Sad as it is, it’s exactly what I expected would happen. Part of the settlement SHOULD have been an admission of guilt by everyone who pushed the big lie and it should have taken place live on air.
Derek, My understanding was that the delay in settling mostly was due to controversy over how an apology/“admission of guilt” would be framed. While I expect we’ll never know precisely why Dominion caved, we can derive some comfort from the fact that we have a trove of damaging pre-trial discovery documentation. We just have to figure out how best to put it to use.
We do know why the two (2) Fox Defendants settled after Judge Davis' case controlling PRE- trial ruling that 19 separate Fox satements were false as matter of law of the case.
After Judge Davis Pre-Trial rulings (plural), the Plaintiff, Dominion, was able to focus on the very difficult to reach legal standard of NY Times vs Sullivan, 'actual malice' in knowingly making 19 false false statements while maliciously hiding the truth from their captured viewers.
The details compelling Fox's settlement were discussed over at LFAA on March 31 through April 1, 2023 although Judge Davis' day-of-Trial rulings helped considerably to forge the largest dollar settlement of a commercial defamation case in the history of the United States.
We forget that Dominion is not our superhero. They never signed up for that. We assigned that. That’s our habit. “THEY will save democracy for us!” Yet it only was about business - the bottom line. Working out the word-salad dripping with weak sauce explanation to a nation hoping for justice must have been the delay. We all know this is pocket change for fox and won’t alter a damn thing. That’s up to us.
You absolutely nailed it, MLRGRM! If we want to preserve democracy, we must do the work ourselves. Dominion is a business trying to save itself and its reputation, not a caped superhero. I'm impressed they hung in as long as they did, given the Murdochs' reputation for anything-goes behind-the-scenes dirty tricks during lawsuits. That said, I'm disappointed. I was hoping to see blood in the water, metaphorically speaking.
The "blood in the water" wtll not be Tucker's Producer who was set up to bleed profusely; her two (2) lawsuits against Fox & Fellow Travelers were one of the many reasons that the case collapsed into a 787.5 milion dollar settlement with the Jury seated.
And that's great news! So refreshing to see the fall-guy - or in this case, fall-gal, prevail over the corporate BlackHats. No, I was hoping to see some Murdoch or Pucker Carlson blood in the water.
YES! Thank you. I just spent an hour on another site saying exactly what Terry and MLRGRM said (and you both said it better than I did, with fewer words!)
Well, now we know how Fox plans to recoup costs: Check My Ads has reported that Media Matters says they may plan to increase their cable fees:
"As our friends over at Media Matters have highlighted, Fox is likely negotiating higher cable box fees with Charter Spectrum, Comcast Xfinity, and COX right now to prop up Fox News — despite its massive advertising (and, now, legal) losses."
Ironic that the Fox Cult is being asked to pay for Fox's lies. Come to think of it, many other cable subscribers often complain bitterly that they don't want to pay for Fox in their cable package. Capitalism always wins . . .
No, we didn't "forget", not for one second. We were just hopeful. The damage Murdoch, Fox and Co. have and will continue to do on our democracy is immense, possibly insurmountable, barring a scenario in which they have to admit their many lies TO THEIR AUDIENCE.
Well, they didn't have to become complicit, though, did they? In this country run by corporations, we may need some bravery from at least a handful of them.
In a David worth Goliath situation a poor client will frequently take a settlement with non disclosure and a big payout instead of fighting the case out through and through. If there is anything to be learned from Robert Reichs The System Who rigged it and how we fix it, is thay we have to fix the issues. Corporations and the rich will only serve their own self interest and only coincidentally our own.
How are they complicit? It's not Dominion's job to protect our democracy in the court of law. The case was a defamation case and 100% about Dominion protecting their company from the outrageous false claims made by Fox News' bobbing heads. That's our job as citizens and our elected officials.
Look at the mess happening in the Senate right now with Dianne Feinstein, who should have retired a decade ago. Right now Biden can't get any of his picks for federal courts done due to the ego of an 89 year old senator. That's a huge problem for the Democrats and the Republicans are chomping at the bit here and rooting for Feinstein to drag this out for as long as possible.
Yes Jeff. And I am still angry with RBG for doing the SAME DAMN THING which got us a right wing Supreme Court to the degree that it will be years before that can be reversed. Obama and Biden tried to convince her to retire but she refused. So now we have this.
Bryan, While I appreciate the clarifications, in a suit I had imagined might have irreparably disgraced Fox, accepting that money is accountability is a tough pill to swallow. Hence, I take heart from the trove of damaging pre-trial discovery, including text messages, emails, and under-oath testimony we actually have.
I agree Barbara Jo, Smartmatic will benefit greatly in their 2.7 Billion dollar defamation lawsuit. Fox's acknowledgement of Judge Davis' legal findings of 19 Lies have lasting value under a legal doctrine called 'res judicata', the thing has already been decided or as an admission against interest.
I will monitor SMARTMATIC's pre-trial motions. The Main Event is approaching.
Retired Attorney here after 30 years of NorCal state & Federal litigation & trials. The Smartmatic USA v Fox case is venued in New York not Delaware. Smartmatic USA has already prevailed on an early appeal in that case 5-0. Buckle up.
Judge Davis's pretrial findings are not binding in any other lawsuit. The suit was settled pretrial, and so there is no judgment that would be res judicata of anything. One of Fox's reasons for settling was certainly to avoid a judgment in Judge Davis's court that could potentially be res judicata against Fox in another case.
Irreparable disgrace should have already registered, IF truth and facts were what mattered. Clearly those for whom this likens to religion do NOT want to see the truth, they like the lies and are more than willing to pay for them, vote for them, and as we know, post Jan 6, go to battle for them.
A E F, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to say, while I agree with you, I also believe there exists a swath of indoctrinated people fed only on partisan information and opinion that confirm their own bias, who are not entirely unreachable.
Barbara, the problem is the people who need to hear about the' trove of pre-trial discovery' will never hear about it. But then again they probably would not have believed it anyway.
Rolyac, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to say, while you could be right, part of my work relies on my conviction that there exists a swath of indoctrinated people fed only on partisan information and opinion that confirm their own bias, who are not entirely unreachable.
Its meaningless when it becomes one money grubbing corporation sucking off another one. The McDonalds hot coffee burned crotch settlement had a much more profound and useful effect on how McDonalds did business than this did. It doesnt change a thing. Maybe the little news like Newsmax and OAN will think twice? Again so what there viewership is tiny compared to Fox.
I think that Dominion is still suing Newsmax and OAN, along with Rudy and Sidney and several others (I could be wrong on details, but there are still other suits). Fox was the big fish, but not the only fish.
Bill, As I have posted elsewhere, in light of the trove of damaging pre-trial discovery we actually have, I don’t imagine we have heard the end of the ripples from the Dominion v. Fox complaint.
Agreed with so much discovery already and also evidence tampering this isnt over. Lets see what was inadmissible this time will be admissible for smartmatic.
I think "ripples" is a good description of the effect of these lawsuits on right wing media and their viewers. The Fox News/Newsmax viewers in my household don't give a damn about this stuff. Lawyers will make lots of money, and progressives will feel vindicated in our belief concerning right wing media, but that's about it. Depressing!
Tim, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to say, while your assessment, admittedly, stemming from direct experience, might be accurate, a part of my work relies on my conviction that there exists a swath of indoctrinated people fed only on partisan information and opinion that confirm their own bias, who are not entirely unreachable.
I also comment that Dominion has had a successful team of lawyers and staff working on this and I will guess that will continue. A Team like that breeds success.
Dave, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write because I, too, believe that due to the Dominion team’s exemplary litigation, subsequent suits against Fox could produce even more powerful results.
This settlement is no doubt more “just business”. We do not in fact know what Dominion owners really think or believe about politics. However, we do know they don’t want anyone disparaging their voting machines while their doing it.
Murdoch clearly does have an agenda and knows how to put pressure on people, both now and in the future, and he has the money to do it. I would imagine that the “real” deal was hammered out in private.
G.P., I think you said it well: ‘....the “real” deal was hammered out in private’. It was apparent that Murdoch was prepared to risk the entire $1.6 Bn, absent a “better solution” given the fact that Fox let the trial progress right up to finishing jury selection. The difference between $800 M and the sum named in the original suit left a lot of loose change on (under) the table. Are there two or three Dominion executives hypothetically in a position to affect Dominion’s decision to settle for the $600 M? And how would they react to a sub rosa offer of a couple hundred (tax free) million bucks each, deposited in an off shore account for their “special attention to the matter”? I’ve seen this kind of crap many times in corporations I’ve worked for. The people at the top are frequently sociopaths and will do anything for personal gain. I have very little faith in capitalism, and increasingly, in our judicial system.
I agree. The troves of Fox/hosts lies will come forward, some have already, hopefully these files, emails etc. will show the American people, including Fox regular watchers that Fox lied for many reasons. An on-air admission of guilt by each Host would be lovely. As, the regular watchers of Fox believe Dominion voting machines changed votes.
Kathryn, Thank you for writing. While I don’t expect any live admissions of guilt, I think we can take heart from knowing that a trial transcript would read pretty much the same as the pre-trial production—text messages, emails, and under-oath testimony—we actually have.
I think with what we can do and find these days we’ll out these dementors. All of them. They can’t help but do their nefarious deeds in writing, on tape, they turn on each other, etc. They’re gonna be found out.
The settlement awarded to Dominion was a slap in the face to Fox in comparison to what the testimonies would have reveled to the public if they were given. For the moment Fox seems to have gotten off the preverbal hook but there is another suit out there that is looking to take a much bigger bite out of Fox News. Let's see where this one goes before we make a decisions as to how Fox thinks they have won anything. The anchors that spread countless lies promoting Trump and his agenda will have their day in court and just maybe we'll hear the truth from their own lips, about what a piece of crap Trump really is.
Donald, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write mostly to amplify your thoughtful comment by noting that Dominion’s refusal to settle until, through discovery, it had uncovered the truth, in my view, will bode well for subsequent suits.
How to get all of that information across to the Fox News Watchers is the question. An apology would be nice. An admission of guilt would be even better. But, sadly, the system allows for graft and grifters. Seems like it celebrates them. Sigh.
Louise, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to note, while we all share your frustration, I believe it’s worth noting that the trove of damaging pre-trial discovery will likely have a rippling effect on subsequent suits against Fox, producing results we presently can’t predict.
Lots of luck from what we have seen in past there are men in prison that have done less.Money talks big time. United States of America was……a great place till the greed took over for one Trump.
Esther, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write, first, because I agree that America currently is not “a great place” and, second, because I believe it could be. And though it might sound foolish and utopian and silly, I believe our nation’s destiny rests with our engagement, our energy, our caring, and our work. In the words of a remarkable old American gospel song, “We are the ones that we’ve been waiting for.”
