congress to send shipments of weaponry. Words vs. actions. Netanyahu is doing exactly what he wants, no matter what Biden says, because he CAN.
Agreements can be cancelled when necessary. Never thought that US foreign diplomacy is a prisoner of agreements made in a different time and a different cause.
Can we at least make the distinction between defensive and offensive weapons? Israel should not be questioned in any attempts to defend itself (eg, its recent successful implementation of the “Iron Dome” in defending itself against Iranian attack), however providing monetary support for or actual offensive weaponry to Israel is utterly immoral as long as Netanyahu stays in place and the Gaza Genocide continues.
Palestine elected Hamas. Hamas started a war. Hamas is hiding behind civilians and claiming that it's mostly women and children dying while not actually counting the difference between combatants and non-combatants. No one with a heart wants to see people suffering like this. But if they just end the war now, no conditions, Hamas will just start planning the next attack which means more murders of civilians, more rapes, more kidnapping children and old people. They've said so openly. So where's the conversation about that? Biden actually has to contend with that reality whereas protesters can just feel happy the bombing has stopped and go on with their lives.
And you know, Israel hasn't actually occupied Gaza since 2005. They have severe checks on Gaza because Hamas has promised to keep attacking. If your neighbor swore to kill you and your children and take your house, how high a wall would you build?
jfx24, the majority of Palestinians did not support Hamas in 2006 for the first and only election they have ever had. Hamas was never vetted properly by Bush Junior and Condelezza Rice the then-secretary of state. The parameters for anyone being on the ballot were that they could not be terrorists with weapons; however, Hamas were terrorists with weapons everyone knew it. Connie and Bush Junior sat on their hands as they are doing today with their mouths closed.
Hamas trotted around to UN monitored voting places and threatened Palestinians, and they were then elected by default. The majority of Palestinians did not then and do not today support him; however, they are taking the brunt of Israel’s retaliation from Hamas actions. Biden has said repeatedly that he wants a two parties to State solution with Israel, having nothing to do with the government governance of Palestine, and Hamas being entirely removed from the country of Palestine. Anytime Aziz fire has been closed. Thanks to Lincoln‘s negotiations over 18 trips to the mid East and eight trips to Israel since October 7, 2023, Hamas ramp up there, terrorist activities, and Iran supports them. And of course, you know that Putin supports Iran. And he is a member of the three headed snake, Putin, Netanyahu and Trump. And the three headed snake: Putin, Netanyahu and Trump are delighted any time discord is present. That includes our current discord in the United States. Not supporting Biden is supporting Trump, who will be a dictator from day one. That not might not be everyone’s favorite choice, but it is the choice to have our democracy. Trump has stated that he gets along well with dictators. He is a dictator at heart.
I am as appalled by Netanyahu as the next person, and his two main motives are no doubt too stay in power and to avoid going to prison the moment he gets out of it. But as for your statement about conflating antisemitism and anti-Zionism, the fact that the term Zionist has been Introduced since October 7 to Americans itself does not seem accidental. It’s a term that has long been used pejoratively by preachers of genocide against the Jews, such as Hamas, who are open about their aspirations to slaughter every Jew in the world, according to their charter. Zionism simply means a belief in the existence of the state of Israel. Anyone who doesn’t is anti-Semitic, especially knowing that the land between the river and the sea is the land of the ancient Israelites, who were kicked off that land Millennia before the term Palestinian was invented in the 20th century; And that 3 million Jews returned to it who had no desire to leave their homelands in Europe until they were thrown off their homelands and 2/3 were Slaughtered. That’s when the UN, the British, and the world came to agree with the original Zionist from the Middle East who began to return to their homeland that Jews needed a state or they would continue to be subject to slaughter every time we have a period like now, when antisemitism is rearing its ugly head. So I would argue that if you believe it should not be a state of Israel, which is what it means to be an anti-Zionist, you are Not only an antisemite but are calling for the genocide of the Jewish people, Because without a homeland, or in a “one state solution” without the “Apartheid” In Israel, Jews would have no protection from the most ancient, virulent, and Omnipresent form of racism, antisemitism, which has led to the greatest genocide in human history by massive or orders of magnitude.
Zionism has become a militant, extremist movement. Zionists are no longer satisfied with the state of Israel, a Jewish homeland. They want to take over the West Bank and Gaza. They won't accept a two-state solution. Many American Jews no longer support Zionism.
Opposing the actions of Israel’s government, including land seizure and the carnage in Gaza, does NOT equate with antisemitism.
The original formation of Israel involved violently displacing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, stealing their property, and blocking their right to self-determination — all patently illegal under both League of Nations and UN.
Why then aren't you appalled at HAMAS using their own people and hostages as human shields. Why aren't you appalled at HAMAS using US Aid and assistance to build an army of 5 brigades (along with Iranian training, weapons material and assistance) to massacre and rape2,000 Jews.
DoublestandardsDenise? Only Jews are bad people and commit war crimes?
Arabs - Muslims have genocidal intentions it is in the Quran, the hadith, the HAMAS covenant. The State of Israel has no genocidal intentions, though the old testament is chock full of genocide from Jericho to the Almelkites, but that is not Judaism today, Well maybe the Orthodox settlers, but what they are about is ethnic c;leansing of the west bank, whereas Muslims are for genocide of Jews.
Ethnic cleansing IS genocide. That's the definition.
You've dumped all possible reactions to all possible ramifications of everything going on in Israel and Gaza into one bucket, and you're drawing conclusions and positing equations that don't add up.
Being appalled at the carnage in Gaza does NOT equate to supporting Hamas. Being appalled at what Netahyahu is doing does NOT equate to hating Jews. And so on.
I've framed my discussion surrounding this post around Biden's policy regarding Netanyahu's actions. Imputing various views to me relative to other aspects of the situation is both unfair and inaccurate. You assume much too much.
Denise, since 1953 we have signed some 16 agreements with Israel, and four of them are having to do with military aid and support in the event of an attack on Israel, a non-NATO ally. These agreements were made by mostly Republican administrations. Biden is obligated by law to honor these agreements. And the minute he didn’t the Republicans: who are waiting for him to abrogate them with hammer down and be on every major media station talking about the violation of agreements. at the same time, Biden has traveled to Israel to try to negotiate a peaceful resolution with Netanyahu the week after the October 7 invasion of Israel by Hamas, Biden and Secretary of State Blinken attended APEC in San Francisco. Blinken informed Israel’s foreign minister that the United States message to Netanyahu was that we would only accept a two state resolution, and that when the independent Palestinian state resolution was enacted, Israel would have no part: zero part in Palestine, government or economic affairs or any part of Palestine. Hamas. Part 2 of the United States involvement would be Hamas would leave. Part three and just as important as the first two is that Biden has insisted that Israel stop the bombing and killing of innocent Palestinians. SOS Blinken has traveled to Israel eight times and he has traveled to the Middle East a total of 18 times with this message, negotiating with Netanyahu and middle East leaders. President Biden speaks to the press about his phone calls to Netanyahu almost daily. He has told him to knock off the bombing, and when Blinken was close to a settlement with the Mideast leaders with Palestine, Hamas and Israel, suddenly I ran, entered the fray and bombed Israel. So first of all the keys are not in Biden‘s hands. He’s bound by prior existing Republican initiated agreements. The keys are in Netanyahu‘s hands and Netanyahu is part of the three headed snake that is, Netanyahu, Trump, and Putin. They don’t want discord in Palestine to end, and they don’t care about innocent deaths. Every single Republican politician knows about these agreements because they have to reinstate them when the sunset clauses happen. George Bush Junior and Connie Rice were in office when Hamas came to power in 2006. The elections of January 26 2006 were UN monitored. The parameters were that anyone on the ballot had to be a non-terrorist with no weapons. It was known that Hamas had weapons and they trotted around to the voting stations and threatened voters. This was during a time when fewer than 50% of Palestinians supported Hamas. They did not want terrace to be governed by terrorists. George Bush Junior and Condelezza Rice failed to vet Hamas. Palestine has only had a single election. Connie and George are curiously silent about the atrocities. They are not speaking up. They are not condemning Hamas and they are not acknowledging their role in failing to vet Hamas. The most significant thing that you and others can do is to go on the state department website and then go to the military affairs section, which is very easy to find it posted on the landing page. That there you will find it on the front page all of the agreements with Israel. Read them all. Notice the dates and notice who was in office as president during those negotiations. When they were negotiated, we didn’t think we would have a Trump. We didn’t think we would have a Netanyahu. And we didn’t think we would have a Putin to make a three headed snake to create this vicious. after you’ve read the documents, explain them to the millennials, Gen Z, Gen Y - all younger folks with whom you interact who haven’t lived through this history. And please revise your statement that the keys to the store are held by Biden. He absolutely wants to end this atrocity and he has from October 7. Biden is not able to abrogate those agreements. Please read them. And then please spread the word that they exist, they easy to find and they are binding.
Israel isn't listening to anything Blinkin or Biden says. It's all dissipating into thin air. Netanyahu has repeatedly said there won't be two states.
As for military aid agreements, the U.S. has already sent billions of dollars' worth of weaponry. We've held up our end of the deal. Sending Israel endless shipments of bombs violates the Leahy Law, but no one is addressing that transgression.
Netanyahu is a colleague of Trump and Putin, and they are working to keep Biden from being reelected. It would go along way toward keeping Trump out of power, which is our real aim here isn’t it, if our fellow citizens, especially younger folks who have not lived through the history, understood that Biden‘s hands are tied by agreements made beginning in 1953 including four military support agreements.
I don't accept that U.S. military support agreements extend to assisting genocide.
As well, Hamas is no real military threat to Israel. Iran is, yes, but the U.S. presence is the security in that regard. There's no military reason for the U S. to still be sending weaponry to Israel.
Leahy does not apply to Israel. It applies to ‘security forces’ with whom the U.S. does not have written agreements or treaties. The U.S. has written agreements covering military cooperation with Israel, the Taiwan agreement (I suggest reading that one) and recently a trilateral with Japan and Korea. The transgression is NG Netanyahu: who is working with Putin to help Trump to defeat Biden. Please read the agreements with Israel on the State Department website - I understand your outrage but it’s not helpful to misquote Leahy and misappropriate blame to Biden.
I'm not misquoting Leahy. There's been no official determination---YET---of human rights violations in Gaza, but more reports are coming out every day. World opinion is indicating that wanton killing of women, children, and aid workers constitutes war crimes. Even former Senator Leahy believes "his" law applies to Israel.
Agreements can be cancelled when necessary. Never thought that US foreign diplomacy is a prisoner of agreements made in a different time and a different cause.
People don't even bother to read the first 5 paragraphs of Hamas's charter, where they tell the world what they think of Jews and a two-state solution. Why would they get off their lazy asses to read treaties? Information has never been more accessible, and people are more uninformed than ever, like this person Denise, who thinks the ICC is a serious organization. I'll bet she has no idea who the chief prosecutor is. She probably takes the UN seriously also.
Of course. Hamas wanted to be part of the two state solution to keep running their police state just like the moolah in Iran. Hamas needs. to go. Period. and they never should have been on the ballot in 2006 because they were a terrorist organization with the weapons and Bush Junior failed to vet them. They were at polling stations that were monitored by the UN carrying weapons and threatening people. Palestinians didn’t want them in 2006 and they don’t want them now. They are murderers..
Sorry, you are grossly naive. Israel has been under attack from the Arab world since its creation in 1948. please read and ask yourself, is it really Israels fault that no Palestine exists, or is it because the Arabs first concern is to destroy the jewish state.
History shows that the Palestinians have refused many offers for peace. Netanyahu is a boor, but it is decades of Arab hate that got us here.
The ICC is a serious organization. You may not know how it works, though. It cannot go into Israel (a sovereign nation) and arrest Netanyahu. Only if Netanyahu "leaves" Israel can he be intercepted and arrested. Most of their prior arrests have been with heads of African nations. Arresting Netanyahu would be a departure. Now, the ICC has one disadvantage: it does not have its own army or police force. My guess is that the funding is not there. Also, one more fact. China, Russia, the US, India, and other rich nations did not sign onto the ICC. One can understand why this is so. However, the Palestinian territories did sign on in recent years, and that is the reason that the ICC can intervene. But intervene only in regard to the slaughter in Gaza, and the arrest of higher-ups in Hamas.
So, it's vote for the clown because the idiot will be worse. In hindsight, the best event to occur in the early 21stC was the Democratic Party losing both House, Senate and Presidency due to the fact that they counted on the electorate fearing the Republicans more that holding Democrats accountable for their gutless, bankrupt polices. Stein is preferable to the three manos. And drop the wasted vote crap. Following that logic, only those who vote for the winner don't waste their vote. Palpable nonsense.
And what impact do you suppose that would have on the countries in the region, who would be emboldened and encouraged to act, and who would be weakened, and what the consequences of that would be? What impact do you think that would have on our allies' confidence in our commitments to them?
And don't you dare say something as evasive and empty as, "I don't care. I just want the killing to stop." That's not an answer. It's an evasion. Everyone but Hamas wants the killing to stop.
That's not true. Israel has to keep the killing going as a subterfuge to keep stealing Palestinian land and shooting those who protest by throwing stones.
Look, Netanyahu has to keep the "war" going against Palestinians, bomb the Iranian consulate, and anything else he can think of, in order to stay in power, and in order to go along with Ministers Itimar Ben-Givr and Bezalel Smotrich, who have him by the b***s. If their two small far-right parties leave Netanyahu's coalition, he would cease to be prime minister. He would then have to face his three trials. So Netanyahu is between a rock and a hard place.
Does anyone wonder why the Hamas attack, the West Bank slaughter of Palestinians, and the war are all happening now? The answer is Netanyahu has to stay out of prison, far-right Israeli settlers want complete control of the West Bank, and Smotrich and Ben-Givr want Israel to become a religious state, which would have dire consequences for the future of the country. According to a previous Israeli prime minister, Ben-Givr and Smotrich are "extorting" Netanyahu. His word.
Which countries do you mean, exactly? Much of the world has condemned Israel's actions. Press reports say the ICC is considering issuing an arrest warrant for Netanyahu, on war crimes charges.
Our allies would see that we'll support them to the point at which their actions are unconscionable, which is a good thing. They'd see that the U.S. will advocate for innocent civilians and condemn war crimes.
And by the way, stuff that "don't you dare" BS. You can't dictate how people respond.
I agree, Peter. The Hamas attack was unquestionably terrorism, and I personally don't see a justification for that, ever, but Israel most definitely isn't lily-white in this equation.
Absolutely not true. If the war stops, Ben-Givr and Smotrich leave the coalition. And Netanyahu ceases to be prime minister.
The key to this whole mess are these two ministers, who think Palestinians are animals, and want them destroyed. They want ALL Palestinians out of Israel, one way or another. Netanyahu has to keep the balls spinning in the air. If this sounds crazy, I have proof.
I've not confirmed the report I heard last fall which suggested Putin was funding Hamas or coordinating the Oct 7th attack, plus associations between Iran & Putin; essentially a coordinated effort to divert US attention from Ukraine so we've got this dual threat occupying our time and resources, which divides our country further and helps elect Donnie Darko Drumpf to 2nd term...then Jared Kushner can do all that prime real estate development once IDF & Bibi clear it of all those pesky civilians...it's freakin horrific the flat affect Kushner spoke with at Harvard(?) months ago.
About Putin, people use his name anytime they need a villain. The war between Ukraine and Russia could have been avoided. The West has misunderstood Putin for years. I really doubt that he is involved in trying to remove all Palestinians from Israel. The real villains here are Ben-Givr and Smotrich, who have an agenda to rid Israel of all Palestinians, and others who stand in the way of Israel becoming a religiously ruled state. That is a fact. Sadly, Netanyahu is being coerced to kill off the Palestinian population, just so he can stay in power. He's doing what Smotrich and Ben-Givr want.
As I've said, Netanyahu HAS to keep the war going. And he will, because that is preferable to losing his status as prime minister. He will do anything to stay in power, because the alternative is devastating.
The hostages are dead, let's be honest: with supplies into the area cutoff by Netanyahu IDF AND THE FAMILIES OF THE HOSTAGES! Yes, they've been trying to form human blockade to prevent supplies from entering the area where their loved ones are held and dependent on Hamas for survival items like FOOD WATER & FIRST AID.
There's no easy answers, but we have to inform ourselves and each other in a respectful manner--while constantly mindful of the threat Americans-us, here will face this fall...No matter WHO wins, there's a continuing threat to democracy through January 2025 and maybe longer 😬
Biden isn't the sovereign in this instance the governor are. It is not Biden's role to solve this problem. His role is to only support the rights of Freedom of Speech and to Gather along with the responsibility to respect the law and the rights of the protestors fellow citizens.
It's the governor's responsibility with the aid of the university administration to sort out the rights and responsibilities so that everyone avoids overreach. What's overreach? When the rights of one citizen collides with another citizen's, that's when the governor needs to step in help sort things out. Some of it is simple enough. If the protestors are seeking resolution from an entity, then it must first be determined whether the protestors have standing and then whether the entity has the power to change the grievance of the protestors. If that is all sorted and are answered in the affirmative, then negotiations begin.
Elimination of protestors without standing, no legitimate reason to be involved, must happen quickly and without intimidating protestors with standing. Physical protection of protestors with standing is a fundamental responsibility of government at all levels even if the protestors are protesting government.
Unfortunately, the protesters fail to understand that when the cause destruction of property and occupation of buildings, their message gets lost and the story line becomes about their lawlessness and destruction of property.
Non violent protests all the messaging to stay focused on their moral outrage. But there is an element that just wants to do violence. Just look at what happened with the post George Floyd incident protests. The message got lost in the violence.
I agree 100% about the violence, Harry. That's never OK. According to my [admittedly limited] reading about the violence in the Floyd protests, it was rare, and was mostly committed by opportunists wanting to profit from the unrest.
No, I don't think occupying buildings is the answer. You're absolutely correct that doing so obliterates the message of the protest.
Exactly. Biden holds the position of the most powerful president on the face of the earth and is the main supplier of Israeli arms. We need to stop giving him a pass.
I agree that the hostages should be released. But before anything else, stop the killing of civilians.
And at this point, Israel isn't acting like an ally. It's acting like a user---a user of U.S. military aid while it defies pretty much the rest of the world.
Well, Fay, the IDF is attacking Rafah, and while Biden paused the delivery of 2000-pound bombs, he's pushing for tank and mortar ammo to be supplied. As WaPo put it, "The decision underscores the administration’s reluctance to defy pro-Israel donors in the Democratic Party who criticized Biden’s decision last week to withhold the shipment."
Biden, Shumer, and Pelosi told the Israelis: we support you but not your current leaders. It is now up for the Israelis to do what is in their best interest, which is obvious to some of us, but not to them, because the Israeli media is controlled and censored by their government. To force that government to change course would require a lot more than stopping arms shipments to Israel.
Perhaps if we withdraw all aid and actively join the countries who are condemning Israel's slaughter of civilians, the message will get through. But even if not, to repeat, we must stop being complicit in genocide. That's the least we can do.
I personally don't care what happens to the Israeli government; Netanyahu is their problem. Rather similar to the situation here with 45---we broke it, up to us to fix it.
No Denise it is not beside the point. Because if the tea read leaders rare correct, Trump will be the next President and he will solve the campus protest problem, by rounding up and expelling Muslims, he has said that is his plan, and they rare part of the 11 million immigrants that he seeks to expel.
If you are truly concerned about the Gazans,and are not a HAMAS ally, then vent your spleen on the cowards that started this by wanton slaughter and rape,then ran back to Gaza using their own people and hostages as human shields.
I'm quite well aware of what t***p says he's going to do, William. Aside from the fact that he hasn't won the election yet (I don't believe he will) he's not in office now. This current discussion revolves around what Biden is doing, or not doing. Couching every argument in the "t***p is worse" mantra merely muddies the waters.
Trump is going to win, if the Muslims threaten to sit out the election. There are only three vital swing states,Wi, MI, PA and there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in each, and in 2020 Biden won each state by tens of thousands.
So if yhe asshats follow through, they will rue the day, because Biden has said what he is going to do to Muslims, round them up and deport them. and he wil because he will enact Project 2025.
Focusing on Biden, and here is only 6 more months to the election is a fools errand plays into the hands of the MAGAts and Trump.
I agree but it also needs to be remembered that in the past presidents have simply not given more weapons and ended the entire foreign conflict. Biden surely can do more and his admin knows it. Look at how many potential pro-Zionist admin he has… I think that’s the core of the issue and they’re being very selfish risking not only this important election but thousands of human lives in this way.
I agree completely, but I will still vote for Biden even though I’m very disappointed in how he has handled Netanyahu. I wholeheartedly support the peaceful student protesters. Unfortunately, they are not being allowed to protest peacefully. I fully blame the Republicans for this too.
Biden has personally supported genocide and condemned student protesters, implying they are the source of the violence. I could never vote for him.
Almost all of the violence at the encampments has come from pro-zionist attackers and from the police who showed their power and their willingness to beat, tear gas, and even shoot at peaceful students.
Of course it's possible, in fact probable, that Trump militia are igniting things, just as they did in summer 2020 BLM protests .. That time many of them were apprehended - Boogaloo Bois in particular - setting the Minneapolis police station on fire, a move that launched the turn to violence - and others killed federal police out in California ... And all the while, they were serving up Trump's preferred platform: run on crime and violence and mayhem, as all allegedly being Democratic doings ... and now his absurd speech yesterday in Wisconsin, including spreading rumor-lies about Biden's stance in re campus protests...
