Apr 6, 2023·edited Apr 6, 2023Liked by Robert Reich
This is not about Democrats, Republicans and Independents. The real issue here is insanity and fascism versus democracy. If there is ever a good time to be woke, this is it.
My family and I watched a YouTube video from Bryan Tyler Cohen's podcast tonight in which he interviews national treasure Jamie Raskin. At one point the word and concept "woke" was discussed and Congressman Raskin said he had explored the etymology of the word and found a meaning of "vigilant." He takes that meaning and I take that meaning because I think it is critical that we remain keenly vigilant and alert to what is being done, what the responses are, where resistance is, who is doing what, to whom, why.... the whole magilla!
Exactly. And, despite the rhetoric, when DeSantis's lawyers were asked to define it in court, they said "The belief that systemic injustice exists in America and needs to be addressed." That is what they are passing legislation to stop.
And to why Republicans are so vehemently against wokeness (= vigilance)? They want to hide their heads in the sand about economic, social, racial & environmental justice, fascism, attacks on democracy, climate chaos, mass extinction, etc.
More than that: they are TERRIFIED that their uneducated voters will FINALLY realize that they DESPISE them and WANT them dead! Some are waking up to that, but not nearly enough.
I have seen a darker origin of wok as being a Latin alphabet transliteration of "шок" in Russian Cyrillic characters. The translated meaning from Russian is "shock." Given how tightly the GOP is wedded to and supported by certain folks, the origin from Russian would not amaze me.
Awake and aware about everything going on including the general topic of injustice. Vigilant about what is brewing that will harm us. That is vague but danger comes in all forms.. we are driving on a road to a destined place- Social Harmony, call it- we need people who understand and agree to where we are headed; we need gas (or energy), a working vehicle, a decent road not a path that leads to a cliff and "potential death and destruction".
I'm not in disagreement with the jist of what you say. My concern is that in using the term 'woke' we should be careful about diluting its original meaning and intent. If we do then anyone can come along and prescribe their own meaning to the term and in doing so render it meaningless, at least for its original intent. Of course this is what happened with the whole 'defund the police' thing, which was never the intent but gave the right a great way to smear the left.
As I understand it, the black community originated the term and gave it meaning, And I personally bow to its originators intent and meaning.. People on the right are corrupting the meaning and intent to discredit the movement. We play into that by straying from the original meaning regardless of how right it feels.
For now, until someone is able to show me a better definition....historically accurate and all that......woke simply means awareness of and vigilance toward injustice in the black community.
Too narrow: Woke certainly includes, but goes beyond the Black community. Its meaning is found somewhere in the following definitions and understandings:
"Jesus was woke. Our Founding Fathers who penned the Bill of Rights were woke. The Preamble to the Constitution is woke."
"Wokeness is awareness of the injustice of the social system in which one lives: The phenomenon of being woke is a cultural push to challenge problematic norms, systemic injustices and the overall status quo through complete awareness"
"'wokeness: radical empathy."
~ Woke: being open to the fullness of truth about our shared past, present and future: the good, the bad, the ugly.
~ Wokeness: understanding that our pluralistic, complex democracy must be open to all of our voices, perspectives, stories, histories, and visions of the future, even and especially those of the most marginalized. In this way, wokeness is a commitment to truth and justice as the American way.
Our founding fathers were relatively "woke" in the White World of 18th Century Aristocracy, but were benighted in their inhumane acceptance of enslaving Black Africans.
How can you say that a definition is "too narrow" when it is the definition of the people who coined the expression in the first place? Why should white people - left or right - get to "correct" black people's definition of a black expression? Do you not see the irony of such a correction? If you want a word that means everything you want it to mean, why not repurpose one of your own? "Woke" either has an original meaning as a colloquial expression, or it means whatever people need it to mean right now to support their political views. If the latter, then you can't criticize Republicans for saying it means "performing gender reassignment on middle-schoolers".
And please don't take this to mean that I disagree with your principles. Everything you want "woke" to be, I dream of for society. But changing the original meaning of the word literally erases its black roots.
Thanks for all. My personal definition is narrow on purpose.....the fulcrum of change as the black community is the hardest hit. When we see improvement there, we'll see it pretty much everywhere.
Sorry to diagree, but our Founding Fathers were the opposite of woke. Their Bill of Rights was to protect white men. While writing it, they owned slaves, didn't let women paritcipate in the process, and were slaughtering Native Americans and Mexicans.
isn't that the normal way that Fox and other misinformation outlets as well as parties frame such issues by labeling. (i.e. "pro-life" and the mind goes to the opposite of "pro-death" and it is subtle. Pro-choice is open and extends rights. all is debatable) words and context are important. If people could see/hear it for what it is, which is not framed in debate, openness or reflective of a plan and ideal.
The meaning is not diluted by broadening it to include what it necessarily implies: wider societal issues that this narrower one presents, what needs to resolve. Otherwise the cry for "woke"-ness is static, goes nowhere- it's just a cry in the wilderness about just a particular problem ( i.e. police brutality). The black community is addressing the rest of us as to OUR continuing unresolved issues of racism and inequality and so, I think, itself is broadening the meaning of this word. We either look at broader society ( and ourselves) for answers and become more "woke" , embracing the term, OR not -- denigrate and deny and use it pejoratively as you point out. Today it's the battle with "white supremacy" ( I don't know if that is an historical term) and it's presentation our politics, government and public education in opposition to "wokeness". So using those terms, we have clarified or brought out into the open, those ongoing and historic problems to face.
As I said, my personal preference is to keep the definition of Woke narrow and focused lest it be distorted by well meaners outside the black community who don't necessarily understand its implication. Diluting societal energy is likely not that helpful in the long run. And of course by including all sorts of other things to be woke about gives opportunity for distortion and re-defining by those on the right. Maintaining a static but focused definition is not just cry in the wilderness unless it was undeserving to begin with. I don't think it is. So I'll stay with my initial response....."the fulcrum of change as the black community is the hardest hit. When we see improvement there, we'll see it pretty much everywhere."
btw, the concept of White Supremacy has been with us as long as we've been a country.
Among numerous good thinkers, Congressman Raskin, Timothy Snyder, et al identify the many indicators of fascism gaining strength in this country. I would like to say that is unimaginable, but it doesn't even take a very active imagination to see it, hear it, recognize it all around us in America, answering that old notion, "It can't happen here." It IS happening here.
So, your question is reasonable, but I hope my response is as well.
"Woke" is not a term I like much but I do agree with you. Being informed with our imperfect history, willing to listen to differing views, and seeing the constitution without its being abused with legislated "loopholes" is, to me expected. If woke is using history, maintaining reading, writing, arithmetic (throwback) education and "rights" for all, I am all in. I see myself by today's label-makers as a progressive democratic, which is fine with me. Yet I also see most with whom I can discuss issues with that there is also independent thinking and an ability to compromise to preserve our democracy. I agree with your statements.
Speaking of insanity, I just came across a piece about how Jim Jordan seems to be trying an "end around" on Bragg, even though it appears in the article, the guy being subpoenaed resigned because he 1) thought ol' Tweety guilty in the first place, and 2) thought Bragg wasn't moving fast enough:
- Jordan subpoenas former prosecutor in Trump hush money investigation:
I made a comment on insanity in yesterday's discussion having to do with li'l JJ's antics on the government weaponization committee!
Further, in another piece, it appears the court judges are getting as "programmed" as the "Trumpanzees" are, except that where the Trumpanzees accept as their god's own truth everything out of ol' Tweety's mouth, the judges are beginning to take every motion he makes as completely without evidence or merit:
- Former Reagan official has a harsh prediction about Trump’s legal fortunes:
The Atlantic’s Peter Wehner just last week in a scathing account of Donald Trump described the former president as a “mob boss.”
Wehner is now walking back that remark, but not for the reasons you might think.
“That comparison turns out to have been insulting to mob bosses everywhere,” the conservative columnist wrote in his most recent article that was published Wednesday.
AFTERTHOUGHT:
Insanity or prophecy? A bit of early Spielberg. Pay close attention about 30 minutes in, where it discusses the government structure and how it comes to pass. (Consider environmental catastrophe symbolic of any.): https://youtu.be/N6CM14xhS78 But don't stop there, and consider where we've been headed and trying to head off!
Remember: this is from the early '70s. (The geriatric rock band is a nice touch!)
Well-said Tom. That’s exactly it. It’s not about Dems vs GOP, it’s about democracy and fascism, about Democracy and tyranny. Trump is a cancer on our country.
Woke was around .....mostly in the black community.......way before 2019. 'chatGPT' is only as good as the data it takes in. GIGO (garbage in, garbage out)
Who programmed chat GTP to understand those marches as a riot? I won't touch chat GPT if I can avoid it. But I would dearly like to know what January 6th was programmed as.
But chatGPT is 90% weighted towards liberal woke ideology;
Why would you call it 'garbage'?? ( This is a liberal substack right?? )
Yes chatGPT makes that point that 'woke' came of black community, but dates is as of 2019, which I thought was odd;
Who was woke first the blacks who knew since Dred Scott SCOTUS decision 1862 that "Blacks were not human", or white liberals who just came to realize the injustice?
Or the blacks themselves who have seen the black family destroyed since LBJ; Prior to LBJ blacks had the lowest divorce rates in the USA;
recursion: 'Please go back and re-read what I wrote.'
[ U wrote a one liner from an iPhone, how about deeply explaining your reasoning's and identifying yourself as woke or non-woke, and telling us what 'woke' really means, if you claim to know the truth? ]
The problem with 'woke' is that its been co-opted by white-liberals as to mean "Those that seek a safe space".
I never see the term 'woke' ever used to mean "Those aware of black injustice"
What 2019 BLM riots? Please do explain what " riots" you are talking about. You also believe the January 6th was just a walk through the monuments and through Congress to say hi to everyone?
Oh for heavens sake. I read S howard as on-side and ironic (I mean, don’t get pissy), that BLM was, for most part peaceful, and that Capital riot was NOT tourists. No matter how I read S howard, I see big-sigh, sense of irony, about the characterizations--unaccounted for in trying to define woke, as any of: naive, holier-than-thou, or truly deeply seriously thoughtful. I mean. Read all with a shrug. Troll or Thinker, don’t give leverage to anything that gives you red eyes and an ulcer. You stand on firm foundation, don’t let “them” throw shade on what you read--seeing stuff that’s not there or bears no weight.
Except there is one party, specifically the Republicans marching towards fascism as if reading Umberto Eco's 14 Steps to Fascism as their go to playbook and party platform. It is about one of those parties in your paradigm here.
I am disturbed that independents would even consider DeSantis, whether or not Trump is out of jail and running for office. DeSantis is just as excited to install himself as the autocrat ruling our nation as Trump. DeSantis is a bit smarter, maybe, but at least as cruel, indifferent to people's suffering, and as racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, homo/transphobic and lacking in a moral compass as Trump or moreso. DeSantis is somewhat younger, usually talks in the non-accented Midwestern English so beloved by a lot of people. However, he is also a user just like his Trump mentor, and like the don, knows how to get people to act against their inclination and hurt people who don't deserve it. I am anxious to learn what it is that pulls independents toward DeSantis. Are they just telling themselves "well, at least it isn't Trump?" That does not bode well for our democracy because it means a whole chunk of those independents really want an autocrat, just the right autocrat. Clearly Biden has his problems, but he at least does seem to be working for the American people. He is, however, leaning a little too far right now, I guess trying to court the "independents." I want to tell him to just stop it. Democrats need someone who actually does care that kids are dying by guns, that our planet is suffering and must convert to renewable energy fast, and believes in the Constitution. Biden does stand for all of these. No one whom Republicans would nominate believes all three, if any of it, no matter what their mouth says.
