“Netanyahu says he intends to press ahead with the attack nevertheless. "We'll go there. We're not going to leave them. You know, I have a red line. You know what the red line is? That October 7 doesn't happen again. Never happens again." —Netanyahu
Ironically, the only reason Israel was attacked is because of Netanyahu and his “right-wing” regime. They ignored the intelligence, moved more than half their troops from Gaza to the West Bank months before the attack, and took over eight hours to dispatch a military force to counter Hamas’s rampage.
The only question we should be asking ourselves is how is this guy still Prime Minister? And I agree, we should cut off all offensive military aid to Israel.
Netanyahu believes we are the United States of Israel, instead of America. It’s time we cutoff the spigot, and let Netanyahu fend for himself until the Israeli citizenry rises up, and gets rid of him and his right-wing cabal of crazies for good.
We aren’t doing Israel or ourselves any good by supporting the status quo and Netanyahu’s dystopian vision for the Palestinian people’s future.
When Netanyahu tells us it’s his job to make sure this never happens again; I disagree, it was his job to make sure this never happened in the first place. And from that perspective, he failed miserably!
The mess in the Middle East really has no solution as things currently stand. It's a three-ring circus with more ring master's than you can shake a stick at, a love triangle of hate driven by the thrust for innocent blood. If we stop military aid to the Israeli effort the British would have to make a decision.
The British backing for Israel is helping to sustain an unbearable status quo. Making a difference to Netanyahu will take the cooperation of the UK in joining our effort to control the carnage in Gaza. At present we are stating our military aid given to the Israeli government can only be used for defensive purposes. Biden has no real power to control Netanyahu, but he can make him aware of my grandfather's favorite saying, "I can't make you do anything, but I can make you wish you had."
Empty rhetoric. Stop the arms supply. Funny how two republican presidents were able to make Israel tow the line previously. And I'm no fan of republicans
Ray--The only line they towed was the lunch line. Israel only did what they did in the past because the area was basically quiet. Given the same destructive forces that we witnessed on 10/7 and things would have been different, no matter who our President was. The times they are a changing.
The area was not quiet. Go read something. And your approach that the Israel Palestine conflict somehow started on Oct 7th is obviously biased. Israel is the aggressor historically.
By that logic, what if a few rogue American citizens were Hamas recruits? Would that entitle Israel to attack America and wipe out unrelated innocent Americans?
And that's why you people are ignorant and stupid. Do you think everything was fine, it was all peace and harmony in Gaza and the West Bank. No of course it wasn't but you want to absolve the IDF and the Israeli government, and to some extent the Israeli people for allowing this situation to get worse and worse. But hey, you pretend history started on Oct 7th. By your logic, I could arbitrarily pick Nov 7th, forget about what happened before and just pick that as the point to judge the situation. Dumb.
No Israel is not the aggressor. For example, look at 1973. Look at who started THIS war. Infadada or whatever disturbed the peace did not start with Israel!
I love the cherry-picking. When did Israel start stealing lands from Palestinians? How many Palestinian deaths have their been in comparison to Israeli deaths? You people are so selective. I could imagine you guys saying 'Hey, look at D Day and all the aggression of the west's forces on those poor innocent Germans' Thats how stupid you sound.
Intifada (look up the correct spelling) was resistance by an occupied people. The 'peace' you speak of, is essentially Israeli oppression/land grab/jailing/dehumanizing Palestinians. It started in 1948. 750k Palestinians were forced out of their homes, their farms, their businesses. Fully 70% of the people in Gaza are refugees/descendants of refugees of the 1948 Nakba (disaster). Can anyone in the U.S. imagine, an outside group, coming to their homes, knocking on the door, and telling you to get the hell out, your home/property is now forfeit to the state of Israel. I encourage you to do some reading. "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pape (Jewish son of IDF General) is a good place to start. Ray Payne, this is for you, as well.
He’s going back to the Suez Canal crisis in 1956, and Reagan in 1980. All points that aren’t relevant to this discussion. Israel wasn’t a strategic ally in 1956, or in 1980….:)
I call bullshit, they are in cahoots with Republicans and they want another one installed so they can rape and pillage the American people to. How irresponsible a statement. They gave US secrets to their Middle East friends and want bloodshed to reign down upon us. How did you miss this? Seriously.
You keep repeating nonsense. The two presidents were Eisenhower (against Israel and Britain during the Suez crisis) and as you stated earlier, Reagan.
The difference is Israel wasn’t an ally in 1956, and wasn’t a strategic interest in 1980. So continue to regurgitate insignificant points that have no bearing on the relationship now, as though they are significant to the current crisis.
Amazing how you place all the blame on the US, when we didn’t start this war, Hamas did. Yet, we’d never this by you ignorant comments.
Not a fan of the GOP either and especially with it's twisted MAGA platform. We can only hope that Biden and Blinken can get Netanyahu and Israel to see the light. If Trump gets reelected, Gaza would likely get absorbed by Israel which would be even more catastrophic and a two-state solution would be off the table.
I'm sorry mate, I don't do the 'oh things will be worse under Trump for Palestinians'. Right now they are dying from enforced starvation, and almost 40000 dead from the IDF terrorist attacks, supported and armed by the US. Biden should be in the Hague alongside Netenyahu.
That's because your view is ridiculously narrow. . . mate. Because sadly Biden has other concerns than just making Netanyahu back off the slaughter of thousands of innocent Palestinians. He's also governing and trying to maintain democracy in the largest country in the West. I'd love to see him tell Netanyahu to call elections before getting any more military aid, but the grave consequences of having Trump back in the White House go far beyond the hideous situation in Gaza. It would have horrible momentus impacts in the US and the world. Awful as things are in Gaza, having Trump back would be worse, not just for Palestinians but people and countries around the world.
if the risk of trump is so great, and the danger of Trump is even greater for Gaza, and you care at all, why wouldn’t Genocide Joe emasculate that vile ethnostate?
Guess what, Joyce. 1492. Does that date ring a bell? Guess where the expelled Jews found refuge. In countries ruled by the Ottoman Empire, in other words, Muslim-ruled countries. (Even before that date, Jews were finding refuge from Christian pogroms in Muslim-ruled territories). At that time - 1492 - Greece was under Ottoman rule. Look up the history of Thessalonika. Yes. Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together. It has been done. It can be done.
I'll give you one. Reagan stopped the export of Fighter jets to Israel and got them to cool their heels when they were on a war footing. So go read and educate yourself. You realise that you making the claim that 'that never happened' means you need to back up your stupid assertion, not just rely on me to give you factual history. Your response is the equivalent of a 5 year old going 'nu-huh'.. you people are pathetic in your ignorance
Cite your sources. You're the one making the claim and using the charlatan's dodge "do your research" as if you possess some naturally imbued authority other than your unsupported opinion. Put up or shut up! Don't bother responding with anything other than links to your sources, otherwise you'll be making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have, since I'll not respond to anything you say other than the sources I >demand< you show. And until you pony up those sources, I'm plainly saying you are some kind of MAGA or Trotskyite >charlatan< convinced we're the kind of idiots you're well practiced at hustling, and not worthy of any further response. You're a waste of time and keystrokes.
Go fuck yourself. Google it moron. I gave you one already. You stick your head in the sand if you like... Its not that hard to find it. You're like some flat earther shouting 'Give me scientific proof' when there's plenty there to find.
Ray I've read enough of your comments to know that you are an intellectual light weight and out of your element. Just as all partisans you are blinded by your beliefs, your fears and your smug self righteousness, you believe that libs are inferior, and of course you believe that you and your kind are superior.
Just another fool and tool Ray, just another fool and tool.
What drives you is the gut wrenching feeling that you are on the losing side of a grand game, otherwise you wouldn't even bother with a bunch of liberals.
I hope you feel good getting that out of your system. Absolutely nothing by the way of a point or argument to make. Now off to bed and don't forget to get mammy to tuck you in and get a nice glass of milk and a cookie.
There is no chance of peace in the Middle East, and chance of a settlement or a two state solution, because it is not a problem. Problems have solutions. There is no solution, because this is a 1400 year old religious conflict.
It started in Medina when Muhammad had 600 members of the Jewish tribe of Banu Quaryza beheaded, six at a time, (it is in the Quran). And is further sacralized by the hadith of al Bukhari, sahaih 1295/1296, book 56,.hadith 139, also in the 1988 HAMAS Covenant para 7, Art 7.
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
Any Muslim who makes peace with the Jews is an apostate, And Israel is a Jewish state.
A truce can be had though, since a truce, but not recognition of a Jewish State.
Someone has to stop and say "Enough!" Someone needs to draw a line under the past and say "It's time to change." Religious books are no more everlasting truths than constitutions. If we don't change we don't grow and we condemn ourselves to hell on earth forever more. Who will have the courage to step up? We need a new Gandhi or Mandela.
Picking quotes from the Koran is as meaningless an explanation for the Palestine-Israel political situation as picking quotes from the Old Testament.
How about some more contemporary quotes?
"The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war." - David Ben-Gurion 1937
"The West Bank and Gaza will be restored to the people of Israel. All if it. Forever." - Menachim Begin 1954. Israel never intended to accept a two state solution.
Lee--- I think it began with Moses and Joshua as they swept across Cannan and conducted genocide upon everyone they saw. It was God's will. The people of that region have a terrific memory.
As an atheist, a skeptic, a non believer in anything.I am going to say something that will be considered "antisemitic" and by semite I include Muslims because they believe the fairy tale that they are descended from "Abraham's" son Ismael and the Jews from "Abraham's" son Isaac.
The whole origin myth which Christians call the Old Testament, and Jews call the Pentateuch or Torah, is bullshit, it was purloined from the Babylonians, as the people we now call Jews, and he Egyptians called Habiru, worked in the library of Babylon and knew the origin story of the Sumerians. The subsequent books which are the TeNACH, are stories purloined from the peoples among whom they lived, some of it history, the rest myth, and the Kings and Prophets in the TeNACH are composites. For instance Solomon is a composite of the wise fish god of the Assyrians and some Assyrian kings, same with David.
It is a book of fiction, and upon that is based the three major cults of the western and Middle East, anc Central Asian world.
I've done my own reading and research, including Godgrey Higgins, Anacalypsis: Drawing aside the Saitic Veil, (two thick volumes in fine print), published in the 19th Century, and Sir Robert Burton's, the Jew, the Gypsy and El Islam (he was one of the few infidels that visited Mecca)
Here is what I have learned. There was a tribe of camel drivers, Merchants, in the Indus Valley, in the region of where live the Pashtun. (The Pashtun have so many Hebrew words and even a village called Talumd..in the 19th century) that Israeli Rabbis consider them a lost tribe.
These camel drivers, merchants plied the silk road, and settled in commercial centers like Babylon and Tyre.
When Cyrus the Great, whom they call mashiach of messiah, laid siege to Babylon, they were not of a mind to die for a King, not of their tribe, so they made a deal with Cyrus and threw open the gates.
Cyrus rewarded them with a piece of land, named Uru Salem, named for the Storm God, the Plaque god known by the names Uru and Salem.
Meanwhile over in Tyre, members of this tribe, hitched rides on Phoenician boats and sailed to Egypt, where they engaged in commercial practices, including lending, and they prospered, too well in fact, that the Egyptians complained to their King (Pha RA oh), and the Pharaoh, evicted them from his kingdom. They eventually also arrived in Uru Salem.
The Egyptians called them Habiru, which means cutthroat/thief, and they were polytheistic, worshiping among other gods Ba'al.
You don't build a cohesive tribe, by basing it on a story that you were evicted from Egypt, so the story of the Exodus was concocted, after this figure they named Moses (which is Egyptian for born or first born Tuthmoses means born of god Toth), Whether they didn't blow trumpets to bring down the walls of Jericho, the walls fell because of an earthquake, and it was a small town at any rate.
As regards the slaughter of the Amelkites, Ca'amites and other genocidal acts, including the David and Goliah story, there is no evidence, more than like tribe building myths, to show how great and superior was the tribe. No doubt small clans and tribes were encountered, and from them were adopted many of the stories and prophets that wound up in the Old Testaments (TeNACH), and I am sure there were bloody encounters, just like happens all over the world when migrating peoples encounter sedentary peoples. How many native Americans did the migrating Americans wipe out, how many untold tribes did the Sarmatians, and Huns, the Goths, wipe out? Those that survived became part of the whole. It is that way and always has been since mankind staked a claim on territory for survival.
Kentucky was no man's land for the tribes that live around it, like the Cherokee, Shawnee an Fox, it was hunting ground, and anyone who was foolish enough to try and live there paid the price with their lives.
I'll forgo the genesis of Islam, the story is in the Quran, and most of that is also fiction. and it's sacred text were written during the Rashidun, Umayyad, and Abbasid caliphates. ,most of it fiction, just like the "New Testament", and on the basis of these works of identity building fiction, hundreds of millons have been slaughtered and suffer and still being murdered and suffering today.
Pure insanity. My question then is there really intelligent life on earth. If aliens exist and they are watching us from UAP's, then Earth is an intergalactic Serengeti and we are the apes that are being studied, maybe an object lesson for families. "Look what happens if you don't behave".
Interesting comment, and I agree, religion is a fantastical cult. I’m Jewish but don’t practice. It’s all based on illusionary beliefs; some from real historical events, others just created through mythology, not unlike the Greek and Roman Gods.
I’d be more inclined to believe this earth was seeded by aliens from another galaxy, than any religion that exists today. Not to say all religion is bad. They do offer a sense of purpose and salvation for those who have no discipline in life, or a limited education.
That said, religion and god is mutually exclusive; I believe in god, just not the versions based on our understanding of an omnipotent being.
I understand an irreligeous Jew. It is an etnicity you are born into, via the maternal line. My great grandmother was a Jews (sephardic until the 3rd World Jewish Congress declared that all Jews were Ashkenzim.if you follow the blood line per the Talmud, I too am an ethnic Jew, My great grandmother, my grandmother, my mother and then me and my sisters (no brothers)
Unlike Christians and Muslims, Jews come in all flavors from atheists like Einstein to the Haredi Jews. There are secular Jews like you, progressive Jews like Jon Stewart and conservative Jews like David Weiss, You will find liberal and progressive Christians and Muslims, but not secular Christians and Secular Muslims. those, like Irshad Manji, a lesbian, who claim to be Muslim, only do so because she lives, safely in America.
I guess you could call, atheist who put up a tree on Dec 25th, exchange presens and light their house, or like me, buys Easter Candy, and put out Easter baskets for my kids when they were young, secular Christians, but that is more like celebrating Thanksgiving, which I understand they even do in China.
Every ideology, and religion has an ideology, has a beginning and it starts with people asking questions about origins, and where they are going. Humans don't want to die, they want to live forever, and religion provides and answer for some.
The above and it is the oldest and most perfected tool of social control
Out of print by Word Controlled Humans by John Harlan is worth the read.
Lee--It may be a book of fiction, but the indigenous people think it's fact. That's the reality of the situation, now what we do to shed some honest light on the subject.
Honest light has been shed on the subject from it's outset and all that it has netted the light shedders is death and defamation.
There is the story in Exodus, where Moses comes down from the Mtn with the tale of a new religion and a new god. An idea, monotheism, that was picked up during the sojourn in Egypt from their knowledge of Akehnaton.
Monotheism is much superior to pantheism or polytheism, as you have only one priesthood, and one king.
The tribe rejected Moses sock puppet, laughed at him. Moses called his brother Aaron to his side and instructed him, that he was to gather his friends, and while the tribe slept to go through the tents and slit the throats of every other man. The tribe got the message and Moses and his sock puppet became the leader of the pack.
Donald: Some comment I made in the last 7 days, has disturbed Robert, Despite the fact that he has liked one of my comments, Maybe I'm too rigorous in defense of Israel, despite the fact that I am considered an anti Semite, because I am anti Zionist.
The reason I say this is because even though I am not banned, and can post,I do not get notifications of RR's articles, nor do I get notifications of replies to my comments.
The reason I saw this comment of yours is because I refresh the page
Lee--I to have thought, for a period of time, where I was in the previable doghouse also. But time healed things. I believe there are others that make decisions regarding what happens here.
I am sure that RR does not administer this site all on his on, it is a big job, Just take a look at the number of comments...hundreds daily.
Thom Hartmann has his own substack as well, but Thom doesn't ban people, nor restrict them, even obvious trolls. https://hartmannreport.com/
Thom has his own show on Free Speech TV as well as his own radio program. He is really good, lots of good info, not just opinion.
