Unions built the middle class. Reagan was the beginning of the end for the middle class. I don't always agree with everything Unions do, but I firmly believe that without them, we will not have a strong middle class. Unions help fight against the corporate oligarchy and what might be coming: the fascist dictatorship. I have never worked a job that was unionized, but when I worked at company that had some Union workers, every time the Union won, the rest of us got better benefits as well. Unions help the workers instead of the corporate overlords.
Absolutely correct. Unions are essential to equalizing bargaining powers in large businesses. In small businesses, family owned, for instance, the shoe is on the other foot and the Unions have vastly superior financial clout. The problem for government has been to equalize bargaining power in businesses of different sizes - not an easy task by any means, but certainly an appropriate goal to strive for.
LeeAnn Young--couldn’t agree with you more about unions building the middle class in this country. In fact, the era of the Middle Class is beginning to be a short period of time that a lot of us vaguely remember. We got hoodwinked into building China’s MC and ours went out the window.
The things that make Corporate America break out in a cold sweat are regulations, fair taxes, and unions. And if truth be told, they have a lot to hide and we the people scare the hell out of them. They wield way too much power and influence in our politics, environment, health--you name it. It’s about time this 1% we keep hearing about who direct, manage and own the lion share of these corporations come out from behind the gates of their exclusive neighborhoods and join the human race.
My sister and formerly her husband, long story, work in theater tech. They stopped taking NON-union jobs LOOOONG ago! They do not WANT to work 16-hour days for 25 days in a row. (Yes, in theater that is a thing if you do not belong to a union. 12-hour days are good enough.)
The workers are making the profits. Without them how could there be profits. They deserve a piece of the pie. They deserve a living wage and without unions it doesn’t happen. Know one likes to go on a strike. Sadly, it is the only way to get their just due.
Betty, and the workers will have to get a huge raise to cover the cost of the strike that they will bear while the corporations will suffer nothing. So unfair!
My now ex-husband was a member of a union. We had a few strikes over the years. And, yes, initially there was not much benefit. But without the strike we would have fallen farther and farther behind. Each strike benefited the new people entering the work force. I don’t doubt others sacrificed for us just as we sacrificed. The union that Dr Reich is referring to has a lot of money in the strike fund. And they are asking for a large increase, so unless the strike goes on for a long period of time they might be ok. But yes. It isn’t fair. It is a terrible sacrifice but the alternatives is what happened to me working for 27 years in a non-union hospital. Suffice it to say I held out and stayed because of seniority, accumulated sick time and the pension. After about 20 years they froze the pension. They also kept cutting hours an we had years with no raise or 1% raises and they charged more for insurance premiums, raised deductibles and co-pays and co-insurance. We could be fired for any reason or no reason. No contract, no rights. I believe if we had a union, I would not be living under the poverty level today. I am 76. The CEO got a fat raise every year. None of it is fair.
Betty, you are so right about things being unfair. Unfortunately, We the People seem to always have an excuse for not making things more fair: there isn't enough money, not a will on the part of the people, if one does it, everyone else will want to do it too, etc. It is time we start making more demands for big moves toward fairness. Playing around the edges isn't working and just making the already rich far richer while they hurt the rest of us. Greed has become the primary business virtue. That is unacceptable! Now we've got to elect people who actually care about this nation and our people.
I worked in a non-union technical position in a "non-profit" hospital for years. Every year they said they had budget problems, so very tiny raises or no raises. I accepted it because we serve the sick people who depend on us. Then someone in Human Resources "accidentally" sent out an Excel spreadsheet with everyone's salaries. One of the contributing reasons we had budget problems was that the administrators and managers were getting astronomical salaries and bonuses. Their bonuses were more than my whole salary! My eyes were opened. By the way, the HR person did not last.
Corporate apologist spotted! You do realize that the 1% see YOU as a tool and not an actual human being? You are worth NOTHING to them, so I suggest you wise up and stop shilling for them so YOU can live with dignity.
Robert Brusca ; But who are making the profits? Certainly not the actual makers, (the workers). Fair wages would distribute the profits more equitably.
The architecture workers need to strike next. The pay is horrible and they gas light people into thinking it's a noble profession and therefore must work 100 week to prove you are worthy.
It's gaslighting. It is to limit competition. #ArchitecureOfficeUnions
Absolutely, a strike is warranted! Workers always get the short end of the stick unless they fight as a group for better wages & benefits! Better regulations on corporations would also help but that’s why the GOP always fights for deregulation! The Rethuglicans always support the greedy corporations & Oligarchs by demanding deregulations & no anti trust laws & they favor global monopolizations that hurt workers everywhere! There hasn’t been a level playing field since the likes of Nixon & Cowboy Reagan administrations destroyed the middle class to enrich their own pockets! More power to the UAW, I hope they manage to get 3/4ths of their demands at the very least! CEOs, upper management & shareholders need to give up some of their windfall profits to give more pay raises to workers! Let’s see what happens but it doesn’t seem like the writers & actors strike is getting anywhere! They seem to be trying to freeze them all out instead of negotiating a fair resolution!! It’s very disconcerting.
Fossil fuel billionaires have evaded taxes alright, but should in addition pay a punitive tax for all the damages they have caused in the havoc reeked by global heating.
