Shame requires that a person have a conscience and some sort of moral compass that gives direction between what's right and wrong. None of these people have a conscience that might cause them to consider or ask themselves are they doing the right thing. Worse yet, they don't care. Power, money and position is omnipotent for these people and until that changes there continue to be no shame whatsoever that might give someone pause to alter behavior for the good.
Right. Start from a premise that there is right and wrong. IMHO the examples Robert uses -- Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Ogles, George Santos, Elon Musk -- IMHO resemble the oppositional defiant behavior I used to see in childhood disability and in uneducable delinquent juvenile cases. Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) includes a frequent and ongoing pattern of anger, irritability, arguing and defiance toward parents and other authority figures. ODD also includes being spiteful and seeking revenge, a/k/a vindictiveness.
Studies from psychology show that shame often leads to withdrawal, isolation, and hiding, and is associated with depression, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorder, and impaired empathy, among other negative outcomes.
There always been an antihero archetype in our culture --. typically an irrepressibly earnest character forced to decide if he’s willing to sell his soul to the devil in exchange for justice. Everyman . Faust. In Wikipedia a picture of Clint Eastwood - the "man with no name" in Italian westerns, later Dirty Harry, and Thersites from Homer's Iliad depicts a hero who may lack conventional heroic qualities and attributes, such as idealism, courage, and morality.
We haven't -- at least yet --been able to show Trump cultists that their hero lacks these qualities.
Daniel, I like your connection of the examples Prof. Reich gave us to the architypes of literature. I had not thought of that and it helps give perspective. I agree with you about the negative aspects of shame. In fact, I have been thinking about it and can't think of positives beyond possibly keeping people from appalling behavior. As a teacher, I have seen the results of shame and they are awful, even devastating. We rarely had sufficient counselors and other support personnel to help students suffering shame dealt to them by peers and others "I thought you were gifted, why can't you . . .?" or "why can't you ____ like everyone else?" or "was that your stupid idea, I thought so!" and "You think you're so smart, well you're not; teachers just like you better." and so much more. From Mary Trump's book, it seems Donald Trump was shamed a lot as a young person by his dad, so I guess he can't feel it anymore. We see the results of the shaming and it ain't pretty.
The Making of a Narcissist -- Realize, Narcissus loved his reflection, not himself. Shame and self-hatred are at the core of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and the sufferer will do most anything to avoid the feeling of abject shame. They MUST solicit a reflection of competence and “superiority” from others, to provide a reflection they can love, because they hate the little ball of crap they believe is at at their core. They “don’t feel shame” because they perpetually run from it shoved deep down inside, having learned the difference between feeling shame and feeling pride, however false and unearned that pride might be.
In 1973 a fragrance appeared that shared a name with the then 2-year-old Elon, this scent was called "Oil of Musk." It had an earthy appeal that seemed to linger way past your initial exposure. I was seeing a young lady at the time that found favor in the use of this erotic oil. Even to this day when I catch so much as a hint of that intoxicating smell memories of our time together come flooding back as if time had stopped its encroachment. As a 2-year-old child growing up in this country, he had no idea of what was to come. Mr. Musk has become a central focal point concerning the war in Ukraine. There exists a series of satellites positioned in a low Earth orbit that boosts internet broadband capabilities. As it turns out these assets greatly aid the Ukrainian military in the defense of their country. Mr. Musk is taking the position that the continued use of this system will lead to the possibility of there being a new world war. Previously, I have equated the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine to that of a boxing match. I see this debacle as entering its third round. On a 10-point must system, I've given each combatant a round apiece. Both countries involved in this baseless struggle have been bloodied and are looking to gain an advantage. Russia is attempting an escalation in order to combat the aggressive efforts put forth by the Ukrainian military in recent months. Putin is struggling, his efforts in Ukraine have caused a tremendous loss of Russian life and equipment, not to mention the damage rendered to the image of the "Great Russian Bear." Ukraine's use of the Starlink system has made a real difference in the "war." If Musk ends the connection needed for the continued success of the Ukrainian military Russia will gain a decided advantage. The fear of starting WWIII is a moot point, because of the short-sightedness of Mr. Musk, the very war he fears probably has been ongoing for over a year, but only in its infant stages. The only real issue is to what extent will it be allowed to escalate. Putin will never back down and either will Zelenskyy. At some point, one of the two sides will have to realize further confrontation is useless. Who knows it might very well be a mutual decision to cease the conflict altogether, but at what cost? Ukraine will settle for nothing less than total control of its sovereignty including the return of all territories now held by the Russian military. For Musk to withhold any military advantage earned by the Ukrainians would only open the door to a Russian victory. With the whole of Ukraine in the hands of Russian forces NATO countries sharing a border with Ukraine would be next in the Russian crosshairs. How would this further intrusion by Russia be viewed as anything but Musk's WWIII? The actuality of a new world war might well have been prompted by the interference he objected to so vehemently. At present, our relationship with China is strained, and the last alliance we want to see developed is the one between Russia and the Chinese. The longer the war in Ukraine continues the greater the possibility exists for that conjoined alliance to take place. Mr. Musk needs to rethink his lack of thinking. Whose side is he really on? That of the all-mighty dollar?
Musk has recently shown that he is on the side of fascists, dictators & tyrants. I suspect that Musk, like Trump & a large proportion of congressional Republicans & media personnel, is being compromised by some sort of blackmail, which explains their pro-Putin & Trump stances
Your observations re Elon Musk are frightening, especially of what he is capable of doing re undermining the Ukrainian army. My first thought was: "having money doesn't equate to having brains" (well, not in the usual way IMHO). Being of Latvian heritage my parents' homeland of Latvia would just be a snack for Putin. The Russians have already shown the world how brutal they've always been by sending a good chunk of Latvia's population to Siberia on 14th June 1941. (Latvia has a population of almost 2 million, 60% of whom are Latvian).
As Putin couldn't care less about democracy and sovereignty he won't be stopped by NATO either.
That is the real prelude to WWIII. US combat troops in Ukraine fighting with NATO forces against Putin's Military. Hold on to your potatoes Dr. Jones, Short Round is at the wheel.
A short joke for ya, now make sure there are no ladies around, this is strictly a man's joke. So if there are any ladies in the room please leave , I'll give them a couple of second to exit. Coast is all clear. here goes. What is the difference between parsley and pussy? No one eats parsley. Ok, tell the women they can come back in now.
There is a vast difference between feeling shame and being shamed. Shaming is merely the exercise of power over the often helpless, denying them agency and enforcing group norms and discipline. Feeling shame is an internal process wherein the person recognizes that internalized values have been violated and they are not the person they hoped to have been. In the extreme think of the people who complied in the Milgram experiments, where they thought they killed someone as they “followed orders.” These people experienced deep shame and guilt. The assholes in Congress don’t have the knowledge, upbringing or intelligence to be embarrassed.
Jeffrey Engel ; Election deniers/stealers want to 'win' at any cost ; (think Santos/McCarthy). Birds of a feather with greedy corporate monopolies, and those who really believe that the shareholders deserve profits even if the makers (workers) are screwed.
Ruth: true! That anger has to go somewhere! Tfg has a persecution complex ; it seems to be catching. If only they could see their true oppressors, instead of trying to be tyrants themselves!
This is a response to the teacher who described the long-term effects of shaming.
You're talking about shaming the innocent when the one doing the shaming is really the one who should feel bad. Those people Reich is referring to are the ones who feel no shame, but probably should. Sometimes a little shame tweaks a desire to be better. Maybe there is a better word for what he is talking about.
