Sep 26, 2022·edited Sep 26, 2022Liked by Robert Reich
The Vietnam War / 60s’ Civil Rights years were a terrible time for America. For a long time afterwards one could reasonably expect it was as low as we could go without having a Civil War.
Then came Reagan, Iran-Contra, Bush, et al. and we saw a new kind of disregard for decency and the rule of law disguised as decency itself and patriotism. Some bright spots since then notwithstanding, we have trended so far below any previously imagined low.
How can it be that I see the 60s, with my own death or PTSD being pursued by my own government, for a war widely condemned, with open racism and violence against people of color being a televised fact of American life, with women still needing a political movement decades after getting the vote, with alarms sounding about ecological ruin, that today’s picture is more bleak, and today’s young adults have it much worse than we did.
We believed we were fighting for just causes. We believed those of us who lived through it would prevail and reshape our society. Today’s young adults are not being drafted but rightly wonder how they can afford to live in peacetime. They see the stranglehold of corporate greed and can’t imagine why they should even want to participate in capitalism. They see what the worst of our generation have done, and are blind to the positive things we accomplished in our time, even those that are the very foundation of their values and causes, and the basis of their electronics-dependent lives.
I don’t know what the Russian or Ukranian equivalents are, or if there are any. I wondered throughout the Cold War as I do now if all of the soldiers on both sides who didn’t want to participate all refused to do so at once, what would happen. Surely, the war would simply become impossible.
The bit about getting the mass refusal to happen all at once is the tricky part. I imagine that a wide-scale soldier strike in Russia, after producing many deaths and incarcerations, would not only end the war with Ukraine, but quickly lead to toppling the government.
Requiring the sons and daughters of all governors, State representatives and assembly-persons, and all congresspersons to be drafted first, with no possibility of deferment, no chance of being an officer for at least two years, and guaranteed deployment to the front lines would retard governmental enthusiasm for military action.
More generally, there is a striking lack of personal cost and accountability among those who consider themselves the righteous protectors of wholesomeness as they send *other people* to do the dying or mentally survive the trauma of war.
Agreed. I have always felt that if an elected official doesn’t have any “skin in the game”, they don’t get to vote for a war. In other words, if they aren’t reserve military or have children or grandchildren in the military, they don’t get to vote on it. It’s average Americans and overwhelmingly poor and people of color who serve in the rank and file. Let THEIR parents decide if we need to go to war.
Dianna, I do like expecting our representatives at all levels to have "skin in the game," something most do not have. There are a few in Congress who actually served, but one wonders what kind of service they had and their perspective. If parents had the final say if their child would serve, our military would look very much the way it is, a bunch of poor desperate people pushed around by more prosperous mostly white men. OK, some men and a few women of color have obtained rank but one wonders what their feelings about those under their command are. Let's face it, war is just stupid! A few men want something, so decide they are going to attack a neighbor or other entity to get it. Destruction is the result. It takes a lot to build something but moments to destroy it. Putin wants to be Stalin or Peter the Great or something so invades Ukraine, an independent nation. One group in Ethiopia sees what another group has so goes after it. Then there's the religious nonsense that I have the right to destroy you for holding a different faith than mine. It is nearly always men who orchestrate this insanity but women go along with it, even participating in the destruction. We need drugs that can be secretly administered to men who indicate the need to cause a war or perpetrate other violence. We don't have time for male pissing contests when our planet is suffering so much from global warming.
Totally agree!! But then I wonder, is everyone eventually a possible victim to greed and power? Women have never had it, so we think we would do better. (I honestly think we would), but who knows? I did my master's thesis on poverty and micro-loans to help people out of poverty. An interesting part of that was the discovery that when women are given loans (in developing countries, sometimes as little as $20 to buy a sewing machine), they pay it back at a rate of over 98%. And, they reinvest in their communities and send their daughters to school, not just their sons. When men get the loans, they pay it back at a much lower rate and use the money earned due to the loan to increase their own wealth and social standing, and do nothing to help their communities or each other. And they still don't send daughters to school. Maybe that has changed, and that was what my research revealed.
@Ruth. Please think a little further. The dystopia we would need to live in which would see men systematically castrated by (who?) the government is one that you wouldn't want to live in either, even if it was run by women.
Bennett, we really did think we would change the world for the better back then. A lot of young people believe that today. I find a lot of similarities in today's youth to ours of the 1960s and early 70s. This time, there will be no "after the war" since the climate challenges we all face are ongoing and will clearly worsen if we do not stop our bad behavior now. Of course, we won't, just like ending the Vietnam War, it will be dragged out ruining millions of lives. Some men have to prove their manhood, and their ability to accumulate more wealth than any group of people can use, so, we who came of age in the Vietnam era need to join forces with today's young people and not only make our demands known but also vote like never before to remove from office those who would prolong for their own personal gains, the world's suffering.
Ruth Sheets ; I agree! and those who are election deniers should not be on the ballot! How can they commit to making an Oath of Office to follow the Rule of Law and the Constitution if they believe in and promote the Big Lie? They cannot truthfully make that important Oath ; They are Not Qualified for office! I don't see how that can work!
We got beat by the money and the guns. People like J. Edgar Hoover had our leaders murdered -- JFK, RFK, MLK - and then they murdered us at Kent State.
@Martha. My opinion: Nixon, Bebe Rebozo, Spiro Agnew and their cohorts assassinated the Kennedys. Some with names we will never know. Nixon set the National Guard on Ohio State Students. Probably Hoover did do the MLK assassination (and others).
@Janet. I believe my opinion on Nixon could be verified given the resources that were wasted "investigating" by the Warren Commission. But in the same way the Justice Department is internally conflicted about prosecuting a former President, can you imagine the "off the record" conversations that were had in the context of the two Kennedy brothers, one having beat Nixon for the Presidency, and the other opposing Nixon in upcoming elections, both having been shot?
@ Janet R. I suppose we have as much "democracy" as we ever did, at least since the Electoral College. And we have always had the contingent of folks such as the Confederates and the Christian Right. What seems to be different is that our increasingly technological way of relating culturally (social media and oligarchs owning medial outlets) has empowered fringe groups and minorities far beyond their numbers in our society. At least, that is one diagnosis of the problem.
I often joke (though half seriously) that the biggest conspiracy of all lies in propagating the meme that *all* conspiracy theories are a sign of craziness.
Martha Ture ; All true! ; They certainly sent a message to desist. "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave", Huh? Those murders were pure terrorism and J. Edgar Hoover was a terrorist.
I have wondered since the day loooong ago that I learned that mcconnell controls all the donations (at least from mega donors) heading for gop senators (and who knows? maybe the house as well)... and he parcels them out according to how well a potential recipient tows the party line as mcconnell determines it, etc..... AND around the same time when I learned he had demanded that gop senators sign an oath to vote party line (again, as defined by HIM) without question..... WHAT THINGS WOULD LOOK LIKE IF THEY ALL STOOD UP TO MCCONNELL AND TOLD HIM TO BLOW SMOKE.... and that was loooong ago. Just think... If those elected officials had banded together and defied mcconnell way back then, and stuck to it, what things would look like TODAY.
It is, and has always happened. Those who do not consent will not serve, even in the face of punishment. Choosing not to serve is a fundamental right that is taken away from people all the time.
Both ideas would stop corrupt policies and wars from being waged. A mass strike would be helpful, but the courage and belief of the ones literally bearing the brunt of the State’s brutal force to break the resistance, is hard to get. You need an inspiring leader on the scale of Gandhi, or MLK. The State makes sure those get quieted first. As for having the powerful’s children be the first drafted or made to live under the conditions a policy enforces would also be a “miracle” remedy. But the nature of Privilege is that you strive for privilege to get you and yours out of these bad situations whether it be a draft, a poor-performing school, an environmentally dangerous zip code, an arrest, or a violent neighborhood. I am grateful for Robert’s honest recalling of his experience, and Clinton’s letter. You can tell how how worthy a situation is by who has skin in the game.
MLRGRMI, I like your comment and know you are right about silencing the potential leaders first, unless the leader thinks he can use them. A leader in power rarely even visits the sites of battle and therefore, faces risk only from a disgruntled citizen. You are also right about the privileged. Once most people get some money, they move to the best community they can afford rather than staying and working to make things better. What we have learned recently, though is the schools of privilege like Yale, Harvard, Stanford, etc. are pushing out some truly appalling human beings. One can't necessarily tell if they were like that when they entered or if something happened while they were at schools that warped them to think themselves superior to everyone else. Privilege gets you something but it may not be what parents intended, although sometimes it does (Trump for example). I consider the children of the powerful and rich and can't imagine them in the military. I can't imagine for example, Don Jr. or Eric Trump serving anywhere. We need a way to just stop pumping up our military budget, which is not held to account, planes that don't work but cost a fortune while we insert ourselves into conflicts and don't make anything better. We have a global warming crisis that worsens while we allow men to orchestrate wars. Unacceptable!
“Requiring the sons and daughters of all governors, State representatives and assembly-persons, and all congresspersons to be drafted first,…”
ABSOLUTELY. I’ve long thought this should be a basic requirement for declaring war, or even just instituting the draft: That the children or grandchildren of the politicians voting for it would HAVE to be the very first drafted and the very first sent to the front lines.
With the prospect of a nuclear conflagration being on the horizon, and being given opportunity to be sent to witness it develop first-hand at the front, what's not to like about being a Russian draftee ‽ LOL!
On the other hand, I'm wondering if anyone else here had the same kind of gut response I had to the second sentence, in the first full paragraph in Clinton's letter: "I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway)."
to paraphrase "it's the political economy stupid", i.e.it's our inadequately constrained economic system that is doing our government in:we're all in for the ride.
Buffy Sainte -Marie put it best In her song “the universal soldier“. How could we ever organize an idea like hers on a worldwide basis when we can’t even form labor unions or consumer strikes on the cost of living caused by corporate greed? Wouldn’t it be nice to form a third-party to get these other two off their Dead keisters. I think all of these are wishful thinking and I have no idea how to institute any of them. But it sure is fun thinking about it.
