Did he answer any question he was asked? Even when, after he rumbled a non sequitur answer, the moderator brought it back to the question that was asked?
I honest to God I don’t know how anybody can be undecided at this point. There’s absolutely no similarity between the two that makes it a hard decision. But for those that (astoundingly) still are undecided, the difference between them was stark tonight.
She answered questions and provided actual facts and specific policies. He rambled and turned everything into a rant on a personal grievance.
Ah the "undecided" Trump cynic. They state they are undecided so they don't get harangued by their collueges for who they are going to vote for anyway. And try to bring other people down by spreading their distrust and conspiracy theories. "Who are you go to vote for me?" "It doesnt matter anyway". It even sounds like one of Trumps non answers from last night.
I listened to three undecided voters being interviewed before and after the debate and couldn’t believe what I heard. One didn’t feel like either of them had anything to offer, right before he took off on a rant about government spending and global problems that sounded like he lives in the alternate reality mediaverse. Another admitted Harris sounded better but still doubted her “inexperience”. The last had already stated she just hated the divisiveness and name calling. She thought Harris might have edged a bit in front with the debate but couldn’t be sure. It was then that I came to suspect we have a real crisis in this nation. We have an entire segment of people who were never taught the skill of critical thinking. I despair of our nation if they act on their emotional indecisiveness.
"undecided" is a term I see thrown out mostly by people who aren't undecided at all. Giving back handed props to Kamala Harris then saying that the worry about her not having experience needed to run the country. These are Trumpers in sheep's clothing nothing more.
Ever since that Trump voter was vetted by the media person as undecided even though he definitely wasnt (after watching Kamalas RNC speech). I highly question the medias term of "undecided".
Sandy, you are right about the "undecideds." It is alas, not entirely their fault. Our schools are so desperate to get their students to "earn" high scores on ridiculous standardized tests which require next to no critical thinking, just "the right answers" so critical thinking in so much of our curricula is just left out. Besides would-be dictators don't want anyone thinking or they might not go along with the atrocities they are perpetrating against the people. Keeping everyone at a high level of anxiety also helps because then, those non-critical thinkers will choose to vote for the "strongman" who usually isn't really that strong, just able to wield power through bribes and other weapons that will keep enough thugs around them who will do the intimidating, murdering, framing, and the rest for him. Trump has not done an honest day of work in his life yet tells working people he is for them and will do something (although it is never really clear what) for them. I think interviewers need to either stop asking the "undecided" why and maybe something like "how will you know when you have decided, what will be the issue, action, etc. that will let you know." I am guessing they will not know and do just want the attention. Those folks really have nothing to add to the discussion, just more confusion and a sense that this country is falling apart, as Trump whines all the time. He is wrong, but the media just keep on playing his BS. It was good that a couple of times last night, the moderators did correct something Trump had lied about. It made no dent in Trump's rant, though as he told them they were wrong. Yep, Trump is nuts, but the kind of nuts his supporters just love because they have placed all kinds of faith in his insanity that it will do something for their white selves that a mixed-race woman can't provide.
On critical thinking and the public school system. My experience was those tests you mentioned were more about wrote memorization than any critical thinking. Once I got to college and critical thinking was involved I was at a vast disadvantage in classes where critical thinking was needed and wrote memorization was unhelpful (Calculus/Physics) Having to take multiple classes a 2nd time in order to actually learn and pass the curriculum. Our education system does a diservice in service to having a cowed populace but also by having a populace that does not leave the public education system prepared for life in general.
Neil Degrasse Tyson once stated that a person can't find a whale by pulling out a cup of water from the sea and declaring there are no whales in the ocean. Similarly taking a cross section of "undecided" voters does not indicate that we are so radically divided as to not survive. The majority of people who are undecided by this point has either already decided who they are going to vote for or isnt going to vote anyway. That segment was meant to garnish eyeballs and it also inadvertently spread "Trump" contagion. It did not add value or useful information.
THAT is why education is so damn important and why Southern states are so destitute! We New Yorkers are doing well, ESPECIALLY with a great opener for "Joshy" and The Bills!!!
Haha! Sounds like we run in very different circles. I´m sorry to hear you´re in hiding but glad to know the dynamic works both ways. One thing that Kamala said last night that I liked: it´s time to get past the divisiveness. We´re all just human beings. Like someone else once said -- there are good people on both sides.
Bonnie, I think you are right about the racism and misogyny. It still amazes me that when Trumpers and Trumpettes are interviewed, no interviewer asks a follow-up question like, "what specifically leads you to want to support Donald Trump?" or "does it bother you that Donald Trump has an authoritarian message?" or "does Donald Trump's attitude toward women or immigrants cause you any pause that might let you support another candidate?" I am guessing the reason is that they really don't want to know or don't care what the interviewee says because if they do say "I'm OK with it," the interviewer would possibly want to ask more questions and the interviewee would be uncomfortable, something no one wants white people to feel, discomfort.
The interviewer doesnt want to know. 1st get the racist/mysoginist to be on camera goad them to reveal their true colors. They want the outrage the clicks the eyeballs. Kamala actually masterfully used this tact against Trump during the debate starting him on the railroad track racist diatribe once about her race and secondly about the immigrants eating cats and dogs nonesense. What matters is if the viewer thinks that Archie Bunker (Trump) is right and agree with him or if through the racist diatribe that John Carroll O'Connor (Kamala) is showing how disgusting it truly is.
Every “undecided” that I’ve spoken with has an undercurrent of self righteousness. They believe themselves above the fray because they choose not to take sides.
In actuality, they are cowards afraid to express an opinion for fear somebody might disagree with them. And not taking sides or, more commonly, using the “both sides“ lie is their way of saying they can’t be blamed for anything that goes wrong because they didn’t participate.
On MSNBC, I saw before-after debate interviews with a group of undecideds. several of them were became more favorable toward Harris over the course of the debate. But they still hung back, said they needed to "do more research" before deciding. It made no sense to me...what is it they need to know that isn't already obvious (they were fuzzy on that). My impression was that they weren't terribly bright. Or maybe, just not clear thinkers. It'd be interesting to know if/ how they make ANY decisions in their day to day lives.
I don't think they're persuadable voters, they're locked into a mindset & the cognitive dissonance will not let them go........They also can't verbalise their true feelings, because of this disquiet....They know who he is, but are addicted to the performative chaos. This isn't rational or reasonable, they are Trump voters, just not able to be honest about it.
I think you are on point with the cognitive dissonance. Having a concersation with the conspiracy folks oe T cultists always come back to that "feeling" in the back of their heads that cant be pursuaded by logic or reason.
Something I have noticed over the years, is how people's political positions are heavily influenced by where they get their news. Fox viewers seem to live in a whole different world from MSNBC viewers... so those "undecideds who needed to do more research" might still have been reeling from exposure to two vastly different viewpoints.
I feel that too and despite Kamala's success in the debate I remain nervous because media corps like Fox, particularly the Murdoch ones and Musk on his X-Twitter are strongly backing Trump for their own selfish reasons.
excellent point..........what does need to be decided. for me the reality is this should not even be a close race..................and that's looking from a distance even. like outside of the warming bath, or the frying pan
Following Jamie Dimon's words,it shows Trump is "kinda" right in that America is not doing well. A sick economic system, and it is sick in it's maldistribution of wealth, makes for an unhealthy populace in body and mind.
Hi Steve. I spose that is not just a USA problem is it. It is pandemic be it East or West........capitalist or other. (think Russian olgarchs)
The problem for is this............we can have a negative outlooks that amplifies and focuses on 'the problem', or we can have an outlook that acknowledges the problem of inequity, but keeps sight of the 'good shit' that is always happening showing that the negative is not the total picture. You know the old maxims around it takes more muscles to smile than frown, it's easier to criticise than find positives. Trump is continually negative and for me shows no courage as a leader at all.............it's easy to amplify fear and feed it. People consume it so very very easily. The world is a sick economic system............but within are gems of resistance and victory. Two men looked through prison bars, one saw mud, one saw stars.
But one does wonder how many of Taylor's fans are old enough to vote. Then, again, maybe they can be persuasive enough to get their parents/grandparents to go for Harris. Hope springs eternal.
"While 45 per cent of Swift's US fans are millennials — like the 34-year-old herself — 21 per cent are Gen X and 25 per cent are Boomers, according to a 2023 survey. That means nearly half of her millions of fans are likely over 45."
At the risk of being adhominim. She has 283m instagram followers (if they are all based in the US then...) There are 326 million people in the US. 71 million kids are too young to vote. That means 283m -71m=212million eligible voters. I would say that the majority of her fans are of voting age.
So, is there any merit to affording attention to those self-identifying as "undecided"? What is there to be undecided about - how much indecision can hurt anyone who actually does care? (Do we know how many such people are *actually* undecided, i.e. not just trying to parlay their partisan vote for more attention?)
If the truth is that - between amnesia & irresponsibility - if they'll forgive themselves for doing the wrong thing (if not doing the *same* wrong thing again a few years down the road), then they don't deserve attention - especially if they *know* they are not getting better choices. Fuck 'em!
It it attention that can scarcely afford to be misplaced (forecasting is hard enough as it is - just look at how wrong the predictions were for 2016!)...
It seems to me like the vetting process used by the news media was the standard lets got some biased people who are willing to say they are ...undecided....
Good luck forcing the truth from folks - but the idea that voters who are "undecided" don't really factor into the calculus unless they are in a small set of swing states should be kept in mind...
Christopher, I like your reasoning about the "undecideds." If one does not declare, one can always brag "well, I didn't vote for them." I had forgotten how often I have heard that nonsense over the years. My usual comment back is, "well, you have shirked your responsibility as an American citizen, I guess you are proud of that too." I know it is snarky, but it is truly how I feel. I have voted for candidates who lost but don't try to deny it. Voting is what every single citizen aged 18 and older should be doing, every single time there is an election. And, it is our responsibility to learn about the candidates. It is easy now that we have the internet and can look at all different sites to get a variety of views of candidates, then we can read about them, watch different media sources. There are official candidate sites as well as commentators. There is simply no excuse these days to not vote. OK, there is in the states that are working on voter suppression, but even then there are organizations that can help get people registered (although every single citizen should be registered automatically), then help them get to the polls or get mail-in ballots.
We ask extraordinarily little of our citizens. Pretty much don't break the law, serve on jury duty when called. (And don't get me started on people who try to get out of jury duty.)
