I have a problem with the word gentleman, in English history, is a man entitled to bear arms but not included in the nobility. In its original and strict sense the term denoted a man of good family, deriving from the Latin word gentilis and invariably translated in English-Latin documents as generosus.
Being of good breeding is not a guarantee of good behavior. in fact some of the worst men in history were gentlemen.
You are correct. Yet the word does perpetuate sexism., does it not, and gentlewoman or gentle person has a different connotation.
When I was commissioned a 2nd Lt, I automatically become an officer and a gentleman, but manners are superficial and conditional, consideration, another story. Always considerate of those who deserve it, but it is not universal or unconditional nor are manners.
THE ENEMY INSURRECTIONIST ARE AT THE GATE, DEFEAT TREASONOUS , TERRORIST, AND CON REPUBLICONS EVERYWHERE AND JAIL CORRUPT AND TRAITOR RTRUMP AND CRONIES.THE ENEMY INSURRECTIONIST ARE AT THE GATE, DEFEAT TREASONOUS , TERRORIST, AND CON REPUBLICONS EVERYWHERE AND JAIL CORRUPT AND TRAITOR RTRUMP AND CRONIES. VOTE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS , AND RESTORE DEMOCRACY. YES, CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL, DANGEROUS, AND EXPENSIVE.
The former guy is now bleeding and making GOP congresspeople choose between him and doing their jobs on immigration, Ukraine, accepting jury verdicts, associating with obviously delusional and degenerating person. This is still January and it is becoming clear as day that he will further devolve. He will need to raise money for lawyers more than campaigning. The focus on his document treason and Covid response hasn’t yet been focused on.
I predict that the bone spurs will soon act up and he will need to withdraw to take care of them. Nikki Haley will be the last one standing. I wish she were a better person.
I go out on a limb, as if my opinion matters, and say he will not withdraw ever. This monster will hang on until the end. We don't know where that is, including if it's the election. Still there is work to do to defeat him at on election day. We yearn to see him a puddle, like the Wicked Witch of the West. "Most of her power resides in the creatures she controls." see Wikipedia
She will cut SS and Medicare and Medicaid and ditch the Affordable Care Act in a heartbeat. I do not trust any Republican other than Liz Cheney and Adam Kizinger.
Don't forget St Ronald Regan taxed our SS. People need to be reminded of that.
He has been "crowd-funding" to pay his bills. Therefore, America is Trump's personal ATM machine. Huckster, fraud, con-man and a following of those who do not care. It sickens me to see the Secret Service all around him as he exits the courthouses to go out and spread lies while they are doing their "protect POTUS" moves - the crime boss and mobster - at OUR expense!!! Sickening. Is America now the "Republican-Trump-crime family" bank and security force???
Interesting, DK....I read another comment today speculating that TFG's physical devolution will result in his withdrawal from the campaign. Given the mounting fines and the 91 felony indictments he's facing, it wouldn't be surprising if his over-stuffed, cheeseburger-obsessed corpus can't stand the strain.
Speaking of which, for anyone not already doing it, we all need to subscribe to https://substack.com/@jesscraven101 Chop Wood/Carry Water for a comprehensive daily roundup of actions beyond voting we can all do.
I read it every day. Jessica is indefatigable - it's astonishing how much work goes into every post. Personally, I can't keep up but I'm committed to acting on at least one of her suggestions a week.
I have to believe that if every one of us did just that much, the GOP agenda will be derailed, tRump will lose by a lot in November, Project 2025 will never happen. and eventually Heritage Foundation/Federalist Society/Judicial Watch/et al. will just wither and die (as they deserve).
Sure do like your dream John! Agree about Jessica, how she can shoehorn SO much stuff into one notice is beyond me….and she has an uplifting “we can do it” attitude that has a great vibe to it.
Rolyac, I sent it to just about everyone in my email contacts & asked that they forward it on to others, hoping if anyone is on the fence, or not aware of all that the current admin HAS done, this will give Biden/Harris a shout out & maybe boost the numbers who will vote to keep them as POTUS/VPOTUS.
In this day and age, I am rightly excited to see people doing the right thing instead of following the pied piper over the cliff. There are plenty of Trump supporters out there who would have sat on that jury and denied the validity of the first trial.
I'm not really sure about that, Tami: My hubby is a dyed in the wool Trumper and although he will still vote Trump, he was the first to say that when it comes to abortion, Republicans in Congress are on the wrong side of that issue. On E. Jean Carrol, he says things like "why did she wait so long?" or "it happened so long ago, why can't she just let it go".
I pointed out to him that actually, I would not let it go either, and that beyond the sexual assault, he has been defaming her, like he defames all women. And she sued him in 2019, when Trump wasn't yet 'president'. That is also an argument against Trump who stated that it is "the Biden Judiciary" going after him. It is clearly NOT, and he was found liable by a jury of his peers.
While Republicans in Congress defend the dirt bag, men who have a wife, a sister or a daughter are disgusted by rape. I believe that men who are attacking E. Jean are blinded by their allegiance to Trump and just cannot reconcile what he did with the image they cherish and nurture of him as being "sent by God".[For real!]
Lucky for you, he's not in that "mostly" group, Cécile! At least he halfway gets it! Sounds like you're helping him understand the rest. This Christo-fascism thing that's infecting people is really scary.
I have noted that he is getting rather quiet about Trump. Now, it is more "the border" and "the economy". He doesn't bring up Trump too much. I have more work to do...
Tami, no doubt about it. On January 6, 2021, hundreds of Trump's supporters, mostly male, raped Congress, and some have said that they would gladly do it again.
I had the same reaction, but I also think that men should be encouraged to do the right thing, since they tend to be the ones who cause the most suffering and destruction. Usually men will take what other men say more seriously than they will when women demand that they, as a group, should stop assaulting and raping women. Often when a woman points out a man's sexist behavior, it doesn't have the same impact as when another man or men point it out. We all benefit when all of us are respected and treated with decency.
Outstanding comment J Nol. Might I add, the notion of unconscious sexism, like systemic and unconscious racism. We are reared in a social environment in which status is assumed and reinforced, not consciously, but unconsciously. It takes a degree of enlightenment, and willingness to learn and moderate not only one's behavior but one's thoughts This applies to almost everything, and it is an uphill struggle
It is the environment that we live in. Some fish can live only in salt water, others in fresh water. A few, both.
We can't desalinate the oceans or salinate the lakes, but we can breed fish that are aware of both and can live comfortably in both.
Behavior that is acceptable in the locker room or powder room is not acceptable in public. The problem is those people who lack a conductor.
I had a friend who was a mental health clinician, and she told me that the only difference between a "normie" and a schizophrenic was that "normies" had a conductor.
We always consider possible trends for various demographic groups on juries…possible subliminal biases or tendencies. We ARE very happy to see that the men on this jury didn’t have a strain of defensive bias.. that is not a charge that “men” don't do the right thing…it is a statement that the case is strong and men who might have an incentive to be protective when unfair charges are lobbed at other men did NOT see unfairness to the defendan in this case! They saw a man trying to get away with something, and they are holding him accountable. That is a good thing.
No, KL. It is not sad at all. It is good to see that men on a jury or in the street are stepping up to speak against bullying. Every woman has a number of men around her. Fathers, husbands, sons.
Our CongressMEN, and even some Congresswomen are more agitated to support Trump no matter what. That is the real sad thing.
Dave, you are right. Not all men are like dirtbag donnie and I sincerely apologize to you. My male friends are kind and caring. They are respectful and support my fight to get abortion rights reinstated. They completely support a woman's right to choose health care for her own body and they, most importantly, would never condone rape. No one should be grouped together because of some really bad people.
Rape is the male go-to for punishing women. Ask any who have been raped by their husbands, especially during the breakup. Many men are disgusted by this. But my father asked me "how did you manage to get yourself raped?" I was 15, dad, and I met a rapist.
How about "Hey dad, how did you manage to not comfort your own child, call the cops on this sonofabitch, go to his parents, and explain what is going to happen to their son?"
And women have had to endure abuse for centuries. Maybe that is why the MAGA crowd is so misogynistic as a backlash to women who finally have had it and are speaking out. I would like to hear from any woman who defends TFG.
“Not all men” misses the point entirely. Women who are raped and murdered don’t care that it’s “not all men.” Stop with the male fragility and victimhood as a deflection tactic. We women are so tired of that. 🙄
Man to man, does not the sight of a scantily clad or naked woman arouse you?
Do you not enjoy porn ? 99% of porn users are men (Don't answer that one)
Is not penetration an act of aggression?
Is not warfare, sports like football, sexual surrogates?
What is at issue are biologically evolved mechanisms or traits. Evolved to perpetuate the species.
What makes us human, is our ability to control our natural impulses.
But the impulses are there, and religions the world over are formed around those impulses. The Abrahamic religions, in particular, are, patriarchal and thus misogynistic, in that the female is deemed a temptation to men and a servant to men, from Eve in the garden to , Paul and 1st Corinithians 13:24, to Orthodox Jewish women in the synagogue balcony, to women in hijabs, abaya's, chadors, niqabs and burkas.
“Only some men are empathetic toward women.” Tell us women something we DON’T know, for fuck’s sake. Daughter of a woman murdered by a MALE here. Her killer went to trial last month.