Daniel, Science Fiction writer Robert Heinlein came up with a short form response to your comment. The word is "TANSTAAFL" and it stands for "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch." In one fashion or another everyone works for what he, she or whatever receives. How much someone should receive is a fair question, but NOTHING IS FREE!
The only free lunches are being grabbed up by the CEO's and management. There is no way to argue the millions per month salaries are "earned". No one can possibly work 1000 times harder than the average worker. These gross inequities have only grown grosser over the last few decades. Or was the old 100 times ratio just unfair to these poor managers?
I pretty much agree with you, but certain work, mostly inventive, intellectual or special skills mess up the arithmetic comparisons. Jobs and Wozniak designed and built the first Apple computer in a garage. Bill Gates created the operating system for the IBM PCs and all that followed using Intel chips. What should be the monetary value of their "work?" How hard do professional athletes work? I play golf occasionally, but Tiger Woods I ain't, and no amount of practice will place me at his level. Analogous examples exist in all sports. What about actors, actresses, professional models and musicians? Apart from being the wrong XY chromosome balance I don't expect to be competing with Taylor Swift any time soon!
Those are just a few examples I can think of at this late hour, but you see what I mean. Some people are gifted with natural abilities in appearance, intelligence, strength, physical reactions, artistic abilities that give them a huge advantage over virtually anyone else. The free market decrees that such persons do receive 1000 times more financial compensation than the rest of us. And as for management, after Wozniak semi retired and sold much of his Apple stock the BOD brought in new managers were to run APPLE in a more business like manner (new President from PepsiCo if I recall) and they almost destroyed the company! Jobs came back, quirky personality and all, and rehabilitated APPLE to the point that when he died APPLE was poised to become the largest capitalized corporation on the planet! What was the value of that management act? If stock prices and splits are considered, the free market tells us he done a pretty fair job! And the Auto Workers had nothing to do with any of the examples above.
Even top talent, as amazing as it can be, is grossly overpaid. You're right about the difficulty of doing the math for such comparisons. But, athletes are generally underpaid as compared to the big stars, and struggle along with just enough to cover all the insurance and medical expenses associated with high risk occupations... One way to measure the abilities of the greatest as compared the mediocre would be to take their height, weight, running speed, throwing ability, etc. I suspect that the top few are perhaps only 10 or 20% more fit than the rest, and that this i enough to make them shine.
I am an inventor myself, but did not happen to meet the right entrepenuers that I would need to market my stuff. (I live in a remote place). But I respect the value of invention, and recognize that it is pivotal in the whole story of progress in creating products and thereby, jobs.
But, people in top positions typically come from well-off families, and, with the time and money to attend good colleges, have a leg up on the rest of the population when it comes to developing their skills and professions, and the play-time to come up with new ideas. Hard to do that when you're under financial stress.
Auto companies and other big corporations hire top management from the elite universities, and, as in your example of what happened after Jobs left, often get people who are slow, reckless or selfish to the point of destroying the companies under their care. Look at Enron for a glaring example.
Enjoy your work and your stance on our economy. I got Intrested in economics when I discovered my mother in church on a week day after my father was laid off at the Curtis Wright plant where he worked . She was praying for god to deliver us from economic catastrophe .
Ike was president and she put a lot of interest in some guy named Kennedy.
Once I understood what the economy was and interest rate then compound interest in mr millers math class.
Robert, there are many things that I realized I couldn’t control . I gave myself permission to not be godlike after reading Richard Freemen (the physicist who calculated the output of the trinity nuke (atomic) test ) The book title is :
“Surely Your Joking Mr. Freeman “
Perhaps you read it ?
The book is mostly about his life loves frowning up in Jewish culture and his path through life.
Use the Day well here in the Villiages at 72 I play Water Volley ball daily.
Every day is Christmas 🎄 and I try to stay humble.
J Jerry McFadden I was a management analyst (civilian) for the army which is like being a priest in a whore house.
Looking forward to your next missive.
I’ll leave you with a song 🎶 : HURT by Johnny Cash.
Been there done, Done That, Got the Statistical course work to support Economics analysis. And Management Analysis , most systems are perverted to fit the desires of the person in charge desired outcome.
Met the chairman of the Fed as he testified before our subcommittee, witnessed first hand his exchange with congressman Barney Frank about credits default swaps and how legislation had been Passed to not require CDRS to actually have assets sequestered to back up the CDRS . This was a priori, to the the Big Short.
I agree with unions and unions striking. I would like to know, however, how people on a quickly diminishing SOCIAL SECURITY income, who are old and have been paying in all their lives can get a 40% raise. That’s what we need to even survive in this economy. On the measly COLAs we get now, a huge chunk of us will soon need to give up our houses and live in poverty.
Agree! It's frightening. My wife and I are poor* now and in the future we can easily lose our home in the not so distant future. We could really use a 40% Social Security increase but the "The Establishment" won't let that happen as that would mean they won't get that money.
* We aren't eligable for MediCaid or other programs because we're a hundred dollars above the minmum.
Find out what's possible. Read The Deficit Myth by Stephanie Kelton. Learn about MMT and ignore the fighting about how we can't afford to take care of our citizens. The "game " was set up by the wealthy so they would win.