I have even supported RR when he was attacked, to no avail. I am quite vociferous and adamant in condemning and blaming HAMAS, and even the Zionists, maybe too effective. I sure pissed off someone, now I have to
I agree Netanyahu has failed, and I certainly wouldn't vote for him if I were an Israeli voter, but remember Israeli voters did elect him repeatedly over more than a decade. He had formed his extremist coalition before the most recent election, and they won 64 out of 120 Knesset seats. 61 seats are needed to form a government. Even before October 7, only about 35% of Israelis supported a Palestinian state. In a recent poll, 68% of Israelis supported blocking humanitarian aid to Gaza. News outlets in Israel don't show the full horror of what is happening in Gaza, because Israelis don't want to see it. I think we need to look beyond Netanyahu personally when dealing with this situation.
I, the eternal pessimist, don't believe a two state solution will ever stand, no more than Putin will allow Urkraine to stand, or any nation that is not Russian controlled on his border.
The Arabs will not allow it, Iran will never allow it. the obliteration of Israel is fundamental to the Iranian mullahcracy.
The esistence of Israel is the perfect foil for the corrupt Arab leadership that surrounds Israel. Then need a Jewish state, the existence of the state, enables the oppressed citizens of their countries to deflect attention.
Jews are the perfect scape goats, they are a minority,until Israel, one with a state, because they have been victimized and oppressed, they have become insular, and self productive, their survival had depended upon solidarity and communication, which gave them an advantage in commerce, intramural and internatiional.
Because they have been discriminated against, even hunted and oppressed their survival had depended upon secrecy and communication.
One learns to use whatever tools they have for survival.
Jews are not the heartless, blood sucking vampires of the Christian tropes, but people trying to survive in a heartless, blood sucking Christian world.
And it isn't just Christians but from the 7th Century Muslims as well.
Muslims will tell you that until the Zionists Muslims and Jews got along just fine.
And they did, so long as Jews accepted the status of dhimmis' (second class citizens) and paid the onerous jizzyah, poll tax.
The Quran, speaks of Peoples of the Book, meaning Bible, meaning Christians and Jews, they are accepted as being able to live in Muslim lands,but the haddiths require that they do so as second class citizens (dhimmi's) and pay the poll tax (jizyyah) in Iran that includes Zoroastrians, which makes sense because Christianityitself is a form of Zoroastrianism, introduced into it by "St" Augustine, who had been a priest of Mani, ( a Manichean), which is a Greek version of Zoroastrianism, like the Anglican church was a form of Catholicism.
There is no room or tolerance for polytheists like Hindu's or atheists like myself, we either convert, keep our mouths. shut, make pretense of conversion, which is OK with Islam as they know that male converts may not be Muslim in their hearts, but their children will be.
A Muslim male can marry a kaffir (Kufr, infidel) female, because the man will raise the kids as Muslims, however for a Kufr male to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert to Islam.
That is why, in the west, when you see a Muslim male, like Christiane Amanpour's father) marry a kufr woman (her mother is British), you can bet she was raised with Muslim sensiblities and loyalties as her identity, and it shows in her reporting.
Especially in the wake of the Gulf Wars, a lot of American and British soldiers married Muslim women, but they all had to convert to Islam, otherwise the woman would not marry them. Cognitive dissonance sets in, and the converts become rabid Muslims, even extremists. The most rabid of the faithful are converts, true across religions and other ideologies, because of cognitive dissonance, one's behavior flips to the extreme to convince not only others, but more importantly themselves.
There were a group of Jews in the Levant which found a way around the dhimmi-Jizzyah problem. They adopted Islam or aspects of it, but kept their traditions and they call themselves Druze.
He's still Prime Minister because of the way the Israeli parliament operates--the tail of extremist Orthodox Jews is wagging the dog. Much like Trump took advantage of our skewed electoral system, Netanyahu exploits the fractured parliamentary system of Israel to hang on to power. Notably, that weakness, where even a tiny party with less than 1% of the votes can direct policy because of the fragile coalitions that can get patched together, is precisely what happened to Germany in the 30s and allowed Hitler to rise.
Hmm, “1% of the votes can direct policy” sounds only too much like the US House right now, where Green - a majority of ONE - thinks she personally can dictate policy by holding a knife to Johnson’s throat.
I’ve been deeply critical of Bibi for over 20 years. That hasn’t changed. That said, it’s disingenuous and false to assert that the “only” reason Israel was attacked was Bibi. Is he partially to blame for his nationalistic policies? Sure. For the slowness of Israel’s response? Sure. (Although this is a matter of tactics the world over. It’s not so different from the police standing pat outside the school in Uvalde a year ago. I’m not defending or justifying, just saying this is how militaries and police are trained to respond, right or wrong.) Hamas bears significant responsibility as well, for their own brutality, and genocidal agenda.
It’s highly insulting to the Palestinians and Hamas to assert, as you are doing, that they have no agency, no choice. They are people, with everything that goes with it - an entitlement to our empathy AND our criticism when they, too, are in the wrong. In this case, Hamas attacked, not because of Bibi, but because of Hamas.
Cutting of Israel is punishing one victim (Israel) to help another (Palestinian civilians). On that score, it’s a choice, except for it also gives Hamas a free pass and veto for the future. It guarantees a future conflict that is far more brutal than this one.
I never said Hamas isn’t to blame. They are a terror organization and need to be stopped and destroyed immediately. That said, it’s wishful thinking to believe that this war will kill an ideology.
There are now over 100k casualties and over 35,000 dead; the majority women and children. Israel can’t act like a terrorist organization and kill indiscriminately, which is what they are doing.
And this aggression solves nothing and will only make any future peace agreement more unlikely to succeed; which I believe is Netanyahu’s goal.
So please don’t put words in my mouth. I was speaking from the standpoint of Netanyahu’s intransigence at this point. I never trusted the guy and believe his policies over the last decade have also contributed greatly to the overall situation Israel faces today.
Furthermore, did the war on terror kill Al Qaeda? No, it inspired an even more demonic organization we now call ISIS to formulate. And our war of folly in Iraq spread to Syria and Africa, with new terror groups like ISIS in Africa or ISIS in Chechnya.
For two decades Netanyahu has told us that Hamas is the greatest threat to Israel, yet he knew a year in advance of the plans and did nothing except everything one could do to make sure the attack caused maximum damage on Israel, including moving half the defense force stationed in Gaza to the West Bank and taking more than eight hours to respond.
This is why I believe Netanyahu and his right-wing cabal aren’t doing Israel’s long-term interests any good, and destroying our global reputation as well.
I agree, and I am pretty sure Netanyahu et al allowed the Hamas attack to give them the excuse to do what they have always wanted to do: Erase Palestinians from the equation. Israel has not only prevented aid from getting to Gaza, they have also achieved the dream of eliminating UN from the Gazans. Bibi has said that eliminating the Palestinians would not be possible as long as the UN was there to support them. That hateful bunch of Zionists is their own worst enemy.
I have also read that the reason Israel is allowing the beach ramps to be built is NOT to get aid to the Palestinians, but to have a way to get them out of Gaza without involving Egypt.
The Chris Hedges Report has been delving deeply into the truth about Israeli plans and motivation. He is not talking only to Palestinians, but mainly to Israelis who have personal experience and knowledge. I have had to stop/pause reading and listening to his episodes because I get too upset and my BP goes into the red zone.
That is the problem with the westerners. Too emotional. They get too emotionally involved with things that are thousands of miles away, all you need to do is show them pictures of dead, distressed children and crying woman, and you have them by their lymph nodes.
Take note there is no crying,wailing and ripping of clothing over Ukrainian children and women. Putin bombed schools and hospitals on purpose, but the Ukrainians did not flood the zone with images of dead, dismembered and dying babies and children.. their bad. Not being filth like HAMAS they don't exploit their people and their children.
You said “only.” That has a specific meaning. Maybe you really also criticize Hamas. I don’t know. But take a look at the world about you. It’s tribal and dishonest. Consider how often people on BOTH sides of the political spectrum deflect and say, “well, of course the other side is at fault” when asked why they criticize only one side.
I have the scars to show that I call both sides out when I think they are wrong, and I praise both sides when I think they are correct. I may be wrong, but I don’t shy away from the truth as I see it. And, I’m also open to admitting when I am wrong, as I understand it. To give a non-Israel example, I have always been a left-of-center moderate and anti-Trumper, and I donated to the Biden campaign for the first time in 2020. But I give the Trump administration credit for bringing industrial policy into the policy mix (I was on the wrong side of economic thinking on that) and for Operation Warp Speed. See? I despise Trump, for his lies, criminality, and cruelty, and I disagree with him on most policies, like his tax cuts or the wealthy, but I can still say he done good when he did.
Are you the same, or are you just deflecting? Please be honest with yourself, if not with me.
Many on this substack attack you if you allow for truth to be expressed in a variety of places. Perhaps both the equanimity in which you expressed this & presumed male voice, you are not yet attacked. These substacks become groupthink .
Fair enough, but when I said Netanyahu is responsible, it’s not that I do t think Hamas isn’t at fault, they are 100% at fault for the attack; they were conceived to destroy Israel, we know who they are and what they stand for.
That’s what separates Hamas from being a legitimate government. My intent was not to mitigate Hamas roll in this terror attack, I was assuming for the sake of this discussion, that it’s baked in. I was talking about Israel’s culpability for not doing enough to secure itself from such an attack.
Furthermore, Netanyahu has been telling us for the last 20 years that Hamas is the greatest threat to the homeland. Yet, he had the intelligence of an impending attack a year in advance, yet he moved more than half of Israel’s Gaza military deterrent to the West Bank months before.
He shut down Israel’s NSA (Unit 8200) monitoring Gaza communications months before, and couldn’t even send one military unit to the area for eight hours. Not to mention, allowing Qatar and the UAE to give billions to Hamas over the last several years.
So either Netanyahu is the most incompetent and dumbest SOB ever to live, or he allowed Hamas to inflict maximum damage, so he could conduct this war with extreme prejudice.
That’s my point, and I do agree with much of your sentiments and comments. Hope this clarifies my position and meaning.
If I goad you into throwing the first punch, and then you throw that punch and I in turn beat you into a pulp, who is the aggressor.
Before Sep 1, 1939 Poland would daily goad Hitler, threatening to be in Berlin in three days. Hiler didn't bite, there was the Tripartite pact between Poland, Britain and France.
Finally Hitler had three criminals dressed in Polish uniforms, shot them and had their bodies displayed near a radio station on the border, and used that as a pretext to invade Poland
Britain and France didn't buy the ruse.
Who was the aggressor,? Frederick the Great said that he who causes the other to attack is the aggressor.
Maybe if Poland had given up the Danzig corridor, which they call Gdansk, there might not have been a WWII.
According to Viktor Suvrov, in Icebreaker, it was Stalin who really started WWII, he had plans to invade Germany, and according to Han Rudel, in Stuka Pilot, when Operation Barabarosa opened, he flew over Soviet lines to bomb an airfield and below him were row after row of Medium bombers.
It is all history, it is past and full of what if's and should have's, nothing we can do about the past, it is spent money, tomorrow is a promissory note, today is cash, and we must spend it well, and well is not how we are spending it.
We are phucking up the future, because of what we believe about the past, and we haven't learned the lesson, that he who controls the past, controls the future, but some with the best propaganda machine do and know the lesson all too well, and who controls the propaganda machine, well it is he who controls or has the most money, and where is that money?, it is pumped out of the ground as black sludgy liquid.
35000 dead? Where are you getting your numbers? From Hamas’ Ministry of Health? These are the same people that claimed that 500 people were killed just minutes after a rocket hit a parking lot outside of a hospital in Gaza City - a rocket, which they claimed, was an Israeli bomb - only to suddenly go quiet when the truth came out that it was a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket that fell back to earth after being launched and that about 12 people were actually killed. Seriously? These are the people you accept at face value in terms of numbers? There have been analyses showing that the numbers of “civilian” deaths is seriously misleading: https://www.newsweek.com/more-accurate-accounting-war-gaza-opinion-1880784. According to that analysis the civilian to combatant death ration in Gaza is around 2:1 (2 civilians dead for each combatant). According to the UN, in almost every other conflict, civilians account for 90% of deaths - whereas here the IDF is keeping that number to around 60%.
Do you also realize that they also count their fighters as “civilian” (yes, Hamas fighters fight in civilian clothes contrary to the Geneva Convention - the video evidence is all over the place) casualties when they’re killed. So that inflates their numbers. Also Hamas’ numbers are dubious at best as this analysis shows: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers. The Hamas Ministry of Health claim that the majority of the deaths are women and children is statistically impossible given the makeup of Gaza’s population prior to the start of hostilities. Yet Western media laps it up and refuses to ask questions. Don’t forget that it took Israel a long time to come to an accurate casualty count of the victims of October 7th yet after every strike or engagement between the IDF and Hamas, the Hamas Ministry of Health is able to come up with “accurate” numbers in a matter of hours. Does that not raise any questions in the Western media? Nope - not a bit. They accept it at face value - which they have done since the start of the war and they question and downplay Israel’s reports of its numbers as well as reports of rape and sexual violence against Israeli women (yeah…”Me too…unless you’re a Jew”).
As for Palestinian casualties - the evidence is all over YouTube of examples of what’s called “Pallywood” where they stage “victims” of an “attack” - all with fake blood and fake wounds and dead bodies - film it and then send it out on the Internet for gullible, willing audiences to see and accept at face value (even when a dead body suddenly moves or scratches an itch).
Israel is NOT acting like a terrorist organization - it’s fighting an enemy that a) does not care one iota of the number of Palestinian dead (in fact, they would prefer that there be MORE dead Palestinians because then the outrage in the West would be greater and Hamas is counting on that), b) refuses to fight according to the Laws of War that Israel is being required to follow, and c) could end the conflict TOMORROW if they surrendered AND released all of the remaining hostages (at least 1/4 of which are believed to be dead).
That the Biden administration is now considering stopping arms shipments to Israel as their way to show their determination to prevent Israel from actually winning this war is telling. By not vetoing the UNSC resolution yesterday they open the possibility that the UNSC will pass another resolution applying sanctions on Israel which America would then have consider honoring. They have pretty much given Hamas a victory. Perhaps while they’re at it they should get the UNSC to pass a resolution calling on Israel to surrender to Hamas, withdraw from Gaza and, while they’re at it, call for Israel to pay reparations to the Palestinians for the damage.
As for peace…in order to have peace you have to have two parties who want it. Netanyahu certainly doesn’t (nor does his buddies Smotrich and Ben-Gvir). But it also requires a partner ON THE OTHER SIDE and experience has shown that the Palestinians DO NOT want peace. If you think they do, you’re deluding yourself. I’m not arguing that Israel hasn’t made missteps - but to the Palestinians haven’t made an honest effort towards peace since at least 2000. It was Arafat’s plan to just keep the terror going - even while talking about peace. The Palestinians are the peace partner who hold out their right hand in peace while holding a knife in their left hand behind their back waiting for the opportunity to plunge it into the back of the Israelis.
That people accept without question, the HAMAS claims is evidence of laziness, bias and/or lack of critical thinking. You nailed it with your example of the failed Islamic Jihad rocket launch, being claimed to be an Israeli Bomb, which would have left a huge crater and demolished the hospital.
But the sensational speaking press, even the UN were all to glad to let it pass, and let it slide into sink hole.
Even Martin Griffiths Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator at the United Nations., quotes HAMAS lies,and when Christiane Amanpour was prodded to ask him why he believed the figures, because she also quotes HAMAS as gospel, his reply was "they were triangulated" what ever that means. Triangulated with what HAMAS, Al Jazeera, the Arab press.
“That the Biden administration is now considering stopping arms shipments to Israel as their way to show their determination to prevent Israel from actually winning this war is telling.”—Ido Dunrawsky
I won’t argue the death count, but whether it’s 30k or 20k, it’s still a humanitarian crisis. And there are 70k wounded. So there are 100k casualties overall, give or take a few thousand.
That said, are you suggesting people aren’t starving throughout Gaza? That everything is great for the people there? That Israel’s policies over the last two decades have not been draconian?
How large is Hamas? Israel (not using Hamas’s figures) says they have 30k fighters and bureaucrats, so the casualties rate is still staggering.
And seriously, you are suggesting that America doesn’t want Israel to win? What is winning in Netanyahu’s obtuse head? It’s Destroying all of Hamas, correct?
Please genius, tell how he can destroy an idea? It’s an ideology borne from the Muslim Brotherhood and will not die when every fighter is killed; not that you could possibly kill every one of them. It will evolve into a more violent force. We thought Al Qaeda current be any worse, until ISIS emerged because Bin Laden wasn’t evil enough.
Clearly, you haven’t studied Iraq or Afghanistan. Went killed close to a million so called terrorists and Al Qaeda is still around. In fact, we created more terrorists than we killed. Now you ISIS and Al Qaeda in Syria, Afghanistan, Africa and Eastern Europe. The countries continue to grow.
