You talk only in terms of economic and technological competition, but you ignore China as a threat to the world order. It continues to threaten Taiwan with military force. It is aiding Russia in its war of aggression against Ukraine. It helps to prop up the North Korean regime. And it commits large-scale human-rights abuses. The West was wrong to believe that a large-scale opening up of commerce with China would influence it to change for the better. Furthermore, there is a danger of the US and its allies being too economically dependent upon China. We shouldn't necessarily stop doing business with China altogether, but we should be a lot more careful about how we do it.
I really don't want to go back and forth on this point. Please take the time to do a little research on this topic before dismissing it as a rumor being repeated over and over. The German death camps during WWII were once a rumor - until they weren't !
I don't disagree with the fact that the Japanese were and did all that you say. The US took economic steps to thwart their efforts to achieve regional domination. The fact remains that the Chinese government is taking similar steps NOW to achieve similar ends. They currently have hundreds of thousands of people in concentration camps, have striped their citizens of all rights and are currently working with authoritian governments to support their efforts to do the same.
Let's stick with facts. Just because you've been hearing it over and over again doesn't means it is true (in regard to hundreds of thousands of people in concentration camps).
I’m thinking that the considerable difference between Japan’s potential military might back then and China’s, today, unfortunately may deem your take on the situation to be at least somewhat questionable. Sad (both that I could be right and that you could be wrong), but I nevertheless agree with and love the spirit of your argument!
Yes! Robert - well researched and clearly said. I remember the Japanese 'threat.' It's so much easier for demagogues to say "we are being attacked!" Than to look at our own Education system and infrastructure.
Robert this is valuable learning that must be read by all who are just now reaching
Adulthood.
I have wondered for over 50 years why we Americans always seem to need a "Bogey man"?
Be it the communists, the anarchists, the asylum seekers at our border or now the Chinese. It seems highly unnecessary to me but from time to time I fall prey to the fear of THEM myself.
China will brush Aside the USA at the first chance it gets. They want what we possess and will buy or bully it which ever is the most effective method. The South China Sea is the battle ground.
The Russians are just as treacherous and desire to. Re-imprison most of its bordering neighbors. It’s the 1930 all over again with Russia using the Nazi playbook and China the new 1930 Japanese playbook. J
The Chinese and the Putin Russians have already started a New Cold War. If we the USA NATO and the Australian Great Britain lay down we will be Run over and pushed off the Road of History without a second thought. Some People believed that Hitler could be contained with words and peace treaties. I didn’t work out so well and the same thing for Japan and Germany the AXIS decided to take on the United States, France,Britain .
The USA It’s not perfect, neither in its government or its actions, but the United States is far superior to the world envisioned by the Putin’s and the Chinese basically they want what we have and they’re gonna take it anyway they can get it in laying down just accelerates the process.
As I get older I realized there are worse things in life than Death. Ask any of the opponents to the Imperial Japanese and Nazi Germany. Dig up a few of the millions of concentration camp inmates and they will give a clearer prospective of a Dictatorship effect on persons with differences of opinion or beliefs.
As one of my neighbors ( a survivor of Imperial Japanese Battan Death March said ) NEVER SURRENDER ITS BETTER TO DIE THAN BE TORTURED! I was 7 Years Old and he died shortly afterwards from the effects of bamboo poisoning 13 years after the end of WWII.
I would accept that idea about Russia, but it appears to me that China needs us. They have investments in the USA, they (like the wealthy and banksters in the US) own lots of our debt. We buy Chinese stuff, who would buy as much as we do if we were not buying? And consider how many of our corporations make their products in China (like the trump family, who manufacture in China and other even lower wage countries).
Today the whacko was in Waco promoting his paranoia. The real threat from China is the Maga know-nothings at home who love their paranoid style and all the trappings of Dumpism. A clear-eyed foreign policy and military strength could resolve many issues between the US and China. Dump's whining about DOJ persecution won't get us anywhere but chaos, his speciality. In the current world Dump and company are minor leaguers. We need people in government who are from the majors. The Chinese are pros; we had better be too. Enough whacko stuff.
American tech companies do all that we accuse this Chinese Co. of doing. It's all about money. We should be equally skeptical of those American made multi-national corporations. They are all scooping up money, they are not patriots. Some of those tech moguls support trump, a homegrown authoritarian wannabe. So, I'm not sure about why I should be more worried about tik-tok than facebook, or anything Peter Theil supports. And I am worried. What with AI and deep fakes and big liars, there's a lot to worry about. But, above all else, worry about climate destabilization.
Paranoia is an integral part of the American psyche. Without an imminent threat from perceived enemies from other countries, we would be at sixes and sevens. I mean, who should we hate? Who should we fear? That's the American way. The last thing in the world the Chinese want is nuclear war with the United States. Mutual self-destruction is not in their playbook (even if it is in ours!).