People loot then burn an Office Depot Friday in Minneapolis. Protests continued following the killing of George Floyd, who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police officers on Memorial Day. John Minchillo | AP Photo file
Updated: 3:11 p.m., May 31, 2020
On his way home from a protest Friday night in Minneapolis, Jonathan Turner Bargen encountered a white man in a red pickup truck. The man was carrying an assault rifle and a handgun, Turner Bargen said. Then he noticed a symbol from the far-right militia group Three Percenters affixed to the truck.
“I circled back and took pictures of the vehicle. I was concerned about why they were present at the downtown protest, and had no idea who to notify,” said Turner Bargen in an email to MPR News.
State officials, protesters and residents say they’re alarmed by the presence of extremists who may be using Twin Cities protests against the police killing of George Floyd as cover to burn down buildings and face off with law enforcement. Hundreds of buildings have been damaged and many totally burned in recent days.
Gov. Tim Walz said state officials estimated that 80 percent of the people involved in the violence and destruction were from outside the state.
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But according to an analysis of Hennepin County jail records, 83 percent of people who were booked in connection with the protests over a 24-hour stretch starting Friday were from Minnesota, and 56 percent were from Minneapolis or St. Paul.
Walz said that what began as peaceful demonstrations in response to the killing of George Floyd in police custody on May 25 have turned into something else.
“The situation in Minneapolis is no longer in any way about the murder of George Floyd,” Walz said at a morning news conference. “It is about attacking civil society, instilling fear, and disrupting our great cities.”
St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter said Saturday morning that none of the people arrested in St. Paul Friday night were from Minnesota. However, after MPR News requested arrest records, police confirmed that seven of the 18 people arrested in connection to the protests from Friday night to early Saturday morning were from Minneapolis or St. Paul. Four came from Wisconsin, Texas and North Dakota.
Carter corrected himself later in the day, saying he had been given inaccurate information.
Accounts of armed menProtesters and onlookers have posted numerous videos and accounts of confrontations with white men on social media, sometimes including symbols associated with fringe groups that originated online.
Many people have also told MPR News reporters of witnessing armed men in Minneapolis.
Bridget Schumann was out for a run near Calhoun Square in south Minneapolis on Friday night when she saw a truck that was being driven aggressively, honking and intimidating other drivers. The truck had a big white sticker on the back of the cab with the OK sign symbol associated with white supremacists.
“There were two men in the driver and passenger seat and they were wearing camo bulletproof vests and they were armed,” she said.
Schumann watched them get out of the truck and walk around in an apartment building parking garage like they were looking for something. She saw them scream at a woman leaving the garage. After they saw Schumann again, she got scared and called her boyfriend to pick her up.
“Very out of place. They weren’t cops, they weren’t National Guard,” Schumann said. “It was all just really hostile.”
The still smoking Hexagon Bar in South Minneapolis on Friday, the morning after it burned during protests in response to George Floyd's death.
Nate Ryan | MPR
In the predawn hours of Friday, KJ Starr watched from her yard in the Seward neighborhood, which has been especially hard hit by arson, as nearby buildings were consumed by balls of fire and billowing smoke.
With police and firefighters nowhere in sight, Starr and friends have been trying to fight fires themselves. When a nearby pizza shop went up in flames, she and some friends walked over to see what they could do. She was terrified by what she saw.
“This pickup truck of a dozen armed men just pulls up next to us,” she said. “I just did a total pivot.”
Arson at a liquor storeMinneapolis resident Rishi Ragoonanan woke up early for work on Friday morning, and saw a man who appeared to be white walk up to boxes of cardboard in the middle of a liquor store parking lot. The man lit the boxes, pushed them up against the wall of the store, and walked away.
Ragoonanan and neighbors ran outside and dragged the flaming boxes away from the wall. The liquor store was set on fire again the next night.
“None of us got any sleep for the last four days, trying to save this liquor store,” Ragoonanan said. “If this liquor catches fire, this whole neighborhood will burn down.”
Many people say they are leery of confronting those they suspect of contributing to the violence.
Turner Bargen, who saw a truck with a Three Percenters symbol on it, said he was afraid to confront the person, and afraid to call the police because he didn’t want an innocent person to get hurt by a police department that he no longer trusts.
Later he said he thought he’d made the wrong choice and wished he’d had the courage to confront the person himself. The owner of the truck, for his part, told MPR News on Sunday he has been marching with the demonstrators in support of justice for George Floyd.
The stated goals of the Three Percenters militia groups are vague, but they position themselves as protectors of the Constitution and have been associated with right-wing, anti-government causes <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/10/oregon-standoff-three-percenter-groups>. According to their official website, they aim to “get patriots to network, prepare, and petition together on a local level.”
Other groups have also turned their attention to the situation in Minneapolis. Chatter on social media suggests that far-right activists and fringe libertarian groups are seizing on the instability to provoke violence and destruction.
On the Facebook page <https://www.facebook.com/pg/bigigloobois/posts/>Big Igloo Bois, administrators have been posting callouts for members to protest in Minneapolis, with one administrator urging members to “come in peace, prepare for there to be violence.”
the counter protestors. But see links i posted just above. His influence is mostly in 'inspiring' and directing infiltrators who aren't actual protestors but pretending to be (even dressing to pass off as) protestors. They're protest-opportunists seeking to create the chaos that "justifies" armed response by (Trumpist) militia groups
The Republican Party is a subversive terrorist party & you're a traitorous anti-American troll working on behalf of the fascist tyrant Putin & his criminal puppet Benedict Donald, the Siberian Candidate.
Listen up, MAGAt. Your idiotic fascist cultism isn’t going to change any minds or influence anyone here. Why don’t you go find your “kind”? I’m sure it’s tempting to want to crash the smart, successful, interesting, creative, cool people’s party because no one invited you and you’re curious. But really: no one invited you. And it’s just weird that you’re here. Kindly see your sad little MAGAt self out. Thanks.
Maybe the over 8,500 hostages israel abducted from the West Bank should be freed as well as the tens of thousands of Palestinians it has imprisoned and tortured and starved for no crime! Even kids, for picking herbs! You want hostages released, yes, me too, but ALL on both sides, and stop the bombings, the killings, the genocide and the stealing of land! End the apartheid! Open your eyes and see what is and has been happening! Free Palestine from this horror!
I wish that people were aware of this! 'Free Them Now...' How many hostages Israel has taken, even children, and imprisoned them unlawfully...and the abuse and treatment they get in prison is awful. They have been putting zip ties so tight on the wrists and leaving them on so long that they are amputating the hands of Palestinians. Really, the israeli behavior is something out of a horror movie. And who are the victims? Why does the world not see it for what it is?? The devastation they have caused in Gaza for they October 7th resistance attack (because Palestine has a right to defend itself, especially on its land!) , was mostly caused by the occupation forces without regard for the lives of their own people. Disgusting. And the world's response to this genocide, this holocaust is equally disgusting!
Israel has stated that the hostages are secondary to their military goal of eliminating Hamas. Hamas knows that once the hostages are all released, there isn't anything that restrains the Israelis from Armageddon.
Exactly, Israel never keeps its word. Why should they? No matter what they do our government which is bought off by pro-Israel money will defend them against the world and keep sending the money.
The hostages are Hamas’ only leverage. I wonder if they are even still in Gaza.
Had Israel left Gaza and released their Palestinian hostages they would have got the Israeli hostages back. They gave a lot back during that pathetic “pause”.
But Israelis don’t want to give up on their deeply cherished dream of eliminating the Palestinians by ANY means. They demand revenge AND they want their hostages back. I’m not sure they can make up their minds which is more important. They clearly can’t choose.
Netanyahu has repeatedly refused to stop the genocide, even to get the hostages released. As far as we know the only hostages harmed were killed in Israel attacks or shot point-blank by the Israeli Occupation Forces.
There is no point on stopping now they went so deeply into Gaza. Its like sewing up the patient with cancer still inside. because the operation is costing more that estimated. Israel needs to finish Hamas permanently.
As opposed to the apartheid state of Israel, with constant ethnic cleansing, discrimination, and brutal violence, and mass detention of Palestinians without charge or trial?
This is the answer! Return the hostages and the war is over. Until you understand Arabic, you cannot understand the Palestinian mentality, and until you have been to Israel and experienced it for yourself, you really can't understand that it is truly an existential response on their part to Hamas, who are terrorists, and using their own Palestinian civilians as human shields...
Yes, I believe so. The ones who benefit from social unrest & violence at these protests are Putin, Trump, the Republican Party & the extreme right. Right-wing terrorist groups like the Proud Boys & Boogaloo Boyz infiltrated the George Floyd protests, inciting violence & looting, so why wouldn't they take advantage of these protests & do the same? Also Russia has a tremendous presence & influence on social media along with ties to Republican & other far right operatives in the US.
Yep, I'm quite sure that the flames are being fanned by the Republikkkan extremists. I have no evidence. It's just that the timing of all of this, back to the start of the genocide, is too convenient for tRump. Shit started to get real for the giant Orange Malignancy and suddenly there's an international incident, caused by an old old "friend" of tRump's, from back in the 90s. If there's a way to consolidate power in the Middle East, look at Jared Kushner, at the meetings between The Orange One and other fascistic leaders, at the promises tRump's made to his real backers. They're just going to use him to get the office, then they'll "retire" him because of his dementia, and voila! We're done.
Lost in Alabama, when the word genocide is tossed around so freely, it loses meaning and nothing is genocide, that goes for anything, including antisemitism.
The UN convention on prevention of genocide states in Art 2, that the charge of genocide requires intention, now there are some Jews, especially in the government that have stated the desire to ethnically cleanse Gaza, there is even a land speculator selling lots on the Gaza sea front, and Jared Kushner has stated that the Gaza sea front is prime real estate
But Genocide requires the intention to obliterate a whole or part of a people, and the Gazans are Arabs and except for about 20 Christians Muslim, and it is ludicrous to claim that 10 million Jews can genocide a billion Arabs.
The official Israeli position is to eliminate an existential threat ...HAMAS, and that is not genocide.
That women and children are in the way, and suffering is a fact of war, and that is called collateral damage., not genocide.
HAMAS and it's advocates and allies, toss around the word genocide as if it were Skittles, because they know that too many in the west, who lack critical thinking skills, will pick it up and moan.
There are two wars in every field of battle, the ground war and the propaganda war, in this case HAMAS, a bloody, unconscionable tertorist group that uses its own people as human shields, is wining the propaganda war, and Israel knows that and is pressing full steam ahead anyway, because if they stop, HAMAS wins, declares victory, and continues to be an existential threat to Israel.
As far as I am concerned, the Israeli right are religious fascists, of the old testament variety, and are themselves a threat to democracy and Israel is a democracy, until the right wing takes total control of the government. The same problem here in the U.S.
What I will abide is that there are those on the Israeli right, and in government, and also here in the United States, like the MAGAts and Trump family that are advocates of ethnic cleansing, in fact ethnic cleansing is a more appropriate and realistic term than genocide.
If genocide is your concern,and it is genuine, then look no further than Ukraine and I have not seen one demonstration, not a peep from the left about the ongoing genocide in Ukraine. And that is a real genocide, Putin has declared his intention to obliterate Ukrainian language, culture, identity and government.
Where or where is the left wing outrage where are the campus protests, blocking of freeways and bridges.
Actually I am glad that there are none, because the corporate media,the Putin loving Trump humpers would be using them and their actions against them in a propaganda war in which the right has proven to be terribly effective, as compared to the feeble attempts on the left.
Americans don't look kindly at protests, and protests invariably achieve the opposite of what the protesters intend.
The VN War protests actually extended the war andl loss of life,because the public reacted against the protesters.
The only reason that Nixon pulled out, was because middle America was tired of seing their sons, brothers, fathers,uncles cousins coming home in caskets.
Trump did a great deal in aggravating the situation in the first place. He encouraged Netanyahu by moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and effectively gave the green light to Jewish settlements in the Palestinian West Bank. Hamas was also against the Israel/Saudi treaty that Trump initiated; cited by some as one of the reasons for the 7th October attacks.
The withdrawal of support for Biden by those protesting against the war can only benefit Trump. We have a similar situation here with the UK Labour Party: the first set of local election results show a marked drop in votes for Labour from Muslim communities. Despite excellent results so far, Labour has lost overall control of Oldham Metropolitan Borough Council (in north west England), which has a high percentage of Muslims, as independent candidates picked up 7 seats. The loss of Muslim votes could stop Labour winning the mayoral race in the West Midlands, currently held by a Conservative.
Local elections in the UK are often used by voters to protest against a particular party or its policies, so it doesn’t necessarily mean the voting will follow the same pattern in general elections. With around 5-6 months before the general election, it leaves a lot of work to turn the support around in time.
What I find so frustrating is that by withdrawing support from the Democrats or Labour, voters are likely to end up with a government that is even less sympathetic to their cause.
If we care to learn a little lesson from history, how about this: Fifty years after the events, recordings were released in which LBJ talked to Dick Nixon just days before the 1968 election.
LBJ had been talking to the Vietnamese, hoping to strike a deal and END the fighting in 1968 — Not only would that mean our boys would come home, but it would likely have guaranteed Humphrey’s election that year.
THE RECORDING reveals that Johnson knew Nixon supporters had gone to Paris and promised the South Vietnamese a “better deal” if they held off signing the Peace Accord until after the election.
That left American anti-war protesters still in the streets right u to the election, and peopople angry with Humphrey
Um absolutely not. He is definitely not the answer. He’s a Republican in disguise. He’s funded by Republican PACs. RFKJ is actually funneling away votes for Trump, so I’ll take that.
With what examples? That’s not the majority and just takes away from the core VERY IMPORTANT point of the protests. You should define a whole by just a few especially in vital circumstances like this one.
I “should define a whole by just a few…” ? I’m not clear on what you mean when you say that.
To reiterate, I was communicating an observation I made first-hand, in person. I’m not defining any “whole” but an element of what I observed. There were busloads of outsiders, not students, brought in to camp on the university grounds. Students were prevented by those elements from attending classes (during finals, no less) or entering the library. It took the Chancellor days to ask for order from law enforcement even as unrest broke out. In short, these were assuredly not all students peacefully protesting. That may be true on some university campuses but not on several campuses in Los Angeles.
Is it really that difficult to understand students' rage at a government that is actually complicit in genocide and the intentional slaughter of innocent civilians?
I think it's misguided to focus on fringe elements that you mention. The vast majority of protesters are outraged at Israel's horrifying slaughter of women and children, while not denying Hamas' deadly, grotesque attack. But 35,000 Palestinians dead, mostly women and children? It's got to stop. And it's worth repeating that opposing Netanyahu's war is not anti-Jewish, although we must be on guard against antisemitism at all times.
I agree, 100%! There are atrocities on both sides of this issue and certainly initiated by the Hamas cowards who hide behind innocents. The rest of the Arab world has reason to get rid of Hamas as well, no doubt about it. Netanyahu is abhorred by many Israelis and he’s making an even more dangerous situation for Israelis who want the hostages released. I see the Biden Administration walking a fine line.
As to the protesters here at home, there are a number of agendas and plenty of agitators behind and within the ranks. The basic fact of wholesale slaughter is worthy of protest, of course. It’s being muddled and the messages of inhumanity is lost as a result, played by infiltrators. Let them stage their own protests and let the peaceful protests go forward in the spirit of Gandhi, Mandela, et. al.
The human brain is not fully developed until age 25, if then. Campus life is social to the extreme, and a handful of ideologues can take over a campus, most are seeking peer approval, high fives, bragging rights at coffee c klatches and keggers.
The major private universities and distinguished University of California Campuses, are the destination for the children of wealthy Arabs, and the universities are the destinations of Arab oil money endowments and fellowships.
Arabs are, by and large Muslim (except in Lebanon and the state of Israel), even there most Arabs are Muslim.
Muslims first and really their only loyalty is to the Ummah, the world wide community of Muslims. Rare indeed is the Muslim who criticizes Islam or rejects Muhammad and the Quran. There is no Muslim equivalent of a secular Jew critical of Judaism, and fundamentalist (Orthodox Jews) are even critical of Israel.
Whereas fundamentalistic Muslims are the likes of Al Qaeda, DAESH,ISK, the Ayatoolahs of Iran and the Wahhabiyyah of Saudi Arabia.
Thanks, but it doesn't get through to the the emotionally co opted. I believe that there exists a sublimated hatred of Jews in America, and the vicious attack by HAMAS on Israel, and Israels response, aided by Arab oil money, and Arab students played on that sublimated disdain or hatred.
Enabling them to deflect, even to themselves, by justifying their actions as concern for the poor civilians of Gaza and not antisemitism, but that excuse falls flat, because there was not and is not, a single demonstration against Russia, despite the fact that
Putin is conducting a real war of genocide, and has said so publicly many times. He denies the Ukrainian culture, language and state, and is bombing and killing innocent civilians, but not a single protest, no tents, no occupation of a university, no stopping traffic on freeways and bridges.
The protesters are using the Gaza war as an opportunity to finally express their utter anger openly against US foreign policy in the Middle East. The Gaza war rekindles the anger, but its origin dates back to post-9/11. US overall strategic response to al Qaeda's heinous attack on 9/11 was culturally and politically ill-informed. Hence, Arabs still blame the US for the decades-long destabilization of the region. Ironically, though, the US was the Arab leader's first call when ISIS was about to take over the region. And also explains why they have been reluctant in condemning Israel's war on Hamas, knowing well that if Hamas isn't annihilated now it could become a regional headache. That said, it's clear that they, like Biden, hope Israel would fight the war more sensibly and with compassion for human lives. But Israeli troops aren't well trained or tested in urban warfare techniques.
All that, yemi, plus the fact that there are Israeli citizens who disapprove of Netanyahu and his (some say) reckless prosecution of this current war. It can be said that he’s endangering the reputation of their country with the random slaughter of Gaza’s innocent civilians. We can only hope that both sides can be willing to root out the real culprits, the Hamas lunatics.
I am so laughing at all the conspiracy theorists here. It's easy to cast your own motivations upon people who believe that Palestinian decimation is real.
Show me your evidence.
From another's perspective you are the Trump empathizer here.
Your post seems exactly what would be posted by someone who supported Trump and wanted to sow division here amongst folks who dare to hold Israel to task for obliterating Palestinians.
So there you have it.
How does it feel to have your motivations questioned by someone who doesn't know you.
I would suspect that with all the foreign funds coming from Qatar and other middle eastern countries to universities, there is also funding going to outside groups to agitate. But they are not only focused on a cease-fire, but have expanded it to kill all the Jews, and “from the river to the sea,” without understanding where that started and what it means; same with the Red Hands and where that started. If they really wanted peace and to stop the killing, they’d also protest what Hamas did, and how they use their own civilians as shields, hiding weapons in schools, stealing truckloads of aid, etc.
And they won’t or don’t want to even admit that Hamas and other groups have ceaselessly fired rockets at Israel from Gaza, Lebanon, and now Yemen.
If they were concerned with peace, where is their outrage at what’s happening in Sudan and other African countries where people are kidnapped by groups such as Boku Haram???
RR's conclusion is the one anyone without an agenda must reach. After listening to student journalists cover Columbia protests on WKCR-FM I hear a strong temptation to draw a parallel to '68. The contrasts RR enumerates far outweigh the similarities. NYC's mayor, unable to outgrow his NYPD copness, blames Outside Agitators, mixing CUNY (open campus) andj Columbia (tightly gated) same-night arrest stats. Sorting it all out won't happen overnight.
in the early 70s i had an 8-track tape by Abbie Hoffman-i think-entitled 'Revolution for the Hell of It-there are always mixed motives,always professional agitators,but usually a legitimate concern it's best not to ignore-those politicians who ignore valid concerns and outrage for short-term perceived political advantage are the real enemies of this country
I can understand why they wouldn't vote - they are being dismissed, ignored, mocked, beaten and arrested. All for having a moral compass and demanding that their government also have one. And I also understand and respect their means of making these demands because while docile, peaceful protests may have had some impact 60 years ago they sure as hell don't anymore. As I learned when I was an anti-war protestor in 2003 and we were dismissed by Cheney et al as "a focus group". You can't ask politely for your elected government to hear your concerns, you have to break down the doors and force them to listen to you - and exact consequences when they refuse to listen to you. Withholding your vote is a concrete, visible consequence. Why should they show up for a candidate who just today basically told them he doesn't care about their opinions and won't change anything, now shut up and go away.
But one has to be strategic about it. Suppose in withholding one’s vote an even worse administration wins and is installed [e.g. Trump] as a Transgender American I am fearful of a second Trump administration.
That’s what’s the most upsetting: Biden & his admin are the ones selfishly risking this election. It does not have to be him who is the candidate and he doesn’t have to overlook the obvious majority with talk that has no action. I expected way better from him. I still will be voting for the Dem because I know how our election system is but if it were actually the democracy it should be we would have something like RCV so this wouldn’t even be a worry. This shouldn’t even be an issue in the “land of the free”…
We elected Biden to make the hard and difficult choices. I submit that he’s thinking not just of the Israelis but also the Palestinians . . . AND . . . the rest of the World. Helping either or Both sides involves calculations that if they go awry could result in a larger regional conflict or worse a World War. What seems easy to us on the sidelines is likely much less so on a global basis.
They set up the electoral college largely to win over the slave states.
Calling democracy 'mob rule' is silly and offensive.
The fact that people in sparsely-settled states have more influence than those in more populous states doesn't make sense for a democracy or for a republic.
We have an oligarchy if one votes Biden and fascism with Trump. Both outcomes don't favor life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I have supported Marianne Williamson during the primaries since she's the best and most honest candidate with a fabulous platform for the people and Earth. Check her out if you still have a primary coming your way in OR or MD. Sadly, she got blacklisted by MSN with ties to the DNC. Neither major party works for the people, so goes our democracy.
