Most Trumpers are dirt poor, but they've been listening to the wrong people, people who blame the Democrats for high prices. Another large number were raised almost in isolation, and bigotry, and the fear of a brown person being in charge scares them, as they remember how they treated brown people in the past and expect to receive the same in return if brown people get in charge.
GUILT..... yes, I have been thinking this is responsible for much of the free floating fear. Guilt for the bad thoughts, the bad deeds , the primitive brain driving the reactions. ' Maybe those black and brown folk will hold me accountable for the bad things I did"... Frankly, someone should.
Everyone gains when we have good race relations, when we treat each other with dignity & courtesy. Trust slowly builds among us. We are all Americans & are in this together, & we should be looking out for each other & the common good. Or at least that is the attitude of true patriots.
Trump supporters are everywhere- little old lady down the street with a “ fuck Biden shirt hanging in her garage … big mouth man next street over telling me his dog can attack me as I walk down the street - the couple two streets over telling me Trump will straighten out the world soon as I ask them “ what did he do for the poor and homeless ?- you can spot a Trumpie a mile away - they’re even in my family - they have no answers for HOW Trump will fix anything - it’s like they believe Dumbo at Disneyland is real.
And far too many Americans are watching blatant fascism take over right before our very eyes and have no clue as to what our biggest priority should be this election. 1) Too many do not pay attention to REAL news (not that any sort of media is making it front and center as it SHOULD be); 2) We are far too spoiled in this country. Most of us have no idea what it is like living under an authoritarian rule. And have no clue what the signs that it is coming are. None - although many of those racing to leave their own countries and doing anything to get into this one could describe it -- wait till they find out what awaits them once they get in. We need to wake up fast..... but I guess if you put your heart, soul, and wallet into supporting one seemingly "strong" "leader" then you begin to realize that maybe he's a criminal and maybe doesn't even care about you, it's hard to admit you've been snookered. That kind of emotion, plus ignorance and inability to think critically are doing us in. But as to why so many traditional gop in DC and just down the street - even those who should know better & and are actually in a position to do significant things to stop trump & his lackeys - continue to aid, abet, and enable him is beyond me, and WAY beyond disappointing.
One would think women would begin to get the message if their daughters don't want to have 14 children, endless pregnancy, or be raped with no choices, and have become 1/2 person in this US , thanks to the inability for white men mostly to power share. They would NOT pass the ERA.. WAKE up Women, you are nada now.. SEW YOIUR own RED cloak, I am going to learn how to use a bumpstock.
Ask them to check out how life in Poland or Hungary is. Then check back. No consumer protections, literally all the crap you hate now only worse. Far worse.
As of 2023, 67,076,966 Americans received SSI. I’m sure more do now.
Republicans have threatened to kill it. Demean beneficiaries as “takers.”
Yet some SSI recipients are registered Republican!
It's ironic that some on SSI slit their own throats.
Every dime an SSI beneficiary gets is spent and proves that John Maynard Keynes was right -- causing a positive ripple effect. “Demand creates its own supply.”
Those benefits go into the hands of practically every business.
1. SSI, created in 1972 replaced state disability programs that were often inefficient, discriminatory and underfunded. As long as I can remember, Republicans threatened to return the disability program to the states. During the time that Jim Bunning was chair of the House Ways and Means Social Security subcommittee, this was policy.
I can testify that many of the committee staff had previously been employees of state agencies and recommended it. SSA uses a “sequential evaluation “ in disability claims and the first two steps are performed at the “State agency” level. https://www.ssa.gov/disability/determination.htm
2. Over time, Republicans argued that SSI should be subject to “new federalism,” a division of power between a National Government and State governments. In Title II SSA cases, the state agencies also evaluate disability claims, but the claims are paid by trust funds, not from the general budget funds. Some of the judges at SSA had been state disability judges. At first they were designated only to handle SSI cases.
3. The viability of returning the SSI cases to the states was agued within he Social Security subcommittee and at the Social Security Advisory Board.
“The Trump proposal would cut SSI by more than $8 billion over the next decade, shrinking benefits for roughly a quarter of a million children with disabilities by between 38 and 66 percent. It would also increase SSI’s administrative costs and improper payments”.
5. Libertarianism and the Pragmatic Case for a Universal Basic Income
6. Back to Milton Freidman, Universal basic income (UBI), a social welfare proposal in which all citizens of a given population regularly receive a minimum income in the form of an unconditional transfer payment, i.e., without a means test or need to work would substitute for SSI and other poverty programs.
State Flexibility for Supplemental Security Income SSI provides
cash payments to aged, blind, or disabled persons. SSI has also been expanded beyond its original purpose to include payments to the parents of disabled children. Under the current program, states have incentives to push families to enroll on SSI.143 Tragically, children who received SSI payments often become dependent on the program as adults. This budget gives more control of the program and its spending to states through block grants. This would allow all 50 states to experiment and better serve their citizens, such as through empowering those individuals to enjoy the dignity of work and service if they are able.
The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program provides cash assistance to people who are disabled, aged, or both and who have low income and few assets. In 2018, 15 percent of SSI recipients, or 1.2 million people, are projected to be disabled children under age 18, receiving an average monthly benefit of $686. To receive benefits, those children must have marked, severe functional limitations and usually must live in a household with low income and few assets.
Option
This option would eliminate SSI benefits for disabled children.
I've got more. Republican study committees over the years.
It actually is! SSDI and SSI are both taken from the social security pot. Look it up. It used to be part of the "welfare" system when state run. Now its part of ths SSA system. For people who never worked enough quarters to get SSDI. Its financial need based disability. Get educated before spreading lies as if you know what uou are talking about. SSDI and SSI and senior retirement are all Social Security. Why do you think SSA can think about/predict when they run out of money??? Because its them!
Undocumented, nonsense, those folks have been all over the news for 9+ years, so even if we don't have a close friend or family member who is a Trumper or Trumpette, we have a sense of who they are and can feel some of their pain and abuse by Trump and friends. However, I suspect everyone on this thread and beyond knows someone who fits the description.
Ruth Sheets true! But there Are tRump supporters who don't even like him : The very wealthy and racist who love him for robbing the Treasury for them and deflecting rage from them. They are behind the culture wars and misogyny. The book banning and abortion banning, the legislation that allows gerrymandering and the theft of our attempts to improve self rule and real Freedom!
True Laurie, the plutocracy uses culture warriors, like Trump does, as a tool.
I also take note that there seems to be a positive correlation between the degree of religious fanaticism, and wealth. For instance the richest men in Texas, the ones that basically fund and own the Republican party are also fanatic Christians.
This is non denominational, because Barre Seid, son of Russian Jewish Immigrants, bequeathed the Federalist Society 1.6 billion dollars.
William Farrar ; If a particular mindset is useful to indoctrinate people with, it can be worth its weight in gold, even if is bereft of spirituality. Just convince women and girls that they are to be subjects of their husbands,(If they have them), for starters. Tell them that if they become pregnant without wanting or planning to, they MUST give birth to that child, even if it was from rape, or incest! It is "God's" will ; College plans, emotional conflicts and pain ; nothing is as important as following the rule of the Lord , (Which the usually male leaders of the church make as they interpret and see fit). Unfortunately for these fertile females, these "holy men' don't know anything about female reproductive anatomy or complications that can be fatal if not managed and treated immediately! They don't know or care about the Constitution, either!
It seems to me that religion is about control. The wealthy "religious fanatics" are not actually practicing the tenets of the religion they espouse, more using it as a frifting mechanism like Trump does. Additionally, the wealthy understand the need for a COMPLIANT expanded work force they are able to usurp, hence the issues around women's right to determine their own future/child birth.
William, it seems a lot of people use religion as a tool for "connecting" with people. Most people don't question the faith of other people because for many faith is a personal thing. Because of this, a lot of unscrupulous folks claim some kind of faith it is unlikely they have. Trump is the model for this with his claims of the bible being his favorite book. No one ever challenges him on it so a lot of his cult believe him even though there is absolutely no evidence Trump as ever read any of it and since he doesn't attend church, he doesn't even know what is in it. He does know a lot of the speech patterns, though. The faith thing doesn't have to be Christianity or Judaism, or Islam or any other identified faith because all the faiths are used by the power-hungry to subdue and mollify the folks who actually have some of the faith they claim. So, religion becomes a tool for them to gain power they don't deserve and often lots of money, but their "faith" is in their own ability to manipulate people.
I know many. But I keep my self on the other side of the country lol. My entire family is in the south where I grew up. I talk to trumpers several times a week. Less and less obviously lately, and conversation is very brief. So yes I know them up close and personal unfortunately
Undocumented, how kind of you. I have no idea why you should feel sorry for me. I have a pretty good life, I care deeply about people, appreciate the common good because even as a blind woman, I find most people are kind and do not try to take advantage of me. I believe in the truth, am an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, and taught some of the most wonderful students and had amazing colleagues in one of the poorest school districts in my state. I feel sorry for you that you have not been able to do all the things I have done and are as I am, still hopeful that things will be better.
Ruth - You are an amazing woman!! You inspire me! This is my only way I can like your post but if I could (please substack fix this glitch) I would like it more than once.
Accurate information can help dispel the lies of the orange menace and cohorts. Trumpers never seem to be able to cipher the reality of truth, versus the fog of orange mendacities.
I do, and they flatly fear non whites, immigrants, and hold wildly anti democratic views...they wouldn't mind a king, as if that would impart some sense of royalty upon them. They are not fiscal conservatives... they were believing fantasies.
Include in that comment, Leslie, the non white immigrants and descendants of immigrants, who support Trump and DeSantis, and their misogynistic, patriarchal agenda.
Undocumented Commentator: My question to you is, why would anyone choose to have a lying, corrupt, incompetent, demented, immature, authoritarian narcissist as their President? He's mean, vindictive, and crazy enough to punish the whole country for his shortcomings. You support this?
Malignant Narcissist, Axis ll, Cluster B-4 Look it up and you will find a picture of the "Orange One." PPL don't recognize the complexity of his mental illness. He needs to be in a locked ward for life, we will be safe from him and he will be safe from himself and what he's capable of.
To whom are you responding dnkarr? Substack links your respoonse to Shervin Marsh
If yo are responding to Sheila Small, are you saying that ignorance bigotry do not expound in Florida. I guess DeSantis, the Villages, etc are an illusion.
No, William, dnkarr is responding to the same "person" (or is it a bot?) that Shervin Marsh & Sheila Small are responding to, which is "Undocumented Commentator".
Most of my classmates from Campion Academy, Loveland CO, and Highland Academy, Portland, TN are Trumpers. I've been called woke to my face. Viki knows a few and I went to school with a bunch of them.
Woke is a term originating from black culture meaning....'Keep your head on a swivel.." Be aware of scheisters out to screw you). MAGA uses it & doesn't even know what they're talking about. Woke is a GOOD thing. E.g. if D steals power we will ALL need to be woke!
The thing is that the magakkkult can't understand "woke" or "Liberal" so they turn the words into a slur.
Yeah I am PROUD woke and a Liberal. Yeah I do recognize the ugly things this country has done and still does. Yes I believe in equality and individual rights and that the government doesn't control my body. Etc. etc.
I should be so lucky. Went to lunch with a group of ladies and the mist conservative said JFK, Jr. and Princess Di are still alive and "sheltered" and that she has listened to them speak on Patriot Radio! She also said Biden died in 2019 and a double was put in his place. SMH.
I tend to look at it this way. Trump has given bullying a new position. He allows and encourages hate towards the “other.” Some people love to get away with doing “bad things.” Also, it seems safer to some people to align with the bully. This way they will be “taken care of.” He will dump them of course and use them. But psychologically. They feel protected. He will protect them from the immigrants, from financial collapse, and any “other” that is dangerous.
The comments are very interesting . I do think that Social Security, Medicare and more need to be evaluated and revised. I am a ( senior now) US and EU citizen. These systems need to be evaluated and changed… and first determining what we want provide to US citizens … effective healthcare and more… training, education, advancement.,, It is 2024. Much has changed but the purpose for Americans has not ..,
We need to ‘grow up’ . Be strong. Make smart advancements… oh yes with intelligence, thoughtfulness and that be ultimately kind.
Ehhhhhhh. Some trumplicans are FAR too dumb and ignorant and selfish to be feeling "guilt." ESPECIALLY the morbidly obese retard himself! (I know it's "exceptional" now, but how is that insulting???)
Mary Ann, yes, they were not dirt poor, but they were emotionally bankrupt and the Trump-infused hatred, anger, fear, and resentment filled in the holes of their lives and gave them folks to despise and they could do it in the name of god, or they thought so. Common good was not on their minds
Emotionally bankrupt, YES, I totally agree with you but we must ask ourselves how and why these people came to feel this way. I personally blame predatory capitalism that seems to go hand-in-hand with acute individualism. The sad part is that many Americans, at least the ones I've had the pleasure of having good conversations with, seem to see capitalism and individualism as their God, the only North possible and desirable for the US and its citizens. I get the feeling you need to redefine yourselves and reinterpret past events that led you to this moment in history. Heck, all countries do but the US is too influential in the world and so weball watch you with aprehension. So, how do we break the spell and get people to look at each other again? We preach to the converted or reach only a few souls at the time. That is not enough. I am very worried about the generalised bankruptcy of the soul I see all around me. Even naturalists and yoga folks that I usually had so much in common with are now anti-vaxxers!! What do you do then?
Mara, I think we didn't take people's stress seriously enough. When people are too stressed, they will latch onto whatever is in front of them, and for a lot of people what was in front of them was Fox Not Nearly News and there is very little that's hopeful there. So, it looks like it is going to have to be all of us reaching out to them to change their perspective. Telling them they are stupid or ignorant or something else negative will not help. They will just become more entrenched in their negativity. More positive messages through the various media platforms along with reports of what is really going on could make a difference. The people need better-paying jobs, work that has meaning, stronger public schools, and not giving into their ideas that will do harm to them and their children, like banning books, teaching religion in school, and putting Trump as the first or second report on nearly every newscast. I am sure there are folks out here who are far more creative than I, Prof. Reich being one of many. I bet they have lots of good ideas now that we need to focus on making things better. It is worth a try.
The poor don't vote, it seems. The blue collar vote is too often against their own interest.
They feel hopelessly stuck, and in fear of losing the little that they have, while infected with the Horatio Alger myth that leads them to believe that they are only temporarily disadvantaged millionaires. And if they aren't thwarted by powers beyond their control, like the Jews, they need someone to look down upon to make them maintain their illusion of superiority.
Alexandra Pelosi is a documentarian, and after Obama's election she toured America
Her Documentary "Right America, Feeling Wronged" featured a bibbed overalled toothless redneck in a single wide, her standing amidst garbage, asking him why he was against Food stamps. he said "because them lazy coloreds, get them". she replied but you do as well, his response "well that's OK because I earned them"
How are the cases of E. Jean Carrol and Stormy Daniels different? I don’t know how/why Trump ended up in that dressing room. In Daniel’s case she was advised by her agent to meet Trump to discuss an appearance on his television show. Carrol is able to sue Trump and is awarded millions. Daniels is lied to, and forced into a sexual encounter she clearly didn’t want. I think she would have been laughed out of the courtroom if she even attempted to use our judicial system to hold Trump accountable. I don’t know why Daniel’s seeking damages is a moral failure but Carrol’s lawsuit is justifiable.
Richard, you are correct. I lived in northern New Jersey for 12 years. Living in N J requires 2 to 21/2 times the amount of income required for Northern Georgia.
Of course those are anecdotal descriptions. There will always be exceptions. Would be nice if the table you provided a link to were updated for 2020...or even better 2024.
My feeling is that MAGAts are kind of a mish mash in terms of why they support Trump. e.g. not all for the same reasons. The data would be extremely helpful as anecdotes don't always tell the truth.
Bill Gates walks into a bar full of deadbeats.......
The majority of 90Th Percentile Income salaries currently range between $129,000 (25th percentile) to $250,000 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $288,000 annually across the United States. According to Statista, in the third quarter of 2023, the top 10% of earners in the United States owned 66.6% of the total wealth, while the bottom 50% owned only 2.6%. The 90th percentile of household wealth in 2021 was $1,623,000, meaning that 1 in 10 households had wealth exceeding $1.6 million.
It may not constitute "dirt poor", but it hovers on the very fring of middle class, maybe below depending on family sjze and occupation. Many work multiple jobs to just get by. If you want to look at generational wealth building, that salary level gets you nowhere. It barely gets you a small house in most markets. And let's ot forget the Fed and State and local and sales taxes that must come out of that annual gross.