I don't think Independents are being drawn to DeSantis anymore than they were to Trump. He's just as radical and insane. I'm an independent and I wouldn't vote for the little facist. Biden is still the preferred candidate of Independents if given a choice between him or Trump or DeSatan.
One size does not fit all. Here in Baghdad By the Sea independents broke for DeSantis and against "wokeness." All politics is local. Independents in Florida do not get a vote to decide who candidates will be in a general election.
Our problems are that Democrats in this state were disorganized, the DNC abandoned us, Blacks didn't vote, and that opposition to Fascism was sold to independents as pro communism.
Thank you for explaining more about the Willow project that I’d found for myself, Susan. There is a lot to be said for involving the people most directly affected in decisions that have significant effects and where there are competing interests. Murkowski, Peltola, and Native groups probably have shared goals and understand there are competing interests; compromises and a pace of change can maybe be set that people can digest and adjust to. I wonder what other industry they can turn to there for jobs.
Political action is often so reactionary; instead of agreeing on important goals and arguing about HOW to achieve them (e.g., regional jobs, stop global warming), we get parties in a tug-of-war, back-and-forth of blaming, lying about causes/options, and reversing each other’s actions.
Many voters aren’t aware of how extensive Pres.Biden’s commitment to mitigating climate change is, probably because it’s not covered by the media. The Inflation Reduction Act is the largest investment in countering climate change- I think-in the entire world. He’s been reviewing energy policies set by the Trump admin.in order to undo them-by executive order if possible. He rejoined the Paris Climate Agreement and hosted a virtual Climate Summit in 2021 with 40 world leaders.
The U.S. and China agreed on a framework to fight climate change by establishing environmental standards and policies for transition to renewable energy. China has agreed to adopt a national methane reduction plan as the U.S. already has.The Dept.of Energy has established a Clean Energy Corps to advance climate policies.
You may already know this—you can go to climateactiontracker.org to see more info. You can also go to: WH.org/climate to read more about his clean energy policies. He started a fund with other nations to help developing countries cope with drought & flooding and ordered the amount of of energy produced by offshore wind turbines to be doubled by 2030.
Unfortunate. Wokeness is merely being aware. Meaning one is educated about the issues facing society, a group of people a particular race or gender issue. Climate awareness etc. Gun control. Police brutality. To be aware is a good thing. Not communism. Communism is banning and burning books, singling out groups of people based on gender identity or race and trying to silence them. You know. The things the Republicans are doing.
While I agree with your definition of Woke, your definition of Communism is off base.....and to focus on it falls into the right wing trap of labeling Biden et al as such. What you describe instead is authoritarianism, totalitarianism, fascism.....etc. All of which are governing systems not economic systems, per se. e.g. Capitalism is an economic system, not a governing system. China is a Communist economy that uses Authoritarian principles to rule its people and command its economy. And yes, they ban books just like Florida.
IMO, if Trump is the nominee, Biden wins. If Trump is stopped, then Democrats need to find a new candidate.....one not so old. Time for Boomers to give way. The 2030's and beyond can't be all about them.
Biden has done a spectacular job being our US President. He accomplished so much during his first 2 years with a very slim majority. How he has handled NATO and Ukraine is another great accomplushment. I don't think Biden gets the credit he deserves. His age in my opinion is not a hindering factor. I look forward to voting for Biden for another term.
The political system in our country is composed of three totally different ideologies. We know the Republicans, the Democrats, and the independents are the three main groups that make up our voting community. As it stands, no one group can elect a candidate on its own. Donald Trump has at his disposal about 75% of the Republican voting block, perhaps even a little bit less. In order for him to win anything he will need to draw a reasonable percentage of the votes from the independent's camp. The independents are people who think before they cast their opinions in an election. After watching the fiasco orchestrated by Donald Trump over the past few weeks, many voters have been left with a bad taste in their mouths. The man seems a bit unhinged to many people who are on the fence with regards to how they will vote in the 2024 election. The mind set of the MAGA crowd is encrusted in the political mud that covers the shoes of Mr. Trump. They are a lost cause, at least for the moment. The prospective fight between Trump and DeSantis will result in the Republican party being fractured. The squabble over party control will open the door for a Democratic victory if things continue on their current path. The game of musical chairs the Republicans are playing will serve no positive end. If the Republicans are to hold on to what they already have Trump has to go. Its time to change the preverbal diaper, the one the Republican party is currently wearing is full of ---"_hit."
Donald, the problem with Republicans choosing someone other than Trump, they have no one who has the same level of popularity (cult leadership), it will either give us a president who actually cares about this nation (the Democrat) or any Republican who cares for money and power alone and who will do everything to stay in power despite our Constitution (even Nikki H.). It is hard to see who Democrats have that is acceptable to the breadth of the party. Biden has done a really good job so far, but is now drifting right (the Willow project and detaining families at the border and other border difficulties). For me, no Republican could possibly win my vote. I just hope Democrats have someone who has the experience to stand against the Republican crazies.
Ruth--It is really strange to me that neither party has a candidate that people who understand our political theater can rally behind. Sure there are the political hacks that always seem to hang around in an attempt to make a splash in an arena where they simple aren't qualified to be. But where are the true politicians who really care about the country and who could actually help everyone concerned? When I was younger it didn't matter which party really won because you understood the guy winning the election would carry the country in a positive manner. Not so today, as Trump has proven. Personally I would like to see Mr. Jefferies throw his hat in the ring. I feel the Democrats have a good man in his shoes.
I hate morons, who cannot put their cuck'd iPhone down and find a keyboard and say what they mean. You have this woke-cuck who calls herself 'terry' that refuses to open its heart to us, what can we say; Thumbs down bitch.
Absolutely agree about Biden leaning right lately. I see it most on environment and guns. Also, completely agree with your assessment of desantis. I always enjoy reading your comments here!
Melissa, Thank you. I really like reading and writing for this group of people on the thread. People here are so insightful and interesting, as well as willing to share resources and other information. It makes my day!
I do fear that OIL will still be our undoing -- Ask people in the Mid-West if they think dealing with climate change can be postponed a bit -- especially those people who survived a massive death-dealing tornado LAST week, only to see another one come through THIS week and kill some more.
We need someone who says he hold Biden’s values, and then sticks by them. It could even BE Biden, but he has to prove it.
Like so many would-be American despots, DeSantis is a product of what are considered some of America's top schools, Harvard and Yale.
Isn't it time these universities took a good look at what they are imparting to students?
Although in DeSantis' case, his ideas about race may have been solidified long before his arrival at these esteemed universities, as may be the case for pretty much everyone--
shouldn't schools take a look to see if there's something (more) they can do to impart social conscience iin their communities?
I’m going to take a wild guess--I have a feeling that if President Biden seems to be leaning a tad toward the right, it’s because he’s mindful that we’re just a few months away from when campaigning begins for the 2024 presidential election.
I agree with you on DeSantis Ruth. Plus, he seems to have a rather frantic energy more often than not. (Trump’s energy feels belligerent most of the time.)
Energy aside, as we get closer to the next election two of the main topics we’ll hear about from republicans are probably going to be our southern border and the economy. Re the border, republicans
have repeatedly voted against making more money available to secure the border, then complain that
President Biden is at fault for all of the border problems. If anyone wants to know more about the administration’s plans for the border they can go to
Although I see tweets all day, every day complaining about the dismal state of our economy, it’s actually doing quite well. Celia Rouse, Chair of the U.S. Council of Economic Advisors, says “U.S. inflation and jobs reports show the fastest recovery in 30 years under Biden. “These are extraordinary times for America's economy. Recent data suggest our labor market remains strong even as inflationary pressures are showing signs of easing.”
“Annual inflation back in June 2022 was 9.1%; last month, it had declined to 6.4 percent. In fact, annual inflation has declined seven months in a row. At the same time, we have experienced the fastest jobs recovery from a recession in the last three decades.“
Susan, you are on target related to the economy and the rest. I still can't understand why Republicans support their leaders' lying, even when it comes to issues that involve them, like the economy, which is clearly better than during the pandemic, even with inflation. Are those Republicans supporters so sure they are going to make it rich that unless they become rich, everyone else is to blame, and if that is the case, why don't they ever hold their leaders responsible since they are hording a lot of the funds that could benefit Republicans? I guess the lies of Fox et all are more powerful than what one is actually experiencing. I read somewhere that Republicans would prefer to suffer as long as they believe the people they despise (Black and Brown people) are suffering more. Maybe that is why they continue to support liars, cheaters, and those who do not respect our Constitution. They feel those guys will suffer more, so it's OK whatever they do. That really is sick, if true!
Trump represents getting sucked into the death spiral of democracy. But the #RepubloFascism he has started will outlast his presence on the political stage, unless we manage to do three things:
1- Establish that 70% of America is wise to his lies and that most folks know that manipulation was the goal all along.
2- Rally America around the notion of reaffirming a fair, transparent, and verifiable voting process that can be depended upon. This involves public, not private funding for all campaigns, ending all gerrymandering, and taking away each state’s ability to tilt the vote towards their state congressional bodies’ desires.
3- Make honor in politics the litmus test for everyone that takes a podium. Every example of hypocrisy should be worn like an anvil hanging from their necks. And everyone that has chosen personal gain over professional integrity should be voted out at the next opportunity.
This is how we have to imagine our nation going forward. If we fall short, we are giving into American entropy.
as dave said, it's about the media. We, all of us, have allowed our media landscape to go to hell over the last 30 years. Sick media, sick democracy. Sick economy, sick democfracy.
Bear this in mind, too: if a case challenging Wisconsin’s Gerrymandered legislative and Congressional districts is put before the state’s Supreme Court as newly constituted with Judge Janet Protasiewicz on the panel, and the new majority overturns the previous court’s upholding of that Gerrymander, the districts will be redrawn, most likely to ensure, as much as possible, that each will contain nearly equal numbers of registered Democrats and Republicans, leaving it up to the Independents to decide who will be elected to represent them — which is as it should be.
Elections actually decided by which candidates make the more convincing and truthful arguments — can Wisconsin stand such a radical prospect?
Republicans now have a super majority in Wisconsin's congress. They will impeach the new judge and any that they dont like. Even if that fails, who will redraw the districts?
Independents determine every election. Independents are mostly conservative voters that don't want to join the Repub Party for obvious reasons. They don't like the Democratic Party because they don't like the liberal leaning the party has on some issues. So, there they are, left without a group to align with. I've always felt it necessary to work within a group in order to affect change and get things done. I'm also a person who likes to be loyal to a group, and Democrats have generally suited me well. That doesn't mean I always have to vote straight party line although I always have. I can't see myself ever voting for a Repub.
It's far too early to tell what the political landscape will look like until we get closer to '24. From my contact with conservatives, it doesn't appear that they are losing their devotion to trump. They seem to be holding fast. As the other shoes begin to fall here in Georgia and at the federal level, we may see a crack develop in the trump loyal. My crystal ball is telling me very little. trump appears to be weakening. His energy level is at an all time low. DeSantis hasn't even announced yet. It looks like the time for him to announce is close at hand if he plans on running. I don't see how trump can run a successful campaign against both Biden and DeSantis. He has plenty of money, but can he muster the energy necessary to win two campaigns? He's not a young man. On the other hand, if DeSantis runs, he will turn off many Repubs in the fight just like how Sanders' supporters refused to vote for Hillary. This could turn into an election of the weakest candidates this country has seen in a long time. It's just too early to tell.
