After the former president has been convicted and found guilty of these heinous crimes against the United States of America, for the good of this country, and as a bold warning for future elected officials and political parties to abstain from antidemocracy objectives, it is essential that Donald Trump and anyone else involved serve the maximum time in time in prison for their crimes.
As Norman Griffin says, Trump needs to receive the maximum sentence. Before that, we may have some serious problems with Aileen Cannon, which are best resolved now, before she gets control of the trial portion of this case. I'm afraid she'll run out the clock. MAYBE she'll have a change of heart after the 11th circuit's humiliating rebukes of her in the last go 'round, but the PEOPLE need a fair trial. They don't need to be beaten up again by this sleaze. That said, that he was so spectacularly indicted -- 37 counts!! -- and the truth laid out so clearly in a 37-count indictment is a profound blessing. Immense gratitude to Smith and the grand jury. Well done!
Unfortunately life tenure makes that effectively impossible. The Federal bench has some of the finest examples of ethical and principled public servants. What I learned as a Federal law clerk, however, was that not all judges are the highest caliber. Some are petty, petulant, and pompous political hacks. Their political leanings do not always predict performance.
The credibility of the Federal bench is on the line now as never before. Let’s hope that the Judiciary in SD Fla. rises the the occasion.
Yes, Cannon is the very scary part for the reaon/s you point out. We can only hope that the meticulous handling and planning of this case by Jack Smith included the possibility of her assignment, along with a gameplan for dealing with it. He seems to have left no stone unturned. EXTREMELY impressive. Should give us hope for a change.
I believe his case and evidence is tight. I’m glad it’s this judge and this location. Fewer delays and fewer conspiracy theories, hopefully. I wonder if there’s a lawyer to take on this client—loudmouth, lying, grifting, scumbag.
It weakens trump’s argument that it’s an unfair trial. Also the man charged with him. Brilliant strokes in support of a fair trial for actual Federal crimes.
Trump’s crimes prove that he’s never served in the military. What was it bunions? I can’t remember.
Here's the thing. I've already heard some of ol' Tweety's apologists whining about "equal justice under the law," then regurgitating their standard "whatabout" tropes concerning Clinton & Biden. That's a complete evasion of the question regarding equal treatment under the law.
I'll express that essence with the simple rhetorical question: what would have happened to >any< of us here had we been caught pulling the same $#!7 ol' Tweety pulled, that's already public knowledge, and that ol' Tweety's publicly bragged about? Make sure ol' Tweety gets what any of us would've gotten - months & months ago!
That's the true meaning of equal treatment under the law, in a land that rejects kings and the legal privileges of royalty, >as well as< regardless of race, creed, national origin, family ties, wealth, rank, public office, or - dare I mention - political perspective.
I ask again, what would have happened to any of us here had we been caught involved with any of this? :
FD-1023 is a form used to report information from an informant that HAS NOT been verified. The Republicans are all a twittering about an FD-1023 that contains dirt on the Bidens. Again, by definition, this is UNVERIFIED information.
We here at my house are wondering, too, why the press is not covering the overt efforts on the Right to foment actual armed revolution they call Boogaloo … I know we keep talking about armament and militiias and the dangers they present, and we discuss individuals creating havoc with the idea of revolution in their hearts.
But we rarely hear about Boogaloo, or about Steve Bannon stating categorically that he wants to “blow it all up,” when discussing our democracy …
Where is the focused and detailed reporting on that?
It is not off topic! It is exactly the TOPIC every honest and educated person should demand to hear over and over and over and over until these dangerous snipers are rounded up and given time alone! ( in a cell)!
You realize don't you, that the Rosenbergs, DC socialites who were only - but provably - socially involved with Russian agents, got fried in the electric chair? The claim was that they passed nuclear secrets. It's unclear whether they were >ever< actually in possession of said secrets to pass in the first place. Ol' Tweety, on the other hand . . .
Nothing else fixes this. We either mean “we live by the law” or we do not.
So far we have seen that many do not ( including trained lawyers). In fact the corruption of so much by so many over the last 50 years has made us a simple “ banana republic”.
I am a person who does not judge another by anything except by their commitment to truth and to empathy.
It is time America rewards her citizens who have steadfastly supported her best qualities. Truth, Law, equality and a “give back spirit” for all that our country has the power to deliver.
Totally agree, Norman Griffin! As Malcolm Nance eloquently wrote today on SPECIAL INTELLIGENCE, " if we are a nation of laws and the former president committed these crimes, then prison is not just an option. It is the only form of justice that will renew our faith and bring us back towards the arc of a more perfect union."
makes one wonder how Secret Service fits into that picture... Wonder if he'd simply be restrained to mar a lago or similar; hard core house arrest. I would LOVE for him to be in real prison (not 'country club' prison) and WITHOUT Secret Service. That's where the rest of us would go if we committed the same crimes. He's put the entire country at risk, and other countries the same. I'm beyond disgusted. At the very least, we need to change the requirements for candidates running for the presidency (and OTHER offices) so that anyone convicted of a felony is unable to run... whether the perp is appealing or not, because it's pretty clear that con men like tfg cannot be shamed into dropping out.
so if a Republican is elected President in 2024 they could pardon Trump. Could happen. Not sure about the likely timing here. If Trump were elected Prez he could pardon himself ?