You know, Shervin, I never thought about that! Maybe that is the reason these white Christian nationalists fear people of color leading our country. They are afraid of being treated the way people of color were treated before. The sad truth is, if they knew, people of color just simply want equality and that is all. They wouldn't 'retaliate' for the way their ancestors were treated. I never once saw or heard that President Obama ever did anything like that! Thank you for that insight!
Peggy Freeman, it is for some a concern. When Obama was elected, my friend's sister and her adult daughters went out and bought as many guns as they could. They thought that because now there was a black president, black people were going to be coming into their houses and stealing their tv's and vcr's. They live in a very rural area in a southern state. It, of course, is absurd but they weren't born believing that. They'd been strongly conditioned. By politicians, talk radio, church leaders, schools, families, community, etc.?
Hi M Tree! It is hard for me to wrap my mind around people being so afraid after President Obama was elected! There wasn't any reason for anyone to think that black people would begin to rob and pillage!! I agree that people have been conditioned by those you mentioned. It seems to be a vicious cycle! Children grow up believing what those people have told them and react accordingly. I wish that those same children would view the world differently than they do, but I would not know how to make that change for them.
Peggy Freeman, yes, it's so insane, it's hard to fathom. For me, in my life experiences, love and understanding for them having been conditioned that way (not condoning) is the only thing that will transform them. They need to feel safe and be given dignity while at the same time I let them know through my words or actions that their belief isn't rational and is missing the wide angle view.
One of the key concepts here is safety in a community that allows an individual entity to survive. That situation requires common beliefs, action, goals.
Tis true, it is social conditioning. I lived for a spell with my fathers family in the Arkansas-Louisiana area. Poor whites, in 1870 and 1880 their neighbors per the census were black.
In 1964, Mammy (my grandmother) asked me "Why is them coloreds so upset, don't we treat them well enough", Now she didn't have a hateful bone in her body and was not consciously a racist, she also carried memories as if they were her own of cousins spying on Federal supply lines out of Vicksburg, chased back to the family farm, burned out of the barn by Federals, and shot as they ran across the field.
It is a hand me down legacy,embedded into the culture.
William Farrar, thank you so much for sharing the stories about your Mammy. I once read something profound that stuck with me. The writer said, that if I had had the exact same experiences as the other person (fill in the blank, for example, with someone who has hurt you), my words and actions would be exactly the same as the other person. My initial reaction was, no that's not true. But as I thought it over, I concluded, it was true, how could it not be. It gave a whole new meaning to the word, grace, for me.
Hmm I don't remember anyone who has hurt me. I do remember giving as good as i got, My parents maybe, but as I grew older and wiser I understood why they way they were, and forgave and loved them. I outlived all of my relatives save a cousin 6 months my senior.
Hurt is baggage that one carries with them, knowingly, as some kind of precious memory.
Better to chuck hurt in the waste bin, and be rid of it,else it cripples oneself, and physically diminish ones quality of life and length of life.
This fear is mostly baseless. But continuing oppression & mistreatment of others by whites builds resentment in those being oppressed. We had been going in the right direction by treating others with sensitivity, decency & regard, but then the bigotry that came with Trumpism reversed that trend. This reactionary backlash by bigoted whites is undoing all the progress we had made & making it much more likely that their fears will be realized.
I agree, Jaime! It seems like for every step we make forward for a better America, people like trump come along and we are pushed three steps back!! It is a constant fight!
Peggy, antisemitism, misogyny, LGBT phobia are not the exclusive domain of white Christian Nationalists, unfortunately it is rampant in Islam and communities of color.
Mark Robinson, Kanye, Tim Scott, Clarence Thomas and the two dudes who climbed on the stage with Trump in the Bronx are not exceptions. Al Sharpton, Joy Reid and Rev Barber are the exceptions.
It seems that since Oct. 7th attack on Israel many young people are now antisemitic which is so sad. They don’t even understand why they are antisemitic.
They will claim that they are not antisemitic and that being anti Israel is not antisemitic, but Israel is a Jewish Ethno state, surrounded by a sea of enemies Islamic ethno states, and there are 57 of those in the UN and only one Jewish ethnostate,
This current fad of anti semitism is fed by Muslim Arab students, and enabling professors, all of whom are either attending or teaching in American universities thanks to American petro dollars.
IMO the basis of much antisemitism is jealousy. A Christian motive is exemplified by Mel Gibson who called them Christ killers. An Islamic motive is found in the Quran. it starts in Medina, and Mo's lust for their wealth.
Although, Obama had the audacity to wear a tan suit. Quite a contrast to the little armies of Trumplicans, including our House Speaker, appearing daily in standard issue dark navy suits with red ties outside the NY State Courthouse, isn’t it?
Karl Rove is the father of the tactic of attacking strengths. Thus a genuine war triple amputee hero Max Clelland became in their propaganda , a soward because he was opposed to Dubya's war of choice.
It matters not what Obama or Biden does, every sniffle is a cause celebre for diminution.
OMG, a black man wearing a light colored suit. How could anything be more offensive? (And isn’t it interesting that the daily parade of Trumplicans arriving at a NY State Court near you are each wearing a navy blue suit and a red tie—including the US Speaker of the House?)
Oh, I didn't realize that it was offensive. Is there a reason for that? Does it signify something to the ones that were offended? I'm sorry, I just did not know the reason behind it! The navy suit and red tie I understand. They believe they are showing solidarity with their orange leader. It didn't offend me, it just made me laugh because I thought about the Blues Brothers and their suits and ties and sunglasses!!
Someone said they didn't have uniforms, but navy suit with red tie works for me. Looks weird to me if I think about it. And with Obama being Irish should have been comforting to the racists. Are they prejudice against the Irish too?
But what is this large ugly movement against the common good. Limbaugh, FOX, evil Christian, white supremacist. Trump is a symbol, but what is the huge ugly thing we are fighting? Can we work around them. They have a lot of money (or power), and they want to lead. I don't want to be led.
Gordon, it is the one drop ideation of race. One drop of non white blood, means that you are non white,unless you are a proud member of the KKK, Neo NAZI's, or the Trump cult.
The Irish when they first came to this shore were treated as non whites as well, and into the 20th Century there were signs spotted on Boston lawns, dogs and irish keep off.
And once established and lost their accent they became avid racists as well, to wit the Bill Oreilly's, Sean Hannitys and dare I say the Boston police force, maybe police forces nation wide.
“Uncle” Clarence is exactly that. A white wolf in black sheep’s clothing, wanting nothing more than a ton of money, and willing to repeatedly bend over for billionaires like Harlan Crow for whatever he and oh so white Ginny could get (for his ass).
It is more likely Peggy, that they look at their own banal lives, see themselves hopelessly stuck,and in fear of back sliding, but have the those that they consider to be lesser creatures, not quite human to look down upon
That is such a sad thought, William. To think that people have to find someone to hate in order to make themselves feel better. It must be a miserable existence for them!
Shervin, you are right about those folks. They also mostly live in the Confederacy and Confederate wannabee states. They are generally used by the guys in power to stay in power.
Then their needs are ignored or those guys in power lie that it isn't they who didn't get the bridge fixed or stop a private equity firm from buying and closing their only hospital. They say they are right as white people to be scared of brown and black people because "those people will hurt you; they want what you have." They lie again "it isn't our fault the schools are so bad. You can always go to that private religious school and we'll give you money to do it, well, not much money, but you can find the rest or be stuck in the public schools with those _____ kids." How do we reach those used and abused folks? I am not sure, but speaking of the common good and pointing out where it is at work in their communities and who it is that is working on it would be a good start.
Terry, I use the term "wannabee states to indicate that those states were not part of the original confederacy, but now have adopted many of the beliefs and practices of the confederacy: Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, West Virginia, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Idaho, the Dakotas, and maybe Montana. There are a lot of those wannabee states, and no former confederate state except maybe Virginia has dropped out of the Confederacy. North Carolina and Georgia have made some headway, but certainly are not there. What are the characteristics, racism very active, misogyny and relegating women to positions of non-power, dominance of white evangelical christians, whining for "states' rights" (as long as it gets the guys in charge, more power to control the lives of the people living in the state, a heavily gerrymandered legislature, being duped by rich white folks into going against their best interest. It's sad, but real.
Terry, I was concerned about MI and WI too. I did forget to add Ohio, but I think Ohio does not know what it wants to be. It is almost as though Ohio and perhaps some of the other states too are trying to do better, but can't shake off the powerful white supremacists who masquerade as something else. I know the ancestors of Ohio, Iowa, and Indiana who fought for the Union and to end slavery would be shocked to find that 160 years later, their descendants are as racist and closed-minded as folks anywhere in the Confederacy.
You know Indiana has quite the Klan legacy. In the 30's our Governor was a member of the largest chapter in the US right here in Indianapolis. It was always somewhat racist while I was growing up in the 40's, 50s etc. Not sure it didn't take with me although my parents didn't talk about it at all even though they sometime used the n word. My sister and I just didn't react to it and of course never spoke like that. I guess we just knew it wasn't right? It also helped that our parents weren't very good at role modeling the race stuff.
I don’t know if I would characterize most Trump supporters as “dirt poor”. I have seen MAGA signs on large estates and many people that I know who follow him are rather well off. “Dirt poor” folks can’t afford to take off on a Tuesday to hop on a plane to DC to listen to a speech and attempt to overthrow an election. While Trump surely has supporters who see him as an economic savior, millionaires, billionaires and Christian Nationalists are the ones funding the campaign to protect what they see as under threat by the Democrats.
Shervin, and if they were not financially poor, they were certainly emotionally impoverished and desperate to believe in something they could understand, and hatred, anger, fear, and resentment work well for these people. They can regularly nurse all four of them and can build their whole world around them. It isn't healthy, but it can get them through when they didn't achieve everything they intended to get in their lives. These are not the most adaptable people and when someone like Trump comes along, he gives them something to cling too that mirrors their own negative emotions and they don't even have to be founded on anything, especially if Trump tells them they are doing just fine and he will fight for them. They miss Trump's cynicism because they are so wrapped up in their own stuff.
Undocumented, polls can lie, and often do. Who were the pollsters asking? Were the respondents being honest? We know Trump and Kump are not honest a good portion of the time and are OK with it. Did they think the pollsters were "woke?" If so, they would love to get something over on those guys. In short, some have some money (of course those closest to Trump have lots of money because that's the only reason he would permit them near him. It appears he doesn't have much but contempt for the rest of his cult.
Maybe people who voted for Trump exaggerate more to a pollster how much money they make compared to people who voted for Biden! Poll results by themselves prove nothing, need more in-depth research and analysis. That's why I generally ignore the results of polls when used to justify someone's opinion.
I see your polls, but that differs from my personal lived experience and that of my former classmates. A poll is a poll, and my experience is what I've been though.
Shervin, I would be more likely to believe what you know in person too. The bulk of Trump's support seems to be people who vote for a guy who looks like he has power to say what they would like to say and do what they would like to do no matter who is hurt, in fact, hurting people would be a bonus for many of them ala January 6th and the various mass shootings involving Trumpers. I can't help feeling sorry for them because they truly believe their Donnie loves them and have no idea that the love is completely unrequited and they are just being used to give the orange guy more power to do more harm to them and others. I don't know what would happen to them if they learned the truth. I am guessing that is why clear, critical thinking is not part of their agenda.
Results of polls depend on who responds AND who declines responding to them. Just an elementary fact about any poll. I'd like to see factual numbers on how many people decline to respond the surveys we have now in order to achieve their stated sample size. That too is a statistic - a continually and perhaps intentionally ignored statistic.
The only thing that Polls provide is profits and income for pollsters, and the media.
Polls don't take into account people who decline to answer. Myself I never answer a telephone poll, because I know not to trust them, and they don't ask real questions like Who will you vote for, they ask satisfaction/dissatisfaction questions and they are meaningless. I am dissatisfied with Biden, for sure, but will crawl over broken glass to vote for him, rather than see Trump 47.
The Polls predicted a Hillary Victory, and the predicted a Red Wave in 2022.
And they predict a horse race in 2024, because both polling companies and the media need a horse race, because that is what the public fixates on.
Reality shows are an example, The central them of all is competition. From survivor to the Golden Bachelor.
Horse racing to basketball, competition is what grabs the attention and with it money, and people gamble on anything.
Can't read the charts/graphs without buying a membership which I won't do. Can you provide an alternate source? It looks like great info but its expensive.
The whites expected that from South African blacks after apartheid was brought down and it didn't happen. It is a pity that most folks choose to ignore the lessons of the past because, the way I see it, we humans behave in a very predictable manner and history could be a great font of inspiration for what to expect..or not ..and how to behave...or not. Having written that, I disagree with Mr Reich when he says most humans are good. My 50+ years in this planet has shown me that we humans behave one way when alone, as individuals, and that is when most of our greatness and kindness shines bright but when hidden (part) of a group...oh boy....that is when all those demons that define us as a species feel free to express themselves. I don't agree human beings are inherently good, just the opposite. That is why a strong social bond is necessary, now more than ever, and the notion of common good is so important. But it needs to be cultivated and how do we break through the cacophany of nonsense and hatred coming out of most media outlets? Education is a long game but we seems to be out of time, so then, what?
Most trumpsters are dirt stupid and those who aren't are in it for the power. The dirt stupid people will never have that power and the people craving that power are stupid enough to think that they might be in charge of something
Hi Terry, I am speaking from personal experience and the economic conditions of those I know are Trump supporters. As far as the millionaires and billionaires supporting him, the NYT just had a story about Wall Street’s big donors contributing to the Trump campaign about a week ago. One of the biggest mysteries to me is how the GOP has been able to link themselves to the working class when they do the bidding of the extremely wealthy class. Trump and his campaign are a true manifestation of that, in my opinion. Anyway, I hope that sheds some light on my previous post and I hope you have a great Memorial Day Weekend, Terry.
Michael, no mystery as to how Republicans link themselves to the working class: The culture war. Working whites see non whites as competition for jobs, and they haven't forgotten that what jobs they had were moved to Mexico and Asia, by Bill Clinton's NAFTA and GATT
The media, the professionals who advise and work on campaigns ignore and downplay the culture war. Because they can't admit that America is and has been locked in a cultural/racial civil war and it has gotten worse since Trump, and is on the verge of becoming hot and that scares them, as well as most of America.
So they, and the media, play ostrich and the three monkey's, like a kid hiding under the covers. If you can't see it, then it doesn't exist.
What you're describing is anecdotal....anecdotal isn't proof, its just anecdotal....kinda like feelings. To truly understand something you need data.....not assumptions and feelings.
Us Denizens of the net, know that people who request or demand a source are people who don't believe the comment, and are usually of the right wing persuasion. So it is hard to be civil.
However anyone paying attention is aware that it is indeed well to do people, that back Trump.
Take the Trump boat flotillas. Unsurprising small business owners, especially auto dealers, are vehement supporters of Trump. Remember the boat flotillas?
Except that making assumptions on that basis is a pretty stupid thing to do. All your 'evidence' is anecdotal which ultimately isn't worth a shit. Anecdotal is best used to illustrate a point that can be backed up with data. I can't be used for anything else except to get you into trouble.
The point of my question was to find out if anyone on here had newer/better data.....not for people to rant with anecdotal horse-shit and tell me how they FEEL. It's data that wins elections not feelings.
How does one explain Trumpism at various Harvard Clubs? Sort of like Trump sharing the stage with rappers Sheff G and Sleepy Hallow -- both criminals -- at his recent Bronx rally? The possibility of a "pardon." Sort of like the old lady hanging a "fuck Biden" t shirt in her garage. The trill of (safely) being an outlaw.
Any xxxx supporters I have encountered over these years were not in this demographic, Shervin. They were accomplished professionals or business people, much like many of the participants of the coup on January 6th, which included elected officials.
Race relations are fine for us normal people. It’s only white liberals and the black people that they convinced to be terrified of America have race relations issues.
Regular everyday people get along fine. It’s your poisonous lies telling black people they shouldn’t even try because everyone hates them that’s the problem.
Not sure where you live. But I overheard two deacons at church saying they'd join KKK but it wasn't doing anything. Another person at the same church wouldn't let the black neighbor kid swim in his above-ground pool. So race relations are still a problem.