Bob - What state do you live in? Having retired from an agency that administers Medicaid and other benefits, I know about eligibility nuances you might not be aware of. Here in Washington, there's one program that involves what's called an income "spend down" for people otherwise over the income limit. Simply put, if monthly income exceeds the limit by $100, the client must meet that amount in monthly medical expenses to qualify for Medicaid. Medicare premiums, well over $100 monthly at present, can easily meet the expense requirement. I'm pretty sure other states have this, too, but I'm not sure which ones.
I have a fairly decent SSI and with a small 401K in addition, I am able to survive. I did get approved for Med-i-Cal (CA version of Medicaid), but then was told that I had to spend above $2400/ mo. before I could qualify for benefits. That would be my monthly income, so how does that help? I didn't sign up.
You receive Social Security; either retirement, disability, and/or possibly a spousal benefit, but not SSI (Supplemental Security Income). SSI is for very low income people. Anyone with $2,400 monthly income (I know that's not much) and a 401K isn't eligible for SSI. Many people get the two programs confused, probably because they're both administered by the Social Security Administration (SSA). I'm not being snarky here, this is just FYI.
Pardon my old brain. Yes, regular Social Security, but I would have to spend the $2400 for at- home care, before the benefit would kick in. So how would I buy food or pay taxes or anything else?
Social Security was never meant to be a retirement program. It’s part of a three-legged stool, benefit donation, private savings and investments, and earnings or insurance plans. It was always meant to be a supplement to what we needed to accumulate over our working years.
You are absolutely right. It was meant to be a supplement to your own retirement dollars. It is pretty hard to make those dollars add up. The high earners and big corporations need to be paying their fair share!
Too bad no one told us that. We never had any money to save or invest anyway. We were both elementary teachers and camp counselors for kids in the summers.
But if you do work at what is your passion and live a life commiserate to your income you shouldn’t end up struggling in retirement because you could not save any extra money - that is the point of our discussions about policy, taxes, and corporations to name a few.
Ida May Fuller.Google her.From my fading memory she paid $24 in social security taxes,lived to be 100 years old and collected $22K in pension payments.
The young pay for the old through the social security system
Bob the janitor .I forget his real name but Google should take you there.Bought clothes at second hand shops,everybody helped him out.When he died he left $10 million or so to his community.Most of his life he had tried to put a few $$ into buying shares in companies,and reinvesting the dividends.
Today is exactly the same.The young pay for the old through the S/S system.Instead of saving up if I think Musk is involved in battery technology and the cars are the testing ground for that future,then! Borrow whatever you are comfortable with ( say$5K) what you "save" spend it to pay off that loan.Musk may be your employee of the month every month.Who knows what the shares will be worth in 40 years shall we say.
3 pillars.Social security payment, 401K,and hopefully millions of $$$$$$ from employee of the month, Musk and Tesla..As a bonus a house powered by solar and battery technology.
We tax the billionaires appropriately for the opportunities our society and governance provides for them to not only be wealthy, but stay wealthy and become wealthier, still. That’s how we give social security a raise. Our economic system has been forty plus years in the making. I figure, we’d have the most prosperous retirees in the world if we went after the wealthiest people and their estates for back taxes they SHOULD have been paying all along. But you know, Reagan and Nixon saw to it that the rich pay far less than this so they become the morbidly rich and Republicans and corporatist Democrats like Manchin balk at every proposal to bring balance to our economy. Don’t blame the unions for asking for what they’re owed while the haves keep getting more and more.
That's true taxing social security is just a plain filthy piece of legislation. I have that situation and get irritated every single year.
I paid social security out of my paycheck. Now I'm collecting social security but I make too much money so therefore I have to pay social security and Medicare taxes on my social security income.
Who wrote this piece of social security legislation some sadist billionaire or was it one of tRump's accountants?
I hope they don’t need to strike, and will support them when they do. I can’t wish a strike on hard working employees, regardless of how necessary it is.
I hope they will strike if their demands are not granted. But even more, I hope the union can come together with management and agree to fair wages and benefits for all employees, without having to go on strike.
My brother lives in Michigan he hopes they do not strike...there will be a lot of collateral damage to folks who will have nothing to gain from it and will just be harmed...So yeah go cheer for a strike. Put your head ..... in the sand or somewhere else. And you people claim to be enlightened and in favor of the worker- so many people -WORKERS!!!- are going to be hurt by this... you think its a game. If he loses his job ( not in the auto sector) will the UAW compensate him for his loss?
Yes. That happens. But do you think it is fair for someone else to work for less so someone else’s job may not be threatened? Those people who your brother is earning his living off of, directly or indirectly? This is capitalism. Hopefully he will find a way to get by. Unfortunately none of us have any guaranteed income. I found that out big time three times. This is why we need programs to help people in these circumstances.
Universal Basic Income is needed. It would change everything. It is possible and we should demand it. It is time for civilization to take this leap forward. It's the next logical and necessary advancement.
If they DO NOT strike, NOTHING will change! Their bosses will continue to spit on them and laugh as they scramble for the few crumbs they DO throw.
