Thank you for your typically thoughtful comments. This is a painful discussion to have because there are no good or easy solutions.
Putin is escalating his attack on Ukraine, now reportedly using vacuum bombs on civilians, which are barred by the Geneva Convention. A humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding in real time before our eyes.
Russian gas and oil now come soaked in blood. I do not believe it any longer morally justifiable for the West to purchase them. I agree with Ken and Keith on this.
To be sure, cutting off Russian gas and oil will result in substantially higher energy prices in the US and Europe, at a time when inflation is already soaring. Although we are not prepared to sacrifice the lives of Americans, we should be willing to sacrifice our pocketbooks. This is the minimum we should be willing to endure. (We should protect lower-income Americans from the worst economic consequences by enlarging subsidies for heating oil and gas at the pump, for example).
One ancillary benefit could be speeding up our conversion to renewable energy. Germany – which is highly dependent on Russian natural gas – has committed itself to 100 percent renewables by 2030, just 8 years from now. We must do the same. It is no longer “green energy” versus Big Oil and Big Coal. American security has now converged with the necessity of slowing and reversing climate change.
But what if Putin amasses tanks and troops along the borders of a NATO country? I think our best hope at the moment is that fierce financial pressure — including a ban on Russian oil and gas exports — convinces Russian oligarchs and generals that Putin must be deposed.
"As a practical matter, what should we be prepared to sacrifice to stop Putin’s aggression?"
As much as we would sacrifice by not stopping Putin's aggression.
Fiona Hill, a renowned expert on Russia, made it clear in a recent Politico article that Putin's territorial ambitions go far beyond Ukraine and that he is prepared to use any means to achieve his ends. We are not prepared to directly confront Putin militarily; that could escalate into a nuclear conflict. The only real leverage we have over Putin is economic, but he has us "over a ($100) barrel" because of the world economy's dependence on Russia's fossil fuel exports. One positive development is that Europe appears to be coming to a clear recognition that sustainable energy is not just about climate and jobs; it is a fundamental matter of national security. This issue is discussed in several recent articles:
"A shift to clean energy would halt Russia's petro-thuggery and more" (The Hill, Feb 28)
"Germany fast-tracks shift to 100 pct renewables as EU energy crisis deepens" (RenewEconomy, March 1)
"Why Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a game changer for European energy" (RenewEconomy, March 2)
In the short term we're probably going to have to endure significant economic hardship but hopefully we will emerge from this crisis with a stronger and more resilient economy. As Winston Churchill said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste."
Putin is escalating his attack on Ukraine, reportedly using vacuum bombs on civilians, which are barred by the Geneva Convention. A humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding in real time before our eyes.
What can we do? The economic sanctions already imposed are insufficient. I agree with Keith and Ken: We should block exports of Russian gas and oil. I do not believe it any longer morally justifiable for the West to purchase them.
To be sure, cutting off Russian gas and oil will result in substantially higher energy prices in the US and Europe, at a time when inflation is already soaring. But if we are not prepared to sacrifice the lives of Americans to contain Putin, we should at at least be prepared to sacrifice our pocketbooks. (We should protect lower-income Americans from dire consequences - expanding heating assistance, for example.)
One ancillary benefit from stopping Russian gas and oil exports could be the speeding of our conversion to renewable energy. Germany – which is highly dependent on Russian natural gas – has committed itself to 100 percent renewables in eight years. This crisis offers an opportunity for America to do the same - Regardless of senate Republicans and Joe Manchin.
To hell with sacrificing a damn thing, hoping to appease a madman - let's send a special task force of SEALS to wherever coward Putin is hiding and use Putin as target practice. Or how about providing free transport to Russia for all of those hunters who love destroying the wolves and other wildlife in America and let them take out their aggression on Putin because he is worse than a rabid animal. But don't talk to me about making sacrifices that won't mean diddly-squat in the final analysis. Putin must be ELIIMINATED. Period.
One need only look at what the Ukrainians are willing to sacrifice to recognize that no sacrifice, barring the risk of a nuclear exchange, is too great to stop Putin’s aggression. Please note, because I don’t know what punishments, possibly cyber, could be inflicted, I take very seriously the hardships I am willing to endure to insure Ukraine remains democratic and free. I also would note I’m no hero, but simply one who fears a substantially greater cost further down the road than the price we might need to pay now to quash Putin’s unhinged ambition to recreate the Soviet empire.
