I also agree on this, with the addition of strict enforcement of anti-harassment laws to protect poll workers, etc. Another essential is campaign finance reform. Together, they would go a long way towards protecting Democracy.
Daniel, I hope that "don't bother voting, your vote won't count anyway" is not the message that is broadcast. An active electorate that values our Constitutional government is necessary for this nation to continue in freedom.
I agree with U Daniel. The fascists won’t say those words out loud bec they are such pussies but the message is still going to transmit to voters! I also agree with Ruth that our entire democratic election process needs rehabilitation by first overturning Citizens United & then dismantling the Electoral College. Every person’s vote only counts fairly when the winner is determined by a majority of the popular vote. I also believe the campaign election season needs to be much shorter & campaign contributions should be somehow standardized with limits to amounts allowed by PACs or other groups to be contributed. We already have limitations on individual’s contributions that maybe should be increased & there needs to be mandatory debates in the last month of campaigning between Pres & VP candidates with no advance notice of questions being asked! Gerrymandering also needs to be addressed. Our government could spend years arguing over how to improve & perfect our election system! To date it seems to me politicians have instead looked for ways to game the system to one’s own advantage! I’ve read articles that state our Senatorial numbers should be equal to the number of people they represent instead of automatically every state getting only 2 per state! Too much power goes to smaller sparsely populated states with our current system & we r ending up with a tied or nearly evenly split number of Ds & Rs! If we ever accept DC & Puerto Rico as states, that issue would be more pronounced. Maybe 1 Senator per million people or per 5 million people would be more fair. It could be voted on. Our dysfunctional Senate needs a big overhaul along with the entire election process. Who would take on such a huge job, a separate special committee I’m guessing ! It could be a real hot potato issue.
Hard to know, but it seems that if anyone specifically decides not to vote because they've bought into the notion that the system is faulty or rigged, and they believe the last presidential one was stolen, then... fewer red votes... And in the end, it also seems that if you don't vote, you're hardly in a position to claim that the election you chose to ignore was fraudulent, etc..
Everyone’s VOTE matters. I was so concerned about Trump being elected in 2016 that I began doing light research. What I found out is that 30-40 yrs. ago the republican party created a scheme to take over our govt. and drastically change it into a libertarian form of govt., including writing a new Constitution to reflect libertarian ‘values.’ What has happened over the years is, libertarian values have morphed into authoritarian/fascist values that no one in their right mind would want.
In order to implement their scheme the gop had to have more VOTERS to elect more republicans. One of the first things they did to get more republican voters was to appeal to groups that had never been able to get political traction because there weren’t enough of them & because their beliefs were outside the mainstream. I’m mostly referring to evangelicals and white supremacists. Republicans brought those VOTERS into their “tent” because they needed their votes. In return for their VOTES, the gop agreed to help them get what they wanted. I don’t know exactly what they were promised, but if you’ve paid any attention to politics in the last 30 yrs. you’ve noticed the rise of evangelicals by the prominence of the ‘right to life’ movement and you’ve noticed the growing white supremacist movement.
Both groups couldn’t get traction in American politics not just because there weren’t enough of them to make a difference, but also because what each group wants is to drastically curb our individual rights to live our lives without govt. interference. In addition to ‘right to life,’ evangelicals want a national Christian religion in direct opposition to the 1st amendment of our Constitution.
From what I can gather, white supremacists want to exclude people with brown or black skin from mainstream society, making them a permanent ‘underclass’ of people without the same rights and privileges as people with white skin. That kind of society is in direct opposition to our laws and also to the premise that all people have the same inalienable rights under our Constitution. But, my point is, if VOTES weren’t important we wouldn’t be grappling right now with what Donald Trump has done to our country, because I doubt the republican party would’ve made him their presidential candidate in 2016.
If VOTES don’t matter we wouldn’t be seeing gerrymandered maps for the purpose of manipulating the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favor one party or class.
Republicans also wouldn’t be trying to remove our right to VOTE. The fact is, if we aren’t very careful going forward we will lose our right to vote. Our VOTES are the only thing that can save us.
"It is also the most important qualification for public office." Is it even a qualification? E.g., the only qualification for president is to be 35 years old, a natural born citizen of the US, and a resident for the past 14(?) years. I think most elected offices have similar qualifications, except for being a naturalized citizen. So, indeed, there should be legal requirements to be on the ballot.
A demonstrable familiarity with the workings of the government and the responsibilities of the office (whichever one you're running for) would also be a good qualification to have, and each prospective candidate should have to sign an oath to uphold those laws when they apply to be a candidate.
It's quite clear that large numbers of candidates running for Congress, State Houses, Governorships, and even the Presidency, have zero clue what the US Constitution actually says. Their ignorance of the laws of their own states is equally apparent.
You are right, Beth. The men who wrote the Constitution were well meaning men, of (for the times) good character. Not in their wildest imagination, could they foresee the likes of donald j trump being on the ballot, let alone being elected. They assumed too much. We need to update the Constitution, to make ourselves clear on what we expect of all elected offices. Unfortunately, I read, recently, that some retrumplicans are also calling for an updated Constitution, but not with the safety I have in mind. They want to enshrine, white supremacy. bigotry, and religion.
About changing the Constitution: There is a great risk in doing it, which is why we so seldom do it. Buried in the Constitution are two ways to amend it. The most dangerous way allows each state exactly one vote to accept or reject a proposed amendment. The ultra conservative multibillionaire Koch dynasty has been working for decades on getting enough votes to set this in motion and convene a constitutional convention. The last time I looked the Kochs were only a few states short of success. (This is from memory, haven't looked at for a while.)
Thank you, Bob. I am aware of the risk. If, it could be managed, such that a limited number of persons, with intimate knowledge of both the Constitution, the law in general, Constitutional Law, in particular, full knowledge of the Supreme Court findings (before the current illegitimate Supreme Court. With absolutely no religious bent whatsoever. Also with full understanding, they are to revise, not throw out the current Constitution, it could work
Maureen you are right about candidates signing agreements to uphold proven fair elections. How to get state legislatures to pass that into law will be hard since so many of the state legislators don't want such a law. Cheating is fair game to a lot of them and holding them to honesty won't work for them.
I’m thinking that this type of agreement would be necessary to be put into the Congressional voting rights Bill because the red states would never do this on their own.
Well said. But a generation ago, this wouldn't have been necessary or even thinkable. Having to legislate morality is a sign of a downward trend in our society's civility. We must address the root causes: social media-megaphoned lies, inequality and a growing autocracy, electoral college, the filibuster, gerrymandering, and dark money in politics.
The signs should be obvious to anybody who regularly watches the evening news. What seems to be missing is the ability to connect the dots and recognize where these trends are taking us. It's easy to assemble a counter-conspiracy hypothesis centered on big business and social conservatives. In addition, I think that "moral equivalency" in media is fueling this conflagration. There is a true "right" and "wrong" and we all need the training to discern the difference.
You only need to look at who owns the media. It’s the large corporations who own and control what we see. They promote the news they want seen and avoid posting what they don’t. Yes we see some criticism, but very little. “ Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will.” Joseph Goebbels
'Should have to sign,' yes---but there is no such requirement now. And the issue isn't quite as clean cut as it appears. This would be something to address in Congressional legislation on voting rights and process in the next Congress, presuming the Democrats control both houses.
Elections do get rigged: that is a fact, and has occurred with some frequency in American history alone, though far less in recent generations. National law and the Supreme Court have historically steered clear of putting in place clear, clean, election dispute resolution processes, precisely so that both major parties could at times fuzz a close vote enough to claim a win. We are in this sorry mess exactly because latent potentials for corrupt partisanship have been left embedded in the system, and, again, both major parties have a share of blame in that. New voting security requirements should mandate a dispute resolution process for ALL elections, with procedures for recount, certification, and contesting the outcome in a restricted and streamlined process in court if and as necessary. At _that_ juncture, the law on voting security could and must spell out that any candidate who fails to use the mandated process is automatically disqualified from the office in question. And that allegations of fraud without _specific evidence_ are actionable civilly and criminally by established authorities and other interested parties to the dispute. Anyone with a concern that an election was in fact invalid must and should have their day in court, but they'd better have a smoking gun of evidence. Like, say, a stolen vote tabulation machine.
It is a testament to how low our national media has sunk that it is not a demonstrable line of reporting that the only party to actually try to rig portions of the 2020 vote has been _the Republican Party_, specifically it's MAGAt wing, who have less than no respect for the actual rights of anyone else in our society, for health, safety, due process, fair elections, or clean government . . . because the MAGAts, by their stated words and deeds, don't believe in any of those things for anyone else but themselves.
I may be barking up the wrong tree, however IMHO it's already Law, via the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Articles 2 & 8
Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 8
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
I agree. Parties need to vet the mental and moral capacity of their candidates before they are allowed to run. More fool the Republican Party for inflicting sick Trump on the country- but it could just have easily been a Democratic candidate.
I should have made it clearer that I was not ruling out the rights to demand a recount or launch a lawsuit, but there should be some way of keeping them off the ballot if they declare they won't accept the results of an election unless they win.
Unfortunately, going to court didn't do Gore much good. Obviously major judicial reform is also necessary.
Well, I hope it's clearer now, but you bring up a valid problem--how to keep Trump and Trump-lites from refusing to accept the results of elections just because they lose without curtailing candidates' rights to request recounts if results are close and/or investigations. and recounts if there is real evidence of electoral fraud.
Many Republicans who claim that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump won their own seats down ballot. Why were their elections not stolen as well? No one asks that.
Refusal to accept the results ahead of time should disqualify someone from running for a position. If you’re not going to play by the rules, you can’t be in the game, period.
Suzanne, you are right about rarely questioning the legitimacy of the down ballot votes if the top is challenged. I have noticed Republicans don't care about logic, they will claim some nonsense about voting machines and the way things were counted. They can't just stand up like an adult and say "OK, I was wrong! The election was extremely fair even if I didn't get the results I wanted." I agree that if a candidate can't accept the results of a fair election, they cannot serve because one would always wonder about his/her integrity (a value missing in many Republicans these days, alas).
Have you even looked into the possibility that what they are saying is correct? You sit there all smug throwing insults but do absolutely no research. Have you watched 2000 mules? Your cognitive dissonance is real for sure!
Actually, what they’re doing is building a mobius strip: it isn’t valid unless I win. But what happens if you win and other party members lose? Do you question the results and throw their victories into doubt? It’s pretzel logic. And BTW, on what grounds is it valid to claim that as long as the vote doesn’t go one’s way it has to be rigged? Because you (the candidate) can’t imagine anyone not voting for you? Yeesh.
Their is no reason to fix a primary. The trouble comes when you run against the democrat in a state that mails out ballots Willy nillyand doesn’t keep the signatures and proof of ID.
I know that Colorado has been doing mail in ballots as well as several other states, but they are not cleaning up their rolls that’s what I meant by Willy nilly.. There is proof from video cameras that ballot harvesting took place.
We have mail in voting in Texas, but we are aware of how cheating occurs with mail in as well as early voting so we put the word out to vote on Election Day ONLY which makes it harder to cheat.
When it is debunked from a reliable source, I will pay attention. I would not trust one thing the main stream media has to say. You can go from one broadcast to another and what they say is almost exactly the same script. So, are you an expert on Colorado elections? Why would I listen to sources who have been wrong so often with hardly a whisper of retraction. How often did they report the fact that the entire Russian dossier against Trump was a complete lie bought and paid for by the Clinton machine and the DNC. Which all came out in Sussman’s trial. Spying on your opponent is definitely facism.
The Democrats really shot themselves in the foot with Hispanics, black men and evangelicals when they revised their platform to remove God and denigrate families. a group who does not wish to honor God’s principles. Is likely to find truth to be an inconvenient problem.
If the elections were fair, why were poll watchers forbidden to watch counts in Pennsylvania...remember pizza boxes taped over windows in the counting room. Just One of multiple examples.
Give us a source for your accusations. I'm in PA. I don't remember this. I do remember the MAGAts banging on windows, doors, screaming in hallways, threatening violence. You say pizza boxes over windows in PA is just one of a multitude of examples. Provide sources.
Oops, Michigan. Pennsylvania changed their rules for the final counts. I wish that we would do away with the machines and have paper ballots. How can France have paper ballots and complete their count in one evening and we have machines and mail in, plus early voting and it takes weeks in some cases.
Show me some blue states where the republicans get more votes statewide but the state legislatures are totally dominated by the democrats. I can show you states where the democrats get more votes statewide but the republican dominate the state legislature. You are starting with a false equivalence.
Will, I won't do all your legwork for you. Check out voting in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. They all voted for Biden and have democratic governors but have solidly right wing state legislatures.
I find it funny and disingenuous when you demand proof from me but won’t supply the same...”Do your own legwork” if I had said that you would immediately negate everything I’m telling you as lies and propaganda. This is part of the problem. The TRUTH has no problem shining brightly and proving itself. If what you are saying is true, you should have no problem showing the proof in order to sway me to your argument. I have absolutely no issues with showing proof and providing links for the things I’m saying. Double-standard much?
What happens when two sides strongly disagree and refuse to accept any responsibility for the issues the other side is angry about?
- Republicans claim that Blue States have been gerrymandered for years. Are they right? (A truth)
- Republicans claim that the main stream media had blocked out their message for years (A BS argument but one they truly believe)
- Republicans claim the entertainment business has largely ignored the identity of conservatives in TV and Films while promoting life styles they oppose.
Republicans think that the combination of these things has in essence been the LEFT Cheating in elections.
Believe them or not, that is not my point. It is what they think and unless you can persuade them otherwise they feel justified in their own party fighting back, even if we think it is cheating.
"Rubbish" does not solve the problem, it just makes it worse
MD ; It is tempting to couch this discussion in terms of 'equivalences' ; like a math equation. The problem is that MAGA Republicans are thumbing their noses at the rule of law, and supporting an insurrectionist liar, who refuses to accept his lost bid for the presidency in the last election. He gins up threats of violence if he is forced to face justice for his crimes. His minion governors use human beings as cannon fodder; abducting them with lies and Dumping them on their opponents for the crime of caring about them. I could go on..but I think you are here to obfuscate. I have better things to do than argue with a person who has an agenda and has apparently made up his mind.
Have you actually talked to those voters because I've tried to and unless you are willing to accept their position 100%, you are talking to the wall. Have you watched some of these focus groups? The right wingers aren't open to any reasoning. They are in a cult. How do you deal with a cult? To them, their leader is always right.
Go talk to some of these Christian Nationalists and see how much compromise you see. They worship Trump, the least Christian man we've seen.
You are giving easy words but go and actually try it.
All we can do in this life is seek to falsify our best theory, according to Karl Popper. Many theories have been falsified, but Republicans continue to believe them e.g. the trickle down theory of economics, read "After the Music Stopped" or "The Rise & Fall of Neoliberal Capitalism". Conservative ideologues, in their HUBRIS, refuse to be open & humble, intellectual virtues. Democrats are pragmatists, & trust in empirical evidence. They believe that in a more just & equal economy, ALL Americans can better flourish. This has been proven true by Thomas Piketty in "The Brief History of Equality". Yet, today I saw another poll that says Republicans are more trusted on economic issues by the majority of American voters. Are the majority of Americans not paying attention?
I see a pattern where the Republicans get elected and suck everything they can out of the economy, then let the Democrats get elected so they can work their butts off putting it all back together so they can rape it again next administration. It happens over and over. Like destroy the place having a party and let the hired help clean it up.
Republicans have become a cult and cult members only accept what the leader tells them. There are plenty of republican congressmen who don't like trump but they are terrified of defying him because of what the cult will do to them. We aren't dealing with reasonable people.
Michael D., just because a group believes something does not mean they are right or that they need to be coddled because they didn't get everything they want through the media. They have gotten a lot. The media really did coddle Trump for decades. If they need conservative TV and film, there is plenty of it all over the place. The "Law and Order" type shows are very conservative for the most part. The truth is, most people don't want to see what they have seen forever, particularly young people. They want new and interesting and that is what TV, film, and other media have tried to provide, but the conservatives supposedly hate it and don't even watch. They also want books they have never read banned because it helps them feel important. I think Republicans in general are unhappy they didn't get everything they thought they were entitled to and want to make everyone else feel as miserable as they have decided to be. It is hard to reach a whole group of people who hates everyone who might be seen as having more than they have. They vote for candidates who seem to have contempt for them because they do so little to help, but keep getting reelected anyway while they blame Democrats and others for their woes. Reality just isn't part of their lives which makes them fodder for the current Republicans who seem to value cheating, lying, deception, and lack of integrity more than anything else. How sad for all of us.
I totally agree that because a group believes something that does not mean they are right or need to be coddled.
I remember back in 2003 during the run up to the Iraq War most of us believed that Iraq had WMD's. It turns out that the President and leaders on both parties as well as the media were lying to us. The media in particular failed in their duty to more unbiasedly validate what the administration was saying. They failed. (Read Chomskys book on 9-11)
Trumps supporters believe lies they were told by the media they consume. No different than i believed lies about WMD's because the NYT and CNN told me it was true as did leaders from my own party.
