Let me add one encouraging note. Representative Liz Cheney (whom I've disagreed with on countless substantive issues) is doing the nation a great service now. A few minutes ago, she blasted Trump's ally Steve Bannon for refusing to cooperate with the House committee investigating the January 6 riot, saying Bannon's claim of executive privilege is not only invalid, but that it suggests Trump was "personally involved" in the planning and execution of the events that day. Let me quote her: "Mr. Bannon's and Mr. Trump's privilege arguments do appear to reveal one thing, however: they suggest that President Trump was personally involved in the planning and execution of January 6th," she said. "And we will get to the bottom of that."
Republicans who can’t stop screaming about “cancel culture” are doing everything in their power to cancel ideas, things, and People; Best example is Representative Liz Cheney; just like you, there are few, if any time I agreed with her, yet I admire her very much in taking a stand for Truth
Leave it to the GOP to excuse what happened at the Capitol but oust Liz Cheney for telling the truth about the election.
Every time Trump and his buddies attempt to block attempts to get at the truth all they do is scream, “We are guilty!” If it weren’t so serious it would be laughable.
Janet, I agree with you. I had hoped for much more from him. He's reached an age and seniority where one would think his honor and integrity would be worth more to him than reelection.
Janet, I feel your pain. I moved to Fort Collins- panicked when there was talk of overlapping Joe Neguse with her district. Whew! Thank goodness for R Reich!
Let me jump in here. First of all, I agree with hw that Democrats must stop worrying about what the GOP will do to them once the GOP regains the majority and also stop fearing that by pursuing Trump the Democrats will fuel even more division. That is of course possible. But the dangers of not holding Trump accountable are far worse. It's important Democratic leaders -- including Biden -- clearly articulate the dangers of authoritarianism, talk openly about how close America came to losing our democracy because of Trump, and conduct public hearings into the most blatant transgressions of the Trump administration.
Meanwhile, Attorney General Merrick Garland must prepare a criminal case before a specially-impaneled grand jury against Trump for his many crimes: obstruction of justice (doing whatever he could to prevent Mueller from investigating him), federal tax evasion, election fraud, campaign finance fraud, seeking the help of foreign governments in being reelected, and inciting a deadly coup against the US government. We’re talking treason. Garland should also indict every member of Congress who aided and abetted Trump in the insurrection. This indictment should lead to the application of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment against Trump and any and all lawmakers who helped him.
The current charges in New York against Trump and his family business are not nearly enough because they don’t deal with Trump’s core criminal activities as president. This is the point: No president is above the law. To ignore or forget what Trump has done is to invite it to occur again. In November 1923, Hitler’s attempted coup failed – but no one was held accountable. Ten years later, Hitler took over Germany. Donald Trump attempted a coup against the United States. He must be held accountable.
Allow me to correct you here as well: Hitler was sentenced to at least 5 years, went to jail but was released after less than a year from prison. I’d go beyond what you’re saying: he doesn’t only need to be sentenced, he needs to be put in jail long enough so he cannot ever be a threat to anyone, ever again.
I agree with JJ. Donald Trump goes beyond just being a 'threat' to our country. He has friends in other countries who would love for him to be 'Available' to do even more damage to our people and country than he already has. He is more dangerous than Hitler in many respects. He needs to be put in prison for the rest of his life and have no communication privileges whatsoever.
So far Trump has been getting away with his crimes and any reaction towards him has so far been aggressive rhetoric. We can't leave Trump and those responsible for Jan. 6 thumbing their collective noses at us. The House Committee is a step in the right direction, but the Senate should have been involved with this too. Every member of Congress was threatened as well as our democracy that day. The fact that after so many months no one has been called into account is inexplicable.
I think that it's not completely certain how dangerous it would be to pursue serious criminal charges against Trump and his various accomplices, though I think such action is merited. My concern isn't really retaliation by GOP politicians if they regain power, or ideological division, but ideological extremism. The insurrection was a result of people believing that Trump, and by extension their beliefs and themselves, were being persecuted/attacked (as well as people using that feeling in others as an opportunity to incite violence). I worry that trying to convict Trump of serious charges would serve as an opportunity for alt-right groups to escalate the situation, and incite further violence and destabilization. Even if Trump ends up imprisoned for the rest of his life, the other elements of our society which enabled him aren't gone. I'm not saying we let Trump get away with his crimes, but I do think we need to be prepared for retaliation from extremists, perhaps even moreso than from politicians. Because those people will still be around, rooting for fascism, whether or not Trump is the one providing it.
I agree that this will likely lead to more violence from the right fringe, but if you let that intimidate you, they’ve already won. The threat of violence worked in Nazi Germany as well. But even after Hitler got into power and had complete control over the govt, the violence still erupted, against Jews, minorities and all opposition. It’ll be exactly that if you let him get away with another slap on the wrist.
Thanks for your reply; I agree that it shouldn't intimidate us into inaction, I think my position now is more that that danger needs to be a more frank part of the discussion. Framing concerns as political retaliation, or ideological division, is ignoring a serious threat that we need to be aware of, and ideally, prepared for.