Putin’s oligarchs are taking big financial hits, how long do you think they will tolerate this before they take him out. The Russian people are not happy with Putin, how long before they turn on him.
What am I willing to sacrifice, well I’ve already survived the COVID crisis. I’m retired and I don’t drive much but maybe it’s time to trade my car in for either a hybrid or an electric vehicle.
We should be prepared to sacrifice our lives. He’s bluffing and we need to call it at any and all costs. If he isn’t bluffing then just like the soldier on the battlefield be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. This is the time for true leadership. Weakness is not an option. Stop him now or spill more blood later. He’s counting on fear.
To answer this question as a practical matter, really, would require knowing what sacrifices would be instrumental to stopping Putin how.
Giving up chocolate, for instance, a typical Lenten discipline, wouldn't do anything I can think of, to halt Putin.
I definitely think all USians should sacrifice putting electoral wins, revenge politics, and point-scoring toward stopping Putin in the short run and to prevent the burgeoning of dictators in the future.
I'm certainly in favor of the public accepting higher gas prices as a byproduct of blocking Russian oil and gas income. And for matter as a means of discouraging the oil and gas consumption that have been so instrumental in global warming, and as an incentive for the US to invest in public transportation infrastructure, even though that would displease our own energy and automobile oligarchs.
In fact, I think that our oligarchs-- the owners and leaders of our large and powerful corporations-- should undertake some sacrifice. Not only to stop Putin's march on Europe, however they might aid that effort (more than I can, for sure)-- but to invest in the environment, labor, and infrastructure of the United States and of the other nations where they do business.
(Insert sidebar story on Elon Musk opposing paying taxes as Awfully Unjust to Him, and graciously accepting kudos for providing internet access to Ukraine.)
Putin seems to be operating in a way that's not so easy to reckon up on commonplace spreadsheets, and may be building himself a tomb-throne of skulls by taking down Europe, or trying to. What's most likely to stop him, it seems to me, is how own people, and sanctions and information help to motivate them.
But for the longer run, to prevent demagogic figures from gaining the support that empowers them, we need nations full of people who aren't desperate. And that requires taxing and investing in infrastructure that includes social supports. We need to beat the habit of looking to Noble Rich Guys-- corporate oligarchs-- to Do the Good Things. Sound policy cannot rest on the whims of individuals.
.My answer is the same as for Trump and the Democrats. Some of it comes from shrink school: Despite the "good guys" wanting to play fair, severe mentally illness doesn't operate by the rule book or logic. Sanity can understand sanction. Response can be predicted. Insanity's perception and reaction can't be predicted. Shrink school lesson: if mental illness is assessed to be dangerous, believe it and act to protect.
Even among the supposedly sane, if someone murders, laws say confine or kill the murderer. Do they apply only to the "little guy"? Not to a wealthy dictator ordering mass slaughter?
We do have penalty for war crimes, but only after we standby and watch them happen. Do police standby and watch a little guy kill for weeks or years before they say, "Hey, ya shouldn't have done that."? No, right away, they take out the shooter.
A shrink school discussion sticks with me, about responsibility for failing to identify and protect society from a mentally ill individual who later takes a life. Do aurhorities who failed to send in a sniper to take out early Hitler bear any responsibility for the ensuing Holocaust? If democracy at home is murdered, will leaders share fault for failing to stop the shooter(s)? Or do wealthy and powerful killers get passes to continue murder (heroically called "war") while citizen shooters get a bullet on the spot, first try?
Are we naive, letting murder continue while politely waiting, sanctioning, expecting a mad man killer to play by our rules of reason, or are Putin's war casualties an extreme example of wealth and power privilege, or...wth, why are we making speaches, reading news, and posting opinions while Rome is burning?
I'm really old. I lived through the 1973 OPEC oil embargo. My wife and I sat in gas lines our car for many hours on Saturdays just to get a few gallons of rationed gas, barely enough to get us to and from the train station for the coming week.The cause then, as now, was Oil. The price of oil per barrel first doubled, then quadrupled. The cause then was war in the Middle East between Israel, which the United States supported, and Arab nations.