Agree! No war has ever been fought for a good reason that all citizens agree with! I also lived through the internal conflicts of the 60s & 70s & worked as a Federal employee for the DOD! When my brother got his draft notice, our Mom & I suggested he should enlist in the USAF or Navy but he decided to take his chances on maybe not getting drafted but also thought it would be better to only have to spend 2 years rather than 4 if he enlisted! So he got drafted, went to basic training, & immediately sent to Vietnam & spent a year there. He did get a Purple Heart for being shot in the knee while driving his CO around. I don’t believe he had too terrible of an experience but still never talked about it! My husband is a 22 year USAF retiree & sure loves getting that monthly retirement check but when he was a young HS grad he had no desire for military service. As soon as he received his draft notice though he immediately visited his Air Force recruiter’s office to see if enlistment in the USAF would preclude him being drafted. It did & it kept him out of a Vietnam assignment until ‘72 after he was married to someone else & had 2 young sons. He was also older, 24 I believe, & had several years military experience under his belt with 3 prior base assignments all in support of the war efforts as a fightline supervisor. He told me several stories about his experiences in Nam but what he’s impressed on me was that nobody could relax awhile because there was daily rocket fire into their base! The worst incident he told me about was seeing a group of men both officers & enlisted getting blown to pieces bec they were standing in the doorway to their work Quonset hut taking pictures of the rocket fire instead of taking cover.
I believe we have the best military now with an all voluntary force. Most young men & women enter the military to earn educational benefits while enjoying free travel to sometimes very exotic & interesting places. My husband claimed he began to love being in the military bec he was transferred so often. He also took advantage of off duty education classes & earned an associate degree but didn’t pursue anymore education after retirement because he was offered a job with the Commonwealth of Kentucky. We have 4 sons & 1 daughter & only 1 son went into the military after HS but only stayed 8 years. My daughter wanted to go into the USAF but a terrible car wreck injured her hip & legs so much that she wouldn’t be able to physically complete basic training. The other 3 sons wanted nothing to do with the military primarily because we were involved in war with Iraq & Afghanistan, more unnecessary & expensive wars! Our government officials finally realized that it was impossible to train & maintain a top notch military if it was based on the draft. Putin is finding that out right now. His reservists don’t even want to go fight Ukrainians for no good reason. Other young men who have the means are leaving Russia in droves. With no manpower to fight his brutal illegal war, Russia will be waving the white flag sooner rather than later. Hopefully, the Russian parliament will remove Putin from power!
I agree wholeheartedly with the notion of sending the ones who sit on their duffs and corporate handouts and commit us to war - and the ones they care about - to the front lines.
As a 3rd generation soldier I figure I have the right to lecture everybody. Grandpa was WWI. Mom was WWII. Dad was WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I was Vietnam-era. So I can talk.
1) Unlike most conservative issues, this one is too complex to be resolved by a simplistic answer.
2) When the call to arms sounds, every able-bodied adult needs to show up at the reception station fast and in a hurry. That’s because when we need to go to war, time is of the essence. You can debate whether we should have gone to war after it’s over.
3) Everyone is expected to trust that the call to arms is legitimate. The citizens place profound trust in their leaders that they will not be led into harm’s way needlessly or for some frivolous end. In a sense we are all suckers that way and rightfully so. And that’s important because without that trust people wouldn’t show up.
4) The last time it was patently obvious that we needed to go to war was WWII, Korea was a maybe, but Vietnam and every war thereafter were definitely not.
5) Vietnam makes a good case in point. A lot of young men were enjoined to go over there and fight for their country. In hindsight that was bullshit. They may have been fighting for some other dumb shit’s country but it sure wasn’t theirs. We were lectured endlessly about the Domino Theory and how terribly important it was to defeat communism over there so we wouldn’t have to defeat it on the banks of the Mississippi. 58,000 American soldiers died trying to hold back the onslaught of communism, and you know what? We lost. You know what else? Vietnam never did invade us back. Today they are about as capitalist as we are. Take-away message: Communism is kind of like zits. Don’t pick at them and they go away by themselves.
6) The MiddleEast is another good case in point. A few years ago I attended the West Point Founders Day Dinner. General Abizaid, CENTCOM Commander after Gulf War 2, was the speaker. After his talk somebody asked why we keep involving ourselves in wars in the the MiddleEast. He answered, “Because America’s economy has always depended on a large supply of cheap oil.” I was aghast. Almost 14,000 American soldiers have died in the MiddleEast post 9/11 just so a bunch of fat fucks can drive around in their SUVs?? BTW, consider that under Obama, we produced all the oil we needed LOCALLY.
7) So I would posit that there has been a severe betrayal of trust between politicians (and their corporate bosses and lobbyists) and the American youth that has been so willing to lay it on the line at a moment’s notice. American youth are slowly beginning to realize that they are being played for suckers. But ultimately it will be the Nation that is the loser.
8. Donald Trump, go fuck yourself and your worthless family too.
First, I thank you and your whole family for the years of service to our country, one that has forgotten that our most precious resource is our people. Second, it is disgusting how easy it is for the powerful to send anyone to their deaths for the sake of more wealth and power. And third, trump and his worthless family are still playing millions of Americans, young and old, for suckers. They should rightfully be found guilty of treason and exiled to Russia, where they can then go fuck themselves.
Ken, such an exchange as Trump and Tucker for Griner and Whelen is a terrific idea, the problem, Russia doesn't want those two idiots, they want them here to continue sowing chaos here among their ignorant cult members.
I don't know that Putin--or Russia in general--would bite. They would have to know that they are getting dross--slimy dross, at that--for decent humans.
Well said and thank you for your service. Sometimes it feels like our military is simply a tool for our capitalists. And we have so many really good people serving. I still have friends from 40 years ago when I served. And the politicians don’t seem to think twice about sending all these good people to be cannon fodder. Of course they aren’t sending their OWN children.
Dianna. You are right about good people serving. I have had several of my students enter military service, one is currently at West Point. I do not want to hear of their deaths in a meaningless conflict to soothe the need of some rich men to get richer. I am glad good women have served too. I find it interesting the true hatred Republicans/conservatives, even former soldiers have for President Biden when he is one of the few in political service today who have had an offspring serve. Hypocrisy is a way of life right now.
YKW is 'you know who' (drumpf, of course)...I seldom dignify him by using his name anymore. daddy T is donnie drumpf's covertly dishonest father, Fred drumpf. Sorry to be so obscure...too used to evading the algorithms on FB.
This needed to be said. Like you, I served. Sadly, however, I have come to realize that we have, by eliminating the draft, developed mercenaries who come from areas with few opportunities. Business and government benefits at the price of a mercenary military. The draft personalized the war for each of us and compelled people to demand from politicians what are we doing there. Fast forward to Iraq, Afghanistan and it took 20 years before people asked what are we still doing there. With US bases in Germany, Italy, Japan, nearly 80 years after the Second World War, I often wonder how receptive we would be as a people having Japanese, Italian or German bases still here on our soil if we had lost the war. Mindful of the capitalist nature of our nation, who is profiting by our placement and maintenance of bases on other nations’ soil?
Ken, Your idea of universal service was the topic of the first year I debated in high school. The actual title "Resolved that the United States should establish a system of compulsory service for all citizens." I had to argue the affirmative. It was easy to find support but hard to get past the idea that the military was the first of the services that would get their pick of at the time, men and the "losers" would be sent to poor communities or forests to fix things. We presented it that 18-20 year-olds should pick which service they would serve. It could be the start of a career. College would be covered after they completed the two years. My partner and I won 3 and lost 1 debate. We were the only all female team in our district. We were not great, but we believed that if worked well, it could do a lot of good for President Johnson's War on Poverty. I don't know if something like that could work today. We do have Teach America which pumps a bunch of inexperienced young people into disadvantaged classrooms, places even veteran teachers struggle with. I have heard of only a very few of these young people who actually decided to make a career in teaching after their time with Teach America. I think they would have done better had they had classes with fewer problems while veteran teachers took the most challenging students. Those in charge believe the nonsense that anyone can teach. Boy are they wrong! I am still having mixed feelings about universal service.
No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. A Civilian Corps would just be hijacked by politicians. Think of what you're offering - a year or two of compulsory servitude from a person's life. Times that they may be away from home, not gainfully employed, not living their life, getting used to being forced to think, act and believe a certain way, or at least look like they believe. How about a year on the Abortion Police, tracking down and arresting women who had illegal abortions? That would be a good skill-builder. Do not take people and make them do things, no matter how noble.
Right....if your friend got $10K/month, what did the company paying him make for each employee? We really are the United $tate$ of America. There is a military industrial complex. I knew when we pulled out of Afghanistan it would only be a matter of time before something else compels our attention. Why every world problem requires an American solution bothers me particularly when we can’t fix our own problems. But if the politicians and corporations can focus our attention elsewhere we don’t focus them here.
$10,000 a month. I heard Defense Base Act cases. Lost of those employees were from third world countries. E.G. I heard cases involving South Americans, Africans, etc. who were injured working for our defense contractors.
Ken, yes, doing the right thing like paying our troops livable salaries is impractical while paying contractors outrageous sums. It has not been tried, but of course a congressman would say impractical. If he thought it a good idea, he might need to challenge the Pentagon and its extreme misuse of our tax money and god forbid anyone do that.
Robert has struck a clear chord with us today. It has raised so many issues and crossed so many years of history. In some form or fashion we have evidently all been affected. We need a good reboot
Here's a trajectory which diverged from yours. Grandfather a WWI combat vet, saw every major American action . . . had severe PTSD the rest of his life, and dropped dead at the age of 45 weeks after my natural father volunteered for WW II. Natural father came home from basic to bury him, went back. He himself was under 5' 6" and 120 lbs, read and spoke half a dozen European languages already, and was a college student who could have sat it out. Where did they ticket him? Combat infantry for the Pacific, of course. Which he never saw because a ruthless officer in basic caused an accident which shattered his thigh. He spend most of two years rehabilitating, and years after the war in physical therapy. He became a Quaker. We all stayed that way. Basta.