Mindi, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to note my understanding that the settlement precludes any further action by either party. Still, Dominion’s pre-trial damaging discovery, in my view, will prove extraordinarily helpful in subsequent suits against Fox.
Dominion lawyer Justin Nelson said “An apology is about accountability, and today Dominion held Fox accountable,” a Dominion spokeswoman said. “Fox paid a historic settlement and issued a statement acknowledging that the statements about Dominion were false.”
The result is HUGE. The admissions obtained through discovery can be used in many other cases.
Admissions also can be applied to the insurrection. IMHO Fox and friends aided and abetted and gave comfort to the insurrection.
18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
The sanctions issue remains open. Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11 provides that a district court may sanction attorneys or parties who submit pleadings for an improper purpose or that contain frivolous arguments or arguments that have no evidentiary support.
A judge can, if sanctions are proven, make the lawyers and the parties jump down and take a load of water.
Below is the Delaware rule re sanctions for withholding discovery.
Left unanswered, to me at least, is the special master assigned to this case still active or has the agreement shut it down? I’ve heard conflicting reports.
Good question John. Judge Davis did issue an Order on the mornig of Trial authorizing further Special Master research. But, it was difficult to get on the Court's digital case info site yedterday with my trusty Tablet.
in practice sanctions dont happen often, if they were a deterrent there would be fewer frivolous lawsuits, false claims, etc, But perhaps there is a law review article on the question.
In this case, the judge left the record open for development by a special master.
I used orders to show cause why sanctions should not be issued when there were clear violations. Burden of proof is on the lawyers. I'd make them verify the responses under penalty of perjury. The "apology" issued by Fox' lawyers is pro forma. The judge has a lot of discretion. .
Once the special master issues a report, the judge will decide.
In my experience sanctions are unnecessary most of the time because most lawyers are honest and can control their clients. A lawyer has a duty of candor to the tribunal and can be also sanctioned by the bar in egregious situations.
Derek Wessner ; I guess we all saw it coming, but had fun fantasizing how it would have been great, if it was fair and informative to those who are brainwashed, ( and those of us not brainwashed), and now it's unlikely to be otherwise. The dirty money now has an army of zombies who vote, and carry guns designed to kill people in large numbers. That army is being raised for the wealthy tyrants, It does not look good for justice and what we all wish for in the 'American way' of our future.
Even if a settlement/jury verdict had required an admission of guilt by Fox, it likely would have been narrowly tailored to an admission that the accusations against Dominion were false, not a general retraction of the Big Lie. Despite its attorneys' lofty pronouncements, this suit was about compensation for Dominion, not about saving our country from the harm caused caused by the divisive falsehoods relentlessly spewed by Fox and other right wing media.
Katy Tur of MSNBC said the settlement came, in part, due to the threats to both parties posed by a jury trial. For Fox: public exposure of its massive deceit, including the redacted parts of previously published testimony--and the tawdry spectacle of watching Tucker, Laura, Maria, Sean, Rupert and possibly Rudy squirm on the stand. For Dominion: the stark possibility that one or more in the jury pool lied during jury selection, proves to be a Radical Right plant, and pulls off an OJ-your-way-out-of-it jury nullification. But the bottom line seems to be that Dominion decided to take the money and run. True, they didn't "owe" it to us to go through with the trial, but, for me, it's the worst case of an opportunity to have a historical positive impact on a culture squandered by an individual or entity I've ever seen. And the fact that they let Fox off without a demand of public apology, which is usual in such settlements, constitutes a stunning abandonment of the greater good. I'm shocked, dismayed, and not a little angry.
How could Fox admit publicly that they lied with the Smartmatic lawsuit coming right up? Might as well just give Smartmatic the money they want, too...right? Not that I'm excusing or defending Fox--the Murdochs and their bobble-headed talking heads are all scum. But I do get why Fox was adamant on that particular point.
I agree Derek, this group of ppl care for two things money and power...the ppl who support them are literally being f_cked up and down. Sad there are so many dumbass white ppl.
It aint just white people. I've had many a discussion with MAGA latinos. Just like Trump Fox tries to appeal to multiple different groups with conflicting messaging. That way no matter what the watchers view they are "on your side" and the viewer can cherry pick what they want to listen too.
That is what a commercial defamation complaint is all about --- a civil claim for money damages. A civil court case is not a Passion Play although there was plenty of passion & angst expressed in this matter ---admirably handled byTrial Judge Davis.
Agreed, and Judge Davis had no choice but to allow the 'out-of-court' agreement. My disappoint is not with Judge Davis, or even with Dominion, they are a business, and a bird in the hand is always worth two in the bush. It is that IF this had gone to trial Judge Davis could have added "tell the truth" to his finding. My rage is directed at FCC. Judge Davis firmly declared Fox admitted to spreading lies over American airwaves. Shame on FCC and every member of their Board of Directors. Their job is to protect American citizenry from falsehoods reported as truths. Not just to hand out licenses willy-nilly to support the agency.
I take that back. I just looked it up and FCC does license Cable as well as regular broadcasting. Those airwaves belong to the United States of America. Canada and Mexico have absolute control of airwaves in their respective countries also. Admittedly regulations are kind of fuzzy, mainly I think (opinion) so cable can broadcast "adult" programming (a euphemism for pornography - which I don't care about) on the subject of lies, falsehoods they can and should monitor the airwaves. Broadcasting pornography to interested consenting (and paying) adults is one thing, knowingly broadcasting falsehoods to sway elections to a gullible audience likely to believe those lies is something else and can and should be controlled. See rule 76
Agree, money wins, but bringing the truth into the light ultimately serves everyone ....including Fox in the long run, but Murdock paid to keep his viewers in the dark!
Of course he did. Truth is not a friend of Rupert Murdoch, ignorance is king in his world. Why do you think he and his lying news organization got kicked out of Great Britain.
Agree. The admission of lies, especially to Faux's viewers, was the thing I hoped for most. Dominion got what it sought from it's perspective; a mild admission that Faux misinformed and defamed their machines and business with compensation for the same. It's too bad Dominion's calculus couldn't abide a bit smaller settlement in exchange for that admission still being made.
'“Smartmatic now has a bargaining chip, and Fox has shown it is willing to take out its checkbook and write a big check,” said University of Tennessee, Knoxville media law professor Stuart Brotman. “From Fox’s standpoint, now that they realize they can get a successful settlement, they have a basis for a real discussion with Smartmatic.”'
Precedent is a slippery slope. I hope we're not in for an even bigger disappointment. This will be a case in NY too. But Smartmatic is a privately held company in the UK. And the Murdochs are despised in the UK. Hope springs eternal . . .
I don't think it's as much a matter of precedent as it's liability for the 19 or 20 admissions cited by the judge in his Order Granting Summary Judgment. The concept is res judicata, facts don't have to be perpetually relitigated.
Consider all the other people that have been defamed by Fox and its talking heads. Maybe thousands of them.
It’s to do with courts—you don’t have a case or a hearing (opportunity of being heard), unless money valuation can be established. Courts are blunt instrument, 24-hour news cycle and it’s old news. Maybe at this point it’s up to Dominion, to do society a favour and use every available media to display facts, a half mile of billboards in red areas, with messages like “these individuals lied on-air for money,” simple true statements. Dominion got money, chump-change to Fox, as RR stated. Stealth guerrilla marketing is necessary. Handbills for blues to paste to phone poles. Soda cups “free” to street vendors with mug shots and story-statement (if they don’t like it “sue me,” that case is already settled!) Mind you though—their “target audience” doesn’t budge with cackling glee when perceived elites (court winners that MUST be blue, calling liars liars, “Despicable,” eh?) Whole point—stuck-in-rut-Fox-appreciators know it’s lies and LOVE it, “Stick it to them!” So quickly can they change when Trump and ilk become the bums to throw out—now, How to do that, ie alter perceptions to turn on Trump fascists? They will (in order to have fun). The sooner the better.
Whatever Dominion's real motivation was, the threat of Fox having to make multiple public apologies was a hell of a bargaining chip for them to settle.
Freedom of Speech could lead to our Country’s Destruction
FOX News and Dominion Voting Systems agreed to a $787.5 million settlement Tuesday, April 18, 2023. The presiding Judge Eric Davis ruled that it was "crystal" clear that allegations broadcast by Fox News and claiming that Dominion's technology was responsible for fraudulently flipping the election were false. Fox had denied all wrongdoing, saying this lawsuit is an attack on the First Amendment. FOX attorneys said "This settlement reflects FOX’s continued commitment to the highest journalistic standards. "We are hopeful that our decision to resolve this dispute with Dominion amicably, instead of the acrimony of a divisive trial, allows the country to move forward from these issues.”
Seriously?
I’m always reminded of Lincoln’s quote, “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. “
Fox's public statement about "commitment to the highest journalistic standards" is itself a malicious bit of contempt for actual journalistic standards. What a vile propaganda machine for the destruction of our country they are. How we longed to see *ucker Carlson have to say through his fake face of fake "concern" that he is a liar of the highest order of the lowst kind.
Annie, Tucker Carlson and the rest lie because they like doing it. They like being able to pull the wool over the eyes of the viewers for whom they have utter contempt. That whole gang are actors who could not make it on any other stage, so they stay with Fox and blurt out their ridiculous lines as though they are handing down gospel truths when they are whiny white people trying to protect their whiny white community from everyone they are scared of. So, they will lie on into the future, and their viewers will lose any sense of decency they may have once had because they are too weak by now to turn the channel and possibly hear some truths that would be hard for them to stomach, like that their heroes think they are stupid and easily manipulated for the benefit of the rich.
Fox news is comfortable for its viewers. It explains why the world is shitty (Fox's fake narrative of that) and just like in religion people would rather have a wrong answer to why things are the way they are than no answer. My friend has said that Fox always shows proof of what they are saying. Obviously this is cherry picked truth while avoiding the main issues. Always diverting. Ask any MAGA why Trump is going to court and the defense will have nothing to do with Trump. It will be Dems, Hunter Biden, etc.
Well said, Ruth Sheets! And, sad to say, the damage to Fox viewers' perception of the world in which they live is in part self-inflicted, if they depend only on Fox News. There certainly is no dearth of other news sources on radio, television, and the internet. There's no cure for such willful ignorance.
A dose of truth and humility, instead of returned duplicity, WOULD have been welcomed. Rather than Lincoln, to my mind comes "Give them the old Razzle Dazzle", from the musical Chicago.
Since Fox got a slap on the wrist and have to pay pocket change, they have been given carte blanche to continue their lies and deceptions and ramp it up for future elections. The entire cesspool of an organization is traitorous and I don’t doubt they will double down on fomenting another insurrection. They should rot in hell.
FOX has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It is propaganda for the destruction of this country which became legal when the Fairness Doctrine was dumped under Ronald Reagan. Free Speech means that a national television network should be required to present opposing views on content. If that were to happen FOX would soon be out of business. God help us. I don't know. Maybe it's too late.
