Capitalism, democracy and freedom go very well together, since capitalism was invented as an economic system to promote a congenial society. After the fall of fascism in the last century, America may have come close to achieving such a society (although there were flaws).
Marx misunderstood capitalism because he assumed the proletariat could only wield power through revolution. He should have known better, because in the late 19th century unions were already forming in England and Germany, and women were on the verge of getting the right to vote. Democracy! I suggest Mr. Thiel sits down again and this time actually reads "Wealth of Nations. "
One of the underpinnings of capitalism, as originally conceived, is progressive taxation. Taxes were high during the post-fascist period of Thiel's Germany, and in America....until things started to unravel here with Reagan's "trickledown economics," followed by the gradual descent into the New Age of socialism.
Such socialism is not something Marx would have recognized, because it is welfare for the rich rather than for the common man. Legal tax avoidance is nothing more than government welfare, so Thiel is one of the new Welfare Queens! As a Rand acolyte and derivatives trader, he has done nothing useful in his career other than take advantage of New Age socialism to enrich himself.
Capitalism is fundamentally anti-democratic because it promotes the rich, who get richer and richer, while opposing the rights of workers, who have to fight the rich with unions. Capitalist owners hate unions because unions want to force the rich business owners to give workers their due. That’s why Jeff Bezos spends millions trying to keep unions out of Amazon. That’s why Starbucks tries to defeat unions. There’s no freedom or democracy when you see a few rich entrepreneurs owning most of the wealth of this country and not giving a damn about whether or not workers have enough to eat. You’re not free if you’re starving. You’re not living in a democracy if your voice doesn’t matter.
Robert you nailed it again! Viktor Orban is being tiptoed around by the European Commission as he openly subverts both its democratic ideals and its Russian oil and gas sanctions. Undermining the US electoral system on behalf of Putin is a pleasure for Orban who was fêted not long ago with a photo opp at No.10 Downing Street by PM Johnson.US democracy is under seige from a combination of big capital and foreign autocrats in a way that the dictators of the 20's and 30's could only have dreamt of.Hungary should be told to leave the EU if it cannot respect its fundamental values.
As a start, to push back against the billionaire class, Dems need to show everyday people, not just tell them, that Capitalism, albeit an effective system for organizing labor for productivity, is not very good at distribution, unless wedded to social democratic institutions which contain its excesses and make it work for all of us. A ready-to-pass piece of legislation that could help drive this point home is the Budget Reconciliation package (BBB). Hence, I would urge Senate Democrats promptly to pass whichever provisions of the package can gain the support of 50 Senators to present to voters as a down payment of more to come if Dems, this fall, can hold the House and pick up at least 2 Senate seats. Were the Senate, now, to get this done, its remaining domestic agenda, in my view, could wait.
The convening of CPAC in Hungary is a blatant demonstration of the GOP’s embrace of authoritarianism and corruption. It is an “in your face” call for America to become a white christian nationalist theocracy, run by anti-democratic strongmen. The election of Mastriano as the GOP candidate for governor in PA is the latest evidence of this trend. Last night a clip was played on TV of him joking with a friend about literally stealing PA’s electoral votes if 2024 didn’t go his way. What’s more disheartening is the vast number of Americans who vote for this….who are just fine with it. To make matters worse, the GOP now owns the Supreme Court. If Republicans take back the House and Senate in ‘22, and the presidency in ‘24, the drive to entrench minority rule through voting manipulation will reach a fever pitch. Billionaires like Thiel and Koch prefer an authoritarian plutocracy, and they would subvert, or outright reject, representative democracy to get it. This is our existential danger. We must not let them win.
Powerful and needed information all. Strange times and our values are under serious assault. A lot here helps explain why in Florida, the legislature and executive branch pay no apparent attention to issues concerning the population but focus on culture wars and trample on the little people. Learning about Senator Rick Scott's blueprint for the future if the GOP regains control should have been a wake up call and huge warning. Don't forget Scott was a large healthcare exec. before he became Governor and while he was CEO his company kept 2 sets of books and was later fined billions. His " i didn't know" defense has now been outlawed. He took the 5th on over 70 questions. When he ran for office, he refused to meet with any editorial board......My way or the highway style.
Believing the “election was stolen” and not being able to prove it, is treason. Those who continue to believe the lie should be banned from running for office, and/or imprisoned.