Americans can and frequently are duped by the media they watch.
It is easy to generalize about people that are being duped by the media they watch.
Hating them does not make things better. Finding common ground does make things better.
I was misinformed during the Iraq war. I am glad the nation that was not misinformed did not turn on my and try to minimize me.
Nor should you be blamed for something you didn’t do...I agree 100%! I bet Trump felt the same way about the Russia situation when it’s been proven it was HRC and the DNC all along. Really sucks when people blatantly lie about you just to make themselves look better, huh?
That’s the way any game is played. When you win, great for you. When you loose, you loose. Better luck next time. You don’t blame the scoreboard for cheating to make you lose. You don’t blame the press for publishing the results of the game showing that you lost. Put in some more practice and try again. Only little babies because of their immaturity blame someone else for a loss.
Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.
But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together, this vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.
(APPLAUSE)
I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.
We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.
Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don’t just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.
(APPLAUSE)
Now — and let me add, our constitutional democracy demands our participation, not just every four years but all the time. So let’s do all we can to keep advancing the causes and values we all hold dear; making our economy work for everyone not just those at the top, protecting our country and protecting our planet and breaking down all the barriers that hold any American back from achieving their dreams.
CLINTON: We’ve spent a year and a half bringing together millions of people from every corner of our country to say with one voice that we believe that the American dream is big enough for everyone — for people of all races and religions, for men and women, for immigrants, for LGBT people, and people with disabilities. For everyone.
(APPLAUSE)
So now, our responsibility as citizens is to keep doing our part to build that better, stronger, fairer America we seek. And I know you will.
I am so grateful to stand with all of you. I want to thank Tim Kaine and Anne Holton for being our partners on this journey.
(APPLAUSE)
It has been a joy getting to know them better, and it gives me great hope and comfort to know that Tim will remain on the front lines of our democracy representing Virginia in the Senate.
(APPLAUSE)
To Barack and Michelle Obama, our country owes you an enormous debt of gratitude.
(APPLAUSE)
We — we thank you for your graceful, determined leadership that has meant so much to so many Americans and people across the world.
And to Bill and Chelsea, Mark, Charlotte, Aidan, our brothers and our entire family, my love for you means more than I can ever express. You crisscrossed this country on our behalf and lifted me up when I needed it most — even four-month-old Aidan who traveled with his mom.
I will always be grateful to the creative, talented, dedicated men and women at our headquarters in Brooklyn and across our country.
(APPLAUSE)
You poured your hearts into this campaign. For some of you who are veterans, it was a campaign after you had done other campaigns. Some of you, it was your first campaign. I want each of you to know that you were the best campaign anybody could have ever expected or wanted.
(APPLAUSE)
And to the millions of volunteers, community leaders, activists and union organizers who knocked on doors, talked to neighbors, posted on Facebook, even in secret, private Facebook sites…
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
… I want everybody coming out from behind that and make sure your voices are heard going forward.
(APPLAUSE)
To everyone who sent in contributions as small at $5 and kept us going, thank you. Thank you from all of us.
And to the young people in particular, I hope you will hear this. I have, as Tim said, spent my entire adult life fighting for what I believe in. I’ve had successes and I’ve had setbacks. Sometimes, really painful ones. Many of you are at the beginning of your professional public and political careers. You will have successes and setbacks, too.
This loss hurts, but please never stop believing that fighting for what’s right is worth it.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: It is — it is worth it.
(APPLAUSE)
And so we need — we need you to keep up these fights now and for the rest of your lives.
And to all the women, and especially the young women, who put their faith in this campaign and in me, I want you to know that nothing has made me prouder than to be your champion.
(APPLAUSE)
Now, I — I know — I know we have still not shattered that highest and hardest glass ceiling, but some day someone will and hopefully sooner than we might think right now.
(APPLAUSE)
And — and to all the little girls who are watching this, never doubt that you are valuable and powerful and deserving of every chance and opportunity in the world to pursue and achieve your own dreams.
Finally…
(APPLAUSE)
Finally, I am so grateful for our country and for all it has given to me. I count my blessings every single day that I am an American. And I still believe as deeply as I ever have that if we stand together and work together with respect for our differences, strength in our convictions and love for this nation, our best days are still ahead of us.
(APPLAUSE)
Because, you know — you know, I believe we are stronger together and we will go forward together. And you should never, ever regret fighting for that. You know, scripture tells us, “Let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due season, we shall reap if we do not lose heart.”
So my friends, let us have faith in each other, let us not grow weary, let us not lose heart, for there are more seasons to come. And there is more work to do.
I am incredibly honored and grateful to have had this chance to represent all of you in this consequential election.
May God bless you and may God bless the United States of America.
Twice in this speech she mislabeled our form of government. The United States of America is a Constitutional Republic. If you go back to the day we were founded by the forefathers all the proof is there. We are not a Democracy. If you understand the differences in these forms of government it really helps to clear things up.
.You are correct, Will. This is a Constitutional Republic. However, the terms have been so misused for at least 300 years, and Civics is not taught in schools, so many people don't know that in a Democracy, every citizen (originally male citizen) votes directly in a forum, on any proposed law. Like Communism this only works in very small societies. In Democracies a few thousand, in Communistic, less than one hundred. What we have today is a Constitutional, Representative, Republic, which only works well, IF every Citizen (born or naturalized) stays informed and votes in every election. The more people we have the mentally lazier some get. It becomes too much of a task to inform oneself, and even more tiresome to vote. Education might help, but only if it was standard throughout the country. How to instill a sense of duty, honor, and loyalty to one's governing body is even more difficult. (Just look at Bezos, Musk, and Trump, who are loyal and honorable ONLY to themselves)
1a(1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
(2) : a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
b(1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law
(2) : a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
c : a usually specified republican government of a political unit
the French Fourth Republic
2 : a body of persons freely engaged in a specified activity
the republic of letters
3 : a constituent political and territorial unit of the former nations of Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union, or Yugoslavia
Not accepting the results of a legitimate election to the “worst candidate ever” (Trump’s reference to Biden), initiating a coup and continually state that the election was rigged stolen from you, even though every sane person in your universe has repeatedly and explicitly renounced that BS and losing over 50 Court cases attempting to prove it… MATTERS!
Democratic Republic and Democracy have been used interchangeably for numerous years in the US, albeit not necessarily entirely accurate. But denigrating Hillary (whom I personally cannot stand) for utilizing a term that has been accepted for many decades is absolutely absurd.
As Ronald Regan use to say, "Now there you go again." You are making allegations that you cannot prove. Has Abrams and Clinten currently going on Television claiming that their election was rigged or stolen as Trump continues to say about his election? She may not have conceded her loss, but Trump and his followers like parrots, continue to repeat what their owner says, yet they have not been able to prove any of Trump's allegations. Some of Trumps followers were even emboldened to take action that could be called traitorous.
2000 miles proves without the shadow of a doubt that the election was stolen. Trump owns no one in this MAGA movement. He only puts out info and leaves it up to the American people to do research and see for themselves. Some of us are just quicker on the uptake then others.
I am not saying that Republicans rig elections. Numerous courts are ruled that Republicans rig elections. GOP states have been found guilty of illegal gerrymandering far more than Dem states.
And Yes, the creep Abrams is running against is literally the guy in Georgia that is trying to rig the election.
WASHINGTON — Since January, judges in Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Ohio have found that Republican legislators illegally drew those states’ congressional maps along racial or partisan lines, or that a trial very likely would conclude that they did."
Obviously a rhetorical question - but we could, nonetheless, make light of the situation, e.g.: why can't we just make them sign a loyalty oath? Grover Norquist would have them do it...
Rishi, maybe we could make it a big deal, a public signing ceremony that is covered by the local media. Anyone who does not sign should be disqualified from running or just ignored by the media.
Mike: Government can constitutionally require loyalty oaths of public employees, but the wording of the oath is all-important. To survive constitutional muster, the oath must specifically define and punish behavior that constitutes a clear and present danger to a substantial government interest.
It may not infringe on First or Fourteenth Amendment rights.
Employment may not be conditioned on an oath that one has not engaged in, or will not engage in, protected speech activities.
Employment may not be conditioned on an oath denying past or abjuring future associational activities protected by the Constitution.
An oath must not be so vague that persons of ordinary intelligence must guess at its meaning.
I understand the process. My question is more like “why make the effort?
All you will do is give the right more fodder to take down democracy and the chances of success without yrs of organizing a coalition give them a new issue while we get nothing
I understand the intent. Strategically, it seems there are other things we should invest our energy on to get Americans to vote Democratic
Only kidding - of course... but no strategy is without risks: true, there is some irony given that "liberal" values suggest not demanding public pledges of loyalty... but the idea of rejecting not-really-close election results - which no international organization would be willing to declare contestable - does seem *so* outside the norm that even the risk of a bully-pulpit being afforded is probably worth taking (as it further marginalizes what amounts to anarchy - or worse).
PS: Elected officials should feel a duty to the office; there should not need to be any threat to person/livelihood (let alone an oath) for someone to do their job! (Why campaign for office otherwise?)
I seem to remember when Hillary lost people were blocking traffic on freeways and major streets in protest. We all know if the midterm elections are won by Republicans, the Democrats will, break store windows tear up businesses, loot and attack people and all the other stuff they do when they don’t like something.
I remember a dignified Secretary of State Hillary Clinton going before the news media and making a lovely, and it had to be difficult, concession speech congratulating Ex Pres DJT on his win and wishing him well.
I have to say they're not little babies. It's all about the money. They have to be above the human world. Trump proves it. When global climate change really kicks in who's going to survive? The rich.
Not all about the money. Many of them rise to the call to their collective racist subconscious.
Check out Youngstown, Friday night. Seig Heil!
"
"Donald Trump has gone full QAnon. As he spoke during a rally for Ohio Republican candidates on Saturday, a soundtrack associated with the conspiracy theory played. That elicited one-armed salutes — another QAnon symbol — from many attendees.
The display bore an uncanny resemblance to the infamous Nazi salute. The delusional incitement and zombie-like response should put to rest the notion that President Biden (or anyone) should be “reaching out” to these people. They are unreachable, and pretending otherwise misleads voters."
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. I’m not buying into the newest conspiracy on the left.
The media should be talking about unions organizing and Americas declining life expectancy rate. About Monopolies and about what it will really take to bring manufacturing back to this country.
Investigate Trump? Sure, he’s probably a crook. But the amount of media attention is intentional to keep is distracted
Michael D Your ignorance precedes you! But you clarify that ignorance in your comments. Apparently you live with your head deeply buried in the sand. Did you watch ANY J6 hearings?
Do you hear TFG speak? He’s a deranged lunatic and has been called out my numerous psychiatrists as exhibiting narcissistic snd delusional behavior. But to you it’s a conspiracy on the Left. 😂😂 Good try but you’re not fooling anyone here!
I am not denying that he is a deranged lunatic. I am sure he is. I think his supporters would agree with that analysis of him.
And no i did not watch any of the J6 hearings.
I am not defending him. He almost certainly has broken the law and should be punished.
That is not my point.
My point is that the media attention to this is an intentional distraction for the public to insure that the media is not reporting on issues that matter to the vast majority of Americans like health care, higher wages, better jobs and less control by monopolies over how we live our lives or what we do for income.
The media is all but ignoring these more important issues and the result is that their advertisers needs are being met because their lobbyists can tell law makers how to vote and voters will not punish them.
On top of that you want to put a guy in jail who has 30% approvel from the American people. Good luck with that. Is it worth it? Maybe maybe not. I don't care. I care more about the media inspiring Americans to vote in primary elections for law makers that are going to make our lives better. These hearings don't make my life our yours as good as higher wages, better health care and less control of our lives by Corporate America
I can't say I "liked" this, but someone called it to my attention yesterday, and, combined with Ken Burns film on Sunday night, scared me deeply. The Daily Kos had a video with Trump speaking to this awful, sentimental music, and I must say his gestures mirrored the Fuhrer's.
Daniel, your assessment of the Q people is so right. It is scary and I believe you are also right that they cannot be reached. They are so desperate to belong to something, they will accept anything because it makes them feel special even if it is crazy and is making them crazy. Donald Trump is facing dementia and his speeches are more and more disjointed and pathetic. He has been moving into it for years, but grabbing onto Q has given him something his wandering brain can focus his speeches on. "Lock her up" now only has marginal impact, so his handlers knew he needed a new theme. He now has it, and he was preaching to the choir last Saturday. They loved it because their savior is now on board with them.
I was horrified to learn, (but not surprised) that an Evangelical preacher has written a book claiming that Trump is the Messiah, the Second Coming of Jesus! He states that the founding fathers came to the US together as pilgrims and landed in New York where they consecrated this country as a Christian nation on the site the Twin Towers were later built. The ignorance and insanity of this stuff is so mind boggling I'm just flabbergasted. Are people really this stupid? Do they believe this nonsense? Is ANY lie accepted as the truth, no matter how outrageous? Can rationality compete with insanity?
There’s a lot of mental illness in this country. It’s shocking. The more I learn about history the more shocked I am. But that doesn’t mean they’ll prevail. We have tools too.
Most MAGA supporters DO NOT believe that Trump is a “messiah”. I certainly don’t not do any of the people I surround myself with. We are Patriotic Americans. Most of us veterans. We want the best for our country and don’t want our tax dollars laundered all over the world all Willy nilly when there are veterans sleeping on the streets and committing suicide at a rate of 22 per day because the government used them up and threw them away. Biden is as demented as they get and none of us approve of his criminal ways. HRC is a murderer and as evil as it gets. Trump is the lesser of the evils in my mind and he understands how to run a business which is what this country is since it’s incorporation in 1871 thanks to the evil disgusting administration in power at the time...look it up, it’s all there.
Will, I am very glad that you do not think Trump is God, and accept you are right that most others don't. But he does allow the free brochures stating he is "The Christ" to be handed out at his rallies, has said he is "The King of Israel," and "The Chosen One." Can you still think he is rational, honest? As to how we treat vets: I knew a very fine young man who committed suicide while in the army, and I know homeless vets and have volunteered at vet's organizations. I couldn't agree with you more that our vets are treated horribly and deserve so much more. As to the rest of your allegations, I can't agree. I an a retired tech writer and professional researcher, and have long done my own research on political issues and conspiracy theories. You don't have to rely on any news media. You can find the truth for yourself online, and I hope you will. Regarding Trump's business acumen, I hope you take note of the indictment in New York today. Trump is a crook, he has always been a crook. Through family connections who knew Trumps business dealings in New York through their profession, I have heard about his mob associations, laundering money for Russians, hiring illegal aliens, causing honest small businessmen to go bankrupt when he refused to pay, for the last 40 years. Please do independent research online. The truth is there: Trump is a failed buisnessman, crook, and mentally ill. Support any other conservative before you give him your vote
There is alway a doomsday prophecy looming. Has been since the 70’s oil crisis. Every ten years there’s some new big time issue that’s gonna destroy the world. Please explain if there’s such a big climate crisis that you’re boy Al Gore is so worried about, why does he run all over the place in his private jet which is a huge carbon footprint? He spent $180,000 in fuel for that thing in a couple of months. Why does Greta Doomsburg fly all over the world first class if she really cares about the environment? The answer to a crisis if you want to help is to start with yourself and lead by example. Perhaps they should start doing that if they want the rest of us to believe their BS!
Oh Col Barb, you hit that nail squarely. The problem is that a lot of Republicans have reverted to childhood behaviors and like a spoilt toddler can't admit they have lost. Perhaps their opponents reminding them that their speech and behavior is like that of a toddler, might cause them to stand up and try being an adult. Nah! I think the Trumpers and Trumpettes have embraced their childishness just as Baby Donnie has.
A child given no boundaries will misbehave more and more frantically trying to find them.
Combined this tendency with that of a crook who never gets caught and gets sloppy. Trump is rushing towards his doom. The amazing part is how many he takes with him. 
Off-topic. On this anniversary of this newsletter I want to say as I did at its inception, thank you Dr Reich for your rather amazing *continued* public service here, with MoveOn, and with Inequality Media, at an age and after so many years already given that most people would quietly retire.
Bennett, thanks for sending that note to Dr. Reich. I agree that he has done and is still doing a tremendous service to this country when many would have gone silent. I really appreciate this thread and Dr. Reich's commentary.
Oh my goodness, your cancel culture is showing. Why do the progressives always call Republican old white men racist and supremacist, but not Democrat old white men? The reason progressives don’t like Donald Trump is because he exposed the Marxism that is prevalent in that party and that’s why over half of America will vote for him again. And by the way, we are a republic. A republic is a form of government in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives. Which Is why our founders put the voting laws for each state under the direction of the state representatives and thankfully not in the hands of the federal government.