Come Vietnam, it was massively a war of choice with nothing at stake but bragging points for fractions of the American elite and military. I was well acquainted with others a little older in Friends Meeting who were jailed for going CO and suffered, but you have to know what you stand for and what you won't stand for. My older brother went CO in the last years of that one, and they weren't jailing us by then. I would have as well but I was just young enough they abolished the draft before my number rounded up.
When and as there is a call of arms, NO one should answer in a knee jerk manner. It is all our obligation, personal and to those elsewhere, to understand the issues at stake, the process being advanced, and the means to any declared end. The USA has absolutely no vital interest in Southwest Asia whatsoever. Our conflicts there over the last 30+ years are wars of choice and folly, initiated in deceit and injustice. No one should serve for that purpose. Not saying everyone on some other side was or is a nice person, but that's a separate issue. We shouldn't have the deaths and ruined lives of many hundreds of thousands on our national account for all that, and no American should have had their life sacrificed for them in all that by our 'deciders.' The vast majority of wars are evitable, especially if the citizenry takes a jaundiced view to the putative statements of their own side, as they, as we, all should. Sometimes a fight comes to you, and then choices get hard---but that is so much the exception.
Point of order: As to Putin's call-up, as I understand it he is mobilizing the entirely of the age cadres who have seen _prior_ service rather than implementing conscription of complete civilians. That's not because he's a nice guy but because Russia doesn't have time or manpower to train a mass body of unhappy conscripts. So this action is more in the nature of a reserve activation, if one involuntary for those summoned. It's closer to the activation and overseas deployment of military reservists and National Guard personnel on a selective basis utilized by the USA in Iraq and Afghanistan in the 2000s. Russia's present mobilization is very like our own action and for the same reason: we launched a war of choice and found that we, too, didn't have the professional manpower to prosecute the resulting actions. It is grotesquely ironic how were are patting ourselves on the back for 'backing Ukraine which was invaded' while simultaneously praising ourselves for invading and subjugating Iraq because . . . well, because our elites just felt like it, and nobody could stop them. Yeah, history: the visuals of sausage getting killed, with the hands on the meat grinder looking very much the same, regardless of nation-state.
Ejner, Ok, I missed your point. You say that because you are of a family of soldiers you have the right to lecture everyone else. You do, but that does not mean we should heed your words, at least in the first 3 points. As you mentioned later, 14,000 Americans lost their lives in the Middle East for a bunch of rich mostly white men who needed to get even richer, hoping that wealth would give them even more power. In a democracy, we should question every action of our government if it goes against our rights. Forcing people into military service just because mostly rich men are up for a pissing contest with some other men is against our rights. Propaganda is a power weapon against the American people and has pushed us into all kinds of lies like WMDs in Iraq which were not proven to exist, but we were forced into war by Bush and the Pentagon anyway. Russia is finally facing some backlash from its people after 7 months of an invasion they had no right to perpetrate. I get it that there was little honest news about the war, but Russians knew their president had attacked Ukraine and ignored it because they knew what happens to people in Russia who protest. Besides, it didn't really involve them. Now that the government is demanding a sacrifice from them (not the rich or well-educated, though), they do not want to participate. The men are leaving if they have the means. We'll see what happens.
Ejner, I agreed with your views 100%! I also think that "Handicaps" are an excuse to serve our country. I served 29 years in the Marine Corps and the U.S. Navy and I am not lying when I say that I worked with people with handicaps. I saw crippled men riding forklifts for 8 hours a day in warehouses, here in the USA, and even overseas; I saw and worked with people pumping gas into planes, tanks, trucks, and other vehicles without being in perfect health or even being able to speak English or that could not even speak at all; there were men and women that would never physically qualify for the military serving in other positions supporting the military that had were handicap. Instructors in wheelchairs can show recruits on how to operate computers, fix all kinds of weapons, drive trucks, help operate communication centers, mow the huge lawns where parades are held, and the blind would be most excellent in running secret communications using Braille in code in an overlaid or border to other text (it would be free from photos, copy machines, and being 3 dimensional hard to have a computer break the code). Every communist community that has been created in over 3,000 years has failed, mostly due to the need for some assertiveness by its leaders. Communism, like Socialism needs leaders, just as any group of people lead by a King or a Queen and they strongly rely on their military to enforce the laws that are created by the ruling leaders to stay in power. So, communism (both in the Russian and Chinese forms) has proven in their youthful existence that they are just another temporary form of government. They have discovered that they will also disappear as a 100% communist country without a mix of other styles of government blended into their government.
There is no country now in existence that was founded on truth, honesty, peaceful means and continues to function on those basic foundations. Lies, fictions, myths, fabrications, pure guess work and sometimes total fear for their lives is what nations need to continue to control their people and keep them "law abiding" citizens. Those that do not function in this way cease to exist, just as so many "Empires", "Kingdoms", and other such massive groups of people over human history. Now that nuclear bombs are in the hands of so many mentally unstable rulers, this could be the final chapter in the search of human history for a perfect government.
We forget what 'is' in the tale of the 'shoulds.' When there is war, the eligible persons DO vote on their participation, whether or not they will fight. This depends on the risk to harm of self, vs. the moral need to fight.
I disagree vehemently with one part:
"When the call to arms sounds, every able-bodied adult needs to show up at the reception station fast and in a hurry. That’s because when we need to go to war, time is of the essence. You can debate whether we should have gone to war after it’s over. Everyone is expected to trust that the call to arms is legitimate. The citizens place profound trust in their leaders that they will not be led into harm’s way needlessly or for some frivolous end. In a sense we are all suckers that way and rightfully so. And that’s important because without that trust people wouldn’t show up."
We don't need to negotiate that trust, impress a sense of duty or loyalty or shame, It is a version of VOTING whether you show up, in a true Republic. With a standing army, we need to put meat in the seat, as the saying is. Coercion and compulsion is usually immoral; in this case, most emphatically so. Should we have a war, yes or no? Russians say 'NO' Respect their choices, Putin!
PS: As of military service, my ancestry is a bit spotty. I had an ancestor who fought for Pennsylvania, as the United States wasn't yet worked out.
His sacrifice was memorialized by Franklin in his gratitude:
"Those [Germans] who come hither are generally of the most ignorant stupid sort of their own Nation, and as Ignorance is often attended with credulity when knavery would mislead it, and with Suspicion when Honesty would set it right; and as few of the English understand the German Language, and so cannot address them either from the Press or Pulpit, ’tis almost impossible to remove any prejudices they once entertain. They are not esteemed men till they have shewn their manhood by beating their mothers, so these seem to think themselves not free, till they can feel their liberty in abusing and insulting their Teachers. "
#1) My ancestor was born in Pennsylvania, and fought for his state's freedom.
#2) On behalf of Pennsylvania, fuck you, Benjamin Franklin, you bigoted Boston wetback with no military service.
Hhmf.
Thereafter, my lineage avoided wars, with one exception of riding for Mississippi Cavalry during the War of Northern Aggression (AKA Civil War). One laid down the flag in Appomattox during Lee's surrender, and as far as I am concerned, the Confederacy ended. For the modern MAGA Confederates and Proud Clowns, see #2) above. And if I ever meet a Proud Clown, I'll tell it that I condemn their organization for being open to non-Aryan blood, and ask their name.
Ken, you are right about talking before warring. A lot of men want to pass that step and do. I don't want to look back later and say, "Oh my, we shouldn't have done that. We lost over 58,000 Americans and have so many wounded beyond repair." Let's face it, a lot of men and some women got really rich off the War in Vietnam and continue to do so from war after war, conflict after conflict. They pay taxes only when forced to. We the people are just the fuel for their wealth and we continue to permit it under the guise of patriotism. Enough!
It's called shoot first and ask questions later. Often does not turn out to have been the best first choice strategy. I agree though, WWII was a must do situation.
I was on the edge of my seat reading this; I just barely missed getting drafted. However, I knew guys from our area who never returned, and those that did were never the same. When you fight for a reason that you understand, deep inside, then it makes some kind of sense... like with Ukraine fighting to stay a free country. But many wars never seem to make sense. This deeply affects the morale of the troops and therefore the ability for them to try to overtake the enemy thus increasing casualties. War should always be a last resort, in my opinion.
You are so very right. In my view few wars make any sense. The Ukrainians defending their own country is both understandable and commendable, Russia attacking Ukraine is disgusting and deplorable. The League of Nations and the United Nations were supposed to be deterrents to war, but in each case were stripped of their teeth. Apparently too many large nations want the option of war, I wonder what would happen if we stopped all production of weapons.
As Eisenhower pointed out, the USA has become a military industrial economy. I have lived in states where the military industry supports the economy, making ships, planes, helicopters, guns, ammunition, precision instruments, etc. If our on-going wars ended, the economy would crash.
There’s a writer who wrote a lot about Asian US politics, called it “military Keynesianism” Many Red states have no other economy.
"These arguments will come from the very people who denied that the economic recovery plan created any jobs. We have a very odd economic philosophy in Washington: It’s called weaponized Keynesianism. It is the view that the government does not create jobs when it funds the building of bridges or important research or retrains workers, but when it builds airplanes that are never going to be used in combat, that is of course economic salvation." Barney Frank
@Ken Taylor. There is a condition among mammals called "prolonged adolescence". One difference between domesticated dogs and the wild variety or wolves is the continuation of adolescent behaviors in tame animals throughout life. In the case of dogs, this condition makes them tamer. The same "lack of maturation" occurs in humans, but in the case of humans the sustained adolescent condition keeps them violent and relatively unconstrained by their impulses. I'm not a psychologist, I'm a political scientist, so my diagnosis is based on comparing the relatively high rates of crime and violence among young men to the comparable rates of crime and violence among only a subset of older men. As a young man, born into a gun culture on a farm, I shot all manner of guns. I liked the power of striking at a distance. But I hated looking at the dead animal who had no reason to die. I haven't owned a gun since 1967, and I haven't used a gun since I got out of the Army in 1970. But too many people never outgrow that sense of power that goes with striking at a distance. Those folks are simply, in my view, not fully matured and never will be. Regulation of guns is the only responsible societal posture to take and the only responsible policy position to take. Don't vote for any candidate who thinks gun ownership is a right, or that using a gun is right.