Rupert Murdock has done more than any other individual to support the Republican Party with his FOX “Not-Really-the-News” and his Wall Street “Urinal.” We peons may not have the resources to “buy” our politicians like Peter Thiel but we CAN use our pennies to protest Murdock’s support of Trump and the Republicans by boycotting FOX and the companies that advertise their products and services on the network. And when I suggest boycotting FOX, I don’t mean just Tucker Carlson and the other ‘talking heads’ I mean ALL of FOX, especially the NFL games. Those of us still connected to cable can also insist FOX be removed, cut the cord if they aren’t. None of us have enough money to influence an election by ourselves, but together we can hit Murdock where it hurts - the purse. We can call our boycott the “Peons Penny Protest.”
The older I get the more I admire the Roosevelts—Teddy for countering trusts that tied up capital and his love of public land (even though he was a trophy hunter); Franklin for his acknowledgment that ordinary people needed government help to survive the Great Depression, and Eleanor for her genuine compassion for humans everywhere. All were born to privilege and all (Eleanor especially) were egalitarian. Today's billionaires are living proof that excess wealth generates insensitivity to one's fellow humans. And while I salute Melinda Gates and McKenzie Scott for giving away most of their divorce settlements, I don't feel they contribute to the political discussion that allowed that wealth to accumulate. The better good would be to regulate capitalism to channel more wealth toward the public good that allowed it to thrive in the first place. That's why the right wants all restraints lifted. But just because you can game the system and mow down those who help you profit doesn't make it just or desirable. I'm for a Brand New Deal!
Are we too late? I know you see reasons for optimism, but I see dominoes falling faster and faster. It could be that my life-long battle with depression is distorting my perspective, and I am now recovering from my second bout of Covid, but from what I've been reading and hearing from a wide range of news sources, I can't see much reason to hope. I have a strong feeling that this trend toward fascism will have to play itself out. It will ultimately fail and democracy will return, but perhaps not in my lifetime. These cycles have been playing out in history forever. We say "never again" until the next generation comes along and thinks they can do it better. We never learn. Humans seem determined to self-destruct. It never ceases to amaze me how an intelligent race can be so stupid.
sigh I personally am not doing well. it appears that many other people in the USA are not doing well, that many, many people outside the USA are not doing well. One way we are not doing well, is we are increasingly living in a world where there are no rules to the powerful, strict although vague rules for the rest of us. Martin Luther King Jr taught that that are arc of justice is long, I am trying to write a book. the process is convincing me that the arc is very long, and at least in the short run bending toward injustice.
i've never understood why an autocratic-ish country like hungary was ever allowed into the EU. they provide nothing of real value to the EU, and they don't like and don't want to adhere to the values that the EU was built on.
The first thing we must understand is that the word "freedom" is context-dependent. Without a context, it is a vaguely defined "trigger word" in common daily parlance - a Pavlovian bell. Without context, it's word for philosophers to debate and not a state anyone in history has actually experienced. If we want to get all "originalist" with it's interpretation, it was freedom from British rule - context. National independence. The existence of slavery at the time should be sufficient proof that it meant little else - context. Yet today, it seems to mean something akin to the anarchy of capitalists - context.
Democracy is a style of governance. Anarchists - by definition - rebel against being governed. In an ungoverned land, the strongest raise themselves to be kings who claim the sovereign right to take from and do to whomever they see fit to abuse - the people they oppress, who aren't strong enough to stand against them. And they >will< make law - they simply won't be bound by it. (Just what we need: anarchists making law they'll not be bound by!) Don't take my word for it. It's written history - from the dawn of time. What do you think plantation owners were if not a self-styled "new world" petty royalty? What do you think plantations were if not petty kingdoms? What do you think the slaves of the Southern plantations thought of their lives as "citizens" of those "free" lands? Note the role of property here - land as property and people as property - the fundamental principle of capitalism.
That's what >I< know about the anti-democracy movement.
We’re living in frightening times. I’m a long time PA resident. I’m totally freaked out that the likes of Doug Mastriano could become our next Governor. It’s time for me to volunteer for Josh Shapiro’s campaign. I’m calling today!