Replace the so called Trumpism narrative with Elite as a formidable ism. You could easily add a whole cast of other ism’s to the mix but interestingly enough there’s a common denominator to them all. That is that they’re based upon selfishness. I don’t think that we as a human family can survive purely off of a I Me Mind existence. We once had people who well understood the importance of a formula which was steadfast in support of the common good.
Their loyalty to Trump is based on several factors including those you listed. If I were to rank the three biggest factors:
1. Disappointment, anger and blame: Many of them are disappointed and angry with their status or wealth in life. T validates and articulates this anger and gives them groups of people to blame.
2. Religion: Many of them were raised to believe even spiritual leaders are flawed but we must be loyal regardless. Plus, many are anti-choice.
3. Disinformation and ignorance: They get and believe “news” from unreliable sources like Fox. These sources confirm their fears and skewed beliefs. Many of them don’t understand T’s threat to the US and the world because they lack historical knowledge and critical thinking skills. Fundamentally, we haven’t funded education adequately.
I hope we win, but I fear that these factors will make every future election challenging and scary.
All of the above! If you keep the masses under-educated, living paycheck to paycheck, fearful of ‘others’ , you can get them to vote for a ham sandwich.
A lot of religious, yes, but Trump is nearly the opposite of biblical teachings. He is not loving, forgiving, generous or tolerant. Much of Christianity, mostly evangelical, has been co-opted by the wealthy and powerful to convince the "flock" to vote and operate to serve power. In order to maintain a sense of moral high ground they help create an earthly heaven for those Jesus said would have difficulty getting into biblical heaven.
Religion and the Bible are like supermarket aisles, pick and choose that which fulfills your needs and confirms your fears. Nothing more, nothing less.
BTW, as an "Islamophobe", who has actually studied Islam and it's sacred texts. I will say that Quran is not a Christian supermarket like the Bible.. I find a lot of garbled history, myth, fantasy (like Muhammads midnight ride to Jerusalem) but not contradiction.
And there is no escape clause, as there is in Catholicism, confession and penance, or in Protestantism (born again nonsense). It is unforgiving, either you are faithful or you are an apostate, one path to paradise is through martyrdom though.
Evangelicals believe everyone is a sinner. And "hate the sin, love the sinner" was a common phrase, i.e., everyone deserves forgiveness and we should turn the other cheek. Unfortunately, they don't appear.to get to the point of "count your losses and move on", they just continue to turn another cheek!
I’ve challenged people who are Trump voter and devote, and they say even godly men are imperfect. It is bizarre reasoning, but what I’ve told and I understand to be true of heroic biblical figures.
4. Lots of self-pity going around starting with the lead guy. Where's the good ol' American know-how to stand up to make things better instead of crying in your beer?
Racism is endemic, it is a biologically evolved factor, the suspicion and fear of the other.
However it is also a tool, a tool used, promoted, promulgated and sustained by the ruling class. It is just one tool to keep the human resources quarreling with, at war with and destructing each other.
Divide and conquer, but it is only one such tool, religion politics, sexuality even sports teams, chauvinism in any form be it local or national. All are tools, but for those who suffer disadvantage or discrimination because of racism, then that is all there is, and it is of paramount importance.
Undocumented, really, what knowledge? Are you kidding? How about the truth? That is pretty important knowledge to be lacking and they either don't have access to it or just don't care to encounter it.
Terry, thanks for the information. As I was reading, the person who immediately came to mind for me was Donald Trump and his belief in his genius with little evidence of it. His overconfidence has gotten him far more recognition and power than his abilities would warrant. Most of his belief, I believe is familial and related to his wealth or perceived wealth. It would be interesting if the researchers could check out wealth, race, education, and religious background to see if any of those factors impact how a person assesses their abilities, even the value of their skills to society.
I was actually going to say something constructive, but then I looked at your profile.
People like you lack the common sense to understand even the most basic of actual accurate information and do nothing but live off of misinformation and propaganda. Best of luck with that.
Today's parents and grandparents can remember a time when you could go to the doctor or get an education without having to sell a kidney. America's love affair with capitalism has made that impossible today. Min wage hasn't gone up appreciably in decades but the cost of living has skyrocketed. Millionaires have turned into billionaires while the little guy gets screwed. Trump was a disruptor for an electorate desperate for someone, anyone, who might do something differently. Betting on the billionaire rather than the billionaire's mouthpiece never made any sense, but desperation makes people try things that don't make sense. If the Dems had run Bernie, another disruptor, in 2016 voters would have probably chosen him over Trump. Sadly, they weren't that smart; or that brave. None of the items in your poll are actually the cause of anything. They are symptoms. They are what you get in end stage capitalism. They are what you get before the guillotines.
There was no way I would have ever voted for Bernie, even though I liked his program a lot, because I had to deal with his thugs on Facebook. Once Biden forced Bernie to rein them in, Bernie's program had already been decisively beaten by Biden in the polls. At least Biden wasn't a fanatic like Bernie was. His attitudes were reasonable. And look at what all he got passed! Eclipsed FDR's New Deal in doing good, transformational good works. And once Bernie finally got to head a committee through seniority, he seemed to really learn something. His fanaticism largely abated, and he began to show lots of deep inner wisdom. He really grew as a human being.
I am, by type, one of those coastal elites with my 19 years of formal education who likes to be on the cutting edge, even though I come from the far north central part of Illinois. I really like the Pritzgers, for example. My outlook is largely shaped by my Clinical Pastoral Education, twinning being in touch with my feelings and my intellect, including the outlook shaped by my love of becoming/being Enlightened (aware) and engaging my fluid intelligence.
I am shaped not by the bigotry you mention, but by seeing Jesus as a Progressive. How he lived each day by helping the dispossessed and the disenfranchised to become far more whole led directly to his crucifixion by the likes of you. If he had had civil service protection as I did, he never would have been crucified, the end that far too many pastors know in their churches, an outcome that is as painful as it is unjust. And unlike Jesus, we all have the human condition.
There is real cognitive dissonance in this comment, Jacob. Most of the folk on this substack, would in fact be Progressive in following Jesus New Testament, do feed the hungry and would NOT crucify . Many are against the death penalty because human justice is so INACCURATE... so tainted. Do you in fact preach this convoluted message??
Further, Bernie Sanders vision for the US is congruent with Reich's ... I also can not understand the 'thugs on Facebook for Bernie'. Seems more like someone manipulated the media, but unlikely Bernie's campaign.
Yes, I am quite aware that most folks on this thread, including myself, are Progressive. I am also opposed to the death penalty, not only because it is imposed so inaccurately, but because the death penalty itself is wrong. Instead, I would impose life in prison without the possibility of parole, a solution that worked well for Richard Speck. Ipso facto. . .
Bernie’s thugs were all over Facebook until Biden defeated him over and over again in the primaries and then demanded Bernie pull them back. Suddenly they disappeared forever.
Since I wrote there often supporting Biden, I was confronted very roughly by them repeatedly in the meantime.
Bernie’s vision for America in his last presidential campaign seemed to be largely based on life as it was than known in Denmark. I agreed with that viewpoint, but I felt more comfortable with the more moderate tone of Biden, also that Biden’s approach would have more likelihood of getting through Congress.
Jacob, Facebook is not America, nor Bernie's voters, There is a certain personality that haunts and trolls Facebook, and often it is the opposite of whom yo think they are. I
It is a known tactic to present yourself as someone or something you are opposed to.
Reverse psychology. Lenin famously said: Propose what you oppose, oppose what you propose and your enemies will hand you the keys to the kingdom on a silver platter.
I had an asshole of a step son, defied my authority, baited me to hit him, but I used reverse psychology on him and won what was a struggle for head of the house.. He is a grown man in his 50's now, and still the asshole, he drove his own son away.
Anyway, shame on you for being on Facebook, none of my family are, Facebok is the home of ideological trolls.
Those "thugs" may have been Trotskyites, the kind represented by the WWSW (WorlWide Socialist Website.) In many ways, they support the kind of things Bernie supports and could be a natural ally, but on the other hand they support things like the former Soviet Union (Russia), making them come off a lot like the МАГАт Яepuблиkan$, which Bernie would consider reprehensible. That explains why, although they may seem to be almost natural allies for Bernie, they have no problem portraying him as lower than a dog - a pseudo-socialist. That would explain why you experienced the thuggishness you associate with Bernie.
I followed their newsletter for a while and tried to post some of their articles here for people to consider and encouraged them to subscribe to the newsletter themselves. I got sharply criticized a bit that it was Russian propaganda. No. It's actually not. It's Trotsky propaganda and should be considered a more Soviet perspective. Trotsky was ostensibly a Soviet. I encourage you - and everyone here - to subscribe to that newsletter and approach it the same way you would Fox news.
I'm not suggesting you should. I'm only saying you should be aware of their message. We've heard the МАГАт message ad nauseum, and I'm just saying it's instructive see how much МАГАтs are like Trotskyites.
Thanks DZK. Trotskyites, That explains my disaffection with Democracy Now and the Nation, whom I use to subscribe to and financially support, until I noticed that they overused the charge of colonialism and imperialism, and obliquely were pro Russian (in the name of peace), now it is pro (but hbliquely) HAMAS.
There is much to admire about Jesus. Many modern Christians obscure his humanity for the sake of making him a puppet of their own vanity. Had Christianity survived, it would have made for different times.
Was there a historical Jesus, I think not, in any event the Roman Empire co opted this ideological movement, whose fountain head was a Yahooshua, (Joshua, the name means savior BTW).
There is a Jesus in the NT for almost everyone, The Jesus who says love thy neighbor, the Jesus of the good Samraritan and Sermon on the Mount, and the Jesus of Luke who tells his disciplies to sell their cloak and buy a sword, and bring before me those that will not have me reign over them and slay them and the Jesus that tells slaves to obey their master.
Something for everyone, then there is the misogynistic, patriarchal misogynistic Augustus Caesarian Jesus of Paul (Saul).
As I discern it a group of educated stoic men of the Hebrews, realizing that they coldn't defeat Rome by warfare or guerrilla tactics, came upon a scheme by which to defeat it within, by creating a pacifistic ideology, and it almost worked, until a Roman soldier name of Constantine defeated another soldier and his army,named Maxentius, at a battle of the Milivian bridge in the northern part of Rome over the Tiber river.
Like Ahkenaton he saw that it was easier and cheaper to control a population with one god and priesthood rather than the thousands that the Romans had (there was even a god for the itch named Scabies) and one of the Phallus, Priapus.
Each god had it's own priesthood and each demanded a temple, and temples cost money to money to build and maintain, and there are the hundreds of competing priesthoods demanding recognition and prominence. An unmanageable, expensive and time consuming mess. So much easier with one god, one priesthood, who then claims that your right to rule comes from their god.
You sound very mistaken about Bernie. Not sure who these “Thugs” are. He hasn’t changed one bit throughout his career. Has always stood for the same causes. To this day he still puts down the “one percent,” etc.. and pushing health care for all. If you pay close attention you will see that he’s got Biden’s ear and the reason for Biden’s progressive agenda that you seem to like.
Being yourself is a turnoff to others not of your persuasion. The positive values that you find in the bible, are universal, like the golden rule, and not particularly Christian. Ppr instance charity towards the poor, is obligatory in Islam, and discretionary in Christianity.
Mind you in both cases it is only for those of the same persuasion.
Let’s put down the eternal boxing match, and make sure we’re not compelled next year to buy and read the Trump Bible at Federal Religious Institutions. May Mother Boebert be with you.
Charity towards the poor is OBLIGATORY in Christianity. Reference Matthew 25:31-46, which encapsulates my calling.
BTW, we should all be real, be honest, be who we are deep inside. In the same way, I respect you whether or not you respect me. If you cannot respect this paragraph, our discussion has ended.
Sorry Jacob all of the Christian bible is discretionary, because there is an out. For Catholics it is confession and abolution, for Protestants it is being born again, washed in the blood of the lamb.
For Muslims there is no escape clause no out. In Islam the poor gather at the door of the Masjid, and the faithful leaving Friday Prayers give what they can. There is no such thing in Christianity and if they were the church elders would call the cops.
You have to remember, Mr. Reich in this morning's video, said that there are two types of capitalism: stakeholders capitalism- community accountability.
shareholders capitalism- more profits for shareholders. Shareholders capitalism being the one that's toxic.
I have no ability to find anything good about Trump. He's a cancerous monster with nothing but vengeance and evil to spew. He's a psycho sick deranged excuse for a human.
I tapped the OTHER in this pool, because I really feel that ALL OF THE ABOVE play a significant role in many people's minds as to why they see something in that decadent creature.
Come to Florida. Trump supporters are not dirt poor. Their fear of the Democratic socialist-influenced Biden is the slew of Trump-era individual tax cuts which are set to expire in 2025. Tax optimization is the competitive sport for the wealthy. That is the very foundation of the Republican Party. No matter who is at the helm, the individualist, winner-takes-all goal is all that matters
The inaccurate analysis through Fox grabs at folks emotions. Many things are wrong but Trunpty will never solve them. Pretense to lead. Many do not understand the fundamentals. However, Dems have been in the majority and not moved our world in the right direction. Bernie is the one who held the vision many want and more would want if they thought it could happen and not break their bank. The widening income gap feeds, citizens united, elimination of the fairness doctrine, corporations as individuals all feed, now a flood of economic migrants eating all reserves while American citizens languish are all tearing the US apart.
The ones getting through, by and large are not economic migrants, it isn't Mexicans that are piling up at our borders, those from Central America are fleeing violence, rape and murder, the Venezuelans are middle class persons, who because of US Sanctions, imposed at the behest of Exxon Mobil, find themselves at the same economic and social status as the peasants they use to exploit, There are in fact, Sikhs from India, Arabs from the mid east, Haitians, Chinese nationalist and others who come here for political reasons, or on a mission, not fleeing oppression either.
Most are not economic migrants, although Venezuelans are, haven fallen from the middle class to the lower class, since Chavez had the pure gall, the outrageous temerity to believe that Venezuelan oil belonged to Venezuela and not Exxon Mobil.
Trump continually bitches about how unfair he is being treated. If Donnie Boy was an honest man none of this would be happening to him. He must enjoy pain because his presents situation is nothing more than an "SIW."
This curiosity of nature is reflective of nothing worthwhile. The Don is an abusive want-to-be, he surrounds himself with an inner core of individuals who, being loyalists, will do for him what he can't do for himself, which is basically everything. Except for a change of diapers and a fresh bottle of moo-juice Trump has never really grown up, he is still the spoiled little brat he has always been. Unspanked, and as a result undisciplined, Trump is our modern-day Nero, and he is looking for something to burn while he fiddles around wondering who he can demean next. Where was mifepristone when we needed it.
It is only human to not see the forest because of the trees.
The infantry man doesn't see the force bearing down on him,he only sees the enemy to his front.
I forgot that I came here to drain the swamp, because I'm to busy fighting alligators.
We only see Trump, not the force behind him. Trump is only the personal manifestation of the force of evil that is behind him.
If I were a Christian I would think or say that he was the anti-Christ who has beguiled the Christians awaiting the return of their savior.
A couple of quotes by H L Mencken
Here he predicts Reagan, Ford, Bush and finally Trump
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
― H.L. Mencken, On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
― H.L. Mencken, Notes on Democracy
There are many of a liberal persusasion who abhor Mencken because of the above and this
“The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.”
― H.L. Mencken
“If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl.”
― H. L. Mencken
“On one issue, at least, men and women agree: they both distrust women.”
― H. L. Mencken
“Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others. His culture is based on "I am not too sure.”
― H.L. Mencken
“Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may be looking.”
― H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
“We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.”
In the 1930s an aspiring private from the previous world war told the people of Germany that the news media was the real enemy of the people. In essence what this did, because of the public's acceptance, was remove the truth from the equation. With only his lies to rely upon, the German people allowed Hitler to destroy a country and in the process sacrifice the lives of some 60,000,000 Europeans. We, today are embroiled in a power struggle with the reincarnated image of that insane man from the 1930s. Trump has repeatedly told his base that the news media is the true enemy of the people, does that sound familiar? Hitler's motto was "Make Germany Great Again." Trump has designs of continuing Hitler's efforts here in this country. If SCOTUS grants Trump the immunity he desires, the only difference between what they had back then and what we have now is the color of their hair.
William--I stand corrected, I don't know why I made that error because I knew what you said. I may have been a little right. Usually upon entering the military an enlisted man began as a private. So maybe Mr. Hitler started as one and advanced to the other.
