Janet, Why should you vote for it? Because if you don’t you are effectively voting for Trump and Project 2025. However much democracy is “gone” as you say, that’s nothing compared to the fascism that Republicans are determined to create.
Janet, Why should you vote for it? Because if you don’t you are effectively voting for Trump and Project 2025. However much democracy is “gone” as you say, that’s nothing compared to the fascism that Republicans are determined to create.
Janet, “invalid”? Really? Because you disagree? Of course your vote is your choice. However, my point remains that a consequence of not voting for Biden is a significant increase in the likelihood of a Trump win. I understand making a vote in protest against important things, even crucially important things. Unintended consequences are still consequences, and in this case those consequences will very likely be the death knell for not only our democracy (no matter how badly flawed) but other democracies around the world. A win for Trump is a win for Putin, a loss for Ukraine, and an increase in the likelihood of another world war, as Putin feels emboldened to attack NATO countries.
But Janet is right in that a vote for Dems doesn't mean that things will get better than they are now. In 2020, Biden told Wall Street that nothing would fundamentally change, and he kept that promise.
For most of the almost 50 years that I've been voting, I've always been told some version of, "Vote Dem or the consequences will be unthinkable." The Dems have cried wolf so many times, and then failed to produce, that many people are utterly frustrated. Single payer? Nope. Codified abortion rights? Nope. $15 minimum wage? Nope. Climate change declared an emergency? Hardly, when Biden is still supporting fossil fuel subsidies while Big Oil rakes in billions, and he's authorizing more and more drilling permits. The answer always is, "Well, but the Dems didn't have a majority in Congress." Except they did, for two years under both Obama and Biden.
I wouldn't vote for TFG with a gun to my head, and yes, I quite well realize what the stakes are in November, but the Dems make it harder and harder to hold my nose and vote for them.
OK, Denise, if nothing has changed, why is it Wall Street is so desperate to defeat Biden? Of course things have changed. Attention has been placed on the corruption of Wall Street and the ways corporations have cheated the American people. As much as Biden would like to make more changes, he needs Congress, and alas, Democrats in important districts decided not to vote in November 2022 and we got a Republican House. Democrats were also betrayed by 2 of their own when Sinema was bought out by big pharma and Manchin decided his increase of wealth was more important than his constituents. That is 2 and a few others throughout the nation. It is the entire Republican Party that has worked to keep the American people from advancing. It seems that is a pretty powerful difference. Blaming Biden for not being perfect is ridiculous because his opponent, Trump is just plain disgusting, in fact, evil. Oh yes, so are his handlers.
What makes you think Wall Street is desperate to defeat Biden, Ruth? I've seen no evidence of that. And as I've said before, the excuse about not having enough Dems in Congress, well....nobody put a gun to Biden's head to force him to make the promises he did in the 2020 campaign. Dems always, always have that excuse. Obama used it after the 2010 midterms, except he'd bailed on single payer long before that.
I don't blame Biden for not being perfect. I blame him for reneging on so many promises and for drinking at the same trough the GOP does. Both parties are owned by Big Corp, and pretending that the Dems are above all that doesn't get us any of the things we need, like single payer, a $15 minimum wage, the end of fossil fuels, codification of women's rights, more low-income housing, and a host of other items.
"But, but, but, t***p is so much worse!" He is a despicable creature, absolutely. Being better than he is is a very low bar. Why not demand much, MUCH better? Actual help for working people that they can see every day.
Not sure which compromises you mean, Victor, but I'm sure FDR did make concessions somewhere. However, he never faced the threat of communism. And fascism was the threat in Europe, which FDR helped defeat.
The fascism threat here stems from the MAGAs and their leader. Defeat will come at the ballot box. Biden's handing billions to Big Oil is not a compromise, it's a [thoroughly undeserved, unnecessary] gift. And it has nothing to do with overcoming fascism. His total reneging on a public healthcare option, again, is a sop to the insurance industry, and nothing to do with fascism. Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but it turns out that Dems' failure to codify abortion rights, as much time and opportunity as they had to do it, is now giving a boost to those with authoritarian aspirations. And so on and so on. Biden is no FDR, and giving the store to Big Corp is exactly what FDR did NOT do.
Oh, I dunno.... Clinton was able to repeal Glass Steagall, which led to the 2008 crash. He also got NAFTA passed, which led to the offshoring of many tens of thousands of jobs. And his personal shenanigans were fodder for the GOP to sidetrack the country for months. With "accomplishments" like that, maybe it's a good thing he didn't get much else done.
Not so quick Janet. The question is not your vote, but whether you are voting for Trump or Biden... this is the last chance, and maybe the last election.
Janet, Oh, please, no one is suggesting otherwise. That sounds like a petulant response with no commitment. I suspect you will do better when the time comes.
Janet, Why should you vote for it? Because if you don’t you are effectively voting for Trump and Project 2025. However much democracy is “gone” as you say, that’s nothing compared to the fascism that Republicans are determined to create.