It's extremely odd that you would offer a sermon on the dangers of creating enemies, when the creation of enemies is the driving force behind this highly profitable blog.
China is the largest dictatorship in human history, and is thus a threat to every freedom loving person on the planet. I agree we shouldn't be getting whipped up in to hysteria (another theme of this blog) but we should be clear minded about what the Chinese Communist Party represents.
You write...
"There’s a difference between seeing China as challenging American technological and economic dominance, on the one hand, and viewing China as potentially threatening America’s existence."
Except that any dictatorship with a nuclear weapons stockpile DOES threaten America's very existence. Wow, it's hard to grasp that this has to be explained to folks with your level of education.
And yet so many of our people appear to want dictatorship in the US. Anyone who supports trump at this point is rooting for authoritarianism in the USA. republicans who want to ban books and kill unions and privatize everything are not supporters of democracy. That's how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Real democracy doesn't allow any of that .
A little harsh there Phil. What Robert is saying must be heard in order for both types of readers, the ones who are afraid and hide behind hatred for what they fear and the ones who are not afraid and want to hear both or all sides of the story of who we are.
Though all that is true, American tech companies do all that we accuse this Chinese Co. of doing. It's all about money. We should be equally skeptical of those American made multi-national corporations. They are all scooping up money, they are not patriots. Some of those tech moguls support trump, a homegrown authoritarian wannabe. So, I'm not sure about why I should be more worried about tik-tok than facebook, or anything Peter Theil supports. And I am worried. What with AI and deep fakes and big liars, there's a lot to worry about. But, above all else, worry about climate destabilization. (I'll leave it to Mr. Reich to defend what he's in it for.)
We may be tricked into creating a new enemy, but I still don’t trust China with any promises they make. Their leaders are always caught lying about something with no consequences.
It's not that Mr. Reich misuses the word Communist: he doesn't. I just take issue with anyone who knows better who aids in false advertising & propaganda. Leave that up to the "Religious" Right, whose self-proclaimed title is as oxymoronic as "Communist" China. Make no mistake about it, China is raging in Laissez-faire Capitalism to the point of killing themselves & the planet at an even faster rate than the U.S.A. What an achievement! We better think long & HARD about which manufacturing we want to bring back & HOW we do that without importing those backend costs into our own communities, not that anyone has clean air, water, nor food anymore. Anyway, the communism word has the same nails on a chalkboard sound for being as blatant a fallacy as conservatives are either "Christian" or "conservative" as they work relentlessly to redistribute wealth from the working to the trustfund class.
All that said, and it had to be said, almost everything you need to know with respect to our economy is in the 2nd to last paragraph of this excellent piece, and even Mr. Reich is grossly downplaying the serious crisis we're facing in education right at the time true experts in their fields are becoming EXTINCT (I do mean this literally) & their positions are being filled by frauds who are sadly beginning to speak the truth when they say "well "we" don't know" which used to be, and in many cases still is code for "I don't know, I'm a fraud & just covering my own behind," but is actually BECOMING true because we are rapidly approaching a point where nobody knows anything anymore. Let that sink in, because that's precisely the track the USA is on. Take a good look around. The best teachers are being driven out, retiring, or dying. Then take a long hard look at who is taking their place at every level in every industry & no industry is immune, including medicine. Ever meet an M.D. who never learned BASIC reproductive anatomy, how to do a blood smear or a blood culture? These are the "doctors" who we're supposed to trust to save our lives? I didn't even mention the covid denial, yet WE ALL SAW IT! We're living in a terrifying time, at least for the field experts or just people with basic competence in their fields. I'm very grateful to the educators, like Mr. Reich, doing everything they can to try to save us from this fake it path of self-destruction we're on, so THANK YOU MR. REICH, but we have already lost real experts in their fields, the positions WEREN'T filled with anyone competent or with near the level of expertise, the experts didn't live long enough to mentor enough in their fields (or their students just plain didn't care, as they were too focused on their bank accounts) so sadly, the younger generation will have no choice now but to reinvent the wheel. How could anyone be proud of a legacy like that?
A lot of the China bashing and paranoia promoted by our politicians is to distract us from their failure to make America more productive and better educated. They concentrate on making their wealthy doners more wealthy instead of improving our infrastructure or providing the less wealthy with better educations and reasonable wages. China's governance is relatively stable because China came from a very low economic level of their people and they've been able to improve the lot of the people steadily. But they are now reaching a plateau of that improvement and their natural resources are not adequate for their population in the long term. They have to make alliances with other countries to obtain resources. That may not always be stable, especially if other countries get in the game.