Unlike the recent strikes last Thanksgiving, I honstly cannot see the harm for everyday Americans if autoworkers do indeed strike. Call me niave if you must.
Robert Brusca, if the Big 3 contract offers to their employees were fair, they would accept them. The UAW will strike against the unacceptable. Perhaps, your barometer of fairness is out of whack. Let's lay blame where it belongs. Solidarity with doing what is just, does sometimes require sacrifice, but the big picture is important. All workers, unionized or not, benefit from unions standing up to worker exploitation. It creates pressure as other workers think about their worth and ask for higher wages. And the union workers with the newly won higher wages have more dollars to spend to keep other workers employed.
You correctly state that the "big picture" is important. It is, but you might raise your eyes a bit higher and look at small business owners, shop keepers, yard workers, many doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, small restaurant owners, housekeepers, car wash owners, franchisees, etc. I could go on, but the point is that all of them are small business owners who may hire no people or just a small few. Those are all part of out capitalistic system, and each and every one of them is a WORKER as well as an employer. Not everyone works for a GM or APPLE.
That's the problem with the liars party formerly Republican Party - greed. It really does hurt everybody. Why should unions have to strike? Why should people have to demand at least decent pay? I think if we look at it we see where the problem lies is the - Liars Party and the very rich. They are the problem. They are the reason unions are going to strike or are striking. Blaming the unions for the collateral damage is exactly what the Liars party and the very rich want you to believe. Believe me when I tell you it's a lie.
Yes collateral damage does happen. I know that very well. But at least if you're going to blame anybody point your finger in the right direction.
Yes, because of all the reasons you have so clearly stated. It's time the American people were made aware of the blatant greed of corporate America. This should be a large part of the Democratic campaign, speaking to those whose wages don't equate with corporate profit, and that's most of us.
What about the collateral damage to those not in the auto industry who would will see a downturn rip the Michigan economy and lose their jobs is that justified?
What about how the automakers have left Michigan high dry? You know, moving plants to states with substandard wages. Oh, and hollowing out Detroit because they could.
Labor, Union Labor, is a corner stone of a sound economy. Corporate greed only benefits the greedy.
It sounds like you're assuming the worst case scenario of a lengthy strike. That won't necessarily happen. Surely the local economy could withstand a short-term strike!
You're absolutely right there is going to be collateral damage. It sounds like the citizens of Michigan all need to get on their telephones and start contacting their Liars Party (formerly the Republican Party) representatives and tell them to push their rich black money donors into giving people decent wages instead of pocketing all the money for themselves.
The whole state of Michigan should go on strike in concert with the UAW.
I'm going to try this again. Collateral damage when unions strike does indeed happen. It happens because of corporate greed and the backing of the Liars party (formerly the Republican Party).
What about the collateral damage to those not in the auto industry who would will see a downturn rip the Michigan economy and lose their jobs is that justified?
So you would do nothing? Just take it (a declining rate of pay) just so you could maybe stay afloat another couple years? That's pretty pathetic. You ever heard the saying "a rising tide floats all boats?"
Unions built the middle class. Reagan was the beginning of the end for the middle class. I don't always agree with everything Unions do, but I firmly believe that without them, we will not have a strong middle class. Unions help fight against the corporate oligarchy and what might be coming: the fascist dictatorship. I have never worked a job that was unionized, but when I worked at company that had some Union workers, every time the Union won, the rest of us got better benefits as well. Unions help the workers instead of the corporate overlords.
Absolutely correct. Unions are essential to equalizing bargaining powers in large businesses. In small businesses, family owned, for instance, the shoe is on the other foot and the Unions have vastly superior financial clout. The problem for government has been to equalize bargaining power in businesses of different sizes - not an easy task by any means, but certainly an appropriate goal to strive for.
LeeAnn Young--couldn’t agree with you more about unions building the middle class in this country. In fact, the era of the Middle Class is beginning to be a short period of time that a lot of us vaguely remember. We got hoodwinked into building China’s MC and ours went out the window.
The things that make Corporate America break out in a cold sweat are regulations, fair taxes, and unions. And if truth be told, they have a lot to hide and we the people scare the hell out of them. They wield way too much power and influence in our politics, environment, health--you name it. It’s about time this 1% we keep hearing about who direct, manage and own the lion share of these corporations come out from behind the gates of their exclusive neighborhoods and join the human race.
Read the Walmart story. Sam Walton had to be told by his VP to give his workers a nickel per hour raise!
My sister and formerly her husband, long story, work in theater tech. They stopped taking NON-union jobs LOOOONG ago! They do not WANT to work 16-hour days for 25 days in a row. (Yes, in theater that is a thing if you do not belong to a union. 12-hour days are good enough.)
That’s exactly right- rising tide raises all boats
Unless the majority of the workers have got pre-drilled holes in the bottom of their boats, provided by the management.
Bingo, right on, sister.
yes, a strike is justified. The companies' behavior is outrageous.
Diane:
… but not surprising.
By Jove they are making profits here!! STOP IT!!
The workers are making the profits. Without them how could there be profits. They deserve a piece of the pie. They deserve a living wage and without unions it doesn’t happen. Know one likes to go on a strike. Sadly, it is the only way to get their just due.