Jun 10, 2023·edited Jun 10, 2023Liked by Heather Lofthouse
In my view, the deep and pervasive corruption that has been building for decades and that has settled upon the republic has reached an inflection point. I believe the outcome of this latest indictment will greatly effect whether we are a country governed by the rule of law or whether the rule of law is deemed subjugated to an individual.
I hope so Barbara. But I have another narrative in my head that says though Trump may get justice, that deep and pervasive corruption, (and public disengagement),that's been building for decades that you mentioned doesn't just go away with a conviction, even of a former President. We have huge problems. I think we have been taking 2 steps backward and 1 step forward for a very long time. So is this an inflection point, or a blip in a longer term trend ?
The real point for justice might be made if DOJ also follows through w/ investigating and indicting enablers like meadows, bannon, iuliani, etc etc right on down to people now serving in the US House and Senate and even key positions in state governments ... AND non-government people who enabled, at least through financing..
Apparently they are looking at Meadows. Giuliani has had his law license suspended {I think it still is}, and Bannon was tried and convicted for some of his financial criminality, for which he was pardoned by Trumph. I don’t know if he can be tried for fomenting civil war — maybe he’s too careful of his rhetoric for that, unlike a lot of the others …
But, I would be cautious of instituting a purge — and yet, not let something like “optics” prevent doing what’s the right thing to do.
This is the line our DOJ and others in the legal sphere must walk daily, and wrestle with how to keep {and fix?} the democracy and republic we value so much.
Not sure where to post my favorite litote but mine is appropriate for when I feel I do not want to become cynical or give up on the Democratic party. It is from a scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "I'm not dead."
Historically speaking Donald Trump will become the bottom of the barrel that buffoons of the future will be compared to. I seriously doubt there will ever be anyone worse that will have the effects this man has had on our country. Trump is aboard the flag ship of egocentric narcissists sailing toward the edge of a flat universe. It won't take 80 days to see the results of this voyage. McCarthy is saying the investigation into Trumps activities is a sham, one that is poorly orchestrated. Who cares what it takes to catch a thief. Grant and Kelly seemed to enjoy themselves. In the old days they used to chop off your hand for the crime. If that penalty still existed Trump would look like Venus de Milo's brother.
This indictment most certainly SHOULD spell the beginning of the end of Trump's political career. It SHOULD spell the beginning of the end of his freedom. It SHOULD spell the beginning of the end of his ability to divide and confuse and mislead people.
Unfortunately, our justice system is less than perfect in effecting the high ideals of justice. Through some error on the part of the DOJ or some tiny technicality or whatever might happen, it's possible that he could get off completely. He could even again become president, which would be a complete travesty. There is absolutely no way to predict or know what the result will be. We can only hope for the best.
We the People can only hope for the system to work well and to lead to a conviction on all counts against him. And hopefully it will not be a long, dragged out, painful process for us all to endure. Furthermore, we need for everyone to accept whatever the result of the process might be. If he is let off the hook, we will need to accept that and deal with the consequences. If he is convicted, his die-hard supporters will need to accept that and deal with the consequences.
Either way, there will undoubtedly be trouble, possibly including violence, and we will all have to deal with whatever happens. Hopefully, our country, our government, our citizens will all be strong enough and stable enough to withstand all that is yet to come of this.
IE: WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS!! THE PRESIDENTS, WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS, ARE MERE PUPPETS OF OUR RULING CLASS OLIGARCHS AND THEIR RELENTLESS THIRST FOR PROFITS FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR VICIOUS, VENAL BLOOD LUSTS!
I think its time to calm down and see our world clearly and make rational plans to deal with the realities that make us want to yell and holler.
Angry against angry is just going to make everything worse. Determined and savvy and strategic is what we need. That means learning and talking to each other …
Perhaps the end of Tr*mp, but there remains his legacy: Tr*mpism - the anti-democracy party of willful ignorance, wanton violence, and white grievance.
I do not believe in Trumpism without Trump. What we have witnessed is, IMO, a cult of personality. Getting mentally unbalanced people to do strange things -- like Marsh Applewhite or Jim Jones, only on a mass scale. For sure, someone with fascist, authoritarian principles will arise -- but it won't be trumpism. Yeah, Trump held up a bible and all that -- but this future person will be much more overtly religious.
Hi Laurie. When he used some type of tear gas to clear out peaceful protesters from Lafayette Square on June 1, 2020 -- all for a photo op holding a bible in front of St. John's Episcopal Church -- the reports went out the bible was upside-down. That part of the story was not true.