Voting is the foundation of our democracy and we still have a right to do it,and we better.WE don't want a Putin,China or Cuba type existence.
Janet, “invalid”? Really? Because you disagree? Of course your vote is your choice. However, my point remains that a consequence of not voting for Biden is a significant increase in the likelihood of a Trump win. I understand making a vote in protest against important things, even crucially important things. Unintended consequences are still consequences, and in this case those consequences will very likely be the death knell for not only our democracy (no matter how badly flawed) but other democracies around the world. A win for Trump is a win for Putin, a loss for Ukraine, and an increase in the likelihood of another world war, as Putin feels emboldened to attack NATO countries.
what exactly is wrong with a Trump win, it would be better than sleepy joe.
But Janet is right in that a vote for Dems doesn't mean that things will get better than they are now. In 2020, Biden told Wall Street that nothing would fundamentally change, and he kept that promise.
For most of the almost 50 years that I've been voting, I've always been told some version of, "Vote Dem or the consequences will be unthinkable." The Dems have cried wolf so many times, and then failed to produce, that many people are utterly frustrated. Single payer? Nope. Codified abortion rights? Nope. $15 minimum wage? Nope. Climate change declared an emergency? Hardly, when Biden is still supporting fossil fuel subsidies while Big Oil rakes in billions, and he's authorizing more and more drilling permits. The answer always is, "Well, but the Dems didn't have a majority in Congress." Except they did, for two years under both Obama and Biden.
I wouldn't vote for TFG with a gun to my head, and yes, I quite well realize what the stakes are in November, but the Dems make it harder and harder to hold my nose and vote for them.
OK, Denise, if nothing has changed, why is it Wall Street is so desperate to defeat Biden? Of course things have changed. Attention has been placed on the corruption of Wall Street and the ways corporations have cheated the American people. As much as Biden would like to make more changes, he needs Congress, and alas, Democrats in important districts decided not to vote in November 2022 and we got a Republican House. Democrats were also betrayed by 2 of their own when Sinema was bought out by big pharma and Manchin decided his increase of wealth was more important than his constituents. That is 2 and a few others throughout the nation. It is the entire Republican Party that has worked to keep the American people from advancing. It seems that is a pretty powerful difference. Blaming Biden for not being perfect is ridiculous because his opponent, Trump is just plain disgusting, in fact, evil. Oh yes, so are his handlers.
maybe so, but he will be the next POTUS, just watch and then cry.
What makes you think Wall Street is desperate to defeat Biden, Ruth? I've seen no evidence of that. And as I've said before, the excuse about not having enough Dems in Congress, well....nobody put a gun to Biden's head to force him to make the promises he did in the 2020 campaign. Dems always, always have that excuse. Obama used it after the 2010 midterms, except he'd bailed on single payer long before that.
I don't blame Biden for not being perfect. I blame him for reneging on so many promises and for drinking at the same trough the GOP does. Both parties are owned by Big Corp, and pretending that the Dems are above all that doesn't get us any of the things we need, like single payer, a $15 minimum wage, the end of fossil fuels, codification of women's rights, more low-income housing, and a host of other items.
"But, but, but, t***p is so much worse!" He is a despicable creature, absolutely. Being better than he is is a very low bar. Why not demand much, MUCH better? Actual help for working people that they can see every day.
FDR made some ugly compromises, and he saved the country from the extremes of fascism and communism.
Not sure which compromises you mean, Victor, but I'm sure FDR did make concessions somewhere. However, he never faced the threat of communism. And fascism was the threat in Europe, which FDR helped defeat.
The fascism threat here stems from the MAGAs and their leader. Defeat will come at the ballot box. Biden's handing billions to Big Oil is not a compromise, it's a [thoroughly undeserved, unnecessary] gift. And it has nothing to do with overcoming fascism. His total reneging on a public healthcare option, again, is a sop to the insurance industry, and nothing to do with fascism. Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but it turns out that Dems' failure to codify abortion rights, as much time and opportunity as they had to do it, is now giving a boost to those with authoritarian aspirations. And so on and so on. Biden is no FDR, and giving the store to Big Corp is exactly what FDR did NOT do.
In 1992 rising prices played a role in denying GH Bush a second term. Then Republicans in Congress prevented Clinton from accomplishing anything.
Oh, I dunno.... Clinton was able to repeal Glass Steagall, which led to the 2008 crash. He also got NAFTA passed, which led to the offshoring of many tens of thousands of jobs. And his personal shenanigans were fodder for the GOP to sidetrack the country for months. With "accomplishments" like that, maybe it's a good thing he didn't get much else done.
GOOD!
Not so quick Janet. The question is not your vote, but whether you are voting for Trump or Biden... this is the last chance, and maybe the last election.
Janet, Oh, please, no one is suggesting otherwise. That sounds like a petulant response with no commitment. I suspect you will do better when the time comes.