Prof. Reich, you write "Candidates who refuse to commit to being bound by the results of elections should be presumed disqualified to hold public office. " Agreed. Of course. But what say you to this: "Candidates who refuse to commit to achieving an authentic democracy wherein women and men have equal rights should be presumed disqualified to hold public office"? This week is Constitution Week--and women still aren't in the Constitution.
Absolutely agree AND "old (and young) white men" are afraid to let women out of their perceived power and control that poor wages and lots of kids ensures ...at least in their minds. I'm tired of being a second class citizen!
Hey Jeannie! I, too am sick of being a second-class citizen with fewer rights than the child-men who are running things now. They think they have the right by virtue of their whiteness and maleness to control our bodies and what happens to us in society while making sure we have no ability to do the same to them. I don't want to control those child-men. I just want to have the right for myself and all women to make our own choices, to not have to experience sexual harassment, to have children or not, to have decent medical care that is based on our physical needs, not what some poorly trained doctor thinks are our needs, and more. If a candidate can't swear to support my rights, he or she has no business in any position of power.
RD, I like your idea that there should be certain principles every candidate should be held to, some very basic ones, equal rights, full citizenship of women, and not permitting insurrectionists to hold office of any kind would be a good set.
Might i recommend that you consider reading Jamal Greene's excellent book "How Rights Went Wrong"
In it he posits with strong and persuasive evidence (He is a legal scholar at Yale) that using SCOTUS to get "rights" built into what should be simple laws has created a situation where we put high incentives on politicians and voters not to support a democracy and instead to support authoritarian rule of law.
Woman are seeing more and more equality year by year. Is changing the constitution going to help any more than getting abortion made legal has protected a woman's right to choose?
Constitution language may not matter when the document contains one's own noun and pronoun, but if language truly doesn't matter, change it to eliminate reference to males. Make it generic.
Mo, I like the idea of fixing the language to be either inclusive or totally non-gendered. Organizations do it all the time. Just that change, cutting out the male words in our Constitution and laws could make a huge difference. We need a group to get that going.
No reply. I doubt I could illustrate the problem more clearly than to ask "why" inclusion of women in our Constitution matters and refer to it as a "marketing blunder".
When you live in a democracy "marketing" policy matters.
I gave the analogy of Defund the police. The police across the country have done some horrific things. "Defund the Police" was a terrible way to market the needed reform. The result is that even liberals no longer want to make the types of reforms that can increase justice to people who have been denied it for too long by too many police departments.
Yes, how you market something matters.
Voters have experienced 40yrs of wage declines, they live in the only wealthy democracy in the world that makes they get access to health insurance from their employer... Monopolies are controlling peoples lives and making them worse.
With that back drop is getting a constitutional amendment to put the words woman in the constitution something progressives should prioritize at the cost of any of these other Problems that government can solve?
I agree with most of what is said here. However, I take issue with Bush v Gore in 2000. This election was indeed stolen. Al Gore won the popular vote and thus won the election regardless of the Supreme Court’s decision. Then Florida Secretary of State Katharine Harris admitted that Al Gore would’ve had the electoral college as well if the entire state of Florida had been re-canvassed. An election that was decided by a politically slanted Supreme Court is unacceptable. Especially considering the shenanigans of the W. Bush campaign. This is why the ‘would be’ W. Bush administration will always be tainted by illegitimacy. It’s one thing to graciously concede in a free and fair election. It’s totally another to concede in a free and fair election in which the winning candidate was declared the loser due to nefarious political activity from the opposition.
Joseph H. I agree totally, and it is because of these crimes against Democracy that we face the situation we are in today. The 'Justices' on our present 'Supreme' Court should be removed because they are illegitimates. What happened with Bush v. Gore 2000 was a slippery slope that has slid our nation downhill to what we have today: Traitors and Seditionists wanting to take over our country, and actually openly running for office to do just that.
Laurie, I am so sad to acknowledge that you are so right about the attempts to undermine our government by traitors and rich white men who think they are owed something they have not earned. There are 3 members of the Supreme Court who should be impeached for lying to Congress. It seems that when conservatives/Republicans lie to Congress, it is just another day's work. An entity that has little validity as a worthy arbiter of who should be on the Supreme Court, The Federalist Society, hand-picked conservative ideologue nominees and a king wannabee, Mitch McConnell pushed them through, knowing he was making things up as he went along, but not caring about the results. That man to me is a traitor and should have been forced out of office, but alas, there is no real mechanism to do that. Heck, we can't even get the members of Congress who tried to overthrow our government out of Congress. That should have happened 20 months ago. We need to fix this!
I agree with you but it was all done within the laws. The Constitution is vague enough that people like McConnell can manipulate it. They are attempting to do what has been done in the past, for example, in Germany. They take over legally and then change the rules.
Joseph, The same thing happened in 2016. We had foreign interference on behalf of the candidate who lost the popular vote but the one who got the office was permitted to continue to claim he had really won the popular vote. The media went along and there were few challenges. That set the stage for what happened in 2020. Trump and Kump do not forget what worked (even if Donald himself doesn't remember). They planted the seeds in 2016 and watched it grow in 2020. We're still dealing with the weeds trying to take over our government.
I made this point also. It discourages voters when the verified loser can walk off with the election because of those overseeing the results want it stopped.
So you just made the case for Trump by using Bush v Gore. It’s the same thing no matter how you look at it. We need to verify every ballot and vet every voter. That is the only way to insure the elections are fair and honest. People will cheat given half the chance ESPECIALLY when so much is at stake. The only difference between Bush v Gore and Trump v Biden is that Trump didn’t concede the election. He didn’t concede because he had PROOF that the Biden campaign cheated. I have seen the proof. Any rational human with two brain cells to rub together once presented this proof can only draw one conclusion which is that TRUMP WON.
If you’ve seen this proof, show it to me. Show it to us. Trump had PROOF that the Biden campaign cheated?? Where is it? Why hasn’t he presented it? Any rational human being with two brain cells to rub together should have the evidence when making such a claim. 60 electoral fraud cases were brought before the courts and every one of them was thrown out. Why? Because there WAS NO evidence of fraud. This is in no way like Bush v Gore. Why? Because there WAS evidence in that case.
Again, show us the proof you have that Trump won the election. Take all the time you need.
Dinesh D’Souza is a known conspiracy theorist with no credibility. 2000 Mules has been totally debunked. It plainly says this in the link you sent. I’m asking for proof from a credible source. Show us if you can.
I have not been informed that it was debunked and BTW the CIA invented the term conspiracy theorist to devalue the ideology of patriotic Americans who didn’t go along with their agenda...try harder. Perhaps you can post a link to the proof that 2000 Mules was debunked. Don’t give me some Snopes crap drummed up by two hookers and a crackhead either. If your truth is viable, it will hold up and change my mind. I find surveillance camera footage to be pretty damning evidence. It hold up in a court of law so why wouldn’t it work here?
It says in the link which YOU sent that 2000 Mules has been debunked. Can you read? It’s you who needs to try harder. No amount of truth will change a mind like yours. You’re so far down the Q-Anon rabbit hole that you’re totally unsalvageable. This site is for constructive debate. It’s not for people who spew gibberish. This means it’s not for you.
the irony that struck me hard is that many of these republicans in congress were elected in elections they say were fraudulent. shouldn't they then disqualify themselves from serving as being elected in a bogus election means your victory is bogus as well?
Yeah Gary, one might think that, but logic is not part of the Republican repetoir. Like little kids, they pick and choose what they will do and agree to with no actual reason because well, why? They all need to be called out as liars. Maybe we could have a liars list put out that included the names of anyone who does not agree to fair election results. We need to call those guys what they are, liars. OK, we need to use other words too, fakes, insurrectionists, traitors"
Ruth, as a fellow American...I have to say I love you and your enthusiasm. I just wish you would use a different tactic then calling people names. Do you have proof of these accusations?
You are right. We do live in a semi democracy which allows authoritarians to take over legally and then change the rules. It has certainly happened in the past.
Sep 20, 2022·edited Sep 20, 2022Liked by Robert Reich
On 538, I've been noticing that in OH, from 2021, Ryan solidly led Vance by 1 point, with 27% undecided. A couple of days before May 1, 2022, the poll flipped to Vance with a 0.8 point lead an 23% undecided. Vance's lead held and widened to 2.6 points until the 4th of July, when the poll flipped back to Ryan, who took a 2.7 point lead on 17.5% undecided. However, although that lead has held, it's volatile, with respect to the generally decreasing percentage of undecided voters. Ryan's lead widened to a high of 4.5 points, but then abruptly dropped to a 1 point lead on 12.4% undecided. I think that's when Vance began his advertising blitz. That lead fell to 0.6 points on 10.2% undecided at the beginning of September. As of the 18th, Ryan's lead fell a bit to 0.5% points, but the undecided increased to 11.2% undecided. Vance's attack on Ryan over fighting and defunding police - which is a lie, because Ryan's been attacking institutional racism, and has publicly announced he's against defunding the police - and taxing "the little guy" - another lie, since the tax increases have been generally on wealthy and very wealthy - seems to have been effective. Vance is also promoting the myth that 87,000 IRS agents have been hired to come after said "little guy." Ryan needs to start attacking Vance as a bigoted liar in service to a bigoted liar, who leads a party of bigoted liars - which does not include that faction of Republicans they've already designated as RINOs, to be driven from the party - among his other obvious character flaws. That 11.2% will have a decisive impact in November, should they >all< do anything other than opt out of voting.
I don't think it's because they don't have principles. I think it's simply that they have no idea what the hell to believe! That's been ol' Tweety's objective all along, and you >know< I'm right about that. (An assertion I rarely make. But I know you have wits, and I'm confident you'll agree.) >That's< why he just >loves< the undereducated.
Something to consider, as well. That's >exactly< the strategy he has typically, and currently using with regard to the legal system - trying to reduce the whole debate to an exercise in he said/she said - where facts are sparse and claims are overwhelming. ol' Tweety's secret motto is probably: "You can't produce a fact I can't controvert." It appears - for the moment - that his "special master" sees right through it.
When you discuss principles, don’t forget that MAGA doesn’t do stuff like this. You guys are never gonna get your way until you stop violence against someone with different views.
German was an investigative journalist, and he did >exactly< what investigative journalists do - and paid the price all self-respecting investigative journalists are prepared to pay. Only lyin' FOX is asking Carlston-style if he was a Republican. German wrote articles critical of Telles' practices. Telles was the target of German's investigation, who was subsequently rejected by the voters. Law enforcement caught Telles almost immediately, and he will face the consequences in front of a judge and jury. Unlike MAGA-types, who rally around their own known criminals, Telles will face the noose without the assistance or support of Democrats. So it isn't >really< about violence against someone having different views. That's >your< lie. Remember that next time you help build a makeshift gallows on the Capitol grounds, and make sure to include a noose for yourself. After all, where you go one, you >will< go all.
I'm sure a judge & jury of his peers will get to the bottom of it - whatever the outcome. And it'll be without the assistance of or interference by Democrats.
Maybe the lack of mainstream coverage of the ND incident has nothing to do with politics. What if it was only polit-psychos would be interested on such an incident happening between an unknown idiotic kid and an unknown idiotic paranoid in nowhere North Dakota. Otherwise, the mainstream didn't carry it because it was of interest to >nobody<, otherwise. Mainstream's there to entertain it's viewers - just like FOX. Mainstream is only interested in making money, caters to a wide mainstream audience, and bored or disinterested viewers don't make them money - it doesn't mean mainstream is particularly liberal. Mainstream's lack of interest only suggests to me that the only way it could be of interest to >anybody< is if the news outlet makes its money by promoting it's own political narrative to a specific kind of audience it also cultivates - or "grooms," to use the kind of language your ilk likes to use. Maybe mainstream will eventually feature it in something like Dateline, or 20/20. I've frequently come across things I've never heard about, the odd times I've dipped into TV journals like that. Broadcast needs to observe FCC regulations with respect to what it broadcasts. FOX only broadcasts infomercials on broadcast, complete with content disclaimers! They only shovel the $hi7 they shovel on cable - outside of FCC regulations, particularly with regard to fact-based truth.
Heres what astounds me: millions of people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 then voted for Trump 2016. They couldn't have had any clear concept of who these men were, what their beliefs and principles were. I am guessing they were just swayed by Trumps rhetoric.
But what about his rhetoric? His white supremacism doesn’t fit with voting for Obama. I would like to see an analysis of this. I’m not questioning you. I’m wondering about how their brains work—or don’t.
I don't know how to copy a link, but I will refer you to Wikipedia article "Obama -Trump Voters". I have read about this phenomenon in several articles, and it just seems to show the lack of understanding, or rationality? of some voters.
Got it. My reading of this, and I’ll post an excerpt below, is that these people are extremely illogical and mixed up.
“Shortly before the 2016 election, The New York Times reported that Obama voters who planned to vote for Trump felt he embodied the "change" they had hoped for when they voted for Obama.[13] Multiple focus groups of Obama–Trump voters convened by the Roosevelt Institute and Democracy Corps in early 2017 showed that in general these voters wanted to change the status quo and had skeptical views of Congressional Republicans and their proposals. The same focus groups also indicated that these voters hoped then-President Trump would help reduce health care costs for working-class Americans, and that they were anxious about some immigrant groups.[14]”
First, I bet every MAGA Ukrainian-Ohioan now supports Ryan. I'd hope that everyone of Slavic origin supports the Ukraine and knows that many Republicans stand with Putin.
Second, the image of those Nazi salutes in Youngstown has to move everyone who remembers WWII. I bet they're not showing it on Fax. Ryan has to get the word out. Many of the cult members at the Y-town rally were from out of state. The media can identify them. Ask whether Republicans approve. Besides Vance, Gym Jordan and other candidates were there. Were they saluting?
Third, De Wine wasn't there. Make sure that he repudiates 1. those Nazi salutes 2. the big lie.
Exactly what Nazi salute are you referring to? I watched the entire thing and not once did I see a Nazi salute. I assume you are referring to when the crowd held up one finger to represent we are one people, one nation together moving forward. Is that the Nazi salute you are clearly wrong about?
"Everyone who remembers WWII"—??? All 17? Hardly enough to form a Fox focus group. Korean War, maybe, although they were were far fewer. … MAGAts from out of state for sure, Youngstown being one narrow West Virginia panhandle away from western Pennsylvania. Not known previously as qAnon turf, I don't think. … Friend of mine back when was a psychiatric social worker in bible belt Ohio—about the only place in the U.S., she said, where hysterical paralysis was still commonly diagnosed.
I must be one of your 17. I was 6 when WWII started, 12 when it ended (I was a Canadian then), so I wasn't actually in battle, but 2 of my uncles were. I remember the war vividly, listened to the reports on radio, read the newspapers, had endless discussions with my father, wrote to my Uncle Archie, who was a medic, and avidly followed his every move on the maps. My most lasting memory was the Life magazine layout of pictures taken at the concentration camps, the stacks of emaciated bodies of the dead prisoners, and the equally emaciated bodies of those who lived. I also remember the precepts of fascism, it is one of the most insidious, disgusting, political systems I have heard of before or since. I realize Americans were taught to hate and fear Communism (a political system that has never existed, except in theory) For myself, authoritarianism (by any name they choose to call it) is the most fearsome system of all. That is what the trumpster is trying to foist on the United States. Due to the lack of political education (Civics) of the vast majority of American citizens, he darned near succeeded for four years and with the help of the Graham's, Hawley's, Cruz's and DeSantis' it could still happen.
I remember beginning and end too. My father, an American, was very much in it, but he didn't talk about it, so I won't either, nor use it as a springboard.
Good for you, neither of my uncles talked about their actual experiences either, except for incidents that were too well known and then only as what happened and was reported. My Uncle Archie, who was my Dad's younger brother, was on a hospital ship that was torpedoed in the Mediterranean, but that's all he ever said, he was on the ship and was rescued. I've always thought of WWII as the last real war; Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq, were all wars to strengthen some corporate hold, not to uphold the right of people to live their lives in peace and safety. I've always felt sorry for our troops who risked their lives and honor to support their Country, when what they were really supporting were corporate interests. Our government just lied to them.
Undoubtedly, the orderly transfer of power is the lifeblood of democracy. Still, in my view, absent comprehensive federal voter protection legislation that deals with the complex challenges facing our voting systems today—specifically GOP controlled state legislatures changing state election rules to change who can be in charge, how votes are counted, and how they’re certified— perhaps our efforts at this moment are better served if we focus mainly on the necessary actions for protecting election integrity and for laying the groundwork for preserving representative government by popular consent.
Barbara Jo, Absolutely correct! We need to address the voting suppression and making voting fair and secure in every jurisdiction which cannot be tampered with by people with their own personal political aims. Then we need to address gerrymandering. No matter how one cuts it, gerrymandering is cheating! That's it and to pretend it is anything else is a lie!