Another point I'd make is that dealing with Trump, on its own, won't fully deal with the issues that led to the insurrection; if he is convicted, there could still be another person to step in and take his place. A lot of the more mainstream coverage of Trump seems, at least implicitly, to lay all of the blame for "Trumpism" at Trump's feet, and suggests that by dealing with him, everything will somehow return to "normal". But Trump is, in many ways, a continuation of conservative ideology, rather than an anomaly. While I think a lot of people understand that, I wish more mainstream figures would actually say that Trump is more of an effect (and amplifier) of already existing ideology, rather than truly the founder of "Trumpism". If Trump is convicted, I don't want people to just say "We're done, problem solved." As an analogy, I wonder if Hitler had served his full sentence, if we wouldn't just be talking about another Nazi Fuhrer with their own atrocities, and wishing they had been imprisoned to prevent their rise to power.
Finally, I'd like to point out that it's possible for alt-right extremists to cause major harm without formally taking over the government. Several such groups have sought to incite race-wars, or generally destabilize our society, rather than directly seize political power. In fact, I think a "successful" coup in opposition to Biden's election could've been a catalyst for a civil war akin to the Syrian civil war (rather than one like our own in the 1860s). While such attempts haven't fully ignited widespread conflict in the US so far, the right set of circumstances could do so.
Ultimately, my point isn't that we should ignore Trump; it's that we should address these issues that enabled and surrounded him with just as much urgency.
Trump and his fellow thugs are responsible for numerous deaths from Covid, to whipping up a deadly coup attempt, to all of his goons killing Democrats, foreigners and even chanting German chants against Jews. To see this kind of Treason & other crime get put on hold, is something we will never forget. Trump et al also stopped anyone on the left from carrying out their constitutional right to peacefully protest. I’d like to see the death penalty in a number if these cases. The rest get mandatory prison up to 20 years.
Janet, one of the benefits of Substack is the ability to block trolls. On the other hand, it's important for all of us to hear reasoned and thoughtful ideas and opinions we disagree with. So Kara (who works with me) and I will be monitoring.
Michael Del Camp (known troll) could be added by a moderator. Any person, that wants to troll this site could, and they can also change their name and come again with more hate. I found this at previous sites that would attack me and others personally. Anyone they disagreed with, they would belittle them, in writing, on the "reply to comments" and we do not want that to happen here on our precious site of reason and civility. I could not find the thread you quoted so I believe a moderator took care of it. This is the problem with being live and on-going. Thank you for pointing this out Janet.
Friends, I have to leave now. (I'll get back on as soon as I can.) Again, I want to thank you for your thoughtful, interesting, and respectful comments. Perhaps Garland will read them?
I think we're all frustrated by the molasses slowness of justice in everything having to do with the criminality of Trump, his family and his company. And the slap on the wrist for many of those who invaded the Capitol to overturn the election. We need to see real activity, and real, significant penalties for all those involved.
The special committee in the House that is investigating the attempted coup d'erat needs to pick up the pace and have open televised hearings. New York's Letitia James needs to up the pace of her legal work against the Trumps, the Southern District of NY (SDNY) needs to finally bring charges after several years of investigations into Trump-related illegalities, and the Georgia Attorney General needs to get off his rear end on charges against Trump for trying to overturn election results in that state.
How long does it take for these various legal entities to get anything done?
Cy Vance is running out the clock. In the unlikely event that he actually brings charges (disrupting his near-perfect record if never indicting the wealthy or famous), he intends to retire and dump the mess into the hands of the new DA). SDNY is running out the clock as well (so much for their much-vaunted cowboy image) as the statute of limitations is expiring for many Trump (alleged) crimes. No idea what Tish James is up to...she's moved swiftly on other matters. Georgia may be the last hope for any accountability.
"Former President Donald J. Trump’s family business, which is already under indictment in Manhattan, is facing a criminal investigation by another prosecutor’s office that has begun to examine financial dealings at a golf course the company owns, according to people with knowledge of the matter.
"In recent months, the district attorney’s office in suburban Westchester County, N.Y., has subpoenaed records from the course, Trump National Golf Club Westchester, and the town of Ossining, which sets property taxes on the course, a sprawling private club that is perched on a hill north of New York City and boasts a 101-foot waterfall.
"The full scope of the investigation could not be determined, but the district attorney, Mimi E. Rocah, appears to be focused at least in part on whether Mr. Trump’s company, the Trump Organization, misled local officials about the property’s value to reduce its taxes, one of the people said."
Or as 3rd century Greek philosopher Sextus Empiricus put it, "The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind small." Over the centuries, this was updated to "the wheels of justice grind slowly, but exceedingly fine." Either way, this describes what is apparently happening with the various legal assaults on Trump and his family, company and followers.
Thank you for the update...I have long since shrugged at Trump investigations, which seem to wither within months of commencing, but I do have considerably more faith in Rocah's record than Vance's abysmal prosecutorial history.
Just another aside, relevant to the NY Times article: the town of Ossining, NY, where Trump's Westchester golf course is located, is known widely as the home of Sing Sing penitentiary, where one might hope Trump will spend the rest of his days.
