Shame requires that a person have a conscience and some sort of moral compass that gives direction between what's right and wrong. None of these people have a conscience that might cause them to consider or ask themselves are they doing the right thing. Worse yet, they don't care. Power, money and position is omnipotent for these people and until that changes there continue to be no shame whatsoever that might give someone pause to alter behavior for the good.
Right. Start from a premise that there is right and wrong. IMHO the examples Robert uses -- Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Ogles, George Santos, Elon Musk -- IMHO resemble the oppositional defiant behavior I used to see in childhood disability and in uneducable delinquent juvenile cases. Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) includes a frequent and ongoing pattern of anger, irritability, arguing and defiance toward parents and other authority figures. ODD also includes being spiteful and seeking revenge, a/k/a vindictiveness.
Studies from psychology show that shame often leads to withdrawal, isolation, and hiding, and is associated with depression, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorder, and impaired empathy, among other negative outcomes.
There always been an antihero archetype in our culture --. typically an irrepressibly earnest character forced to decide if he’s willing to sell his soul to the devil in exchange for justice. Everyman . Faust. In Wikipedia a picture of Clint Eastwood - the "man with no name" in Italian westerns, later Dirty Harry, and Thersites from Homer's Iliad depicts a hero who may lack conventional heroic qualities and attributes, such as idealism, courage, and morality.
We haven't -- at least yet --been able to show Trump cultists that their hero lacks these qualities.
Daniel, I like your connection of the examples Prof. Reich gave us to the architypes of literature. I had not thought of that and it helps give perspective. I agree with you about the negative aspects of shame. In fact, I have been thinking about it and can't think of positives beyond possibly keeping people from appalling behavior. As a teacher, I have seen the results of shame and they are awful, even devastating. We rarely had sufficient counselors and other support personnel to help students suffering shame dealt to them by peers and others "I thought you were gifted, why can't you . . .?" or "why can't you ____ like everyone else?" or "was that your stupid idea, I thought so!" and "You think you're so smart, well you're not; teachers just like you better." and so much more. From Mary Trump's book, it seems Donald Trump was shamed a lot as a young person by his dad, so I guess he can't feel it anymore. We see the results of the shaming and it ain't pretty.
The Making of a Narcissist -- Realize, Narcissus loved his reflection, not himself. Shame and self-hatred are at the core of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and the sufferer will do most anything to avoid the feeling of abject shame. They MUST solicit a reflection of competence and “superiority” from others, to provide a reflection they can love, because they hate the little ball of crap they believe is at at their core. They “don’t feel shame” because they perpetually run from it shoved deep down inside, having learned the difference between feeling shame and feeling pride, however false and unearned that pride might be.
In 1973 a fragrance appeared that shared a name with the then 2-year-old Elon, this scent was called "Oil of Musk." It had an earthy appeal that seemed to linger way past your initial exposure. I was seeing a young lady at the time that found favor in the use of this erotic oil. Even to this day when I catch so much as a hint of that intoxicating smell memories of our time together come flooding back as if time had stopped its encroachment. As a 2-year-old child growing up in this country, he had no idea of what was to come. Mr. Musk has become a central focal point concerning the war in Ukraine. There exists a series of satellites positioned in a low Earth orbit that boosts internet broadband capabilities. As it turns out these assets greatly aid the Ukrainian military in the defense of their country. Mr. Musk is taking the position that the continued use of this system will lead to the possibility of there being a new world war. Previously, I have equated the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine to that of a boxing match. I see this debacle as entering its third round. On a 10-point must system, I've given each combatant a round apiece. Both countries involved in this baseless struggle have been bloodied and are looking to gain an advantage. Russia is attempting an escalation in order to combat the aggressive efforts put forth by the Ukrainian military in recent months. Putin is struggling, his efforts in Ukraine have caused a tremendous loss of Russian life and equipment, not to mention the damage rendered to the image of the "Great Russian Bear." Ukraine's use of the Starlink system has made a real difference in the "war." If Musk ends the connection needed for the continued success of the Ukrainian military Russia will gain a decided advantage. The fear of starting WWIII is a moot point, because of the short-sightedness of Mr. Musk, the very war he fears probably has been ongoing for over a year, but only in its infant stages. The only real issue is to what extent will it be allowed to escalate. Putin will never back down and either will Zelenskyy. At some point, one of the two sides will have to realize further confrontation is useless. Who knows it might very well be a mutual decision to cease the conflict altogether, but at what cost? Ukraine will settle for nothing less than total control of its sovereignty including the return of all territories now held by the Russian military. For Musk to withhold any military advantage earned by the Ukrainians would only open the door to a Russian victory. With the whole of Ukraine in the hands of Russian forces NATO countries sharing a border with Ukraine would be next in the Russian crosshairs. How would this further intrusion by Russia be viewed as anything but Musk's WWIII? The actuality of a new world war might well have been prompted by the interference he objected to so vehemently. At present, our relationship with China is strained, and the last alliance we want to see developed is the one between Russia and the Chinese. The longer the war in Ukraine continues the greater the possibility exists for that conjoined alliance to take place. Mr. Musk needs to rethink his lack of thinking. Whose side is he really on? That of the all-mighty dollar?
Musk has recently shown that he is on the side of fascists, dictators & tyrants. I suspect that Musk, like Trump & a large proportion of congressional Republicans & media personnel, is being compromised by some sort of blackmail, which explains their pro-Putin & Trump stances
Your observations re Elon Musk are frightening, especially of what he is capable of doing re undermining the Ukrainian army. My first thought was: "having money doesn't equate to having brains" (well, not in the usual way IMHO). Being of Latvian heritage my parents' homeland of Latvia would just be a snack for Putin. The Russians have already shown the world how brutal they've always been by sending a good chunk of Latvia's population to Siberia on 14th June 1941. (Latvia has a population of almost 2 million, 60% of whom are Latvian).
As Putin couldn't care less about democracy and sovereignty he won't be stopped by NATO either.
That is the real prelude to WWIII. US combat troops in Ukraine fighting with NATO forces against Putin's Military. Hold on to your potatoes Dr. Jones, Short Round is at the wheel.
A short joke for ya, now make sure there are no ladies around, this is strictly a man's joke. So if there are any ladies in the room please leave , I'll give them a couple of second to exit. Coast is all clear. here goes. What is the difference between parsley and pussy? No one eats parsley. Ok, tell the women they can come back in now.
There is a vast difference between feeling shame and being shamed. Shaming is merely the exercise of power over the often helpless, denying them agency and enforcing group norms and discipline. Feeling shame is an internal process wherein the person recognizes that internalized values have been violated and they are not the person they hoped to have been. In the extreme think of the people who complied in the Milgram experiments, where they thought they killed someone as they “followed orders.” These people experienced deep shame and guilt. The assholes in Congress don’t have the knowledge, upbringing or intelligence to be embarrassed.
Jeffrey Engel ; Election deniers/stealers want to 'win' at any cost ; (think Santos/McCarthy). Birds of a feather with greedy corporate monopolies, and those who really believe that the shareholders deserve profits even if the makers (workers) are screwed.
Ruth: true! That anger has to go somewhere! Tfg has a persecution complex ; it seems to be catching. If only they could see their true oppressors, instead of trying to be tyrants themselves!
This is a response to the teacher who described the long-term effects of shaming.
You're talking about shaming the innocent when the one doing the shaming is really the one who should feel bad. Those people Reich is referring to are the ones who feel no shame, but probably should. Sometimes a little shame tweaks a desire to be better. Maybe there is a better word for what he is talking about.
Last week after the State of the Union message, Daniel, you wrote about the fact that there are rules, decorum and consequences for the behavior of the GOP at Biden's address that the Speaker, McCarthy should have taken care of. NOTHING. That is the problem I believe we are dealing with. The moneyed elite have been allowed to do ANYTHING/EVERYTHING without consequences. This has a corrosive effect on society (Trump, of course is the poster child for this) and last week a bullied 14 year old did commit suicide, airline passengers, and Americans ANYWHERE are behaving like they're participants in a gladiator show in ancient Rome or in the film Hunger Games. No, I'm not off topic....how can anyone be shamed when no one is held accountable? Crimes are ignored and the criminals walk among us as if they have DONE NOTHING because that is how society treats them, Bad/god-awful behavior is emboldened, again, Trump is the poster boy for that. 17 or more people in Georgia who participated in vast criminal behavior in the 2020 election are SCOT-FREE,every one of them. No one has shamed THEM. The US had another mass shooting yesterday in Michigan. No one is shaming or holding accountable those lawmakers who support guns or the NRA? Shame? The greatest of that is the deterioration of American decency, rule of laws, the common good, and so much more. There is so much to feel shame about.
"Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) includes a frequent and ongoing pattern of anger, irritability, ARGUING AND DEFIANCE TOWARD PARENTS AND OTHER AUTHORITY FIGURES." I have written a very long account of my DEFIANCE OF AUTHORITY, called DISSENT.
Starting in high school in the early ‘60s when I announced my Atheism in Christendom. I also opposed reciting the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag after they inserted that “under god” divisiveness.
But it was in the late 1960s with the Free Luv Sexual Revolution that I did what “normal” society would call shameful, and which I and my counter-culture peers saw as normal behavior. I smoked dope & learned that it was less harmful than the legal drug alcohol, which I occasionally drank in excess and did shameful things like driving my car. I shamelessly had casual sex with most of the women I met at that time and eventually with a few men. I shamelessly went naked in communal situations, skinning dipping with other men, women & children at a rock concert in the country.
In 1994 I shamelessly supported Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders when she said teens should be encouraged to masturbate to prevent other more dangerous sexual behavior. When Bill Clinton fired her I wrote a letter criticizing him and joined the shameless ppl in the press who said he was wrong and she was right. Perhaps recounting my own discovery of masturbation at the age of 12 in 1956, and feeling shame because we had no sex education that said it was normal adolescent behavior.
Oh wait, did I just shamelessly write all this on a forum board?
Nope. Actually quite proud of my "shameless" behavior as defined by others.
However, there are things of which I am contrite:
The Sin of Following
by Rob Boyte - February 28, 2017
Bullying - it seems to be a plague of our society and a given that some kids in school have to endure this cruel assault on their being by classmates. Gay kids, minority kids, disabled kids. Kids with any kind of difference or for no reason whatsoever are targeted by their peers for taunting or even fysical attack. And some kids, to escape this bullying have actually killed themselves.
...
However, I do recall with some shame taunting classmates. Perhaps I was the bully. Our target in fifth grade was a girl named Vickie and a group of us boys would shout taunts at her on the playground. In class we would do obvious avoidance as if she had the plague. IDK why. I don't think any of us had a clue - we were following the leaderless pack. Vickie was a stout girl and may have been hitting puberty before the rest of us, giving us a target. It was a cruelty of which I regret and fear we may have done irreparable harm to Vickie.
I remember there was a girl who was somewhat awkward in the grade above me & a disruptive kid in my own class, who were picked out as kids to pick on. They had "cooties", so everyone had to avoid them for their own self-preservation!
One of the great challenges of schoolchildren was to avoid becoming someone who was picked on by the other kids.
Trump was known as a bully, & you can be sure that MTG, Boebert, Cawthorn, Jordan, Gaetz, etc. were all bullies, too. But I wonder if some of them were the bullied, & are now taking their revenge on the rest of us. Bullies display no empathy, but the bullied never develop empathy, either, just growing resentment against society.
As always, Daniel, good discussion points. It’s a sad world in vast need of mental health services, as we learn every hour, almost. The study released yesterday regarding teen behavior (CDC) and pointing to girls in particular was not shocking to me. It’s been building and building for years. MTG must have been bullied in her youth. Money can’t make you happy, even though it may help.
And looking at photos of Musk before hair implants...I’m guessing he was too.
Robert, thank you for giving more voice to all of this. Daniel, and Robert, and the rest of our friends here...how can we regain decency? We must!
Regain decency. As I said below, ridicule. Satire works.
In court when someone is in contempt, the court must give a right to purge the contempt. Court sanctions can include stuff like public apologies, jail time, fines. What about: send someone like Greene to a comedy club every night for a month.
What about acts of contrition? Holy Joes say that they are necessary to receive God's forgiveness. The church used to sell indulgences. Get out of Hell free cards. Penance ran from saying a few hail Marys to flagellation, rituals like carrying the cross through the stations on Good Friday to the "Ride for Life" imposed to purify infidels during the Inquisition. Burned St. Joan at that stake.
Imagine if .Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Ogles, George Santos, Elon Musk were forced for spiritual contrition to publicly apologize. Where are the Holy Joes???
I've probably said previously that besides the Biden contempt issue, she has perjured herself a couple of times. I watched her testimony in the case before the Georgia state administrative law judge. IMHO "I don't know or I don't remember" can constitute perjury.
As Professor Reich points out "Many Americans love Donald Trump’s loutishness". In my view, which may be simplistic, humans are just animals on a spectrum where it comes to a sense of decency. I lean toward the "nature" over "nurture" view, so I don't believe Trump fans can be shamed or trained or educated out of anything, and I'm speaking here about the MAGA types that attend his rallies, not all Republicans.These people, the MAGA"s and MTG"s, are fundamentally like him at some deep level and admire his "in your face" brand. By his celebrity he has given them permission to emulate his behavior. Any vestigial sense of shame they may have is overshadowed by the glee they feel at being given permission to act like rowdy children. Their numbers protect them from accountability as individuals. Today's GOP has simply acted as a sieve to concentrate this element of our population and Trump is just the hand shaking the sieve.
True, many Republican politicians of late remind me of the class clowns & disruptors of elementary school & junior high. They have not matured since that stage. How voters can possibly think these people are material for Congress, the governorship or presidency is beyond me.