And let’s look at history as a guide. Netanyahu has been telling us for two decades that Hamas is the greatest threat to Israel, yet when they had the intelligence for a year, they ignored it. It took Israel eight hours to deploy a single military unit to the border. And now we find out that Netanyahu allowed Qatar and the UAE to fund Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars.
So please tell me what winning looks like, because if history is an indicator of future success, there is no victory here; just pain and destruction that will beget more pain and destruction.
And in the end, even should you get Hamas, the next terror group to emerge will be far worse.
Just ask anyone who lived in the 70’s and 80’s with the PLO. They aren’t committing terror acts anymore, but Hamas and Islamic Jihad have taken their place in history. When Hamas is gone, Israel will be dealing with an even graver threat, unless it changes course and engages with the Palestinian Authority.
The PA may be corrupt, but so is Netanyahu and his right-wing government of religious zealots.
Netanyahu has given us every excuse in the book, and has continued to play lip service for a two state solution that he would never agree too (he’s a liar). And his true goal; “expelling half of the West Bank Palestinian’s into Jordan, and half of Gaza’s Palestinians into Egypt.”
And these are the words of two of his cabinet members, not me.
Is Netanyahu a dirtbag? Sure…I certainly think he is. Netanyahu allowed Qatar to fund Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars because he thought he was “buying them off” - i.e., buying peace and quiet. Is Netanyahu corrupt? Absolutely. And his buddies Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are right there alongside him. But before you put all of this on Netanyahu and his cronies and pour all of your vitriol into one bucket and think that the Palestinians are not also the authors of their own misery, you need to take another look. You put the blame solely on one side and refuse to hold the other accountable in the least.
Was October 7 an utter intelligence failure - absolutely. Netanyahu is ultimately responsible for the Charlie-Foxtrot that was October 7 - he and his political cronies as well as folks within the IDF. I don’t deny that. Netanyahu is a relic and as he’s gotten older he’s become more ossified in his thinking and more intransigent in his philosophy. But Hamas is also just as responsible for the situation we have today as Netanyahu - actually more so. They could have used those billions of dollars to better the lives of Palestinians - they could have made Gaza into the Singapore of the Mediterranean but instead were as corrupt as their PA counterparts
Sure, you can’t defeat an ideology - certainly not without giving its adherents something more worthwhile to aim for. Netanyahu may have (I don’t know since I certainly wasn’t inside his head thankfully) been thinking that buying off Hamas would incentivize them to actually govern the Gaza Strip and make life better for the Palestinians there. Again, I don’t know but that certainly seems the logical idea. What he didn’t factor in was that Hamas adheres to Islamist ideology and no amount of “buying off” would dissuade them from their murderous intent.
As for the PLO not committing terror acts? Who do you think Fatah is? Fatah is the biggest faction of the PLO - they’re still around - they’re just not using the PLO moniker anymore. They’ve changed their name to the PA - but they’re still the same group. They’ve just cleaned up their act a bit to make themselves more palatable to Western eyes but make not mistake, they’re the same folks and the same ideology as Hamas.
And before you simply put the blame solely on Netanyahu and the Israelis for the failure of peace in this conflict let’s be clear about something. Previous Israeli governments offered the Palestinians what they wanted (think Ehud Barak with the Camp David/Wye River accords and Ehud Olmert and his offer) and they still said NO. How do you make peace when you offer the other side what they want and they still reject it? The PA has shown that they’re not serious about actually ending the conflict - and why should they? The PA bigwigs are making billions of dollars off of it and keeping this festering wound visible. Their strategy is to keep it this way and rely on the Western world’s pearl clutching to force Israel to yield to their demands and ultimately destroy Israel.
I had a Ph.D. advisor in the ‘90s during the early days of Oslo that argued that if the Palestinians had enough skin in the game and had a burgeoning economy they would not risk war because they would realize that they stood to lose too much. What his western thinking couldn’t grasp was that the Palestinians are playing a very long game and they’re not driven by the same motivations that western societies have. Like the Jews, they have very long memories and their aim is not to live side-by-side with the Israelis. For the Arab mindset, that’s just a step along the path to eventually destroying Israel and killing all of the Jews within it.
Yes, Robert it is a Humanitarian Crisis, but one of HAMAS making and one that HAMAS could stop at any moment. Why isn't the spotlight and blame put on HAMAS?
Are people lazy thinkers,lack critical reasoning skils, are just Jew Haters. Muslims are.
I've seen peace loving Jews on TV being interviewed alongside Muslims.
And you can see the Muslims smirking., the most blatant example was on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
Lee, Hamas is a terror organization whose charter is for the destruction of Israel, so we agree.
And yet, Netanyahu has played right into their hands. Democratic governments that purport to believe that all life is sacred, can’t not operate from the same set of principles as Hamas. Otherwise, we are no different. And killing innocents doesn’t solve the problem.
Personally, I have no problem killing every last one of these terrorists (Hamas); however, that wouldn’t be the best solution to the problem if it means killing thousands of innocents in the process.
What is Netanyahu’s end game? He says it’s the total annihilation of Hamas? Seriously? How’d that work out for America in Iraq and Afghanistan? Last I checked, both ISIS, the Taliban and Al Qaeda have more adherents than before the wars began, and didn’t we kill almost all of them, according to our military? Clearly not!
That said, I’m expressing a difference in strategy and approaches. Netanyahu’s way is the worst way to confront Hamas. And if history in Israel is an indicator of future outcomes, it hasn’t work out that well for them in the past either.
Every single time Hamas attacks, we end up in the same place, with each event more deadlier and violent. Perhaps a different approach should be considered.
Netanyahu has deliberately kept the PA weak, and has helped fuel Hamas rise; even allowing Qatar and the UAE to give them billions over the years. This is the problem.
And please don’t paint a broad brush when it comes to the feelings of Jews and Muslims regarding this conflict. It’s difficult for all parties, especially if you have family in the region, or have loved ones who have been killed or wounded.
There are peace loving people on both sides of this conflict, as well as cynical charlatans. It’s the way of the world…:)
Thinking that the current Netanyahu “strategy” in Gaza is the ONLY option, and claiming that objecting to and resisting it is the same as abandoning Israel, is the precise problem. It is NOT the only option, which is the point of many on this thread.
And OTHER actors in the region — Arab countries who are working in ongoing behind-the-scenes negotiations — are also a huge part of the solution. HAMAS needs to be destroyed, as a cancer needs to be destroyed. But, I think the world disagrees that the only way to do that is to wholesale blow up Palestinian civilians in Gaza.
Pat: I thought that I posted this before, but can't find it
So here goes again.
Step aside from the emotions that color the discussion, be they loyalty to one side or the other, or just bleeding heart emotions. They cloud the judgement
Why doesn't Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia want Gazan's and West Bank people in their country?Why is Egypt buillding a wall? Why does Jordan and Saudi Arabia arrest migrants and return them?
The answer is because the existence of the state of Israel serves as a distraction for the rulers. Hatred of the Jews is a unifying factor in Islam (I've quoted references before but it is quite obvious)
So long as the State of Israel, a Jewish state, exists and there are Muslims who the leaders of this countries can point to, and this goes for Iran as well, maybe especially since it is official doctrine that Iran is at war with Israel. Then the Arab states that surround Israel have a foll.
Nothing is more unifying than a common enemy, especially one that threatens and is killing members of your tribe (Arab Muslims), and as regards the world wide community of Muslims, the Ummah, even more so.
Almost half of the world's population is Muslim, and they are united in one thing, defense of Islam and that means Muslims.
You can not say the same about Christians and Jews.
Muslims will war with each other over doctrine, leadership, orthodoxy.
There is 1400 year old hostility between Sunni and Shia, and it gets bloody.
ISIS-K is an example. Khorosan is the ancient name for that territory that now comprises Iran, much of Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan
It is split between Shia and Sunni Islam.
ISIS-K is from that region and it is Sunni, it is at war with Iran and has created acts of war with Iran which is Shia.
Iraq is predomiinantly Shia and ISIS invaded and occupied the northern part of Iraq, and withdrew into Syrian, which is also ruled by a Shia elite (Assad is Alawite which is a Shia sect, Shia Islam is more liberal than Saudi Arabia, which is Wahabi Sunni)
Russia has supported the Asad regime, and thus has attacked and murdered Muslims, and squeezed out ISIS, meanwhile Russian planes have been killing the Sunni ISIS fighters.
In retaliation ISIS-K has attacked Russia. We have here Sunni Muslims committing acts of terror against a country that has been supporting a Shia Muslim run country.
When Muslims are attacked they forget their internecine doctrine and power struggles and go against a common enemy, but when it settles down they are back to their old business of an internal power struggle for the heart and mind of Islam.
Bear that in mind, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia need the existence of the state of Israel..just as American and Russia could use an alien invasion of Earth.
With respect, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria are different nations with varying histories. Egypt fears the descendants of the Muslim Brotherhood, which are an internal threat to this day. Jordan already has more than a million Palestinians within its borders, and fears that an additional large influx might destabilize its government. They have substantial history to support that fear. Syria is a divided nation that does not control all of its nominal territory (some of that thanks to the US). Lebanon is basically a client state of Iran, with a government so divided along ideological and religious lines as to be almost completely ineffective. Hezbollah, the Maronite Christians, the Druze, and other groups dominate local fiefdoms. Several of the groups are beholden to Iran for support.
You just ignored all of the recent detente between Israel and its neighbors, Lee.
All the talk of Sunni and Shia, yeah … when a religion’s founder dies, the followers fragment around new “leaders” and start hating each other. Big surprise.
Islam fragmented.
And there’s a LOT of antagonism. Macho guys, them Sunni and Shia …
But all the talk up there about which country is Sunni and which is Shia, and who is Wahabi, and who aligns with whom — Yeah, so?
Iran is said to be a MAJOR supporter of Hamas.
Iran is Persian and Shia.
Hamas is Arab and Sunni.
I’m getting lost in the weeds here about who is fighting with whom, and why you brought up an etravagant explanation of their internecine antagonisms, if you are trying to say that being anti-Israel is what unites them.
… and BTW, Mr. Markland, I am NEVER going to apologize for a sense of basic human decency entering into consideration for how human beings SHOULD deal with each other.
You think a sense of decency clouds judgment? [You called it “bleeding heart emotions,” but that’s attack language that doesn’t carry water for decent people. Those of us who keep our humanity intact, and our awareness of the humanity of all caught up in the issue, call it decency. I think an absence of it negates anything approaching judgment. ]
This war I feel Is a gift to Putin on his birthday October 7 pioneered by himself (Putin),Trump ,Iran and Netanyahu himself, it benefits each of those narcissistic evil personalities . We should’ve long ago ( even before 10/7 ) stopped giving Israel money and now for sure we should stop giving them money, missiles and expensive fighter jets. True it makes us look like we’ve got blood on our hands but it’s going to look that way no matter what we do at this Point. In in short Israel Netanyahu Needs this word to continue to keep himself out of jail and to help get Trump back in office so they can push their agenda.
Oh good! I guess I'm NOT the only one who thinks this way. Netanyahu is SIGNIFICANTLY more evil and criminal than Fidel Castro EVER was, but we spent BILLIONS only trying to bring down the LATER?!?
Castro actually seemed to care about his citizenry. It is quite clear that Netanyahoo sees his citizenry as DISPOSABLE BODIES! [sic]
Agreed, it appears he, and his right-wing cohorts definitely believe secular Jews are disposable; me being one, and those slaughtered on the kibbutz’s on October 7th…:)
Robert, I can't help but wonder why Israeli intelligence didn't know what was going to happen and work to stop it. I keep thinking that Netanyahu wanted this to happen so he could destroy Gaza and maybe Hamas along with it. The settlers are clamoring for more land and . . . I believe that is exactly what Putin did related to the attack on the theatre near Moscow. The US had given Russian Intelligence information about a possible attack by ISIS. He wanted to blame it on Ukraine, as he did, and a bunch of Russian bodies are OK if he can get the propaganda to say Ukraine did it. It is a bit harder now that the word is out in some places at least that ISIS was the culprit. Putey is still claiming Ukraine. It appears the two men are working from the same playbook. Neither should ever be in charge of anything, but it seems sometimes voters are nuts or voter fraud in those countries is really powerful, probably a bit of both!
Makes you wonder, doesn't it? The similarity to America's 9/11 and Bush's ignoring the "Bin Laden determined to strike America" warnings. Both events provide their national leaders a "casus belli" that couldn't be overlooked.
Netanyahu is still Prime Minister of Israel, for the same unfathomable reasons that Putin is still president of Russia and Trump remains out of prison: pure crafty cussedness, teams of compliant lawyers, and politicians terrified for their own careers and the safety of their families. It's a war within a war, on a global scale. denying Israel, additional weaponry is only putting a Band-Aid deep and grievous wound. It may help in the short run, but will only exacerbate the duality of evil in these sorry excuses for human beings. Such men have always existed with different names and costumes. the question remains, how do you purge the world of the monsters?
Netanyahu is trying to make up for his mistake. He like trump belongs in prison. Crazy right-wingers are making the world horrible. From our dysfunctional House letting Ukranie die, backing the nut job tfg, not funding the government, etc. Lord save us from these extremists!
You don't understand or know of the history of Israel and Hamas. Hamas wants NOTHING BUT the absolute destruction of Israel and EVERY Jew on the planet! Hamas didn't attack because of "Netanyahu and his “right-wing” regime."" They did it for the pure joy of killing, torturing, terrorizing, kidnapping, maiming and raping of Israeli Jews. They had no idea that Israel would react as they did because the rest of the world ALWAYS comes down against Israel for defending itself. The Palestinian people elected Hamas to rule. Now they can do nothing about getting them out. Israel MUST completely destroy and eradicate Hamas. Hamas has said they will CONTINUE attacking Israel in this matter. Do you support that? Do you support Israel protecting itself?
Actually I do know the history of Israel and Palestine, having lived and studied in Israel, and visited several of its neighbors over the years.
And I didn’t say Hamas isn’t a terrorist organization. They were born as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which was responsible for Sadat’s death after the Egypt/Israel peace Accords. They are brutal and vicious and I haven’t implied differently. In fact, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Bin Laden’s number two during 9/11 was one of the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood before he became second in command of Al Qaeda. He was arrested and jailed for Sadat’s assassination.
So I don’t blame Netanyahu for the attack, I blame Netanyahu for his draconian treatment of the Palestinians and his continued building of settlements in the West Bank.
Additionally, I blame Netanyahu for the response, or lack there of on the day of the attack (eight hours), in which Hamas was able to inflict maximum harm and take hundreds of prisoners. This could have been avoided.
So please stop with your simplistic understanding of the conflicts. This isn’t about whether Hamas should be eradicated from the face of the earth. It’s the fact that an ideology can never be eliminated, but it can be controlled when reasonable heads prevail, and we have leadership on both sides willing to negotiate.
We can’t negotiate with Hamas, but we can negotiate with the PA, and pretty much every Sunni gulf state, as well as Egypt and Jordan to work together in order to starve the beast.
However, it only works when the Israeli government isn’t trying to annex the West Bank, and deport half the population in Gaza and the West Bank to Egypt and Jordan. This is the plan of the current Israeli government.
And they aren’t my words, they’re the words two of his right-wing cabinet members who have stated as much, and as recently as a month ago.
Well stated. We live by headlines and memes and platitudes. Not understanding the larger issues. Netanyahu bears responsibility for neglect and arrogance. He is the worst PM in Israeli history. They know that. This wholesale destruction of Gaza is bad military strategy. And bad PR for Israel.
You wrote, "the only reason Israel was attacked is because of Netanyahu and his “right-wing” regime." So, it appears that you blame Netanyahu for the attack. Israel has been attacked ever since it was established as a state and NOTHING israel has done has stopped it. The fact that Hamas PROMISES to do it again and again, their words, not mine, means the only way to stop the attacks is to eradicate Hamas. They sure won't go peacefully. What's your solution? One course of action is to stop sending money to UNRWA, the branch of the UN that IS Hamas. How else do we starve the beast but support the Palestinians? They steal the measly aid that's getting through and most of the humanitarian aid money sent to the Palestinians to enrich their top leaders and build tunnels. Without forcibly destroying Hamas and helping to set up a new representative government, NOTHING will change, even with negotiation with everyone else as you propose.
I didn’t say “the only reason they were attacked,” I said I blame Israel. There is a distinction with a difference.
And destroying an ideal is a fools errand. These people don’t wear uniforms. The best way in my humble opinion is getting everyone else with the program to give Hamas no quarter or money. And any country that helps Hamas will be a global pariah subject to the most draconian sanctions.