Yes. I know some people actually hunt for food and I get that. A long-time friend told me about his shooting a moose.... for no reason other than they were all out hunting for trophies. When I run across a moose, elk, deer, bear, wild cat or any other creature in the mountains, I am in awe. The last thing I'd do is shoot them. One reason is I don't have a gun.
Thank you Mr. Reich for both sharing your story on the prospects of being drafted and for sharing President Clinton’s letter. It’s enlightening to hear of these pivotal moments in time.
My draft # was 44. I was drafted in January 1971 just after I married in November 1970-- but when I reported (in Detroit) my feet had a foot fungus from lazy worker rules where I worked at the time and where I stood with wet feet for 8 hours a day. They took one look at my feet, sent me home, and a couple of months later I received a 4-F draft card (that I still have it) in the mail. A big relief, now if only my marriage had worked so well...
Thank you. So many of us remember those times so well—-young college students, anti-war protests, and confounding our parents in the rejection of what we’d be taught. I was raised as a midwestern - republican - farm girl. Conservative to the bone. I remember the shame our family felt when my young cousin married her love and moved to Canada. It didn’t take long for me to grow up a bit, and be proud of her and her husband.
So much in your letters resonates with me and makes me remember who I was and how far I’ve come —now a staunch Liberal and passionate human rights advocate. I lived and taught school in south India and was profoundly changed by that experience, in my late 60’s, observing what struggles women, poor and the disenfranchised live. In India——-the modern world and the ancient world coincide everyday. It hits you in the face when you leave your home.
As Twain said, and I paraphrase, ‘I didn’t know what a complete ass I was until I lived abroad’ .
And——now my husband and I are global citizens. My husband and I have retired to Europe where we are in community with so many other US Citizens that are fighting the good fight from abroad. Your daily words mean so much to me. Keep up the passion. It is felt so many miles away and appreciated.
I pray we never haver have to relive those Vietnam times. I look at our country today & do not recognize it- I have a daughter and son in their early 30's & was so excited to bring them into the world at that time, with such a bright future ahead. Honestly, seeing the state our country is in today, I feel guilty having brought them into it.
Thank you for sharing both Bill Clinton's letter and your own experience. Although considerably older than you, I was also in college in 1968. I started my college education in 1964 at the age of 31. Like you, I was adamantly opposed to the Vietnam war. We marched, wrote letters, and cried when our friends were drafted. I campaigned for any politician willing to end the war. I hated the barbaric things we did to the Vietnamese citizens. I also felt sorry for the military who went to Vietnam willingly or drafted. I detested the Americans who called the young men who protested, cowards, and chickens. Like the later Iraqi war a large proportion of Americans thought any war was alright because the government said so.
As I have told you, I had ROTC, flunked the physical exam, but was drafted. in January, 1966.
I spent a year in Military Assistance Command Vietnam, as a combat engineer and was exposed to those tunnels. Combat included search and destroy Operations Junction City and Cedar Falls in the Iron Triangle. Also advisor to the ARVN and CIDG, the Civilian Irregular Defense Group.
After I came home, I was in the Army of the occupation of the South, although my main duty was to give medical discharges until I was separated in January, 1968. I was "called up" later that year due to the riots.
I have a VA disability, which probably helped my career. I had a reserve commitment until 1974.
I am probably the last survivor from my unit. Agent Orange, I never joined any veterans' organization, although my father had been very active. Most of my work colleagues were veterans, high ranking in most cases, but I was one of only a few who actually had combat exposure. Most had been military lawyers and judges.
I was willing to be drafted. I was full of propaganda about the domino theory. Now I know otherwise. The Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened. Nixon turned out to have been a traitor.
My brother was ROTC soldier of the month when in college, was unable to pass the physical. and did not have to go. He went, like Robert, to Oxford.
Bill Clinton's sleazing out of a commitment he used to keep his ass safe when boys I knew had no such choices is as despicable now as it was then. We in the anti-war movement were leading lives of purpose. Leading a purposeful life seems to have lost popularity, except for Gen Z, who see that there's nothing to do that makes any sense except working against global warming. Don't call it climate change. I'm sorry for the people of Russia, some of whom are decent, good, and kind. But we are all of us in a dying world, and the only question is which horse does death ride when it comes swiftly for you. Nuclear war? Fire? Flood? Covid? Drought? Heat? Capitalist refusal to provide you with heat and food? Destruction of farm lands? Extinction of pollinators? Collapse of ecosystems?
Not to take issue with the ad hominem method of argumentation... but even though that is the first result that comes up (when searching 'google.com' for "percentage graduated college") - and Pew is a pretty good source - the story is more... complex: add in associates degrees & some college - while controlling for bias in the methods of the source - and you get *some* semblance of the picture... looking backward!
The truth about college that those disappointing numbers don't tell is that rates of enrollment and completion are up across all races & ethnicities over the last two decades; when one controls for survivorship bias and projects forward, one can see why parents (and students) get excited about college (and folks familiar with the UC system get excited about how it should be done, i.e. enabling income mobility).
@Martha Ture. Or will we all wake up some day and start, belatedly, to work towards a sustainable future? Let's hope something like that can happen! Hope! Hope plus work might make a difference.
A whiff of Alice’s Restaurant here. The viet nam war was not our war. Our two boys too young. But I promised them I’d take them to Canada if it came to a need to fight or flight. We chose flight but the ‘war’ came to an end. Each night we were exposed to how many died that day, to the point my mother in law asked ‘are w e supposed to be pleased so many viet congress were killed? Bless her heart, she woukd have helped us to get to Canada. I was against this ‘War’ bit too involved with chikdren, famiky to feel it was a part of our lives. And definitely not bloodthirsty enough to look forward to my two boys going over to kill. We were too young, too distracted to feel this war was necessary, but ho estly, my own selfish? Thoughts were to save my boys from being cannon fodder…patriotism took a very low ru g next to fierce love for my boys. And so it probably is for the Russian mothers…but where is their Canada?
Boy, do I remember that song! It was popular when I learned my high school friend had been killed only 2 months after arriving in Viet Nam, while I was marching against the war. 50 years later I still remember him and look him up on the Viet Nam Memorial Wall site online. Those times had a profound effect on me, but judging from the number of wars we've been in since, not enough effect on the world. And now a far right follower of Mussolini has been elected in Italy. History repeats itself no matter what we do, apparently.
While you and Bill were "draft dodging", I worked with a team of CCCO-trained counselors to keep inductees out of war. We were able to keep most of the men who showed up at the Quaker Meeting House in Buffalo, NY, out of the military, and I'm pretty sure that in my 20 something mind, I expected that this would end the war nonsense that or good. Recenly, my 6 year old grandnephew asked his mother how many wars our country has fought in. When I looked it up, it was 90 or so. The draft is the iceberg's tip. We are a war waging nation, and until we find some other way to do business with the world, there is no end to this. PS Glad you didn't have to go.
What a close call! That was a trag7ic and totally unjustified war. The only day I took off from High School was to join the Vietnam protest rally at the Cambridge Common. outside Harvard Square.
Mental health issues like narcissism deteriorate progressively. Sadly trumps supporters are going downhill just as quickly. They have lost their collective sanity. They lost their individuality to cult brainwashing. Understanding them and supporting their insanity is far more effective then hating them. Jim jones cult is a good example as to how far they will go. Drinking the koolaide is nothing compared to what depths and actions they are capable of. Protect yourself and by all means fight for your freedom and democracy. Be assertive, because you have positive energy and power of being right minded.
I agree with most of what you've said but I don't understand what you mean by this statement. "Understanding them and supporting their insanity is far more effective than hating them." Supporting their insanity?
Dr. Reich, I am grateful you were too short. I know that sounds weird, but any way to get out of that horrific war was a good way. I wish the 1968 peace talks had not been sabotaged by Nixon and his crew to get elected because then fewer lives on all sides would have been lost. The war was still going on and some of my high school classmates ended up drafted. My sister's 2nd grade teacher's husband was killed (she had attended their wedding) and the soldiers came to the school to tell her. Few who fought in Vietnam came back unscathed. I would like it if the whole Selected Service Program were ditched. If our military actions are just, people will join to fight. Now, the military is selecting mostly poor rural and urban youth, while other communities benefit from the industries that produce arms and the former soldiers, Marines, and sailors come back to poverty, few jobs, and extreme rents. That is not acceptable, but we keep giving the Pentagon an extra fortune while neglecting the people. When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?
The Vietnam War / 60s’ Civil Rights years were a terrible time for America. For a long time afterwards one could reasonably expect it was as low as we could go without having a Civil War.
Then came Reagan, Iran-Contra, Bush, et al. and we saw a new kind of disregard for decency and the rule of law disguised as decency itself and patriotism. Some bright spots since then notwithstanding, we have trended so far below any previously imagined low.
How can it be that I see the 60s, with my own death or PTSD being pursued by my own government, for a war widely condemned, with open racism and violence against people of color being a televised fact of American life, with women still needing a political movement decades after getting the vote, with alarms sounding about ecological ruin, that today’s picture is more bleak, and today’s young adults have it much worse than we did.
We believed we were fighting for just causes. We believed those of us who lived through it would prevail and reshape our society. Today’s young adults are not being drafted but rightly wonder how they can afford to live in peacetime. They see the stranglehold of corporate greed and can’t imagine why they should even want to participate in capitalism. They see what the worst of our generation have done, and are blind to the positive things we accomplished in our time, even those that are the very foundation of their values and causes, and the basis of their electronics-dependent lives.
I don’t know what the Russian or Ukranian equivalents are, or if there are any. I wondered throughout the Cold War as I do now if all of the soldiers on both sides who didn’t want to participate all refused to do so at once, what would happen. Surely, the war would simply become impossible.
The bit about getting the mass refusal to happen all at once is the tricky part. I imagine that a wide-scale soldier strike in Russia, after producing many deaths and incarcerations, would not only end the war with Ukraine, but quickly lead to toppling the government.