I get a kick out of how traditional and conservative that sane progressives have gravitated towards. Renaissance-era thinking. The sanctity of the free rational mind and the dictates of one’s own conscience. Value ethics, like you offered. The MAGA fools have driven off the Rosseauvian cliff. Weird.
My son played high school football with a boy with ODD, until the boy trashed the locker room in anger. I can't remember if he played after that happened. It was a while ago. I do know the boy went to ACES (www.ACES.org) a school for special needs.
NFL material. We used to have panels of three members of the school board hear cases involving student discipline. I was the prosecutor. If the kid was big, despite psychological expert testimony and my recommendations, the "penalty" was monitoring by one of our assistant football coaches. We had one of the best HS programs in the country. Virtually all of those kids eventually went to college on scholarship. Some went to the NFL.
I was also on the advisory board of a "reform school" that sent a few players to Ivy league schools. We also had a "Youth Development Center" in my home town for juvie murderers, arsonists, rapists, etc. A few of those kids got scholarships upon release.
I think that many of these kids WERE rehabilitated. We had "football study hall" for all players when I was in high school. The coaches checked on the kids -- at home -- and in some cases every night. The head football coach actually obtained legal custody in a couple of cases, one allegedly a murderer, who went on to be pros. My brother got a letter as a team manager partly for using the Driver Education car to pick up players who were in custody of coaches.
Chris, in addition to your strong points, I would add that the society in general has been working to lose any moral compass we have had. It is We the People who have elected fools like Trump, Santos, and Greene (and McCarthy) to offices that should be reserved for people who actually have a moral compass and care about the people and the future of our democracy. Alas, we have an entire political party that cares only about money and power, two elements that set aside the needs of the American people.
You are right but in perspective We the people didn’t elect Trump, the Electoral College did and Why we the people- the majority are so outraged by this violent, uncontrolled behavior.
Nancy, I taught 7 years as a Title I reading and math specialist for gr.K-3, then 19 years as the Gifted Support teacher for my district, gr.K-12. I retired 18 months ago from that job. I have actually been teaching since I was about 10, helping neighborhood kids learn letters and numbers. I have taught in many places, a range of subjects from document design to home management and cooking for newly blind people, from Sunday school to leading Girl Scout troops, from serving as a docent at the Museum of Natural History in Washington to serving as an AIDS educator. I currently tutor 8th grade math students as a volunteer.
I’m very happy to hear you are still teaching. Do you believe the loss of teaching our kids Civics, real American History, Government has anything to do with the hold of the Maga’s Caucus on The Republican politicians! Just asking, because I believe if people do not know their rights and responsibilities as America citizens we are not prepared for what’s around the corner.
DZK; ; That is why they make up stuff like pizza gate and murder plots. It has to be bad enough to be shameful, so they can shame their perceived enemies.
Implicit in the description of a psychopathic / sociopathic / antisocial personality disordered person is the absence of shame. I googled "hypothalamus antisocial personality disorder nih" and found "Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Function in Children and Adults with Severe Antisocial Behavior and the Impact of Early Adversity" at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6132769/ , which provides (in part) in the Conclusion: "... In contrast to these mixed, but mostly negative, findings for basal cortisol, studies investigating cortisol reactivity to stress have yielded consistent evidence for hyporeactivity in children and adolescents with [disruptive behavior disorders] and adults with [Antisocial Personality Disorder] or psychopathy. Nevertheless, heterogeneity within antisocial behavior and psychiatric comorbidity both appear to influence cortisol reactivity, as [callous-unemotional] traits appear to be associated with a more pronounced pattern of hyporeactivity whereas comorbid internalizing disorders predict heightened cortisol reactivity and impaired recovery following stress. ..."
Science has established that early childhood (roughly age seven and younger) adversity "primes" a person for childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder.
These are the people who "claim" to be fighting for Christianity!!! Claim to be 'evangelicals'! When clearly they are not. They are just manipulating Christianity in order to gain/retain money/power/influence. This is evident because they are not following the example of Christ. As a result, they perpetuate a false doctrine/example that lead/justify others to act in the same way.
While I do not dispute your observations here, I believe they are not sufficient to provide an explanation. Conscience and moral compasses exist within a cultural context; it is what gives them directionality. IMO, our culture has FAME as its central sought after attribute; social media is the message. The antipodal pairings of fame and infamy, honor and shame, etc. have been displaced by a pile of 'likes' and facial recognitions. I have no idea how our culture will change, but I am sure in time it will change.
Good thoughts, but breaking the cycle of reverence for money and power is a tough nut. Both rich and poor never have enough of them. Fifty years ago I came across two little boys playing with a puppy, one obviously the owner. I made over the little furball while the other kid stood aside, scowling. Finally he said, "My daddy's gonna get me a better puppy. It costes a hunnerd and three dollars." There's your focus, from the mouths of babes. It's the money, not the puppy. It's a culture that will do anything to preserve that value system, even to selling out its kids.
So how did such a mentality permeate our culture? It's a very complex issue, involving the old Protestant work ethic that hard work will be rewarded in proportion to one's' efforts (we know that doesn't work), indicating God's blessings, which are translated into monetary terms. Monetary wealth therefore receives the status of divine sanction, eventually regardless of the means used to achieve it. The necessity to constantly acquire expensive "things" has been inculcated into the general public in order to promote sales.
I was raised Protestant and hard work was definitely of high importance. The hard work mentality was as much for others as self. It was hard work in order to be frugal, help others, get educated, do what is healthy so we wouldn't burden the doctors and hospitals. It was not selfish hard work like we see so much in today's me me me attitude.
Absolutely. Our culture has been conditioned to place one's own interests first. That is the essence of capitalism. Any good or service is only delivered if requisite profit accrues to the deliverer. Conversely, any activity that promises to deliver profit, good, bad or indifferent, will be tolerated in accordance with the amount of profit to be gained. Contributory "hard work" is of no consequence (consider the relative pay of say, teachers versus hedge fund manipulators, who neither weave nor spin, yet are most richly rewarded on the basis of how much revenue they turn over) If humans wanted to work hard, we'd still be dragging loads around instead of rolling them about on wheels. The "smart" ones are the ones who work the system most to their advantage. The wealthy don't get that way by "working hard". They get that way by working the system, getting others working hard to make them wealthy.
I hate to dump "the wealthy" into one category. I know many wealthy people who are very smart, very moral, and very very hard working from a young age to past what I consider retirement age. And I think we need those special people. And, yes, there are also many wealthy immoral people who have taken advantage of people with fewer skills than they. Laws are supposed to limit the power of those who are not moral and may not even be so smart or creative except when it comes to making money.
There will always be people like this, but they haven't been this popular in our history. The followers who give them the attention they want are the real problem. As long as the shameless get what they want; they will continue to act this way.
I just sent this reply to another person who commented on what I wrote:
No, not hopeless. Power, money, sex and celebrity are the (predominant) goals Bertrand Russell identified after World War II (presumably analyzing historical figures of that time). The 2010 article in Current Psychiatric Reports analyzes the biochemistry of childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Understanding how early childhood adversity can result in those disorders provides a hopeful perspective enabling understanding and compassionate interaction / treatment of those (untreated troubled children) whose predominant behaviors are driven by money, power, sex and celebrity. Certainly not a facile solution to the (valid) social problems you identify, but a start grounded in science.
Sound reasoning, but who is going to administer these fact-based values? Not the churches, who are just as money-starved as anyone. Not the schools, where any science-based approach is immediately quashed by school boards under pressure from extremist anti-science factions. My daughter's specialty as a teacher is early childhood development in a somewhat less than progressive county, and you can imagine the frustrations she deals with. As you said, not a facile approach but I applaud the direction.
There appears to be a group of the oligarchy that feels they have attained God-like power and now are even attempting immortality. It’s reported that even Kushner is taking better care of his health because he might live forever and Peter Thiel takes the vampire approach by using the blood of young people (kinda scary he’s adopted a child!). I don’t think we can automatically attribute the values and ideas of the ordinary person to this group.
No, not hopeless. Power, money, sex and celebrity are the (predominant) goals Bertrand Russell identified after World War II (presumably analyzing historical figures of that time). The 2010 article in Current Psychiatric Reports analyzes the biochemistry of childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Understanding how early childhood adversity can result in those disorders provides a hopeful perspective enabling understanding and compassionate interaction / treatment of those (untreated troubled children) whose predominant behaviors are driven by money, power, sex and celebrity. Certainly not a facile solution to the (valid) social problems you identify, but a start grounded in science.
We are weary from constant exploitation especially by businesses, corporations, politicians and our government. Even the churches that have mixed politics into their sermons.
When we realize the responsibilities of citizens in a democracy and make sure we teach the skills needed (critical thinking, history, honesty, civics, and citizen responsibility), then we will become a stronger democracy with equal opportunity, morals, and good leadership.
I wrote about this too, and good grief, the critics that came out to tell me how wrong I was, and that Trump is actually a really great person. It was hilarious the way people tried to defend him, and make light of what happened.
The death of shame is right! Republicans have no shame anymore!
I am not so sure that only Republicans have a hold on shamelessness. This decline as Robert observes has been long coming in the public forum. As we become accustomed to toleration we suspend the underpinnings of virtues and values previously common to us as a people. This is much broader than any one political party. It just feels better to point a finger at one.
Except that the abject shamelessness we've witnessed over the last few years, particularly with the advent of Trump, is exclusively a Republican phenomenon. If you have some serious examples that are more than occasional outliers that suggest otherwise, please, do enlighten.
The tenor of your reply would suggest a debate rather than discussion. Indeed, even without responding any suggestion would be characterized “an outlier.” I respectfully decline the invitation. Thank you.
Jaime, OK, we needed to hear the "everybody does it" comment. Yes, significant parts of our culture are becoming "shameless," but not equally across the society, as you do know. When one political party has nearly entirely left their moral compass behind in favor of "whatever it takes to win," it is hard not to see this as a whole society thing. And, when our media covers the lying, cheating, and gaslighting in the same manner it covers honest transactions, it keeps many from identifying what is true. A whole segment of the Republican Party thinks Trump and Kump are honest brokers who actually care about them. Beyond their verbal and Twitter claims, there is no evidence of this phantom caring, but it doesn't matter. The lies cling and the truth is usually lost to them. I don't want the "believers" to be ashamed, just to wake up and use a little of the thinking gift they were given to see what is real and what is not. And, "everyone does it," in this case, isn't real!
Ruth, you make good points. However, there is shamelessness and skullduggery to go around, quite sadly. And sometimes groupthink that is dreadful. The Rs, IMHO, are worse on that count and kowtow to Trumpf like we never would. I think for the sake of the “soul of the nation”, as JB says, and it really IS NOT A JOKE...we Democrats have to figure this out.
My son worries about civilization collapse. I argue with him, yet don’t we all have nagging worries about that?
I once presented a panel on climate before the Center for Existential Risk at University of Cambridge. Some may wish to read Dr. Graham Allison’s book regarding avoiding the “Thucydides Trap” with China ten years ago. We are in that time. Right Now.
I’m hoping our inner angels emerge and this great American ship, indeed our world ship can be righted with kindness, equality, justice and fairness. We have to try. I’m sure you told your students that.
As CSN song said, “It’s always the darkest before the dawn.”
PaulaO, you are right about the challenges, but also about the hope build into justice, fairness, equality, and the rest. Those are so much more rewarding than anger and hatred, but alas, so many have known none of them. When one group, in this case, white men, have had control over everything for so long, it is hard to keep the fairness, justice, equality, and caring alive and moving forward. We have made inroads, but the white male contingent is fighting back, and they have most of the weapons including history, the law, the media, physical strength and willingness to do violence, and the ability to shame. Despite all that, I do teach hope, a challenge in a school district with around 90% of the students eligible for free school lunches, a pretty good measure of poverty. They deserve everything as does every child, but they don't get much and often don't see much of a future for themselves. Shame lurks everywhere here as does hope. How strange!
I also worry about the collapse of civilization. I think it could happen fairly soon if, for example, Republicans take over, Russia defeats Ukraine, China invades Taiwan, nuclear war or WWIII breaks out, or we end up in a civil war.
Even if we manage to avoid all that, environmental disaster, ecosystem collapse & mass extinction brought on by climate chaos & considerable other anthropogenic harm to the environment will eventually bring extreme pressure to human civilization. The way we have been handling it, especially the most powerful countries like Russia, China & the US, which is to grab & usurp all resources we can find, will quickly bring us to war, famine & the end of civilization.
The only way to avert that is to conserve, economize, share & distribute fairly & do what is necessary to mitigate, protect from & adapt to a much harsher climate.
Jaime Roman ; But Democrats did not attack the Capitol two years ago, nor did they stuff the courts with those who want to deny more than half the people basic medical care that was 'settled law' according to the 'judges' who perjured themselves in their confirmation hearings .among other things.
As I recall, six years ago many chanted “Not my President” despite the electoral results? My concern is that each side seeks a moral victory over the other such that we cannot talk to one another. I have avoided political affiliation because I vote the person and the issue without regard to the affiliated political party. My parents are from Nicaragua. I am a septuagenarian now. The media and political environment has slowly declined from the world I experienced in the 50s and later. But, at my age, I also take some comfort that focus on “outliers” does not define us as a people anymore than, for example, a focus on “criminal defendants” defines a people.
They all think they don’t need to be ashamed but if Kevin McCarthy would start fines when they start with their B.S. and I mean substantial fines, maybe they would be choosing decorum over boorishness. It was done in the past why not now?
Is this the low point in US society? Will civility return? Who is teaching children to respect themselves and others? And why did President Biden not stop his speech and ask the ignorant and disrespectful and stupid members to leave? In my opinion, he should have, while the whole world was watching. That would have shifted power in that moment, at least for that moment, and it would have made it right. Those are the kind of actions that must happen, constantly, in order for things to be made right. It should become the mission of every person with a social conscience. Congress is not a stage for performers. It needs to be restored to a place where there is serious debate and deliberation about serious matters.