This was after he made a call to mayors and public officials to "get tough" with the people protesting the killing of George Floyd.
A conviction will, as I said above, be something we need, and something to work with — because, as you are ALL saying, there will still be a lot of work to do. Nobody should oughta relax, persons!!
Those who follow history know that the R’s have been orchestrating this power take-over from the grass-roots up for decades — at least since Reagan, doing it in the open. McConnell gave them an ENORMOUS push by being willing to subvert the nominating process for the Supreme Court and pack that very court. Amazing but not surprising that he had the nerve to do that for not only one, but for two justices — Kavanaugh and Coney Barrett!!
So, yeah, I hope to hell the country gets the conviction it deserves, vis a vis Mr. Trumph. And I hope we have a plan for how to continue afterward — to proceed with solidifying our democracy against these autocrats.
{I do see ONE oddly reassuring bit of reality in all this — when the worst [or among the worst] shenanigans in the White House came down the pike, namely the attempt to subvert our last presidential election, it was Trump’s own people and Republicans in office—both elected and career—who held the line and subverted the jerk. And they are numerous in the ranks of people who have testified to Congress and these DOJ guys about what the Autocrats tried to do.
I think “the Deep State” means careerr people who keep the machine running right. I know it’s supposed to be pejorative, but maybe it means the working parts we actually depend on …
Yes, Thomas, there's a cult of personality. However, ignorance stemming from poor education is what leads people to join cults. Sadly... it happens all too often.
Material man. In terms of transactional analysis, his WATNA is jail and bankruptcy. His BATNA is the three R's that I learned from trial practice: retribution, retaliation and remuneration.
In October he has a trial date in the NY state case that could render a judgment of a $billion. He has to have contingent liabilities for a lot more than that.
Even if he gets retribution, becomes president, even if he puts guys like me in jail, bankruptcy protection is not available for fraud.
Oh, man, I’ve thought that, too, but wondered … !!! Whether he’d leave the country for a non-extradition spot. He actually has far less REAL money than he projects. A lot of what he has is claim to real estate and a cash flow that I suspect is a little iffy now and then.
Maybe he could run off to a part of the world where the living is cheap, and he’d just have to sell one of his gold toilets or something, to get a stash of getaway cash.
I wonder if foreign actors would put him up on their estates?
For sure, Putin would pay him for info on the US …
In re this federal indictment, $50 to a mutually agreed upon charity says he won't skip, he will be convicted, he will be declared ineligible to run for office. End of wager. Speculation:
His sentence might include time in the same cushy prison that his ex-attorney Michael Cohen occupied - FCI Otisville. Of course, the location where a convicted felon does time is up to the Bureau of Prisons.
But consider the judge. Although Miami is a "rocket docket" jurisdiction and a trial could be over by October under the speedy trial rule which requires a trial 70 days from indictment, the odds are just as likely that Judge Cannon will try to consolidate all Trump's cases, state and federal to her court and perform a pretrial intervention, withholding all potential criminal liability because he is arguably still president. Withhold adjudication until after the election..
DOJ can appeal, but this is Florida. Our governor has his own police force. Has his own foreign policy. Observes his own form of due process.
I used to live two blocks from municipios en exilio, local governments in exile, all part of the Cuban government in exile. Huber Matos was treated locally as if he, not Fidel Castro, was president of Cuba. US officials like George Herbert Walker Bush, publicly treated him as if he had diplomatic relations and was the true Cuban leader.
Apparently Judge Cannon was born and raised in that milieu.
When she was named an AUSA she had to have been hired by Democrat Wilfredo Ferrer ( aka Comandante Willie) who had been in DOJ in DC when Janet Reno was the AG.
I can send you a picture of her when as an AUSA, she was in Trump regalia. That has to be a Hatch Act violation. It's on my Facebook page.
She attended prep school across the street where I used to live. Odds are she got affirmative action to go to school.
Everyone says she was in appeals because she was not trusted to handle trials.
IMHO she should have been referred to the Judicial Conference because she wrongfully accepted jurisdiction and venue in the civil case. She was reamed twice by a conservative 11th Circuit Court.
Jack Smith can file a motion to ask her to recuse. Attach a copy of that picture. Cite to the circuit court opinions that she wrongfully exercised jurisdiction. 28 U.S. Code § 455 - Disqualification of justice, judge, or magistrate judge. Any justice, judge, or magistrate judge of the United States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned.
My experience is that the 11th Circuit is hell on wheels on judicial disqualification.
Mission: get the photo to Jack Smith's office. WAIT - I have messaged the photographer, who does not in the caption identify Aileen Cannon by name. Unless he provides a name, I have no evidence.