Voting, being engaged at least enough to decide which candidate you want, is not asking much. And those who can't be bothered irritate me.
Far more bothersome are those who take pride in their not being involved.
Christopher, I consider those who do not vote or want to do jury duty or any of the few other tasks of a citizen as "takers." They will take whatever is presented, but don't want to contribute anything, maybe except their complaints and general whines. We need to begin at preschool talking with children and their parents about their responsibilities as citizens as though they are gifts they have been given and that they need to be involved with so they can pass them on to the next generations. Maybe there should be incentives for voting rather than suppressions and disincentives. Two or more functioning political parties would be a big help too. One such party can't do it all even though it would try.
“I consider those who do not vote or want to do jury duty or any of the few other tasks of a citizen as "takers.""
Aka, Republicans and the “alt-left”.
I lean in favor of making voting a requirement or at least providing a very strong incentive like a substantial tax credit.
Better still, of course, would be instilling in people a sense of responsibility to participate and a sense of personal shame if they don’t. Teaching civics and citizenship starting in kindergarten and continuing right through every grade would go a long way toward getting there.
Perhaps those post-debate "undecided/need more research" voters THOUGHT they were decided based on their drip-drip of FOX News and other right-wing media.
After watching their guy next to a "true" patriot, (one that their media bubble has slammed as incompetent,) now they're "undecided" until they can "do more research" into their own psyches to determine what they REALLY believe.
David, alas, I am not sure any or many of them will do any self-searching. By standing with Trump for as long as they have, they have proven that examining their beliefs is something they will not do. I wish that were not true, but I have seen very little evidence of it, even with the Republicans who are voting supposedly for Harris-Walz. They still hold onto the same values that got us Trump; they just don't like Trump because he is nuts. What would happen if they got a guy who spewed all the same garbage but was not so off the wall? My guess is they are OK with authoritarianism, but with the right white guy who looks the part and rants boldly on appointed topics, you know, like the world's white dictators. I wish I were wrong, but . . . .
You are so right! my God, after all they witnessed from Trump and yet their still undecided, it's as plain as night versus day, light versus dark or evil, but I should not be surprised, they will probably put party over country, one AZ viewer, whose big concern is the border, but when it was brought up that Trump got Republicans to kill their own very most conservative border bill, he then turned around and gave Trump a pass, suggesting it's just politics, voters like this, they will bend themselves into a pretzel, so it seems they would rather vote for someone who only cares about himself, who is lying wannabe dictator, who said he would be a dictator on day 1, MAGA Trumpers to the end, traitors to American democracy, I guess some may like his strongman-autocratic racist vitriol, and most of them MAGA men and we will never get them to change their minds, like I said, party over country
Thats cognitive dissonance right there. It is the Trump contagion spread. Undecided my ass. Their dissonance has already chosen for them. Remember the lady whos husband died at the Trump rally from the mass shooter? She was "not into politics". Yet she and her family were willingly at a Trump rally. She refused Bidens call out of respect for her husbands poltics. That too is cognitive dissonance. Believing two contracdictory things it is no surprise that peoples brains can lie to themselves and hence a Trump voter can be "undecided" and a Trump loyalist at the same time.
👍 Cognitive dissonance and the Trump malignancy contagion has metastasized into their brains, and simply look the other way, are the MAGA supporters, are they at all embarrassed whatsoever, still all in voting for Trump, the MAGA segment of AZ voters, were not real outspoken in praise for Trump, none the less, they will vote for a most vile, despicable, evil little man and saying he did a better job at the debate, did they at all see what many others saw?, and some said, they did not hear any of Vice-President Harris plans, WTF? but from Trump they did, really? Did they not hear how Trump would not answer about whether he would support, a national abortion ban, did they not hear, how Trump praised dictator Victor Orban of Hungary, did they not hear, that Trump refused! to support Ukraine against dictator Putin, did they not hear, that after 9 years, that while Trump bashes the ACA, he still does not have his own plan, but has concepts, I will tell what that concept is and it is what he the MAGA GOP 2025 plan is, by no other name than, among other things, as "deathcare" and only healthcare for those who are wealthy, who can afford it , Trump and MAGA GOP, are deplorable, despicable and rotten to the core and "cruelty," is what they get up in the morning for and what they go to bed thinking about, what they live for, right there! that is their real family values
T and the Replubicans take fat kickbacks in the form of campaign donations to give "stock buybacks" to their shareholders (donors) in the form of tax breaks and tax shelters for corporations and billionaires. Real.family values should read real shareholder value. These narcisisst are like CEOs of a private equity firm thats sole purpose is to remove as much value from the American people and then toss us aside.
Indeed, very true, "tax cuts always" for those suffering billionaires and while they decry welfare for the needy, they have no problem when it comes to their donors, the CEOs of corporate America and their go to, they bring up the debt but always manage to find the money for tax cuts for rich people, the GOP motto, privatize the gains and socialize the losses and all for me and none for thee equals greed.
DJT was relatively Restrained for DJT... Kamala did Magnificently as many have Hoped... DJT became Seething... Reminds me of his Reactions at the 2011 Washington Correspondents Dinner that motivated DJT to run for President when Obama Roasted DJT... This Fury will motivate DJT to Steal This Election Any-Which-Way-That-He-Can...Taylor Swift, a 'Childless Cat-Woman', issued an Exquisitely Timed endorsement of Kamala... Coach Walz was also Excellent Afterwards... GO COACH!!!... Can't Wait For The VP Debate... Let's See If The Dark Siths Stick With DJT... Thank You Kamala!!!
Restrained? Did you watch the entire debate? The last half, Trump got rattled by Harris and went on tirade after tirade. He yelled to the very end, often continuing past his time. I wouldn't call that restrained. He was so angry and rattled that Kamala didn't even have to comment except to point to the audience and say, "You can see the difference".
When he knows he is losing he talks longer than he needs too and SHE HAD HIM TALKING. Wisely she would say her piece set him off and than back off and let him peter out. If she had done a back and forth with him he woulnt have had 9min more than she did. He would have had 18min. This isnt American Football where possession time indicates who is dominating the game. He LOST by taking as much time as he did talking about his standard campaing lies on TV and m
not the lies his handlers told him to speak about. Just like she meant him too.
I agree Christopher he answered no question even when it was put to him that the commentator wanted a yes or no answer he rambled off in another sphere. He did exactly the same thing in his 'debate' with Biden. Joe did answer all questions asked of him. His voice was so weak from the sore throat that he didn't appear forceful. Thank goodness Kamala is in good health, her answers were crisp and clear
Whatever happened to the old characterization of "bad seed"? It seemed to be a very useful term in describing a trait or condition that we non-clinicians had a hard time describing: ie a very bad person, usually a child. As noted above, Trump is nothing if not infantile, puerile, juvenile and yes, quintessentially, a "bad seed"!!
it very much goes against the philosophical grain that its environment and culture that is wholly determinative---that everyone is redeemable. A leftist bias. One I share, mostly.
I think they want exactly what trump talks about. They just don’t want to say it out loud. More importantly they want attention. They could just vote for him without blabbing to the world but they would not get attention.
They are as much a con as he is and they want to BE him.
Trump was asked pointedly and repeatedly if he would support a Ukraine win in the war. At no point did he answer the question. We all know he will say and do whatever Putin gives Trump permission to say and do.
What amazed me was the moderators allowing Trump to keep interrupting after the bell. He did it time and again hence getting 9 more minutes than Kamala. Why didn't the moderators shut him down they seemed intimidated. Fortunately Kamala wasn't in the slightest. You know when a man is crazy when he heaps praise on Victor Orban a ruthless dictator. Executing babies, eating cats the man is a psychopath. You are in an existential battle for the soul of America. If Trump wins you are in serious trouble and quite likely so is the rest of the world. The fact that he even has a chance to win is what I find deeply troubling.
Was it Muir/Davis controlling the mics, or the ABC Producers?
It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the producers took spontaneous judgement calls to #LetHimSpeak, in spite of their very own rules, to maximize the potential drama and entertainment value.
I read that he had almost 9 more minuets of talk time then the VP. I suspected then that it was for "entertainment" purposes. On the sunny side, he just dug himself into a deeper pit.
9 more minutes of spewey garbage. All Kamala had to do was sit back, let the ads that he saw before the debate and some slight prodding get him to go on the type of tirade that may be good in front of a MAGA crowd but way bad in front of independents, non-MaGa republicans and democrats. The Russians think that quantity is more valueable than quality and they still cant win in Ukraine. Kamala used the right strategy against him and her quality like Democracy will prevail over Putin understudy Trump's "overwhelming" lies.
I agree Mike control was joke. But one thing Abc did really good is playing their newest commercial twice in every segment and all the other commercials twice. Reminds me why I don’t watch commercial TV. You know it’s one thing to make money on air just another thing to drive it home so that you don’t wanna watch TV ever again.
I’m sure I’ll get a little bit of goth about this, but I think that Kamala could have responded to some of the questions instead of immediately responding to trumps absurd comments.
It seems that the reverence of calling Trump Mr. President was misplaced, and made them meak. The woman moderator was especially assertive and harsh with Ms. Harris. Double standards 😑
I agree- tRump was given more time to respond, constantly getting a response when he had already been given too much time. Kamala should have been given a response when she assertively yet politely asked for it- Ms.Davis made a bad call- Also David Muir misspoke right off the bat by referring to tRump as president tRump not former president tRump. He also said former president tRump was elected four years ago?!?!
Thats because Kamala Harris will treat her like a human being and wont sick MAGA goons on her at the drop of a hat. The reporters were afraid of Donald Trump that is why they did not press him. When Stephanopolis pressed Biden it was the same way. Stephanopolis asked tough questions because he knew he would not have death threats afterwards. https://www.blackenterprise.com/rachel-scott-allegedly-receivd-death-threats-after-nabj/
All the reporters cant be as brave as Rachel Scott.
I didn't care for her one bit. David Muir, on the other hand, was excellent. Thank God that -- of the four moderators for the two debates (so far) -- was a true journalist. Otherwise this would have been another trash, anti-Democratic piece of crap.
I also agree. I thought the questions were much better than the usual debate softball questions. And to question the moderators for not being able to control the idiotic MagaMoron Man is quite unfair!!
