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Thanks for this. Particularly, I liked the length, because it calls on the listener to reflect. I think I gave up on progress with the Iraq war, which I felt was fought over the disapproval of most Americans to no real good for anyone. But yet, today, Dick Cheney's own daughter is fighting both corruption in their own party and against collaboration with an authoritarian. So, rather than progress, I think we've entered a new stage in which we Americans (or at least some of us) are finally losing our sense of exceptionalism and acknowledging that we are indeed a part of the world. We are as vulnerable as anyone else, and maybe that recognition will awaken a broader sense of responsibility for our planet and for everyone on it.

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Giving up the myth of American exceptionalism is itself a form of progress.

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America has been exceptional in that the country came into being based on the idea that “all men are created equal.” Sadly, we stopped there. Everyone else except wealthy, straight, white men have been fighting and clawing to claim their part of the equality pie. So much potential has been wasted over the centuries.

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I don't know. If not being exceptional would mean we have to give up on the vision and aim of being a great country I would veto the idea. Perhaps exceptionalism, though, isn't the best word if we're telling everyone else we are better than them, or if we think we are. However, I'm inspired by us trying to be our best. Of course we are human, but we get what we put our attention on and I hope our vision of America and it's future is to be the best we can be, doing right by all, and, of course create a sustainable, even more beautiful future for future people and their children...and set a good example. I even think we should take as much responsibility as we can for the whole planet and the future of everyone, as should all countries and their people. We need to do this for all of us as we are all here together on this planet. We'll have to work something out.

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Mar 19, 2022Liked by Heather Lofthouse

Being a fly on the wall of your office sounds appealing. Listening in while I exercise will either ease the strain or double down on it. Either way I’ll benefit.

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Good!

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Sure, why not. Get together with Heather Cox Richardson.

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Good idea, Martha.

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Mar 19, 2022Liked by Heather Lofthouse

I really enjoyed being invited to this candid conversation with Heather Lofthouse. What a great idea to include this recording for the substack community.

I absolutely agree that age/generation plays a key role in how we view the world today. As a “baby boomer” I’m much more skeptical having grown up during the cold war with school nuclear safety drills, Cuban Missile Crisis and the feeling of fear if more than one military plane happened to fly over your house during training practices. Perhaps it’s easier to recognize current threats having lived them before.

My adult children have a much more relaxed view of the crisis’s around us, viewing threats as nothing we can’t stop in a millisecond. I just hope their optimism isn’t put to the test. Looking forward to more interviews, this was great!

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I am not sure my adult children share this hope. A good conversation overdue.

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Loved it! It's real time while I have my freshly brewed Assam tea! I applaud your willingness, Robert, to be so vulnerable about what you're feeling. You shared from the soul. I enjoy your Substack posts each day, but there was a deeper quality to what you said in this conversation. And, Heather is an additional breath of fresh air: intelligent, vibrant, fun, too! Robert, you will never be "old." I say the same things you said about myself, almost 79 years old, but I am too curious, too active, and have my art to sustain my optimism. I hear what you're saying, though, and I too am awake at night pondering. Ongoing stress has entered our lives. I believe that Heather has a point about the new normal and COPING MECHANISMS. I felt so safe, indeed was safe, growing up in the 1950s. I can't imagine what children feel like today. However, these challenging times may evolve into the awakening the world needs: be better human beings, care more, love all, be kind, listen to and understand those who are different. We are the generation that fought for Civil Rights, Women's Rights, and so much more. We cannot afford to grow old and grouchy. We must teach, inform, then pass on what is good, right, and noble to the next generation. 🌷

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Exactly. The more we teach, inform, and pass on to future generations what we've learned, the more generative -- and less grouchy -- we'll be.

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I know this to be true through direct experience! I really borrowed my thought from Psalm 71 when David was aging, pleading with God, he said:" And even when I am old and gray, do not forsake me until I DECLARE strength to this generation and the power to ALL who are to come." I'm not religious, but I read my Bible in times past, which is a good book to know. Robert, you are doing this, even if grouchy, 😉 when you teach, speak, write. Don't stop. I won't either.