Aw c'mon Martha. Let's be nice and give Trump a Florentine vacation at that nice, lovely federal resort in Florence, Colorado where He can enjoy an unobstructed, panoramic view of the opposite wall of his cell. [sarcasm ends]. Seriously, I wouldn't mind if the Bureau of Prisons repaired and refurbished Alcatraz just for him.
I am still under the impression that reason is punishable by hanging from the end of her rope. I can’t think of too many people that deserve it more than the old trumpet
Martha ; There is the question of his lifetime secret service detail. Would he still have this? If so, how would that work? Where would they stay that would allow tfg to be guarded?
This coffee klatch was obviously recorded before the Trump indictment was unsealed and made public. It is stunning in the damage that may have been caused to our country by Trump's recklessness. Our intelligence community may never know whether foreign agents gained access to top secret documents stored randomly around Mar-a-Lago. Trump should go to prison. He is a danger to society.
My litote (thanks for the new vocabulary word): Trump is not the most honest person in the world.
Jun 10, 2023Liked by Robert Reich, Heather Lofthouse
Thank you; Robert and Heather, for another fabulous coffee klatch! It was so much more than 'not bad'! And I would not make "light of tea", Even though the coffee drinkers around me say My decaf might as well be tea! They have not mastered Litotes!
Trump is a stain on our nation's soul and his negativity will be with this country long after he has left us. His only redeeming quality, he won't be back.
This indictment and the following show trials will legally reveal publicly, for the first time, a decades long transnational crime syndicate made up of rogue state agents and international mafia working in the highest echelons of many Western postwar democratic governments.
Any political outcome of this challenging clean up operation can not be predicted. Wishing Jack Smith, his team and all their law abiding supporters an enduring victory over all depraved treacherous profiteers worldwide who debase and destroy our societies from within.
It is impossible to predict the outcome of Trumps indictments. So much depends upon the speed and visibility with which all is handled. If it is left to conclude until after the election then all justice could be lost. The safeguards of democracy and justice are at loose ends. Half of our government has gone completely rouge. We have a politicized and bought Supreme Court. A media that owned by a few right wing oligarchs who care only about their profits while too many Democrats are more concerned about decorum than engaging in the inconvenient battles for truth and justice. It is quite the mess. Our democracy is up for grabs but may all of us who support truth and justice win the day.
Heather’s “Hell yes!” response was my reaction also to the federal indictment. I am anticipating that happy response to indictments in Georgia and for seditious conspiracy, hopefully in the near future.
Unfortunately, I had the same response to the Mueller report and to both impeachment charges. And we saw that Trump somehow got out of consequences in those situations.
Hopefully justice will prevail this time, with true consequences and accountability.
Favorite example of litotes: In the movie “Julie and Julia,” when Meryl Streep and Jane Lynch (who play Julia Child and her sister) get all dressed up and look at themselves together in the mirror, and one of them says “not bad!” And the other one says, “not good, but not bad!”
After the former president has been convicted and found guilty of these heinous crimes against the United States of America, for the good of this country, and as a bold warning for future elected officials and political parties to abstain from antidemocracy objectives, it is essential that Donald Trump and anyone else involved serve the maximum time in time in prison for their crimes.
As Norman Griffin says, Trump needs to receive the maximum sentence. Before that, we may have some serious problems with Aileen Cannon, which are best resolved now, before she gets control of the trial portion of this case. I'm afraid she'll run out the clock. MAYBE she'll have a change of heart after the 11th circuit's humiliating rebukes of her in the last go 'round, but the PEOPLE need a fair trial. They don't need to be beaten up again by this sleaze. That said, that he was so spectacularly indicted -- 37 counts!! -- and the truth laid out so clearly in a 37-count indictment is a profound blessing. Immense gratitude to Smith and the grand jury. Well done!
Judge Cannon should be removed from the bench on the basis of incompetence or perhaps bias.
Can she count to 37?
Unfortunately life tenure makes that effectively impossible. The Federal bench has some of the finest examples of ethical and principled public servants. What I learned as a Federal law clerk, however, was that not all judges are the highest caliber. Some are petty, petulant, and pompous political hacks. Their political leanings do not always predict performance.
The credibility of the Federal bench is on the line now as never before. Let’s hope that the Judiciary in SD Fla. rises the the occasion.
Yes, Cannon is the very scary part for the reaon/s you point out. We can only hope that the meticulous handling and planning of this case by Jack Smith included the possibility of her assignment, along with a gameplan for dealing with it. He seems to have left no stone unturned. EXTREMELY impressive. Should give us hope for a change.
We cannot rely on hope.
I believe his case and evidence is tight. I’m glad it’s this judge and this location. Fewer delays and fewer conspiracy theories, hopefully. I wonder if there’s a lawyer to take on this client—loudmouth, lying, grifting, scumbag.
Why are you glad for this judge?
It weakens trump’s argument that it’s an unfair trial. Also the man charged with him. Brilliant strokes in support of a fair trial for actual Federal crimes.