Last week after the State of the Union message, Daniel, you wrote about the fact that there are rules, decorum and consequences for the behavior of the GOP at Biden's address that the Speaker, McCarthy should have taken care of. NOTHING. That is the problem I believe we are dealing with. The moneyed elite have been allowed to do ANYTHING/EVERYTHING without consequences. This has a corrosive effect on society (Trump, of course is the poster child for this) and last week a bullied 14 year old did commit suicide, airline passengers, and Americans ANYWHERE are behaving like they're participants in a gladiator show in ancient Rome or in the film Hunger Games. No, I'm not off topic....how can anyone be shamed when no one is held accountable? Crimes are ignored and the criminals walk among us as if they have DONE NOTHING because that is how society treats them, Bad/god-awful behavior is emboldened, again, Trump is the poster boy for that. 17 or more people in Georgia who participated in vast criminal behavior in the 2020 election are SCOT-FREE,every one of them. No one has shamed THEM. The US had another mass shooting yesterday in Michigan. No one is shaming or holding accountable those lawmakers who support guns or the NRA? Shame? The greatest of that is the deterioration of American decency, rule of laws, the common good, and so much more. There is so much to feel shame about.
"Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) includes a frequent and ongoing pattern of anger, irritability, ARGUING AND DEFIANCE TOWARD PARENTS AND OTHER AUTHORITY FIGURES." I have written a very long account of my DEFIANCE OF AUTHORITY, called DISSENT.
Starting in high school in the early ‘60s when I announced my Atheism in Christendom. I also opposed reciting the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag after they inserted that “under god” divisiveness.
But it was in the late 1960s with the Free Luv Sexual Revolution that I did what “normal” society would call shameful, and which I and my counter-culture peers saw as normal behavior. I smoked dope & learned that it was less harmful than the legal drug alcohol, which I occasionally drank in excess and did shameful things like driving my car. I shamelessly had casual sex with most of the women I met at that time and eventually with a few men. I shamelessly went naked in communal situations, skinning dipping with other men, women & children at a rock concert in the country.
In 1994 I shamelessly supported Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders when she said teens should be encouraged to masturbate to prevent other more dangerous sexual behavior. When Bill Clinton fired her I wrote a letter criticizing him and joined the shameless ppl in the press who said he was wrong and she was right. Perhaps recounting my own discovery of masturbation at the age of 12 in 1956, and feeling shame because we had no sex education that said it was normal adolescent behavior.
Oh wait, did I just shamelessly write all this on a forum board?
Nope. Actually quite proud of my "shameless" behavior as defined by others.
However, there are things of which I am contrite:
The Sin of Following
by Rob Boyte - February 28, 2017
Bullying - it seems to be a plague of our society and a given that some kids in school have to endure this cruel assault on their being by classmates. Gay kids, minority kids, disabled kids. Kids with any kind of difference or for no reason whatsoever are targeted by their peers for taunting or even fysical attack. And some kids, to escape this bullying have actually killed themselves.
...
However, I do recall with some shame taunting classmates. Perhaps I was the bully. Our target in fifth grade was a girl named Vickie and a group of us boys would shout taunts at her on the playground. In class we would do obvious avoidance as if she had the plague. IDK why. I don't think any of us had a clue - we were following the leaderless pack. Vickie was a stout girl and may have been hitting puberty before the rest of us, giving us a target. It was a cruelty of which I regret and fear we may have done irreparable harm to Vickie.
I remember there was a girl who was somewhat awkward in the grade above me & a disruptive kid in my own class, who were picked out as kids to pick on. They had "cooties", so everyone had to avoid them for their own self-preservation!
One of the great challenges of schoolchildren was to avoid becoming someone who was picked on by the other kids.
Trump was known as a bully, & you can be sure that MTG, Boebert, Cawthorn, Jordan, Gaetz, etc. were all bullies, too. But I wonder if some of them were the bullied, & are now taking their revenge on the rest of us. Bullies display no empathy, but the bullied never develop empathy, either, just growing resentment against society.
As always, Daniel, good discussion points. It’s a sad world in vast need of mental health services, as we learn every hour, almost. The study released yesterday regarding teen behavior (CDC) and pointing to girls in particular was not shocking to me. It’s been building and building for years. MTG must have been bullied in her youth. Money can’t make you happy, even though it may help.
And looking at photos of Musk before hair implants...I’m guessing he was too.
Robert, thank you for giving more voice to all of this. Daniel, and Robert, and the rest of our friends here...how can we regain decency? We must!
Regain decency. As I said below, ridicule. Satire works.
In court when someone is in contempt, the court must give a right to purge the contempt. Court sanctions can include stuff like public apologies, jail time, fines. What about: send someone like Greene to a comedy club every night for a month.
What about acts of contrition? Holy Joes say that they are necessary to receive God's forgiveness. The church used to sell indulgences. Get out of Hell free cards. Penance ran from saying a few hail Marys to flagellation, rituals like carrying the cross through the stations on Good Friday to the "Ride for Life" imposed to purify infidels during the Inquisition. Burned St. Joan at that stake.
Imagine if .Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Ogles, George Santos, Elon Musk were forced for spiritual contrition to publicly apologize. Where are the Holy Joes???
I've probably said previously that besides the Biden contempt issue, she has perjured herself a couple of times. I watched her testimony in the case before the Georgia state administrative law judge. IMHO "I don't know or I don't remember" can constitute perjury.
As Professor Reich points out "Many Americans love Donald Trump’s loutishness". In my view, which may be simplistic, humans are just animals on a spectrum where it comes to a sense of decency. I lean toward the "nature" over "nurture" view, so I don't believe Trump fans can be shamed or trained or educated out of anything, and I'm speaking here about the MAGA types that attend his rallies, not all Republicans.These people, the MAGA"s and MTG"s, are fundamentally like him at some deep level and admire his "in your face" brand. By his celebrity he has given them permission to emulate his behavior. Any vestigial sense of shame they may have is overshadowed by the glee they feel at being given permission to act like rowdy children. Their numbers protect them from accountability as individuals. Today's GOP has simply acted as a sieve to concentrate this element of our population and Trump is just the hand shaking the sieve.
True, many Republican politicians of late remind me of the class clowns & disruptors of elementary school & junior high. They have not matured since that stage. How voters can possibly think these people are material for Congress, the governorship or presidency is beyond me.
I get a kick out of how traditional and conservative that sane progressives have gravitated towards. Renaissance-era thinking. The sanctity of the free rational mind and the dictates of one’s own conscience. Value ethics, like you offered. The MAGA fools have driven off the Rosseauvian cliff. Weird.
My son played high school football with a boy with ODD, until the boy trashed the locker room in anger. I can't remember if he played after that happened. It was a while ago. I do know the boy went to ACES (www.ACES.org) a school for special needs.
NFL material. We used to have panels of three members of the school board hear cases involving student discipline. I was the prosecutor. If the kid was big, despite psychological expert testimony and my recommendations, the "penalty" was monitoring by one of our assistant football coaches. We had one of the best HS programs in the country. Virtually all of those kids eventually went to college on scholarship. Some went to the NFL.
I was also on the advisory board of a "reform school" that sent a few players to Ivy league schools. We also had a "Youth Development Center" in my home town for juvie murderers, arsonists, rapists, etc. A few of those kids got scholarships upon release.