They *are* being strategic about it, by withholding their vote in the election where that action has the greatest potential impact. If you are willing to go to these lengths to petition your government for redress of grievance, why would you then turn around and violate your own principles by supporting those who ignored you and worked to suppress you, sometimes violently?
You're mixing up so many terms and concepts. Occupying buildings in the school to which you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars as a protest against occupation isn't "petitioning your government for redress of grievances." It's a self-absorbed tantrum by kids barely out of high school who couldn't tell you which river and which sea they're chanting about, and who think Hamas is a progressive, left-wing movement.
It's a tactic that helped establish civil rights, end the Vietnam war, and force the US to stop backing apartheid in South Africa. It is freedom of assembly. And if they pay 'hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend the uni, why shouldn't they have a say in what it does?
For the hundreth time, the protests that ruined Humphrey's campaign in 1968 paved the way for Nixon, who expanded the war and kept it going for his five years in office.
How do you know you are being ignored? What if your stated goals, don't match your demands? Look how well financial sanctions have worked in Ukraine. Two years and counting with Putin throwing more Russians into the fight. Every Palestinian in Gaza would be dead before defunding universities would cause a critical failure on the Israeli economy.
They’re risking the loss of our democracy and likely the freedom and safety of Transgender, Lesbian, Gay, and others that the G.O.P. and Trump would likely go after.
So you're saying that people shouldn't vote according to their values, ethics or morals? You're saying that the ballot box is *not* the place where the people should express their will and requirements of their government? Or is that whole "representative democracy" thing just a load of pretty bullshit on a piece of paper and doesn't really mean anything? That we fought the Revolutionary War for no difference from a monarchy after all, just vote for who you're told to vote for and to hell with thinking for yourself?
No we are simply asking for people to look at the bigger picture. Yes, Gaza is an issue. But is Gaza a bigger issue than the United States, a democracy, becoming a fascist state? Please look at the big picture on this.
I am too — but I am also fearful of a 2nd Biden administration, since he has proved complicit in genocide and countless war crimes and has implied that the peaceful student protests were unlawful — betraying the Constitution that he and all elected officials swore to uphold.
Why vote for a candidate who just today basically told them he doesn't care about their opinions and won't change anything, now shut up and go away?
Because not doing so will put the other guy in, and he really is worse: he won't just tell you to shut up and go away--he'll put you in prison or worse; he'll send Israel even more powerful weapons; he'll officially "recognize Gaza and the West Bank and East Jerusalem as part of Israel (like he already recognized the Golan Heights as part of Israel); maybe he'll even draft you and make you go kill Palestinians for Israel--and not just in Gaza: in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, maybe even in Lebanon and Jordan and Iran.
How do I know? Because I voted for a 3rd party candidate in 1968 because I had a moral compass and was demanding my government have one, too. Humphrey was LBJ's VP and supported the war (at least publicly), so I wasn't going to vote for him (I didn't know that, quietly, secretly, LBJ was already in peace negotiations with Ho Chi Minh). Nixon said he'd end the war, but I already knew he was a liar, and all his other policies were evil. I figured that just about everybody could see that, so there was no chance he'd win. So I voted 3rd party to make a point.
And the next day, Nixon was president, and he stretched that war in Vietnam on for years and years. He made it worse; he killed Americans and Vietnamese and Cambodians and Laotians--he spread that war out. And all his policies were even worse than I expected.
So, I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Biden. His other policies are good, and I'll hope he'll grow a spine where Israel is concerned (he's showing very small signs of one) because all the Palestinians are doomed if Trump gets in.
Well said, Maureen. Failure to consider the possible long-term consequences of your actions could make a mockery of your principles, no matter how lofty. Trump could be even worse than Nixon. In 2016, before he caved in, Florida Senator Rubio warned that entrusting Trump with our nuclear weapons was extremely dangerous. If anything, Tump is more dangerous now.
Trump is the one who moved the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and decided unilaterally to "recognize" the Golan Heights as part of Israel. Biden's partiality to Israel is what is leaving the door open to a Middle Eastern War, but, at least, the is trying to keep Netanyahu under control, especially when it came to retaliating against Iran. Trump would tell Yahoo, "Go for it!"
If by "his," you mean Biden,Trump also supports genocide and is likely to be worse, and only he or Biden can win. Voting 3rd party or not voting will just help Trump win. So what are you going to do?
In 2017, research was published on the excavation of some Canaanite burials in Israel (the Canaanites were the indigenous people of the ancient Levant (modern Israel, Palestine, Transjordan, Lebanon, and coastal Syria). They spoke a Semitic language related to Hebrew). They were well enough preserved that the archeologists could extract DNA from them. They found more than a 50% match with the DNA of Palestinians and with the DNA of Jews (and over a 90% match with Lebanese), which means that all three have been in Palestine for at least 4000 - 5000 years.
Despite the Torah’s saying Yahweh told the Israelites to exterminate the Canaanites, archeological research shows the Israelites were Canaanites, and Israelite culture was largely Canaanite in nature; in fact, a pre-Israelite Canaanite temple to Yahweh and his wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, was found by archeologists in Israel. An Oxford scholar in 1967, Raphael Patai, was the first historian to mention that the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah (though many scholars would call those who worshiped both “pre-Israelites”).
Thus, archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times.
Not all Jews left Israel after 70 AD. Some of their descendants who remained in Palestine are among the ancestors of today’s Palestinian Jews. Others of their descendants converted to Christianity and are among the ancestors of today’s Palestinian Christians. Many more later converted to Islam and are among the ancestors of today’s Palestinian Muslims whom Israelis call “Arabs” (though the only Palestinians of actual Arab ancestry are the Bedouin and the Druze, who make up about 3% of Palestinians). At least a third of the Palestinians are descended from Jewish families who converted to Islam.
As late as the 17th century, Hebron was a Jewish majority city. Ever since the Rambam (Maimonides), who ruled that converting to Islam did not constitute apostasy, since Islam, like Judaism, and unlike Pre-Reformation Christianity, was not an idolatrous religion. Jewish residents of Palestine had been gradually converting to Islam since the 16th century. There was a massive wave of conversion following the societal collapse that Judaism experienced following the conversion of False Messiah Shabbtai Tzvi to Islam in the 17th century. Until the 17th century, at least a third of the population of The Land of Israel (aka Palestine) was Jewish, some sources put the figure at just under half. by the end of the 18th century this number had gone down to just over 10%. Since there was no wave of emigration, the only answer is conversion.
As I have heard it put, the Jews are those who left the land but kept the religion, while the Palestinians are those who kept the land but left the religion. Both claim the land on the basis of what they kept and consider what they didn't keep irrelevant.
It's things like Psalm 137:9 "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" that made me decide that YWH is a god I can neither respect nor worship.
You are correct about the other IDIOT he may want you to kill Palestinians first, then brown people and finally even black peoples within the USA.
All decent people must VOTE as you have to choose between the lesser EVIL.I feel sorry for the people of US when you look at what they have to choose between.Two old people with ideas out of tune with the present!
Actually, I thought Biden was doing a good job before the Israeli-Gaza issue. Some of his ideas--like using Keynsian economics, supporting unions, and supporting American manufacturing--may have been old-fashioned, but they were a real improvement on the neo-liberal and neo-conservative ideas of his predecessors.
Unfortunately, I think your comment about ideas out of tune with the present is a good part of the problem with his response to Israel. As Joshua Liefer wrote in the Guardian, "Israel hasn't been a democracy for a long time," but Biden's understanding of it was formed when it--more or less-was.
You voted for a third-party candidate in 1968? Who was that? George Wallace? You didn't do the Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotians or American service members any favors by essentially voting for Nixon. He escalated the war and continued it for five more years. Smart move, Einstein. You helped get another million people killed.
I voted for Dick Gregory. My only connection to Wallace was protesting against him when he gave a talk in my home town.
If you read my whole post, you will see that I am quite aware of the damage I did by not voting for Humphrey--I'm warning others, like ConstanceReader, not to make the same mistake.
Thanks for rubbing it in; I've felt guilty for my mistake ever since.
You're doing a good job of proving that Trumper accusations are really confessions.
Inflation started with Trump, and Biden is bringing it down. Trump scheduled the withdrawal from Afghanistan; Biden came into office too late to reverse it.
What I do approve of are his efforts to restore the US middle-class by supporting unions, bringing manufacturing back to the US, forgiving student loans, etc
Biden also called the protests antisemitic, right after Netanyahu did. He’s still taking his cues from Netanyahu. Too many are willing to sacrifice the Palestinian people to genocide to prevent a second Trump
presidency. Maybe they should instead reexamine their primary election votes.
Nancy, with a Trump victory no one gets any help. Not only would it spell disaster for us, it would spell total disaster for the Palestinians. I don’t pretend to know what President Biden is doing behind the scenes but I know he has more information than I do. What we saw on October 7 is terrifying and watching women and children now is equally terrifying. I am not willing to endure a Trump Presidency without a fight. Having Trump in office is the last president you will have in your lifetime. Live with that. We should not cut off our nose to spite our face. Protest is our right, is there protest in Gaza to have Hamas agree to cease fire…no. They can’t because they have no freedom. It is just a bad situation, complex and awful for as long as I have lived. Students can protest, but they should not take away democracy from the women and children here for what would surely be a cruel awakening under Trump. I will do all I can to get other voters to save democracy for you and everyone else’s moral rage that they are surely entitled to. Respectfully
Save your lectures for yourself. No one is advocating voting for Trump. However, those of you who continually support corrupt candidates in the primaries would do well to reconsider your own actions. You’re willing to trade a flawed “democracy” here for genocide against the Palestinians. As if we don’t have more choices than two immoral candidates. But yes, our relationship e comforts are so much more important than Palestinian lives. Biden cheered Bush’s war against Iraq, in which many innocents were killed and more were dislocated. He was called Mr. MBNA while he was in the Senate because of his opposition to limiting interest rates and making it easier for people who were bankrupted by medical bills declare bankruptcy. No opposition though, to corporations declaring bankruptcy to avoid paying pensions. He opposed Medicare for All, keeping healthcare out of the reach of many. He supported the Patriot Act, he opposed school desegregation before becoming woke to embrace identity politics over civil rights. He called the protests antisemitic, right after Netanyahu did. But, as long as you get yours, it’s okay, right? Reexamine your support in the primaries for “Democratic” candidates who in years past would have been called Republicans. And you expect us to vote for genocide. Shame.
Nancy, yes, never surrender the moral high grounds, but be aware that your moral high grounds may be ground into smithereens if you fail to face reality.
I'm glad President Biden hasn't softened his support for Israel—he would then be accused of following the political winds and changing his position accordingly. I think he understands anti-semitism deeply and sees it happening with these protests. Why else are the Jewish students being advised to leave campuses for their safety? Why have documented anti-semitic attacks in this country and around the world soared since the Hamas attack on Israel? Why aren't the protesters demanding that Hamas, a terrorist organization who broke the ceasefire and slaughtered over 1200 Israelis, offer an unconditional surrender and the return of the remaining hostages? Is their cause righteous and Israel's right to exist not righteous? What about Iran, who funds Hamas, directly attacking Israel? Demanding a cease-fire and university divestment from Israel? Strategically stupid and morally wrong.
Antisemitism has not increased but reported more widely.Western countries are way more anti-Islam,but does any body talk about it.just look at the comments on this blog/substack over the last 6 months and analyse
And actually the protest primary votes were huge for a presidential election that usually the incumbent doesn’t get voted against and in key states but the admin is STILL not listening. They’re being so ignorant and it’s even more upsetting as a supporter esp after these protests. 💔 even knowing I need to vote for him to avoid Trump, it’s getting to a point where I don’t want to either
This reply is to Nancy - somehow it posted in the wrong place.
I'm quite sure you're misrepresenting what he said. He did not all the protests. He said there is no place for antisemitism and then added islamophobia or any such
Given this country's essentially being a doolah or midwife to Israel's birth - and with such linkages, like parenting, there's an inevitable blindness to an "offspring's" waywardness until it hits you in the face, which is happening in a more inescapable way than i'd say any prior U.S. President has faced. Studies (Kteily & Bruneau) have shown (and i've emailed them to him) that there's a propensity to dehumanizing of Palestinians by Israelis than is even more pronounced than Americans' propensity to dehumanize ISIS (an entire people more than beheading terrorists) and i think it explains how Netanyahu keeps getting re-elected cuz they have a majority who is drawn to his dogwhistles. Alas, like Trumpistas (heaven help us) drawn to Trump's.
And Biden is grieved and not willing sacrifice Palestinians or anybody to genocide but there's this bond since Israel's birth that Biden was weaned into 52 years upon entering the Senate and having Foreign Relations as his bailiwick. Despite protests from folks like me (with my emails to the White House) and Bernie championing it legislatively, calling for an end to offensive arms to Israel (and reportedly even Jill is lobbying him for the same cause), he feels between and rock and a hard place. But he's edging in the right direction, a direction Trump would never get near with a 10 ft pole. Trump is as much of a dehumanizer (and especially of Palestinians - whilst he butters up to and condones beheaders like Saudi princes) as the Israelis seem to be.
and fyi in case you're thinking i'm a Biden die-hard, i voted for Bernie - twice.
I understand your frustration, but to give up your vote is playing into their hands. Not voting? You might as well relocate in another country where you don't even get a chance to try, to meet representatives en masse or by yourself. Voting is the only way to show support for someone who will listen and explain versus someone who will and has written and said that jail is in a "dissident's future." End. of. story.
I totally agree. The demographics of the general populace of Students and Faculty that have tried to protect them - has been healed against them, in my view. We see this repeated over decades and protests are not created for incidental reasons, they are a responsible e to injustice, cruelty, harm, and in this case - GENOCIDE and Ethnic cleansing. To dismiss them, as Biden continues to do, is an immoral response, and to not inact their deep concerns is to support the horrific actions by Israeli forces in support of AIPAC.
Biden's also shown a serious lack of strategy by making the comments that he has about student protestors, especially when he desperately needs the youth vote to win. People have been telling Biden he is imperiling his campaign due to his hawkish foreign policy for months. Biden can only blame himself for losing the youth vote at this point. Maybe Trump will die of a heart attack or stroke before the election though, keeping him out of office.
Because the alternative presidential candidate is far worse. Including, particularly, on Palestine. Taking an action which will result in the exact opposite of what you want is not generally considered a good strategy.
But to NOT vote for Biden, who is somewhat malleable, unlike the wannabe dictator trump, is to actually vote for trump. I marched against the war in Vietnam too, and have continued to march against all of the injustices against women, minorities being treated unfairly as well as our own people of color who have and are often still being treated as second class citizens. But think of the ramifications of allowing someone who repeatedly breaks the law, intimidates witnesses and even jury members in his trial, aside from all of his other lies. Biden will listen and has NOT discounted the voices of students and other concerned Americans that Netanyahu's government is evil and practising the same genocide as was practised on them by the Natzis during WW II. And Biden has repeatedly said that accountability must come from Israel for their part in this terrible war. Think about what the death of democracy and our Republic would mean for this country> We'd be nothing but a Third World country lacking any moral compass with a sociopath at the helm....no regulations protecting people, no vision forward towards ending wars and negotiating, and every action taken would be based on "the financial bottom line", not what the people need. Please work for peace/negotiation and a Democratic government that actually passes and enforces laws that people live more comfortably instead of scrabbling to survive.
They can pick their poison! By not voting for Biden they are voting for Trump. Is this really what they want? There are consequences to every action! Be careful!
How do they know they're being ignored? Did they want to sit in on strategic military and diplomatic meetings in the Middle East? How do they not know that Biden is just as angry and frustrated as they are? When in recent times have they seen a President Biden who is without empathy and compassion? Was it on October 7th? Was it when he was trying to restrain Israeli military response by sending in our military to tell them about our mistakes? Was it when he said Israel had the right to defend itself, but that it mattered how they did it and the world was watching? Was it when he flooded Egypt with aid to put on trucks to enter Gaza? Was it when he ordered a dock built to aid in off-loading aid in northern Gaza? Was it when he ordered air drops because Israel refused to stop delaying trucks? Do you think the IS abstention on a UN Security Council vote had no affect? Do they think Israel needs bombs to kill Palestinian children? They are starving and the weakened are dying of disease. Do they not know we lost our strategic influence in the Middle East by our own response to 9/11? Israel doesn't need us. They know where to buy arms and we aren't the only game in town. Do they not know that this war is counterproductive to everything the Biden administration was trying to do in that region? He needs stable governments to get the climate agenda moving forward. Trust him. He's doing everything he can. Peaceful protests don't hurt his efforts. Chaotic protests do. Incentivizing his American political advisories by not voting or switching sides will destroy everything the protesters want to achieve. No climate agenda if he is not the next president, you can take that to the bank. No women's rights. No civil rights for anyone. For Trump, your value is your unquestioned obedience.
His policy is in alignment with the student objectives so no policy change is required. He's not ignoring them. They are ignoring him and what he has accomplished and the limitations he has to work under. The only way we could stop Netanyahu's government right now is to put American boots into Gaza to fight Israelis while Palestinians would be attacking the American rear.
No, it is not in alignment, because the U.S. will still be supplying offensive weaponry and money to buy offensive weaponry that will be used to further the genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza.
The United States doesn't hold all the cards. Have you ever wondered why Netanyahu isn't deferential to Biden? He is more aligned with the Republicans. He constantly speaks to the press and lets them know that he calls the shots, not Biden. We aren't the only ones who sell 2000-pound bombs, and Israel isn't without options. Let Biden manage the diplomatic effort that will give the Palestinians real hope for a real future. One where they are safe every day, not just until the next time. Read international news. Read past the top story, because the campuses and Trump are the top stories. The players are the US, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, France, Great Britain and the UAE. The two-state solution is the goal and most of the elements are in place. Divesting colleges and universities will not achieve your goals. Diplomacy will make it happen. Those people actually have conversations and are making deals. Think about who came to Israel's defense during the Iranian attack...the US, but not the US alone...Jordan and the Saudis. Do not be short-sighted. Do not kill the goose who lays the golden eggs. The monies have been identified to begin rebuilding Gaza. Don't let this moment pass because you must have it your way.
"It is not antisemitic or pro-Hamas to point out that in almost seven months Netanyahu’s extremist government has killed 34,000 Palestinians and wounded more than 77,000 – seventy percent of whom are women and children.
And to protest that or to point that out is not antisemitic. It is simply factual.
It is not antisemitic to point out that Netanyahu’s government’s bombing has completely destroyed more than 221,000 housing units in Gaza, leaving more than one million people homeless – almost half the population. No, Mr. Netanyahu it is not antisemitic to point out what you have done in terms of the destruction of housing in Gaza.
It is not antisemitic to realize that his government has annihilated Gaza’s health care system, knocking 26 hospitals out of service and killing more than 400 health care workers. At a time when 77,000 people have been wounded and desperately need medical care, Netanyahu has systematically destroyed the health care system in Gaza.
It is not antisemitic to condemn his government’s destruction of all of Gaza’s 12 universities and 56 of its schools, with hundreds more damaged, leaving 625,000 children in Gaza have no opportunity for an education. It is not antisemitic to make that point.
It is not antisemitic to note that Netanyahu’s government has obliterated Gaza’s civilian infrastructure – there is virtually no electricity in Gaza right now, virtually no clean water in Gaza right now, and sewage is seeping out onto the streets.
It is not antisemitic to make that point.
Mr. President, it is not antisemitic to agree with virtually every humanitarian organization that functions in the Gaza area in saying that his government, in violation of American law, has unreasonably blocked humanitarian aid coming into Gaza.
They have created the conditions under which hundreds of thousands of children face malnutrition and famine. It is not antisemitic to look at photographs of children who are starving to death because they have not been able to get the food that they need. It is not antisemitic to agree with American and UN officials that parts of Gaza could become famine districts in the not very distant future.
Antisemitism is a vile and disgusting form of bigotry that has done unspeakable harm to many millions of people for hundreds of years, including my own family. But it is outrageous and it is disgraceful to use that charge of antisemitism to distract us from the immoral and illegal war policies that Netanyahu’s extremist and racist government is pursuing.
Furthermore, it is really cheap politics for Netanyahu to use the charge of antisemitism to deflect attention from the criminal indictment he is facing in the Israeli courts.
Bottom line, Mr. President: it is not antisemitic to hold Netanyahu and his government for their actions. That is not antisemitic. It is precisely what we should be doing."
—Senator Bernie Sanders, 1 May 2024, from remarks made on the United States Senate floor
Now is the time for Sanders to speak about the vagaries of election politics. It is easier to make change happen as part of the majority than as the ignored minority.
Making me regret not voting for him in the primaries for 2020… Biden for sure has wins & wayyy better than Trump but in this circumstance I wish Bernie were our President. I wish I took his chances more seriously instead of listening to the doubts longtime Dems put in our minds. He could’ve had the support.
IDF believes every Palestinian male capable of fighting is Hamas whether they are or not. For that matter, they may believe that every Palestinian woman capable of fighting is Hamas. Palestinian children are collateral damage. So are press and aid workers.
I agree 100% with Senator Sanders' eloquent argument and your support of his views. However, I feel compelled to tell that you need to flag for the reader that the words you are typing are not your own by using the standard conventions , in this case - quotation marks. Arriving at the end of your comment and discovering the words were Bernie's left me feeling duped.
Even if that were true (which it isn’t even close for anyone who has actually been informed in what Bernie stands for) the values are better than supporting inhumanity.