Charlie, I, like you like being part of a group that works for something positive, and Democrats do that for me too. I have in the past voted for a few Republicans, but that was before the insanity of ultra-conservativism that does nothing for anyone but the ultras themselves. Those folks care for nothing but their own power and the money that will get it for them, a serious addiction to only that. Independents can sit back until the last minute and jump in to conservatize any election, and for what! I don't understand. Is it they don't want to have to support anyone or to show they are above the fray as it were? What startled me more than Sanders supporters not voting for Hillary Clinton was the many who jumped on the Trump wagon in 2016. How is that possible? Did they really believe Trump would serve our nation better than Hillary or was it just for spite because she won the nomination? In any case, it was good only for the Liar in chief, not for our nation. Thank goodness there were only a few of them that I have heard about.
Please stop saying Sanders supporters didn’t vote for HRC unless you can prove it. Most of us held our noses and did vote for her. And very few flipped to the orange clown. Simply repeating this false narrative doesn’t make it true.
Having worked the primary election for Sanders (and supported the Democratic nominee in the General Election) I would say that more Bernie supporters moved to Tulsi Gabbard than to DJT. But a lot of them did not support Clinton, and it made a difference. Sometimes, the left is as clueless as the right.
I’m not surprised some jumped to Tulsi; surely there are regrets there, as she has evolved her rhetoric.
There seems to be an assumption here that Independents “wait, then jump” and that they 1) jump to whoever is more conservative, or 2) deliver a spoiler vote when they’re ticked off.
I am a lifelong Independent. I have never voted for a candidate that I did not think could win; that is throwing away your vote in a duopoly, such as we have. I want to bust up the duopoly. That’s one reason I support ranked choice, STAR, and proportional voting. I want to see what voters really want, as evidenced by their actual VOTE, not by what pundits and pollsters say. I am not, and have never been, a single issue voter. I think that’s ridiculous; federal governments need to capably manage an array of complex issues.
Although, now that authoritarian rule is on the ballot, I’ll vote Democrat every time until I see sustained behavioral change. I voted for Larry Hogan when I lived in MD and it annoyed me when Dems sent postcards trying to convince me to vote Dem up and down the ticket. Hogan is a good Governor, as far as I know. I don’t want to live in a cultic group; been there, done that. Now, however, with the way the GOP is behaving, I would not vote for a Republican for any reason in any election.
We have Greens, Libertarians, Republicans, Democrats, Forward Party and Independents working together to bring RCV to North Carolina. I want pro-democracy reforms that are consistent with majoritarian rule / minority interest protections. With the aim to co-create a more humane, just, and equitable society of people who experience wellbeing, trending higher on all measures. That means progressive economic policy. That’s why I read Mr. Reich; I’m a social scientist, not an economist, so I need to understand more about economics (and foreign policy as well).
The problem with all that is that the American voting public is way to dumb and uneducated to deal with a system like that. They can barely vote now. In fact 45% don't bother voting at all.
I have always been an Independent and, since your description is inaccurate as pertains to me, I wonder how you came to the conclusion that “Independents are mostly conservative voters that don’t want to join the Republican Party for obvious reasons.” What are the obvious reasons? Trump? Culture Wars? Views on how the economy works? What are the “liberal leaning” issues the Dems have endorsed that you have concluded Independents don’t like? On what basis have you reached that conclusion?
I wonder if we simply don’t know much about who Independents are and the policies they prefer. I have mostly felt alone as an Independent; just as I did being the sole atheist that I knew, for sure, for decades.
The claims that Mr. Reich made about Independents made sense to me: detest political polarization/paralysis and detest the violence, chaos, and authoritarianism of Trump and his ilk, including DeSantis.
Being disinclined to “be loyal to a group,” loyalty demands do not sit well with me, from either party. I want to see ranked choice voting, independent election commissions, and most especially to end the influence of dark money in politics. I want WYSIWYG: politicians who say what they mean and do what they say.
docpatti, everyone is so testy today! Arguing over what woke means? I agree with what you wrote and as I switch my voter affiliation back and forth here in PA since we don’t have open primaries, (Republican for primary and Democrat for general), your description is how I believe most Independents feel about politics. It’s not a sporting event. No one likes a liar, hypocrite, a cheat. I’m really angry at liars today. You know, the seat stealing NC Rep Tricia Cotham ran as a Democrat supporting reproductive rights, anti-gun legislation. Got elected on those issues then screwed NC voters by switching to Republican giving the House a veto-proof supermajority to Republicans with no provision for a recall. What a lying, corrupt individual. She’s a fraud and voters in NC would be wise to vote her out in 2014.
I’m really mad about liars, too! And the Cotham situation here in NC is a big problem. I hope it will activate people and help to get out the vote. We didn’t have great turnout from urban or youth voters last time.
It’s reassuring to me that another voter sees Independents in the way that I see myself. Honestly, I have no idea. Maybe unaffiliated voters mostly are RINOs, as some suggest. I hope not (and I don’t think so. Lots of young people choose unaffiliated). I hope most of us are as you and I seem to believe: it’s not a sporting event. It is serious, and complex; it requires skills; it would be “ideal” if we elected people who were capable.
There is an interesting question for me about the House, and having MTG, Boebert, and other anti-intellectuals elected to serve. Based on the principle of government for the people, by the people, those elected who come in without elite status claims (and associated experiences, knowledge, etc.) of a Yale education, high-ranking corporate job, coming up in a “political family” and whatever else qualifies ... well, it makes sense. To me, just thinking out loud, it seems that if people get elected on passion and then learn a lot about how government works on the job, that might be OK, as an equalizer and a way to incorporate the diverse views and experiences of the American populace.
When highly educated progressives present as know-it-alls, that is a problem. I remember reading Aristide’s book on a plane once, about how progressives who wanted to help Haiti introduced pigs incapable of living off the land, as the smaller native pigs did. A lot of pigs died and a lot of Haitians starved.
Hi, Karen. Thank you and please call me Patti. I registered Democrat when I moved to NC, not realizing that I could vote in primaries as unaffiliated. I believe the data that Reich shared (I admit, with all the Substacks that I read, I may forget content of OP when commenting as time goes on. Bad, but true.)
Have you ever heard of the SCARF model? Status, Certainty, Autonomy, Relatedness, Fairness. It’s a neuroscience view of what humans perceive as a threat.
To me, dude who said I wanted an ideal world that is impossible to achieve does not understand me. He would score higher on the need for Certainty than I do. I distribute what triggers me, mostly threats to autonomy, relatedness, and fairness.
I’m comfortable with uncertainty and believe humans are evolving. Not fast enough, but capable of doing so. Hoping Putin or Trump dies in not a timely or realistic response to their anti-social behavior (aka depravity). I embraced that thinking when I lived in a cult, the Lafayette Morehouse, in the 70s and 80s. It’s not a viable solution or approach to productive change efforts.
ranked choice voting is not that complicated. Approval voting, striving for the same objectives as RCV, is even simpler and may be on our MO ballot in the fall.
Sounds like you want a utopian world. Well, I do too, but it ain't going to happen. Ranked voting is far too complicated for the American voter and the American politician. What we need are better politicians who care for the people of this country, and until that happens, no change in the way we vote will help. It seems as though we have been going down hill as far as better politicians are concerned. That's not to say there aren't some good Democrats. There aren't enough, and there are no good Repubs.
I’m like Jill Biden. Lots of people, including the APA, somehow believe that our advanced degrees do not qualify us to use the prefix Dr. Only medical doctors. What ev.
That’s kind of you to say, Charlie, and I appreciate it b/c it was a lot of work and it’s not meaningless to me. And, no, the credential for me is not really about having right answers; it was about how to ask questions, gather evidence, analyze data, and draw well-reasoned conclusions. For the research project, I interviewed 22 people who grew up in cultic groups and decided to leave. It was exploratory and inconclusive. The findings pertain to adults leaving gangs, prison, abusive relationships, coming out of the closet. The international cultic studies association folks weren’t particularly interested in those cross-disciplinary applications; they are (were?) more focused on harm, e.g., the group psychological abuse scale. I was focused on positive adult development: identity distress and post-traumatic growth. This info may give you more context regarding the part of the content in your OP that I reacted to and why. Again, thx for the conversation. 🙂
And please, call me Patti. As a social scientist who got her degree while in her 50s in a society where earning a doctorate doesn’t seem to mean much ... well, I put doc in my handle. but it is essentially meaningless. We’re all just people. With lots of lived experience, and ways of knowing what we know.
I think a doctorate indicates a lot of formal study and I don't think that is meaningless. It is an impressive amount of work and knowledge. Of course, it doesn't necessarily make a person right about things even in their field of study, but it should help lead them to the right answers.
I'll be glad to answer any question if you will ask me the question. I'm not going to go through your responses and did out the questions.
Here is one question answered as to the breakdown of independents according to Gallop in 2021. In my view a moderate tends to be more conservative than liberal.
Gallop says:
Independents' views were unchanged in 2021, with close to half (48%) identifying as moderate, 30% as conservative and 20% as liberal. That's why I say independents are more conservative. The country itself is still slightly more conservative than liberal according to Gallop and other polls.
I tend to agree, but they are the best info that we have. I judge everything based on my knowledge, experiences and my research, but it doesn't make for good evidence for someone else. You may have a different experience, and there's nothing I can do to change your mind.
or GOP might turn to another candidate not so crazy. Trump is in trouble. Desantis will not have wide appeal and keeps making mistakes. A younger GOP candidate who presents as moderate will beat an old Biden with Kamala. A wise Biden has decided not to run. (Hah).
I don't see a younger Repub who could possibly develop any sort of following in time to be a plausible candidate. Biden is sure to run as long as his health holds up, and probably has the best chance of winning the presidency, even though he may not be the favorite prospect for the presidency. He wasn't the favorite in 2020 either, yet here he is, the president. I will support him regardless.
It wouldn't be the first time an "unknown" quickly rose to prominence during a Presidential campaign. Not saying it will happen in 2024. But a Youngkin for example could be a household name overnight in our media environment. Hoping the R dysfunction continues.
Stranger things have happened. Maybe they haven't, but anything is possible. Well, maybe it isn't, but it's true that some moderate right winger could come out of the woodwork, but I just don't see it happening. I think trump is still too strong to allow that to happen even though he is damaged. The extinct is still unknown as of yet. The world of politics has been very strange since trump came down the escalator and it continues. We need to do away with him once and for all. That I'm sure of!
Musk says that Trump is running for only one reason, to get a pardon for him & family.
If Trump can make a deal with deSantis to dropout and deSantis promises a pardon, then Trump doesn't need to fight it out Trump-2024;
The reason that Trump wants a full family pardon, for everyone including kids and Kushners is wide, but most of it is so the $12 Trillion USD "War on Covid" funds don't get clawed back that all got funneled into big-pharma and billions flowed into to Baron-Foundation, Ivanka-Foundation, Kushner-Foundation.
This is not a RINO problem, HRC has $20 Billion USD in her Clinton-Foundation held in Dubai-Qatar;
I became unaffiliated many years ago. I personally think all Americans should register as Independent and then vote with your best judgment for the person who you believe will have the best intentions for the Country and the people.