I don’t like to think it’s too late. It’s never too late to be a thorn in the side of hypocrisy. Fox is not a news organization. It’s an instrument of propaganda against democracy. Free speech without good faith and the fairness doctrine is not journalism. Slant is another thing altogether. When does propaganda in the service of insurrection become a crime? Fox fomented a coup by spreading lies to their audience in service to their own bottom line. It was beyond reckless. Perhaps an apology from such an organization is meaningless. They lack humanity. The next best thing to an acknowledgement of wrongdoing is to extract money from them because that is the only thing that means anything to such people.
You have shown us your golden hammer, Mary Boudreau, for you have hit the nail on the head with your perfect question, "When does propaganda in the service of insurrection become a crime?"
We might even ask its corollary question, "When will blatant, obvious insurrection be prosecuted as the crime it is?" Or when can we abandon the genteel words like "insurrection" or "losing our democracy" and call it treason?
IMHO it's possible to have Fox declared as a criminal enterprise. An enterprise under RICO is defined as any legal or illegal ongoing business or group that is used as a base for criminal activity. Racketeering activity can be defined broadly, and many felonies suffice for liability, if conducted as part of an enterprise and pattern.
I agree that "freedom of speech" could be our downfall. Do you have any suggestions about how to curtail lying without curtailing freedom? Someone suggested that we lower the bar on defamation cases, but I don't know what that would mean.
Canada has freedom of speech but it stops short of hate speech: hate speech is specifically not included in the definition of "freedom". It works for them.
Kim Cooper : I have an idea of "how to curtail lying without curtailing freedom" ; Get money out of speech. Get rid of Citizens United where money is speech. Human to human discussions without huge megaphones that cost lots of money, may be a start.
For one thing, court interpretations of the NY Times v. Sullivan standard are far too strict.
By rights, people like George Soros, Hilary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi should be able to sue Fox and associates for all that they're worth for defamation.
Daniel Solomon ; Very interesting. But will they? These folks do not play fairly! Look at what happened to Paul Pelosi as he slept in his own bed, in his own home! The threats they pose are real. If only they could sue and get some reparations for harm and mental anguish! Also, the many families who lost loved ones to Covid because of anti masking propaganda and quack 'cures' like bleach injections or drinking and Ivermectin. A class action suit for false information : 'alternative facts' ! Who ARE they to get away with playing politics with listener's health? RED states lost the most victims of Covid! RED states have more gun deaths too! That is another one of their pet issues; the misinterpreted second amendment!
It's problematical whether any of the culprits have insurance or assets that can be obtained after a judgment.
Employees who got COVID at work may have workers' compensation benefits depending on state law. Here DeSantis got the legislature to deny coverage to state employees.
And what about the businesses and individuals whom a President of the United States stood at various podiums and lectures using the preeminent bully pulpit to actually bully, threaten and defame, calling them by name calling for their destruction, firing, harm, harassment?! A President of the United States directing hatred and harm at American businesses because HE didn't like their treatment if HIM! His demand for the firing of a life-long career federal employee on the last day before he had reached the necessary time for his planned retirement - and pension!
Pretend King Rump is a sadistic monster who gets minions to do his dirty work, like the wicked witch summoned her flying monkeys.
He has a NY defamation case due for trial next week.
In general if a person hurts someone on purpose can be a crime and/or a civil intentional tort. A president is immune from suit during the term of office.
I agree -- and have been donating to the organization called End Citizens United for quite a while. However, how do we do that? too many powerful people like C.U.
My idea would be to argue that, since we are all granted equal free speech by our constitution (the equal is implied), and money is now speech, that means we should all have equal money too -- therefore the government is obligated to gather up all of the money and distribute it equally to all citizens. That would be a motivation to end C.U. :-)
It's at the polls. We The People have to vote IN a Dem super-majority, who can then do the will of The People, and overturn C.U. And I believe we are at a tipping point; it must be done NOW, before the maga damage is irreversable
I don't want to see the defamation standard lowered. But, it should be that the reporting source has to be news. If it is opinion (Hannity, Carlson, etc...) then it must be advertised as such. The settlement should have, in addition to the fine, stipulated that they have to bill themselves as Fox Entertainment or the lead in to these shows has a disclaimer that (in the words of Carlson's attorney) no rational person should take these statements as anything other than expressed for the purpose of entertainment.
Germany created laws after WW2 banning Holocaust denialism and hate speech as a way to protect democracy. We should adopt similar laws and criminalize attacks on our democracy such as lying about our voting systems being compromised without evidence.
And when can we expect Harvard/Yale to abolish his degree(s) and award him with Mickey Mouse ears? And is he receiving government pay as a military veteran, even while working against the U.S. Constitution? And when he directs his minions to begin construction on his revenge prison at Disney's doorstep, can America begin construction on a wall at the border to Florida? And can all New Yorkers "immigrating" to Florida be required to have a passport? And when DeSantis travels to, say, Texas, can we get him on a plane to Martha's Vineyard from which he will then be required to have a passport and valid approval from Homeland Security to return to U.S. protectorate Floridisneyland and HIS family?
The threat to build a prison next to a place patronized by families with children tells one all they need to know about him and the so-called party of "family values." A prison, presumably filled with murderers, rapists and child abusers built next to a theme park for kids? What a loathsome, disgusting, noxious, nauseating, putrid sack of excrement RDS is.
I'd rather we teach our children about critical thinking, undue influence, control groups, and other analytical tools. Social media has brought about a multi billion $ constant onslaught with the purpose of the opposite. It's become exceedingly difficult, complex, , requires time and thought to weed out all the crapola just to find a few nuggets of facts.
On top of that heap, have you see the recent illiteracy rates? Extracting grandma from the Murdoch Mesmerizing Hour not likely to happen, but if we give the kids a fighting chance, they might not be influenced by her cultish ravings at all.
Thanks, Seajay. I once gave a talk to a room full of young Planned Parenthood advocates about how abortion might become illegal in the future (I could see they didn’t believe me). Afterward, we talked in small groups and one tearful young woman asked how they could know what information on the Internet was true and what was false. None of the young women had a clue. This scared the S$@&T out of me. Still does.
wow. My best friends are College Professor and retired lawyer who still conducts a Constitution course. Their remarks and observations scare the S$@&T out of me too.
I'd like to think some good will come out of all this and put more attention and especially funding to our schools. sigh
Unfortunately, the folks who want to dumb down the public are doing all they can to accomplish that goal by trying to kill public education by passing laws to allow the taxpayers' public education funding to be diverted to private/religious/homeschooling families by using School Vouchers. I know first hand-the NH Republican legislature has been doing just that. A.L.E.C. is behind those efforts. Please read (this link also discusses what else A.L.E.C. is doing.): https://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_%26_Education
Florida legislature just passed and the governor signed a law that gives $8,000 vouchers to every families to use to send their kid to any school of the parent’s choice. Killing public education is a big part of the Repugnican platform.
Yes, the Democratic governor of New York, which once had some of the best public schools in the nation, is now advocating for MORE charter schools, when many of those in existence are folding. They are union free and many teachers eventually migrate to public schools for the pay, but that doesn't keep the state from pouring money into charters.
DeSantis and Devos have gone from mildly irritating right wing to foaming at the mouth, rabid fascists. I believe teachers are at the front of the frantic refugee escape route out.
Au contraire, Devos has never been merely or mildly irritating. She and her brother Eric Prince hold views, and tremendous wealth to effect them, that are - or should be - anathema to American principles. Not "irritating"; dangerous and destructive - deceptive and duplicitous and somewhat secretive.
I am a college, educated, full time working single mom of 2 children who are now in college. I had to join a book club to start reading on a regular basis. I am no longer on Facebook and deleted Twitter when they allowed the former guy back on. There should be social media addiction recovery groups out there.
Dominion could have been an American hero at a time when we really need one, but instead has shown itself to be just another instance of capitalism maximizing shareholder value, regardless of any other considerations.
Bennett, While my reply is not intended as a defense of Dominion’s actions, I wouldn’t dismiss its lawyers who produced a trove of damaging discovery, including text messages, emails, and under-oath testimony. I believe it was Lawrence O’Donnell, who underscored that a trial transcript would have read pretty much the same as what’s already said in the deposition transcripts we actually have. Hence, I don’t imagine we have heard the end of the ripples from the Dominion suit.
Their discoveries, which seem to be orders of magnitude more than the DOJ has produced in its undoubtedly more massive investigations of Jan 6, are immensely important to those of us interested in reality. I fear that those who are disinterested will be unmoved, other than to say that the little they heard about it sounded made up, unproven, no worse than anyone else, ...
As Prof Reich and others have noted, what would have been so much better in a settlement or trial result, even though it still would have fallen in deaf ears in many cases, would have been such things as Fox hosts being required to state on their shows that they lied, and why, and having to be renamed as Fox Opinions or something other than pretending to be News.
I imagine that at least two-thirds of their viewers would be unfazed even by that sort of thing, but I imagine that *some* would have, and our elections run on thin margins.
So, point taken, and I agree that the Dominion lawyers and investigators did us a great service. I regret that the opportunity was not taken to maximize the utilization of the info they obtained.
Bennett, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write, because, while I share your disappointment, I take heart from my understanding that Dominion attorneys refused to settle until, through discovery, they had uncovered the truth. I don’t imagine any of us can predict the potentially significant impact of this pre-trial discovery on subsequent suits against Fox.
If mental illness is some kind of deviation from the norm, then greed in America can't be considered mental illness, nor can violence, predation, corruption, thievery, fraud, treason, sedition, etc. etc. etc. because those appear to be the norm in this nation that increasingly seems to be a laboratory for despotism and depravity; no wonder Pretend King Rump holds court to a chanting crowd "USA! USA! We're No. ! We're No. 1!" Number one in what exactly.....
There is a wonderful story that depicts the consequences of greed... imagine a realm consisting of starving souls, each provided access to a large communal bowl overflowing with nutritious delights..... and each one is provided a spoon with which to access the much desired food.... but the handle end of the spoon extends about 4 feet.... so they will never actually reach their own mouths ..... heaven is when they realize they could actually serve each other!
William, greed is all the things you cite. It is interesting that we stress over and have drug wars over certain drugs but completely ignore greed as the massive addiction it is. Those greedy folks at Fox are beyond addicted as are Beezos, Musk, Trump, and so many on Wall Street. No one needs as much money as those folks have, but they simply can't stop accumulating. There are some rich people who have learned to manage their need to accumulate wealth a bit, but not many and there are always strings attached to whatever giving they do, like naming buildings after themselves. People in Congress should be talking about taxing the rich as interventions to ease them off their drug of choice, greed. Democrats could do that to get things rolling. Associate being super rich or a super-rich-wannabee as being addicted to accumulation, in short, greed. Maybe candidates won't want to be seen as greedy since for Christians, greed is a sin. OK, I know the crazy white nationalist Christians don't see anything they do as sinful, but maybe the ordinary voters will see it differently. It could happen?