O lordy. I have seen a few headlines about re-build carpetbaggers. Kushner Luxury Beach Resort, or will they just use "Trump?" Will Marines get electrocuted in their showers? (Iraq flashback)
Actually, I was validating your point about profit in scorched earth for somebody with the right connections to the "military industrial complex." I never said Trump owned black rock or Vanguard. I have seen reporting of a Kushner plan to develop beach real estate in what's left of Gaza. Seems the name "Trump" really poked your beehive.
Okay who hires them who funds their paid performance and where do they live when not participating in their hired protestor jobs … they got names… identification … Passports ⁉️🤷🏼♀️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️I need answers😵💫
The rightful object of moral outrage ought to be Hamas, not only for starting the war!, but for raping and mutilating--mutilating!!!--innocent civilians and for using its own civilian citizens as human shields. If using one's own people as human shields isn't genocide, I don't know what is.
I would venture to say that there IS outrage about Hamas and their atrocities. You can be outraged over more than one thing. But to not understand what Netanyahu has done, even him previously showing some support for Hamas since they were also not interested in a two state solution, (vs. PLO) is closing your eyes to how desperate Netanyahu is to stay in power. This situation is so deep, old, and complicated. But, the killing of so many innocents can’t be justified as a cost of war.
So well said! I venture to suggest an analogy to the international solidarity with the US after 9-11, followed by dismay at the bizarre choice of Iraq as target for revenge.
How many civilians did the US kill in Afghanistan? Iraq? What was the ratio of civilian:military deaths?
Also, where do the numbers of Gazan casualties come from? How do we know that they are accurate? Answers: from Hamas and we don't.
I'm no fan of Bibi, but what's a reasonable alternative for Israel to prevent Hamas from perpetrating more October-7-style attacks, as they've promised to do?
Yes, wake-up world! Attacking Israel is a double standard. There have been numerous wars in the past where thousands have been murdered but no protests at colleges happened. I call that a double standard!
Neither did the deep hate against Islam by Israel… 🤔 but no I think thousands of people being slaughtered on the internet for everyone to see is enough motive as it is. How is that so shocking?
Oh please. Israel has made peace with every Islamic country that wants to. They’re fighting terrorism and we’ll understand this sooner than we realise. The West is next.
This is so true it pains me to see the carnage in Gaza while looking at Israelites (government, many citizens do not support!) becoming what they once fled😢
Yes, the "elephant in the room" is, does being victims of genocide hand you a license for genocide? I had a friend, long dead, who evaded Hitler and made it to the US, but had family he visited in Israel. His feedback was that most Jews were comfortable being neighbors with Palestinians, and deplored government discrimination against them. Since when, it's gotten worse and worse. It seems a parliamentary system is no more effective against religious extremists than our gerrymandering and electoral college.
The problem is not Jewish religious extremists....Israel made several generous peace offers. The problem is Palestinian refusal to share the region to ANY extent.
It frustrates me that students will protest but not vote? That’s the main thing they can do to impact change! We can NOT risk trump being elected again! That would result in the end of Democracy as we know it! Although I agree Biden is aging, he is the only option we have and students should ask for a dialogue with the president. They need to understand the complexities of international relationships and negotiations.
True but when you support an immoral gov what does that make you? I’m still voting Biden but am so disappointed in him and how he’s trashing his legacy with these decisions
I agree 100%. The senseless slaughter of innocents is horrendous. What Hamas did was terrible, what Israel is doing is worse. I used to be a staunch supporter of Israel, but no more.
why not support Israel but not the government. the world used to look up to the U.S. but now no one can trust that we'll have a democracy. You'r blaming Israeli citizens for their minority rule government!
Because that’s how you get the whole country to be serious against the evils in their government. Too many of the people who agree with the hateful far-right sentiments have moved to Israel and become their population (too much like Florida for us).
really? then why are Israelis protesting? the right wing religious zealots in Israel are a minority, like they are in the U.S. We are under minority rule in many states along with Florida that are violating Women's human rights. So make sure you understand, Israeli's also have minority rule.
Thank you, I didn’t realize the level of minority rule in Israel. That explains why I see some protests in Israel from time to time on the news but it’s rare. I’ve been thinking for the longest time we need to find a way for the Israelis to elect a new government, but it’s unclear as to how that would happen.
I humbly offer that I took her to mean current official policy/government. Her clarification was on target! But your analogy to the problem with the world's view of the US is important. There's a lot of knee-jerk condemnation of cain being raised on college campuses, but nobody has used the phrase "good trouble" that I've seen yet. If the disruption is making international news, maybe American citizens are not being blamed so much for our minority government...
On a pro rata basis, the 1200 Israelis killed would be the equivalent of about 60,000 dead Americans. More than Vietnam in total. In one day. How would we react? As to the protesters, words matter. “From the river to the sea” is a Hamas phrase with clear meaning. Just like if they wrote on their signs “work sets you free”; everyone knows that one. Moral outrage is understandable, but this is a war. In WWII, We killed 300,000 with just two bombs, but it was an “acceptable cost” because of the number of soldiers that would have died if an invasion of Honshu were required. And on top of it all, the “ordinary” Gazans knew all about what Hamas was doing. Can’t build all those tunnels and shoot rockets from hospitals without general knowledge of the people. Just like all the “ordinary” Germans knew exactly what was happening in the camps. War is awful. Innocents die. There is plenty of blame to go around. But always seems like Jews take the brunt. Why no protests about Darfur, Iran, Somalia, Chad, Eritrea, Sudan, China etc. only the Jewish state. Just calling out the truth. Reich is wrong - it is antisemitism. My son went to Cal and was in a Jewish frat. There is antisemitism everywhere there. There is a parody song in which the last line is “And everybody hates the Jews “! So true over the days weeks, months, years, decade, generations, centuries and millennium.
I haven't always agreed with the professor's views on Israel's war but this piece, I think, is right on. Slaughtering innocent children, women, and men by the tens of thousands is just plain wrong and there's no need to impute ulterior motives to the large majority of students protesting against this atrocity.
What continues to puzzle me is the contrast between Gaza and Ukraine. Why are students protesting war in Gaza and not war in Ukraine?!? Why are they expressing outrage over deaths in Gaza but not the ongoing carnage in Ukraine? Why do hearts melt with grief for children in Gaza but not for children in Ukraine? Why is it people express anger at Mr Biden for support he gives to Mr Netanyahu, even threaten to stop supporting him, while no one expresses anger at Mr Trump’s support for Mr Putin’s long and violent war against Ukraine? What’s going on?
i think the actions of an extremely online younger generation can't be separated from what they're seeing/learning on social media. what's happening in gaza is a war crime perpetrated by a thug israeli government, to be sure. but so is what's happening in ukraine. so i agree - why the difference? could it be that hamas just has a really good social media game and has rallied american youth to their cause?
people claim to just be acting from morality - and i agree 100% that the israeli destruction of gaza is immoral, but there's a fervor and groupthink to this movement that feels like it's artificially pumped up by the social media machine. i mean, who benefits from these protests? not palestinian children, unfortunately. people who want to increase fractures among americans, and specifically on the left, are greatly benefitting. that's what scares me.
Your question is easy to answer - these protests are performative anti-Westernism. Brown people,/white aggressor provides a clear moral formula, with UK vs RU they cannot use it to beat the West with.
I know people are expressing outrage over the ongoing carnage in Ukraine. I think what has happened is that it isn't getting as much news coverage - both the war and the outrage - because it has been going on for so long.
Biden should make it clear that the tiny state of Israel will be on their own without US aid of any kind unless they stop killing Palestinian civilians immediately and allow aid to the people in Gaza. The outrageous slaughter must stop.
Earlier today, I was thinking, if I went out on a street corner with a sign, it might say "Defund Israel." I suppose I would get mobbed by people accusing me of hating Jews, which would be an epic irony. I grew up in a Bircher house with at least two copies of "The Protocols..." on display. Never "bought" it, somehow. Eventually looked up a copy of "Warrant for Genocide" by Cohn, Oxford. But my sign might say: "Defund Israel."
I don’t agree with you this time, Professor Reich. I don’t think the argument is constructive about whether anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism because the definition of Zionism changes from person to person; I happen to believe that Zionism is the belief that we Jews were and are entitled to return to our homeland in what we now call Israel. (To me, the Palestinians are also entitled to live in their homeland, and a two-state solution is the only just solution.) Since the return to Zion has been a part of Jewish liturgy since the diaspora began, being opposed to the return to Israel means opposing a tenet of the Jewish religion. That’s not anti-Semitism, but it IS anti-Judaism. Furthermore, numerous people in the US cheered the Hamas attack right after it happened, and before Israel invaded Gaza. Some even said that the dead Israelis deserved their fate because Jews are supposedly European colonizers who did not belong in ANY of the land. Frankly, I don’t care whether that is anti-Semitism or not, because it is certainly hostile to all Jews who believe in the centuries-old idea of the return home.
As for the appalling loss of life among Palestinians, Netanyahu should have waited to invade until the IDF had a plan to protect the civilians. In my opinion, he is an evil man who doesn’t care about his own people, let alone someone else’s. (Bibi is a lot like Trump, except that Bibi is smarter than Trump and speaks better English). HOWEVER, Hamas is equally responsible for the carnage because a government, especially knowing that it plans to provoke a war, needs to provide civil defense plans. The tunnels would make perfect air raid shelters but the civilians had no access to them. Instead, they were relegated to places where weapons were stored — places such as schools and hospitals, that, under the Geneva Conventions, become legitimate targets only if they are used for military purposes, which they were. Hamas deliberately set up its countrymen to be mowed down.
There is plenty of blame to go around. I believe that Biden is on the right track — have the Palestinian Authority run Gaza, and hope that Israel gets Likud out of power. The irony of all of this is that Israeli liberals were protesting every weekend against Netanyahu before October 7th. Hamas probably felt that it HAD to act, or Bibi would be gone, and with it, Hamas’s best opportunity to provoke a war. Likud played right into their hands.
O dear, here we go again. Please what is source: "numerous people in the US cheered the Hamas attack right after it happened." I am having deja vu of Trump claiming to have seen celebrations in New Jersey of destruction of the WTC 9/11.
Thanks! I see the date on that reporting. So sad. It sort of hammers home the hopelessness of the situation, in which killing is totally on the menu of options, both sides.
What makes things even worse is that Israel’s right-wing crazies are taking advantage of the war to attack Palestinians in the West Bank, knowing that no one will stop them. And I fear that Netanyahu really will go into Rafah, which will lead not only to massive bloodshed, but may help Trump get elected because younger progressives will stay home. Of course, Bibi WANTS Trump elected. If all this happens, there will be no Palestinian state, Israel will henceforth be a total pariah, and the US will lose its democracy. Next to all this, some generally peaceful demonstrations that ruin graduation at a bunch of universities seem minor.
You really nailed it, Audrey. I've said before that Bibi is a more competent version of Trump. Hadn't considered before that Bibi speaks better English, but, of course, he does.
What started the protests and what continues to be the cause is the slaughter of innocents in Gaza. What devolves from there in a small percentage is lawlessness and antisemitism. There are agitators and outside influencers as well.
I’ve also observed here in Los Angeles, that some of the protesters seem to be in it for an opportunity to raise heck and cause trouble. So, it seems that there’s more than one motive at play here.
Same here. Is it possible that right-wing Trump supporters are purposely igniting violence at these protests to hurt Biden in the polls? You can be both pro-Jew and pro-Palestine at the same time while protesting genocide. Biden can only do so much with the war in Israel. I understand people’s anger with him. I am angry too, but I also understand his limitations. Biden may not have handled Netanyahu as well as I would have liked, but consider the absolute disaster Trump would have made of the situation. It requires finesse and restraint. Trump has neither. It definitely does not make me less likely to vote for Biden. Do these people really think Trump is the answer? I hope not.
Lost: The fact that T.Rump would be worse is beside the point---TFG isn't in the Oval Office now. And deploring Biden's actions [or lack thereof] doesn't translate to supporting T.Rump. This isn't a zero-sum situation; that is, NOT liking A doesn't automatically equate to liking B.
Of course, Biden can't control Netanyahu, but Biden does hold the keys to the store. If he told Bibi there'd be no more aid to Israel without a ceasefire---and he stood firm---I'll bet the ceasefire would happen within a few days. Scolding and wagging a finger at Netanyahu does nothing.
Well, actually, it is a zero-sum situation as there are only really two parties.
The comment to which I responded relates to Biden's actions, so I'm not talking about parties. I'm referring to actions and issues. One can disapprove of how Biden is acting regarding Gaza and still not support TFG. Asserting that if one doesn't wholeheartedly stand behind Biden, then one must, by definition, be a TFG fan....no. That's equivalent to saying that an anti-Zionist is automatically anti-semitic. Or saying that supporting Gazans means condoning Hamas' attack. Neither is true.
I'm appalled that American bombs are being used to kill civilians, including women and children, and Biden has bypassed Congress to supply them to Israel. In no way does that mean I want to see T.Rump anywhere but in a jail cell.
I think that you might be oversimplifying how these things work... Please keep in mind that Netanyahu is clearly in the bag with the Republicans and has backstabbed Obama/Biden previously, and now Biden -
repeatedly. The people of Israel wnat him gone, and tried, since he is criminally indicted (sound familiar?) Biden, and Blinken, have been relentlessly working to resolve the things - beem tp tje Middle East? This is incredibly complex, and delicate, and it has only been through US diplomacy that any Arab countries even recognize Israels's right to exixt...
I need someone to explain to me how the hell taking over a college building and destroying it and making demands does anything but bring about the opposite results. If the protests are successful in turning away the youth vote, we get Trump, and Gaza gets carpet bombed...
Complex diplomacy is working to obviate this outcome - these degenerating take-overs as happened at Columbia & UCLA are bringing it about...
"Netanyahu is clearly in the bag with the Republicans and has backstabbed Obama/Biden previously, and now Biden - repeatedly."
Exactly my point. Trying to deal with Netanyahu is a fool's errand. The only thing that will stop him is to deny him the aid he wants and needs. You say Biden and Blinken have been working to resolve things. Yes, they've been talking for months, to little avail. Biden gives Netanyahu stern warnings, and Bibi ignores them, so Biden gets more stern. And so on.
Dealing with Netanyahu is like dealing with t***p: the only way to get through to him is to hit him where it hurts.
Bill, I agree with your assessment. Blinken has been to the Middle East 18 times, including eight times to Israel since October 7. Most people don’t understand that we have some 16 agreements with Israel, since 1953 and four of these are specific to military engagement. So if Israel is invaded, we have to respond to supply weapons and support. These agreements were largely written during Republican administrations. If Biden attempted to not abide by the agreements, the Republicans are standing by to pounce on him with appearances on all the media to criticize him for abrogating America’s agreements with a non-NATO ally. The week after the October 7 atrocity both Biden and Blinken traveled to APEC in San Francisco ware Lincoln delivered a message to Israel’s foreign minister that the only solution the United States would accept would be a resolution that entailed Palestine having its own state with Israel, having nothing to do with Palestine and Hamas would be gone. The bombing of Innocent Palestinians in Gaza needed to stop immediately, and of course, Netanyahu proceeded to ignore our policy. People are not recognizing that Biden has a little choice in sending support and weapons to Israel because of these written agreements. They can be found on the Secretary of State website under foreign affairs Right on the landing page. In Jan 2006 elections were held in Palestine for a nude ministration following PLO. The parameters were that anyone allowed on the ballot had to be a non-terrorist without weapons. George Bush, Senior was Pres and Connie Rice was SOS in the administration in 2006.
They failed to vet Hamas. Hamaswas not favored by the majority of Palestinians and yet they won. They went to the polling places with weapons and threatened voters. And they did this, despite places being you UN monitored. The three headed snake, Putin, Trump and Netanyahu are behind this invasion by Hamas. Please note also that when Lincoln had nearly reached a cease-fire IIran bombed Israel, we would all go along way as citizens if we would self educate to the agreements that exist that Biden has to abide by. And we would go an even longer distance in helping electrum if we would explain these agreements to our fellow citizens, especially younger folks who haven’t lived through this kind of history. I’m not criticizing anything that you have written and I’m writing this response regarding the agreements that the United States has made with Israel because others on this Substack are making claims that Biden holds the keys to not sending weapons. He does not. It’s all in the agreements. Indeed, one can be anti-bombing Palestine and pro a two party solution without blaming Israeli citizens. The blame goes with Netanyahu, who has set himself up as a dictator.
“We get Trump, and Gaza gets carpet bombed”. Though this is no doubt true, please explain how that is any different to now? It’s already getting carpet bombed, and America is profiting from it by selling the bombs! They will also profit from all the oil and gas that is under Gaza - the Americans and Israelis are already building a pier in Northern Gaza… makes you wonder if this is really that much about October 7th after all…
Students threatening to withhold their vote is sensible to me - politicians are meant to represent their constituents. If they don’t, they don’t deserve their vote. It’s a chance to actually get some representation, instead of being ignored because the Democrats have scared you with cries of “think how bad Trump will be!”. How convenient for them. That way they can say all the nice words and then just do whatever their donors want them to do, and completely ignore their constituents.
🤡
Denise I understand you are appalled as we all are. I responded more fully to you below, but please go to the state department website and read our agreements that began in 1953 including the four military agreements that are requiring intervention, support, weapons, and ammunition in the case Israel is invaded. Biden has not made a policy on his own. These policies have existed since 1953 and they’re cumulative and they’re binding and they are made by republican administrations. He has sent secretary of State Blinken to the mid state times and to Israel eight times, with the most recent trip last month. Each time the messages stopped the bombing, we are supporting a two state solution and that’s the only resolution we will accept, you will not have any part of any new Palestine government, that is the only resolution we will accept, stop Bombing innocences. And Biden calls Netanyahu every single day to tell him “knock it off.” Netanyahu is supported by Trump and Putin so the three headed snake is behind ramping up the discord at Biden’s expense. You can find those documents to read and I hope you wellness Secretary of State website, military affairs section right on the front landing page. They’re binding and the only way we can reverse them to a blue bicameral Congress, and re-elect Biden. One further note: things were messy with the PLO and the United States had supported the Palestinian elections. George Bush Junior was president, Connie Rice was secretary of state.
The parameters were that candidates for office could not be terrorist or have weapons. Hamas fit both categories and George Bush Junior and Condelezza Rice failed to properly vet the candidates. Showed up at UN monitored polling stations with guns. they threatened the voters even though less than half Palestinians were in favor of Hamas and Hamas was elected with no election since. so now we have discord on our campuses with young folks not understanding the history and Connie Rice and George Bush Junior are silent
"And Biden calls Netanyahu every single day to tell him 'knock it off.'”
And those calls are having zero effect. Why? Because Biden is telling Netanyahu to knock it off, while at the same time he's doing end runs around Congress to send shipments of weaponry. Words vs. actions. Netanyahu is doing exactly what he wants, no matter what Biden says, because he CAN.
Agreements can be cancelled when necessary. Never thought that US foreign diplomacy is a prisoner of agreements made in a different time and a different cause.
Are you suggesting that these agreements require US to supply weapons so Israel can attack others? I don't think so.
Let's not forget the arms are being supplied in violation of US & international law.
Can we at least make the distinction between defensive and offensive weapons? Israel should not be questioned in any attempts to defend itself (eg, its recent successful implementation of the “Iron Dome” in defending itself against Iranian attack), however providing monetary support for or actual offensive weaponry to Israel is utterly immoral as long as Netanyahu stays in place and the Gaza Genocide continues.
Agree, Rose. Excellent point.
Please explain how killing thousands of Palestinian women and children is tantamount to a defensive posture.
Thanks for clarifying. (I was, of course, only referring to vote counts.)
Palestine elected Hamas. Hamas started a war. Hamas is hiding behind civilians and claiming that it's mostly women and children dying while not actually counting the difference between combatants and non-combatants. No one with a heart wants to see people suffering like this. But if they just end the war now, no conditions, Hamas will just start planning the next attack which means more murders of civilians, more rapes, more kidnapping children and old people. They've said so openly. So where's the conversation about that? Biden actually has to contend with that reality whereas protesters can just feel happy the bombing has stopped and go on with their lives.
And you know, Israel hasn't actually occupied Gaza since 2005. They have severe checks on Gaza because Hamas has promised to keep attacking. If your neighbor swore to kill you and your children and take your house, how high a wall would you build?
jfx24, the majority of Palestinians did not support Hamas in 2006 for the first and only election they have ever had. Hamas was never vetted properly by Bush Junior and Condelezza Rice the then-secretary of state. The parameters for anyone being on the ballot were that they could not be terrorists with weapons; however, Hamas were terrorists with weapons everyone knew it. Connie and Bush Junior sat on their hands as they are doing today with their mouths closed.
Hamas trotted around to UN monitored voting places and threatened Palestinians, and they were then elected by default. The majority of Palestinians did not then and do not today support him; however, they are taking the brunt of Israel’s retaliation from Hamas actions. Biden has said repeatedly that he wants a two parties to State solution with Israel, having nothing to do with the government governance of Palestine, and Hamas being entirely removed from the country of Palestine. Anytime Aziz fire has been closed. Thanks to Lincoln‘s negotiations over 18 trips to the mid East and eight trips to Israel since October 7, 2023, Hamas ramp up there, terrorist activities, and Iran supports them. And of course, you know that Putin supports Iran. And he is a member of the three headed snake, Putin, Netanyahu and Trump. And the three headed snake: Putin, Netanyahu and Trump are delighted any time discord is present. That includes our current discord in the United States. Not supporting Biden is supporting Trump, who will be a dictator from day one. That not might not be everyone’s favorite choice, but it is the choice to have our democracy. Trump has stated that he gets along well with dictators. He is a dictator at heart.