Well, at least Muir did fact-checking. I didn't hear Davis do that. EDIT: I'm wrong. Actually she's the one who told the orange sadist that infanticide is illegal in the United States. (What a complete and total nincompoop he is!)
DJT has already issued Threats against those that oppose DJT if DJT takes the White House again.. Haven't multiple Republicans in the Senate confide to Mitt Romney that they, and their Families were threatened if Voted to Impeach DJT during DJT's 2nd Impeachment Trial?
(Like!) I wonder what the debate experts would say about my frustration that Harris really did have an opening to ridicule an accumulation of "hoaxes.?" Aurora CO hoax. Pet-eating hoax. Everybody wanted Roe overturned hoax. Judges didn't hear election facts hoax. Don't know anything about Project 2025 hoax. (Don't know your secretary of this, manager of that....?) Probably why nobody ever asked me to run for anything!
I agree with your frustration. However, if she got involved in calling him out more than she did, she would have wasted valuable time. David Muir did some of it. I was happy to see Ms. Harris take deep breaths and refocus on the purpose of her participation, to make herself known as the intelligent, informed, and self-assured next president.
She struck a good balance. Hard to do in those circumstance. She stuck to her game plan and won. I'm glad she laughed at him. As a former prof of mine said:
as an argumentative tool, the well-timed laugh is superior to the gape of astonishment. Though she did plenty of that too.
You sir are a mind reader. I think you've mentioned every single issue that has been rattling around in my head. EsPECIALLY when trump started raving about Victor Orban! I mean, really? The 'whatever' whistling (now all the dogs have been eaten) was bad enough but classic trump blather … but channeling dictators?
Very disturbing … that he's even free to roam the streets let alone run for President.
It was irresponsible and they were cowed by.him until late in the debate. He should have muted instead of speaking for 9 minutes more than Harris--10% extra of the 90 minutes went to his blathering and lies.
At the same time, those extra lies and blather made the contrast with VP Harris even greater. And DT made quite a lot of unforced errors that made him look even more ridiculous. Nobody asked him about pet-eating immigrants.
yeah , I thought the Oban wanking by Trump was .............was like dude you are seriously out of touch if you think someone like that is a great role model or someone to tie yourself to their coat tails.........the former mistake of a President is an idiot.........maybe they gave him the mic because they knew let rav he would dig his grave deeper.
Nigel B -- Your last sentence is what's ringing in my ears for over eight (!!!) years now. How anybody wouldn't be utterly repulsed by this man is incomprehensible. That there are people who would vote for him -- even now -- is indeed deeply troubling. And they'll be there after Kamala wins. Racists, white supremacists, those who love authoritarians, misogynists, rich self-serving narcicists, evangelical christians, and the simply stupid... Before Trump, I didn't know how many of them there are.
Also, a few things where even Robert Reich gives tRumputin, to my utter surprise, much of a credit is about economy and immigration. Economy? You mean the one the putinist anti-American usurper tRump stole from President Obama and destroyed, especially during covid19 pandemic when because of his premeditated negligence million Americans died, not to even mention his billion gifts to the billionaire parasites? The economy that with President Biden's leadership has never been stronger in a half a century, having reversed tRumputin's devastation, is, somehow, "tRump's advantage"???????????
Immigration? How about asking - who allowed tRumps immigration to America? In America, the only real Natives are Native American First Nations, nobody else!!! I know that all these issues are too "hard" of the truth for much too many white-supremacist-bigoted-self-declared heterosexual-only American men and women, but these hard facts are the facts!
Vice President-to-be President Kamala Harris fully triumphed in the debate as she pretty much always does anywhere! A mere comparison of the convicted felon and adjudicated rapist tRumputin to the successful prosecutor and justice servant Kamala Harris is insulting!
What IS really dumbfounding is that USA, "courtesy of" so-called supreme court's 6 bigots - found itself yet again facing the anti-American aggressor tRumputin - instead of him being imprisoned already.
I actually was delighted that the moderators let him spew a few extra rants. He was in full-on meltdown when they let him have his few extra minutes. And thus the moderators let him expose his lack of self-control, tangential thinking, and belief in bizarre stories. It only made Kamala look better by comparison. I laughed and laughed.
It’s not a stretch to understand why the moderators couldn’t just turn off Trump’s mic when he rattled on and on. He’s like a snake; he hypnotizes you with his eyes And then proceeds to bite with his nasty endless rattling lies. I can’t wait until the ground opens to swallow this failed abortion.
I most certainly will never forget such warrior women. This is why my comment was purposely open weave. Women from all backgrounds still suffer in all societies historically rooted in colonialist structured abuses of power. Hence the heinous continuing global rise of Femicide.
Vice President Harris demonstrated once and for all that she’s presidential material. She hung him with her own words. Her experience as a prosecutor was on display tonight.
That should be the first and last debate. Trump is completely outclassed and over-matched against Harris. She owned him EVERY time she kicked his ego just to set him off. His phone is going to catch hell tonight.
Kamala offered a vision for the future. Trump kept rehashing old petty grievances.
They were shipped off to Sunday school. They learned the biggest lie of all, "the meek shall inherit the earth". Now they are detached from reality and are delusional, irrational thinkers the rest of their lives and are putty in the hands of their masters.
Yes, Religion and faith are opposite the scientific method, and lead to irrational behaviour. But behind it all, the US abondoned the uneducated when it allowed our corporations to send our labor to China, where wages are much lower than here. We can call them lazy, uneducated, etc, but the bottom line is that they were not respected, and brought into the economy.
Of course Trump doesn't care either, and gives tax breaks to the wealthy to make it even worse.
Many were left behind because the elites on both sides of the aisle either did not care, were not fully aware of the impact of their policies over time,, and/or too hooked into a corporate influenced worldview and values. The GOP was of course on the lead on this.
As someone who is a citizen of Aotearoa/New Zealand and therefore doesn't get a vote in probably the most important election for the world (of which I am a citizen!) in this decade (century?) I do hope the citizens of the USA make the right decision and vote overwhelming for Harris and her team. I fear for my children and grandchildren if this was not the case.
I watch interviews with people in Australia and New Zealand and at first I was baffled as to why they follow our political news so closely and know our government far better than do a majority of US citizens. It took me a short while to learn that people around the world are terrified about a possible Trump second term. I supposed I just wasn’t truly aware that “America is the leader of the free world,” as many like to brag. I’m an elderly white woman who would consider relocating to Canada or “down under” if Trump were to win. None of them want old people as citizens but I would be happy to be a well-educated school or community volunteer.
I am also an older white woman and I have looked into leaving America. Since I am not wealthy, I too can volunteer to help any agency in another country. I pray VP Harris wins. Otherwise the world’s most dangerous man, as his niece calls him, will wreck even more havoc on us & the world.
I will definitely keep your beautiful country in mind. I haven’t found many countries that will let an older person immigrate. I have a PHD, but no $$. Will work. 😊
we need those who respect and want to preserve our democracy and our leadership on the world stage, to remain here and continue the fight. If all of us were too exit the country there would be no opposition left to fight for 250 year old Democratic Republic
Just so you remember that a majority of millions of Americans have a heavy lift to make the right thing count. By raw count, we are making the right decision, over and over. There is vote-suppression sabotage at the State and County level. The governor of Florida has a special police force harassing voters who signed a petition to get abortion rights on the ballot. Please don't think all Americans are irrational!
And the governor & attorney general of Texas are acting like the gestapo & harassing Latinos who are legally registering people to vote, including absconding with their voting materials, cell phones, PCs, printers — but I haven’t heard of any white people having that happen. Racial bias and hatred. I don’t understand how they can get away with that behavior.
Good on you for raising this deliberately terrifying phenomenon. DeSantis is showing Floridians what a police state looks like. Let's hope enough of them get angry enough to throw him out.
I read a great analysis today from Elie Mystal in The Nation, detailing the last-minute lawsuits. Sadly, Elie is "realistic" about the Leo/McConnell saturated courts. But I am with you hoping that a "critical mass" of this political abuse finally wakes people up to just get mad enough to get voting done. Meanwhile, this looks hopeful: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4873961-debbie-mucarsel-powell-fundraising/
Thank you for the link. I’m not optimistic at all about defeating Scott, who always seems to squeeze by. But ‘tis to be hoped that any backlash to DeSantis’s unleashing of the police on unsuspecting petition signers will hurt Scott as collateral damage.
no we don't think that Mmerose. but what I think is emerging and down under here in NZ too.............money speaks, donors and lobbyists........its more like a chess game now as opposed to the best leaders, visions and ideas winning out. the world is full of peeps who shouldnt be leaders. there is an american chapter to my life............while I can't understand maga and republicans endorsing the Felon and The Sundance Kid.....I know so many who don't and lets hope they rally and prevail. Harris and Walz have me hoping for a better America......joy vs fear, forwards vs back, unity vs division, love vs hate.
Michael, I live in the US and raise American children. I don’t get to vote as I am not yet a citizen. For a long time now, I feel the same way as you — that I have no say in the most important elections of the world even though I pay my taxes, pay into social security, pledge allegiance every time others around me recite it. We are basically second class citizens of this world watching MAGAs destroying themselves, this once-somewhat-sane country and taking the rest of us with it. (I live in a red state — so forgive the tinge of ‘sorry for myself’ tone. I not only live but raise 2 daughters of child-bearing age here in this state with no guarantee of their reproductive health rights.)
Exactly!! I always say - the good NONtRumputinist and yet better ANTItRumputinist Americans - never ever allow America become the terrorist putin's russia and those parts of post-communist eastern half of Europe influenced by him, such as tragical orban viktor's Hungary, erdogan's Turkey, region of most of countries of former Yugoslavia! Never ever allow America and Modern West become anything the terrorist putin of russia wants!!!
as a Kiwi too, I totally agree with Michael. We see some shades of Maga BS in Aotearoa NZ, but as Michael says, as a citizen of the world, beyond the world series without the world......this impacts all of us. And we are laughing that such a bozo could get so far..........and then we have our own Bozo's who got a long way too......and I am as disillusioned by their supporter as I am with thems that support Don The Con.