Rape is an expression of [the abuse of] power, not sexuality.
And it is a correct statistical statement that men carry the [physical & economic; tho likely not intellectual, relational, psychological, ...] power in a relationship more often than women.
But the accusation / attribution of rape should be to rapists, not to a gender - any more than to a race, a nationality, or a faith.
Men pit themselves against women by raping us. Place the blame rightly where it belongs. This is not a “both sides” argument. Males commit the vast majority of violence in the world. Facts.
Yes and the previous jury that awarded the $5 million was made up of three women and six men. I think that it's also worth pointing that all 18 jurors were selected from the random juror pool after going through Voir Dire where Trump's attorneys had the right to dismiss any juror they thought could not render a fair verdict. Trump now claiming the trials weren't fair to him is a slap in the face to our trial by jury system.
Think a bit about it Ted. As a man have you ever been sexually assaulted? The stats say about 60% or even more of women have been. You live in a physically/psychologically different world from almost every female around you.
Hahahaha! Roger, that was good! The point is you are asking. When a woman is raped, she has definitely not asked for it. When you ask, it is consensual. Otherwise, when you don't ask, it is rape.
But gender has a lot to do with what living in the world is like. Women experience it far differently than men do.
As pertains to sexual assault specifically, men don’t typically have it cross their minds as something they need to be worrying about happening to them. Women do. In all sorts of situations. In all sorts of situations, where it would never occurred with a man that they might be at risk.
Where men’s life experience may make them think of a certain situation as “Well, boys will be boys“ and dismiss it, a women’s experience would lead her to view it as “Here’s more of this oppressive sexist shit I need to deal with every fucking day.“
So when a jury that’s nearly 80% male finds another male should face a significant penalty for sexual assault, the gender make up of the jury is very significant.
The standard in this case was a "preponderance" of the evidence - "more likely than not." A criminal case would have been tougher to prove.
In 99% of the cases that I know about, the most effective defense is consent, which Trump did not use. Most cases rise and fall on credibility and the very notion that he didn't know her, when he was in a picture with her was impossible to overcome.
“Well, boys will be boys“ is not an effective defense unless it is "assault with a friendly weapon" "beyond a shadow of a doubt."
This is too serious an issue to play games with Ted. Unfortunately too often, gender does create unconscious bias but this case was about defamation rather than the charges in the original case, which takes it at least one step away from any such bias possibly intruding or influencing decision making by a Jury on this following case. Defamation Is defamation and bullying is bullying. But, please re-read Christopher’s comment above anyway.
Ted, you’re just the kind of man that the feminist commenters here hate because you don’t respond to their man hating dog whistles. Keep up the good work.
Men do not have to navigate the same world as women.
Whites do not have to navigate the same world as non whites
The ruling class do not have to navigate the same world as the rest of us.
The middle class does not have to navigate the same world as the homeless.
Myopia, tunnel vision is a universal problem, because we see the world through our own eyes and our own experiences, and thus have a tendency (that is a caveat) to project ourselves, our lives, our ego's, our id, onto others.
What helps is the person who has lived life on both ends of the candle.
In some cases that is impossible, but in some cases it is the order of things.
For instance there are those that "pass as white" but grew up in a non white family and community.
Immunity?? Suuure, let's give him immunity. Joe Stalin got immunity. Hitler certainly got immunity, Mussolini, Franco, Hirohito, Mao all got immunity, Putin and Kim Jong Un now enjoy immunity. The list goes on . . Why not our dear donald?
Today's verdict gave E. Jean Carroll more than the satisfaction of knowing she had won, a jury of Trump's peers awarded Ms. Carroll enough of Donnie Boy's money to make him finally realize that there was something more important than Donald John Trump, that being the difference between right and wrong. To quote a woman that loved to "Share," "Words are like weapons, they wound sometimes." What she was awarded sent a message to Trump, regardless if he was "Paying" attention. I watched a segment on CNN tonight. There were 5 women whose ages were most likely in their 40's and they were asked several questions related to the legal problems Trump was experiencing. What they said was just a little past shocking. They repeated Trump's favorite line, "It was a witch hunt." "The whole thing was nothing more than a political attack on President Trump." "What was being said made them mad because Trump is a good man." These women were little more than parrots, the ability to think was totally absent and they just had no clue as to what was really going on. Their attitude was as if they came from another country and Trump was their beloved king. It will be some time before Ms. Carroll receives any actual money from the Don, because he has a talent for delaying things. If nothing else, what he was subjected to today was a shock to his system. I find it hard to believe the man can control his mouth enough to stay out of the same courtroom as Ms. Carroll.
Unfortunately Trump has recruited a lot of uneducated, ignorant “ followers “, both male & female who do not possess critical thinking abilities. Plus PR & advertising strategies are based on repetition of slogans and implantation of ways of thinking regardless of truth, and Trump from the word go, has practiced those strategies. Eventually it becomes a form of brainwashing. Can even infect/affect better educated but psychologically or economically vulnerable individuals. Ever heard of Charles Manson? A cult is a cult and Trump is a cult leader.
But suspect he'll be PAYIN$ attention goin forward, long as he can keep his crimes straight in that sorry head. ;^)
I'm hopeful a sad page of American history, that of those 20-30%, whose notion of 'freedom' is the FREEDOM to DOMINATE others (First Americans, slaves, women, etc.) without legal consequence, is starting to be called by its true name, by the true American freedom lovers everywhere, who love the idea of a tolerant nation that stands for the equal value of all human spirits/souls/moral agents and the respect for equal enforcement of the laws that enable all our civil liberties.
I've been reading Freedom's Dominion, by Jefferson Cowie, 2022, a REAL Pulitzer Prize winner. Strongly suggest it. Better than anything I've read, it dissects our national pathology - that of two conflicting notions of 'American freedom'... one of which is evil, and still prevalent, for which Trump is the aspiring poster boy, but not the root cause. We have serious work to do to heal this country, and it starts with the correct diagnosis.
This pathology is not an American monopoly, however.
But a clear, widely understood diagnosis is a great start. Please read Freedom's Dominion - provides great contemporary context for Amendment 14 Section 3, too.
Think you will find it not as entirely surprising as well formulated, substantiated, communicated, and historically deeply rooted.
The thesis names our historical pathology, a mistaken venal urge, a drive for the 'freedom' to dominate, free of rules and law.
THIS is the correct re-reading of the Taylor thesis (the idea that an open frontier enforced democratic governance, since otherwise, everyone had the option to vote with their feet, and move west).
I believe we CAN be empowered by the insights (and reminders) on offer here - to help improve our condition.
Not a polly-anna type, there is some raw, red meat in this book.
But there are certain things to we need to really know well, before we understand in our bones, that there is no shortcut to the hard work between here, and desired progress in governance.
I believe his only talent is lying. He knows that if you keep telling people the same lie enough times they will start to believe it. Without his wealth he would have been incarcerated years ago!
Keith--That lie theory is what pushed Hitler to the top. Trump copied it as he did everything else that fascist did. I think Trump has been in his own prison for some time now. He exists for no one but himself. The man is friendless, no amount of money can pay your way out of that.
Keith...we are in agreement. Having spent many years around these people (openly abusive monied up bullies) the primary methodology to best deal with their behavior is to limit their exposure to society and reduce their ability to afford to delay justice/consequences for their actions (argue). Firstly, this is accomplished by removing their access to the general public (restricting their freedom of speech). They have repeatedly proven that they have abused this privilege. Secondly they have abused the right to participate within our free commerce system by ignoring and flaunting openly, the rules that govern the capitalist economic system. Thus, their access to funding/money or the ability to access money should be taken away. Thus relieving them of their capability to hire ambulance chasing attorneys and tying up the court system, government, and terrorizing innocents. If they abuse their freedoms as provided by the Constitution(s) and oaths of office they should be suspended from participation. When hockey players, break rules they get sent to the penalty box where they no longer have the option to play or be abusive. This is accomplished by a referee. Perhaps if life is a game where we need to employee referees and do away with our justice system at certain times? This guy has tied up and terrorized the most powerful nation of this earth (supposedly) and the best we can do is let him continue to dance around for 60+ years? The government needs to do its job to protect its' citizens...or...perhaps it needs to be changed. Not in the way that Trump wants...but in a way that is more inline with the Constitution, Bill of Rights and other timely national documents. Perhaps the government needs to consider hiring and empowering referees..."an official who watches a game or match closely to ensure that the rules are adhered to and (in some sports) to arbitrate on matters arising from the play". Swift justice to remove the perpetrator from the others that he has harmed. Allowing the game can then continue.
Donald, I didn’t see CNN’s interview. Were the five women chosen because they were Trump voters? To see what MAGA women thought of the verdict? Or has CNN jumped on the Trump bandwagon??
Marge--I'm not privy to the method through which they were picked. What I got from the whole mess they were randomly selected from people exiting the voting station.
Nice to know another read history, someone said he is counting on his second insurrection, so he can avoid all accountability. Melania his wife seems to be the most intelligent of all and staying out of the Fray . He must have a tight pre nuptial agreement for her to hang with a fat balding clown that wears orange makeup 💄.
Her friend-- sorry-- she has two last names that begin with W-- says that Melania will not change toward Trump. She said that Trump and Melania are similar and each knows the other very well, and it's-- it's like a business deal-- even for her. I do remember her saying something that brought it home to me-- that over the years of their friendship, Melania never learned her children's names.