I respectfully disagree. President Biden had no power or ability to enforce such a request; since the Fweedumb Squad have no morals whatsoever, it wouldn't have bothered the shameless hecklers in the least--indeed, letting them know that he noticed their disgusting behaviour would have given them even more motivation to continue.
I think President Biden did exactly the right thing at the perfect moment...laid a trap, let the stupid dimwits walk right into it and then he sprung the jaws of the trap shut. On live prime-time TV. It was a masterful demonstration of savvy in political timing.
I agree T L Mills, it was perfectly played with perfect timing. And, the next day we read again how certain republicans have 'hidden' this in their purposed bills.
Oh I know. I doubt Biden--an old hand at all the shenanigans that the R's can pull--believed they would stay "owned". I'm sure he will not let them gut Medicare or Social Security. The trick will be to make sure the American people know who is lying about the R's true agenda.
Janice, I guess it might have looked pretty cool for Biden to ask the disrupters to leave, but he won the "contest anyway." He got them to stand as a kind of promise to stop messing with Social Security and Medicare, which was and is a big deal. The Republicans whined and groaned when Biden mentioned the Republican plan to cut both as though it were not a plan they already had. He got them to stand against the plan that every single Republican knew was in the works, despite their childish protests. That is a victory, far larger than asking the children to leave the room.
I actually thought Biden's response was brilliant. He owned the freakazoids on the Republican side. He exposed them and made them look idiotic as they are.
Politics is always performative to some degree, though I agree it would be encouraging to see more serious debate and deliberation about serious matters, such as policy, bills that need to be tabled and voted on etc.
Good point. Their whines, moans, screams and complaints would have taken up more media time than the Chinese balloon and completely overshadowed Biden's excellent speech.
Brilliant! It might have focused some scrutiny on the basis of such action. Like him or not, he was the President fulfilling a Constitutional obligation. A guest in the House. Another option would have been, like any of us in another’s house to such a reception, to depart. That too would have had an immediate effect.
But Jaime, what he did was really good! Biden stayed and faced them down and got them to stand together to support programs people have paid into for their whole working lives. Republicans, at least a good number of them, want to deny us all of what we have earned. They got caught by a master.
It brings a chuckle to the conversation to recall our President’s mastery of that moment! Ahhhh, thank you for saving Social Security and Medicare, dear Uncle Joe!
Well, the proof will be in the pudding....i.e. how will they hide their real purpose in the flurry of bills that will be presented? The R's will most certainly attempt to disguise underfunding or similar tricks to accomplish their agenda without revealing that it is they who want the senior citizens of this country to starve in the street or to die from the lack of affordable healthcare, so they can throw more money at their donors. and the bloated military budget (but not to Ukraine, God forbid!).
Nancy Kanzenbach ; Sadly, The present Speaker has fired and dismissed the Sergeant in arms, I have read. He has also allowed members to carry weapons into the Capitol, it looks like ; not sure if it's going to 'stick'. I'm sure they were not allowed during the SOTU address.
I actually thought he did the best he could do for that situation. He engaged with these rude, unruly people (doesn't sound wise so far, but wait!) & got them all to agree, even stand up & cheer for maintaining Social Security & Medicare. Masterful is the way I & many others have described what he managed to do. His long experience in politics is not for naught.
American society has been headed in this direction for a long time and social media put it on the fast track. My only question is - is there a way out of this and where do we go from here?
That’s REALLY good, and could help with some people. Youth, maybe. However, her base probably is as confused as her. We think she makes no sense. However, I often heard during years of my public service that my job(s) were “part time”, “not as challenging” as the private sector, and, “you are all corrupt “. It’s little wonder people shrug, and just vote for incompetence in these highly gerrymandered districts.
The only way I can see for this to end up keeping our democracy (flawed tho it is) is to maintain our values and the important parts of our democratic government, and slowly make the needed changes. Opposition to the extreme right thinkers must simply weather the storms and not give up. Be patient, put up walls when necessary, and continue to support rationality. Any other suggestions??
I think what happened is that people misinterpreted shamelessness for confidence, thinking that these people who have no shame are somehow more confident, like MTG being a loud buffoon and the entire clown show of the republican party in some unusual way means that they are tough and more confident. But the two have nothing to do with each other and are unrelated.
Why do they do it? Because they finally figured out that they CAN .... without any painful repercussions. I can imagine hearing their thoughts when they behaving at their worst: "Whatcha gonna do about it? Nuthin'! That's what."
I'm not too sure about that. I'm fairly certain that even without the money incentive, those people -- most of them anyway -- would _still_ keep mouthing off the way they do now. "It's just who they are."
Where does this lack of shame, and the changing social norm come from? Many sources I feel, and most of those were set in place when these kids were very small. Many years ago, my mother taught school, second grade, and she told me that kids were changing, becoming less respectful and more disruptive in the classroom. She blamed the introduction of TV's and working mothers. When you add many of the stresses of today, along with lack of respect for others, and religious 'righter's', you get folks who are intolerant of anyone else who thinks different from themselves. What I don't understand is where did the hate we are seeing come from.
Wanda, where does the hate come from? I believe it comes from fear and feeling out of control. When people don't think they can control anything in their lives, they become frustrated and angry. When that anger is directed to people they can blame, the anger can become hatred which gains a purpose and a target. Right now, Republicans are pros at directing people's frustration/anger. They have been developing their skill for decades and the rest of us dismissed it thinking it wouldn't amount to anything. We should have known when Gingrich and his crew came into Congress in 1994 that we were in trouble. Their platform was to hurt poor people, people of color, and women and they accomplished all of that and more. I am still waiting for someone to tell me one thing Republicans have proposed that actually helped anyone but themselves and their rich corporate friends in the past 45 years or so. I have gotten nothing back because there is nothing. They will occasionally go along with Democrats on something helpful like the infrastructure bill, and a rare few other things, but that's it and it looks like they will keep that record going for at least the next two years with McConnell and McCarthy in charge of Republicans in Congress. And, they will feel no shame that they have done nothing for the people while claiming how much they "love" their people while grabbing money and power for themselves. None!
I believe the hatred in people came from the KKK originally, but it seems to have spiraled out when these forums such as Facebook and Twitter allowed people to sit behind a computer and say whatever they wanted to say on Facebook it also sent people into the madness of thinking that President Obama was going to come and take their guns which led them into a frenzy! Just like the Pied Piper played his pipe as he watched the people just jump into the river.. this is exactly what we are seeing now! Trump bought them to the forefront by stirring the pot and making it normal to say anything on national television and radio! I believe that many people are so wrapped up into their own lives that they don’t care about anyone else anymore! It seems to me that only a devastating loss of life will be the only thing that wakes them up! Trump opened up the gates of hell while he was running for office! He had given us plague and a war in another country! He took away common decency! Have a great day!❤️🫂
Working mothers went to work because most had to. Mine was a nurse, so my aunt (her sister) stepped in. We were fortunate that both my small town parents worked shifts to accommodate our schedules.
We still need to permanently enact the Child Tax Credit which recognizes the value to society of proper care for our future leaders and workforce members!
Yes. I've been saying the same thing for years. When bald faced liars are exposed...no shame. When embarrassing acts and words are revealed...no shame. Ends justify means. To me, the perfect symbol for this era is the diamond encrusted or massive gold crucifix worn as a necklace, frequently on a scantily-clad bod. The disconnects between humility and piety and conspicuous displays of wealth and sexuality tell us everything we need to know about our contemporary values. Damn right, I'm making judgments. It's the people who sanctimoniously condemn judgment-making who empower this amoral behavior.
I wonder whether part of the problem isn't capitalism itself. One of the ways Adam Smith used the phrase "the invisible hand" (our current usage of the phrase to talk about the power of the market comes from Milton Friedman, not Adam Smith) was to talk about the cultural forces that would prevent capitalism from consuming itself. One of those forces was the shame one feels from doing things that threaten social cohesion. What Smith did not anticipate was that capitalism would undermine and eventually consume one after the other of the institutions and habits that made up the invisible hand of restraint. Now billionaires like Musk and wanna be billionaires like Trump revel in flaunting not only social morés (don't be an a**hole), but in breaking the law and getting away with it. Instead of being ashamed, they glory in it. The media knows that the way to make money is to feature such people. The rest of us, as has been true for most of history, model ourselves on prominent people. A**holery grows and metastasizes like a cancer because it is rewarded. Healthy shame is outmoded. The new shame is poverty, not antisocial behavior.
Robert, great article for elevating shame as a discussion point in a public forum. You and I are contemporaries in age. Shame’s decline commenced decades ago. We have shared a front row seat to its decline. When each individual is now sufficiently autonomous to define, reside, and preside in that person’s universe, why the surprise? We used to appear to be a people defined by virtues and principles common to all...not so anymore. What follows?
Jaime, I understand that shame may have helped keep people under control in the past, but it was used against everyone who didn't go along with the rich white male agenda. I know that makes me look "woke" saying that, but if you look at history, you will know it is true. Women were shamed for reporting rape. Black men were shamed or lynched for wanting their rights as human beings. Mexican workers were deported and shamed after they had worked for months in the fields for us with next to no money because the farmers could say, well you didn't earn anything. LGBTQ people were shamed, dismissed, threatened, or even killed for not acting "normal." Poor people and people of color were shamed because they couldn't read while their schools were inferior if available at all. Our leaders were nearly all white men. Shaming one of them could lead to a duel or other kind of showdown. I suspect the fall in feeling shame has arisen from the loss of power of a lot of rich (and not so rich) white men losing the place they thought they deserved, to those awful other people who are clearly inferior and need to be stopped. The Supreme Court's overturning of Roe v. Wade was one of those attempts to stop women as their decision to end affirmative action later this year will work to stop people of color. They know their goal and have no shame that they are going after it with such glee. For Republicans and their surrogates, cruelty is the point and there will be no shame felt by them.
Some would say hanging out nude on a beach with other like-minded ppl is shameful, yet we have one here in Miami-Dade county as a place set apart.
Some would say having a same-sex partner is shameful, but since 2015 it has been legal.
Some would say having a partner of a different race is shameful, but since 1967 it has been legal.
Some did say being homosexual was shameful & disqualified one from military service and we lost some qualified ppl who were faithfully serving their country for that reason, but that has changed.
Americans' pride in their ignorance feeds a "no shame" mindset.
When American colleges proudly pimped itself out as institutions which sold degrees (beginning in the early 1990s) to under-achieving students, you know our democracy was in trouble.
As a former college instructor myself, I got tired of the pressure (from administrators, deans, colleagues) to pass unprepared or under-prepared students along to the next class/the next level nevertheless (can't have those high attrition rates, eh?). I also got tired of feeling like a prostitute pimped out by those shameless educational leaders who are no longer educational leaders but shameless sell-outs. Capitalism rocks; democracy and menschhood...not so much, eh? Whaddya think, Robert Reich?
There has always been a strain of anti-intellectualism in the U.S. That is: "my ignorance is as good as your knowledge" sort of pugnacious defiance. Richard Hofstadler's book 'Anti-Intellectualism in American Life' published in 1966 explains some of this in certain areas and to some degree. It's gotten much worse and indeed, a display of ignorance for these folks has now become a matter of boastful pride.
I experienced the same when and while teaching. It also became evident that as government insured loans rose, the interest in packing classes rose without regard to student ability.
R.D., as a college professor, did you ever wonder why your students were under achieving? Did you ever recommend that they get help? Did your college offer tutoring? Did you speak up to the Dean or other administration about your expectations and what needed to happen for your students to be successful? Was your coursework appropriate to the time and place to meet the needs of your students? There are a lot of questions I have when I hear academics talk about how bad their students are/were. A person's zip code in this nation can often determine their chances for success. In the same way, family money can let other students think they deserve a degree when they do nothing to make it happen. Those are different causes for lack of success and should be addressed differently. Both can lead to shame and it is not healthy in either case.
This is kind of silly isn't it? You seem to expect a college prof, who has absolutely no control over his students beyond courtesy and decorum for 1 or 2 hours a week to treat his students as though they never graduated HS?
Terry, actually, I don't find it silly at all. A professor does not have to leave his/her humanity at the door as well as the ability to empathize with students and stand on their behalf. I get it ordinary professors don't have much power, but they could have more if they showed they could stand with students for what is right and fair. I don't think that is asking too much. Those students are paying a lot of money and deserve help, particularly the ones there on overly expensive loans.
I have a neighbor who's 8 year old is out of control. His mother has no respect for those around her & has no class, which I define as having good manners, respect for others & the ability to make life better for all. Coincidentally, this child's 2nd grade teacher lives in our complex & I see her often. Before retiring at the end of year 2022 school year, she had this boy in her class. I spoke to her several times about his performance in school since I saw no values bestowed on him by his mother. The friend responded by stating the boy appeared to have potential, but no direction. He failed to submit homework assignments & apparently his mother refused to meet with the teacher, since she felt it was the teacher's fault, not her son's. I asked my friend, how will he pass from the 2nd grade to 3rd grade? She responded by saying her hands were tied & rather than causing a bad situation, it's better to pass him on to the next grade than have him repeat 2nd grade. I was appalled by this. I dont know why I was & thinking about it now, the statement "no child left behind" was applicable. But this child should have been kept back.
A little off topic, fast forward to yesterday, the mother & son came home & the child was crying when he got out of the car. Mom was on her phone telling whoever, that her son supposedly punched another classmate (a girl) which 2 teachers supposedly witnessed, but she didn't believe them because her son said he only pushed her. If this mother had any CLASS, she would be all over her son about this, especially when it involved a girl. I'm hopeful the incident caused a school suspension, but I doubt it will sink in with the mom because she does not have the tools to understand the road this child is on & to realize his problems are just beginning & will get worse. A combination of lack of intelligence, lack of respect & lack of class will produce an adult that will be just like MTG, Boebert, Musk, Tfg, & those who grew up as bullies & stayed a bully!
