Because of your own biases You are still not totally recognizing that most of these protests have been instigated by outside agitators for Hamas who don’t care about the gazans but ultimately want to destroy democracy. I am glad to see you are finally acknowledging a few truths.
I too will state I do not agree with what natanyahu is doing however I am tired of no one holding Hamas to blame for gazan conditions and for lack of a hostage/ cease fire agreement. They are playing games and no one is holding them accountable
This is rubbish. We all hold Hamas’ attack utterly obscene. It’s Israel response, handled by a complete crook & charlatan, acting in his own selfish interest, that we despise & condemn.
Israel doesn’t have a choice. If they don’t destroy the Hamas infrastructure things will return to what they were. This is why they are warning the population and moving them. However, if Hamas doesn’t want to let them go because they prefer to use them, or they refuse because they support Hamas there will be casualties, higher than need be. But this terrorist infrastructure must be destroyed or you leave Israel open to another attack.
Iris, that rejection of the 2-state solution was on both sides, not just Hamas. Israel wants all the land and the Palestinians want the West Bank and Gaza and don't want an Israeli occupier. Who knows what Hamas wants beyond causing havoc, but Netanyahu wants havoc too, but for himself and the power he can accumulate for himself. There is a difference.
Actually it is just the reverse. The Hamas charter, revised in 2018, states that it plans to occupy “all the land from the River to the sea” , which means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. That is exactly where Israel is. And to clarify things even more, the land that the early Zionists occupied was PURCHASED from absentee Arab landowners. The people who lived there did not own the land; they were tenant farmers. The land was for sale. They could have purchased it but they did not. Most of the “Palestinians” living in Gaza and the West Bank never even lived in Israel, unless they are over 75, yet they claim that they are still refugees. Their “refugee camps” are cities with high rise buildings and infrastructure. Hamas has at least $350 million dollars stashed away that it should have been using to develop industry in Gaza instead of building tunnels. Gaza is one of the poorest countries in the world because Hamas made it so.
Occupier? Is that like arguing about who is indigenous? You can't build a mosque on top of a Temple unless the Temple was there first. And if someone wants to claim land they are no longer on because they were displaced, then that applies to both claimants. Talk to the Babylonians.
Israeli pronouncements based on extreme language in Hamas’s 1988 charter portray it as hell bent on the annihilation of Israel. The truth is more nuanced. Hamas repeatedly offered to accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which implied tacit recognition of an Israeli state in between.
Successive Hamas leaders proposed a long-term hudna, an Islamic term for a ceasefire, with Israel, in exchange for a state in the territories seized by Israel in the 1967 war. “The hudna has been a part of Hamas’s thinking since the movement’s founding,” researcher Dag Tuastad wrote in a 2010 research paper for the Peace Research Institute Oslo.
Tuastad documented Hamas offers of a long-term ceasefire in 1988, 1997, 1999 and 2008. All asked for evacuation of the settlements, which are illegal under international law, the release of Palestinian prisoners transferred to Israel in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, and withdrawal to the 1967 borders.
Hamas officials offered to commit to anywhere from a decade to 30 years of peace. Some demanded that the right of return, enshrined in UN General Assembly resolution 194, be addressed immediately. Others said it could wait until peace took hold. All these initiatives were rejected or ignored by Israel and the US.
Hamas were not, of course, innocent peaceniks. They dispatched suicide bombers to Israeli cities and fired countless mortars and rockets at Israeli towns.
Israel assassinated two Hamas leaders, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi, in 2004, shortly after each had proposed a long-term ceasefire. Israel staged a botched assassination attempt against Khaled Meshaal, who now heads Hamas’s political bureau abroad, when he offered a 30-year ceasefire in 1997.
The US and EU parroted Israel’s demand that Hamas recognise Israel and renounce violence. When did Israel recognise Palestine or renounce violence?
Hamas has always refused to recognise Israel, though Henry Siegman, a former director of the American Jewish Congress, wrote in the New York Review of Books in 2006 that he had been assured by high-ranking Hamas leaders that the militants might be willing to recognise Israel if Israel recognised Palestinian rights.
On May 1st, 2017, Meshaal held a press conference at the Sheraton Hotel in Doha to formally announce that Hamas would accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. He also distinguished between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, saying that Hamas’s conflict “is with the Zionist project, not with the Jews because of their religion”.
Again, Hamas’s proposal, which was in line with international law and UN resolutions, was rejected out of hand by Israel and the US.
Ben Hubbard of the New York Times travelled to Beirut and Doha to ask exiled Hamas officials why the group committed the atrocities of October 7th.
Hamas officials told Hubbard they were angered that attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank, where more than 400 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli fire this year, went unnoticed and unpunished. Israeli police raided the Al Aqsa mosque, one of the holiest sites in Islam. And Gaza has endured a 16-year blockade imposed by Israel. They saw Arab countries abandoning the Palestinians to normalise relations with Israel. Palestine was seeping away, and the world was indifferent. Hamas felt they had to do something very extreme to blow up the status quo.
Marlowe, Lara. “Gross diplomatic negligence led to war between Israel and Hamas: Contrary to what Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu says, Hamas is not Isis.” Irish Times, 28 Nov, 2023.
So you're talking about the ceasefires repeatedly broken by Hamas? Such as the one broken on October 7th? Define 'long term' and how long it really lasts. They see a ceasefire as applying to Israel while they re-arm and steal from the Gaza population. And Hamas offering anything with regard to the West Bank, which is administered by the PA is nonsensical. If they got a state, and then attacked, is Israel still expected to sit on its hands? The 1967 borders? With the very narrow waist in Israel?
Israel, aka Zionists, have sought to take Arab land, etc. since the late 1800's/early 1900's. They did the Nakba in 1948, murdering/burning villages, expelling and ethnic cleansing of several hundred thousand of Palestinians from the land they'd lived on four thousands of years. Since then they've militarily occupied Palestinian lands, stolen land from Palestinians, and oppressed them wherever they could, with impunity. If these things had not happened and did not continue to happen, there would not be resistance. There would not be a Hamas or any resistance groups.
According to the latest manifesto from Hamas, the goal is to stop the occupation and oppression of Palestinian lands and Palestinians. It is NOT to "obliterate" Israel.
The only thing that happened in 2005 was that Israel removed settlements from Gaza. They continued with their military occupation which included total control over the sea, air, and land commerce. This means that Palestinians could not exercise control over the details of their daily lives.
Despite this, they built cafes, hospitals, shops, businesses. Perhaps if Israel wouldn't have continued to bomb Palestinians, they wouldn't have had to rebuild so many times.
Benjamin Netanyahu actually funded Hamas in order to cause discord with the Palestinian Authority and undermine the two state solution. Israel did then, and still does now, abhor the idea of Palestinian self determination. The latter is a big reason why the two state solution has not been accepted-yes, it has roots in both sides. The Palestinians do not want to continue with military occupation, apartheid government, and being treated badly. Many if not all of the so called peace discussions gave Israel preferential treatment and did not allow Palestinians a full seat at the table.
Russia most likely helped plan the Hamas attack with US intelligence on Israeli military operations that Trump handed over to Lavrov & Kislyak in 2017 & any additional, updated information Trump got from the top secret government documents he confiscated. Russia is reveling in the fact that international attention has been largely diverted from their brutal war against Ukraine, which thanks to reduced international support for Ukraine, has been turning in Russia's favor; & the civil strife in the US, hurting support for Biden & enhancing Trump's chances of resuming power.
that’s so ignorant. Israel GAVE control of Gaza and WB to the “palestinians” in exchange for peace. They don’t want peace. They have been launching rockets, suicide bombers and pay-for-slay the entire time. Israel- and EGYPT btw was the one who closed th3e border- had no choice but to stop the killing as much as possible without taking over entirely, until they have no choice. Oct 7th did that.
While the Israeli's did remove their settlers from Gaza in 2005, they never gave complete control of Gaza to Palestinians. They still controlled the air/sea/land shipments, all through Oct. 7, 2023. They continued the military occupation, apartheid, and illegal settlements (in the West Bank).
A blockade has been imposed on the movement of goods and people in and out of the Gaza Strip since Hamas's takeover in 2007, led by Israel and supported by Egypt. The blockade's current stated aim is to prevent the smuggling of weapons into Gaza; previously stated motivations have included exerting economic pressure on Hamas.[1] Human rights groups have called the blockade illegal and a form of collective punishment, as it restricts the flow of essential goods, contributes to economic hardship, and limits Gazans' freedom of movement.[2][3] The blockade and its effects have led to the territory being called an "open-air prison".[4][5]
With their disproportinatr response they are creating terrorists faster than they are killing them. Violence begets more violence and will never lead to peace.
And generations to come. Imagine the children who have lost their parents or siblings. Or worse an arm or a leg how can they possibly not have any anger or resentment towards Israel? My guess, Boni has created more urban guerrilla fighters than he’s killed.
Straight from the Israel Times back when the war began, the Israeli government has for years tried to force Abbas out in representing Palestinians because they sought independence. Instead, they used Hamas as leverage to oust that government. Kind of like be careful what you wish for. I don’t blame Israel for defending itself, but they have gone way too far. Let us not forget that this whole war, to the extent it’s been waged, could have been prevented because Israeli intelligence knew when and where the attack would happen, and did nothing.
Exactly....Mossad and Netanyahu knew the attack was coming. But maybe you believe that thousands of Palestinian attackers are very good at keeping secrets, and that months of planning, and movement of weapons (how many missiles?) could go unnoticed
Israel does have a choice. It is called a two state solution and respect for the rights of the Palestinians on the East bank. For as long as they delay the inevitable, bloodshed will be inevitable!
You need to read a little history! Try Khalidi, “The Hundred years’ War on Palestine.” Palestinians have never, in 53 years of negotiations, been offered sovereignty over land, let alone a state. Netanyahu states publicly that there will never be a Palestinian state.
You are so right. I am amazed at the lack of knowledge of the respondents, Their biases are reflected in the comments. Not only Khalidi, they should read Edward Said (NY Times 10 Jan 1999), and the Jewish revisionist historian Benny Morris, "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem revisited" Cambridge Univ Press, 2004. How Israel never intended to keep the Oslo Process, and how the Camp David 2000 was also a process where Palestinians were offered little -- read N Y Review of Books, Robert Malley , 9th August 2001.
I really hope that people read these before shooting off their mouth!
You need to read a little history! Try Noa Tishby, “ ISRAEL: A Simple Guide to the Most Misunderstood Country on Earth”. A very simple history of the whole complicated mess.
How many times has Israel disabled the GIANT settlements in the West Bank to allow for a viable state? {Hint: Never….} They got some settlers out of Gaza a long time ago…. But Israel NEVER let go of controlling Gaza’s economy, and the movement of its people, and its borders.
And especially under Bibi, Israel encouraged building the “facts on the ground” settlements in the West Bank into giant cities with private roads cutting through Palestinian farms and lands, to make it impossible to create a contiguous state.
COME ON — what truly independent and viable state did the Palestinians refuse? Talk about creating a pretense and then holding the Palestinians responsible for “refusing to accept it.” Gad
Marlowe, Lara. “Gross diplomatic negligence led to war between Israel and Hamas: Contrary to what Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu says, Hamas is not Isis.” Irish Times, 28 Nov, 2023.
Israeli pronouncements based on extreme language in Hamas’s 1988 charter portray it as hell bent on the annihilation of Israel. The truth is more nuanced. Hamas repeatedly offered to accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which implied tacit recognition of an Israeli state in between.
Successive Hamas leaders proposed a long-term hudna, an Islamic term for a ceasefire, with Israel, in exchange for a state in the territories seized by Israel in the 1967 war. “The hudna has been a part of Hamas’s thinking since the movement’s founding,” researcher Dag Tuastad wrote in a 2010 research paper for the Peace Research Institute Oslo.
Tuastad documented Hamas offers of a long-term ceasefire in 1988, 1997, 1999 and 2008. All asked for evacuation of the settlements, which are illegal under international law, the release of Palestinian prisoners transferred to Israel in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, and withdrawal to the 1967 borders.
Hamas officials offered to commit to anywhere from a decade to 30 years of peace. Some demanded that the right of return, enshrined in UN General Assembly resolution 194, be addressed immediately. Others said it could wait until peace took hold. All these initiatives were rejected or ignored by Israel and the US.
Hamas were not, of course, innocent peaceniks. They dispatched suicide bombers to Israeli cities and fired countless mortars and rockets at Israeli towns.
Israel assassinated two Hamas leaders, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi, in 2004, shortly after each had proposed a long-term ceasefire. Israel staged a botched assassination attempt against Khaled Meshaal, who now heads Hamas’s political bureau abroad, when he offered a 30-year ceasefire in 1997.
The US and EU parroted Israel’s demand that Hamas recognise Israel and renounce violence. When did Israel recognise Palestine or renounce violence?
Hamas has always refused to recognise Israel, though Henry Siegman, a former director of the American Jewish Congress, wrote in the New York Review of Books in 2006 that he had been assured by high-ranking Hamas leaders that the militants might be willing to recognise Israel if Israel recognised Palestinian rights.
On May 1st, 2017, Meshaal held a press conference at the Sheraton Hotel in Doha to formally announce that Hamas would accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. He also distinguished between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, saying that Hamas’s conflict “is with the Zionist project, not with the Jews because of their religion”.
Again, Hamas’s proposal, which was in line with international law and UN resolutions, was rejected out of hand by Israel and the US. Later that year Donald Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.
Such missed opportunities go a long way to explaining how the war between Hamas and Israel escalated from children throwing stones at Israeli soldiers in the 1987 intifada to the wholesale slaughter of the past five months.
Ben Hubbard of the New York Times travelled to Beirut and Doha to ask exiled Hamas officials why the group committed the atrocities of October 7th.
Hamas officials told Hubbard they were angered that attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank, where more than 400 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli fire this year, went unnoticed and unpunished. Israeli police raided the Al Aqsa mosque, one of the holiest sites in Islam. And Gaza has endured a 16-year blockade imposed by Israel. They saw Arab countries abandoning the Palestinians to normalise relations with Israel. Palestine was seeping away, and the world was indifferent. Hamas felt they had to do something very extreme to blow up the status quo.
This is a well researched post, very helpful to understanding the full context. Especially interesting is your noting the targeted assassinations by Israelis, and the fact that Israeli rejections of Hamas proffers are always joined by the US. Thank you.
The population is screwed with no place to go. How would you like to live like them . Dirty squalid conditions, lack of food, no roof over your head. Hamas will never be destroyed. How many new followers do you think this genocide has created ? Before Oct 7th they have lived in the largest open air prison on this planet.
When Gaza was given back to the Palestinians it was a beautiful place with an airport and infrastructure. I know. I visited the Israeli town of Yammit. It is now called Taba and is in Egypt. Now it is a real shithole if you don’t have money. But if you have money the opulence is crazy. How do some in Gaza live like this while others are starving? Either they are Palestinians with American, Saudi, or other citizenship or they are likely members of Hamas.
“The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip to provide relief to the more than 2 million Palestinians living there.[8] From 2014 to 2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone.[8] According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, aid to Palestinians totaled over $40 billion between 1994 and 2020.[9][10]” Wikipedia . This money went to support the elites and build the terror infrastructure.
It was an open air prison of their own making. Also, Egypt has an embargo on Gaza. The Rafah crossing is controlled by Egypt, not Israel. And Egypt has a way bigger wall on their border with Gaza than Israel does. Why don’t you accuse them of starving the citizens of Gaza?
The double standard is boggling. There is war in Sudan and people are starving and dying, way more than in Gaza, and NO ONE is talking about that.
Gaza was not "given back to the Palestinians". Israel controlled their commerce by land, sea, and air. The Israeli's continued the same military occupation, apartheid conditions, and illegal settlements that they've been doing for decades. Do not blame Palestinians for those things. Israel has done that. Israel and the US.
And where are the Palestinian occupants of Rafah supposed to go?
Egypt doesn't want them.
The present government of Israel and its supporters are trying to restore the Hasmonian Empire " (the Maccabees) of two thousand years ago (Google a map). This is a recipe for conflict and disaster.
And they are. They are specifically sending in ground troops to keep the causalities down. You just don’t hear about it from the news. My husbands cousin hid in Sderot for 3 days. Was placed in Netanya for months in a hotel. Finally went back and the next day Sderot was shelled. Missiles in the north from Hezbullah, but no hears about that. Over 600 Israeli soldiers dead but no one hears about that either.
We aren’t hearing a lot about the IDF ground troops going into Gazan neighborhoods, but I know they are doing it.
AND YET, to preserve the lives of soldiers, Bibi is still bombing the hell out of civilians in Gaza, who are being treated as acceptable collateral damage to the IDF, if not to the rest of the world.
I cannot believe that wholesale bombing is the ONLY option the IDF has to degrade HAMAS’s capacity to harm Israel.
The current choice to bomb from pillar to post isn’t working, is it?
When HAMAS is supposedly driven out … then what? Lately, they don’t even think the leader of HAMAS in IN there!
How does this bombing solve anything? Other than destroying everything in Gaza, how does it solve anything?
I don’t see it. It looks like collective punishment to me, and in the long run, I seems like HAMAS will just relocate and the people of Israel and Gaza will have a much harder time finding a way to co-exist, which is what they have to be able to do, if they will each have a sovereign state.
If I wanted to make that harder to achieve, I’d do what Bibi is doing. Make both sides hate each other …
Then, if they're "keeping the casualties down", why are there 35,000 plus dead, many more still under the rubble? They do not care a fig to keep casualties "down" but instead are committing genocide. They even said they would do this. Those ground troops are sniping and shooting anyone that moves, occupying hospitals, and filling the grounds with hundreds of dead Palestinians.