I think that many of these kids WERE rehabilitated. We had "football study hall" for all players when I was in high school. The coaches checked on the kids -- at home -- and in some cases every night. The head football coach actually obtained legal custody in a couple of cases, one allegedly a murderer, who went on to be pros. My brother got a letter as a team manager partly for using the Driver Education car to pick up players who were in custody of coaches.
Chris, in addition to your strong points, I would add that the society in general has been working to lose any moral compass we have had. It is We the People who have elected fools like Trump, Santos, and Greene (and McCarthy) to offices that should be reserved for people who actually have a moral compass and care about the people and the future of our democracy. Alas, we have an entire political party that cares only about money and power, two elements that set aside the needs of the American people.
You are right but in perspective We the people didn’t elect Trump, the Electoral College did and Why we the people- the majority are so outraged by this violent, uncontrolled behavior.
Nancy, I taught 7 years as a Title I reading and math specialist for gr.K-3, then 19 years as the Gifted Support teacher for my district, gr.K-12. I retired 18 months ago from that job. I have actually been teaching since I was about 10, helping neighborhood kids learn letters and numbers. I have taught in many places, a range of subjects from document design to home management and cooking for newly blind people, from Sunday school to leading Girl Scout troops, from serving as a docent at the Museum of Natural History in Washington to serving as an AIDS educator. I currently tutor 8th grade math students as a volunteer.
I’m very happy to hear you are still teaching. Do you believe the loss of teaching our kids Civics, real American History, Government has anything to do with the hold of the Maga’s Caucus on The Republican politicians! Just asking, because I believe if people do not know their rights and responsibilities as America citizens we are not prepared for what’s around the corner.
DZK; ; That is why they make up stuff like pizza gate and murder plots. It has to be bad enough to be shameful, so they can shame their perceived enemies.
Implicit in the description of a psychopathic / sociopathic / antisocial personality disordered person is the absence of shame. I googled "hypothalamus antisocial personality disorder nih" and found "Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Function in Children and Adults with Severe Antisocial Behavior and the Impact of Early Adversity" at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6132769/ , which provides (in part) in the Conclusion: "... In contrast to these mixed, but mostly negative, findings for basal cortisol, studies investigating cortisol reactivity to stress have yielded consistent evidence for hyporeactivity in children and adolescents with [disruptive behavior disorders] and adults with [Antisocial Personality Disorder] or psychopathy. Nevertheless, heterogeneity within antisocial behavior and psychiatric comorbidity both appear to influence cortisol reactivity, as [callous-unemotional] traits appear to be associated with a more pronounced pattern of hyporeactivity whereas comorbid internalizing disorders predict heightened cortisol reactivity and impaired recovery following stress. ..."
Science has established that early childhood (roughly age seven and younger) adversity "primes" a person for childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder.
These are the people who "claim" to be fighting for Christianity!!! Claim to be 'evangelicals'! When clearly they are not. They are just manipulating Christianity in order to gain/retain money/power/influence. This is evident because they are not following the example of Christ. As a result, they perpetuate a false doctrine/example that lead/justify others to act in the same way.
While I do not dispute your observations here, I believe they are not sufficient to provide an explanation. Conscience and moral compasses exist within a cultural context; it is what gives them directionality. IMO, our culture has FAME as its central sought after attribute; social media is the message. The antipodal pairings of fame and infamy, honor and shame, etc. have been displaced by a pile of 'likes' and facial recognitions. I have no idea how our culture will change, but I am sure in time it will change.
Good thoughts, but breaking the cycle of reverence for money and power is a tough nut. Both rich and poor never have enough of them. Fifty years ago I came across two little boys playing with a puppy, one obviously the owner. I made over the little furball while the other kid stood aside, scowling. Finally he said, "My daddy's gonna get me a better puppy. It costes a hunnerd and three dollars." There's your focus, from the mouths of babes. It's the money, not the puppy. It's a culture that will do anything to preserve that value system, even to selling out its kids.
So how did such a mentality permeate our culture? It's a very complex issue, involving the old Protestant work ethic that hard work will be rewarded in proportion to one's' efforts (we know that doesn't work), indicating God's blessings, which are translated into monetary terms. Monetary wealth therefore receives the status of divine sanction, eventually regardless of the means used to achieve it. The necessity to constantly acquire expensive "things" has been inculcated into the general public in order to promote sales.
I was raised Protestant and hard work was definitely of high importance. The hard work mentality was as much for others as self. It was hard work in order to be frugal, help others, get educated, do what is healthy so we wouldn't burden the doctors and hospitals. It was not selfish hard work like we see so much in today's me me me attitude.
Absolutely. Our culture has been conditioned to place one's own interests first. That is the essence of capitalism. Any good or service is only delivered if requisite profit accrues to the deliverer. Conversely, any activity that promises to deliver profit, good, bad or indifferent, will be tolerated in accordance with the amount of profit to be gained. Contributory "hard work" is of no consequence (consider the relative pay of say, teachers versus hedge fund manipulators, who neither weave nor spin, yet are most richly rewarded on the basis of how much revenue they turn over) If humans wanted to work hard, we'd still be dragging loads around instead of rolling them about on wheels. The "smart" ones are the ones who work the system most to their advantage. The wealthy don't get that way by "working hard". They get that way by working the system, getting others working hard to make them wealthy.
I hate to dump "the wealthy" into one category. I know many wealthy people who are very smart, very moral, and very very hard working from a young age to past what I consider retirement age. And I think we need those special people. And, yes, there are also many wealthy immoral people who have taken advantage of people with fewer skills than they. Laws are supposed to limit the power of those who are not moral and may not even be so smart or creative except when it comes to making money.
There will always be people like this, but they haven't been this popular in our history. The followers who give them the attention they want are the real problem. As long as the shameless get what they want; they will continue to act this way.
I just sent this reply to another person who commented on what I wrote:
No, not hopeless. Power, money, sex and celebrity are the (predominant) goals Bertrand Russell identified after World War II (presumably analyzing historical figures of that time). The 2010 article in Current Psychiatric Reports analyzes the biochemistry of childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Understanding how early childhood adversity can result in those disorders provides a hopeful perspective enabling understanding and compassionate interaction / treatment of those (untreated troubled children) whose predominant behaviors are driven by money, power, sex and celebrity. Certainly not a facile solution to the (valid) social problems you identify, but a start grounded in science.
Sound reasoning, but who is going to administer these fact-based values? Not the churches, who are just as money-starved as anyone. Not the schools, where any science-based approach is immediately quashed by school boards under pressure from extremist anti-science factions. My daughter's specialty as a teacher is early childhood development in a somewhat less than progressive county, and you can imagine the frustrations she deals with. As you said, not a facile approach but I applaud the direction.
There appears to be a group of the oligarchy that feels they have attained God-like power and now are even attempting immortality. It’s reported that even Kushner is taking better care of his health because he might live forever and Peter Thiel takes the vampire approach by using the blood of young people (kinda scary he’s adopted a child!). I don’t think we can automatically attribute the values and ideas of the ordinary person to this group.
No, not hopeless. Power, money, sex and celebrity are the (predominant) goals Bertrand Russell identified after World War II (presumably analyzing historical figures of that time). The 2010 article in Current Psychiatric Reports analyzes the biochemistry of childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Understanding how early childhood adversity can result in those disorders provides a hopeful perspective enabling understanding and compassionate interaction / treatment of those (untreated troubled children) whose predominant behaviors are driven by money, power, sex and celebrity. Certainly not a facile solution to the (valid) social problems you identify, but a start grounded in science.