In your language (tongue in cheek alert!) is "bozo" spelled m-u-r-d-o-c-h? American baby-boomer is impressed by long linguistic/cultural reach of metaphor "Bozo." I was born in 1953, and i have only a vague memory of "Bozo the Clown," maybe in early TV children's show? A powerful, enduring "meme."
good call, i was born in 1957, and have no memory of Bozo as a character. Over time in my head it has come to mean someone who thinks he is a big deal that ain't, that thinks he is cool and intellectual but ain't........usually with lotsa thick outta control hair.......(think Boris Johnson but not blonde)......maybe it was a bad choice of word.
But generally empty head space and funny...as with tRump and some of our politicians, funny in a sad way, a way you laugh at and not with.
No, it's a great word! I'm pretty sure the origin was just a silly (empty-headed?) kiddie show clown, stereotypical circus get-up like our friend Ronald.
We here in the US are terrified of a trump dictatorship too. I'm terrified for my children. Voting yes, but also calling out the BS corporate media who keep sanewashing Trump's word salad, and working to make sure the mechanisms beyond the voting booth (clerks, electors, etc who certify elections) aren't being tampered with by the goons who want to see their fascist fantasies play out. It's a long two months to go...
I thought Trump stole at least 9 minutes from Kamala. When Trump said that Biden hadn't take the tarriffs off he had put on Chinese goods, I thought Kamala should blame him for the inflation then! Kamala didn't hit hard enough on the 5 trillion dollars that Donald rang up in debt. All in all I would say Kamala won and Trump lied continuously and has no plans! I think he plans on turning all that over to the heritage society and the 2025 gang.
The ABC's moderators were too impatient to interrupt her while yielding to tRumputin, even after saying "moving on to the next question". Kamala was going to tell off the facts to tRumputin but she wasn't given a chance by the moderators. Comparing to cnn's dana bash/jake tapper from the first debate, these ABC's moderators were trying here and there to be more impartial but with an aggressive psychopath such as tRumputin, it's a sloppy moderators' job unless the unabashed attitude is taken. For G-d's sakes, it's been a decade of his evil.
@ Robert Reich, I hope you, sir, don't take my previous comment as overly critical of you because I really like you and respect you as evidenced by my paid subscription to the Inequality Media Civic Action etc... I only reminded that tRumputin indeed has NO any factual advantages over Biden-Harris Administration- despite what MSM was shoving down our throats thinking we had amnesia of tRumputin's years and everything of his that followed. So, I only say, instead of regurgitating the pro-tRumputinist rhetoric of most unfortunately too much of MSM, we need to always counterpoint them with good facts about President Biden's Administration that was life-saving!!!
Kamala Harris OWNED Donald J. Trump tonight! Right from the introduction, she wined him. He was off his game after she forced him to shake her hand and she told him her ‘correct’ way to say her name, which he never uttered the entire debate!
Harris destroyed Trump in every subject, every question, every answer to every question, and rebuttal. She kept feeding him ‘bait’ on every answer she gave and he went straight for it.
The icing on the cake was the endorsement by Taylor Swift, after the debate. That put the candles on her cane and lit them. Trump is sooo screwed.
While I understand the exuberance, jokes, and high-fives, it all makes me very nervous. Many of us felt the same way—hopeful and confident—8 years ago. We then received the shock of our lives.
If you look at comments made by everyone—not just people who agree with you—many think it was a close debate. Debates aren’t known to change many people’s minds.
Also, in 2016 the only clue I had that DT might win was because he had *many* more followers on social media than the democratic nominee. The same is true again now. It is not even close.
Caution.
(For those of you still on the fence, this election is not about republicans vs democrats, red vs blue. it is about trying to preserve democracy vs the systematic dismantling of it.)
I don’t agree with everything kamala says. In fact I am downright disappointed that she has not been more vocal about a ceasefire and absolute end to all violence in the Middle East NOW. But perfect is the enemy of good and I am voting for her.
I feel no sense of complacence after tonight’s debate and you shouldn’t either. Don’t forget what happened in 2016. This is *not* over by any stretch.
Jas, I guess it’s not considered politic in a debate to say that the US President (or vice president) doesn’t have control over all world events. In fact, there are no points for observing that a president doesn’t have control of Congress or the Supreme Court. The Oval Office doesn’t come with a magic wand. Certainly our president does have a lot of influence, but autocrats and a GOP-controlled Congress have their own power and games.
Thank you.... Children absolutely need to be learning this in school! I've been noticing for awhile how many people talk as if the president is some combination of God and Santa Claus.
I loved it, Harris knocked it out of the park, but I would have preferred more active debunking of his bullshit by the so-called moderators (who treated his ravings as somehow, in some fantasy world, legitimate). The media has become utterly worthless.
Thanks for mentioning the media and moderators. For me the supposed moderation was somewhat MIA. Why was Trump allowed to respond out of turn netting him approximately nine extra minutes
? Not only was this off base from what I understand of the ‘rules’ of this debate but when Kamala asked politely at one point for the same consideration she was brushed off. Why were did his absolute untruths challenged more than once or twice?
Fortunately Kamala responded to the brush off with her usual grace and aplomb reaffirming the obvious difference between the two candidates..
Well, that's where it was great to watch the debate via Professor Reich's virtual watch party, where Reich would spread his hands and say "lie" when Trump was telling one. Most helpful.
That is how I watched it also. I think it made it much easier to stick with it. The moderators let Trump get away with unchallenged lies, running over his time and still not answerinf questions. Hearing Professor Reich's objections was like having sane company so I didn't have to turn off the debate in frustration.
It was a significant improvement over the last debate, which was completely void of any fact checking. Recent corporate mainstream media behavior has left me with very low expectations of them.
One way of looking at the effectiveness of an interchanged is turn off the sound. You will see a dour, mean, and defensive posture, while hers was bemused and thoughtful and measured. She spoke to the camera while he was fixated on her. He is soooo difficult to digest.
I’m a cynic. Even if Der Pumpkin Fuhrer loses, he’s just a symptom of a bigger problem in this sick country. One third wants to kill another third while the last third watches. https://youtu.be/jH9xcje_Dlw?feature=shared
I share your cynicism in that it is clear that one third are under an authoritarian magic spell that they will see a mirage of wonderfulness in place of the pitiful reality of Trump. But the last third watching have been watching medical security dissolve if something goes wrong with a pregnancy, and have been watching their basic voting rights sabotaged and harassed. (Can we get mad, people?) So you and me hope that last third don't just watch.
The problem is that one third have been left out of the benefits of allowing US companies to manufacture anywhere wages are low, and then sell where wages are high. They have lost their low education jobs to China and other countries. They are therefore easily hooked on the MAGA concept. They are easily swayed that tariff's are a great idea to benefit them, precisely because it raises the price of foreign made goods. And it seems like they are correct in this. Of course the city people with higher incomes will see their favored goods go up in price, like autos, cell phones, computers, TV's, and solar panels. Food might be a bit different, but a lot of food in the US is imported.
What they don't get is that the republicans still favor tax breaks for the corporations that have shifted their jobs overseas, and the multi-billionaires spawned by the use of foreign labor.
THANK YOU, JOE BIDEN FOR YOUR LONG DISTINGUISHED SERVICE TO THIS NATION AND FOR STEPPING DOWN TO LET YOUR VP, KAMALA HARRIS, LEAD YOUR PARTY! She EVISCERATED the obviously desperate bronze-tinged lying con-man, convicted felon, convicted sexual-assaulter, wanna-be dictator and TRAITOR to our country. She knocked it out of the park! How satisfying!
Did he answer any question he was asked? Even when, after he rumbled a non sequitur answer, the moderator brought it back to the question that was asked?
I honest to God I don’t know how anybody can be undecided at this point. There’s absolutely no similarity between the two that makes it a hard decision. But for those that (astoundingly) still are undecided, the difference between them was stark tonight.
She answered questions and provided actual facts and specific policies. He rambled and turned everything into a rant on a personal grievance.
The “ I’m undecided. I need to know more” crowd are living under a rock OR have figured out how to get attention. Pathetic, either way.
Or they just won’t admit that Trump appeals to their undercurrent of racism and misogyny
(Like!) Whoa, Bonnie, I wish I knew some hot hip slang for how tragically true is your insight!
"Tragically bad take" for the Trumplican Traitors?
Ding ding ding
Ah the "undecided" Trump cynic. They state they are undecided so they don't get harangued by their collueges for who they are going to vote for anyway. And try to bring other people down by spreading their distrust and conspiracy theories. "Who are you go to vote for me?" "It doesnt matter anyway". It even sounds like one of Trumps non answers from last night.
I listened to three undecided voters being interviewed before and after the debate and couldn’t believe what I heard. One didn’t feel like either of them had anything to offer, right before he took off on a rant about government spending and global problems that sounded like he lives in the alternate reality mediaverse. Another admitted Harris sounded better but still doubted her “inexperience”. The last had already stated she just hated the divisiveness and name calling. She thought Harris might have edged a bit in front with the debate but couldn’t be sure. It was then that I came to suspect we have a real crisis in this nation. We have an entire segment of people who were never taught the skill of critical thinking. I despair of our nation if they act on their emotional indecisiveness.
"undecided" is a term I see thrown out mostly by people who aren't undecided at all. Giving back handed props to Kamala Harris then saying that the worry about her not having experience needed to run the country. These are Trumpers in sheep's clothing nothing more.
Ever since that Trump voter was vetted by the media person as undecided even though he definitely wasnt (after watching Kamalas RNC speech). I highly question the medias term of "undecided".
Especially since Trump had ZERO experience when he landed the highest office in the country.
Sandy, you are right about the "undecideds." It is alas, not entirely their fault. Our schools are so desperate to get their students to "earn" high scores on ridiculous standardized tests which require next to no critical thinking, just "the right answers" so critical thinking in so much of our curricula is just left out. Besides would-be dictators don't want anyone thinking or they might not go along with the atrocities they are perpetrating against the people. Keeping everyone at a high level of anxiety also helps because then, those non-critical thinkers will choose to vote for the "strongman" who usually isn't really that strong, just able to wield power through bribes and other weapons that will keep enough thugs around them who will do the intimidating, murdering, framing, and the rest for him. Trump has not done an honest day of work in his life yet tells working people he is for them and will do something (although it is never really clear what) for them. I think interviewers need to either stop asking the "undecided" why and maybe something like "how will you know when you have decided, what will be the issue, action, etc. that will let you know." I am guessing they will not know and do just want the attention. Those folks really have nothing to add to the discussion, just more confusion and a sense that this country is falling apart, as Trump whines all the time. He is wrong, but the media just keep on playing his BS. It was good that a couple of times last night, the moderators did correct something Trump had lied about. It made no dent in Trump's rant, though as he told them they were wrong. Yep, Trump is nuts, but the kind of nuts his supporters just love because they have placed all kinds of faith in his insanity that it will do something for their white selves that a mixed-race woman can't provide.