When I was growing up in the city, occasionally I'd hear about some crooks or mobster being sent "up the river." The meaning was that he/they were shipped up to Sing Sing.
I don't believe that this is accurate. He was either in the DA's office, teaching or working at a law firm. My concern is that he consistently refused to prosecute the wealthy or famous during his tenure, even dropping a solid case against the Trump 'children' (Trump SoHo fraud case), for which he was widely criticized.
Democrats must stop worrying about what the GOP will do to them once the GOP regains the majority, and act decisively 1) clearly articulate the dangers of propaganda and authoritarianism, 2) use their powers of inherent contempt, 3) conduct public hearings into the most blatant transgressions of the Trump administration. Their constant dithering, fear of repercussions, and speeches about how no one is above the law (while allowing an entire administration to operate above the law) have disheartened the base and emboldened the GOP base. I have zero confidence that Democrats will do any of the 3, though I do think the presence of 2 Republicans on the 1/6 Committee has provided a clarity and backbone we would otherwise not have seen.
Well said. They need to be more concerned with OUR confidence and reactions. “Reaching across the aisle” to criminals just make them complicit. How many times do they need to be stabbed in the back to catch on to this!
Apply Section 3 of Amendment 14 to the U.S. Constitution to all involved in the Jan. 6 insurrection. And do it NOW. Section 3 states as follows:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Donald J. Trump should be disqualified by Congressional vote from ever holding any public office for the remainder of his life. And that needs to happen NOW. Why is he even allowed to have more rallies? WHY? WHY?
Since the Senate didn't have the votes to find Trump guilty in either impeachment, wouldn't the only way Section 3 could be applied would be through a guilty verdict for either of these offenses in a Court of Law?
Until these people are put into jail many of us will lose our faith in the justice system in the US. We ruin people's lives over the possession of pot and allow white-collar crime that profits those able to hire the best lawyers.
Good point. Faith and belief in the justice system is what gets damaged watching it defer to power. You and I would indeed be in cuffs if we defied a county court much less a congressional supeona.
After months of these cronies going viral w/rallies, illegal foolery w/ballots & out & out inciting more violence, I think DOJ needs to instruct FBI to remove these terrorists off the grid to await any trials/reviews into their obvious crimes. They should be treated as PUBLIC ENEMY #1s & terrorists at this point. When we harm others freedoms, we inherently should lose that freedom to ensure Public Safety! X to act Mr Garland & use FBI now!! Start the Witch Hunt they say happened!! PERIOD! Our Democracy now calls for drastic action. DOJ needs to start crackdown! Donald & gang did & tried. How much more serious can be???
Yes but ... Garland and others need to move carefully as well as expeditiously. Several of the people involved in the January 6 riot are already arrested; some are in prison. The FBI continues to assess who they were and their degree of complicity. What's critical now is that Trump, Bannon, Meadows, and the members of Congress who helped them in this plot be exposed and indicted.
Something needs to be done in the meantime. People need to see some action from our democratic leaders. Republicans are counting on democratic lethargy, something that has been a hallmark of their behavior.
I can see your point Mr Reich but at this juncture how much more is law enforcement on the Federal Level going to continue to tip toe thru the tulips?? These folks are definitely a public menace & only know one way & that is to tie up the courts by the balls! 6 years of this is ENOUGH! The general public is sick of the scratching heads & it may sway voters to through in the towel cause we see no light or outcome except more of the same!
W/all due respect & I can somewhat agree what you’ve said, however when I council someone in AA & they use the BUT WORD in a sentence explaining their situation I tell them don’t say “BUT” because what they’re saying w/that word is telling me what comes out of BUTT!! The process needs emergency handling at this moment in x, therefore drastic measures are needed!! Thus 9/11 measures should be exercised, especially w/Kingpins involved!! Did Hoover play footsie w/John Dillinger & gang??
I agree with the sentiment of "How much more serious [can it] be???." I'm interested in seeing whether any posts here identify specific laws that were broken. Bonus points if the laws are ones with sharp, pointy teeth like RICO (anti-racketerring). Charging the FBI with stiffer enforcement of these laws while simultaneously raising public awareness that the laws exist and need to be enforced in this context would both be moves I'd welcome.
Mueller obstruction, federal tax evasion, election fraud, campaign finance fraud, best for last…inciting a deadly coup on the US government. There was no attempt to even cover up these crimes.
"Fear City," a three-part video series on the FBI's taking down of the Mafia, gives a fair bit of attention to how much easier it is to bring down a "soldier" than a boss, and to the hardest task of all -- proving a conspiracy among the bosses of the different families. That same difficulty applies here. Charging and convicting a few soldiers might feel good, but the real damage and the real need lies at the top. Mueller did his best with the tools available to the FBI. When the top resides in the White House and in Congress, additional powers are likely needed.
"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States." *it's time to enforce this to the fullest extent of the law.
This was a direct attack on our country. I’d start by replacing Garland. We need the most aggressive person in this role now! But my chin is still on the ground as we watch republicans commit very serious crimes, protect perpetrators, give the US the middle finger, ignore laws they don’t like AND they simply get away with it. Trump et al should have been hand cuffed and taken to prison to await trial.