Requiring the sons and daughters of all governors, State representatives and assembly-persons, and all congresspersons to be drafted first, with no possibility of deferment, no chance of being an officer for at least two years, and guaranteed deployment to the front lines would retard governmental enthusiasm for military action.
More generally, there is a striking lack of personal cost and accountability among those who consider themselves the righteous protectors of wholesomeness as they send *other people* to do the dying or mentally survive the trauma of war.
Agreed. I have always felt that if an elected official doesn’t have any “skin in the game”, they don’t get to vote for a war. In other words, if they aren’t reserve military or have children or grandchildren in the military, they don’t get to vote on it. It’s average Americans and overwhelmingly poor and people of color who serve in the rank and file. Let THEIR parents decide if we need to go to war.
Dianna, I do like expecting our representatives at all levels to have "skin in the game," something most do not have. There are a few in Congress who actually served, but one wonders what kind of service they had and their perspective. If parents had the final say if their child would serve, our military would look very much the way it is, a bunch of poor desperate people pushed around by more prosperous mostly white men. OK, some men and a few women of color have obtained rank but one wonders what their feelings about those under their command are. Let's face it, war is just stupid! A few men want something, so decide they are going to attack a neighbor or other entity to get it. Destruction is the result. It takes a lot to build something but moments to destroy it. Putin wants to be Stalin or Peter the Great or something so invades Ukraine, an independent nation. One group in Ethiopia sees what another group has so goes after it. Then there's the religious nonsense that I have the right to destroy you for holding a different faith than mine. It is nearly always men who orchestrate this insanity but women go along with it, even participating in the destruction. We need drugs that can be secretly administered to men who indicate the need to cause a war or perpetrate other violence. We don't have time for male pissing contests when our planet is suffering so much from global warming.
Totally agree!! But then I wonder, is everyone eventually a possible victim to greed and power? Women have never had it, so we think we would do better. (I honestly think we would), but who knows? I did my master's thesis on poverty and micro-loans to help people out of poverty. An interesting part of that was the discovery that when women are given loans (in developing countries, sometimes as little as $20 to buy a sewing machine), they pay it back at a rate of over 98%. And, they reinvest in their communities and send their daughters to school, not just their sons. When men get the loans, they pay it back at a much lower rate and use the money earned due to the loan to increase their own wealth and social standing, and do nothing to help their communities or each other. And they still don't send daughters to school. Maybe that has changed, and that was what my research revealed.
@Ruth. Please think a little further. The dystopia we would need to live in which would see men systematically castrated by (who?) the government is one that you wouldn't want to live in either, even if it was run by women.
THis Castration schtick is bullshit! There are many ways to insure that when males piss on each other they are the only ones getting pissed on.
I agree. If the Chickenhawks had to deploy we might have a safer world. And not to a desk job.
Just think of Tom Cotton when you require skin in the game. A classic hardcore war monger.
I have always agreed with your view on politicians Dianna. I thought it was only my view, but it looks like many others thought the same way.
Bennett, we really did think we would change the world for the better back then. A lot of young people believe that today. I find a lot of similarities in today's youth to ours of the 1960s and early 70s. This time, there will be no "after the war" since the climate challenges we all face are ongoing and will clearly worsen if we do not stop our bad behavior now. Of course, we won't, just like ending the Vietnam War, it will be dragged out ruining millions of lives. Some men have to prove their manhood, and their ability to accumulate more wealth than any group of people can use, so, we who came of age in the Vietnam era need to join forces with today's young people and not only make our demands known but also vote like never before to remove from office those who would prolong for their own personal gains, the world's suffering.
Ruth Sheets ; I agree! and those who are election deniers should not be on the ballot! How can they commit to making an Oath of Office to follow the Rule of Law and the Constitution if they believe in and promote the Big Lie? They cannot truthfully make that important Oath ; They are Not Qualified for office! I don't see how that can work!
Without any religious connotations attached, AMEN to that! You are truly an advanced soul.
Beautiful truths, beautifully written. Thank you.
We got beat by the money and the guns. People like J. Edgar Hoover had our leaders murdered -- JFK, RFK, MLK - and then they murdered us at Kent State.
@Martha. My opinion: Nixon, Bebe Rebozo, Spiro Agnew and their cohorts assassinated the Kennedys. Some with names we will never know. Nixon set the National Guard on Ohio State Students. Probably Hoover did do the MLK assassination (and others).
@Janet. I believe my opinion on Nixon could be verified given the resources that were wasted "investigating" by the Warren Commission. But in the same way the Justice Department is internally conflicted about prosecuting a former President, can you imagine the "off the record" conversations that were had in the context of the two Kennedy brothers, one having beat Nixon for the Presidency, and the other opposing Nixon in upcoming elections, both having been shot?
@ Janet R. I suppose we have as much "democracy" as we ever did, at least since the Electoral College. And we have always had the contingent of folks such as the Confederates and the Christian Right. What seems to be different is that our increasingly technological way of relating culturally (social media and oligarchs owning medial outlets) has empowered fringe groups and minorities far beyond their numbers in our society. At least, that is one diagnosis of the problem.
@Janet R. Here is a really wild one. Joe Dimaggio had the Kennedy's killed because of how they treated Marilyn..... LOL
I often joke (though half seriously) that the biggest conspiracy of all lies in propagating the meme that *all* conspiracy theories are a sign of craziness.
Martha Ture ; All true! ; They certainly sent a message to desist. "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave", Huh? Those murders were pure terrorism and J. Edgar Hoover was a terrorist.
I especially like your last two paragraphs. The idea of a mass refusal of young men, and I suppose, young women is one that should be persued.
I have wondered since the day loooong ago that I learned that mcconnell controls all the donations (at least from mega donors) heading for gop senators (and who knows? maybe the house as well)... and he parcels them out according to how well a potential recipient tows the party line as mcconnell determines it, etc..... AND around the same time when I learned he had demanded that gop senators sign an oath to vote party line (again, as defined by HIM) without question..... WHAT THINGS WOULD LOOK LIKE IF THEY ALL STOOD UP TO MCCONNELL AND TOLD HIM TO BLOW SMOKE.... and that was loooong ago. Just think... If those elected officials had banded together and defied mcconnell way back then, and stuck to it, what things would look like TODAY.
Apparently, staying in power (plus the chance to leave Congress a multimillionaire) is more important to some people than honor or reputation. (:-)
and preservation of the Consitution, our democracy, etc be damned...... smdh.
It is, and has always happened. Those who do not consent will not serve, even in the face of punishment. Choosing not to serve is a fundamental right that is taken away from people all the time.
Both ideas would stop corrupt policies and wars from being waged. A mass strike would be helpful, but the courage and belief of the ones literally bearing the brunt of the State’s brutal force to break the resistance, is hard to get. You need an inspiring leader on the scale of Gandhi, or MLK. The State makes sure those get quieted first. As for having the powerful’s children be the first drafted or made to live under the conditions a policy enforces would also be a “miracle” remedy. But the nature of Privilege is that you strive for privilege to get you and yours out of these bad situations whether it be a draft, a poor-performing school, an environmentally dangerous zip code, an arrest, or a violent neighborhood. I am grateful for Robert’s honest recalling of his experience, and Clinton’s letter. You can tell how how worthy a situation is by who has skin in the game.
MLRGRMI, I like your comment and know you are right about silencing the potential leaders first, unless the leader thinks he can use them. A leader in power rarely even visits the sites of battle and therefore, faces risk only from a disgruntled citizen. You are also right about the privileged. Once most people get some money, they move to the best community they can afford rather than staying and working to make things better. What we have learned recently, though is the schools of privilege like Yale, Harvard, Stanford, etc. are pushing out some truly appalling human beings. One can't necessarily tell if they were like that when they entered or if something happened while they were at schools that warped them to think themselves superior to everyone else. Privilege gets you something but it may not be what parents intended, although sometimes it does (Trump for example). I consider the children of the powerful and rich and can't imagine them in the military. I can't imagine for example, Don Jr. or Eric Trump serving anywhere. We need a way to just stop pumping up our military budget, which is not held to account, planes that don't work but cost a fortune while we insert ourselves into conflicts and don't make anything better. We have a global warming crisis that worsens while we allow men to orchestrate wars. Unacceptable!
“Requiring the sons and daughters of all governors, State representatives and assembly-persons, and all congresspersons to be drafted first,…”
ABSOLUTELY. I’ve long thought this should be a basic requirement for declaring war, or even just instituting the draft: That the children or grandchildren of the politicians voting for it would HAVE to be the very first drafted and the very first sent to the front lines.
With the prospect of a nuclear conflagration being on the horizon, and being given opportunity to be sent to witness it develop first-hand at the front, what's not to like about being a Russian draftee ‽ LOL!
On the other hand, I'm wondering if anyone else here had the same kind of gut response I had to the second sentence, in the first full paragraph in Clinton's letter: "I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway)."
to paraphrase "it's the political economy stupid", i.e.it's our inadequately constrained economic system that is doing our government in:we're all in for the ride.
Kind'a makes you feel like you've been "drafted?"
The difference now is, it IS our system of government that has been and continues to be corrupted.
Yes, that sentence jumped out at me....
Buffy Sainte -Marie put it best In her song “the universal soldier“. How could we ever organize an idea like hers on a worldwide basis when we can’t even form labor unions or consumer strikes on the cost of living caused by corporate greed? Wouldn’t it be nice to form a third-party to get these other two off their Dead keisters. I think all of these are wishful thinking and I have no idea how to institute any of them. But it sure is fun thinking about it.
your comment on collective refusal to go to war reminded me of this
https://greekreporter.com/2022/06/28/sex-strike-ancient-greek-play-lysistrata-trending-us/
Agree! No war has ever been fought for a good reason that all citizens agree with! I also lived through the internal conflicts of the 60s & 70s & worked as a Federal employee for the DOD! When my brother got his draft notice, our Mom & I suggested he should enlist in the USAF or Navy but he decided to take his chances on maybe not getting drafted but also thought it would be better to only have to spend 2 years rather than 4 if he enlisted! So he got drafted, went to basic training, & immediately sent to Vietnam & spent a year there. He did get a Purple Heart for being shot in the knee while driving his CO around. I don’t believe he had too terrible of an experience but still never talked about it! My husband is a 22 year USAF retiree & sure loves getting that monthly retirement check but when he was a young HS grad he had no desire for military service. As soon as he received his draft notice though he immediately visited his Air Force recruiter’s office to see if enlistment in the USAF would preclude him being drafted. It did & it kept him out of a Vietnam assignment until ‘72 after he was married to someone else & had 2 young sons. He was also older, 24 I believe, & had several years military experience under his belt with 3 prior base assignments all in support of the war efforts as a fightline supervisor. He told me several stories about his experiences in Nam but what he’s impressed on me was that nobody could relax awhile because there was daily rocket fire into their base! The worst incident he told me about was seeing a group of men both officers & enlisted getting blown to pieces bec they were standing in the doorway to their work Quonset hut taking pictures of the rocket fire instead of taking cover.