Ruth, You’re absolutely right. We need federal safeguards that ensure all eligible votes are cast, counted correctly, and certified without interference and without their being diluted through partisan gerrymandering. Despite their failure, by 2 votes, to modify the filibuster to pass the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Act, still, I rely on Democrats to be our allies in preserving our democratic republic.
Will, Over time, aspects of our Republic have become increasing democratic. For example, in 1913, the 17th Amendment provided for the direct popular election of senators. Additionally, while initially state legislatures chose presidential electors in most states, states progressively changed to selection by popular election.
I agree. Reading some of the other comments this seems like a no-brainer. If you don't like the rules, then don't play the game. If you can't commit to the rules, then you shouldn't be in the game.
Maggie, you gave an excellent analogy. We have just entered football season. I can't imagine what would happen if players just decided they were not going to play by the rules or make up their own rules. They would be kicked out of the game and even dropped from the team. Maybe that is the analogy we can use to explain to election deniers. "You are trying to play the political game while making up the rules as you go along. Like in football, a player who does that would be kicked out of the game." Now, let's kick the deniers out, even off the team if they don't get with the rules.
Big sigh here. This is a really important and depressing question. I'm not sure "liberals" are exactly the problem. But I feel the Democratic party took a wrong turn under Bill Clinton when it somehow decided that it could do without the labor movement. This was reinforced under Obama who chose every single one of his economic advisors from the money insider classes from Wall Street and academia. Obama got a lot of support from unions. The implicit deal was that they were going to get card check off in return which would have made it easier to organize workplaces. But it never happened. In the absence of an organized commitment to working-class economics (and I am working class sitting at my computer!), it became very easy for the Republicans to turn working people against the Democrats.
I gave Biden campaign contributions in 2008 because I thought he was a better candidate than Hillary and Obama. Turned out I was right.
Obama was a HUGE disappointment. From taking the advice of Larry (I don't do infrastructure) Summers, to the ruination of the medical profession (don't get me started there).
The only thing Bill Clinton got right was to raise taxes. Everything else was a sellout to Wall Street, from NAFTA (the main beneficiaries of which, in addition to Wall Street, were the 6 richest families in Spain), to the monetization of the prisons, to the dissolution of Glass Stiegel with a POTUS EO (advised to do so by....drumroll..... Summers, Greenspan, and dopey Robert Rubin).
NAFTA, predictably, enraged the MAGA mob and gave us Trump. To see Clinton justify NAFTA to Zacharia on Sunday was nauseating. You can trade with rich countries on your border, like Canada, but if you eliminate tariffs on poor countries you get what Ross Perot predicted, a giant sucking noise as factories are shipped there.
I totally agree with your analysis. Two questions.
1. I did not follow Biden back in 2008, but is it your view that his current performance is what he would have done back then? Or do you think he and his team have learned from the mistakes of Obama.
2. NAFTA ended my family business. So i am no friend of NAFTA. Cost 300jobs at our factory. On top of that, at the time i was convinced by people like Rush Limbaugh that NAFTA was going to be great. I got duped but i undestand better how media can get people to support policy that is rationally not in their best interest.
But is it not possible that NAFTA would have been far better if the employees that were impacted by it were taken care of with a far more generous transition package. Yrs of unemployment, health care, effective job training, relocation funds? And all of that funded by higher taxes on the people and companies that benefited in the long run from NAFTA.
Additionally those taxes could be used to help small businesses transition into new industries.
Europe sent just as many if not more jobs to Eastern Europe at the same time we were doing NAFTA. No one impacted by that trade had to go with out health care, or could not send their kids to university. There was highly effective job re skilling and plenty of unemployment insurance. All paid for by the rich people profiting by moving the jobs off shore
I think i handed you a soft ball pitch there. You absolutely hit it out of the park.
You are totally right, it is not "liberals" that have let down the working class. It is MainStream Democrats that have let down the working class.
Solution: In 8yrs the TeaParty organized, protested and voted. The result was that by the end of the Obama Administration they had their guy in the White House. And by the time their guy left the White House they had taken over the GOP and are removing the Neoliberal (George Bush, Mitt Romney) wing of the party.
The "liberals" in the Democratic party need to do the same thing with our Neoliberal leaders and members of the Democratic party.
Until we do that the GOP will continue to be a legitimate threat to take back power and i dare say, this time they wont give it back.
Michael D. The only role liberals have played is trying to trust the system that was carefully being undermined from within by Republicans who do not really believe in the United States of America, just their own power and ability to accumulate money and even more power. We do need to wake up now, though because those underminers are digging out the foundation at this point and soon we will have nothing to stand on if we don't act. They have taken over the Supreme Court, several federal courts, and many state legislatures, selecting and electing people who have no clue but know they want as much power and money as they can get. We have a lot of addicted Republicans to power and money which is a far more destructive drug than any opiate. We need a tough love intervention for them and us.
I think i heard the tough love intervention from Clinton in justifying his cruel cuts to the safety net and in laying the class room to prison incarceration state that started under him.
Tough love may or may not work with your kids. It does not work with 1/3 of the nation.
Finding common ground is far more likely to shift the destructive path Republican voters are putting us on with the people they are voting for. The majority of Dems support Government funded health care, $15 national min wage, higher taxes on the rich. So do the majority of GOP voters.
If we voters can start electing dems that will PUSH for these policies the GOP will rapidly lose voters. We saw it happen when Obama ran in 2008. Millions of Obama voters switched to Trump because he did not deliver on the promises he made on issues like these.
Leaders in the DEM party are failing to deliver on economic policy issues Dem and GOP voters want.
So what that means for GOP voters is that they might as well vote for the party that agrees with their identity politics. Obama showed them, the Dems wont give GOP voters what they want.
I see Biden actually trying to deliver on many of the promises but there is a reality to deal with. Republicans block vote to stop everything and then we have the Manchin/Sinema problem.
A Presidents job is to lead. If Biden wants bills passed and he can't get Manchin and Sinema on board then he needs to push the bill to the public and in particular in their state.
You saw Trump do that with Republican voters and it worked. He got the voters to change their mind on issues like "stop the steal" and voters kicked law makers out that did not back him on his lie...
Leaders need to lead. Manchin and Sinima are not excuses for Biden not delivering. I think he does not deliver on issues he does not want to deliver on and then he blames Manchin and Sinema
Trump and Biden are in very different positions. First, the republican party is not a big tent and is very homogeneous. Democrats are very diverse. Trump has turned the republicans into a cult but he now frequently is following them rather than the other way. Trump isn't leading anymore but he is jumping in front. Did you see his last rally? He is now trying to lead QAnon but he can't. He can just adopt their craziness. All the republicans are terrified of their base. The democrats are not terrified of their base.
Also you have to follow the money. Manchin and Sinema have benefitted from republican fundraisers and are recipients of large donations. Biden would not be able to get West Virginians to go against Manchin. Sinema just doesn't seem to give a damn. She got what she came there for. I'm not sure how crazy Arizona is but we will find out in the next election.
Michael H. Trump had a sense that he lost the election, but it didn't fit with his world view that he can't lose at anything. He would love the idea of just appointing him dictator even though he has no idea what that would involve. He has a bunch of sycophants, though who will help him out, forming their own personal hatreds into actions Trump could and should take and Trump would do it because he is not really thinking clearly these days and for quite a while. We need the elections because that's how we can get rid of those dictator wannabees and their entourage.
I agree with your conclusions. Those candidates should be disqualified. There is no other
way to handle the “bad sportsmanship” of Trump and his flying monkeys.
I am using that term as a lead in to my comments.
Some years ago in an effort to understand people who voted for Trump, I picked a few ordinary Trumpers, not political figures, just people who made comments that would put them on the opposite side from me. I proceeded to read their Twitter bios and Twitter feeds.
This was not a scientific study, of course, but the ones I read had way more entries about sports than politics. Lots of info about teams, players, games, etc.
It occurs to me that sports analogies and discussions of sportsmanship might be used as a way to break through to some of the less crazy Trump crowd in terms of their pre-election denial.
(Trump himself is a notoriously poor sport who regularly cheats at golf. I read an article describing
how he asked his caddy to sneak out to move the ball of a 10 year old boy who had made a better shot than the Orange Spoil Sport.)
Anyway, regarding Vance and other GOP pre-election denier candidates:
If as he stepped up to the plate, a baseball player said that he will never accept the ruling of the umpire and, if he didn’t get to first base, it meant that the other team was cheating, that player would be immediately be put back on the bench and likely kicked off the team.
To be a player means agreeing to play by the rules in advance. The player may argue with the umpire,
but he still has to accept the umpire’s calls.
Trump has been a poor sport all his life. The pre-election denying candidates who he bullies and blesses are likewise poor sports who have no intentions of following the rules.
They should be kicked off the team, forfeit the signing bonus, take their ball and go home.
Additionally, I suggest reading Hillary Clinton’s concession speech, which follows my comments.
I’ve never been an admirer of Hillary, but what a contrast from Trump. It’s almost as if she knew what was to come.
Hillary’s concession speech:
Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.
But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together, this vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.
I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.
We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.
Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don’t just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.
Now — and let me add, our constitutional democracy demands our participation, not just every four years but all the time. So let’s do all we can to keep advancing the causes and values we all hold dear; making our economy work for everyone not just those at the top, protecting our country and protecting our planet and breaking down all the barriers that hold any American back from achieving their dreams.
We’ve spent a year and a half bringing together millions of people from every corner of our country to say with one voice that we believe that the American dream is big enough for everyone — for people of all races and religions, for men and women, for immigrants, for LGBT people, and people with disabilities. For everyone.
So now, our responsibility as citizens is to keep doing our part to build that better, stronger, fairer America we seek. And I know you will.
I am so grateful to stand with all of you. I want to thank Tim Kaine and Anne Holton for being our partners on this journey.
It has been a joy getting to know them better, and it gives me great hope and comfort to know that Tim will remain on the front lines of our democracy representing Virginia in the Senate.
To Barack and Michelle Obama, our country owes you an enormous debt of gratitude.
We — we thank you for your graceful, determined leadership that has meant so much to so many Americans and people across the world.
And to Bill and Chelsea, Mark, Charlotte, Aidan, our brothers and our entire family, my love for you means more than I can ever express. You crisscrossed this country on our behalf and lifted me up when I needed it most — even four-month-old Aidan who traveled with his mom.
I will always be grateful to the creative, talented, dedicated men and women at our headquarters in Brooklyn and across our country.
You poured your hearts into this campaign. For some of you who are veterans, it was a campaign after you had done other campaigns. Some of you, it was your first campaign. I want each of you to know that you were the best campaign anybody could have ever expected or wanted.
And to the millions of volunteers, community leaders, activists and union organizers who knocked on doors, talked to neighbors, posted on Facebook, even in secret, private Facebook sites…
… I want everybody coming out from behind that and make sure your voices are heard going forward.
To everyone who sent in contributions as small at $5 and kept us going, thank you. Thank you from all of us.
And to the young people in particular, I hope you will hear this. I have, as Tim said, spent my entire adult life fighting for what I believe in. I’ve had successes and I’ve had setbacks. Sometimes, really painful ones. Many of you are at the beginning of your professional public and political careers. You will have successes and setbacks, too.
This loss hurts, but please never stop believing that fighting for what’s right is worth it.
It is — it is worth it.
And so we need — we need you to keep up these fights now and for the rest of your lives.
And to all the women, and especially the young women, who put their faith in this campaign and in me, I want you to know that nothing has made me prouder than to be your champion.
Now, I — I know — I know we have still not shattered that highest and hardest glass ceiling, but some day someone will and hopefully sooner than we might think right now.
And — and to all the little girls who are watching this, never doubt that you are valuable and powerful and deserving of every chance and opportunity in the world to pursue and achieve your own dreams.
Finally…
Finally, I am so grateful for our country and for all it has given to me. I count my blessings every single day that I am an American. And I still believe as deeply as I ever have that if we stand together and work together with respect for our differences, strength in our convictions and love for this nation, our best days are still ahead of us.
Because, you know — you know, I believe we are stronger together and we will go forward together. And you should never, ever regret fighting for that. You know, scripture tells us, “Let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due season, we shall reap if we do not lose heart.”
So my friends, let us have faith in each other, let us not grow weary, let us not lose heart, for there are more seasons to come. And there is more work to do.
I am incredibly honored and grateful to have had this chance to represent all of you in this consequential election.
May God bless you and may God bless the United States of America.
Signing a commitment to be bound by the electoral results should be a legal requirement to have one's name printed on the ballot.
Political activists in each state should start a movement to enshrine this requirement in their state's electoral law.
I also agree on this, with the addition of strict enforcement of anti-harassment laws to protect poll workers, etc. Another essential is campaign finance reform. Together, they would go a long way towards protecting Democracy.
You are spot on with this comment, Steven.
Their real campaign message: "Why even vote? After all, your vote is meaningless."
Daniel, I hope that "don't bother voting, your vote won't count anyway" is not the message that is broadcast. An active electorate that values our Constitutional government is necessary for this nation to continue in freedom.
It's EXACTLY their message. They are Fascists.
I agree with U Daniel. The fascists won’t say those words out loud bec they are such pussies but the message is still going to transmit to voters! I also agree with Ruth that our entire democratic election process needs rehabilitation by first overturning Citizens United & then dismantling the Electoral College. Every person’s vote only counts fairly when the winner is determined by a majority of the popular vote. I also believe the campaign election season needs to be much shorter & campaign contributions should be somehow standardized with limits to amounts allowed by PACs or other groups to be contributed. We already have limitations on individual’s contributions that maybe should be increased & there needs to be mandatory debates in the last month of campaigning between Pres & VP candidates with no advance notice of questions being asked! Gerrymandering also needs to be addressed. Our government could spend years arguing over how to improve & perfect our election system! To date it seems to me politicians have instead looked for ways to game the system to one’s own advantage! I’ve read articles that state our Senatorial numbers should be equal to the number of people they represent instead of automatically every state getting only 2 per state! Too much power goes to smaller sparsely populated states with our current system & we r ending up with a tied or nearly evenly split number of Ds & Rs! If we ever accept DC & Puerto Rico as states, that issue would be more pronounced. Maybe 1 Senator per million people or per 5 million people would be more fair. It could be voted on. Our dysfunctional Senate needs a big overhaul along with the entire election process. Who would take on such a huge job, a separate special committee I’m guessing ! It could be a real hot potato issue.
system won't let me "heart" your comment..
Hard to know, but it seems that if anyone specifically decides not to vote because they've bought into the notion that the system is faulty or rigged, and they believe the last presidential one was stolen, then... fewer red votes... And in the end, it also seems that if you don't vote, you're hardly in a position to claim that the election you chose to ignore was fraudulent, etc..
Great observation. They should be careful what they wish for.
Ruth, That is NOT his message. That is the election deniers' message in a nutshell. Iagree with Daniel. Their goal seems fairly obvious...why bother?
Everyone’s VOTE matters. I was so concerned about Trump being elected in 2016 that I began doing light research. What I found out is that 30-40 yrs. ago the republican party created a scheme to take over our govt. and drastically change it into a libertarian form of govt., including writing a new Constitution to reflect libertarian ‘values.’ What has happened over the years is, libertarian values have morphed into authoritarian/fascist values that no one in their right mind would want.
In order to implement their scheme the gop had to have more VOTERS to elect more republicans. One of the first things they did to get more republican voters was to appeal to groups that had never been able to get political traction because there weren’t enough of them & because their beliefs were outside the mainstream. I’m mostly referring to evangelicals and white supremacists. Republicans brought those VOTERS into their “tent” because they needed their votes. In return for their VOTES, the gop agreed to help them get what they wanted. I don’t know exactly what they were promised, but if you’ve paid any attention to politics in the last 30 yrs. you’ve noticed the rise of evangelicals by the prominence of the ‘right to life’ movement and you’ve noticed the growing white supremacist movement.
Both groups couldn’t get traction in American politics not just because there weren’t enough of them to make a difference, but also because what each group wants is to drastically curb our individual rights to live our lives without govt. interference. In addition to ‘right to life,’ evangelicals want a national Christian religion in direct opposition to the 1st amendment of our Constitution.
From what I can gather, white supremacists want to exclude people with brown or black skin from mainstream society, making them a permanent ‘underclass’ of people without the same rights and privileges as people with white skin. That kind of society is in direct opposition to our laws and also to the premise that all people have the same inalienable rights under our Constitution. But, my point is, if VOTES weren’t important we wouldn’t be grappling right now with what Donald Trump has done to our country, because I doubt the republican party would’ve made him their presidential candidate in 2016.
If VOTES don’t matter we wouldn’t be seeing gerrymandered maps for the purpose of manipulating the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favor one party or class.
Republicans also wouldn’t be trying to remove our right to VOTE. The fact is, if we aren’t very careful going forward we will lose our right to vote. Our VOTES are the only thing that can save us.
99% of those evangelicals do better economically under Democrats. And also there's the beatitudes....