What you said does not make sense. "Melania never learned her children's names."
????? Melania has one kid, Barron. Did you mean to say she never learned HIS children's names? She knows their names, or else she is dumb as a rock, never picks up a newspaper, or listens to the news. If she's THAT DUMB, she's too dumb even for Trump! If she's THAT OBTUSE, she must have a veil covering her grey matter that nothing can penetrate! What a pathetic bore she must be!
Of course. My mistake. I often find incorrect grammar in what I write but then too spellcheck will insert words that have no place at all. Oh well. If the message is understood then all is well.
I hope tRump is convicted in the election interference case and the documents case. tRump is such a danger to the country. I hope he is jailed for the rest of his life. Other people would not have received the preferential treatment that tRump has received. I hope he goes to jail with no way to communicate publicly.
I hope as well, so so much! But it isn’t going to happen. The US system is clearly corrupted, ironically in favour of the person who most loudly calls it out. I also hope I’m very very wrong.
it's rich that he seems to equate bullying, namecalling, character assassination, and malicious lying as "first amendment rights". much like the rest of the "christian" crowd who think people practicing other types or no types of spirituality or religion infringe on their "religious liberty". what insufferably willful ignorance and hypocrisy.
To understand such folks is, sadly, to pity them (as they're being exploited in the worst way - and likely at everyone's expense); here's to your freedom therefrom and/or thereof...
I guess, where there is life there is hope. Hard to imagine in this case though as likely a large proportion of them either can’t or don’t read and the rest are those who benefit from him.
Agree. Don't forget to throw in Patriot, a sound byte of Star Spangled Banner, and Old Glory flapping in the background while slinging an assult rifle over the belly. All narratives to prop up the fragile ego.
She deserves this victory, and these wins (Giuliani’s loss as well), in my humble opinion, are the little steps toward restoring some sense of good faith in the judicial branch.
I remember as a kid we were told bullies were not good people and that their behavior should be reported and that it should be stopped, if not always punished. Trump was clearly a bully his whole life and he is very good at it. I have heard that people think his ugly words and lies make him seem strong and powerful. It means he is a lying bully, that's it. He proved when president he is not competent and was so evil he got government employees to steal children from their parents as some kind of deterrent to people coming to this country to escape horrors Trump can't even imagine but would be OK permitting right here in the good old USA. Why is it white people in rural areas and other Republican strongholds are enamored by a grown-up bully, a guy acting like a spoiled toddler? Is that really the kind of person they want at the head of our country again, the ignorant fool who pretended COVID was nothing even though he got it and would have died had it not been for the emergency treatment that was available to him but not to most other people, particularly poor people, people like those white rural folks. What is their fascination? This is a serious illness in our nation and we don't seem to have doctors and others who can treat it. Trump is the vector of the disease now, but I am guessing it is by this point, endemic. Ugh!!
Susan I often have the same thought, but... as I understand it, there is a difference between narcissitic behaviour, which is learned and can be corrected, and a narcissistic personality disorder, which is an incurable mental illness.
Susan, the truth is that we seem to foster prolonged toddlerhood and keep electing toddlers who supposedly sound so strong when all they are doing is telling us what they want and throwing tantrums if they don't get it. I don't think there are so many toddler-adults, you know narcissists, but they seem to "rise to the top" like the scum on a pond (or fat on top of a homemade soup). Why do so many people think that stuff on top is the best part of the pond or soup? It isn't, but our media pumps them up and with their built-in narcissism, people see them as somehow special and worthy of holding an office. We could work harder to let the American people who drool over those narcissists know their secret; they are actors who care nothing for anyone because they don't have any energy left for caring after they tend to themselves. Now, how do we do that!
Good question. Narcissism is a relatively new diagnosis. The disorder has been around for centuries, (I personally think many kings & historic leaders- especially in the middle ages in Europe were narcissists- who else would have the
gall to believe everything belongs to them?) but I think people have always passed it off as ‘so and so’ is hard to get along with. Once you realize they all have the same behaviors you run in the opposite direction.
especially important for teenage girls to familiarize themselves with the behaviors of narcissists. The behaviors are easy to list, but how they manifest
is key. Probably the only worthwhile thing Trump
has ever done is to unknowingly make narcissism a topic of general discussion in America. He’s an
extreme case though, all narcissists aren’t that extreme.
I think Trump’s niece, Mary Trump, who wrote a biography of him, Too Much and Never Enough, is a psychologist and discusses that very subject in her book.
There do seem to be more narcissists in the world. I don't know if people are born that way, but I believe at least in part, people become and stay that way because others around them allow it(starting as toddlers). I was raised by a narcissist and that was definitely the case. These people can also be very charming and persuasive when they want to be. They lie to individual people to control the narrative. We need to call it out and not let them get away with it.
The most dangerous combination is narcissism and wealth.
SWERL, I personally think narcissists are born the way they are because I believe it’s an inherited disorder. The experts haven’t reached that conclusion yet, but I think it’s just a matter of time.
I know there’s research on that issue being done right now.
I too was raised by a narcissist. My role in my family was to be the scapegoat and “helper.” By that I mean I was trained to immediately drop whatever I was doing and help the narcissists in my family if they were having a problem. I was also trained to accept blame on the narcissist’s behalf and to accept narcissistic abuse by not reacting to it. If I reacted
to it, I was the problem.
Once I was old enough to work and live on my own
I eventually realized most people don’t think the same way narcissists think. But that was a gradual realization I came to over time. I think of narcissists as having a brain that’s wired differently, because every perception they have is experienced through a warped filter. I’ve also more or less concluded that most Narcissists have no idea their behaviors aren’t “normal.”
Another reason I think they process information differently than most is because they all exhibit the same behaviors. There’s a spectrum of severity,
but it’s still essentially the same behavior. Not all narcissists are sadists like Trump is, but their ability to empathize is truncated. All narcissists firmly
believe they are never wrong about important
matters, which is why psychologists & psychiatrists
can’t change their way of thinking or their behavior.
As you pointed out, narcissism can be made better or worse by how they’re raised. But, as the saying
goes, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
All narcissists are to one degree or another chronically envious, controlling & manipulative. All narcissists are also delusional to some extent, which is why they’re such convincing liars. They literally delude themselves into believing their lies are truth.
I have no doubt that Donald Trump truly believes he has never met E.Jean Carroll. Unfortunately no one can prove to a narcissist they’re wrong. They simply won’t accept it, even if they’re shown proof. Narcissists are bullies and abusers. As children, narcissists are relentless in getting what they want. Some adults retain that relentlessness to the point that many people give in because of exhaustion-
they just want the narcissist to go away.
I’ll stop now. I’m sure I’ve told you more than you ever wanted to know about narcissism. Needless
to say, narcissists who are world leaders and heads of state can be catastrophic for millions of people.
Figure on one appeal for sure, to the Supreme Court, Appellate Division -- which is what the intermediate appellate court is called in the weird nomenclature New York uses. And figure on them cutting back the punitive damages, because appellate courts almost always do that in these high-profile big-bucks cases. (For example, in a recent Roundup case in California, Hardeman v. Monsanto, the Court of Appeal knocked a $75 million punitives award down to a mere $20 million.) But I'd guess that's going to be the end of it. The New York Court of Appeals (a.k.a. "Supreme Court" in every other state) doesn't have to hear the case if they don't feel like it, and they're unlikely to feel like it. And even if the U.S. Supremes wanted to go to bat for Trump, which honestly they haven't shown much sign of lately, I doubt if they'd take this one, as it really doesn't present anything resembling a novel legal issue.
Many cases settle post judgment. Carroll may want her money ASAP.
I don't know about NY, but on appeal most courts will try to force mediation of the judgment. Interest in NY is 9%/year, so on the supersedeas, Trump will owe $20,500 in interest/day.
For Trump, the big case is yet to come. NYS is asking $370 MM.
As a creditor, in that event, Carroll can threaten a forced bankruptcy.
Settling it now would be the sort of thing that a sensible defendant who has competent lawyers and who pays attention to what they say might do. In this case, I'm not holding my breath. To Trump, I'd imagine "settle" means "back down," and I don't think that's on-brand for him. Also, he's already run off any lawyer who was willing to give him realistic advice, or capable of doing so.
Yup. That will work for a while, and then it won't, and he'll find Ms. Carroll making withdrawals from his bank accounts under a court order. He reminds me a bit of the Sovereign Citizen types who are so completely sure that all they have to do is point out to the judge that the gold fringe on the courtroom flag means that the court can only hear cases about boats, or that if they ask the judge to produce an oath of office he'll dismiss their case, or that they can't be prosecuted because their name appears in all caps on the charging document, and then they get all surprised and shocked when it doesn't work and a big burly bailiff drags their butts off to jail. Trump's immunity claim is right up there with those legal theories, and he at least manages to convey the impression of believing it just as much as the SovCits believe in theirs.
If he was sitting in a jail cell, and there were liens against all his holdings to pay her, we could relax and wait it out. He's counting on his next coup to be successful and he will not have to pay.
I just heard that he must put a significant part in an account held by the court while his appeals proceed. Also, since this is a civil case, he can't pardon himself. So maybe this will cost him something.