Trump’s crimes prove that he’s never served in the military. What was it bunions? I can’t remember.
also this....https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/11/opinion/donald-trump-and-reality-winner-espionage-act.html
Here's the thing. I've already heard some of ol' Tweety's apologists whining about "equal justice under the law," then regurgitating their standard "whatabout" tropes concerning Clinton & Biden. That's a complete evasion of the question regarding equal treatment under the law.
I'll express that essence with the simple rhetorical question: what would have happened to >any< of us here had we been caught pulling the same $#!7 ol' Tweety pulled, that's already public knowledge, and that ol' Tweety's publicly bragged about? Make sure ol' Tweety gets what any of us would've gotten - months & months ago!
That's the true meaning of equal treatment under the law, in a land that rejects kings and the legal privileges of royalty, >as well as< regardless of race, creed, national origin, family ties, wealth, rank, public office, or - dare I mention - political perspective.
I ask again, what would have happened to any of us here had we been caught involved with any of this? :
https://youtu.be/QMcmDc2PYrs
It's just come to my attention that ol' Tweety's apologists are now brandishing a document, the FD-1023, in their latest round of whataboutism:
- WHAT THE FD-1023 SHOWS:
https://youtu.be/-Jw0TxLHS0A
Let me express my own "whataboutistic" take: What about what happened to the Rosenbergs ‽
FD-1023 is a form used to report information from an informant that HAS NOT been verified. The Republicans are all a twittering about an FD-1023 that contains dirt on the Bidens. Again, by definition, this is UNVERIFIED information.
And on Twitter the more things change the more they stay the same.
And just yesterday I found out some folks in Nevada claim they had aliens invade their backyard! :
https://youtu.be/ROLYGcj5bNM
Heard about it on the local, broadcast news this morning, as well! I'll just bet the report found its way onto an FD-1023, too! LOL ];-)>
I wish there were a Ha-ha emoji on these posts, too. Some of this stuff is mind boggling.
Oy, vey iz mir. Thanks for that.
I think …
We here at my house are wondering, too, why the press is not covering the overt efforts on the Right to foment actual armed revolution they call Boogaloo … I know we keep talking about armament and militiias and the dangers they present, and we discuss individuals creating havoc with the idea of revolution in their hearts.
But we rarely hear about Boogaloo, or about Steve Bannon stating categorically that he wants to “blow it all up,” when discussing our democracy …
Where is the focused and detailed reporting on that?
OK, this might be off topic — sorry.
It is not off topic! It is exactly the TOPIC every honest and educated person should demand to hear over and over and over and over until these dangerous snipers are rounded up and given time alone! ( in a cell)!
Discussions can be like that. It's worth keeping in mind, though.
What about Martha Stewart's jail time? Quite a contrast to the lifetime career of Orange Maralardo's lying, crime-dodging, jail-free sprees.
You realize don't you, that the Rosenbergs, DC socialites who were only - but provably - socially involved with Russian agents, got fried in the electric chair? The claim was that they passed nuclear secrets. It's unclear whether they were >ever< actually in possession of said secrets to pass in the first place. Ol' Tweety, on the other hand . . .
"Orange Maralardo"..... hadn't heard that one; it goes to the top of the list!
A little helping of fremdschämen for you all: https://youtu.be/_veU-fN2X9U
Actually, ashamed >for< others - like seeing someone embarrassing themselves. Sometimes called "cringe worthy."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fremdsch%C3%A4men
I agree Norman,
Nothing else fixes this. We either mean “we live by the law” or we do not.
So far we have seen that many do not ( including trained lawyers). In fact the corruption of so much by so many over the last 50 years has made us a simple “ banana republic”.
I am a person who does not judge another by anything except by their commitment to truth and to empathy.
It is time America rewards her citizens who have steadfastly supported her best qualities. Truth, Law, equality and a “give back spirit” for all that our country has the power to deliver.
,
Change anyone else to everyone else.
Totally agree, Norman Griffin! As Malcolm Nance eloquently wrote today on SPECIAL INTELLIGENCE, " if we are a nation of laws and the former president committed these crimes, then prison is not just an option. It is the only form of justice that will renew our faith and bring us back towards the arc of a more perfect union."
makes one wonder how Secret Service fits into that picture... Wonder if he'd simply be restrained to mar a lago or similar; hard core house arrest. I would LOVE for him to be in real prison (not 'country club' prison) and WITHOUT Secret Service. That's where the rest of us would go if we committed the same crimes. He's put the entire country at risk, and other countries the same. I'm beyond disgusted. At the very least, we need to change the requirements for candidates running for the presidency (and OTHER offices) so that anyone convicted of a felony is unable to run... whether the perp is appealing or not, because it's pretty clear that con men like tfg cannot be shamed into dropping out.
so if a Republican is elected President in 2024 they could pardon Trump. Could happen. Not sure about the likely timing here. If Trump were elected Prez he could pardon himself ?