Ruth ;I agree ; voters, along with poll workers and election officials should feel safe going to the polls, if they can't vote by mail.
It's a pretext to discount elections & the democratic process & to install themselves in permanent control of a newly formed autocracy.
True; They feel entitled to a 'win', and are doing everything possible, even threatening violence again, to get that 'win'.
"It is also the most important qualification for public office." Is it even a qualification? E.g., the only qualification for president is to be 35 years old, a natural born citizen of the US, and a resident for the past 14(?) years. I think most elected offices have similar qualifications, except for being a naturalized citizen. So, indeed, there should be legal requirements to be on the ballot.
A demonstrable familiarity with the workings of the government and the responsibilities of the office (whichever one you're running for) would also be a good qualification to have, and each prospective candidate should have to sign an oath to uphold those laws when they apply to be a candidate.
It's quite clear that large numbers of candidates running for Congress, State Houses, Governorships, and even the Presidency, have zero clue what the US Constitution actually says. Their ignorance of the laws of their own states is equally apparent.
If one of these jokers walked into an interview this unprepared they’d be shown the door.
You are right, Beth. The men who wrote the Constitution were well meaning men, of (for the times) good character. Not in their wildest imagination, could they foresee the likes of donald j trump being on the ballot, let alone being elected. They assumed too much. We need to update the Constitution, to make ourselves clear on what we expect of all elected offices. Unfortunately, I read, recently, that some retrumplicans are also calling for an updated Constitution, but not with the safety I have in mind. They want to enshrine, white supremacy. bigotry, and religion.
Republicans have no desire to change the constitution they just wish the Democrats would follow it. 
About changing the Constitution: There is a great risk in doing it, which is why we so seldom do it. Buried in the Constitution are two ways to amend it. The most dangerous way allows each state exactly one vote to accept or reject a proposed amendment. The ultra conservative multibillionaire Koch dynasty has been working for decades on getting enough votes to set this in motion and convene a constitutional convention. The last time I looked the Kochs were only a few states short of success. (This is from memory, haven't looked at for a while.)
Thank you, Bob. I am aware of the risk. If, it could be managed, such that a limited number of persons, with intimate knowledge of both the Constitution, the law in general, Constitutional Law, in particular, full knowledge of the Supreme Court findings (before the current illegitimate Supreme Court. With absolutely no religious bent whatsoever. Also with full understanding, they are to revise, not throw out the current Constitution, it could work
Maureen you are right about candidates signing agreements to uphold proven fair elections. How to get state legislatures to pass that into law will be hard since so many of the state legislators don't want such a law. Cheating is fair game to a lot of them and holding them to honesty won't work for them.
I’m thinking that this type of agreement would be necessary to be put into the Congressional voting rights Bill because the red states would never do this on their own.
Well said. But a generation ago, this wouldn't have been necessary or even thinkable. Having to legislate morality is a sign of a downward trend in our society's civility. We must address the root causes: social media-megaphoned lies, inequality and a growing autocracy, electoral college, the filibuster, gerrymandering, and dark money in politics.
The signs should be obvious to anybody who regularly watches the evening news. What seems to be missing is the ability to connect the dots and recognize where these trends are taking us. It's easy to assemble a counter-conspiracy hypothesis centered on big business and social conservatives. In addition, I think that "moral equivalency" in media is fueling this conflagration. There is a true "right" and "wrong" and we all need the training to discern the difference.
You only need to look at who owns the media. It’s the large corporations who own and control what we see. They promote the news they want seen and avoid posting what they don’t. Yes we see some criticism, but very little. “ Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will.” Joseph Goebbels
I agree if you can't sign agreement you can't run!
'Should have to sign,' yes---but there is no such requirement now. And the issue isn't quite as clean cut as it appears. This would be something to address in Congressional legislation on voting rights and process in the next Congress, presuming the Democrats control both houses.
Elections do get rigged: that is a fact, and has occurred with some frequency in American history alone, though far less in recent generations. National law and the Supreme Court have historically steered clear of putting in place clear, clean, election dispute resolution processes, precisely so that both major parties could at times fuzz a close vote enough to claim a win. We are in this sorry mess exactly because latent potentials for corrupt partisanship have been left embedded in the system, and, again, both major parties have a share of blame in that. New voting security requirements should mandate a dispute resolution process for ALL elections, with procedures for recount, certification, and contesting the outcome in a restricted and streamlined process in court if and as necessary. At _that_ juncture, the law on voting security could and must spell out that any candidate who fails to use the mandated process is automatically disqualified from the office in question. And that allegations of fraud without _specific evidence_ are actionable civilly and criminally by established authorities and other interested parties to the dispute. Anyone with a concern that an election was in fact invalid must and should have their day in court, but they'd better have a smoking gun of evidence. Like, say, a stolen vote tabulation machine.
It is a testament to how low our national media has sunk that it is not a demonstrable line of reporting that the only party to actually try to rig portions of the 2020 vote has been _the Republican Party_, specifically it's MAGAt wing, who have less than no respect for the actual rights of anyone else in our society, for health, safety, due process, fair elections, or clean government . . . because the MAGAts, by their stated words and deeds, don't believe in any of those things for anyone else but themselves.
I totally agree.
It’s ironic that it even needs to be stated. What type of people put their name on a ballot that they claim is rigged? We’ve sunk so low.
I may be barking up the wrong tree, however IMHO it's already Law, via the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Articles 2 & 8
Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 8
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
Maureen ; what a good idea!
Thank you.
I agree. Parties need to vet the mental and moral capacity of their candidates before they are allowed to run. More fool the Republican Party for inflicting sick Trump on the country- but it could just have easily been a Democratic candidate.
I should have made it clearer that I was not ruling out the rights to demand a recount or launch a lawsuit, but there should be some way of keeping them off the ballot if they declare they won't accept the results of an election unless they win.
Unfortunately, going to court didn't do Gore much good. Obviously major judicial reform is also necessary.
The problem, Jack, is that I didn't make it clear at all. Thanks for calling me out.
Well, I hope it's clearer now, but you bring up a valid problem--how to keep Trump and Trump-lites from refusing to accept the results of elections just because they lose without curtailing candidates' rights to request recounts if results are close and/or investigations. and recounts if there is real evidence of electoral fraud.
Unfortunately, I think the MAGAts would see lying as simply good strategy deserving of more votes.
Many Republicans who claim that the 2020 election was stolen from Trump won their own seats down ballot. Why were their elections not stolen as well? No one asks that.
Refusal to accept the results ahead of time should disqualify someone from running for a position. If you’re not going to play by the rules, you can’t be in the game, period.
Suzanne, you are right about rarely questioning the legitimacy of the down ballot votes if the top is challenged. I have noticed Republicans don't care about logic, they will claim some nonsense about voting machines and the way things were counted. They can't just stand up like an adult and say "OK, I was wrong! The election was extremely fair even if I didn't get the results I wanted." I agree that if a candidate can't accept the results of a fair election, they cannot serve because one would always wonder about his/her integrity (a value missing in many Republicans these days, alas).
Have you even looked into the possibility that what they are saying is correct? You sit there all smug throwing insults but do absolutely no research. Have you watched 2000 mules? Your cognitive dissonance is real for sure!
Spot on.
Actually, what they’re doing is building a mobius strip: it isn’t valid unless I win. But what happens if you win and other party members lose? Do you question the results and throw their victories into doubt? It’s pretzel logic. And BTW, on what grounds is it valid to claim that as long as the vote doesn’t go one’s way it has to be rigged? Because you (the candidate) can’t imagine anyone not voting for you? Yeesh.
Their is no reason to fix a primary. The trouble comes when you run against the democrat in a state that mails out ballots Willy nillyand doesn’t keep the signatures and proof of ID.
I know that Colorado has been doing mail in ballots as well as several other states, but they are not cleaning up their rolls that’s what I meant by Willy nilly.. There is proof from video cameras that ballot harvesting took place.
We have mail in voting in Texas, but we are aware of how cheating occurs with mail in as well as early voting so we put the word out to vote on Election Day ONLY which makes it harder to cheat.
We register every year in Florida. How can you maintain integrity without verifying the voter rolls every year?
When it is debunked from a reliable source, I will pay attention. I would not trust one thing the main stream media has to say. You can go from one broadcast to another and what they say is almost exactly the same script. So, are you an expert on Colorado elections? Why would I listen to sources who have been wrong so often with hardly a whisper of retraction. How often did they report the fact that the entire Russian dossier against Trump was a complete lie bought and paid for by the Clinton machine and the DNC. Which all came out in Sussman’s trial. Spying on your opponent is definitely facism.
The Democrats really shot themselves in the foot with Hispanics, black men and evangelicals when they revised their platform to remove God and denigrate families. a group who does not wish to honor God’s principles. Is likely to find truth to be an inconvenient problem.
Sounds good to me Robert. If you can't play by the rules, then you can't be in the game. Yep. I like it!
Democracy _is_ first and foremost being bound by elections.
But it has become the Republican credo that there are two kinds of elections: elections they win and elections that were rigged. I fear for America.
If the elections were fair, why were poll watchers forbidden to watch counts in Pennsylvania...remember pizza boxes taped over windows in the counting room. Just One of multiple examples.
Give us a source for your accusations. I'm in PA. I don't remember this. I do remember the MAGAts banging on windows, doors, screaming in hallways, threatening violence. You say pizza boxes over windows in PA is just one of a multitude of examples. Provide sources.
Oops, Michigan. Pennsylvania changed their rules for the final counts. I wish that we would do away with the machines and have paper ballots. How can France have paper ballots and complete their count in one evening and we have machines and mail in, plus early voting and it takes weeks in some cases.
Thanks for exposing the disinformation, DLM. This related spy story is a good read, if long: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/18/us/womens-march-russia-trump.html
Those Republicans are liars. Why do Republican voters care?
Practically ever blue state has a fully gerrymandered map that prevents GOP from holding any power.... Republican voters see cheating on both sides.
I don't agree with them, i am just trying to frame the conversation in reality
Show me some blue states where the republicans get more votes statewide but the state legislatures are totally dominated by the democrats. I can show you states where the democrats get more votes statewide but the republican dominate the state legislature. You are starting with a false equivalence.
Please show examples and sources...I’d be very interested in getting to the bottom of this.
Will, I won't do all your legwork for you. Check out voting in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. They all voted for Biden and have democratic governors but have solidly right wing state legislatures.
I find it funny and disingenuous when you demand proof from me but won’t supply the same...”Do your own legwork” if I had said that you would immediately negate everything I’m telling you as lies and propaganda. This is part of the problem. The TRUTH has no problem shining brightly and proving itself. If what you are saying is true, you should have no problem showing the proof in order to sway me to your argument. I have absolutely no issues with showing proof and providing links for the things I’m saying. Double-standard much?
You should be
The question, though, is what role have liberals and democrats played in getting a large % of Americans to support Trump's big LIE?
I think us liberals have a lot to be blamed for here.
Rubbish
LB
What happens when two sides strongly disagree and refuse to accept any responsibility for the issues the other side is angry about?
- Republicans claim that Blue States have been gerrymandered for years. Are they right? (A truth)
- Republicans claim that the main stream media had blocked out their message for years (A BS argument but one they truly believe)
- Republicans claim the entertainment business has largely ignored the identity of conservatives in TV and Films while promoting life styles they oppose.
Republicans think that the combination of these things has in essence been the LEFT Cheating in elections.
Believe them or not, that is not my point. It is what they think and unless you can persuade them otherwise they feel justified in their own party fighting back, even if we think it is cheating.
"Rubbish" does not solve the problem, it just makes it worse
MD ; It is tempting to couch this discussion in terms of 'equivalences' ; like a math equation. The problem is that MAGA Republicans are thumbing their noses at the rule of law, and supporting an insurrectionist liar, who refuses to accept his lost bid for the presidency in the last election. He gins up threats of violence if he is forced to face justice for his crimes. His minion governors use human beings as cannon fodder; abducting them with lies and Dumping them on their opponents for the crime of caring about them. I could go on..but I think you are here to obfuscate. I have better things to do than argue with a person who has an agenda and has apparently made up his mind.
I have made up my mind that Democracy is worth saving.
When both sides insist they are correct and the other side is wrong then there is no room to find the common ground needed to move forward.
The alternative is civil war.
I am open to finding common ground, knowing all we know about the GOP and it’s history.
Democracy in Chains by Nancy MacLean tells their frighting past.
American crushed the oligarchs at the beginning of the 20th century and again in the 30’s.
It starts and ends by stealing their voters not by brow beating them into hating you even more
Have you actually talked to those voters because I've tried to and unless you are willing to accept their position 100%, you are talking to the wall. Have you watched some of these focus groups? The right wingers aren't open to any reasoning. They are in a cult. How do you deal with a cult? To them, their leader is always right.
Go talk to some of these Christian Nationalists and see how much compromise you see. They worship Trump, the least Christian man we've seen.
You are giving easy words but go and actually try it.
All we can do in this life is seek to falsify our best theory, according to Karl Popper. Many theories have been falsified, but Republicans continue to believe them e.g. the trickle down theory of economics, read "After the Music Stopped" or "The Rise & Fall of Neoliberal Capitalism". Conservative ideologues, in their HUBRIS, refuse to be open & humble, intellectual virtues. Democrats are pragmatists, & trust in empirical evidence. They believe that in a more just & equal economy, ALL Americans can better flourish. This has been proven true by Thomas Piketty in "The Brief History of Equality". Yet, today I saw another poll that says Republicans are more trusted on economic issues by the majority of American voters. Are the majority of Americans not paying attention?
I see a pattern where the Republicans get elected and suck everything they can out of the economy, then let the Democrats get elected so they can work their butts off putting it all back together so they can rape it again next administration. It happens over and over. Like destroy the place having a party and let the hired help clean it up.
Republicans have become a cult and cult members only accept what the leader tells them. There are plenty of republican congressmen who don't like trump but they are terrified of defying him because of what the cult will do to them. We aren't dealing with reasonable people.
Michael D., just because a group believes something does not mean they are right or that they need to be coddled because they didn't get everything they want through the media. They have gotten a lot. The media really did coddle Trump for decades. If they need conservative TV and film, there is plenty of it all over the place. The "Law and Order" type shows are very conservative for the most part. The truth is, most people don't want to see what they have seen forever, particularly young people. They want new and interesting and that is what TV, film, and other media have tried to provide, but the conservatives supposedly hate it and don't even watch. They also want books they have never read banned because it helps them feel important. I think Republicans in general are unhappy they didn't get everything they thought they were entitled to and want to make everyone else feel as miserable as they have decided to be. It is hard to reach a whole group of people who hates everyone who might be seen as having more than they have. They vote for candidates who seem to have contempt for them because they do so little to help, but keep getting reelected anyway while they blame Democrats and others for their woes. Reality just isn't part of their lives which makes them fodder for the current Republicans who seem to value cheating, lying, deception, and lack of integrity more than anything else. How sad for all of us.
RS
I totally agree that because a group believes something that does not mean they are right or need to be coddled.
I remember back in 2003 during the run up to the Iraq War most of us believed that Iraq had WMD's. It turns out that the President and leaders on both parties as well as the media were lying to us. The media in particular failed in their duty to more unbiasedly validate what the administration was saying. They failed. (Read Chomskys book on 9-11)
Trumps supporters believe lies they were told by the media they consume. No different than i believed lies about WMD's because the NYT and CNN told me it was true as did leaders from my own party.
Americans can and frequently are duped by the media they watch.
It is easy to generalize about people that are being duped by the media they watch.
Hating them does not make things better. Finding common ground does make things better.
I was misinformed during the Iraq war. I am glad the nation that was not misinformed did not turn on my and try to minimize me.
I never believed in WMD because there were plenty of sources telling us it wasn't true. Even the weapons inspectors said it wasn't true.
I truly that that is the case. Angry their life didn’t or isn’t turning out the way they want
Bullshyt. I have done nothing to get anyone to support trump's big lie. I will not be blamed for something I did not do.
Nor should you be blamed for something you didn’t do...I agree 100%! I bet Trump felt the same way about the Russia situation when it’s been proven it was HRC and the DNC all along. Really sucks when people blatantly lie about you just to make themselves look better, huh?
That’s the way any game is played. When you win, great for you. When you loose, you loose. Better luck next time. You don’t blame the scoreboard for cheating to make you lose. You don’t blame the press for publishing the results of the game showing that you lost. Put in some more practice and try again. Only little babies because of their immaturity blame someone else for a loss.
Tell that to Hillary.
Hillary Clinton’s concession speech:
Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.
But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together, this vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.
(APPLAUSE)
I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.
We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.
Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don’t just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.
(APPLAUSE)
Now — and let me add, our constitutional democracy demands our participation, not just every four years but all the time. So let’s do all we can to keep advancing the causes and values we all hold dear; making our economy work for everyone not just those at the top, protecting our country and protecting our planet and breaking down all the barriers that hold any American back from achieving their dreams.