Hmmm, Geri, while watching the news, I wondered if any of the damages due to be paid out would be voided if one or the other of the litigants had passed away (thinking his delay delay delay tactics) & both of their ages—tho, to me, E. Jean is WAY more fit/healthy than TFFG. Not a lawyer, have no clue.
I was thinking of what tfg's "Brand" would actually be worth, if she was given thr rights to it. Because he does not have liquidity, as far as anyone knows.
It seems like it should, but I recently read about how the Taj Mahal casino went down, from not paying contractors, delaying law suits, and then not even paying his legal fees. And Trump even walked away with the golden toilet after that. He paid out $50M on his Trump University fraud in a class action suit, but he still profited over $50M. What is it taking so long on these judgements?
Thank you. Your post, the courage of E. Jean Carroll , and the bravery of this jury give a moment of vindication to all women, children, and men who have been sexually assaulted but have had no justice which is still often the case in this country.
Linda, thank you for acknowledging and reminding us that men, boys and girls, not just grown women, have all been the victims of sexual assault. This verdict is a victory for every American, including all the families of every victim.
Even trumpet 🎺 had to admit his lying is a Stupid waste of his Money. Put a Lein on everything he owns . Accelerate the appeals process so he has to PAY UP !!!
If there is a lesson thus far, it's ask if those rules hold true in all cases (Would his other creditors, e.g. a Deutsche Bank that lent him money & had every reason to see him a going concern, have an interest in posting such a bond i.e. if it means her claim is subordinated? Would any such thing come as a surprise?)
It depends on whether Deutsche Bank has a security interest in property. Secured lenders have a priority to the extent of their security. If the underlying asset is under water financially, the security interest is limited to the value of the asset. Debts over and above that are unsecured.
Caroll will go through a process of getting the judgment issued (usually 30 days) and then recording judgment liens on property. Recording the judgment lien will improve the priority of the claim in a bankruptcy and allow collection efforts.
It will be interesting to see if there is an effort to record the lien against campaign funds. Again, this is somewhat uncharted territory.
One of the collection efforts that is often quite annoying to defendants is the civil proceeding of a debtor exam. Essentially the court can require a judgment debtor to produce records showing the location, ownership, and extent of assets.
"Essentially the court can require a judgment debtor to produce records showing the location, ownership, and extent of assets."
Which may be too late in this case, i.e. if he's been compelled by the court to release his tax returns (and/or already ran off with the spoon/jumped over the moon/etc.)...(?)
Often we see Chapter 11 bankruptcies when individuals or companies are faced the prospect of being hounded for collections from multiple claims. Look at America's mayor and his path.
There are different games that go on in bankruptcy so the fun may continue. Should we be saying "7 come 11" for the 7th bankruptcy in a chapter 11?
I can't help but wonder if the Trumpsters will ever be able to comprehend that the first amendment guarantees your right to say whatever you want (with a few limits). It does NOT shield you from the CONSEQUENCES of what you say.
Daniel Solomon ; Someone commenting on the TV said that Ms. Habba was considered almost a "savant" ; such is her skill at manipulating and misrepresenting.
Actually happens frequently. We had a judge who fined lawyers to contribute to their favorite charities for minor infractions like the color of their clothes. When they couldn't prove they made a donation he'd hold a separate contempt hearing.
Tovarich МАГАт was sued, found culpable, and sanctioned for the kind of behavior with Ms Caroll that he bragged about on the Access Hollywood tape, just to make it all as clear for you all as it is to me.
I think it is important to note that the jury was made up of 7 MEN & 2 women!
Yes, that jumped out at me when I first read it and thought allllriiight!!! Thank you brothers for being do-right men!
SOME men ARE "gentlemen!" SOME men are NOT rape-enablers! Bravo, fellow Americans who keep hitting Bunkerboy with THE LAW!
I have a problem with the word gentleman, in English history, is a man entitled to bear arms but not included in the nobility. In its original and strict sense the term denoted a man of good family, deriving from the Latin word gentilis and invariably translated in English-Latin documents as generosus.
Being of good breeding is not a guarantee of good behavior. in fact some of the worst men in history were gentlemen.
I think these days, gentleman doesn't refer to position or wealth, but a man who is well mannered and considerate.
You are correct. Yet the word does perpetuate sexism., does it not, and gentlewoman or gentle person has a different connotation.
When I was commissioned a 2nd Lt, I automatically become an officer and a gentleman, but manners are superficial and conditional, consideration, another story. Always considerate of those who deserve it, but it is not universal or unconditional nor are manners.
Yes, and tRump is neither!
THE ENEMY INSURRECTIONIST ARE AT THE GATE, DEFEAT TREASONOUS , TERRORIST, AND CON REPUBLICONS EVERYWHERE AND JAIL CORRUPT AND TRAITOR RTRUMP AND CRONIES.THE ENEMY INSURRECTIONIST ARE AT THE GATE, DEFEAT TREASONOUS , TERRORIST, AND CON REPUBLICONS EVERYWHERE AND JAIL CORRUPT AND TRAITOR RTRUMP AND CRONIES. VOTE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS , AND RESTORE DEMOCRACY. YES, CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL, DANGEROUS, AND EXPENSIVE.
But please turn off your caps lock.
I like the bigger print.
Gary, would be kinda nice if we could control (to a degree) the font size on SubStack!
My computer easily changes the print size up or down.
If he wants to shout it at the top of his lungs, let him! I understand.
Vote progressives in senate and house.. vote Biden for president! We cannot take chances with Republican Heritage Foundation Project 2025.
The former guy is now bleeding and making GOP congresspeople choose between him and doing their jobs on immigration, Ukraine, accepting jury verdicts, associating with obviously delusional and degenerating person. This is still January and it is becoming clear as day that he will further devolve. He will need to raise money for lawyers more than campaigning. The focus on his document treason and Covid response hasn’t yet been focused on.
I predict that the bone spurs will soon act up and he will need to withdraw to take care of them. Nikki Haley will be the last one standing. I wish she were a better person.
I go out on a limb, as if my opinion matters, and say he will not withdraw ever. This monster will hang on until the end. We don't know where that is, including if it's the election. Still there is work to do to defeat him at on election day. We yearn to see him a puddle, like the Wicked Witch of the West. "Most of her power resides in the creatures she controls." see Wikipedia
Oh, Potter, when reading your comment I envisioned a tree limb with only his tiny fingers still attached like glue to it. 🤪
I especially like your comment on Nikki Haley.
I wish she were a better person, too. I wish there were a Republican who could be trusted NOT to follow the Heritage Society and its Project 2025 …
NO Republican in the race — and no “independent” either — is worth our trust this year … certainly not Nikki.
She will cut SS and Medicare and Medicaid and ditch the Affordable Care Act in a heartbeat. I do not trust any Republican other than Liz Cheney and Adam Kizinger.
Don't forget St Ronald Regan taxed our SS. People need to be reminded of that.
Maybe he is using campaign money to pay his legal expenses? Do we have another crime here?
Those being mind-controlled will send him money for legal expenses.
He has been "crowd-funding" to pay his bills. Therefore, America is Trump's personal ATM machine. Huckster, fraud, con-man and a following of those who do not care. It sickens me to see the Secret Service all around him as he exits the courthouses to go out and spread lies while they are doing their "protect POTUS" moves - the crime boss and mobster - at OUR expense!!! Sickening. Is America now the "Republican-Trump-crime family" bank and security force???
So mote it be
Merry meet, AH64!
Interesting, DK....I read another comment today speculating that TFG's physical devolution will result in his withdrawal from the campaign. Given the mounting fines and the 91 felony indictments he's facing, it wouldn't be surprising if his over-stuffed, cheeseburger-obsessed corpus can't stand the strain.
Yes, I too believe TRAITOR Trump's bone spurs will start acting up. He will probably find a "specialist" in Russia to take care of them very soon.
Pat, have you seen this? Found it to be a good and uplifting read:
https://brianhassett.com/2023/12/why-i-love-joe-biden/
Thanks, Barbara - That's the kind of read I need every day. I especially like the end where he links to "Things You Can Do Beyond Voting" https://brianhassett.com/2020/10/things-you-can-do-beyond-voting/
Speaking of which, for anyone not already doing it, we all need to subscribe to https://substack.com/@jesscraven101 Chop Wood/Carry Water for a comprehensive daily roundup of actions beyond voting we can all do.
I read it every day. Jessica is indefatigable - it's astonishing how much work goes into every post. Personally, I can't keep up but I'm committed to acting on at least one of her suggestions a week.
I have to believe that if every one of us did just that much, the GOP agenda will be derailed, tRump will lose by a lot in November, Project 2025 will never happen. and eventually Heritage Foundation/Federalist Society/Judicial Watch/et al. will just wither and die (as they deserve).
A boy can dream, right?
Sure do like your dream John! Agree about Jessica, how she can shoehorn SO much stuff into one notice is beyond me….and she has an uplifting “we can do it” attitude that has a great vibe to it.
Correction: The Federal minimum wage is still $7.25 which is about $15,000 a year.
Thanks for sharing; it’s excellent!
Thank you so much for the link. The article is really uplifting. 😀
Thanks for this. A good read with good info.
Thank you Barbara. Others...read it...it's worth your time.