On critical thinking and the public school system. My experience was those tests you mentioned were more about wrote memorization than any critical thinking. Once I got to college and critical thinking was involved I was at a vast disadvantage in classes where critical thinking was needed and wrote memorization was unhelpful (Calculus/Physics) Having to take multiple classes a 2nd time in order to actually learn and pass the curriculum. Our education system does a diservice in service to having a cowed populace but also by having a populace that does not leave the public education system prepared for life in general.
Indeed!
Neil Degrasse Tyson once stated that a person can't find a whale by pulling out a cup of water from the sea and declaring there are no whales in the ocean. Similarly taking a cross section of "undecided" voters does not indicate that we are so radically divided as to not survive. The majority of people who are undecided by this point has either already decided who they are going to vote for or isnt going to vote anyway. That segment was meant to garnish eyeballs and it also inadvertently spread "Trump" contagion. It did not add value or useful information.
THAT is why education is so damn important and why Southern states are so destitute! We New Yorkers are doing well, ESPECIALLY with a great opener for "Joshy" and The Bills!!!
The Trump malignancy, has metastasized into their brains
INDEED!!! I FEEL THE SAME, AS YOU MENTIONED
I don´t for a second blame closeted Trump voters. In many social circles, the pressure to support Kamala is overwhelming -- who could stand up to it?
Tell me about it. There are only Trump signs on the lawns near me. All the Harris supporters like myself are hiding.
Haha! Sounds like we run in very different circles. I´m sorry to hear you´re in hiding but glad to know the dynamic works both ways. One thing that Kamala said last night that I liked: it´s time to get past the divisiveness. We´re all just human beings. Like someone else once said -- there are good people on both sides.
Bonnie, I think you are right about the racism and misogyny. It still amazes me that when Trumpers and Trumpettes are interviewed, no interviewer asks a follow-up question like, "what specifically leads you to want to support Donald Trump?" or "does it bother you that Donald Trump has an authoritarian message?" or "does Donald Trump's attitude toward women or immigrants cause you any pause that might let you support another candidate?" I am guessing the reason is that they really don't want to know or don't care what the interviewee says because if they do say "I'm OK with it," the interviewer would possibly want to ask more questions and the interviewee would be uncomfortable, something no one wants white people to feel, discomfort.
The interviewer doesnt want to know. 1st get the racist/mysoginist to be on camera goad them to reveal their true colors. They want the outrage the clicks the eyeballs. Kamala actually masterfully used this tact against Trump during the debate starting him on the railroad track racist diatribe once about her race and secondly about the immigrants eating cats and dogs nonesense. What matters is if the viewer thinks that Archie Bunker (Trump) is right and agree with him or if through the racist diatribe that John Carroll O'Connor (Kamala) is showing how disgusting it truly is.
Bingo. They're lying to themselves and others. They have hidden agenda.
When he denied knowing about Project 2025, I wish Kamala had reminded him JD Vance, his VP running mate, wrote one of the forwards for it.
INDEED!
Every “undecided” that I’ve spoken with has an undercurrent of self righteousness. They believe themselves above the fray because they choose not to take sides.
In actuality, they are cowards afraid to express an opinion for fear somebody might disagree with them. And not taking sides or, more commonly, using the “both sides“ lie is their way of saying they can’t be blamed for anything that goes wrong because they didn’t participate.
On MSNBC, I saw before-after debate interviews with a group of undecideds. several of them were became more favorable toward Harris over the course of the debate. But they still hung back, said they needed to "do more research" before deciding. It made no sense to me...what is it they need to know that isn't already obvious (they were fuzzy on that). My impression was that they weren't terribly bright. Or maybe, just not clear thinkers. It'd be interesting to know if/ how they make ANY decisions in their day to day lives.
I don't think they're persuadable voters, they're locked into a mindset & the cognitive dissonance will not let them go........They also can't verbalise their true feelings, because of this disquiet....They know who he is, but are addicted to the performative chaos. This isn't rational or reasonable, they are Trump voters, just not able to be honest about it.
I think you are on point with the cognitive dissonance. Having a concersation with the conspiracy folks oe T cultists always come back to that "feeling" in the back of their heads that cant be pursuaded by logic or reason.
Something I have noticed over the years, is how people's political positions are heavily influenced by where they get their news. Fox viewers seem to live in a whole different world from MSNBC viewers... so those "undecideds who needed to do more research" might still have been reeling from exposure to two vastly different viewpoints.
I feel that too and despite Kamala's success in the debate I remain nervous because media corps like Fox, particularly the Murdoch ones and Musk on his X-Twitter are strongly backing Trump for their own selfish reasons.
Kaye
the best thing to do is work. I lead teams to register people. etc etc.
And I agree. No reason at all to lean back in the saddle. How many undecideds are going to vote Trump? Nobody knows.
excellent point..........what does need to be decided. for me the reality is this should not even be a close race..................and that's looking from a distance even. like outside of the warming bath, or the frying pan
Following Jamie Dimon's words,it shows Trump is "kinda" right in that America is not doing well. A sick economic system, and it is sick in it's maldistribution of wealth, makes for an unhealthy populace in body and mind.
Hi Steve. I spose that is not just a USA problem is it. It is pandemic be it East or West........capitalist or other. (think Russian olgarchs)
The problem for is this............we can have a negative outlooks that amplifies and focuses on 'the problem', or we can have an outlook that acknowledges the problem of inequity, but keeps sight of the 'good shit' that is always happening showing that the negative is not the total picture. You know the old maxims around it takes more muscles to smile than frown, it's easier to criticise than find positives. Trump is continually negative and for me shows no courage as a leader at all.............it's easy to amplify fear and feed it. People consume it so very very easily. The world is a sick economic system............but within are gems of resistance and victory. Two men looked through prison bars, one saw mud, one saw stars.
Exactly.
Taylor Swift came out for Harris after the debate. Yippii!
But one does wonder how many of Taylor's fans are old enough to vote. Then, again, maybe they can be persuasive enough to get their parents/grandparents to go for Harris. Hope springs eternal.
"While 45 per cent of Swift's US fans are millennials — like the 34-year-old herself — 21 per cent are Gen X and 25 per cent are Boomers, according to a 2023 survey. That means nearly half of her millions of fans are likely over 45."
Looks good to me!
At the risk of being adhominim. She has 283m instagram followers (if they are all based in the US then...) There are 326 million people in the US. 71 million kids are too young to vote. That means 283m -71m=212million eligible voters. I would say that the majority of her fans are of voting age.
Poor Taylor and her fans have never been allowed to age. All the fans I know range from late twenties through fifties, plenty old enough to vote.
My.imprwssion is that they are Trumpers who ashamed to admit it
So, is there any merit to affording attention to those self-identifying as "undecided"? What is there to be undecided about - how much indecision can hurt anyone who actually does care? (Do we know how many such people are *actually* undecided, i.e. not just trying to parlay their partisan vote for more attention?)
If the truth is that - between amnesia & irresponsibility - if they'll forgive themselves for doing the wrong thing (if not doing the *same* wrong thing again a few years down the road), then they don't deserve attention - especially if they *know* they are not getting better choices. Fuck 'em!
I wish they would stop giving the “undecideds” any air time. They’re just attention whores.
It it attention that can scarcely afford to be misplaced (forecasting is hard enough as it is - just look at how wrong the predictions were for 2016!)...
It seems to me like the vetting process used by the news media was the standard lets got some biased people who are willing to say they are ...undecided....
Good luck forcing the truth from folks - but the idea that voters who are "undecided" don't really factor into the calculus unless they are in a small set of swing states should be kept in mind...
Christopher, I like your reasoning about the "undecideds." If one does not declare, one can always brag "well, I didn't vote for them." I had forgotten how often I have heard that nonsense over the years. My usual comment back is, "well, you have shirked your responsibility as an American citizen, I guess you are proud of that too." I know it is snarky, but it is truly how I feel. I have voted for candidates who lost but don't try to deny it. Voting is what every single citizen aged 18 and older should be doing, every single time there is an election. And, it is our responsibility to learn about the candidates. It is easy now that we have the internet and can look at all different sites to get a variety of views of candidates, then we can read about them, watch different media sources. There are official candidate sites as well as commentators. There is simply no excuse these days to not vote. OK, there is in the states that are working on voter suppression, but even then there are organizations that can help get people registered (although every single citizen should be registered automatically), then help them get to the polls or get mail-in ballots.
We ask extraordinarily little of our citizens. Pretty much don't break the law, serve on jury duty when called. (And don't get me started on people who try to get out of jury duty.)
Voting, being engaged at least enough to decide which candidate you want, is not asking much. And those who can't be bothered irritate me.
Far more bothersome are those who take pride in their not being involved.
Christopher, I consider those who do not vote or want to do jury duty or any of the few other tasks of a citizen as "takers." They will take whatever is presented, but don't want to contribute anything, maybe except their complaints and general whines. We need to begin at preschool talking with children and their parents about their responsibilities as citizens as though they are gifts they have been given and that they need to be involved with so they can pass them on to the next generations. Maybe there should be incentives for voting rather than suppressions and disincentives. Two or more functioning political parties would be a big help too. One such party can't do it all even though it would try.
“I consider those who do not vote or want to do jury duty or any of the few other tasks of a citizen as "takers.""
Aka, Republicans and the “alt-left”.
I lean in favor of making voting a requirement or at least providing a very strong incentive like a substantial tax credit.
Better still, of course, would be instilling in people a sense of responsibility to participate and a sense of personal shame if they don’t. Teaching civics and citizenship starting in kindergarten and continuing right through every grade would go a long way toward getting there.
In Ecuador an Ecuadorian citizen who is living abroad has to pay a fine for every election that they missed in their time outside of the country.
Naah. That much mental processing is probably way beyond them.
Perhaps those post-debate "undecided/need more research" voters THOUGHT they were decided based on their drip-drip of FOX News and other right-wing media.
After watching their guy next to a "true" patriot, (one that their media bubble has slammed as incompetent,) now they're "undecided" until they can "do more research" into their own psyches to determine what they REALLY believe.