CLINTON: We’ve spent a year and a half bringing together millions of people from every corner of our country to say with one voice that we believe that the American dream is big enough for everyone — for people of all races and religions, for men and women, for immigrants, for LGBT people, and people with disabilities. For everyone.
(APPLAUSE)
So now, our responsibility as citizens is to keep doing our part to build that better, stronger, fairer America we seek. And I know you will.
I am so grateful to stand with all of you. I want to thank Tim Kaine and Anne Holton for being our partners on this journey.
(APPLAUSE)
It has been a joy getting to know them better, and it gives me great hope and comfort to know that Tim will remain on the front lines of our democracy representing Virginia in the Senate.
(APPLAUSE)
To Barack and Michelle Obama, our country owes you an enormous debt of gratitude.
(APPLAUSE)
We — we thank you for your graceful, determined leadership that has meant so much to so many Americans and people across the world.
And to Bill and Chelsea, Mark, Charlotte, Aidan, our brothers and our entire family, my love for you means more than I can ever express. You crisscrossed this country on our behalf and lifted me up when I needed it most — even four-month-old Aidan who traveled with his mom.
I will always be grateful to the creative, talented, dedicated men and women at our headquarters in Brooklyn and across our country.
(APPLAUSE)
You poured your hearts into this campaign. For some of you who are veterans, it was a campaign after you had done other campaigns. Some of you, it was your first campaign. I want each of you to know that you were the best campaign anybody could have ever expected or wanted.
(APPLAUSE)
And to the millions of volunteers, community leaders, activists and union organizers who knocked on doors, talked to neighbors, posted on Facebook, even in secret, private Facebook sites…
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
… I want everybody coming out from behind that and make sure your voices are heard going forward.
(APPLAUSE)
To everyone who sent in contributions as small at $5 and kept us going, thank you. Thank you from all of us.
And to the young people in particular, I hope you will hear this. I have, as Tim said, spent my entire adult life fighting for what I believe in. I’ve had successes and I’ve had setbacks. Sometimes, really painful ones. Many of you are at the beginning of your professional public and political careers. You will have successes and setbacks, too.
This loss hurts, but please never stop believing that fighting for what’s right is worth it.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: It is — it is worth it.
(APPLAUSE)
And so we need — we need you to keep up these fights now and for the rest of your lives.
And to all the women, and especially the young women, who put their faith in this campaign and in me, I want you to know that nothing has made me prouder than to be your champion.
(APPLAUSE)
Now, I — I know — I know we have still not shattered that highest and hardest glass ceiling, but some day someone will and hopefully sooner than we might think right now.
(APPLAUSE)
And — and to all the little girls who are watching this, never doubt that you are valuable and powerful and deserving of every chance and opportunity in the world to pursue and achieve your own dreams.
Finally…
(APPLAUSE)
Finally, I am so grateful for our country and for all it has given to me. I count my blessings every single day that I am an American. And I still believe as deeply as I ever have that if we stand together and work together with respect for our differences, strength in our convictions and love for this nation, our best days are still ahead of us.
(APPLAUSE)
Because, you know — you know, I believe we are stronger together and we will go forward together. And you should never, ever regret fighting for that. You know, scripture tells us, “Let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due season, we shall reap if we do not lose heart.”
So my friends, let us have faith in each other, let us not grow weary, let us not lose heart, for there are more seasons to come. And there is more work to do.
I am incredibly honored and grateful to have had this chance to represent all of you in this consequential election.
May God bless you and may God bless the United States of America.
Thank you for reprinting this heartfelt conciliation speech. So very different from 2020 or even 2022.
Twice in this speech she mislabeled our form of government. The United States of America is a Constitutional Republic. If you go back to the day we were founded by the forefathers all the proof is there. We are not a Democracy. If you understand the differences in these forms of government it really helps to clear things up.
.You are correct, Will. This is a Constitutional Republic. However, the terms have been so misused for at least 300 years, and Civics is not taught in schools, so many people don't know that in a Democracy, every citizen (originally male citizen) votes directly in a forum, on any proposed law. Like Communism this only works in very small societies. In Democracies a few thousand, in Communistic, less than one hundred. What we have today is a Constitutional, Representative, Republic, which only works well, IF every Citizen (born or naturalized) stays informed and votes in every election. The more people we have the mentally lazier some get. It becomes too much of a task to inform oneself, and even more tiresome to vote. Education might help, but only if it was standard throughout the country. How to instill a sense of duty, honor, and loyalty to one's governing body is even more difficult. (Just look at Bezos, Musk, and Trump, who are loyal and honorable ONLY to themselves)
I agree with everything except the last sentence. I would say they are more loyal to $.
You got me there LOL
Symantec’s
https://www.dictionary.com/e/democracy-vs-republic/
republic noun
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re·pub·lic | \ ri-ˈpə-blik \
Definition of republic
1a(1) : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
(2) : a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
b(1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law
(2) : a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
c : a usually specified republican government of a political unit
the French Fourth Republic
2 : a body of persons freely engaged in a specified activity
the republic of letters
3 : a constituent political and territorial unit of the former nations of Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union, or Yugoslavia
Symantec’s matter!
😂
Not accepting the results of a legitimate election to the “worst candidate ever” (Trump’s reference to Biden), initiating a coup and continually state that the election was rigged stolen from you, even though every sane person in your universe has repeatedly and explicitly renounced that BS and losing over 50 Court cases attempting to prove it… MATTERS!
Democratic Republic and Democracy have been used interchangeably for numerous years in the US, albeit not necessarily entirely accurate. But denigrating Hillary (whom I personally cannot stand) for utilizing a term that has been accepted for many decades is absolutely absurd.
Get over yourself.
Thank you, Todd, I hope Will reads this
But she and her constituents have claimed a stolen election. Also Stacey Abrams.
Post a legitimate article attesting to this
Till that article materializes, here's one that's related: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/18/us/womens-march-russia-trump.html
As Ronald Regan use to say, "Now there you go again." You are making allegations that you cannot prove. Has Abrams and Clinten currently going on Television claiming that their election was rigged or stolen as Trump continues to say about his election? She may not have conceded her loss, but Trump and his followers like parrots, continue to repeat what their owner says, yet they have not been able to prove any of Trump's allegations. Some of Trumps followers were even emboldened to take action that could be called traitorous.
2000 miles proves without the shadow of a doubt that the election was stolen. Trump owns no one in this MAGA movement. He only puts out info and leaves it up to the American people to do research and see for themselves. Some of us are just quicker on the uptake then others.
2000 Mules*
You’re on the wrong site.
Excellent point. And one most people on this board can't accept even though it is true
Also Stacey Abrams did not accept her defeat.
Nor should she.. Her opponent literally rigs elections
So wait! You’re saying Republicans rig elections for sure verified but Democrats don’t?
I am not saying that Republicans rig elections. Numerous courts are ruled that Republicans rig elections. GOP states have been found guilty of illegal gerrymandering far more than Dem states.
And Yes, the creep Abrams is running against is literally the guy in Georgia that is trying to rig the election.
WASHINGTON — Since January, judges in Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and Ohio have found that Republican legislators illegally drew those states’ congressional maps along racial or partisan lines, or that a trial very likely would conclude that they did."
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/08/us/elections/gerrymandering-maps-elections-republicans.html
Republicans do just that. And their voters are not bothered with it in the least.
What are you going to do abut that?
Obviously a rhetorical question - but we could, nonetheless, make light of the situation, e.g.: why can't we just make them sign a loyalty oath? Grover Norquist would have them do it...
= D
Rishi, maybe we could make it a big deal, a public signing ceremony that is covered by the local media. Anyone who does not sign should be disqualified from running or just ignored by the media.
RC
How do "we" make "them" sign a loyalty oath.
Grover controlled donations they would get from a number of Koch brother funded Pacs. That is how "he" got "them" to sign a loyalty oath?
Mike: Government can constitutionally require loyalty oaths of public employees, but the wording of the oath is all-important. To survive constitutional muster, the oath must specifically define and punish behavior that constitutes a clear and present danger to a substantial government interest.
It may not infringe on First or Fourteenth Amendment rights.
Employment may not be conditioned on an oath that one has not engaged in, or will not engage in, protected speech activities.
Employment may not be conditioned on an oath denying past or abjuring future associational activities protected by the Constitution.
An oath must not be so vague that persons of ordinary intelligence must guess at its meaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty_oath
I understand the process. My question is more like “why make the effort?
All you will do is give the right more fodder to take down democracy and the chances of success without yrs of organizing a coalition give them a new issue while we get nothing
I understand the intent. Strategically, it seems there are other things we should invest our energy on to get Americans to vote Democratic
Only kidding - of course... but no strategy is without risks: true, there is some irony given that "liberal" values suggest not demanding public pledges of loyalty... but the idea of rejecting not-really-close election results - which no international organization would be willing to declare contestable - does seem *so* outside the norm that even the risk of a bully-pulpit being afforded is probably worth taking (as it further marginalizes what amounts to anarchy - or worse).
PS: Elected officials should feel a duty to the office; there should not need to be any threat to person/livelihood (let alone an oath) for someone to do their job! (Why campaign for office otherwise?)
I seem to remember when Hillary lost people were blocking traffic on freeways and major streets in protest. We all know if the midterm elections are won by Republicans, the Democrats will, break store windows tear up businesses, loot and attack people and all the other stuff they do when they don’t like something.
I remember a dignified Secretary of State Hillary Clinton going before the news media and making a lovely, and it had to be difficult, concession speech congratulating Ex Pres DJT on his win and wishing him well.
I have to say they're not little babies. It's all about the money. They have to be above the human world. Trump proves it. When global climate change really kicks in who's going to survive? The rich.
Not all about the money. Many of them rise to the call to their collective racist subconscious.
Check out Youngstown, Friday night. Seig Heil!
"
"Donald Trump has gone full QAnon. As he spoke during a rally for Ohio Republican candidates on Saturday, a soundtrack associated with the conspiracy theory played. That elicited one-armed salutes — another QAnon symbol — from many attendees.
The display bore an uncanny resemblance to the infamous Nazi salute. The delusional incitement and zombie-like response should put to rest the notion that President Biden (or anyone) should be “reaching out” to these people. They are unreachable, and pretending otherwise misleads voters."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/19/trump-ohio-rally-qanon-media/?fb_news_token=kqPnHSJALsA0H354YI%2Fc2A%3D%3D.JJq6EjZp0kk%2FtNstaUFalK9pEkt%2FPZfcwLQj5T%2BHwM2D2GDBJ0e4xPUpTVTda0hJiUBM1a%2B6Ru4oUWrJLyh5kBnff2nan%2BKIcusEDeUmWBnf2Rri8W46xHckY5%2FXn9X5e%2FryWviKVVD6sroyzUDPsuwvJFfQ82Q4xK6TsS3UNQrKdKF0Nu3w61EJLLj8kdnUuWZdbxetveUefOqWovqWewRXoUerkruhzQOucOI%2Bj4TvsrN5mIjbW6nLAY0xcs40WQWqZM5ZPSJoIW8tgSxsdgsrDvCQvJMl4miuoBJ2XPBaGcpD62qGh6XgS0xdrha0ldaNhjMGLlG5qjRyCKKRfi0WykZtFCzEBqYw1i3xjI0%3D&fbclid=IwAR1S519G-q8T5QhqDNWkhZZfu091Jp-zK3ZBcvaYbV_bmxQjjMwj9zsoeoE
Allowing a criminal to hold rallies should be the biggest crime of all!
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. I’m not buying into the newest conspiracy on the left.
The media should be talking about unions organizing and Americas declining life expectancy rate. About Monopolies and about what it will really take to bring manufacturing back to this country.
Investigate Trump? Sure, he’s probably a crook. But the amount of media attention is intentional to keep is distracted
Michael D Your ignorance precedes you! But you clarify that ignorance in your comments. Apparently you live with your head deeply buried in the sand. Did you watch ANY J6 hearings?
Do you hear TFG speak? He’s a deranged lunatic and has been called out my numerous psychiatrists as exhibiting narcissistic snd delusional behavior. But to you it’s a conspiracy on the Left. 😂😂 Good try but you’re not fooling anyone here!
SR
I am not denying that he is a deranged lunatic. I am sure he is. I think his supporters would agree with that analysis of him.
And no i did not watch any of the J6 hearings.
I am not defending him. He almost certainly has broken the law and should be punished.
That is not my point.
My point is that the media attention to this is an intentional distraction for the public to insure that the media is not reporting on issues that matter to the vast majority of Americans like health care, higher wages, better jobs and less control by monopolies over how we live our lives or what we do for income.
The media is all but ignoring these more important issues and the result is that their advertisers needs are being met because their lobbyists can tell law makers how to vote and voters will not punish them.
On top of that you want to put a guy in jail who has 30% approvel from the American people. Good luck with that. Is it worth it? Maybe maybe not. I don't care. I care more about the media inspiring Americans to vote in primary elections for law makers that are going to make our lives better. These hearings don't make my life our yours as good as higher wages, better health care and less control of our lives by Corporate America
I can't say I "liked" this, but someone called it to my attention yesterday, and, combined with Ken Burns film on Sunday night, scared me deeply. The Daily Kos had a video with Trump speaking to this awful, sentimental music, and I must say his gestures mirrored the Fuhrer's.
Daniel, your assessment of the Q people is so right. It is scary and I believe you are also right that they cannot be reached. They are so desperate to belong to something, they will accept anything because it makes them feel special even if it is crazy and is making them crazy. Donald Trump is facing dementia and his speeches are more and more disjointed and pathetic. He has been moving into it for years, but grabbing onto Q has given him something his wandering brain can focus his speeches on. "Lock her up" now only has marginal impact, so his handlers knew he needed a new theme. He now has it, and he was preaching to the choir last Saturday. They loved it because their savior is now on board with them.
I was horrified to learn, (but not surprised) that an Evangelical preacher has written a book claiming that Trump is the Messiah, the Second Coming of Jesus! He states that the founding fathers came to the US together as pilgrims and landed in New York where they consecrated this country as a Christian nation on the site the Twin Towers were later built. The ignorance and insanity of this stuff is so mind boggling I'm just flabbergasted. Are people really this stupid? Do they believe this nonsense? Is ANY lie accepted as the truth, no matter how outrageous? Can rationality compete with insanity?
There’s a lot of mental illness in this country. It’s shocking. The more I learn about history the more shocked I am. But that doesn’t mean they’ll prevail. We have tools too.
Most MAGA supporters DO NOT believe that Trump is a “messiah”. I certainly don’t not do any of the people I surround myself with. We are Patriotic Americans. Most of us veterans. We want the best for our country and don’t want our tax dollars laundered all over the world all Willy nilly when there are veterans sleeping on the streets and committing suicide at a rate of 22 per day because the government used them up and threw them away. Biden is as demented as they get and none of us approve of his criminal ways. HRC is a murderer and as evil as it gets. Trump is the lesser of the evils in my mind and he understands how to run a business which is what this country is since it’s incorporation in 1871 thanks to the evil disgusting administration in power at the time...look it up, it’s all there.
Will, I am very glad that you do not think Trump is God, and accept you are right that most others don't. But he does allow the free brochures stating he is "The Christ" to be handed out at his rallies, has said he is "The King of Israel," and "The Chosen One." Can you still think he is rational, honest? As to how we treat vets: I knew a very fine young man who committed suicide while in the army, and I know homeless vets and have volunteered at vet's organizations. I couldn't agree with you more that our vets are treated horribly and deserve so much more. As to the rest of your allegations, I can't agree. I an a retired tech writer and professional researcher, and have long done my own research on political issues and conspiracy theories. You don't have to rely on any news media. You can find the truth for yourself online, and I hope you will. Regarding Trump's business acumen, I hope you take note of the indictment in New York today. Trump is a crook, he has always been a crook. Through family connections who knew Trumps business dealings in New York through their profession, I have heard about his mob associations, laundering money for Russians, hiring illegal aliens, causing honest small businessmen to go bankrupt when he refused to pay, for the last 40 years. Please do independent research online. The truth is there: Trump is a failed buisnessman, crook, and mentally ill. Support any other conservative before you give him your vote
I'm betting that the Youngstown event was so over the top that some of the cult will see that they have been suckers.
https://lincolnproject.us/sucker/
I wouldn't bet on it.
There is alway a doomsday prophecy looming. Has been since the 70’s oil crisis. Every ten years there’s some new big time issue that’s gonna destroy the world. Please explain if there’s such a big climate crisis that you’re boy Al Gore is so worried about, why does he run all over the place in his private jet which is a huge carbon footprint? He spent $180,000 in fuel for that thing in a couple of months. Why does Greta Doomsburg fly all over the world first class if she really cares about the environment? The answer to a crisis if you want to help is to start with yourself and lead by example. Perhaps they should start doing that if they want the rest of us to believe their BS!