Rolyac, I sent it to just about everyone in my email contacts & asked that they forward it on to others, hoping if anyone is on the fence, or not aware of all that the current admin HAS done, this will give Biden/Harris a shout out & maybe boost the numbers who will vote to keep them as POTUS/VPOTUS.
Excellent comment!! Needent be in all caps.
Is there any need to shriek and repeat?
Hmmm... reminds me of an early Aretha Franklin song.
Wow, I didn’t even realize that. Good for them!
It’s sad that some give extra accolades for men voting/doing the right thing.
In this day and age, I am rightly excited to see people doing the right thing instead of following the pied piper over the cliff. There are plenty of Trump supporters out there who would have sat on that jury and denied the validity of the first trial.
I'm not really sure about that, Tami: My hubby is a dyed in the wool Trumper and although he will still vote Trump, he was the first to say that when it comes to abortion, Republicans in Congress are on the wrong side of that issue. On E. Jean Carrol, he says things like "why did she wait so long?" or "it happened so long ago, why can't she just let it go".
I pointed out to him that actually, I would not let it go either, and that beyond the sexual assault, he has been defaming her, like he defames all women. And she sued him in 2019, when Trump wasn't yet 'president'. That is also an argument against Trump who stated that it is "the Biden Judiciary" going after him. It is clearly NOT, and he was found liable by a jury of his peers.
While Republicans in Congress defend the dirt bag, men who have a wife, a sister or a daughter are disgusted by rape. I believe that men who are attacking E. Jean are blinded by their allegiance to Trump and just cannot reconcile what he did with the image they cherish and nurture of him as being "sent by God".[For real!]
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-iowa-caucuses-video-god-b2478729.html
Maybe it is time for real Christians to shout :"BLASPHEMY!"
[I am waiting].
Lucky for you, he's not in that "mostly" group, Cécile! At least he halfway gets it! Sounds like you're helping him understand the rest. This Christo-fascism thing that's infecting people is really scary.
I have noted that he is getting rather quiet about Trump. Now, it is more "the border" and "the economy". He doesn't bring up Trump too much. I have more work to do...
Tami, no doubt about it. On January 6, 2021, hundreds of Trump's supporters, mostly male, raped Congress, and some have said that they would gladly do it again.
I had the same reaction, but I also think that men should be encouraged to do the right thing, since they tend to be the ones who cause the most suffering and destruction. Usually men will take what other men say more seriously than they will when women demand that they, as a group, should stop assaulting and raping women. Often when a woman points out a man's sexist behavior, it doesn't have the same impact as when another man or men point it out. We all benefit when all of us are respected and treated with decency.
Outstanding comment J Nol. Might I add, the notion of unconscious sexism, like systemic and unconscious racism. We are reared in a social environment in which status is assumed and reinforced, not consciously, but unconsciously. It takes a degree of enlightenment, and willingness to learn and moderate not only one's behavior but one's thoughts This applies to almost everything, and it is an uphill struggle
It is the environment that we live in. Some fish can live only in salt water, others in fresh water. A few, both.
We can't desalinate the oceans or salinate the lakes, but we can breed fish that are aware of both and can live comfortably in both.
Behavior that is acceptable in the locker room or powder room is not acceptable in public. The problem is those people who lack a conductor.
I had a friend who was a mental health clinician, and she told me that the only difference between a "normie" and a schizophrenic was that "normies" had a conductor.
Trump does not have a conductor.
We always consider possible trends for various demographic groups on juries…possible subliminal biases or tendencies. We ARE very happy to see that the men on this jury didn’t have a strain of defensive bias.. that is not a charge that “men” don't do the right thing…it is a statement that the case is strong and men who might have an incentive to be protective when unfair charges are lobbed at other men did NOT see unfairness to the defendan in this case! They saw a man trying to get away with something, and they are holding him accountable. That is a good thing.
j
Excellent point, Pat!
No, KL. It is not sad at all. It is good to see that men on a jury or in the street are stepping up to speak against bullying. Every woman has a number of men around her. Fathers, husbands, sons.
Our CongressMEN, and even some Congresswomen are more agitated to support Trump no matter what. That is the real sad thing.
Not really when others are quick to paint all men with the same brush.
Dave, you are right. Not all men are like dirtbag donnie and I sincerely apologize to you. My male friends are kind and caring. They are respectful and support my fight to get abortion rights reinstated. They completely support a woman's right to choose health care for her own body and they, most importantly, would never condone rape. No one should be grouped together because of some really bad people.
Rape is the male go-to for punishing women. Ask any who have been raped by their husbands, especially during the breakup. Many men are disgusted by this. But my father asked me "how did you manage to get yourself raped?" I was 15, dad, and I met a rapist.
How about "Hey dad, how did you manage to not comfort your own child, call the cops on this sonofabitch, go to his parents, and explain what is going to happen to their son?"
Wish there was another way to react other than "like." Sad or caring from facebook would be much more appropriate.
Oh,Jen, that is the saddest thing I have ever heard. So so sorry.
Yes, enough with the Boys will be boys mentality.
And women have had to endure abuse for centuries. Maybe that is why the MAGA crowd is so misogynistic as a backlash to women who finally have had it and are speaking out. I would like to hear from any woman who defends TFG.
I agree, Margaret! Who even came up with that stupid idea?
“Not all men” misses the point entirely. Women who are raped and murdered don’t care that it’s “not all men.” Stop with the male fragility and victimhood as a deflection tactic. We women are so tired of that. 🙄
I’m neither fragile nor a victim. But you do you.
Of course you’re not a victim, but you are fragile with your exclusive focus on “not all males.”
Man to man, does not the sight of a scantily clad or naked woman arouse you?
Do you not enjoy porn ? 99% of porn users are men (Don't answer that one)
Is not penetration an act of aggression?
Is not warfare, sports like football, sexual surrogates?
What is at issue are biologically evolved mechanisms or traits. Evolved to perpetuate the species.
What makes us human, is our ability to control our natural impulses.
But the impulses are there, and religions the world over are formed around those impulses. The Abrahamic religions, in particular, are, patriarchal and thus misogynistic, in that the female is deemed a temptation to men and a servant to men, from Eve in the garden to , Paul and 1st Corinithians 13:24, to Orthodox Jewish women in the synagogue balcony, to women in hijabs, abaya's, chadors, niqabs and burkas.
The question also has to be asked...Why were there so many men on the jury? That seems by selection of the defense.
Not necessarily. As stated by Pat O’Brien above, careful consideration is given to the demographics of potential jurors.
Only some men might tend to feel somewhat sympathetic toward an accused rapist giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Once again, men AND women are capable of sensing a false accusation. Not just men.
“Only some men are empathetic toward women.” Tell us women something we DON’T know, for fuck’s sake. Daughter of a woman murdered by a MALE here. Her killer went to trial last month.
Still, we’ll get further as a society if we don’t pit women against men. Enough with the divisiveness!!
Rape is an expression of [the abuse of] power, not sexuality.
And it is a correct statistical statement that men carry the [physical & economic; tho likely not intellectual, relational, psychological, ...] power in a relationship more often than women.
But the accusation / attribution of rape should be to rapists, not to a gender - any more than to a race, a nationality, or a faith.
Mark, yes, and that is why I refer to the January 6 assault of Congress as rape.
Men pit themselves against women by raping us. Place the blame rightly where it belongs. This is not a “both sides” argument. Males commit the vast majority of violence in the world. Facts.
There is a moral principle about collective blame and/or punishment, that we agree on, yes?
I wonder how many women have been accused of rape?
Quit with the deflection tactics. to women. The vast majority of those who rape (and murder) are MALE.
Vickie, would you mind rephrasing your statement to say that when women have raped, it reportedly has occurred in prison towards other women?
Nice! Love that!
Seven Enlightened men!!!
Feminists, stage right.
What do you mean by that "Feministists stage right" Roger?
Are you a Rush Limbaugh fan, perhaps?
I hope you aren't as sexually inadequate and as laden with insecurities as he.
STAGE RIGHT, IS WHERE ACTORS ENTER THE STAGE, TO THE LEFT OF THE AUDIENCE. I BELIEVE ROGER IS INVITING FEMENISTS TO COME FORWARD!
Thanks, not being a thespian I had no idea. By right I assume the audience right.
No. Stage right isxthecaudience''s left. Look it up.
Brilliant
Yes and the previous jury that awarded the $5 million was made up of three women and six men. I think that it's also worth pointing that all 18 jurors were selected from the random juror pool after going through Voir Dire where Trump's attorneys had the right to dismiss any juror they thought could not render a fair verdict. Trump now claiming the trials weren't fair to him is a slap in the face to our trial by jury system.
You are absolutely spot on!
Yes ; a jury mostly of his peers!
Why is that important?
Think a bit about it Ted. As a man have you ever been sexually assaulted? The stats say about 60% or even more of women have been. You live in a physically/psychologically different world from almost every female around you.
Unless you happen to be an alter boy….
Would a beautiful woman sexually assault me, please!
Sexual assault is most definitely not lovemaking and conflating the two is just perpetuating the myths about rape and what it is.
Hahahaha! Roger, that was good! The point is you are asking. When a woman is raped, she has definitely not asked for it. When you ask, it is consensual. Otherwise, when you don't ask, it is rape.
Not funny!
Thanks for unveiling yourself.