I believe income inequality plays the largest factor. The American people have been lied to by government and media for years so a lot of them are willing to take the risk on a guy who is antiestablishment hoping he will help improve their lives! It’s truly a shame what’s happening to our country.
The kicker is the antiestablishment guy for them is a fortunate son with a gold toilet in his penthouse. This Memorial Day weekend people need to be reminded that this rich kid avoided the draft and later said “real heroes don’t get caught” about a POW. Unreal how so many pretend that he didn’t say that and personally I know a Vietnam vet that will protest for him!
As a practicing meditator, I work with my thoughts throughout each day. I keep up on the news online from many sources. I use thoughts of Trump as a practice to nurture understanding etc. I would be angry all the time without that approach to this man's disturbing encouragement of hate through name calling and lies. Trump is not a mindful man. It helps to remember that as I see all the chaos that is created from his mindlessness. I think it could be easy to get sucked into emotions that are not beneficial without a mindful view. I appreciate your words of knowledge and wisdom...they are most helpful. Thank you Robert!
In point of fact, Trump is not sane. He suffers from several known issues, possibly more.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD)
And with the onset of his dementia, Trump is really not fit for any public office that requires him to be trustworthy. His reasoning and logic revolve around only what DJT wants/needs. Maybe without the disorders and dementia DJT would have made a great public servant. With them he should be kept away from all public offices and perhaps institutionalized soon, if not immediately.
Thank you for saying this, Terry. He is not sane. I am not a psychologist but I think most of his supporters aren't either. How we came to have such a large mentally ill population I don't know but it's terrifying.
As Barum said, there's one born every minute. So its nothing new, ....and Trump has been practicing his entire life. The percentages likely haven't changed....just the sheer numbers have. Also remember that for a great number of them, this is a protest vote. They voted for Obama, they voted for Bernie. They simply want a change. My own take is that when Democrats decided to be like Republicans and go after the $$ they left a lot of their natural constituents out in the cold. This is them. Lost more than mentally ill.
Yes, that's all true. But to protest by voting for a racist supporter of totalitarians who disrespects military heroes and disabled people? That's beyond protest, I think. That's la la land, which is why I said what I did. Don't you think?
A sign of true desperation ?? Yes there are those for whom Trump is the perfect candidate. But for many he's just a means to another, hopefully a better, end.
Terry, He's a sick puppy. It's a FACT! He projects back everything that he hears that is said about himself and he has even made up the trump derangement syndrome. He began talking about Biden not being fit, when he was talked about that way. Right down the line he's done that. I know there's a book or two out there written by mental health experts about his severe increasing mental problems. It's unfathomable that he held the office for 4 years. It's made it clear to me that more is needed in the way of qualification for the office of President of the US...not just money but maybe a record of moral fitness. I don't know how that would be set up but somehow, SOMETHING.
The real problem is that while many of us can see that DT is not mentally well, no-one who can actually formally diagnose him has access to him. I am trying to get one family member to speak to another, but she has been told he likely has narcissistic personality disorder, but none of those stating the diagnosis have ever met him. I admit he is a jerk and an idiot, and worse when he was younger, but not narcissistic.
Dawn, I do something similar to you. Recently as the firehose of despicable revelations seems to come in overwhelming waves about Trump, I try to think about what formed this man. What was his childhood, his father like, and seemingly emotionally absent mother. How this man must have been terribly traumatized in his youth. Other than the easy answer of 'he was simply born this way,' I think there has to be more substantial reasons. I believe no human being could choose this emotional life. If we take some of Maggie Haberman's anecdotes as accurate, he was selfish, thoughtless, aggressive as a child. That indicates to me very early trauma. And, yes, I despise Trump as much as the next (rational) person, But I choose to try to understand how a person can become like this, and then continue on my way to ensuring that he never gets to sully our country again.
Jacquelyn, I have read quite a few books on his background and also books about the consensus of people who have been around him through the years of his development into the person he is now. I have realized that it will make me crazy, trying to understand crazy. So I work on myself by watching my thoughts about him and the situations that he's creating in the world. When I feel myself slipping into name calling and hate, I realize how contagious it is. Michelle Obama said, "When they go low, we go high." That's a mouthful and a practice in itself. So what began as an attempt to understand has turned into a foundation of strength for me. I stand strong in the knowledge that this man and his followers will not overwhelm the common good. We can all stand together on a foundation of 'goodness'. I am immoveable from that foundation as I go forward.
I understand that his father was extremely racist, and also very denigrating towards his children. If his mother couldn't step into the void, he had next to no chance. However, others from equally horrible backgrounds did not turn into such people as DT, so why did he?
I think there is a visceral thrill that comes with hearing someone say the dark thoughts out loud, whether those thoughts are about "foreigners," "elites," or whatever else. Reality doesn't enter into it. Truth and facts don't matter. Understanding the nuance of complicated relationships and situations is unnecessary. It just feels really good to support a leader who will "kick ass" on your behalf when you feel powerless to do so yourself.
Trumpism descends from this universal competition in all mammalian societies.
The wealthy élite helped returning WWII soldiers build good middle class American Dream lives in the 1950s.
However, they failed to teach this concept to their children & grandchildren.
Instead, the Common Good is ignored by most in favour of Me and being bigger than my cohort.
Couple that with another innate human desire for Great Leaders (religious, kings, dictators, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Mao, et al), and it’s amazing that there’s any Common Good at all.
Finally, we forget that we war our way to wealth. Let’s remember how much the American Empire depends on the Military-Industrial economy to take what’s needed from developing countries to create luxurious lives in developped western countries. Our Common Good can create uncommon chaos worldwide.
The elites on the hill, both sides, don’t seem to be able to deliver good people centred reforms anymore. This Gaza conflict is just one of many examples where politicians have been exposed as lackies of their donors eg the gun lobby. So you wonder why people are picking an anti politician. Agreed he is much worse but the elite politicians have to take responsibility for their creation. I believe many join politics with good intentions but when they get there they are shown the rules. Most follow and those that don’t don’t get back in next time. Electors don’t trust you anymore to be working for them. Biden was doing reasonably well till he fell into this Zionist hole. I’m in despair.
But never forget the seriously determined people he has in the background working on Project 2025. We underestimated him in 2016 let’s not do it again.
The most dangerous person working on Project 2025 is Stephen Miller. Smart, articulate, bigoted, and capable of carrying out Project 2025 if Trump is elected in 2024. Tapped for a top position in a future Trump administration as he was when Trump was president.
If the Democrats run her again trumpet 🎺 will win again…
The name of the game is get out the Vote
The more people vote the stronger our society is…
Elections are beauty contests ; trumpet 🎺 loves the spotlight . His mantra is Love me Hate me spell my name correctly . How can trumpet 🎺 monetize this campaign and put money 💰 in his pocket…
Hillary said the words out allowed and called Trump leaning voters “the deplorables”. Big mistake. People vote for trump largely for valid reasons and until democrats treat those voters with respect they will keep losing. Trump has gone some way with his various funding bills but they need to talk the talk too.
Biden has received the most amount of funds from AIPAC of any US politician. This explains his 'foot dragging' on Gaza to me.. Inexcusable however. He has always been a hawk.
Ok Biden wants to win the next election to save the world from Trump. If he goes angainst Israel now what are his chances when there is a long history of Aipac unseating people who go against them? He is in a desperate situation.
I think you're right that politicians in general are toxic and useless, Precious. Even Democrats. A case in point is Dick Durbin and his attitude about Alito. "Oh well, there's nothing we can do." Nonsense. Of course there is. No wonder people become disillusioned.
I don't think there is alot we can do about Alito, so I agree with Durbon on that. And I think there are plenty of good Dems trying to make a positive difference. Although generally Dems in Congress have too much a defeatist attitude for me. Even if you know you don't have the votes sometimes its worthwhile to go for it anyway IMO.
Actually it turns out that Durbin and Whitehouse have written a letter to Roberts asking for a meeting and asking that Alito recuse himself. I guess all those calls and emails made a difference after all. Robert Hubbell says he doesn't think Roberts will respond but I think it's important that people of that stature are trying to make a difference, as you say. This is how things get done, even if it takes a while.
It’s a personality cult built on a TV personality suggesting entrepreneurial success and executive power. Both of which were fiction. Often cults are based on a fictional image of the leader. This is clearly one and the main reason the ‘followers’ are loyal and ignore the information that contradicts the created image is a difficulty in admitting that one has fallen for a con.
Correctly call it a cult but it doesn't take much to snare a fully supportive person or group. Just one answered prayer can make lifetime convert. Or, one simple comment such as , "I will build a wall..." can unite a fanatical group. It's shocking to hear why most people vote for whoever they vote for. "He works for us." or "He sent me a stimulus check." or "He put a wealth on his Greek grandmother's grave." Sadly, the human race is much like a little child whose lifelong devotion can be had with the purchase of an ice cream cone.
I don’t think we should put much confidence in the answers cult followers might give as explanations for becoming followers. I’m more interested in how the mainstream media would explain the failure to make clear the absence of evidence of the leader’s claims. Although, I have to admit, the response to the speech to the libertarians did get more publicity than usual.
Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing. I think once a cult follower snaps in, the media's role in our culture is to exploit the love of DT with a continuous stream of supportive narrative to extract the maximum amount of revenue. With the overwhelming flood of misinformation, I find myself wishing my favorite news sources would be less objective in reports of my favorite candidates since I feel we are at war where reasonable discourse is a casualty. And that's really sad.
I live in Florida, worse than that in The Villages. I have no local news sources that pay any attention to candidates I like and it probably doesn’t matter. Under DeSantis the state that had a somewhat cosmopolitan population has become a Trumpland in miniature. Since 2916 the only discourse is GOP propaganda. Fortunately all of our children live in more reasonable political environments (MI, MA, OR).
Ugh. I guess I won't be moving there. The sad and crazy piece of these times is the fact that we work closely with people who are very much members of the opposition. There's no Blue firefighters or Blue police and no Red engineers or Red nurses. We're simply firefighters, cops, engineers and nurses doing our jobs. We laugh and sweat together at our places of work. The relatively small part of our lives, which we should be fiercely excited about, is our united front against poverty, exploitation, sickness as we strive for a better world. The ruling class has embraced a fanatical national media driven by record profits. Add an evangelical crusade to the mix and you get a government body out of sync. And let's not forget the people who want to show how pissed off they by eagerly decrying anything the government does.
We found the internet and haven't figured out how to make it work for improving the country. We have figured out how to engage people. Hopefully, a unified senses of decency will arise and we'll be able to embrace civil discourse in an improved way. Interestingly, I think this has happened in the American business world.
Except for the fact of seduction by a conman, our neighbors are wonderfully decent. However it is easy for us to avoid probing their beliefs about how a just society should care for those who are less fortunate. We moved here before the Trump era began, March, 2014 to be exact. We had lived in a neighboring county for seven years after our retirement, but it was too rural. The Villages was a rapidly growing phenomenon then and we had friends who made the choice to retire here from MI about the same time we moved to Citrus County just west of where we are now. When we visited the we saw many things we liked and made a decision to live in the rapidly growing retirement community which seemed slightly more urban. We weren’t unhappy living in a GOP dominated area until the emergence of Trump as a political political phenomenon. In fact, we couldn’t believe that he was able to defeat more reasonable (to us) candidates in the party. Our naïveté continued into November and the election and we were shocked by Clinton’s loss. We considered a move, but decided our ages made it unwise.
Most Trumpers are dirt poor, but they've been listening to the wrong people, people who blame the Democrats for high prices. Another large number were raised almost in isolation, and bigotry, and the fear of a brown person being in charge scares them, as they remember how they treated brown people in the past and expect to receive the same in return if brown people get in charge.
GUILT..... yes, I have been thinking this is responsible for much of the free floating fear. Guilt for the bad thoughts, the bad deeds , the primitive brain driving the reactions. ' Maybe those black and brown folk will hold me accountable for the bad things I did"... Frankly, someone should.
Everyone gains when we have good race relations, when we treat each other with dignity & courtesy. Trust slowly builds among us. We are all Americans & are in this together, & we should be looking out for each other & the common good. Or at least that is the attitude of true patriots.
You don't know any Trump supporters you're only projecting.
Trump supporters are everywhere- little old lady down the street with a “ fuck Biden shirt hanging in her garage … big mouth man next street over telling me his dog can attack me as I walk down the street - the couple two streets over telling me Trump will straighten out the world soon as I ask them “ what did he do for the poor and homeless ?- you can spot a Trumpie a mile away - they’re even in my family - they have no answers for HOW Trump will fix anything - it’s like they believe Dumbo at Disneyland is real.
And far too many Americans are watching blatant fascism take over right before our very eyes and have no clue as to what our biggest priority should be this election. 1) Too many do not pay attention to REAL news (not that any sort of media is making it front and center as it SHOULD be); 2) We are far too spoiled in this country. Most of us have no idea what it is like living under an authoritarian rule. And have no clue what the signs that it is coming are. None - although many of those racing to leave their own countries and doing anything to get into this one could describe it -- wait till they find out what awaits them once they get in. We need to wake up fast..... but I guess if you put your heart, soul, and wallet into supporting one seemingly "strong" "leader" then you begin to realize that maybe he's a criminal and maybe doesn't even care about you, it's hard to admit you've been snookered. That kind of emotion, plus ignorance and inability to think critically are doing us in. But as to why so many traditional gop in DC and just down the street - even those who should know better & and are actually in a position to do significant things to stop trump & his lackeys - continue to aid, abet, and enable him is beyond me, and WAY beyond disappointing.
One would think women would begin to get the message if their daughters don't want to have 14 children, endless pregnancy, or be raped with no choices, and have become 1/2 person in this US , thanks to the inability for white men mostly to power share. They would NOT pass the ERA.. WAKE up Women, you are nada now.. SEW YOIUR own RED cloak, I am going to learn how to use a bumpstock.
If one can’t think critically, hang around those who do at least
Ask them to check out how life in Poland or Hungary is. Then check back. No consumer protections, literally all the crap you hate now only worse. Far worse.
Many with $100,000- 350,000 incomes love Trumpty . Less taxes . Can continue the games on taxes. MORe FOR ME
Don't use Dumbo you'll smear his good name! (tee-hee)
Ah, but I do........
As of 2023, 67,076,966 Americans received SSI. I’m sure more do now.
Republicans have threatened to kill it. Demean beneficiaries as “takers.”
Yet some SSI recipients are registered Republican!
It's ironic that some on SSI slit their own throats.
Every dime an SSI beneficiary gets is spent and proves that John Maynard Keynes was right -- causing a positive ripple effect. “Demand creates its own supply.”
Those benefits go into the hands of practically every business.
Which Republicans have threatened to kill it. Name names.
Here's a little memo.
1. SSI, created in 1972 replaced state disability programs that were often inefficient, discriminatory and underfunded. As long as I can remember, Republicans threatened to return the disability program to the states. During the time that Jim Bunning was chair of the House Ways and Means Social Security subcommittee, this was policy.
I can testify that many of the committee staff had previously been employees of state agencies and recommended it. SSA uses a “sequential evaluation “ in disability claims and the first two steps are performed at the “State agency” level. https://www.ssa.gov/disability/determination.htm
2. Over time, Republicans argued that SSI should be subject to “new federalism,” a division of power between a National Government and State governments. In Title II SSA cases, the state agencies also evaluate disability claims, but the claims are paid by trust funds, not from the general budget funds. Some of the judges at SSA had been state disability judges. At first they were designated only to handle SSI cases.
3. The viability of returning the SSI cases to the states was agued within he Social Security subcommittee and at the Social Security Advisory Board.
4. As president, Trump tried and failed to cut benefits drastically. Some Republicans wanted to replace the entire system. See. Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, Trump, House Republican Cuts to SSI Would Harm Children With Disabilities, Sept. 18, 2017, Kathleen Romig and Guillermo Herrera. https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/trump-house-republican-cuts-to-ssi-would-harm-children-with-disabilities
“The Trump proposal would cut SSI by more than $8 billion over the next decade, shrinking benefits for roughly a quarter of a million children with disabilities by between 38 and 66 percent. It would also increase SSI’s administrative costs and improper payments”.
5. Libertarianism and the Pragmatic Case for a Universal Basic Income
Ed Dolan • August 27, 2014 • https://www.cato-unbound.org/2014/08/27/ed-dolan/libertarianism-pragmatic-case-universal-basic-income/
This is a symposium.