I wonder if my fellow citizens today are up for level of sacrifice? There is certainly a lack of common purpose now that was present then. Today it is all about ME, my rights, my appetites. We have been pumped full of that attitude by politicians of course but also by commercial advertising: 'It's all about YOU, dear customer, YOU deserve this, You NEED this'. Kind of an induced narcissism. Maybe this crisis will reveal what we are really made of.
We should be prepared to give up fear: true courage is to afford empathy and compassion - so we should put a geopolitical posture second and the lives of innocent civilians first. Recognizing the mistake of not one but two illegal foreign wars spanning twenty years would allow for starting from a very simple premise: no amount of violence will bring peace - and even subduing a population is not the same thing as affording the peace needed for a civil society.
(Our moral standing is arguably insufficient to effect the needed sacrifice alone; the nations of the world need to convey that message together.)
Americans do NOT need to feel the pain. We need wind and solar. HOWEVER, until we are there with wind and solar we need to continue with oil. America is producing more electric cars. We are on the right road. President Biden needs to restore America’s energy dominance. He needs to get the boot off the neck of American energy producers. Climate problems aren’t going away during the Ukraine/Russia war. We need to find a balance going from oil to wind and solar. What the USA is doing right now buying Russian oil is a disgrace. In essence our government is giving Putin money to kill innocent people. The U.S. produced more petroleum than it consumed in 2020. What happened since 2020? As Americans we can't keep going back and forth like a yo-you every time a new administration takes over. We take 1 step forward then go back 2 steps. Instead of "playing politics" how about doing what is right for our country. That way good hard working Americans don't need to "feel the pain". Pray for Ukraine. God Bless America. Thank you Robert Reich for this forum and your passion to help us all learn and grow.
Pay more for gas for a while. The people of Ukraine are enduring more than a higher gas price
Thank you for your typically thoughtful comments. This is a painful discussion to have because there are no good or easy solutions.
Putin is escalating his attack on Ukraine, now reportedly using vacuum bombs on civilians, which are barred by the Geneva Convention. A humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding in real time before our eyes.
Russian gas and oil now come soaked in blood. I do not believe it any longer morally justifiable for the West to purchase them. I agree with Ken and Keith on this.
To be sure, cutting off Russian gas and oil will result in substantially higher energy prices in the US and Europe, at a time when inflation is already soaring. Although we are not prepared to sacrifice the lives of Americans, we should be willing to sacrifice our pocketbooks. This is the minimum we should be willing to endure. (We should protect lower-income Americans from the worst economic consequences by enlarging subsidies for heating oil and gas at the pump, for example).
One ancillary benefit could be speeding up our conversion to renewable energy. Germany – which is highly dependent on Russian natural gas – has committed itself to 100 percent renewables by 2030, just 8 years from now. We must do the same. It is no longer “green energy” versus Big Oil and Big Coal. American security has now converged with the necessity of slowing and reversing climate change.
But what if Putin amasses tanks and troops along the borders of a NATO country? I think our best hope at the moment is that fierce financial pressure — including a ban on Russian oil and gas exports — convinces Russian oligarchs and generals that Putin must be deposed.
"As a practical matter, what should we be prepared to sacrifice to stop Putin’s aggression?"
As much as we would sacrifice by not stopping Putin's aggression.
Fiona Hill, a renowned expert on Russia, made it clear in a recent Politico article that Putin's territorial ambitions go far beyond Ukraine and that he is prepared to use any means to achieve his ends. We are not prepared to directly confront Putin militarily; that could escalate into a nuclear conflict. The only real leverage we have over Putin is economic, but he has us "over a ($100) barrel" because of the world economy's dependence on Russia's fossil fuel exports. One positive development is that Europe appears to be coming to a clear recognition that sustainable energy is not just about climate and jobs; it is a fundamental matter of national security. This issue is discussed in several recent articles:
"A shift to clean energy would halt Russia's petro-thuggery and more" (The Hill, Feb 28)
"Germany fast-tracks shift to 100 pct renewables as EU energy crisis deepens" (RenewEconomy, March 1)
"Why Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a game changer for European energy" (RenewEconomy, March 2)
In the short term we're probably going to have to endure significant economic hardship but hopefully we will emerge from this crisis with a stronger and more resilient economy. As Winston Churchill said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste."