Yes, I agree. It shocks me how the Israeli military is held to different standards than any other military in history. This is straight antisemitism! Hamas has planned this out to make sure their tunnels are underneath where their civilians live to make it impossible for the Israeli military to target them without killing civilians. Israeli has done more than any other military giving advanced warning to evacuate. Hamas does not care about their civilians. They only use them for their own purposes. If they truly wanted to protect the civilians why don’t they allow them to hide in the 400 miles of tunnels they have created in the last 15 years, but they won’t. Why, because they need them as human shields to make Israel look bad. I am tired of the world blaming Israel for protecting themselves from this evil terrorist group. Hamas needs to be wiped out no matter what. Let’s not forget many Palestinian civilians participated in the slaughter on Oct. 7th. It was not just Hamas combatants.
Do you believe we would have left the Leeward of Gitmo's 20 posts unmanned. How did Hamas get through the fence without being detected. Someone was not guarding or watching the fence.
That is on the Israelis. Hamas should be taken to task but not at the expense of 30,000 Palestinians. That is a riot or what one can claim could be called a pogrom as sponsored by government authorities. You do not get to murder 30,000 people.
The UN should step between Israel and the Palestinians.
As reported in the New YorkTimes Israel intelligence knew about money being funneled in to Hamas and Israeli guards saw Hamas practicing maneuvers to prepare for the October onslaught.
Which god are you calling out? Certainly not a Christian god as he did not promote the murder of the innocent. Do you even know what you are asking for?
I did not blame the victims, the 30,000 murdered by Israel. I did blame the flaw in Israel not guarding their wall and fencing. Why would you do such? This mistake resulted in the murder of 1200 Israelis.
The shame rests with you as you repeatedly try to defend the slaughter and Israels mistake at the bordering wall and fencing.
It’s laughable that we should remember George Washington’s warning about entangling alliances, but here we are. Whatever happened to disregard for the Old World from which our ancestors came? In my own case, my grandparents and parents were happy to disassociate their kids from the centuries-old Balkan prejudices and nonsense. If the USA is so smart in the 21st century, why are we entangled in ancient hatreds emanating from a region of the world so far away?
The world is very small these days. What happens in the Middle East might as well be as close as some college campus or states. Gaza and the West Bank are not so far away anymore. We can get anywhere far quicker now.
This has been going on for years. In 69 we were kept on base waiting the call up to go to Israel. In 70, we were trained in riot control to go to DC JIC.
How does one turn their back on the slaughter? How do you stock Israel up with more munitions when they are used mostly for civilians?
My mom was 100% Italian and first generation in the US. My dad's family ancestors landed at the rock. Or so I was told by my aunts and uncles.
To wit, we are engaged because we can stop the slaughter f we have to do so.
Yes, the world really has shrunk since the 18th century, and the USA is economically tied to the rest of the world (through choice, I suspect, rather than from necessity). Also, on the Army front, I remember reading that the 82nd airborne division didn’t go to Vietnam because it was being held in reserve at Fort Bragg in case it was needed to suppress riots in the USA.
Professor, this is another post that doesn’t bring us any closer to finding a solution or having a meaningful and respectful discussion.
By the way, providing the bombs doesn’t make Biden or the USA complicit. They are not responsible for where the bombs are dropped. And IMO not supplying the bombs isn’t going to stop the military. They will become more determined to act on their own when they feel they are on their own. They will look for new suppliers of weapons if the USA isn’t a reliable source.
Final point, Gaza and this war is not the whole Middle East scene. There is much more that needs to be taken into account. Iran, and the other proxies. Russia in Syria, navigation in the Red Sea. Oil, and much more.
If Biden is being motivated by the protests he is not avoiding the big picture.
The U.S. government has a policy that explicitly says our government will not supply weapons when they are used breaking international law. The Inernational Crimes Court is investigating Israel for crimes against humanity. The bombs that killed the aid workers were American bombs.
34,000+ is Many Lines crossed, too far. Biden sent experts & technology to see the targets, determine if they were civilians or armed Hamas fighters. But it was reported Here by right wing networks that Biden sent troops & weapons to harm civilians. The Instigators are on the College campus, in the House, & in the Senate...
This response totally ignores the grotesque and unimaginably disproportionate destruction of Gaza. No one wants Hamas to survive, but it has to be done another way. Mass killing is no answer to anything whatever the provocation.
Agree. But if Israel/Zionists had not treated Palestinians like garbage for decades, there wouldn't be Hamas/resistance, because there would be no need for it.
Leila, nonsense, of course Israel has a choice! And, where is it the people of Gaza are supposed to move so Israel can continue to destroy everything in Gaza? Hmmm, let's see, back where everything was already destroyed or there is no or. Israel is already starving the people of food and water as well as medical supplies, attacking aid workers and medical personnel, and destroying the lives of the 2 million people who call Gaza home. I can't imagine Israelis being happy if their homes in huge numbers were destroyed as well as their hospitals, synagogues, farms, businesses, etc. as those of the Gazans have and are being destroyed. Netanyahu wants to be seen as a superhero when he has none of the qualities of one. He is a totally self-interested cheat and everyone is suffering, except himself, of course, and that is just the way he likes it.
Israel continues to be shelled from Hezbullah in the north and Hamas in the south. But you don’t hear about that in the news.🤔 Thankfully, the cement that Israel has is used to build bomb shelters not terror tunnels.
Israel does have a solution. More strategic and targeted assault. Like the way we have tried to target ISIS. Like we got Bin Laden. You need to win the hearts and minds to succeed.
Israel tries to move the people and warns them prior to bombing. In addition they send in foot soldiers, endangering the soldiers to save Palestinian lives. You know, Hamas is bad. Everyone should be pro Palestinian and anti Hamas. But this support is now helping Hamas and that is the most idiotic thing in the world.
If Palestinians had their own country via a two-state solution, groups like Hamas would be small and pretty powerless. Why not back a two-state solution to give poor Israel a chance not to commit genocide?
If Palestine was a state they wouldn’t need urban guerrilla
fighters. Hamas is fighting for Palestinian sovereign territory and an end to Israel citizens illegally taking more land from the Palestinians.As a recognized State Palestine could stop the land grabs from Israeli settlers.
You're blaming Hamas while Israel is the terrorist organization that bred and nurtured and financed Hamas for its own political interest. Please don't ignore that there is a history prior to October 7th, and it is one of oppression and dehumanization of the Palestinian people by Israel, the people of Israel (700,000 settlers) and the US. As for "warning he population and moving them," it is apparent that you view the Palestinian people like cockroaches as Israel and the US do.
What are you basing that statement on? For sure there are some protestors who want to see Israel destroyed, but from all of the protests I’ve been to these are the tiny minority. It is clear whose interests it serves to pretend that this is their motivation, or that they are all pawns of Iran….but it doesn’t have any basis in fact.
Wherever there’s a right wing government, there’s either the potential for or the reality of, unjustified aggression. If the USA is inevitably tied to the security of Israel, the the USA should ensure there’s no right wing ascendency. Yes, I know that’s a big order, but otherwise we’re playing with fire.
Bibi & his coalition government are not the only selfish, obscene charlatans. Hamas leadership is also culpable, despicable and deserving condemnation. It wants the world to apply Western emotion to Hamas leadership's strategy of martyring its own people. If nothing else, see 5:48 into CNN Jake Tapper’s November 6th report on “How Hamas frames the civilian casualties of war in Gaza”
Ghazi Hamad, from Hamas Political Bureau: “We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs”
You are right. Israel drove 750,000 Palestinians out at gunpoint when Israel was founded. We need one state with equal rights for all, not one state for one group, culture or religion only.
There is a long history of injustice against the Palestinians by the Western powers since the end of WWII, inviting Zionists and Zionism into the Palestinian Land with utter disregard for the people already living in the land for generations !
The whole arguments based on the distant history is meaningless, because time only flows in one direction and stay in the present, Palestinians had no part in the Exodus of Jews and they found their opportunities and a comfortable life elsewhere !
The Zionists themselves are Europeans in every aspect, they really don’t belong in Palestine and incapable of living in peace with the people in Palestine and the Region, as demonstrated by their behavior since their forced arrival and introduction into Palestine !
The Settler Colonizers amply demonstrated their hostile intent as soon as they set foot in Palestine !
If you ask me, my answer is the Zionists should be repatriated to Europe and Europeans should give them back their land and their homes to continue their lives and leave the Palestinians to continue their lives as well !
Just like customs looking for fruits, seeds and other vegetables and fruits when a visitor arrives at the airport or land borders !
Hostile species are a risk for the native species ! US customs send these contrabands to an incinerator somewhere.,, maybe Virginia ?
It's absolutely correct that the majority of people arrested were not students and were in many cases either paid or professional agitators. Many of those arrested for instigating violence at UCLA, for instance, were ultra-Zionist zealots or violent militia types, to quote from varied reports. It's also absolutely correct that those arrested for violence or property crimes were a really small minority of the total number of protesters, almost all of whom were, in most cases, completely peaceful. Again at UCLA, the non-instigators of violence who were arrested were those who were violently attacked by the non-students and defended themselves.
As a veteran of Viet Nam conflict protests, it's true that most - not all, but most - of the violence and property damage caused during those protests turned out to be done by government agents provocateurs who wanted to discredit the entire protest movement. And the press, quite tragically, went along with that sham, focusing on the small minority who were either violent or destroyed property, and ignoring the vastly larger number of peaceful protesters exercising their First Amendment rights.
The same is clearly happening here, but the minority who were instigators of violence either were largely motivated by religious extremism, were the police themselves, or are GOP operatives or fellow travelers (including Proud Boys types) trying to discredit Biden and the Democrats and discredit any condemnation of Israel's genocidal actions. And the press is showing that it learned nothing from its shameful behavior in the early 70s - it still prefers sensation and controversy to accurate reporting; that increases their revenues.
Please appreciate this little contribution toward remedying your own low information posting.
Evident by the HUGE number of Israeli Citizens that openly protest against the turn in the war against Hamas, at the Costs of the innocents in Gaza & now Rafah.
Those of us who love the true Judaism do NOT want those falsely presenting themselves to the world as "Jews" to be committing MASS murder. This much should be clear in a world not being driven mad.
You still haven't explained how the instigators were agents of Hamas. I have no doubt that there are always agitators in every protest, but the original comment was that they were somehow connected to Hamas, which somehow negates the legitimacy of the honest protestors. So that is the question.
I never said they were agents of Hamas because there is not, at least to date, any evidence that would support that. And why would they be? The encampments were protesting for a cease fire and an end to the Israeli indiscriminate killing of Gazans, and that's exactly what Hamas wants. It's beyond bizarre to suggest that the outside agitators were agents of Hamas, opposing what Hamas wants. Really.
Now that you've posted your little diatribe pat yourself on the back for supplanting your clearly still festering personal and unresolved grievances from your past with a massive yet unsubstantiated contribution that resolved nor addressed nothing. If you truly want to get clarity and own your 'I know more than you' ego, I recommend you read this:
'More Evidence Emerges That Much of the Chaos at the Gaza Protests Is Inorganic and May Be Arising From Non-Leftist Sources'
A rising tide of evidence suggests the problems at the Gaza protests are being caused by three outsider groups associated with Republicans: cops, anonymous agitators and pro-Israel counter-protesters.
Which is exactly what I said. And which is supported by all of the actual investigation into the violence at the protest encampments. And which is not at all what you said in your comment that I replied to. What's your problem?
I love this category of "professional agitator." I know that Donald Trump has more than once paid actors $25 to cheer his speeches. But where do i sign to become a professional agitator? That sounds like a wonderful career!
The violence at UCLA was committed by antiprotestors. I watched the film, they were clearly people that came in and were outside of the tent area. A couple of them had fireworks that they were aiming at the protestors. The cops were right there watching this happen and did nothing. The people who were protesting were students and faculty members. Your narrative is way off the mark.
How long are you going to embrace proven falsehoods to maintain a morally insupportable position? Your allegation isn’t even internally consistent. You accuse the protesters of being “low information” while at the same time calling the majority “outside agitators.”
Though it is true that outside agitators are bringing violence to what begins as peaceful student protests asking that their college disinvest in apartheid….their “continued financial investment in corporations that profit from Israel,apartheid , genocide, and military occupation of Palestine.” By Dalia Faheid, Caroll Alvarado and John Towfighi, CNN. And they are using their free speech to protest what many US and Israeli citizens consider beyond simple retaliation. It is to me nauseating brutality toward any and all occupants, children, the elderly, innocent victims with no way to escape. as well as health workers and reporting in Palestine.
The fact that people like this nonsense proves that Biden supporters are no different than Trump.supporters. Demonizing and beating students to cover up for Biden's crimes and those of Israel's.
There have been very few reports of actual students harmed. But 2 had their photo shared as 34 & 42 year old right wing instigators that fought with the police.
Hamas is a terrorist organization. I think you’re incorrect about no one blaming Hamas for their actions, but I also think it’s wrong to complain about Israel being held to a higher standard. Of course we expect better conduct and more respect for human dignity and human rights from the government of Israel than from a terrorist organization. As the saying goes, two wrongs don’t make a right. And Hamas’ egregious actions are in no way a justification for Israel’s even more brutal behavior
Please where is your basis to state outside agitators are behind the protests. Any normal human being can recognize the disproportionate Israeli response. We are witnessing ethnic cleansing and slaughter of women and children in real time.
🤣🤣 Yeah Hamas can’t leave Gaza without the permission of the Israeli government but they’re on college campuses in the US. You’re reaching. The fact that these kids are tired of tax dollars going to the military industrial complex and their universities are investing in killing innocent people is lost on you. I’m 54. Never have been pro Israel in my life. Never will be. My mother is older than the fake colonial settler project called Israel. She is disgusted by the actions of Israel. Any person that has an ounce of humanity is disgusted by Israel. You’re a biased Zionist. Get over yourself.
In case you missed it, many of the protesters are Zionists. Oppose Netanyahu but support Israel. Want a cease fire.
"Fake colonial" check out Haifa, where Arabs and Jews have lived side by side since the crusades. Same throughout Israel. Same was true of Jerusalem until the Arab Legion/Jordan took the old city. Jews restored in 1967. bout a million Jews in Israel speak Arabic as a first language -- families displaced -- exiled by Moslem countries in 1948. Other Jews speak Farsi, Arab Druze serve in the Israeli army. Arab Party. Arab judges. Arabs in Knesset.
If you want to "check out" the history of Haifa, there my not be a better source than Ilan Pappe. He's an Israeli historian born and raised in Haifa, and who has written several books on the history of Palestine.
Start there and then check out Miko Peled -- born in Jerusalem, to a solid Zionist family. His father was Matti Peled -- a high-ranking general during the Six Day War, and his grandfather was one of the signers of Israels founding document.
You have any problem with American politicians being bought by AIPAC & all the other pro Zionist lobby groups in the US? Like I said, get over yourself. The world despises Israel and its government. The only way they have support in the United States is by buying politicians and spreading lies for decades . 🤣🤣🤣
2. Am. politicians being bought by AUPACX has nothing to do with finding info on Gaza officials are living in luxury in Doha which can easily be found.
A few Hamas leaders live in Doha. WOW!! Now list all the American politicians bought by Israel in the United States living in luxury. You’re aware that the majority of Palestinians weren’t even born or were small children when 28% of Gaza voted for Hamas right? Or do you just regurgitate Hasbara as a trashy Zionist for fun?
Palestine has a dark history of fascist radical Islamism linked to the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, IS, Taliban, HAMAS, Hezbollah and other radical Islamist zealots. Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon have all expelled Palestinians because they bring their chaos and radicalism with them. Currently, HAMAS and Hezbollah are proxies of Iran using radical Sunnis to spread chaos in rival Sunni nations and Israel.
Palestinians are not the innocent victims they are portrayed to be. They initiated the attacks on Israel in 1948 continuing until their last provocation on October 7. How different their fate would be if they had partnered with Israel rather than initiating a failed campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide. There is a repressed, forgotten history here that give more prospective on what is happening today. https://johnhardman.substack.com/p/hitlers-grand-mufti
Please go spread your Hasbara to someone who gives two craps to your gross opinions. Hamas was funded by Bibi. Several quotes by Israeli media have this fact and also ISIS is US & Israeli founded & funded. Not going to read your trash opinions or regurgitated nonsense. I’m not sure who you think you are talking to or fooling. F off already with your lies.
I’m pro humanity, anti oppression/oppressor. Which means I’m anti Israel. I’m pro Palestinian. Anti Zionist. You can cry “Hamas” all day long. I don’t fall for your nonsense.
I'm disgusted by Hamas so willing to use its own ppl as human shields knowing they suffer, knowing Hamas by its attacks on Oct 7th have created this humanitarian crisis and yet they do nothing when they have the power to release the hostages and stop this now.
I think the person meant that outside pro-Palestinian organizations were leading the protests, not Hamas. That is my understanding as well. For example, numerous clips show protesters unable to answer journalists’ questions; then “handlers” step in and take over.
You make some valid points but the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians reflects Israel's history of oppression of Palestinians, and Netanyahu's grotesque indifference to mass murder. The Hamas attack is unforgivable, but so is Israel's illegal taking of Palestinian land and its dehumanizing treatment of Palestinian people, which has gone on for decades.
You may find superior information about the reality there by reading foreign newspapers, especially Israeli ones. For example, Haaretz on 13 April, and an interview with a former intelligence officer who had interrogated Sinwar (Hamas chief). This is what he said. "I said to Sinwar, "Tell me, is it worth it for 10,000 innocent people to die, in order to free 100 prisoners?" The reply was, "Even 100,000 is worth it.""
Netanyahu's quest for revenge is going to lead to that if unchecked, and Hamas will still be there. The entire population of Gaza could be exterminated, and Hamas would still exist. The "debate" in this country ignores what has developed through a long, sordid line of failures ever since the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin (which killed the Oslo Accords to which so many had devoted so much, and which were only a seedling of peace, but a truly promising one that would have grown if it had not been destroyed by that man).