I am as appalled by Netanyahu as the next person, and his two main motives are no doubt too stay in power and to avoid going to prison the moment he gets out of it. But as for your statement about conflating antisemitism and anti-Zionism, the fact that the term Zionist has been Introduced since October 7 to Americans itself does not seem accidental. It’s a term that has long been used pejoratively by preachers of genocide against the Jews, such as Hamas, who are open about their aspirations to slaughter every Jew in the world, according to their charter. Zionism simply means a belief in the existence of the state of Israel. Anyone who doesn’t is anti-Semitic, especially knowing that the land between the river and the sea is the land of the ancient Israelites, who were kicked off that land Millennia before the term Palestinian was invented in the 20th century; And that 3 million Jews returned to it who had no desire to leave their homelands in Europe until they were thrown off their homelands and 2/3 were Slaughtered. That’s when the UN, the British, and the world came to agree with the original Zionist from the Middle East who began to return to their homeland that Jews needed a state or they would continue to be subject to slaughter every time we have a period like now, when antisemitism is rearing its ugly head. So I would argue that if you believe it should not be a state of Israel, which is what it means to be an anti-Zionist, you are Not only an antisemite but are calling for the genocide of the Jewish people, Because without a homeland, or in a “one state solution” without the “Apartheid” In Israel, Jews would have no protection from the most ancient, virulent, and Omnipresent form of racism, antisemitism, which has led to the greatest genocide in human history by massive or orders of magnitude.
Zionism has become a militant, extremist movement. Zionists are no longer satisfied with the state of Israel, a Jewish homeland. They want to take over the West Bank and Gaza. They won't accept a two-state solution. Many American Jews no longer support Zionism.
Opposing the actions of Israel’s government, including land seizure and the carnage in Gaza, does NOT equate with antisemitism.
Zionism is a lot, lot more than what you're saying.
The original formation of Israel involved violently displacing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, stealing their property, and blocking their right to self-determination — all patently illegal under both League of Nations and UN.
Why then aren't you appalled at HAMAS using their own people and hostages as human shields. Why aren't you appalled at HAMAS using US Aid and assistance to build an army of 5 brigades (along with Iranian training, weapons material and assistance) to massacre and rape2,000 Jews.
DoublestandardsDenise? Only Jews are bad people and commit war crimes?
Arabs - Muslims have genocidal intentions it is in the Quran, the hadith, the HAMAS covenant. The State of Israel has no genocidal intentions, though the old testament is chock full of genocide from Jericho to the Almelkites, but that is not Judaism today, Well maybe the Orthodox settlers, but what they are about is ethnic c;leansing of the west bank, whereas Muslims are for genocide of Jews.
EThnic cleansing is not genocide.
Ethnic cleansing IS genocide. That's the definition.
You've dumped all possible reactions to all possible ramifications of everything going on in Israel and Gaza into one bucket, and you're drawing conclusions and positing equations that don't add up.
Being appalled at the carnage in Gaza does NOT equate to supporting Hamas. Being appalled at what Netahyahu is doing does NOT equate to hating Jews. And so on.
I've framed my discussion surrounding this post around Biden's policy regarding Netanyahu's actions. Imputing various views to me relative to other aspects of the situation is both unfair and inaccurate. You assume much too much.
Denise, since 1953 we have signed some 16 agreements with Israel, and four of them are having to do with military aid and support in the event of an attack on Israel, a non-NATO ally. These agreements were made by mostly Republican administrations. Biden is obligated by law to honor these agreements. And the minute he didn’t the Republicans: who are waiting for him to abrogate them with hammer down and be on every major media station talking about the violation of agreements. at the same time, Biden has traveled to Israel to try to negotiate a peaceful resolution with Netanyahu the week after the October 7 invasion of Israel by Hamas, Biden and Secretary of State Blinken attended APEC in San Francisco. Blinken informed Israel’s foreign minister that the United States message to Netanyahu was that we would only accept a two state resolution, and that when the independent Palestinian state resolution was enacted, Israel would have no part: zero part in Palestine, government or economic affairs or any part of Palestine. Hamas. Part 2 of the United States involvement would be Hamas would leave. Part three and just as important as the first two is that Biden has insisted that Israel stop the bombing and killing of innocent Palestinians. SOS Blinken has traveled to Israel eight times and he has traveled to the Middle East a total of 18 times with this message, negotiating with Netanyahu and middle East leaders. President Biden speaks to the press about his phone calls to Netanyahu almost daily. He has told him to knock off the bombing, and when Blinken was close to a settlement with the Mideast leaders with Palestine, Hamas and Israel, suddenly I ran, entered the fray and bombed Israel. So first of all the keys are not in Biden‘s hands. He’s bound by prior existing Republican initiated agreements. The keys are in Netanyahu‘s hands and Netanyahu is part of the three headed snake that is, Netanyahu, Trump, and Putin. They don’t want discord in Palestine to end, and they don’t care about innocent deaths. Every single Republican politician knows about these agreements because they have to reinstate them when the sunset clauses happen. George Bush Junior and Connie Rice were in office when Hamas came to power in 2006. The elections of January 26 2006 were UN monitored. The parameters were that anyone on the ballot had to be a non-terrorist with no weapons. It was known that Hamas had weapons and they trotted around to the voting stations and threatened voters. This was during a time when fewer than 50% of Palestinians supported Hamas. They did not want terrace to be governed by terrorists. George Bush Junior and Condelezza Rice failed to vet Hamas. Palestine has only had a single election. Connie and George are curiously silent about the atrocities. They are not speaking up. They are not condemning Hamas and they are not acknowledging their role in failing to vet Hamas. The most significant thing that you and others can do is to go on the state department website and then go to the military affairs section, which is very easy to find it posted on the landing page. That there you will find it on the front page all of the agreements with Israel. Read them all. Notice the dates and notice who was in office as president during those negotiations. When they were negotiated, we didn’t think we would have a Trump. We didn’t think we would have a Netanyahu. And we didn’t think we would have a Putin to make a three headed snake to create this vicious. after you’ve read the documents, explain them to the millennials, Gen Z, Gen Y - all younger folks with whom you interact who haven’t lived through this history. And please revise your statement that the keys to the store are held by Biden. He absolutely wants to end this atrocity and he has from October 7. Biden is not able to abrogate those agreements. Please read them. And then please spread the word that they exist, they easy to find and they are binding.
Israel isn't listening to anything Blinkin or Biden says. It's all dissipating into thin air. Netanyahu has repeatedly said there won't be two states.
As for military aid agreements, the U.S. has already sent billions of dollars' worth of weaponry. We've held up our end of the deal. Sending Israel endless shipments of bombs violates the Leahy Law, but no one is addressing that transgression.
Netanyahu is a colleague of Trump and Putin, and they are working to keep Biden from being reelected. It would go along way toward keeping Trump out of power, which is our real aim here isn’t it, if our fellow citizens, especially younger folks who have not lived through the history, understood that Biden‘s hands are tied by agreements made beginning in 1953 including four military support agreements.
I don't accept that U.S. military support agreements extend to assisting genocide.
As well, Hamas is no real military threat to Israel. Iran is, yes, but the U.S. presence is the security in that regard. There's no military reason for the U S. to still be sending weaponry to Israel.
Leahy does not apply to Israel. It applies to ‘security forces’ with whom the U.S. does not have written agreements or treaties. The U.S. has written agreements covering military cooperation with Israel, the Taiwan agreement (I suggest reading that one) and recently a trilateral with Japan and Korea. The transgression is NG Netanyahu: who is working with Putin to help Trump to defeat Biden. Please read the agreements with Israel on the State Department website - I understand your outrage but it’s not helpful to misquote Leahy and misappropriate blame to Biden.
I'm not misquoting Leahy. There's been no official determination---YET---of human rights violations in Gaza, but more reports are coming out every day. World opinion is indicating that wanton killing of women, children, and aid workers constitutes war crimes. Even former Senator Leahy believes "his" law applies to Israel.
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/26/1240857410/how-do-leahy-laws-apply-to-u-s-support-for-israel
I'm not quite as ignorant and unread as you're implying I am.
Agreements can be cancelled when necessary. Never thought that US foreign diplomacy is a prisoner of agreements made in a different time and a different cause.
People don't even bother to read the first 5 paragraphs of Hamas's charter, where they tell the world what they think of Jews and a two-state solution. Why would they get off their lazy asses to read treaties? Information has never been more accessible, and people are more uninformed than ever, like this person Denise, who thinks the ICC is a serious organization. I'll bet she has no idea who the chief prosecutor is. She probably takes the UN seriously also.
Actually, Hamas did agree to a two-state solution.
Still waiting for your source. Certainly not its charter.
Of course. Hamas wanted to be part of the two state solution to keep running their police state just like the moolah in Iran. Hamas needs. to go. Period. and they never should have been on the ballot in 2006 because they were a terrorist organization with the weapons and Bush Junior failed to vet them. They were at polling stations that were monitored by the UN carrying weapons and threatening people. Palestinians didn’t want them in 2006 and they don’t want them now. They are murderers..
Sorry, you are grossly naive. Israel has been under attack from the Arab world since its creation in 1948. please read and ask yourself, is it really Israels fault that no Palestine exists, or is it because the Arabs first concern is to destroy the jewish state.
History shows that the Palestinians have refused many offers for peace. Netanyahu is a boor, but it is decades of Arab hate that got us here.
The ICC is a serious organization. You may not know how it works, though. It cannot go into Israel (a sovereign nation) and arrest Netanyahu. Only if Netanyahu "leaves" Israel can he be intercepted and arrested. Most of their prior arrests have been with heads of African nations. Arresting Netanyahu would be a departure. Now, the ICC has one disadvantage: it does not have its own army or police force. My guess is that the funding is not there. Also, one more fact. China, Russia, the US, India, and other rich nations did not sign onto the ICC. One can understand why this is so. However, the Palestinian territories did sign on in recent years, and that is the reason that the ICC can intervene. But intervene only in regard to the slaughter in Gaza, and the arrest of higher-ups in Hamas.
Thank you. Facts matter. The fact that these protesters aren't going to vote, makes me think of my father-in-law. There's no excuse for stupidity.
You and I know this, but it’s not so obvious to some people unfortunately!
So, it's vote for the clown because the idiot will be worse. In hindsight, the best event to occur in the early 21stC was the Democratic Party losing both House, Senate and Presidency due to the fact that they counted on the electorate fearing the Republicans more that holding Democrats accountable for their gutless, bankrupt polices. Stein is preferable to the three manos. And drop the wasted vote crap. Following that logic, only those who vote for the winner don't waste their vote. Palpable nonsense.
Putin Puppet.
Despite the political propaganda, Stein has no connections to Putin.
Stein can only be a spoiler. So if you want to help trump, vote Stein.
Biden should have cut off weapons and diplomatic support to Israel months ago. Instead, he is sending billions more.
Agree, Lynn!
And what impact do you suppose that would have on the countries in the region, who would be emboldened and encouraged to act, and who would be weakened, and what the consequences of that would be? What impact do you think that would have on our allies' confidence in our commitments to them?
And don't you dare say something as evasive and empty as, "I don't care. I just want the killing to stop." That's not an answer. It's an evasion. Everyone but Hamas wants the killing to stop.
That's not true. Israel has to keep the killing going as a subterfuge to keep stealing Palestinian land and shooting those who protest by throwing stones.
Look, Netanyahu has to keep the "war" going against Palestinians, bomb the Iranian consulate, and anything else he can think of, in order to stay in power, and in order to go along with Ministers Itimar Ben-Givr and Bezalel Smotrich, who have him by the b***s. If their two small far-right parties leave Netanyahu's coalition, he would cease to be prime minister. He would then have to face his three trials. So Netanyahu is between a rock and a hard place.
Does anyone wonder why the Hamas attack, the West Bank slaughter of Palestinians, and the war are all happening now? The answer is Netanyahu has to stay out of prison, far-right Israeli settlers want complete control of the West Bank, and Smotrich and Ben-Givr want Israel to become a religious state, which would have dire consequences for the future of the country. According to a previous Israeli prime minister, Ben-Givr and Smotrich are "extorting" Netanyahu. His word.
Israel has to keep it going because they now have a real taste for killing, and because Netanyahu wants to keep out of jail.
Which countries do you mean, exactly? Much of the world has condemned Israel's actions. Press reports say the ICC is considering issuing an arrest warrant for Netanyahu, on war crimes charges.
Our allies would see that we'll support them to the point at which their actions are unconscionable, which is a good thing. They'd see that the U.S. will advocate for innocent civilians and condemn war crimes.
And by the way, stuff that "don't you dare" BS. You can't dictate how people respond.
Israel's actions have been unconscionable for seven months now, and actually for years, decades before Oct. 7.
I agree, Peter. The Hamas attack was unquestionably terrorism, and I personally don't see a justification for that, ever, but Israel most definitely isn't lily-white in this equation.
Netanyahu and his cabinet don't want the killing to stop. His finance minister just called for the total destruction of Rafah.
Bibi and tRump are old acquaintances. tRump would promise him anything, and as soon as he took office, Netanyahu would magically stop.
Absolutely not true. If the war stops, Ben-Givr and Smotrich leave the coalition. And Netanyahu ceases to be prime minister.
The key to this whole mess are these two ministers, who think Palestinians are animals, and want them destroyed. They want ALL Palestinians out of Israel, one way or another. Netanyahu has to keep the balls spinning in the air. If this sounds crazy, I have proof.
I've not confirmed the report I heard last fall which suggested Putin was funding Hamas or coordinating the Oct 7th attack, plus associations between Iran & Putin; essentially a coordinated effort to divert US attention from Ukraine so we've got this dual threat occupying our time and resources, which divides our country further and helps elect Donnie Darko Drumpf to 2nd term...then Jared Kushner can do all that prime real estate development once IDF & Bibi clear it of all those pesky civilians...it's freakin horrific the flat affect Kushner spoke with at Harvard(?) months ago.
About Putin, people use his name anytime they need a villain. The war between Ukraine and Russia could have been avoided. The West has misunderstood Putin for years. I really doubt that he is involved in trying to remove all Palestinians from Israel. The real villains here are Ben-Givr and Smotrich, who have an agenda to rid Israel of all Palestinians, and others who stand in the way of Israel becoming a religiously ruled state. That is a fact. Sadly, Netanyahu is being coerced to kill off the Palestinian population, just so he can stay in power. He's doing what Smotrich and Ben-Givr want.
Hell, Netanyahu supported funding Hamas.
I don't think so. Netanyahu would get even worse, if that's possible.
I see no mention of Netanyahu stated step to a ceasefire.
Release the Hostages.
No sympathy from this list for those who were kidnapped by rapists and marauders.
Release the Hostages if you actually want an end.
Better than extorting a close Ally.
As I've said, Netanyahu HAS to keep the war going. And he will, because that is preferable to losing his status as prime minister. He will do anything to stay in power, because the alternative is devastating.
Within a day or so after Oct. 7, Hamas publicly offered to release all captives if Israel would do the same and not attack Gaza. Israel refused.
The hostages are dead, let's be honest: with supplies into the area cutoff by Netanyahu IDF AND THE FAMILIES OF THE HOSTAGES! Yes, they've been trying to form human blockade to prevent supplies from entering the area where their loved ones are held and dependent on Hamas for survival items like FOOD WATER & FIRST AID.
There's no easy answers, but we have to inform ourselves and each other in a respectful manner--while constantly mindful of the threat Americans-us, here will face this fall...No matter WHO wins, there's a continuing threat to democracy through January 2025 and maybe longer 😬
Biden isn't the sovereign in this instance the governor are. It is not Biden's role to solve this problem. His role is to only support the rights of Freedom of Speech and to Gather along with the responsibility to respect the law and the rights of the protestors fellow citizens.
It's the governor's responsibility with the aid of the university administration to sort out the rights and responsibilities so that everyone avoids overreach. What's overreach? When the rights of one citizen collides with another citizen's, that's when the governor needs to step in help sort things out. Some of it is simple enough. If the protestors are seeking resolution from an entity, then it must first be determined whether the protestors have standing and then whether the entity has the power to change the grievance of the protestors. If that is all sorted and are answered in the affirmative, then negotiations begin.
Elimination of protestors without standing, no legitimate reason to be involved, must happen quickly and without intimidating protestors with standing. Physical protection of protestors with standing is a fundamental responsibility of government at all levels even if the protestors are protesting government.
Unfortunately, the protesters fail to understand that when the cause destruction of property and occupation of buildings, their message gets lost and the story line becomes about their lawlessness and destruction of property.
Non violent protests all the messaging to stay focused on their moral outrage. But there is an element that just wants to do violence. Just look at what happened with the post George Floyd incident protests. The message got lost in the violence.
I agree 100% about the violence, Harry. That's never OK. According to my [admittedly limited] reading about the violence in the Floyd protests, it was rare, and was mostly committed by opportunists wanting to profit from the unrest.
No, I don't think occupying buildings is the answer. You're absolutely correct that doing so obliterates the message of the protest.
Exactly. Biden holds the position of the most powerful president on the face of the earth and is the main supplier of Israeli arms. We need to stop giving him a pass.
Couldn't agree more, Mary.
Thank you 😊
Release the Hostages. Required for ceasefire.
Don’t extort an Ally.
I agree that the hostages should be released. But before anything else, stop the killing of civilians.
And at this point, Israel isn't acting like an ally. It's acting like a user---a user of U.S. military aid while it defies pretty much the rest of the world.
But he did tell Netanyahu that an attack on Rafah WILL close that store. I believe Biden. While Bibi threatens there has been no attack on Rafah
Well, Fay, the IDF is attacking Rafah, and while Biden paused the delivery of 2000-pound bombs, he's pushing for tank and mortar ammo to be supplied. As WaPo put it, "The decision underscores the administration’s reluctance to defy pro-Israel donors in the Democratic Party who criticized Biden’s decision last week to withhold the shipment."
So much fir Biden’s concern about Gazans....
Biden, Shumer, and Pelosi told the Israelis: we support you but not your current leaders. It is now up for the Israelis to do what is in their best interest, which is obvious to some of us, but not to them, because the Israeli media is controlled and censored by their government. To force that government to change course would require a lot more than stopping arms shipments to Israel.
Perhaps if we withdraw all aid and actively join the countries who are condemning Israel's slaughter of civilians, the message will get through. But even if not, to repeat, we must stop being complicit in genocide. That's the least we can do.
I personally don't care what happens to the Israeli government; Netanyahu is their problem. Rather similar to the situation here with 45---we broke it, up to us to fix it.
Your comment makes no sense.
No Denise it is not beside the point. Because if the tea read leaders rare correct, Trump will be the next President and he will solve the campus protest problem, by rounding up and expelling Muslims, he has said that is his plan, and they rare part of the 11 million immigrants that he seeks to expel.
If you are truly concerned about the Gazans,and are not a HAMAS ally, then vent your spleen on the cowards that started this by wanton slaughter and rape,then ran back to Gaza using their own people and hostages as human shields.
I'm quite well aware of what t***p says he's going to do, William. Aside from the fact that he hasn't won the election yet (I don't believe he will) he's not in office now. This current discussion revolves around what Biden is doing, or not doing. Couching every argument in the "t***p is worse" mantra merely muddies the waters.
Trump is going to win, if the Muslims threaten to sit out the election. There are only three vital swing states,Wi, MI, PA and there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in each, and in 2020 Biden won each state by tens of thousands.
So if yhe asshats follow through, they will rue the day, because Biden has said what he is going to do to Muslims, round them up and deport them. and he wil because he will enact Project 2025.
Focusing on Biden, and here is only 6 more months to the election is a fools errand plays into the hands of the MAGAts and Trump.
So go "Fuck Biden"and enjoy Trump.
Please re-read your comment. It doesn't make sense. Biden and Project 2025?
If I read it according to what I'm guessing you meant, then why would Muslims vote for t***p, if he's going to deport them?
The only offer on the table right now includes a permanent ceasefire leaving Hamas in place. This is just not viable. 😭
I agree but it also needs to be remembered that in the past presidents have simply not given more weapons and ended the entire foreign conflict. Biden surely can do more and his admin knows it. Look at how many potential pro-Zionist admin he has… I think that’s the core of the issue and they’re being very selfish risking not only this important election but thousands of human lives in this way.
I agree completely, but I will still vote for Biden even though I’m very disappointed in how he has handled Netanyahu. I wholeheartedly support the peaceful student protesters. Unfortunately, they are not being allowed to protest peacefully. I fully blame the Republicans for this too.
Biden has personally supported genocide and condemned student protesters, implying they are the source of the violence. I could never vote for him.
Almost all of the violence at the encampments has come from pro-zionist attackers and from the police who showed their power and their willingness to beat, tear gas, and even shoot at peaceful students.
MAGA Moron Detector here: go find a new Substack to troll. You’re the equivalent of a mosquito buzzing around just waiting to he slapped.
I don't know; I don't have time to review all the Putin propaganda, so it's kind of informative to get a review thanks to "Loser."
Troll much, Sparky?
Of course it's possible, in fact probable, that Trump militia are igniting things, just as they did in summer 2020 BLM protests .. That time many of them were apprehended - Boogaloo Bois in particular - setting the Minneapolis police station on fire, a move that launched the turn to violence - and others killed federal police out in California ... And all the while, they were serving up Trump's preferred platform: run on crime and violence and mayhem, as all allegedly being Democratic doings ... and now his absurd speech yesterday in Wisconsin, including spreading rumor-lies about Biden's stance in re campus protests...