Putin is escalating his attack on Ukraine, reportedly using vacuum bombs on civilians, which are barred by the Geneva Convention. A humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding in real time before our eyes.
What can we do? The economic sanctions already imposed are insufficient. I agree with Keith and Ken: We should block exports of Russian gas and oil. I do not believe it any longer morally justifiable for the West to purchase them.
To be sure, cutting off Russian gas and oil will result in substantially higher energy prices in the US and Europe, at a time when inflation is already soaring. But if we are not prepared to sacrifice the lives of Americans to contain Putin, we should at at least be prepared to sacrifice our pocketbooks. (We should protect lower-income Americans from dire consequences - expanding heating assistance, for example.)
One ancillary benefit from stopping Russian gas and oil exports could be the speeding of our conversion to renewable energy. Germany – which is highly dependent on Russian natural gas – has committed itself to 100 percent renewables in eight years. This crisis offers an opportunity for America to do the same - Regardless of senate Republicans and Joe Manchin.
To hell with sacrificing a damn thing, hoping to appease a madman - let's send a special task force of SEALS to wherever coward Putin is hiding and use Putin as target practice. Or how about providing free transport to Russia for all of those hunters who love destroying the wolves and other wildlife in America and let them take out their aggression on Putin because he is worse than a rabid animal. But don't talk to me about making sacrifices that won't mean diddly-squat in the final analysis. Putin must be ELIIMINATED. Period.
One need only look at what the Ukrainians are willing to sacrifice to recognize that no sacrifice, barring the risk of a nuclear exchange, is too great to stop Putin’s aggression. Please note, because I don’t know what punishments, possibly cyber, could be inflicted, I take very seriously the hardships I am willing to endure to insure Ukraine remains democratic and free. I also would note I’m no hero, but simply one who fears a substantially greater cost further down the road than the price we might need to pay now to quash Putin’s unhinged ambition to recreate the Soviet empire.
Freedom isn't free. So if I have to pay an extra $100 bucks a month for gas.. money well spent.
Putin’s oligarchs are taking big financial hits, how long do you think they will tolerate this before they take him out. The Russian people are not happy with Putin, how long before they turn on him.
What am I willing to sacrifice, well I’ve already survived the COVID crisis. I’m retired and I don’t drive much but maybe it’s time to trade my car in for either a hybrid or an electric vehicle.
We must stop depending on gas and oil! Go sustainable asap!
Get rid of all nuclear weapons in all countries asap!
Find someone in Putins entourage who is reasonable and encourage them to take care of the problem, (Putin), asap!
We should be prepared to sacrifice our lives. He’s bluffing and we need to call it at any and all costs. If he isn’t bluffing then just like the soldier on the battlefield be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. This is the time for true leadership. Weakness is not an option. Stop him now or spill more blood later. He’s counting on fear.
To answer this question as a practical matter, really, would require knowing what sacrifices would be instrumental to stopping Putin how.
Giving up chocolate, for instance, a typical Lenten discipline, wouldn't do anything I can think of, to halt Putin.
I definitely think all USians should sacrifice putting electoral wins, revenge politics, and point-scoring toward stopping Putin in the short run and to prevent the burgeoning of dictators in the future.
I'm certainly in favor of the public accepting higher gas prices as a byproduct of blocking Russian oil and gas income. And for matter as a means of discouraging the oil and gas consumption that have been so instrumental in global warming, and as an incentive for the US to invest in public transportation infrastructure, even though that would displease our own energy and automobile oligarchs.
In fact, I think that our oligarchs-- the owners and leaders of our large and powerful corporations-- should undertake some sacrifice. Not only to stop Putin's march on Europe, however they might aid that effort (more than I can, for sure)-- but to invest in the environment, labor, and infrastructure of the United States and of the other nations where they do business.
(Insert sidebar story on Elon Musk opposing paying taxes as Awfully Unjust to Him, and graciously accepting kudos for providing internet access to Ukraine.)