Capitalism, democracy and freedom go very well together, since capitalism was invented as an economic system to promote a congenial society. After the fall of fascism in the last century, America may have come close to achieving such a society (although there were flaws).
Marx misunderstood capitalism because he assumed the proletariat could only wield power through revolution. He should have known better, because in the late 19th century unions were already forming in England and Germany, and women were on the verge of getting the right to vote. Democracy! I suggest Mr. Thiel sits down again and this time actually reads "Wealth of Nations. "
One of the underpinnings of capitalism, as originally conceived, is progressive taxation. Taxes were high during the post-fascist period of Thiel's Germany, and in America....until things started to unravel here with Reagan's "trickledown economics," followed by the gradual descent into the New Age of socialism.
Such socialism is not something Marx would have recognized, because it is welfare for the rich rather than for the common man. Legal tax avoidance is nothing more than government welfare, so Thiel is one of the new Welfare Queens! As a Rand acolyte and derivatives trader, he has done nothing useful in his career other than take advantage of New Age socialism to enrich himself.
How could he possibly recognize democracy?
Capitalism is fundamentally anti-democratic because it promotes the rich, who get richer and richer, while opposing the rights of workers, who have to fight the rich with unions. Capitalist owners hate unions because unions want to force the rich business owners to give workers their due. That’s why Jeff Bezos spends millions trying to keep unions out of Amazon. That’s why Starbucks tries to defeat unions. There’s no freedom or democracy when you see a few rich entrepreneurs owning most of the wealth of this country and not giving a damn about whether or not workers have enough to eat. You’re not free if you’re starving. You’re not living in a democracy if your voice doesn’t matter.
Robert you nailed it again! Viktor Orban is being tiptoed around by the European Commission as he openly subverts both its democratic ideals and its Russian oil and gas sanctions. Undermining the US electoral system on behalf of Putin is a pleasure for Orban who was fêted not long ago with a photo opp at No.10 Downing Street by PM Johnson.US democracy is under seige from a combination of big capital and foreign autocrats in a way that the dictators of the 20's and 30's could only have dreamt of.Hungary should be told to leave the EU if it cannot respect its fundamental values.
As a start, to push back against the billionaire class, Dems need to show everyday people, not just tell them, that Capitalism, albeit an effective system for organizing labor for productivity, is not very good at distribution, unless wedded to social democratic institutions which contain its excesses and make it work for all of us. A ready-to-pass piece of legislation that could help drive this point home is the Budget Reconciliation package (BBB). Hence, I would urge Senate Democrats promptly to pass whichever provisions of the package can gain the support of 50 Senators to present to voters as a down payment of more to come if Dems, this fall, can hold the House and pick up at least 2 Senate seats. Were the Senate, now, to get this done, its remaining domestic agenda, in my view, could wait.
The convening of CPAC in Hungary is a blatant demonstration of the GOP’s embrace of authoritarianism and corruption. It is an “in your face” call for America to become a white christian nationalist theocracy, run by anti-democratic strongmen. The election of Mastriano as the GOP candidate for governor in PA is the latest evidence of this trend. Last night a clip was played on TV of him joking with a friend about literally stealing PA’s electoral votes if 2024 didn’t go his way. What’s more disheartening is the vast number of Americans who vote for this….who are just fine with it. To make matters worse, the GOP now owns the Supreme Court. If Republicans take back the House and Senate in ‘22, and the presidency in ‘24, the drive to entrench minority rule through voting manipulation will reach a fever pitch. Billionaires like Thiel and Koch prefer an authoritarian plutocracy, and they would subvert, or outright reject, representative democracy to get it. This is our existential danger. We must not let them win.
Powerful and needed information all. Strange times and our values are under serious assault. A lot here helps explain why in Florida, the legislature and executive branch pay no apparent attention to issues concerning the population but focus on culture wars and trample on the little people. Learning about Senator Rick Scott's blueprint for the future if the GOP regains control should have been a wake up call and huge warning. Don't forget Scott was a large healthcare exec. before he became Governor and while he was CEO his company kept 2 sets of books and was later fined billions. His " i didn't know" defense has now been outlawed. He took the 5th on over 70 questions. When he ran for office, he refused to meet with any editorial board......My way or the highway style.
Believing the “election was stolen” and not being able to prove it, is treason. Those who continue to believe the lie should be banned from running for office, and/or imprisoned.