I believe we have the best military now with an all voluntary force. Most young men & women enter the military to earn educational benefits while enjoying free travel to sometimes very exotic & interesting places. My husband claimed he began to love being in the military bec he was transferred so often. He also took advantage of off duty education classes & earned an associate degree but didn’t pursue anymore education after retirement because he was offered a job with the Commonwealth of Kentucky. We have 4 sons & 1 daughter & only 1 son went into the military after HS but only stayed 8 years. My daughter wanted to go into the USAF but a terrible car wreck injured her hip & legs so much that she wouldn’t be able to physically complete basic training. The other 3 sons wanted nothing to do with the military primarily because we were involved in war with Iraq & Afghanistan, more unnecessary & expensive wars! Our government officials finally realized that it was impossible to train & maintain a top notch military if it was based on the draft. Putin is finding that out right now. His reservists don’t even want to go fight Ukrainians for no good reason. Other young men who have the means are leaving Russia in droves. With no manpower to fight his brutal illegal war, Russia will be waving the white flag sooner rather than later. Hopefully, the Russian parliament will remove Putin from power!
I agree wholeheartedly with the notion of sending the ones who sit on their duffs and corporate handouts and commit us to war - and the ones they care about - to the front lines.
ON THE MATTER OF MILITARY SERVICE
As a 3rd generation soldier I figure I have the right to lecture everybody. Grandpa was WWI. Mom was WWII. Dad was WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I was Vietnam-era. So I can talk.
1) Unlike most conservative issues, this one is too complex to be resolved by a simplistic answer.
2) When the call to arms sounds, every able-bodied adult needs to show up at the reception station fast and in a hurry. That’s because when we need to go to war, time is of the essence. You can debate whether we should have gone to war after it’s over.
3) Everyone is expected to trust that the call to arms is legitimate. The citizens place profound trust in their leaders that they will not be led into harm’s way needlessly or for some frivolous end. In a sense we are all suckers that way and rightfully so. And that’s important because without that trust people wouldn’t show up.
4) The last time it was patently obvious that we needed to go to war was WWII, Korea was a maybe, but Vietnam and every war thereafter were definitely not.
5) Vietnam makes a good case in point. A lot of young men were enjoined to go over there and fight for their country. In hindsight that was bullshit. They may have been fighting for some other dumb shit’s country but it sure wasn’t theirs. We were lectured endlessly about the Domino Theory and how terribly important it was to defeat communism over there so we wouldn’t have to defeat it on the banks of the Mississippi. 58,000 American soldiers died trying to hold back the onslaught of communism, and you know what? We lost. You know what else? Vietnam never did invade us back. Today they are about as capitalist as we are. Take-away message: Communism is kind of like zits. Don’t pick at them and they go away by themselves.
6) The MiddleEast is another good case in point. A few years ago I attended the West Point Founders Day Dinner. General Abizaid, CENTCOM Commander after Gulf War 2, was the speaker. After his talk somebody asked why we keep involving ourselves in wars in the the MiddleEast. He answered, “Because America’s economy has always depended on a large supply of cheap oil.” I was aghast. Almost 14,000 American soldiers have died in the MiddleEast post 9/11 just so a bunch of fat fucks can drive around in their SUVs?? BTW, consider that under Obama, we produced all the oil we needed LOCALLY.
7) So I would posit that there has been a severe betrayal of trust between politicians (and their corporate bosses and lobbyists) and the American youth that has been so willing to lay it on the line at a moment’s notice. American youth are slowly beginning to realize that they are being played for suckers. But ultimately it will be the Nation that is the loser.
8. Donald Trump, go fuck yourself and your worthless family too.
First, I thank you and your whole family for the years of service to our country, one that has forgotten that our most precious resource is our people. Second, it is disgusting how easy it is for the powerful to send anyone to their deaths for the sake of more wealth and power. And third, trump and his worthless family are still playing millions of Americans, young and old, for suckers. They should rightfully be found guilty of treason and exiled to Russia, where they can then go fuck themselves.
Ken, such an exchange as Trump and Tucker for Griner and Whelen is a terrific idea, the problem, Russia doesn't want those two idiots, they want them here to continue sowing chaos here among their ignorant cult members.
The devil's in the detail. They must first be indicted, prosecuted, convicted, and sent to Guantanamo before we could trade 'em!
I don't know that Putin--or Russia in general--would bite. They would have to know that they are getting dross--slimy dross, at that--for decent humans.
Well said and thank you for your service. Sometimes it feels like our military is simply a tool for our capitalists. And we have so many really good people serving. I still have friends from 40 years ago when I served. And the politicians don’t seem to think twice about sending all these good people to be cannon fodder. Of course they aren’t sending their OWN children.
Dianna. You are right about good people serving. I have had several of my students enter military service, one is currently at West Point. I do not want to hear of their deaths in a meaningless conflict to soothe the need of some rich men to get richer. I am glad good women have served too. I find it interesting the true hatred Republicans/conservatives, even former soldiers have for President Biden when he is one of the few in political service today who have had an offspring serve. Hypocrisy is a way of life right now.
If you are speaking of YKW, everything he said was pure, unadulterated, toxic BS. He only said it because he knew it couldn't happen.
Back when YKW actually could have served, daddy T made sure to keep his son (who he always planned to use as a tool) out of it.
Please un-code. I have no idea who YKW is and daddy T? Truman? Trump? Thanks
YKW is 'you know who' (drumpf, of course)...I seldom dignify him by using his name anymore. daddy T is donnie drumpf's covertly dishonest father, Fred drumpf. Sorry to be so obscure...too used to evading the algorithms on FB.
This needed to be said. Like you, I served. Sadly, however, I have come to realize that we have, by eliminating the draft, developed mercenaries who come from areas with few opportunities. Business and government benefits at the price of a mercenary military. The draft personalized the war for each of us and compelled people to demand from politicians what are we doing there. Fast forward to Iraq, Afghanistan and it took 20 years before people asked what are we still doing there. With US bases in Germany, Italy, Japan, nearly 80 years after the Second World War, I often wonder how receptive we would be as a people having Japanese, Italian or German bases still here on our soil if we had lost the war. Mindful of the capitalist nature of our nation, who is profiting by our placement and maintenance of bases on other nations’ soil?
Ken, Your idea of universal service was the topic of the first year I debated in high school. The actual title "Resolved that the United States should establish a system of compulsory service for all citizens." I had to argue the affirmative. It was easy to find support but hard to get past the idea that the military was the first of the services that would get their pick of at the time, men and the "losers" would be sent to poor communities or forests to fix things. We presented it that 18-20 year-olds should pick which service they would serve. It could be the start of a career. College would be covered after they completed the two years. My partner and I won 3 and lost 1 debate. We were the only all female team in our district. We were not great, but we believed that if worked well, it could do a lot of good for President Johnson's War on Poverty. I don't know if something like that could work today. We do have Teach America which pumps a bunch of inexperienced young people into disadvantaged classrooms, places even veteran teachers struggle with. I have heard of only a very few of these young people who actually decided to make a career in teaching after their time with Teach America. I think they would have done better had they had classes with fewer problems while veteran teachers took the most challenging students. Those in charge believe the nonsense that anyone can teach. Boy are they wrong! I am still having mixed feelings about universal service.
No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. A Civilian Corps would just be hijacked by politicians. Think of what you're offering - a year or two of compulsory servitude from a person's life. Times that they may be away from home, not gainfully employed, not living their life, getting used to being forced to think, act and believe a certain way, or at least look like they believe. How about a year on the Abortion Police, tracking down and arresting women who had illegal abortions? That would be a good skill-builder. Do not take people and make them do things, no matter how noble.
@Steve. Exactly right. "mandatory service" is the same thing as the Gulag...
Right....if your friend got $10K/month, what did the company paying him make for each employee? We really are the United $tate$ of America. There is a military industrial complex. I knew when we pulled out of Afghanistan it would only be a matter of time before something else compels our attention. Why every world problem requires an American solution bothers me particularly when we can’t fix our own problems. But if the politicians and corporations can focus our attention elsewhere we don’t focus them here.
$10,000 a month. I heard Defense Base Act cases. Lost of those employees were from third world countries. E.G. I heard cases involving South Americans, Africans, etc. who were injured working for our defense contractors.
Ken, yes, doing the right thing like paying our troops livable salaries is impractical while paying contractors outrageous sums. It has not been tried, but of course a congressman would say impractical. If he thought it a good idea, he might need to challenge the Pentagon and its extreme misuse of our tax money and god forbid anyone do that.
Robert has struck a clear chord with us today. It has raised so many issues and crossed so many years of history. In some form or fashion we have evidently all been affected. We need a good reboot
Here's a trajectory which diverged from yours. Grandfather a WWI combat vet, saw every major American action . . . had severe PTSD the rest of his life, and dropped dead at the age of 45 weeks after my natural father volunteered for WW II. Natural father came home from basic to bury him, went back. He himself was under 5' 6" and 120 lbs, read and spoke half a dozen European languages already, and was a college student who could have sat it out. Where did they ticket him? Combat infantry for the Pacific, of course. Which he never saw because a ruthless officer in basic caused an accident which shattered his thigh. He spend most of two years rehabilitating, and years after the war in physical therapy. He became a Quaker. We all stayed that way. Basta.