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Coping mechanisms are not enough. We must make tough decisions on when to fight and when to stand down. And we must teach our children how to make such decisions.

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As one Old Git to another (I'm 80 this year) I reflect almost daily on how fortunate my particular life span has been. Here in the UK we had a superb free health service (now under threat from US commercial predation), free university (no longer) I missed conscription, I had the 60s. You too, I think have had a a particularly blessed period in the States, now in such danger. A few days ago I was celebrating a friend's 80th in a cafe when our attention was drawn to a sweet baby, no more than a few months old.

We wondered what she would reflect on when she turned 80....

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We used to have affordable university tuition, and non-profit health care, as it should be! You are in my parents generation but I consider myself to have had an ideal childhood, good young adult opportunities. For almost all my entire working life, savings interest has been nil. My parents did superbly on their savings. But I grew up with Roe V Wade before my adulthood. I cannot imagine living with a reversal of that. And the guns must go! I’m not talking about “sensible” gun laws. No more guns! We ARE the ONLY advanced nation in the WORLD allowing such idiocy. The NRA and rt wing nuts have lied about the purpose of the 2nd Amendment. And many Dems thought they couldn’t win without coddling these idiots. Time for an overhaul!

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Couldn’t agree more!!

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I guess I’m a perennially optimistic boomer, but I think our young people will get us through this too. I’m tired, just tired, of girding up for battle yet again: on war, on women’s rights, on civil rights, on the environment, on workers’ rights….I thought I’d be sitting back, comfortably retired, in a happy healthy world by now. What the (bleep) happened? I do what I can & talk to my nephews. One of them is organizing for labor at his workplace like I did and I cheer him on from the sidelines! I guess everything goes in cycles, and if we persevere this too shall pass.

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Cynthia, I get it. Some days I say the same thing to myself -- too tired to gird up for battle yet again. And yet the battle against totalitarian fascism in all its forms -- the battle for human rights, social justice, and democracy -- is the central battle in America and the world today. On those days when I feel too tired for it, I ask myself: What else would you do?

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Many young people give me hope. They are seeing through many things today, especially mental and physical attacks on LGBTQ friends. And they are not having it! 👏🏻👏🏻

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You’re the man Robert. I’m sure your conversations would be wonderful. I’m in. Thank you

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Professor Reich, I do think that aging has a lot to do with our growing unease/gloom. The conversation ended with a turn to the grandchild you love so well. And that is where I am as a 74 year old being. I want my children's, my granddaughters' lives to unfold with ease. Things are not going well. Our pain and dread are born of cause.

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This is a wonderful idea...enjoying your conversation with Heather over my coffee!

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Great idea. My only wish is that technology could transcribe the talks and post, but no problem. Thanks for adding to this very enlightening forum.

As for the topic, I feel a rant coming on. You were dicussing an old enemy: worry (aka "fear.")

I don't know if the world is worse off now. I recall the bomb shelters, climate change was happening--we just didn't know it--and evil has always existed. In our lifetimes, a pandemic is new item. That and, aha, the Internet.

We're now inundated by bad news and an almost endless supply of TV shows, movies, documentaries, etc. emphasizing scary things. "Scary" sells. Shakespeare doesn't. Advertisers support what sells. We're saturated. (And by the very people who want to keep us powerless.)

Except in research, maybe it's pointless to worry whether things are worse now. If yes, then how, in general, would it help except to scare us more?

Thinking of fearful experiences on just my personal level, I come up with my first airplane solo, flying over the North Pole, (because, despite official decree, there really is no rescue plan), and a more pervasive factor, misogyny, especially in my career. Because of length and depth, the mysogeny has been harder to deal with. The concept of physical death is definitely scary, but long-term mental torture and degrading are challenging just due to extent. The ongoing Internet/bad news torment is a pervasive example of ongoing mental torture, so really tough to handle.