This is the very best way to discourage the voting public. I am way past disgusted. This is an atrocity!
I love her. She is such a great example not only of how to address these republicans bu has charts too! 😊 Everyone can follow along on her points! I’m totally with you on this.
Even "atrocity" is an understatement. The longer nothing is done, the worse it all becomes and the more likely it is that people in power will continue to act illegally with impunity.
There really isn’t a word to describe what we’ve been forced to witness. But Authoritarian, Fascist, Psychotic, Murdering, Lunatics not held accountable are probably the starting words. 😑
I will cheer if he pulls this together but deadly traitor terrorists like Trump et al should never be able to walk on our street and hold rallies. It’s a slap to the nation.
------- the problem is that nearly half this nation disagrees with you (and me... ) . how do we convince our friends and neighbors that they're wrong ? . . .
If, say, a black panther started a riot that did thousands of dollars in damage, the legal system wouldn’t hesitate for a minute to arrest and prosecute the leader!
Wasn't 1/6 just tfg's Beer Hall Putsch? A rehearsal for a more successful coup that is just in the offing?
Why are we allowing an insurrectionist to run for high office? Does anyone believe our fragile liberal democracy could actually withstand another presidency under tfg? Just asking...
I agree. I believe this might be our only hope. But then, Hitler was thrown in jail after his coup attempt but it didn't stop him. What I wonder is whether or not we have the testicular fortitude to ban tfg from office for good and to make it stick.
Good point. I think the next phase will move us out of the subversive to more violence at poling locations, armed and dangerous vigilante groups, who are being whipped up by trump and his criminal tribe.
Honestly, the dems must address this. Take off the kid gloves and forget about “across the aisle” crap. The GQP doesn’t care. Move on.
A summary by Leading Psychologists conclude the following:
Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist with antisocial proclivities and a core sadism. It is this combination of psychopathology that leads him to be intensely attracted to the powers of a dictator. Indeed, Trump has proven repeatedly that he wants America to be an autocracy, not a democracy. He has systemically and purposefully guided our country toward dictatorial rule during the past four years in office. He has frequently embraced, admired, complimented, envied and even fawned over autocratic leaders throughout the world.
Donald Trump in a second term would be unstoppable. And America might be changed forever.
Trump seeks complete power and control. According to him, the president has absolute, all-encompassing authority. As such, Trump does not abide by norms or rules. He breaks laws with impunity. He interferes with all attempts at oversight and accountability. He believes that he is free to exert his power as he sees fit, no matter the motivation or legality or well-being of anyone other than Donald Trump.
Dump should be investigated by the DOJ and FBI. Pretty sure conspiracy to overthrow the U.S. government and constitution, is treason,or the very least a major felony. What good is voting for democrats to save democracy, if they refuse to hold criminals and traitors accountable ? Very dissapointed, frustrated, and disgusted
He should be banned from running for future office, jailed for insurrection, and lose his citizenship. Then he should be charged with manslaughter for turning COVID into a partisan problem....and causing unnecessary deaths.
He's just another white collar criminal that needs to be held accountable for his criminal behavior.
My cousin Marie Equi was thrown into San Quentin by Woodrow Wilson for speaking our against World War I. She served two years for this. I think D. Trump and associates should get nothing less.
There's a tenuous case for Wilson being the first modern dictator. His 'God has endorsed me' assurance was taken up 15 admin's later by Bushie Boy, with Plan for a New Century as holy scripture ..
Let me add one encouraging note. Representative Liz Cheney (whom I've disagreed with on countless substantive issues) is doing the nation a great service now. A few minutes ago, she blasted Trump's ally Steve Bannon for refusing to cooperate with the House committee investigating the January 6 riot, saying Bannon's claim of executive privilege is not only invalid, but that it suggests Trump was "personally involved" in the planning and execution of the events that day. Let me quote her: "Mr. Bannon's and Mr. Trump's privilege arguments do appear to reveal one thing, however: they suggest that President Trump was personally involved in the planning and execution of January 6th," she said. "And we will get to the bottom of that."
Republicans who can’t stop screaming about “cancel culture” are doing everything in their power to cancel ideas, things, and People; Best example is Representative Liz Cheney; just like you, there are few, if any time I agreed with her, yet I admire her very much in taking a stand for Truth
Leave it to the GOP to excuse what happened at the Capitol but oust Liz Cheney for telling the truth about the election.
Every time Trump and his buddies attempt to block attempts to get at the truth all they do is scream, “We are guilty!” If it weren’t so serious it would be laughable.
Don't get some of us wrong... we definitely appreciate Liz Cheney's stand and her statements. Some of us, however, might wonder about her motivations.
Janet, I agree with you. I had hoped for much more from him. He's reached an age and seniority where one would think his honor and integrity would be worth more to him than reelection.
Janet, I feel your pain. I moved to Fort Collins- panicked when there was talk of overlapping Joe Neguse with her district. Whew! Thank goodness for R Reich!