Alas, Marsha, it is neither lack of intelligence nor necessarily ignorance that leads parents to defend their child to the bitter end. It is fear they will be seen as bad parents. Their worth as a human being, in their own eyes, depends on their child being perfect and if he/she is not, it must be someone else's fault. Teachers deal with this a lot, believe it or not, often among the well-off parents, often the better off within a particular community. Seeking help for their child is often not, again in their own eyes, possible because it would mean there is a problem that the parent needs to learn to deal with. I have known of numerous parents who will not get special education help for a struggling, sometimes even non-functioning child because THEIR child is perfect. A neighbor when I was growing up had a deaf child. He learned to read lips while playing with the kids in the neighborhood, and was always in trouble. Of course, with no formal help, he could not make it in first grade. His father was so deeply embarrassed at having a disabled child he refused to even acknowledge the disability and punished him for not listening to him. All the kids in the neighborhood knew he was deaf. His mother finally registered him in a school for deaf children where he did master sign language and added to his ability with lip reading. Just being able to communicate took away most of the anger that used to get him into trouble in the neighborhood. Could someone slip a flyer about positive discipline between the doors of their house or tape it to the door so the mom can see it?
Ruth, so glad for the deaf child to be able to rise above his embarrassed father who would not deal with a physical disability. In the matter I described is not a physical disability, rather an emotional disability. Living in Duval County, Florida, one must be very careful to criticize or comment on one's behavior, particularly when it comes to neighbors. You never know who has a gun! I'm not a psychologist & won't pretend to know about positive discipline or how children should be raised & therefore would not venture into that foray with this particular mother. I only know how I was raised. Others around me feel the same way, as the mother is aggressive, a liar & a bully.
I’m of the Gen X era. When I went to college, Masters and PHD programs were considered for industries that you wanted to specialize in. It was very difficult to get through these programs and you had to present to your peers and professors at the end. Nowadays anyone can get a Masters degree. What are your thoughts of the onslaught of people getting Masters degrees?
Rita, I don't care where and when a person gets a master's degree, it's hard and exhausting. It often happens when one is working. Teachers must get one to get tenure in most places and other jobs require the degrees too to keep their jobs, like many businesses. There are more master's degrees because there are more people.
This shameless has even invaded the sports world. Nationally followed sports commentators are openly saying that in a national championship, in the most recent case, Sunday’s Super-bowl, late in the game the referees should swallow the whistle. Even in a case ,where the player openly acknowledged he broke a rule, a nationally broadcast commentator said he thought this should be the case. This broadcaster had picked the offending team and eventual loser, as his winner before the game. He even miss reported the penalty called by confusing it with another rule that would have justified the outcome desired. He did this despite he fact he knew fans had confused the two rules. Money wagered and lost might have been won if the referee only swallowed the whistle. Rules be dammed! Ratings and being an apologist for supporters of cheating losers apparently I are KING.
Thank you! I’m a Chiefs fan. The holding call referenced the right hand (holding the jersey), but nearly every angle online shows the left hand touching the waist. Even the ref who made the call said it referred to the right hand. 🙄
There has to be some way to deflect and distract attention away from the obviously shameful behavior of an Elon Musk or a Rupert Murdoch, or the very greedy who are a big part of our problems, like global climate disaster. To keep attention away from the obvious contradictions baked into our 'Democracy', like the Electoral 'College', 'Citizens United', gerrymandering and things like the filibuster and so many inequities that allow the minority rule that encourages the outsized power of the few, who would ride roughshod all over the many. The 'Sergeant in arms' was ceremonial, and was 'unceremoniously' dismissed by the very people who should be escorted out of the Congress. There is a 'permanent crease in our 'right and wrong' ('Stand' : Sly and the Family Stone), caused by money ruling us, not decency or the rule of law. So, we get distractions! Which serve the purpose of keeping our eyes diverted from the real problem. Obscene wealth that blocks justice. The ' Supreme ' court fell to the money. Not surprising that the Sergeant of arms' dismissal hardly got a mention.
Because of social media, it takes less time to change societal norms and ideals. Less time to lead a tribe and grow it, or even make it seem larger than it is. People who find power in nastiness can now easily become leaders, or the appearance of, via social media. It's easier to tap into more humans minds now. Humans have the propensity for being emotion-driven sheep-like followers. Combine that with rich leaders and feelings of being unfairly treated. A recipe for blind, angry unrest of a populus. They can't even see their eventual demise.
Excellent description of the way I see things too! Today is my first time reading Mr. Reich posting also the comments too and I must say I am impressed with all the comments on this thread for it is a wonderful to see decent people like you and others who see the true value of this post! Have a wonderful day sir and anyone else reading these comments!❤️🫂
As a clinical psychologist I can say that "why?" is a complex question. Here are some thoughts.
At its most basic level society is changing because technology overall has enabled individuals to be unchained from enduring personal contacts. We easily move from group to group, never putting down deep roots. Our psychological "constants" are fantasy-based remote possibilities as presented to us via electronic media. "God" and "God's judgment" have been left behind by many as monitors of personal conduct, and the substitute metric for success has pivoted to money and fame, not enhancement of social good. In this process your imagined potential ratings on TV or social media have become more valued than those experienced via personal contact.
Social mobility has loosened personal contacts, broken up families and made the images seen on the screen more exciting and attractive. Shame can be ignored in this context and more easily brushed off because it relies on the evaporating feeling of personal connectedness.
This is the same reason society is more fragmented and young people are feeling more estranged and depressed. Their identities are confused and they feel depersonalized without the stability of a socially cohesive foundation.
It's a broad social phenomenon in which technology substitutes fantasy images for personal connectedness. Shame does not play the same role in fantasy as it does in real personal community, so it is diminishing.
'...society is changing because technology overall has enabled individuals to be unchained from enduring personal contacts.' Technology is not generative or causative of behavior. It merely provides opportunities. The individual selects for actions given how the world occurs for them moment by moment. The occurring world is given by the (usually) unexamined context we hold that was formed unconsciously and without purpose or intentionality. It'd be nice if we could lay our problems on technology's doorstep and not be responsible for our actions.
Absolutely correct that technology provides opportunities. The point is that the world has changed as technology has developed and been put into place. Consequently the choices available are different and the psychological orientation that follows from that is different. For example, in world with no broadcast media, not even radio, there was no ability to make choices based on receiving information, whether true or false, from distant locations. In a world with broadcast technology such choices become possible. In the former the amount of total information re: distant events was minimal. Now there is information overload. In this psychological environment people can be fed misinformation and disinformation to a degree that they may be readily convinced of falsehoods. Lies and deception have always occurred throughout history. In the age of technology everything is multiplied and intensified. The change in quantity makes a change in quality, just as a fire hose and a dripping faucet both deliver water but the difference in quantity obviously changes the quality of it all.
The key element of all of this is individual empowerment without personal contact. In a small village one needed to relate to neighbors for help and support, perhaps collectively harvesting a crop or relying on a groom to saddle a horse or hitch it to a wagon. Now with automotive technology or harvesting machinery one can take care of all these things individually. Others must still exist in the background, such as the workers in the car factory of those who keep the phone lines open, but there is no direct personal contact with any of these parties. I just jump in my car and go. Thus, social mobility of a type unimaginable in pre-technological times. Shame is an element of close personal relations, whether used destructively in youth who are jockeying for social standing, or constructively in keeping adult society coherent. When close personal relations are not required in the adult world because we are served by all these technological wonders, we can easily function with a sense of anonymity, centering the self, dehumanizing others to one or another degree, and escaping from shame entirely.
(reposting as previous reply went below and broke this thread)
Absolutely correct that technology provides opportunities.
The point is that the world has changed as technology has developed and been put into place.
Yes, new tools present new opportunities. And the world changes with or without technology’s development. I assume your reference to ‘the world’ is pointing to a psychological environmental change you refer to below and not simply the movement and therefore change of the physical world.
Consequently, the choices available are different…
*Sure.
and the psychological orientation that follows from that is different.
*This for me is a leap of faith. New opportunities do not cause new psychological orientations. If they did then there is no basis to say there is free will. Without the freedom to choose there is no responsibility. Human being is reduced to a stimulus-response organism.
For example, in world with no broadcast media, not even radio, there was no ability to make choices based on receiving information,
*Choices based on anything are not choices, in my view. They are decisions. Decisions are based on something, anything, whereas choices are not. Decision makers have reasons for their selections, presenting the opportunity to have the circumstances or situations deflect responsibility for the selection. With choice based on nothing other than having selected, the responsibility for the outcome, good or bad, rests solely with the selection maker.
whether true or false, from distant locations. In a world with broadcast technology such choices become possible. In the former the amount of total information re: distant events was minimal.
Now there is information overload.
*Agreed, people are generally not responsible for managing the flow of information and are easily overloaded.
In this psychological environment people can be fed misinformation and disinformation to a degree that they may be readily convinced of falsehoods. Lies and deception have always occurred throughout history. In the age of technology everything is multiplied and intensified. The change in quantity makes a change in quality, just as a fire hose and a dripping faucet both deliver water but the difference in quantity obviously changes the quality of it all.
*Yes, not taking responsibility for the flow of information has impact.
The key element of all of this is individual empowerment without personal contact. In a small village one needed to relate to neighbors for help and support, perhaps collectively harvesting a crop or relying on a groom to saddle a horse or hitch it to a wagon. Now with automotive technology or harvesting machinery one can take care of all these things individually. Others must still exist in the background, such as the workers in the car factory of those who keep the phone lines open, but there is no direct personal contact with any of these parties. I just jump in my car and go. Thus, social mobility of a type unimaginable in pre-technological times.
*Yes, today’s post-industrial tools provide individuals with powers previously unimagined. I completely agree that most do not recognize or appreciate the total interconnectedness of things. If you take a simple glass of water resting on a table and trace back all that’s come before that has that glass sitting there, you end up connecting all the dots back to the beginning of the uni(or multi)verse!
Shame is an element of close personal relations, whether used destructively in youth who are jockeying for social standing, or constructively in keeping adult society coherent.
*Sure, it’s a tool to use and can be used well or poorly.
When close personal relations are not required in the adult world because we are served by all these technological wonders,
*Nope, tools are not doing the serving, people are.
we can easily function with a sense of anonymity, centering the self, dehumanizing others to one or another degree, and escaping from shame entirely.
Very instructive and insightful comment. Thank you. Now what can we do to reverse these trends? I think the fact that Musk’s viewership dropped should indicate that a significant number of people are getting sick of this. I hope so❤️
I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle. In all likelihood we will become more alienated as new technology emerges, whatever that may be.
This is the age of individual empowerment in combination with re-forming of groups. Insofar as accountability can be avoided we shall expect more shameless and narcissistic actions. At best, we must hold people liable under the law when they break it. At the least it would be important for people to know what is going on: how technology is remaking our social and psychological worlds.
Shame requires that a person have a conscience and some sort of moral compass that gives direction between what's right and wrong. None of these people have a conscience that might cause them to consider or ask themselves are they doing the right thing. Worse yet, they don't care. Power, money and position is omnipotent for these people and until that changes there continue to be no shame whatsoever that might give someone pause to alter behavior for the good.
Right. Start from a premise that there is right and wrong. IMHO the examples Robert uses -- Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Ogles, George Santos, Elon Musk -- IMHO resemble the oppositional defiant behavior I used to see in childhood disability and in uneducable delinquent juvenile cases. Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) includes a frequent and ongoing pattern of anger, irritability, arguing and defiance toward parents and other authority figures. ODD also includes being spiteful and seeking revenge, a/k/a vindictiveness.
Studies from psychology show that shame often leads to withdrawal, isolation, and hiding, and is associated with depression, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorder, and impaired empathy, among other negative outcomes.
There always been an antihero archetype in our culture --. typically an irrepressibly earnest character forced to decide if he’s willing to sell his soul to the devil in exchange for justice. Everyman . Faust. In Wikipedia a picture of Clint Eastwood - the "man with no name" in Italian westerns, later Dirty Harry, and Thersites from Homer's Iliad depicts a hero who may lack conventional heroic qualities and attributes, such as idealism, courage, and morality.
We haven't -- at least yet --been able to show Trump cultists that their hero lacks these qualities.
As for Kushner, he's an archetypal fraud.
Daniel, I like your connection of the examples Prof. Reich gave us to the architypes of literature. I had not thought of that and it helps give perspective. I agree with you about the negative aspects of shame. In fact, I have been thinking about it and can't think of positives beyond possibly keeping people from appalling behavior. As a teacher, I have seen the results of shame and they are awful, even devastating. We rarely had sufficient counselors and other support personnel to help students suffering shame dealt to them by peers and others "I thought you were gifted, why can't you . . .?" or "why can't you ____ like everyone else?" or "was that your stupid idea, I thought so!" and "You think you're so smart, well you're not; teachers just like you better." and so much more. From Mary Trump's book, it seems Donald Trump was shamed a lot as a young person by his dad, so I guess he can't feel it anymore. We see the results of the shaming and it ain't pretty.
The Making of a Narcissist -- Realize, Narcissus loved his reflection, not himself. Shame and self-hatred are at the core of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and the sufferer will do most anything to avoid the feeling of abject shame. They MUST solicit a reflection of competence and “superiority” from others, to provide a reflection they can love, because they hate the little ball of crap they believe is at at their core. They “don’t feel shame” because they perpetually run from it shoved deep down inside, having learned the difference between feeling shame and feeling pride, however false and unearned that pride might be.
Oil of Musk.
