Thanks for this. Particularly, I liked the length, because it calls on the listener to reflect. I think I gave up on progress with the Iraq war, which I felt was fought over the disapproval of most Americans to no real good for anyone. But yet, today, Dick Cheney's own daughter is fighting both corruption in their own party and against collaboration with an authoritarian. So, rather than progress, I think we've entered a new stage in which we Americans (or at least some of us) are finally losing our sense of exceptionalism and acknowledging that we are indeed a part of the world. We are as vulnerable as anyone else, and maybe that recognition will awaken a broader sense of responsibility for our planet and for everyone on it.
Being a fly on the wall of your office sounds appealing. Listening in while I exercise will either ease the strain or double down on it. Either way I’ll benefit.
I really enjoyed being invited to this candid conversation with Heather Lofthouse. What a great idea to include this recording for the substack community.
I absolutely agree that age/generation plays a key role in how we view the world today. As a “baby boomer” I’m much more skeptical having grown up during the cold war with school nuclear safety drills, Cuban Missile Crisis and the feeling of fear if more than one military plane happened to fly over your house during training practices. Perhaps it’s easier to recognize current threats having lived them before.
My adult children have a much more relaxed view of the crisis’s around us, viewing threats as nothing we can’t stop in a millisecond. I just hope their optimism isn’t put to the test. Looking forward to more interviews, this was great!
Loved it! It's real time while I have my freshly brewed Assam tea! I applaud your willingness, Robert, to be so vulnerable about what you're feeling. You shared from the soul. I enjoy your Substack posts each day, but there was a deeper quality to what you said in this conversation. And, Heather is an additional breath of fresh air: intelligent, vibrant, fun, too! Robert, you will never be "old." I say the same things you said about myself, almost 79 years old, but I am too curious, too active, and have my art to sustain my optimism. I hear what you're saying, though, and I too am awake at night pondering. Ongoing stress has entered our lives. I believe that Heather has a point about the new normal and COPING MECHANISMS. I felt so safe, indeed was safe, growing up in the 1950s. I can't imagine what children feel like today. However, these challenging times may evolve into the awakening the world needs: be better human beings, care more, love all, be kind, listen to and understand those who are different. We are the generation that fought for Civil Rights, Women's Rights, and so much more. We cannot afford to grow old and grouchy. We must teach, inform, then pass on what is good, right, and noble to the next generation. 🌷
As one Old Git to another (I'm 80 this year) I reflect almost daily on how fortunate my particular life span has been. Here in the UK we had a superb free health service (now under threat from US commercial predation), free university (no longer) I missed conscription, I had the 60s. You too, I think have had a a particularly blessed period in the States, now in such danger. A few days ago I was celebrating a friend's 80th in a cafe when our attention was drawn to a sweet baby, no more than a few months old.
We wondered what she would reflect on when she turned 80....
I guess I’m a perennially optimistic boomer, but I think our young people will get us through this too. I’m tired, just tired, of girding up for battle yet again: on war, on women’s rights, on civil rights, on the environment, on workers’ rights….I thought I’d be sitting back, comfortably retired, in a happy healthy world by now. What the (bleep) happened? I do what I can & talk to my nephews. One of them is organizing for labor at his workplace like I did and I cheer him on from the sidelines! I guess everything goes in cycles, and if we persevere this too shall pass.
Professor Reich, I do think that aging has a lot to do with our growing unease/gloom. The conversation ended with a turn to the grandchild you love so well. And that is where I am as a 74 year old being. I want my children's, my granddaughters' lives to unfold with ease. Things are not going well. Our pain and dread are born of cause.
Great idea. My only wish is that technology could transcribe the talks and post, but no problem. Thanks for adding to this very enlightening forum.
As for the topic, I feel a rant coming on. You were dicussing an old enemy: worry (aka "fear.")
I don't know if the world is worse off now. I recall the bomb shelters, climate change was happening--we just didn't know it--and evil has always existed. In our lifetimes, a pandemic is new item. That and, aha, the Internet.
We're now inundated by bad news and an almost endless supply of TV shows, movies, documentaries, etc. emphasizing scary things. "Scary" sells. Shakespeare doesn't. Advertisers support what sells. We're saturated. (And by the very people who want to keep us powerless.)
Except in research, maybe it's pointless to worry whether things are worse now. If yes, then how, in general, would it help except to scare us more?
Thinking of fearful experiences on just my personal level, I come up with my first airplane solo, flying over the North Pole, (because, despite official decree, there really is no rescue plan), and a more pervasive factor, misogyny, especially in my career. Because of length and depth, the mysogeny has been harder to deal with. The concept of physical death is definitely scary, but long-term mental torture and degrading are challenging just due to extent. The ongoing Internet/bad news torment is a pervasive example of ongoing mental torture, so really tough to handle.