We are weary from constant exploitation especially by businesses, corporations, politicians and our government. Even the churches that have mixed politics into their sermons.
When we realize the responsibilities of citizens in a democracy and make sure we teach the skills needed (critical thinking, history, honesty, civics, and citizen responsibility), then we will become a stronger democracy with equal opportunity, morals, and good leadership.
I wrote about this too, and good grief, the critics that came out to tell me how wrong I was, and that Trump is actually a really great person. It was hilarious the way people tried to defend him, and make light of what happened.
The death of shame is right! Republicans have no shame anymore!
I am not so sure that only Republicans have a hold on shamelessness. This decline as Robert observes has been long coming in the public forum. As we become accustomed to toleration we suspend the underpinnings of virtues and values previously common to us as a people. This is much broader than any one political party. It just feels better to point a finger at one.
Except that the abject shamelessness we've witnessed over the last few years, particularly with the advent of Trump, is exclusively a Republican phenomenon. If you have some serious examples that are more than occasional outliers that suggest otherwise, please, do enlighten.
The tenor of your reply would suggest a debate rather than discussion. Indeed, even without responding any suggestion would be characterized “an outlier.” I respectfully decline the invitation. Thank you.
Jaime, OK, we needed to hear the "everybody does it" comment. Yes, significant parts of our culture are becoming "shameless," but not equally across the society, as you do know. When one political party has nearly entirely left their moral compass behind in favor of "whatever it takes to win," it is hard not to see this as a whole society thing. And, when our media covers the lying, cheating, and gaslighting in the same manner it covers honest transactions, it keeps many from identifying what is true. A whole segment of the Republican Party thinks Trump and Kump are honest brokers who actually care about them. Beyond their verbal and Twitter claims, there is no evidence of this phantom caring, but it doesn't matter. The lies cling and the truth is usually lost to them. I don't want the "believers" to be ashamed, just to wake up and use a little of the thinking gift they were given to see what is real and what is not. And, "everyone does it," in this case, isn't real!
Ruth, you make good points. However, there is shamelessness and skullduggery to go around, quite sadly. And sometimes groupthink that is dreadful. The Rs, IMHO, are worse on that count and kowtow to Trumpf like we never would. I think for the sake of the “soul of the nation”, as JB says, and it really IS NOT A JOKE...we Democrats have to figure this out.
My son worries about civilization collapse. I argue with him, yet don’t we all have nagging worries about that?
I once presented a panel on climate before the Center for Existential Risk at University of Cambridge. Some may wish to read Dr. Graham Allison’s book regarding avoiding the “Thucydides Trap” with China ten years ago. We are in that time. Right Now.
I’m hoping our inner angels emerge and this great American ship, indeed our world ship can be righted with kindness, equality, justice and fairness. We have to try. I’m sure you told your students that.
As CSN song said, “It’s always the darkest before the dawn.”
PaulaO, you are right about the challenges, but also about the hope build into justice, fairness, equality, and the rest. Those are so much more rewarding than anger and hatred, but alas, so many have known none of them. When one group, in this case, white men, have had control over everything for so long, it is hard to keep the fairness, justice, equality, and caring alive and moving forward. We have made inroads, but the white male contingent is fighting back, and they have most of the weapons including history, the law, the media, physical strength and willingness to do violence, and the ability to shame. Despite all that, I do teach hope, a challenge in a school district with around 90% of the students eligible for free school lunches, a pretty good measure of poverty. They deserve everything as does every child, but they don't get much and often don't see much of a future for themselves. Shame lurks everywhere here as does hope. How strange!
I also worry about the collapse of civilization. I think it could happen fairly soon if, for example, Republicans take over, Russia defeats Ukraine, China invades Taiwan, nuclear war or WWIII breaks out, or we end up in a civil war.
Even if we manage to avoid all that, environmental disaster, ecosystem collapse & mass extinction brought on by climate chaos & considerable other anthropogenic harm to the environment will eventually bring extreme pressure to human civilization. The way we have been handling it, especially the most powerful countries like Russia, China & the US, which is to grab & usurp all resources we can find, will quickly bring us to war, famine & the end of civilization.
The only way to avert that is to conserve, economize, share & distribute fairly & do what is necessary to mitigate, protect from & adapt to a much harsher climate.
Jaime Roman ; But Democrats did not attack the Capitol two years ago, nor did they stuff the courts with those who want to deny more than half the people basic medical care that was 'settled law' according to the 'judges' who perjured themselves in their confirmation hearings .among other things.
As I recall, six years ago many chanted “Not my President” despite the electoral results? My concern is that each side seeks a moral victory over the other such that we cannot talk to one another. I have avoided political affiliation because I vote the person and the issue without regard to the affiliated political party. My parents are from Nicaragua. I am a septuagenarian now. The media and political environment has slowly declined from the world I experienced in the 50s and later. But, at my age, I also take some comfort that focus on “outliers” does not define us as a people anymore than, for example, a focus on “criminal defendants” defines a people.
They all think they don’t need to be ashamed but if Kevin McCarthy would start fines when they start with their B.S. and I mean substantial fines, maybe they would be choosing decorum over boorishness. It was done in the past why not now?
Is this the low point in US society? Will civility return? Who is teaching children to respect themselves and others? And why did President Biden not stop his speech and ask the ignorant and disrespectful and stupid members to leave? In my opinion, he should have, while the whole world was watching. That would have shifted power in that moment, at least for that moment, and it would have made it right. Those are the kind of actions that must happen, constantly, in order for things to be made right. It should become the mission of every person with a social conscience. Congress is not a stage for performers. It needs to be restored to a place where there is serious debate and deliberation about serious matters.
I respectfully disagree. President Biden had no power or ability to enforce such a request; since the Fweedumb Squad have no morals whatsoever, it wouldn't have bothered the shameless
Shame requires that a person have a conscience and some sort of moral compass that gives direction between what's right and wrong. None of these people have a conscience that might cause them to consider or ask themselves are they doing the right thing. Worse yet, they don't care. Power, money and position is omnipotent for these people and until that changes there continue to be no shame whatsoever that might give someone pause to alter behavior for the good.
Right. Start from a premise that there is right and wrong. IMHO the examples Robert uses -- Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Ogles, George Santos, Elon Musk -- IMHO resemble the oppositional defiant behavior I used to see in childhood disability and in uneducable delinquent juvenile cases. Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) includes a frequent and ongoing pattern of anger, irritability, arguing and defiance toward parents and other authority figures. ODD also includes being spiteful and seeking revenge, a/k/a vindictiveness.
Studies from psychology show that shame often leads to withdrawal, isolation, and hiding, and is associated with depression, anxiety, posttraumatic stress disorder, and impaired empathy, among other negative outcomes.
There always been an antihero archetype in our culture --. typically an irrepressibly earnest character forced to decide if he’s willing to sell his soul to the devil in exchange for justice. Everyman . Faust. In Wikipedia a picture of Clint Eastwood - the "man with no name" in Italian westerns, later Dirty Harry, and Thersites from Homer's Iliad depicts a hero who may lack conventional heroic qualities and attributes, such as idealism, courage, and morality.
We haven't -- at least yet --been able to show Trump cultists that their hero lacks these qualities.
As for Kushner, he's an archetypal fraud.