Donald Hodgins <silencenotbad@gmail.com>
10:08 AM (2 minutes ago)
In 1973 a fragrance appeared that shared a name with the then 2-year-old Elon, this scent was called "Oil of Musk." It had an earthy appeal that seemed to linger way past your initial exposure. I was seeing a young lady at the time that found favor in the use of this erotic oil. Even to this day when I catch so much as a hint of that intoxicating smell memories of our time together come flooding back as if time had stopped its encroachment. As a 2-year-old child growing up in this country, he had no idea of what was to come. Mr. Musk has become a central focal point concerning the war in Ukraine. There exists a series of satellites positioned in a low Earth orbit that boosts internet broadband capabilities. As it turns out these assets greatly aid the Ukrainian military in the defense of their country. Mr. Musk is taking the position that the continued use of this system will lead to the possibility of there being a new world war. Previously, I have equated the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine to that of a boxing match. I see this debacle as entering its third round. On a 10-point must system, I've given each combatant a round apiece. Both countries involved in this baseless struggle have been bloodied and are looking to gain an advantage. Russia is attempting an escalation in order to combat the aggressive efforts put forth by the Ukrainian military in recent months. Putin is struggling, his efforts in Ukraine have caused a tremendous loss of Russian life and equipment, not to mention the damage rendered to the image of the "Great Russian Bear." Ukraine's use of the Starlink system has made a real difference in the "war." If Musk ends the connection needed for the continued success of the Ukrainian military Russia will gain a decided advantage. The fear of starting WWIII is a moot point, because of the short-sightedness of Mr. Musk, the very war he fears probably has been ongoing for over a year, but only in its infant stages. The only real issue is to what extent will it be allowed to escalate. Putin will never back down and either will Zelenskyy. At some point, one of the two sides will have to realize further confrontation is useless. Who knows it might very well be a mutual decision to cease the conflict altogether, but at what cost? Ukraine will settle for nothing less than total control of its sovereignty including the return of all territories now held by the Russian military. For Musk to withhold any military advantage earned by the Ukrainians would only open the door to a Russian victory. With the whole of Ukraine in the hands of Russian forces NATO countries sharing a border with Ukraine would be next in the Russian crosshairs. How would this further intrusion by Russia be viewed as anything but Musk's WWIII? The actuality of a new world war might well have been prompted by the interference he objected to so vehemently. At present, our relationship with China is strained, and the last alliance we want to see developed is the one between Russia and the Chinese. The longer the war in Ukraine continues the greater the possibility exists for that conjoined alliance to take place. Mr. Musk needs to rethink his lack of thinking. Whose side is he really on? That of the all-mighty dollar?
Musk has recently shown that he is on the side of fascists, dictators & tyrants. I suspect that Musk, like Trump & a large proportion of congressional Republicans & media personnel, is being compromised by some sort of blackmail, which explains their pro-Putin & Trump stances
There is substance in what you have to say. Let's hope things aren't all that bad, but Musk is a jerk no matter how you look at the guy.
Jamie, I suspect those people are not being black-mailed but are black-mailers themselves! How else to you explain the on-going tit for tat.
I’ll push this through but I’ll need compensation for all the work I do for you!
Your observations re Elon Musk are frightening, especially of what he is capable of doing re undermining the Ukrainian army. My first thought was: "having money doesn't equate to having brains" (well, not in the usual way IMHO). Being of Latvian heritage my parents' homeland of Latvia would just be a snack for Putin. The Russians have already shown the world how brutal they've always been by sending a good chunk of Latvia's population to Siberia on 14th June 1941. (Latvia has a population of almost 2 million, 60% of whom are Latvian).
As Putin couldn't care less about democracy and sovereignty he won't be stopped by NATO either.
That is the real prelude to WWIII. US combat troops in Ukraine fighting with NATO forces against Putin's Military. Hold on to your potatoes Dr. Jones, Short Round is at the wheel.
Would it be possible for the US government take over Musk's Starlink system on account of national security?
That is an interesting concept. I think for the possibility of that happening the President would have to show cause. Which to me is there. Good idea.
They may have the authority to commandeer that system.
PG O'Brien ; This drives the fashion and status markets, no doubt : from clothes to cars and everything expensive.
Conspicuous consumption, the human flaw that drive that industry.
Nicely put! Great summation! tyty! : )
Thanks
A short joke for ya, now make sure there are no ladies around, this is strictly a man's joke. So if there are any ladies in the room please leave , I'll give them a couple of second to exit. Coast is all clear. here goes. What is the difference between parsley and pussy? No one eats parsley. Ok, tell the women they can come back in now.
Hey, brilliant idea to actually try to figure out what is going on with these people.
Don't let my EX-wife hear you say that. She'll make funny little dolls and stick sharp objects in it. LOL thanks .
There is a vast difference between feeling shame and being shamed. Shaming is merely the exercise of power over the often helpless, denying them agency and enforcing group norms and discipline. Feeling shame is an internal process wherein the person recognizes that internalized values have been violated and they are not the person they hoped to have been. In the extreme think of the people who complied in the Milgram experiments, where they thought they killed someone as they “followed orders.” These people experienced deep shame and guilt. The assholes in Congress don’t have the knowledge, upbringing or intelligence to be embarrassed.
Jeffrey Engel ; Election deniers/stealers want to 'win' at any cost ; (think Santos/McCarthy). Birds of a feather with greedy corporate monopolies, and those who really believe that the shareholders deserve profits even if the makers (workers) are screwed.
Ruth: true! That anger has to go somewhere! Tfg has a persecution complex ; it seems to be catching. If only they could see their true oppressors, instead of trying to be tyrants themselves!
This is a response to the teacher who described the long-term effects of shaming.
You're talking about shaming the innocent when the one doing the shaming is really the one who should feel bad. Those people Reich is referring to are the ones who feel no shame, but probably should. Sometimes a little shame tweaks a desire to be better. Maybe there is a better word for what he is talking about.
Last week after the State of the Union message, Daniel, you wrote about the fact that there are rules, decorum and consequences for the behavior of the GOP at Biden's address that the Speaker, McCarthy should have taken care of. NOTHING. That is the problem I believe we are dealing with. The moneyed elite have been allowed to do ANYTHING/EVERYTHING without consequences. This has a corrosive effect on society (Trump, of course is the poster child for this) and last week a bullied 14 year old did commit suicide, airline passengers, and Americans ANYWHERE are behaving like they're participants in a gladiator show in ancient Rome or in the film Hunger Games. No, I'm not off topic....how can anyone be shamed when no one is held accountable? Crimes are ignored and the criminals walk among us as if they have DONE NOTHING because that is how society treats them, Bad/god-awful behavior is emboldened, again, Trump is the poster boy for that. 17 or more people in Georgia who participated in vast criminal behavior in the 2020 election are SCOT-FREE,every one of them. No one has shamed THEM. The US had another mass shooting yesterday in Michigan. No one is shaming or holding accountable those lawmakers who support guns or the NRA? Shame? The greatest of that is the deterioration of American decency, rule of laws, the common good, and so much more. There is so much to feel shame about.
SHAME IS SUBJECTIVE
"Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) includes a frequent and ongoing pattern of anger, irritability, ARGUING AND DEFIANCE TOWARD PARENTS AND OTHER AUTHORITY FIGURES." I have written a very long account of my DEFIANCE OF AUTHORITY, called DISSENT.
Starting in high school in the early ‘60s when I announced my Atheism in Christendom. I also opposed reciting the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag after they inserted that “under god” divisiveness.
But it was in the late 1960s with the Free Luv Sexual Revolution that I did what “normal” society would call shameful, and which I and my counter-culture peers saw as normal behavior. I smoked dope & learned that it was less harmful than the legal drug alcohol, which I occasionally drank in excess and did shameful things like driving my car. I shamelessly had casual sex with most of the women I met at that time and eventually with a few men. I shamelessly went naked in communal situations, skinning dipping with other men, women & children at a rock concert in the country.
In 1994 I shamelessly supported Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders when she said teens should be encouraged to masturbate to prevent other more dangerous sexual behavior. When Bill Clinton fired her I wrote a letter criticizing him and joined the shameless ppl in the press who said he was wrong and she was right. Perhaps recounting my own discovery of masturbation at the age of 12 in 1956, and feeling shame because we had no sex education that said it was normal adolescent behavior.
Oh wait, did I just shamelessly write all this on a forum board?
You did
You know that for certain?
Obviously an act of contrition.
Nope. Actually quite proud of my "shameless" behavior as defined by others.
However, there are things of which I am contrite:
The Sin of Following
by Rob Boyte - February 28, 2017
Bullying - it seems to be a plague of our society and a given that some kids in school have to endure this cruel assault on their being by classmates. Gay kids, minority kids, disabled kids. Kids with any kind of difference or for no reason whatsoever are targeted by their peers for taunting or even fysical attack. And some kids, to escape this bullying have actually killed themselves.
...
However, I do recall with some shame taunting classmates. Perhaps I was the bully. Our target in fifth grade was a girl named Vickie and a group of us boys would shout taunts at her on the playground. In class we would do obvious avoidance as if she had the plague. IDK why. I don't think any of us had a clue - we were following the leaderless pack. Vickie was a stout girl and may have been hitting puberty before the rest of us, giving us a target. It was a cruelty of which I regret and fear we may have done irreparable harm to Vickie.
I remember there was a girl who was somewhat awkward in the grade above me & a disruptive kid in my own class, who were picked out as kids to pick on. They had "cooties", so everyone had to avoid them for their own self-preservation!
One of the great challenges of schoolchildren was to avoid becoming someone who was picked on by the other kids.
Trump was known as a bully, & you can be sure that MTG, Boebert, Cawthorn, Jordan, Gaetz, etc. were all bullies, too. But I wonder if some of them were the bullied, & are now taking their revenge on the rest of us. Bullies display no empathy, but the bullied never develop empathy, either, just growing resentment against society.
As always, Daniel, good discussion points. It’s a sad world in vast need of mental health services, as we learn every hour, almost. The study released yesterday regarding teen behavior (CDC) and pointing to girls in particular was not shocking to me. It’s been building and building for years. MTG must have been bullied in her youth. Money can’t make you happy, even though it may help.
And looking at photos of Musk before hair implants...I’m guessing he was too.
Robert, thank you for giving more voice to all of this. Daniel, and Robert, and the rest of our friends here...how can we regain decency? We must!
Regain decency. As I said below, ridicule. Satire works.
In court when someone is in contempt, the court must give a right to purge the contempt. Court sanctions can include stuff like public apologies, jail time, fines. What about: send someone like Greene to a comedy club every night for a month.
What about acts of contrition? Holy Joes say that they are necessary to receive God's forgiveness. The church used to sell indulgences. Get out of Hell free cards. Penance ran from saying a few hail Marys to flagellation, rituals like carrying the cross through the stations on Good Friday to the "Ride for Life" imposed to purify infidels during the Inquisition. Burned St. Joan at that stake.
Imagine if .Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Ogles, George Santos, Elon Musk were forced for spiritual contrition to publicly apologize. Where are the Holy Joes???
What if she said " Make me? " and is armed, with the bought up court majority backing her up?
I've probably said previously that besides the Biden contempt issue, she has perjured herself a couple of times. I watched her testimony in the case before the Georgia state administrative law judge. IMHO "I don't know or I don't remember" can constitute perjury.
Defamation can be a felony under GA state law. She is immune when she is in the well of the House, but has been running down innocent people..... https://www.businessinsider.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-cheers-on-alex-jones-after-defamation-verdict-2022-8
She is involved in at least one civil suit. https://legalnewsline.com/stories/635175385-court-revives-defamation-suit-against-marjorie-taylor-greene
Daniel Solomon: zHood observation. (and memory! LOL! ).
Trump's base just refuses to acknowledge that he is a bully and a fraud and is unworthy of their adulation.
Perhaps that's exactly why they adore him--to "own the libs".
As Professor Reich points out "Many Americans love Donald Trump’s loutishness". In my view, which may be simplistic, humans are just animals on a spectrum where it comes to a sense of decency. I lean toward the "nature" over "nurture" view, so I don't believe Trump fans can be shamed or trained or educated out of anything, and I'm speaking here about the MAGA types that attend his rallies, not all Republicans.These people, the MAGA"s and MTG"s, are fundamentally like him at some deep level and admire his "in your face" brand. By his celebrity he has given them permission to emulate his behavior. Any vestigial sense of shame they may have is overshadowed by the glee they feel at being given permission to act like rowdy children. Their numbers protect them from accountability as individuals. Today's GOP has simply acted as a sieve to concentrate this element of our population and Trump is just the hand shaking the sieve.
True, many Republican politicians of late remind me of the class clowns & disruptors of elementary school & junior high. They have not matured since that stage. How voters can possibly think these people are material for Congress, the governorship or presidency is beyond me.
And then there's the money.
always always follow the money
Yes, always the money.
Excellent analysis. Thank you!
I get a kick out of how traditional and conservative that sane progressives have gravitated towards. Renaissance-era thinking. The sanctity of the free rational mind and the dictates of one’s own conscience. Value ethics, like you offered. The MAGA fools have driven off the Rosseauvian cliff. Weird.
My son played high school football with a boy with ODD, until the boy trashed the locker room in anger. I can't remember if he played after that happened. It was a while ago. I do know the boy went to ACES (www.ACES.org) a school for special needs.
NFL material. We used to have panels of three members of the school board hear cases involving student discipline. I was the prosecutor. If the kid was big, despite psychological expert testimony and my recommendations, the "penalty" was monitoring by one of our assistant football coaches. We had one of the best HS programs in the country. Virtually all of those kids eventually went to college on scholarship. Some went to the NFL.
I was also on the advisory board of a "reform school" that sent a few players to Ivy league schools. We also had a "Youth Development Center" in my home town for juvie murderers, arsonists, rapists, etc. A few of those kids got scholarships upon release.