Come Vietnam, it was massively a war of choice with nothing at stake but bragging points for fractions of the American elite and military. I was well acquainted with others a little older in Friends Meeting who were jailed for going CO and suffered, but you have to know what you stand for and what you won't stand for. My older brother went CO in the last years of that one, and they weren't jailing us by then. I would have as well but I was just young enough they abolished the draft before my number rounded up.
When and as there is a call of arms, NO one should answer in a knee jerk manner. It is all our obligation, personal and to those elsewhere, to understand the issues at stake, the process being advanced, and the means to any declared end. The USA has absolutely no vital interest in Southwest Asia whatsoever. Our conflicts there over the last 30+ years are wars of choice and folly, initiated in deceit and injustice. No one should serve for that purpose. Not saying everyone on some other side was or is a nice person, but that's a separate issue. We shouldn't have the deaths and ruined lives of many hundreds of thousands on our national account for all that, and no American should have had their life sacrificed for them in all that by our 'deciders.' The vast majority of wars are evitable, especially if the citizenry takes a jaundiced view to the putative statements of their own side, as they, as we, all should. Sometimes a fight comes to you, and then choices get hard---but that is so much the exception.
Point of order: As to Putin's call-up, as I understand it he is mobilizing the entirely of the age cadres who have seen _prior_ service rather than implementing conscription of complete civilians. That's not because he's a nice guy but because Russia doesn't have time or manpower to train a mass body of unhappy conscripts. So this action is more in the nature of a reserve activation, if one involuntary for those summoned. It's closer to the activation and overseas deployment of military reservists and National Guard personnel on a selective basis utilized by the USA in Iraq and Afghanistan in the 2000s. Russia's present mobilization is very like our own action and for the same reason: we launched a war of choice and found that we, too, didn't have the professional manpower to prosecute the resulting actions. It is grotesquely ironic how were are patting ourselves on the back for 'backing Ukraine which was invaded' while simultaneously praising ourselves for invading and subjugating Iraq because . . . well, because our elites just felt like it, and nobody could stop them. Yeah, history: the visuals of sausage getting killed, with the hands on the meat grinder looking very much the same, regardless of nation-state.
You make a good point
Ejner, Ok, I missed your point. You say that because you are of a family of soldiers you have the right to lecture everyone else. You do, but that does not mean we should heed your words, at least in the first 3 points. As you mentioned later, 14,000 Americans lost their lives in the Middle East for a bunch of rich mostly white men who needed to get even richer, hoping that wealth would give them even more power. In a democracy, we should question every action of our government if it goes against our rights. Forcing people into military service just because mostly rich men are up for a pissing contest with some other men is against our rights. Propaganda is a power weapon against the American people and has pushed us into all kinds of lies like WMDs in Iraq which were not proven to exist, but we were forced into war by Bush and the Pentagon anyway. Russia is finally facing some backlash from its people after 7 months of an invasion they had no right to perpetrate. I get it that there was little honest news about the war, but Russians knew their president had attacked Ukraine and ignored it because they knew what happens to people in Russia who protest. Besides, it didn't really involve them. Now that the government is demanding a sacrifice from them (not the rich or well-educated, though), they do not want to participate. The men are leaving if they have the means. We'll see what happens.
Ejner, I agreed with your views 100%! I also think that "Handicaps" are an excuse to serve our country. I served 29 years in the Marine Corps and the U.S. Navy and I am not lying when I say that I worked with people with handicaps. I saw crippled men riding forklifts for 8 hours a day in warehouses, here in the USA, and even overseas; I saw and worked with people pumping gas into planes, tanks, trucks, and other vehicles without being in perfect health or even being able to speak English or that could not even speak at all; there were men and women that would never physically qualify for the military serving in other positions supporting the military that had were handicap. Instructors in wheelchairs can show recruits on how to operate computers, fix all kinds of weapons, drive trucks, help operate communication centers, mow the huge lawns where parades are held, and the blind would be most excellent in running secret communications using Braille in code in an overlaid or border to other text (it would be free from photos, copy machines, and being 3 dimensional hard to have a computer break the code). Every communist community that has been created in over 3,000 years has failed, mostly due to the need for some assertiveness by its leaders. Communism, like Socialism needs leaders, just as any group of people lead by a King or a Queen and they strongly rely on their military to enforce the laws that are created by the ruling leaders to stay in power. So, communism (both in the Russian and Chinese forms) has proven in their youthful existence that they are just another temporary form of government. They have discovered that they will also disappear as a 100% communist country without a mix of other styles of government blended into their government.
There is no country now in existence that was founded on truth, honesty, peaceful means and continues to function on those basic foundations. Lies, fictions, myths, fabrications, pure guess work and sometimes total fear for their lives is what nations need to continue to control their people and keep them "law abiding" citizens. Those that do not function in this way cease to exist, just as so many "Empires", "Kingdoms", and other such massive groups of people over human history. Now that nuclear bombs are in the hands of so many mentally unstable rulers, this could be the final chapter in the search of human history for a perfect government.
I'm in on #8.
We forget what 'is' in the tale of the 'shoulds.' When there is war, the eligible persons DO vote on their participation, whether or not they will fight. This depends on the risk to harm of self, vs. the moral need to fight.
I disagree vehemently with one part:
"When the call to arms sounds, every able-bodied adult needs to show up at the reception station fast and in a hurry. That’s because when we need to go to war, time is of the essence. You can debate whether we should have gone to war after it’s over. Everyone is expected to trust that the call to arms is legitimate. The citizens place profound trust in their leaders that they will not be led into harm’s way needlessly or for some frivolous end. In a sense we are all suckers that way and rightfully so. And that’s important because without that trust people wouldn’t show up."
We don't need to negotiate that trust, impress a sense of duty or loyalty or shame, It is a version of VOTING whether you show up, in a true Republic. With a standing army, we need to put meat in the seat, as the saying is. Coercion and compulsion is usually immoral; in this case, most emphatically so. Should we have a war, yes or no? Russians say 'NO' Respect their choices, Putin!
PS: As of military service, my ancestry is a bit spotty. I had an ancestor who fought for Pennsylvania, as the United States wasn't yet worked out.
His sacrifice was memorialized by Franklin in his gratitude:
"Those [Germans] who come hither are generally of the most ignorant stupid sort of their own Nation, and as Ignorance is often attended with credulity when knavery would mislead it, and with Suspicion when Honesty would set it right; and as few of the English understand the German Language, and so cannot address them either from the Press or Pulpit, ’tis almost impossible to remove any prejudices they once entertain. They are not esteemed men till they have shewn their manhood by beating their mothers, so these seem to think themselves not free, till they can feel their liberty in abusing and insulting their Teachers. "
#1) My ancestor was born in Pennsylvania, and fought for his state's freedom.
#2) On behalf of Pennsylvania, fuck you, Benjamin Franklin, you bigoted Boston wetback with no military service.
Hhmf.
Thereafter, my lineage avoided wars, with one exception of riding for Mississippi Cavalry during the War of Northern Aggression (AKA Civil War). One laid down the flag in Appomattox during Lee's surrender, and as far as I am concerned, the Confederacy ended. For the modern MAGA Confederates and Proud Clowns, see #2) above. And if I ever meet a Proud Clown, I'll tell it that I condemn their organization for being open to non-Aryan blood, and ask their name.
That was put so succinctly and beautifully. You nailed it. Thank you.
BRAVO SOLDIER!
Bravo for the strenght of spirit you have shown with this honest presentation.
Great post. Love the zits anaolgy.
Ken, you are right about talking before warring. A lot of men want to pass that step and do. I don't want to look back later and say, "Oh my, we shouldn't have done that. We lost over 58,000 Americans and have so many wounded beyond repair." Let's face it, a lot of men and some women got really rich off the War in Vietnam and continue to do so from war after war, conflict after conflict. They pay taxes only when forced to. We the people are just the fuel for their wealth and we continue to permit it under the guise of patriotism. Enough!
It's called shoot first and ask questions later. Often does not turn out to have been the best first choice strategy. I agree though, WWII was a must do situation.
Ken, you and I are in violent agreement.
I was on the edge of my seat reading this; I just barely missed getting drafted. However, I knew guys from our area who never returned, and those that did were never the same. When you fight for a reason that you understand, deep inside, then it makes some kind of sense... like with Ukraine fighting to stay a free country. But many wars never seem to make sense. This deeply affects the morale of the troops and therefore the ability for them to try to overtake the enemy thus increasing casualties. War should always be a last resort, in my opinion.
You are so very right. In my view few wars make any sense. The Ukrainians defending their own country is both understandable and commendable, Russia attacking Ukraine is disgusting and deplorable. The League of Nations and the United Nations were supposed to be deterrents to war, but in each case were stripped of their teeth. Apparently too many large nations want the option of war, I wonder what would happen if we stopped all production of weapons.
As Eisenhower pointed out, the USA has become a military industrial economy. I have lived in states where the military industry supports the economy, making ships, planes, helicopters, guns, ammunition, precision instruments, etc. If our on-going wars ended, the economy would crash.
There’s a writer who wrote a lot about Asian US politics, called it “military Keynesianism” Many Red states have no other economy.
"These arguments will come from the very people who denied that the economic recovery plan created any jobs. We have a very odd economic philosophy in Washington: It’s called weaponized Keynesianism. It is the view that the government does not create jobs when it funds the building of bridges or important research or retrains workers, but when it builds airplanes that are never going to be used in combat, that is of course economic salvation." Barney Frank
@Ken Taylor. There is a condition among mammals called "prolonged adolescence". One difference between domesticated dogs and the wild variety or wolves is the continuation of adolescent behaviors in tame animals throughout life. In the case of dogs, this condition makes them tamer. The same "lack of maturation" occurs in humans, but in the case of humans the sustained adolescent condition keeps them violent and relatively unconstrained by their impulses. I'm not a psychologist, I'm a political scientist, so my diagnosis is based on comparing the relatively high rates of crime and violence among young men to the comparable rates of crime and violence among only a subset of older men. As a young man, born into a gun culture on a farm, I shot all manner of guns. I liked the power of striking at a distance. But I hated looking at the dead animal who had no reason to die. I haven't owned a gun since 1967, and I haven't used a gun since I got out of the Army in 1970. But too many people never outgrow that sense of power that goes with striking at a distance. Those folks are simply, in my view, not fully matured and never will be. Regulation of guns is the only responsible societal posture to take and the only responsible policy position to take. Don't vote for any candidate who thinks gun ownership is a right, or that using a gun is right.