Betty, and the workers will have to get a huge raise to cover the cost of the strike that they will bear while the corporations will suffer nothing. So unfair!
My now ex-husband was a member of a union. We had a few strikes over the years. And, yes, initially there was not much benefit. But without the strike we would have fallen farther and farther behind. Each strike benefited the new people entering the work force. I don’t doubt others sacrificed for us just as we sacrificed. The union that Dr Reich is referring to has a lot of money in the strike fund. And they are asking for a large increase, so unless the strike goes on for a long period of time they might be ok. But yes. It isn’t fair. It is a terrible sacrifice but the alternatives is what happened to me working for 27 years in a non-union hospital. Suffice it to say I held out and stayed because of seniority, accumulated sick time and the pension. After about 20 years they froze the pension. They also kept cutting hours an we had years with no raise or 1% raises and they charged more for insurance premiums, raised deductibles and co-pays and co-insurance. We could be fired for any reason or no reason. No contract, no rights. I believe if we had a union, I would not be living under the poverty level today. I am 76. The CEO got a fat raise every year. None of it is fair.
Betty, you are so right about things being unfair. Unfortunately, We the People seem to always have an excuse for not making things more fair: there isn't enough money, not a will on the part of the people, if one does it, everyone else will want to do it too, etc. It is time we start making more demands for big moves toward fairness. Playing around the edges isn't working and just making the already rich far richer while they hurt the rest of us. Greed has become the primary business virtue. That is unacceptable! Now we've got to elect people who actually care about this nation and our people.
I worked in a non-union technical position in a "non-profit" hospital for years. Every year they said they had budget problems, so very tiny raises or no raises. I accepted it because we serve the sick people who depend on us. Then someone in Human Resources "accidentally" sent out an Excel spreadsheet with everyone's salaries. One of the contributing reasons we had budget problems was that the administrators and managers were getting astronomical salaries and bonuses. Their bonuses were more than my whole salary! My eyes were opened. By the way, the HR person did not last.
The CEO making 21 million is pay is equal to about $6000 per hour.
wow..
"They are making profits" Robert, but only for THEMSELVES. That's called robbery in most jurisdictions.
Corporate greed kills and it's killing the American Dream. Pay the workers, not just the Fat Cats.
Corporate apologist spotted! You do realize that the 1% see YOU as a tool and not an actual human being? You are worth NOTHING to them, so I suggest you wise up and stop shilling for them so YOU can live with dignity.
Robert Brusca ; But who are making the profits? Certainly not the actual makers, (the workers). Fair wages would distribute the profits more equitably.
The architecture workers need to strike next. The pay is horrible and they gas light people into thinking it's a noble profession and therefore must work 100 week to prove you are worthy.
It's gaslighting. It is to limit competition. #ArchitecureOfficeUnions
Absolutely, a strike is warranted! Workers always get the short end of the stick unless they fight as a group for better wages & benefits! Better regulations on corporations would also help but that’s why the GOP always fights for deregulation! The Rethuglicans always support the greedy corporations & Oligarchs by demanding deregulations & no anti trust laws & they favor global monopolizations that hurt workers everywhere! There hasn’t been a level playing field since the likes of Nixon & Cowboy Reagan administrations destroyed the middle class to enrich their own pockets! More power to the UAW, I hope they manage to get 3/4ths of their demands at the very least! CEOs, upper management & shareholders need to give up some of their windfall profits to give more pay raises to workers! Let’s see what happens but it doesn’t seem like the writers & actors strike is getting anywhere! They seem to be trying to freeze them all out instead of negotiating a fair resolution!! It’s very disconcerting.
What’s gravy for the Goose should gravy for the Gander! I endorse equal pay raises IF the white collar get 40% pay the shop rays should get 40%.
Equal Per Cent increases for all.
Shop rats
Citizen 'J' is that name because of what you smoke? It seems so. Tyr taking a few economics courses.
You DO realize that, if obsolete fossil fuel billionaires PAID THE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS of back-taxes they owed, that we could afford:
1) Free education for all.
2) Free Medicare for all. (Remember: $500 pills cost CENTS to make.)
3) Likely even a BASE GUARANTEED SALARY for EVERY ADULT.
Please do not shill for the 1%. They HATE you.
Fossil fuel billionaires have evaded taxes alright, but should in addition pay a punitive tax for all the damages they have caused in the havoc reeked by global heating.
Daniel, Science Fiction writer Robert Heinlein came up with a short form response to your comment. The word is "TANSTAAFL" and it stands for "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch." In one fashion or another everyone works for what he, she or whatever receives. How much someone should receive is a fair question, but NOTHING IS FREE!
The only free lunches are being grabbed up by the CEO's and management. There is no way to argue the millions per month salaries are "earned". No one can possibly work 1000 times harder than the average worker. These gross inequities have only grown grosser over the last few decades. Or was the old 100 times ratio just unfair to these poor managers?