David, alas, I am not sure any or many of them will do any self-searching. By standing with Trump for as long as they have, they have proven that examining their beliefs is something they will not do. I wish that were not true, but I have seen very little evidence of it, even with the Republicans who are voting supposedly for Harris-Walz. They still hold onto the same values that got us Trump; they just don't like Trump because he is nuts. What would happen if they got a guy who spewed all the same garbage but was not so off the wall? My guess is they are OK with authoritarianism, but with the right white guy who looks the part and rants boldly on appointed topics, you know, like the world's white dictators. I wish I were wrong, but . . . .
The sanctimonious fence sitters who seem to think they know more than anyone else…
You are so right! my God, after all they witnessed from Trump and yet their still undecided, it's as plain as night versus day, light versus dark or evil, but I should not be surprised, they will probably put party over country, one AZ viewer, whose big concern is the border, but when it was brought up that Trump got Republicans to kill their own very most conservative border bill, he then turned around and gave Trump a pass, suggesting it's just politics, voters like this, they will bend themselves into a pretzel, so it seems they would rather vote for someone who only cares about himself, who is lying wannabe dictator, who said he would be a dictator on day 1, MAGA Trumpers to the end, traitors to American democracy, I guess some may like his strongman-autocratic racist vitriol, and most of them MAGA men and we will never get them to change their minds, like I said, party over country
Thats cognitive dissonance right there. It is the Trump contagion spread. Undecided my ass. Their dissonance has already chosen for them. Remember the lady whos husband died at the Trump rally from the mass shooter? She was "not into politics". Yet she and her family were willingly at a Trump rally. She refused Bidens call out of respect for her husbands poltics. That too is cognitive dissonance. Believing two contracdictory things it is no surprise that peoples brains can lie to themselves and hence a Trump voter can be "undecided" and a Trump loyalist at the same time.
👍 Cognitive dissonance and the Trump malignancy contagion has metastasized into their brains, and simply look the other way, are the MAGA supporters, are they at all embarrassed whatsoever, still all in voting for Trump, the MAGA segment of AZ voters, were not real outspoken in praise for Trump, none the less, they will vote for a most vile, despicable, evil little man and saying he did a better job at the debate, did they at all see what many others saw?, and some said, they did not hear any of Vice-President Harris plans, WTF? but from Trump they did, really? Did they not hear how Trump would not answer about whether he would support, a national abortion ban, did they not hear, how Trump praised dictator Victor Orban of Hungary, did they not hear, that Trump refused! to support Ukraine against dictator Putin, did they not hear, that after 9 years, that while Trump bashes the ACA, he still does not have his own plan, but has concepts, I will tell what that concept is and it is what he the MAGA GOP 2025 plan is, by no other name than, among other things, as "deathcare" and only healthcare for those who are wealthy, who can afford it , Trump and MAGA GOP, are deplorable, despicable and rotten to the core and "cruelty," is what they get up in the morning for and what they go to bed thinking about, what they live for, right there! that is their real family values
T and the Replubicans take fat kickbacks in the form of campaign donations to give "stock buybacks" to their shareholders (donors) in the form of tax breaks and tax shelters for corporations and billionaires. Real.family values should read real shareholder value. These narcisisst are like CEOs of a private equity firm thats sole purpose is to remove as much value from the American people and then toss us aside.
Indeed, very true, "tax cuts always" for those suffering billionaires and while they decry welfare for the needy, they have no problem when it comes to their donors, the CEOs of corporate America and their go to, they bring up the debt but always manage to find the money for tax cuts for rich people, the GOP motto, privatize the gains and socialize the losses and all for me and none for thee equals greed.
DJT was relatively Restrained for DJT... Kamala did Magnificently as many have Hoped... DJT became Seething... Reminds me of his Reactions at the 2011 Washington Correspondents Dinner that motivated DJT to run for President when Obama Roasted DJT... This Fury will motivate DJT to Steal This Election Any-Which-Way-That-He-Can...Taylor Swift, a 'Childless Cat-Woman', issued an Exquisitely Timed endorsement of Kamala... Coach Walz was also Excellent Afterwards... GO COACH!!!... Can't Wait For The VP Debate... Let's See If The Dark Siths Stick With DJT... Thank You Kamala!!!
Restrained? Did you watch the entire debate? The last half, Trump got rattled by Harris and went on tirade after tirade. He yelled to the very end, often continuing past his time. I wouldn't call that restrained. He was so angry and rattled that Kamala didn't even have to comment except to point to the audience and say, "You can see the difference".
When he knows he is losing he talks longer than he needs too and SHE HAD HIM TALKING. Wisely she would say her piece set him off and than back off and let him peter out. If she had done a back and forth with him he woulnt have had 9min more than she did. He would have had 18min. This isnt American Football where possession time indicates who is dominating the game. He LOST by taking as much time as he did talking about his standard campaing lies on TV and m
not the lies his handlers told him to speak about. Just like she meant him too.
Children without direction
I agree Christopher he answered no question even when it was put to him that the commentator wanted a yes or no answer he rambled off in another sphere. He did exactly the same thing in his 'debate' with Biden. Joe did answer all questions asked of him. His voice was so weak from the sore throat that he didn't appear forceful. Thank goodness Kamala is in good health, her answers were crisp and clear
Watching him get louder and louder was a joy to behold. Good old rope-a-dope. Kamala did it well. Kamala Ali!
A 3 year old mind in a 78 year old body! A crazy 3 year old.
Whatever happened to the old characterization of "bad seed"? It seemed to be a very useful term in describing a trait or condition that we non-clinicians had a hard time describing: ie a very bad person, usually a child. As noted above, Trump is nothing if not infantile, puerile, juvenile and yes, quintessentially, a "bad seed"!!
it very much goes against the philosophical grain that its environment and culture that is wholly determinative---that everyone is redeemable. A leftist bias. One I share, mostly.
A crazy, bumbling, unhinged lunatic, who goes back to his favorite hits, but old, tired and racists to most everyone else
Just give Trump the tablet and make him shut up.
For quite some time now, "undecided" has been a synonym for "ignorant."
Worse. *Determinedly* ignorant.
It's not just that they haven't gotten the info, but that they actively close their eyes to it.
I think they want exactly what trump talks about. They just don’t want to say it out loud. More importantly they want attention. They could just vote for him without blabbing to the world but they would not get attention.
They are as much a con as he is and they want to BE him.
He did finally answer about his replacement healthcare plan. After nine years he admitted he has only a CONCEPT of a plan.
That was one of the laugh-out-loud highlights for me.
https://allears.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/12-percent-of-a-plan-guardians-gif.gif
Indeed👍
Trump was asked pointedly and repeatedly if he would support a Ukraine win in the war. At no point did he answer the question. We all know he will say and do whatever Putin gives Trump permission to say and do.
What amazed me was the moderators allowing Trump to keep interrupting after the bell. He did it time and again hence getting 9 more minutes than Kamala. Why didn't the moderators shut him down they seemed intimidated. Fortunately Kamala wasn't in the slightest. You know when a man is crazy when he heaps praise on Victor Orban a ruthless dictator. Executing babies, eating cats the man is a psychopath. You are in an existential battle for the soul of America. If Trump wins you are in serious trouble and quite likely so is the rest of the world. The fact that he even has a chance to win is what I find deeply troubling.
I don't get it, either. There were rules. They controlled the mics (at least it should have been them). Really bad.
Was it Muir/Davis controlling the mics, or the ABC Producers?
It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that the producers took spontaneous judgement calls to #LetHimSpeak, in spite of their very own rules, to maximize the potential drama and entertainment value.
I read that he had almost 9 more minuets of talk time then the VP. I suspected then that it was for "entertainment" purposes. On the sunny side, he just dug himself into a deeper pit.
9 more minutes of spewey garbage. All Kamala had to do was sit back, let the ads that he saw before the debate and some slight prodding get him to go on the type of tirade that may be good in front of a MAGA crowd but way bad in front of independents, non-MaGa republicans and democrats. The Russians think that quantity is more valueable than quality and they still cant win in Ukraine. Kamala used the right strategy against him and her quality like Democracy will prevail over Putin understudy Trump's "overwhelming" lies.
I agree Mike control was joke. But one thing Abc did really good is playing their newest commercial twice in every segment and all the other commercials twice. Reminds me why I don’t watch commercial TV. You know it’s one thing to make money on air just another thing to drive it home so that you don’t wanna watch TV ever again.
I’m sure I’ll get a little bit of goth about this, but I think that Kamala could have responded to some of the questions instead of immediately responding to trumps absurd comments.
Interesting thought.
It seems that the reverence of calling Trump Mr. President was misplaced, and made them meak. The woman moderator was especially assertive and harsh with Ms. Harris. Double standards 😑
I agree- tRump was given more time to respond, constantly getting a response when he had already been given too much time. Kamala should have been given a response when she assertively yet politely asked for it- Ms.Davis made a bad call- Also David Muir misspoke right off the bat by referring to tRump as president tRump not former president tRump. He also said former president tRump was elected four years ago?!?!
Thats because Kamala Harris will treat her like a human being and wont sick MAGA goons on her at the drop of a hat. The reporters were afraid of Donald Trump that is why they did not press him. When Stephanopolis pressed Biden it was the same way. Stephanopolis asked tough questions because he knew he would not have death threats afterwards. https://www.blackenterprise.com/rachel-scott-allegedly-receivd-death-threats-after-nabj/
All the reporters cant be as brave as Rachel Scott.
I didn't care for her one bit. David Muir, on the other hand, was excellent. Thank God that -- of the four moderators for the two debates (so far) -- was a true journalist. Otherwise this would have been another trash, anti-Democratic piece of crap.
At least the moderators tried to shut him down, and did some fact-checking, unlike previous moderators.
agree David, I thought that was significant.........tRumpy thinks he can say anything.......
I loved the presenter correction on no state allows his pet call of death after birth nonsense as being legal.
I also agree. I thought the questions were much better than the usual debate softball questions. And to question the moderators for not being able to control the idiotic MagaMoron Man is quite unfair!!
Well, at least Muir did fact-checking. I didn't hear Davis do that. EDIT: I'm wrong. Actually she's the one who told the orange sadist that infanticide is illegal in the United States. (What a complete and total nincompoop he is!)