I have to be registered as a dem or repub to vote in that party’s primary. If Biden runs unopposed I might switch to independent. However, that would mean that I would get cold calls and a bundle of unwanted mail from both parties. And there is no way on this earth that I am ever going to vote for a republican. Never never never. Since Reagan bungled the HIV epidemic (causing great pain and suffering and death) and cut taxes on the wealthy and spent at least his last 2 years with moderate dementia to Bush W getting us into long lasting Vietnam style wars under false pretenses to tcd (the criminal defendant) bungling covid epidemic (causing great pain and suffering and death) and cutting taxes on the wealthy some more and spending all four years in a state of mental illness and then inviting and promoting a coup attempt that almost succeeded, not to mention the constant threat to the rights and bodily autonomy of women and LGBTQ.......So no not ever voting for anyone with an R next to their name.
I’m pretty much with you, Sky 777. I’m voting Dem. My concern is that one party rule poses significant, very serious problems. Ideally, I’d like to see diverse views represented ... along with an increased ability (and motivation, hence incentives) to work it out.
I agree with you docpatti about one party rule and need for action and compromise and integrity. What I am not seeing is is any of those things from Republicans. The gerrymandering and the Supreme Court debacle and the really stupid and dangerous fight over the debt ceiling and all the lies told over and over leave me with NO respect for the Republican party in its current form. It seems they do not care about citizens, only donors and they are disingenuous and outright liars. I do not agree with Liz Cheny's views on most things. However, because of the way she comported herself post 1/6/21, she has my respect. People like her who identify as republican are becoming as rare as hen's teeth.
I completely agree with everything you’ve said, Sky. When I voted for Republicans in the past, it was as a relatively uninformed, relatively disengaged voter.
I didn’t pay much attention to politics until 2016 and what I’ve learned since then gives me hives. I’m very grateful to Substack authors, and commentators, for the education that I’m finally getting on how all of this works, and what people and parties have done over time.
I also live in a state where I don’t have to declare my party. For the primary, I walk in, say if I want the Rep or Dem ballot. After I’ve voted, I go to another table, and “unregister”. I’m also a fan of ranked choice voting, at least for some elections.
In Alabama you register to vote but there is no party registration. When Primary day comes around, you go to your polling location and ask for one of the following ballots: Republican, Democrat or Constitutional Amendments Only.
Thank you for the information. I am surprised at the number of unaffiliated voters and shocked at the amount of money spent on elections. The Wisconsin Supreme Court election just used up 68 million dollars. Do that many people still watch TV commercials? We fast forward through them. When my hand isn't fast enough on the remote trigger, I notice MSNBC's commercials are targeted toward drug sales to hypochondriacs or car commercials (who can afford a new car)? What a waste of money. Why can't we have publicly funded elections like some other countries do? Looking forward to your class tomorrow morning.
Check out the %'s! 40% are independent, the two parties are 30% each! Except in Congress, which continues to MIS-represent the electorate. Something's amiss in our 'party' system, which looks more and more like fraternities at a rich kids' school, looking inward rather than dealing with the issues of the public at large.
DeSantis less loathsome than tRump ?Hardly. Both are truly disgusting to this independent, but very liberal, voter. Even though it indicates there is only one political party in the country, and the other is nothing but a cult, let them run tRump again. He will lose resoundingly. DeSantis is a dangerous fascist too, and supposedly smarter than tRump (not like that takes much). A DeSantis presidency would also be disastrous for the country and continue the policies of rolling back long established social rights and failure to address actual important issues like healthcare and maintenance of existing infrastructure, never mind initiatives for new infrastructure which has been neglected under both parties leadership. We need a government concerned with the people’s business, the people’s welfare. Not one that spends their time infighting and policing themselves with gotcha stunts.
While we focus on national politics, GOP legislatures in states like Texas, Tennessee and Idaho are trying to ban an American citizens right to cross state lines among other things. Trump is not our biggest problem!!
I was not excited about Biden. Basically I voted against the despicable Trump. However, Biden has brought sanity and stability to governance for which his administration has been little press coverage. The legislation has been moderate but significant. The Fed rather than Biden is to blame for bank failure. At almost 91, I could predict that raising interest rates was a terrible idea. I hope sanity prevails!
Deborah, I would like to see in all states, a way that independent voters can vote in any primary, choosing which party's election they will participate in just before they vote. We in PA don't allow that, but we should. I get it that some states claim to worry that independents would vote to screw up one or other of the partys' choice, but I suspect over time, that would dry up and independents would vote for a candidate they actually like.
Well, finally, Rump is shooting himself in the foot, as are all the rest of the Trump GOPers. The group outside of Mar-a-Lago was slim. Trump found himself in hostile territory in New York. The jerk that got beat in Wisconsin was a good example. He had to drench himself in false righteousness. I'm glad the younger set is largely not falling for this. The GOP is sounding very much like the Southern Democrats who supported slavery. They couldn't imagine a different world and were sure they were right. Change is a-comin', folks. And none too soon.
Excellent analysis of the shifting demographics of America's voters. Indeed we do need a 3rd party eventually to replace the corrupt and seditious activities of today's GOP insurrectionists. We can just call it the American party, with no platforms except to follow the fairly elected mandates of the American people and to outlaw gerrymandering and judicial court stacking, especially SCOTUS which needs expanded to 13 justices to accurately represent the 13 federal appellate districts.
Until then vote 🗳 blue 🗳 💙 Until the GOP is a distant bad memory. Even ol Abe Lincoln would agree 👍
I’m careful about so-called “third” parties. Why three? What effect do/could the Greens, Libertarians, Forward Party, No Labels, and so on have on the process? Recent coverage of the $$ behind No Labels throws shade on the idea that we trust an “American party, with no platform except to follow the fairly elected mandates of the people.”
If the Republican choice turned out to be Trump or DeSantis, that would hardly be a choice since both of them are despicable individuals and politicians. Both are cruel, amoral despots, temperamentally and strategically. I have no particular fondness for Joe Biden, especially since he has approved destruction of a part of the Alaskan wilderness to please the fossil fuel industry and accommodate insatiable consumer wants over precious and dwindling places of the Earth and the creatures who are being decimated and abused every which way by our selfish, careless species. If we continue down this path there will soon be nothing but condominiums, golf courses, shopping malls, poisons and garbage on land, in the oceans, rivers, streams - every once lovely, clean place now bleak, depleted, miserable: the human contribution to planetary existence.
And let us not forget the countless billions of birds, fishes, mammals and insects condemned to incarcerated Hell merely to satisfy our grotesque appetite for the taste of animal pain and body parts. From the standpoint of this planet, our entire species is "Trump." He is a symptom and an exemplar of ourselves and the multiple diseases, moral, mental, and physical, that we are spreading everywhere with no end in sight. - Karen Davis, PhD, President, United Poultry Concerns
Karen, don’t despair, Homo Sapiens used to eat each other. From a once endangered species, we have overpopulated this planet and caused significant damage to all other species. However the Earth will recover after we are gone. At almost 91,I have to endure the smell of broccoli from the kitchen. Carol ,only MA
Carol, I often comfort myself with knowing how resilient this glorious, amazing planet really is. Ecosystems are extraordinarily adaptive. People are, too, it’s just that when we’re insulated from consequences, we don’t think we have to. Being lazy, we don’t.
It was always necessary to woo the independents, now even more so. I was more concerned about Desantis being the Republican nominee than I was about Trump, whose resurrection is a green light to a liberal agenda by the DNC. Let's see if HRC, Axelrod, Brazil, and Clyburn blow it again.
Personally, I think Democrats ought to look more closely at registered Black voters who don't exercise their rights and young people, who tend to be more open-minded that to put all the effort into Independents, who are, demonstratively, a mixed bag. People are already complaining in Wisconsin about the student vote, which had a big effect on Tuesday's outcome.
I agree. My comment was not about independents per se, but about the fact that the DNC needs to be - and I almost hate to say this - poll driven. For example, if the DNC had paid attention to the numbers in 2016, they would never have sandbagged Sanders. It's a scientific approach to giving people an agenda that they want - you could call it modern democracy, made possible in this digital age.
While is true that there are quite a few independents who are holding their noses while voting for Trump, in the (incorrect) belief that he will help their 401Ks, nevertheless I believe polls will show that they are greatly outnumbered by people who would vote for 1) abortion rights, 2) gun control, 3) universal healthcare, 4) forgiveness of student loans, 5) progressive taxation. THESE are the issues the DNC should campaign on.
There is a precedent. In 1945, after WWII, there was an election in the UK. Understandably, it was widely assumed that Winston Churchill would be re-elected. This assumption was also held by the Labour Party, which had to come up with a manifesto. Some bright spark said that, since we're going to lose anyway, instead of hedging to the right as we always do, why not tell voters what we really think? And so the manifesto included universal healthcare, higher education for all, and taxing the wealthy to pay for it (they didn't have to worry about gun control, at least not then).
This is not about Democrats, Republicans and Independents. The real issue here is insanity and fascism versus democracy. If there is ever a good time to be woke, this is it.
My family and I watched a YouTube video from Bryan Tyler Cohen's podcast tonight in which he interviews national treasure Jamie Raskin. At one point the word and concept "woke" was discussed and Congressman Raskin said he had explored the etymology of the word and found a meaning of "vigilant." He takes that meaning and I take that meaning because I think it is critical that we remain keenly vigilant and alert to what is being done, what the responses are, where resistance is, who is doing what, to whom, why.... the whole magilla!
The idea of "woke" originated in African American communities to mean recognition of injustice.
Exactly. And, despite the rhetoric, when DeSantis's lawyers were asked to define it in court, they said "The belief that systemic injustice exists in America and needs to be addressed." That is what they are passing legislation to stop.
J. Nol, Thanks for letting us know…love it
See Eryka Badu
Agree. Ms. Badu defined woke beautifully and the link is copied here for anyone who would like to see it. https://youtu.be/0YDKqKfXLxg
Yes it did.
And to why Republicans are so vehemently against wokeness (= vigilance)? They want to hide their heads in the sand about economic, social, racial & environmental justice, fascism, attacks on democracy, climate chaos, mass extinction, etc.
More than that: they are TERRIFIED that their uneducated voters will FINALLY realize that they DESPISE them and WANT them dead! Some are waking up to that, but not nearly enough.
And that “TERRIFIED” is exactly what we were witness to today in the TN state legislators.
You've nailed it, Daniel!
Hit the nail on the head!
Indeed!
Raskin's etymology may be too noble.
I have seen a darker origin of wok as being a Latin alphabet transliteration of "шок" in Russian Cyrillic characters. The translated meaning from Russian is "shock." Given how tightly the GOP is wedded to and supported by certain folks, the origin from Russian would not amaze me.
See Erykah Badu
Vigilant to what? ..... injustice ?
Awake and aware about everything going on including the general topic of injustice. Vigilant about what is brewing that will harm us. That is vague but danger comes in all forms.. we are driving on a road to a destined place- Social Harmony, call it- we need people who understand and agree to where we are headed; we need gas (or energy), a working vehicle, a decent road not a path that leads to a cliff and "potential death and destruction".
I'm not in disagreement with the jist of what you say. My concern is that in using the term 'woke' we should be careful about diluting its original meaning and intent. If we do then anyone can come along and prescribe their own meaning to the term and in doing so render it meaningless, at least for its original intent. Of course this is what happened with the whole 'defund the police' thing, which was never the intent but gave the right a great way to smear the left.
As I understand it, the black community originated the term and gave it meaning, And I personally bow to its originators intent and meaning.. People on the right are corrupting the meaning and intent to discredit the movement. We play into that by straying from the original meaning regardless of how right it feels.
For now, until someone is able to show me a better definition....historically accurate and all that......woke simply means awareness of and vigilance toward injustice in the black community.