Good question, a bridge yet to cross and a country unprepared to tackle... It is my hpe the American people do not allow this to happen.
100%
In my view, the deep and pervasive corruption that has been building for decades and that has settled upon the republic has reached an inflection point. I believe the outcome of this latest indictment will greatly effect whether we are a country governed by the rule of law or whether the rule of law is deemed subjugated to an individual.
I hope so Barbara. But I have another narrative in my head that says though Trump may get justice, that deep and pervasive corruption, (and public disengagement),that's been building for decades that you mentioned doesn't just go away with a conviction, even of a former President. We have huge problems. I think we have been taking 2 steps backward and 1 step forward for a very long time. So is this an inflection point, or a blip in a longer term trend ?
I agree that a lot more is going to be needed, but Trumph’s conviction would be something solid we could build on … I hope.
The real point for justice might be made if DOJ also follows through w/ investigating and indicting enablers like meadows, bannon, iuliani, etc etc right on down to people now serving in the US House and Senate and even key positions in state governments ... AND non-government people who enabled, at least through financing..
and THEN we need to work on getting big $$$ out of elections, beginning with eliminating "citizens united" (GEEZ I hate that name).
PLUS -- there's the corruption going on in scotus... THAT has GOT to be addressed and possibly some people impeached.
Apparently they are looking at Meadows. Giuliani has had his law license suspended {I think it still is}, and Bannon was tried and convicted for some of his financial criminality, for which he was pardoned by Trumph. I don’t know if he can be tried for fomenting civil war — maybe he’s too careful of his rhetoric for that, unlike a lot of the others …
But, I would be cautious of instituting a purge — and yet, not let something like “optics” prevent doing what’s the right thing to do.
This is the line our DOJ and others in the legal sphere must walk daily, and wrestle with how to keep {and fix?} the democracy and republic we value so much.
At least, most of us value it.
ms krieger is point ON !
The federal indictment of Trump is no small matter.
Hopefully, this and other ongoing investigations will raze Trump, Inc. to the ground.
Nice job of using a litotes!
Thanks! I was trying to figure out how to spell it so I could look it up. And thanks Heather for our word of the week! 😎
Not sure where to post my favorite litote but mine is appropriate for when I feel I do not want to become cynical or give up on the Democratic party. It is from a scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "I'm not dead."
Historically speaking Donald Trump will become the bottom of the barrel that buffoons of the future will be compared to. I seriously doubt there will ever be anyone worse that will have the effects this man has had on our country. Trump is aboard the flag ship of egocentric narcissists sailing toward the edge of a flat universe. It won't take 80 days to see the results of this voyage. McCarthy is saying the investigation into Trumps activities is a sham, one that is poorly orchestrated. Who cares what it takes to catch a thief. Grant and Kelly seemed to enjoy themselves. In the old days they used to chop off your hand for the crime. If that penalty still existed Trump would look like Venus de Milo's brother.
Donald, I have a mental picture of djt as Venus de Milo's brother... and it ain't pretty!
While I really like the Louvre statue... every time I think of djt sans culotte, I recall Stormy Daniels's description of his, ahem, male member.
Pamela--That's one image I hope my meager mind will never envision.
Robert--Wouldn't that make the outcome of elections meaningless.
Quite eloquent …
Pat--sadly so.
This indictment most certainly SHOULD spell the beginning of the end of Trump's political career. It SHOULD spell the beginning of the end of his freedom. It SHOULD spell the beginning of the end of his ability to divide and confuse and mislead people.
Unfortunately, our justice system is less than perfect in effecting the high ideals of justice. Through some error on the part of the DOJ or some tiny technicality or whatever might happen, it's possible that he could get off completely. He could even again become president, which would be a complete travesty. There is absolutely no way to predict or know what the result will be. We can only hope for the best.
We the People can only hope for the system to work well and to lead to a conviction on all counts against him. And hopefully it will not be a long, dragged out, painful process for us all to endure. Furthermore, we need for everyone to accept whatever the result of the process might be. If he is let off the hook, we will need to accept that and deal with the consequences. If he is convicted, his die-hard supporters will need to accept that and deal with the consequences.
Either way, there will undoubtedly be trouble, possibly including violence, and we will all have to deal with whatever happens. Hopefully, our country, our government, our citizens will all be strong enough and stable enough to withstand all that is yet to come of this.
IE: WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS!! THE PRESIDENTS, WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS, ARE MERE PUPPETS OF OUR RULING CLASS OLIGARCHS AND THEIR RELENTLESS THIRST FOR PROFITS FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR VICIOUS, VENAL BLOOD LUSTS!
I think its time to calm down and see our world clearly and make rational plans to deal with the realities that make us want to yell and holler.
Angry against angry is just going to make everything worse. Determined and savvy and strategic is what we need. That means learning and talking to each other …
Yes!