Friends,
Let me jump in here. First of all, I agree with hw that Democrats must stop worrying about what the GOP will do to them once the GOP regains the majority and also stop fearing that by pursuing Trump the Democrats will fuel even more division. That is of course possible. But the dangers of not holding Trump accountable are far worse. It's important Democratic leaders -- including Biden -- clearly articulate the dangers of authoritarianism, talk openly about how close America came to losing our democracy because of Trump, and conduct public hearings into the most blatant transgressions of the Trump administration.
Meanwhile, Attorney General Merrick Garland must prepare a criminal case before a specially-impaneled grand jury against Trump for his many crimes: obstruction of justice (doing whatever he could to prevent Mueller from investigating him), federal tax evasion, election fraud, campaign finance fraud, seeking the help of foreign governments in being reelected, and inciting a deadly coup against the US government. We’re talking treason. Garland should also indict every member of Congress who aided and abetted Trump in the insurrection. This indictment should lead to the application of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment against Trump and any and all lawmakers who helped him.
The current charges in New York against Trump and his family business are not nearly enough because they don’t deal with Trump’s core criminal activities as president. This is the point: No president is above the law. To ignore or forget what Trump has done is to invite it to occur again. In November 1923, Hitler’s attempted coup failed – but no one was held accountable. Ten years later, Hitler took over Germany. Donald Trump attempted a coup against the United States. He must be held accountable.
Allow me to correct you here as well: Hitler was sentenced to at least 5 years, went to jail but was released after less than a year from prison. I’d go beyond what you’re saying: he doesn’t only need to be sentenced, he needs to be put in jail long enough so he cannot ever be a threat to anyone, ever again.
Agree. (Hitler served 9 months of a 5-year sentence.)
I agree with JJ. Donald Trump goes beyond just being a 'threat' to our country. He has friends in other countries who would love for him to be 'Available' to do even more damage to our people and country than he already has. He is more dangerous than Hitler in many respects. He needs to be put in prison for the rest of his life and have no communication privileges whatsoever.
So far Trump has been getting away with his crimes and any reaction towards him has so far been aggressive rhetoric. We can't leave Trump and those responsible for Jan. 6 thumbing their collective noses at us. The House Committee is a step in the right direction, but the Senate should have been involved with this too. Every member of Congress was threatened as well as our democracy that day. The fact that after so many months no one has been called into account is inexplicable.
I think that it's not completely certain how dangerous it would be to pursue serious criminal charges against Trump and his various accomplices, though I think such action is merited. My concern isn't really retaliation by GOP politicians if they regain power, or ideological division, but ideological extremism. The insurrection was a result of people believing that Trump, and by extension their beliefs and themselves, were being persecuted/attacked (as well as people using that feeling in others as an opportunity to incite violence). I worry that trying to convict Trump of serious charges would serve as an opportunity for alt-right groups to escalate the situation, and incite further violence and destabilization. Even if Trump ends up imprisoned for the rest of his life, the other elements of our society which enabled him aren't gone. I'm not saying we let Trump get away with his crimes, but I do think we need to be prepared for retaliation from extremists, perhaps even moreso than from politicians. Because those people will still be around, rooting for fascism, whether or not Trump is the one providing it.
I agree that this will likely lead to more violence from the right fringe, but if you let that intimidate you, they’ve already won. The threat of violence worked in Nazi Germany as well. But even after Hitler got into power and had complete control over the govt, the violence still erupted, against Jews, minorities and all opposition. It’ll be exactly that if you let him get away with another slap on the wrist.
Thanks for your reply; I agree that it shouldn't intimidate us into inaction, I think my position now is more that that danger needs to be a more frank part of the discussion. Framing concerns as political retaliation, or ideological division, is ignoring a serious threat that we need to be aware of, and ideally, prepared for.
Another point I'd make is that dealing with Trump, on its own, won't fully deal with the issues that led to the insurrection; if he is convicted, there could still be another person to step in and take his place. A lot of the more mainstream coverage of Trump seems, at least implicitly, to lay all of the blame for "Trumpism" at Trump's feet, and suggests that by dealing with him, everything will somehow return to "normal". But Trump is, in many ways, a continuation of conservative ideology, rather than an anomaly. While I think a lot of people understand that, I wish more mainstream figures would actually say that Trump is more of an effect (and amplifier) of already existing ideology, rather than truly the founder of "Trumpism". If Trump is convicted, I don't want people to just say "We're done, problem solved." As an analogy, I wonder if Hitler had served his full sentence, if we wouldn't just be talking about another Nazi Fuhrer with their own atrocities, and wishing they had been imprisoned to prevent their rise to power.
Finally, I'd like to point out that it's possible for alt-right extremists to cause major harm without formally taking over the government. Several such groups have sought to incite race-wars, or generally destabilize our society, rather than directly seize political power. In fact, I think a "successful" coup in opposition to Biden's election could've been a catalyst for a civil war akin to the Syrian civil war (rather than one like our own in the 1860s). While such attempts haven't fully ignited widespread conflict in the US so far, the right set of circumstances could do so.
Ultimately, my point isn't that we should ignore Trump; it's that we should address these issues that enabled and surrounded him with just as much urgency.