Too narrow: Woke certainly includes, but goes beyond the Black community. Its meaning is found somewhere in the following definitions and understandings:
"Jesus was woke. Our Founding Fathers who penned the Bill of Rights were woke. The Preamble to the Constitution is woke."
"Wokeness is awareness of the injustice of the social system in which one lives: The phenomenon of being woke is a cultural push to challenge problematic norms, systemic injustices and the overall status quo through complete awareness"
"'wokeness: radical empathy."
~ Woke: being open to the fullness of truth about our shared past, present and future: the good, the bad, the ugly.
~ Wokeness: understanding that our pluralistic, complex democracy must be open to all of our voices, perspectives, stories, histories, and visions of the future, even and especially those of the most marginalized. In this way, wokeness is a commitment to truth and justice as the American way.
You're either woke or you're asleep.
Our founding fathers were relatively "woke" in the White World of 18th Century Aristocracy, but were benighted in their inhumane acceptance of enslaving Black Africans.
How can you say that a definition is "too narrow" when it is the definition of the people who coined the expression in the first place? Why should white people - left or right - get to "correct" black people's definition of a black expression? Do you not see the irony of such a correction? If you want a word that means everything you want it to mean, why not repurpose one of your own? "Woke" either has an original meaning as a colloquial expression, or it means whatever people need it to mean right now to support their political views. If the latter, then you can't criticize Republicans for saying it means "performing gender reassignment on middle-schoolers".
And please don't take this to mean that I disagree with your principles. Everything you want "woke" to be, I dream of for society. But changing the original meaning of the word literally erases its black roots.
Thanks for all. My personal definition is narrow on purpose.....the fulcrum of change as the black community is the hardest hit. When we see improvement there, we'll see it pretty much everywhere.
Sorry to diagree, but our Founding Fathers were the opposite of woke. Their Bill of Rights was to protect white men. While writing it, they owned slaves, didn't let women paritcipate in the process, and were slaughtering Native Americans and Mexicans.
isn't that the normal way that Fox and other misinformation outlets as well as parties frame such issues by labeling. (i.e. "pro-life" and the mind goes to the opposite of "pro-death" and it is subtle. Pro-choice is open and extends rights. all is debatable) words and context are important. If people could see/hear it for what it is, which is not framed in debate, openness or reflective of a plan and ideal.
The meaning is not diluted by broadening it to include what it necessarily implies: wider societal issues that this narrower one presents, what needs to resolve. Otherwise the cry for "woke"-ness is static, goes nowhere- it's just a cry in the wilderness about just a particular problem ( i.e. police brutality). The black community is addressing the rest of us as to OUR continuing unresolved issues of racism and inequality and so, I think, itself is broadening the meaning of this word. We either look at broader society ( and ourselves) for answers and become more "woke" , embracing the term, OR not -- denigrate and deny and use it pejoratively as you point out. Today it's the battle with "white supremacy" ( I don't know if that is an historical term) and it's presentation our politics, government and public education in opposition to "wokeness". So using those terms, we have clarified or brought out into the open, those ongoing and historic problems to face.
As I said, my personal preference is to keep the definition of Woke narrow and focused lest it be distorted by well meaners outside the black community who don't necessarily understand its implication. Diluting societal energy is likely not that helpful in the long run. And of course by including all sorts of other things to be woke about gives opportunity for distortion and re-defining by those on the right. Maintaining a static but focused definition is not just cry in the wilderness unless it was undeserving to begin with. I don't think it is. So I'll stay with my initial response....."the fulcrum of change as the black community is the hardest hit. When we see improvement there, we'll see it pretty much everywhere."
btw, the concept of White Supremacy has been with us as long as we've been a country.
Among numerous good thinkers, Congressman Raskin, Timothy Snyder, et al identify the many indicators of fascism gaining strength in this country. I would like to say that is unimaginable, but it doesn't even take a very active imagination to see it, hear it, recognize it all around us in America, answering that old notion, "It can't happen here." It IS happening here.
So, your question is reasonable, but I hope my response is as well.
"Woke" is not a term I like much but I do agree with you. Being informed with our imperfect history, willing to listen to differing views, and seeing the constitution without its being abused with legislated "loopholes" is, to me expected. If woke is using history, maintaining reading, writing, arithmetic (throwback) education and "rights" for all, I am all in. I see myself by today's label-makers as a progressive democratic, which is fine with me. Yet I also see most with whom I can discuss issues with that there is also independent thinking and an ability to compromise to preserve our democracy. I agree with your statements.
Speaking of insanity, I just came across a piece about how Jim Jordan seems to be trying an "end around" on Bragg, even though it appears in the article, the guy being subpoenaed resigned because he 1) thought ol' Tweety guilty in the first place, and 2) thought Bragg wasn't moving fast enough:
- Jordan subpoenas former prosecutor in Trump hush money investigation:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jordan-subpoenas-former-prosecutor-in-trump-hush-money-investigation/ar-AA19yiZx
I made a comment on insanity in yesterday's discussion having to do with li'l JJ's antics on the government weaponization committee!
Further, in another piece, it appears the court judges are getting as "programmed" as the "Trumpanzees" are, except that where the Trumpanzees accept as their god's own truth everything out of ol' Tweety's mouth, the judges are beginning to take every motion he makes as completely without evidence or merit:
- Former Reagan official has a harsh prediction about Trump’s legal fortunes:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/former-reagan-official-has-a-harsh-prediction-about-trump-s-legal-fortunes/ar-AA19wBYU
From RAW STORY:
The Atlantic’s Peter Wehner just last week in a scathing account of Donald Trump described the former president as a “mob boss.”
Wehner is now walking back that remark, but not for the reasons you might think.
“That comparison turns out to have been insulting to mob bosses everywhere,” the conservative columnist wrote in his most recent article that was published Wednesday.
AFTERTHOUGHT:
Insanity or prophecy? A bit of early Spielberg. Pay close attention about 30 minutes in, where it discusses the government structure and how it comes to pass. (Consider environmental catastrophe symbolic of any.): https://youtu.be/N6CM14xhS78 But don't stop there, and consider where we've been headed and trying to head off!
Remember: this is from the early '70s. (The geriatric rock band is a nice touch!)
"Woke is beautiful, live with it." Us old farts need to do all we can to encourage young voters. My grandkids need us to help them save the world.
Spot on Tom! 100% agree with you! See my comments.
Well-said Tom. That’s exactly it. It’s not about Dems vs GOP, it’s about democracy and fascism, about Democracy and tyranny. Trump is a cancer on our country.
Yes! When you put it in context and take party out of the picture, then at least the fascism and tyranny part become clearer.
chatGPT says that woke came out of 2019 BLM riots;
Why would chatGPT lie?
Who sponsored anti-fa & blm? Follow the money follow wokism to its source;
Woke was around .....mostly in the black community.......way before 2019. 'chatGPT' is only as good as the data it takes in. GIGO (garbage in, garbage out)
www.messagemagazine.com/articles/the-danger-with-getting-caught-in-cultural-woke-wars/
Too bad chatGPT wasn't correctly programmed to include information like this. I'm sure there's much more but this is good for starters.
Who programmed chat GTP to understand those marches as a riot? I won't touch chat GPT if I can avoid it. But I would dearly like to know what January 6th was programmed as.
See Erykah Badu
Who?
Research helps
Erykah Badu is an incredibly talented artist and performer. The definition Ms. Badu gave that LVD refers to is here: https://youtu.be/0YDKqKfXLxg
Thanks so much. I didn't know anything about her before. Very eye-opening.....explains a lot.
But chatGPT is 90% weighted towards liberal woke ideology;
Why would you call it 'garbage'?? ( This is a liberal substack right?? )
Yes chatGPT makes that point that 'woke' came of black community, but dates is as of 2019, which I thought was odd;
Who was woke first the blacks who knew since Dred Scott SCOTUS decision 1862 that "Blacks were not human", or white liberals who just came to realize the injustice?
Or the blacks themselves who have seen the black family destroyed since LBJ; Prior to LBJ blacks had the lowest divorce rates in the USA;
Please go back and re-read what I wrote.
recursion: 'Please go back and re-read what I wrote.'
[ U wrote a one liner from an iPhone, how about deeply explaining your reasoning's and identifying yourself as woke or non-woke, and telling us what 'woke' really means, if you claim to know the truth? ]
The problem with 'woke' is that its been co-opted by white-liberals as to mean "Those that seek a safe space".
I never see the term 'woke' ever used to mean "Those aware of black injustice"
I just don't think you're looking hard enough....or in the right places. History ain't that hard. www.messagemagazine.com/articles/the-danger-with-getting-caught-in-cultural-woke-wars/
I didn't think this site allowed Russian trolls. Maybe you can go play in a mine field??
What 2019 BLM riots? Please do explain what " riots" you are talking about. You also believe the January 6th was just a walk through the monuments and through Congress to say hi to everyone?
A cuck is a man who lets joggers sodomize his family, sounds like home eh??
J6 is where homos like u ass-rape men in DC cages, who knew?
Oh for heavens sake. I read S howard as on-side and ironic (I mean, don’t get pissy), that BLM was, for most part peaceful, and that Capital riot was NOT tourists. No matter how I read S howard, I see big-sigh, sense of irony, about the characterizations--unaccounted for in trying to define woke, as any of: naive, holier-than-thou, or truly deeply seriously thoughtful. I mean. Read all with a shrug. Troll or Thinker, don’t give leverage to anything that gives you red eyes and an ulcer. You stand on firm foundation, don’t let “them” throw shade on what you read--seeing stuff that’s not there or bears no weight.
Foxplaining the insanity: https://youtu.be/P8GPuFSHkA8 LOL!
Except there is one party, specifically the Republicans marching towards fascism as if reading Umberto Eco's 14 Steps to Fascism as their go to playbook and party platform. It is about one of those parties in your paradigm here.
You hit it, Tom.
I am disturbed that independents would even consider DeSantis, whether or not Trump is out of jail and running for office. DeSantis is just as excited to install himself as the autocrat ruling our nation as Trump. DeSantis is a bit smarter, maybe, but at least as cruel, indifferent to people's suffering, and as racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, homo/transphobic and lacking in a moral compass as Trump or moreso. DeSantis is somewhat younger, usually talks in the non-accented Midwestern English so beloved by a lot of people. However, he is also a user just like his Trump mentor, and like the don, knows how to get people to act against their inclination and hurt people who don't deserve it. I am anxious to learn what it is that pulls independents toward DeSantis. Are they just telling themselves "well, at least it isn't Trump?" That does not bode well for our democracy because it means a whole chunk of those independents really want an autocrat, just the right autocrat. Clearly Biden has his problems, but he at least does seem to be working for the American people. He is, however, leaning a little too far right now, I guess trying to court the "independents." I want to tell him to just stop it. Democrats need someone who actually does care that kids are dying by guns, that our planet is suffering and must convert to renewable energy fast, and believes in the Constitution. Biden does stand for all of these. No one whom Republicans would nominate believes all three, if any of it, no matter what their mouth says.
I don't think Independents are being drawn to DeSantis anymore than they were to Trump. He's just as radical and insane. I'm an independent and I wouldn't vote for the little facist. Biden is still the preferred candidate of Independents if given a choice between him or Trump or DeSatan.
One size does not fit all. Here in Baghdad By the Sea independents broke for DeSantis and against "wokeness." All politics is local. Independents in Florida do not get a vote to decide who candidates will be in a general election.