6. Back to Milton Freidman, Universal basic income (UBI), a social welfare proposal in which all citizens of a given population regularly receive a minimum income in the form of an unconditional transfer payment, i.e., without a means test or need to work would substitute for SSI and other poverty programs.
https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/5-31-16bud.pdf
7. Center on Budget and Policy Priorities · by B Greenstein, Universal Basic Income May Sound Attractive But, If It Occurred, Would Likelier Increase Poverty Than Reduce It, https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/5-31-16bud.pdf
8. RSC 2003 Budget proposal: Blueprint to Save America, p. 35. https://banks.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fy23_budget_final_copy.pdf
State Flexibility for Supplemental Security Income SSI provides
cash payments to aged, blind, or disabled persons. SSI has also been expanded beyond its original purpose to include payments to the parents of disabled children. Under the current program, states have incentives to push families to enroll on SSI.143 Tragically, children who received SSI payments often become dependent on the program as adults. This budget gives more control of the program and its spending to states through block grants. This would allow all 50 states to experiment and better serve their citizens, such as through empowering those individuals to enjoy the dignity of work and service if they are able.
9. CBO Eliminate Supplemental Security Income Benefits for Disabled Children. https://www.cbo.gov/budget-options/54742 (2018)
Background
The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program provides cash assistance to people who are disabled, aged, or both and who have low income and few assets. In 2018, 15 percent of SSI recipients, or 1.2 million people, are projected to be disabled children under age 18, receiving an average monthly benefit of $686. To receive benefits, those children must have marked, severe functional limitations and usually must live in a household with low income and few assets.
Option
This option would eliminate SSI benefits for disabled children.
I've got more. Republican study committees over the years.
Are you a Russian BOT? Do your research since you don’t seem to know. It’s out there and we ALL heard it.
SSI is not social security. LOL....
67,076,966 Americans received in 2023. Not SSI. LOL...
It actually is! SSDI and SSI are both taken from the social security pot. Look it up. It used to be part of the "welfare" system when state run. Now its part of ths SSA system. For people who never worked enough quarters to get SSDI. Its financial need based disability. Get educated before spreading lies as if you know what uou are talking about. SSDI and SSI and senior retirement are all Social Security. Why do you think SSA can think about/predict when they run out of money??? Because its them!
Size and Scope of the Supplemental Security Income Program
About 7.5 million people received federally administered payments in December 2022. The average monthly payment in December 2022 was $622.
And so do I
Undocumented, nonsense, those folks have been all over the news for 9+ years, so even if we don't have a close friend or family member who is a Trumper or Trumpette, we have a sense of who they are and can feel some of their pain and abuse by Trump and friends. However, I suspect everyone on this thread and beyond knows someone who fits the description.
Ruth Sheets true! But there Are tRump supporters who don't even like him : The very wealthy and racist who love him for robbing the Treasury for them and deflecting rage from them. They are behind the culture wars and misogyny. The book banning and abortion banning, the legislation that allows gerrymandering and the theft of our attempts to improve self rule and real Freedom!
True Laurie, the plutocracy uses culture warriors, like Trump does, as a tool.
I also take note that there seems to be a positive correlation between the degree of religious fanaticism, and wealth. For instance the richest men in Texas, the ones that basically fund and own the Republican party are also fanatic Christians.
This is non denominational, because Barre Seid, son of Russian Jewish Immigrants, bequeathed the Federalist Society 1.6 billion dollars.
William Farrar ; If a particular mindset is useful to indoctrinate people with, it can be worth its weight in gold, even if is bereft of spirituality. Just convince women and girls that they are to be subjects of their husbands,(If they have them), for starters. Tell them that if they become pregnant without wanting or planning to, they MUST give birth to that child, even if it was from rape, or incest! It is "God's" will ; College plans, emotional conflicts and pain ; nothing is as important as following the rule of the Lord , (Which the usually male leaders of the church make as they interpret and see fit). Unfortunately for these fertile females, these "holy men' don't know anything about female reproductive anatomy or complications that can be fatal if not managed and treated immediately! They don't know or care about the Constitution, either!
It seems to me that religion is about control. The wealthy "religious fanatics" are not actually practicing the tenets of the religion they espouse, more using it as a frifting mechanism like Trump does. Additionally, the wealthy understand the need for a COMPLIANT expanded work force they are able to usurp, hence the issues around women's right to determine their own future/child birth.
William, it seems a lot of people use religion as a tool for "connecting" with people. Most people don't question the faith of other people because for many faith is a personal thing. Because of this, a lot of unscrupulous folks claim some kind of faith it is unlikely they have. Trump is the model for this with his claims of the bible being his favorite book. No one ever challenges him on it so a lot of his cult believe him even though there is absolutely no evidence Trump as ever read any of it and since he doesn't attend church, he doesn't even know what is in it. He does know a lot of the speech patterns, though. The faith thing doesn't have to be Christianity or Judaism, or Islam or any other identified faith because all the faiths are used by the power-hungry to subdue and mollify the folks who actually have some of the faith they claim. So, religion becomes a tool for them to gain power they don't deserve and often lots of money, but their "faith" is in their own ability to manipulate people.
TRump IS a tool of the billionaires!
you really don't know anyone who is a "Trumper".
Undoc Comment: Grew up in Florida. Knew them before Trump ever existed. Know them now. What parallel universe do you inhabit?
Undocumented, please stop replying to me. You are either a bott or have decided to act like one and your comments are a waste of time. Good-bye!
I know many. But I keep my self on the other side of the country lol. My entire family is in the south where I grew up. I talk to trumpers several times a week. Less and less obviously lately, and conversation is very brief. So yes I know them up close and personal unfortunately
Undocumented, and you think you know this how? The second question, this matters to you because . . .
I feel sorry for you.
Undocumented, how kind of you. I have no idea why you should feel sorry for me. I have a pretty good life, I care deeply about people, appreciate the common good because even as a blind woman, I find most people are kind and do not try to take advantage of me. I believe in the truth, am an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, and taught some of the most wonderful students and had amazing colleagues in one of the poorest school districts in my state. I feel sorry for you that you have not been able to do all the things I have done and are as I am, still hopeful that things will be better.
Thank you for your comments to undocumented .
Ruth - You are an amazing woman!! You inspire me! This is my only way I can like your post but if I could (please substack fix this glitch) I would like it more than once.
This really put you on the defensive.. it should not.
Accurate information can help dispel the lies of the orange menace and cohorts. Trumpers never seem to be able to cipher the reality of truth, versus the fog of orange mendacities.
Yes, and the media doesn’t give us truth.
And just MAYBE we who read and comprehend feel a tiny modicum of compassion for the Trump accolades so easily duped.
Wow. This not is becoming sentient!! 😢
Bot not not
Trust me - I know them! I lived in Florida for 10 years and the last year in Alabama. Fear and ignorance are the driving forces.
I do, and they flatly fear non whites, immigrants, and hold wildly anti democratic views...they wouldn't mind a king, as if that would impart some sense of royalty upon them. They are not fiscal conservatives... they were believing fantasies.
Include in that comment, Leslie, the non white immigrants and descendants of immigrants, who support Trump and DeSantis, and their misogynistic, patriarchal agenda.
Undocumented Commentator: My question to you is, why would anyone choose to have a lying, corrupt, incompetent, demented, immature, authoritarian narcissist as their President? He's mean, vindictive, and crazy enough to punish the whole country for his shortcomings. You support this?
Malignant Narcissist, Axis ll, Cluster B-4 Look it up and you will find a picture of the "Orange One." PPL don't recognize the complexity of his mental illness. He needs to be in a locked ward for life, we will be safe from him and he will be safe from himself and what he's capable of.
One sick m-f-er.
Grew up in Florida. Knew them before they even knew Trump existed. Know them now. What parallel universe you inhabiting?
To whom are you responding dnkarr? Substack links your respoonse to Shervin Marsh
If yo are responding to Sheila Small, are you saying that ignorance bigotry do not expound in Florida. I guess DeSantis, the Villages, etc are an illusion.
No, William, dnkarr is responding to the same "person" (or is it a bot?) that Shervin Marsh & Sheila Small are responding to, which is "Undocumented Commentator".
Most of my classmates from Campion Academy, Loveland CO, and Highland Academy, Portland, TN are Trumpers. I've been called woke to my face. Viki knows a few and I went to school with a bunch of them.
Woke is a term originating from black culture meaning....'Keep your head on a swivel.." Be aware of scheisters out to screw you). MAGA uses it & doesn't even know what they're talking about. Woke is a GOOD thing. E.g. if D steals power we will ALL need to be woke!
The meaning of woke has morphed Douglas, like the meaning of "fire" and"sick". Woke now means anything that isn't racist, bigoted, LGBT phobic.
The thing is that the magakkkult can't understand "woke" or "Liberal" so they turn the words into a slur.
Yeah I am PROUD woke and a Liberal. Yeah I do recognize the ugly things this country has done and still does. Yes I believe in equality and individual rights and that the government doesn't control my body. Etc. etc.
I should be so lucky. Went to lunch with a group of ladies and the mist conservative said JFK, Jr. and Princess Di are still alive and "sheltered" and that she has listened to them speak on Patriot Radio! She also said Biden died in 2019 and a double was put in his place. SMH.
Maryanne. Why do you even associate with such mind rot, it is contagious.
I tend to look at it this way. Trump has given bullying a new position. He allows and encourages hate towards the “other.” Some people love to get away with doing “bad things.” Also, it seems safer to some people to align with the bully. This way they will be “taken care of.” He will dump them of course and use them. But psychologically. They feel protected. He will protect them from the immigrants, from financial collapse, and any “other” that is dangerous.
You don’t need to know them. Their behavior and comments reveal their lack of brain power!
This is very true. And I’ve met Trumoers, but I didn’t have to meet them. They’re all over the news, all over social media. X is crawling with them.
You must be a Putin Bot (or Puppet, take your pick). I believe in 1st amendment rights, but in your case, not.
The comments are very interesting . I do think that Social Security, Medicare and more need to be evaluated and revised. I am a ( senior now) US and EU citizen. These systems need to be evaluated and changed… and first determining what we want provide to US citizens … effective healthcare and more… training, education, advancement.,, It is 2024. Much has changed but the purpose for Americans has not ..,
We need to ‘grow up’ . Be strong. Make smart advancements… oh yes with intelligence, thoughtfulness and that be ultimately kind.
Powerful.
Guilt isn't in these people's vocabulary
It's the avoidance of feeling guilty that drives them. They don't want to feel guilty for their greed, hate & bigotry.
Ehhhhhhh. Some trumplicans are FAR too dumb and ignorant and selfish to be feeling "guilt." ESPECIALLY the morbidly obese retard himself! (I know it's "exceptional" now, but how is that insulting???)
VIcki, are we to understand by your comments that you are admitting to be a racist?
In 2016, the typical Trump voter was not “dirt poor.” The average income was 75,000-80,000 per year. That is solidly middle class.
Mary Ann, yes, they were not dirt poor, but they were emotionally bankrupt and the Trump-infused hatred, anger, fear, and resentment filled in the holes of their lives and gave them folks to despise and they could do it in the name of god, or they thought so. Common good was not on their minds
Ruth 🎯
Emotionally bankrupt, YES, I totally agree with you but we must ask ourselves how and why these people came to feel this way. I personally blame predatory capitalism that seems to go hand-in-hand with acute individualism. The sad part is that many Americans, at least the ones I've had the pleasure of having good conversations with, seem to see capitalism and individualism as their God, the only North possible and desirable for the US and its citizens. I get the feeling you need to redefine yourselves and reinterpret past events that led you to this moment in history. Heck, all countries do but the US is too influential in the world and so weball watch you with aprehension. So, how do we break the spell and get people to look at each other again? We preach to the converted or reach only a few souls at the time. That is not enough. I am very worried about the generalised bankruptcy of the soul I see all around me. Even naturalists and yoga folks that I usually had so much in common with are now anti-vaxxers!! What do you do then?
Mara, I think we didn't take people's stress seriously enough. When people are too stressed, they will latch onto whatever is in front of them, and for a lot of people what was in front of them was Fox Not Nearly News and there is very little that's hopeful there. So, it looks like it is going to have to be all of us reaching out to them to change their perspective. Telling them they are stupid or ignorant or something else negative will not help. They will just become more entrenched in their negativity. More positive messages through the various media platforms along with reports of what is really going on could make a difference. The people need better-paying jobs, work that has meaning, stronger public schools, and not giving into their ideas that will do harm to them and their children, like banning books, teaching religion in school, and putting Trump as the first or second report on nearly every newscast. I am sure there are folks out here who are far more creative than I, Prof. Reich being one of many. I bet they have lots of good ideas now that we need to focus on making things better. It is worth a try.
The poor don't vote, it seems. The blue collar vote is too often against their own interest.
They feel hopelessly stuck, and in fear of losing the little that they have, while infected with the Horatio Alger myth that leads them to believe that they are only temporarily disadvantaged millionaires. And if they aren't thwarted by powers beyond their control, like the Jews, they need someone to look down upon to make them maintain their illusion of superiority.
Alexandra Pelosi is a documentarian, and after Obama's election she toured America
Her Documentary "Right America, Feeling Wronged" featured a bibbed overalled toothless redneck in a single wide, her standing amidst garbage, asking him why he was against Food stamps. he said "because them lazy coloreds, get them". she replied but you do as well, his response "well that's OK because I earned them"
But most of my classmates _are_ that dirt poor. I've had to unfriend a couple of them for their insinuations.
Not in my area of the world , average workers pay is $35,000-$45,000.
How are the cases of E. Jean Carrol and Stormy Daniels different? I don’t know how/why Trump ended up in that dressing room. In Daniel’s case she was advised by her agent to meet Trump to discuss an appearance on his television show. Carrol is able to sue Trump and is awarded millions. Daniels is lied to, and forced into a sexual encounter she clearly didn’t want. I think she would have been laughed out of the courtroom if she even attempted to use our judicial system to hold Trump accountable. I don’t know why Daniel’s seeking damages is a moral failure but Carrol’s lawsuit is justifiable.
Well that was ok money 40 years ago but nowdays in New Jersey you need 70 to 80k.
Richard, you are correct. I lived in northern New Jersey for 12 years. Living in N J requires 2 to 21/2 times the amount of income required for Northern Georgia.
MAB, do you have a source for those figures please......
I don’t believe who are dirt poor generally have the means to travel to DC or purchase the kind of weapons and tactical gear used on Jan 6
Of course those are anecdotal descriptions. There will always be exceptions. Would be nice if the table you provided a link to were updated for 2020...or even better 2024.
My feeling is that MAGAts are kind of a mish mash in terms of why they support Trump. e.g. not all for the same reasons. The data would be extremely helpful as anecdotes don't always tell the truth.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjEp8Xf5qiGAxUijIkEHTOJCAAQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2tJp2aL7kC6Pn6qO2EtRO5
Bill Gates walks into a bar full of deadbeats.......
The majority of 90Th Percentile Income salaries currently range between $129,000 (25th percentile) to $250,000 (75th percentile) with top earners (90th percentile) making $288,000 annually across the United States. According to Statista, in the third quarter of 2023, the top 10% of earners in the United States owned 66.6% of the total wealth, while the bottom 50% owned only 2.6%. The 90th percentile of household wealth in 2021 was $1,623,000, meaning that 1 in 10 households had wealth exceeding $1.6 million.
My point is not that Trump supporters are in the top 1% or 10%. It is that Trump supporters are not dirt poor.
Those stats won't substantiate that allegation. A few rich people stack the deck. .
Thanks.
It may not constitute "dirt poor", but it hovers on the very fring of middle class, maybe below depending on family sjze and occupation. Many work multiple jobs to just get by. If you want to look at generational wealth building, that salary level gets you nowhere. It barely gets you a small house in most markets. And let's ot forget the Fed and State and local and sales taxes that must come out of that annual gross.
And the rich! BTW
You know, Shervin, I never thought about that! Maybe that is the reason these white Christian nationalists fear people of color leading our country. They are afraid of being treated the way people of color were treated before. The sad truth is, if they knew, people of color just simply want equality and that is all. They wouldn't 'retaliate' for the way their ancestors were treated. I never once saw or heard that President Obama ever did anything like that! Thank you for that insight!
Peggy Freeman, it is for some a concern. When Obama was elected, my friend's sister and her adult daughters went out and bought as many guns as they could. They thought that because now there was a black president, black people were going to be coming into their houses and stealing their tv's and vcr's. They live in a very rural area in a southern state. It, of course, is absurd but they weren't born believing that. They'd been strongly conditioned. By politicians, talk radio, church leaders, schools, families, community, etc.?