Daniel, I like your connection of the examples Prof. Reich gave us to the architypes of literature. I had not thought of that and it helps give perspective. I agree with you about the negative aspects of shame. In fact, I have been thinking about it and can't think of positives beyond possibly keeping people from appalling behavior. As a teacher, I have seen the results of shame and they are awful, even devastating. We rarely had sufficient counselors and other support personnel to help students suffering shame dealt to them by peers and others "I thought you were gifted, why can't you . . .?" or "why can't you ____ like everyone else?" or "was that your stupid idea, I thought so!" and "You think you're so smart, well you're not; teachers just like you better." and so much more. From Mary Trump's book, it seems Donald Trump was shamed a lot as a young person by his dad, so I guess he can't feel it anymore. We see the results of the shaming and it ain't pretty.
The Making of a Narcissist -- Realize, Narcissus loved his reflection, not himself. Shame and self-hatred are at the core of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and the sufferer will do most anything to avoid the feeling of abject shame. They MUST solicit a reflection of competence and “superiority” from others, to provide a reflection they can love, because they hate the little ball of crap they believe is at at their core. They “don’t feel shame” because they perpetually run from it shoved deep down inside, having learned the difference between feeling shame and feeling pride, however false and unearned that pride might be.
Oil of Musk.
Donald Hodgins <silencenotbad@gmail.com>
10:08 AM (2 minutes ago)
In 1973 a fragrance appeared that shared a name with the then 2-year-old Elon, this scent was called "Oil of Musk." It had an earthy appeal that seemed to linger way past your initial exposure. I was seeing a young lady at the time that found favor in the use of this erotic oil. Even to this day when I catch so much as a hint of that intoxicating smell memories of our time together come flooding back as if time had stopped its encroachment. As a 2-year-old child growing up in this country, he had no idea of what was to come. Mr. Musk has become a central focal point concerning the war in Ukraine. There exists a series of satellites positioned in a low Earth orbit that boosts internet broadband capabilities. As it turns out these assets greatly aid the Ukrainian military in the defense of their country. Mr. Musk is taking the position that the continued use of this system will lead to the possibility of there being a new world war. Previously, I have equated the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine to that of a boxing match. I see this debacle as entering its third round. On a 10-point must system, I've given each combatant a round apiece. Both countries involved in this baseless struggle have been bloodied and are looking to gain an advantage. Russia is attempting an escalation in order to combat the aggressive efforts put forth by the Ukrainian military in recent months. Putin is struggling, his efforts in Ukraine have caused a tremendous loss of Russian life and equipment, not to mention the damage rendered to the image of the "Great Russian Bear." Ukraine's use of the Starlink system has made a real difference in the "war." If Musk ends the connection needed for the continued success of the Ukrainian military Russia will gain a decided advantage. The fear of starting WWIII is a moot point, because of the short-sightedness of Mr. Musk, the very war he fears probably has been ongoing for over a year, but only in its infant stages. The only real issue is to what extent will it be allowed to escalate. Putin will never back down and either will Zelenskyy. At some point, one of the two sides will have to realize further confrontation is useless. Who knows it might very well be a mutual decision to cease the conflict altogether, but at what cost? Ukraine will settle for nothing less than total control of its sovereignty including the return of all territories now held by the Russian military. For Musk to withhold any military advantage earned by the Ukrainians would only open the door to a Russian victory. With the whole of Ukraine in the hands of Russian forces NATO countries sharing a border with Ukraine would be next in the Russian crosshairs. How would this further intrusion by Russia be viewed as anything but Musk's WWIII? The actuality of a new world war might well have been prompted by the interference he objected to so vehemently. At present, our relationship with China is strained, and the last alliance we want to see developed is the one between Russia and the Chinese. The longer the war in Ukraine continues the greater the possibility exists for that conjoined alliance to take place. Mr. Musk needs to rethink his lack of thinking. Whose side is he really on? That of the all-mighty dollar?
Musk has recently shown that he is on the side of fascists, dictators & tyrants. I suspect that Musk, like Trump & a large proportion of congressional Republicans & media personnel, is being compromised by some sort of blackmail, which explains their pro-Putin & Trump stances
There is substance in what you have to say. Let's hope things aren't all that bad, but Musk is a jerk no matter how you look at the guy.
Jamie, I suspect those people are not being black-mailed but are black-mailers themselves! How else to you explain the on-going tit for tat.
I’ll push this through but I’ll need compensation for all the work I do for you!
Your observations re Elon Musk are frightening, especially of what he is capable of doing re undermining the Ukrainian army. My first thought was: "having money doesn't equate to having brains" (well, not in the usual way IMHO). Being of Latvian heritage my parents' homeland of Latvia would just be a snack for Putin. The Russians have already shown the world how brutal they've always been by sending a good chunk of Latvia's population to Siberia on 14th June 1941. (Latvia has a population of almost 2 million, 60% of whom are Latvian).
As Putin couldn't care less about democracy and sovereignty he won't be stopped by NATO either.
That is the real prelude to WWIII. US combat troops in Ukraine fighting with NATO forces against Putin's Military. Hold on to your potatoes Dr. Jones, Short Round is at the wheel.
Would it be possible for the US government take over Musk's Starlink system on account of national security?
That is an interesting concept. I think for the possibility of that happening the President would have to show cause. Which to me is there. Good idea.
They may have the authority to commandeer that system.
PG O'Brien ; This drives the fashion and status markets, no doubt : from clothes to cars and everything expensive.
Conspicuous consumption, the human flaw that drive that industry.
Nicely put! Great summation! tyty! : )
Thanks
A short joke for ya, now make sure there are no ladies around, this is strictly a man's joke. So if there are any ladies in the room please leave , I'll give them a couple of second to exit. Coast is all clear. here goes. What is the difference between parsley and pussy? No one eats parsley. Ok, tell the women they can come back in now.
Hey, brilliant idea to actually try to figure out what is going on with these people.
Don't let my EX-wife hear you say that. She'll make funny little dolls and stick sharp objects in it. LOL thanks .
There is a vast difference between feeling shame and being shamed. Shaming is merely the exercise of power over the often helpless, denying them agency and enforcing group norms and discipline. Feeling shame is an internal process wherein the person recognizes that internalized values have been violated and they are not the person they hoped to have been. In the extreme think of the people who complied in the Milgram experiments, where they thought they killed someone as they “followed orders.” These people experienced deep shame and guilt. The assholes in Congress don’t have the knowledge, upbringing or intelligence to be embarrassed.
Jeffrey Engel ; Election deniers/stealers want to 'win' at any cost ; (think Santos/McCarthy). Birds of a feather with greedy corporate monopolies, and those who really believe that the shareholders deserve profits even if the makers (workers) are screwed.
Ruth: true! That anger has to go somewhere! Tfg has a persecution complex ; it seems to be catching. If only they could see their true oppressors, instead of trying to be tyrants themselves!
This is a response to the teacher who described the long-term effects of shaming.
You're talking about shaming the innocent when the one doing the shaming is really the one who should feel bad. Those people Reich is referring to are the ones who feel no shame, but probably should. Sometimes a little shame tweaks a desire to be better. Maybe there is a better word for what he is talking about.