Our problems are that Democrats in this state were disorganized, the DNC abandoned us, Blacks didn't vote, and that opposition to Fascism was sold to independents as pro communism.
Thank you for explaining more about the Willow project that I’d found for myself, Susan. There is a lot to be said for involving the people most directly affected in decisions that have significant effects and where there are competing interests. Murkowski, Peltola, and Native groups probably have shared goals and understand there are competing interests; compromises and a pace of change can maybe be set that people can digest and adjust to. I wonder what other industry they can turn to there for jobs.
Political action is often so reactionary; instead of agreeing on important goals and arguing about HOW to achieve them (e.g., regional jobs, stop global warming), we get parties in a tug-of-war, back-and-forth of blaming, lying about causes/options, and reversing each other’s actions.
Many voters aren’t aware of how extensive Pres.Biden’s commitment to mitigating climate change is, probably because it’s not covered by the media. The Inflation Reduction Act is the largest investment in countering climate change- I think-in the entire world. He’s been reviewing energy policies set by the Trump admin.in order to undo them-by executive order if possible. He rejoined the Paris Climate Agreement and hosted a virtual Climate Summit in 2021 with 40 world leaders.
The U.S. and China agreed on a framework to fight climate change by establishing environmental standards and policies for transition to renewable energy. China has agreed to adopt a national methane reduction plan as the U.S. already has.The Dept.of Energy has established a Clean Energy Corps to advance climate policies.
You may already know this—you can go to climateactiontracker.org to see more info. You can also go to: WH.org/climate to read more about his clean energy policies. He started a fund with other nations to help developing countries cope with drought & flooding and ordered the amount of of energy produced by offshore wind turbines to be doubled by 2030.
I would say you need to do your homework then if that's what you really believe.
Facts.
Unfortunate. Wokeness is merely being aware. Meaning one is educated about the issues facing society, a group of people a particular race or gender issue. Climate awareness etc. Gun control. Police brutality. To be aware is a good thing. Not communism. Communism is banning and burning books, singling out groups of people based on gender identity or race and trying to silence them. You know. The things the Republicans are doing.
While I agree with your definition of Woke, your definition of Communism is off base.....and to focus on it falls into the right wing trap of labeling Biden et al as such. What you describe instead is authoritarianism, totalitarianism, fascism.....etc. All of which are governing systems not economic systems, per se. e.g. Capitalism is an economic system, not a governing system. China is a Communist economy that uses Authoritarian principles to rule its people and command its economy. And yes, they ban books just like Florida.
In politics, appearance is more important than reality. I know all that. But independent voters in Florida do not.
IMO, if Trump is the nominee, Biden wins. If Trump is stopped, then Democrats need to find a new candidate.....one not so old. Time for Boomers to give way. The 2030's and beyond can't be all about them.
Biden has done a spectacular job being our US President. He accomplished so much during his first 2 years with a very slim majority. How he has handled NATO and Ukraine is another great accomplushment. I don't think Biden gets the credit he deserves. His age in my opinion is not a hindering factor. I look forward to voting for Biden for another term.
Me too......if he runs.
It'll be interesting to see who jumps in and falls out of 2024.
There is no 2030, Deagle Report says 2025 90% reduction of human USA population
Donald Hodgins
Writes Donald’s Substack
2 hr ago
The political system in our country is composed of three totally different ideologies. We know the Republicans, the Democrats, and the independents are the three main groups that make up our voting community. As it stands, no one group can elect a candidate on its own. Donald Trump has at his disposal about 75% of the Republican voting block, perhaps even a little bit less. In order for him to win anything he will need to draw a reasonable percentage of the votes from the independent's camp. The independents are people who think before they cast their opinions in an election. After watching the fiasco orchestrated by Donald Trump over the past few weeks, many voters have been left with a bad taste in their mouths. The man seems a bit unhinged to many people who are on the fence with regards to how they will vote in the 2024 election. The mind set of the MAGA crowd is encrusted in the political mud that covers the shoes of Mr. Trump. They are a lost cause, at least for the moment. The prospective fight between Trump and DeSantis will result in the Republican party being fractured. The squabble over party control will open the door for a Democratic victory if things continue on their current path. The game of musical chairs the Republicans are playing will serve no positive end. If the Republicans are to hold on to what they already have Trump has to go. Its time to change the preverbal diaper, the one the Republican party is currently wearing is full of ---"_hit."
Donald, the problem with Republicans choosing someone other than Trump, they have no one who has the same level of popularity (cult leadership), it will either give us a president who actually cares about this nation (the Democrat) or any Republican who cares for money and power alone and who will do everything to stay in power despite our Constitution (even Nikki H.). It is hard to see who Democrats have that is acceptable to the breadth of the party. Biden has done a really good job so far, but is now drifting right (the Willow project and detaining families at the border and other border difficulties). For me, no Republican could possibly win my vote. I just hope Democrats have someone who has the experience to stand against the Republican crazies.
Ruth--It is really strange to me that neither party has a candidate that people who understand our political theater can rally behind. Sure there are the political hacks that always seem to hang around in an attempt to make a splash in an arena where they simple aren't qualified to be. But where are the true politicians who really care about the country and who could actually help everyone concerned? When I was younger it didn't matter which party really won because you understood the guy winning the election would carry the country in a positive manner. Not so today, as Trump has proven. Personally I would like to see Mr. Jefferies throw his hat in the ring. I feel the Democrats have a good man in his shoes.
Dave --I went to high school with a Donna who carried your last name. If I had more stones I would have asked her out, she was really something.
The Dems are not getting any press these days. They need to stand up against the NOISE.
Trump calls for defunding US Justice Department and FBI
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/04/05/701036/Trump-calls-for-defunding-US-Justice-Department-and-FBI
Just like that Trump has gone and went full BLM&anti-fa; Who Knew?
Go away.
I hate morons, who cannot put their cuck'd iPhone down and find a keyboard and say what they mean. You have this woke-cuck who calls herself 'terry' that refuses to open its heart to us, what can we say; Thumbs down bitch.
Absolutely agree about Biden leaning right lately. I see it most on environment and guns. Also, completely agree with your assessment of desantis. I always enjoy reading your comments here!
Melissa, Thank you. I really like reading and writing for this group of people on the thread. People here are so insightful and interesting, as well as willing to share resources and other information. It makes my day!
I do fear that OIL will still be our undoing -- Ask people in the Mid-West if they think dealing with climate change can be postponed a bit -- especially those people who survived a massive death-dealing tornado LAST week, only to see another one come through THIS week and kill some more.
We need someone who says he hold Biden’s values, and then sticks by them. It could even BE Biden, but he has to prove it.
Like so many would-be American despots, DeSantis is a product of what are considered some of America's top schools, Harvard and Yale.
Isn't it time these universities took a good look at what they are imparting to students?
Although in DeSantis' case, his ideas about race may have been solidified long before his arrival at these esteemed universities, as may be the case for pretty much everyone--
shouldn't schools take a look to see if there's something (more) they can do to impart social conscience iin their communities?
https://www.businessinsider.com/former-student-ron-desantis-he-was-hostile-because-she-black-2022-11
I’m going to take a wild guess--I have a feeling that if President Biden seems to be leaning a tad toward the right, it’s because he’s mindful that we’re just a few months away from when campaigning begins for the 2024 presidential election.
I agree with you on DeSantis Ruth. Plus, he seems to have a rather frantic energy more often than not. (Trump’s energy feels belligerent most of the time.)
Energy aside, as we get closer to the next election two of the main topics we’ll hear about from republicans are probably going to be our southern border and the economy. Re the border, republicans
have repeatedly voted against making more money available to secure the border, then complain that
President Biden is at fault for all of the border problems. If anyone wants to know more about the administration’s plans for the border they can go to
WH.gov/southern border
Although I see tweets all day, every day complaining about the dismal state of our economy, it’s actually doing quite well. Celia Rouse, Chair of the U.S. Council of Economic Advisors, says “U.S. inflation and jobs reports show the fastest recovery in 30 years under Biden. “These are extraordinary times for America's economy. Recent data suggest our labor market remains strong even as inflationary pressures are showing signs of easing.”
“Annual inflation back in June 2022 was 9.1%; last month, it had declined to 6.4 percent. In fact, annual inflation has declined seven months in a row. At the same time, we have experienced the fastest jobs recovery from a recession in the last three decades.“
(cnbc. com, 2/14/23, by Celia Rouse)
Susan, you are on target related to the economy and the rest. I still can't understand why Republicans support their leaders' lying, even when it comes to issues that involve them, like the economy, which is clearly better than during the pandemic, even with inflation. Are those Republicans supporters so sure they are going to make it rich that unless they become rich, everyone else is to blame, and if that is the case, why don't they ever hold their leaders responsible since they are hording a lot of the funds that could benefit Republicans? I guess the lies of Fox et all are more powerful than what one is actually experiencing. I read somewhere that Republicans would prefer to suffer as long as they believe the people they despise (Black and Brown people) are suffering more. Maybe that is why they continue to support liars, cheaters, and those who do not respect our Constitution. They feel those guys will suffer more, so it's OK whatever they do. That really is sick, if true!
Trump represents getting sucked into the death spiral of democracy. But the #RepubloFascism he has started will outlast his presence on the political stage, unless we manage to do three things:
1- Establish that 70% of America is wise to his lies and that most folks know that manipulation was the goal all along.
2- Rally America around the notion of reaffirming a fair, transparent, and verifiable voting process that can be depended upon. This involves public, not private funding for all campaigns, ending all gerrymandering, and taking away each state’s ability to tilt the vote towards their state congressional bodies’ desires.
3- Make honor in politics the litmus test for everyone that takes a podium. Every example of hypocrisy should be worn like an anvil hanging from their necks. And everyone that has chosen personal gain over professional integrity should be voted out at the next opportunity.
This is how we have to imagine our nation going forward. If we fall short, we are giving into American entropy.
you need the media for this.
Here's hoping that Fox and media that spread the big lie will soon be bankrupt and that should be an object lesson to "newsrooms" in all media.
Throw in the successful prosecution of the principal officers in the National Rifle Association.
Public financing of elections and this prosecution will be two big steps forward.
as dave said, it's about the media. We, all of us, have allowed our media landscape to go to hell over the last 30 years. Sick media, sick democracy. Sick economy, sick democfracy.
Bear this in mind, too: if a case challenging Wisconsin’s Gerrymandered legislative and Congressional districts is put before the state’s Supreme Court as newly constituted with Judge Janet Protasiewicz on the panel, and the new majority overturns the previous court’s upholding of that Gerrymander, the districts will be redrawn, most likely to ensure, as much as possible, that each will contain nearly equal numbers of registered Democrats and Republicans, leaving it up to the Independents to decide who will be elected to represent them — which is as it should be.
Elections actually decided by which candidates make the more convincing and truthful arguments — can Wisconsin stand such a radical prospect?
Republicans now have a super majority in Wisconsin's congress. They will impeach the new judge and any that they dont like. Even if that fails, who will redraw the districts?
They may not impeach Judge Protaseiwicz. They may feel the backlash would be too extreme.
Independents determine every election. Independents are mostly conservative voters that don't want to join the Repub Party for obvious reasons. They don't like the Democratic Party because they don't like the liberal leaning the party has on some issues. So, there they are, left without a group to align with. I've always felt it necessary to work within a group in order to affect change and get things done. I'm also a person who likes to be loyal to a group, and Democrats have generally suited me well. That doesn't mean I always have to vote straight party line although I always have. I can't see myself ever voting for a Repub.