Perhaps the end of Tr*mp, but there remains his legacy: Tr*mpism - the anti-democracy party of willful ignorance, wanton violence, and white grievance.
I do not believe in Trumpism without Trump. What we have witnessed is, IMO, a cult of personality. Getting mentally unbalanced people to do strange things -- like Marsh Applewhite or Jim Jones, only on a mass scale. For sure, someone with fascist, authoritarian principles will arise -- but it won't be trumpism. Yeah, Trump held up a bible and all that -- but this future person will be much more overtly religious.
Thomas; didn't he hold the Bible upside down once?
Hi Laurie. When he used some type of tear gas to clear out peaceful protesters from Lafayette Square on June 1, 2020 -- all for a photo op holding a bible in front of St. John's Episcopal Church -- the reports went out the bible was upside-down. That part of the story was not true.
This was after he made a call to mayors and public officials to "get tough" with the people protesting the killing of George Floyd.
A conviction will, as I said above, be something we need, and something to work with — because, as you are ALL saying, there will still be a lot of work to do. Nobody should oughta relax, persons!!
Those who follow history know that the R’s have been orchestrating this power take-over from the grass-roots up for decades — at least since Reagan, doing it in the open. McConnell gave them an ENORMOUS push by being willing to subvert the nominating process for the Supreme Court and pack that very court. Amazing but not surprising that he had the nerve to do that for not only one, but for two justices — Kavanaugh and Coney Barrett!!
So, yeah, I hope to hell the country gets the conviction it deserves, vis a vis Mr. Trumph. And I hope we have a plan for how to continue afterward — to proceed with solidifying our democracy against these autocrats.
{I do see ONE oddly reassuring bit of reality in all this — when the worst [or among the worst] shenanigans in the White House came down the pike, namely the attempt to subvert our last presidential election, it was Trump’s own people and Republicans in office—both elected and career—who held the line and subverted the jerk. And they are numerous in the ranks of people who have testified to Congress and these DOJ guys about what the Autocrats tried to do.
I think “the Deep State” means careerr people who keep the machine running right. I know it’s supposed to be pejorative, but maybe it means the working parts we actually depend on …
Yes, Thomas, there's a cult of personality. However, ignorance stemming from poor education is what leads people to join cults. Sadly... it happens all too often.
I still think he'll skip.
Material man. In terms of transactional analysis, his WATNA is jail and bankruptcy. His BATNA is the three R's that I learned from trial practice: retribution, retaliation and remuneration.
In October he has a trial date in the NY state case that could render a judgment of a $billion. He has to have contingent liabilities for a lot more than that.
Even if he gets retribution, becomes president, even if he puts guys like me in jail, bankruptcy protection is not available for fraud.
Next year in Abu Dhabi.
Oh, man, I’ve thought that, too, but wondered … !!! Whether he’d leave the country for a non-extradition spot. He actually has far less REAL money than he projects. A lot of what he has is claim to real estate and a cash flow that I suspect is a little iffy now and then.
Maybe he could run off to a part of the world where the living is cheap, and he’d just have to sell one of his gold toilets or something, to get a stash of getaway cash.
I wonder if foreign actors would put him up on their estates?
For sure, Putin would pay him for info on the US …
In re this federal indictment, $50 to a mutually agreed upon charity says he won't skip, he will be convicted, he will be declared ineligible to run for office. End of wager. Speculation:
His sentence might include time in the same cushy prison that his ex-attorney Michael Cohen occupied - FCI Otisville. Of course, the location where a convicted felon does time is up to the Bureau of Prisons.
You're on. How about the SSA trust funds?
But consider the judge. Although Miami is a "rocket docket" jurisdiction and a trial could be over by October under the speedy trial rule which requires a trial 70 days from indictment, the odds are just as likely that Judge Cannon will try to consolidate all Trump's cases, state and federal to her court and perform a pretrial intervention, withholding all potential criminal liability because he is arguably still president. Withhold adjudication until after the election..
DOJ can appeal, but this is Florida. Our governor has his own police force. Has his own foreign policy. Observes his own form of due process.
I used to live two blocks from municipios en exilio, local governments in exile, all part of the Cuban government in exile. Huber Matos was treated locally as if he, not Fidel Castro, was president of Cuba. US officials like George Herbert Walker Bush, publicly treated him as if he had diplomatic relations and was the true Cuban leader.
Apparently Judge Cannon was born and raised in that milieu.
SSA trust funds is fine.
In re Judge Cannon here is what I found: https://www.axios.com/2023/06/09/trump-indictment-aileen-cannon-us-district-judge
When she was named an AUSA she had to have been hired by Democrat Wilfredo Ferrer ( aka Comandante Willie) who had been in DOJ in DC when Janet Reno was the AG.
I can send you a picture of her when as an AUSA, she was in Trump regalia. That has to be a Hatch Act violation. It's on my Facebook page.