Also, because this is what THEIR PEOPLE had done to Black folks in a Wider community which accepted, no endorsed this racism.
Hi M Tree! It is hard for me to wrap my mind around people being so afraid after President Obama was elected! There wasn't any reason for anyone to think that black people would begin to rob and pillage!! I agree that people have been conditioned by those you mentioned. It seems to be a vicious cycle! Children grow up believing what those people have told them and react accordingly. I wish that those same children would view the world differently than they do, but I would not know how to make that change for them.
Peggy Freeman, yes, it's so insane, it's hard to fathom. For me, in my life experiences, love and understanding for them having been conditioned that way (not condoning) is the only thing that will transform them. They need to feel safe and be given dignity while at the same time I let them know through my words or actions that their belief isn't rational and is missing the wide angle view.
One of the key concepts here is safety in a community that allows an individual entity to survive. That situation requires common beliefs, action, goals.
Excellent point, M Tree!
Tis true, it is social conditioning. I lived for a spell with my fathers family in the Arkansas-Louisiana area. Poor whites, in 1870 and 1880 their neighbors per the census were black.
In 1964, Mammy (my grandmother) asked me "Why is them coloreds so upset, don't we treat them well enough", Now she didn't have a hateful bone in her body and was not consciously a racist, she also carried memories as if they were her own of cousins spying on Federal supply lines out of Vicksburg, chased back to the family farm, burned out of the barn by Federals, and shot as they ran across the field.
It is a hand me down legacy,embedded into the culture.
William Farrar, thank you so much for sharing the stories about your Mammy. I once read something profound that stuck with me. The writer said, that if I had had the exact same experiences as the other person (fill in the blank, for example, with someone who has hurt you), my words and actions would be exactly the same as the other person. My initial reaction was, no that's not true. But as I thought it over, I concluded, it was true, how could it not be. It gave a whole new meaning to the word, grace, for me.
Hmm I don't remember anyone who has hurt me. I do remember giving as good as i got, My parents maybe, but as I grew older and wiser I understood why they way they were, and forgave and loved them. I outlived all of my relatives save a cousin 6 months my senior.
Hurt is baggage that one carries with them, knowingly, as some kind of precious memory.
Better to chuck hurt in the waste bin, and be rid of it,else it cripples oneself, and physically diminish ones quality of life and length of life.
William Farrar, your words about not being hurt are wise.
M, this is the legacy of slavery. It's been 160 years since the Civil War and people in this country haven't gotten over it.
Pathetic and cloistered in ignorance.
Lisa Leonard, "cloistered in ignorance" seems a sad but true statement.
Interesting
:o
This fear is mostly baseless. But continuing oppression & mistreatment of others by whites builds resentment in those being oppressed. We had been going in the right direction by treating others with sensitivity, decency & regard, but then the bigotry that came with Trumpism reversed that trend. This reactionary backlash by bigoted whites is undoing all the progress we had made & making it much more likely that their fears will be realized.
I agree, Jaime! It seems like for every step we make forward for a better America, people like trump come along and we are pushed three steps back!! It is a constant fight!
Peggy, antisemitism, misogyny, LGBT phobia are not the exclusive domain of white Christian Nationalists, unfortunately it is rampant in Islam and communities of color.
Mark Robinson, Kanye, Tim Scott, Clarence Thomas and the two dudes who climbed on the stage with Trump in the Bronx are not exceptions. Al Sharpton, Joy Reid and Rev Barber are the exceptions.
It seems that since Oct. 7th attack on Israel many young people are now antisemitic which is so sad. They don’t even understand why they are antisemitic.
They will claim that they are not antisemitic and that being anti Israel is not antisemitic, but Israel is a Jewish Ethno state, surrounded by a sea of enemies Islamic ethno states, and there are 57 of those in the UN and only one Jewish ethnostate,
This current fad of anti semitism is fed by Muslim Arab students, and enabling professors, all of whom are either attending or teaching in American universities thanks to American petro dollars.
But they are antisemitic. They just are not intelligent enough to realize it.
Yes, the Jewish people are outnumbered!
It’s happening on Canadian universities too!
IMO the basis of much antisemitism is jealousy. A Christian motive is exemplified by Mel Gibson who called them Christ killers. An Islamic motive is found in the Quran. it starts in Medina, and Mo's lust for their wealth.
I agree!
Although, Obama had the audacity to wear a tan suit. Quite a contrast to the little armies of Trumplicans, including our House Speaker, appearing daily in standard issue dark navy suits with red ties outside the NY State Courthouse, isn’t it?
Karl Rove is the father of the tactic of attacking strengths. Thus a genuine war triple amputee hero Max Clelland became in their propaganda , a soward because he was opposed to Dubya's war of choice.
It matters not what Obama or Biden does, every sniffle is a cause celebre for diminution.
Rose, I never understood why people were so incensed about President Obama wearing a tan suit? I thought he looked quite debonair!
OMG, a black man wearing a light colored suit. How could anything be more offensive? (And isn’t it interesting that the daily parade of Trumplicans arriving at a NY State Court near you are each wearing a navy blue suit and a red tie—including the US Speaker of the House?)
Oh, I didn't realize that it was offensive. Is there a reason for that? Does it signify something to the ones that were offended? I'm sorry, I just did not know the reason behind it! The navy suit and red tie I understand. They believe they are showing solidarity with their orange leader. It didn't offend me, it just made me laugh because I thought about the Blues Brothers and their suits and ties and sunglasses!!
I think Rose was being sarcastic.
Someone said they didn't have uniforms, but navy suit with red tie works for me. Looks weird to me if I think about it. And with Obama being Irish should have been comforting to the racists. Are they prejudice against the Irish too?
But what is this large ugly movement against the common good. Limbaugh, FOX, evil Christian, white supremacist. Trump is a symbol, but what is the huge ugly thing we are fighting? Can we work around them. They have a lot of money (or power), and they want to lead. I don't want to be led.
Gordon, it is the one drop ideation of race. One drop of non white blood, means that you are non white,unless you are a proud member of the KKK, Neo NAZI's, or the Trump cult.
The Irish when they first came to this shore were treated as non whites as well, and into the 20th Century there were signs spotted on Boston lawns, dogs and irish keep off.
And once established and lost their accent they became avid racists as well, to wit the Bill Oreilly's, Sean Hannitys and dare I say the Boston police force, maybe police forces nation wide.
Hm. You have to wonder about Clarence Thomas then.
“Uncle” Clarence is exactly that. A white wolf in black sheep’s clothing, wanting nothing more than a ton of money, and willing to repeatedly bend over for billionaires like Harlan Crow for whatever he and oh so white Ginny could get (for his ass).
It is more likely Peggy, that they look at their own banal lives, see themselves hopelessly stuck,and in fear of back sliding, but have the those that they consider to be lesser creatures, not quite human to look down upon
That is such a sad thought, William. To think that people have to find someone to hate in order to make themselves feel better. It must be a miserable existence for them!
Shervin, you are right about those folks. They also mostly live in the Confederacy and Confederate wannabee states. They are generally used by the guys in power to stay in power.
Then their needs are ignored or those guys in power lie that it isn't they who didn't get the bridge fixed or stop a private equity firm from buying and closing their only hospital. They say they are right as white people to be scared of brown and black people because "those people will hurt you; they want what you have." They lie again "it isn't our fault the schools are so bad. You can always go to that private religious school and we'll give you money to do it, well, not much money, but you can find the rest or be stuck in the public schools with those _____ kids." How do we reach those used and abused folks? I am not sure, but speaking of the common good and pointing out where it is at work in their communities and who it is that is working on it would be a good start.
I've not heard the term 'wannabee states' before. What does it mean?
Terry, I use the term "wannabee states to indicate that those states were not part of the original confederacy, but now have adopted many of the beliefs and practices of the confederacy: Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, West Virginia, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Idaho, the Dakotas, and maybe Montana. There are a lot of those wannabee states, and no former confederate state except maybe Virginia has dropped out of the Confederacy. North Carolina and Georgia have made some headway, but certainly are not there. What are the characteristics, racism very active, misogyny and relegating women to positions of non-power, dominance of white evangelical christians, whining for "states' rights" (as long as it gets the guys in charge, more power to control the lives of the people living in the state, a heavily gerrymandered legislature, being duped by rich white folks into going against their best interest. It's sad, but real.
Yep, makes a lot of sense. Good monicker. For a while there I thought Michigan and Wisconsin might be on that list. Looks like I was wrong. TG
Terry, I was concerned about MI and WI too. I did forget to add Ohio, but I think Ohio does not know what it wants to be. It is almost as though Ohio and perhaps some of the other states too are trying to do better, but can't shake off the powerful white supremacists who masquerade as something else. I know the ancestors of Ohio, Iowa, and Indiana who fought for the Union and to end slavery would be shocked to find that 160 years later, their descendants are as racist and closed-minded as folks anywhere in the Confederacy.
You know Indiana has quite the Klan legacy. In the 30's our Governor was a member of the largest chapter in the US right here in Indianapolis. It was always somewhat racist while I was growing up in the 40's, 50s etc. Not sure it didn't take with me although my parents didn't talk about it at all even though they sometime used the n word. My sister and I just didn't react to it and of course never spoke like that. I guess we just knew it wasn't right? It also helped that our parents weren't very good at role modeling the race stuff.
I don’t know if I would characterize most Trump supporters as “dirt poor”. I have seen MAGA signs on large estates and many people that I know who follow him are rather well off. “Dirt poor” folks can’t afford to take off on a Tuesday to hop on a plane to DC to listen to a speech and attempt to overthrow an election. While Trump surely has supporters who see him as an economic savior, millionaires, billionaires and Christian Nationalists are the ones funding the campaign to protect what they see as under threat by the Democrats.
Most are poor? Really.
Gauging only by my classmates, they're not over rich. Some rich people may have tagged along to bolster their own greed, but the masses are poor.
Shervin, and if they were not financially poor, they were certainly emotionally impoverished and desperate to believe in something they could understand, and hatred, anger, fear, and resentment work well for these people. They can regularly nurse all four of them and can build their whole world around them. It isn't healthy, but it can get them through when they didn't achieve everything they intended to get in their lives. These are not the most adaptable people and when someone like Trump comes along, he gives them something to cling too that mirrors their own negative emotions and they don't even have to be founded on anything, especially if Trump tells them they are doing just fine and he will fight for them. They miss Trump's cynicism because they are so wrapped up in their own stuff.
All that tells us Shervin is that you don't run in those circles.
Check out this graph.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1184428/presidential-election-exit-polls-share-votes-income-us/
Undocumented, polls can lie, and often do. Who were the pollsters asking? Were the respondents being honest? We know Trump and Kump are not honest a good portion of the time and are OK with it. Did they think the pollsters were "woke?" If so, they would love to get something over on those guys. In short, some have some money (of course those closest to Trump have lots of money because that's the only reason he would permit them near him. It appears he doesn't have much but contempt for the rest of his cult.
Polls are a joke right now!
Maybe people who voted for Trump exaggerate more to a pollster how much money they make compared to people who voted for Biden! Poll results by themselves prove nothing, need more in-depth research and analysis. That's why I generally ignore the results of polls when used to justify someone's opinion.
I see your polls, but that differs from my personal lived experience and that of my former classmates. A poll is a poll, and my experience is what I've been though.
Shervin, I would be more likely to believe what you know in person too. The bulk of Trump's support seems to be people who vote for a guy who looks like he has power to say what they would like to say and do what they would like to do no matter who is hurt, in fact, hurting people would be a bonus for many of them ala January 6th and the various mass shootings involving Trumpers. I can't help feeling sorry for them because they truly believe their Donnie loves them and have no idea that the love is completely unrequited and they are just being used to give the orange guy more power to do more harm to them and others. I don't know what would happen to them if they learned the truth. I am guessing that is why clear, critical thinking is not part of their agenda.
Ruth Sheets read STRONGMEN: Mussolini to the Present by Ruth Ben-Ghiat
Results of polls depend on who responds AND who declines responding to them. Just an elementary fact about any poll. I'd like to see factual numbers on how many people decline to respond the surveys we have now in order to achieve their stated sample size. That too is a statistic - a continually and perhaps intentionally ignored statistic.
And whether respondents tell the truth.
DZK there is a good little book - How To Lie With Statistics
My lived experience shows that the people on the left are dirt broke, lack common sense, and live off welfare. How's that?
Undocumented - How's your Dunning Kruger Effect? You are a great example
The only thing that Polls provide is profits and income for pollsters, and the media.
Polls don't take into account people who decline to answer. Myself I never answer a telephone poll, because I know not to trust them, and they don't ask real questions like Who will you vote for, they ask satisfaction/dissatisfaction questions and they are meaningless. I am dissatisfied with Biden, for sure, but will crawl over broken glass to vote for him, rather than see Trump 47.
The Polls predicted a Hillary Victory, and the predicted a Red Wave in 2022.
And they predict a horse race in 2024, because both polling companies and the media need a horse race, because that is what the public fixates on.
Reality shows are an example, The central them of all is competition. From survivor to the Golden Bachelor.
Horse racing to basketball, competition is what grabs the attention and with it money, and people gamble on anything.
Indignant, defiant and contrived.
You shouldn't demean your parents that way. You shouldn't despise them. They were doing the best they could. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Tells me you don't get around much.
Hilarious and you ARE ignorant!
So.....how will YOU resolve the difference? Just sit on your arse?
Can't read the charts/graphs without buying a membership which I won't do. Can you provide an alternate source? It looks like great info but its expensive.
There is a good little book called How To Lie With Statistics
The whites expected that from South African blacks after apartheid was brought down and it didn't happen. It is a pity that most folks choose to ignore the lessons of the past because, the way I see it, we humans behave in a very predictable manner and history could be a great font of inspiration for what to expect..or not ..and how to behave...or not. Having written that, I disagree with Mr Reich when he says most humans are good. My 50+ years in this planet has shown me that we humans behave one way when alone, as individuals, and that is when most of our greatness and kindness shines bright but when hidden (part) of a group...oh boy....that is when all those demons that define us as a species feel free to express themselves. I don't agree human beings are inherently good, just the opposite. That is why a strong social bond is necessary, now more than ever, and the notion of common good is so important. But it needs to be cultivated and how do we break through the cacophany of nonsense and hatred coming out of most media outlets? Education is a long game but we seems to be out of time, so then, what?
Most trumpsters are dirt stupid and those who aren't are in it for the power. The dirt stupid people will never have that power and the people craving that power are stupid enough to think that they might be in charge of something
Source please.
Hi Terry, I am speaking from personal experience and the economic conditions of those I know are Trump supporters. As far as the millionaires and billionaires supporting him, the NYT just had a story about Wall Street’s big donors contributing to the Trump campaign about a week ago. One of the biggest mysteries to me is how the GOP has been able to link themselves to the working class when they do the bidding of the extremely wealthy class. Trump and his campaign are a true manifestation of that, in my opinion. Anyway, I hope that sheds some light on my previous post and I hope you have a great Memorial Day Weekend, Terry.
Michael, no mystery as to how Republicans link themselves to the working class: The culture war. Working whites see non whites as competition for jobs, and they haven't forgotten that what jobs they had were moved to Mexico and Asia, by Bill Clinton's NAFTA and GATT
The media, the professionals who advise and work on campaigns ignore and downplay the culture war. Because they can't admit that America is and has been locked in a cultural/racial civil war and it has gotten worse since Trump, and is on the verge of becoming hot and that scares them, as well as most of America.
So they, and the media, play ostrich and the three monkey's, like a kid hiding under the covers. If you can't see it, then it doesn't exist.
What you're describing is anecdotal....anecdotal isn't proof, its just anecdotal....kinda like feelings. To truly understand something you need data.....not assumptions and feelings.
Research and critical thinking skills help. Everyone.
Why do you need a source? Do you live under a rock?
What's the matter with you that you can't be civil?
Us Denizens of the net, know that people who request or demand a source are people who don't believe the comment, and are usually of the right wing persuasion. So it is hard to be civil.
However anyone paying attention is aware that it is indeed well to do people, that back Trump.
Take the Trump boat flotillas. Unsurprising small business owners, especially auto dealers, are vehement supporters of Trump. Remember the boat flotillas?
Except that making assumptions on that basis is a pretty stupid thing to do. All your 'evidence' is anecdotal which ultimately isn't worth a shit. Anecdotal is best used to illustrate a point that can be backed up with data. I can't be used for anything else except to get you into trouble.