Netanyahu is not serious about anything but preserving his personal freedom. This is understood in Israel. It is understood by former prime ministers and other officials. He is their Donald Trump in so many ways. No serious observer outside of Hamas itself thinks of them as other than "to blame" (that is true also of many, if not most, Palestinians in the West Bank; those in Gaza aren't in a position to voice an honest opinion right now any more than the average Russian can voice an honest opinion about Vladimir Putin). But Netanyahu is the man whose actions determine whether Israelis (including the hostages) have a future, and right now he is damaging that future to the point that "destruction" is not an inappropriate term. Israelis can hold him accountable, and we can hold the country's government accountable.
when I say hold hamas responsible I mean that the world is ignoring that Hamas has been the entity who has refused the proposals for hostage release and for cease fire. Most of the proposals have been agreed to by Israel.
You do make very valid points about Natanyahu whom I deplore. I too strongly hope that the Israeli people finally get him out of office before its too late for all concerned
I don't think our opinions are terribly far apart. I wouldn't say "the world is ignoring that Hamas..." But this is a quantitative quibble. I also know from reading Haaretz "religiously" (metaphor alert - I'm not religious in any way :) ) that Netanyahu and his cronies have sabotaged several potential hostage deals. But there is no doubt that Hamas's leadership is ruthless and will sacrifice without hesitation lives that they consider lesser. They want their prisoners, all (thousands) of them, in return for a small number of hostages and painful concessions regarding disposition of military forces. Netanyahu, on the other hand, wants to look tough and ride that wave to continued power, with no regard for how to actually achieve peace and security for Israel. Their evils are of different forms, but it's getting harder and harder for me to morally differentiate them.
The American protestors, to a very substantial extent, are ignoring the historical complexity and reducing it to brutish and unfair slogans. This unfortunately happens too often in demonstrations (which is perhaps why the only participation I've ever had in one was to put a sign in the window in Frankfurt am Main, in 1969, saying in German and English: "We support the 19 October Moratorium", for which I got roundly chewed out by my superior the next day).
Who says no one is holding Hamas to blame? Of course they’re ultimately to blame. But leveling the territory, civilians be damned, is an over the top response. Thank goodness Biden finally decided to fault offensive weaponry shipments. We don’t need to be involved in this. Who is Hamas anyway? You don’t think they’ve lost lives in all this as well. Israel has show its might. Enough already.
The problem is that HAMAS is responsible for using its own ppl as human shields, hiding beneath them knowing they are responsible for all the attacks and for getting their own ppl killed and yet they don't care.
Hamas is not an ally. Israel, theoretically, is. Hamas is responsible for conditions in Gaza but Israel blocking or delaying humanitarian supplies has to take some responsibility as well.
One would think if Hamas truly cared about its own ppl they would stop using them as humans shields by hiding beneath them knowing they become targets for bombs and negotiate to release the hostages now so humanitarian aid can come...but do they? No...
Two elderly Christian women were murdered by IDF snipers as they walked from the Holy Family Catholic Church to the nuns' rectory in Gaza. Was Hamas using these Christian women as shields?
NYT: “Israeli and U.S. intelligence officers say that Mr. Sinwar’s strategy is to keep the war going for as long as it takes to shred Israel’s international reputation and to damage its relationship with its primary ally”
- In other words, Hamas does't care about our own ppl!
But you can rest assured...US intel indicates Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar in isn’t in Rafah. US officials say Sinwar, Hamas' top leader in Gaza, is most likely in the tunnels under Khan Younis.
- Looks like Sinwar will be captured or killed soon and its ppl will be rid of him.
There's a New York Times article that reports that most of the Hamilton Hall occupiers were indeed students and that the "outside agitators" were everyday people who lived nearby. BTW, I think it fair to say that, in many cases, people's views of the protests are colored by their support for or opposition to Israel's conduct of the Gaza war and probably the extent to which they think criticism of Israel is antisemitic.
Making protestors that are exercising their First Amendment rights to protest a genocide and America's complicity in that genocide, does not at all indicate involvement with Hamas.
I don't see how Hamas is to blame for the genocide, disproportionate civilian casualties, war crimes, starvation, failure to provide adequate drinking water, adequate sanitation, and destroying everything that can be destroyed in Gaza (including the healthcare system), etc etc all of that is on Israel. Regarding a lack of a ceasefire? It is Israel that has turned down proposed ceasefire gestures from Hamas. Several times.
Hamas did make the opening salvo in this present event. War crimes were committed. But Hamas is not responsible for Israel's actions, in Gaza and the West Bank.
Hamas would not even be an issue if Israel treated Palestinians like human beings, didn't steal land, didn't allow settlers to do what they do, and had not done those things for decades.
People will resist occupiers.
Before we call them "terrorists" we need to look at history and the context and assess our own cognitive biases. Post 9/11, many fell for the "angry Arab" and Islamophobia. Instead, we need to consider American policy in the Middle East and its colonial tendencies.
Regarding playing games, look no farther than the extensive propaganda campaigns launched by Israel (directly and via the US government)and the lies which Mainstream Media and Zionists have fed people. It could be said that propaganda is a part of modern conflict, rightly.
But to lean on "Hamas blame" without due consideration and knowledge is disingenuous.
you have your head in the sand my dear and have no idea what genocide and colonial tendencies mean. but everyone has the right to their opinion-which is what your spouting is.
Hamas has done a really good propaganda campaign. You will totally enjoy connecting with them, these non terrorists especially on their belief and treatment of gays, liberal women etc.
And in the world stage I Hope you are as quick to fight for the Kurds who are being annihilated right now
Ever heard of ad hominem? You may have something to discuss, but you'll never get anywhere with personally attacking someone and making some pretty weird assumptions.
This has naught to do with me. But your style does not support you at all, and your words say a lot about you.
Israel has always had far reaching influence on all Americans. Palestinians have had very little influence. And Hamas has only had negative influence because they have always been identified as terrorists by Israel. Let us not forget that Israel exists because the earliest of Jewish advocates for a state of Israel terrorized the British and kept Palestinians at bay. Israelis and Americans have romanticized Israel’s establishment and history to make it a divine state as much as Christian nationalists claim the U.S. is a divine state.
I read your comment about how the Jew advocated for a the state of Israel terrorizing the British and keeping the Palestinians at bay. Really, what history books are you reading. The British did everything in their power from the 1920,s thru 1947 to keep Jewish immigrants out of Palestine. It was so bad that in 1939 when Hitler said to the British, and the world you can take all the Jews either to Palestine or into any other country. The British and the world said no. Of course we all know the results of this decision. Six million Jews died. Prior to the British pulling out of Palestine, they took weapons from the Jews; and not only helped the Arabs with weapons but British pilots flew fighter planes against the state of Israel. By 1939 there were 450,000 Jews and 1,390,000 Arabs in Palestine. Do you know what the original area that was suppose to be for a Jewish state by British mandate and the treaty of San Remo? Do you even care that from 1947 thru 1967 Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza. Do you believe in a two state solutions or do you think its okay with the statement from the river to the sea, which means the total destruction of Israel and all the Jews there and the Arab Israelies as well
You need to get your history facts straight.
I want a two state solution with the US and Arab countries creating that structure making sure Hamas is not in control
Johanna, you have confused a lot of history here. There so many sources of confirming history that you have missed.
What happened to the Jewish people during WWII has been replicated in many ways by many groups and nations able to abuse civilians with impunity. It’s been happening to Palestinians who have been mostly ignored as European Jews were ignored.
“By 1939 there were 450,000 Jews and 1,390,000 Arabs in Palestine.” This number is not far off. But looking back who got the worst deal or treatment if the Jewish people got a state but not the Palestinians? This situation was destined to be the conflict we see today. Who has lost the most lives and land. And still has no state or effective international recognition?
The British National Army Museum summary is confirmed in much more detail in other sources. The Balfour Declaration is an important early promise to European Jews for a state. But you should acknowledge that the British promised Palestinian land that belonged to a large majority of Muslims and a small minority of indigenous Christians and Jews. https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/conflict-Palestine
The San Remo conference was an international meeting held from 19 to 26 April 1920 to determine the allocation of League of Nations mandates for the administration of three then-undefined Ottoman territories in the Middle East: "Palestine", "Syria" and "Mesopotamia". The boundaries of the three territories were to be determined at a later date by the Principal Allied Powers. This was not the basis of establishing a Jewish state.
You left out the Jewish Agency which the British recognized during their Palestine Mandate for governing Jewish communities in Palestine as well as given some authority over Palestinian Arabs and Christians. https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/World-War-I-and-after
The UN got involved with Resolution 181 in 1947. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine However, the transition from the British Mandate to the establishment of Israel involved Jewish militias who bombed the King David Hotel, British Headquarters, used force to drive the British out, and started taking territory, driving Arabs out, about 750,000, from what was being identified in UN Resolution 181. The Jewish militias went beyond these boundaries. Jordan and Palestinian militia held the West Bank, allowing Jordan to control this area until Israel took it in the 1967 War. Israel was to return all territory taken in the 67 war under UN Resolution 242. Israel only returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt. It has occupied, confined and militarized what was to be the Palestinian state ever since. Creating obstacles to a Palestinian state. Israel has never let it happen. Israel controls the river to the sea which includes ALL of the Palestinian land. The Palestinians asking for freedom from the river to the sea does not mean the total destruction of Israel. Israel claims such phrases and support for Palestinians is antisemitism weaponizes these term and makes every effort to address this conflict equitably impossible.
Israel, the most powerful military force in the Middle East, with U.S. support has never lost land by military force that it was originally given. Its losses in personnel, citizens, buildings and infrastructure is a tiny fraction of all Palestinian losses. These are easily calculated facts.
Hamas is the result of more than 75 years of Israel denying Palestinians statehood, security, land and human dignity. The recorded history tells us all of this. Israel has always held the upper hand. No dominant nation using military force to enforce control over vulnerable people has worked out well for anyone.
Joanna, I do not believe that these protests have been instigated by outside agitators. They are motivated by students who are upset at the massive bombing occurring in Gaza. However, “outside agitators“ have been attracted to the demonstrations and have been noted to be present there. This group of students are new to the world of student protest and will need the help of those of us who have experience with movements to help guide them in a proper direction and not be influenced by outside forces. I am all for student utilization of free speech and peaceful demonstrations. I am opposed to outside forces using them for their own ends.
“Most of these protests have been instigated by outside agitators for Hamas…”
Nope. They are students — many of whom are peace activists, including Israeli and other Jewish peace activists— and supported by other long-time peace activists from around the world — protesting Bibi’s behavior and the wholesale death of noncombatants in Gaza.
“…. tired of no one holding Hamas to blame for Gazan conditions and for lack of a hostage/cease fire agreement …”
The people I pay attention to on the front lines of this situation in Israel — Gazan peace activists and Israeli peace activists — hold Hamas absolutely accountable. And they continue to seek and demand the release of hostages. They also hold Bibi accountable for being intransigent and not offering a viable agreement for cease fire and hostage release, and eventually a resolution of the crisis.
American students are more vocal about stopping the slaughter of Gazans, and it makes sense that they are, because HAMAS, while still fighting in Gaza, is not controlling where or when the bombs are dropped.
HAMAS is responsible for creating the circumstances that brought on this current military response — the attack in October brought it on — but Bibi has to find a way to defang and disable HAMAS without the wholesale slaughter of the rest of the people in Gaza.
Saying that HAMAS is “using” civilians as “shields” does NOT justify running roughshod over those people-shields as though they didn’t matter.
Since when does a person become a non-person worthy of being blown to bits just because somebody ELSE is brazenly using them as a shield? HAMAS hides behind innocents, including little children, so it’s perfectly justifiable for the IDF to blow up little children to get at the guy behind them? Nope.
Not in my book.
And the truth is, other countries in the region are trying to help with finding a solution to the situation — Bibi speaks as though ONLY KILLING EVERY LAST MEMBER OF HAMAS, every last partisan and militant in their ranks, will resolve this situation.
That’s ludicrous. HAMAS is a movement as much as an “organization,” and this killing is NOT reducing their numbers, especially not over the long term. They have to be rooted out of having a base of operation in Gaza, and out of being in control of Gaza — but I don’t even know what “getting rid of HAMAS” would look like. We thought ISIS had been conquered, and that’s coming back. Because is it an ideology and a movement, and what’s Bibi is doing is NOT making HAMAS go away any more than ISIS has gone away.
To get rid of these radical groups, we have to stop giving people in the region a reason to joiin them.
Completely disagree. The protests were started and sustained by students and Americans who care about unessessary killing of innocent people. Maybe "outside agitators may have joined the protests for their own purposes, but they were never a majority. Let's not forget outside agitators we're blamed by people like the former governor and presidential candidate, George Wallace, for the civil rights protests in the 1960s which was a complete falsehood.
I do think that the student protests have had an effect on President Biden‘s decision to withhold some armaments from the Israeli defense forces. But more importantly, I see this as a sign of the students finally waking up and realizing that they have power. History has shown, that the strength of protest movements often start on the college and university campuses and then spread to the general population. Personally, I applaud that the students are waking up however, the nation protest movement will need clearheaded leaders and guidance from those of us who have had experience in the past.
It is unfortunate that the national media will train its attention on any disturbances or negative slogans in order to sell more newspapers or get more television advertisers. In fact, some of the media would love to see counter protesters attacking the protesters as that makes for great video footage. This is why mature leadership will have to arise quickly among the protests and the individual protesters.
Student leaders will have to be thoughtful about their "ask": the academic year is at a close, Israel has little left to violate/destroy, & the international community has (it would appear) to have rotated its support - such that America & Israel are in a tiny minority which is against full Palestinian membership in The United Nations.
(Are students worried about the freedom of Palestinians, their own freedoms, or the price of freedom which we'll all continue to pay for the liberties taken by a select few, i.e. in violating international law?)
I don’t believe the student protests had a major impact on Joe Biden’s decision to withhold certain offensive weapons. My sense is that Biden is a man of deep conviction and is doing the right thing because Netanyahu has clearly demonstrated that he has little concern for Palestinian life, a cease fire or putting hostage release as a priority.
Does Putin care about Ukrainian life? What a double standard here! While I’m not a fan of Bibi Israel has had rockets sent to them from Gaza for years and the horrific day of 10/7 was the tipping point. Not to mention the HOSTAGES are still not returned after many offers of a ceasefire!
He POSTPONED ONE shipment. It means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to minimize the GENOCIDE in GAZA. He’s a self admitted ZIONIST. What does realistically expect him to do? 40K SLAUGHTERED including 19K children and all we hear is words with NO ACTION.
According to the Jewish community -- Klal Israel -- that truly follows the Torah, Zionism is nationalist idolatry. One with an express purpose of destroying truly religious Jews.
This is why Zionists would physically assault anyone in Israel they heard speaking Yiddish rather than "modern Hebrew."
Oh, I am sure Biden took the student protests into consideration but he has much larger fish to fry and the geopolitics are much more nuanced than many of the clueless and largely ignorant college students comprehend.
There is also the element of outside agitation and infiltration of the protest groups for political purposes far beyond the fate of hapless Gazans. Biden can't get a break. Trump handed him a hopeless mess in Afghanistan and now Bibi is handing him an even worse mess in Gaza. There is more here than initially meets the eye...
I read your Substack post and find it very interesting, if depressing. I believe that Putin is definitely fanning the flames. I'm sure he knew how Israel would react too. I guess the question now is whether he and Netanyahu planned the whole thing. I also wonder--no, that's too outrageous even for Trump. I was going to say I wonder whether those documents Trump took contributed to it. What a world.
I also think that pulling support from Israel too soon has been a concern with regard to the entire region. It’s not stable to begin with. Iran and Israel have exchanged drone attacks. The Houthis have been attacking shipping. Pulling out support too quickly would send certain signals that could escalate to a regional war. But I think now Biden is prepared to move forward. I hope it works out for the hood. Because it’s awful now, but I don’t see an escalation involving Iran and others improving the situation for the Palestinians. Tragically, they seem screwed any way you look at it. 💔
No the Blatant Murdering of Innocent Children and Civilians by Benjamin Netanyahu with the end purpose of perpetuating his political Life …
The Israeli lobby in the United States has a great deal of influence and money which buys influence. Netanyahu is counting on that influence to let him do whatever he wants in Gaza.
His Troops are On A Revenge Mission and have lost their honor as Soldiers becoming killing Machines.
Biden is Finished Talking Holding back some non selective large area kill radius is the bringing of a detachment from Netanyahu Mad Man Ways…
the Blatant Murdering of Innocent Children and Civilians by HAMAS who uses their own ppl as human shields, hiding beneath them knowing it will kill them is the true genocide...
Are you trying to propose the idea 💡 that because Netanyahu and his government ignored warnings and internal Israeli intelligence and Israeli guards observations Qualifies as a reason to murder Gaza innocents to the tune of 15,000 with American Made 2,000 Lbs Bombs …
Release the hostages , prosecute the irresponsible Israeli politicians and their minions . Get rid of netanyahu.
I stand in 100% agreement. But, I was and am still brought to tears thinking of the dead Palestinian children which I saw on the news yesterday. There's is NO worldly excuse for such. And anyone who could watch the same, void of intense compassion, empathy and sympathy for those killed and their loved ones remaining has no heart or humanity. Those children ARE NOT hamas. A truely strong, virtuistic leader would stop ALL military assistance to such. I don't care the alliance. If Israel needs such assistance to stave off aggression at it's borders, that's one thing. But, such inhumanity by BB has NO viable excuse. Joey B has my vote. But, he would assure himself of more votes getting tougher with bb .
"dead Palestinian children which I saw on the news yesterday." and yet no mention of the children in Israel maimed, tortured, murdered and burned on oct 7th.
We see this over and over again. Maybe the news should post those pictures over and over again...
Yes, I don’t recall seeing images of the children that were murdered Oct 7th either or that women and girls were brutally raped and mutilated on that day and some paraded to crowds of Palestinians cheering Hamas on for what they did.