Putin seems to be operating in a way that's not so easy to reckon up on commonplace spreadsheets, and may be building himself a tomb-throne of skulls by taking down Europe, or trying to. What's most likely to stop him, it seems to me, is how own people, and sanctions and information help to motivate them.
But for the longer run, to prevent demagogic figures from gaining the support that empowers them, we need nations full of people who aren't desperate. And that requires taxing and investing in infrastructure that includes social supports. We need to beat the habit of looking to Noble Rich Guys-- corporate oligarchs-- to Do the Good Things. Sound policy cannot rest on the whims of individuals.
We took out osama bin Ladin, we can take out putin!
.My answer is the same as for Trump and the Democrats. Some of it comes from shrink school: Despite the "good guys" wanting to play fair, severe mentally illness doesn't operate by the rule book or logic. Sanity can understand sanction. Response can be predicted. Insanity's perception and reaction can't be predicted. Shrink school lesson: if mental illness is assessed to be dangerous, believe it and act to protect.
Even among the supposedly sane, if someone murders, laws say confine or kill the murderer. Do they apply only to the "little guy"? Not to a wealthy dictator ordering mass slaughter?
We do have penalty for war crimes, but only after we standby and watch them happen. Do police standby and watch a little guy kill for weeks or years before they say, "Hey, ya shouldn't have done that."? No, right away, they take out the shooter.
A shrink school discussion sticks with me, about responsibility for failing to identify and protect society from a mentally ill individual who later takes a life. Do aurhorities who failed to send in a sniper to take out early Hitler bear any responsibility for the ensuing Holocaust? If democracy at home is murdered, will leaders share fault for failing to stop the shooter(s)? Or do wealthy and powerful killers get passes to continue murder (heroically called "war") while citizen shooters get a bullet on the spot, first try?
Are we naive, letting murder continue while politely waiting, sanctioning, expecting a mad man killer to play by our rules of reason, or are Putin's war casualties an extreme example of wealth and power privilege, or...wth, why are we making speaches, reading news, and posting opinions while Rome is burning?
I'm really old. I lived through the 1973 OPEC oil embargo. My wife and I sat in gas lines our car for many hours on Saturdays just to get a few gallons of rationed gas, barely enough to get us to and from the train station for the coming week.The cause then, as now, was Oil. The price of oil per barrel first doubled, then quadrupled. The cause then was war in the Middle East between Israel, which the United States supported, and Arab nations.
I wonder if my fellow citizens today are up for level of sacrifice? There is certainly a lack of common purpose now that was present then. Today it is all about ME, my rights, my appetites. We have been pumped full of that attitude by politicians of course but also by commercial advertising: 'It's all about YOU, dear customer, YOU deserve this, You NEED this'. Kind of an induced narcissism. Maybe this crisis will reveal what we are really made of.
We should be prepared to give up fear: true courage is to afford empathy and compassion - so we should put a geopolitical posture second and the lives of innocent civilians first. Recognizing the mistake of not one but two illegal foreign wars spanning twenty years would allow for starting from a very simple premise: no amount of violence will bring peace - and even subduing a population is not the same thing as affording the peace needed for a civil society.
(Our moral standing is arguably insufficient to effect the needed sacrifice alone; the nations of the world need to convey that message together.)
Americans do NOT need to feel the pain. We need wind and solar. HOWEVER, until we are there with wind and solar we need to continue with oil. America is producing more electric cars. We are on the right road. President Biden needs to restore America’s energy dominance. He needs to get the boot off the neck of American energy producers. Climate problems aren’t going away during the Ukraine/Russia war. We need to find a balance going from oil to wind and solar. What the USA is doing right now buying Russian oil is a disgrace. In essence our government is giving Putin money to kill innocent people. The U.S. produced more petroleum than it consumed in 2020. What happened since 2020? As Americans we can't keep going back and forth like a yo-you every time a new administration takes over. We take 1 step forward then go back 2 steps. Instead of "playing politics" how about doing what is right for our country. That way good hard working Americans don't need to "feel the pain". Pray for Ukraine. God Bless America. Thank you Robert Reich for this forum and your passion to help us all learn and grow.