It's far too early to tell what the political landscape will look like until we get closer to '24. From my contact with conservatives, it doesn't appear that they are losing their devotion to trump. They seem to be holding fast. As the other shoes begin to fall here in Georgia and at the federal level, we may see a crack develop in the trump loyal. My crystal ball is telling me very little. trump appears to be weakening. His energy level is at an all time low. DeSantis hasn't even announced yet. It looks like the time for him to announce is close at hand if he plans on running. I don't see how trump can run a successful campaign against both Biden and DeSantis. He has plenty of money, but can he muster the energy necessary to win two campaigns? He's not a young man. On the other hand, if DeSantis runs, he will turn off many Repubs in the fight just like how Sanders' supporters refused to vote for Hillary. This could turn into an election of the weakest candidates this country has seen in a long time. It's just too early to tell.
Charlie, I, like you like being part of a group that works for something positive, and Democrats do that for me too. I have in the past voted for a few Republicans, but that was before the insanity of ultra-conservativism that does nothing for anyone but the ultras themselves. Those folks care for nothing but their own power and the money that will get it for them, a serious addiction to only that. Independents can sit back until the last minute and jump in to conservatize any election, and for what! I don't understand. Is it they don't want to have to support anyone or to show they are above the fray as it were? What startled me more than Sanders supporters not voting for Hillary Clinton was the many who jumped on the Trump wagon in 2016. How is that possible? Did they really believe Trump would serve our nation better than Hillary or was it just for spite because she won the nomination? In any case, it was good only for the Liar in chief, not for our nation. Thank goodness there were only a few of them that I have heard about.
Please stop saying Sanders supporters didn’t vote for HRC unless you can prove it. Most of us held our noses and did vote for her. And very few flipped to the orange clown. Simply repeating this false narrative doesn’t make it true.
Having worked the primary election for Sanders (and supported the Democratic nominee in the General Election) I would say that more Bernie supporters moved to Tulsi Gabbard than to DJT. But a lot of them did not support Clinton, and it made a difference. Sometimes, the left is as clueless as the right.
I’m not surprised some jumped to Tulsi; surely there are regrets there, as she has evolved her rhetoric.
There seems to be an assumption here that Independents “wait, then jump” and that they 1) jump to whoever is more conservative, or 2) deliver a spoiler vote when they’re ticked off.
I am a lifelong Independent. I have never voted for a candidate that I did not think could win; that is throwing away your vote in a duopoly, such as we have. I want to bust up the duopoly. That’s one reason I support ranked choice, STAR, and proportional voting. I want to see what voters really want, as evidenced by their actual VOTE, not by what pundits and pollsters say. I am not, and have never been, a single issue voter. I think that’s ridiculous; federal governments need to capably manage an array of complex issues.
Although, now that authoritarian rule is on the ballot, I’ll vote Democrat every time until I see sustained behavioral change. I voted for Larry Hogan when I lived in MD and it annoyed me when Dems sent postcards trying to convince me to vote Dem up and down the ticket. Hogan is a good Governor, as far as I know. I don’t want to live in a cultic group; been there, done that. Now, however, with the way the GOP is behaving, I would not vote for a Republican for any reason in any election.
We have Greens, Libertarians, Republicans, Democrats, Forward Party and Independents working together to bring RCV to North Carolina. I want pro-democracy reforms that are consistent with majoritarian rule / minority interest protections. With the aim to co-create a more humane, just, and equitable society of people who experience wellbeing, trending higher on all measures. That means progressive economic policy. That’s why I read Mr. Reich; I’m a social scientist, not an economist, so I need to understand more about economics (and foreign policy as well).
The problem with all that is that the American voting public is way to dumb and uneducated to deal with a system like that. They can barely vote now. In fact 45% don't bother voting at all.
No one could have said it better, doc. I see things the same way.
I know many of them personally. That's the truth of it. I also know human behavior.
You are absolutely right about everything. Politics makes people who don't have a strong value system do some pretty bad things.
I have always been an Independent and, since your description is inaccurate as pertains to me, I wonder how you came to the conclusion that “Independents are mostly conservative voters that don’t want to join the Republican Party for obvious reasons.” What are the obvious reasons? Trump? Culture Wars? Views on how the economy works? What are the “liberal leaning” issues the Dems have endorsed that you have concluded Independents don’t like? On what basis have you reached that conclusion?
I wonder if we simply don’t know much about who Independents are and the policies they prefer. I have mostly felt alone as an Independent; just as I did being the sole atheist that I knew, for sure, for decades.
The claims that Mr. Reich made about Independents made sense to me: detest political polarization/paralysis and detest the violence, chaos, and authoritarianism of Trump and his ilk, including DeSantis.
Being disinclined to “be loyal to a group,” loyalty demands do not sit well with me, from either party. I want to see ranked choice voting, independent election commissions, and most especially to end the influence of dark money in politics. I want WYSIWYG: politicians who say what they mean and do what they say.
docpatti, everyone is so testy today! Arguing over what woke means? I agree with what you wrote and as I switch my voter affiliation back and forth here in PA since we don’t have open primaries, (Republican for primary and Democrat for general), your description is how I believe most Independents feel about politics. It’s not a sporting event. No one likes a liar, hypocrite, a cheat. I’m really angry at liars today. You know, the seat stealing NC Rep Tricia Cotham ran as a Democrat supporting reproductive rights, anti-gun legislation. Got elected on those issues then screwed NC voters by switching to Republican giving the House a veto-proof supermajority to Republicans with no provision for a recall. What a lying, corrupt individual. She’s a fraud and voters in NC would be wise to vote her out in 2014.
I’m really mad about liars, too! And the Cotham situation here in NC is a big problem. I hope it will activate people and help to get out the vote. We didn’t have great turnout from urban or youth voters last time.
It’s reassuring to me that another voter sees Independents in the way that I see myself. Honestly, I have no idea. Maybe unaffiliated voters mostly are RINOs, as some suggest. I hope not (and I don’t think so. Lots of young people choose unaffiliated). I hope most of us are as you and I seem to believe: it’s not a sporting event. It is serious, and complex; it requires skills; it would be “ideal” if we elected people who were capable.
There is an interesting question for me about the House, and having MTG, Boebert, and other anti-intellectuals elected to serve. Based on the principle of government for the people, by the people, those elected who come in without elite status claims (and associated experiences, knowledge, etc.) of a Yale education, high-ranking corporate job, coming up in a “political family” and whatever else qualifies ... well, it makes sense. To me, just thinking out loud, it seems that if people get elected on passion and then learn a lot about how government works on the job, that might be OK, as an equalizer and a way to incorporate the diverse views and experiences of the American populace.
When highly educated progressives present as know-it-alls, that is a problem. I remember reading Aristide’s book on a plane once, about how progressives who wanted to help Haiti introduced pigs incapable of living off the land, as the smaller native pigs did. A lot of pigs died and a lot of Haitians starved.
Hi, Karen. Thank you and please call me Patti. I registered Democrat when I moved to NC, not realizing that I could vote in primaries as unaffiliated. I believe the data that Reich shared (I admit, with all the Substacks that I read, I may forget content of OP when commenting as time goes on. Bad, but true.)
Have you ever heard of the SCARF model? Status, Certainty, Autonomy, Relatedness, Fairness. It’s a neuroscience view of what humans perceive as a threat.
Some people who comment seem to lean toward having Certainty. They like knowing and being right. That’s not how I register when I take the free assessment: https://neuroleadership.com/research/tools/nli-scarf-assessment/
To me, dude who said I wanted an ideal world that is impossible to achieve does not understand me. He would score higher on the need for Certainty than I do. I distribute what triggers me, mostly threats to autonomy, relatedness, and fairness.
I’m comfortable with uncertainty and believe humans are evolving. Not fast enough, but capable of doing so. Hoping Putin or Trump dies in not a timely or realistic response to their anti-social behavior (aka depravity). I embraced that thinking when I lived in a cult, the Lafayette Morehouse, in the 70s and 80s. It’s not a viable solution or approach to productive change efforts.
ranked choice voting is not that complicated. Approval voting, striving for the same objectives as RCV, is even simpler and may be on our MO ballot in the fall.
It really is NOT that complicated.
Sounds like you want a utopian world. Well, I do too, but it ain't going to happen. Ranked voting is far too complicated for the American voter and the American politician. What we need are better politicians who care for the people of this country, and until that happens, no change in the way we vote will help. It seems as though we have been going down hill as far as better politicians are concerned. That's not to say there aren't some good Democrats. There aren't enough, and there are no good Repubs.
I’m like Jill Biden. Lots of people, including the APA, somehow believe that our advanced degrees do not qualify us to use the prefix Dr. Only medical doctors. What ev.
Not true at all. Too much hard work not to get proper credit for it.
That’s kind of you to say, Charlie, and I appreciate it b/c it was a lot of work and it’s not meaningless to me. And, no, the credential for me is not really about having right answers; it was about how to ask questions, gather evidence, analyze data, and draw well-reasoned conclusions. For the research project, I interviewed 22 people who grew up in cultic groups and decided to leave. It was exploratory and inconclusive. The findings pertain to adults leaving gangs, prison, abusive relationships, coming out of the closet. The international cultic studies association folks weren’t particularly interested in those cross-disciplinary applications; they are (were?) more focused on harm, e.g., the group psychological abuse scale. I was focused on positive adult development: identity distress and post-traumatic growth. This info may give you more context regarding the part of the content in your OP that I reacted to and why. Again, thx for the conversation. 🙂
And please, call me Patti. As a social scientist who got her degree while in her 50s in a society where earning a doctorate doesn’t seem to mean much ... well, I put doc in my handle. but it is essentially meaningless. We’re all just people. With lots of lived experience, and ways of knowing what we know.
Patti,
I think a doctorate indicates a lot of formal study and I don't think that is meaningless. It is an impressive amount of work and knowledge. Of course, it doesn't necessarily make a person right about things even in their field of study, but it should help lead them to the right answers.
Also, why didn’t you answer any of my questions? I really do want to know ...
docpatti
I'll be glad to answer any question if you will ask me the question. I'm not going to go through your responses and did out the questions.
Here is one question answered as to the breakdown of independents according to Gallop in 2021. In my view a moderate tends to be more conservative than liberal.
Gallop says:
Independents' views were unchanged in 2021, with close to half (48%) identifying as moderate, 30% as conservative and 20% as liberal. That's why I say independents are more conservative. The country itself is still slightly more conservative than liberal according to Gallop and other polls.
OK. As you can see, I found your response to at least one of my questions. My view is that those polls are an incomplete view of reality.
I tend to agree, but they are the best info that we have. I judge everything based on my knowledge, experiences and my research, but it doesn't make for good evidence for someone else. You may have a different experience, and there's nothing I can do to change your mind.
I’m idealistic, optimistic, and pragmatic.
or GOP might turn to another candidate not so crazy. Trump is in trouble. Desantis will not have wide appeal and keeps making mistakes. A younger GOP candidate who presents as moderate will beat an old Biden with Kamala. A wise Biden has decided not to run. (Hah).
I don't see a younger Repub who could possibly develop any sort of following in time to be a plausible candidate. Biden is sure to run as long as his health holds up, and probably has the best chance of winning the presidency, even though he may not be the favorite prospect for the presidency. He wasn't the favorite in 2020 either, yet here he is, the president. I will support him regardless.
It wouldn't be the first time an "unknown" quickly rose to prominence during a Presidential campaign. Not saying it will happen in 2024. But a Youngkin for example could be a household name overnight in our media environment. Hoping the R dysfunction continues.