Well said! Emotional Intelligence is the key in human relationships and too many people have too little!
Yes, if someone must hunt, use bows. They require skill.
Yes. I know some people actually hunt for food and I get that. A long-time friend told me about his shooting a moose.... for no reason other than they were all out hunting for trophies. When I run across a moose, elk, deer, bear, wild cat or any other creature in the mountains, I am in awe. The last thing I'd do is shoot them. One reason is I don't have a gun.
Thank you Mr. Reich for both sharing your story on the prospects of being drafted and for sharing President Clinton’s letter. It’s enlightening to hear of these pivotal moments in time.
My draft # was 44. I was drafted in January 1971 just after I married in November 1970-- but when I reported (in Detroit) my feet had a foot fungus from lazy worker rules where I worked at the time and where I stood with wet feet for 8 hours a day. They took one look at my feet, sent me home, and a couple of months later I received a 4-F draft card (that I still have it) in the mail. A big relief, now if only my marriage had worked so well...
In my book, you served
Thank you. So many of us remember those times so well—-young college students, anti-war protests, and confounding our parents in the rejection of what we’d be taught. I was raised as a midwestern - republican - farm girl. Conservative to the bone. I remember the shame our family felt when my young cousin married her love and moved to Canada. It didn’t take long for me to grow up a bit, and be proud of her and her husband.
So much in your letters resonates with me and makes me remember who I was and how far I’ve come —now a staunch Liberal and passionate human rights advocate. I lived and taught school in south India and was profoundly changed by that experience, in my late 60’s, observing what struggles women, poor and the disenfranchised live. In India——-the modern world and the ancient world coincide everyday. It hits you in the face when you leave your home.
As Twain said, and I paraphrase, ‘I didn’t know what a complete ass I was until I lived abroad’ .
And——now my husband and I are global citizens. My husband and I have retired to Europe where we are in community with so many other US Citizens that are fighting the good fight from abroad. Your daily words mean so much to me. Keep up the passion. It is felt so many miles away and appreciated.
I pray we never haver have to relive those Vietnam times. I look at our country today & do not recognize it- I have a daughter and son in their early 30's & was so excited to bring them into the world at that time, with such a bright future ahead. Honestly, seeing the state our country is in today, I feel guilty having brought them into it.
Thank you for sharing both Bill Clinton's letter and your own experience. Although considerably older than you, I was also in college in 1968. I started my college education in 1964 at the age of 31. Like you, I was adamantly opposed to the Vietnam war. We marched, wrote letters, and cried when our friends were drafted. I campaigned for any politician willing to end the war. I hated the barbaric things we did to the Vietnamese citizens. I also felt sorry for the military who went to Vietnam willingly or drafted. I detested the Americans who called the young men who protested, cowards, and chickens. Like the later Iraqi war a large proportion of Americans thought any war was alright because the government said so.
As I have told you, I had ROTC, flunked the physical exam, but was drafted. in January, 1966.
I spent a year in Military Assistance Command Vietnam, as a combat engineer and was exposed to those tunnels. Combat included search and destroy Operations Junction City and Cedar Falls in the Iron Triangle. Also advisor to the ARVN and CIDG, the Civilian Irregular Defense Group.
After I came home, I was in the Army of the occupation of the South, although my main duty was to give medical discharges until I was separated in January, 1968. I was "called up" later that year due to the riots.
I have a VA disability, which probably helped my career. I had a reserve commitment until 1974.
I am probably the last survivor from my unit. Agent Orange, I never joined any veterans' organization, although my father had been very active. Most of my work colleagues were veterans, high ranking in most cases, but I was one of only a few who actually had combat exposure. Most had been military lawyers and judges.
I was willing to be drafted. I was full of propaganda about the domino theory. Now I know otherwise. The Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened. Nixon turned out to have been a traitor.
My brother was ROTC soldier of the month when in college, was unable to pass the physical. and did not have to go. He went, like Robert, to Oxford.
When I was in school, this was the doo wopp theme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edoqCg5izr8
At least get on the Agent Orange registry with the VA, I strongly suggest.
Come on generals, let's move fast
Your big chance has come at last
You gotta go out and get those Reds
The only good Commie is one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we blow `em all to Kingdom Come.
Bill Clinton's sleazing out of a commitment he used to keep his ass safe when boys I knew had no such choices is as despicable now as it was then. We in the anti-war movement were leading lives of purpose. Leading a purposeful life seems to have lost popularity, except for Gen Z, who see that there's nothing to do that makes any sense except working against global warming. Don't call it climate change. I'm sorry for the people of Russia, some of whom are decent, good, and kind. But we are all of us in a dying world, and the only question is which horse does death ride when it comes swiftly for you. Nuclear war? Fire? Flood? Covid? Drought? Heat? Capitalist refusal to provide you with heat and food? Destruction of farm lands? Extinction of pollinators? Collapse of ecosystems?
Why does a life of scholarship not count as a life of purpose...?
I'm sure it can. But the majority of US citizens are not educated beyond high school. Not even 40% of US citizens age 25 and older have a college degree. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/04/12/10-facts-about-todays-college-graduates/.
Not to take issue with the ad hominem method of argumentation... but even though that is the first result that comes up (when searching 'google.com' for "percentage graduated college") - and Pew is a pretty good source - the story is more... complex: add in associates degrees & some college - while controlling for bias in the methods of the source - and you get *some* semblance of the picture... looking backward!
The truth about college that those disappointing numbers don't tell is that rates of enrollment and completion are up across all races & ethnicities over the last two decades; when one controls for survivorship bias and projects forward, one can see why parents (and students) get excited about college (and folks familiar with the UC system get excited about how it should be done, i.e. enabling income mobility).
Subject: Putin's draft.
Executive Summary: RUN THE OTHER DIRECTION!
= )
Passport, check. Other nation investigated, check. Social network check. etc.
@Martha Ture. Or will we all wake up some day and start, belatedly, to work towards a sustainable future? Let's hope something like that can happen! Hope! Hope plus work might make a difference.
A whiff of Alice’s Restaurant here. The viet nam war was not our war. Our two boys too young. But I promised them I’d take them to Canada if it came to a need to fight or flight. We chose flight but the ‘war’ came to an end. Each night we were exposed to how many died that day, to the point my mother in law asked ‘are w e supposed to be pleased so many viet congress were killed? Bless her heart, she woukd have helped us to get to Canada. I was against this ‘War’ bit too involved with chikdren, famiky to feel it was a part of our lives. And definitely not bloodthirsty enough to look forward to my two boys going over to kill. We were too young, too distracted to feel this war was necessary, but ho estly, my own selfish? Thoughts were to save my boys from being cannon fodder…patriotism took a very low ru g next to fierce love for my boys. And so it probably is for the Russian mothers…but where is their Canada?
"Come on all you big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again,
Got himself in a terrible jam,
Way down yonder in Viet Nam,
So put down your books,
Pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lot of fun.
For it's one, two, three what are we fighting for,
Don't ask me I don't give a dam,
Next stop is Viet Nam.
And it's five, six, seven open up the pearly gates,
Ain't got time - to wonder why -
Whoopie we're all goin to die."
-- Country Joe and the Fish.
Boy, do I remember that song! It was popular when I learned my high school friend had been killed only 2 months after arriving in Viet Nam, while I was marching against the war. 50 years later I still remember him and look him up on the Viet Nam Memorial Wall site online. Those times had a profound effect on me, but judging from the number of wars we've been in since, not enough effect on the world. And now a far right follower of Mussolini has been elected in Italy. History repeats itself no matter what we do, apparently.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy sent home in a box.
A yes... A key line from the second verse. Well worth a mention.
While you and Bill were "draft dodging", I worked with a team of CCCO-trained counselors to keep inductees out of war. We were able to keep most of the men who showed up at the Quaker Meeting House in Buffalo, NY, out of the military, and I'm pretty sure that in my 20 something mind, I expected that this would end the war nonsense that or good. Recenly, my 6 year old grandnephew asked his mother how many wars our country has fought in. When I looked it up, it was 90 or so. The draft is the iceberg's tip. We are a war waging nation, and until we find some other way to do business with the world, there is no end to this. PS Glad you didn't have to go.
What a close call! That was a trag7ic and totally unjustified war. The only day I took off from High School was to join the Vietnam protest rally at the Cambridge Common. outside Harvard Square.
Mental health issues like narcissism deteriorate progressively. Sadly trumps supporters are going downhill just as quickly. They have lost their collective sanity. They lost their individuality to cult brainwashing. Understanding them and supporting their insanity is far more effective then hating them. Jim jones cult is a good example as to how far they will go. Drinking the koolaide is nothing compared to what depths and actions they are capable of. Protect yourself and by all means fight for your freedom and democracy. Be assertive, because you have positive energy and power of being right minded.
I agree with most of what you've said but I don't understand what you mean by this statement. "Understanding them and supporting their insanity is far more effective than hating them." Supporting their insanity?
Dr. Reich, I am grateful you were too short. I know that sounds weird, but any way to get out of that horrific war was a good way. I wish the 1968 peace talks had not been sabotaged by Nixon and his crew to get elected because then fewer lives on all sides would have been lost. The war was still going on and some of my high school classmates ended up drafted. My sister's 2nd grade teacher's husband was killed (she had attended their wedding) and the soldiers came to the school to tell her. Few who fought in Vietnam came back unscathed. I would like it if the whole Selected Service Program were ditched. If our military actions are just, people will join to fight. Now, the military is selecting mostly poor rural and urban youth, while other communities benefit from the industries that produce arms and the former soldiers, Marines, and sailors come back to poverty, few jobs, and extreme rents. That is not acceptable, but we keep giving the Pentagon an extra fortune while neglecting the people. When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?