You talk only in terms of economic and technological competition, but you ignore China as a threat to the world order. It continues to threaten Taiwan with military force. It is aiding Russia in its war of aggression against Ukraine. It helps to prop up the North Korean regime. And it commits large-scale human-rights abuses. The West was wrong to believe that a large-scale opening up of commerce with China would influence it to change for the better. Furthermore, there is a danger of the US and its allies being too economically dependent upon China. We shouldn't necessarily stop doing business with China altogether, but we should be a lot more careful about how we do it.
I really don't want to go back and forth on this point. Please take the time to do a little research on this topic before dismissing it as a rumor being repeated over and over. The German death camps during WWII were once a rumor - until they weren't !
I don't disagree with the fact that the Japanese were and did all that you say. The US took economic steps to thwart their efforts to achieve regional domination. The fact remains that the Chinese government is taking similar steps NOW to achieve similar ends. They currently have hundreds of thousands of people in concentration camps, have striped their citizens of all rights and are currently working with authoritian governments to support their efforts to do the same.
Let's stick with facts. Just because you've been hearing it over and over again doesn't means it is true (in regard to hundreds of thousands of people in concentration camps).
I’m thinking that the considerable difference between Japan’s potential military might back then and China’s, today, unfortunately may deem your take on the situation to be at least somewhat questionable. Sad (both that I could be right and that you could be wrong), but I nevertheless agree with and love the spirit of your argument!
Great. Now we need one of these pieces for Russia.
Yes! Robert - well researched and clearly said. I remember the Japanese 'threat.' It's so much easier for demagogues to say "we are being attacked!" Than to look at our own Education system and infrastructure.
Robert this is valuable learning that must be read by all who are just now reaching
Adulthood.
I have wondered for over 50 years why we Americans always seem to need a "Bogey man"?
Be it the communists, the anarchists, the asylum seekers at our border or now the Chinese. It seems highly unnecessary to me but from time to time I fall prey to the fear of THEM myself.
Thank you for this reflection.
How long to kickoff of WW III J
China will brush Aside the USA at the first chance it gets. They want what we possess and will buy or bully it which ever is the most effective method. The South China Sea is the battle ground.
The Russians are just as treacherous and desire to. Re-imprison most of its bordering neighbors. It’s the 1930 all over again with Russia using the Nazi playbook and China the new 1930 Japanese playbook. J
Lets start another cold war, all the better for defense spending.
The Chinese and the Putin Russians have already started a New Cold War. If we the USA NATO and the Australian Great Britain lay down we will be Run over and pushed off the Road of History without a second thought. Some People believed that Hitler could be contained with words and peace treaties. I didn’t work out so well and the same thing for Japan and Germany the AXIS decided to take on the United States, France,Britain .
The USA It’s not perfect, neither in its government or its actions, but the United States is far superior to the world envisioned by the Putin’s and the Chinese basically they want what we have and they’re gonna take it anyway they can get it in laying down just accelerates the process.
As I get older I realized there are worse things in life than Death. Ask any of the opponents to the Imperial Japanese and Nazi Germany. Dig up a few of the millions of concentration camp inmates and they will give a clearer prospective of a Dictatorship effect on persons with differences of opinion or beliefs.
As one of my neighbors ( a survivor of Imperial Japanese Battan Death March said ) NEVER SURRENDER ITS BETTER TO DIE THAN BE TORTURED! I was 7 Years Old and he died shortly afterwards from the effects of bamboo poisoning 13 years after the end of WWII.
J
I would accept that idea about Russia, but it appears to me that China needs us. They have investments in the USA, they (like the wealthy and banksters in the US) own lots of our debt. We buy Chinese stuff, who would buy as much as we do if we were not buying? And consider how many of our corporations make their products in China (like the trump family, who manufacture in China and other even lower wage countries).
Today the whacko was in Waco promoting his paranoia. The real threat from China is the Maga know-nothings at home who love their paranoid style and all the trappings of Dumpism. A clear-eyed foreign policy and military strength could resolve many issues between the US and China. Dump's whining about DOJ persecution won't get us anywhere but chaos, his speciality. In the current world Dump and company are minor leaguers. We need people in government who are from the majors. The Chinese are pros; we had better be too. Enough whacko stuff.
American tech companies do all that we accuse this Chinese Co. of doing. It's all about money. We should be equally skeptical of those American made multi-national corporations. They are all scooping up money, they are not patriots. Some of those tech moguls support trump, a homegrown authoritarian wannabe. So, I'm not sure about why I should be more worried about tik-tok than facebook, or anything Peter Theil supports. And I am worried. What with AI and deep fakes and big liars, there's a lot to worry about. But, above all else, worry about climate destabilization.
Paranoia is an integral part of the American psyche. Without an imminent threat from perceived enemies from other countries, we would be at sixes and sevens. I mean, who should we hate? Who should we fear? That's the American way. The last thing in the world the Chinese want is nuclear war with the United States. Mutual self-destruction is not in their playbook (even if it is in ours!).