Oh Col Barb, you hit that nail squarely. The problem is that a lot of Republicans have reverted to childhood behaviors and like a spoilt toddler can't admit they have lost. Perhaps their opponents reminding them that their speech and behavior is like that of a toddler, might cause them to stand up and try being an adult. Nah! I think the Trumpers and Trumpettes have embraced their childishness just as Baby Donnie has.
A child given no boundaries will misbehave more and more frantically trying to find them.
Combined this tendency with that of a crook who never gets caught and gets sloppy. Trump is rushing towards his doom. The amazing part is how many he takes with him. 
Off-topic. On this anniversary of this newsletter I want to say as I did at its inception, thank you Dr Reich for your rather amazing *continued* public service here, with MoveOn, and with Inequality Media, at an age and after so many years already given that most people would quietly retire.
We’ll stated! Professor Reich, you have sustained us with your wisdom.
Bennett, thanks for sending that note to Dr. Reich. I agree that he has done and is still doing a tremendous service to this country when many would have gone silent. I really appreciate this thread and Dr. Reich's commentary.
Prof.Reich and Prof.Kirchner are phenomenal! My absolute favorites!!!
So does that mean just because he is an old white man he isn’t a racist? 
Oh my goodness, your cancel culture is showing. Why do the progressives always call Republican old white men racist and supremacist, but not Democrat old white men? The reason progressives don’t like Donald Trump is because he exposed the Marxism that is prevalent in that party and that’s why over half of America will vote for him again. And by the way, we are a republic. A republic is a form of government in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives. Which Is why our founders put the voting laws for each state under the direction of the state representatives and thankfully not in the hands of the federal government.
👏👏👏
Prof. Reich, you write "Candidates who refuse to commit to being bound by the results of elections should be presumed disqualified to hold public office. " Agreed. Of course. But what say you to this: "Candidates who refuse to commit to achieving an authentic democracy wherein women and men have equal rights should be presumed disqualified to hold public office"? This week is Constitution Week--and women still aren't in the Constitution.
Thanks for a reply. ~RD
Absolutely agree AND "old (and young) white men" are afraid to let women out of their perceived power and control that poor wages and lots of kids ensures ...at least in their minds. I'm tired of being a second class citizen!
Hey Jeannie! I, too am sick of being a second-class citizen with fewer rights than the child-men who are running things now. They think they have the right by virtue of their whiteness and maleness to control our bodies and what happens to us in society while making sure we have no ability to do the same to them. I don't want to control those child-men. I just want to have the right for myself and all women to make our own choices, to not have to experience sexual harassment, to have children or not, to have decent medical care that is based on our physical needs, not what some poorly trained doctor thinks are our needs, and more. If a candidate can't swear to support my rights, he or she has no business in any position of power.
RD, I like your idea that there should be certain principles every candidate should be held to, some very basic ones, equal rights, full citizenship of women, and not permitting insurrectionists to hold office of any kind would be a good set.
RD
Might i recommend that you consider reading Jamal Greene's excellent book "How Rights Went Wrong"
In it he posits with strong and persuasive evidence (He is a legal scholar at Yale) that using SCOTUS to get "rights" built into what should be simple laws has created a situation where we put high incentives on politicians and voters not to support a democracy and instead to support authoritarian rule of law.
Woman are seeing more and more equality year by year. Is changing the constitution going to help any more than getting abortion made legal has protected a woman's right to choose?
Constitution language may not matter when the document contains one's own noun and pronoun, but if language truly doesn't matter, change it to eliminate reference to males. Make it generic.
Mo, I like the idea of fixing the language to be either inclusive or totally non-gendered. Organizations do it all the time. Just that change, cutting out the male words in our Constitution and laws could make a huge difference. We need a group to get that going.
Mo777Jet Agree!
Why?
It gives woman not one more ounce of freedom and provides the Conservative with a talking point to hammer 'democrats" with.
Might as well just run on the Defund the Police platform...
I think the Dems can't afford another "marketing" blunder that the GOP can use to hammer us over the head with. Sort of self defeating.
No reply. I doubt I could illustrate the problem more clearly than to ask "why" inclusion of women in our Constitution matters and refer to it as a "marketing blunder".
MO
When you live in a democracy "marketing" policy matters.
I gave the analogy of Defund the police. The police across the country have done some horrific things. "Defund the Police" was a terrible way to market the needed reform. The result is that even liberals no longer want to make the types of reforms that can increase justice to people who have been denied it for too long by too many police departments.
Yes, how you market something matters.
Voters have experienced 40yrs of wage declines, they live in the only wealthy democracy in the world that makes they get access to health insurance from their employer... Monopolies are controlling peoples lives and making them worse.
With that back drop is getting a constitutional amendment to put the words woman in the constitution something progressives should prioritize at the cost of any of these other Problems that government can solve?
I agree with most of what is said here. However, I take issue with Bush v Gore in 2000. This election was indeed stolen. Al Gore won the popular vote and thus won the election regardless of the Supreme Court’s decision. Then Florida Secretary of State Katharine Harris admitted that Al Gore would’ve had the electoral college as well if the entire state of Florida had been re-canvassed. An election that was decided by a politically slanted Supreme Court is unacceptable. Especially considering the shenanigans of the W. Bush campaign. This is why the ‘would be’ W. Bush administration will always be tainted by illegitimacy. It’s one thing to graciously concede in a free and fair election. It’s totally another to concede in a free and fair election in which the winning candidate was declared the loser due to nefarious political activity from the opposition.
Joseph H. I agree totally, and it is because of these crimes against Democracy that we face the situation we are in today. The 'Justices' on our present 'Supreme' Court should be removed because they are illegitimates. What happened with Bush v. Gore 2000 was a slippery slope that has slid our nation downhill to what we have today: Traitors and Seditionists wanting to take over our country, and actually openly running for office to do just that.
Laurie, I am so sad to acknowledge that you are so right about the attempts to undermine our government by traitors and rich white men who think they are owed something they have not earned. There are 3 members of the Supreme Court who should be impeached for lying to Congress. It seems that when conservatives/Republicans lie to Congress, it is just another day's work. An entity that has little validity as a worthy arbiter of who should be on the Supreme Court, The Federalist Society, hand-picked conservative ideologue nominees and a king wannabee, Mitch McConnell pushed them through, knowing he was making things up as he went along, but not caring about the results. That man to me is a traitor and should have been forced out of office, but alas, there is no real mechanism to do that. Heck, we can't even get the members of Congress who tried to overthrow our government out of Congress. That should have happened 20 months ago. We need to fix this!
I agree with you but it was all done within the laws. The Constitution is vague enough that people like McConnell can manipulate it. They are attempting to do what has been done in the past, for example, in Germany. They take over legally and then change the rules.
Joseph, The same thing happened in 2016. We had foreign interference on behalf of the candidate who lost the popular vote but the one who got the office was permitted to continue to claim he had really won the popular vote. The media went along and there were few challenges. That set the stage for what happened in 2020. Trump and Kump do not forget what worked (even if Donald himself doesn't remember). They planted the seeds in 2016 and watched it grow in 2020. We're still dealing with the weeds trying to take over our government.
Ruth, Precisely!
I made this point also. It discourages voters when the verified loser can walk off with the election because of those overseeing the results want it stopped.
So you just made the case for Trump by using Bush v Gore. It’s the same thing no matter how you look at it. We need to verify every ballot and vet every voter. That is the only way to insure the elections are fair and honest. People will cheat given half the chance ESPECIALLY when so much is at stake. The only difference between Bush v Gore and Trump v Biden is that Trump didn’t concede the election. He didn’t concede because he had PROOF that the Biden campaign cheated. I have seen the proof. Any rational human with two brain cells to rub together once presented this proof can only draw one conclusion which is that TRUMP WON.
If you’ve seen this proof, show it to me. Show it to us. Trump had PROOF that the Biden campaign cheated?? Where is it? Why hasn’t he presented it? Any rational human being with two brain cells to rub together should have the evidence when making such a claim. 60 electoral fraud cases were brought before the courts and every one of them was thrown out. Why? Because there WAS NO evidence of fraud. This is in no way like Bush v Gore. Why? Because there WAS evidence in that case.
Again, show us the proof you have that Trump won the election. Take all the time you need.
2000 Mules https://www.google.com/search?kgmid=/g/11qbcvx7yb&hl=en-US&q=2000+Mules&kgs=dddc778c3378d091&shndl=17&source=sh/x/kp/osrp/3&entrypoint=sh/x/kp/osrp
Dinesh D’Souza is a known conspiracy theorist with no credibility. 2000 Mules has been totally debunked. It plainly says this in the link you sent. I’m asking for proof from a credible source. Show us if you can.
I have not been informed that it was debunked and BTW the CIA invented the term conspiracy theorist to devalue the ideology of patriotic Americans who didn’t go along with their agenda...try harder. Perhaps you can post a link to the proof that 2000 Mules was debunked. Don’t give me some Snopes crap drummed up by two hookers and a crackhead either. If your truth is viable, it will hold up and change my mind. I find surveillance camera footage to be pretty damning evidence. It hold up in a court of law so why wouldn’t it work here?
It says in the link which YOU sent that 2000 Mules has been debunked. Can you read? It’s you who needs to try harder. No amount of truth will change a mind like yours. You’re so far down the Q-Anon rabbit hole that you’re totally unsalvageable. This site is for constructive debate. It’s not for people who spew gibberish. This means it’s not for you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/18/us/womens-march-russia-trump.html
Show us the proof. Giuliani and Powell couldn't produce it. Perhaps you know something they don't.
i could not agree more
the irony that struck me hard is that many of these republicans in congress were elected in elections they say were fraudulent. shouldn't they then disqualify themselves from serving as being elected in a bogus election means your victory is bogus as well?
Yeah Gary, one might think that, but logic is not part of the Republican repetoir. Like little kids, they pick and choose what they will do and agree to with no actual reason because well, why? They all need to be called out as liars. Maybe we could have a liars list put out that included the names of anyone who does not agree to fair election results. We need to call those guys what they are, liars. OK, we need to use other words too, fakes, insurrectionists, traitors"
Ruth, as a fellow American...I have to say I love you and your enthusiasm. I just wish you would use a different tactic then calling people names. Do you have proof of these accusations?
I couldn't agree more.
A candidate can't expect to benefit if s/he wins, but be free to ignore the results if s/he doesn't.
Why not. The former President of the United States said it is okay. A huge amount of Americans believe him.
You are right. We do live in a semi democracy which allows authoritarians to take over legally and then change the rules. It has certainly happened in the past.
We do not live in a Democracy...we live in a Constitutional Republic.
Notice I said semi-democracy. I know it's a republic and I know why Madison wanted a republic.
On 538, I've been noticing that in OH, from 2021, Ryan solidly led Vance by 1 point, with 27% undecided. A couple of days before May 1, 2022, the poll flipped to Vance with a 0.8 point lead an 23% undecided. Vance's lead held and widened to 2.6 points until the 4th of July, when the poll flipped back to Ryan, who took a 2.7 point lead on 17.5% undecided. However, although that lead has held, it's volatile, with respect to the generally decreasing percentage of undecided voters. Ryan's lead widened to a high of 4.5 points, but then abruptly dropped to a 1 point lead on 12.4% undecided. I think that's when Vance began his advertising blitz. That lead fell to 0.6 points on 10.2% undecided at the beginning of September. As of the 18th, Ryan's lead fell a bit to 0.5% points, but the undecided increased to 11.2% undecided. Vance's attack on Ryan over fighting and defunding police - which is a lie, because Ryan's been attacking institutional racism, and has publicly announced he's against defunding the police - and taxing "the little guy" - another lie, since the tax increases have been generally on wealthy and very wealthy - seems to have been effective. Vance is also promoting the myth that 87,000 IRS agents have been hired to come after said "little guy." Ryan needs to start attacking Vance as a bigoted liar in service to a bigoted liar, who leads a party of bigoted liars - which does not include that faction of Republicans they've already designated as RINOs, to be driven from the party - among his other obvious character flaws. That 11.2% will have a decisive impact in November, should they >all< do anything other than opt out of voting.
How can so many people be undecided? Don’t they have any principles? (That’s a rhetorical question.)
I don't think it's because they don't have principles. I think it's simply that they have no idea what the hell to believe! That's been ol' Tweety's objective all along, and you >know< I'm right about that. (An assertion I rarely make. But I know you have wits, and I'm confident you'll agree.) >That's< why he just >loves< the undereducated.
You mean because they can’t figure out who, if anyone, is telling the truth?
Something to consider, as well. That's >exactly< the strategy he has typically, and currently using with regard to the legal system - trying to reduce the whole debate to an exercise in he said/she said - where facts are sparse and claims are overwhelming. ol' Tweety's secret motto is probably: "You can't produce a fact I can't controvert." It appears - for the moment - that his "special master" sees right through it.
Which is hilarious. Hoisted by his own petard.
>Exactly!<
Argh.
https://open.substack.com/pub/magaunderground/p/killed-for-being-republican?r=b8q4p&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
When you discuss principles, don’t forget that MAGA doesn’t do stuff like this. You guys are never gonna get your way until you stop violence against someone with different views.
For your edification: https://youtu.be/MNSLCZZQEO8
German was an investigative journalist, and he did >exactly< what investigative journalists do - and paid the price all self-respecting investigative journalists are prepared to pay. Only lyin' FOX is asking Carlston-style if he was a Republican. German wrote articles critical of Telles' practices. Telles was the target of German's investigation, who was subsequently rejected by the voters. Law enforcement caught Telles almost immediately, and he will face the consequences in front of a judge and jury. Unlike MAGA-types, who rally around their own known criminals, Telles will face the noose without the assistance or support of Democrats. So it isn't >really< about violence against someone having different views. That's >your< lie. Remember that next time you help build a makeshift gallows on the Capitol grounds, and make sure to include a noose for yourself. After all, where you go one, you >will< go all.
I doubt you'll see any Democrats involved with this, either: https://policetribune.com/man-accused-of-murdering-18-year-old-in-politically-motivated-attack-gets-released-from-jail/
Sounds like an obnoxious boy scared a paranoid and got from a paranoid what they have to give when they're scared. Sort of what those 3 paranoid old boys who murdered that black man down in Georgia did. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/us/gregory-mcmichael-travis-mcmichael-william-bryan.html But on further thought, it sounds a bit more like that Ohio boy who drove his car into peaceful counter-protesters at the Nazi-driven "Unite the Right" rally in Charlotte, don'ch think? : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottesville_car_attack
I'm sure a judge & jury of his peers will get to the bottom of it - whatever the outcome. And it'll be without the assistance of or interference by Democrats.
Maybe the lack of mainstream coverage of the ND incident has nothing to do with politics. What if it was only polit-psychos would be interested on such an incident happening between an unknown idiotic kid and an unknown idiotic paranoid in nowhere North Dakota. Otherwise, the mainstream didn't carry it because it was of interest to >nobody<, otherwise. Mainstream's there to entertain it's viewers - just like FOX. Mainstream is only interested in making money, caters to a wide mainstream audience, and bored or disinterested viewers don't make them money - it doesn't mean mainstream is particularly liberal. Mainstream's lack of interest only suggests to me that the only way it could be of interest to >anybody< is if the news outlet makes its money by promoting it's own political narrative to a specific kind of audience it also cultivates - or "grooms," to use the kind of language your ilk likes to use. Maybe mainstream will eventually feature it in something like Dateline, or 20/20. I've frequently come across things I've never heard about, the odd times I've dipped into TV journals like that. Broadcast needs to observe FCC regulations with respect to what it broadcasts. FOX only broadcasts infomercials on broadcast, complete with content disclaimers! They only shovel the $hi7 they shovel on cable - outside of FCC regulations, particularly with regard to fact-based truth.
Heres what astounds me: millions of people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 then voted for Trump 2016. They couldn't have had any clear concept of who these men were, what their beliefs and principles were. I am guessing they were just swayed by Trumps rhetoric.
But what about his rhetoric? His white supremacism doesn’t fit with voting for Obama. I would like to see an analysis of this. I’m not questioning you. I’m wondering about how their brains work—or don’t.
I don't know how to copy a link, but I will refer you to Wikipedia article "Obama -Trump Voters". I have read about this phenomenon in several articles, and it just seems to show the lack of understanding, or rationality? of some voters.
Got it. My reading of this, and I’ll post an excerpt below, is that these people are extremely illogical and mixed up.
“Shortly before the 2016 election, The New York Times reported that Obama voters who planned to vote for Trump felt he embodied the "change" they had hoped for when they voted for Obama.[13] Multiple focus groups of Obama–Trump voters convened by the Roosevelt Institute and Democracy Corps in early 2017 showed that in general these voters wanted to change the status quo and had skeptical views of Congressional Republicans and their proposals. The same focus groups also indicated that these voters hoped then-President Trump would help reduce health care costs for working-class Americans, and that they were anxious about some immigrant groups.[14]”
Supposedly they’re economically liberal and socially conservative. How does that compute?