Also, the hostages have been forgotten. If the hostages were from anywhere else you can be sure there would be protests around the world to get them released. Again, a double standard. Who started this war, Hamas did and many Palestinians civilians joined in on the slaughter on October 7th. You never hear that brought up either.
1200+ does Not equal 34,000+. And more every day. BOTH were/ Still are innocent civilians. The "elite" Israeli military could use ground forces to target the Hamas hiding underground. Remove as many civilians as possible. At Least make a show of protecting the innocent. Hospitals & apartments, encampments where Millions have been SENT for Safety... are not strategic targets for ANY military action.
Who exactly says it was a disproportionate response? Hamas sources, that's who. Furthermore, every single civilian death in this war is entirely on Hamas. They are the ones who created the situation where they would occur. They are the ones who started a war without making a plan to evacuate their own civilians. This wasn't by accident, like, "Oops, I forgot I was starting a war and since I'm attacking Israel from a heavily populated area, I just forgot they might want to take out the rocket launchers that are sending missiles into Israel. My forcing civilians to remain there, even knowing Israel was about to respond in a targeted way to take out these launchers was purely an accident. Oops, I just got my own civilians killed. What to do now? I know, call Israel's response disproportionate and get people all over the world to see me as the victim and Israel as the bully. Thanks fellow Arab countries for all the propaganda bucks. Oh, yeah, and I fogot to procure supplies to prevent hunger during this conflict, because, well, oops just forgot."
Get real, yourself. Israel warns before every single targeted attack in response to Hamas rockets launched at Israel. Hamas keeps civilians in those places, not allowing them to escape, deliberately creating larger civilian casualties. They think it is a noble thing to kill Jews and teach their kids it's a wonderful thing to do, sacrifice your own life in order to kill more Jews. Their grievances are unfounded. They started this war. They are responsible for minimizing their own civilian deaths, but they did the exact opposite and made sure there were more of them.
This so called war did not start on October 7. You seem to have forgotten the blockade of Gaza by Israel and Egypt and where the inhabitants of Gaza came from.
People murdered, tortured, raped, kidnapped, and you're calling this a 'so-called" war? Hamas/Palestine started this war deliberately. They were never the injured party. Egypt didn't want to get dragged into the Hamas terrorist attacks against Israel even back in 1991 when Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade with good reason. If Hamas wanted peace even today, all they would have to do is agree to reasonable terms for a cease fire and release the hostages who have been in captivity now for over 200 days. Our sympathy belongs with Israel and the hostages, not terrorist repressive Arab countries who deny human rights to women and gay people, hurling all kinds of false accusatons against Israel.
I agree our sympathy belongs with the hostages tell that to Bibi he does not seem to care for their well being especially the three who were shot dead by the trigger happy IDF while they were holding a white flag and pleading for their lives in Hebrew. I also care for the thousands of Palestinian hostages held by Israel some are only teenagers. This occurs on a daily basis but somehow the media in the enabling United States does not report it.
If a Palestinian army was doing to Israelis what the IDF is doing to Palestinian citizens
especially women and children I would be among the first o condemn them. It is not a war it is a slaughter.
This was one soldier's mistake, and again, when they make a mistake, Israel admits it. No mistakes would have been made had Hamas not created the situation in the first place. I can't believe I am here defending Israel against Hamas, while others are trying to defend Hamas! They are terrorists who committed barbaric acts and started this whole war claiming what doesn't belong to them belongs to them.
All of my comments are the truth. I still can't believe I have to come here to defend Israel against Hamas or that students are blindly supporting them. Palestine could have started a resistance movement like the French did against the Nazis, instead they are joining Hamas against Israel. That's hate. They are not a democracy. They were not accepted for membership in the UN because of their written stated goal to kill all the Jews in Israel and in the world. Some fool is trying to get them in anyway, but that mission will likely fail because Hamas is Palestine today.
Yes, hating Jews is part of their education and are taught that to sacrifice one’s life to murder the Jewish people is very noble.
Hamas has 400 miles of tunnels why don’t they allow their civilians inside these tunnels because they need them as human shields to make Israel look bad. They don’t care about the civilians casualties. It was part of their plan when they attack Israel on October 7th.
BINGO! Hamas couldn't care-a-less about its own ppl. Using them as human shields or hiding beneath them, then knowing there's a humanitarian crisis happening and all they have to do is release our american and Israeli hostages but nope they refuse....this is the Hamas genocide of its own ppl.
Israel warns before each and every strike. Civilians are not being allowed to escape, Hamas is keeping them there in order to inflate the number of civilian deaths. It is all on Hamas. What is Israel supposed to do? Just let Hamas rockets keep landing in Israel, killing and injuring its civilians, destroying its property? Every single death in this whole unnecessary war is on Hamas. Israel did not take land from Palestine. There was no Palestine to take land away from by the time the Jewish state was recognized by the entire world after World War II. It wasn't brand new, Jews being in Israel, starting then and not before then. Jews have always lived in Israel since centuries before the time of Christ, who was a Jew, living in Israel. In fact there would have been no new Palestinian state, the two-state solution, created had Israel not agreed to do it in an effort to make peace in the middle east. The Arabs keep creating terrorist groups attacking Israel and making claims, so greedy that 22 countries, vast and wealthy aren't enough for them. They want to take slices of Israel, the one and only Jewish state, only about the size of the State of New Jersey. Greed and evil on the part of the Arab countries that have been attacking Israel's right to exist and the Jews right to even live. Israel has tried to make peace, but it's always only been met with more acts of terrorism from those greedy monsters.
Nope. When Israel drops the bomb, Israel killed them. Why did Israel acknowledge killing World Central Kitchen workers as a mistake? Because they were western and it was a political mistake. But when the people killed by the IDF are Palestinian civilians, it’s not a mistake. Instead it is Hamas fault and it’s perfectly fine to make all Palestinians culpable for Hamas. And honestly, do you really think that dropping leaflets with arrows on people who’ve been cut off from food and other basic necessities and telling them to somehow make their way over destroyed roads to someplace with even fewer supplies and destroyed housing is showing concern for civilian life?
That's just another example of how Israel actually does admit it when it has done something by mistake, like the aid workers. (There would be no need for aid workers had the Palestinianas not allowed Hamas to run their country and start a war based upon false sense of entitlement to the land of Israel). They knew in advance what they were about to do. They could have laid in supplies for themselves and for their civilians. The civilians should by now be angry with Hamas for turning them into victims instead of arranging for their evacuation from the war zone, but instead they join with Hamas in their baseless accusations against Israel. It is a war. Civilians should not be in a war zone. It is the responsibility of the attacking country, Hamas's Palestine, to remove their civilians from danger. They choose not to do that just so they can get people like you to see them as the victim. They are not the victims. Palestine is not our ally for a very good reason. They deny human rights especially to women and gay people. They put it in writing that they intend to kill all the Jews. Blatant Nazis, but then when their civilians are killed due to their own actions or lack thereof, somehow the millions of dollars of Arab money buys propaganda as easy to see through as Trump's election lies, but progressives are now backing them? Israel is the democracy here, not Palestine. The Palestinian people have made no move to rid themselves of Hamas or to work with Israel against Hamas, instead they choose to work with Hamas against Israel. Again, Israel owes them nothing, stole nothing from them. That's a lie. Americans support democracies worldwide, not theocratic autocracies denying human rights, with so little regard for their own civilians they actually trap them in areas they know will be under attack because they turned them into a military target.
Jean, I agree with you that hamas uses its people as human shields. i think a better option for israel would have been to approach this as a deconstruction/demolition project. the world and especially israel has known for decades about the tunnels underlying gaza. ground penetrating radar has been around for decades. any fracking company could drill into and release destructve agents into the tunnels. heavy mining equipment shielded by tanks/armored vehicles could have dug up the tunnels. the perimeter of gaza (maybe 70 miles) could have been monitored a lot better for entrance/exits, and then destroyed. but why didn't israel proactively address the tunnel entrances/exits decades ago? these rockets/weapons that hamas has didn't appear by themselves. on the other hand, a people who've been oppressed, dispossessed of their lands/homes for 70 years - well Jean what would you do if someone came for your home and put you in the street? and what of the future terrorists that this trauma will create? this trauma inflicted on these people will last for generations, and create blowback and havoc ad infinitum. war is not the answer. humans should have figured that out by now. but it is profitable, at least for the oligarchs.
Well, here's the thing there. The Jewish people were the historical inhabitants of Israel. Arabs calling themselves Palestinians came along much later. Even some of the more recent ones were from one of the other 21 Arab countries, vast and wealthy, surrounding Israel. Arafat was from Egypt. So no, Israel has not taken anything from them, it is quite the opposite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIBFXbeQwvU
Of all the arguments in favour of Zionist ethnic cleansing this is perhaps the stupidest. There are tens of millions of Americans with Irish ancestry. Does that entitle them to return to Ireland and throw out anyone who moved there more recently? Leaving aside that many Palestinians are likely descended from converts to Islam from the indigenous population (as with Egypt next door) and not migrants from Arabia.
Noticing how "Zionist" is now being used in a derrogatory manner. The Jews have always lived in Israel, It is their homeland. The Arabs have 22 countries, most of them are not democracies, but autocratic theocracies that deny human rights to women and gay people. How is it progreswsives are backing these repressive religious autocracies? They call Israel an apartheid country when Israel includes over 2 million Arab citizens, full, equal citizens, it is democracy while there are many Arab countries with zero Jews in its population, and that is not by accident. The Jews didn't just move there from America, they have always lived there, and many who had no more home after World War II were welcomed back home.
Laying aside the "starting a war" in Oct (which is interesting considering, y'know, historical reality as recently as 2022) - Do you also believe Russia is achieving its goals in Ukraine since we only hear positives for Ukraine from those opposed to Russia? Or do you accept the sporadic updates with videos and personal experiences from civilians there but for some reason that changes depending on the civilians?
and there is the issue! Most ppl here somehow think it's okay to ignore the elephant in the room and pretend that never happen because we must defend Hamas using its own ppl as human shields because.....and thats where they haven't any answer.
I think you kind of over reacted here. Left out by you, either intentionally or purposefully, was that Israeli intelligence knew the time and place of the attack. So, why didn’t they take action? I am not anywhere near a conspiracy type, but maybe that is exactly what Bibi wanted?
They had a lot of information on what Hamas could do to attack Israel, but they had nothing specific enough to have prevented it. They did not have specifics as to time and place, so no, they did not know about it and just let it happen. Perhaps more intelligent leadership than what Netanyahu provides could have been aware that this holiday could be a vulnerable time, they could have done something more, but the fact is, Hamas committed these heinous acts against innocent people, some of whom are still in captivity now going over 200 days. They have no good reason to keep attacking Israel. It's pure hate and it is not based upon any good reason that would in any way justify it.
Professor Reich, you wrote that Biden is a compassionate person and I take that to heart as your words and deeds have shown that you are truly compassionate and a champion of the oppressed and marginalized wherever and whoever they may be. I appreciate your calls for peace and in these almost unbearable times.
Everyone is holding Biden responsible for the killing of more than 34,000 Palestinians in Gaza but NOBODY is talking about what Trump would have done if he were President. Based on his islamophobe behavior he would have allowed Netanyahu to make a huge parking lot of the whole Gaza strip. Why people are so unfair to a decent man and tolerant to a son of a bitch like Trump?
Biden is completely between a rock and a hard place. Damn if he helps Israel and damn if he does not. Even worse, if he shows compassion for the Palestinian civilians being killed, he is then considered pro-Hamas. The bottomline is that those progressive college students protesting against Biden, are going to help elect a nazi buffoon who is NOT going to tolerate any dissent because he is going to become a fascist dictator.
People who have not lifted a finger to try to stop genocide are in no position to lecture others about how to vote. We all need to ask ourselves whether we bear some responsibility for the mass slaughter in Gaza and the ongoing killings and displacements in the West Bank. If, for example, we have not, at a minimum, reached out to the White House to express support for a bilateral ceasefire and a halt to weapon supplies, we are in no position to lecture students who have protested these atrocities at risk to themselves. If enough of us had opposed U.S. complicity in the atrocities, they would have ceased. But most of us just did not care enough to take even the slightest action. How dare people like that try to lecture students about their vote.
I wish the very best for those who have been protesting. There may be a very few outside agitators involved. (It's important to note that in the George Floyd protests in Minneapolis the vast majority of the violence and arson was done by right wing white guys from the suburbs or farther out of town who were either just looking to blow off steam where they hoped to get away with it, or actually hoping to discredit the legitimate protestors.) The vast majority are sincere, however, and simply find 35,000+ Palestinians dead at the blood-drenched hands of the Netanyahu government and the IRD inexcusable (as I do, myself).
I can only hope that those who have been protesting will not follow in the footsteps of my own generation (boomers) where, after the Vietnam War ended, rather than working to change the system which had produced the injustices against which they were demonstrating, they mostly became yuppies and joined the "making maximum money is all that matters" group that's responsible for so much of the evil rearrangement of our nation's economy leading to the massive inequalities we see now.
Meanwhile, a bit of historical research will reveal that the media, especially "conservative" media, web sites, and commenters (and/or trolls), are just using the collection of false tropes they always use in such situations. I hope (probably in vain) that the day will come that when any of us hear one of those same old lies, our response, and that of responsible media figures will be, I'm sorry, but that was proven to be B.S, the last 20 times you used it and it's still B.S. now. You at least need to make up some new lies.
Because of your own biases You are still not totally recognizing that most of these protests have been instigated by outside agitators for Hamas who don’t care about the gazans but ultimately want to destroy democracy. I am glad to see you are finally acknowledging a few truths.
I too will state I do not agree with what natanyahu is doing however I am tired of no one holding Hamas to blame for gazan conditions and for lack of a hostage/ cease fire agreement. They are playing games and no one is holding them accountable
This is rubbish. We all hold Hamas’ attack utterly obscene. It’s Israel response, handled by a complete crook & charlatan, acting in his own selfish interest, that we despise & condemn.
Israel doesn’t have a choice. If they don’t destroy the Hamas infrastructure things will return to what they were. This is why they are warning the population and moving them. However, if Hamas doesn’t want to let them go because they prefer to use them, or they refuse because they support Hamas there will be casualties, higher than need be. But this terrorist infrastructure must be destroyed or you leave Israel open to another attack.
As long as Israel occupies Gaza and the West Bank, there will be a Hamas by any other name.
Israel has not been in Gaza since 2005. Hamas has continued to spend money that should have been spent building a society and an economy, on rockets and tunnels. The 2-country solution has been rejected 5 times (https://africachinapresscentre.org/2023/10/13/5-times-in-the-past-palestine-rejected-offer-to-have-its-state-they-want-israel-out-of-existence/). They don't want a country, they want to obliterate Israel.
Iris, that rejection of the 2-state solution was on both sides, not just Hamas. Israel wants all the land and the Palestinians want the West Bank and Gaza and don't want an Israeli occupier. Who knows what Hamas wants beyond causing havoc, but Netanyahu wants havoc too, but for himself and the power he can accumulate for himself. There is a difference.
Actually it is just the reverse. The Hamas charter, revised in 2018, states that it plans to occupy “all the land from the River to the sea” , which means from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. That is exactly where Israel is. And to clarify things even more, the land that the early Zionists occupied was PURCHASED from absentee Arab landowners. The people who lived there did not own the land; they were tenant farmers. The land was for sale. They could have purchased it but they did not. Most of the “Palestinians” living in Gaza and the West Bank never even lived in Israel, unless they are over 75, yet they claim that they are still refugees. Their “refugee camps” are cities with high rise buildings and infrastructure. Hamas has at least $350 million dollars stashed away that it should have been using to develop industry in Gaza instead of building tunnels. Gaza is one of the poorest countries in the world because Hamas made it so.
Occupier? Is that like arguing about who is indigenous? You can't build a mosque on top of a Temple unless the Temple was there first. And if someone wants to claim land they are no longer on because they were displaced, then that applies to both claimants. Talk to the Babylonians.
Israeli pronouncements based on extreme language in Hamas’s 1988 charter portray it as hell bent on the annihilation of Israel. The truth is more nuanced. Hamas repeatedly offered to accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which implied tacit recognition of an Israeli state in between.
Successive Hamas leaders proposed a long-term hudna, an Islamic term for a ceasefire, with Israel, in exchange for a state in the territories seized by Israel in the 1967 war. “The hudna has been a part of Hamas’s thinking since the movement’s founding,” researcher Dag Tuastad wrote in a 2010 research paper for the Peace Research Institute Oslo.
Tuastad documented Hamas offers of a long-term ceasefire in 1988, 1997, 1999 and 2008. All asked for evacuation of the settlements, which are illegal under international law, the release of Palestinian prisoners transferred to Israel in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, and withdrawal to the 1967 borders.
Hamas officials offered to commit to anywhere from a decade to 30 years of peace. Some demanded that the right of return, enshrined in UN General Assembly resolution 194, be addressed immediately. Others said it could wait until peace took hold. All these initiatives were rejected or ignored by Israel and the US.
Hamas were not, of course, innocent peaceniks. They dispatched suicide bombers to Israeli cities and fired countless mortars and rockets at Israeli towns.
Israel assassinated two Hamas leaders, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi, in 2004, shortly after each had proposed a long-term ceasefire. Israel staged a botched assassination attempt against Khaled Meshaal, who now heads Hamas’s political bureau abroad, when he offered a 30-year ceasefire in 1997.
The US and EU parroted Israel’s demand that Hamas recognise Israel and renounce violence. When did Israel recognise Palestine or renounce violence?
Hamas has always refused to recognise Israel, though Henry Siegman, a former director of the American Jewish Congress, wrote in the New York Review of Books in 2006 that he had been assured by high-ranking Hamas leaders that the militants might be willing to recognise Israel if Israel recognised Palestinian rights.
On May 1st, 2017, Meshaal held a press conference at the Sheraton Hotel in Doha to formally announce that Hamas would accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. He also distinguished between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, saying that Hamas’s conflict “is with the Zionist project, not with the Jews because of their religion”.