Yrs, so true. There are two main dangers for greed:
1. Never feeling you have enough wealth, a true addiction needing always more and never feeling satiated.
2. Those super-rich who feel that only infinite wealth can protect them from the future, e.g. the climate catastrophe. Their wealth has always protected them in the past, and the climate catastrophe will be truly apocalyptic, so they need infinite money to "protect them". We all know, of course, that when supply chains collapse, money will only help for a short time.
You know....the earth wont be able to evolve another sentient species before the sun warms it up enough to start frying all life (not even counting climate change). And if after humanity is gone regular life was the only thing left in our absense until regular life could not survive, its OK. Id consider that 100,000 years of post sentient life a win.
There is something to be said for Ravens. Octopus might have a chance though once the oceans get to hot that could be a problem. That is one smart short lived animal. Well who knows they might adapt. Ravens can at least teach their young. Octopus gift their young with life and then die. Not a lot of teaching going on there.
Makes my stomach turn to hear people cheer as though justice was served and that their reputation will be forever tarnished. It’ll be washed within hrs.
Justin, of course, there was no justice. It was a bunch of rich guys settling a minor scrape with the healing balm of money. Those two corporations did well while the rest of us were bamboozled. The Fox viewers will never know how they have been used but the rest of us will note how truth is being trampled in the dirt.
Yes! Forgotten when the next mass shooting, climate change weather disaster, etc., dominates the news cycle. The Fox News viewers in my household don't give a damn about this lawsuit!
Susan, I suspect because so many of us wanted the day in court to settle some issues related to Fox lying and gaslighting, that is the reason Dominion caved. They had an excellent case, but didn't want to have to spend 6 weeks or so dealing with the crap, then have the chance the jury would give them nothing. When it is 700 million + or a possible nothing, justice is not going to be part of it. Truth again loses a major battle and so do all Americans.
Beyond enough money for security and comfort, the rest is indeed the root of all evil. Those who must have millions or billions are at heart evil, no matter how they try to hide it through self aggrandizing good deeds.
Those good deeds are never enough to make up for how they got the money in the first place. It is only to placate the masses so the revolution doesnt come for them.
Actually, the settlement is about 3/4 of Murdoch's yearly profits only from his US operations. As I explained on LFAA back on March 31, Rupert has survived many defamation & invasion of privacy claims in the UK. When in trouble jettison an underling to the chasing wolves.
However, (there's always a however) the sacrificial Underling in the Dominion case, a producer for Tucker, refused to be the Fall Woman & filed two lawsuits in the weeks before the Settlement. I believe those pending actions have excellent settlement value as Faux News cleans up the scattered debris in the impact radius.
They should be eating crow, but instead a Supreme Court justice and his Fox-loving spouse may very well be eating WITH crow, expensive meals fit for corrupt, amoral fraudsters.
Annie Cross ; The lawsuit or , at least impeachment in the eye of the public, of Clarence Thomas, may give some satisfaction. One would think there might be SOME consequences for the obvious lack of integrity and breaking of all ethics rules?
Thomas won't be impeached for obvious reasons, and Thomas won't resign.Like George Santos who won't resign, the shameful and shameless spit in the face of decency and honor.
No they cannot; blinding light can be excruciating. Note well, Chapter 11 is NOT available to Faux News like Alex Jones who filed for bankruptcy protection claiming $1 Billion to 10 Billion in liabilities after a 965 Million Trial Verdict in favor of multiple Sandy Hook Plaintiffs who proved very painful personal torts -- painfully at trial.
I love Robert's doodles but tonite's effoft with Sandy Hook on top does not capture the realities of litigation to verdict & grim collection battles afterwards.
I see no reason why Fox News could not avail itself of Chapter 11 if it saw the need. I suspect you think that a corporation must be insolvent to file for Chapter 11, but that is not the law.
I don't however see any reason why Fox will need bankruptcy court protection. Judgments against them would have to be very, very large before that would come into play.
Wish I coulda been a fly on that settlement discussion room wall. Yes, Dominion could have done the entire country a huge favor by mandating public confessions and apologies. (Were they simply more concerned for their company's reputation over helping save our democracy?) They should have at least been awarded the original amount they demanded. They had so much evidence in their favor! They had so much leverage!! WTH happened in there?? It seems they somehow just caved. And why?
I wonder if Dominion was sickened by the "America" that revealed itself through this whole Rump era and just chose to take the money and be done with it. I wish they would distribute a chunk of that money to the Secretaries of State, like Jocelyn Benson of Michigan, who showed tremendous courage and integrity through the whole election process while under relentless attack.
MM, here's the deal. With the settlement, FNC MUST pay the 787M. With a guilty verdict, no matter the award, there would follow appeals, then more appeals, and, just like trump has done his entire miserable life, FNC money would outlast Dominion money, and the case would wither away. This is REAL money, for a company valued at around 80M. And, it's being made public, which is quite unusual for a settlement deal. And, it's just the beginning for FNC. More fun to follow.
I don’t understand why they caved. Usually if it looks like the plaintiff is winning or has a very strong case, which they did, then the defendant will try to make a deal. But this looks like Fox lawyers made an offer and they just snapped it up. I doubt they even countered. Maybe the jury sat down and they were all wearing MAGA hats.
Dominion had established that Fox's statements about Dominion were false. They would still have had to prove the statements were made with "actual malice." That's a very tough legal standard, and Dominion cannot be faulted for taking $787MM rather than roll the dice and maybe come away with nothing from the jury.
Predictable, but let's look on the bright side and hope that Smartmatic's lawyers are as much interested in democracy as they are in their 33% - breath holding optional.
Even if they also cop out, however, the seeping damage to FOX is irreversible, and any future lies will be immediately scrutinized. While it would have been ideal if FOX had been forced to apologize, their viewers would have migrated anyway and remain a danger. Whack-a-mole.
Perhaps the general climate of greed will ultimately be in our favor: the settlement was big enough that it might encourage others they lie about to try for some money too.
Well said, Robert. A truly depressing day for American democracy and accountability. The judge didn't cover himself in glory either - praising the high quality of 'lawyering' that had gone on to achieve this outcome! In my view, Dominion should, at the very least, have waited this out for a few days, as Fox was being damaged more with every passing hour. Until Fox has to broadcast to its listeners that it intentionally misled them, and until key presenters are forced to make the same acknowledgement, the festering sore on American 'journalism', remains. There are other lawsuits in the pipeline, not least the $2.7b claim from Smartmatic but yesterday's decision gives me no hope that these claims will end in anything more than substantial payouts to the claimants while Fox News sails blithely on, firing shells at the democratic infrastructures that underpin and guarantee the safety of the USA. So, surely it's now time to look at other solutions - like a law which says TV stations legally have to show both sides of the argument in cases of political debate, (the Reagan-era repealed Fairness Doctrine), rather than just the one side - which was, of course, Murdoch's original triumph over American journalistic standards and the original sin in all of this disastrous and dangerous mess.
Sad as it is, it’s exactly what I expected would happen. Part of the settlement SHOULD have been an admission of guilt by everyone who pushed the big lie and it should have taken place live on air.
Derek, My understanding was that the delay in settling mostly was due to controversy over how an apology/“admission of guilt” would be framed. While I expect we’ll never know precisely why Dominion caved, we can derive some comfort from the fact that we have a trove of damaging pre-trial discovery documentation. We just have to figure out how best to put it to use.
We do know why the two (2) Fox Defendants settled after Judge Davis' case controlling PRE- trial ruling that 19 separate Fox satements were false as matter of law of the case.
After Judge Davis Pre-Trial rulings (plural), the Plaintiff, Dominion, was able to focus on the very difficult to reach legal standard of NY Times vs Sullivan, 'actual malice' in knowingly making 19 false false statements while maliciously hiding the truth from their captured viewers.
The details compelling Fox's settlement were discussed over at LFAA on March 31 through April 1, 2023 although Judge Davis' day-of-Trial rulings helped considerably to forge the largest dollar settlement of a commercial defamation case in the history of the United States.
We forget that Dominion is not our superhero. They never signed up for that. We assigned that. That’s our habit. “THEY will save democracy for us!” Yet it only was about business - the bottom line. Working out the word-salad dripping with weak sauce explanation to a nation hoping for justice must have been the delay. We all know this is pocket change for fox and won’t alter a damn thing. That’s up to us.
You absolutely nailed it, MLRGRM! If we want to preserve democracy, we must do the work ourselves. Dominion is a business trying to save itself and its reputation, not a caped superhero. I'm impressed they hung in as long as they did, given the Murdochs' reputation for anything-goes behind-the-scenes dirty tricks during lawsuits. That said, I'm disappointed. I was hoping to see blood in the water, metaphorically speaking.
The "blood in the water" wtll not be Tucker's Producer who was set up to bleed profusely; her two (2) lawsuits against Fox & Fellow Travelers were one of the many reasons that the case collapsed into a 787.5 milion dollar settlement with the Jury seated.
And that's great news! So refreshing to see the fall-guy - or in this case, fall-gal, prevail over the corporate BlackHats. No, I was hoping to see some Murdoch or Pucker Carlson blood in the water.
YES! Thank you. I just spent an hour on another site saying exactly what Terry and MLRGRM said (and you both said it better than I did, with fewer words!)
Well, now we know how Fox plans to recoup costs: Check My Ads has reported that Media Matters says they may plan to increase their cable fees:
"As our friends over at Media Matters have highlighted, Fox is likely negotiating higher cable box fees with Charter Spectrum, Comcast Xfinity, and COX right now to prop up Fox News — despite its massive advertising (and, now, legal) losses."
Ironic that the Fox Cult is being asked to pay for Fox's lies. Come to think of it, many other cable subscribers often complain bitterly that they don't want to pay for Fox in their cable package. Capitalism always wins . . .
Their attorney fees were paid by?
Good question, Sharon! I don't know. Do you? One hopes Fox got stuck with all attorneys' fees
No, we didn't "forget", not for one second. We were just hopeful. The damage Murdoch, Fox and Co. have and will continue to do on our democracy is immense, possibly insurmountable, barring a scenario in which they have to admit their many lies TO THEIR AUDIENCE.
Well, they didn't have to become complicit, though, did they? In this country run by corporations, we may need some bravery from at least a handful of them.
In a David worth Goliath situation a poor client will frequently take a settlement with non disclosure and a big payout instead of fighting the case out through and through. If there is anything to be learned from Robert Reichs The System Who rigged it and how we fix it, is thay we have to fix the issues. Corporations and the rich will only serve their own self interest and only coincidentally our own.
How are they complicit? It's not Dominion's job to protect our democracy in the court of law. The case was a defamation case and 100% about Dominion protecting their company from the outrageous false claims made by Fox News' bobbing heads. That's our job as citizens and our elected officials.