As a fellow Ohioan and activist, I couldn’t agree more!
All politics are local.
First, I bet every MAGA Ukrainian-Ohioan now supports Ryan. I'd hope that everyone of Slavic origin supports the Ukraine and knows that many Republicans stand with Putin.
Second, the image of those Nazi salutes in Youngstown has to move everyone who remembers WWII. I bet they're not showing it on Fax. Ryan has to get the word out. Many of the cult members at the Y-town rally were from out of state. The media can identify them. Ask whether Republicans approve. Besides Vance, Gym Jordan and other candidates were there. Were they saluting?
Third, De Wine wasn't there. Make sure that he repudiates 1. those Nazi salutes 2. the big lie.
Exactly what Nazi salute are you referring to? I watched the entire thing and not once did I see a Nazi salute. I assume you are referring to when the crowd held up one finger to represent we are one people, one nation together moving forward. Is that the Nazi salute you are clearly wrong about?
One finger---- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWF8iRCan7I
So you point out a satirical song as your proof? Are you serious?
....anyone can look at the videos.
Seig heil.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/18/us/womens-march-russia-trump.html
"Everyone who remembers WWII"—??? All 17? Hardly enough to form a Fox focus group. Korean War, maybe, although they were were far fewer. … MAGAts from out of state for sure, Youngstown being one narrow West Virginia panhandle away from western Pennsylvania. Not known previously as qAnon turf, I don't think. … Friend of mine back when was a psychiatric social worker in bible belt Ohio—about the only place in the U.S., she said, where hysterical paralysis was still commonly diagnosed.
I must be one of your 17. I was 6 when WWII started, 12 when it ended (I was a Canadian then), so I wasn't actually in battle, but 2 of my uncles were. I remember the war vividly, listened to the reports on radio, read the newspapers, had endless discussions with my father, wrote to my Uncle Archie, who was a medic, and avidly followed his every move on the maps. My most lasting memory was the Life magazine layout of pictures taken at the concentration camps, the stacks of emaciated bodies of the dead prisoners, and the equally emaciated bodies of those who lived. I also remember the precepts of fascism, it is one of the most insidious, disgusting, political systems I have heard of before or since. I realize Americans were taught to hate and fear Communism (a political system that has never existed, except in theory) For myself, authoritarianism (by any name they choose to call it) is the most fearsome system of all. That is what the trumpster is trying to foist on the United States. Due to the lack of political education (Civics) of the vast majority of American citizens, he darned near succeeded for four years and with the help of the Graham's, Hawley's, Cruz's and DeSantis' it could still happen.
I remember beginning and end too. My father, an American, was very much in it, but he didn't talk about it, so I won't either, nor use it as a springboard.
Good for you, neither of my uncles talked about their actual experiences either, except for incidents that were too well known and then only as what happened and was reported. My Uncle Archie, who was my Dad's younger brother, was on a hospital ship that was torpedoed in the Mediterranean, but that's all he ever said, he was on the ship and was rescued. I've always thought of WWII as the last real war; Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq, were all wars to strengthen some corporate hold, not to uphold the right of people to live their lives in peace and safety. I've always felt sorry for our troops who risked their lives and honor to support their Country, when what they were really supporting were corporate interests. Our government just lied to them.
Well said, Daniel
Undoubtedly, the orderly transfer of power is the lifeblood of democracy. Still, in my view, absent comprehensive federal voter protection legislation that deals with the complex challenges facing our voting systems today—specifically GOP controlled state legislatures changing state election rules to change who can be in charge, how votes are counted, and how they’re certified— perhaps our efforts at this moment are better served if we focus mainly on the necessary actions for protecting election integrity and for laying the groundwork for preserving representative government by popular consent.
Barbara Jo, Absolutely correct! We need to address the voting suppression and making voting fair and secure in every jurisdiction which cannot be tampered with by people with their own personal political aims. Then we need to address gerrymandering. No matter how one cuts it, gerrymandering is cheating! That's it and to pretend it is anything else is a lie!
Ruth, You’re absolutely right. We need federal safeguards that ensure all eligible votes are cast, counted correctly, and certified without interference and without their being diluted through partisan gerrymandering. Despite their failure, by 2 votes, to modify the filibuster to pass the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Act, still, I rely on Democrats to be our allies in preserving our democratic republic.
We do not live in a Democratic Republic. We live in a Constitutional Republic.
Will, Over time, aspects of our Republic have become increasing democratic. For example, in 1913, the 17th Amendment provided for the direct popular election of senators. Additionally, while initially state legislatures chose presidential electors in most states, states progressively changed to selection by popular election.
I agree. Reading some of the other comments this seems like a no-brainer. If you don't like the rules, then don't play the game. If you can't commit to the rules, then you shouldn't be in the game.
Maggie, you gave an excellent analogy. We have just entered football season. I can't imagine what would happen if players just decided they were not going to play by the rules or make up their own rules. They would be kicked out of the game and even dropped from the team. Maybe that is the analogy we can use to explain to election deniers. "You are trying to play the political game while making up the rules as you go along. Like in football, a player who does that would be kicked out of the game." Now, let's kick the deniers out, even off the team if they don't get with the rules.
Recall Trump's statement, also in late 2020: "If I lose, it's because the election was rigged."
Then why have an election? Just throw out the Constitution and appoint him dictator.
Which is exactly what he wants.
Not only does he want that. But his supporters want that too.
What role have liberals played in helping his voters chose Their Authoritarian over democracy?
Big sigh here. This is a really important and depressing question. I'm not sure "liberals" are exactly the problem. But I feel the Democratic party took a wrong turn under Bill Clinton when it somehow decided that it could do without the labor movement. This was reinforced under Obama who chose every single one of his economic advisors from the money insider classes from Wall Street and academia. Obama got a lot of support from unions. The implicit deal was that they were going to get card check off in return which would have made it easier to organize workplaces. But it never happened. In the absence of an organized commitment to working-class economics (and I am working class sitting at my computer!), it became very easy for the Republicans to turn working people against the Democrats.
I gave Biden campaign contributions in 2008 because I thought he was a better candidate than Hillary and Obama. Turned out I was right.
Obama was a HUGE disappointment. From taking the advice of Larry (I don't do infrastructure) Summers, to the ruination of the medical profession (don't get me started there).
The only thing Bill Clinton got right was to raise taxes. Everything else was a sellout to Wall Street, from NAFTA (the main beneficiaries of which, in addition to Wall Street, were the 6 richest families in Spain), to the monetization of the prisons, to the dissolution of Glass Stiegel with a POTUS EO (advised to do so by....drumroll..... Summers, Greenspan, and dopey Robert Rubin).
NAFTA, predictably, enraged the MAGA mob and gave us Trump. To see Clinton justify NAFTA to Zacharia on Sunday was nauseating. You can trade with rich countries on your border, like Canada, but if you eliminate tariffs on poor countries you get what Ross Perot predicted, a giant sucking noise as factories are shipped there.
Michael H
I totally agree with your analysis. Two questions.
1. I did not follow Biden back in 2008, but is it your view that his current performance is what he would have done back then? Or do you think he and his team have learned from the mistakes of Obama.
2. NAFTA ended my family business. So i am no friend of NAFTA. Cost 300jobs at our factory. On top of that, at the time i was convinced by people like Rush Limbaugh that NAFTA was going to be great. I got duped but i undestand better how media can get people to support policy that is rationally not in their best interest.
But is it not possible that NAFTA would have been far better if the employees that were impacted by it were taken care of with a far more generous transition package. Yrs of unemployment, health care, effective job training, relocation funds? And all of that funded by higher taxes on the people and companies that benefited in the long run from NAFTA.
Additionally those taxes could be used to help small businesses transition into new industries.
Europe sent just as many if not more jobs to Eastern Europe at the same time we were doing NAFTA. No one impacted by that trade had to go with out health care, or could not send their kids to university. There was highly effective job re skilling and plenty of unemployment insurance. All paid for by the rich people profiting by moving the jobs off shore
THoughts
reed joseph stiglitz
MS
I think i handed you a soft ball pitch there. You absolutely hit it out of the park.
You are totally right, it is not "liberals" that have let down the working class. It is MainStream Democrats that have let down the working class.
Solution: In 8yrs the TeaParty organized, protested and voted. The result was that by the end of the Obama Administration they had their guy in the White House. And by the time their guy left the White House they had taken over the GOP and are removing the Neoliberal (George Bush, Mitt Romney) wing of the party.
The "liberals" in the Democratic party need to do the same thing with our Neoliberal leaders and members of the Democratic party.
Until we do that the GOP will continue to be a legitimate threat to take back power and i dare say, this time they wont give it back.
Michael D - Did I mention that I'm Michael D. Shapiro?
No, it wasn’t any of that...it was blatant lying and cheating and the fact that Trump exposed it so the world could see it.
Michael D. The only role liberals have played is trying to trust the system that was carefully being undermined from within by Republicans who do not really believe in the United States of America, just their own power and ability to accumulate money and even more power. We do need to wake up now, though because those underminers are digging out the foundation at this point and soon we will have nothing to stand on if we don't act. They have taken over the Supreme Court, several federal courts, and many state legislatures, selecting and electing people who have no clue but know they want as much power and money as they can get. We have a lot of addicted Republicans to power and money which is a far more destructive drug than any opiate. We need a tough love intervention for them and us.
I think i heard the tough love intervention from Clinton in justifying his cruel cuts to the safety net and in laying the class room to prison incarceration state that started under him.
Tough love may or may not work with your kids. It does not work with 1/3 of the nation.
Finding common ground is far more likely to shift the destructive path Republican voters are putting us on with the people they are voting for. The majority of Dems support Government funded health care, $15 national min wage, higher taxes on the rich. So do the majority of GOP voters.
If we voters can start electing dems that will PUSH for these policies the GOP will rapidly lose voters. We saw it happen when Obama ran in 2008. Millions of Obama voters switched to Trump because he did not deliver on the promises he made on issues like these.
Leaders in the DEM party are failing to deliver on economic policy issues Dem and GOP voters want.
So what that means for GOP voters is that they might as well vote for the party that agrees with their identity politics. Obama showed them, the Dems wont give GOP voters what they want.
I see Biden actually trying to deliver on many of the promises but there is a reality to deal with. Republicans block vote to stop everything and then we have the Manchin/Sinema problem.
WC
A Presidents job is to lead. If Biden wants bills passed and he can't get Manchin and Sinema on board then he needs to push the bill to the public and in particular in their state.
You saw Trump do that with Republican voters and it worked. He got the voters to change their mind on issues like "stop the steal" and voters kicked law makers out that did not back him on his lie...
Leaders need to lead. Manchin and Sinima are not excuses for Biden not delivering. I think he does not deliver on issues he does not want to deliver on and then he blames Manchin and Sinema
Trump and Biden are in very different positions. First, the republican party is not a big tent and is very homogeneous. Democrats are very diverse. Trump has turned the republicans into a cult but he now frequently is following them rather than the other way. Trump isn't leading anymore but he is jumping in front. Did you see his last rally? He is now trying to lead QAnon but he can't. He can just adopt their craziness. All the republicans are terrified of their base. The democrats are not terrified of their base.
Also you have to follow the money. Manchin and Sinema have benefitted from republican fundraisers and are recipients of large donations. Biden would not be able to get West Virginians to go against Manchin. Sinema just doesn't seem to give a damn. She got what she came there for. I'm not sure how crazy Arizona is but we will find out in the next election.
Because no one could possibly vote for anyone else. Good grief.
Michael H. Trump had a sense that he lost the election, but it didn't fit with his world view that he can't lose at anything. He would love the idea of just appointing him dictator even though he has no idea what that would involve. He has a bunch of sycophants, though who will help him out, forming their own personal hatreds into actions Trump could and should take and Trump would do it because he is not really thinking clearly these days and for quite a while. We need the elections because that's how we can get rid of those dictator wannabees and their entourage.
I agree with your conclusions. Those candidates should be disqualified. There is no other
way to handle the “bad sportsmanship” of Trump and his flying monkeys.
I am using that term as a lead in to my comments.
Some years ago in an effort to understand people who voted for Trump, I picked a few ordinary Trumpers, not political figures, just people who made comments that would put them on the opposite side from me. I proceeded to read their Twitter bios and Twitter feeds.
This was not a scientific study, of course, but the ones I read had way more entries about sports than politics. Lots of info about teams, players, games, etc.
It occurs to me that sports analogies and discussions of sportsmanship might be used as a way to break through to some of the less crazy Trump crowd in terms of their pre-election denial.
(Trump himself is a notoriously poor sport who regularly cheats at golf. I read an article describing
how he asked his caddy to sneak out to move the ball of a 10 year old boy who had made a better shot than the Orange Spoil Sport.)
Anyway, regarding Vance and other GOP pre-election denier candidates:
If as he stepped up to the plate, a baseball player said that he will never accept the ruling of the umpire and, if he didn’t get to first base, it meant that the other team was cheating, that player would be immediately be put back on the bench and likely kicked off the team.
To be a player means agreeing to play by the rules in advance. The player may argue with the umpire,
but he still has to accept the umpire’s calls.
Trump has been a poor sport all his life. The pre-election denying candidates who he bullies and blesses are likewise poor sports who have no intentions of following the rules.
They should be kicked off the team, forfeit the signing bonus, take their ball and go home.
Additionally, I suggest reading Hillary Clinton’s concession speech, which follows my comments.
I’ve never been an admirer of Hillary, but what a contrast from Trump. It’s almost as if she knew what was to come.
Hillary’s concession speech:
Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.
But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together, this vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.
I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.
We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.
Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don’t just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.
Now — and let me add, our constitutional democracy demands our participation, not just every four years but all the time. So let’s do all we can to keep advancing the causes and values we all hold dear; making our economy work for everyone not just those at the top, protecting our country and protecting our planet and breaking down all the barriers that hold any American back from achieving their dreams.
We’ve spent a year and a half bringing together millions of people from every corner of our country to say with one voice that we believe that the American dream is big enough for everyone — for people of all races and religions, for men and women, for immigrants, for LGBT people, and people with disabilities. For everyone.
So now, our responsibility as citizens is to keep doing our part to build that better, stronger, fairer America we seek. And I know you will.
I am so grateful to stand with all of you. I want to thank Tim Kaine and Anne Holton for being our partners on this journey.
It has been a joy getting to know them better, and it gives me great hope and comfort to know that Tim will remain on the front lines of our democracy representing Virginia in the Senate.
To Barack and Michelle Obama, our country owes you an enormous debt of gratitude.
We — we thank you for your graceful, determined leadership that has meant so much to so many Americans and people across the world.
And to Bill and Chelsea, Mark, Charlotte, Aidan, our brothers and our entire family, my love for you means more than I can ever express. You crisscrossed this country on our behalf and lifted me up when I needed it most — even four-month-old Aidan who traveled with his mom.
I will always be grateful to the creative, talented, dedicated men and women at our headquarters in Brooklyn and across our country.
You poured your hearts into this campaign. For some of you who are veterans, it was a campaign after you had done other campaigns. Some of you, it was your first campaign. I want each of you to know that you were the best campaign anybody could have ever expected or wanted.
And to the millions of volunteers, community leaders, activists and union organizers who knocked on doors, talked to neighbors, posted on Facebook, even in secret, private Facebook sites…
… I want everybody coming out from behind that and make sure your voices are heard going forward.
To everyone who sent in contributions as small at $5 and kept us going, thank you. Thank you from all of us.
And to the young people in particular, I hope you will hear this. I have, as Tim said, spent my entire adult life fighting for what I believe in. I’ve had successes and I’ve had setbacks. Sometimes, really painful ones. Many of you are at the beginning of your professional public and political careers. You will have successes and setbacks, too.
This loss hurts, but please never stop believing that fighting for what’s right is worth it.
It is — it is worth it.
And so we need — we need you to keep up these fights now and for the rest of your lives.
And to all the women, and especially the young women, who put their faith in this campaign and in me, I want you to know that nothing has made me prouder than to be your champion.
Now, I — I know — I know we have still not shattered that highest and hardest glass ceiling, but some day someone will and hopefully sooner than we might think right now.
And — and to all the little girls who are watching this, never doubt that you are valuable and powerful and deserving of every chance and opportunity in the world to pursue and achieve your own dreams.
Finally…
Finally, I am so grateful for our country and for all it has given to me. I count my blessings every single day that I am an American. And I still believe as deeply as I ever have that if we stand together and work together with respect for our differences, strength in our convictions and love for this nation, our best days are still ahead of us.
Because, you know — you know, I believe we are stronger together and we will go forward together. And you should never, ever regret fighting for that. You know, scripture tells us, “Let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due season, we shall reap if we do not lose heart.”
So my friends, let us have faith in each other, let us not grow weary, let us not lose heart, for there are more seasons to come. And there is more work to do.
I am incredibly honored and grateful to have had this chance to represent all of you in this consequential election.
May God bless you and may God bless the United States of America.