Qatar and the UAE will stop funding Hamas if directed. They even asked Israel whether they should stop sending funds and Netanyahu told them to continue.
Israel’s current solution is not a solution. It only guarantees more violence down the road.
It's VERY easy to see what you wrote. You were the first commenter. You wrote:
Ironically, the only reason Israel was attacked is because of Netanyahu and his “right-wing” regime. They ignored the intelligence, moved more than half their troops from Gaza to the West Bank months before the attack, and took over eight hours to dispatch a military force to counter Hamas’s rampage.
You may have thought you wrote differently, but go look what you wrote. I copied/pasted from exactly what you wrote!
I didn’t mean to imply that any country can completely protect themselves from terrorists; both foreign and domestic.
In this case, the intelligence was there and it was confirmed by both Jordan and Egypt as to the date: October 7th, the anniversary of the Yom Kippur War; the last time Israel ignored its intelligence services and almost lost the nation.
You would think that if Netanyahu was a serious leader, he wouldn’t had dismissed the warnings so precipitously….:)
if president biden is as serious as he claims to be about fighting the existential threat to democracy in the united states, he must capitulate to the fact that the majority of americans are in favor of demanding a ceasefire ... he must contend with the blatant hypocrisy of trying to send humanitarian aid into gaza, while also supplying israel with the bombs and weapons that have killed tens of thousands of innocent palestinians ... he must also contend with the blatant hypocrisy of denouncing the atrocious war crimes committed by russia in the ukraine, while not condemning the same or similar war crimes that israel continues to commit in gaza ... joe biden must realize that the united states' ongoing support of a genocidal war by an authoritarian leader of a far-right political party can hand the 2024 election to the dictator that he so boldly claims he needs to defeat in order to preserve american democracy ...
Once again, Biden has shown tremendous leadership in providing exactly the amount of pressure he could on an American ally, and suffered further erosion of support from both sides, to the point where it is likely he will be defeated in November, and it would not surprise me to learn that Putin played a role in the timing of the Hamas attack with that goal.
Unlike the armchair generals of the press and the opposition, actually governing is not an easy thing, and Biden has actually been providing the leadership that America has needed, but he has not crowed about it. And right now we need a leader who can, as the alternative of Trump will not just mean the end of Democracy in the world, it will mean the end of human civilization as the effects of global climate change accelerate. This case, including regarding the success of Russian meddling in American affairs via social media must be laid out at the Democratic Convention, and some kind of telephone polling system needs to be created to select a leader capable of picking up the torch.
i totally agree ... i also find it confounding that no one that i have seen or read in the mainstream media is drawing the connection between 7 october and russia (not to suggest that russia had a direct role or responsibility in the attack, rather to suggest that after 7 october the tides really began to turn in the russian war on ukraine; 7 october definitely has helped putin -- certainly by drawing even more attention away from ukraine since it happened) ...
as per leadership, thank heavens joe biden has been president during these major geopolitical catastrophes versus his predecessor -- i don't think any of us would want to try to imagine what the state of the world would be had the u.s. not fairly & freely elected biden & inaugurated him into power ... also, obviously there is soooooo much happening behind the scenes that we will never know ...
with all of that said, though, joe biden does understand what it actually involves to be the president of the united states ... i think that he would say (& even has said) that the buck stops with him ... if he really wants to win the 2024 election for the reasons he is campaigning on (primarily, the fact that we are perilously close to losing our democracy, which we very much are), then he must listen to the people and do the very hard job of being the president and finally stop supporting this genocidal war in every way ...
As a very interested Brit I can only agree with you both. From my perspective. Biden’s experience and the first class team that he has are the best chance we have of surviving the next year. Trump only encouraged Netanyahu to be so aggressive.
i agree 100% Professor Reich! America's support of israel by sending it an almost unlimited supply of arms is feeding the growth and maintenance of this IMmoral monster. i don't have any easy answers (i assume easy answers for controlling israel's insatiable bloodthirst have already been tried, or suggested at least) but i do think that america should stop sending offensive arms to israel, at least until they stop their genocide -- and instead direct them all to ukraine!
NOTE: edited to remove evidence of a pre-coffee brain fart inspired typo.
You meant immoral, not amoral right? A baby or nature is amoral; they don’t know what destruction they are causing, versus Netanyahu, who is an immoral, corrupt kleptocrat…:)
True, it’s also being oblivious to the damage it causes.
Remember, morality is man made, and different for every society. So being amoral is being unconcerned only because it’s unknown to the being (ie nature, a baby); they don’t know the difference…:)
According to Oxford, amoral is lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something.
A baby is amoral because it lacks a moral sense, which is exactly my point. Nature is amoral because it does not know the destruction it causes. Nature and a baby ate oblivious to morality which is man made and different in most societies.
Would we chop off the hand of a person who steals a loaf of bread? No, it’s immoral in America? but perfectly moral in Saudi Arabia since it’s the law. Morals change over time.
So stick to your definition which is not the full context of the meaning.
I believe Biden fears AIPAC....and I understand that Israel would be unable to attack in 7 days if U.S. stopped shipments. Why not stop shipments? MAGAts can't criticize him....so what's the problem Mr. Biden??
Today’s image of a boy emerging from a destroyed building with his eyes staring out and his hands seemingly grasping for answers with destruction all around could have been taken decades ago up to the present. It is always amazing how war images stand out and grab the beholder's eye. It was hard to look at because of the emotion it brings out after reading today’s letter. GirlScientist, many would agree that since October 7th, answers to stop the war have fallen on deaf ears. On the Ukraine comment, perhaps someone is listening. All war is abhorrent. If support from the US were to stop, would Netanyahu and Israel run out of bombs and the war stop? Some of us with no stomach for what is happening, wonder if the price Israel is paying in damage to itself as a State and society is too much. If the Israeli people and the President are adamant that they must crush Hamas at all costs, then bombs or no bombs, friendship, or no friendship with the US, why don’t those who are willing, perhaps the President as well, do a house-to-house assault and rout the militants. It seems to many that even without US backing, if Israel wants what news reports say it does, it has enough soldiers and other armaments to engage the remaining combatant battalions below and above ground. The cost of human life since October is staggering; War sucks, everyone agrees. Combatants fight against combatants in wars, and the collateral damage to innocent civilians has always been there. It’s anyone’s guess as to how a victor will emerge once the war stops and how what has happened has served the Common Good.
For the time being, stop sending all those munitions to Israel. Instead, send them to Ukraine. Putin's maga-hat communists in the US will object (scream bloody murder) but there is probably a way to do this. For example, send the weapons to our NATO allies in Europe (before Dump's maga-heads destroy NATO to make Putin happy and give rise to a Dump Tower next to Lenin's Tomb in Moscow). The NATO allies can then keep those weapons, and ship their own weapons across to Ukraine as a kind of shell game. Meanwhile, let's hope the Israelis remove Naziyahoo from office and put in a civilized leader who will guide the region to a peaceful two-state solution (maybe under UN mandate). Finally, make all Hitler mustaches illegal in Israel/Gaza for the next thousand years.
Until the extremists in the House of Representatives stop blocking bills to continue to fund and assist the Ukraine, it is impossible to give them the support they need to defeat the Russian aggressors. And if Putin succeeds, his next target will be Moldova, and then another territory or country. This message must be repeated endlessly to the American people. Nobody is safe from Putin’s imperial aims. Nobody!
Thanks, Jude. I understand your meaning but please note that my suggestion offered a possible way around the House extremists. It is rather clear that these people hate the United States and can't wait to "secede" (destroy the USA; lose their minds completely, if they ever had any minds). Yes, Putin will continue his mass murder streak unless we stop him (without a nuclear war). JTC
Attached find a program I attended via zoom last week. Forgotten Democrats' National Chairman Fred Wellman was joined by independent journalist Martin Kuz, who covers the war in Ukraine at https://martinkuz.substack.com/
You should send this excellent article to the New York Times as an Opinion Piece. Like Todd, I wish President Biden had withdrawn his support for Netanyahu long before this, and I hope he will take this opportunity albeit late in the day to make the right choice. However Todd, please don't abandon President Biden and the Democratic Party because of Gaza. A Trump administration would be so very much worse for both the U.S. and the world. The Democratic Party and President Biden himself, though imperfect, have done heroic and stellar work for the American people these past 3+ years, putting the economy back on track after years of "trickle-down economics" and strengthening the labor movement and other progressive forces in our country. Trump and the leadership of the increasingly MAGA-dominated Republican party have no interest in public service, problem-solving or even in telling the truth. They seek only to manipulate public opinion and tear down or capitalize upon what others have painstakingly built to enhance their own power, status and wealth. They are thoroughly corrupt and need to be soundly defeated.
"Israel is one of America’s closest allies." Nonsense. They've been selling weapons to Russia to use against Ukraine; their Prime Minister has repeatedly tried to interfere in US politics on behalf of the GQP, and they have several times acted against US interests in the Middle East and only been forced to stop by various US Presidents (Democrats and Republicans) threatening to withhold military aid. It's time Biden joined those Presidents.
As for Gaza, if Hamas is in the tunnels below ground, why is the IDF constantly bombing above ground? They have known about the tunnels for years. Why haven't they been preparing to fight a war in the tunnels? They have robots, sniffer dogs, and other means to make entering the tunnels safer, so why not use them to take the battle to the enemy?
I can think of only 2 reasons:
1. They are trying to fight the battle without endangering IDF soldiers while making it look like they are accomplishing something--at the cost of over 32,000 Palestinian lives.
2. They really want to expand Eretz Israel and drive all Palestinians out of its expanded borders.
Maybe both.
If they really want to end the war, why not return the illegally Occupied Territories to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria and let them deal with the founding of the Palestinian state?
Maureen, back in the olden days, the Palestinians were urged to leave the new state of Israel and flee to the surrounding Arab countries where they were put in refugee camps for decades. At the same time all 5 surrounding states attacked the new UN created Israel. Today not one of those Arab states wants one Palestinian and have closed their borders. They all have Isis like extremists and they don’t want any more disaffected people. There is an awful lot of blame and distrust to go around here but it is counter productive.
You neglected to mention that the "new state of Israel" did not include the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and Gaza and that the the Palestinians were "urged" to the leave the "new state of Israel" at gun point.
Legally, the Golan Heights belong to Syria, the West Bank to Jordan, and Gaza to Egypt. If Israel does not want the Palestinians in the illegally Occupied Territories, they can return the territories to their legal owners, who can decide whether they want their land back, Palestinians and all, or not. Of course, they don't want just the Palestinians without the land, but with the land could be quite a different matter.
And, of course, if they don't want the land or the Palestinians, they could just give the land back to the Palestinians as the basis for the state of Palestine as the British and the UN originally intended.
You are right of course but the 7 Day War, the UN Declaration and the Balfour Declaration are dim memories on the world scene today. We have to deal with the reality that Israel will not retreat from it’s current boundaries and is pretty much intent on destroying Gaza and the surrounding Arab states are in no shape to take in refugees especially since so many refugees would be Muslim extremists and they already have their own extremists groups. Plus the Hamas leaders live in the Emirates. It is such a tangled web.
We did not get dragged into war in 1940. The Japanese attacked the fleet in Pearl Harbor on Dec.7, 1941 - the Day of Infamy. Sort of like the Hamas attack on Oct, 7, 2023 or the Twin Towers on Sept. 11, 2000. International Law, like the Cease Fire Resolution in Gaza, is already on the rocks because of the signatories.
It is absolutely imperative that the US be perfectly clear that America stands fully in support of the Israeli people, but that our Government, cannot stand in support of the Israeli Government’s openly and unabashedly slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians, men, women, and children! A slaughter that is happening both with weapons of war and the inhumane result of war in the form of starvation and deprivation of the necessities of life! We in America are a better people than that!
Israel is one of the richest countries and has an overwhelming number of millionaires. And if Israel is running out of military supplies, to me, it's from poor planning. I don't understand why (other than fattening our military industry) we're supplying money and military supplies to Israel. This "war" is doing nothing for Israelis and is instead helping to grow more future Hamas fighters who will be even more determined to "destroy" Israel.
U.S weapon shipments and $3.8 billion annual funding to Apartheid Israel should have ended a long time ago. Israel is a racist nation that has treated Palestinians in Occupied Territories brutally for decades now and treated its Palestinian citizens (20% of Israel) as 3rd class citizens.
Not only could Biden stop sending Israel arms and aid (which implicates the US in genocide) but it could demand that Israel withdraw, and position US troops along the Gaza-Israel border to ensure aid gets in and ensure the genocidal IDF don’t return under the orders of their quasi-fascist government (a peacekeeping force could also be sent to the West Bank to ensure Israel halts all abuses and ceases its continual theft of Palestinian land). Britain and others could assist in this peacekeeping force.
This has been done before in various countries and conflicts e.g. in Kosovo, where the the NATO-led peacekeeping force KFOR still operates, in response to the Yugoslav wars and the threat of ongoing genocide, humanitarian disaster and displacement of a million people. It would arguably cost less to do this than send arms to assist Israel in massacring Palestinians.
Only in technical publications is there ever any mention of the enablers of the war; Hamas leaders in Qatar, Hezbollah leaders, Iranian supporters, Saudi enablers, Yemeni and Houthi leaders, and U.S. war hawks. I suppose there are a dozen PhD theses in progress on this topic. We, the general public are mostly in the dark.
"Many Americans believe Israel must do everything in its power to eliminate Hamas."
If you kill every last Palestinian civilian in Gaza, Hamas will survive, and will probably be strengthened. Netanyahu is a racist, and the worst friend Israel ever had. He has lied to the Israeli people, and to the world, for the last 20 years. He has to go.
America, UK, France, most EU countries and Australia are all enablers of the apartheid regime in Israel and the ongoing genocide. The list is far from complete. But especially US carries a heavy responsibility. Change restrict to stop weapons and munitions to Israel.
I wish more readers were willing to offer affirmative actions.
The carping and name-calling and rehashing of 1948 and 1967 are not helpful at all.
I would add another, fourth, act: Deliver humanitarian aid directly to Gaza by massive sealift right to the beach. Encourage American and other national civilians to participate in the distribution under Red Crescent management on the ground.
Four weeks ago I sent the President a postcard urging him to stop sending arms to Israel as otherwise we are complicit. I said Netanyahu was off the rails. I further explained the request was not made lightly as my children are half Jewish.
“Netanyahu says he intends to press ahead with the attack nevertheless. "We'll go there. We're not going to leave them. You know, I have a red line. You know what the red line is? That October 7 doesn't happen again. Never happens again." —Netanyahu
Ironically, the only reason Israel was attacked is because of Netanyahu and his “right-wing” regime. They ignored the intelligence, moved more than half their troops from Gaza to the West Bank months before the attack, and took over eight hours to dispatch a military force to counter Hamas’s rampage.
The only question we should be asking ourselves is how is this guy still Prime Minister? And I agree, we should cut off all offensive military aid to Israel.
Netanyahu believes we are the United States of Israel, instead of America. It’s time we cutoff the spigot, and let Netanyahu fend for himself until the Israeli citizenry rises up, and gets rid of him and his right-wing cabal of crazies for good.
We aren’t doing Israel or ourselves any good by supporting the status quo and Netanyahu’s dystopian vision for the Palestinian people’s future.
When Netanyahu tells us it’s his job to make sure this never happens again; I disagree, it was his job to make sure this never happened in the first place. And from that perspective, he failed miserably!
The mess in the Middle East really has no solution as things currently stand. It's a three-ring circus with more ring master's than you can shake a stick at, a love triangle of hate driven by the thrust for innocent blood. If we stop military aid to the Israeli effort the British would have to make a decision.
The British backing for Israel is helping to sustain an unbearable status quo. Making a difference to Netanyahu will take the cooperation of the UK in joining our effort to control the carnage in Gaza. At present we are stating our military aid given to the Israeli government can only be used for defensive purposes. Biden has no real power to control Netanyahu, but he can make him aware of my grandfather's favorite saying, "I can't make you do anything, but I can make you wish you had."
Empty rhetoric. Stop the arms supply. Funny how two republican presidents were able to make Israel tow the line previously. And I'm no fan of republicans
Ray--The only line they towed was the lunch line. Israel only did what they did in the past because the area was basically quiet. Given the same destructive forces that we witnessed on 10/7 and things would have been different, no matter who our President was. The times they are a changing.
The area was not quiet. Go read something. And your approach that the Israel Palestine conflict somehow started on Oct 7th is obviously biased. Israel is the aggressor historically.
Ray--I could care less about historically. What happened on 10/7 was inhuman at best. Whatever Hamas gets they deserve in spades.
What Hama gets, they DO deserve. The entire Palestinian population Gaza, including little kids, is not Hamas
I think we all do NOT want collective punishment to be the norm.