Two thoughts from two notable teachers have helped in handling fear. One is from my EST-trained Brandeis set design professor. Live theater can be scary. No matter what fool crisis we get ourselves into, "the show must go on," but our professor's yardstick helped to keep things in perspective. He'd ask a simple but existentialist question, "Did anyone die? If not, then what's the problem?" Many times, that obvious yet perhaps neglected ruler has helped me "just say no" to fear.
But your conversation involves nuclear war, with war news suddenly available 24/7. When someone could die, a bigger yardstick is required. My shrink school mentor, Irvin Yalom, has one for that. He asks, when it wasn't scary before you were born, why are you afraid it'll be scary after you die. Being a nuisance, I'd ask, what about the process of dying? Still, a true pilot, I get creeped out about being under the ground for infinity, and his question helps.
Facing fear, I need a third yardstick, also: can I do anything about it? Can I write letters, donate, offer some service, boycott something, and should I and do I choose to? If no, then my worrying is waste of precious life time.
Everyone has scary things to face. For me, the awesome reality wasn't nearly as scary as, every damned six months, multiple times, wrapping my takeoff hand around the throttles of a simulated Boeing 777, with women haters breathing down my neck, their evaluation pencils scratching, my locker room reputation and paycheck on the line. Bar none, toughest thing I've ever done. Brave guys would report feeling sick before a sim check. They had a fair chance. But I wasn't going to die--I just thought I was--so I have no rational choice but to force myself to stop worrying, shove the throttles up, and "fly."
A devout coward about things medical, I had a major operation. Same discipline: not a damn thing I can do about it, so stop thinking about it.
In his many books, my shrink mentor has another emphasis: engagement. We make our own meaning. Life, itself, has no intrinsic meaning. We have to work at keeping ourselves engaged in life, with activity that's meaningful to us in some positive way. I fortunately have a ton of projects, some paid; some, volunteer, for example working as a designer, writer, and treasurer for two non-profits. If I can't sleep for worrying unproductive at 3 A.M., I get up and focus on work, or even watch mindless but not scary TV.
Worry doesn't stay shut off, so unless one maintains a working degree of control over one's brain, worry can make one afraid to live and eat one alive.
So my question to myself about nuclear war threats: did you do your reasonable best to learn about the subject? Have you done whatever, if anything, you reasonably can do to prevent it? If, for example, you're Robert Reich and have opportunity tomorrow to tell government that, at 3 A.M., you came up with a good idea, then go for it. Stew! Creative, potentially productive worry is essential (as long as not doing lethal harm) But if worrying is not doing a damn, useful thing, then turn it off, because it can harm.
Despite what it keeps trying to tell me, I am in charge of my head. My proof to myself: I made it to mandatory retirement, frequently waved at the North Poll, and more. So many people have told me, "Oh, I always wanted to be a pilot." It's not free. I did scary things. Quit my job as a designer to fuel airplanes. Ran away from home to work in Wichita. Shut out the male pilots who knew a woman couldn't do it. Had I listened to that darned fear-mongering voice in my head, I'd have missed so much. In some ways, it wore me out, but another saying, "Better to wear out than rust out."
Fear wants it, but instead of worrying whether a bomb will blow me up, I've ranted against fear, now I'm gonna get up and do some work.
Sorry, I feel strongly about the bastard Fear. Damn bugger has tried so hard to take so much. Sometimes it's succeeded, too. But rarely without a fight!
In operational conusion: I can boycott greed, but nuclear war is a bigger puzzle. So, my question: what are the top three things that I, Ms Nobody, can actually do, that might genuinely be productive, to help prevent nuclear war?
With Roe V Wade being yanked away from us after years of progress, right wingers from the fringe being allowed to terrify and carry guns openly without permits, insurrectionists not being addressed or punished…I’m fearful we will not be able to turn this around any time soon! It is partly the fault of ALLOWING dangerous propaganda on the airwaves and NOT punishing traitors in a timely manner, if at all!
How does anyone read optimism into this? Ukrainians take up arms to protect their country, we allow losers of elections to take our voices away! Wake up people!!
Progress is not inevitable, so we have to work at it; but at least many positive values (peace, franchise broadened to all people etc) are far more prevalent than in previous centuries.
I liked the discussion. It reflects our family, and lays bare what we are all feeling regardless of generations...anxiety. Anxiety can be protective, if used to self inform, then launched proactively. If we perseveration, anxiety will eat us mercilessly. So, I’m going to cook, read, give and trust. Forward is always ahead of us.