It's extremely odd that you would offer a sermon on the dangers of creating enemies, when the creation of enemies is the driving force behind this highly profitable blog.
China is the largest dictatorship in human history, and is thus a threat to every freedom loving person on the planet. I agree we shouldn't be getting whipped up in to hysteria (another theme of this blog) but we should be clear minded about what the Chinese Communist Party represents.
You write...
"There’s a difference between seeing China as challenging American technological and economic dominance, on the one hand, and viewing China as potentially threatening America’s existence."
Except that any dictatorship with a nuclear weapons stockpile DOES threaten America's very existence. Wow, it's hard to grasp that this has to be explained to folks with your level of education.
And yet so many of our people appear to want dictatorship in the US. Anyone who supports trump at this point is rooting for authoritarianism in the USA. republicans who want to ban books and kill unions and privatize everything are not supporters of democracy. That's how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Real democracy doesn't allow any of that .
Agreed wholeheartedly!
A little harsh there Phil. What Robert is saying must be heard in order for both types of readers, the ones who are afraid and hide behind hatred for what they fear and the ones who are not afraid and want to hear both or all sides of the story of who we are.
No offense intended.
Though all that is true, American tech companies do all that we accuse this Chinese Co. of doing. It's all about money. We should be equally skeptical of those American made multi-national corporations. They are all scooping up money, they are not patriots. Some of those tech moguls support trump, a homegrown authoritarian wannabe. So, I'm not sure about why I should be more worried about tik-tok than facebook, or anything Peter Theil supports. And I am worried. What with AI and deep fakes and big liars, there's a lot to worry about. But, above all else, worry about climate destabilization. (I'll leave it to Mr. Reich to defend what he's in it for.)
We may be tricked into creating a new enemy, but I still don’t trust China with any promises they make. Their leaders are always caught lying about something with no consequences.
Of course our leaders have never lied.
It's not that Mr. Reich misuses the word Communist: he doesn't. I just take issue with anyone who knows better who aids in false advertising & propaganda. Leave that up to the "Religious" Right, whose self-proclaimed title is as oxymoronic as "Communist" China. Make no mistake about it, China is raging in Laissez-faire Capitalism to the point of killing themselves & the planet at an even faster rate than the U.S.A. What an achievement! We better think long & HARD about which manufacturing we want to bring back & HOW we do that without importing those backend costs into our own communities, not that anyone has clean air, water, nor food anymore. Anyway, the communism word has the same nails on a chalkboard sound for being as blatant a fallacy as conservatives are either "Christian" or "conservative" as they work relentlessly to redistribute wealth from the working to the trustfund class.
All that said, and it had to be said, almost everything you need to know with respect to our economy is in the 2nd to last paragraph of this excellent piece, and even Mr. Reich is grossly downplaying the serious crisis we're facing in education right at the time true experts in their fields are becoming EXTINCT (I do mean this literally) & their positions are being filled by frauds who are sadly beginning to speak the truth when they say "well "we" don't know" which used to be, and in many cases still is code for "I don't know, I'm a fraud & just covering my own behind," but is actually BECOMING true because we are rapidly approaching a point where nobody knows anything anymore. Let that sink in, because that's precisely the track the USA is on. Take a good look around. The best teachers are being driven out, retiring, or dying. Then take a long hard look at who is taking their place at every level in every industry & no industry is immune, including medicine. Ever meet an M.D. who never learned BASIC reproductive anatomy, how to do a blood smear or a blood culture? These are the "doctors" who we're supposed to trust to save our lives? I didn't even mention the covid denial, yet WE ALL SAW IT! We're living in a terrifying time, at least for the field experts or just people with basic competence in their fields. I'm very grateful to the educators, like Mr. Reich, doing everything they can to try to save us from this fake it path of self-destruction we're on, so THANK YOU MR. REICH, but we have already lost real experts in their fields, the positions WEREN'T filled with anyone competent or with near the level of expertise, the experts didn't live long enough to mentor enough in their fields (or their students just plain didn't care, as they were too focused on their bank accounts) so sadly, the younger generation will have no choice now but to reinvent the wheel. How could anyone be proud of a legacy like that?
A lot of the China bashing and paranoia promoted by our politicians is to distract us from their failure to make America more productive and better educated. They concentrate on making their wealthy doners more wealthy instead of improving our infrastructure or providing the less wealthy with better educations and reasonable wages. China's governance is relatively stable because China came from a very low economic level of their people and they've been able to improve the lot of the people steadily. But they are now reaching a plateau of that improvement and their natural resources are not adequate for their population in the long term. They have to make alliances with other countries to obtain resources. That may not always be stable, especially if other countries get in the game.