Can you deny that Netanyahu and his ilk "created" Hamas? The Palestinians are the same people as us. They react to injustice the same as we do.
By that logic, what if a few rogue American citizens were Hamas recruits? Would that entitle Israel to attack America and wipe out unrelated innocent Americans?
Of course not!
And that's why you people are ignorant and stupid. Do you think everything was fine, it was all peace and harmony in Gaza and the West Bank. No of course it wasn't but you want to absolve the IDF and the Israeli government, and to some extent the Israeli people for allowing this situation to get worse and worse. But hey, you pretend history started on Oct 7th. By your logic, I could arbitrarily pick Nov 7th, forget about what happened before and just pick that as the point to judge the situation. Dumb.
some people say Oct 7th was chickens coming home to roost. Other people are mindless rubes and morons that don’t understand context
You should darn well care about what happened historically! Those who ignore history are destined to repeat it!
No Israel is not the aggressor. For example, look at 1973. Look at who started THIS war. Infadada or whatever disturbed the peace did not start with Israel!
I love the cherry-picking. When did Israel start stealing lands from Palestinians? How many Palestinian deaths have their been in comparison to Israeli deaths? You people are so selective. I could imagine you guys saying 'Hey, look at D Day and all the aggression of the west's forces on those poor innocent Germans' Thats how stupid you sound.
Intifada (look up the correct spelling) was resistance by an occupied people. The 'peace' you speak of, is essentially Israeli oppression/land grab/jailing/dehumanizing Palestinians. It started in 1948. 750k Palestinians were forced out of their homes, their farms, their businesses. Fully 70% of the people in Gaza are refugees/descendants of refugees of the 1948 Nakba (disaster). Can anyone in the U.S. imagine, an outside group, coming to their homes, knocking on the door, and telling you to get the hell out, your home/property is now forfeit to the state of Israel. I encourage you to do some reading. "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pape (Jewish son of IDF General) is a good place to start. Ray Payne, this is for you, as well.
why don’t you know things?
Ray--Compared to now it was.
Can you please elaborate, I’m genuinely interested.
Elaborate on what?
He’s going back to the Suez Canal crisis in 1956, and Reagan in 1980. All points that aren’t relevant to this discussion. Israel wasn’t a strategic ally in 1956, or in 1980….:)
Robert --I concur.
I call bullshit, they are in cahoots with Republicans and they want another one installed so they can rape and pillage the American people to. How irresponsible a statement. They gave US secrets to their Middle East friends and want bloodshed to reign down upon us. How did you miss this? Seriously.
You call bullshit, I call ignorance. What a stupid facile comment. Another one with Trump derangement syndrome.
Your arguments are mean and Trumpian.
Seems like you’d rather complain and criticize instead of finding ways to solve the problem.
You keep repeating nonsense. The two presidents were Eisenhower (against Israel and Britain during the Suez crisis) and as you stated earlier, Reagan.
The difference is Israel wasn’t an ally in 1956, and wasn’t a strategic interest in 1980. So continue to regurgitate insignificant points that have no bearing on the relationship now, as though they are significant to the current crisis.
Amazing how you place all the blame on the US, when we didn’t start this war, Hamas did. Yet, we’d never this by you ignorant comments.
Not a fan of the GOP either and especially with it's twisted MAGA platform. We can only hope that Biden and Blinken can get Netanyahu and Israel to see the light. If Trump gets reelected, Gaza would likely get absorbed by Israel which would be even more catastrophic and a two-state solution would be off the table.
I'm sorry mate, I don't do the 'oh things will be worse under Trump for Palestinians'. Right now they are dying from enforced starvation, and almost 40000 dead from the IDF terrorist attacks, supported and armed by the US. Biden should be in the Hague alongside Netenyahu.
That's because your view is ridiculously narrow. . . mate. Because sadly Biden has other concerns than just making Netanyahu back off the slaughter of thousands of innocent Palestinians. He's also governing and trying to maintain democracy in the largest country in the West. I'd love to see him tell Netanyahu to call elections before getting any more military aid, but the grave consequences of having Trump back in the White House go far beyond the hideous situation in Gaza. It would have horrible momentus impacts in the US and the world. Awful as things are in Gaza, having Trump back would be worse, not just for Palestinians but people and countries around the world.
if the risk of trump is so great, and the danger of Trump is even greater for Gaza, and you care at all, why wouldn’t Genocide Joe emasculate that vile ethnostate?
facts
Guess what, Joyce. 1492. Does that date ring a bell? Guess where the expelled Jews found refuge. In countries ruled by the Ottoman Empire, in other words, Muslim-ruled countries. (Even before that date, Jews were finding refuge from Christian pogroms in Muslim-ruled territories). At that time - 1492 - Greece was under Ottoman rule. Look up the history of Thessalonika. Yes. Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together. It has been done. It can be done.
Well, THAT never happened … What are you talking about?
Go read...
NO, you put up or shut up. Explain, or are you afraid your argument won’t hold?
I'll give you one. Reagan stopped the export of Fighter jets to Israel and got them to cool their heels when they were on a war footing. So go read and educate yourself. You realise that you making the claim that 'that never happened' means you need to back up your stupid assertion, not just rely on me to give you factual history. Your response is the equivalent of a 5 year old going 'nu-huh'.. you people are pathetic in your ignorance
Cite your sources. You're the one making the claim and using the charlatan's dodge "do your research" as if you possess some naturally imbued authority other than your unsupported opinion. Put up or shut up! Don't bother responding with anything other than links to your sources, otherwise you'll be making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have, since I'll not respond to anything you say other than the sources I >demand< you show. And until you pony up those sources, I'm plainly saying you are some kind of MAGA or Trotskyite >charlatan< convinced we're the kind of idiots you're well practiced at hustling, and not worthy of any further response. You're a waste of time and keystrokes.
Go fuck yourself. Google it moron. I gave you one already. You stick your head in the sand if you like... Its not that hard to find it. You're like some flat earther shouting 'Give me scientific proof' when there's plenty there to find.
Ray I've read enough of your comments to know that you are an intellectual light weight and out of your element. Just as all partisans you are blinded by your beliefs, your fears and your smug self righteousness, you believe that libs are inferior, and of course you believe that you and your kind are superior.
Just another fool and tool Ray, just another fool and tool.
What drives you is the gut wrenching feeling that you are on the losing side of a grand game, otherwise you wouldn't even bother with a bunch of liberals.
I hope you feel good getting that out of your system. Absolutely nothing by the way of a point or argument to make. Now off to bed and don't forget to get mammy to tuck you in and get a nice glass of milk and a cookie.
There is no chance of peace in the Middle East, and chance of a settlement or a two state solution, because it is not a problem. Problems have solutions. There is no solution, because this is a 1400 year old religious conflict.
It started in Medina when Muhammad had 600 members of the Jewish tribe of Banu Quaryza beheaded, six at a time, (it is in the Quran). And is further sacralized by the hadith of al Bukhari, sahaih 1295/1296, book 56,.hadith 139, also in the 1988 HAMAS Covenant para 7, Art 7.
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
Any Muslim who makes peace with the Jews is an apostate, And Israel is a Jewish state.
A truce can be had though, since a truce, but not recognition of a Jewish State.
Someone has to stop and say "Enough!" Someone needs to draw a line under the past and say "It's time to change." Religious books are no more everlasting truths than constitutions. If we don't change we don't grow and we condemn ourselves to hell on earth forever more. Who will have the courage to step up? We need a new Gandhi or Mandela.
Americans assassinate their Ghandis. Little hope here .
Picking quotes from the Koran is as meaningless an explanation for the Palestine-Israel political situation as picking quotes from the Old Testament.
How about some more contemporary quotes?
"The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war." - David Ben-Gurion 1937
"The West Bank and Gaza will be restored to the people of Israel. All if it. Forever." - Menachim Begin 1954. Israel never intended to accept a two state solution.
nor did arafat.
what does that have to do with the current belligerent ethnostate?
Lee--- I think it began with Moses and Joshua as they swept across Cannan and conducted genocide upon everyone they saw. It was God's will. The people of that region have a terrific memory.
As an atheist, a skeptic, a non believer in anything.I am going to say something that will be considered "antisemitic" and by semite I include Muslims because they believe the fairy tale that they are descended from "Abraham's" son Ismael and the Jews from "Abraham's" son Isaac.
The whole origin myth which Christians call the Old Testament, and Jews call the Pentateuch or Torah, is bullshit, it was purloined from the Babylonians, as the people we now call Jews, and he Egyptians called Habiru, worked in the library of Babylon and knew the origin story of the Sumerians. The subsequent books which are the TeNACH, are stories purloined from the peoples among whom they lived, some of it history, the rest myth, and the Kings and Prophets in the TeNACH are composites. For instance Solomon is a composite of the wise fish god of the Assyrians and some Assyrian kings, same with David.
It is a book of fiction, and upon that is based the three major cults of the western and Middle East, anc Central Asian world.
I've done my own reading and research, including Godgrey Higgins, Anacalypsis: Drawing aside the Saitic Veil, (two thick volumes in fine print), published in the 19th Century, and Sir Robert Burton's, the Jew, the Gypsy and El Islam (he was one of the few infidels that visited Mecca)
Here is what I have learned. There was a tribe of camel drivers, Merchants, in the Indus Valley, in the region of where live the Pashtun. (The Pashtun have so many Hebrew words and even a village called Talumd..in the 19th century) that Israeli Rabbis consider them a lost tribe.
These camel drivers, merchants plied the silk road, and settled in commercial centers like Babylon and Tyre.
When Cyrus the Great, whom they call mashiach of messiah, laid siege to Babylon, they were not of a mind to die for a King, not of their tribe, so they made a deal with Cyrus and threw open the gates.
Cyrus rewarded them with a piece of land, named Uru Salem, named for the Storm God, the Plaque god known by the names Uru and Salem.
Meanwhile over in Tyre, members of this tribe, hitched rides on Phoenician boats and sailed to Egypt, where they engaged in commercial practices, including lending, and they prospered, too well in fact, that the Egyptians complained to their King (Pha RA oh), and the Pharaoh, evicted them from his kingdom. They eventually also arrived in Uru Salem.
The Egyptians called them Habiru, which means cutthroat/thief, and they were polytheistic, worshiping among other gods Ba'al.
You don't build a cohesive tribe, by basing it on a story that you were evicted from Egypt, so the story of the Exodus was concocted, after this figure they named Moses (which is Egyptian for born or first born Tuthmoses means born of god Toth), Whether they didn't blow trumpets to bring down the walls of Jericho, the walls fell because of an earthquake, and it was a small town at any rate.
As regards the slaughter of the Amelkites, Ca'amites and other genocidal acts, including the David and Goliah story, there is no evidence, more than like tribe building myths, to show how great and superior was the tribe. No doubt small clans and tribes were encountered, and from them were adopted many of the stories and prophets that wound up in the Old Testaments (TeNACH), and I am sure there were bloody encounters, just like happens all over the world when migrating peoples encounter sedentary peoples. How many native Americans did the migrating Americans wipe out, how many untold tribes did the Sarmatians, and Huns, the Goths, wipe out? Those that survived became part of the whole. It is that way and always has been since mankind staked a claim on territory for survival.
Kentucky was no man's land for the tribes that live around it, like the Cherokee, Shawnee an Fox, it was hunting ground, and anyone who was foolish enough to try and live there paid the price with their lives.
I'll forgo the genesis of Islam, the story is in the Quran, and most of that is also fiction. and it's sacred text were written during the Rashidun, Umayyad, and Abbasid caliphates. ,most of it fiction, just like the "New Testament", and on the basis of these works of identity building fiction, hundreds of millons have been slaughtered and suffer and still being murdered and suffering today.
Pure insanity. My question then is there really intelligent life on earth. If aliens exist and they are watching us from UAP's, then Earth is an intergalactic Serengeti and we are the apes that are being studied, maybe an object lesson for families. "Look what happens if you don't behave".
Interesting comment, and I agree, religion is a fantastical cult. I’m Jewish but don’t practice. It’s all based on illusionary beliefs; some from real historical events, others just created through mythology, not unlike the Greek and Roman Gods.
I’d be more inclined to believe this earth was seeded by aliens from another galaxy, than any religion that exists today. Not to say all religion is bad. They do offer a sense of purpose and salvation for those who have no discipline in life, or a limited education.
That said, religion and god is mutually exclusive; I believe in god, just not the versions based on our understanding of an omnipotent being.
I’ll leave it at that….:)
I understand an irreligeous Jew. It is an etnicity you are born into, via the maternal line. My great grandmother was a Jews (sephardic until the 3rd World Jewish Congress declared that all Jews were Ashkenzim.if you follow the blood line per the Talmud, I too am an ethnic Jew, My great grandmother, my grandmother, my mother and then me and my sisters (no brothers)
Unlike Christians and Muslims, Jews come in all flavors from atheists like Einstein to the Haredi Jews. There are secular Jews like you, progressive Jews like Jon Stewart and conservative Jews like David Weiss, You will find liberal and progressive Christians and Muslims, but not secular Christians and Secular Muslims. those, like Irshad Manji, a lesbian, who claim to be Muslim, only do so because she lives, safely in America.
I guess you could call, atheist who put up a tree on Dec 25th, exchange presens and light their house, or like me, buys Easter Candy, and put out Easter baskets for my kids when they were young, secular Christians, but that is more like celebrating Thanksgiving, which I understand they even do in China.
Every ideology, and religion has an ideology, has a beginning and it starts with people asking questions about origins, and where they are going. Humans don't want to die, they want to live forever, and religion provides and answer for some.
The above and it is the oldest and most perfected tool of social control
Out of print by Word Controlled Humans by John Harlan is worth the read.
Lee--It may be a book of fiction, but the indigenous people think it's fact. That's the reality of the situation, now what we do to shed some honest light on the subject.
Honest light has been shed on the subject from it's outset and all that it has netted the light shedders is death and defamation.
There is the story in Exodus, where Moses comes down from the Mtn with the tale of a new religion and a new god. An idea, monotheism, that was picked up during the sojourn in Egypt from their knowledge of Akehnaton.
Monotheism is much superior to pantheism or polytheism, as you have only one priesthood, and one king.
The tribe rejected Moses sock puppet, laughed at him. Moses called his brother Aaron to his side and instructed him, that he was to gather his friends, and while the tribe slept to go through the tents and slit the throats of every other man. The tribe got the message and Moses and his sock puppet became the leader of the pack.
Donald: Some comment I made in the last 7 days, has disturbed Robert, Despite the fact that he has liked one of my comments, Maybe I'm too rigorous in defense of Israel, despite the fact that I am considered an anti Semite, because I am anti Zionist.
The reason I say this is because even though I am not banned, and can post,I do not get notifications of RR's articles, nor do I get notifications of replies to my comments.
The reason I saw this comment of yours is because I refresh the page
Lee--I to have thought, for a period of time, where I was in the previable doghouse also. But time healed things. I believe there are others that make decisions regarding what happens here.
I am sure that RR does not administer this site all on his on, it is a big job, Just take a look at the number of comments...hundreds daily.
Thom Hartmann has his own substack as well, but Thom doesn't ban people, nor restrict them, even obvious trolls. https://hartmannreport.com/
Thom has his own show on Free Speech TV as well as his own radio program. He is really good, lots of good info, not just opinion.
I have even supported RR when he was attacked, to no avail. I am quite vociferous and adamant in condemning and blaming HAMAS, and even the Zionists, maybe too effective. I sure pissed off someone, now I have to
Excellent phrase and soo true.
Sum--He was a gunnery Sargent in WWI who fought in the trenched in France.
I like your grandfather!
Susan--I liked him to; he was a tough old bird.
He may have been tough, but he sounds like he had good sense. Sorry he's not with us now.
Susan--Thanks, me also--
....except our military aid is NOT being used just for defensive purposes. That is, unless "defensive" is defined as bombing civilians.
Denise--That is the sticking point.
Well....I'd tend to think Netanyahu doesn't used the OED definition. If the U.S. allows him to use his own criteria, the red line is meaningless.
Denise--The man is a rogue.
I think you're being much too kind, Donald.
I agree Netanyahu has failed, and I certainly wouldn't vote for him if I were an Israeli voter, but remember Israeli voters did elect him repeatedly over more than a decade. He had formed his extremist coalition before the most recent election, and they won 64 out of 120 Knesset seats. 61 seats are needed to form a government. Even before October 7, only about 35% of Israelis supported a Palestinian state. In a recent poll, 68% of Israelis supported blocking humanitarian aid to Gaza. News outlets in Israel don't show the full horror of what is happening in Gaza, because Israelis don't want to see it. I think we need to look beyond Netanyahu personally when dealing with this situation.