Thanks for this. Particularly, I liked the length, because it calls on the listener to reflect. I think I gave up on progress with the Iraq war, which I felt was fought over the disapproval of most Americans to no real good for anyone. But yet, today, Dick Cheney's own daughter is fighting both corruption in their own party and against collaboration with an authoritarian. So, rather than progress, I think we've entered a new stage in which we Americans (or at least some of us) are finally losing our sense of exceptionalism and acknowledging that we are indeed a part of the world. We are as vulnerable as anyone else, and maybe that recognition will awaken a broader sense of responsibility for our planet and for everyone on it.
Being a fly on the wall of your office sounds appealing. Listening in while I exercise will either ease the strain or double down on it. Either way I’ll benefit.
Sure, why not. Get together with Heather Cox Richardson.
I really enjoyed being invited to this candid conversation with Heather Lofthouse. What a great idea to include this recording for the substack community.
I absolutely agree that age/generation plays a key role in how we view the world today. As a “baby boomer” I’m much more skeptical having grown up during the cold war with school nuclear safety drills, Cuban Missile Crisis and the feeling of fear if more than one military plane happened to fly over your house during training practices. Perhaps it’s easier to recognize current threats having lived them before.
My adult children have a much more relaxed view of the crisis’s around us, viewing threats as nothing we can’t stop in a millisecond. I just hope their optimism isn’t put to the test. Looking forward to more interviews, this was great!
Loved it! It's real time while I have my freshly brewed Assam tea! I applaud your willingness, Robert, to be so vulnerable about what you're feeling. You shared from the soul. I enjoy your Substack posts each day, but there was a deeper quality to what you said in this conversation. And, Heather is an additional breath of fresh air: intelligent, vibrant, fun, too! Robert, you will never be "old." I say the same things you said about myself, almost 79 years old, but I am too curious, too active, and have my art to sustain my optimism. I hear what you're saying, though, and I too am awake at night pondering. Ongoing stress has entered our lives. I believe that Heather has a point about the new normal and COPING MECHANISMS. I felt so safe, indeed was safe, growing up in the 1950s. I can't imagine what children feel like today. However, these challenging times may evolve into the awakening the world needs: be better human beings, care more, love all, be kind, listen to and understand those who are different. We are the generation that fought for Civil Rights, Women's Rights, and so much more. We cannot afford to grow old and grouchy. We must teach, inform, then pass on what is good, right, and noble to the next generation. 🌷
As one Old Git to another (I'm 80 this year) I reflect almost daily on how fortunate my particular life span has been. Here in the UK we had a superb free health service (now under threat from US commercial predation), free university (no longer) I missed conscription, I had the 60s. You too, I think have had a a particularly blessed period in the States, now in such danger. A few days ago I was celebrating a friend's 80th in a cafe when our attention was drawn to a sweet baby, no more than a few months old.
We wondered what she would reflect on when she turned 80....
I guess I’m a perennially optimistic boomer, but I think our young people will get us through this too. I’m tired, just tired, of girding up for battle yet again: on war, on women’s rights, on civil rights, on the environment, on workers’ rights….I thought I’d be sitting back, comfortably retired, in a happy healthy world by now. What the (bleep) happened? I do what I can & talk to my nephews. One of them is organizing for labor at his workplace like I did and I cheer him on from the sidelines! I guess everything goes in cycles, and if we persevere this too shall pass.
You’re the man Robert. I’m sure your conversations would be wonderful. I’m in. Thank you
Professor Reich, I do think that aging has a lot to do with our growing unease/gloom. The conversation ended with a turn to the grandchild you love so well. And that is where I am as a 74 year old being. I want my children's, my granddaughters' lives to unfold with ease. Things are not going well. Our pain and dread are born of cause.
This is a wonderful idea...enjoying your conversation with Heather over my coffee!
Great idea. My only wish is that technology could transcribe the talks and post, but no problem. Thanks for adding to this very enlightening forum.
As for the topic, I feel a rant coming on. You were dicussing an old enemy: worry (aka "fear.")
I don't know if the world is worse off now. I recall the bomb shelters, climate change was happening--we just didn't know it--and evil has always existed. In our lifetimes, a pandemic is new item. That and, aha, the Internet.
We're now inundated by bad news and an almost endless supply of TV shows, movies, documentaries, etc. emphasizing scary things. "Scary" sells. Shakespeare doesn't. Advertisers support what sells. We're saturated. (And by the very people who want to keep us powerless.)
Except in research, maybe it's pointless to worry whether things are worse now. If yes, then how, in general, would it help except to scare us more?
Thinking of fearful experiences on just my personal level, I come up with my first airplane solo, flying over the North Pole, (because, despite official decree, there really is no rescue plan), and a more pervasive factor, misogyny, especially in my career. Because of length and depth, the mysogeny has been harder to deal with. The concept of physical death is definitely scary, but long-term mental torture and degrading are challenging just due to extent. The ongoing Internet/bad news torment is a pervasive example of ongoing mental torture, so really tough to handle.