Again, Hamas’s proposal, which was in line with international law and UN resolutions, was rejected out of hand by Israel and the US.
Ben Hubbard of the New York Times travelled to Beirut and Doha to ask exiled Hamas officials why the group committed the atrocities of October 7th.
Hamas officials told Hubbard they were angered that attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank, where more than 400 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli fire this year, went unnoticed and unpunished. Israeli police raided the Al Aqsa mosque, one of the holiest sites in Islam. And Gaza has endured a 16-year blockade imposed by Israel. They saw Arab countries abandoning the Palestinians to normalise relations with Israel. Palestine was seeping away, and the world was indifferent. Hamas felt they had to do something very extreme to blow up the status quo.
Marlowe, Lara. “Gross diplomatic negligence led to war between Israel and Hamas: Contrary to what Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu says, Hamas is not Isis.” Irish Times, 28 Nov, 2023.
Those Arab countries that want to normalize relations with Israel don't want Palestinians in their countries. There must be a reason for that.
So you're talking about the ceasefires repeatedly broken by Hamas? Such as the one broken on October 7th? Define 'long term' and how long it really lasts. They see a ceasefire as applying to Israel while they re-arm and steal from the Gaza population. And Hamas offering anything with regard to the West Bank, which is administered by the PA is nonsensical. If they got a state, and then attacked, is Israel still expected to sit on its hands? The 1967 borders? With the very narrow waist in Israel?
Israeli intelligence knew about the money coming in. They also witnessed Hamas practicing for the attack. This was reported by the New York Times.
One has to wonder why they did nothing to stop it. Was it hubris or something darker? Hard to tell.
Israel, aka Zionists, have sought to take Arab land, etc. since the late 1800's/early 1900's. They did the Nakba in 1948, murdering/burning villages, expelling and ethnic cleansing of several hundred thousand of Palestinians from the land they'd lived on four thousands of years. Since then they've militarily occupied Palestinian lands, stolen land from Palestinians, and oppressed them wherever they could, with impunity. If these things had not happened and did not continue to happen, there would not be resistance. There would not be a Hamas or any resistance groups.
According to the latest manifesto from Hamas, the goal is to stop the occupation and oppression of Palestinian lands and Palestinians. It is NOT to "obliterate" Israel.
The only thing that happened in 2005 was that Israel removed settlements from Gaza. They continued with their military occupation which included total control over the sea, air, and land commerce. This means that Palestinians could not exercise control over the details of their daily lives.
Despite this, they built cafes, hospitals, shops, businesses. Perhaps if Israel wouldn't have continued to bomb Palestinians, they wouldn't have had to rebuild so many times.
Benjamin Netanyahu actually funded Hamas in order to cause discord with the Palestinian Authority and undermine the two state solution. Israel did then, and still does now, abhor the idea of Palestinian self determination. The latter is a big reason why the two state solution has not been accepted-yes, it has roots in both sides. The Palestinians do not want to continue with military occupation, apartheid government, and being treated badly. Many if not all of the so called peace discussions gave Israel preferential treatment and did not allow Palestinians a full seat at the table.
While China (& Russia) is backing Israel. Not sure I'd trust any reporting from them...
Russia most likely helped plan the Hamas attack with US intelligence on Israeli military operations that Trump handed over to Lavrov & Kislyak in 2017 & any additional, updated information Trump got from the top secret government documents he confiscated. Russia is reveling in the fact that international attention has been largely diverted from their brutal war against Ukraine, which thanks to reduced international support for Ukraine, has been turning in Russia's favor; & the civil strife in the US, hurting support for Biden & enhancing Trump's chances of resuming power.
And you trust reporting from Hamas?
There WILL be a resistance, for sure …
that’s so ignorant. Israel GAVE control of Gaza and WB to the “palestinians” in exchange for peace. They don’t want peace. They have been launching rockets, suicide bombers and pay-for-slay the entire time. Israel- and EGYPT btw was the one who closed th3e border- had no choice but to stop the killing as much as possible without taking over entirely, until they have no choice. Oct 7th did that.
Are you saying the Palestinians authorized 700,000 Israeli settlers to move into the West Bank and kill Palestinians with the help of the IDF?
While the Israeli's did remove their settlers from Gaza in 2005, they never gave complete control of Gaza to Palestinians. They still controlled the air/sea/land shipments, all through Oct. 7, 2023. They continued the military occupation, apartheid, and illegal settlements (in the West Bank).
Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza and the west bank. Israel left Gaza in 2005. Hamas broke the ceasefire that existed by invading Israel.
Gee, then how did those 700,000 Israeli settlers end up in the West Bank along with all those IDF posts and those walls?
🎯
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
A blockade has been imposed on the movement of goods and people in and out of the Gaza Strip since Hamas's takeover in 2007, led by Israel and supported by Egypt. The blockade's current stated aim is to prevent the smuggling of weapons into Gaza; previously stated motivations have included exerting economic pressure on Hamas.[1] Human rights groups have called the blockade illegal and a form of collective punishment, as it restricts the flow of essential goods, contributes to economic hardship, and limits Gazans' freedom of movement.[2][3] The blockade and its effects have led to the territory being called an "open-air prison".[4][5]
Hasn't kept them from getting rockets and concrete and steel for tunnels, has it?
With their disproportinatr response they are creating terrorists faster than they are killing them. Violence begets more violence and will never lead to peace.
And generations to come. Imagine the children who have lost their parents or siblings. Or worse an arm or a leg how can they possibly not have any anger or resentment towards Israel? My guess, Boni has created more urban guerrilla fighters than he’s killed.
Straight from the Israel Times back when the war began, the Israeli government has for years tried to force Abbas out in representing Palestinians because they sought independence. Instead, they used Hamas as leverage to oust that government. Kind of like be careful what you wish for. I don’t blame Israel for defending itself, but they have gone way too far. Let us not forget that this whole war, to the extent it’s been waged, could have been prevented because Israeli intelligence knew when and where the attack would happen, and did nothing.
Exactly....Mossad and Netanyahu knew the attack was coming. But maybe you believe that thousands of Palestinian attackers are very good at keeping secrets, and that months of planning, and movement of weapons (how many missiles?) could go unnoticed
Bingo!
Israel does have a choice. It is called a two state solution and respect for the rights of the Palestinians on the East bank. For as long as they delay the inevitable, bloodshed will be inevitable!
Hmmm, how many agreements for a 2 state solution have the Palestinians turned down? Many. How many cease fires have they broken? many.
You need to read a little history! Try Khalidi, “The Hundred years’ War on Palestine.” Palestinians have never, in 53 years of negotiations, been offered sovereignty over land, let alone a state. Netanyahu states publicly that there will never be a Palestinian state.
You are so right. I am amazed at the lack of knowledge of the respondents, Their biases are reflected in the comments. Not only Khalidi, they should read Edward Said (NY Times 10 Jan 1999), and the Jewish revisionist historian Benny Morris, "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem revisited" Cambridge Univ Press, 2004. How Israel never intended to keep the Oslo Process, and how the Camp David 2000 was also a process where Palestinians were offered little -- read N Y Review of Books, Robert Malley , 9th August 2001.
I really hope that people read these before shooting off their mouth!
You need to read a little history! Try Noa Tishby, “ ISRAEL: A Simple Guide to the Most Misunderstood Country on Earth”. A very simple history of the whole complicated mess.
How many times has Israel disabled the GIANT settlements in the West Bank to allow for a viable state? {Hint: Never….} They got some settlers out of Gaza a long time ago…. But Israel NEVER let go of controlling Gaza’s economy, and the movement of its people, and its borders.
And especially under Bibi, Israel encouraged building the “facts on the ground” settlements in the West Bank into giant cities with private roads cutting through Palestinian farms and lands, to make it impossible to create a contiguous state.
COME ON — what truly independent and viable state did the Palestinians refuse? Talk about creating a pretense and then holding the Palestinians responsible for “refusing to accept it.” Gad
See my comments above to Hal G -- you are totally correct
Actually Oslo Accords.
Marlowe, Lara. “Gross diplomatic negligence led to war between Israel and Hamas: Contrary to what Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu says, Hamas is not Isis.” Irish Times, 28 Nov, 2023.
Israeli pronouncements based on extreme language in Hamas’s 1988 charter portray it as hell bent on the annihilation of Israel. The truth is more nuanced. Hamas repeatedly offered to accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which implied tacit recognition of an Israeli state in between.
Successive Hamas leaders proposed a long-term hudna, an Islamic term for a ceasefire, with Israel, in exchange for a state in the territories seized by Israel in the 1967 war. “The hudna has been a part of Hamas’s thinking since the movement’s founding,” researcher Dag Tuastad wrote in a 2010 research paper for the Peace Research Institute Oslo.
Tuastad documented Hamas offers of a long-term ceasefire in 1988, 1997, 1999 and 2008. All asked for evacuation of the settlements, which are illegal under international law, the release of Palestinian prisoners transferred to Israel in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, and withdrawal to the 1967 borders.
Hamas officials offered to commit to anywhere from a decade to 30 years of peace. Some demanded that the right of return, enshrined in UN General Assembly resolution 194, be addressed immediately. Others said it could wait until peace took hold. All these initiatives were rejected or ignored by Israel and the US.
Hamas were not, of course, innocent peaceniks. They dispatched suicide bombers to Israeli cities and fired countless mortars and rockets at Israeli towns.
Israel assassinated two Hamas leaders, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi, in 2004, shortly after each had proposed a long-term ceasefire. Israel staged a botched assassination attempt against Khaled Meshaal, who now heads Hamas’s political bureau abroad, when he offered a 30-year ceasefire in 1997.
The US and EU parroted Israel’s demand that Hamas recognise Israel and renounce violence. When did Israel recognise Palestine or renounce violence?
Hamas has always refused to recognise Israel, though Henry Siegman, a former director of the American Jewish Congress, wrote in the New York Review of Books in 2006 that he had been assured by high-ranking Hamas leaders that the militants might be willing to recognise Israel if Israel recognised Palestinian rights.
On May 1st, 2017, Meshaal held a press conference at the Sheraton Hotel in Doha to formally announce that Hamas would accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. He also distinguished between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, saying that Hamas’s conflict “is with the Zionist project, not with the Jews because of their religion”.
Again, Hamas’s proposal, which was in line with international law and UN resolutions, was rejected out of hand by Israel and the US. Later that year Donald Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem.
Such missed opportunities go a long way to explaining how the war between Hamas and Israel escalated from children throwing stones at Israeli soldiers in the 1987 intifada to the wholesale slaughter of the past five months.
Ben Hubbard of the New York Times travelled to Beirut and Doha to ask exiled Hamas officials why the group committed the atrocities of October 7th.
Hamas officials told Hubbard they were angered that attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank, where more than 400 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli fire this year, went unnoticed and unpunished. Israeli police raided the Al Aqsa mosque, one of the holiest sites in Islam. And Gaza has endured a 16-year blockade imposed by Israel. They saw Arab countries abandoning the Palestinians to normalise relations with Israel. Palestine was seeping away, and the world was indifferent. Hamas felt they had to do something very extreme to blow up the status quo.
This is a well researched post, very helpful to understanding the full context. Especially interesting is your noting the targeted assassinations by Israelis, and the fact that Israeli rejections of Hamas proffers are always joined by the US. Thank you.
Great information. Thank you for your comment.
No viable states have been offered
A 2-state solution has been rejected 5 times by the Arab community.
https://africachinapresscentre.org/2023/10/13/5-times-in-the-past-palestine-rejected-offer-to-have-its-state-they-want-israel-out-of-existence/
Please read why. Edward Said NY Times 10th January 1999; NY Review of Books, Robert Malley, 9th August 2001
Oh, boy - you REALLY need to read some history! Please check out the site you have cited!
they tried that and got rockets, suicide bombers and a pay-for-slay society in the “palestinian” territory. Nope.
The population is screwed with no place to go. How would you like to live like them . Dirty squalid conditions, lack of food, no roof over your head. Hamas will never be destroyed. How many new followers do you think this genocide has created ? Before Oct 7th they have lived in the largest open air prison on this planet.
When Gaza was given back to the Palestinians it was a beautiful place with an airport and infrastructure. I know. I visited the Israeli town of Yammit. It is now called Taba and is in Egypt. Now it is a real shithole if you don’t have money. But if you have money the opulence is crazy. How do some in Gaza live like this while others are starving? Either they are Palestinians with American, Saudi, or other citizenship or they are likely members of Hamas.
“The international community has sent billions of dollars in aid to the Gaza Strip to provide relief to the more than 2 million Palestinians living there.[8] From 2014 to 2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone.[8] According to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, aid to Palestinians totaled over $40 billion between 1994 and 2020.[9][10]” Wikipedia . This money went to support the elites and build the terror infrastructure.
It was an open air prison of their own making. Also, Egypt has an embargo on Gaza. The Rafah crossing is controlled by Egypt, not Israel. And Egypt has a way bigger wall on their border with Gaza than Israel does. Why don’t you accuse them of starving the citizens of Gaza?
The double standard is boggling. There is war in Sudan and people are starving and dying, way more than in Gaza, and NO ONE is talking about that.
Gaza was not "given back to the Palestinians". Israel controlled their commerce by land, sea, and air. The Israeli's continued the same military occupation, apartheid conditions, and illegal settlements that they've been doing for decades. Do not blame Palestinians for those things. Israel has done that. Israel and the US.
And where are the Palestinian occupants of Rafah supposed to go?
Egypt doesn't want them.
The present government of Israel and its supporters are trying to restore the Hasmonian Empire " (the Maccabees) of two thousand years ago (Google a map). This is a recipe for conflict and disaster.
They could send ground troops in to weed out the pockets of Hamas hiding within the innocent people.
THEY are being held hostage, too. Blowing up hospitals should have been the line too far.
The Israeli military was supposed to be the best trained in the Middle East, shooting bombs into neighborhoods is not strategic. sorry
And they are. They are specifically sending in ground troops to keep the causalities down. You just don’t hear about it from the news. My husbands cousin hid in Sderot for 3 days. Was placed in Netanya for months in a hotel. Finally went back and the next day Sderot was shelled. Missiles in the north from Hezbullah, but no hears about that. Over 600 Israeli soldiers dead but no one hears about that either.
We aren’t hearing a lot about the IDF ground troops going into Gazan neighborhoods, but I know they are doing it.
AND YET, to preserve the lives of soldiers, Bibi is still bombing the hell out of civilians in Gaza, who are being treated as acceptable collateral damage to the IDF, if not to the rest of the world.
I cannot believe that wholesale bombing is the ONLY option the IDF has to degrade HAMAS’s capacity to harm Israel.
The current choice to bomb from pillar to post isn’t working, is it?
When HAMAS is supposedly driven out … then what? Lately, they don’t even think the leader of HAMAS in IN there!
How does this bombing solve anything? Other than destroying everything in Gaza, how does it solve anything?
I don’t see it. It looks like collective punishment to me, and in the long run, I seems like HAMAS will just relocate and the people of Israel and Gaza will have a much harder time finding a way to co-exist, which is what they have to be able to do, if they will each have a sovereign state.
If I wanted to make that harder to achieve, I’d do what Bibi is doing. Make both sides hate each other …
Then, if they're "keeping the casualties down", why are there 35,000 plus dead, many more still under the rubble? They do not care a fig to keep casualties "down" but instead are committing genocide. They even said they would do this. Those ground troops are sniping and shooting anyone that moves, occupying hospitals, and filling the grounds with hundreds of dead Palestinians.
Yes, I agree. It shocks me how the Israeli military is held to different standards than any other military in history. This is straight antisemitism! Hamas has planned this out to make sure their tunnels are underneath where their civilians live to make it impossible for the Israeli military to target them without killing civilians. Israeli has done more than any other military giving advanced warning to evacuate. Hamas does not care about their civilians. They only use them for their own purposes. If they truly wanted to protect the civilians why don’t they allow them to hide in the 400 miles of tunnels they have created in the last 15 years, but they won’t. Why, because they need them as human shields to make Israel look bad. I am tired of the world blaming Israel for protecting themselves from this evil terrorist group. Hamas needs to be wiped out no matter what. Let’s not forget many Palestinian civilians participated in the slaughter on Oct. 7th. It was not just Hamas combatants.
Leila:
Do you believe we would have left the Leeward of Gitmo's 20 posts unmanned. How did Hamas get through the fence without being detected. Someone was not guarding or watching the fence.
That is on the Israelis. Hamas should be taken to task but not at the expense of 30,000 Palestinians. That is a riot or what one can claim could be called a pogrom as sponsored by government authorities. You do not get to murder 30,000 people.
The UN should step between Israel and the Palestinians.
EXACTLY! Israel let it happen on purpose. It’s all part of Bibi, and the Zionists’ plan to rid Israel of all Palestinians.
As reported in the New YorkTimes Israel intelligence knew about money being funneled in to Hamas and Israeli guards saw Hamas practicing maneuvers to prepare for the October onslaught.
OMG, I can’t believe you are victim blaming! Shame on you!
Lelia:
Which god are you calling out? Certainly not a Christian god as he did not promote the murder of the innocent. Do you even know what you are asking for?
I did not blame the victims, the 30,000 murdered by Israel. I did blame the flaw in Israel not guarding their wall and fencing. Why would you do such? This mistake resulted in the murder of 1200 Israelis.
The shame rests with you as you repeatedly try to defend the slaughter and Israels mistake at the bordering wall and fencing.
As I said…shame the victim.
It’s laughable that we should remember George Washington’s warning about entangling alliances, but here we are. Whatever happened to disregard for the Old World from which our ancestors came? In my own case, my grandparents and parents were happy to disassociate their kids from the centuries-old Balkan prejudices and nonsense. If the USA is so smart in the 21st century, why are we entangled in ancient hatreds emanating from a region of the world so far away?
Stan:
The world is very small these days. What happens in the Middle East might as well be as close as some college campus or states. Gaza and the West Bank are not so far away anymore. We can get anywhere far quicker now.