Trump and his fellow thugs are responsible for numerous deaths from Covid, to whipping up a deadly coup attempt, to all of his goons killing Democrats, foreigners and even chanting German chants against Jews. To see this kind of Treason & other crime get put on hold, is something we will never forget. Trump et al also stopped anyone on the left from carrying out their constitutional right to peacefully protest. I’d like to see the death penalty in a number if these cases. The rest get mandatory prison up to 20 years.
I meant to say punishment put on hold.
Donald Trump, Super Spreader
Add it to the list! 😄
Robert Reich, thank you for this important comment. I totally agree with what you're saying.
Agreed!!!
Janet, one of the benefits of Substack is the ability to block trolls. On the other hand, it's important for all of us to hear reasoned and thoughtful ideas and opinions we disagree with. So Kara (who works with me) and I will be monitoring.
Thank you, Robert & Kara!
Thanks for flagging Janet!
Thank you Janet. I’ve seen a few people here that attempt to troll.
We should not repeat their comments! The best response is to silence. If it gets too bad, we must count on Brother Robert and Kara to take care of it.
We have your back! Civil disagreement is more than welcome here, but rudeness, trolling, and blatant misinformation are not.
I agree. Refuse to comment, let them sit there without the attention they crave.
nutty trolls are in some way Worse than algorithms;
After 1 month just using my first name, [time flies], I changed my handle a few minutes ago, because of possible troll activity
Janet, I hope there's a way to block anyone spewing that kind of dangerous nonsense. And it IS dangerous (as well as ignorant and worse).
Michael Del Camp (known troll) could be added by a moderator. Any person, that wants to troll this site could, and they can also change their name and come again with more hate. I found this at previous sites that would attack me and others personally. Anyone they disagreed with, they would belittle them, in writing, on the "reply to comments" and we do not want that to happen here on our precious site of reason and civility. I could not find the thread you quoted so I believe a moderator took care of it. This is the problem with being live and on-going. Thank you for pointing this out Janet.
Friends, I have to leave now. (I'll get back on as soon as I can.) Again, I want to thank you for your thoughtful, interesting, and respectful comments. Perhaps Garland will read them?
Hopefully he's too busy building cases against all those involved in the Jan 6th insurrection. Keeping my fingers crossed!
I think we're all frustrated by the molasses slowness of justice in everything having to do with the criminality of Trump, his family and his company. And the slap on the wrist for many of those who invaded the Capitol to overturn the election. We need to see real activity, and real, significant penalties for all those involved.
The special committee in the House that is investigating the attempted coup d'erat needs to pick up the pace and have open televised hearings. New York's Letitia James needs to up the pace of her legal work against the Trumps, the Southern District of NY (SDNY) needs to finally bring charges after several years of investigations into Trump-related illegalities, and the Georgia Attorney General needs to get off his rear end on charges against Trump for trying to overturn election results in that state.
How long does it take for these various legal entities to get anything done?
I agree. It is absolutely pathetic that it could take over 5 years to get his tax papers and they weren't ready to move at full speed upon getting it.
Cy Vance is running out the clock. In the unlikely event that he actually brings charges (disrupting his near-perfect record if never indicting the wealthy or famous), he intends to retire and dump the mess into the hands of the new DA). SDNY is running out the clock as well (so much for their much-vaunted cowboy image) as the statute of limitations is expiring for many Trump (alleged) crimes. No idea what Tish James is up to...she's moved swiftly on other matters. Georgia may be the last hope for any accountability.
From today's New York Times:
"Former President Donald J. Trump’s family business, which is already under indictment in Manhattan, is facing a criminal investigation by another prosecutor’s office that has begun to examine financial dealings at a golf course the company owns, according to people with knowledge of the matter.
"In recent months, the district attorney’s office in suburban Westchester County, N.Y., has subpoenaed records from the course, Trump National Golf Club Westchester, and the town of Ossining, which sets property taxes on the course, a sprawling private club that is perched on a hill north of New York City and boasts a 101-foot waterfall.
"The full scope of the investigation could not be determined, but the district attorney, Mimi E. Rocah, appears to be focused at least in part on whether Mr. Trump’s company, the Trump Organization, misled local officials about the property’s value to reduce its taxes, one of the people said."
Or as 3rd century Greek philosopher Sextus Empiricus put it, "The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind small." Over the centuries, this was updated to "the wheels of justice grind slowly, but exceedingly fine." Either way, this describes what is apparently happening with the various legal assaults on Trump and his family, company and followers.
Thank you for the update...I have long since shrugged at Trump investigations, which seem to wither within months of commencing, but I do have considerably more faith in Rocah's record than Vance's abysmal prosecutorial history.
I think Cyrus Vance should have left to try to make it in the private sector years ago. He's no Preet Bharara.
Just another aside, relevant to the NY Times article: the town of Ossining, NY, where Trump's Westchester golf course is located, is known widely as the home of Sing Sing penitentiary, where one might hope Trump will spend the rest of his days.
When I was growing up in the city, occasionally I'd hear about some crooks or mobster being sent "up the river." The meaning was that he/they were shipped up to Sing Sing.