Yes, Roger doesn’t really understand what rape is really all about. At the least it’s designed to annihilate a person’s humanity.
Hence male rape of males, especially prevalent in prison, mid east, the Balkans, and Russia, at least in times of war.
I'm not exactly someone who just hatched, you know. In my view, to be suitable as a member of a jury in a lawsuit has nothing to do with gender.
But gender has a lot to do with what living in the world is like. Women experience it far differently than men do.
As pertains to sexual assault specifically, men don’t typically have it cross their minds as something they need to be worrying about happening to them. Women do. In all sorts of situations. In all sorts of situations, where it would never occurred with a man that they might be at risk.
Where men’s life experience may make them think of a certain situation as “Well, boys will be boys“ and dismiss it, a women’s experience would lead her to view it as “Here’s more of this oppressive sexist shit I need to deal with every fucking day.“
So when a jury that’s nearly 80% male finds another male should face a significant penalty for sexual assault, the gender make up of the jury is very significant.
You “ get it” Christopher.
And I’m pretty sure “Ted Gaalen van” does to, but just wants to play games.
The standard in this case was a "preponderance" of the evidence - "more likely than not." A criminal case would have been tougher to prove.
In 99% of the cases that I know about, the most effective defense is consent, which Trump did not use. Most cases rise and fall on credibility and the very notion that he didn't know her, when he was in a picture with her was impossible to overcome.
“Well, boys will be boys“ is not an effective defense unless it is "assault with a friendly weapon" "beyond a shadow of a doubt."
Daniel, don't forget, he even confused her with one of his wives! I think it was Marla Maples.
@Daniel Solomon, now the money wall is here, does your wife still think he'll flee the country?
Women are different from men? Who knew?
Someone drank their happy juice this morning!! Pretty funny. Thanks for the laughs.
Well said Christopher. Thank you
Extremely perceptive comment, Christopher. Kudos to you!
So, in this case, we should object to the composition of the jury.
This is too serious an issue to play games with Ted. Unfortunately too often, gender does create unconscious bias but this case was about defamation rather than the charges in the original case, which takes it at least one step away from any such bias possibly intruding or influencing decision making by a Jury on this following case. Defamation Is defamation and bullying is bullying. But, please re-read Christopher’s comment above anyway.
Trump's constant need to belittle his opponents is a necessary move he employes to bring their image down to the swamp that he has created.
Preferably with Gloria Steinem as the jury forman. Oh, dear, I should have said forperson.
Why?
Ted, you’re just the kind of man that the feminist commenters here hate because you don’t respond to their man hating dog whistles. Keep up the good work.
Ouch!! I don't own a man hating dog whistle!!
I am a male and find you an obnoxious right wing troll.
The entitled class don't see it that way Pamela.
Men do not have to navigate the same world as women.
Whites do not have to navigate the same world as non whites
The ruling class do not have to navigate the same world as the rest of us.
The middle class does not have to navigate the same world as the homeless.
Myopia, tunnel vision is a universal problem, because we see the world through our own eyes and our own experiences, and thus have a tendency (that is a caveat) to project ourselves, our lives, our ego's, our id, onto others.
What helps is the person who has lived life on both ends of the candle.
In some cases that is impossible, but in some cases it is the order of things.
For instance there are those that "pass as white" but grew up in a non white family and community.
Mmm why, I wonder.
I didn't know that - wow - that is much more impressive than I thought!
I did not know that!
That's an even better win!!!
This couldn’t of happened to a more deserving person.
Immunity?? Suuure, let's give him immunity. Joe Stalin got immunity. Hitler certainly got immunity, Mussolini, Franco, Hirohito, Mao all got immunity, Putin and Kim Jong Un now enjoy immunity. The list goes on . . Why not our dear donald?
Well even Hitler got prison time. Trump should get at least what he got.
Today's verdict gave E. Jean Carroll more than the satisfaction of knowing she had won, a jury of Trump's peers awarded Ms. Carroll enough of Donnie Boy's money to make him finally realize that there was something more important than Donald John Trump, that being the difference between right and wrong. To quote a woman that loved to "Share," "Words are like weapons, they wound sometimes." What she was awarded sent a message to Trump, regardless if he was "Paying" attention. I watched a segment on CNN tonight. There were 5 women whose ages were most likely in their 40's and they were asked several questions related to the legal problems Trump was experiencing. What they said was just a little past shocking. They repeated Trump's favorite line, "It was a witch hunt." "The whole thing was nothing more than a political attack on President Trump." "What was being said made them mad because Trump is a good man." These women were little more than parrots, the ability to think was totally absent and they just had no clue as to what was really going on. Their attitude was as if they came from another country and Trump was their beloved king. It will be some time before Ms. Carroll receives any actual money from the Don, because he has a talent for delaying things. If nothing else, what he was subjected to today was a shock to his system. I find it hard to believe the man can control his mouth enough to stay out of the same courtroom as Ms. Carroll.
Unfortunately Trump has recruited a lot of uneducated, ignorant “ followers “, both male & female who do not possess critical thinking abilities. Plus PR & advertising strategies are based on repetition of slogans and implantation of ways of thinking regardless of truth, and Trump from the word go, has practiced those strategies. Eventually it becomes a form of brainwashing. Can even infect/affect better educated but psychologically or economically vulnerable individuals. Ever heard of Charles Manson? A cult is a cult and Trump is a cult leader.
Paula--They say, Charlie stopped several watches all at the same moment during the trial, just to prove his power. I find it difficult to believe.
I would like to know what shenanigans were pulled to make that happen!! Had to have been one of those really strong magnets or something.
Probably some one liner quoted from a Charlie “devotee”, passed around like a rumour.
So true!
But suspect he'll be PAYIN$ attention goin forward, long as he can keep his crimes straight in that sorry head. ;^)
I'm hopeful a sad page of American history, that of those 20-30%, whose notion of 'freedom' is the FREEDOM to DOMINATE others (First Americans, slaves, women, etc.) without legal consequence, is starting to be called by its true name, by the true American freedom lovers everywhere, who love the idea of a tolerant nation that stands for the equal value of all human spirits/souls/moral agents and the respect for equal enforcement of the laws that enable all our civil liberties.
I've been reading Freedom's Dominion, by Jefferson Cowie, 2022, a REAL Pulitzer Prize winner. Strongly suggest it. Better than anything I've read, it dissects our national pathology - that of two conflicting notions of 'American freedom'... one of which is evil, and still prevalent, for which Trump is the aspiring poster boy, but not the root cause. We have serious work to do to heal this country, and it starts with the correct diagnosis.
This pathology is not an American monopoly, however.
But a clear, widely understood diagnosis is a great start. Please read Freedom's Dominion - provides great contemporary context for Amendment 14 Section 3, too.
[edit - the link]
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=freedom%27s+dominion&i=stripbooks&crid=IEQ4X2JVSDSS&sprefix=Freedom%27s+dom%2Cstripbooks%2C237&ref=nb_sb_ss_fb_1_13
Mark, Freedom's Dominion offers a long overdue explanation for a lot of people's warped idea of freedom.
Glad you appreciated it too!
Mark--I look forward to the read.
Think you will find it not as entirely surprising as well formulated, substantiated, communicated, and historically deeply rooted.
The thesis names our historical pathology, a mistaken venal urge, a drive for the 'freedom' to dominate, free of rules and law.
THIS is the correct re-reading of the Taylor thesis (the idea that an open frontier enforced democratic governance, since otherwise, everyone had the option to vote with their feet, and move west).
I am getting Freedom's Dominion today!
I believe we CAN be empowered by the insights (and reminders) on offer here - to help improve our condition.
Not a polly-anna type, there is some raw, red meat in this book.
But there are certain things to we need to really know well, before we understand in our bones, that there is no shortcut to the hard work between here, and desired progress in governance.
I believe his only talent is lying. He knows that if you keep telling people the same lie enough times they will start to believe it. Without his wealth he would have been incarcerated years ago!
Keith--That lie theory is what pushed Hitler to the top. Trump copied it as he did everything else that fascist did. I think Trump has been in his own prison for some time now. He exists for no one but himself. The man is friendless, no amount of money can pay your way out of that.
Trump’s own transgressions will eventually lead to his demise!
Keith...we are in agreement. Having spent many years around these people (openly abusive monied up bullies) the primary methodology to best deal with their behavior is to limit their exposure to society and reduce their ability to afford to delay justice/consequences for their actions (argue). Firstly, this is accomplished by removing their access to the general public (restricting their freedom of speech). They have repeatedly proven that they have abused this privilege. Secondly they have abused the right to participate within our free commerce system by ignoring and flaunting openly, the rules that govern the capitalist economic system. Thus, their access to funding/money or the ability to access money should be taken away. Thus relieving them of their capability to hire ambulance chasing attorneys and tying up the court system, government, and terrorizing innocents. If they abuse their freedoms as provided by the Constitution(s) and oaths of office they should be suspended from participation. When hockey players, break rules they get sent to the penalty box where they no longer have the option to play or be abusive. This is accomplished by a referee. Perhaps if life is a game where we need to employee referees and do away with our justice system at certain times? This guy has tied up and terrorized the most powerful nation of this earth (supposedly) and the best we can do is let him continue to dance around for 60+ years? The government needs to do its job to protect its' citizens...or...perhaps it needs to be changed. Not in the way that Trump wants...but in a way that is more inline with the Constitution, Bill of Rights and other timely national documents. Perhaps the government needs to consider hiring and empowering referees..."an official who watches a game or match closely to ensure that the rules are adhered to and (in some sports) to arbitrate on matters arising from the play". Swift justice to remove the perpetrator from the others that he has harmed. Allowing the game can then continue.