I thought the number was around 50% supporting a two state solution, but regardless, I agree with your comments….:)
I, the eternal pessimist, don't believe a two state solution will ever stand, no more than Putin will allow Urkraine to stand, or any nation that is not Russian controlled on his border.
The Arabs will not allow it, Iran will never allow it. the obliteration of Israel is fundamental to the Iranian mullahcracy.
The esistence of Israel is the perfect foil for the corrupt Arab leadership that surrounds Israel. Then need a Jewish state, the existence of the state, enables the oppressed citizens of their countries to deflect attention.
Jews are the perfect scape goats, they are a minority,until Israel, one with a state, because they have been victimized and oppressed, they have become insular, and self productive, their survival had depended upon solidarity and communication, which gave them an advantage in commerce, intramural and internatiional.
Because they have been discriminated against, even hunted and oppressed their survival had depended upon secrecy and communication.
One learns to use whatever tools they have for survival.
Jews are not the heartless, blood sucking vampires of the Christian tropes, but people trying to survive in a heartless, blood sucking Christian world.
And it isn't just Christians but from the 7th Century Muslims as well.
Muslims will tell you that until the Zionists Muslims and Jews got along just fine.
And they did, so long as Jews accepted the status of dhimmis' (second class citizens) and paid the onerous jizzyah, poll tax.
The Quran, speaks of Peoples of the Book, meaning Bible, meaning Christians and Jews, they are accepted as being able to live in Muslim lands,but the haddiths require that they do so as second class citizens (dhimmi's) and pay the poll tax (jizyyah) in Iran that includes Zoroastrians, which makes sense because Christianityitself is a form of Zoroastrianism, introduced into it by "St" Augustine, who had been a priest of Mani, ( a Manichean), which is a Greek version of Zoroastrianism, like the Anglican church was a form of Catholicism.
There is no room or tolerance for polytheists like Hindu's or atheists like myself, we either convert, keep our mouths. shut, make pretense of conversion, which is OK with Islam as they know that male converts may not be Muslim in their hearts, but their children will be.
A Muslim male can marry a kaffir (Kufr, infidel) female, because the man will raise the kids as Muslims, however for a Kufr male to marry a Muslim woman, he must convert to Islam.
That is why, in the west, when you see a Muslim male, like Christiane Amanpour's father) marry a kufr woman (her mother is British), you can bet she was raised with Muslim sensiblities and loyalties as her identity, and it shows in her reporting.
Especially in the wake of the Gulf Wars, a lot of American and British soldiers married Muslim women, but they all had to convert to Islam, otherwise the woman would not marry them. Cognitive dissonance sets in, and the converts become rabid Muslims, even extremists. The most rabid of the faithful are converts, true across religions and other ideologies, because of cognitive dissonance, one's behavior flips to the extreme to convince not only others, but more importantly themselves.
There were a group of Jews in the Levant which found a way around the dhimmi-Jizzyah problem. They adopted Islam or aspects of it, but kept their traditions and they call themselves Druze.
As the world becam
He's still Prime Minister because of the way the Israeli parliament operates--the tail of extremist Orthodox Jews is wagging the dog. Much like Trump took advantage of our skewed electoral system, Netanyahu exploits the fractured parliamentary system of Israel to hang on to power. Notably, that weakness, where even a tiny party with less than 1% of the votes can direct policy because of the fragile coalitions that can get patched together, is precisely what happened to Germany in the 30s and allowed Hitler to rise.
Hmm, “1% of the votes can direct policy” sounds only too much like the US House right now, where Green - a majority of ONE - thinks she personally can dictate policy by holding a knife to Johnson’s throat.
You aren't curious, you are incisive. spot on.
Agreed…:)
I’ve been deeply critical of Bibi for over 20 years. That hasn’t changed. That said, it’s disingenuous and false to assert that the “only” reason Israel was attacked was Bibi. Is he partially to blame for his nationalistic policies? Sure. For the slowness of Israel’s response? Sure. (Although this is a matter of tactics the world over. It’s not so different from the police standing pat outside the school in Uvalde a year ago. I’m not defending or justifying, just saying this is how militaries and police are trained to respond, right or wrong.) Hamas bears significant responsibility as well, for their own brutality, and genocidal agenda.
It’s highly insulting to the Palestinians and Hamas to assert, as you are doing, that they have no agency, no choice. They are people, with everything that goes with it - an entitlement to our empathy AND our criticism when they, too, are in the wrong. In this case, Hamas attacked, not because of Bibi, but because of Hamas.
Cutting of Israel is punishing one victim (Israel) to help another (Palestinian civilians). On that score, it’s a choice, except for it also gives Hamas a free pass and veto for the future. It guarantees a future conflict that is far more brutal than this one.
I never said Hamas isn’t to blame. They are a terror organization and need to be stopped and destroyed immediately. That said, it’s wishful thinking to believe that this war will kill an ideology.
There are now over 100k casualties and over 35,000 dead; the majority women and children. Israel can’t act like a terrorist organization and kill indiscriminately, which is what they are doing.
And this aggression solves nothing and will only make any future peace agreement more unlikely to succeed; which I believe is Netanyahu’s goal.
So please don’t put words in my mouth. I was speaking from the standpoint of Netanyahu’s intransigence at this point. I never trusted the guy and believe his policies over the last decade have also contributed greatly to the overall situation Israel faces today.
Furthermore, did the war on terror kill Al Qaeda? No, it inspired an even more demonic organization we now call ISIS to formulate. And our war of folly in Iraq spread to Syria and Africa, with new terror groups like ISIS in Africa or ISIS in Chechnya.
For two decades Netanyahu has told us that Hamas is the greatest threat to Israel, yet he knew a year in advance of the plans and did nothing except everything one could do to make sure the attack caused maximum damage on Israel, including moving half the defense force stationed in Gaza to the West Bank and taking more than eight hours to respond.
This is why I believe Netanyahu and his right-wing cabal aren’t doing Israel’s long-term interests any good, and destroying our global reputation as well.
I agree, and I am pretty sure Netanyahu et al allowed the Hamas attack to give them the excuse to do what they have always wanted to do: Erase Palestinians from the equation. Israel has not only prevented aid from getting to Gaza, they have also achieved the dream of eliminating UN from the Gazans. Bibi has said that eliminating the Palestinians would not be possible as long as the UN was there to support them. That hateful bunch of Zionists is their own worst enemy.
I share the same opinion Paula, but at the same time he had no idea of the extent of the horror, probably thought it was going to be a missile attack.
I have also read that the reason Israel is allowing the beach ramps to be built is NOT to get aid to the Palestinians, but to have a way to get them out of Gaza without involving Egypt.
The Chris Hedges Report has been delving deeply into the truth about Israeli plans and motivation. He is not talking only to Palestinians, but mainly to Israelis who have personal experience and knowledge. I have had to stop/pause reading and listening to his episodes because I get too upset and my BP goes into the red zone.
That is the problem with the westerners. Too emotional. They get too emotionally involved with things that are thousands of miles away, all you need to do is show them pictures of dead, distressed children and crying woman, and you have them by their lymph nodes.
Take note there is no crying,wailing and ripping of clothing over Ukrainian children and women. Putin bombed schools and hospitals on purpose, but the Ukrainians did not flood the zone with images of dead, dismembered and dying babies and children.. their bad. Not being filth like HAMAS they don't exploit their people and their children.
You said “only.” That has a specific meaning. Maybe you really also criticize Hamas. I don’t know. But take a look at the world about you. It’s tribal and dishonest. Consider how often people on BOTH sides of the political spectrum deflect and say, “well, of course the other side is at fault” when asked why they criticize only one side.
I have the scars to show that I call both sides out when I think they are wrong, and I praise both sides when I think they are correct. I may be wrong, but I don’t shy away from the truth as I see it. And, I’m also open to admitting when I am wrong, as I understand it. To give a non-Israel example, I have always been a left-of-center moderate and anti-Trumper, and I donated to the Biden campaign for the first time in 2020. But I give the Trump administration credit for bringing industrial policy into the policy mix (I was on the wrong side of economic thinking on that) and for Operation Warp Speed. See? I despise Trump, for his lies, criminality, and cruelty, and I disagree with him on most policies, like his tax cuts or the wealthy, but I can still say he done good when he did.
Are you the same, or are you just deflecting? Please be honest with yourself, if not with me.
Seth,
Many on this substack attack you if you allow for truth to be expressed in a variety of places. Perhaps both the equanimity in which you expressed this & presumed male voice, you are not yet attacked. These substacks become groupthink .
Fair enough, but when I said Netanyahu is responsible, it’s not that I do t think Hamas isn’t at fault, they are 100% at fault for the attack; they were conceived to destroy Israel, we know who they are and what they stand for.
That’s what separates Hamas from being a legitimate government. My intent was not to mitigate Hamas roll in this terror attack, I was assuming for the sake of this discussion, that it’s baked in. I was talking about Israel’s culpability for not doing enough to secure itself from such an attack.
Furthermore, Netanyahu has been telling us for the last 20 years that Hamas is the greatest threat to the homeland. Yet, he had the intelligence of an impending attack a year in advance, yet he moved more than half of Israel’s Gaza military deterrent to the West Bank months before.
He shut down Israel’s NSA (Unit 8200) monitoring Gaza communications months before, and couldn’t even send one military unit to the area for eight hours. Not to mention, allowing Qatar and the UAE to give billions to Hamas over the last several years.
So either Netanyahu is the most incompetent and dumbest SOB ever to live, or he allowed Hamas to inflict maximum damage, so he could conduct this war with extreme prejudice.
That’s my point, and I do agree with much of your sentiments and comments. Hope this clarifies my position and meaning.
If I goad you into throwing the first punch, and then you throw that punch and I in turn beat you into a pulp, who is the aggressor.
Before Sep 1, 1939 Poland would daily goad Hitler, threatening to be in Berlin in three days. Hiler didn't bite, there was the Tripartite pact between Poland, Britain and France.
Finally Hitler had three criminals dressed in Polish uniforms, shot them and had their bodies displayed near a radio station on the border, and used that as a pretext to invade Poland
Britain and France didn't buy the ruse.
Who was the aggressor,? Frederick the Great said that he who causes the other to attack is the aggressor.
Maybe if Poland had given up the Danzig corridor, which they call Gdansk, there might not have been a WWII.
According to Viktor Suvrov, in Icebreaker, it was Stalin who really started WWII, he had plans to invade Germany, and according to Han Rudel, in Stuka Pilot, when Operation Barabarosa opened, he flew over Soviet lines to bomb an airfield and below him were row after row of Medium bombers.
It is all history, it is past and full of what if's and should have's, nothing we can do about the past, it is spent money, tomorrow is a promissory note, today is cash, and we must spend it well, and well is not how we are spending it.
We are phucking up the future, because of what we believe about the past, and we haven't learned the lesson, that he who controls the past, controls the future, but some with the best propaganda machine do and know the lesson all too well, and who controls the propaganda machine, well it is he who controls or has the most money, and where is that money?, it is pumped out of the ground as black sludgy liquid.
35000 dead? Where are you getting your numbers? From Hamas’ Ministry of Health? These are the same people that claimed that 500 people were killed just minutes after a rocket hit a parking lot outside of a hospital in Gaza City - a rocket, which they claimed, was an Israeli bomb - only to suddenly go quiet when the truth came out that it was a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket that fell back to earth after being launched and that about 12 people were actually killed. Seriously? These are the people you accept at face value in terms of numbers? There have been analyses showing that the numbers of “civilian” deaths is seriously misleading: https://www.newsweek.com/more-accurate-accounting-war-gaza-opinion-1880784. According to that analysis the civilian to combatant death ration in Gaza is around 2:1 (2 civilians dead for each combatant). According to the UN, in almost every other conflict, civilians account for 90% of deaths - whereas here the IDF is keeping that number to around 60%.
Do you also realize that they also count their fighters as “civilian” (yes, Hamas fighters fight in civilian clothes contrary to the Geneva Convention - the video evidence is all over the place) casualties when they’re killed. So that inflates their numbers. Also Hamas’ numbers are dubious at best as this analysis shows: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers. The Hamas Ministry of Health claim that the majority of the deaths are women and children is statistically impossible given the makeup of Gaza’s population prior to the start of hostilities. Yet Western media laps it up and refuses to ask questions. Don’t forget that it took Israel a long time to come to an accurate casualty count of the victims of October 7th yet after every strike or engagement between the IDF and Hamas, the Hamas Ministry of Health is able to come up with “accurate” numbers in a matter of hours. Does that not raise any questions in the Western media? Nope - not a bit. They accept it at face value - which they have done since the start of the war and they question and downplay Israel’s reports of its numbers as well as reports of rape and sexual violence against Israeli women (yeah…”Me too…unless you’re a Jew”).
As for Palestinian casualties - the evidence is all over YouTube of examples of what’s called “Pallywood” where they stage “victims” of an “attack” - all with fake blood and fake wounds and dead bodies - film it and then send it out on the Internet for gullible, willing audiences to see and accept at face value (even when a dead body suddenly moves or scratches an itch).
Israel is NOT acting like a terrorist organization - it’s fighting an enemy that a) does not care one iota of the number of Palestinian dead (in fact, they would prefer that there be MORE dead Palestinians because then the outrage in the West would be greater and Hamas is counting on that), b) refuses to fight according to the Laws of War that Israel is being required to follow, and c) could end the conflict TOMORROW if they surrendered AND released all of the remaining hostages (at least 1/4 of which are believed to be dead).
That the Biden administration is now considering stopping arms shipments to Israel as their way to show their determination to prevent Israel from actually winning this war is telling. By not vetoing the UNSC resolution yesterday they open the possibility that the UNSC will pass another resolution applying sanctions on Israel which America would then have consider honoring. They have pretty much given Hamas a victory. Perhaps while they’re at it they should get the UNSC to pass a resolution calling on Israel to surrender to Hamas, withdraw from Gaza and, while they’re at it, call for Israel to pay reparations to the Palestinians for the damage.
As for peace…in order to have peace you have to have two parties who want it. Netanyahu certainly doesn’t (nor does his buddies Smotrich and Ben-Gvir). But it also requires a partner ON THE OTHER SIDE and experience has shown that the Palestinians DO NOT want peace. If you think they do, you’re deluding yourself. I’m not arguing that Israel hasn’t made missteps - but to the Palestinians haven’t made an honest effort towards peace since at least 2000. It was Arafat’s plan to just keep the terror going - even while talking about peace. The Palestinians are the peace partner who hold out their right hand in peace while holding a knife in their left hand behind their back waiting for the opportunity to plunge it into the back of the Israelis.
That people accept without question, the HAMAS claims is evidence of laziness, bias and/or lack of critical thinking. You nailed it with your example of the failed Islamic Jihad rocket launch, being claimed to be an Israeli Bomb, which would have left a huge crater and demolished the hospital.
But the sensational speaking press, even the UN were all to glad to let it pass, and let it slide into sink hole.
Even Martin Griffiths Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator at the United Nations., quotes HAMAS lies,and when Christiane Amanpour was prodded to ask him why he believed the figures, because she also quotes HAMAS as gospel, his reply was "they were triangulated" what ever that means. Triangulated with what HAMAS, Al Jazeera, the Arab press.
HAMAS ejects vomit, and the idiots lap it up.
“That the Biden administration is now considering stopping arms shipments to Israel as their way to show their determination to prevent Israel from actually winning this war is telling.”—Ido Dunrawsky
I won’t argue the death count, but whether it’s 30k or 20k, it’s still a humanitarian crisis. And there are 70k wounded. So there are 100k casualties overall, give or take a few thousand.
That said, are you suggesting people aren’t starving throughout Gaza? That everything is great for the people there? That Israel’s policies over the last two decades have not been draconian?
How large is Hamas? Israel (not using Hamas’s figures) says they have 30k fighters and bureaucrats, so the casualties rate is still staggering.
And seriously, you are suggesting that America doesn’t want Israel to win? What is winning in Netanyahu’s obtuse head? It’s Destroying all of Hamas, correct?
Please genius, tell how he can destroy an idea? It’s an ideology borne from the Muslim Brotherhood and will not die when every fighter is killed; not that you could possibly kill every one of them. It will evolve into a more violent force. We thought Al Qaeda current be any worse, until ISIS emerged because Bin Laden wasn’t evil enough.
Clearly, you haven’t studied Iraq or Afghanistan. Went killed close to a million so called terrorists and Al Qaeda is still around. In fact, we created more terrorists than we killed. Now you ISIS and Al Qaeda in Syria, Afghanistan, Africa and Eastern Europe. The countries continue to grow.