Two thoughts from two notable teachers have helped in handling fear. One is from my EST-trained Brandeis set design professor. Live theater can be scary. No matter what fool crisis we get ourselves into, "the show must go on," but our professor's yardstick helped to keep things in perspective. He'd ask a simple but existentialist question, "Did anyone die? If not, then what's the problem?" Many times, that obvious yet perhaps neglected ruler has helped me "just say no" to fear.

But your conversation involves nuclear war, with war news suddenly available 24/7. When someone could die, a bigger yardstick is required. My shrink school mentor, Irvin Yalom, has one for that. He asks, when it wasn't scary before you were born, why are you afraid it'll be scary after you die. Being a nuisance, I'd ask, what about the process of dying? Still, a true pilot, I get creeped out about being under the ground for infinity, and his question helps.

Facing fear, I need a third yardstick, also: can I do anything about it? Can I write letters, donate, offer some service, boycott something, and should I and do I choose to? If no, then my worrying is waste of precious life time.

Everyone has scary things to face. For me, the awesome reality wasn't nearly as scary as, every damned six months, multiple times, wrapping my takeoff hand around the throttles of a simulated Boeing 777, with women haters breathing down my neck, their evaluation pencils scratching, my locker room reputation and paycheck on the line. Bar none, toughest thing I've ever done. Brave guys would report feeling sick before a sim check. They had a fair chance. But I wasn't going to die--I just thought I was--so I have no rational choice but to force myself to stop worrying, shove the throttles up, and "fly."

A devout coward about things medical, I had a major operation. Same discipline: not a damn thing I can do about it, so stop thinking about it.

In his many books, my shrink mentor has another emphasis: engagement. We make our own meaning. Life, itself, has no intrinsic meaning. We have to work at keeping ourselves engaged in life, with activity that's meaningful to us in some positive way. I fortunately have a ton of projects, some paid; some, volunteer, for example working as a designer, writer, and treasurer for two non-profits. If I can't sleep for worrying unproductive at 3 A.M., I get up and focus on work, or even watch mindless but not scary TV.

Worry doesn't stay shut off, so unless one maintains a working degree of control over one's brain, worry can make one afraid to live and eat one alive.

So my question to myself about nuclear war threats: did you do your reasonable best to learn about the subject? Have you done whatever, if anything, you reasonably can do to prevent it? If, for example, you're Robert Reich and have opportunity tomorrow to tell government that, at 3 A.M., you came up with a good idea, then go for it. Stew! Creative, potentially productive worry is essential (as long as not doing lethal harm) But if worrying is not doing a damn, useful thing, then turn it off, because it can harm.

Despite what it keeps trying to tell me, I am in charge of my head. My proof to myself: I made it to mandatory retirement, frequently waved at the North Poll, and more. So many people have told me, "Oh, I always wanted to be a pilot." It's not free. I did scary things. Quit my job as a designer to fuel airplanes. Ran away from home to work in Wichita. Shut out the male pilots who knew a woman couldn't do it. Had I listened to that darned fear-mongering voice in my head, I'd have missed so much. In some ways, it wore me out, but another saying, "Better to wear out than rust out."

Fear wants it, but instead of worrying whether a bomb will blow me up, I've ranted against fear, now I'm gonna get up and do some work.

Sorry, I feel strongly about the bastard Fear. Damn bugger has tried so hard to take so much. Sometimes it's succeeded, too. But rarely without a fight!

In operational conusion: I can boycott greed, but nuclear war is a bigger puzzle. So, my question: what are the top three things that I, Ms Nobody, can actually do, that might genuinely be productive, to help prevent nuclear war?

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👏👏👏👏👏My husband is a private pilot. He would love to hear your stories. He is very supportive of women pilots and women in general. As for your question, you say you’re a designer. Make something anti-war and get it out there. Also write and make calls. Stopping Putin, that I don’t know. I’m not sure anyone does. Let’s keep working together though.

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Cheers to your husband. Always keep the shiny side up!