What kind of alternative reality are you spouting?
also see:
https://www.startribune.com/brainerd-man-sentenced-to-four-years-in-federal-prison-for-role-in-burning-minneapolis-police-third/600051280/
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/03/10/boogaloo-member-gets-3-years-for-terror-charge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movement
https://www.startribune.com/texas-member-of-boogaloo-bois-charged-with-opening-fire-on-minneapolis-police-precinct-during-protes/572843802/
another:
Outsiders, extremists are among those fomenting violence in Twin Cities
Jon Collins and Elizabeth Shockman
May 30, 2020 3:17 PM
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/30/outsiders-extremists-are-among-those-fomenting-violence-in-twin-cities
People loot then burn an Office Depot Friday in Minneapolis. Protests continued following the killing of George Floyd, who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police officers on Memorial Day. John Minchillo | AP Photo file
Updated: 3:11 p.m., May 31, 2020
On his way home from a protest Friday night in Minneapolis, Jonathan Turner Bargen encountered a white man in a red pickup truck. The man was carrying an assault rifle and a handgun, Turner Bargen said. Then he noticed a symbol from the far-right militia group Three Percenters affixed to the truck.
“I circled back and took pictures of the vehicle. I was concerned about why they were present at the downtown protest, and had no idea who to notify,” said Turner Bargen in an email to MPR News.
State officials, protesters and residents say they’re alarmed by the presence of extremists who may be using Twin Cities protests against the police killing of George Floyd as cover to burn down buildings and face off with law enforcement. Hundreds of buildings have been damaged and many totally burned in recent days.
* From the White HouseTrump urges Minnesota officials to get 'tougher' <https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/30/trump-urges-minnesota-officials-to-get-tougher>
Gov. Tim Walz said state officials estimated that 80 percent of the people involved in the violence and destruction were from outside the state.
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But according to an analysis of Hennepin County jail records, 83 percent of people who were booked in connection with the protests over a 24-hour stretch starting Friday were from Minnesota, and 56 percent were from Minneapolis or St. Paul.
Walz said that what began as peaceful demonstrations in response to the killing of George Floyd in police custody on May 25 have turned into something else.
“The situation in Minneapolis is no longer in any way about the murder of George Floyd,” Walz said at a morning news conference. “It is about attacking civil society, instilling fear, and disrupting our great cities.”
St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter said Saturday morning that none of the people arrested in St. Paul Friday night were from Minnesota. However, after MPR News requested arrest records, police confirmed that seven of the 18 people arrested in connection to the protests from Friday night to early Saturday morning were from Minneapolis or St. Paul. Four came from Wisconsin, Texas and North Dakota.
Carter corrected himself later in the day, saying he had been given inaccurate information.
Accounts of armed menProtesters and onlookers have posted numerous videos and accounts of confrontations with white men on social media, sometimes including symbols associated with fringe groups that originated online.
Many people have also told MPR News reporters of witnessing armed men in Minneapolis.
Bridget Schumann was out for a run near Calhoun Square in south Minneapolis on Friday night when she saw a truck that was being driven aggressively, honking and intimidating other drivers. The truck had a big white sticker on the back of the cab with the OK sign symbol associated with white supremacists.
“There were two men in the driver and passenger seat and they were wearing camo bulletproof vests and they were armed,” she said.
Schumann watched them get out of the truck and walk around in an apartment building parking garage like they were looking for something. She saw them scream at a woman leaving the garage. After they saw Schumann again, she got scared and called her boyfriend to pick her up.
“Very out of place. They weren’t cops, they weren’t National Guard,” Schumann said. “It was all just really hostile.”
The still smoking Hexagon Bar in South Minneapolis on Friday, the morning after it burned during protests in response to George Floyd's death.
Nate Ryan | MPR
In the predawn hours of Friday, KJ Starr watched from her yard in the Seward neighborhood, which has been especially hard hit by arson, as nearby buildings were consumed by balls of fire and billowing smoke.
With police and firefighters nowhere in sight, Starr and friends have been trying to fight fires themselves. When a nearby pizza shop went up in flames, she and some friends walked over to see what they could do. She was terrified by what she saw.
“This pickup truck of a dozen armed men just pulls up next to us,” she said. “I just did a total pivot.”
Arson at a liquor storeMinneapolis resident Rishi Ragoonanan woke up early for work on Friday morning, and saw a man who appeared to be white walk up to boxes of cardboard in the middle of a liquor store parking lot. The man lit the boxes, pushed them up against the wall of the store, and walked away.
Ragoonanan and neighbors ran outside and dragged the flaming boxes away from the wall. The liquor store was set on fire again the next night.
“None of us got any sleep for the last four days, trying to save this liquor store,” Ragoonanan said. “If this liquor catches fire, this whole neighborhood will burn down.”
Many people say they are leery of confronting those they suspect of contributing to the violence.
Turner Bargen, who saw a truck with a Three Percenters symbol on it, said he was afraid to confront the person, and afraid to call the police because he didn’t want an innocent person to get hurt by a police department that he no longer trusts.
Later he said he thought he’d made the wrong choice and wished he’d had the courage to confront the person himself. The owner of the truck, for his part, told MPR News on Sunday he has been marching with the demonstrators in support of justice for George Floyd.
The stated goals of the Three Percenters militia groups are vague, but they position themselves as protectors of the Constitution and have been associated with right-wing, anti-government causes <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/10/oregon-standoff-three-percenter-groups>. According to their official website, they aim to “get patriots to network, prepare, and petition together on a local level.”
The group’s name comes from the idea that only 3 percent of American colonists took up arms against the British. In 2018, three members of an <https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/03/15/bloomington-mosque-bombing-suspect-leads-anti-government-militia>Illinois-based branch of the militia were arrested in connection with a bombing of a mosque <https://www.revealnews.org/blog/hate-report-get-to-know-the-three-percenters/> in Minnesota. Others were identified in military-style gear <https://qz.com/1053604/who-were-the-armed-camouflaged-men-in-charlottesville-who-have-nothing-to-do-with-the-military/> at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Va.
Other groups have also turned their attention to the situation in Minneapolis. Chatter on social media suggests that far-right activists and fringe libertarian groups are seizing on the instability to provoke violence and destruction.
On the Facebook page <https://www.facebook.com/pg/bigigloobois/posts/>Big Igloo Bois, administrators have been posting callouts for members to protest in Minneapolis, with one administrator urging members to “come in peace, prepare for there to be violence.”
The page is linked with the Boogaloo Bois, an anti-government far-right group which has made police brutality one of its central issues. The term “boogaloo” <https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-movement-is-not-what-you-think/> refers to a civil war between law enforcement and American citizens.
See, for example: https://news.yahoo.com/white-supremacist-posed-black-lives-001200383.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/minnesota-man-becomes-2nd-boogaloo-bois-member-to-plead-guilty-to-federal-terrorism-charge/
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/ivan-hunter-minneapolis-police-3rd-precinct/
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/10/twin-cities-man-first-to-be-sentenced-for-arson-from-may-unrest
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/boogaloo-bois-minneapolis-precinct-antifa_n_5f938cdfc5b6a2e1fb616689
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/10/23/boogaloo-bois-including-accused-bay-area-cop-killer-communicated-as-they-planned-attacks-against-police-across-us-feds-say/
https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2020/06/boogaloo-movement-seeks-second-civil-war-may-be-trying-to-incite-violence-at-protests.html
the counter protestors. But see links i posted just above. His influence is mostly in 'inspiring' and directing infiltrators who aren't actual protestors but pretending to be (even dressing to pass off as) protestors. They're protest-opportunists seeking to create the chaos that "justifies" armed response by (Trumpist) militia groups
The Republican Party is a subversive terrorist party & you're a traitorous anti-American troll working on behalf of the fascist tyrant Putin & his criminal puppet Benedict Donald, the Siberian Candidate.
Listen up, MAGAt. Your idiotic fascist cultism isn’t going to change any minds or influence anyone here. Why don’t you go find your “kind”? I’m sure it’s tempting to want to crash the smart, successful, interesting, creative, cool people’s party because no one invited you and you’re curious. But really: no one invited you. And it’s just weird that you’re here. Kindly see your sad little MAGAt self out. Thanks.
wow.
another planet.
i actually think it's sad. you've been mega-maga-duped.
I see no mention of kidnapped Hostages.
If you wanted a Ceasefire, just release the Hostages, and Israel will stop. They have clearly stated this desired solution.
Nobody even asks for their release.
Maybe the over 8,500 hostages israel abducted from the West Bank should be freed as well as the tens of thousands of Palestinians it has imprisoned and tortured and starved for no crime! Even kids, for picking herbs! You want hostages released, yes, me too, but ALL on both sides, and stop the bombings, the killings, the genocide and the stealing of land! End the apartheid! Open your eyes and see what is and has been happening! Free Palestine from this horror!
Exactly!
I wish that people were aware of this! 'Free Them Now...' How many hostages Israel has taken, even children, and imprisoned them unlawfully...and the abuse and treatment they get in prison is awful. They have been putting zip ties so tight on the wrists and leaving them on so long that they are amputating the hands of Palestinians. Really, the israeli behavior is something out of a horror movie. And who are the victims? Why does the world not see it for what it is?? The devastation they have caused in Gaza for they October 7th resistance attack (because Palestine has a right to defend itself, especially on its land!) , was mostly caused by the occupation forces without regard for the lives of their own people. Disgusting. And the world's response to this genocide, this holocaust is equally disgusting!
If you want your hostages back, do a cease fire and get out of Gaza. Simple.
Israel has stated that the hostages are secondary to their military goal of eliminating Hamas. Hamas knows that once the hostages are all released, there isn't anything that restrains the Israelis from Armageddon.
Exactly, Israel never keeps its word. Why should they? No matter what they do our government which is bought off by pro-Israel money will defend them against the world and keep sending the money.
The hostages are Hamas’ only leverage. I wonder if they are even still in Gaza.
Had Israel left Gaza and released their Palestinian hostages they would have got the Israeli hostages back. They gave a lot back during that pathetic “pause”.
But Israelis don’t want to give up on their deeply cherished dream of eliminating the Palestinians by ANY means. They demand revenge AND they want their hostages back. I’m not sure they can make up their minds which is more important. They clearly can’t choose.
Netanyahu has repeatedly refused to stop the genocide, even to get the hostages released. As far as we know the only hostages harmed were killed in Israel attacks or shot point-blank by the Israeli Occupation Forces.
That's just it. Israel will not stop. They won't even stop with a ceasefire.
Israel followed the Ceasefire in November.
They extended that ceasefire.
Hamas broke the ceasefire.
More false information. Hamas did not break the ceasefire, but Israeli forces did. (As they have broken every ceasefire.)
No they did not. I am unaware that any of the conditions of the ceasefire were broken by either side.
Israel offered to extend.
There is no point on stopping now they went so deeply into Gaza. Its like sewing up the patient with cancer still inside. because the operation is costing more that estimated. Israel needs to finish Hamas permanently.
America wants a racist State in the Middle East.
This defies US Law, this defies UN Law.
A Country adjacent to Israel where no Jews will be allowed to live and where their Safety is not guaranteed .
Sounds like the Columbia protesters have joined the State Department.
Sounds like a Money Laundering scheme, not a plan for Peace.
As opposed to the apartheid state of Israel, with constant ethnic cleansing, discrimination, and brutal violence, and mass detention of Palestinians without charge or trial?
This is the answer! Return the hostages and the war is over. Until you understand Arabic, you cannot understand the Palestinian mentality, and until you have been to Israel and experienced it for yourself, you really can't understand that it is truly an existential response on their part to Hamas, who are terrorists, and using their own Palestinian civilians as human shields...
Nonsense. Israel has repeatedly refused to end the genocide even if the Israeli captives are returned.
Israeli Occupation Forces use Palestinians as human shields all the time, but I'm not aware of even one instance where Hamas has done so.
Terrorists? I think it would be far more reasonable to call Hamas and other militant groups 'freedom fighters'.
Yes, I believe so. The ones who benefit from social unrest & violence at these protests are Putin, Trump, the Republican Party & the extreme right. Right-wing terrorist groups like the Proud Boys & Boogaloo Boyz infiltrated the George Floyd protests, inciting violence & looting, so why wouldn't they take advantage of these protests & do the same? Also Russia has a tremendous presence & influence on social media along with ties to Republican & other far right operatives in the US.
The question is, are the real student idealists supposed to give up, because of fear of being co-opted by trolls? I don't know a solution.
Nor do I, other than to be aware of such possibilities, try to preempt them, & not blame the wrong parties.
Yep, I'm quite sure that the flames are being fanned by the Republikkkan extremists. I have no evidence. It's just that the timing of all of this, back to the start of the genocide, is too convenient for tRump. Shit started to get real for the giant Orange Malignancy and suddenly there's an international incident, caused by an old old "friend" of tRump's, from back in the 90s. If there's a way to consolidate power in the Middle East, look at Jared Kushner, at the meetings between The Orange One and other fascistic leaders, at the promises tRump's made to his real backers. They're just going to use him to get the office, then they'll "retire" him because of his dementia, and voila! We're done.
Lost in Alabama, when the word genocide is tossed around so freely, it loses meaning and nothing is genocide, that goes for anything, including antisemitism.
The UN convention on prevention of genocide states in Art 2, that the charge of genocide requires intention, now there are some Jews, especially in the government that have stated the desire to ethnically cleanse Gaza, there is even a land speculator selling lots on the Gaza sea front, and Jared Kushner has stated that the Gaza sea front is prime real estate
But Genocide requires the intention to obliterate a whole or part of a people, and the Gazans are Arabs and except for about 20 Christians Muslim, and it is ludicrous to claim that 10 million Jews can genocide a billion Arabs.
The official Israeli position is to eliminate an existential threat ...HAMAS, and that is not genocide.
That women and children are in the way, and suffering is a fact of war, and that is called collateral damage., not genocide.
HAMAS and it's advocates and allies, toss around the word genocide as if it were Skittles, because they know that too many in the west, who lack critical thinking skills, will pick it up and moan.
There are two wars in every field of battle, the ground war and the propaganda war, in this case HAMAS, a bloody, unconscionable tertorist group that uses its own people as human shields, is wining the propaganda war, and Israel knows that and is pressing full steam ahead anyway, because if they stop, HAMAS wins, declares victory, and continues to be an existential threat to Israel.
As far as I am concerned, the Israeli right are religious fascists, of the old testament variety, and are themselves a threat to democracy and Israel is a democracy, until the right wing takes total control of the government. The same problem here in the U.S.
What I will abide is that there are those on the Israeli right, and in government, and also here in the United States, like the MAGAts and Trump family that are advocates of ethnic cleansing, in fact ethnic cleansing is a more appropriate and realistic term than genocide.
If genocide is your concern,and it is genuine, then look no further than Ukraine and I have not seen one demonstration, not a peep from the left about the ongoing genocide in Ukraine. And that is a real genocide, Putin has declared his intention to obliterate Ukrainian language, culture, identity and government.
Where or where is the left wing outrage where are the campus protests, blocking of freeways and bridges.
Actually I am glad that there are none, because the corporate media,the Putin loving Trump humpers would be using them and their actions against them in a propaganda war in which the right has proven to be terribly effective, as compared to the feeble attempts on the left.
Americans don't look kindly at protests, and protests invariably achieve the opposite of what the protesters intend.
The VN War protests actually extended the war andl loss of life,because the public reacted against the protesters.
The only reason that Nixon pulled out, was because middle America was tired of seing their sons, brothers, fathers,uncles cousins coming home in caskets.
I totally agree w/ you,you wrote what I was thinking.A very troubling situation indeed.
What needs to be repeated VERY LOUDLY OVER & OVER<it's democracy vs autocracy.
Biden is only limited by his lack of courage to do the right thing and tell Netanyahu to call off his dogs.
Good points, but it was Biden who kept providing tons of arms; without that Israel would have had to stop and 50,000 lives would have been saved.
Would have had little influence on Hamas Health reporting.
The Gaza Health Bureau reports are considered conservative and extremely reliable by the UN — and they are also relied on by Israel!
Trump did a great deal in aggravating the situation in the first place. He encouraged Netanyahu by moving the US embassy to Jerusalem and effectively gave the green light to Jewish settlements in the Palestinian West Bank. Hamas was also against the Israel/Saudi treaty that Trump initiated; cited by some as one of the reasons for the 7th October attacks.
The withdrawal of support for Biden by those protesting against the war can only benefit Trump. We have a similar situation here with the UK Labour Party: the first set of local election results show a marked drop in votes for Labour from Muslim communities. Despite excellent results so far, Labour has lost overall control of Oldham Metropolitan Borough Council (in north west England), which has a high percentage of Muslims, as independent candidates picked up 7 seats. The loss of Muslim votes could stop Labour winning the mayoral race in the West Midlands, currently held by a Conservative.
Local elections in the UK are often used by voters to protest against a particular party or its policies, so it doesn’t necessarily mean the voting will follow the same pattern in general elections. With around 5-6 months before the general election, it leaves a lot of work to turn the support around in time.
What I find so frustrating is that by withdrawing support from the Democrats or Labour, voters are likely to end up with a government that is even less sympathetic to their cause.
It is not the Palestinian West Bank, It is Judea and Samaria. Referred to in the Oslo accords as Area C.
Area C is always be Israel, right down to the Final Day.
Arafat was signator.
Great reply
If we care to learn a little lesson from history, how about this: Fifty years after the events, recordings were released in which LBJ talked to Dick Nixon just days before the 1968 election.
LBJ had been talking to the Vietnamese, hoping to strike a deal and END the fighting in 1968 — Not only would that mean our boys would come home, but it would likely have guaranteed Humphrey’s election that year.
THE RECORDING reveals that Johnson knew Nixon supporters had gone to Paris and promised the South Vietnamese a “better deal” if they held off signing the Peace Accord until after the election.
That left American anti-war protesters still in the streets right u to the election, and peopople angry with Humphrey
Um absolutely not. He is definitely not the answer. He’s a Republican in disguise. He’s funded by Republican PACs. RFKJ is actually funneling away votes for Trump, so I’ll take that.
With what examples? That’s not the majority and just takes away from the core VERY IMPORTANT point of the protests. You should define a whole by just a few especially in vital circumstances like this one.
I “should define a whole by just a few…” ? I’m not clear on what you mean when you say that.
To reiterate, I was communicating an observation I made first-hand, in person. I’m not defining any “whole” but an element of what I observed. There were busloads of outsiders, not students, brought in to camp on the university grounds. Students were prevented by those elements from attending classes (during finals, no less) or entering the library. It took the Chancellor days to ask for order from law enforcement even as unrest broke out. In short, these were assuredly not all students peacefully protesting. That may be true on some university campuses but not on several campuses in Los Angeles.
There were outsiders at Columbia as well. Provocateurs taking advantage of a situation.
It does seem so, a mix of motives and viewpoints in this situation.
What you describe must be a 'parallel universe'!
Is it really that difficult to understand students' rage at a government that is actually complicit in genocide and the intentional slaughter of innocent civilians?
Sorry a typo it was meant to be “shouldn’t” of course
I thought so, but you can never be sure. Thanks for the correction!
I think it's misguided to focus on fringe elements that you mention. The vast majority of protesters are outraged at Israel's horrifying slaughter of women and children, while not denying Hamas' deadly, grotesque attack. But 35,000 Palestinians dead, mostly women and children? It's got to stop. And it's worth repeating that opposing Netanyahu's war is not anti-Jewish, although we must be on guard against antisemitism at all times.
I agree, 100%! There are atrocities on both sides of this issue and certainly initiated by the Hamas cowards who hide behind innocents. The rest of the Arab world has reason to get rid of Hamas as well, no doubt about it. Netanyahu is abhorred by many Israelis and he’s making an even more dangerous situation for Israelis who want the hostages released. I see the Biden Administration walking a fine line.
As to the protesters here at home, there are a number of agendas and plenty of agitators behind and within the ranks. The basic fact of wholesale slaughter is worthy of protest, of course. It’s being muddled and the messages of inhumanity is lost as a result, played by infiltrators. Let them stage their own protests and let the peaceful protests go forward in the spirit of Gandhi, Mandela, et. al.
The key word is “some.” The were called outside agitators with a distinct Southern twang during the Vietnam War demonstrations.
The protesters do not want to raise heck and cause trouble. Look no farther than the pro Zionist people that attacked them while they were sleeping.
The human brain is not fully developed until age 25, if then. Campus life is social to the extreme, and a handful of ideologues can take over a campus, most are seeking peer approval, high fives, bragging rights at coffee c klatches and keggers.
The major private universities and distinguished University of California Campuses, are the destination for the children of wealthy Arabs, and the universities are the destinations of Arab oil money endowments and fellowships.
Arabs are, by and large Muslim (except in Lebanon and the state of Israel), even there most Arabs are Muslim.
Muslims first and really their only loyalty is to the Ummah, the world wide community of Muslims. Rare indeed is the Muslim who criticizes Islam or rejects Muhammad and the Quran. There is no Muslim equivalent of a secular Jew critical of Judaism, and fundamentalist (Orthodox Jews) are even critical of Israel.
Whereas fundamentalistic Muslims are the likes of Al Qaeda, DAESH,ISK, the Ayatoolahs of Iran and the Wahhabiyyah of Saudi Arabia.
Thank you for that educated insight!
Thanks, but it doesn't get through to the the emotionally co opted. I believe that there exists a sublimated hatred of Jews in America, and the vicious attack by HAMAS on Israel, and Israels response, aided by Arab oil money, and Arab students played on that sublimated disdain or hatred.
Enabling them to deflect, even to themselves, by justifying their actions as concern for the poor civilians of Gaza and not antisemitism, but that excuse falls flat, because there was not and is not, a single demonstration against Russia, despite the fact that
Putin is conducting a real war of genocide, and has said so publicly many times. He denies the Ukrainian culture, language and state, and is bombing and killing innocent civilians, but not a single protest, no tents, no occupation of a university, no stopping traffic on freeways and bridges.