I pretty much agree with you, but certain work, mostly inventive, intellectual or special skills mess up the arithmetic comparisons. Jobs and Wozniak designed and built the first Apple computer in a garage. Bill Gates created the operating system for the IBM PCs and all that followed using Intel chips. What should be the monetary value of their "work?" How hard do professional athletes work? I play golf occasionally, but Tiger Woods I ain't, and no amount of practice will place me at his level. Analogous examples exist in all sports. What about actors, actresses, professional models and musicians? Apart from being the wrong XY chromosome balance I don't expect to be competing with Taylor Swift any time soon!
Those are just a few examples I can think of at this late hour, but you see what I mean. Some people are gifted with natural abilities in appearance, intelligence, strength, physical reactions, artistic abilities that give them a huge advantage over virtually anyone else. The free market decrees that such persons do receive 1000 times more financial compensation than the rest of us. And as for management, after Wozniak semi retired and sold much of his Apple stock the BOD brought in new managers were to run APPLE in a more business like manner (new President from PepsiCo if I recall) and they almost destroyed the company! Jobs came back, quirky personality and all, and rehabilitated APPLE to the point that when he died APPLE was poised to become the largest capitalized corporation on the planet! What was the value of that management act? If stock prices and splits are considered, the free market tells us he done a pretty fair job! And the Auto Workers had nothing to do with any of the examples above.
Even top talent, as amazing as it can be, is grossly overpaid. You're right about the difficulty of doing the math for such comparisons. But, athletes are generally underpaid as compared to the big stars, and struggle along with just enough to cover all the insurance and medical expenses associated with high risk occupations... One way to measure the abilities of the greatest as compared the mediocre would be to take their height, weight, running speed, throwing ability, etc. I suspect that the top few are perhaps only 10 or 20% more fit than the rest, and that this i enough to make them shine.
I am an inventor myself, but did not happen to meet the right entrepenuers that I would need to market my stuff. (I live in a remote place). But I respect the value of invention, and recognize that it is pivotal in the whole story of progress in creating products and thereby, jobs.
But, people in top positions typically come from well-off families, and, with the time and money to attend good colleges, have a leg up on the rest of the population when it comes to developing their skills and professions, and the play-time to come up with new ideas. Hard to do that when you're under financial stress.
Auto companies and other big corporations hire top management from the elite universities, and, as in your example of what happened after Jobs left, often get people who are slow, reckless or selfish to the point of destroying the companies under their care. Look at Enron for a glaring example.
Billionaires and corporations are getting a free lunch every time they get a bail out and don't pay taxes.
No, I had no idea that the fossil fuel billionaires owed that much collectively in back taxes. Poor Hunter got dinged for pittance amount.
Please refrain from nasty comments. It’s very important that this forum be a safe and civil place for people to express their views.
Enjoy your work and your stance on our economy. I got Intrested in economics when I discovered my mother in church on a week day after my father was laid off at the Curtis Wright plant where he worked . She was praying for god to deliver us from economic catastrophe .
Ike was president and she put a lot of interest in some guy named Kennedy.
Once I understood what the economy was and interest rate then compound interest in mr millers math class.
Thank You 🙏
Robert, there are many things that I realized I couldn’t control . I gave myself permission to not be godlike after reading Richard Freemen (the physicist who calculated the output of the trinity nuke (atomic) test ) The book title is :
“Surely Your Joking Mr. Freeman “
Perhaps you read it ?
The book is mostly about his life loves frowning up in Jewish culture and his path through life.
Use the Day well here in the Villiages at 72 I play Water Volley ball daily.
Every day is Christmas 🎄 and I try to stay humble.
J Jerry McFadden I was a management analyst (civilian) for the army which is like being a priest in a whore house.
Looking forward to your next missive.
I’ll leave you with a song 🎶 : HURT by Johnny Cash.
Been there done, Done That, Got the Statistical course work to support Economics analysis. And Management Analysis , most systems are perverted to fit the desires of the person in charge desired outcome.
Met the chairman of the Fed as he testified before our subcommittee, witnessed first hand his exchange with congressman Barney Frank about credits default swaps and how legislation had been Passed to not require CDRS to actually have assets sequestered to back up the CDRS . This was a priori, to the the Big Short.
Me or Him ?
Analysis and having advanced degrees are two separate areas of life one is not necessary for the other to exist.
Can’t teach curiosity or ability.
I guess he has an empty life I hope not but...
We are Golden -Crosby, still Nash and young
Joni Mitchell
I agree with unions and unions striking. I would like to know, however, how people on a quickly diminishing SOCIAL SECURITY income, who are old and have been paying in all their lives can get a 40% raise. That’s what we need to even survive in this economy. On the measly COLAs we get now, a huge chunk of us will soon need to give up our houses and live in poverty.
Agree! It's frightening. My wife and I are poor* now and in the future we can easily lose our home in the not so distant future. We could really use a 40% Social Security increase but the "The Establishment" won't let that happen as that would mean they won't get that money.
* We aren't eligable for MediCaid or other programs because we're a hundred dollars above the minmum.
Find out what's possible. Read The Deficit Myth by Stephanie Kelton. Learn about MMT and ignore the fighting about how we can't afford to take care of our citizens. The "game " was set up by the wealthy so they would win.