Isn’t that what attorneys general are supposed to do? And district attorneys?
Accountability
Donald, I didn’t see CNN’s interview. Were the five women chosen because they were Trump voters? To see what MAGA women thought of the verdict? Or has CNN jumped on the Trump bandwagon??
Marge--I'm not privy to the method through which they were picked. What I got from the whole mess they were randomly selected from people exiting the voting station.
Well said!!
Nice to know another read history, someone said he is counting on his second insurrection, so he can avoid all accountability. Melania his wife seems to be the most intelligent of all and staying out of the Fray . He must have a tight pre nuptial agreement for her to hang with a fat balding clown that wears orange makeup 💄.
Her friend-- sorry-- she has two last names that begin with W-- says that Melania will not change toward Trump. She said that Trump and Melania are similar and each knows the other very well, and it's-- it's like a business deal-- even for her. I do remember her saying something that brought it home to me-- that over the years of their friendship, Melania never learned her children's names.
What you said does not make sense. "Melania never learned her children's names."
????? Melania has one kid, Barron. Did you mean to say she never learned HIS children's names? She knows their names, or else she is dumb as a rock, never picks up a newspaper, or listens to the news. If she's THAT DUMB, she's too dumb even for Trump! If she's THAT OBTUSE, she must have a veil covering her grey matter that nothing can penetrate! What a pathetic bore she must be!
The friend said Melania never learned her (the friends) children’s names.
I doubt Trump’s wives are picked for their brains. A man like that would only focus on their eye candy appeal, because it makes him look studly!
I think he got prison time before he'd started really excelling in evil.
"This could not have happened", that is- (A minor quibble... but 'Da Nile' & all that...)
Of course. My mistake. I often find incorrect grammar in what I write but then too spellcheck will insert words that have no place at all. Oh well. If the message is understood then all is well.
Of course ("auto-correct" does seem to have its way of insisting); cheers!
Grabbin em by the pussy just got really expensive!
As it should!
Fabulous comment
And the МАГАтs think so highly of his personal judgement they want to put the nuclear football in his hands!
The MAGA TRUMPERS are blind, deaf and DUMB when it comes to their Antichrist!
How about a new tome by The Orange 🍊 Rapist: “The Art Of The Loser, How to Turn a $5M Judgment into an an Additional $83.3M One”? 🙃
On behalf of brave and courageous survivors everywhere, I’m so happy that justice has been served! 😃
May this only be the beginning.
I hope tRump is convicted in the election interference case and the documents case. tRump is such a danger to the country. I hope he is jailed for the rest of his life. Other people would not have received the preferential treatment that tRump has received. I hope he goes to jail with no way to communicate publicly.
I hope as well, so so much! But it isn’t going to happen. The US system is clearly corrupted, ironically in favour of the person who most loudly calls it out. I also hope I’m very very wrong.
If there is a God, may She hear you and may the Devil play deaf!!
What happened today was just like "Humpty Dumpty."
You mean the Trumpty Humpty Dumpty?
Danny6--All I know is, the guy has a large crack in what was thought to be unbreakable.
YES
it's rich that he seems to equate bullying, namecalling, character assassination, and malicious lying as "first amendment rights". much like the rest of the "christian" crowd who think people practicing other types or no types of spirituality or religion infringe on their "religious liberty". what insufferably willful ignorance and hypocrisy.
LOL! : https://youtu.be/_gF9aPQF0MU?si=CdaKYmuibvAhlNbW
When I played this my cats went running out of the room. 😄
Must have been the penny whistle! Or whatever they call that thing that made the weird sound. A Kazoo or something like that.
great link! ;^)
Funny. All I could think while he sang was that he would have to move trump’s dirty diaper away to reach his bottom.
DZK ; Thanks for this!
LOL!!! That’s my new favorite song. 🤣
Disturbing! Some people actually feel this way!
Hilarious! Thanks for sharing that!
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22928900-one-nation-under-god
To understand such folks is, sadly, to pity them (as they're being exploited in the worst way - and likely at everyone's expense); here's to your freedom therefrom and/or thereof...
With any luck, some tRump worshippers may stumble on this and have a wake up of recognition.
I guess, where there is life there is hope. Hard to imagine in this case though as likely a large proportion of them either can’t or don’t read and the rest are those who benefit from him.
Agree. Don't forget to throw in Patriot, a sound byte of Star Spangled Banner, and Old Glory flapping in the background while slinging an assult rifle over the belly. All narratives to prop up the fragile ego.
Speaking of the SCOTUS 6.
You eloquently state this point!
She deserves this victory, and these wins (Giuliani’s loss as well), in my humble opinion, are the little steps toward restoring some sense of good faith in the judicial branch.
I remember as a kid we were told bullies were not good people and that their behavior should be reported and that it should be stopped, if not always punished. Trump was clearly a bully his whole life and he is very good at it. I have heard that people think his ugly words and lies make him seem strong and powerful. It means he is a lying bully, that's it. He proved when president he is not competent and was so evil he got government employees to steal children from their parents as some kind of deterrent to people coming to this country to escape horrors Trump can't even imagine but would be OK permitting right here in the good old USA. Why is it white people in rural areas and other Republican strongholds are enamored by a grown-up bully, a guy acting like a spoiled toddler? Is that really the kind of person they want at the head of our country again, the ignorant fool who pretended COVID was nothing even though he got it and would have died had it not been for the emergency treatment that was available to him but not to most other people, particularly poor people, people like those white rural folks. What is their fascination? This is a serious illness in our nation and we don't seem to have doctors and others who can treat it. Trump is the vector of the disease now, but I am guessing it is by this point, endemic. Ugh!!
Ruth, a LOT of people never grow up, especially narcissists. I’m beginning to think this country is overrun with narcissists.
Susan I often have the same thought, but... as I understand it, there is a difference between narcissitic behaviour, which is learned and can be corrected, and a narcissistic personality disorder, which is an incurable mental illness.
Susan, the truth is that we seem to foster prolonged toddlerhood and keep electing toddlers who supposedly sound so strong when all they are doing is telling us what they want and throwing tantrums if they don't get it. I don't think there are so many toddler-adults, you know narcissists, but they seem to "rise to the top" like the scum on a pond (or fat on top of a homemade soup). Why do so many people think that stuff on top is the best part of the pond or soup? It isn't, but our media pumps them up and with their built-in narcissism, people see them as somehow special and worthy of holding an office. We could work harder to let the American people who drool over those narcissists know their secret; they are actors who care nothing for anyone because they don't have any energy left for caring after they tend to themselves. Now, how do we do that!
.
Good question. Narcissism is a relatively new diagnosis. The disorder has been around for centuries, (I personally think many kings & historic leaders- especially in the middle ages in Europe were narcissists- who else would have the
gall to believe everything belongs to them?) but I think people have always passed it off as ‘so and so’ is hard to get along with. Once you realize they all have the same behaviors you run in the opposite direction.
especially important for teenage girls to familiarize themselves with the behaviors of narcissists. The behaviors are easy to list, but how they manifest
is key. Probably the only worthwhile thing Trump
has ever done is to unknowingly make narcissism a topic of general discussion in America. He’s an
extreme case though, all narcissists aren’t that extreme.
I think Trump’s niece, Mary Trump, who wrote a biography of him, Too Much and Never Enough, is a psychologist and discusses that very subject in her book.
There do seem to be more narcissists in the world. I don't know if people are born that way, but I believe at least in part, people become and stay that way because others around them allow it(starting as toddlers). I was raised by a narcissist and that was definitely the case. These people can also be very charming and persuasive when they want to be. They lie to individual people to control the narrative. We need to call it out and not let them get away with it.
The most dangerous combination is narcissism and wealth.
SWERL, I personally think narcissists are born the way they are because I believe it’s an inherited disorder. The experts haven’t reached that conclusion yet, but I think it’s just a matter of time.
I know there’s research on that issue being done right now.
I too was raised by a narcissist. My role in my family was to be the scapegoat and “helper.” By that I mean I was trained to immediately drop whatever I was doing and help the narcissists in my family if they were having a problem. I was also trained to accept blame on the narcissist’s behalf and to accept narcissistic abuse by not reacting to it. If I reacted
to it, I was the problem.
Once I was old enough to work and live on my own
I eventually realized most people don’t think the same way narcissists think. But that was a gradual realization I came to over time. I think of narcissists as having a brain that’s wired differently, because every perception they have is experienced through a warped filter. I’ve also more or less concluded that most Narcissists have no idea their behaviors aren’t “normal.”
Another reason I think they process information differently than most is because they all exhibit the same behaviors. There’s a spectrum of severity,
but it’s still essentially the same behavior. Not all narcissists are sadists like Trump is, but their ability to empathize is truncated. All narcissists firmly
believe they are never wrong about important
matters, which is why psychologists & psychiatrists
can’t change their way of thinking or their behavior.