And let’s look at history as a guide. Netanyahu has been telling us for two decades that Hamas is the greatest threat to Israel, yet when they had the intelligence for a year, they ignored it. It took Israel eight hours to deploy a single military unit to the border. And now we find out that Netanyahu allowed Qatar and the UAE to fund Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars.
So please tell me what winning looks like, because if history is an indicator of future success, there is no victory here; just pain and destruction that will beget more pain and destruction.
And in the end, even should you get Hamas, the next terror group to emerge will be far worse.
Just ask anyone who lived in the 70’s and 80’s with the PLO. They aren’t committing terror acts anymore, but Hamas and Islamic Jihad have taken their place in history. When Hamas is gone, Israel will be dealing with an even graver threat, unless it changes course and engages with the Palestinian Authority.
The PA may be corrupt, but so is Netanyahu and his right-wing government of religious zealots.
Netanyahu has given us every excuse in the book, and has continued to play lip service for a two state solution that he would never agree too (he’s a liar). And his true goal; “expelling half of the West Bank Palestinian’s into Jordan, and half of Gaza’s Palestinians into Egypt.”
And these are the words of two of his cabinet members, not me.
Is Netanyahu a dirtbag? Sure…I certainly think he is. Netanyahu allowed Qatar to fund Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars because he thought he was “buying them off” - i.e., buying peace and quiet. Is Netanyahu corrupt? Absolutely. And his buddies Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are right there alongside him. But before you put all of this on Netanyahu and his cronies and pour all of your vitriol into one bucket and think that the Palestinians are not also the authors of their own misery, you need to take another look. You put the blame solely on one side and refuse to hold the other accountable in the least.
Was October 7 an utter intelligence failure - absolutely. Netanyahu is ultimately responsible for the Charlie-Foxtrot that was October 7 - he and his political cronies as well as folks within the IDF. I don’t deny that. Netanyahu is a relic and as he’s gotten older he’s become more ossified in his thinking and more intransigent in his philosophy. But Hamas is also just as responsible for the situation we have today as Netanyahu - actually more so. They could have used those billions of dollars to better the lives of Palestinians - they could have made Gaza into the Singapore of the Mediterranean but instead were as corrupt as their PA counterparts
Sure, you can’t defeat an ideology - certainly not without giving its adherents something more worthwhile to aim for. Netanyahu may have (I don’t know since I certainly wasn’t inside his head thankfully) been thinking that buying off Hamas would incentivize them to actually govern the Gaza Strip and make life better for the Palestinians there. Again, I don’t know but that certainly seems the logical idea. What he didn’t factor in was that Hamas adheres to Islamist ideology and no amount of “buying off” would dissuade them from their murderous intent.
As for the PLO not committing terror acts? Who do you think Fatah is? Fatah is the biggest faction of the PLO - they’re still around - they’re just not using the PLO moniker anymore. They’ve changed their name to the PA - but they’re still the same group. They’ve just cleaned up their act a bit to make themselves more palatable to Western eyes but make not mistake, they’re the same folks and the same ideology as Hamas.
And before you simply put the blame solely on Netanyahu and the Israelis for the failure of peace in this conflict let’s be clear about something. Previous Israeli governments offered the Palestinians what they wanted (think Ehud Barak with the Camp David/Wye River accords and Ehud Olmert and his offer) and they still said NO. How do you make peace when you offer the other side what they want and they still reject it? The PA has shown that they’re not serious about actually ending the conflict - and why should they? The PA bigwigs are making billions of dollars off of it and keeping this festering wound visible. Their strategy is to keep it this way and rely on the Western world’s pearl clutching to force Israel to yield to their demands and ultimately destroy Israel.
I had a Ph.D. advisor in the ‘90s during the early days of Oslo that argued that if the Palestinians had enough skin in the game and had a burgeoning economy they would not risk war because they would realize that they stood to lose too much. What his western thinking couldn’t grasp was that the Palestinians are playing a very long game and they’re not driven by the same motivations that western societies have. Like the Jews, they have very long memories and their aim is not to live side-by-side with the Israelis. For the Arab mindset, that’s just a step along the path to eventually destroying Israel and killing all of the Jews within it.
Yes, Robert it is a Humanitarian Crisis, but one of HAMAS making and one that HAMAS could stop at any moment. Why isn't the spotlight and blame put on HAMAS?
Are people lazy thinkers,lack critical reasoning skils, are just Jew Haters. Muslims are.
I've seen peace loving Jews on TV being interviewed alongside Muslims.
And you can see the Muslims smirking., the most blatant example was on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
Lee, Hamas is a terror organization whose charter is for the destruction of Israel, so we agree.
And yet, Netanyahu has played right into their hands. Democratic governments that purport to believe that all life is sacred, can’t not operate from the same set of principles as Hamas. Otherwise, we are no different. And killing innocents doesn’t solve the problem.
Personally, I have no problem killing every last one of these terrorists (Hamas); however, that wouldn’t be the best solution to the problem if it means killing thousands of innocents in the process.
What is Netanyahu’s end game? He says it’s the total annihilation of Hamas? Seriously? How’d that work out for America in Iraq and Afghanistan? Last I checked, both ISIS, the Taliban and Al Qaeda have more adherents than before the wars began, and didn’t we kill almost all of them, according to our military? Clearly not!
That said, I’m expressing a difference in strategy and approaches. Netanyahu’s way is the worst way to confront Hamas. And if history in Israel is an indicator of future outcomes, it hasn’t work out that well for them in the past either.
Every single time Hamas attacks, we end up in the same place, with each event more deadlier and violent. Perhaps a different approach should be considered.
Netanyahu has deliberately kept the PA weak, and has helped fuel Hamas rise; even allowing Qatar and the UAE to give them billions over the years. This is the problem.
And please don’t paint a broad brush when it comes to the feelings of Jews and Muslims regarding this conflict. It’s difficult for all parties, especially if you have family in the region, or have loved ones who have been killed or wounded.
There are peace loving people on both sides of this conflict, as well as cynical charlatans. It’s the way of the world…:)
Thinking that the current Netanyahu “strategy” in Gaza is the ONLY option, and claiming that objecting to and resisting it is the same as abandoning Israel, is the precise problem. It is NOT the only option, which is the point of many on this thread.
And OTHER actors in the region — Arab countries who are working in ongoing behind-the-scenes negotiations — are also a huge part of the solution. HAMAS needs to be destroyed, as a cancer needs to be destroyed. But, I think the world disagrees that the only way to do that is to wholesale blow up Palestinian civilians in Gaza.
Agreed…:)
Pat: I thought that I posted this before, but can't find it
So here goes again.
Step aside from the emotions that color the discussion, be they loyalty to one side or the other, or just bleeding heart emotions. They cloud the judgement
Why doesn't Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia want Gazan's and West Bank people in their country?Why is Egypt buillding a wall? Why does Jordan and Saudi Arabia arrest migrants and return them?
The answer is because the existence of the state of Israel serves as a distraction for the rulers. Hatred of the Jews is a unifying factor in Islam (I've quoted references before but it is quite obvious)
So long as the State of Israel, a Jewish state, exists and there are Muslims who the leaders of this countries can point to, and this goes for Iran as well, maybe especially since it is official doctrine that Iran is at war with Israel. Then the Arab states that surround Israel have a foll.
Nothing is more unifying than a common enemy, especially one that threatens and is killing members of your tribe (Arab Muslims), and as regards the world wide community of Muslims, the Ummah, even more so.
Almost half of the world's population is Muslim, and they are united in one thing, defense of Islam and that means Muslims.
You can not say the same about Christians and Jews.
Muslims will war with each other over doctrine, leadership, orthodoxy.
There is 1400 year old hostility between Sunni and Shia, and it gets bloody.
ISIS-K is an example. Khorosan is the ancient name for that territory that now comprises Iran, much of Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan
It is split between Shia and Sunni Islam.
ISIS-K is from that region and it is Sunni, it is at war with Iran and has created acts of war with Iran which is Shia.
Iraq is predomiinantly Shia and ISIS invaded and occupied the northern part of Iraq, and withdrew into Syrian, which is also ruled by a Shia elite (Assad is Alawite which is a Shia sect, Shia Islam is more liberal than Saudi Arabia, which is Wahabi Sunni)
Russia has supported the Asad regime, and thus has attacked and murdered Muslims, and squeezed out ISIS, meanwhile Russian planes have been killing the Sunni ISIS fighters.
In retaliation ISIS-K has attacked Russia. We have here Sunni Muslims committing acts of terror against a country that has been supporting a Shia Muslim run country.
When Muslims are attacked they forget their internecine doctrine and power struggles and go against a common enemy, but when it settles down they are back to their old business of an internal power struggle for the heart and mind of Islam.
Bear that in mind, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia need the existence of the state of Israel..just as American and Russia could use an alien invasion of Earth.
With respect, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria are different nations with varying histories. Egypt fears the descendants of the Muslim Brotherhood, which are an internal threat to this day. Jordan already has more than a million Palestinians within its borders, and fears that an additional large influx might destabilize its government. They have substantial history to support that fear. Syria is a divided nation that does not control all of its nominal territory (some of that thanks to the US). Lebanon is basically a client state of Iran, with a government so divided along ideological and religious lines as to be almost completely ineffective. Hezbollah, the Maronite Christians, the Druze, and other groups dominate local fiefdoms. Several of the groups are beholden to Iran for support.
You just ignored all of the recent detente between Israel and its neighbors, Lee.
All the talk of Sunni and Shia, yeah … when a religion’s founder dies, the followers fragment around new “leaders” and start hating each other. Big surprise.
Islam fragmented.
And there’s a LOT of antagonism. Macho guys, them Sunni and Shia …
But all the talk up there about which country is Sunni and which is Shia, and who is Wahabi, and who aligns with whom — Yeah, so?
Iran is said to be a MAJOR supporter of Hamas.
Iran is Persian and Shia.
Hamas is Arab and Sunni.
I’m getting lost in the weeds here about who is fighting with whom, and why you brought up an etravagant explanation of their internecine antagonisms, if you are trying to say that being anti-Israel is what unites them.
Apparently, it does, until it doesn’t.
… and BTW, Mr. Markland, I am NEVER going to apologize for a sense of basic human decency entering into consideration for how human beings SHOULD deal with each other.
You think a sense of decency clouds judgment? [You called it “bleeding heart emotions,” but that’s attack language that doesn’t carry water for decent people. Those of us who keep our humanity intact, and our awareness of the humanity of all caught up in the issue, call it decency. I think an absence of it negates anything approaching judgment. ]
I don’t consider psychopathy “judgment.”
Exactly!
This war I feel Is a gift to Putin on his birthday October 7 pioneered by himself (Putin),Trump ,Iran and Netanyahu himself, it benefits each of those narcissistic evil personalities . We should’ve long ago ( even before 10/7 ) stopped giving Israel money and now for sure we should stop giving them money, missiles and expensive fighter jets. True it makes us look like we’ve got blood on our hands but it’s going to look that way no matter what we do at this Point. In in short Israel Netanyahu Needs this word to continue to keep himself out of jail and to help get Trump back in office so they can push their agenda.
He is as nuts as tRump
Oh good! I guess I'm NOT the only one who thinks this way. Netanyahu is SIGNIFICANTLY more evil and criminal than Fidel Castro EVER was, but we spent BILLIONS only trying to bring down the LATER?!?
Castro actually seemed to care about his citizenry. It is quite clear that Netanyahoo sees his citizenry as DISPOSABLE BODIES! [sic]
Agreed, it appears he, and his right-wing cohorts definitely believe secular Jews are disposable; me being one, and those slaughtered on the kibbutz’s on October 7th…:)
And me being another. My Orthodox brothers don't even consider me Jewish.
Robert, I can't help but wonder why Israeli intelligence didn't know what was going to happen and work to stop it. I keep thinking that Netanyahu wanted this to happen so he could destroy Gaza and maybe Hamas along with it. The settlers are clamoring for more land and . . . I believe that is exactly what Putin did related to the attack on the theatre near Moscow. The US had given Russian Intelligence information about a possible attack by ISIS. He wanted to blame it on Ukraine, as he did, and a bunch of Russian bodies are OK if he can get the propaganda to say Ukraine did it. It is a bit harder now that the word is out in some places at least that ISIS was the culprit. Putey is still claiming Ukraine. It appears the two men are working from the same playbook. Neither should ever be in charge of anything, but it seems sometimes voters are nuts or voter fraud in those countries is really powerful, probably a bit of both!
Makes you wonder, doesn't it? The similarity to America's 9/11 and Bush's ignoring the "Bin Laden determined to strike America" warnings. Both events provide their national leaders a "casus belli" that couldn't be overlooked.
Netanyahu is still Prime Minister of Israel, for the same unfathomable reasons that Putin is still president of Russia and Trump remains out of prison: pure crafty cussedness, teams of compliant lawyers, and politicians terrified for their own careers and the safety of their families. It's a war within a war, on a global scale. denying Israel, additional weaponry is only putting a Band-Aid deep and grievous wound. It may help in the short run, but will only exacerbate the duality of evil in these sorry excuses for human beings. Such men have always existed with different names and costumes. the question remains, how do you purge the world of the monsters?
Netanyahu is trying to make up for his mistake. He like trump belongs in prison. Crazy right-wingers are making the world horrible. From our dysfunctional House letting Ukranie die, backing the nut job tfg, not funding the government, etc. Lord save us from these extremists!
You don't understand or know of the history of Israel and Hamas. Hamas wants NOTHING BUT the absolute destruction of Israel and EVERY Jew on the planet! Hamas didn't attack because of "Netanyahu and his “right-wing” regime."" They did it for the pure joy of killing, torturing, terrorizing, kidnapping, maiming and raping of Israeli Jews. They had no idea that Israel would react as they did because the rest of the world ALWAYS comes down against Israel for defending itself. The Palestinian people elected Hamas to rule. Now they can do nothing about getting them out. Israel MUST completely destroy and eradicate Hamas. Hamas has said they will CONTINUE attacking Israel in this matter. Do you support that? Do you support Israel protecting itself?
Actually I do know the history of Israel and Palestine, having lived and studied in Israel, and visited several of its neighbors over the years.
And I didn’t say Hamas isn’t a terrorist organization. They were born as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which was responsible for Sadat’s death after the Egypt/Israel peace Accords. They are brutal and vicious and I haven’t implied differently. In fact, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Bin Laden’s number two during 9/11 was one of the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood before he became second in command of Al Qaeda. He was arrested and jailed for Sadat’s assassination.
So I don’t blame Netanyahu for the attack, I blame Netanyahu for his draconian treatment of the Palestinians and his continued building of settlements in the West Bank.
Additionally, I blame Netanyahu for the response, or lack there of on the day of the attack (eight hours), in which Hamas was able to inflict maximum harm and take hundreds of prisoners. This could have been avoided.
So please stop with your simplistic understanding of the conflicts. This isn’t about whether Hamas should be eradicated from the face of the earth. It’s the fact that an ideology can never be eliminated, but it can be controlled when reasonable heads prevail, and we have leadership on both sides willing to negotiate.
We can’t negotiate with Hamas, but we can negotiate with the PA, and pretty much every Sunni gulf state, as well as Egypt and Jordan to work together in order to starve the beast.
However, it only works when the Israeli government isn’t trying to annex the West Bank, and deport half the population in Gaza and the West Bank to Egypt and Jordan. This is the plan of the current Israeli government.
And they aren’t my words, they’re the words two of his right-wing cabinet members who have stated as much, and as recently as a month ago.
Well stated. We live by headlines and memes and platitudes. Not understanding the larger issues. Netanyahu bears responsibility for neglect and arrogance. He is the worst PM in Israeli history. They know that. This wholesale destruction of Gaza is bad military strategy. And bad PR for Israel.
You wrote, "the only reason Israel was attacked is because of Netanyahu and his “right-wing” regime." So, it appears that you blame Netanyahu for the attack. Israel has been attacked ever since it was established as a state and NOTHING israel has done has stopped it. The fact that Hamas PROMISES to do it again and again, their words, not mine, means the only way to stop the attacks is to eradicate Hamas. They sure won't go peacefully. What's your solution? One course of action is to stop sending money to UNRWA, the branch of the UN that IS Hamas. How else do we starve the beast but support the Palestinians? They steal the measly aid that's getting through and most of the humanitarian aid money sent to the Palestinians to enrich their top leaders and build tunnels. Without forcibly destroying Hamas and helping to set up a new representative government, NOTHING will change, even with negotiation with everyone else as you propose.
I didn’t say “the only reason they were attacked,” I said I blame Israel. There is a distinction with a difference.
And destroying an ideal is a fools errand. These people don’t wear uniforms. The best way in my humble opinion is getting everyone else with the program to give Hamas no quarter or money. And any country that helps Hamas will be a global pariah subject to the most draconian sanctions.