This has been going on for years. In 69 we were kept on base waiting the call up to go to Israel. In 70, we were trained in riot control to go to DC JIC.
How does one turn their back on the slaughter? How do you stock Israel up with more munitions when they are used mostly for civilians?
My mom was 100% Italian and first generation in the US. My dad's family ancestors landed at the rock. Or so I was told by my aunts and uncles.
To wit, we are engaged because we can stop the slaughter f we have to do so.
Yes, the world really has shrunk since the 18th century, and the USA is economically tied to the rest of the world (through choice, I suspect, rather than from necessity). Also, on the Army front, I remember reading that the 82nd airborne division didn’t go to Vietnam because it was being held in reserve at Fort Bragg in case it was needed to suppress riots in the USA.
Professor, this is another post that doesn’t bring us any closer to finding a solution or having a meaningful and respectful discussion.
By the way, providing the bombs doesn’t make Biden or the USA complicit. They are not responsible for where the bombs are dropped. And IMO not supplying the bombs isn’t going to stop the military. They will become more determined to act on their own when they feel they are on their own. They will look for new suppliers of weapons if the USA isn’t a reliable source.
Final point, Gaza and this war is not the whole Middle East scene. There is much more that needs to be taken into account. Iran, and the other proxies. Russia in Syria, navigation in the Red Sea. Oil, and much more.
If Biden is being motivated by the protests he is not avoiding the big picture.
The U.S. government has a policy that explicitly says our government will not supply weapons when they are used breaking international law. The Inernational Crimes Court is investigating Israel for crimes against humanity. The bombs that killed the aid workers were American bombs.
34,000+ is Many Lines crossed, too far. Biden sent experts & technology to see the targets, determine if they were civilians or armed Hamas fighters. But it was reported Here by right wing networks that Biden sent troops & weapons to harm civilians. The Instigators are on the College campus, in the House, & in the Senate...
This response totally ignores the grotesque and unimaginably disproportionate destruction of Gaza. No one wants Hamas to survive, but it has to be done another way. Mass killing is no answer to anything whatever the provocation.
Agree. But if Israel/Zionists had not treated Palestinians like garbage for decades, there wouldn't be Hamas/resistance, because there would be no need for it.
Destroying the infrastructure means murdering women and children age 0-14?
Leila, nonsense, of course Israel has a choice! And, where is it the people of Gaza are supposed to move so Israel can continue to destroy everything in Gaza? Hmmm, let's see, back where everything was already destroyed or there is no or. Israel is already starving the people of food and water as well as medical supplies, attacking aid workers and medical personnel, and destroying the lives of the 2 million people who call Gaza home. I can't imagine Israelis being happy if their homes in huge numbers were destroyed as well as their hospitals, synagogues, farms, businesses, etc. as those of the Gazans have and are being destroyed. Netanyahu wants to be seen as a superhero when he has none of the qualities of one. He is a totally self-interested cheat and everyone is suffering, except himself, of course, and that is just the way he likes it.
Israel continues to be shelled from Hezbullah in the north and Hamas in the south. But you don’t hear about that in the news.🤔 Thankfully, the cement that Israel has is used to build bomb shelters not terror tunnels.
Israel does have a solution. More strategic and targeted assault. Like the way we have tried to target ISIS. Like we got Bin Laden. You need to win the hearts and minds to succeed.
How is bombing the civilian population to smithereens and starving it winning hearts and minds?
Israel tries to move the people and warns them prior to bombing. In addition they send in foot soldiers, endangering the soldiers to save Palestinian lives. You know, Hamas is bad. Everyone should be pro Palestinian and anti Hamas. But this support is now helping Hamas and that is the most idiotic thing in the world.
If Palestinians had their own country via a two-state solution, groups like Hamas would be small and pretty powerless. Why not back a two-state solution to give poor Israel a chance not to commit genocide?
If Palestine was a state they wouldn’t need urban guerrilla
fighters. Hamas is fighting for Palestinian sovereign territory and an end to Israel citizens illegally taking more land from the Palestinians.As a recognized State Palestine could stop the land grabs from Israeli settlers.
You're blaming Hamas while Israel is the terrorist organization that bred and nurtured and financed Hamas for its own political interest. Please don't ignore that there is a history prior to October 7th, and it is one of oppression and dehumanization of the Palestinian people by Israel, the people of Israel (700,000 settlers) and the US. As for "warning he population and moving them," it is apparent that you view the Palestinian people like cockroaches as Israel and the US do.
ok I can support that feeling. However, many of these student protestors do not make that distinction. And would like to see Israel destroyed.
I do not agree that that is their motivation.
What are you basing that statement on? For sure there are some protestors who want to see Israel destroyed, but from all of the protests I’ve been to these are the tiny minority. It is clear whose interests it serves to pretend that this is their motivation, or that they are all pawns of Iran….but it doesn’t have any basis in fact.
Such BS.
The only things they want to see destroyed is Israeli arrogance and callusness.
I'd be fine if Netanyahu were destroyed. Its time.
Wherever there’s a right wing government, there’s either the potential for or the reality of, unjustified aggression. If the USA is inevitably tied to the security of Israel, the the USA should ensure there’s no right wing ascendency. Yes, I know that’s a big order, but otherwise we’re playing with fire.
Wow! Really?
Bibi & his coalition government are not the only selfish, obscene charlatans. Hamas leadership is also culpable, despicable and deserving condemnation. It wants the world to apply Western emotion to Hamas leadership's strategy of martyring its own people. If nothing else, see 5:48 into CNN Jake Tapper’s November 6th report on “How Hamas frames the civilian casualties of war in Gaza”
Ghazi Hamad, from Hamas Political Bureau: “We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs”
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/11/06/the-lead-protestors-call-for-ceasefire.cnn
You are right. Israel drove 750,000 Palestinians out at gunpoint when Israel was founded. We need one state with equal rights for all, not one state for one group, culture or religion only.
FALSE. IT was the reverse!
Totally agree. Thanks for being concise!
My response is to Adrian
There is a long history of injustice against the Palestinians by the Western powers since the end of WWII, inviting Zionists and Zionism into the Palestinian Land with utter disregard for the people already living in the land for generations !
The whole arguments based on the distant history is meaningless, because time only flows in one direction and stay in the present, Palestinians had no part in the Exodus of Jews and they found their opportunities and a comfortable life elsewhere !
The Zionists themselves are Europeans in every aspect, they really don’t belong in Palestine and incapable of living in peace with the people in Palestine and the Region, as demonstrated by their behavior since their forced arrival and introduction into Palestine !
The Settler Colonizers amply demonstrated their hostile intent as soon as they set foot in Palestine !
If you ask me, my answer is the Zionists should be repatriated to Europe and Europeans should give them back their land and their homes to continue their lives and leave the Palestinians to continue their lives as well !
Just like customs looking for fruits, seeds and other vegetables and fruits when a visitor arrives at the airport or land borders !
Hostile species are a risk for the native species ! US customs send these contrabands to an incinerator somewhere.,, maybe Virginia ?
"complete crook & charlatan"?
What reliable sources have informed you that these protests were instigated by Hamas or their "agitators"?
news reports from ppl arrested showed majority were not students and some were professional agitators.
Your lack of even knowing this is part of the low information protestors issue. Easily fooled with propaganda but big on shouting it to the roof tops.
It's absolutely correct that the majority of people arrested were not students and were in many cases either paid or professional agitators. Many of those arrested for instigating violence at UCLA, for instance, were ultra-Zionist zealots or violent militia types, to quote from varied reports. It's also absolutely correct that those arrested for violence or property crimes were a really small minority of the total number of protesters, almost all of whom were, in most cases, completely peaceful. Again at UCLA, the non-instigators of violence who were arrested were those who were violently attacked by the non-students and defended themselves.
As a veteran of Viet Nam conflict protests, it's true that most - not all, but most - of the violence and property damage caused during those protests turned out to be done by government agents provocateurs who wanted to discredit the entire protest movement. And the press, quite tragically, went along with that sham, focusing on the small minority who were either violent or destroyed property, and ignoring the vastly larger number of peaceful protesters exercising their First Amendment rights.
The same is clearly happening here, but the minority who were instigators of violence either were largely motivated by religious extremism, were the police themselves, or are GOP operatives or fellow travelers (including Proud Boys types) trying to discredit Biden and the Democrats and discredit any condemnation of Israel's genocidal actions. And the press is showing that it learned nothing from its shameful behavior in the early 70s - it still prefers sensation and controversy to accurate reporting; that increases their revenues.
Please appreciate this little contribution toward remedying your own low information posting.
Mass murder of innocent women and children is not a Jewish value.
Neither is defending it.
Evident by the HUGE number of Israeli Citizens that openly protest against the turn in the war against Hamas, at the Costs of the innocents in Gaza & now Rafah.
Those of us who love the true Judaism do NOT want those falsely presenting themselves to the world as "Jews" to be committing MASS murder. This much should be clear in a world not being driven mad.
You still haven't explained how the instigators were agents of Hamas. I have no doubt that there are always agitators in every protest, but the original comment was that they were somehow connected to Hamas, which somehow negates the legitimacy of the honest protestors. So that is the question.
I never said they were agents of Hamas because there is not, at least to date, any evidence that would support that. And why would they be? The encampments were protesting for a cease fire and an end to the Israeli indiscriminate killing of Gazans, and that's exactly what Hamas wants. It's beyond bizarre to suggest that the outside agitators were agents of Hamas, opposing what Hamas wants. Really.
Now that you've posted your little diatribe pat yourself on the back for supplanting your clearly still festering personal and unresolved grievances from your past with a massive yet unsubstantiated contribution that resolved nor addressed nothing. If you truly want to get clarity and own your 'I know more than you' ego, I recommend you read this:
'More Evidence Emerges That Much of the Chaos at the Gaza Protests Is Inorganic and May Be Arising From Non-Leftist Sources'
A rising tide of evidence suggests the problems at the Gaza protests are being caused by three outsider groups associated with Republicans: cops, anonymous agitators and pro-Israel counter-protesters.
https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/more-evidence-emerges-that-much-of
Which is exactly what I said. And which is supported by all of the actual investigation into the violence at the protest encampments. And which is not at all what you said in your comment that I replied to. What's your problem?
While I love Seth Abramson, on this issue he is definitely a biased resource.
I love this category of "professional agitator." I know that Donald Trump has more than once paid actors $25 to cheer his speeches. But where do i sign to become a professional agitator? That sounds like a wonderful career!
It’s good to have goals ‘eh?
The violence at UCLA was committed by antiprotestors. I watched the film, they were clearly people that came in and were outside of the tent area. A couple of them had fireworks that they were aiming at the protestors. The cops were right there watching this happen and did nothing. The people who were protesting were students and faculty members. Your narrative is way off the mark.
What’s the history of ‘outside agitators’? Here’s what to know about the label and campus protests
BY GRAHAM LEE BREWER, ASSOCIATED PRESS - 05/11/24 2:11 PM ET. The Hill.
How long are you going to embrace proven falsehoods to maintain a morally insupportable position? Your allegation isn’t even internally consistent. You accuse the protesters of being “low information” while at the same time calling the majority “outside agitators.”
this doesn't even make sense...
No, it wouldn’t, to someone devoid of critical thinking who would rather spout Israeli propaganda.
LOL!
something tells me you haven't any idea what you wrote either...
Though it is true that outside agitators are bringing violence to what begins as peaceful student protests asking that their college disinvest in apartheid….their “continued financial investment in corporations that profit from Israel,apartheid , genocide, and military occupation of Palestine.” By Dalia Faheid, Caroll Alvarado and John Towfighi, CNN. And they are using their free speech to protest what many US and Israeli citizens consider beyond simple retaliation. It is to me nauseating brutality toward any and all occupants, children, the elderly, innocent victims with no way to escape. as well as health workers and reporting in Palestine.
It isn't simple retaliation, nor is it "self defense". As an occupying power, Israel does not have the oft touted "right to defend themselves".
Outside agitators, and heavy police presence/bullying sure has not helped.
The fact that people like this nonsense proves that Biden supporters are no different than Trump.supporters. Demonizing and beating students to cover up for Biden's crimes and those of Israel's.
Where are your facts to this projection? Interesting how you make huge leaps to incongruous points. Zig-zag.
Thank you for proof of alien life and their choice of Qanon to distribute this knowledge ! As credible as your disinformation theory
There have been very few reports of actual students harmed. But 2 had their photo shared as 34 & 42 year old right wing instigators that fought with the police.
LOL!! crazy people everywhere...
Misinformation
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-student-protests-outside-agitators-116a4d24f006fe5173f265335f37e1d3
See interesting article on both current and historic use of “outside agitators” to discredit college campus demonstrations.
Hamas is a terrorist organization. I think you’re incorrect about no one blaming Hamas for their actions, but I also think it’s wrong to complain about Israel being held to a higher standard. Of course we expect better conduct and more respect for human dignity and human rights from the government of Israel than from a terrorist organization. As the saying goes, two wrongs don’t make a right. And Hamas’ egregious actions are in no way a justification for Israel’s even more brutal behavior
It sounds like your own biases are in play with that assessment.
Exactly. I hate to say it, but both sides share blame here. May this Middle East stupidity stay there!
Please where is your basis to state outside agitators are behind the protests. Any normal human being can recognize the disproportionate Israeli response. We are witnessing ethnic cleansing and slaughter of women and children in real time.
🤣🤣 Yeah Hamas can’t leave Gaza without the permission of the Israeli government but they’re on college campuses in the US. You’re reaching. The fact that these kids are tired of tax dollars going to the military industrial complex and their universities are investing in killing innocent people is lost on you. I’m 54. Never have been pro Israel in my life. Never will be. My mother is older than the fake colonial settler project called Israel. She is disgusted by the actions of Israel. Any person that has an ounce of humanity is disgusted by Israel. You’re a biased Zionist. Get over yourself.
Gaza officials are living in luxury in Doha, not Gaza. "Get over yourself."
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/01/13/while-gazans-suffer-hamas-leaders-live-in-luxury/#:~:text=Other%20Top%20Hamas%20Leaders%20Live,hotels%20in%20Qatar%20and%20Turkey.
Which rather begs the question of why Israel is bombing Gaza, doesn't it?
By the way, you literally posted a Zionist propaganda website 🤣🤣🤣 What a clown show you are. You have zero credibility. None.
In case you missed it, many of the protesters are Zionists. Oppose Netanyahu but support Israel. Want a cease fire.
"Fake colonial" check out Haifa, where Arabs and Jews have lived side by side since the crusades. Same throughout Israel. Same was true of Jerusalem until the Arab Legion/Jordan took the old city. Jews restored in 1967. bout a million Jews in Israel speak Arabic as a first language -- families displaced -- exiled by Moslem countries in 1948. Other Jews speak Farsi, Arab Druze serve in the Israeli army. Arab Party. Arab judges. Arabs in Knesset.
Qatar gives asylum to Hamas murderers and rapists. Was compensating families of suicide bombers. Not an honest broker. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/05/03/us-qatar-hamas-hostages-ceasefire/
If you want to "check out" the history of Haifa, there my not be a better source than Ilan Pappe. He's an Israeli historian born and raised in Haifa, and who has written several books on the history of Palestine.
Start there and then check out Miko Peled -- born in Jerusalem, to a solid Zionist family. His father was Matti Peled -- a high-ranking general during the Six Day War, and his grandfather was one of the signers of Israels founding document.
get over yourself.... you can search and find that info any where.
You have any problem with American politicians being bought by AIPAC & all the other pro Zionist lobby groups in the US? Like I said, get over yourself. The world despises Israel and its government. The only way they have support in the United States is by buying politicians and spreading lies for decades . 🤣🤣🤣
1. wrong john
2. Am. politicians being bought by AUPACX has nothing to do with finding info on Gaza officials are living in luxury in Doha which can easily be found.
3. The world does not despise Israel
A few Hamas leaders live in Doha. WOW!! Now list all the American politicians bought by Israel in the United States living in luxury. You’re aware that the majority of Palestinians weren’t even born or were small children when 28% of Gaza voted for Hamas right? Or do you just regurgitate Hasbara as a trashy Zionist for fun?
History. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
Palestine has a dark history of fascist radical Islamism linked to the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, IS, Taliban, HAMAS, Hezbollah and other radical Islamist zealots. Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon have all expelled Palestinians because they bring their chaos and radicalism with them. Currently, HAMAS and Hezbollah are proxies of Iran using radical Sunnis to spread chaos in rival Sunni nations and Israel.
Palestinians are not the innocent victims they are portrayed to be. They initiated the attacks on Israel in 1948 continuing until their last provocation on October 7. How different their fate would be if they had partnered with Israel rather than initiating a failed campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide. There is a repressed, forgotten history here that give more prospective on what is happening today. https://johnhardman.substack.com/p/hitlers-grand-mufti
Please go spread your Hasbara to someone who gives two craps to your gross opinions. Hamas was funded by Bibi. Several quotes by Israeli media have this fact and also ISIS is US & Israeli founded & funded. Not going to read your trash opinions or regurgitated nonsense. I’m not sure who you think you are talking to or fooling. F off already with your lies.
so you're pro-hamas....
I’m pro humanity, anti oppression/oppressor. Which means I’m anti Israel. I’m pro Palestinian. Anti Zionist. You can cry “Hamas” all day long. I don’t fall for your nonsense.
If you truly pro-humanity than you would denounce hamas for using its own ppl as human shields and stop attacking those that do....
I'm disgusted by Hamas so willing to use its own ppl as human shields knowing they suffer, knowing Hamas by its attacks on Oct 7th have created this humanitarian crisis and yet they do nothing when they have the power to release the hostages and stop this now.
Misinformation
Were the Christian women murdered by the IDF being used as shields ... on the grounds of a Catholic church in Gaza?