Look at the mess happening in the Senate right now with Dianne Feinstein, who should have retired a decade ago. Right now Biden can't get any of his picks for federal courts done due to the ego of an 89 year old senator. That's a huge problem for the Democrats and the Republicans are chomping at the bit here and rooting for Feinstein to drag this out for as long as possible.
Yes Jeff. And I am still angry with RBG for doing the SAME DAMN THING which got us a right wing Supreme Court to the degree that it will be years before that can be reversed. Obama and Biden tried to convince her to retire but she refused. So now we have this.
Dominion "protects our democracy" through well-functioning and accurate electronic voting. I guess they thought that's all they owed us . . .
Bryan, While I appreciate the clarifications, in a suit I had imagined might have irreparably disgraced Fox, accepting that money is accountability is a tough pill to swallow. Hence, I take heart from the trove of damaging pre-trial discovery, including text messages, emails, and under-oath testimony we actually have.
I agree Barbara Jo, Smartmatic will benefit greatly in their 2.7 Billion dollar defamation lawsuit. Fox's acknowledgement of Judge Davis' legal findings of 19 Lies have lasting value under a legal doctrine called 'res judicata', the thing has already been decided or as an admission against interest.
I will monitor SMARTMATIC's pre-trial motions. The Main Event is approaching.
Bryan, Thank you for writing. I imagine everyone here is interested in hearing from our fellow subscriber attorneys.
Retired Attorney here after 30 years of NorCal state & Federal litigation & trials. The Smartmatic USA v Fox case is venued in New York not Delaware. Smartmatic USA has already prevailed on an early appeal in that case 5-0. Buckle up.
Judge Davis's pretrial findings are not binding in any other lawsuit. The suit was settled pretrial, and so there is no judgment that would be res judicata of anything. One of Fox's reasons for settling was certainly to avoid a judgment in Judge Davis's court that could potentially be res judicata against Fox in another case.
Irreparable disgrace should have already registered, IF truth and facts were what mattered. Clearly those for whom this likens to religion do NOT want to see the truth, they like the lies and are more than willing to pay for them, vote for them, and as we know, post Jan 6, go to battle for them.
A E F, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to say, while I agree with you, I also believe there exists a swath of indoctrinated people fed only on partisan information and opinion that confirm their own bias, who are not entirely unreachable.
Barbara, the problem is the people who need to hear about the' trove of pre-trial discovery' will never hear about it. But then again they probably would not have believed it anyway.
Sadly true, Rolyac.
Rolyac, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to say, while you could be right, part of my work relies on my conviction that there exists a swath of indoctrinated people fed only on partisan information and opinion that confirm their own bias, who are not entirely unreachable.
Its meaningless when it becomes one money grubbing corporation sucking off another one. The McDonalds hot coffee burned crotch settlement had a much more profound and useful effect on how McDonalds did business than this did. It doesnt change a thing. Maybe the little news like Newsmax and OAN will think twice? Again so what there viewership is tiny compared to Fox.
I think that Dominion is still suing Newsmax and OAN, along with Rudy and Sidney and several others (I could be wrong on details, but there are still other suits). Fox was the big fish, but not the only fish.
Bill, As I have posted elsewhere, in light of the trove of damaging pre-trial discovery we actually have, I don’t imagine we have heard the end of the ripples from the Dominion v. Fox complaint.
Agreed with so much discovery already and also evidence tampering this isnt over. Lets see what was inadmissible this time will be admissible for smartmatic.
I think "ripples" is a good description of the effect of these lawsuits on right wing media and their viewers. The Fox News/Newsmax viewers in my household don't give a damn about this stuff. Lawyers will make lots of money, and progressives will feel vindicated in our belief concerning right wing media, but that's about it. Depressing!
Tim, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to say, while your assessment, admittedly, stemming from direct experience, might be accurate, a part of my work relies on my conviction that there exists a swath of indoctrinated people fed only on partisan information and opinion that confirm their own bias, who are not entirely unreachable.
I also comment that Dominion has had a successful team of lawyers and staff working on this and I will guess that will continue. A Team like that breeds success.
Dave, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write because I, too, believe that due to the Dominion team’s exemplary litigation, subsequent suits against Fox could produce even more powerful results.
This settlement is no doubt more “just business”. We do not in fact know what Dominion owners really think or believe about politics. However, we do know they don’t want anyone disparaging their voting machines while their doing it.
Murdoch clearly does have an agenda and knows how to put pressure on people, both now and in the future, and he has the money to do it. I would imagine that the “real” deal was hammered out in private.
G.P., I think you said it well: ‘....the “real” deal was hammered out in private’. It was apparent that Murdoch was prepared to risk the entire $1.6 Bn, absent a “better solution” given the fact that Fox let the trial progress right up to finishing jury selection. The difference between $800 M and the sum named in the original suit left a lot of loose change on (under) the table. Are there two or three Dominion executives hypothetically in a position to affect Dominion’s decision to settle for the $600 M? And how would they react to a sub rosa offer of a couple hundred (tax free) million bucks each, deposited in an off shore account for their “special attention to the matter”? I’ve seen this kind of crap many times in corporations I’ve worked for. The people at the top are frequently sociopaths and will do anything for personal gain. I have very little faith in capitalism, and increasingly, in our judicial system.
I wonder how much Judge Davis had to do with it. He can't have wanted such a public trial for weeks.
I agree. The troves of Fox/hosts lies will come forward, some have already, hopefully these files, emails etc. will show the American people, including Fox regular watchers that Fox lied for many reasons. An on-air admission of guilt by each Host would be lovely. As, the regular watchers of Fox believe Dominion voting machines changed votes.
Kathryn, Thank you for writing. While I don’t expect any live admissions of guilt, I think we can take heart from knowing that a trial transcript would read pretty much the same as the pre-trial production—text messages, emails, and under-oath testimony—we actually have.
Agree. But it would be nice. Being hopeful. But not going to happen, lol
I think with what we can do and find these days we’ll out these dementors. All of them. They can’t help but do their nefarious deeds in writing, on tape, they turn on each other, etc. They’re gonna be found out.
The settlement awarded to Dominion was a slap in the face to Fox in comparison to what the testimonies would have reveled to the public if they were given. For the moment Fox seems to have gotten off the preverbal hook but there is another suit out there that is looking to take a much bigger bite out of Fox News. Let's see where this one goes before we make a decisions as to how Fox thinks they have won anything. The anchors that spread countless lies promoting Trump and his agenda will have their day in court and just maybe we'll hear the truth from their own lips, about what a piece of crap Trump really is.
I will not rest until Fox gets sued for Jan 6, Covid, and election interference from Rupert’s friend Putin
Mindi--By the way I love that name. The way our judicial system works you had better have a lot of really good coffee on hand.
Mindi--I'm the original Mork from Ork, be careful when you handle those eggs.
Donald, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write mostly to amplify your thoughtful comment by noting that Dominion’s refusal to settle until, through discovery, it had uncovered the truth, in my view, will bode well for subsequent suits.
How to get all of that information across to the Fox News Watchers is the question. An apology would be nice. An admission of guilt would be even better. But, sadly, the system allows for graft and grifters. Seems like it celebrates them. Sigh.
Louise, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to note, while we all share your frustration, I believe it’s worth noting that the trove of damaging pre-trial discovery will likely have a rippling effect on subsequent suits against Fox, producing results we presently can’t predict.
Lots of luck from what we have seen in past there are men in prison that have done less.Money talks big time. United States of America was……a great place till the greed took over for one Trump.
Esther, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write, first, because I agree that America currently is not “a great place” and, second, because I believe it could be. And though it might sound foolish and utopian and silly, I believe our nation’s destiny rests with our engagement, our energy, our caring, and our work. In the words of a remarkable old American gospel song, “We are the ones that we’ve been waiting for.”
Are you listening DOJ?
Maybe Dominion should do a data dump and give it to The Times, MSNBC, or CNN
Mindi, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to note my understanding that the settlement precludes any further action by either party. Still, Dominion’s pre-trial damaging discovery, in my view, will prove extraordinarily helpful in subsequent suits against Fox.
Barbara, that is helpful.
Dorothy, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write to thank you for your affirming response.
Dominion lawyer Justin Nelson said “An apology is about accountability, and today Dominion held Fox accountable,” a Dominion spokeswoman said. “Fox paid a historic settlement and issued a statement acknowledging that the statements about Dominion were false.”
The result is HUGE. The admissions obtained through discovery can be used in many other cases.
Admissions also can be applied to the insurrection. IMHO Fox and friends aided and abetted and gave comfort to the insurrection.
18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)
The sanctions issue remains open. Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11 provides that a district court may sanction attorneys or parties who submit pleadings for an improper purpose or that contain frivolous arguments or arguments that have no evidentiary support.
A judge can, if sanctions are proven, make the lawyers and the parties jump down and take a load of water.
Below is the Delaware rule re sanctions for withholding discovery.
https://casetext.com/rule/delaware-court-rules/rules-of-civil-procedure-for-the-superior-court-of-the-state-of-delaware/depositions-and-discoery/rule-37-failure-to-make-discovery-sanctions#:~:text=Rule%2037%20%2D%20Failure%20to%20make%20discovery%3A%20Sanctions%20(a),%3A%20(1)%20Appropriate%20court.
Left unanswered, to me at least, is the special master assigned to this case still active or has the agreement shut it down? I’ve heard conflicting reports.
Good question John. Judge Davis did issue an Order on the mornig of Trial authorizing further Special Master research. But, it was difficult to get on the Court's digital case info site yedterday with my trusty Tablet.
in practice sanctions dont happen often, if they were a deterrent there would be fewer frivolous lawsuits, false claims, etc, But perhaps there is a law review article on the question.
In this case, the judge left the record open for development by a special master.
I used orders to show cause why sanctions should not be issued when there were clear violations. Burden of proof is on the lawyers. I'd make them verify the responses under penalty of perjury. The "apology" issued by Fox' lawyers is pro forma. The judge has a lot of discretion. .
Once the special master issues a report, the judge will decide.
In my experience sanctions are unnecessary most of the time because most lawyers are honest and can control their clients. A lawyer has a duty of candor to the tribunal and can be also sanctioned by the bar in egregious situations.
most lawyers are honest? wow.
Thank you Daniel for the info that the judge left the record open for development by a special master. We all need to keep a close eye on this.
Yes, that is correct. There are bad apples - but they are a small minority.
The old saying is that everybody hates lawyers - until they need one themselves.
Derek Wessner ; I guess we all saw it coming, but had fun fantasizing how it would have been great, if it was fair and informative to those who are brainwashed, ( and those of us not brainwashed), and now it's unlikely to be otherwise. The dirty money now has an army of zombies who vote, and carry guns designed to kill people in large numbers. That army is being raised for the wealthy tyrants, It does not look good for justice and what we all wish for in the 'American way' of our future.
Sad, sad, sad, and true!
That's what so many of us hoped.