As you pointed out, narcissism can be made better or worse by how they’re raised. But, as the saying
goes, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
All narcissists are to one degree or another chronically envious, controlling & manipulative. All narcissists are also delusional to some extent, which is why they’re such convincing liars. They literally delude themselves into believing their lies are truth.
I have no doubt that Donald Trump truly believes he has never met E.Jean Carroll. Unfortunately no one can prove to a narcissist they’re wrong. They simply won’t accept it, even if they’re shown proof. Narcissists are bullies and abusers. As children, narcissists are relentless in getting what they want. Some adults retain that relentlessness to the point that many people give in because of exhaustion-
they just want the narcissist to go away.
I’ll stop now. I’m sure I’ve told you more than you ever wanted to know about narcissism. Needless
to say, narcissists who are world leaders and heads of state can be catastrophic for millions of people.
You nailed it !
Ruth: Too many people are hoping for a Superman juvenile delinquent.. They, just like he, hate authority, unless They are wielding it.
Are we all going to die of old age before he actually has to pay out the money? Appeals, appeals, appeals?
Figure on one appeal for sure, to the Supreme Court, Appellate Division -- which is what the intermediate appellate court is called in the weird nomenclature New York uses. And figure on them cutting back the punitive damages, because appellate courts almost always do that in these high-profile big-bucks cases. (For example, in a recent Roundup case in California, Hardeman v. Monsanto, the Court of Appeal knocked a $75 million punitives award down to a mere $20 million.) But I'd guess that's going to be the end of it. The New York Court of Appeals (a.k.a. "Supreme Court" in every other state) doesn't have to hear the case if they don't feel like it, and they're unlikely to feel like it. And even if the U.S. Supremes wanted to go to bat for Trump, which honestly they haven't shown much sign of lately, I doubt if they'd take this one, as it really doesn't present anything resembling a novel legal issue.
Many cases settle post judgment. Carroll may want her money ASAP.
I don't know about NY, but on appeal most courts will try to force mediation of the judgment. Interest in NY is 9%/year, so on the supersedeas, Trump will owe $20,500 in interest/day.
For Trump, the big case is yet to come. NYS is asking $370 MM.
As a creditor, in that event, Carroll can threaten a forced bankruptcy.
Settling it now would be the sort of thing that a sensible defendant who has competent lawyers and who pays attention to what they say might do. In this case, I'm not holding my breath. To Trump, I'd imagine "settle" means "back down," and I don't think that's on-brand for him. Also, he's already run off any lawyer who was willing to give him realistic advice, or capable of doing so.
He will keep pretending he is "immune", until he isn't.
Yup. That will work for a while, and then it won't, and he'll find Ms. Carroll making withdrawals from his bank accounts under a court order. He reminds me a bit of the Sovereign Citizen types who are so completely sure that all they have to do is point out to the judge that the gold fringe on the courtroom flag means that the court can only hear cases about boats, or that if they ask the judge to produce an oath of office he'll dismiss their case, or that they can't be prosecuted because their name appears in all caps on the charging document, and then they get all surprised and shocked when it doesn't work and a big burly bailiff drags their butts off to jail. Trump's immunity claim is right up there with those legal theories, and he at least manages to convey the impression of believing it just as much as the SovCits believe in theirs.
And let’s not forget the fraud trial, which is much bigger. The decision is due soon.
Yes, a glacial pace indeed, for all the trials.
If he was sitting in a jail cell, and there were liens against all his holdings to pay her, we could relax and wait it out. He's counting on his next coup to be successful and he will not have to pay.
I just heard that he must put a significant part in an account held by the court while his appeals proceed. Also, since this is a civil case, he can't pardon himself. So maybe this will cost him something.
So Hope They Drive A Long Silver Rod into His Political Career Ince and For All I’m to old to go thru a Civil War...
Hmmm, Geri, while watching the news, I wondered if any of the damages due to be paid out would be voided if one or the other of the litigants had passed away (thinking his delay delay delay tactics) & both of their ages—tho, to me, E. Jean is WAY more fit/healthy than TFFG. Not a lawyer, have no clue.
It would go to her estate
He never pays. Someone else is going to have to do it for him.
But this is different, isn’t it? This is a legal judgment. That matters.
I was thinking of what tfg's "Brand" would actually be worth, if she was given thr rights to it. Because he does not have liquidity, as far as anyone knows.
But I am not a lawyer
The idea of her managing his brand makes my head explode.
Paula B. ; It most likely would make hers, too!
It seems like it should, but I recently read about how the Taj Mahal casino went down, from not paying contractors, delaying law suits, and then not even paying his legal fees. And Trump even walked away with the golden toilet after that. He paid out $50M on his Trump University fraud in a class action suit, but he still profited over $50M. What is it taking so long on these judgements?
I don’t know but it looks like things are starting to speed up. Fingers crossed.
They'll give her the rights to the 'Trump' brand...
= D
which should be relatively worthless with time, and continuing trends.
Thank you. Your post, the courage of E. Jean Carroll , and the bravery of this jury give a moment of vindication to all women, children, and men who have been sexually assaulted but have had no justice which is still often the case in this country.
Linda, thank you for acknowledging and reminding us that men, boys and girls, not just grown women, have all been the victims of sexual assault. This verdict is a victory for every American, including all the families of every victim.
Even trumpet 🎺 had to admit his lying is a Stupid waste of his Money. Put a Lein on everything he owns . Accelerate the appeals process so he has to PAY UP !!!
To appeal a civil verdict there is a requirement of a bond. Appeals are not free. Let's watch what goes on with bonding for appeal.
Nice to know that .
Makes sense!!!
Could the Legal System be Working for truth, Justice , and The American Way ???
If there is a lesson thus far, it's ask if those rules hold true in all cases (Would his other creditors, e.g. a Deutsche Bank that lent him money & had every reason to see him a going concern, have an interest in posting such a bond i.e. if it means her claim is subordinated? Would any such thing come as a surprise?)
It depends on whether Deutsche Bank has a security interest in property. Secured lenders have a priority to the extent of their security. If the underlying asset is under water financially, the security interest is limited to the value of the asset. Debts over and above that are unsecured.
Caroll will go through a process of getting the judgment issued (usually 30 days) and then recording judgment liens on property. Recording the judgment lien will improve the priority of the claim in a bankruptcy and allow collection efforts.
It will be interesting to see if there is an effort to record the lien against campaign funds. Again, this is somewhat uncharted territory.
One of the collection efforts that is often quite annoying to defendants is the civil proceeding of a debtor exam. Essentially the court can require a judgment debtor to produce records showing the location, ownership, and extent of assets.
"Essentially the court can require a judgment debtor to produce records showing the location, ownership, and extent of assets."
Which may be too late in this case, i.e. if he's been compelled by the court to release his tax returns (and/or already ran off with the spoon/jumped over the moon/etc.)...(?)
> = |
Often we see Chapter 11 bankruptcies when individuals or companies are faced the prospect of being hounded for collections from multiple claims. Look at America's mayor and his path.
There are different games that go on in bankruptcy so the fun may continue. Should we be saying "7 come 11" for the 7th bankruptcy in a chapter 11?
Rishi Chopra ; Liquidation can be fun.....
A really good point. And in this case it’s HUGE.
I can't help but wonder if the Trumpsters will ever be able to comprehend that the first amendment guarantees your right to say whatever you want (with a few limits). It does NOT shield you from the CONSEQUENCES of what you say.
No, they will NEVER comprehend it. The rules don’t apply to them until they do.
👍
Ooooh, good one, Greg.
"Hoist with his own petard" – William Shakespeare, Hamlet
You have to be mesmerized by the peculiar skill of Alina Habba.
Her adversary asked the jury for $24 million, and after Habba’s stirring summation, they came back with $83.3 million.
Daniel Solomon ; Someone commenting on the TV said that Ms. Habba was considered almost a "savant" ; such is her skill at manipulating and misrepresenting.
She was begging to be sanctioned. Judge Middleton, in SDFL sanctioned her almost $1MM in the HRC case.
It's not every day that you see a lawyer told you shut up and sit down. Or you will go to jail,! ; basically.
Actually happens frequently. We had a judge who fined lawyers to contribute to their favorite charities for minor infractions like the color of their clothes. When they couldn't prove they made a donation he'd hold a separate contempt hearing.
Here's my favorite case from my childhood. The judge jailed the DA, https://casetext.com/case/com-ex-rel-levine-v-fair
https://ccrjustice.org/home/what-we-do/our-cases/taylor-v-hayes
More likely -- sanctions.
Daniel Solomon ; I can't help but wonder what color clothes were unsuitable.
Ha ha!
And I'm worth say, 10 Billion Dollars, AT LEAST!
Oh, the jury can use that?
That’s great, Mark! Hoisted by his own petard.
Tovarich МАГАт was sued, found culpable, and sanctioned for the kind of behavior with Ms Caroll that he bragged about on the Access Hollywood tape, just to make it all as clear for you all as it is to me.
He may learn , too late, to stop opening his mouth and bragging ; about grabbing and how Rich he is.
I don’t think so, Laurie.
You are most likely right. It has been said that he can't help himself. Or control his impulses.
Indeed, "comeuppance" should have a new entry in the definition attributed to this nasty dirtbag misogynist. Hallelujah! justice prevails...
Thank you, Robert. Amen!