You should know this: Hamas Is Known To Use Hospitals, Ambulances, Mosques, Churches And Schools As Shields For Its Military Activity https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-known-use-hospitals-ambulances-mosques-churches-and-schools-shields-its-military#:~:text=Hamas%20Is%20Known%20To%20Use,Shields%20For%20Its%20Military%20Activity
I think the person meant that outside pro-Palestinian organizations were leading the protests, not Hamas. That is my understanding as well. For example, numerous clips show protesters unable to answer journalists’ questions; then “handlers” step in and take over.
You make some valid points but the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians reflects Israel's history of oppression of Palestinians, and Netanyahu's grotesque indifference to mass murder. The Hamas attack is unforgivable, but so is Israel's illegal taking of Palestinian land and its dehumanizing treatment of Palestinian people, which has gone on for decades.
What would "holding them accountable" consist of?
You may find superior information about the reality there by reading foreign newspapers, especially Israeli ones. For example, Haaretz on 13 April, and an interview with a former intelligence officer who had interrogated Sinwar (Hamas chief). This is what he said. "I said to Sinwar, "Tell me, is it worth it for 10,000 innocent people to die, in order to free 100 prisoners?" The reply was, "Even 100,000 is worth it.""
Netanyahu's quest for revenge is going to lead to that if unchecked, and Hamas will still be there. The entire population of Gaza could be exterminated, and Hamas would still exist. The "debate" in this country ignores what has developed through a long, sordid line of failures ever since the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin (which killed the Oslo Accords to which so many had devoted so much, and which were only a seedling of peace, but a truly promising one that would have grown if it had not been destroyed by that man).
Netanyahu is not serious about anything but preserving his personal freedom. This is understood in Israel. It is understood by former prime ministers and other officials. He is their Donald Trump in so many ways. No serious observer outside of Hamas itself thinks of them as other than "to blame" (that is true also of many, if not most, Palestinians in the West Bank; those in Gaza aren't in a position to voice an honest opinion right now any more than the average Russian can voice an honest opinion about Vladimir Putin). But Netanyahu is the man whose actions determine whether Israelis (including the hostages) have a future, and right now he is damaging that future to the point that "destruction" is not an inappropriate term. Israelis can hold him accountable, and we can hold the country's government accountable.
when I say hold hamas responsible I mean that the world is ignoring that Hamas has been the entity who has refused the proposals for hostage release and for cease fire. Most of the proposals have been agreed to by Israel.
You do make very valid points about Natanyahu whom I deplore. I too strongly hope that the Israeli people finally get him out of office before its too late for all concerned
I don't think our opinions are terribly far apart. I wouldn't say "the world is ignoring that Hamas..." But this is a quantitative quibble. I also know from reading Haaretz "religiously" (metaphor alert - I'm not religious in any way :) ) that Netanyahu and his cronies have sabotaged several potential hostage deals. But there is no doubt that Hamas's leadership is ruthless and will sacrifice without hesitation lives that they consider lesser. They want their prisoners, all (thousands) of them, in return for a small number of hostages and painful concessions regarding disposition of military forces. Netanyahu, on the other hand, wants to look tough and ride that wave to continued power, with no regard for how to actually achieve peace and security for Israel. Their evils are of different forms, but it's getting harder and harder for me to morally differentiate them.
The American protestors, to a very substantial extent, are ignoring the historical complexity and reducing it to brutish and unfair slogans. This unfortunately happens too often in demonstrations (which is perhaps why the only participation I've ever had in one was to put a sign in the window in Frankfurt am Main, in 1969, saying in German and English: "We support the 19 October Moratorium", for which I got roundly chewed out by my superior the next day).
Sadly you have a point
Who says no one is holding Hamas to blame? Of course they’re ultimately to blame. But leveling the territory, civilians be damned, is an over the top response. Thank goodness Biden finally decided to fault offensive weaponry shipments. We don’t need to be involved in this. Who is Hamas anyway? You don’t think they’ve lost lives in all this as well. Israel has show its might. Enough already.
The problem is that HAMAS is responsible for using its own ppl as human shields, hiding beneath them knowing they are responsible for all the attacks and for getting their own ppl killed and yet they don't care.
Hamas is not an ally. Israel, theoretically, is. Hamas is responsible for conditions in Gaza but Israel blocking or delaying humanitarian supplies has to take some responsibility as well.
One would think if Hamas truly cared about its own ppl they would stop using them as humans shields by hiding beneath them knowing they become targets for bombs and negotiate to release the hostages now so humanitarian aid can come...but do they? No...
Two elderly Christian women were murdered by IDF snipers as they walked from the Holy Family Catholic Church to the nuns' rectory in Gaza. Was Hamas using these Christian women as shields?
How much lower are you prepared to go?
Let's tell the truth: The two churches in Gaza have been under siege since the beginning of the war. Hamas Is Known To Use Hospitals, Ambulances, Mosques, Churches And Schools As Shields For Its Military Activity. https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-known-use-hospitals-ambulances-mosques-churches-and-schools-shields-its-military
How low will Hamas sympathizers go???
You CAN'T tell the truth. Everything out of you is shit.
Exactly
all right, pipe down...
NYT: “Israeli and U.S. intelligence officers say that Mr. Sinwar’s strategy is to keep the war going for as long as it takes to shred Israel’s international reputation and to damage its relationship with its primary ally”
- In other words, Hamas does't care about our own ppl!
But you can rest assured...US intel indicates Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar in isn’t in Rafah. US officials say Sinwar, Hamas' top leader in Gaza, is most likely in the tunnels under Khan Younis.
- Looks like Sinwar will be captured or killed soon and its ppl will be rid of him.
They have not been blocking humanitarian aid. Even our state dept has confirmed that
You can't tell the truth.
There's a New York Times article that reports that most of the Hamilton Hall occupiers were indeed students and that the "outside agitators" were everyday people who lived nearby. BTW, I think it fair to say that, in many cases, people's views of the protests are colored by their support for or opposition to Israel's conduct of the Gaza war and probably the extent to which they think criticism of Israel is antisemitic.
Making protestors that are exercising their First Amendment rights to protest a genocide and America's complicity in that genocide, does not at all indicate involvement with Hamas.
I don't see how Hamas is to blame for the genocide, disproportionate civilian casualties, war crimes, starvation, failure to provide adequate drinking water, adequate sanitation, and destroying everything that can be destroyed in Gaza (including the healthcare system), etc etc all of that is on Israel. Regarding a lack of a ceasefire? It is Israel that has turned down proposed ceasefire gestures from Hamas. Several times.
Hamas did make the opening salvo in this present event. War crimes were committed. But Hamas is not responsible for Israel's actions, in Gaza and the West Bank.
Hamas would not even be an issue if Israel treated Palestinians like human beings, didn't steal land, didn't allow settlers to do what they do, and had not done those things for decades.
People will resist occupiers.
Before we call them "terrorists" we need to look at history and the context and assess our own cognitive biases. Post 9/11, many fell for the "angry Arab" and Islamophobia. Instead, we need to consider American policy in the Middle East and its colonial tendencies.
Regarding playing games, look no farther than the extensive propaganda campaigns launched by Israel (directly and via the US government)and the lies which Mainstream Media and Zionists have fed people. It could be said that propaganda is a part of modern conflict, rightly.
But to lean on "Hamas blame" without due consideration and knowledge is disingenuous.
you have your head in the sand my dear and have no idea what genocide and colonial tendencies mean. but everyone has the right to their opinion-which is what your spouting is.
Hamas has done a really good propaganda campaign. You will totally enjoy connecting with them, these non terrorists especially on their belief and treatment of gays, liberal women etc.
And in the world stage I Hope you are as quick to fight for the Kurds who are being annihilated right now
Ever heard of ad hominem? You may have something to discuss, but you'll never get anywhere with personally attacking someone and making some pretty weird assumptions.
This has naught to do with me. But your style does not support you at all, and your words say a lot about you.
Israel has always had far reaching influence on all Americans. Palestinians have had very little influence. And Hamas has only had negative influence because they have always been identified as terrorists by Israel. Let us not forget that Israel exists because the earliest of Jewish advocates for a state of Israel terrorized the British and kept Palestinians at bay. Israelis and Americans have romanticized Israel’s establishment and history to make it a divine state as much as Christian nationalists claim the U.S. is a divine state.
I read your comment about how the Jew advocated for a the state of Israel terrorizing the British and keeping the Palestinians at bay. Really, what history books are you reading. The British did everything in their power from the 1920,s thru 1947 to keep Jewish immigrants out of Palestine. It was so bad that in 1939 when Hitler said to the British, and the world you can take all the Jews either to Palestine or into any other country. The British and the world said no. Of course we all know the results of this decision. Six million Jews died. Prior to the British pulling out of Palestine, they took weapons from the Jews; and not only helped the Arabs with weapons but British pilots flew fighter planes against the state of Israel. By 1939 there were 450,000 Jews and 1,390,000 Arabs in Palestine. Do you know what the original area that was suppose to be for a Jewish state by British mandate and the treaty of San Remo? Do you even care that from 1947 thru 1967 Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza. Do you believe in a two state solutions or do you think its okay with the statement from the river to the sea, which means the total destruction of Israel and all the Jews there and the Arab Israelies as well
You need to get your history facts straight.
I want a two state solution with the US and Arab countries creating that structure making sure Hamas is not in control
Johanna, you have confused a lot of history here. There so many sources of confirming history that you have missed.
What happened to the Jewish people during WWII has been replicated in many ways by many groups and nations able to abuse civilians with impunity. It’s been happening to Palestinians who have been mostly ignored as European Jews were ignored.
“By 1939 there were 450,000 Jews and 1,390,000 Arabs in Palestine.” This number is not far off. But looking back who got the worst deal or treatment if the Jewish people got a state but not the Palestinians? This situation was destined to be the conflict we see today. Who has lost the most lives and land. And still has no state or effective international recognition?
You left out Theodore Herzl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl and his 1896 pamphlet “Der Judenstaat”. He is considered the father of Zionism.
The British National Army Museum summary is confirmed in much more detail in other sources. The Balfour Declaration is an important early promise to European Jews for a state. But you should acknowledge that the British promised Palestinian land that belonged to a large majority of Muslims and a small minority of indigenous Christians and Jews. https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/conflict-Palestine
The San Remo conference was an international meeting held from 19 to 26 April 1920 to determine the allocation of League of Nations mandates for the administration of three then-undefined Ottoman territories in the Middle East: "Palestine", "Syria" and "Mesopotamia". The boundaries of the three territories were to be determined at a later date by the Principal Allied Powers. This was not the basis of establishing a Jewish state.
You left out the Jewish Agency which the British recognized during their Palestine Mandate for governing Jewish communities in Palestine as well as given some authority over Palestinian Arabs and Christians. https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/World-War-I-and-after
The UN got involved with Resolution 181 in 1947. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine However, the transition from the British Mandate to the establishment of Israel involved Jewish militias who bombed the King David Hotel, British Headquarters, used force to drive the British out, and started taking territory, driving Arabs out, about 750,000, from what was being identified in UN Resolution 181. The Jewish militias went beyond these boundaries. Jordan and Palestinian militia held the West Bank, allowing Jordan to control this area until Israel took it in the 1967 War. Israel was to return all territory taken in the 67 war under UN Resolution 242. Israel only returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt. It has occupied, confined and militarized what was to be the Palestinian state ever since. Creating obstacles to a Palestinian state. Israel has never let it happen. Israel controls the river to the sea which includes ALL of the Palestinian land. The Palestinians asking for freedom from the river to the sea does not mean the total destruction of Israel. Israel claims such phrases and support for Palestinians is antisemitism weaponizes these term and makes every effort to address this conflict equitably impossible.
Israel, the most powerful military force in the Middle East, with U.S. support has never lost land by military force that it was originally given. Its losses in personnel, citizens, buildings and infrastructure is a tiny fraction of all Palestinian losses. These are easily calculated facts.
Hamas is the result of more than 75 years of Israel denying Palestinians statehood, security, land and human dignity. The recorded history tells us all of this. Israel has always held the upper hand. No dominant nation using military force to enforce control over vulnerable people has worked out well for anyone.
Joanna, I do not believe that these protests have been instigated by outside agitators. They are motivated by students who are upset at the massive bombing occurring in Gaza. However, “outside agitators“ have been attracted to the demonstrations and have been noted to be present there. This group of students are new to the world of student protest and will need the help of those of us who have experience with movements to help guide them in a proper direction and not be influenced by outside forces. I am all for student utilization of free speech and peaceful demonstrations. I am opposed to outside forces using them for their own ends.
Your absolutist language is just not true.
“Most of these protests have been instigated by outside agitators for Hamas…”
Nope. They are students — many of whom are peace activists, including Israeli and other Jewish peace activists— and supported by other long-time peace activists from around the world — protesting Bibi’s behavior and the wholesale death of noncombatants in Gaza.
“…. tired of no one holding Hamas to blame for Gazan conditions and for lack of a hostage/cease fire agreement …”
The people I pay attention to on the front lines of this situation in Israel — Gazan peace activists and Israeli peace activists — hold Hamas absolutely accountable. And they continue to seek and demand the release of hostages. They also hold Bibi accountable for being intransigent and not offering a viable agreement for cease fire and hostage release, and eventually a resolution of the crisis.
American students are more vocal about stopping the slaughter of Gazans, and it makes sense that they are, because HAMAS, while still fighting in Gaza, is not controlling where or when the bombs are dropped.
HAMAS is responsible for creating the circumstances that brought on this current military response — the attack in October brought it on — but Bibi has to find a way to defang and disable HAMAS without the wholesale slaughter of the rest of the people in Gaza.
Saying that HAMAS is “using” civilians as “shields” does NOT justify running roughshod over those people-shields as though they didn’t matter.
Since when does a person become a non-person worthy of being blown to bits just because somebody ELSE is brazenly using them as a shield? HAMAS hides behind innocents, including little children, so it’s perfectly justifiable for the IDF to blow up little children to get at the guy behind them? Nope.
Not in my book.
And the truth is, other countries in the region are trying to help with finding a solution to the situation — Bibi speaks as though ONLY KILLING EVERY LAST MEMBER OF HAMAS, every last partisan and militant in their ranks, will resolve this situation.
That’s ludicrous. HAMAS is a movement as much as an “organization,” and this killing is NOT reducing their numbers, especially not over the long term. They have to be rooted out of having a base of operation in Gaza, and out of being in control of Gaza — but I don’t even know what “getting rid of HAMAS” would look like. We thought ISIS had been conquered, and that’s coming back. Because is it an ideology and a movement, and what’s Bibi is doing is NOT making HAMAS go away any more than ISIS has gone away.
To get rid of these radical groups, we have to stop giving people in the region a reason to joiin them.
Completely disagree. The protests were started and sustained by students and Americans who care about unessessary killing of innocent people. Maybe "outside agitators may have joined the protests for their own purposes, but they were never a majority. Let's not forget outside agitators we're blamed by people like the former governor and presidential candidate, George Wallace, for the civil rights protests in the 1960s which was a complete falsehood.
That’s fine you go on believing that
I do think that the student protests have had an effect on President Biden‘s decision to withhold some armaments from the Israeli defense forces. But more importantly, I see this as a sign of the students finally waking up and realizing that they have power. History has shown, that the strength of protest movements often start on the college and university campuses and then spread to the general population. Personally, I applaud that the students are waking up however, the nation protest movement will need clearheaded leaders and guidance from those of us who have had experience in the past.
It is unfortunate that the national media will train its attention on any disturbances or negative slogans in order to sell more newspapers or get more television advertisers. In fact, some of the media would love to see counter protesters attacking the protesters as that makes for great video footage. This is why mature leadership will have to arise quickly among the protests and the individual protesters.
Trouble is, we don’t seem to learn lessons from our past.
Student leaders will have to be thoughtful about their "ask": the academic year is at a close, Israel has little left to violate/destroy, & the international community has (it would appear) to have rotated its support - such that America & Israel are in a tiny minority which is against full Palestinian membership in The United Nations.
(Are students worried about the freedom of Palestinians, their own freedoms, or the price of freedom which we'll all continue to pay for the liberties taken by a select few, i.e. in violating international law?)
This is really delusional,
Biden has stock piled plenty of WMD in the Zionist occupied enclaves of Palestine long time back !
Then, there are others including Europeans and even Indians !
Huh? Elaborate.
I don’t believe the student protests had a major impact on Joe Biden’s decision to withhold certain offensive weapons. My sense is that Biden is a man of deep conviction and is doing the right thing because Netanyahu has clearly demonstrated that he has little concern for Palestinian life, a cease fire or putting hostage release as a priority.
The fact that students think Biden is so easily swayed by a few hundred protestors shows their lack of assessment and judgment...
That was clear some time ago though.
Does Putin care about Ukrainian life? What a double standard here! While I’m not a fan of Bibi Israel has had rockets sent to them from Gaza for years and the horrific day of 10/7 was the tipping point. Not to mention the HOSTAGES are still not returned after many offers of a ceasefire!
Nonviolent direct action is one of the most effective forces for change. We know that. Thank u to those who have been participating in that action.
Problem is, not all of it is nonviolent.
Professor, I think you have put current student protests in historical context in a balanced way. Thank you.
The protests highlighted a moral redline and he could not ignore it.
He POSTPONED ONE shipment. It means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to minimize the GENOCIDE in GAZA. He’s a self admitted ZIONIST. What does realistically expect him to do? 40K SLAUGHTERED including 19K children and all we hear is words with NO ACTION.
Yeah. He’s believes in Israel’s right to exist so if that = Zionism how is that a bad thing?
According to the Jewish community -- Klal Israel -- that truly follows the Torah, Zionism is nationalist idolatry. One with an express purpose of destroying truly religious Jews.
This is why Zionists would physically assault anyone in Israel they heard speaking Yiddish rather than "modern Hebrew."
Your capital letters do not help your message. It appears that you are shouting at or lecturing us, and many will just ignore you.
Critiquing the font or the message?