Last week after the State of the Union message, Daniel, you wrote about the fact that there are rules, decorum and consequences for the behavior of the GOP at Biden's address that the Speaker, McCarthy should have taken care of. NOTHING. That is the problem I believe we are dealing with. The moneyed elite have been allowed to do ANYTHING/EVERYTHING without consequences. This has a corrosive effect on society (Trump, of course is the poster child for this) and last week a bullied 14 year old did commit suicide, airline passengers, and Americans ANYWHERE are behaving like they're participants in a gladiator show in ancient Rome or in the film Hunger Games. No, I'm not off topic....how can anyone be shamed when no one is held accountable? Crimes are ignored and the criminals walk among us as if they have DONE NOTHING because that is how society treats them, Bad/god-awful behavior is emboldened, again, Trump is the poster boy for that. 17 or more people in Georgia who participated in vast criminal behavior in the 2020 election are SCOT-FREE,every one of them. No one has shamed THEM. The US had another mass shooting yesterday in Michigan. No one is shaming or holding accountable those lawmakers who support guns or the NRA? Shame? The greatest of that is the deterioration of American decency, rule of laws, the common good, and so much more. There is so much to feel shame about.
SHAME IS SUBJECTIVE
"Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) includes a frequent and ongoing pattern of anger, irritability, ARGUING AND DEFIANCE TOWARD PARENTS AND OTHER AUTHORITY FIGURES." I have written a very long account of my DEFIANCE OF AUTHORITY, called DISSENT.
Starting in high school in the early ‘60s when I announced my Atheism in Christendom. I also opposed reciting the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag after they inserted that “under god” divisiveness.
But it was in the late 1960s with the Free Luv Sexual Revolution that I did what “normal” society would call shameful, and which I and my counter-culture peers saw as normal behavior. I smoked dope & learned that it was less harmful than the legal drug alcohol, which I occasionally drank in excess and did shameful things like driving my car. I shamelessly had casual sex with most of the women I met at that time and eventually with a few men. I shamelessly went naked in communal situations, skinning dipping with other men, women & children at a rock concert in the country.
In 1994 I shamelessly supported Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders when she said teens should be encouraged to masturbate to prevent other more dangerous sexual behavior. When Bill Clinton fired her I wrote a letter criticizing him and joined the shameless ppl in the press who said he was wrong and she was right. Perhaps recounting my own discovery of masturbation at the age of 12 in 1956, and feeling shame because we had no sex education that said it was normal adolescent behavior.
Oh wait, did I just shamelessly write all this on a forum board?
You did
You know that for certain?
Obviously an act of contrition.
Nope. Actually quite proud of my "shameless" behavior as defined by others.
However, there are things of which I am contrite:
The Sin of Following
by Rob Boyte - February 28, 2017
Bullying - it seems to be a plague of our society and a given that some kids in school have to endure this cruel assault on their being by classmates. Gay kids, minority kids, disabled kids. Kids with any kind of difference or for no reason whatsoever are targeted by their peers for taunting or even fysical attack. And some kids, to escape this bullying have actually killed themselves.
...
However, I do recall with some shame taunting classmates. Perhaps I was the bully. Our target in fifth grade was a girl named Vickie and a group of us boys would shout taunts at her on the playground. In class we would do obvious avoidance as if she had the plague. IDK why. I don't think any of us had a clue - we were following the leaderless pack. Vickie was a stout girl and may have been hitting puberty before the rest of us, giving us a target. It was a cruelty of which I regret and fear we may have done irreparable harm to Vickie.
I remember there was a girl who was somewhat awkward in the grade above me & a disruptive kid in my own class, who were picked out as kids to pick on. They had "cooties", so everyone had to avoid them for their own self-preservation!
One of the great challenges of schoolchildren was to avoid becoming someone who was picked on by the other kids.
Trump was known as a bully, & you can be sure that MTG, Boebert, Cawthorn, Jordan, Gaetz, etc. were all bullies, too. But I wonder if some of them were the bullied, & are now taking their revenge on the rest of us. Bullies display no empathy, but the bullied never develop empathy, either, just growing resentment against society.
As always, Daniel, good discussion points. It’s a sad world in vast need of mental health services, as we learn every hour, almost. The study released yesterday regarding teen behavior (CDC) and pointing to girls in particular was not shocking to me. It’s been building and building for years. MTG must have been bullied in her youth. Money can’t make you happy, even though it may help.
And looking at photos of Musk before hair implants...I’m guessing he was too.
Robert, thank you for giving more voice to all of this. Daniel, and Robert, and the rest of our friends here...how can we regain decency? We must!
Regain decency. As I said below, ridicule. Satire works.
In court when someone is in contempt, the court must give a right to purge the contempt. Court sanctions can include stuff like public apologies, jail time, fines. What about: send someone like Greene to a comedy club every night for a month.
What about acts of contrition? Holy Joes say that they are necessary to receive God's forgiveness. The church used to sell indulgences. Get out of Hell free cards. Penance ran from saying a few hail Marys to flagellation, rituals like carrying the cross through the stations on Good Friday to the "Ride for Life" imposed to purify infidels during the Inquisition. Burned St. Joan at that stake.
Imagine if .Marjorie Taylor Greene, Andy Ogles, George Santos, Elon Musk were forced for spiritual contrition to publicly apologize. Where are the Holy Joes???
What if she said " Make me? " and is armed, with the bought up court majority backing her up?
I've probably said previously that besides the Biden contempt issue, she has perjured herself a couple of times. I watched her testimony in the case before the Georgia state administrative law judge. IMHO "I don't know or I don't remember" can constitute perjury.
Defamation can be a felony under GA state law. She is immune when she is in the well of the House, but has been running down innocent people..... https://www.businessinsider.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-cheers-on-alex-jones-after-defamation-verdict-2022-8
She is involved in at least one civil suit. https://legalnewsline.com/stories/635175385-court-revives-defamation-suit-against-marjorie-taylor-greene
Daniel Solomon: zHood observation. (and memory! LOL! ).
Trump's base just refuses to acknowledge that he is a bully and a fraud and is unworthy of their adulation.
Perhaps that's exactly why they adore him--to "own the libs".
As Professor Reich points out "Many Americans love Donald Trump’s loutishness". In my view, which may be simplistic, humans are just animals on a spectrum where it comes to a sense of decency. I lean toward the "nature" over "nurture" view, so I don't believe Trump fans can be shamed or trained or educated out of anything, and I'm speaking here about the MAGA types that attend his rallies, not all Republicans.These people, the MAGA"s and MTG"s, are fundamentally like him at some deep level and admire his "in your face" brand. By his celebrity he has given them permission to emulate his behavior. Any vestigial sense of shame they may have is overshadowed by the glee they feel at being given permission to act like rowdy children. Their numbers protect them from accountability as individuals. Today's GOP has simply acted as a sieve to concentrate this element of our population and Trump is just the hand shaking the sieve.
True, many Republican politicians of late remind me of the class clowns & disruptors of elementary school & junior high. They have not matured since that stage. How voters can possibly think these people are material for Congress, the governorship or presidency is beyond me.
And then there's the money.
always always follow the money
Yes, always the money.
Excellent analysis. Thank you!
I get a kick out of how traditional and conservative that sane progressives have gravitated towards. Renaissance-era thinking. The sanctity of the free rational mind and the dictates of one’s own conscience. Value ethics, like you offered. The MAGA fools have driven off the Rosseauvian cliff. Weird.
My son played high school football with a boy with ODD, until the boy trashed the locker room in anger. I can't remember if he played after that happened. It was a while ago. I do know the boy went to ACES (www.ACES.org) a school for special needs.
NFL material. We used to have panels of three members of the school board hear cases involving student discipline. I was the prosecutor. If the kid was big, despite psychological expert testimony and my recommendations, the "penalty" was monitoring by one of our assistant football coaches. We had one of the best HS programs in the country. Virtually all of those kids eventually went to college on scholarship. Some went to the NFL.