I think that many of these kids WERE rehabilitated. We had "football study hall" for all players when I was in high school. The coaches checked on the kids -- at home -- and in some cases every night. The head football coach actually obtained legal custody in a couple of cases, one allegedly a murderer, who went on to be pros. My brother got a letter as a team manager partly for using the Driver Education car to pick up players who were in custody of coaches.
Perhaps ODD is a unifying basis for gun violence? Along with poor self-esteem from childhood shaming?
Thank you for making this connection, Daniel. I’ve seen ODD up close, and it explains a lot!
Chris, in addition to your strong points, I would add that the society in general has been working to lose any moral compass we have had. It is We the People who have elected fools like Trump, Santos, and Greene (and McCarthy) to offices that should be reserved for people who actually have a moral compass and care about the people and the future of our democracy. Alas, we have an entire political party that cares only about money and power, two elements that set aside the needs of the American people.
You are right but in perspective We the people didn’t elect Trump, the Electoral College did and Why we the people- the majority are so outraged by this violent, uncontrolled behavior.
Not to mention having stood traditional values on their ears.
Ruth, may I ask, what subject did you teach and what grades?
Nancy, I taught 7 years as a Title I reading and math specialist for gr.K-3, then 19 years as the Gifted Support teacher for my district, gr.K-12. I retired 18 months ago from that job. I have actually been teaching since I was about 10, helping neighborhood kids learn letters and numbers. I have taught in many places, a range of subjects from document design to home management and cooking for newly blind people, from Sunday school to leading Girl Scout troops, from serving as a docent at the Museum of Natural History in Washington to serving as an AIDS educator. I currently tutor 8th grade math students as a volunteer.
I’m very happy to hear you are still teaching. Do you believe the loss of teaching our kids Civics, real American History, Government has anything to do with the hold of the Maga’s Caucus on The Republican politicians! Just asking, because I believe if people do not know their rights and responsibilities as America citizens we are not prepared for what’s around the corner.
And yet shame is among the first, most effective weapons of the shameless.
DZK; ; That is why they make up stuff like pizza gate and murder plots. It has to be bad enough to be shameful, so they can shame their perceived enemies.
And claim they're bein' bullied!
Implicit in the description of a psychopathic / sociopathic / antisocial personality disordered person is the absence of shame. I googled "hypothalamus antisocial personality disorder nih" and found "Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Function in Children and Adults with Severe Antisocial Behavior and the Impact of Early Adversity" at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6132769/ , which provides (in part) in the Conclusion: "... In contrast to these mixed, but mostly negative, findings for basal cortisol, studies investigating cortisol reactivity to stress have yielded consistent evidence for hyporeactivity in children and adolescents with [disruptive behavior disorders] and adults with [Antisocial Personality Disorder] or psychopathy. Nevertheless, heterogeneity within antisocial behavior and psychiatric comorbidity both appear to influence cortisol reactivity, as [callous-unemotional] traits appear to be associated with a more pronounced pattern of hyporeactivity whereas comorbid internalizing disorders predict heightened cortisol reactivity and impaired recovery following stress. ..."
Science has established that early childhood (roughly age seven and younger) adversity "primes" a person for childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder.
Yes, we know how to produce sociopaths and as a society we do it relentlessly. Especially the wealthy and powerful.
Get a load of this: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-alleged-liar-in-congress-just-dropped/ar-AA17lcd0
What is it about the Republican party ‽
Wie macht ein yid?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGz_eVHddfo&list=RDzGz_eVHddfo&index=1
These are the people who "claim" to be fighting for Christianity!!! Claim to be 'evangelicals'! When clearly they are not. They are just manipulating Christianity in order to gain/retain money/power/influence. This is evident because they are not following the example of Christ. As a result, they perpetuate a false doctrine/example that lead/justify others to act in the same way.
While I do not dispute your observations here, I believe they are not sufficient to provide an explanation. Conscience and moral compasses exist within a cultural context; it is what gives them directionality. IMO, our culture has FAME as its central sought after attribute; social media is the message. The antipodal pairings of fame and infamy, honor and shame, etc. have been displaced by a pile of 'likes' and facial recognitions. I have no idea how our culture will change, but I am sure in time it will change.
Yes. In the 1950s or so, Bertrand Russell identified that, culturally, Money, Power, Sex, and Celebrity drive human behavior.
Good thoughts, but breaking the cycle of reverence for money and power is a tough nut. Both rich and poor never have enough of them. Fifty years ago I came across two little boys playing with a puppy, one obviously the owner. I made over the little furball while the other kid stood aside, scowling. Finally he said, "My daddy's gonna get me a better puppy. It costes a hunnerd and three dollars." There's your focus, from the mouths of babes. It's the money, not the puppy. It's a culture that will do anything to preserve that value system, even to selling out its kids.
So how did such a mentality permeate our culture? It's a very complex issue, involving the old Protestant work ethic that hard work will be rewarded in proportion to one's' efforts (we know that doesn't work), indicating God's blessings, which are translated into monetary terms. Monetary wealth therefore receives the status of divine sanction, eventually regardless of the means used to achieve it. The necessity to constantly acquire expensive "things" has been inculcated into the general public in order to promote sales.
I was raised Protestant and hard work was definitely of high importance. The hard work mentality was as much for others as self. It was hard work in order to be frugal, help others, get educated, do what is healthy so we wouldn't burden the doctors and hospitals. It was not selfish hard work like we see so much in today's me me me attitude.
Absolutely. Our culture has been conditioned to place one's own interests first. That is the essence of capitalism. Any good or service is only delivered if requisite profit accrues to the deliverer. Conversely, any activity that promises to deliver profit, good, bad or indifferent, will be tolerated in accordance with the amount of profit to be gained. Contributory "hard work" is of no consequence (consider the relative pay of say, teachers versus hedge fund manipulators, who neither weave nor spin, yet are most richly rewarded on the basis of how much revenue they turn over) If humans wanted to work hard, we'd still be dragging loads around instead of rolling them about on wheels. The "smart" ones are the ones who work the system most to their advantage. The wealthy don't get that way by "working hard". They get that way by working the system, getting others working hard to make them wealthy.
I hate to dump "the wealthy" into one category. I know many wealthy people who are very smart, very moral, and very very hard working from a young age to past what I consider retirement age. And I think we need those special people. And, yes, there are also many wealthy immoral people who have taken advantage of people with fewer skills than they. Laws are supposed to limit the power of those who are not moral and may not even be so smart or creative except when it comes to making money.
There will always be people like this, but they haven't been this popular in our history. The followers who give them the attention they want are the real problem. As long as the shameless get what they want; they will continue to act this way.
I just sent this reply to another person who commented on what I wrote:
No, not hopeless. Power, money, sex and celebrity are the (predominant) goals Bertrand Russell identified after World War II (presumably analyzing historical figures of that time). The 2010 article in Current Psychiatric Reports analyzes the biochemistry of childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Understanding how early childhood adversity can result in those disorders provides a hopeful perspective enabling understanding and compassionate interaction / treatment of those (untreated troubled children) whose predominant behaviors are driven by money, power, sex and celebrity. Certainly not a facile solution to the (valid) social problems you identify, but a start grounded in science.
Sound reasoning, but who is going to administer these fact-based values? Not the churches, who are just as money-starved as anyone. Not the schools, where any science-based approach is immediately quashed by school boards under pressure from extremist anti-science factions. My daughter's specialty as a teacher is early childhood development in a somewhat less than progressive county, and you can imagine the frustrations she deals with. As you said, not a facile approach but I applaud the direction.
There appears to be a group of the oligarchy that feels they have attained God-like power and now are even attempting immortality. It’s reported that even Kushner is taking better care of his health because he might live forever and Peter Thiel takes the vampire approach by using the blood of young people (kinda scary he’s adopted a child!). I don’t think we can automatically attribute the values and ideas of the ordinary person to this group.
See also: https://www.historytoday.com/archive/months-past/death-countess-elizabeth-bathory
Chris R, your comment is spot on.
No, not hopeless. Power, money, sex and celebrity are the (predominant) goals Bertrand Russell identified after World War II (presumably analyzing historical figures of that time). The 2010 article in Current Psychiatric Reports analyzes the biochemistry of childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Understanding how early childhood adversity can result in those disorders provides a hopeful perspective enabling understanding and compassionate interaction / treatment of those (untreated troubled children) whose predominant behaviors are driven by money, power, sex and celebrity. Certainly not a facile solution to the (valid) social problems you identify, but a start grounded in science.
We are weary from constant exploitation especially by businesses, corporations, politicians and our government. Even the churches that have mixed politics into their sermons.
When we realize the responsibilities of citizens in a democracy and make sure we teach the skills needed (critical thinking, history, honesty, civics, and citizen responsibility), then we will become a stronger democracy with equal opportunity, morals, and good leadership.
I wrote about this too, and good grief, the critics that came out to tell me how wrong I was, and that Trump is actually a really great person. It was hilarious the way people tried to defend him, and make light of what happened.
The death of shame is right! Republicans have no shame anymore!
I am not so sure that only Republicans have a hold on shamelessness. This decline as Robert observes has been long coming in the public forum. As we become accustomed to toleration we suspend the underpinnings of virtues and values previously common to us as a people. This is much broader than any one political party. It just feels better to point a finger at one.
Except that the abject shamelessness we've witnessed over the last few years, particularly with the advent of Trump, is exclusively a Republican phenomenon. If you have some serious examples that are more than occasional outliers that suggest otherwise, please, do enlighten.
The tenor of your reply would suggest a debate rather than discussion. Indeed, even without responding any suggestion would be characterized “an outlier.” I respectfully decline the invitation. Thank you.
Jaime, OK, we needed to hear the "everybody does it" comment. Yes, significant parts of our culture are becoming "shameless," but not equally across the society, as you do know. When one political party has nearly entirely left their moral compass behind in favor of "whatever it takes to win," it is hard not to see this as a whole society thing. And, when our media covers the lying, cheating, and gaslighting in the same manner it covers honest transactions, it keeps many from identifying what is true. A whole segment of the Republican Party thinks Trump and Kump are honest brokers who actually care about them. Beyond their verbal and Twitter claims, there is no evidence of this phantom caring, but it doesn't matter. The lies cling and the truth is usually lost to them. I don't want the "believers" to be ashamed, just to wake up and use a little of the thinking gift they were given to see what is real and what is not. And, "everyone does it," in this case, isn't real!
Ruth, you make good points. However, there is shamelessness and skullduggery to go around, quite sadly. And sometimes groupthink that is dreadful. The Rs, IMHO, are worse on that count and kowtow to Trumpf like we never would. I think for the sake of the “soul of the nation”, as JB says, and it really IS NOT A JOKE...we Democrats have to figure this out.
My son worries about civilization collapse. I argue with him, yet don’t we all have nagging worries about that?
I once presented a panel on climate before the Center for Existential Risk at University of Cambridge. Some may wish to read Dr. Graham Allison’s book regarding avoiding the “Thucydides Trap” with China ten years ago. We are in that time. Right Now.
I’m hoping our inner angels emerge and this great American ship, indeed our world ship can be righted with kindness, equality, justice and fairness. We have to try. I’m sure you told your students that.
As CSN song said, “It’s always the darkest before the dawn.”
PaulaO, you are right about the challenges, but also about the hope build into justice, fairness, equality, and the rest. Those are so much more rewarding than anger and hatred, but alas, so many have known none of them. When one group, in this case, white men, have had control over everything for so long, it is hard to keep the fairness, justice, equality, and caring alive and moving forward. We have made inroads, but the white male contingent is fighting back, and they have most of the weapons including history, the law, the media, physical strength and willingness to do violence, and the ability to shame. Despite all that, I do teach hope, a challenge in a school district with around 90% of the students eligible for free school lunches, a pretty good measure of poverty. They deserve everything as does every child, but they don't get much and often don't see much of a future for themselves. Shame lurks everywhere here as does hope. How strange!
I also worry about the collapse of civilization. I think it could happen fairly soon if, for example, Republicans take over, Russia defeats Ukraine, China invades Taiwan, nuclear war or WWIII breaks out, or we end up in a civil war.
Even if we manage to avoid all that, environmental disaster, ecosystem collapse & mass extinction brought on by climate chaos & considerable other anthropogenic harm to the environment will eventually bring extreme pressure to human civilization. The way we have been handling it, especially the most powerful countries like Russia, China & the US, which is to grab & usurp all resources we can find, will quickly bring us to war, famine & the end of civilization.
The only way to avert that is to conserve, economize, share & distribute fairly & do what is necessary to mitigate, protect from & adapt to a much harsher climate.
Very well said. Thank you.
Jaime Roman ; But Democrats did not attack the Capitol two years ago, nor did they stuff the courts with those who want to deny more than half the people basic medical care that was 'settled law' according to the 'judges' who perjured themselves in their confirmation hearings .among other things.
That is the only thing we can do at this time.
As I recall, six years ago many chanted “Not my President” despite the electoral results? My concern is that each side seeks a moral victory over the other such that we cannot talk to one another. I have avoided political affiliation because I vote the person and the issue without regard to the affiliated political party. My parents are from Nicaragua. I am a septuagenarian now. The media and political environment has slowly declined from the world I experienced in the 50s and later. But, at my age, I also take some comfort that focus on “outliers” does not define us as a people anymore than, for example, a focus on “criminal defendants” defines a people.
The current GOP has no candidate I would vote for. Period
At present, I concur. I defer a decision until faced with a real choice.
The majority voted for Biden, even though there may have been some chanting "Not my President". I am unenrolled and try to make the best selection.
They all think they don’t need to be ashamed but if Kevin McCarthy would start fines when they start with their B.S. and I mean substantial fines, maybe they would be choosing decorum over boorishness. It was done in the past why not now?
Unfortunately, Republicans don’t own it, there is plenty to go around.