Bob - What state do you live in? Having retired from an agency that administers Medicaid and other benefits, I know about eligibility nuances you might not be aware of. Here in Washington, there's one program that involves what's called an income "spend down" for people otherwise over the income limit. Simply put, if monthly income exceeds the limit by $100, the client must meet that amount in monthly medical expenses to qualify for Medicaid. Medicare premiums, well over $100 monthly at present, can easily meet the expense requirement. I'm pretty sure other states have this, too, but I'm not sure which ones.
I have a fairly decent SSI and with a small 401K in addition, I am able to survive. I did get approved for Med-i-Cal (CA version of Medicaid), but then was told that I had to spend above $2400/ mo. before I could qualify for benefits. That would be my monthly income, so how does that help? I didn't sign up.
You receive Social Security; either retirement, disability, and/or possibly a spousal benefit, but not SSI (Supplemental Security Income). SSI is for very low income people. Anyone with $2,400 monthly income (I know that's not much) and a 401K isn't eligible for SSI. Many people get the two programs confused, probably because they're both administered by the Social Security Administration (SSA). I'm not being snarky here, this is just FYI.
Pardon my old brain. Yes, regular Social Security, but I would have to spend the $2400 for at- home care, before the benefit would kick in. So how would I buy food or pay taxes or anything else?
Yes. I am single. There is ONE SS check in this "household" and it's been a two-income economy since the 70s.
The system is set up for married couples.
Woe to you if you don't stay married.
ah so you complain about the success of Bidenomics? Maybe don't vote for him next time! That should do it...
No, we’re complaining about how the Republicans fiddled with the formula for the COLA for Social Security. You need to get out more.
This has nothing to do with Biden! It’s about corporate greed and an equitable division of the enormous profits workers contribute to.
The only complaint I have is you.
You seem to be trolling.
Well said
J
Dude don’t attack everyone that doesn’t share your view of the world 🌎.
Don’t throw you energy away .
So who should you vote for some fascist?
Social Security was never meant to be a retirement program. It’s part of a three-legged stool, benefit donation, private savings and investments, and earnings or insurance plans. It was always meant to be a supplement to what we needed to accumulate over our working years.
You are absolutely right. It was meant to be a supplement to your own retirement dollars. It is pretty hard to make those dollars add up. The high earners and big corporations need to be paying their fair share!
Amen🤓
Too bad no one told us that. We never had any money to save or invest anyway. We were both elementary teachers and camp counselors for kids in the summers.
Sorry, Winni, no matter what we earned, we saved whatever change we could. We were depression babies (1934) and still did the best we could.
Most choices in life have consequences.
But if you do work at what is your passion and live a life commiserate to your income you shouldn’t end up struggling in retirement because you could not save any extra money - that is the point of our discussions about policy, taxes, and corporations to name a few.
If they are truly choices.
My grandmother existed on social security it was her retirement plan .
I might be wrong but SS was in its inception designed as a retirement plan to keep people from poverty.
No one teaches financial self defense in this society it has to be sought out and executed by each individual.
Financial survival is as important as being able to make fire 🔥, hunt for food , get shelter , make weapons and tools for cave people.
I googled Bob the rich janitor? Took me straight to Robert Read philanthropist.
I think he may have been married to Mrs Brady.I could never work out if I wanted to be married to Mrs Brady,Marsha, Jeannie the genie or catwomen
WOW. YES.Common sense.
Ida May Fuller.Google her.From my fading memory she paid $24 in social security taxes,lived to be 100 years old and collected $22K in pension payments.
The young pay for the old through the social security system
Bob the janitor .I forget his real name but Google should take you there.Bought clothes at second hand shops,everybody helped him out.When he died he left $10 million or so to his community.Most of his life he had tried to put a few $$ into buying shares in companies,and reinvesting the dividends.
Today is exactly the same.The young pay for the old through the S/S system.Instead of saving up if I think Musk is involved in battery technology and the cars are the testing ground for that future,then! Borrow whatever you are comfortable with ( say$5K) what you "save" spend it to pay off that loan.Musk may be your employee of the month every month.Who knows what the shares will be worth in 40 years shall we say.
3 pillars.Social security payment, 401K,and hopefully millions of $$$$$$ from employee of the month, Musk and Tesla..As a bonus a house powered by solar and battery technology.
We tax the billionaires appropriately for the opportunities our society and governance provides for them to not only be wealthy, but stay wealthy and become wealthier, still. That’s how we give social security a raise. Our economic system has been forty plus years in the making. I figure, we’d have the most prosperous retirees in the world if we went after the wealthiest people and their estates for back taxes they SHOULD have been paying all along. But you know, Reagan and Nixon saw to it that the rich pay far less than this so they become the morbidly rich and Republicans and corporatist Democrats like Manchin balk at every proposal to bring balance to our economy. Don’t blame the unions for asking for what they’re owed while the haves keep getting more and more.
Winni; Maybe if taxing Social Security was stopped for those receiving it, it would help.
That's true taxing social security is just a plain filthy piece of legislation. I have that situation and get irritated every single year.
I paid social security out of my paycheck. Now I'm collecting social security but I make too much money so therefore I have to pay social security and Medicare taxes on my social security income.
Who wrote this piece of social security legislation some sadist billionaire or was it one of tRump's accountants?
THANKS FOR LISTING THE FIVE REASONS. I HOPE THEY STRIKE!!!!