I was also on the advisory board of a "reform school" that sent a few players to Ivy league schools. We also had a "Youth Development Center" in my home town for juvie murderers, arsonists, rapists, etc. A few of those kids got scholarships upon release.
I think that many of these kids WERE rehabilitated. We had "football study hall" for all players when I was in high school. The coaches checked on the kids -- at home -- and in some cases every night. The head football coach actually obtained legal custody in a couple of cases, one allegedly a murderer, who went on to be pros. My brother got a letter as a team manager partly for using the Driver Education car to pick up players who were in custody of coaches.
Perhaps ODD is a unifying basis for gun violence? Along with poor self-esteem from childhood shaming?
Thank you for making this connection, Daniel. I’ve seen ODD up close, and it explains a lot!
Chris, in addition to your strong points, I would add that the society in general has been working to lose any moral compass we have had. It is We the People who have elected fools like Trump, Santos, and Greene (and McCarthy) to offices that should be reserved for people who actually have a moral compass and care about the people and the future of our democracy. Alas, we have an entire political party that cares only about money and power, two elements that set aside the needs of the American people.
You are right but in perspective We the people didn’t elect Trump, the Electoral College did and Why we the people- the majority are so outraged by this violent, uncontrolled behavior.
Not to mention having stood traditional values on their ears.
Ruth, may I ask, what subject did you teach and what grades?
Nancy, I taught 7 years as a Title I reading and math specialist for gr.K-3, then 19 years as the Gifted Support teacher for my district, gr.K-12. I retired 18 months ago from that job. I have actually been teaching since I was about 10, helping neighborhood kids learn letters and numbers. I have taught in many places, a range of subjects from document design to home management and cooking for newly blind people, from Sunday school to leading Girl Scout troops, from serving as a docent at the Museum of Natural History in Washington to serving as an AIDS educator. I currently tutor 8th grade math students as a volunteer.
I’m very happy to hear you are still teaching. Do you believe the loss of teaching our kids Civics, real American History, Government has anything to do with the hold of the Maga’s Caucus on The Republican politicians! Just asking, because I believe if people do not know their rights and responsibilities as America citizens we are not prepared for what’s around the corner.
And yet shame is among the first, most effective weapons of the shameless.
DZK; ; That is why they make up stuff like pizza gate and murder plots. It has to be bad enough to be shameful, so they can shame their perceived enemies.
And claim they're bein' bullied!
Implicit in the description of a psychopathic / sociopathic / antisocial personality disordered person is the absence of shame. I googled "hypothalamus antisocial personality disorder nih" and found "Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis Function in Children and Adults with Severe Antisocial Behavior and the Impact of Early Adversity" at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6132769/ , which provides (in part) in the Conclusion: "... In contrast to these mixed, but mostly negative, findings for basal cortisol, studies investigating cortisol reactivity to stress have yielded consistent evidence for hyporeactivity in children and adolescents with [disruptive behavior disorders] and adults with [Antisocial Personality Disorder] or psychopathy. Nevertheless, heterogeneity within antisocial behavior and psychiatric comorbidity both appear to influence cortisol reactivity, as [callous-unemotional] traits appear to be associated with a more pronounced pattern of hyporeactivity whereas comorbid internalizing disorders predict heightened cortisol reactivity and impaired recovery following stress. ..."
Science has established that early childhood (roughly age seven and younger) adversity "primes" a person for childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder.
Yes, we know how to produce sociopaths and as a society we do it relentlessly. Especially the wealthy and powerful.
Get a load of this: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-alleged-liar-in-congress-just-dropped/ar-AA17lcd0
What is it about the Republican party ‽
Wie macht ein yid?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGz_eVHddfo&list=RDzGz_eVHddfo&index=1
These are the people who "claim" to be fighting for Christianity!!! Claim to be 'evangelicals'! When clearly they are not. They are just manipulating Christianity in order to gain/retain money/power/influence. This is evident because they are not following the example of Christ. As a result, they perpetuate a false doctrine/example that lead/justify others to act in the same way.
While I do not dispute your observations here, I believe they are not sufficient to provide an explanation. Conscience and moral compasses exist within a cultural context; it is what gives them directionality. IMO, our culture has FAME as its central sought after attribute; social media is the message. The antipodal pairings of fame and infamy, honor and shame, etc. have been displaced by a pile of 'likes' and facial recognitions. I have no idea how our culture will change, but I am sure in time it will change.
Yes. In the 1950s or so, Bertrand Russell identified that, culturally, Money, Power, Sex, and Celebrity drive human behavior.
Good thoughts, but breaking the cycle of reverence for money and power is a tough nut. Both rich and poor never have enough of them. Fifty years ago I came across two little boys playing with a puppy, one obviously the owner. I made over the little furball while the other kid stood aside, scowling. Finally he said, "My daddy's gonna get me a better puppy. It costes a hunnerd and three dollars." There's your focus, from the mouths of babes. It's the money, not the puppy. It's a culture that will do anything to preserve that value system, even to selling out its kids.
So how did such a mentality permeate our culture? It's a very complex issue, involving the old Protestant work ethic that hard work will be rewarded in proportion to one's' efforts (we know that doesn't work), indicating God's blessings, which are translated into monetary terms. Monetary wealth therefore receives the status of divine sanction, eventually regardless of the means used to achieve it. The necessity to constantly acquire expensive "things" has been inculcated into the general public in order to promote sales.
I was raised Protestant and hard work was definitely of high importance. The hard work mentality was as much for others as self. It was hard work in order to be frugal, help others, get educated, do what is healthy so we wouldn't burden the doctors and hospitals. It was not selfish hard work like we see so much in today's me me me attitude.
Absolutely. Our culture has been conditioned to place one's own interests first. That is the essence of capitalism. Any good or service is only delivered if requisite profit accrues to the deliverer. Conversely, any activity that promises to deliver profit, good, bad or indifferent, will be tolerated in accordance with the amount of profit to be gained. Contributory "hard work" is of no consequence (consider the relative pay of say, teachers versus hedge fund manipulators, who neither weave nor spin, yet are most richly rewarded on the basis of how much revenue they turn over) If humans wanted to work hard, we'd still be dragging loads around instead of rolling them about on wheels. The "smart" ones are the ones who work the system most to their advantage. The wealthy don't get that way by "working hard". They get that way by working the system, getting others working hard to make them wealthy.
I hate to dump "the wealthy" into one category. I know many wealthy people who are very smart, very moral, and very very hard working from a young age to past what I consider retirement age. And I think we need those special people. And, yes, there are also many wealthy immoral people who have taken advantage of people with fewer skills than they. Laws are supposed to limit the power of those who are not moral and may not even be so smart or creative except when it comes to making money.
There will always be people like this, but they haven't been this popular in our history. The followers who give them the attention they want are the real problem. As long as the shameless get what they want; they will continue to act this way.
I just sent this reply to another person who commented on what I wrote:
No, not hopeless. Power, money, sex and celebrity are the (predominant) goals Bertrand Russell identified after World War II (presumably analyzing historical figures of that time). The 2010 article in Current Psychiatric Reports analyzes the biochemistry of childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Understanding how early childhood adversity can result in those disorders provides a hopeful perspective enabling understanding and compassionate interaction / treatment of those (untreated troubled children) whose predominant behaviors are driven by money, power, sex and celebrity. Certainly not a facile solution to the (valid) social problems you identify, but a start grounded in science.