John Goodman ; There is a preponderance of evidence that " both sides ism " does not apply here, at least not at this time in history.
Is this the low point in US society? Will civility return? Who is teaching children to respect themselves and others? And why did President Biden not stop his speech and ask the ignorant and disrespectful and stupid members to leave? In my opinion, he should have, while the whole world was watching. That would have shifted power in that moment, at least for that moment, and it would have made it right. Those are the kind of actions that must happen, constantly, in order for things to be made right. It should become the mission of every person with a social conscience. Congress is not a stage for performers. It needs to be restored to a place where there is serious debate and deliberation about serious matters.
I respectfully disagree. President Biden had no power or ability to enforce such a request; since the Fweedumb Squad have no morals whatsoever, it wouldn't have bothered the shameless hecklers in the least--indeed, letting them know that he noticed their disgusting behaviour would have given them even more motivation to continue.
I think President Biden did exactly the right thing at the perfect moment...laid a trap, let the stupid dimwits walk right into it and then he sprung the jaws of the trap shut. On live prime-time TV. It was a masterful demonstration of savvy in political timing.
I agree T L Mills, it was perfectly played with perfect timing. And, the next day we read again how certain republicans have 'hidden' this in their purposed bills.
Oh I know. I doubt Biden--an old hand at all the shenanigans that the R's can pull--believed they would stay "owned". I'm sure he will not let them gut Medicare or Social Security. The trick will be to make sure the American people know who is lying about the R's true agenda.
Oh yeah, the fweedum caucas should be named the circus caucas
Excuse me the Circus caucus
Yes! I agree ...it was beautifully done!
Not sure the two tactics are mutually exclusive.
Janice, I guess it might have looked pretty cool for Biden to ask the disrupters to leave, but he won the "contest anyway." He got them to stand as a kind of promise to stop messing with Social Security and Medicare, which was and is a big deal. The Republicans whined and groaned when Biden mentioned the Republican plan to cut both as though it were not a plan they already had. He got them to stand against the plan that every single Republican knew was in the works, despite their childish protests. That is a victory, far larger than asking the children to leave the room.
If it sticks. You know, the honor thing. These people don't seem to have that. A traitor is a traitor. We will see.
I actually thought Biden's response was brilliant. He owned the freakazoids on the Republican side. He exposed them and made them look idiotic as they are.
Politics is always performative to some degree, though I agree it would be encouraging to see more serious debate and deliberation about serious matters, such as policy, bills that need to be tabled and voted on etc.
Janice Valverde; I am glad that President Biden did not give them the spotlight.
Good point. Their whines, moans, screams and complaints would have taken up more media time than the Chinese balloon and completely overshadowed Biden's excellent speech.
TL Mills ; This is not Biden's first rodeo. That is why he knew enough not to attempt to push back. No doubt.
Speaker of the House is Kevin McCarthy. It's his Caucus and his
responsibility to keep them in line.
Ha! He can't do it. They have the
power over him...just 1 vote and he's gone.
IKR...how stupid of him to give them that power. If that is what he had to do to be Speaker of the House...in what way is it even worth it?
Apparently ol' Kev, only cares about the the appearance of power and not about the actual task of Speakership.
Brilliant! It might have focused some scrutiny on the basis of such action. Like him or not, he was the President fulfilling a Constitutional obligation. A guest in the House. Another option would have been, like any of us in another’s house to such a reception, to depart. That too would have had an immediate effect.
But Jaime, what he did was really good! Biden stayed and faced them down and got them to stand together to support programs people have paid into for their whole working lives. Republicans, at least a good number of them, want to deny us all of what we have earned. They got caught by a master.
It brings a chuckle to the conversation to recall our President’s mastery of that moment! Ahhhh, thank you for saving Social Security and Medicare, dear Uncle Joe!
Well, the proof will be in the pudding....i.e. how will they hide their real purpose in the flurry of bills that will be presented? The R's will most certainly attempt to disguise underfunding or similar tricks to accomplish their agenda without revealing that it is they who want the senior citizens of this country to starve in the street or to die from the lack of affordable healthcare, so they can throw more money at their donors. and the bloated military budget (but not to Ukraine, God forbid!).
Some are already doing it.......Ron Johnson's bill hides it pretty good.......everything must be renewed every 5 years!
That's a different subject altogether. But I do agree that what he did there was very smart.
Thats’s the Sargent of Arms duty, maybe he needs to be backed up by the capital police to remove all that trashy distraction.
Nancy Kanzenbach ; Sadly, The present Speaker has fired and dismissed the Sergeant in arms, I have read. He has also allowed members to carry weapons into the Capitol, it looks like ; not sure if it's going to 'stick'. I'm sure they were not allowed during the SOTU address.
Biden was an invited guest of Congress and McCarthy. He should have asked them to leave.
McCarthy should have asked those dimwits to leave.
I just wished ANYONE would have stood up, turned around and said sit down and shut up
I actually thought he did the best he could do for that situation. He engaged with these rude, unruly people (doesn't sound wise so far, but wait!) & got them all to agree, even stand up & cheer for maintaining Social Security & Medicare. Masterful is the way I & many others have described what he managed to do. His long experience in politics is not for naught.
Jaime Ramirez ; My sentiments exactly!
😄 haha. I don't need/want balloons!
American society has been headed in this direction for a long time and social media put it on the fast track. My only question is - is there a way out of this and where do we go from here?
Satire. These whackos are grist for comedy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X3QO6sATPA
That’s REALLY good, and could help with some people. Youth, maybe. However, her base probably is as confused as her. We think she makes no sense. However, I often heard during years of my public service that my job(s) were “part time”, “not as challenging” as the private sector, and, “you are all corrupt “. It’s little wonder people shrug, and just vote for incompetence in these highly gerrymandered districts.
Thanks The Daily Show is hitting hard as well as always funny.
The only way I can see for this to end up keeping our democracy (flawed tho it is) is to maintain our values and the important parts of our democratic government, and slowly make the needed changes. Opposition to the extreme right thinkers must simply weather the storms and not give up. Be patient, put up walls when necessary, and continue to support rationality. Any other suggestions??
I think what happened is that people misinterpreted shamelessness for confidence, thinking that these people who have no shame are somehow more confident, like MTG being a loud buffoon and the entire clown show of the republican party in some unusual way means that they are tough and more confident. But the two have nothing to do with each other and are unrelated.
Why do they do it? Because they finally figured out that they CAN .... without any painful repercussions. I can imagine hearing their thoughts when they behaving at their worst: "Whatcha gonna do about it? Nuthin'! That's what."
They receive donations. Psychological reinforcement.
And the donations are definitely the goal. Definitely.
I'm not too sure about that. I'm fairly certain that even without the money incentive, those people -- most of them anyway -- would _still_ keep mouthing off the way they do now. "It's just who they are."
Where does this lack of shame, and the changing social norm come from? Many sources I feel, and most of those were set in place when these kids were very small. Many years ago, my mother taught school, second grade, and she told me that kids were changing, becoming less respectful and more disruptive in the classroom. She blamed the introduction of TV's and working mothers. When you add many of the stresses of today, along with lack of respect for others, and religious 'righter's', you get folks who are intolerant of anyone else who thinks different from themselves. What I don't understand is where did the hate we are seeing come from.
Wanda, where does the hate come from? I believe it comes from fear and feeling out of control. When people don't think they can control anything in their lives, they become frustrated and angry. When that anger is directed to people they can blame, the anger can become hatred which gains a purpose and a target. Right now, Republicans are pros at directing people's frustration/anger. They have been developing their skill for decades and the rest of us dismissed it thinking it wouldn't amount to anything. We should have known when Gingrich and his crew came into Congress in 1994 that we were in trouble. Their platform was to hurt poor people, people of color, and women and they accomplished all of that and more. I am still waiting for someone to tell me one thing Republicans have proposed that actually helped anyone but themselves and their rich corporate friends in the past 45 years or so. I have gotten nothing back because there is nothing. They will occasionally go along with Democrats on something helpful like the infrastructure bill, and a rare few other things, but that's it and it looks like they will keep that record going for at least the next two years with McConnell and McCarthy in charge of Republicans in Congress. And, they will feel no shame that they have done nothing for the people while claiming how much they "love" their people while grabbing money and power for themselves. None!
I believe the hatred in people came from the KKK originally, but it seems to have spiraled out when these forums such as Facebook and Twitter allowed people to sit behind a computer and say whatever they wanted to say on Facebook it also sent people into the madness of thinking that President Obama was going to come and take their guns which led them into a frenzy! Just like the Pied Piper played his pipe as he watched the people just jump into the river.. this is exactly what we are seeing now! Trump bought them to the forefront by stirring the pot and making it normal to say anything on national television and radio! I believe that many people are so wrapped up into their own lives that they don’t care about anyone else anymore! It seems to me that only a devastating loss of life will be the only thing that wakes them up! Trump opened up the gates of hell while he was running for office! He had given us plague and a war in another country! He took away common decency! Have a great day!❤️🫂
Working mothers went to work because most had to. Mine was a nurse, so my aunt (her sister) stepped in. We were fortunate that both my small town parents worked shifts to accommodate our schedules.
We still need to permanently enact the Child Tax Credit which recognizes the value to society of proper care for our future leaders and workforce members!
God bless you for this, Wanda.
Yes. I've been saying the same thing for years. When bald faced liars are exposed...no shame. When embarrassing acts and words are revealed...no shame. Ends justify means. To me, the perfect symbol for this era is the diamond encrusted or massive gold crucifix worn as a necklace, frequently on a scantily-clad bod. The disconnects between humility and piety and conspicuous displays of wealth and sexuality tell us everything we need to know about our contemporary values. Damn right, I'm making judgments. It's the people who sanctimoniously condemn judgment-making who empower this amoral behavior.
Has to be consequences.
I wonder whether part of the problem isn't capitalism itself. One of the ways Adam Smith used the phrase "the invisible hand" (our current usage of the phrase to talk about the power of the market comes from Milton Friedman, not Adam Smith) was to talk about the cultural forces that would prevent capitalism from consuming itself. One of those forces was the shame one feels from doing things that threaten social cohesion. What Smith did not anticipate was that capitalism would undermine and eventually consume one after the other of the institutions and habits that made up the invisible hand of restraint. Now billionaires like Musk and wanna be billionaires like Trump revel in flaunting not only social morés (don't be an a**hole), but in breaking the law and getting away with it. Instead of being ashamed, they glory in it. The media knows that the way to make money is to feature such people. The rest of us, as has been true for most of history, model ourselves on prominent people. A**holery grows and metastasizes like a cancer because it is rewarded. Healthy shame is outmoded. The new shame is poverty, not antisocial behavior.
I've banged on for months about that. It's as inherently as disruptive to a democratic society as is its opposite number.
Robert, great article for elevating shame as a discussion point in a public forum. You and I are contemporaries in age. Shame’s decline commenced decades ago. We have shared a front row seat to its decline. When each individual is now sufficiently autonomous to define, reside, and preside in that person’s universe, why the surprise? We used to appear to be a people defined by virtues and principles common to all...not so anymore. What follows?
Jaime, I understand that shame may have helped keep people under control in the past, but it was used against everyone who didn't go along with the rich white male agenda. I know that makes me look "woke" saying that, but if you look at history, you will know it is true. Women were shamed for reporting rape. Black men were shamed or lynched for wanting their rights as human beings. Mexican workers were deported and shamed after they had worked for months in the fields for us with next to no money because the farmers could say, well you didn't earn anything. LGBTQ people were shamed, dismissed, threatened, or even killed for not acting "normal." Poor people and people of color were shamed because they couldn't read while their schools were inferior if available at all. Our leaders were nearly all white men. Shaming one of them could lead to a duel or other kind of showdown. I suspect the fall in feeling shame has arisen from the loss of power of a lot of rich (and not so rich) white men losing the place they thought they deserved, to those awful other people who are clearly inferior and need to be stopped. The Supreme Court's overturning of Roe v. Wade was one of those attempts to stop women as their decision to end affirmative action later this year will work to stop people of color. They know their goal and have no shame that they are going after it with such glee. For Republicans and their surrogates, cruelty is the point and there will be no shame felt by them.
Some would say hanging out nude on a beach with other like-minded ppl is shameful, yet we have one here in Miami-Dade county as a place set apart.
Some would say having a same-sex partner is shameful, but since 2015 it has been legal.
Some would say having a partner of a different race is shameful, but since 1967 it has been legal.
Some did say being homosexual was shameful & disqualified one from military service and we lost some qualified ppl who were faithfully serving their country for that reason, but that has changed.
The paradox is that conscience is the power behind progressive movements.
Americans' pride in their ignorance feeds a "no shame" mindset.
When American colleges proudly pimped itself out as institutions which sold degrees (beginning in the early 1990s) to under-achieving students, you know our democracy was in trouble.
As a former college instructor myself, I got tired of the pressure (from administrators, deans, colleagues) to pass unprepared or under-prepared students along to the next class/the next level nevertheless (can't have those high attrition rates, eh?). I also got tired of feeling like a prostitute pimped out by those shameless educational leaders who are no longer educational leaders but shameless sell-outs. Capitalism rocks; democracy and menschhood...not so much, eh? Whaddya think, Robert Reich?
There has always been a strain of anti-intellectualism in the U.S. That is: "my ignorance is as good as your knowledge" sort of pugnacious defiance. Richard Hofstadler's book 'Anti-Intellectualism in American Life' published in 1966 explains some of this in certain areas and to some degree. It's gotten much worse and indeed, a display of ignorance for these folks has now become a matter of boastful pride.
Like the "Know-Nothing" Party?
Corruption by any other name still reeks. The bottom line has become the only line that matters.
You’re not arguing against “free” market completion, are you? A little respect for the Invisible Hand!