I hope they don’t need to strike, and will support them when they do. I can’t wish a strike on hard working employees, regardless of how necessary it is.
I hope they will strike if their demands are not granted. But even more, I hope the union can come together with management and agree to fair wages and benefits for all employees, without having to go on strike.
My brother lives in Michigan he hopes they do not strike...there will be a lot of collateral damage to folks who will have nothing to gain from it and will just be harmed...So yeah go cheer for a strike. Put your head ..... in the sand or somewhere else. And you people claim to be enlightened and in favor of the worker- so many people -WORKERS!!!- are going to be hurt by this... you think its a game. If he loses his job ( not in the auto sector) will the UAW compensate him for his loss?
Yes. That happens. But do you think it is fair for someone else to work for less so someone else’s job may not be threatened? Those people who your brother is earning his living off of, directly or indirectly? This is capitalism. Hopefully he will find a way to get by. Unfortunately none of us have any guaranteed income. I found that out big time three times. This is why we need programs to help people in these circumstances.
Universal Basic Income is needed. It would change everything. It is possible and we should demand it. It is time for civilization to take this leap forward. It's the next logical and necessary advancement.
If they DO NOT strike, NOTHING will change! Their bosses will continue to spit on them and laugh as they scramble for the few crumbs they DO throw.
Unlike the recent strikes last Thanksgiving, I honstly cannot see the harm for everyday Americans if autoworkers do indeed strike. Call me niave if you must.
Robert Brusca, if the Big 3 contract offers to their employees were fair, they would accept them. The UAW will strike against the unacceptable. Perhaps, your barometer of fairness is out of whack. Let's lay blame where it belongs. Solidarity with doing what is just, does sometimes require sacrifice, but the big picture is important. All workers, unionized or not, benefit from unions standing up to worker exploitation. It creates pressure as other workers think about their worth and ask for higher wages. And the union workers with the newly won higher wages have more dollars to spend to keep other workers employed.
You correctly state that the "big picture" is important. It is, but you might raise your eyes a bit higher and look at small business owners, shop keepers, yard workers, many doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, small restaurant owners, housekeepers, car wash owners, franchisees, etc. I could go on, but the point is that all of them are small business owners who may hire no people or just a small few. Those are all part of out capitalistic system, and each and every one of them is a WORKER as well as an employer. Not everyone works for a GM or APPLE.
Noel K McKeown, so won't small business owners benefit from people who have more money to spend?
That's the problem with the liars party formerly Republican Party - greed. It really does hurt everybody. Why should unions have to strike? Why should people have to demand at least decent pay? I think if we look at it we see where the problem lies is the - Liars Party and the very rich. They are the problem. They are the reason unions are going to strike or are striking. Blaming the unions for the collateral damage is exactly what the Liars party and the very rich want you to believe. Believe me when I tell you it's a lie.
Yes collateral damage does happen. I know that very well. But at least if you're going to blame anybody point your finger in the right direction.
you know nothing
Ford says UAW’s demand for a 4-day week is “unreasonable“?
I’ll bet that’s the same thing they said in the 1930s when the UAW brought us all the 5-day week.
Go UAW!
Yes. This crushing greed has to come to an end!
Hell yes, justified!!
I’m union through & through! So yes! Why aren’t the workers compensated as the CEO’s are?
I think we all know the answer to that question: corporate greed.
Executive pay is obscene
Totally justified!
Yes, because of all the reasons you have so clearly stated. It's time the American people were made aware of the blatant greed of corporate America. This should be a large part of the Democratic campaign, speaking to those whose wages don't equate with corporate profit, and that's most of us.
It’s Primetime for the Rich to start their sharing the wealth!
Yes indeed, they should strike!
What about the collateral damage to those not in the auto industry who would will see a downturn rip the Michigan economy and lose their jobs is that justified?
What about how the automakers have left Michigan high dry? You know, moving plants to states with substandard wages. Oh, and hollowing out Detroit because they could.
Labor, Union Labor, is a corner stone of a sound economy. Corporate greed only benefits the greedy.
It sounds like you're assuming the worst case scenario of a lengthy strike. That won't necessarily happen. Surely the local economy could withstand a short-term strike!
Robert Brusca, scare tactics of greedy monsters.
You're absolutely right there is going to be collateral damage. It sounds like the citizens of Michigan all need to get on their telephones and start contacting their Liars Party (formerly the Republican Party) representatives and tell them to push their rich black money donors into giving people decent wages instead of pocketing all the money for themselves.
The whole state of Michigan should go on strike in concert with the UAW.
I'm going to try this again. Collateral damage when unions strike does indeed happen. It happens because of corporate greed and the backing of the Liars party (formerly the Republican Party).
absolutely justified
What about the collateral damage to those not in the auto industry who would will see a downturn rip the Michigan economy and lose their jobs is that justified?
So you would do nothing? Just take it (a declining rate of pay) just so you could maybe stay afloat another couple years? That's pretty pathetic. You ever heard the saying "a rising tide floats all boats?"
Consider that awhile.
Maybe they need to join a union!
Robert Brusca, scare tactics.
Either that or Brusco meows pretty damn loud.
Oh yes. These companies are outrageous. Shameless.