Sound reasoning, but who is going to administer these fact-based values? Not the churches, who are just as money-starved as anyone. Not the schools, where any science-based approach is immediately quashed by school boards under pressure from extremist anti-science factions. My daughter's specialty as a teacher is early childhood development in a somewhat less than progressive county, and you can imagine the frustrations she deals with. As you said, not a facile approach but I applaud the direction.
There appears to be a group of the oligarchy that feels they have attained God-like power and now are even attempting immortality. It’s reported that even Kushner is taking better care of his health because he might live forever and Peter Thiel takes the vampire approach by using the blood of young people (kinda scary he’s adopted a child!). I don’t think we can automatically attribute the values and ideas of the ordinary person to this group.
See also: https://www.historytoday.com/archive/months-past/death-countess-elizabeth-bathory
Chris R, your comment is spot on.
No, not hopeless. Power, money, sex and celebrity are the (predominant) goals Bertrand Russell identified after World War II (presumably analyzing historical figures of that time). The 2010 article in Current Psychiatric Reports analyzes the biochemistry of childhood conduct disorder and adult antisocial personality disorder. Understanding how early childhood adversity can result in those disorders provides a hopeful perspective enabling understanding and compassionate interaction / treatment of those (untreated troubled children) whose predominant behaviors are driven by money, power, sex and celebrity. Certainly not a facile solution to the (valid) social problems you identify, but a start grounded in science.
We are weary from constant exploitation especially by businesses, corporations, politicians and our government. Even the churches that have mixed politics into their sermons.
When we realize the responsibilities of citizens in a democracy and make sure we teach the skills needed (critical thinking, history, honesty, civics, and citizen responsibility), then we will become a stronger democracy with equal opportunity, morals, and good leadership.
I wrote about this too, and good grief, the critics that came out to tell me how wrong I was, and that Trump is actually a really great person. It was hilarious the way people tried to defend him, and make light of what happened.
The death of shame is right! Republicans have no shame anymore!
I am not so sure that only Republicans have a hold on shamelessness. This decline as Robert observes has been long coming in the public forum. As we become accustomed to toleration we suspend the underpinnings of virtues and values previously common to us as a people. This is much broader than any one political party. It just feels better to point a finger at one.
Except that the abject shamelessness we've witnessed over the last few years, particularly with the advent of Trump, is exclusively a Republican phenomenon. If you have some serious examples that are more than occasional outliers that suggest otherwise, please, do enlighten.
The tenor of your reply would suggest a debate rather than discussion. Indeed, even without responding any suggestion would be characterized “an outlier.” I respectfully decline the invitation. Thank you.
Jaime, OK, we needed to hear the "everybody does it" comment. Yes, significant parts of our culture are becoming "shameless," but not equally across the society, as you do know. When one political party has nearly entirely left their moral compass behind in favor of "whatever it takes to win," it is hard not to see this as a whole society thing. And, when our media covers the lying, cheating, and gaslighting in the same manner it covers honest transactions, it keeps many from identifying what is true. A whole segment of the Republican Party thinks Trump and Kump are honest brokers who actually care about them. Beyond their verbal and Twitter claims, there is no evidence of this phantom caring, but it doesn't matter. The lies cling and the truth is usually lost to them. I don't want the "believers" to be ashamed, just to wake up and use a little of the thinking gift they were given to see what is real and what is not. And, "everyone does it," in this case, isn't real!
Ruth, you make good points. However, there is shamelessness and skullduggery to go around, quite sadly. And sometimes groupthink that is dreadful. The Rs, IMHO, are worse on that count and kowtow to Trumpf like we never would. I think for the sake of the “soul of the nation”, as JB says, and it really IS NOT A JOKE...we Democrats have to figure this out.
My son worries about civilization collapse. I argue with him, yet don’t we all have nagging worries about that?
I once presented a panel on climate before the Center for Existential Risk at University of Cambridge. Some may wish to read Dr. Graham Allison’s book regarding avoiding the “Thucydides Trap” with China ten years ago. We are in that time. Right Now.
I’m hoping our inner angels emerge and this great American ship, indeed our world ship can be righted with kindness, equality, justice and fairness. We have to try. I’m sure you told your students that.
As CSN song said, “It’s always the darkest before the dawn.”
PaulaO, you are right about the challenges, but also about the hope build into justice, fairness, equality, and the rest. Those are so much more rewarding than anger and hatred, but alas, so many have known none of them. When one group, in this case, white men, have had control over everything for so long, it is hard to keep the fairness, justice, equality, and caring alive and moving forward. We have made inroads, but the white male contingent is fighting back, and they have most of the weapons including history, the law, the media, physical strength and willingness to do violence, and the ability to shame. Despite all that, I do teach hope, a challenge in a school district with around 90% of the students eligible for free school lunches, a pretty good measure of poverty. They deserve everything as does every child, but they don't get much and often don't see much of a future for themselves. Shame lurks everywhere here as does hope. How strange!
I also worry about the collapse of civilization. I think it could happen fairly soon if, for example, Republicans take over, Russia defeats Ukraine, China invades Taiwan, nuclear war or WWIII breaks out, or we end up in a civil war.
Even if we manage to avoid all that, environmental disaster, ecosystem collapse & mass extinction brought on by climate chaos & considerable other anthropogenic harm to the environment will eventually bring extreme pressure to human civilization. The way we have been handling it, especially the most powerful countries like Russia, China & the US, which is to grab & usurp all resources we can find, will quickly bring us to war, famine & the end of civilization.
The only way to avert that is to conserve, economize, share & distribute fairly & do what is necessary to mitigate, protect from & adapt to a much harsher climate.
Very well said. Thank you.
Jaime Roman ; But Democrats did not attack the Capitol two years ago, nor did they stuff the courts with those who want to deny more than half the people basic medical care that was 'settled law' according to the 'judges' who perjured themselves in their confirmation hearings .among other things.
That is the only thing we can do at this time.
As I recall, six years ago many chanted “Not my President” despite the electoral results? My concern is that each side seeks a moral victory over the other such that we cannot talk to one another. I have avoided political affiliation because I vote the person and the issue without regard to the affiliated political party. My parents are from Nicaragua. I am a septuagenarian now. The media and political environment has slowly declined from the world I experienced in the 50s and later. But, at my age, I also take some comfort that focus on “outliers” does not define us as a people anymore than, for example, a focus on “criminal defendants” defines a people.
The current GOP has no candidate I would vote for. Period
At present, I concur. I defer a decision until faced with a real choice.
The majority voted for Biden, even though there may have been some chanting "Not my President". I am unenrolled and try to make the best selection.
They all think they don’t need to be ashamed but if Kevin McCarthy would start fines when they start with their B.S. and I mean substantial fines, maybe they would be choosing decorum over boorishness. It was done in the past why not now?
Unfortunately, Republicans don’t own it, there is plenty to go around.
John Goodman ; There is a preponderance of evidence that " both sides ism " does not apply here, at least not at this time in history.
Is this the low point in US society? Will civility return? Who is teaching children to respect themselves and others? And why did President Biden not stop his speech and ask the ignorant and disrespectful and stupid members to leave? In my opinion, he should have, while the whole world was watching. That would have shifted power in that moment, at least for that moment, and it would have made it right. Those are the kind of actions that must happen, constantly, in order for things to be made right. It should become the mission of every person with a social conscience. Congress is not a stage for performers. It needs to be restored to a place where there is serious debate and deliberation about serious matters.
I respectfully disagree. President Biden had no power or ability to enforce such a request; since the Fweedumb Squad have no morals whatsoever, it wouldn't have bothered the shameless