It appears the 'Invisible Hand' is as corrupt as they come.
I experienced the same when and while teaching. It also became evident that as government insured loans rose, the interest in packing classes rose without regard to student ability.
R.D., as a college professor, did you ever wonder why your students were under achieving? Did you ever recommend that they get help? Did your college offer tutoring? Did you speak up to the Dean or other administration about your expectations and what needed to happen for your students to be successful? Was your coursework appropriate to the time and place to meet the needs of your students? There are a lot of questions I have when I hear academics talk about how bad their students are/were. A person's zip code in this nation can often determine their chances for success. In the same way, family money can let other students think they deserve a degree when they do nothing to make it happen. Those are different causes for lack of success and should be addressed differently. Both can lead to shame and it is not healthy in either case.
This is kind of silly isn't it? You seem to expect a college prof, who has absolutely no control over his students beyond courtesy and decorum for 1 or 2 hours a week to treat his students as though they never graduated HS?
Terry, actually, I don't find it silly at all. A professor does not have to leave his/her humanity at the door as well as the ability to empathize with students and stand on their behalf. I get it ordinary professors don't have much power, but they could have more if they showed they could stand with students for what is right and fair. I don't think that is asking too much. Those students are paying a lot of money and deserve help, particularly the ones there on overly expensive loans.
I have a neighbor who's 8 year old is out of control. His mother has no respect for those around her & has no class, which I define as having good manners, respect for others & the ability to make life better for all. Coincidentally, this child's 2nd grade teacher lives in our complex & I see her often. Before retiring at the end of year 2022 school year, she had this boy in her class. I spoke to her several times about his performance in school since I saw no values bestowed on him by his mother. The friend responded by stating the boy appeared to have potential, but no direction. He failed to submit homework assignments & apparently his mother refused to meet with the teacher, since she felt it was the teacher's fault, not her son's. I asked my friend, how will he pass from the 2nd grade to 3rd grade? She responded by saying her hands were tied & rather than causing a bad situation, it's better to pass him on to the next grade than have him repeat 2nd grade. I was appalled by this. I dont know why I was & thinking about it now, the statement "no child left behind" was applicable. But this child should have been kept back.
A little off topic, fast forward to yesterday, the mother & son came home & the child was crying when he got out of the car. Mom was on her phone telling whoever, that her son supposedly punched another classmate (a girl) which 2 teachers supposedly witnessed, but she didn't believe them because her son said he only pushed her. If this mother had any CLASS, she would be all over her son about this, especially when it involved a girl. I'm hopeful the incident caused a school suspension, but I doubt it will sink in with the mom because she does not have the tools to understand the road this child is on & to realize his problems are just beginning & will get worse. A combination of lack of intelligence, lack of respect & lack of class will produce an adult that will be just like MTG, Boebert, Musk, Tfg, & those who grew up as bullies & stayed a bully!
As James Carville put it: White Trash. A lot of it in America.right now....as bad as Covid.
Alas, Marsha, it is neither lack of intelligence nor necessarily ignorance that leads parents to defend their child to the bitter end. It is fear they will be seen as bad parents. Their worth as a human being, in their own eyes, depends on their child being perfect and if he/she is not, it must be someone else's fault. Teachers deal with this a lot, believe it or not, often among the well-off parents, often the better off within a particular community. Seeking help for their child is often not, again in their own eyes, possible because it would mean there is a problem that the parent needs to learn to deal with. I have known of numerous parents who will not get special education help for a struggling, sometimes even non-functioning child because THEIR child is perfect. A neighbor when I was growing up had a deaf child. He learned to read lips while playing with the kids in the neighborhood, and was always in trouble. Of course, with no formal help, he could not make it in first grade. His father was so deeply embarrassed at having a disabled child he refused to even acknowledge the disability and punished him for not listening to him. All the kids in the neighborhood knew he was deaf. His mother finally registered him in a school for deaf children where he did master sign language and added to his ability with lip reading. Just being able to communicate took away most of the anger that used to get him into trouble in the neighborhood. Could someone slip a flyer about positive discipline between the doors of their house or tape it to the door so the mom can see it?
Ruth, so glad for the deaf child to be able to rise above his embarrassed father who would not deal with a physical disability. In the matter I described is not a physical disability, rather an emotional disability. Living in Duval County, Florida, one must be very careful to criticize or comment on one's behavior, particularly when it comes to neighbors. You never know who has a gun! I'm not a psychologist & won't pretend to know about positive discipline or how children should be raised & therefore would not venture into that foray with this particular mother. I only know how I was raised. Others around me feel the same way, as the mother is aggressive, a liar & a bully.
I’m of the Gen X era. When I went to college, Masters and PHD programs were considered for industries that you wanted to specialize in. It was very difficult to get through these programs and you had to present to your peers and professors at the end. Nowadays anyone can get a Masters degree. What are your thoughts of the onslaught of people getting Masters degrees?
Rita, I don't care where and when a person gets a master's degree, it's hard and exhausting. It often happens when one is working. Teachers must get one to get tenure in most places and other jobs require the degrees too to keep their jobs, like many businesses. There are more master's degrees because there are more people.
This shameless has even invaded the sports world. Nationally followed sports commentators are openly saying that in a national championship, in the most recent case, Sunday’s Super-bowl, late in the game the referees should swallow the whistle. Even in a case ,where the player openly acknowledged he broke a rule, a nationally broadcast commentator said he thought this should be the case. This broadcaster had picked the offending team and eventual loser, as his winner before the game. He even miss reported the penalty called by confusing it with another rule that would have justified the outcome desired. He did this despite he fact he knew fans had confused the two rules. Money wagered and lost might have been won if the referee only swallowed the whistle. Rules be dammed! Ratings and being an apologist for supporters of cheating losers apparently I are KING.
Thank you! I’m a Chiefs fan. The holding call referenced the right hand (holding the jersey), but nearly every angle online shows the left hand touching the waist. Even the ref who made the call said it referred to the right hand. 🙄
There has to be some way to deflect and distract attention away from the obviously shameful behavior of an Elon Musk or a Rupert Murdoch, or the very greedy who are a big part of our problems, like global climate disaster. To keep attention away from the obvious contradictions baked into our 'Democracy', like the Electoral 'College', 'Citizens United', gerrymandering and things like the filibuster and so many inequities that allow the minority rule that encourages the outsized power of the few, who would ride roughshod all over the many. The 'Sergeant in arms' was ceremonial, and was 'unceremoniously' dismissed by the very people who should be escorted out of the Congress. There is a 'permanent crease in our 'right and wrong' ('Stand' : Sly and the Family Stone), caused by money ruling us, not decency or the rule of law. So, we get distractions! Which serve the purpose of keeping our eyes diverted from the real problem. Obscene wealth that blocks justice. The ' Supreme ' court fell to the money. Not surprising that the Sergeant of arms' dismissal hardly got a mention.
Because of social media, it takes less time to change societal norms and ideals. Less time to lead a tribe and grow it, or even make it seem larger than it is. People who find power in nastiness can now easily become leaders, or the appearance of, via social media. It's easier to tap into more humans minds now. Humans have the propensity for being emotion-driven sheep-like followers. Combine that with rich leaders and feelings of being unfairly treated. A recipe for blind, angry unrest of a populus. They can't even see their eventual demise.
Excellent description of the way I see things too! Today is my first time reading Mr. Reich posting also the comments too and I must say I am impressed with all the comments on this thread for it is a wonderful to see decent people like you and others who see the true value of this post! Have a wonderful day sir and anyone else reading these comments!❤️🫂
Excellent points. An added factor is the ability to hide in social media groups and get away with shameful behavior anonymously.
Good observations
A highly perceptive analysis.
As a clinical psychologist I can say that "why?" is a complex question. Here are some thoughts.
At its most basic level society is changing because technology overall has enabled individuals to be unchained from enduring personal contacts. We easily move from group to group, never putting down deep roots. Our psychological "constants" are fantasy-based remote possibilities as presented to us via electronic media. "God" and "God's judgment" have been left behind by many as monitors of personal conduct, and the substitute metric for success has pivoted to money and fame, not enhancement of social good. In this process your imagined potential ratings on TV or social media have become more valued than those experienced via personal contact.
Social mobility has loosened personal contacts, broken up families and made the images seen on the screen more exciting and attractive. Shame can be ignored in this context and more easily brushed off because it relies on the evaporating feeling of personal connectedness.
This is the same reason society is more fragmented and young people are feeling more estranged and depressed. Their identities are confused and they feel depersonalized without the stability of a socially cohesive foundation.
It's a broad social phenomenon in which technology substitutes fantasy images for personal connectedness. Shame does not play the same role in fantasy as it does in real personal community, so it is diminishing.
'...society is changing because technology overall has enabled individuals to be unchained from enduring personal contacts.' Technology is not generative or causative of behavior. It merely provides opportunities. The individual selects for actions given how the world occurs for them moment by moment. The occurring world is given by the (usually) unexamined context we hold that was formed unconsciously and without purpose or intentionality. It'd be nice if we could lay our problems on technology's doorstep and not be responsible for our actions.
Absolutely correct that technology provides opportunities. The point is that the world has changed as technology has developed and been put into place. Consequently the choices available are different and the psychological orientation that follows from that is different. For example, in world with no broadcast media, not even radio, there was no ability to make choices based on receiving information, whether true or false, from distant locations. In a world with broadcast technology such choices become possible. In the former the amount of total information re: distant events was minimal. Now there is information overload. In this psychological environment people can be fed misinformation and disinformation to a degree that they may be readily convinced of falsehoods. Lies and deception have always occurred throughout history. In the age of technology everything is multiplied and intensified. The change in quantity makes a change in quality, just as a fire hose and a dripping faucet both deliver water but the difference in quantity obviously changes the quality of it all.
The key element of all of this is individual empowerment without personal contact. In a small village one needed to relate to neighbors for help and support, perhaps collectively harvesting a crop or relying on a groom to saddle a horse or hitch it to a wagon. Now with automotive technology or harvesting machinery one can take care of all these things individually. Others must still exist in the background, such as the workers in the car factory of those who keep the phone lines open, but there is no direct personal contact with any of these parties. I just jump in my car and go. Thus, social mobility of a type unimaginable in pre-technological times. Shame is an element of close personal relations, whether used destructively in youth who are jockeying for social standing, or constructively in keeping adult society coherent. When close personal relations are not required in the adult world because we are served by all these technological wonders, we can easily function with a sense of anonymity, centering the self, dehumanizing others to one or another degree, and escaping from shame entirely.
(reposting as previous reply went below and broke this thread)
Absolutely correct that technology provides opportunities.
The point is that the world has changed as technology has developed and been put into place.
Yes, new tools present new opportunities. And the world changes with or without technology’s development. I assume your reference to ‘the world’ is pointing to a psychological environmental change you refer to below and not simply the movement and therefore change of the physical world.
Consequently, the choices available are different…
*Sure.
and the psychological orientation that follows from that is different.
*This for me is a leap of faith. New opportunities do not cause new psychological orientations. If they did then there is no basis to say there is free will. Without the freedom to choose there is no responsibility. Human being is reduced to a stimulus-response organism.
For example, in world with no broadcast media, not even radio, there was no ability to make choices based on receiving information,
*Choices based on anything are not choices, in my view. They are decisions. Decisions are based on something, anything, whereas choices are not. Decision makers have reasons for their selections, presenting the opportunity to have the circumstances or situations deflect responsibility for the selection. With choice based on nothing other than having selected, the responsibility for the outcome, good or bad, rests solely with the selection maker.
whether true or false, from distant locations. In a world with broadcast technology such choices become possible. In the former the amount of total information re: distant events was minimal.
Now there is information overload.
*Agreed, people are generally not responsible for managing the flow of information and are easily overloaded.
In this psychological environment people can be fed misinformation and disinformation to a degree that they may be readily convinced of falsehoods. Lies and deception have always occurred throughout history. In the age of technology everything is multiplied and intensified. The change in quantity makes a change in quality, just as a fire hose and a dripping faucet both deliver water but the difference in quantity obviously changes the quality of it all.
*Yes, not taking responsibility for the flow of information has impact.
The key element of all of this is individual empowerment without personal contact. In a small village one needed to relate to neighbors for help and support, perhaps collectively harvesting a crop or relying on a groom to saddle a horse or hitch it to a wagon. Now with automotive technology or harvesting machinery one can take care of all these things individually. Others must still exist in the background, such as the workers in the car factory of those who keep the phone lines open, but there is no direct personal contact with any of these parties. I just jump in my car and go. Thus, social mobility of a type unimaginable in pre-technological times.
*Yes, today’s post-industrial tools provide individuals with powers previously unimagined. I completely agree that most do not recognize or appreciate the total interconnectedness of things. If you take a simple glass of water resting on a table and trace back all that’s come before that has that glass sitting there, you end up connecting all the dots back to the beginning of the uni(or multi)verse!
Shame is an element of close personal relations, whether used destructively in youth who are jockeying for social standing, or constructively in keeping adult society coherent.
*Sure, it’s a tool to use and can be used well or poorly.
When close personal relations are not required in the adult world because we are served by all these technological wonders,
*Nope, tools are not doing the serving, people are.
we can easily function with a sense of anonymity, centering the self, dehumanizing others to one or another degree, and escaping from shame entirely.
Very instructive and insightful comment. Thank you. Now what can we do to reverse these trends? I think the fact that Musk’s viewership dropped should indicate that a significant number of people are getting sick of this. I hope so❤️
I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle. In all likelihood we will become more alienated as new technology emerges, whatever that may be.
This is the age of individual empowerment in combination with re-forming of groups. Insofar as accountability can be avoided we shall expect more shameless and narcissistic actions. At best, we must hold people liable under the law when they break it. At the least it would be important for people to know what is going on: how technology is remaking our social and psychological worlds.