DJT has already issued Threats against those that oppose DJT if DJT takes the White House again.. Haven't multiple Republicans in the Senate confide to Mitt Romney that they, and their Families were threatened if Voted to Impeach DJT during DJT's 2nd Impeachment Trial?
The new video of the Hell that repugnicants in Congress made for Adam Kinzinger at his workplace was astounding.
Where is the video? I'd like to see that!
(Like!) I wonder what the debate experts would say about my frustration that Harris really did have an opening to ridicule an accumulation of "hoaxes.?" Aurora CO hoax. Pet-eating hoax. Everybody wanted Roe overturned hoax. Judges didn't hear election facts hoax. Don't know anything about Project 2025 hoax. (Don't know your secretary of this, manager of that....?) Probably why nobody ever asked me to run for anything!
I agree with your frustration. However, if she got involved in calling him out more than she did, she would have wasted valuable time. David Muir did some of it. I was happy to see Ms. Harris take deep breaths and refocus on the purpose of her participation, to make herself known as the intelligent, informed, and self-assured next president.
She struck a good balance. Hard to do in those circumstance. She stuck to her game plan and won. I'm glad she laughed at him. As a former prof of mine said:
as an argumentative tool, the well-timed laugh is superior to the gape of astonishment. Though she did plenty of that too.
We can add: 'they'll take your guns' hoax. 'She's a Marxist' hoax. 'They're bringing in migrants so they can vote' hoax.
You sir are a mind reader. I think you've mentioned every single issue that has been rattling around in my head. EsPECIALLY when trump started raving about Victor Orban! I mean, really? The 'whatever' whistling (now all the dogs have been eaten) was bad enough but classic trump blather … but channeling dictators?
Very disturbing … that he's even free to roam the streets let alone run for President.
It was irresponsible and they were cowed by.him until late in the debate. He should have muted instead of speaking for 9 minutes more than Harris--10% extra of the 90 minutes went to his blathering and lies.
At the same time, those extra lies and blather made the contrast with VP Harris even greater. And DT made quite a lot of unforced errors that made him look even more ridiculous. Nobody asked him about pet-eating immigrants.
yeah , I thought the Oban wanking by Trump was .............was like dude you are seriously out of touch if you think someone like that is a great role model or someone to tie yourself to their coat tails.........the former mistake of a President is an idiot.........maybe they gave him the mic because they knew let rav he would dig his grave deeper.
Nigel B -- Your last sentence is what's ringing in my ears for over eight (!!!) years now. How anybody wouldn't be utterly repulsed by this man is incomprehensible. That there are people who would vote for him -- even now -- is indeed deeply troubling. And they'll be there after Kamala wins. Racists, white supremacists, those who love authoritarians, misogynists, rich self-serving narcicists, evangelical christians, and the simply stupid... Before Trump, I didn't know how many of them there are.
Yep, Trevor Noah’s black light comment. Now we know who are friends are
Exactly so, Nigel!
Also, a few things where even Robert Reich gives tRumputin, to my utter surprise, much of a credit is about economy and immigration. Economy? You mean the one the putinist anti-American usurper tRump stole from President Obama and destroyed, especially during covid19 pandemic when because of his premeditated negligence million Americans died, not to even mention his billion gifts to the billionaire parasites? The economy that with President Biden's leadership has never been stronger in a half a century, having reversed tRumputin's devastation, is, somehow, "tRump's advantage"???????????
Immigration? How about asking - who allowed tRumps immigration to America? In America, the only real Natives are Native American First Nations, nobody else!!! I know that all these issues are too "hard" of the truth for much too many white-supremacist-bigoted-self-declared heterosexual-only American men and women, but these hard facts are the facts!
Vice President-to-be President Kamala Harris fully triumphed in the debate as she pretty much always does anywhere! A mere comparison of the convicted felon and adjudicated rapist tRumputin to the successful prosecutor and justice servant Kamala Harris is insulting!
What IS really dumbfounding is that USA, "courtesy of" so-called supreme court's 6 bigots - found itself yet again facing the anti-American aggressor tRumputin - instead of him being imprisoned already.
It bothered me as well. What happened to the muting of the mics?
You're absolutely correct!! Trump is not the problem, the problem being that 73 million US adults voted for him in2020.
I actually was delighted that the moderators let him spew a few extra rants. He was in full-on meltdown when they let him have his few extra minutes. And thus the moderators let him expose his lack of self-control, tangential thinking, and belief in bizarre stories. It only made Kamala look better by comparison. I laughed and laughed.
It’s not a stretch to understand why the moderators couldn’t just turn off Trump’s mic when he rattled on and on. He’s like a snake; he hypnotizes you with his eyes And then proceeds to bite with his nasty endless rattling lies. I can’t wait until the ground opens to swallow this failed abortion.
We are being saved by women of color. My deep, deep thanks.
Generations of women enduring terrible suffering have gifted the US with such women Warriors. They will save us all.
Don't Forget The Indigenous Women That Have Always Been Warriors... This Goes Back To PreHistory...
I most certainly will never forget such warrior women. This is why my comment was purposely open weave. Women from all backgrounds still suffer in all societies historically rooted in colonialist structured abuses of power. Hence the heinous continuing global rise of Femicide.
That is not surprising.
Excellent!!!
Yes. She knocked it outta the park. He sounded like a raging idiot.
Vice President Harris demonstrated once and for all that she’s presidential material. She hung him with her own words. Her experience as a prosecutor was on display tonight.
That should be the first and last debate. Trump is completely outclassed and over-matched against Harris. She owned him EVERY time she kicked his ego just to set him off. His phone is going to catch hell tonight.
Kamala offered a vision for the future. Trump kept rehashing old petty grievances.
Now it's Bye Don time! On a t-shirt here 👇🤣
libtees-2.creator-spring.com/listing/bye-don24w
I think this race should be OVER.
No, it is NOT over! Complacency got him elected before. No letting up until the stain that is DJT is soundly defeated!
Don't discount the MAGA crowd! Many lack an education, and never learned how to tell the difference between facts and fiction.
They were shipped off to Sunday school. They learned the biggest lie of all, "the meek shall inherit the earth". Now they are detached from reality and are delusional, irrational thinkers the rest of their lives and are putty in the hands of their masters.
They're anything but "meek." Weak, yes. Meek, no. But mostly angry.
Yes, Religion and faith are opposite the scientific method, and lead to irrational behaviour. But behind it all, the US abondoned the uneducated when it allowed our corporations to send our labor to China, where wages are much lower than here. We can call them lazy, uneducated, etc, but the bottom line is that they were not respected, and brought into the economy.
Of course Trump doesn't care either, and gives tax breaks to the wealthy to make it even worse.
Many were left behind because the elites on both sides of the aisle either did not care, were not fully aware of the impact of their policies over time,, and/or too hooked into a corporate influenced worldview and values. The GOP was of course on the lead on this.
He IS a raging idiot.
Its hard for a "raging idiot" not to sound like a "raging idiot"!!
No pets were eaten during the presidential debate, but Trump was neutered by Taylor Swift's endorsements.
Brilliant remarks!
Brilliant!
As someone who is a citizen of Aotearoa/New Zealand and therefore doesn't get a vote in probably the most important election for the world (of which I am a citizen!) in this decade (century?) I do hope the citizens of the USA make the right decision and vote overwhelming for Harris and her team. I fear for my children and grandchildren if this was not the case.
I watch interviews with people in Australia and New Zealand and at first I was baffled as to why they follow our political news so closely and know our government far better than do a majority of US citizens. It took me a short while to learn that people around the world are terrified about a possible Trump second term. I supposed I just wasn’t truly aware that “America is the leader of the free world,” as many like to brag. I’m an elderly white woman who would consider relocating to Canada or “down under” if Trump were to win. None of them want old people as citizens but I would be happy to be a well-educated school or community volunteer.
I am also an older white woman and I have looked into leaving America. Since I am not wealthy, I too can volunteer to help any agency in another country. I pray VP Harris wins. Otherwise the world’s most dangerous man, as his niece calls him, will wreck even more havoc on us & the world.
I would welcome you, we have lots of work to do here in Aotearoa/NZ to push forward a progressive agenda.
I will definitely keep your beautiful country in mind. I haven’t found many countries that will let an older person immigrate. I have a PHD, but no $$. Will work. 😊
we need those who respect and want to preserve our democracy and our leadership on the world stage, to remain here and continue the fight. If all of us were too exit the country there would be no opposition left to fight for 250 year old Democratic Republic
That is “democratic” with a small D.
Just so you remember that a majority of millions of Americans have a heavy lift to make the right thing count. By raw count, we are making the right decision, over and over. There is vote-suppression sabotage at the State and County level. The governor of Florida has a special police force harassing voters who signed a petition to get abortion rights on the ballot. Please don't think all Americans are irrational!
And the governor & attorney general of Texas are acting like the gestapo & harassing Latinos who are legally registering people to vote, including absconding with their voting materials, cell phones, PCs, printers — but I haven’t heard of any white people having that happen. Racial bias and hatred. I don’t understand how they can get away with that behavior.
Can the DOJ do anything on that ? Or your own courts?
Good on you for raising this deliberately terrifying phenomenon. DeSantis is showing Floridians what a police state looks like. Let's hope enough of them get angry enough to throw him out.
I read a great analysis today from Elie Mystal in The Nation, detailing the last-minute lawsuits. Sadly, Elie is "realistic" about the Leo/McConnell saturated courts. But I am with you hoping that a "critical mass" of this political abuse finally wakes people up to just get mad enough to get voting done. Meanwhile, this looks hopeful: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4873961-debbie-mucarsel-powell-fundraising/
Thank you for the link. I’m not optimistic at all about defeating Scott, who always seems to squeeze by. But ‘tis to be hoped that any backlash to DeSantis’s unleashing of the police on unsuspecting petition signers will hurt Scott as collateral damage.
you got a real winner in Scott. He might be a space alien. If they will vote for Scott they will vote for Trump.
no we don't think that Mmerose. but what I think is emerging and down under here in NZ too.............money speaks, donors and lobbyists........its more like a chess game now as opposed to the best leaders, visions and ideas winning out. the world is full of peeps who shouldnt be leaders. there is an american chapter to my life............while I can't understand maga and republicans endorsing the Felon and The Sundance Kid.....I know so many who don't and lets hope they rally and prevail. Harris and Walz have me hoping for a better America......joy vs fear, forwards vs back, unity vs division, love vs hate.