Remember Cy Vance once was a lawyer that worked for Trump. He may not be as gung ho to arrest Trump as we all believed him to be.
I don't believe that this is accurate. He was either in the DA's office, teaching or working at a law firm. My concern is that he consistently refused to prosecute the wealthy or famous during his tenure, even dropping a solid case against the Trump 'children' (Trump SoHo fraud case), for which he was widely criticized.
I could've sworn that I read it somewhere. You are correct in what you have written.
*coup d'état - correct spelling
Absolutely
Democrats must stop worrying about what the GOP will do to them once the GOP regains the majority, and act decisively 1) clearly articulate the dangers of propaganda and authoritarianism, 2) use their powers of inherent contempt, 3) conduct public hearings into the most blatant transgressions of the Trump administration. Their constant dithering, fear of repercussions, and speeches about how no one is above the law (while allowing an entire administration to operate above the law) have disheartened the base and emboldened the GOP base. I have zero confidence that Democrats will do any of the 3, though I do think the presence of 2 Republicans on the 1/6 Committee has provided a clarity and backbone we would otherwise not have seen.
Well said. They need to be more concerned with OUR confidence and reactions. “Reaching across the aisle” to criminals just make them complicit. How many times do they need to be stabbed in the back to catch on to this!
Agreed.
Apply Section 3 of Amendment 14 to the U.S. Constitution to all involved in the Jan. 6 insurrection. And do it NOW. Section 3 states as follows:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Donald J. Trump should be disqualified by Congressional vote from ever holding any public office for the remainder of his life. And that needs to happen NOW. Why is he even allowed to have more rallies? WHY? WHY?
Since the Senate didn't have the votes to find Trump guilty in either impeachment, wouldn't the only way Section 3 could be applied would be through a guilty verdict for either of these offenses in a Court of Law?
James, yes.
This is so damn frustrating!
Until these people are put into jail many of us will lose our faith in the justice system in the US. We ruin people's lives over the possession of pot and allow white-collar crime that profits those able to hire the best lawyers.
Good point. Faith and belief in the justice system is what gets damaged watching it defer to power. You and I would indeed be in cuffs if we defied a county court much less a congressional supeona.
After months of these cronies going viral w/rallies, illegal foolery w/ballots & out & out inciting more violence, I think DOJ needs to instruct FBI to remove these terrorists off the grid to await any trials/reviews into their obvious crimes. They should be treated as PUBLIC ENEMY #1s & terrorists at this point. When we harm others freedoms, we inherently should lose that freedom to ensure Public Safety! X to act Mr Garland & use FBI now!! Start the Witch Hunt they say happened!! PERIOD! Our Democracy now calls for drastic action. DOJ needs to start crackdown! Donald & gang did & tried. How much more serious can be???
Yes but ... Garland and others need to move carefully as well as expeditiously. Several of the people involved in the January 6 riot are already arrested; some are in prison. The FBI continues to assess who they were and their degree of complicity. What's critical now is that Trump, Bannon, Meadows, and the members of Congress who helped them in this plot be exposed and indicted.
Something needs to be done in the meantime. People need to see some action from our democratic leaders. Republicans are counting on democratic lethargy, something that has been a hallmark of their behavior.
I can see your point Mr Reich but at this juncture how much more is law enforcement on the Federal Level going to continue to tip toe thru the tulips?? These folks are definitely a public menace & only know one way & that is to tie up the courts by the balls! 6 years of this is ENOUGH! The general public is sick of the scratching heads & it may sway voters to through in the towel cause we see no light or outcome except more of the same!
W/all due respect & I can somewhat agree what you’ve said, however when I council someone in AA & they use the BUT WORD in a sentence explaining their situation I tell them don’t say “BUT” because what they’re saying w/that word is telling me what comes out of BUTT!! The process needs emergency handling at this moment in x, therefore drastic measures are needed!! Thus 9/11 measures should be exercised, especially w/Kingpins involved!! Did Hoover play footsie w/John Dillinger & gang??
I agree with the sentiment of "How much more serious [can it] be???." I'm interested in seeing whether any posts here identify specific laws that were broken. Bonus points if the laws are ones with sharp, pointy teeth like RICO (anti-racketerring). Charging the FBI with stiffer enforcement of these laws while simultaneously raising public awareness that the laws exist and need to be enforced in this context would both be moves I'd welcome.
Mueller obstruction, federal tax evasion, election fraud, campaign finance fraud, best for last…inciting a deadly coup on the US government. There was no attempt to even cover up these crimes.
"Fear City," a three-part video series on the FBI's taking down of the Mafia, gives a fair bit of attention to how much easier it is to bring down a "soldier" than a boss, and to the hardest task of all -- proving a conspiracy among the bosses of the different families. That same difficulty applies here. Charging and convicting a few soldiers might feel good, but the real damage and the real need lies at the top. Mueller did his best with the tools available to the FBI. When the top resides in the White House and in Congress, additional powers are likely needed.