Stranger things have happened. Maybe they haven't, but anything is possible. Well, maybe it isn't, but it's true that some moderate right winger could come out of the woodwork, but I just don't see it happening. I think trump is still too strong to allow that to happen even though he is damaged. The extinct is still unknown as of yet. The world of politics has been very strange since trump came down the escalator and it continues. We need to do away with him once and for all. That I'm sure of!
Musk says that Trump is running for only one reason, to get a pardon for him & family.
If Trump can make a deal with deSantis to dropout and deSantis promises a pardon, then Trump doesn't need to fight it out Trump-2024;
The reason that Trump wants a full family pardon, for everyone including kids and Kushners is wide, but most of it is so the $12 Trillion USD "War on Covid" funds don't get clawed back that all got funneled into big-pharma and billions flowed into to Baron-Foundation, Ivanka-Foundation, Kushner-Foundation.
This is not a RINO problem, HRC has $20 Billion USD in her Clinton-Foundation held in Dubai-Qatar;
I became unaffiliated many years ago. I personally think all Americans should register as Independent and then vote with your best judgment for the person who you believe will have the best intentions for the Country and the people.
I have to be registered as a dem or repub to vote in that party’s primary. If Biden runs unopposed I might switch to independent. However, that would mean that I would get cold calls and a bundle of unwanted mail from both parties. And there is no way on this earth that I am ever going to vote for a republican. Never never never. Since Reagan bungled the HIV epidemic (causing great pain and suffering and death) and cut taxes on the wealthy and spent at least his last 2 years with moderate dementia to Bush W getting us into long lasting Vietnam style wars under false pretenses to tcd (the criminal defendant) bungling covid epidemic (causing great pain and suffering and death) and cutting taxes on the wealthy some more and spending all four years in a state of mental illness and then inviting and promoting a coup attempt that almost succeeded, not to mention the constant threat to the rights and bodily autonomy of women and LGBTQ.......So no not ever voting for anyone with an R next to their name.
You mean unopposed by anyone other than idiots? Non starters like Williamson?
I’m pretty much with you, Sky 777. I’m voting Dem. My concern is that one party rule poses significant, very serious problems. Ideally, I’d like to see diverse views represented ... along with an increased ability (and motivation, hence incentives) to work it out.
I agree with you docpatti about one party rule and need for action and compromise and integrity. What I am not seeing is is any of those things from Republicans. The gerrymandering and the Supreme Court debacle and the really stupid and dangerous fight over the debt ceiling and all the lies told over and over leave me with NO respect for the Republican party in its current form. It seems they do not care about citizens, only donors and they are disingenuous and outright liars. I do not agree with Liz Cheny's views on most things. However, because of the way she comported herself post 1/6/21, she has my respect. People like her who identify as republican are becoming as rare as hen's teeth.
I completely agree with everything you’ve said, Sky. When I voted for Republicans in the past, it was as a relatively uninformed, relatively disengaged voter.
I didn’t pay much attention to politics until 2016 and what I’ve learned since then gives me hives. I’m very grateful to Substack authors, and commentators, for the education that I’m finally getting on how all of this works, and what people and parties have done over time.
Are we hearing also considering the hopeful removal of the Electoral College in that?
You got my vote
I live in a state that does not have party registration.
I also live in a state where I don’t have to declare my party. For the primary, I walk in, say if I want the Rep or Dem ballot. After I’ve voted, I go to another table, and “unregister”. I’m also a fan of ranked choice voting, at least for some elections.
Wow Tom, That’s quite rare.
In Alabama you register to vote but there is no party registration. When Primary day comes around, you go to your polling location and ask for one of the following ballots: Republican, Democrat or Constitutional Amendments Only.
So anyone can vote in either primary? Where's that?
Yes. In NC, as an unaffiliated voter, I can vote in whatever primary I prefer.
Yes. Alabama.
I like that option as well. But in many states voters have no ability to influence primary elections unless they register to one party of the duopoly.
Thank you for the information. I am surprised at the number of unaffiliated voters and shocked at the amount of money spent on elections. The Wisconsin Supreme Court election just used up 68 million dollars. Do that many people still watch TV commercials? We fast forward through them. When my hand isn't fast enough on the remote trigger, I notice MSNBC's commercials are targeted toward drug sales to hypochondriacs or car commercials (who can afford a new car)? What a waste of money. Why can't we have publicly funded elections like some other countries do? Looking forward to your class tomorrow morning.
Citizens United, that's why
Not to mention that some interests would be unable to buy our politicians.
Absolutely, Why can't we have publicly funded elections like some other countries do? thank you Gloria!
Not just publicly funded elections, but more 2 political parties.
so much money. so much freedom of speech courtesy of the Supreme court. SCOTUS has ripped down the barriers protecting our democracy.
There are more unaffiliated voters in NC than either major party.
Check out the %'s! 40% are independent, the two parties are 30% each! Except in Congress, which continues to MIS-represent the electorate. Something's amiss in our 'party' system, which looks more and more like fraternities at a rich kids' school, looking inward rather than dealing with the issues of the public at large.
DeSantis less loathsome than tRump ?Hardly. Both are truly disgusting to this independent, but very liberal, voter. Even though it indicates there is only one political party in the country, and the other is nothing but a cult, let them run tRump again. He will lose resoundingly. DeSantis is a dangerous fascist too, and supposedly smarter than tRump (not like that takes much). A DeSantis presidency would also be disastrous for the country and continue the policies of rolling back long established social rights and failure to address actual important issues like healthcare and maintenance of existing infrastructure, never mind initiatives for new infrastructure which has been neglected under both parties leadership. We need a government concerned with the people’s business, the people’s welfare. Not one that spends their time infighting and policing themselves with gotcha stunts.
While we focus on national politics, GOP legislatures in states like Texas, Tennessee and Idaho are trying to ban an American citizens right to cross state lines among other things. Trump is not our biggest problem!!
No, but trumpism emboldened a lot of this.
I was not excited about Biden. Basically I voted against the despicable Trump. However, Biden has brought sanity and stability to governance for which his administration has been little press coverage. The legislation has been moderate but significant. The Fed rather than Biden is to blame for bank failure. At almost 91, I could predict that raising interest rates was a terrible idea. I hope sanity prevails!
Thanks for the important information on independent voters, Dr. Reich.
I would have switched to independent years ago, but I live in New York State, which continues as a closed primary state.
And since many contests in NY are basically decided during primaries, I want my vote to count, so I'm registered as a Democrat out of necessity.
So, while NYS is considered a deep blue state, there are still antidemocratic voting procedures that need serious reappraisal and correction.
I'm also looking forward to your course.
Deborah, I would like to see in all states, a way that independent voters can vote in any primary, choosing which party's election they will participate in just before they vote. We in PA don't allow that, but we should. I get it that some states claim to worry that independents would vote to screw up one or other of the partys' choice, but I suspect over time, that would dry up and independents would vote for a candidate they actually like.
Well, finally, Rump is shooting himself in the foot, as are all the rest of the Trump GOPers. The group outside of Mar-a-Lago was slim. Trump found himself in hostile territory in New York. The jerk that got beat in Wisconsin was a good example. He had to drench himself in false righteousness. I'm glad the younger set is largely not falling for this. The GOP is sounding very much like the Southern Democrats who supported slavery. They couldn't imagine a different world and were sure they were right. Change is a-comin', folks. And none too soon.
From your keyboard...
Excellent analysis of the shifting demographics of America's voters. Indeed we do need a 3rd party eventually to replace the corrupt and seditious activities of today's GOP insurrectionists. We can just call it the American party, with no platforms except to follow the fairly elected mandates of the American people and to outlaw gerrymandering and judicial court stacking, especially SCOTUS which needs expanded to 13 justices to accurately represent the 13 federal appellate districts.
Until then vote 🗳 blue 🗳 💙 Until the GOP is a distant bad memory. Even ol Abe Lincoln would agree 👍
I’m careful about so-called “third” parties. Why three? What effect do/could the Greens, Libertarians, Forward Party, No Labels, and so on have on the process? Recent coverage of the $$ behind No Labels throws shade on the idea that we trust an “American party, with no platform except to follow the fairly elected mandates of the people.”
If the Republican choice turned out to be Trump or DeSantis, that would hardly be a choice since both of them are despicable individuals and politicians. Both are cruel, amoral despots, temperamentally and strategically. I have no particular fondness for Joe Biden, especially since he has approved destruction of a part of the Alaskan wilderness to please the fossil fuel industry and accommodate insatiable consumer wants over precious and dwindling places of the Earth and the creatures who are being decimated and abused every which way by our selfish, careless species. If we continue down this path there will soon be nothing but condominiums, golf courses, shopping malls, poisons and garbage on land, in the oceans, rivers, streams - every once lovely, clean place now bleak, depleted, miserable: the human contribution to planetary existence.
And let us not forget the countless billions of birds, fishes, mammals and insects condemned to incarcerated Hell merely to satisfy our grotesque appetite for the taste of animal pain and body parts. From the standpoint of this planet, our entire species is "Trump." He is a symptom and an exemplar of ourselves and the multiple diseases, moral, mental, and physical, that we are spreading everywhere with no end in sight. - Karen Davis, PhD, President, United Poultry Concerns
Karen, don’t despair, Homo Sapiens used to eat each other. From a once endangered species, we have overpopulated this planet and caused significant damage to all other species. However the Earth will recover after we are gone. At almost 91,I have to endure the smell of broccoli from the kitchen. Carol ,only MA
Carol, I often comfort myself with knowing how resilient this glorious, amazing planet really is. Ecosystems are extraordinarily adaptive. People are, too, it’s just that when we’re insulated from consequences, we don’t think we have to. Being lazy, we don’t.
Pave paradise. Put up a parking lot. Joni had it right, way back then.
It was always necessary to woo the independents, now even more so. I was more concerned about Desantis being the Republican nominee than I was about Trump, whose resurrection is a green light to a liberal agenda by the DNC. Let's see if HRC, Axelrod, Brazil, and Clyburn blow it again.
Personally, I think Democrats ought to look more closely at registered Black voters who don't exercise their rights and young people, who tend to be more open-minded that to put all the effort into Independents, who are, demonstratively, a mixed bag. People are already complaining in Wisconsin about the student vote, which had a big effect on Tuesday's outcome.
Unregistered Black voters could easily turn Florida blue.
find out what the LWV is doing down there.
I agree. My comment was not about independents per se, but about the fact that the DNC needs to be - and I almost hate to say this - poll driven. For example, if the DNC had paid attention to the numbers in 2016, they would never have sandbagged Sanders. It's a scientific approach to giving people an agenda that they want - you could call it modern democracy, made possible in this digital age.
While is true that there are quite a few independents who are holding their noses while voting for Trump, in the (incorrect) belief that he will help their 401Ks, nevertheless I believe polls will show that they are greatly outnumbered by people who would vote for 1) abortion rights, 2) gun control, 3) universal healthcare, 4) forgiveness of student loans, 5) progressive taxation. THESE are the issues the DNC should campaign on.
There is a precedent. In 1945, after WWII, there was an election in the UK. Understandably, it was widely assumed that Winston Churchill would be re-elected. This assumption was also held by the Labour Party, which had to come up with a manifesto. Some bright spark said that, since we're going to lose anyway, instead of hedging to the right as we always do, why not tell voters what we really think? And so the manifesto included universal healthcare, higher education for all, and taxing the wealthy to pay for it (they didn't have to worry about gun control, at least not then).
Famously, Labour won in a landslide.