The protesters are using the Gaza war as an opportunity to finally express their utter anger openly against US foreign policy in the Middle East. The Gaza war rekindles the anger, but its origin dates back to post-9/11. US overall strategic response to al Qaeda's heinous attack on 9/11 was culturally and politically ill-informed. Hence, Arabs still blame the US for the decades-long destabilization of the region. Ironically, though, the US was the Arab leader's first call when ISIS was about to take over the region. And also explains why they have been reluctant in condemning Israel's war on Hamas, knowing well that if Hamas isn't annihilated now it could become a regional headache. That said, it's clear that they, like Biden, hope Israel would fight the war more sensibly and with compassion for human lives. But Israeli troops aren't well trained or tested in urban warfare techniques.
All that, yemi, plus the fact that there are Israeli citizens who disapprove of Netanyahu and his (some say) reckless prosecution of this current war. It can be said that he’s endangering the reputation of their country with the random slaughter of Gaza’s innocent civilians. We can only hope that both sides can be willing to root out the real culprits, the Hamas lunatics.
I am so laughing at all the conspiracy theorists here. It's easy to cast your own motivations upon people who believe that Palestinian decimation is real.
Show me your evidence.
From another's perspective you are the Trump empathizer here.
Your post seems exactly what would be posted by someone who supported Trump and wanted to sow division here amongst folks who dare to hold Israel to task for obliterating Palestinians.
So there you have it.
How does it feel to have your motivations questioned by someone who doesn't know you.
Doesn't feel good...Does it?
Then stop doing it to others.
"observed" how?
In person, off-campus people de-boarding from buses and hearing conversations as they carried camping supplies.
But in one school the library was trashed—what was the reason for THAT stupidity done and by whom? De Santis?
I would suspect that with all the foreign funds coming from Qatar and other middle eastern countries to universities, there is also funding going to outside groups to agitate. But they are not only focused on a cease-fire, but have expanded it to kill all the Jews, and “from the river to the sea,” without understanding where that started and what it means; same with the Red Hands and where that started. If they really wanted peace and to stop the killing, they’d also protest what Hamas did, and how they use their own civilians as shields, hiding weapons in schools, stealing truckloads of aid, etc.
And they won’t or don’t want to even admit that Hamas and other groups have ceaselessly fired rockets at Israel from Gaza, Lebanon, and now Yemen.
If they were concerned with peace, where is their outrage at what’s happening in Sudan and other African countries where people are kidnapped by groups such as Boku Haram???
I have seen no protestors attempting 'to raise heck and cause trouble.' I have seen no evidence of that.
I see that your comment here is marked as "Liked by Robert Reich" . I doubt that Reich would second your comment.
It appears that he did.
RR's conclusion is the one anyone without an agenda must reach. After listening to student journalists cover Columbia protests on WKCR-FM I hear a strong temptation to draw a parallel to '68. The contrasts RR enumerates far outweigh the similarities. NYC's mayor, unable to outgrow his NYPD copness, blames Outside Agitators, mixing CUNY (open campus) andj Columbia (tightly gated) same-night arrest stats. Sorting it all out won't happen overnight.
Non-students are also involved. How many were instigators? How many were part of planning this to disrupt the current US elections.
in the early 70s i had an 8-track tape by Abbie Hoffman-i think-entitled 'Revolution for the Hell of It-there are always mixed motives,always professional agitators,but usually a legitimate concern it's best not to ignore-those politicians who ignore valid concerns and outrage for short-term perceived political advantage are the real enemies of this country
I can understand why they wouldn't vote - they are being dismissed, ignored, mocked, beaten and arrested. All for having a moral compass and demanding that their government also have one. And I also understand and respect their means of making these demands because while docile, peaceful protests may have had some impact 60 years ago they sure as hell don't anymore. As I learned when I was an anti-war protestor in 2003 and we were dismissed by Cheney et al as "a focus group". You can't ask politely for your elected government to hear your concerns, you have to break down the doors and force them to listen to you - and exact consequences when they refuse to listen to you. Withholding your vote is a concrete, visible consequence. Why should they show up for a candidate who just today basically told them he doesn't care about their opinions and won't change anything, now shut up and go away.
But one has to be strategic about it. Suppose in withholding one’s vote an even worse administration wins and is installed [e.g. Trump] as a Transgender American I am fearful of a second Trump administration.
That’s what’s the most upsetting: Biden & his admin are the ones selfishly risking this election. It does not have to be him who is the candidate and he doesn’t have to overlook the obvious majority with talk that has no action. I expected way better from him. I still will be voting for the Dem because I know how our election system is but if it were actually the democracy it should be we would have something like RCV so this wouldn’t even be a worry. This shouldn’t even be an issue in the “land of the free”…
We elected Biden to make the hard and difficult choices. I submit that he’s thinking not just of the Israelis but also the Palestinians . . . AND . . . the rest of the World. Helping either or Both sides involves calculations that if they go awry could result in a larger regional conflict or worse a World War. What seems easy to us on the sidelines is likely much less so on a global basis.
Yup. It's all about money and power and the people suffer but rarely those in power or behind the power.
Yeah, but he's the candidate. This is the choice. That's democracy. No one gets everything they want.
It ain’t the land of the free, but of the stupid & that’s the problem
They set up the electoral college largely to win over the slave states.
Calling democracy 'mob rule' is silly and offensive.
The fact that people in sparsely-settled states have more influence than those in more populous states doesn't make sense for a democracy or for a republic.
Too on the money 💔 Biden’s admin is only proving it more with these choices. I can’t deny progressive complaints they are in fact valid
We have an oligarchy if one votes Biden and fascism with Trump. Both outcomes don't favor life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I have supported Marianne Williamson during the primaries since she's the best and most honest candidate with a fabulous platform for the people and Earth. Check her out if you still have a primary coming your way in OR or MD. Sadly, she got blacklisted by MSN with ties to the DNC. Neither major party works for the people, so goes our democracy.
They *are* being strategic about it, by withholding their vote in the election where that action has the greatest potential impact. If you are willing to go to these lengths to petition your government for redress of grievance, why would you then turn around and violate your own principles by supporting those who ignored you and worked to suppress you, sometimes violently?
You're mixing up so many terms and concepts. Occupying buildings in the school to which you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars as a protest against occupation isn't "petitioning your government for redress of grievances." It's a self-absorbed tantrum by kids barely out of high school who couldn't tell you which river and which sea they're chanting about, and who think Hamas is a progressive, left-wing movement.
It's a tactic that helped establish civil rights, end the Vietnam war, and force the US to stop backing apartheid in South Africa. It is freedom of assembly. And if they pay 'hundreds of thousands of dollars to attend the uni, why shouldn't they have a say in what it does?
For the hundreth time, the protests that ruined Humphrey's campaign in 1968 paved the way for Nixon, who expanded the war and kept it going for his five years in office.
Question...how did you feel about the Irish Republican Army?
Probably not a provocateur. Just selfish.
Going to ‘these lengths’ could get us all in a heap worse mess.
How do you know you are being ignored? What if your stated goals, don't match your demands? Look how well financial sanctions have worked in Ukraine. Two years and counting with Putin throwing more Russians into the fight. Every Palestinian in Gaza would be dead before defunding universities would cause a critical failure on the Israeli economy.
Because said so in his statement - I'm not changing my policy, I'm ignoring you.
They’re risking the loss of our democracy and likely the freedom and safety of Transgender, Lesbian, Gay, and others that the G.O.P. and Trump would likely go after.
So you're saying that people shouldn't vote according to their values, ethics or morals? You're saying that the ballot box is *not* the place where the people should express their will and requirements of their government? Or is that whole "representative democracy" thing just a load of pretty bullshit on a piece of paper and doesn't really mean anything? That we fought the Revolutionary War for no difference from a monarchy after all, just vote for who you're told to vote for and to hell with thinking for yourself?
No we are simply asking for people to look at the bigger picture. Yes, Gaza is an issue. But is Gaza a bigger issue than the United States, a democracy, becoming a fascist state? Please look at the big picture on this.
the Leftist Loser needs to check his medication list.
I am too — but I am also fearful of a 2nd Biden administration, since he has proved complicit in genocide and countless war crimes and has implied that the peaceful student protests were unlawful — betraying the Constitution that he and all elected officials swore to uphold.
Yes because then sanity will rain instead of praising mental illness
Why vote for a candidate who just today basically told them he doesn't care about their opinions and won't change anything, now shut up and go away?
Because not doing so will put the other guy in, and he really is worse: he won't just tell you to shut up and go away--he'll put you in prison or worse; he'll send Israel even more powerful weapons; he'll officially "recognize Gaza and the West Bank and East Jerusalem as part of Israel (like he already recognized the Golan Heights as part of Israel); maybe he'll even draft you and make you go kill Palestinians for Israel--and not just in Gaza: in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, maybe even in Lebanon and Jordan and Iran.
How do I know? Because I voted for a 3rd party candidate in 1968 because I had a moral compass and was demanding my government have one, too. Humphrey was LBJ's VP and supported the war (at least publicly), so I wasn't going to vote for him (I didn't know that, quietly, secretly, LBJ was already in peace negotiations with Ho Chi Minh). Nixon said he'd end the war, but I already knew he was a liar, and all his other policies were evil. I figured that just about everybody could see that, so there was no chance he'd win. So I voted 3rd party to make a point.
And the next day, Nixon was president, and he stretched that war in Vietnam on for years and years. He made it worse; he killed Americans and Vietnamese and Cambodians and Laotians--he spread that war out. And all his policies were even worse than I expected.
So, I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Biden. His other policies are good, and I'll hope he'll grow a spine where Israel is concerned (he's showing very small signs of one) because all the Palestinians are doomed if Trump gets in.
What Maureen said.
Well said, Maureen. Failure to consider the possible long-term consequences of your actions could make a mockery of your principles, no matter how lofty. Trump could be even worse than Nixon. In 2016, before he caved in, Florida Senator Rubio warned that entrusting Trump with our nuclear weapons was extremely dangerous. If anything, Tump is more dangerous now.
Thank you. I fear Trump would be much worse than Nixon.
Trump is the one who moved the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and decided unilaterally to "recognize" the Golan Heights as part of Israel. Biden's partiality to Israel is what is leaving the door open to a Middle Eastern War, but, at least, the is trying to keep Netanyahu under control, especially when it came to retaliating against Iran. Trump would tell Yahoo, "Go for it!"
Please explain your question. It is vague.
His policy of supporting genocide makes him unacceptable.
If by "his," you mean Biden,Trump also supports genocide and is likely to be worse, and only he or Biden can win. Voting 3rd party or not voting will just help Trump win. So what are you going to do?
Can't even spell or punctuate. Doesn't surprise me.
The Palestinians are not Arabs.
In 2017, research was published on the excavation of some Canaanite burials in Israel (the Canaanites were the indigenous people of the ancient Levant (modern Israel, Palestine, Transjordan, Lebanon, and coastal Syria). They spoke a Semitic language related to Hebrew). They were well enough preserved that the archeologists could extract DNA from them. They found more than a 50% match with the DNA of Palestinians and with the DNA of Jews (and over a 90% match with Lebanese), which means that all three have been in Palestine for at least 4000 - 5000 years.
Despite the Torah’s saying Yahweh told the Israelites to exterminate the Canaanites, archeological research shows the Israelites were Canaanites, and Israelite culture was largely Canaanite in nature; in fact, a pre-Israelite Canaanite temple to Yahweh and his wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, was found by archeologists in Israel. An Oxford scholar in 1967, Raphael Patai, was the first historian to mention that the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah (though many scholars would call those who worshiped both “pre-Israelites”).
Thus, archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times.
Not all Jews left Israel after 70 AD. Some of their descendants who remained in Palestine are among the ancestors of today’s Palestinian Jews. Others of their descendants converted to Christianity and are among the ancestors of today’s Palestinian Christians. Many more later converted to Islam and are among the ancestors of today’s Palestinian Muslims whom Israelis call “Arabs” (though the only Palestinians of actual Arab ancestry are the Bedouin and the Druze, who make up about 3% of Palestinians). At least a third of the Palestinians are descended from Jewish families who converted to Islam.
As late as the 17th century, Hebron was a Jewish majority city. Ever since the Rambam (Maimonides), who ruled that converting to Islam did not constitute apostasy, since Islam, like Judaism, and unlike Pre-Reformation Christianity, was not an idolatrous religion. Jewish residents of Palestine had been gradually converting to Islam since the 16th century. There was a massive wave of conversion following the societal collapse that Judaism experienced following the conversion of False Messiah Shabbtai Tzvi to Islam in the 17th century. Until the 17th century, at least a third of the population of The Land of Israel (aka Palestine) was Jewish, some sources put the figure at just under half. by the end of the 18th century this number had gone down to just over 10%. Since there was no wave of emigration, the only answer is conversion.
As I have heard it put, the Jews are those who left the land but kept the religion, while the Palestinians are those who kept the land but left the religion. Both claim the land on the basis of what they kept and consider what they didn't keep irrelevant.
It's things like Psalm 137:9 "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" that made me decide that YWH is a god I can neither respect nor worship.
You are correct about the other IDIOT he may want you to kill Palestinians first, then brown people and finally even black peoples within the USA.
All decent people must VOTE as you have to choose between the lesser EVIL.I feel sorry for the people of US when you look at what they have to choose between.Two old people with ideas out of tune with the present!
Actually, I thought Biden was doing a good job before the Israeli-Gaza issue. Some of his ideas--like using Keynsian economics, supporting unions, and supporting American manufacturing--may have been old-fashioned, but they were a real improvement on the neo-liberal and neo-conservative ideas of his predecessors.
Unfortunately, I think your comment about ideas out of tune with the present is a good part of the problem with his response to Israel. As Joshua Liefer wrote in the Guardian, "Israel hasn't been a democracy for a long time," but Biden's understanding of it was formed when it--more or less-was.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/30/israel-hasnt-been-a-democracy-for-a-long-time-now-israelis-need-to-face-this-fact
Hey,No need for that kind of language.I am not a democrat and thank god don’t live in USA
You voted for a third-party candidate in 1968? Who was that? George Wallace? You didn't do the Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotians or American service members any favors by essentially voting for Nixon. He escalated the war and continued it for five more years. Smart move, Einstein. You helped get another million people killed.
I voted for Dick Gregory. My only connection to Wallace was protesting against him when he gave a talk in my home town.
If you read my whole post, you will see that I am quite aware of the damage I did by not voting for Humphrey--I'm warning others, like ConstanceReader, not to make the same mistake.
Thanks for rubbing it in; I've felt guilty for my mistake ever since.
Doing what, Mr. Rickles?
Suuuure.
I think the guy who's in favor of nuking hurricanes is more likely to get you into WWIII.
Boring
You're doing a good job of proving that Trumper accusations are really confessions.
Inflation started with Trump, and Biden is bringing it down. Trump scheduled the withdrawal from Afghanistan; Biden came into office too late to reverse it.
What I do approve of are his efforts to restore the US middle-class by supporting unions, bringing manufacturing back to the US, forgiving student loans, etc
Sigh . . . .
Like I said, every Trumper charge is a confession.
Maureen, you get a prize! "Loser" really had to shake out it's bag of Putin-farts to respond to you! Congratulation!
Biden also called the protests antisemitic, right after Netanyahu did. He’s still taking his cues from Netanyahu. Too many are willing to sacrifice the Palestinian people to genocide to prevent a second Trump
presidency. Maybe they should instead reexamine their primary election votes.
Nancy, with a Trump victory no one gets any help. Not only would it spell disaster for us, it would spell total disaster for the Palestinians. I don’t pretend to know what President Biden is doing behind the scenes but I know he has more information than I do. What we saw on October 7 is terrifying and watching women and children now is equally terrifying. I am not willing to endure a Trump Presidency without a fight. Having Trump in office is the last president you will have in your lifetime. Live with that. We should not cut off our nose to spite our face. Protest is our right, is there protest in Gaza to have Hamas agree to cease fire…no. They can’t because they have no freedom. It is just a bad situation, complex and awful for as long as I have lived. Students can protest, but they should not take away democracy from the women and children here for what would surely be a cruel awakening under Trump. I will do all I can to get other voters to save democracy for you and everyone else’s moral rage that they are surely entitled to. Respectfully
Save your lectures for yourself. No one is advocating voting for Trump. However, those of you who continually support corrupt candidates in the primaries would do well to reconsider your own actions. You’re willing to trade a flawed “democracy” here for genocide against the Palestinians. As if we don’t have more choices than two immoral candidates. But yes, our relationship e comforts are so much more important than Palestinian lives. Biden cheered Bush’s war against Iraq, in which many innocents were killed and more were dislocated. He was called Mr. MBNA while he was in the Senate because of his opposition to limiting interest rates and making it easier for people who were bankrupted by medical bills declare bankruptcy. No opposition though, to corporations declaring bankruptcy to avoid paying pensions. He opposed Medicare for All, keeping healthcare out of the reach of many. He supported the Patriot Act, he opposed school desegregation before becoming woke to embrace identity politics over civil rights. He called the protests antisemitic, right after Netanyahu did. But, as long as you get yours, it’s okay, right? Reexamine your support in the primaries for “Democratic” candidates who in years past would have been called Republicans. And you expect us to vote for genocide. Shame.
Nancy, yes, never surrender the moral high grounds, but be aware that your moral high grounds may be ground into smithereens if you fail to face reality.
They then did away with elections.
Gazan’s voted hamas into office in an open fair election.
and Trump said that he would be "dictator for one day...."
Couldn’t agree more with you
I'm glad President Biden hasn't softened his support for Israel—he would then be accused of following the political winds and changing his position accordingly. I think he understands anti-semitism deeply and sees it happening with these protests. Why else are the Jewish students being advised to leave campuses for their safety? Why have documented anti-semitic attacks in this country and around the world soared since the Hamas attack on Israel? Why aren't the protesters demanding that Hamas, a terrorist organization who broke the ceasefire and slaughtered over 1200 Israelis, offer an unconditional surrender and the return of the remaining hostages? Is their cause righteous and Israel's right to exist not righteous? What about Iran, who funds Hamas, directly attacking Israel? Demanding a cease-fire and university divestment from Israel? Strategically stupid and morally wrong.
Antisemitism has not increased but reported more widely.Western countries are way more anti-Islam,but does any body talk about it.just look at the comments on this blog/substack over the last 6 months and analyse
PS.I am not a follower of Islam or any other religion because the world would be a better place without religious strife!
And actually the protest primary votes were huge for a presidential election that usually the incumbent doesn’t get voted against and in key states but the admin is STILL not listening. They’re being so ignorant and it’s even more upsetting as a supporter esp after these protests. 💔 even knowing I need to vote for him to avoid Trump, it’s getting to a point where I don’t want to either
This reply is to Nancy - somehow it posted in the wrong place.
I'm quite sure you're misrepresenting what he said. He did not all the protests. He said there is no place for antisemitism and then added islamophobia or any such
Given this country's essentially being a doolah or midwife to Israel's birth - and with such linkages, like parenting, there's an inevitable blindness to an "offspring's" waywardness until it hits you in the face, which is happening in a more inescapable way than i'd say any prior U.S. President has faced. Studies (Kteily & Bruneau) have shown (and i've emailed them to him) that there's a propensity to dehumanizing of Palestinians by Israelis than is even more pronounced than Americans' propensity to dehumanize ISIS (an entire people more than beheading terrorists) and i think it explains how Netanyahu keeps getting re-elected cuz they have a majority who is drawn to his dogwhistles. Alas, like Trumpistas (heaven help us) drawn to Trump's.
And Biden is grieved and not willing sacrifice Palestinians or anybody to genocide but there's this bond since Israel's birth that Biden was weaned into 52 years upon entering the Senate and having Foreign Relations as his bailiwick. Despite protests from folks like me (with my emails to the White House) and Bernie championing it legislatively, calling for an end to offensive arms to Israel (and reportedly even Jill is lobbying him for the same cause), he feels between and rock and a hard place. But he's edging in the right direction, a direction Trump would never get near with a 10 ft pole. Trump is as much of a dehumanizer (and especially of Palestinians - whilst he butters up to and condones beheaders like Saudi princes) as the Israelis seem to be.
and fyi in case you're thinking i'm a Biden die-hard, i voted for Bernie - twice.
Also called cut off your nose to spite your face.
I understand your frustration, but to give up your vote is playing into their hands. Not voting? You might as well relocate in another country where you don't even get a chance to try, to meet representatives en masse or by yourself. Voting is the only way to show support for someone who will listen and explain versus someone who will and has written and said that jail is in a "dissident's future." End. of. story.
I totally agree. The demographics of the general populace of Students and Faculty that have tried to protect them - has been healed against them, in my view. We see this repeated over decades and protests are not created for incidental reasons, they are a responsible e to injustice, cruelty, harm, and in this case - GENOCIDE and Ethnic cleansing. To dismiss them, as Biden continues to do, is an immoral response, and to not inact their deep concerns is to support the horrific actions by Israeli forces in support of AIPAC.
ELECTORAL FREEDOM IS ALSO NEEDED!
Biden's also shown a serious lack of strategy by making the comments that he has about student protestors, especially when he desperately needs the youth vote to win. People have been telling Biden he is imperiling his campaign due to his hawkish foreign policy for months. Biden can only blame himself for losing the youth vote at this point. Maybe Trump will die of a heart attack or stroke before the election though, keeping him out of office.
I definitely don’t agree with funding the conflict but what would Trump have done! God forbid he gats in office.
Because the alternative presidential candidate is far worse. Including, particularly, on Palestine. Taking an action which will result in the exact opposite of what you want is not generally considered a good strategy.