RICO laws
And that’s the short list
AGREED, but I'm not the person you need to talk to. Schumer, Garland and Biden need to hash this out yesterday. Do an op ed.
uscode.house.gov :§2383. Rebellion or insurrection
"Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States." *it's time to enforce this to the fullest extent of the law.
This was a direct attack on our country. I’d start by replacing Garland. We need the most aggressive person in this role now! But my chin is still on the ground as we watch republicans commit very serious crimes, protect perpetrators, give the US the middle finger, ignore laws they don’t like AND they simply get away with it. Trump et al should have been hand cuffed and taken to prison to await trial.
This is the very best way to discourage the voting public. I am way past disgusted. This is an atrocity!
I'd like Katie Porter to be in charge. She knows how to take action.
I love her. She is such a great example not only of how to address these republicans bu has charts too! 😊 Everyone can follow along on her points! I’m totally with you on this.
Even "atrocity" is an understatement. The longer nothing is done, the worse it all becomes and the more likely it is that people in power will continue to act illegally with impunity.
There really isn’t a word to describe what we’ve been forced to witness. But Authoritarian, Fascist, Psychotic, Murdering, Lunatics not held accountable are probably the starting words. 😑
Good idea about Garland. I don't understand why he has been so passive. I am not versed in law at all, though. Maybe there is a reason.
I will cheer if he pulls this together but deadly traitor terrorists like Trump et al should never be able to walk on our street and hold rallies. It’s a slap to the nation.
------- the problem is that nearly half this nation disagrees with you (and me... ) . how do we convince our friends and neighbors that they're wrong ? . . .
It isn't half and we can't. We also don't know how many 15, 16 and 17 year-olds disagree with us but (hopefully) will come 2024.
I've wondered what percentage of those who support Trump and his ilk have died from COVID because of their refusal to be vaccinated . . .
If, say, a black panther started a riot that did thousands of dollars in damage, the legal system wouldn’t hesitate for a minute to arrest and prosecute the leader!
Wasn't 1/6 just tfg's Beer Hall Putsch? A rehearsal for a more successful coup that is just in the offing?
Why are we allowing an insurrectionist to run for high office? Does anyone believe our fragile liberal democracy could actually withstand another presidency under tfg? Just asking...
My gut says that we are in for a civil war unless decisive action is taken against tfg, members of congress and insurrectionists.
I agree. I believe this might be our only hope. But then, Hitler was thrown in jail after his coup attempt but it didn't stop him. What I wonder is whether or not we have the testicular fortitude to ban tfg from office for good and to make it stick.
Sad that we have to compare the current state of affairs in the U.S. to Hitler, but the similarities are striking.
The civil war has already started; we are watching it play out.
Good point. I think the next phase will move us out of the subversive to more violence at poling locations, armed and dangerous vigilante groups, who are being whipped up by trump and his criminal tribe.
Honestly, the dems must address this. Take off the kid gloves and forget about “across the aisle” crap. The GQP doesn’t care. Move on.
A summary by Leading Psychologists conclude the following:
Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist with antisocial proclivities and a core sadism. It is this combination of psychopathology that leads him to be intensely attracted to the powers of a dictator. Indeed, Trump has proven repeatedly that he wants America to be an autocracy, not a democracy. He has systemically and purposefully guided our country toward dictatorial rule during the past four years in office. He has frequently embraced, admired, complimented, envied and even fawned over autocratic leaders throughout the world.
Donald Trump in a second term would be unstoppable. And America might be changed forever.
Trump seeks complete power and control. According to him, the president has absolute, all-encompassing authority. As such, Trump does not abide by norms or rules. He breaks laws with impunity. He interferes with all attempts at oversight and accountability. He believes that he is free to exert his power as he sees fit, no matter the motivation or legality or well-being of anyone other than Donald Trump.
This really upset me that all these psychologists were yelling that DJT was unfit. He should have been removed as a danger to the country.
Dump should be investigated by the DOJ and FBI. Pretty sure conspiracy to overthrow the U.S. government and constitution, is treason,or the very least a major felony. What good is voting for democrats to save democracy, if they refuse to hold criminals and traitors accountable ? Very dissapointed, frustrated, and disgusted
I think treason applies to betraying the country to external powers and sedition is for attempting to overthrow the government from within.
He should be banned from running for future office, jailed for insurrection, and lose his citizenship. Then he should be charged with manslaughter for turning COVID into a partisan problem....and causing unnecessary deaths.
He's just another white collar criminal that needs to be held accountable for his criminal behavior.
All true, yet we MUST get Mass Traction Economic progress;
Biden Must Find his way back as a REAL The Economic Populist;
Or we will just end up with another tRump clone, phony populist: scapgoating immigrants, ECT
PS > Good idea you have-- trump be charged with manslaughter for turning COVID into a partisan problem....and causing unnecessary deaths
My cousin Marie Equi was thrown into San Quentin by Woodrow Wilson for speaking our against World War I. She served two years for this. I think D. Trump and associates should get nothing less.
There's a tenuous case for Wilson being the first modern dictator. His 'God has endorsed me' assurance was taken up 15 admin's later by Bushie Boy, with Plan for a New Century as holy scripture ..