I'm one of those in FL who signed the petition. And, grew up near Springfield, Ohio. Can't believe the craziness.
Mmerose, I second that emotion!
Michael, I live in the US and raise American children. I don’t get to vote as I am not yet a citizen. For a long time now, I feel the same way as you — that I have no say in the most important elections of the world even though I pay my taxes, pay into social security, pledge allegiance every time others around me recite it. We are basically second class citizens of this world watching MAGAs destroying themselves, this once-somewhat-sane country and taking the rest of us with it. (I live in a red state — so forgive the tinge of ‘sorry for myself’ tone. I not only live but raise 2 daughters of child-bearing age here in this state with no guarantee of their reproductive health rights.)
Exactly!! I always say - the good NONtRumputinist and yet better ANTItRumputinist Americans - never ever allow America become the terrorist putin's russia and those parts of post-communist eastern half of Europe influenced by him, such as tragical orban viktor's Hungary, erdogan's Turkey, region of most of countries of former Yugoslavia! Never ever allow America and Modern West become anything the terrorist putin of russia wants!!!
as a Kiwi too, I totally agree with Michael. We see some shades of Maga BS in Aotearoa NZ, but as Michael says, as a citizen of the world, beyond the world series without the world......this impacts all of us. And we are laughing that such a bozo could get so far..........and then we have our own Bozo's who got a long way too......and I am as disillusioned by their supporter as I am with thems that support Don The Con.
In your language (tongue in cheek alert!) is "bozo" spelled m-u-r-d-o-c-h? American baby-boomer is impressed by long linguistic/cultural reach of metaphor "Bozo." I was born in 1953, and i have only a vague memory of "Bozo the Clown," maybe in early TV children's show? A powerful, enduring "meme."
good call, i was born in 1957, and have no memory of Bozo as a character. Over time in my head it has come to mean someone who thinks he is a big deal that ain't, that thinks he is cool and intellectual but ain't........usually with lotsa thick outta control hair.......(think Boris Johnson but not blonde)......maybe it was a bad choice of word.
But generally empty head space and funny...as with tRump and some of our politicians, funny in a sad way, a way you laugh at and not with.
No, it's a great word! I'm pretty sure the origin was just a silly (empty-headed?) kiddie show clown, stereotypical circus get-up like our friend Ronald.
I get the “warm fuzzies” reading comments from sane people around the world! Love to you all and thank you for your good thoughts coming our way.
We here in the US are terrified of a trump dictatorship too. I'm terrified for my children. Voting yes, but also calling out the BS corporate media who keep sanewashing Trump's word salad, and working to make sure the mechanisms beyond the voting booth (clerks, electors, etc who certify elections) aren't being tampered with by the goons who want to see their fascist fantasies play out. It's a long two months to go...
If I had to come up with one word to describe The Felon’s performance this evening: Exposed.
Yup, pretty tricky one trick pony, but just so many same old tricks.
He had me laughing many times with the absurdities that spilled out of his mouth. Quite an entertainer he is, especially when he doesn't mean to be!
A very good night for democracy & positivity ! Great job, Kamala!!
I thought Trump stole at least 9 minutes from Kamala. When Trump said that Biden hadn't take the tarriffs off he had put on Chinese goods, I thought Kamala should blame him for the inflation then! Kamala didn't hit hard enough on the 5 trillion dollars that Donald rang up in debt. All in all I would say Kamala won and Trump lied continuously and has no plans! I think he plans on turning all that over to the heritage society and the 2025 gang.
The ABC's moderators were too impatient to interrupt her while yielding to tRumputin, even after saying "moving on to the next question". Kamala was going to tell off the facts to tRumputin but she wasn't given a chance by the moderators. Comparing to cnn's dana bash/jake tapper from the first debate, these ABC's moderators were trying here and there to be more impartial but with an aggressive psychopath such as tRumputin, it's a sloppy moderators' job unless the unabashed attitude is taken. For G-d's sakes, it's been a decade of his evil.
@ Robert Reich, I hope you, sir, don't take my previous comment as overly critical of you because I really like you and respect you as evidenced by my paid subscription to the Inequality Media Civic Action etc... I only reminded that tRumputin indeed has NO any factual advantages over Biden-Harris Administration- despite what MSM was shoving down our throats thinking we had amnesia of tRumputin's years and everything of his that followed. So, I only say, instead of regurgitating the pro-tRumputinist rhetoric of most unfortunately too much of MSM, we need to always counterpoint them with good facts about President Biden's Administration that was life-saving!!!
Frankly the extra 9 minutes he stole didn't do him much good. He only sank deeper into the mud.
Kamala Harris OWNED Donald J. Trump tonight! Right from the introduction, she wined him. He was off his game after she forced him to shake her hand and she told him her ‘correct’ way to say her name, which he never uttered the entire debate!
Harris destroyed Trump in every subject, every question, every answer to every question, and rebuttal. She kept feeding him ‘bait’ on every answer she gave and he went straight for it.
The icing on the cake was the endorsement by Taylor Swift, after the debate. That put the candles on her cane and lit them. Trump is sooo screwed.
Don’t assume anything until he is soundly defeated!
Ohhh, believe me. I definitely know that. I also know that “to assume anything makes an ‘ass out of u and me’!”
While I understand the exuberance, jokes, and high-fives, it all makes me very nervous. Many of us felt the same way—hopeful and confident—8 years ago. We then received the shock of our lives.
If you look at comments made by everyone—not just people who agree with you—many think it was a close debate. Debates aren’t known to change many people’s minds.
Also, in 2016 the only clue I had that DT might win was because he had *many* more followers on social media than the democratic nominee. The same is true again now. It is not even close.
Caution.
(For those of you still on the fence, this election is not about republicans vs democrats, red vs blue. it is about trying to preserve democracy vs the systematic dismantling of it.)
I don’t agree with everything kamala says. In fact I am downright disappointed that she has not been more vocal about a ceasefire and absolute end to all violence in the Middle East NOW. But perfect is the enemy of good and I am voting for her.
I feel no sense of complacence after tonight’s debate and you shouldn’t either. Don’t forget what happened in 2016. This is *not* over by any stretch.
Jas. K, you’re spot on in being concerned about complacency. As coach Walz might say, you don’t celebrate a win until the final whistle.
Thanks for this. Kamala winning is no "slam dunk". Yes, I'm relieved by her performance but the work continues.
Jas, I guess it’s not considered politic in a debate to say that the US President (or vice president) doesn’t have control over all world events. In fact, there are no points for observing that a president doesn’t have control of Congress or the Supreme Court. The Oval Office doesn’t come with a magic wand. Certainly our president does have a lot of influence, but autocrats and a GOP-controlled Congress have their own power and games.
Thank you.... Children absolutely need to be learning this in school! I've been noticing for awhile how many people talk as if the president is some combination of God and Santa Claus.
I loved it, Harris knocked it out of the park, but I would have preferred more active debunking of his bullshit by the so-called moderators (who treated his ravings as somehow, in some fantasy world, legitimate). The media has become utterly worthless.
Thanks for mentioning the media and moderators. For me the supposed moderation was somewhat MIA. Why was Trump allowed to respond out of turn netting him approximately nine extra minutes
? Not only was this off base from what I understand of the ‘rules’ of this debate but when Kamala asked politely at one point for the same consideration she was brushed off. Why were did his absolute untruths challenged more than once or twice?
Fortunately Kamala responded to the brush off with her usual grace and aplomb reaffirming the obvious difference between the two candidates..
Media at large please get with it.
The media is utterly useless. For them it’s not about journalism or facts or truth. It’s about clicks and views and selling airtime to advertisers.
Well, that's where it was great to watch the debate via Professor Reich's virtual watch party, where Reich would spread his hands and say "lie" when Trump was telling one. Most helpful.
That is how I watched it also. I think it made it much easier to stick with it. The moderators let Trump get away with unchallenged lies, running over his time and still not answerinf questions. Hearing Professor Reich's objections was like having sane company so I didn't have to turn off the debate in frustration.
It was a significant improvement over the last debate, which was completely void of any fact checking. Recent corporate mainstream media behavior has left me with very low expectations of them.
One way of looking at the effectiveness of an interchanged is turn off the sound. You will see a dour, mean, and defensive posture, while hers was bemused and thoughtful and measured. She spoke to the camera while he was fixated on her. He is soooo difficult to digest.
I’m a cynic. Even if Der Pumpkin Fuhrer loses, he’s just a symptom of a bigger problem in this sick country. One third wants to kill another third while the last third watches. https://youtu.be/jH9xcje_Dlw?feature=shared
I share your cynicism in that it is clear that one third are under an authoritarian magic spell that they will see a mirage of wonderfulness in place of the pitiful reality of Trump. But the last third watching have been watching medical security dissolve if something goes wrong with a pregnancy, and have been watching their basic voting rights sabotaged and harassed. (Can we get mad, people?) So you and me hope that last third don't just watch.
The problem is that one third have been left out of the benefits of allowing US companies to manufacture anywhere wages are low, and then sell where wages are high. They have lost their low education jobs to China and other countries. They are therefore easily hooked on the MAGA concept. They are easily swayed that tariff's are a great idea to benefit them, precisely because it raises the price of foreign made goods. And it seems like they are correct in this. Of course the city people with higher incomes will see their favored goods go up in price, like autos, cell phones, computers, TV's, and solar panels. Food might be a bit different, but a lot of food in the US is imported.
What they don't get is that the republicans still favor tax breaks for the corporations that have shifted their jobs overseas, and the multi-billionaires spawned by the use of foreign labor.
It was a good debate tonight. Kamala was On Point at All Times. It was Brilliant, just like You 🙏💯💙🇺🇸🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊
THANK YOU, JOE BIDEN FOR YOUR LONG DISTINGUISHED SERVICE TO THIS NATION AND FOR STEPPING DOWN TO LET YOUR VP, KAMALA HARRIS, LEAD YOUR PARTY! She EVISCERATED the obviously desperate bronze-tinged lying con-man, convicted felon, convicted sexual-assaulter, wanna-be dictator and TRAITOR to our country. She knocked it out of the park! How satisfying!
I hope Biden's distinguished service to this nation hasn't been completely extinguished yet.
Thank you for that, it was late in the evening when I wrote it. Corrected.
well said Rex.