She attended prep school across the street where I used to live. Odds are she got affirmative action to go to school.
Everyone says she was in appeals because she was not trusted to handle trials.
IMHO she should have been referred to the Judicial Conference because she wrongfully accepted jurisdiction and venue in the civil case. She was reamed twice by a conservative 11th Circuit Court.
Jack Smith can file a motion to ask her to recuse. Attach a copy of that picture. Cite to the circuit court opinions that she wrongfully exercised jurisdiction. 28 U.S. Code § 455 - Disqualification of justice, judge, or magistrate judge. Any justice, judge, or magistrate judge of the United States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned.
My experience is that the 11th Circuit is hell on wheels on judicial disqualification.
Mission: get the photo to Jack Smith's office. WAIT - I have messaged the photographer, who does not in the caption identify Aileen Cannon by name. Unless he provides a name, I have no evidence.
DOJ will ask someone to identify her. The rule on admissibility of a photograph is whether it accurately depicts something relevant.
Thank you, Daniel. I thought there must be some way of keeping her out as the trial judge.
Aw c'mon Martha. Let's be nice and give Trump a Florentine vacation at that nice, lovely federal resort in Florence, Colorado where He can enjoy an unobstructed, panoramic view of the opposite wall of his cell. [sarcasm ends]. Seriously, I wouldn't mind if the Bureau of Prisons repaired and refurbished Alcatraz just for him.
I am still under the impression that reason is punishable by hanging from the end of her rope. I can’t think of too many people that deserve it more than the old trumpet
Or, Yuma prison could be re-opened. It was so bad that for years there were rumors that people avoided committing crimes in that district!
djt is not martha stuart
HARD TIME X 50
He's not a woman so any imprisonment has to be less severe than Martha's.
Martha ; There is the question of his lifetime secret service detail. Would he still have this? If so, how would that work? Where would they stay that would allow tfg to be guarded?
Now there's a dilemma.
My answer is that's not my department.
Daniel, I’m sure he’d love to live by Muslim standards. 😄 He’s done such a great job with the Christian one…2 Corinthians & all!
US has too much leverage over UAE. Hah. But he might skip.
You’ve been right before.
This coffee klatch was obviously recorded before the Trump indictment was unsealed and made public. It is stunning in the damage that may have been caused to our country by Trump's recklessness. Our intelligence community may never know whether foreign agents gained access to top secret documents stored randomly around Mar-a-Lago. Trump should go to prison. He is a danger to society.
My litote (thanks for the new vocabulary word): Trump is not the most honest person in the world.
Thank you; Robert and Heather, for another fabulous coffee klatch! It was so much more than 'not bad'! And I would not make "light of tea", Even though the coffee drinkers around me say My decaf might as well be tea! They have not mastered Litotes!
Trump is a stain on our nation's soul and his negativity will be with this country long after he has left us. His only redeeming quality, he won't be back.
This indictment and the following show trials will legally reveal publicly, for the first time, a decades long transnational crime syndicate made up of rogue state agents and international mafia working in the highest echelons of many Western postwar democratic governments.
Any political outcome of this challenging clean up operation can not be predicted. Wishing Jack Smith, his team and all their law abiding supporters an enduring victory over all depraved treacherous profiteers worldwide who debase and destroy our societies from within.
Listening to Robert Reich and Heather Lofthouse this morning was not a waste of time.
It is impossible to predict the outcome of Trumps indictments. So much depends upon the speed and visibility with which all is handled. If it is left to conclude until after the election then all justice could be lost. The safeguards of democracy and justice are at loose ends. Half of our government has gone completely rouge. We have a politicized and bought Supreme Court. A media that owned by a few right wing oligarchs who care only about their profits while too many Democrats are more concerned about decorum than engaging in the inconvenient battles for truth and justice. It is quite the mess. Our democracy is up for grabs but may all of us who support truth and justice win the day.
And the climate too, up for grabs.
So much to do … no time to rest …
Success NEEDS accurate information to be disseminated.
How to do it!!? How to reach people in their silos? Those are the questions that keep me up at night.
How does the Hoover Institute do it. Disseminate their propaganda to journalists and others who publish to the public .
Heather’s “Hell yes!” response was my reaction also to the federal indictment. I am anticipating that happy response to indictments in Georgia and for seditious conspiracy, hopefully in the near future.
Unfortunately, I had the same response to the Mueller report and to both impeachment charges. And we saw that Trump somehow got out of consequences in those situations.
Hopefully justice will prevail this time, with true consequences and accountability.
Litotes: Trump pleads Not That Innocent.
Favorite example of litotes: In the movie “Julie and Julia,” when Meryl Streep and Jane Lynch (who play Julia Child and her sister) get all dressed up and look at themselves together in the mirror, and one of them says “not bad!” And the other one says, “not good, but not bad!”
I see this Indictment of A Former President as an example of how our a Constitution is supposed to work