Even if a settlement/jury verdict had required an admission of guilt by Fox, it likely would have been narrowly tailored to an admission that the accusations against Dominion were false, not a general retraction of the Big Lie. Despite its attorneys' lofty pronouncements, this suit was about compensation for Dominion, not about saving our country from the harm caused caused by the divisive falsehoods relentlessly spewed by Fox and other right wing media.
Katy Tur of MSNBC said the settlement came, in part, due to the threats to both parties posed by a jury trial. For Fox: public exposure of its massive deceit, including the redacted parts of previously published testimony--and the tawdry spectacle of watching Tucker, Laura, Maria, Sean, Rupert and possibly Rudy squirm on the stand. For Dominion: the stark possibility that one or more in the jury pool lied during jury selection, proves to be a Radical Right plant, and pulls off an OJ-your-way-out-of-it jury nullification. But the bottom line seems to be that Dominion decided to take the money and run. True, they didn't "owe" it to us to go through with the trial, but, for me, it's the worst case of an opportunity to have a historical positive impact on a culture squandered by an individual or entity I've ever seen. And the fact that they let Fox off without a demand of public apology, which is usual in such settlements, constitutes a stunning abandonment of the greater good. I'm shocked, dismayed, and not a little angry.
How could Fox admit publicly that they lied with the Smartmatic lawsuit coming right up? Might as well just give Smartmatic the money they want, too...right? Not that I'm excusing or defending Fox--the Murdochs and their bobble-headed talking heads are all scum. But I do get why Fox was adamant on that particular point.
Yeah, you make a good point! Thanks!
I agree Derek, this group of ppl care for two things money and power...the ppl who support them are literally being f_cked up and down. Sad there are so many dumbass white ppl.
It aint just white people. I've had many a discussion with MAGA latinos. Just like Trump Fox tries to appeal to multiple different groups with conflicting messaging. That way no matter what the watchers view they are "on your side" and the viewer can cherry pick what they want to listen too.
Yes, but that wasn't in Fox best interest. Money wins!
That is what a commercial defamation complaint is all about --- a civil claim for money damages. A civil court case is not a Passion Play although there was plenty of passion & angst expressed in this matter ---admirably handled byTrial Judge Davis.
Makes sense. I think we were hoping to much that something else would come out of it.
Agreed, and Judge Davis had no choice but to allow the 'out-of-court' agreement. My disappoint is not with Judge Davis, or even with Dominion, they are a business, and a bird in the hand is always worth two in the bush. It is that IF this had gone to trial Judge Davis could have added "tell the truth" to his finding. My rage is directed at FCC. Judge Davis firmly declared Fox admitted to spreading lies over American airwaves. Shame on FCC and every member of their Board of Directors. Their job is to protect American citizenry from falsehoods reported as truths. Not just to hand out licenses willy-nilly to support the agency.
Very interesting comment Faye to check in with the Licensor. Thank you.
The FCC has no say or control over cable news networks and Fox is cable.
Thank you for that information. Which agency licenses cable?
I take that back. I just looked it up and FCC does license Cable as well as regular broadcasting. Those airwaves belong to the United States of America. Canada and Mexico have absolute control of airwaves in their respective countries also. Admittedly regulations are kind of fuzzy, mainly I think (opinion) so cable can broadcast "adult" programming (a euphemism for pornography - which I don't care about) on the subject of lies, falsehoods they can and should monitor the airwaves. Broadcasting pornography to interested consenting (and paying) adults is one thing, knowingly broadcasting falsehoods to sway elections to a gullible audience likely to believe those lies is something else and can and should be controlled. See rule 76
Agree, money wins, but bringing the truth into the light ultimately serves everyone ....including Fox in the long run, but Murdock paid to keep his viewers in the dark!
Of course he did. Truth is not a friend of Rupert Murdoch, ignorance is king in his world. Why do you think he and his lying news organization got kicked out of Great Britain.
Another egregious example of "purchasing" a right
and abnegating responsibility/accountability to those who are being misled!!!
Thanks dear Derek for Your the kernel of the truth ✓
- Fox News won. Dominion won. The rest of us lost:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/fox-news-won-dominion-won-the-rest-of-us-lost/ar-AA1a4h8A
- ‘No They Didn’t!’ CNN’s Alisyn Camerota Shuts Down Colleagues Who Reported Fox News Admitted They Lied:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/no-they-didn-t-cnn-s-alisyn-camerota-shuts-down-colleagues-who-reported-fox-news-admitted-they-lied/ar-AA1a1RM0
- TAPPER: "ONE OF THE UGLIEST MOMENTS IN THE HISTORY OF JOURNALISM:
https://youtu.be/ceQhSWJ5O_A
Agree. The admission of lies, especially to Faux's viewers, was the thing I hoped for most. Dominion got what it sought from it's perspective; a mild admission that Faux misinformed and defamed their machines and business with compensation for the same. It's too bad Dominion's calculus couldn't abide a bit smaller settlement in exchange for that admission still being made.
'“Smartmatic now has a bargaining chip, and Fox has shown it is willing to take out its checkbook and write a big check,” said University of Tennessee, Knoxville media law professor Stuart Brotman. “From Fox’s standpoint, now that they realize they can get a successful settlement, they have a basis for a real discussion with Smartmatic.”'
<https://www.reuters.com/legal/fox-resolves-dominion-case-bigger-election-defamation-lawsuit-looms-2023-04-19/>
Precedent is a slippery slope. I hope we're not in for an even bigger disappointment. This will be a case in NY too. But Smartmatic is a privately held company in the UK. And the Murdochs are despised in the UK. Hope springs eternal . . .
I don't think it's as much a matter of precedent as it's liability for the 19 or 20 admissions cited by the judge in his Order Granting Summary Judgment. The concept is res judicata, facts don't have to be perpetually relitigated.
Consider all the other people that have been defamed by Fox and its talking heads. Maybe thousands of them.
It’s to do with courts—you don’t have a case or a hearing (opportunity of being heard), unless money valuation can be established. Courts are blunt instrument, 24-hour news cycle and it’s old news. Maybe at this point it’s up to Dominion, to do society a favour and use every available media to display facts, a half mile of billboards in red areas, with messages like “these individuals lied on-air for money,” simple true statements. Dominion got money, chump-change to Fox, as RR stated. Stealth guerrilla marketing is necessary. Handbills for blues to paste to phone poles. Soda cups “free” to street vendors with mug shots and story-statement (if they don’t like it “sue me,” that case is already settled!) Mind you though—their “target audience” doesn’t budge with cackling glee when perceived elites (court winners that MUST be blue, calling liars liars, “Despicable,” eh?) Whole point—stuck-in-rut-Fox-appreciators know it’s lies and LOVE it, “Stick it to them!” So quickly can they change when Trump and ilk become the bums to throw out—now, How to do that, ie alter perceptions to turn on Trump fascists? They will (in order to have fun). The sooner the better.
Derek. Exactly!
Derek, you're under the delusion that corporations like Dominion and their attorneys care about something other than money.
Whatever Dominion's real motivation was, the threat of Fox having to make multiple public apologies was a hell of a bargaining chip for them to settle.
Freedom of Speech could lead to our Country’s Destruction
FOX News and Dominion Voting Systems agreed to a $787.5 million settlement Tuesday, April 18, 2023. The presiding Judge Eric Davis ruled that it was "crystal" clear that allegations broadcast by Fox News and claiming that Dominion's technology was responsible for fraudulently flipping the election were false. Fox had denied all wrongdoing, saying this lawsuit is an attack on the First Amendment. FOX attorneys said "This settlement reflects FOX’s continued commitment to the highest journalistic standards. "We are hopeful that our decision to resolve this dispute with Dominion amicably, instead of the acrimony of a divisive trial, allows the country to move forward from these issues.”
Seriously?
I’m always reminded of Lincoln’s quote, “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. “
Fox's public statement about "commitment to the highest journalistic standards" is itself a malicious bit of contempt for actual journalistic standards. What a vile propaganda machine for the destruction of our country they are. How we longed to see *ucker Carlson have to say through his fake face of fake "concern" that he is a liar of the highest order of the lowst kind.
Annie, Tucker Carlson and the rest lie because they like doing it. They like being able to pull the wool over the eyes of the viewers for whom they have utter contempt. That whole gang are actors who could not make it on any other stage, so they stay with Fox and blurt out their ridiculous lines as though they are handing down gospel truths when they are whiny white people trying to protect their whiny white community from everyone they are scared of. So, they will lie on into the future, and their viewers will lose any sense of decency they may have once had because they are too weak by now to turn the channel and possibly hear some truths that would be hard for them to stomach, like that their heroes think they are stupid and easily manipulated for the benefit of the rich.
Fox news is comfortable for its viewers. It explains why the world is shitty (Fox's fake narrative of that) and just like in religion people would rather have a wrong answer to why things are the way they are than no answer. My friend has said that Fox always shows proof of what they are saying. Obviously this is cherry picked truth while avoiding the main issues. Always diverting. Ask any MAGA why Trump is going to court and the defense will have nothing to do with Trump. It will be Dems, Hunter Biden, etc.
Way to go Ruth! I think you are 100% right! They are all rich so $ is not an issue!
Well said, Ruth Sheets! And, sad to say, the damage to Fox viewers' perception of the world in which they live is in part self-inflicted, if they depend only on Fox News. There certainly is no dearth of other news sources on radio, television, and the internet. There's no cure for such willful ignorance.
A dose of truth and humility, instead of returned duplicity, WOULD have been welcomed. Rather than Lincoln, to my mind comes "Give them the old Razzle Dazzle", from the musical Chicago.
To me, more Charles Durning doing "The Sidestep" in Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.
Since Fox got a slap on the wrist and have to pay pocket change, they have been given carte blanche to continue their lies and deceptions and ramp it up for future elections. The entire cesspool of an organization is traitorous and I don’t doubt they will double down on fomenting another insurrection. They should rot in hell.
Absolute , right on characterizations of the slimy mob called Fox News
Which makes it CLEAR, that, regardless of Dominion's statements, this was only about money. Despicable.
Well-said!
FOX has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It is propaganda for the destruction of this country which became legal when the Fairness Doctrine was dumped under Ronald Reagan. Free Speech means that a national television network should be required to present opposing views on content. If that were to happen FOX would soon be out of business. God help us. I don't know. Maybe it's too late.
I don’t like to think it’s too late. It’s never too late to be a thorn in the side of hypocrisy. Fox is not a news organization. It’s an instrument of propaganda against democracy. Free speech without good faith and the fairness doctrine is not journalism. Slant is another thing altogether. When does propaganda in the service of insurrection become a crime? Fox fomented a coup by spreading lies to their audience in service to their own bottom line. It was beyond reckless. Perhaps an apology from such an organization is meaningless. They lack humanity. The next best thing to an acknowledgement of wrongdoing is to extract money from them because that is the only thing that means anything to such people.
You have shown us your golden hammer, Mary Boudreau, for you have hit the nail on the head with your perfect question, "When does propaganda in the service of insurrection become a crime?"