Whoever thought that, with Times New Roman, you could get your choice of style *and* critique-
= D
(Thank you, thank you...)
When you're a Zionist, you can commit mass murder. When you go against Zionism, you'd better select the right font.
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step-"
Oh, I am sure Biden took the student protests into consideration but he has much larger fish to fry and the geopolitics are much more nuanced than many of the clueless and largely ignorant college students comprehend.
There is also the element of outside agitation and infiltration of the protest groups for political purposes far beyond the fate of hapless Gazans. Biden can't get a break. Trump handed him a hopeless mess in Afghanistan and now Bibi is handing him an even worse mess in Gaza. There is more here than initially meets the eye...
https://johnhardman.substack.com/p/campus-protest-intrigue
I read your Substack post and find it very interesting, if depressing. I believe that Putin is definitely fanning the flames. I'm sure he knew how Israel would react too. I guess the question now is whether he and Netanyahu planned the whole thing. I also wonder--no, that's too outrageous even for Trump. I was going to say I wonder whether those documents Trump took contributed to it. What a world.
I also think that pulling support from Israel too soon has been a concern with regard to the entire region. It’s not stable to begin with. Iran and Israel have exchanged drone attacks. The Houthis have been attacking shipping. Pulling out support too quickly would send certain signals that could escalate to a regional war. But I think now Biden is prepared to move forward. I hope it works out for the hood. Because it’s awful now, but I don’t see an escalation involving Iran and others improving the situation for the Palestinians. Tragically, they seem screwed any way you look at it. 💔
No the Blatant Murdering of Innocent Children and Civilians by Benjamin Netanyahu with the end purpose of perpetuating his political Life …
The Israeli lobby in the United States has a great deal of influence and money which buys influence. Netanyahu is counting on that influence to let him do whatever he wants in Gaza.
His Troops are On A Revenge Mission and have lost their honor as Soldiers becoming killing Machines.
Biden is Finished Talking Holding back some non selective large area kill radius is the bringing of a detachment from Netanyahu Mad Man Ways…
the Blatant Murdering of Innocent Children and Civilians by HAMAS who uses their own ppl as human shields, hiding beneath them knowing it will kill them is the true genocide...
RELEASE THE HOSTAGES NOW.
Are you trying to propose the idea 💡 that because Netanyahu and his government ignored warnings and internal Israeli intelligence and Israeli guards observations Qualifies as a reason to murder Gaza innocents to the tune of 15,000 with American Made 2,000 Lbs Bombs …
Release the hostages , prosecute the irresponsible Israeli politicians and their minions . Get rid of netanyahu.
Misinformed
Beginning
I stand in 100% agreement. But, I was and am still brought to tears thinking of the dead Palestinian children which I saw on the news yesterday. There's is NO worldly excuse for such. And anyone who could watch the same, void of intense compassion, empathy and sympathy for those killed and their loved ones remaining has no heart or humanity. Those children ARE NOT hamas. A truely strong, virtuistic leader would stop ALL military assistance to such. I don't care the alliance. If Israel needs such assistance to stave off aggression at it's borders, that's one thing. But, such inhumanity by BB has NO viable excuse. Joey B has my vote. But, he would assure himself of more votes getting tougher with bb .
"dead Palestinian children which I saw on the news yesterday." and yet no mention of the children in Israel maimed, tortured, murdered and burned on oct 7th.
We see this over and over again. Maybe the news should post those pictures over and over again...
Yes, I don’t recall seeing images of the children that were murdered Oct 7th either or that women and girls were brutally raped and mutilated on that day and some paraded to crowds of Palestinians cheering Hamas on for what they did.
Also, the hostages have been forgotten. If the hostages were from anywhere else you can be sure there would be protests around the world to get them released. Again, a double standard. Who started this war, Hamas did and many Palestinians civilians joined in on the slaughter on October 7th. You never hear that brought up either.
1200+ does Not equal 34,000+. And more every day. BOTH were/ Still are innocent civilians. The "elite" Israeli military could use ground forces to target the Hamas hiding underground. Remove as many civilians as possible. At Least make a show of protecting the innocent. Hospitals & apartments, encampments where Millions have been SENT for Safety... are not strategic targets for ANY military action.
And how many innocent Palestinians equals one innocent Israeli ? Two wrongs don't make right .
Who exactly says it was a disproportionate response? Hamas sources, that's who. Furthermore, every single civilian death in this war is entirely on Hamas. They are the ones who created the situation where they would occur. They are the ones who started a war without making a plan to evacuate their own civilians. This wasn't by accident, like, "Oops, I forgot I was starting a war and since I'm attacking Israel from a heavily populated area, I just forgot they might want to take out the rocket launchers that are sending missiles into Israel. My forcing civilians to remain there, even knowing Israel was about to respond in a targeted way to take out these launchers was purely an accident. Oops, I just got my own civilians killed. What to do now? I know, call Israel's response disproportionate and get people all over the world to see me as the victim and Israel as the bully. Thanks fellow Arab countries for all the propaganda bucks. Oh, yeah, and I fogot to procure supplies to prevent hunger during this conflict, because, well, oops just forgot."
So Hamas is piloting Israeli planes and bombing women and children. Get real.
Get real, yourself. Israel warns before every single targeted attack in response to Hamas rockets launched at Israel. Hamas keeps civilians in those places, not allowing them to escape, deliberately creating larger civilian casualties. They think it is a noble thing to kill Jews and teach their kids it's a wonderful thing to do, sacrifice your own life in order to kill more Jews. Their grievances are unfounded. They started this war. They are responsible for minimizing their own civilian deaths, but they did the exact opposite and made sure there were more of them.
This so called war did not start on October 7. You seem to have forgotten the blockade of Gaza by Israel and Egypt and where the inhabitants of Gaza came from.
People murdered, tortured, raped, kidnapped, and you're calling this a 'so-called" war? Hamas/Palestine started this war deliberately. They were never the injured party. Egypt didn't want to get dragged into the Hamas terrorist attacks against Israel even back in 1991 when Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade with good reason. If Hamas wanted peace even today, all they would have to do is agree to reasonable terms for a cease fire and release the hostages who have been in captivity now for over 200 days. Our sympathy belongs with Israel and the hostages, not terrorist repressive Arab countries who deny human rights to women and gay people, hurling all kinds of false accusatons against Israel.
I agree our sympathy belongs with the hostages tell that to Bibi he does not seem to care for their well being especially the three who were shot dead by the trigger happy IDF while they were holding a white flag and pleading for their lives in Hebrew. I also care for the thousands of Palestinian hostages held by Israel some are only teenagers. This occurs on a daily basis but somehow the media in the enabling United States does not report it.
If a Palestinian army was doing to Israelis what the IDF is doing to Palestinian citizens
especially women and children I would be among the first o condemn them. It is not a war it is a slaughter.
This was one soldier's mistake, and again, when they make a mistake, Israel admits it. No mistakes would have been made had Hamas not created the situation in the first place. I can't believe I am here defending Israel against Hamas, while others are trying to defend Hamas! They are terrorists who committed barbaric acts and started this whole war claiming what doesn't belong to them belongs to them.
Your comment is misinformation
All of my comments are the truth. I still can't believe I have to come here to defend Israel against Hamas or that students are blindly supporting them. Palestine could have started a resistance movement like the French did against the Nazis, instead they are joining Hamas against Israel. That's hate. They are not a democracy. They were not accepted for membership in the UN because of their written stated goal to kill all the Jews in Israel and in the world. Some fool is trying to get them in anyway, but that mission will likely fail because Hamas is Palestine today.
Yes, hating Jews is part of their education and are taught that to sacrifice one’s life to murder the Jewish people is very noble.
Hamas has 400 miles of tunnels why don’t they allow their civilians inside these tunnels because they need them as human shields to make Israel look bad. They don’t care about the civilians casualties. It was part of their plan when they attack Israel on October 7th.
BINGO! Hamas couldn't care-a-less about its own ppl. Using them as human shields or hiding beneath them, then knowing there's a humanitarian crisis happening and all they have to do is release our american and Israeli hostages but nope they refuse....this is the Hamas genocide of its own ppl.
No, it’s not. Israel is responsible for Israel’s actions. The devil made me do it has never held up in court
Israel warns before each and every strike. Civilians are not being allowed to escape, Hamas is keeping them there in order to inflate the number of civilian deaths. It is all on Hamas. What is Israel supposed to do? Just let Hamas rockets keep landing in Israel, killing and injuring its civilians, destroying its property? Every single death in this whole unnecessary war is on Hamas. Israel did not take land from Palestine. There was no Palestine to take land away from by the time the Jewish state was recognized by the entire world after World War II. It wasn't brand new, Jews being in Israel, starting then and not before then. Jews have always lived in Israel since centuries before the time of Christ, who was a Jew, living in Israel. In fact there would have been no new Palestinian state, the two-state solution, created had Israel not agreed to do it in an effort to make peace in the middle east. The Arabs keep creating terrorist groups attacking Israel and making claims, so greedy that 22 countries, vast and wealthy aren't enough for them. They want to take slices of Israel, the one and only Jewish state, only about the size of the State of New Jersey. Greed and evil on the part of the Arab countries that have been attacking Israel's right to exist and the Jews right to even live. Israel has tried to make peace, but it's always only been met with more acts of terrorism from those greedy monsters.
Nope. When Israel drops the bomb, Israel killed them. Why did Israel acknowledge killing World Central Kitchen workers as a mistake? Because they were western and it was a political mistake. But when the people killed by the IDF are Palestinian civilians, it’s not a mistake. Instead it is Hamas fault and it’s perfectly fine to make all Palestinians culpable for Hamas. And honestly, do you really think that dropping leaflets with arrows on people who’ve been cut off from food and other basic necessities and telling them to somehow make their way over destroyed roads to someplace with even fewer supplies and destroyed housing is showing concern for civilian life?
That's just another example of how Israel actually does admit it when it has done something by mistake, like the aid workers. (There would be no need for aid workers had the Palestinianas not allowed Hamas to run their country and start a war based upon false sense of entitlement to the land of Israel). They knew in advance what they were about to do. They could have laid in supplies for themselves and for their civilians. The civilians should by now be angry with Hamas for turning them into victims instead of arranging for their evacuation from the war zone, but instead they join with Hamas in their baseless accusations against Israel. It is a war. Civilians should not be in a war zone. It is the responsibility of the attacking country, Hamas's Palestine, to remove their civilians from danger. They choose not to do that just so they can get people like you to see them as the victim. They are not the victims. Palestine is not our ally for a very good reason. They deny human rights especially to women and gay people. They put it in writing that they intend to kill all the Jews. Blatant Nazis, but then when their civilians are killed due to their own actions or lack thereof, somehow the millions of dollars of Arab money buys propaganda as easy to see through as Trump's election lies, but progressives are now backing them? Israel is the democracy here, not Palestine. The Palestinian people have made no move to rid themselves of Hamas or to work with Israel against Hamas, instead they choose to work with Hamas against Israel. Again, Israel owes them nothing, stole nothing from them. That's a lie. Americans support democracies worldwide, not theocratic autocracies denying human rights, with so little regard for their own civilians they actually trap them in areas they know will be under attack because they turned them into a military target.
Do you know where the Israeli Ministry of Defense and Intelligence HQ buildings are?
Jean, I agree with you that hamas uses its people as human shields. i think a better option for israel would have been to approach this as a deconstruction/demolition project. the world and especially israel has known for decades about the tunnels underlying gaza. ground penetrating radar has been around for decades. any fracking company could drill into and release destructve agents into the tunnels. heavy mining equipment shielded by tanks/armored vehicles could have dug up the tunnels. the perimeter of gaza (maybe 70 miles) could have been monitored a lot better for entrance/exits, and then destroyed. but why didn't israel proactively address the tunnel entrances/exits decades ago? these rockets/weapons that hamas has didn't appear by themselves. on the other hand, a people who've been oppressed, dispossessed of their lands/homes for 70 years - well Jean what would you do if someone came for your home and put you in the street? and what of the future terrorists that this trauma will create? this trauma inflicted on these people will last for generations, and create blowback and havoc ad infinitum. war is not the answer. humans should have figured that out by now. but it is profitable, at least for the oligarchs.
Well, here's the thing there. The Jewish people were the historical inhabitants of Israel. Arabs calling themselves Palestinians came along much later. Even some of the more recent ones were from one of the other 21 Arab countries, vast and wealthy, surrounding Israel. Arafat was from Egypt. So no, Israel has not taken anything from them, it is quite the opposite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIBFXbeQwvU
Of all the arguments in favour of Zionist ethnic cleansing this is perhaps the stupidest. There are tens of millions of Americans with Irish ancestry. Does that entitle them to return to Ireland and throw out anyone who moved there more recently? Leaving aside that many Palestinians are likely descended from converts to Islam from the indigenous population (as with Egypt next door) and not migrants from Arabia.
Noticing how "Zionist" is now being used in a derrogatory manner. The Jews have always lived in Israel, It is their homeland. The Arabs have 22 countries, most of them are not democracies, but autocratic theocracies that deny human rights to women and gay people. How is it progreswsives are backing these repressive religious autocracies? They call Israel an apartheid country when Israel includes over 2 million Arab citizens, full, equal citizens, it is democracy while there are many Arab countries with zero Jews in its population, and that is not by accident. The Jews didn't just move there from America, they have always lived there, and many who had no more home after World War II were welcomed back home.
Ranting rubbish.
Falsifying facts.
Laying aside the "starting a war" in Oct (which is interesting considering, y'know, historical reality as recently as 2022) - Do you also believe Russia is achieving its goals in Ukraine since we only hear positives for Ukraine from those opposed to Russia? Or do you accept the sporadic updates with videos and personal experiences from civilians there but for some reason that changes depending on the civilians?
Just exactly how do you "lay aside" starting a war in October with heinous acts of barbarism?
and there is the issue! Most ppl here somehow think it's okay to ignore the elephant in the room and pretend that never happen because we must defend Hamas using its own ppl as human shields because.....and thats where they haven't any answer.
I think you kind of over reacted here. Left out by you, either intentionally or purposefully, was that Israeli intelligence knew the time and place of the attack. So, why didn’t they take action? I am not anywhere near a conspiracy type, but maybe that is exactly what Bibi wanted?
They had a lot of information on what Hamas could do to attack Israel, but they had nothing specific enough to have prevented it. They did not have specifics as to time and place, so no, they did not know about it and just let it happen. Perhaps more intelligent leadership than what Netanyahu provides could have been aware that this holiday could be a vulnerable time, they could have done something more, but the fact is, Hamas committed these heinous acts against innocent people, some of whom are still in captivity now going over 200 days. They have no good reason to keep attacking Israel. It's pure hate and it is not based upon any good reason that would in any way justify it.
"Netanyahu has been thumbing his nose at the president of Israel’s most powerful ally."
Does Israel have any other allies?
Bibi has nothing to lose....if he capitulates he loses the election and goes to jail.
He's a man on his last life line like trump willing to take down anyone with him...
Good Bye & Good RIDDANCE to Both!!
Professor Reich, you wrote that Biden is a compassionate person and I take that to heart as your words and deeds have shown that you are truly compassionate and a champion of the oppressed and marginalized wherever and whoever they may be. I appreciate your calls for peace and in these almost unbearable times.
The student protests absolutely influenced the president's decision not to supply heavy armaments to Israel.
Everyone is holding Biden responsible for the killing of more than 34,000 Palestinians in Gaza but NOBODY is talking about what Trump would have done if he were President. Based on his islamophobe behavior he would have allowed Netanyahu to make a huge parking lot of the whole Gaza strip. Why people are so unfair to a decent man and tolerant to a son of a bitch like Trump?
Biden is completely between a rock and a hard place. Damn if he helps Israel and damn if he does not. Even worse, if he shows compassion for the Palestinian civilians being killed, he is then considered pro-Hamas. The bottomline is that those progressive college students protesting against Biden, are going to help elect a nazi buffoon who is NOT going to tolerate any dissent because he is going to become a fascist dictator.
Yes, if the young do not vote for Biden they are in for a rude awakening when Trump becomes president. They better smarten up before it’s too late!
Don’t scapegoat young people for Biden’s atrocious decisions to let Israel genocide.
People who have not lifted a finger to try to stop genocide are in no position to lecture others about how to vote. We all need to ask ourselves whether we bear some responsibility for the mass slaughter in Gaza and the ongoing killings and displacements in the West Bank. If, for example, we have not, at a minimum, reached out to the White House to express support for a bilateral ceasefire and a halt to weapon supplies, we are in no position to lecture students who have protested these atrocities at risk to themselves. If enough of us had opposed U.S. complicity in the atrocities, they would have ceased. But most of us just did not care enough to take even the slightest action. How dare people like that try to lecture students about their vote.
I wish the very best for those who have been protesting. There may be a very few outside agitators involved. (It's important to note that in the George Floyd protests in Minneapolis the vast majority of the violence and arson was done by right wing white guys from the suburbs or farther out of town who were either just looking to blow off steam where they hoped to get away with it, or actually hoping to discredit the legitimate protestors.) The vast majority are sincere, however, and simply find 35,000+ Palestinians dead at the blood-drenched hands of the Netanyahu government and the IRD inexcusable (as I do, myself).
I can only hope that those who have been protesting will not follow in the footsteps of my own generation (boomers) where, after the Vietnam War ended, rather than working to change the system which had produced the injustices against which they were demonstrating, they mostly became yuppies and joined the "making maximum money is all that matters" group that's responsible for so much of the evil rearrangement of our nation's economy leading to the massive inequalities we see now.
Meanwhile, a bit of historical research will reveal that the media, especially "conservative" media, web sites, and commenters (and/or trolls), are just using the collection of false tropes they always use in such situations. I hope (probably in vain) that the day will come that when any of us hear one of those same old lies, our response, and that of responsible media figures will be, I'm sorry, but that was proven to be B.S, the last 20 times you used it and it's still B.S. now. You at least need to make up some new lies.