Rupert Murdock has done more than any other individual to support the Republican Party with his FOX “Not-Really-the-News” and his Wall Street “Urinal.” We peons may not have the resources to “buy” our politicians like Peter Thiel but we CAN use our pennies to protest Murdock’s support of Trump and the Republicans by boycotting FOX and the companies that advertise their products and services on the network. And when I suggest boycotting FOX, I don’t mean just Tucker Carlson and the other ‘talking heads’ I mean ALL of FOX, especially the NFL games. Those of us still connected to cable can also insist FOX be removed, cut the cord if they aren’t. None of us have enough money to influence an election by ourselves, but together we can hit Murdock where it hurts - the purse. We can call our boycott the “Peons Penny Protest.”
The older I get the more I admire the Roosevelts—Teddy for countering trusts that tied up capital and his love of public land (even though he was a trophy hunter); Franklin for his acknowledgment that ordinary people needed government help to survive the Great Depression, and Eleanor for her genuine compassion for humans everywhere. All were born to privilege and all (Eleanor especially) were egalitarian. Today's billionaires are living proof that excess wealth generates insensitivity to one's fellow humans. And while I salute Melinda Gates and McKenzie Scott for giving away most of their divorce settlements, I don't feel they contribute to the political discussion that allowed that wealth to accumulate. The better good would be to regulate capitalism to channel more wealth toward the public good that allowed it to thrive in the first place. That's why the right wants all restraints lifted. But just because you can game the system and mow down those who help you profit doesn't make it just or desirable. I'm for a Brand New Deal!
Are we too late? I know you see reasons for optimism, but I see dominoes falling faster and faster. It could be that my life-long battle with depression is distorting my perspective, and I am now recovering from my second bout of Covid, but from what I've been reading and hearing from a wide range of news sources, I can't see much reason to hope. I have a strong feeling that this trend toward fascism will have to play itself out. It will ultimately fail and democracy will return, but perhaps not in my lifetime. These cycles have been playing out in history forever. We say "never again" until the next generation comes along and thinks they can do it better. We never learn. Humans seem determined to self-destruct. It never ceases to amaze me how an intelligent race can be so stupid.
sigh I personally am not doing well. it appears that many other people in the USA are not doing well, that many, many people outside the USA are not doing well. One way we are not doing well, is we are increasingly living in a world where there are no rules to the powerful, strict although vague rules for the rest of us. Martin Luther King Jr taught that that are arc of justice is long, I am trying to write a book. the process is convincing me that the arc is very long, and at least in the short run bending toward injustice.
i've never understood why an autocratic-ish country like hungary was ever allowed into the EU. they provide nothing of real value to the EU, and they don't like and don't want to adhere to the values that the EU was built on.
The first thing we must understand is that the word "freedom" is context-dependent. Without a context, it is a vaguely defined "trigger word" in common daily parlance - a Pavlovian bell. Without context, it's word for philosophers to debate and not a state anyone in history has actually experienced. If we want to get all "originalist" with it's interpretation, it was freedom from British rule - context. National independence. The existence of slavery at the time should be sufficient proof that it meant little else - context. Yet today, it seems to mean something akin to the anarchy of capitalists - context.
Democracy is a style of governance. Anarchists - by definition - rebel against being governed. In an ungoverned land, the strongest raise themselves to be kings who claim the sovereign right to take from and do to whomever they see fit to abuse - the people they oppress, who aren't strong enough to stand against them. And they >will< make law - they simply won't be bound by it. (Just what we need: anarchists making law they'll not be bound by!) Don't take my word for it. It's written history - from the dawn of time. What do you think plantation owners were if not a self-styled "new world" petty royalty? What do you think plantations were if not petty kingdoms? What do you think the slaves of the Southern plantations thought of their lives as "citizens" of those "free" lands? Note the role of property here - land as property and people as property - the fundamental principle of capitalism.
That's what >I< know about the anti-democracy movement.
We’re living in frightening times. I’m a long time PA resident. I’m totally freaked out that the likes of Doug Mastriano could become our next Governor. It’s time for me to volunteer for Josh Shapiro’s campaign. I’m calling today!
It should be illegal to donate millions to a campaign. That’s how the rich can run and ruin things. Is this from Citizens United?
The battle lines are being drawn.