We might even ask its corollary question, "When will blatant, obvious insurrection be prosecuted as the crime it is?" Or when can we abandon the genteel words like "insurrection" or "losing our democracy" and call it treason?
IMHO it's possible to have Fox declared as a criminal enterprise. An enterprise under RICO is defined as any legal or illegal ongoing business or group that is used as a base for criminal activity. Racketeering activity can be defined broadly, and many felonies suffice for liability, if conducted as part of an enterprise and pattern.
In some states, defamation is a crime.
Never too late, but we are in for rough times ahead!
I agree that "freedom of speech" could be our downfall. Do you have any suggestions about how to curtail lying without curtailing freedom? Someone suggested that we lower the bar on defamation cases, but I don't know what that would mean.
Canada has freedom of speech but it stops short of hate speech: hate speech is specifically not included in the definition of "freedom". It works for them.
Kim Cooper : I have an idea of "how to curtail lying without curtailing freedom" ; Get money out of speech. Get rid of Citizens United where money is speech. Human to human discussions without huge megaphones that cost lots of money, may be a start.
For one thing, court interpretations of the NY Times v. Sullivan standard are far too strict.
By rights, people like George Soros, Hilary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi should be able to sue Fox and associates for all that they're worth for defamation.
Daniel Solomon ; Very interesting. But will they? These folks do not play fairly! Look at what happened to Paul Pelosi as he slept in his own bed, in his own home! The threats they pose are real. If only they could sue and get some reparations for harm and mental anguish! Also, the many families who lost loved ones to Covid because of anti masking propaganda and quack 'cures' like bleach injections or drinking and Ivermectin. A class action suit for false information : 'alternative facts' ! Who ARE they to get away with playing politics with listener's health? RED states lost the most victims of Covid! RED states have more gun deaths too! That is another one of their pet issues; the misinterpreted second amendment!
I don't think so, Opens themselves up for discovery.
The person who attacked Pelosi's husband ins probably judgment proof. No way to collect even if he gets a judgment.
In order to prevail have to prove liability first, then damages. If victims can prove that anti-vaxers are liable, lawyers will take the cases on a contingency basis. No recovery, no fee. May have to pay costs. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/02/fighting-the-anti-vax-movement-with-lawsuits/385130/
It's problematical whether any of the culprits have insurance or assets that can be obtained after a judgment.
Employees who got COVID at work may have workers' compensation benefits depending on state law. Here DeSantis got the legislature to deny coverage to state employees.
Daniel Solomon ; I can't believe that some actually vote for DeSantis. That shows how uninformed they voters are.
And what about the businesses and individuals whom a President of the United States stood at various podiums and lectures using the preeminent bully pulpit to actually bully, threaten and defame, calling them by name calling for their destruction, firing, harm, harassment?! A President of the United States directing hatred and harm at American businesses because HE didn't like their treatment if HIM! His demand for the firing of a life-long career federal employee on the last day before he had reached the necessary time for his planned retirement - and pension!
Pretend King Rump is a sadistic monster who gets minions to do his dirty work, like the wicked witch summoned her flying monkeys.
He has a NY defamation case due for trial next week.
In general if a person hurts someone on purpose can be a crime and/or a civil intentional tort. A president is immune from suit during the term of office.
Daniel Solomom ; That should be changed. That and the Supreme Court with no ethics standards or oversight.
I agree -- and have been donating to the organization called End Citizens United for quite a while. However, how do we do that? too many powerful people like C.U.
My idea would be to argue that, since we are all granted equal free speech by our constitution (the equal is implied), and money is now speech, that means we should all have equal money too -- therefore the government is obligated to gather up all of the money and distribute it equally to all citizens. That would be a motivation to end C.U. :-)
It's at the polls. We The People have to vote IN a Dem super-majority, who can then do the will of The People, and overturn C.U. And I believe we are at a tipping point; it must be done NOW, before the maga damage is irreversable
I don't want to see the defamation standard lowered. But, it should be that the reporting source has to be news. If it is opinion (Hannity, Carlson, etc...) then it must be advertised as such. The settlement should have, in addition to the fine, stipulated that they have to bill themselves as Fox Entertainment or the lead in to these shows has a disclaimer that (in the words of Carlson's attorney) no rational person should take these statements as anything other than expressed for the purpose of entertainment.
Subject: Who's counting?
Dominion, “Money is accountability”.
I thought money was accounting.
No accountability. That’s why it fluctuates so much.
https://twitter.com/GaryGevisser/status/1648503624849584128?s=20
I don't believe any other country has interpreted Freedom of Speech quite as loosely as we have.
Britains low bar for Defamation has actually only benefited the Rich amd squashed personal dissent.
Would it be possible to come up with a level that is neither too low nor too high?
Germany created laws after WW2 banning Holocaust denialism and hate speech as a way to protect democracy. We should adopt similar laws and criminalize attacks on our democracy such as lying about our voting systems being compromised without evidence.
Stay tuned in Florida. The governor is working on curtailing/abolishing the First Amendment.
And when can we expect Harvard/Yale to abolish his degree(s) and award him with Mickey Mouse ears? And is he receiving government pay as a military veteran, even while working against the U.S. Constitution? And when he directs his minions to begin construction on his revenge prison at Disney's doorstep, can America begin construction on a wall at the border to Florida? And can all New Yorkers "immigrating" to Florida be required to have a passport? And when DeSantis travels to, say, Texas, can we get him on a plane to Martha's Vineyard from which he will then be required to have a passport and valid approval from Homeland Security to return to U.S. protectorate Floridisneyland and HIS family?
The threat to build a prison next to a place patronized by families with children tells one all they need to know about him and the so-called party of "family values." A prison, presumably filled with murderers, rapists and child abusers built next to a theme park for kids? What a loathsome, disgusting, noxious, nauseating, putrid sack of excrement RDS is.
Wouldn’t it be great if the so called news programming would give facts instead of disinformation. It’s easy to fact check but hardly anyone does.
I'd rather we teach our children about critical thinking, undue influence, control groups, and other analytical tools. Social media has brought about a multi billion $ constant onslaught with the purpose of the opposite. It's become exceedingly difficult, complex, , requires time and thought to weed out all the crapola just to find a few nuggets of facts.
On top of that heap, have you see the recent illiteracy rates? Extracting grandma from the Murdoch Mesmerizing Hour not likely to happen, but if we give the kids a fighting chance, they might not be influenced by her cultish ravings at all.
Thanks, Seajay. I once gave a talk to a room full of young Planned Parenthood advocates about how abortion might become illegal in the future (I could see they didn’t believe me). Afterward, we talked in small groups and one tearful young woman asked how they could know what information on the Internet was true and what was false. None of the young women had a clue. This scared the S$@&T out of me. Still does.
wow. My best friends are College Professor and retired lawyer who still conducts a Constitution course. Their remarks and observations scare the S$@&T out of me too.
I'd like to think some good will come out of all this and put more attention and especially funding to our schools. sigh
I agree Seajay, education is paramont.
Unfortunately, the folks who want to dumb down the public are doing all they can to accomplish that goal by trying to kill public education by passing laws to allow the taxpayers' public education funding to be diverted to private/religious/homeschooling families by using School Vouchers. I know first hand-the NH Republican legislature has been doing just that. A.L.E.C. is behind those efforts. Please read (this link also discusses what else A.L.E.C. is doing.): https://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_%26_Education
Florida legislature just passed and the governor signed a law that gives $8,000 vouchers to every families to use to send their kid to any school of the parent’s choice. Killing public education is a big part of the Repugnican platform.
Yes, the Democratic governor of New York, which once had some of the best public schools in the nation, is now advocating for MORE charter schools, when many of those in existence are folding. They are union free and many teachers eventually migrate to public schools for the pay, but that doesn't keep the state from pouring money into charters.
DeSantis and Devos have gone from mildly irritating right wing to foaming at the mouth, rabid fascists. I believe teachers are at the front of the frantic refugee escape route out.
Au contraire, Devos has never been merely or mildly irritating. She and her brother Eric Prince hold views, and tremendous wealth to effect them, that are - or should be - anathema to American principles. Not "irritating"; dangerous and destructive - deceptive and duplicitous and somewhat secretive.
I am a college, educated, full time working single mom of 2 children who are now in college. I had to join a book club to start reading on a regular basis. I am no longer on Facebook and deleted Twitter when they allowed the former guy back on. There should be social media addiction recovery groups out there.
and the ChristFacist are attacking critical thinking by-banning books.
The danger is often from with in.
Thank you for that prophetic quote from Lincoln, the best of the best.
SPIN, SPIN, SPIN...
"What have you done for me, lately..."
Dominion could have been an American hero at a time when we really need one, but instead has shown itself to be just another instance of capitalism maximizing shareholder value, regardless of any other considerations.
Bennett, While my reply is not intended as a defense of Dominion’s actions, I wouldn’t dismiss its lawyers who produced a trove of damaging discovery, including text messages, emails, and under-oath testimony. I believe it was Lawrence O’Donnell, who underscored that a trial transcript would have read pretty much the same as what’s already said in the deposition transcripts we actually have. Hence, I don’t imagine we have heard the end of the ripples from the Dominion suit.
Their discoveries, which seem to be orders of magnitude more than the DOJ has produced in its undoubtedly more massive investigations of Jan 6, are immensely important to those of us interested in reality. I fear that those who are disinterested will be unmoved, other than to say that the little they heard about it sounded made up, unproven, no worse than anyone else, ...
As Prof Reich and others have noted, what would have been so much better in a settlement or trial result, even though it still would have fallen in deaf ears in many cases, would have been such things as Fox hosts being required to state on their shows that they lied, and why, and having to be renamed as Fox Opinions or something other than pretending to be News.
I imagine that at least two-thirds of their viewers would be unfazed even by that sort of thing, but I imagine that *some* would have, and our elections run on thin margins.
So, point taken, and I agree that the Dominion lawyers and investigators did us a great service. I regret that the opportunity was not taken to maximize the utilization of the info they obtained.
Bennett, With sincere apologies for my belated reply, I write, because, while I share your disappointment, I take heart from my understanding that Dominion attorneys refused to settle until, through discovery, they had uncovered the truth. I don’t imagine any of us can predict the potentially significant impact of this pre-trial discovery on subsequent suits against Fox.
I bet that some of the Dominion lawyers were more honorable and interested in justice more than Dominions parent company.
Bill, I wouldn’t know, but, given the production we actually have, I’m focused on next steps.
The issue of sanctions remains open.
Good to know. Thanks Daniel.
Daniel can you tell us more about what this could mean.
Isn’t that what Capitalism is all about?
Thank you, Robert.
🤮
Amerika has been turned into a shttholle country, exploited by the greedy super-rich and their lying corporations.
(STILL LYING) Big Oil's climate catastrophe is *already* starting to collapse supply chains and civilisation.