The best data I've seen was from 2017 https://www.google.com/url?q=https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjEp8Xf5qiGAxUijIkEHTOJCAAQFnoECCMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2tJp2aL7kC6Pn6qO2EtRO5
The point of my question was to find out if anyone on here had newer/better data.....not for people to rant with anecdotal horse-shit and tell me how they FEEL. It's data that wins elections not feelings.
How does one explain Trumpism at various Harvard Clubs? Sort of like Trump sharing the stage with rappers Sheff G and Sleepy Hallow -- both criminals -- at his recent Bronx rally? The possibility of a "pardon." Sort of like the old lady hanging a "fuck Biden" t shirt in her garage. The trill of (safely) being an outlaw.
But how does one explain the Trumpism over at the Harvard Clubs?
Any xxxx supporters I have encountered over these years were not in this demographic, Shervin. They were accomplished professionals or business people, much like many of the participants of the coup on January 6th, which included elected officials.
Race relations are fine for us normal people. It’s only white liberals and the black people that they convinced to be terrified of America have race relations issues.
Regular everyday people get along fine. It’s your poisonous lies telling black people they shouldn’t even try because everyone hates them that’s the problem.
Not sure where you live. But I overheard two deacons at church saying they'd join KKK but it wasn't doing anything. Another person at the same church wouldn't let the black neighbor kid swim in his above-ground pool. So race relations are still a problem.
Very, very perceptive!
Not all. I saw a Trump supporter interviewed. He said his business was doing great under Trump. He was a debt collector.
Replace the so called Trumpism narrative with Elite as a formidable ism. You could easily add a whole cast of other ism’s to the mix but interestingly enough there’s a common denominator to them all. That is that they’re based upon selfishness. I don’t think that we as a human family can survive purely off of a I Me Mind existence. We once had people who well understood the importance of a formula which was steadfast in support of the common good.
One whereby We Ours Us can once again be favored.
Their loyalty to Trump is based on several factors including those you listed. If I were to rank the three biggest factors:
1. Disappointment, anger and blame: Many of them are disappointed and angry with their status or wealth in life. T validates and articulates this anger and gives them groups of people to blame.
2. Religion: Many of them were raised to believe even spiritual leaders are flawed but we must be loyal regardless. Plus, many are anti-choice.
3. Disinformation and ignorance: They get and believe “news” from unreliable sources like Fox. These sources confirm their fears and skewed beliefs. Many of them don’t understand T’s threat to the US and the world because they lack historical knowledge and critical thinking skills. Fundamentally, we haven’t funded education adequately.
I hope we win, but I fear that these factors will make every future election challenging and scary.
All of the above! If you keep the masses under-educated, living paycheck to paycheck, fearful of ‘others’ , you can get them to vote for a ham sandwich.
A lot of religious, yes, but Trump is nearly the opposite of biblical teachings. He is not loving, forgiving, generous or tolerant. Much of Christianity, mostly evangelical, has been co-opted by the wealthy and powerful to convince the "flock" to vote and operate to serve power. In order to maintain a sense of moral high ground they help create an earthly heaven for those Jesus said would have difficulty getting into biblical heaven.
There are very few others indeed whose resume so aptly qualifies him as the Antichrist.
Religion and the Bible are like supermarket aisles, pick and choose that which fulfills your needs and confirms your fears. Nothing more, nothing less.
BTW, as an "Islamophobe", who has actually studied Islam and it's sacred texts. I will say that Quran is not a Christian supermarket like the Bible.. I find a lot of garbled history, myth, fantasy (like Muhammads midnight ride to Jerusalem) but not contradiction.
And there is no escape clause, as there is in Catholicism, confession and penance, or in Protestantism (born again nonsense). It is unforgiving, either you are faithful or you are an apostate, one path to paradise is through martyrdom though.
Evangelicals believe everyone is a sinner. And "hate the sin, love the sinner" was a common phrase, i.e., everyone deserves forgiveness and we should turn the other cheek. Unfortunately, they don't appear.to get to the point of "count your losses and move on", they just continue to turn another cheek!
I’ve challenged people who are Trump voter and devote, and they say even godly men are imperfect. It is bizarre reasoning, but what I’ve told and I understand to be true of heroic biblical figures.
4. Lots of self-pity going around starting with the lead guy. Where's the good ol' American know-how to stand up to make things better instead of crying in your beer?
5. Racism
6. Racism
7. Racism
8. Neoliberalism
Racism is endemic, it is a biologically evolved factor, the suspicion and fear of the other.
However it is also a tool, a tool used, promoted, promulgated and sustained by the ruling class. It is just one tool to keep the human resources quarreling with, at war with and destructing each other.
Divide and conquer, but it is only one such tool, religion politics, sexuality even sports teams, chauvinism in any form be it local or national. All are tools, but for those who suffer disadvantage or discrimination because of racism, then that is all there is, and it is of paramount importance.
Pity the poor, black, lesbian atheist.
It’s a combination of all the factors listed as well as a lack of knowledge about what’s really happening.
Which is fueled by disinformation campaigns and the lack of coverage of the real issues and truth by the mainstream media.
I would add fear to the mix as well....maybe the prime ingredient.
My answer, succinctly put.
What knowledge are they lacking?
Undocumented, really, what knowledge? Are you kidding? How about the truth? That is pretty important knowledge to be lacking and they either don't have access to it or just don't care to encounter it.
Ruth undocumented is a great example of Dunning Kruger Effect.
LVD, I have not heard of the Dunning Kruger Effect. What is it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Terry, thanks for the information. As I was reading, the person who immediately came to mind for me was Donald Trump and his belief in his genius with little evidence of it. His overconfidence has gotten him far more recognition and power than his abilities would warrant. Most of his belief, I believe is familial and related to his wealth or perceived wealth. It would be interesting if the researchers could check out wealth, race, education, and religious background to see if any of those factors impact how a person assesses their abilities, even the value of their skills to society.
You nailed it.
I was actually going to say something constructive, but then I looked at your profile.
People like you lack the common sense to understand even the most basic of actual accurate information and do nothing but live off of misinformation and propaganda. Best of luck with that.
Derek, it’s helpful to note who you are replying to, since that’s not always clear.
Today's parents and grandparents can remember a time when you could go to the doctor or get an education without having to sell a kidney. America's love affair with capitalism has made that impossible today. Min wage hasn't gone up appreciably in decades but the cost of living has skyrocketed. Millionaires have turned into billionaires while the little guy gets screwed. Trump was a disruptor for an electorate desperate for someone, anyone, who might do something differently. Betting on the billionaire rather than the billionaire's mouthpiece never made any sense, but desperation makes people try things that don't make sense. If the Dems had run Bernie, another disruptor, in 2016 voters would have probably chosen him over Trump. Sadly, they weren't that smart; or that brave. None of the items in your poll are actually the cause of anything. They are symptoms. They are what you get in end stage capitalism. They are what you get before the guillotines.
There was no way I would have ever voted for Bernie, even though I liked his program a lot, because I had to deal with his thugs on Facebook. Once Biden forced Bernie to rein them in, Bernie's program had already been decisively beaten by Biden in the polls. At least Biden wasn't a fanatic like Bernie was. His attitudes were reasonable. And look at what all he got passed! Eclipsed FDR's New Deal in doing good, transformational good works. And once Bernie finally got to head a committee through seniority, he seemed to really learn something. His fanaticism largely abated, and he began to show lots of deep inner wisdom. He really grew as a human being.
I am, by type, one of those coastal elites with my 19 years of formal education who likes to be on the cutting edge, even though I come from the far north central part of Illinois. I really like the Pritzgers, for example. My outlook is largely shaped by my Clinical Pastoral Education, twinning being in touch with my feelings and my intellect, including the outlook shaped by my love of becoming/being Enlightened (aware) and engaging my fluid intelligence.
I am shaped not by the bigotry you mention, but by seeing Jesus as a Progressive. How he lived each day by helping the dispossessed and the disenfranchised to become far more whole led directly to his crucifixion by the likes of you. If he had had civil service protection as I did, he never would have been crucified, the end that far too many pastors know in their churches, an outcome that is as painful as it is unjust. And unlike Jesus, we all have the human condition.
There is real cognitive dissonance in this comment, Jacob. Most of the folk on this substack, would in fact be Progressive in following Jesus New Testament, do feed the hungry and would NOT crucify . Many are against the death penalty because human justice is so INACCURATE... so tainted. Do you in fact preach this convoluted message??
Further, Bernie Sanders vision for the US is congruent with Reich's ... I also can not understand the 'thugs on Facebook for Bernie'. Seems more like someone manipulated the media, but unlikely Bernie's campaign.
Yes, I am quite aware that most folks on this thread, including myself, are Progressive. I am also opposed to the death penalty, not only because it is imposed so inaccurately, but because the death penalty itself is wrong. Instead, I would impose life in prison without the possibility of parole, a solution that worked well for Richard Speck. Ipso facto. . .
Bernie’s thugs were all over Facebook until Biden defeated him over and over again in the primaries and then demanded Bernie pull them back. Suddenly they disappeared forever.
Since I wrote there often supporting Biden, I was confronted very roughly by them repeatedly in the meantime.
Bernie’s vision for America in his last presidential campaign seemed to be largely based on life as it was than known in Denmark. I agreed with that viewpoint, but I felt more comfortable with the more moderate tone of Biden, also that Biden’s approach would have more likelihood of getting through Congress.
Jacob, Facebook is not America, nor Bernie's voters, There is a certain personality that haunts and trolls Facebook, and often it is the opposite of whom yo think they are. I
It is a known tactic to present yourself as someone or something you are opposed to.
Reverse psychology. Lenin famously said: Propose what you oppose, oppose what you propose and your enemies will hand you the keys to the kingdom on a silver platter.
I had an asshole of a step son, defied my authority, baited me to hit him, but I used reverse psychology on him and won what was a struggle for head of the house.. He is a grown man in his 50's now, and still the asshole, he drove his own son away.
Anyway, shame on you for being on Facebook, none of my family are, Facebok is the home of ideological trolls.
But there you are. Lol.
Those "thugs" may have been Trotskyites, the kind represented by the WWSW (WorlWide Socialist Website.) In many ways, they support the kind of things Bernie supports and could be a natural ally, but on the other hand they support things like the former Soviet Union (Russia), making them come off a lot like the МАГАт Яepuблиkan$, which Bernie would consider reprehensible. That explains why, although they may seem to be almost natural allies for Bernie, they have no problem portraying him as lower than a dog - a pseudo-socialist. That would explain why you experienced the thuggishness you associate with Bernie.
I followed their newsletter for a while and tried to post some of their articles here for people to consider and encouraged them to subscribe to the newsletter themselves. I got sharply criticized a bit that it was Russian propaganda. No. It's actually not. It's Trotsky propaganda and should be considered a more Soviet perspective. Trotsky was ostensibly a Soviet. I encourage you - and everyone here - to subscribe to that newsletter and approach it the same way you would Fox news.
I follow neither Trotsky nor Lenin.
I'm not suggesting you should. I'm only saying you should be aware of their message. We've heard the МАГАт message ad nauseum, and I'm just saying it's instructive see how much МАГАтs are like Trotskyites.
Thanks DZK. Trotskyites, That explains my disaffection with Democracy Now and the Nation, whom I use to subscribe to and financially support, until I noticed that they overused the charge of colonialism and imperialism, and obliquely were pro Russian (in the name of peace), now it is pro (but hbliquely) HAMAS.
I was just postulating on where the "thuggery" Mr Graves associates with Bernie may come from.
There is much to admire about Jesus. Many modern Christians obscure his humanity for the sake of making him a puppet of their own vanity. Had Christianity survived, it would have made for different times.
Was there a historical Jesus, I think not, in any event the Roman Empire co opted this ideological movement, whose fountain head was a Yahooshua, (Joshua, the name means savior BTW).
There is a Jesus in the NT for almost everyone, The Jesus who says love thy neighbor, the Jesus of the good Samraritan and Sermon on the Mount, and the Jesus of Luke who tells his disciplies to sell their cloak and buy a sword, and bring before me those that will not have me reign over them and slay them and the Jesus that tells slaves to obey their master.
Something for everyone, then there is the misogynistic, patriarchal misogynistic Augustus Caesarian Jesus of Paul (Saul).
As I discern it a group of educated stoic men of the Hebrews, realizing that they coldn't defeat Rome by warfare or guerrilla tactics, came upon a scheme by which to defeat it within, by creating a pacifistic ideology, and it almost worked, until a Roman soldier name of Constantine defeated another soldier and his army,named Maxentius, at a battle of the Milivian bridge in the northern part of Rome over the Tiber river.
Like Ahkenaton he saw that it was easier and cheaper to control a population with one god and priesthood rather than the thousands that the Romans had (there was even a god for the itch named Scabies) and one of the Phallus, Priapus.
Each god had it's own priesthood and each demanded a temple, and temples cost money to money to build and maintain, and there are the hundreds of competing priesthoods demanding recognition and prominence. An unmanageable, expensive and time consuming mess. So much easier with one god, one priesthood, who then claims that your right to rule comes from their god.
I try to follow Jesus, not necessarily what any church or denomination says or does.
You sound very mistaken about Bernie. Not sure who these “Thugs” are. He hasn’t changed one bit throughout his career. Has always stood for the same causes. To this day he still puts down the “one percent,” etc.. and pushing health care for all. If you pay close attention you will see that he’s got Biden’s ear and the reason for Biden’s progressive agenda that you seem to like.
Jacob you were doing so well, until you started witnessing. Then you blew it.
lol! I was simply being myself.
Being yourself is a turnoff to others not of your persuasion. The positive values that you find in the bible, are universal, like the golden rule, and not particularly Christian. Ppr instance charity towards the poor, is obligatory in Islam, and discretionary in Christianity.
Mind you in both cases it is only for those of the same persuasion.
Let’s put down the eternal boxing match, and make sure we’re not compelled next year to buy and read the Trump Bible at Federal Religious Institutions. May Mother Boebert be with you.
Charity towards the poor is OBLIGATORY in Christianity. Reference Matthew 25:31-46, which encapsulates my calling.
BTW, we should all be real, be honest, be who we are deep inside. In the same way, I respect you whether or not you respect me. If you cannot respect this paragraph, our discussion has ended.
Sorry Jacob all of the Christian bible is discretionary, because there is an out. For Catholics it is confession and abolution, for Protestants it is being born again, washed in the blood of the lamb.
For Muslims there is no escape clause no out. In Islam the poor gather at the door of the Masjid, and the faithful leaving Friday Prayers give what they can. There is no such thing in Christianity and if they were the church elders would call the cops.
You have to remember, Mr. Reich in this morning's video, said that there are two types of capitalism: stakeholders capitalism- community accountability.
shareholders capitalism- more profits for shareholders. Shareholders capitalism being the one that's toxic.
I have no ability to find anything good about Trump. He's a cancerous monster with nothing but vengeance and evil to spew. He's a psycho sick deranged excuse for a human.
I tapped the OTHER in this pool, because I really feel that ALL OF THE ABOVE play a significant role in many people's minds as to why they see something in that decadent creature.
Come to Florida. Trump supporters are not dirt poor. Their fear of the Democratic socialist-influenced Biden is the slew of Trump-era individual tax cuts which are set to expire in 2025. Tax optimization is the competitive sport for the wealthy. That is the very foundation of the Republican Party. No matter who is at the helm, the individualist, winner-takes-all goal is all that matters
The inaccurate analysis through Fox grabs at folks emotions. Many things are wrong but Trunpty will never solve them. Pretense to lead. Many do not understand the fundamentals. However, Dems have been in the majority and not moved our world in the right direction. Bernie is the one who held the vision many want and more would want if they thought it could happen and not break their bank. The widening income gap feeds, citizens united, elimination of the fairness doctrine, corporations as individuals all feed, now a flood of economic migrants eating all reserves while American citizens languish are all tearing the US apart.
The ones getting through, by and large are not economic migrants, it isn't Mexicans that are piling up at our borders, those from Central America are fleeing violence, rape and murder, the Venezuelans are middle class persons, who because of US Sanctions, imposed at the behest of Exxon Mobil, find themselves at the same economic and social status as the peasants they use to exploit, There are in fact, Sikhs from India, Arabs from the mid east, Haitians, Chinese nationalist and others who come here for political reasons, or on a mission, not fleeing oppression either.