But to NOT vote for Biden, who is somewhat malleable, unlike the wannabe dictator trump, is to actually vote for trump. I marched against the war in Vietnam too, and have continued to march against all of the injustices against women, minorities being treated unfairly as well as our own people of color who have and are often still being treated as second class citizens. But think of the ramifications of allowing someone who repeatedly breaks the law, intimidates witnesses and even jury members in his trial, aside from all of his other lies. Biden will listen and has NOT discounted the voices of students and other concerned Americans that Netanyahu's government is evil and practising the same genocide as was practised on them by the Natzis during WW II. And Biden has repeatedly said that accountability must come from Israel for their part in this terrible war. Think about what the death of democracy and our Republic would mean for this country> We'd be nothing but a Third World country lacking any moral compass with a sociopath at the helm....no regulations protecting people, no vision forward towards ending wars and negotiating, and every action taken would be based on "the financial bottom line", not what the people need. Please work for peace/negotiation and a Democratic government that actually passes and enforces laws that people live more comfortably instead of scrabbling to survive.
Biden flat out told the protestors "I am not changing course." That's is the opposite of malleable.
They can pick their poison! By not voting for Biden they are voting for Trump. Is this really what they want? There are consequences to every action! Be careful!
How do they know they're being ignored? Did they want to sit in on strategic military and diplomatic meetings in the Middle East? How do they not know that Biden is just as angry and frustrated as they are? When in recent times have they seen a President Biden who is without empathy and compassion? Was it on October 7th? Was it when he was trying to restrain Israeli military response by sending in our military to tell them about our mistakes? Was it when he said Israel had the right to defend itself, but that it mattered how they did it and the world was watching? Was it when he flooded Egypt with aid to put on trucks to enter Gaza? Was it when he ordered a dock built to aid in off-loading aid in northern Gaza? Was it when he ordered air drops because Israel refused to stop delaying trucks? Do you think the IS abstention on a UN Security Council vote had no affect? Do they think Israel needs bombs to kill Palestinian children? They are starving and the weakened are dying of disease. Do they not know we lost our strategic influence in the Middle East by our own response to 9/11? Israel doesn't need us. They know where to buy arms and we aren't the only game in town. Do they not know that this war is counterproductive to everything the Biden administration was trying to do in that region? He needs stable governments to get the climate agenda moving forward. Trust him. He's doing everything he can. Peaceful protests don't hurt his efforts. Chaotic protests do. Incentivizing his American political advisories by not voting or switching sides will destroy everything the protesters want to achieve. No climate agenda if he is not the next president, you can take that to the bank. No women's rights. No civil rights for anyone. For Trump, your value is your unquestioned obedience.
Biden said out loud in his official statement yesterday that he's not going to change anything about his policy. He flat out said "I'm ignoring you."
His policy is in alignment with the student objectives so no policy change is required. He's not ignoring them. They are ignoring him and what he has accomplished and the limitations he has to work under. The only way we could stop Netanyahu's government right now is to put American boots into Gaza to fight Israelis while Palestinians would be attacking the American rear.
No, it is not in alignment, because the U.S. will still be supplying offensive weaponry and money to buy offensive weaponry that will be used to further the genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza.
The United States doesn't hold all the cards. Have you ever wondered why Netanyahu isn't deferential to Biden? He is more aligned with the Republicans. He constantly speaks to the press and lets them know that he calls the shots, not Biden. We aren't the only ones who sell 2000-pound bombs, and Israel isn't without options. Let Biden manage the diplomatic effort that will give the Palestinians real hope for a real future. One where they are safe every day, not just until the next time. Read international news. Read past the top story, because the campuses and Trump are the top stories. The players are the US, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, France, Great Britain and the UAE. The two-state solution is the goal and most of the elements are in place. Divesting colleges and universities will not achieve your goals. Diplomacy will make it happen. Those people actually have conversations and are making deals. Think about who came to Israel's defense during the Iranian attack...the US, but not the US alone...Jordan and the Saudis. Do not be short-sighted. Do not kill the goose who lays the golden eggs. The monies have been identified to begin rebuilding Gaza. Don't let this moment pass because you must have it your way.
"It is not antisemitic or pro-Hamas to point out that in almost seven months Netanyahu’s extremist government has killed 34,000 Palestinians and wounded more than 77,000 – seventy percent of whom are women and children.
And to protest that or to point that out is not antisemitic. It is simply factual.
It is not antisemitic to point out that Netanyahu’s government’s bombing has completely destroyed more than 221,000 housing units in Gaza, leaving more than one million people homeless – almost half the population. No, Mr. Netanyahu it is not antisemitic to point out what you have done in terms of the destruction of housing in Gaza.
It is not antisemitic to realize that his government has annihilated Gaza’s health care system, knocking 26 hospitals out of service and killing more than 400 health care workers. At a time when 77,000 people have been wounded and desperately need medical care, Netanyahu has systematically destroyed the health care system in Gaza.
It is not antisemitic to condemn his government’s destruction of all of Gaza’s 12 universities and 56 of its schools, with hundreds more damaged, leaving 625,000 children in Gaza have no opportunity for an education. It is not antisemitic to make that point.
It is not antisemitic to note that Netanyahu’s government has obliterated Gaza’s civilian infrastructure – there is virtually no electricity in Gaza right now, virtually no clean water in Gaza right now, and sewage is seeping out onto the streets.
It is not antisemitic to make that point.
Mr. President, it is not antisemitic to agree with virtually every humanitarian organization that functions in the Gaza area in saying that his government, in violation of American law, has unreasonably blocked humanitarian aid coming into Gaza.
They have created the conditions under which hundreds of thousands of children face malnutrition and famine. It is not antisemitic to look at photographs of children who are starving to death because they have not been able to get the food that they need. It is not antisemitic to agree with American and UN officials that parts of Gaza could become famine districts in the not very distant future.
Antisemitism is a vile and disgusting form of bigotry that has done unspeakable harm to many millions of people for hundreds of years, including my own family. But it is outrageous and it is disgraceful to use that charge of antisemitism to distract us from the immoral and illegal war policies that Netanyahu’s extremist and racist government is pursuing.
Furthermore, it is really cheap politics for Netanyahu to use the charge of antisemitism to deflect attention from the criminal indictment he is facing in the Israeli courts.
Bottom line, Mr. President: it is not antisemitic to hold Netanyahu and his government for their actions. That is not antisemitic. It is precisely what we should be doing."
—Senator Bernie Sanders, 1 May 2024, from remarks made on the United States Senate floor
Yes, I caught on you were quoting Bernie. A speech for the ages, IMO.
I hadn’t read or heard the whole speech yet. Thank you for posting. Most eloquent and honest.
Now is the time for Sanders to speak about the vagaries of election politics. It is easier to make change happen as part of the majority than as the ignored minority.
Making me regret not voting for him in the primaries for 2020… Biden for sure has wins & wayyy better than Trump but in this circumstance I wish Bernie were our President. I wish I took his chances more seriously instead of listening to the doubts longtime Dems put in our minds. He could’ve had the support.
Basing the future of millions on propaganda from hamas health service.
IDF keeps accurate records of deaths. Publicly available. Why not use those figures .
IDF believes every Palestinian male capable of fighting is Hamas whether they are or not. For that matter, they may believe that every Palestinian woman capable of fighting is Hamas. Palestinian children are collateral damage. So are press and aid workers.
But it is foolish to base your conclusion on Hamas reporting, and ignoring IDF records.
Possible propaganda?
All based on hamas propaganda. They would not lie to control opinion.
I agree 100% with Senator Sanders' eloquent argument and your support of his views. However, I feel compelled to tell that you need to flag for the reader that the words you are typing are not your own by using the standard conventions , in this case - quotation marks. Arriving at the end of your comment and discovering the words were Bernie's left me feeling duped.
💯
So said, Bernie the Red.
Even if that were true (which it isn’t even close for anyone who has actually been informed in what Bernie stands for) the values are better than supporting inhumanity.
Inhumanity like rape, beheadings, burning alive, killing children and babies. As done by Hamas with promises to return and do it again?
Keeping kidnapped sex slaves, that inhumanity, now in seven months of captivity by hamas?
That inhumanity?
O lordy. I have seen a few headlines about re-build carpetbaggers. Kushner Luxury Beach Resort, or will they just use "Trump?" Will Marines get electrocuted in their showers? (Iraq flashback)
Actually, I was validating your point about profit in scorched earth for somebody with the right connections to the "military industrial complex." I never said Trump owned black rock or Vanguard. I have seen reporting of a Kushner plan to develop beach real estate in what's left of Gaza. Seems the name "Trump" really poked your beehive.
Outsiders are entering the universities and, in some cases, attacking the protesters.
Standard Operating Procedure.
It happened in Turkiye, Hong Kong, Brazil etc.
And in most cases, professional agitators propel the violence and hatred.
Okay who hires them who funds their paid performance and where do they live when not participating in their hired protestor jobs … they got names… identification … Passports ⁉️🤷🏼♀️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️I need answers😵💫
That’s why they’re pros. They cover their track very well!
The rightful object of moral outrage ought to be Hamas, not only for starting the war!, but for raping and mutilating--mutilating!!!--innocent civilians and for using its own civilian citizens as human shields. If using one's own people as human shields isn't genocide, I don't know what is.
I would venture to say that there IS outrage about Hamas and their atrocities. You can be outraged over more than one thing. But to not understand what Netanyahu has done, even him previously showing some support for Hamas since they were also not interested in a two state solution, (vs. PLO) is closing your eyes to how desperate Netanyahu is to stay in power. This situation is so deep, old, and complicated. But, the killing of so many innocents can’t be justified as a cost of war.
So well said! I venture to suggest an analogy to the international solidarity with the US after 9-11, followed by dismay at the bizarre choice of Iraq as target for revenge.
Netanyahu had a Ceasefire in place with Hamas.
They broke that ceasefire Oct 07.
They then had a ceasefire in November, which was extended. Hamas broke that ceasefire.
Israel has offered a new ceasefire.
Release all of the Hostages.
Simple.
How many civilians did the US kill in Afghanistan? Iraq? What was the ratio of civilian:military deaths?
Also, where do the numbers of Gazan casualties come from? How do we know that they are accurate? Answers: from Hamas and we don't.
I'm no fan of Bibi, but what's a reasonable alternative for Israel to prevent Hamas from perpetrating more October-7-style attacks, as they've promised to do?
Yes, wake-up world! Attacking Israel is a double standard. There have been numerous wars in the past where thousands have been murdered but no protests at colleges happened. I call that a double standard!
This time you are extremely WRONG! Deep Islamic Jew-Hatred did NOT begin on 10/7 when Hamas invaded Israel !!
Nobody reading Prof. Reich thinks so, nor did he say so.
Neither did the deep hate against Islam by Israel… 🤔 but no I think thousands of people being slaughtered on the internet for everyone to see is enough motive as it is. How is that so shocking?
Oh please. Israel has made peace with every Islamic country that wants to. They’re fighting terrorism and we’ll understand this sooner than we realise. The West is next.
This is so true it pains me to see the carnage in Gaza while looking at Israelites (government, many citizens do not support!) becoming what they once fled😢
Yes, the "elephant in the room" is, does being victims of genocide hand you a license for genocide? I had a friend, long dead, who evaded Hitler and made it to the US, but had family he visited in Israel. His feedback was that most Jews were comfortable being neighbors with Palestinians, and deplored government discrimination against them. Since when, it's gotten worse and worse. It seems a parliamentary system is no more effective against religious extremists than our gerrymandering and electoral college.
The problem is not Jewish religious extremists....Israel made several generous peace offers. The problem is Palestinian refusal to share the region to ANY extent.
I'm not up on territorial details. Is Gaza the "region" to be shared?
Mandate Palestine. But actually, Hamas wants every Jew in the world dead, so...they don't want to share anything.
Which does come full circle to: religion.
Judean Palestinians are in their home.
It frustrates me that students will protest but not vote? That’s the main thing they can do to impact change! We can NOT risk trump being elected again! That would result in the end of Democracy as we know it! Although I agree Biden is aging, he is the only option we have and students should ask for a dialogue with the president. They need to understand the complexities of international relationships and negotiations.
The threat to hold their collective breath until the face of the nation turns orange undermines any credibility the protests might have.
You said, "Israel’s current government morally bankrupt". Ours will be too if Trump gets elected.
True but when you support an immoral gov what does that make you? I’m still voting Biden but am so disappointed in him and how he’s trashing his legacy with these decisions
I understand your apparent frustration and I share it. I don't think Biden is "trashing" his legacy so much as he is putting a stain on it.
I agree 100%. The senseless slaughter of innocents is horrendous. What Hamas did was terrible, what Israel is doing is worse. I used to be a staunch supporter of Israel, but no more.
why not support Israel but not the government. the world used to look up to the U.S. but now no one can trust that we'll have a democracy. You'r blaming Israeli citizens for their minority rule government!
Because that’s how you get the whole country to be serious against the evils in their government. Too many of the people who agree with the hateful far-right sentiments have moved to Israel and become their population (too much like Florida for us).
really? then why are Israelis protesting? the right wing religious zealots in Israel are a minority, like they are in the U.S. We are under minority rule in many states along with Florida that are violating Women's human rights. So make sure you understand, Israeli's also have minority rule.
Thank you, I didn’t realize the level of minority rule in Israel. That explains why I see some protests in Israel from time to time on the news but it’s rare. I’ve been thinking for the longest time we need to find a way for the Israelis to elect a new government, but it’s unclear as to how that would happen.
It's the government, and the military, and the settlers who attack Palestinians. Other than that, Israeli citizens are fine.
then I think it's important to make that distinction. you said, "I used to be a staunch supporter of Israel, but no more."
I humbly offer that I took her to mean current official policy/government. Her clarification was on target! But your analogy to the problem with the world's view of the US is important. There's a lot of knee-jerk condemnation of cain being raised on college campuses, but nobody has used the phrase "good trouble" that I've seen yet. If the disruption is making international news, maybe American citizens are not being blamed so much for our minority government...
On a pro rata basis, the 1200 Israelis killed would be the equivalent of about 60,000 dead Americans. More than Vietnam in total. In one day. How would we react? As to the protesters, words matter. “From the river to the sea” is a Hamas phrase with clear meaning. Just like if they wrote on their signs “work sets you free”; everyone knows that one. Moral outrage is understandable, but this is a war. In WWII, We killed 300,000 with just two bombs, but it was an “acceptable cost” because of the number of soldiers that would have died if an invasion of Honshu were required. And on top of it all, the “ordinary” Gazans knew all about what Hamas was doing. Can’t build all those tunnels and shoot rockets from hospitals without general knowledge of the people. Just like all the “ordinary” Germans knew exactly what was happening in the camps. War is awful. Innocents die. There is plenty of blame to go around. But always seems like Jews take the brunt. Why no protests about Darfur, Iran, Somalia, Chad, Eritrea, Sudan, China etc. only the Jewish state. Just calling out the truth. Reich is wrong - it is antisemitism. My son went to Cal and was in a Jewish frat. There is antisemitism everywhere there. There is a parody song in which the last line is “And everybody hates the Jews “! So true over the days weeks, months, years, decade, generations, centuries and millennium.
Truth.
I haven't always agreed with the professor's views on Israel's war but this piece, I think, is right on. Slaughtering innocent children, women, and men by the tens of thousands is just plain wrong and there's no need to impute ulterior motives to the large majority of students protesting against this atrocity.
When you finally see through the Rape Gang's "slaughter " propaganda...and geno-sliming...you'll see that without victory there is no peace.
What continues to puzzle me is the contrast between Gaza and Ukraine. Why are students protesting war in Gaza and not war in Ukraine?!? Why are they expressing outrage over deaths in Gaza but not the ongoing carnage in Ukraine? Why do hearts melt with grief for children in Gaza but not for children in Ukraine? Why is it people express anger at Mr Biden for support he gives to Mr Netanyahu, even threaten to stop supporting him, while no one expresses anger at Mr Trump’s support for Mr Putin’s long and violent war against Ukraine? What’s going on?
Puzzles me too. Israel is held to a different standard. Plus there were no protests against the genocides in many African countries.
i think the actions of an extremely online younger generation can't be separated from what they're seeing/learning on social media. what's happening in gaza is a war crime perpetrated by a thug israeli government, to be sure. but so is what's happening in ukraine. so i agree - why the difference? could it be that hamas just has a really good social media game and has rallied american youth to their cause?
people claim to just be acting from morality - and i agree 100% that the israeli destruction of gaza is immoral, but there's a fervor and groupthink to this movement that feels like it's artificially pumped up by the social media machine. i mean, who benefits from these protests? not palestinian children, unfortunately. people who want to increase fractures among americans, and specifically on the left, are greatly benefitting. that's what scares me.
i welcome feedback or other perspectives.
Madness is what is going on.
Your question is easy to answer - these protests are performative anti-Westernism. Brown people,/white aggressor provides a clear moral formula, with UK vs RU they cannot use it to beat the West with.
I know people are expressing outrage over the ongoing carnage in Ukraine. I think what has happened is that it isn't getting as much news coverage - both the war and the outrage - because it has been going on for so long.
Biden should make it clear that the tiny state of Israel will be on their own without US aid of any kind unless they stop killing Palestinian civilians immediately and allow aid to the people in Gaza. The outrageous slaughter must stop.
That's what I would do too.
Earlier today, I was thinking, if I went out on a street corner with a sign, it might say "Defund Israel." I suppose I would get mobbed by people accusing me of hating Jews, which would be an epic irony. I grew up in a Bircher house with at least two copies of "The Protocols..." on display. Never "bought" it, somehow. Eventually looked up a copy of "Warrant for Genocide" by Cohn, Oxford. But my sign might say: "Defund Israel."
It's not an outrageous slaughter. It's called war. Israel will finish Hamas. Then there will be peace, as there was on Oct 6th.
Definition of war, "armed conflict between nations." Definition of slaughter, "kill people in cruel or violent way, typically in large numbers."
I don’t agree with you this time, Professor Reich. I don’t think the argument is constructive about whether anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism because the definition of Zionism changes from person to person; I happen to believe that Zionism is the belief that we Jews were and are entitled to return to our homeland in what we now call Israel. (To me, the Palestinians are also entitled to live in their homeland, and a two-state solution is the only just solution.) Since the return to Zion has been a part of Jewish liturgy since the diaspora began, being opposed to the return to Israel means opposing a tenet of the Jewish religion. That’s not anti-Semitism, but it IS anti-Judaism. Furthermore, numerous people in the US cheered the Hamas attack right after it happened, and before Israel invaded Gaza. Some even said that the dead Israelis deserved their fate because Jews are supposedly European colonizers who did not belong in ANY of the land. Frankly, I don’t care whether that is anti-Semitism or not, because it is certainly hostile to all Jews who believe in the centuries-old idea of the return home.
As for the appalling loss of life among Palestinians, Netanyahu should have waited to invade until the IDF had a plan to protect the civilians. In my opinion, he is an evil man who doesn’t care about his own people, let alone someone else’s. (Bibi is a lot like Trump, except that Bibi is smarter than Trump and speaks better English). HOWEVER, Hamas is equally responsible for the carnage because a government, especially knowing that it plans to provoke a war, needs to provide civil defense plans. The tunnels would make perfect air raid shelters but the civilians had no access to them. Instead, they were relegated to places where weapons were stored — places such as schools and hospitals, that, under the Geneva Conventions, become legitimate targets only if they are used for military purposes, which they were. Hamas deliberately set up its countrymen to be mowed down.
There is plenty of blame to go around. I believe that Biden is on the right track — have the Palestinian Authority run Gaza, and hope that Israel gets Likud out of power. The irony of all of this is that Israeli liberals were protesting every weekend against Netanyahu before October 7th. Hamas probably felt that it HAD to act, or Bibi would be gone, and with it, Hamas’s best opportunity to provoke a war. Likud played right into their hands.
O dear, here we go again. Please what is source: "numerous people in the US cheered the Hamas attack right after it happened." I am having deja vu of Trump claiming to have seen celebrations in New Jersey of destruction of the WTC 9/11.
Here is one source: The Times of Israel. There was a demonstration in NYC. https://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinians-celebrate-hamas-attack-as-israel-supporters-rally-in-new-york/
I remember this as well. I'd have to go searching for links but in Canada the anti-Israeli sentiment was (and is) terrifying to watch.
Thanks! I see the date on that reporting. So sad. It sort of hammers home the hopelessness of the situation, in which killing is totally on the menu of options, both sides.
What makes things even worse is that Israel’s right-wing crazies are taking advantage of the war to attack Palestinians in the West Bank, knowing that no one will stop them. And I fear that Netanyahu really will go into Rafah, which will lead not only to massive bloodshed, but may help Trump get elected because younger progressives will stay home. Of course, Bibi WANTS Trump elected. If all this happens, there will be no Palestinian state, Israel will henceforth be a total pariah, and the US will lose its democracy. Next to all this, some generally peaceful demonstrations that ruin graduation at a bunch of universities seem minor.
It was on the news shortly after the attack, before the IDF went into Gaza. I’ll attempt to verify that it was indeed among Americans.
You really nailed it, Audrey. I've said before that Bibi is a more competent version of Trump. Hadn't considered before that Bibi speaks better English, but, of course, he does.
What started the protests and what continues to be the cause is the slaughter of innocents in Gaza. What devolves from there in a small percentage is lawlessness and antisemitism. There are agitators and outside influencers as well.
Life trolls poised to amplify and heighten human misery and suffering. Sad. Such like are ever in our midsts.
Won't get fooled, again? Apparently, we will and at more or less regular intervals.