Thanks for the suggestions. Competition among writers and designers for the public's attention is fierce. Challenging even to find a volunteer spot. I write and design mostly for a non-profit that I co-founded. We work in the field, though, not with the public, so no audience. There's a lot of untapped ability out there. As with a consumer's union, the planet needs more good organizers. That's not my talent. I'd volunteer to write and design, but, then again, that's a labor issue. If the work is enjoyable, like flying, design, or acting, so many people are willing to do it for free that it's difficult to make it a career. Some aspects of the airline pilots union really damage some workers. On the other hand, if it weren't for a union, your friendly airline pilots would be minimally qualified and flying for free, with many deserving the pay. Pay cuts are how we came to have a shortage of qualified ailine pilot candidates now. Too many pilot/not enough/willing to fly for free-- a cyclic tangle perpetuated largely by corporate greed. Writers and designers don't have such strong unions. They don't have the bargaining chip of safety. I hesitate to volunteer to write or design. It can take away paid job potential. Depends on for whom. I do write about some issues, like now, but how many listen, lol? Gotta have a platform. Social media influencing isn't my talent. But I'll watch for something useful to do to prevent annihilation!

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Okay, how about these: Major anti-nuclear groups include Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace, International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, Peace Action and the Nuclear Information and Resource Service.

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Interesting, thanks. I read their web sites. One group does demonstrate against NATO, but--serious question--which group do you think has both Putin's ear and wisdom enough to stop him from pushing the button should he decide he'd like to? I don't see a likely candidate among activist groups. If anyone could succeed, I think it'd more likely be one individual smart enough to put a bug in Putin's ear suggesting an "out" that would prop up his ego and disarm him at the same time.

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I wish I had the expertise to answer your question but I don’t. If you’re specifically focused on Putin I don’t know how far you’re going to get. I don’t know how to deal with megalomaniacs. But maybe if you talk to these groups they’ll have some thoughts on that. What you’re really talking about is psychology and diplomacy. You might do some googling about that. Sorry. I wish I knew more. But BTW, thank you for the information on flying. I know about the pilot shortage and about how much people have to sacrifice to become a commercial pilot. It’s quite a mess—and totally unnecessary IMO. And I can only imagine what you’ve gone through as a woman in the field.

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With Roe V Wade being yanked away from us after years of progress, right wingers from the fringe being allowed to terrify and carry guns openly without permits, insurrectionists not being addressed or punished…I’m fearful we will not be able to turn this around any time soon! It is partly the fault of ALLOWING dangerous propaganda on the airwaves and NOT punishing traitors in a timely manner, if at all!

How does anyone read optimism into this? Ukrainians take up arms to protect their country, we allow losers of elections to take our voices away! Wake up people!!

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Maybe as Robert has suggested we should lobby to bring back the fairness doctrine. I never liked it because some things simply don’t have two sides, but now it might help counter some of the lies. Also it occurred to me yesterday that broadcasters have to be licensed. Can’t we get the FCC to yank Fox’s license?

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I’ve signed several petitions to get Faux News taken down and also to remove it as an option on my car, cable etc. It promotes lies and creates security risks. It is not free speech. Police don’t allow many BLM protests to proceed, no one screams 1st amendment right for that, kneeling in silent protest is a Constitutional right, but Kaepernick loses job, is harassed, no one yells 1st Amendment right for him. So SHUT OFF Fox, OAN & others.

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Totally agree. Maybe it’s time to write to the FCC directly. BTW, love Colin. He’s awesome. Have you followed his work with Know Your Rights Camp? They’re great.

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Progress is not inevitable, so we have to work at it; but at least many positive values (peace, franchise broadened to all people etc) are far more prevalent than in previous centuries.

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Yes, but humanity has worked for progress and caused it to happen. Let's not let one mean man or a hundred of them ruin our lives. Stop them!

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Not exactly a fireside chat, but coffee klatch havens are a warm embracing idea

filled time we’d love you to share here Robert, bravo!!

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That was an interesting conversation

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HCR is an amazing talent and voice for everyone who reads here!!

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I liked the discussion. It reflects our family, and lays bare what we are all feeling regardless of generations...anxiety. Anxiety can be protective, if used to self inform, then launched proactively. If we perseveration, anxiety will eat us mercilessly. So, I’m going to cook, read, give and trust. Forward is always ahead of us.

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