Two thoughts from two notable teachers have helped in handling fear. One is from my EST-trained Brandeis set design professor. Live theater can be scary. No matter what fool crisis we get ourselves into, "the show must go on," but our professor's yardstick helped to keep things in perspective. He'd ask a simple but existentialist question, "Did anyone die? If not, then what's the problem?" Many times, that obvious yet perhaps neglected ruler has helped me "just say no" to fear.
But your conversation involves nuclear war, with war news suddenly available 24/7. When someone could die, a bigger yardstick is required. My shrink school mentor, Irvin Yalom, has one for that. He asks, when it wasn't scary before you were born, why are you afraid it'll be scary after you die. Being a nuisance, I'd ask, what about the process of dying? Still, a true pilot, I get creeped out about being under the ground for infinity, and his question helps.
Facing fear, I need a third yardstick, also: can I do anything about it? Can I write letters, donate, offer some service, boycott something, and should I and do I choose to? If no, then my worrying is waste of precious life time.
Everyone has scary things to face. For me, the awesome reality wasn't nearly as scary as, every damned six months, multiple times, wrapping my takeoff hand around the throttles of a simulated Boeing 777, with women haters breathing down my neck, their evaluation pencils scratching, my locker room reputation and paycheck on the line. Bar none, toughest thing I've ever done. Brave guys would report feeling sick before a sim check. They had a fair chance. But I wasn't going to die--I just thought I was--so I have no rational choice but to force myself to stop worrying, shove the throttles up, and "fly."
A devout coward about things medical, I had a major operation. Same discipline: not a damn thing I can do about it, so stop thinking about it.
In his many books, my shrink mentor has another emphasis: engagement. We make our own meaning. Life, itself, has no intrinsic meaning. We have to work at keeping ourselves engaged in life, with activity that's meaningful to us in some positive way. I fortunately have a ton of projects, some paid; some, volunteer, for example working as a designer, writer, and treasurer for two non-profits. If I can't sleep for worrying unproductive at 3 A.M., I get up and focus on work, or even watch mindless but not scary TV.
Worry doesn't stay shut off, so unless one maintains a working degree of control over one's brain, worry can make one afraid to live and eat one alive.
So my question to myself about nuclear war threats: did you do your reasonable best to learn about the subject? Have you done whatever, if anything, you reasonably can do to prevent it? If, for example, you're Robert Reich and have opportunity tomorrow to tell government that, at 3 A.M., you came up with a good idea, then go for it. Stew! Creative, potentially productive worry is essential (as long as not doing lethal harm) But if worrying is not doing a damn, useful thing, then turn it off, because it can harm.
Despite what it keeps trying to tell me, I am in charge of my head. My proof to myself: I made it to mandatory retirement, frequently waved at the North Poll, and more. So many people have told me, "Oh, I always wanted to be a pilot." It's not free. I did scary things. Quit my job as a designer to fuel airplanes. Ran away from home to work in Wichita. Shut out the male pilots who knew a woman couldn't do it. Had I listened to that darned fear-mongering voice in my head, I'd have missed so much. In some ways, it wore me out, but another saying, "Better to wear out than rust out."
Fear wants it, but instead of worrying whether a bomb will blow me up, I've ranted against fear, now I'm gonna get up and do some work.
Sorry, I feel strongly about the bastard Fear. Damn bugger has tried so hard to take so much. Sometimes it's succeeded, too. But rarely without a fight!
In operational conusion: I can boycott greed, but nuclear war is a bigger puzzle. So, my question: what are the top three things that I, Ms Nobody, can actually do, that might genuinely be productive, to help prevent nuclear war?
With Roe V Wade being yanked away from us after years of progress, right wingers from the fringe being allowed to terrify and carry guns openly without permits, insurrectionists not being addressed or punished…I’m fearful we will not be able to turn this around any time soon! It is partly the fault of ALLOWING dangerous propaganda on the airwaves and NOT punishing traitors in a timely manner, if at all!
How does anyone read optimism into this? Ukrainians take up arms to protect their country, we allow losers of elections to take our voices away! Wake up people!!
Progress is not inevitable, so we have to work at it; but at least many positive values (peace, franchise broadened to all people etc) are far more prevalent than in previous centuries.
Not exactly a fireside chat, but coffee klatch havens are a warm embracing idea
filled time we’d love you to share here Robert, bravo!!
That was an interesting conversation
I liked the discussion. It reflects our family, and lays bare what we are all feeling regardless of generations...anxiety. Anxiety can be protective, if used to self inform, then launched proactively. If we perseveration, anxiety will eat us mercilessly. So, I’m going to cook, read, give and trust. Forward is always ahead of us.