Until advanced societies begin to treat GREED as a mental illness, they will be unstable, and will soon destroy themselves.
But don't worry, after man is gone, the earth will heal itself in only 100,000 years or so.
#GOPTraitors
#Murdoch
If mental illness is some kind of deviation from the norm, then greed in America can't be considered mental illness, nor can violence, predation, corruption, thievery, fraud, treason, sedition, etc. etc. etc. because those appear to be the norm in this nation that increasingly seems to be a laboratory for despotism and depravity; no wonder Pretend King Rump holds court to a chanting crowd "USA! USA! We're No. ! We're No. 1!" Number one in what exactly.....
GREED is truly the most terrible challenge of our times, and capitalism is its tool, its means to power and more greed.
Greed is a (contagious) mental illness, an unfillable hole, a hunger that denies justice, a brutal expression of broken egos.
Greed is having a million times as much as the poor and still feeling you don't have enough.
Greed consumes the earth without respite, and is a cancer on humanity.
Greed destroys us and our children and their future.
Greed is death.
There is a wonderful story that depicts the consequences of greed... imagine a realm consisting of starving souls, each provided access to a large communal bowl overflowing with nutritious delights..... and each one is provided a spoon with which to access the much desired food.... but the handle end of the spoon extends about 4 feet.... so they will never actually reach their own mouths ..... heaven is when they realize they could actually serve each other!
That’s a pretty cool metaphor, Mary Jane!
❤️
William, greed is all the things you cite. It is interesting that we stress over and have drug wars over certain drugs but completely ignore greed as the massive addiction it is. Those greedy folks at Fox are beyond addicted as are Beezos, Musk, Trump, and so many on Wall Street. No one needs as much money as those folks have, but they simply can't stop accumulating. There are some rich people who have learned to manage their need to accumulate wealth a bit, but not many and there are always strings attached to whatever giving they do, like naming buildings after themselves. People in Congress should be talking about taxing the rich as interventions to ease them off their drug of choice, greed. Democrats could do that to get things rolling. Associate being super rich or a super-rich-wannabee as being addicted to accumulation, in short, greed. Maybe candidates won't want to be seen as greedy since for Christians, greed is a sin. OK, I know the crazy white nationalist Christians don't see anything they do as sinful, but maybe the ordinary voters will see it differently. It could happen?
Yrs, so true. There are two main dangers for greed:
1. Never feeling you have enough wealth, a true addiction needing always more and never feeling satiated.
2. Those super-rich who feel that only infinite wealth can protect them from the future, e.g. the climate catastrophe. Their wealth has always protected them in the past, and the climate catastrophe will be truly apocalyptic, so they need infinite money to "protect them". We all know, of course, that when supply chains collapse, money will only help for a short time.
Reminds me of the bullies in Race for your life Charlie Brown. "Where number one!" Or "Odoyles Rule" from some Adam Sandler picture.
We only hope the greed takes humanity out fast, the earth needs to heal.
Thank You William!
You know....the earth wont be able to evolve another sentient species before the sun warms it up enough to start frying all life (not even counting climate change). And if after humanity is gone regular life was the only thing left in our absense until regular life could not survive, its OK. Id consider that 100,000 years of post sentient life a win.
Me too. But don't discount corvids!
There is something to be said for Ravens. Octopus might have a chance though once the oceans get to hot that could be a problem. That is one smart short lived animal. Well who knows they might adapt. Ravens can at least teach their young. Octopus gift their young with life and then die. Not a lot of teaching going on there.
👍
I see you had the same reaction to the settlement as I did. A real disappointment for all the reasons you mentioned!
Makes my stomach turn to hear people cheer as though justice was served and that their reputation will be forever tarnished. It’ll be washed within hrs.
Justin, of course, there was no justice. It was a bunch of rich guys settling a minor scrape with the healing balm of money. Those two corporations did well while the rest of us were bamboozled. The Fox viewers will never know how they have been used but the rest of us will note how truth is being trampled in the dirt.
Yes! Forgotten when the next mass shooting, climate change weather disaster, etc., dominates the news cycle. The Fox News viewers in my household don't give a damn about this lawsuit!
So freaking disappointing. So many of us wanted this day in court.
Susan, I suspect because so many of us wanted the day in court to settle some issues related to Fox lying and gaslighting, that is the reason Dominion caved. They had an excellent case, but didn't want to have to spend 6 weeks or so dealing with the crap, then have the chance the jury would give them nothing. When it is 700 million + or a possible nothing, justice is not going to be part of it. Truth again loses a major battle and so do all Americans.
It feels like betrayal. I just don’t understand. Everything went their way in the pre trial. Why did they settle? So very disappointing....
It is the American Way of Wealth. Pay the fine, admit nothing, repeat destructive behavior, pay the fine, admit nothing...
Always money
Beyond enough money for security and comfort, the rest is indeed the root of all evil. Those who must have millions or billions are at heart evil, no matter how they try to hide it through self aggrandizing good deeds.
Those good deeds are never enough to make up for how they got the money in the first place. It is only to placate the masses so the revolution doesnt come for them.
JUST the $price$ of doing business, huh!!?!!
Actually, the settlement is about 3/4 of Murdoch's yearly profits only from his US operations. As I explained on LFAA back on March 31, Rupert has survived many defamation & invasion of privacy claims in the UK. When in trouble jettison an underling to the chasing wolves.
However, (there's always a however) the sacrificial Underling in the Dominion case, a producer for Tucker, refused to be the Fall Woman & filed two lawsuits in the weeks before the Settlement. I believe those pending actions have excellent settlement value as Faux News cleans up the scattered debris in the impact radius.
FAUX news... HA!
Thank You
And since the value of the fine is usually quite small, it is indeed little more than a token charge for cheating society.
Like I’ve been saying for a couple of decades now:
They should be #PoxNews
Because they are a pox on humanity
Spewing lies through
A tool named Hannity
The on air hosts should be eating crow right now, but instead of facing justice, they just have to pressure test who they’re going to lie about next.
They should be eating crow, but instead a Supreme Court justice and his Fox-loving spouse may very well be eating WITH crow, expensive meals fit for corrupt, amoral fraudsters.
Annie Cross ; The lawsuit or , at least impeachment in the eye of the public, of Clarence Thomas, may give some satisfaction. One would think there might be SOME consequences for the obvious lack of integrity and breaking of all ethics rules?
One would think....
Thomas won't be impeached for obvious reasons, and Thomas won't resign.Like George Santos who won't resign, the shameful and shameless spit in the face of decency and honor.
outrageous.
but the word is there's more lawsuits to come. are there? if so, can faux news stay out of the blinding light of truth forever?
By Smartomatic
Yup, there are multiple, many actions: OAN & other Tort Targets ... far from over.
It sure looks that way.
No they cannot; blinding light can be excruciating. Note well, Chapter 11 is NOT available to Faux News like Alex Jones who filed for bankruptcy protection claiming $1 Billion to 10 Billion in liabilities after a 965 Million Trial Verdict in favor of multiple Sandy Hook Plaintiffs who proved very painful personal torts -- painfully at trial.
I love Robert's doodles but tonite's effoft with Sandy Hook on top does not capture the realities of litigation to verdict & grim collection battles afterwards.
I see no reason why Fox News could not avail itself of Chapter 11 if it saw the need. I suspect you think that a corporation must be insolvent to file for Chapter 11, but that is not the law.
I don't however see any reason why Fox will need bankruptcy court protection. Judgments against them would have to be very, very large before that would come into play.
Even if only a small percentage of voters is won over it may make a difference.
Apparently Yes they can
This is just a reminder that we can't expect the courts to do the work of preserving democracy for us. We have to do it ourselves.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming obviously isn’t paying attention…
https://www.rabobank.com/nl/images/godelieve-spaas-pay-attention-motherfuckers.jpg
Wish I coulda been a fly on that settlement discussion room wall. Yes, Dominion could have done the entire country a huge favor by mandating public confessions and apologies. (Were they simply more concerned for their company's reputation over helping save our democracy?) They should have at least been awarded the original amount they demanded. They had so much evidence in their favor! They had so much leverage!! WTH happened in there?? It seems they somehow just caved. And why?
I wonder if Dominion was sickened by the "America" that revealed itself through this whole Rump era and just chose to take the money and be done with it. I wish they would distribute a chunk of that money to the Secretaries of State, like Jocelyn Benson of Michigan, who showed tremendous courage and integrity through the whole election process while under relentless attack.
MM, here's the deal. With the settlement, FNC MUST pay the 787M. With a guilty verdict, no matter the award, there would follow appeals, then more appeals, and, just like trump has done his entire miserable life, FNC money would outlast Dominion money, and the case would wither away. This is REAL money, for a company valued at around 80M. And, it's being made public, which is quite unusual for a settlement deal. And, it's just the beginning for FNC. More fun to follow.
EXCELLENT points! Hadn't thought of that and I think you're probably dead on.
I don’t understand why they caved. Usually if it looks like the plaintiff is winning or has a very strong case, which they did, then the defendant will try to make a deal. But this looks like Fox lawyers made an offer and they just snapped it up. I doubt they even countered. Maybe the jury sat down and they were all wearing MAGA hats.
Dominion had established that Fox's statements about Dominion were false. They would still have had to prove the statements were made with "actual malice." That's a very tough legal standard, and Dominion cannot be faulted for taking $787MM rather than roll the dice and maybe come away with nothing from the jury.
Predictable, but let's look on the bright side and hope that Smartmatic's lawyers are as much interested in democracy as they are in their 33% - breath holding optional.
Even if they also cop out, however, the seeping damage to FOX is irreversible, and any future lies will be immediately scrutinized. While it would have been ideal if FOX had been forced to apologize, their viewers would have migrated anyway and remain a danger. Whack-a-mole.
Perhaps the general climate of greed will ultimately be in our favor: the settlement was big enough that it might encourage others they lie about to try for some money too.
True. The viewers would just go somewhere else. That’s what Mu****** and his crew fears.
Well said, Robert. A truly depressing day for American democracy and accountability. The judge didn't cover himself in glory either - praising the high quality of 'lawyering' that had gone on to achieve this outcome! In my view, Dominion should, at the very least, have waited this out for a few days, as Fox was being damaged more with every passing hour. Until Fox has to broadcast to its listeners that it intentionally misled them, and until key presenters are forced to make the same acknowledgement, the festering sore on American 'journalism', remains. There are other lawsuits in the pipeline, not least the $2.7b claim from Smartmatic but yesterday's decision gives me no hope that these claims will end in anything more than substantial payouts to the claimants while Fox News sails blithely on, firing shells at the democratic infrastructures that underpin and guarantee the safety of the USA. So, surely it's now time to look at other solutions - like a law which says TV stations legally have to show both sides of the argument in cases of political debate, (the Reagan-era repealed Fairness Doctrine), rather than just the one side - which was, of course, Murdoch's original triumph over American journalistic standards and the original sin in all of this disastrous and dangerous mess.