Qatar and the UAE will stop funding Hamas if directed. They even asked Israel whether they should stop sending funds and Netanyahu told them to continue.
Israel’s current solution is not a solution. It only guarantees more violence down the road.
It's VERY easy to see what you wrote. You were the first commenter. You wrote:
Ironically, the only reason Israel was attacked is because of Netanyahu and his “right-wing” regime. They ignored the intelligence, moved more than half their troops from Gaza to the West Bank months before the attack, and took over eight hours to dispatch a military force to counter Hamas’s rampage.
You may have thought you wrote differently, but go look what you wrote. I copied/pasted from exactly what you wrote!
Fair enough, but this was my point, sorry for the confusion.
It is unrealistic to expect that any country “will never” be attacked by terrorists or by others.
I didn’t mean to imply that any country can completely protect themselves from terrorists; both foreign and domestic.
In this case, the intelligence was there and it was confirmed by both Jordan and Egypt as to the date: October 7th, the anniversary of the Yom Kippur War; the last time Israel ignored its intelligence services and almost lost the nation.
You would think that if Netanyahu was a serious leader, he wouldn’t had dismissed the warnings so precipitously….:)
Very well said. Thank you. I agree l00 percent.
The sooner Netanyahu is out the better.
PowerCorrupts, subscribe for what?! Where?! Who’s “our”?! Sheesh!!
if president biden is as serious as he claims to be about fighting the existential threat to democracy in the united states, he must capitulate to the fact that the majority of americans are in favor of demanding a ceasefire ... he must contend with the blatant hypocrisy of trying to send humanitarian aid into gaza, while also supplying israel with the bombs and weapons that have killed tens of thousands of innocent palestinians ... he must also contend with the blatant hypocrisy of denouncing the atrocious war crimes committed by russia in the ukraine, while not condemning the same or similar war crimes that israel continues to commit in gaza ... joe biden must realize that the united states' ongoing support of a genocidal war by an authoritarian leader of a far-right political party can hand the 2024 election to the dictator that he so boldly claims he needs to defeat in order to preserve american democracy ...
Once again, Biden has shown tremendous leadership in providing exactly the amount of pressure he could on an American ally, and suffered further erosion of support from both sides, to the point where it is likely he will be defeated in November, and it would not surprise me to learn that Putin played a role in the timing of the Hamas attack with that goal.
Unlike the armchair generals of the press and the opposition, actually governing is not an easy thing, and Biden has actually been providing the leadership that America has needed, but he has not crowed about it. And right now we need a leader who can, as the alternative of Trump will not just mean the end of Democracy in the world, it will mean the end of human civilization as the effects of global climate change accelerate. This case, including regarding the success of Russian meddling in American affairs via social media must be laid out at the Democratic Convention, and some kind of telephone polling system needs to be created to select a leader capable of picking up the torch.
i totally agree ... i also find it confounding that no one that i have seen or read in the mainstream media is drawing the connection between 7 october and russia (not to suggest that russia had a direct role or responsibility in the attack, rather to suggest that after 7 october the tides really began to turn in the russian war on ukraine; 7 october definitely has helped putin -- certainly by drawing even more attention away from ukraine since it happened) ...
as per leadership, thank heavens joe biden has been president during these major geopolitical catastrophes versus his predecessor -- i don't think any of us would want to try to imagine what the state of the world would be had the u.s. not fairly & freely elected biden & inaugurated him into power ... also, obviously there is soooooo much happening behind the scenes that we will never know ...
with all of that said, though, joe biden does understand what it actually involves to be the president of the united states ... i think that he would say (& even has said) that the buck stops with him ... if he really wants to win the 2024 election for the reasons he is campaigning on (primarily, the fact that we are perilously close to losing our democracy, which we very much are), then he must listen to the people and do the very hard job of being the president and finally stop supporting this genocidal war in every way ...
As a very interested Brit I can only agree with you both. From my perspective. Biden’s experience and the first class team that he has are the best chance we have of surviving the next year. Trump only encouraged Netanyahu to be so aggressive.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Oct 7th is Putins birthday. Seems like this was a gift to him.
I believe he has arrived at the same conclusion. Better late than never.
i agree 100% Professor Reich! America's support of israel by sending it an almost unlimited supply of arms is feeding the growth and maintenance of this IMmoral monster. i don't have any easy answers (i assume easy answers for controlling israel's insatiable bloodthirst have already been tried, or suggested at least) but i do think that america should stop sending offensive arms to israel, at least until they stop their genocide -- and instead direct them all to ukraine!
NOTE: edited to remove evidence of a pre-coffee brain fart inspired typo.
You meant immoral, not amoral right? A baby or nature is amoral; they don’t know what destruction they are causing, versus Netanyahu, who is an immoral, corrupt kleptocrat…:)
a·mor·al
/ˌāˈmôrəl/
adjective
lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something.
True, it’s also being oblivious to the damage it causes.
Remember, morality is man made, and different for every society. So being amoral is being unconcerned only because it’s unknown to the being (ie nature, a baby); they don’t know the difference…:)
I'll stick to the original definition thank you.
Good day.
You’re interpreting it wrong.
According to Oxford, amoral is lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something.
A baby is amoral because it lacks a moral sense, which is exactly my point. Nature is amoral because it does not know the destruction it causes. Nature and a baby ate oblivious to morality which is man made and different in most societies.
Would we chop off the hand of a person who steals a loaf of bread? No, it’s immoral in America? but perfectly moral in Saudi Arabia since it’s the law. Morals change over time.
So stick to your definition which is not the full context of the meaning.
Thank you very much and have a good day!…:)
sorry. brain fart inspired typo. i've now had my coffee so this won't happen to me again for ... oh, five minutes or so.
🤣
I believe Biden fears AIPAC....and I understand that Israel would be unable to attack in 7 days if U.S. stopped shipments. Why not stop shipments? MAGAts can't criticize him....so what's the problem Mr. Biden??
Today’s image of a boy emerging from a destroyed building with his eyes staring out and his hands seemingly grasping for answers with destruction all around could have been taken decades ago up to the present. It is always amazing how war images stand out and grab the beholder's eye. It was hard to look at because of the emotion it brings out after reading today’s letter. GirlScientist, many would agree that since October 7th, answers to stop the war have fallen on deaf ears. On the Ukraine comment, perhaps someone is listening. All war is abhorrent. If support from the US were to stop, would Netanyahu and Israel run out of bombs and the war stop? Some of us with no stomach for what is happening, wonder if the price Israel is paying in damage to itself as a State and society is too much. If the Israeli people and the President are adamant that they must crush Hamas at all costs, then bombs or no bombs, friendship, or no friendship with the US, why don’t those who are willing, perhaps the President as well, do a house-to-house assault and rout the militants. It seems to many that even without US backing, if Israel wants what news reports say it does, it has enough soldiers and other armaments to engage the remaining combatant battalions below and above ground. The cost of human life since October is staggering; War sucks, everyone agrees. Combatants fight against combatants in wars, and the collateral damage to innocent civilians has always been there. It’s anyone’s guess as to how a victor will emerge once the war stops and how what has happened has served the Common Good.
Good idea.
Hear hear!
For the time being, stop sending all those munitions to Israel. Instead, send them to Ukraine. Putin's maga-hat communists in the US will object (scream bloody murder) but there is probably a way to do this. For example, send the weapons to our NATO allies in Europe (before Dump's maga-heads destroy NATO to make Putin happy and give rise to a Dump Tower next to Lenin's Tomb in Moscow). The NATO allies can then keep those weapons, and ship their own weapons across to Ukraine as a kind of shell game. Meanwhile, let's hope the Israelis remove Naziyahoo from office and put in a civilized leader who will guide the region to a peaceful two-state solution (maybe under UN mandate). Finally, make all Hitler mustaches illegal in Israel/Gaza for the next thousand years.
Until the extremists in the House of Representatives stop blocking bills to continue to fund and assist the Ukraine, it is impossible to give them the support they need to defeat the Russian aggressors. And if Putin succeeds, his next target will be Moldova, and then another territory or country. This message must be repeated endlessly to the American people. Nobody is safe from Putin’s imperial aims. Nobody!
Thanks, Jude. I understand your meaning but please note that my suggestion offered a possible way around the House extremists. It is rather clear that these people hate the United States and can't wait to "secede" (destroy the USA; lose their minds completely, if they ever had any minds). Yes, Putin will continue his mass murder streak unless we stop him (without a nuclear war). JTC
Attached find a program I attended via zoom last week. Forgotten Democrats' National Chairman Fred Wellman was joined by independent journalist Martin Kuz, who covers the war in Ukraine at https://martinkuz.substack.com/
https://vimeo.com/926576891
Fred has a Midastouch program every Friday night and he I are in the same veterans' discussion group. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL36GQAccexbwfbZk_lhXI_-1-rRwHZ7ea
You should send this excellent article to the New York Times as an Opinion Piece. Like Todd, I wish President Biden had withdrawn his support for Netanyahu long before this, and I hope he will take this opportunity albeit late in the day to make the right choice. However Todd, please don't abandon President Biden and the Democratic Party because of Gaza. A Trump administration would be so very much worse for both the U.S. and the world. The Democratic Party and President Biden himself, though imperfect, have done heroic and stellar work for the American people these past 3+ years, putting the economy back on track after years of "trickle-down economics" and strengthening the labor movement and other progressive forces in our country. Trump and the leadership of the increasingly MAGA-dominated Republican party have no interest in public service, problem-solving or even in telling the truth. They seek only to manipulate public opinion and tear down or capitalize upon what others have painstakingly built to enhance their own power, status and wealth. They are thoroughly corrupt and need to be soundly defeated.
Stop sending money and arms to Israel.
What use is "humanitarian" aid when Biden is also sending weapons to Israel to murder Palestinian civilians?
The devastation wrought by Israel and abetted by the Biden Administration will live in infamy.
Well said! Thank you.
"Israel is one of America’s closest allies." Nonsense. They've been selling weapons to Russia to use against Ukraine; their Prime Minister has repeatedly tried to interfere in US politics on behalf of the GQP, and they have several times acted against US interests in the Middle East and only been forced to stop by various US Presidents (Democrats and Republicans) threatening to withhold military aid. It's time Biden joined those Presidents.
As for Gaza, if Hamas is in the tunnels below ground, why is the IDF constantly bombing above ground? They have known about the tunnels for years. Why haven't they been preparing to fight a war in the tunnels? They have robots, sniffer dogs, and other means to make entering the tunnels safer, so why not use them to take the battle to the enemy?
I can think of only 2 reasons:
1. They are trying to fight the battle without endangering IDF soldiers while making it look like they are accomplishing something--at the cost of over 32,000 Palestinian lives.
2. They really want to expand Eretz Israel and drive all Palestinians out of its expanded borders.
Maybe both.
If they really want to end the war, why not return the illegally Occupied Territories to Egypt, Jordan, and Syria and let them deal with the founding of the Palestinian state?
I think they want all of Palestine to be Israel. There appears to be no other purpose for their action.
It sure looks like it.
I agree, Maureen. Close allies don't steal U.S. classified documents to build their own nuclear weapons.
Maureen, back in the olden days, the Palestinians were urged to leave the new state of Israel and flee to the surrounding Arab countries where they were put in refugee camps for decades. At the same time all 5 surrounding states attacked the new UN created Israel. Today not one of those Arab states wants one Palestinian and have closed their borders. They all have Isis like extremists and they don’t want any more disaffected people. There is an awful lot of blame and distrust to go around here but it is counter productive.
You neglected to mention that the "new state of Israel" did not include the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and Gaza and that the the Palestinians were "urged" to the leave the "new state of Israel" at gun point.
Legally, the Golan Heights belong to Syria, the West Bank to Jordan, and Gaza to Egypt. If Israel does not want the Palestinians in the illegally Occupied Territories, they can return the territories to their legal owners, who can decide whether they want their land back, Palestinians and all, or not. Of course, they don't want just the Palestinians without the land, but with the land could be quite a different matter.
And, of course, if they don't want the land or the Palestinians, they could just give the land back to the Palestinians as the basis for the state of Palestine as the British and the UN originally intended.
You are right of course but the 7 Day War, the UN Declaration and the Balfour Declaration are dim memories on the world scene today. We have to deal with the reality that Israel will not retreat from it’s current boundaries and is pretty much intent on destroying Gaza and the surrounding Arab states are in no shape to take in refugees especially since so many refugees would be Muslim extremists and they already have their own extremists groups. Plus the Hamas leaders live in the Emirates. It is such a tangled web.
Would you have said we should just give up in the face of reality in 1940? The US did, but it got dragged into WWII in 1941 anyway.
If we place "reality" over international law, we will have no international law.
We did not get dragged into war in 1940. The Japanese attacked the fleet in Pearl Harbor on Dec.7, 1941 - the Day of Infamy. Sort of like the Hamas attack on Oct, 7, 2023 or the Twin Towers on Sept. 11, 2000. International Law, like the Cease Fire Resolution in Gaza, is already on the rocks because of the signatories.
I didn't say the US got dragged into the war in 1940. Please read more carefully; you seem to have totally missed the point.
It is absolutely imperative that the US be perfectly clear that America stands fully in support of the Israeli people, but that our Government, cannot stand in support of the Israeli Government’s openly and unabashedly slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians, men, women, and children! A slaughter that is happening both with weapons of war and the inhumane result of war in the form of starvation and deprivation of the necessities of life! We in America are a better people than that!
Well said.
Israel is one of the richest countries and has an overwhelming number of millionaires. And if Israel is running out of military supplies, to me, it's from poor planning. I don't understand why (other than fattening our military industry) we're supplying money and military supplies to Israel. This "war" is doing nothing for Israelis and is instead helping to grow more future Hamas fighters who will be even more determined to "destroy" Israel.
U.S weapon shipments and $3.8 billion annual funding to Apartheid Israel should have ended a long time ago. Israel is a racist nation that has treated Palestinians in Occupied Territories brutally for decades now and treated its Palestinian citizens (20% of Israel) as 3rd class citizens.
Not only could Biden stop sending Israel arms and aid (which implicates the US in genocide) but it could demand that Israel withdraw, and position US troops along the Gaza-Israel border to ensure aid gets in and ensure the genocidal IDF don’t return under the orders of their quasi-fascist government (a peacekeeping force could also be sent to the West Bank to ensure Israel halts all abuses and ceases its continual theft of Palestinian land). Britain and others could assist in this peacekeeping force.
This has been done before in various countries and conflicts e.g. in Kosovo, where the the NATO-led peacekeeping force KFOR still operates, in response to the Yugoslav wars and the threat of ongoing genocide, humanitarian disaster and displacement of a million people. It would arguably cost less to do this than send arms to assist Israel in massacring Palestinians.
That should be happening, but isn't. I don't know why, except that Americans seem to be
unduly fixated on Israel.
Only in technical publications is there ever any mention of the enablers of the war; Hamas leaders in Qatar, Hezbollah leaders, Iranian supporters, Saudi enablers, Yemeni and Houthi leaders, and U.S. war hawks. I suppose there are a dozen PhD theses in progress on this topic. We, the general public are mostly in the dark.
"Many Americans believe Israel must do everything in its power to eliminate Hamas."
If you kill every last Palestinian civilian in Gaza, Hamas will survive, and will probably be strengthened. Netanyahu is a racist, and the worst friend Israel ever had. He has lied to the Israeli people, and to the world, for the last 20 years. He has to go.
Well said and wholeheartedly agree…:)
America, UK, France, most EU countries and Australia are all enablers of the apartheid regime in Israel and the ongoing genocide. The list is far from complete. But especially US carries a heavy responsibility. Change restrict to stop weapons and munitions to Israel.
President Biden has the legal and moral justification for stopping Israel by force
What do you mean "by force"?
what do you think? What does America do when the people are brown?
1. Slow arms shipments to Israel to a trickle. If that fails...
2. Stop delivery of military spare parts to Israel. If that fails...
3. Admit 10,000 Palestinian refugee families to America as a humanitarian act.
(Failing means no action within 14 days. And, announce this stepwise plan to the world.)
Mr McNeill:
Good man!
I wish more readers were willing to offer affirmative actions.
The carping and name-calling and rehashing of 1948 and 1967 are not helpful at all.
I would add another, fourth, act: Deliver humanitarian aid directly to Gaza by massive sealift right to the beach. Encourage American and other national civilians to participate in the distribution under Red Crescent management on the ground.
Vince S
Four weeks ago I sent the President a postcard urging him to stop sending arms to Israel as otherwise we are complicit. I said Netanyahu was off the rails. I further explained the request was not made lightly as my children are half Jewish.
For the past month I've sent texts nearly every day. I encourage you to increase your pressure, Mr. Gordon, so your voice is heard.