Most are not economic migrants, although Venezuelans are, haven fallen from the middle class to the lower class, since Chavez had the pure gall, the outrageous temerity to believe that Venezuelan oil belonged to Venezuela and not Exxon Mobil.
If Trumpism gets a majority the US may safely be discounted from the league of civilized nations
I fear that's already the case.
Some people believe in simple solutions to difficult problems. My feeling is that only bigots would find Trump and his views appealing.
Trump continually bitches about how unfair he is being treated. If Donnie Boy was an honest man none of this would be happening to him. He must enjoy pain because his presents situation is nothing more than an "SIW."
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What is a Donald Trump--
Donald Hodgins <silencenotbad@gmail.com>
8:52 AM (0 minutes ago)
This curiosity of nature is reflective of nothing worthwhile. The Don is an abusive want-to-be, he surrounds himself with an inner core of individuals who, being loyalists, will do for him what he can't do for himself, which is basically everything. Except for a change of diapers and a fresh bottle of moo-juice Trump has never really grown up, he is still the spoiled little brat he has always been. Unspanked, and as a result undisciplined, Trump is our modern-day Nero, and he is looking for something to burn while he fiddles around wondering who he can demean next. Where was mifepristone when we needed it.
Donald Hodgkins:
Trump is the outward manifestation of the inner person of his cult.
He is not a person, but a symbol, an avatar. That is why his cult igores his criminaltity and perversion.
They see Trump, they see themselves, he is their stepping stone to social control, which is power.
William--Deep stuff, and unnerving.
It is only human to not see the forest because of the trees.
The infantry man doesn't see the force bearing down on him,he only sees the enemy to his front.
I forgot that I came here to drain the swamp, because I'm to busy fighting alligators.
We only see Trump, not the force behind him. Trump is only the personal manifestation of the force of evil that is behind him.
If I were a Christian I would think or say that he was the anti-Christ who has beguiled the Christians awaiting the return of their savior.
A couple of quotes by H L Mencken
Here he predicts Reagan, Ford, Bush and finally Trump
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
― H.L. Mencken, On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
― H.L. Mencken, Notes on Democracy
There are many of a liberal persusasion who abhor Mencken because of the above and this
“The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.”
― H.L. Mencken
“If, after I depart this vale, you ever remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl.”
― H. L. Mencken
“On one issue, at least, men and women agree: they both distrust women.”
― H. L. Mencken
“Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others. His culture is based on "I am not too sure.”
― H.L. Mencken
“Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may be looking.”
― H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
“We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.”
― H.L. Mencken, Minority Report
The enemy of the people--
Donald Hodgins <silencenotbad@gmail.com>
11:37 AM (0 minutes ago)
In the 1930s an aspiring private from the previous world war told the people of Germany that the news media was the real enemy of the people. In essence what this did, because of the public's acceptance, was remove the truth from the equation. With only his lies to rely upon, the German people allowed Hitler to destroy a country and in the process sacrifice the lives of some 60,000,000 Europeans. We, today are embroiled in a power struggle with the reincarnated image of that insane man from the 1930s. Trump has repeatedly told his base that the news media is the true enemy of the people, does that sound familiar? Hitler's motto was "Make Germany Great Again." Trump has designs of continuing Hitler's efforts here in this country. If SCOTUS grants Trump the immunity he desires, the only difference between what they had back then and what we have now is the color of their hair.
Donald, Adolph was a corporal a message runner in German trenches, not a private, In the 1930's he was a civilian.. The rest of the post is historial.
William--I stand corrected, I don't know why I made that error because I knew what you said. I may have been a little right. Usually upon entering the military an enlisted man began as a private. So maybe Mr. Hitler started as one and advanced to the other.
The official NAZI history said that he got an Iron Cross for bravery, but that would hardly happen to a runner.
William--That depends upon what Adolf had to run through.
I believe income inequality plays the largest factor. The American people have been lied to by government and media for years so a lot of them are willing to take the risk on a guy who is antiestablishment hoping he will help improve their lives! It’s truly a shame what’s happening to our country.
Keith ; It is ironic that the voters who are burned out by sell outs to big money are going to support one of the the biggest crooks in the world.
The kicker is the antiestablishment guy for them is a fortunate son with a gold toilet in his penthouse. This Memorial Day weekend people need to be reminded that this rich kid avoided the draft and later said “real heroes don’t get caught” about a POW. Unreal how so many pretend that he didn’t say that and personally I know a Vietnam vet that will protest for him!
Shegirlagain ; Yes, and the words tRUMP uses to describe those in captivity "losers" and those in active duty status : "suckers"! WTF?
inequality is like the kindle for a fire
As a practicing meditator, I work with my thoughts throughout each day. I keep up on the news online from many sources. I use thoughts of Trump as a practice to nurture understanding etc. I would be angry all the time without that approach to this man's disturbing encouragement of hate through name calling and lies. Trump is not a mindful man. It helps to remember that as I see all the chaos that is created from his mindlessness. I think it could be easy to get sucked into emotions that are not beneficial without a mindful view. I appreciate your words of knowledge and wisdom...they are most helpful. Thank you Robert!
In point of fact, Trump is not sane. He suffers from several known issues, possibly more.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Oppositional Defiance Disorder (ODD)
And with the onset of his dementia, Trump is really not fit for any public office that requires him to be trustworthy. His reasoning and logic revolve around only what DJT wants/needs. Maybe without the disorders and dementia DJT would have made a great public servant. With them he should be kept away from all public offices and perhaps institutionalized soon, if not immediately.
Thank you for saying this, Terry. He is not sane. I am not a psychologist but I think most of his supporters aren't either. How we came to have such a large mentally ill population I don't know but it's terrifying.
As Barum said, there's one born every minute. So its nothing new, ....and Trump has been practicing his entire life. The percentages likely haven't changed....just the sheer numbers have. Also remember that for a great number of them, this is a protest vote. They voted for Obama, they voted for Bernie. They simply want a change. My own take is that when Democrats decided to be like Republicans and go after the $$ they left a lot of their natural constituents out in the cold. This is them. Lost more than mentally ill.
Yes, that's all true. But to protest by voting for a racist supporter of totalitarians who disrespects military heroes and disabled people? That's beyond protest, I think. That's la la land, which is why I said what I did. Don't you think?
A sign of true desperation ?? Yes there are those for whom Trump is the perfect candidate. But for many he's just a means to another, hopefully a better, end.
Terry, He's a sick puppy. It's a FACT! He projects back everything that he hears that is said about himself and he has even made up the trump derangement syndrome. He began talking about Biden not being fit, when he was talked about that way. Right down the line he's done that. I know there's a book or two out there written by mental health experts about his severe increasing mental problems. It's unfathomable that he held the office for 4 years. It's made it clear to me that more is needed in the way of qualification for the office of President of the US...not just money but maybe a record of moral fitness. I don't know how that would be set up but somehow, SOMETHING.
The real problem is that while many of us can see that DT is not mentally well, no-one who can actually formally diagnose him has access to him. I am trying to get one family member to speak to another, but she has been told he likely has narcissistic personality disorder, but none of those stating the diagnosis have ever met him. I admit he is a jerk and an idiot, and worse when he was younger, but not narcissistic.
Dawn, I do something similar to you. Recently as the firehose of despicable revelations seems to come in overwhelming waves about Trump, I try to think about what formed this man. What was his childhood, his father like, and seemingly emotionally absent mother. How this man must have been terribly traumatized in his youth. Other than the easy answer of 'he was simply born this way,' I think there has to be more substantial reasons. I believe no human being could choose this emotional life. If we take some of Maggie Haberman's anecdotes as accurate, he was selfish, thoughtless, aggressive as a child. That indicates to me very early trauma. And, yes, I despise Trump as much as the next (rational) person, But I choose to try to understand how a person can become like this, and then continue on my way to ensuring that he never gets to sully our country again.
Jacquelyn, I have read quite a few books on his background and also books about the consensus of people who have been around him through the years of his development into the person he is now. I have realized that it will make me crazy, trying to understand crazy. So I work on myself by watching my thoughts about him and the situations that he's creating in the world. When I feel myself slipping into name calling and hate, I realize how contagious it is. Michelle Obama said, "When they go low, we go high." That's a mouthful and a practice in itself. So what began as an attempt to understand has turned into a foundation of strength for me. I stand strong in the knowledge that this man and his followers will not overwhelm the common good. We can all stand together on a foundation of 'goodness'. I am immoveable from that foundation as I go forward.
I understand that his father was extremely racist, and also very denigrating towards his children. If his mother couldn't step into the void, he had next to no chance. However, others from equally horrible backgrounds did not turn into such people as DT, so why did he?
I think there is a visceral thrill that comes with hearing someone say the dark thoughts out loud, whether those thoughts are about "foreigners," "elites," or whatever else. Reality doesn't enter into it. Truth and facts don't matter. Understanding the nuance of complicated relationships and situations is unnecessary. It just feels really good to support a leader who will "kick ass" on your behalf when you feel powerless to do so yourself.
Excellent point, Nancy.
yeah yeah. You kick ass Trump baby. For the home team that's been spit on and cheated.
Of course he's not really for the home team, but damn, he wears the cap and jersey.
So yeah, yeah, kick their ass Trump baby.
Status, Prestige & Hierarchy!
Trumpism descends from this universal competition in all mammalian societies.
The wealthy élite helped returning WWII soldiers build good middle class American Dream lives in the 1950s.
However, they failed to teach this concept to their children & grandchildren.
Instead, the Common Good is ignored by most in favour of Me and being bigger than my cohort.
Couple that with another innate human desire for Great Leaders (religious, kings, dictators, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Mao, et al), and it’s amazing that there’s any Common Good at all.
Finally, we forget that we war our way to wealth. Let’s remember how much the American Empire depends on the Military-Industrial economy to take what’s needed from developing countries to create luxurious lives in developped western countries. Our Common Good can create uncommon chaos worldwide.
The elites on the hill, both sides, don’t seem to be able to deliver good people centred reforms anymore. This Gaza conflict is just one of many examples where politicians have been exposed as lackies of their donors eg the gun lobby. So you wonder why people are picking an anti politician. Agreed he is much worse but the elite politicians have to take responsibility for their creation. I believe many join politics with good intentions but when they get there they are shown the rules. Most follow and those that don’t don’t get back in next time. Electors don’t trust you anymore to be working for them. Biden was doing reasonably well till he fell into this Zionist hole. I’m in despair.
Trumpet 🎺 tracks his con game using his wallet. There is no real plan except be noticed and then monetize his fame into cash…
Golden sneakers, trumpet 🎺 Bible, trumpet 🎺 university collection the money is the goal…
Confidence and Magic Beans 🫘
The Orange Jesus
But never forget the seriously determined people he has in the background working on Project 2025. We underestimated him in 2016 let’s not do it again.
The most dangerous person working on Project 2025 is Stephen Miller. Smart, articulate, bigoted, and capable of carrying out Project 2025 if Trump is elected in 2024. Tapped for a top position in a future Trump administration as he was when Trump was president.
Yes people need to be reminded a vote for Trump is a vote for him and Banner and the like.
Hillary Clinton made trumpet 🎺 possible
If the Democrats run her again trumpet 🎺 will win again…
The name of the game is get out the Vote
The more people vote the stronger our society is…
Elections are beauty contests ; trumpet 🎺 loves the spotlight . His mantra is Love me Hate me spell my name correctly . How can trumpet 🎺 monetize this campaign and put money 💰 in his pocket…
Hillary said the words out allowed and called Trump leaning voters “the deplorables”. Big mistake. People vote for trump largely for valid reasons and until democrats treat those voters with respect they will keep losing. Trump has gone some way with his various funding bills but they need to talk the talk too.
No. Hillary was right about EVERYTHING!
Read her speeches in 2016 and watch the debates. Trump is DEPLORABLE and so are his supporters!
And that’s why she lost. No self reflection.
Biden has received the most amount of funds from AIPAC of any US politician. This explains his 'foot dragging' on Gaza to me.. Inexcusable however. He has always been a hawk.
Ok Biden wants to win the next election to save the world from Trump. If he goes angainst Israel now what are his chances when there is a long history of Aipac unseating people who go against them? He is in a desperate situation.
I believe Biden wants to do the right thing but he seems trapped by the 70's
I think you're right that politicians in general are toxic and useless, Precious. Even Democrats. A case in point is Dick Durbin and his attitude about Alito. "Oh well, there's nothing we can do." Nonsense. Of course there is. No wonder people become disillusioned.
I don't think there is alot we can do about Alito, so I agree with Durbon on that. And I think there are plenty of good Dems trying to make a positive difference. Although generally Dems in Congress have too much a defeatist attitude for me. Even if you know you don't have the votes sometimes its worthwhile to go for it anyway IMO.
Actually it turns out that Durbin and Whitehouse have written a letter to Roberts asking for a meeting and asking that Alito recuse himself. I guess all those calls and emails made a difference after all. Robert Hubbell says he doesn't think Roberts will respond but I think it's important that people of that stature are trying to make a difference, as you say. This is how things get done, even if it takes a while.
It’s a personality cult built on a TV personality suggesting entrepreneurial success and executive power. Both of which were fiction. Often cults are based on a fictional image of the leader. This is clearly one and the main reason the ‘followers’ are loyal and ignore the information that contradicts the created image is a difficulty in admitting that one has fallen for a con.
Correctly call it a cult but it doesn't take much to snare a fully supportive person or group. Just one answered prayer can make lifetime convert. Or, one simple comment such as , "I will build a wall..." can unite a fanatical group. It's shocking to hear why most people vote for whoever they vote for. "He works for us." or "He sent me a stimulus check." or "He put a wealth on his Greek grandmother's grave." Sadly, the human race is much like a little child whose lifelong devotion can be had with the purchase of an ice cream cone.
I don’t think we should put much confidence in the answers cult followers might give as explanations for becoming followers. I’m more interested in how the mainstream media would explain the failure to make clear the absence of evidence of the leader’s claims. Although, I have to admit, the response to the speech to the libertarians did get more publicity than usual.
Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing. I think once a cult follower snaps in, the media's role in our culture is to exploit the love of DT with a continuous stream of supportive narrative to extract the maximum amount of revenue. With the overwhelming flood of misinformation, I find myself wishing my favorite news sources would be less objective in reports of my favorite candidates since I feel we are at war where reasonable discourse is a casualty. And that's really sad.
I live in Florida, worse than that in The Villages. I have no local news sources that pay any attention to candidates I like and it probably doesn’t matter. Under DeSantis the state that had a somewhat cosmopolitan population has become a Trumpland in miniature. Since 2916 the only discourse is GOP propaganda. Fortunately all of our children live in more reasonable political environments (MI, MA, OR).
Ugh. I guess I won't be moving there. The sad and crazy piece of these times is the fact that we work closely with people who are very much members of the opposition. There's no Blue firefighters or Blue police and no Red engineers or Red nurses. We're simply firefighters, cops, engineers and nurses doing our jobs. We laugh and sweat together at our places of work. The relatively small part of our lives, which we should be fiercely excited about, is our united front against poverty, exploitation, sickness as we strive for a better world. The ruling class has embraced a fanatical national media driven by record profits. Add an evangelical crusade to the mix and you get a government body out of sync. And let's not forget the people who want to show how pissed off they by eagerly decrying anything the government does.
We found the internet and haven't figured out how to make it work for improving the country. We have figured out how to engage people. Hopefully, a unified senses of decency will arise and we'll be able to embrace civil discourse in an improved way. Interestingly, I think this has happened in the American business world.
Except for the fact of seduction by a conman, our neighbors are wonderfully decent. However it is easy for us to avoid probing their beliefs about how a just society should care for those who are less fortunate. We moved here before the Trump era began, March, 2014 to be exact. We had lived in a neighboring county for seven years after our retirement, but it was too rural. The Villages was a rapidly growing phenomenon then and we had friends who made the choice to retire here from MI about the same time we moved to Citrus County just west of where we are now. When we visited the we saw many things we liked and made a decision to live in the rapidly growing retirement community which seemed slightly more urban. We weren’t unhappy living in a GOP dominated area until the emergence of Trump as a political political phenomenon. In fact, we couldn’t believe that he was able to defeat more reasonable (to us) candidates in the party. Our naïveté continued into November and the election and we were shocked by Clinton’s loss. We considered a move, but decided our ages made it unwise.
Yes, TV has a hypnotic effect that can be hard to shake. I think you're absolutely right about this.