Why aren’t we talking about the biggest issue: fact checking. Moderators cannot allow Trump to spew completely made up bullsh*t or just refuse to answer a question and then say “we have to move on”. Moderators can't be blindly tied to “equal treatment” when we are clearly seeing unequal content. If he comes out with flat out lies, either the moderator must fact check or Harris must be given a final word to do so before moving on. Any debate that allows a segment to end on unaddressed clear fabrications makes a debate futile.
Can't wait to celebrate Kamala landslide victory wearing this funny tee on November 5 👇 🤣
Harris cannot respond to every lie. Otherwise, Trump will dominate the debate. I suggest she identify the biggest lie in that particular string, refute it, and go on to discuss the policy issue or the question asked by the moderators. She won't have worry. The rest the lies will be back again.
I think all Kamala needs to do is say something like, "I counted at least __ lies in my opponents last response to your questions. Our fact checkers will describe each one after this debate. Go to '___' for the details." Another thing she could say is something like, "My opponent never (truthfully) answered your questions. My answer to your questions is ...."
No. After the debate is too late. There needs to be a team or panel that checks during real time. Then the debate stops to focus on it. No going on to the next. This is NOT about let Trump gish gallop away like he did last time.
A best-practices communications principle is not to respond point-by-point to your opponent. Rather, you take the subject of the opponent's point, or the tone of their response, and you craft a "response" that pushes forward your own position on that topic. If possible, at the end, you gently hold up for ridicule some position your opponent has that makes your own position, which you've just stated, look even more appealing. Certainly you would not ever want Harris to respond point by point to anything Trump says in a futile belief that facts have anything to do with what's going on.
Pete Buttigieg is good, as you say, Take the tone and wrap it up, as supporting your own assertions. I only learned about the galloping strategy of a negative side, where an affirmative can’t Whack-a-Mole, counter, rebut, all the scattershot assertions, true or not, thrown out—so their position might come across as weak.
But so, your strategy sounds good—ignore the litter and characterize the entire rant, then bend it to reveal it “for what it is,”supportive of YOUR assertions after all. There’s a lot to learn and admire. Thanks, you know debating.
As a litigator, she knows how to use body position and body language to convey this message. Skilled litigators often have acting lessons to learn these things. It's probably in her past training somewhere.
Trump is going to Gish Gallop. How does Kamala Harris and the debate moderators deal with that effectively to cut it off. He should get cut off somehow as soon as he goes off.
Harris was the Attorney General for the State of California. I'm sure she's seen all kinds of "debate" techniques. I'm also sure she has seen some Trump has never tried. I'm sure she knows how to shut him up (with authority).
Peggy, one thing Trump is good at is the "Gish Gallop," when the speaker speaks really fast, tosses in a whole lot of things, some possibly true, but mostly false and keeps going through his entire time and can't be stopped. When it is the other person's turn, there is no possible way to address those issues because there were so many, so disjointed, and there is no ability to fact check everything. One response I have seen is to give a deep sigh, and say something like "wow, that was quite a rush through the issue; I suspect you could not pull out an answer from that gallop. What I got from it is that you want to ____ which is of course ridiculous (or impossible, or not worth the effort, or some equivalent line without insulting him). A workable approach to that would be ___." I know Kamala Harris has worked with a lot of defense lawyers who try that Gish Galloping, so I bet she can handle it, particularly if she practices it a bit before the actual debate. I heard a Republican "climate activist" (I know, it seems an oxymoron, but that is what she claimed to be). This was on an NPR program called "Climate One." I honestly forgot her name immediately, but she did a 5-minute or longer Gish Gallop at least twice through her reasons Republican young people are paying attention to the climate. I am not sure if anything she said was true, but she galloped right through a whole lot of things and the show's host could not get in a word edgewise. I am sure that was the point, no questions that she would actually have to consider answering and no real information or sense that she actually has a command of the subject. She did this several times during the program and that last time, by the end of the 5th minute, I couldn't take it anymore and turned it off. That is a show I like, but a whole episode where I learned nothing about Republicans and climate. That was remarkable if it were anyone but Republicans. I am sure they are trained in the technique. Dems need to cut the Gallop off at the pass when it starts. I expect Harris to do that.
I hope Harris is practicing with a skillful Trump impersonator, simply to reduce the shock of being rip-tided by a gish gallop, either during Trump's on-mike rants or roaring away in the background while he's off-mike.
Cyrano, I hope Harris has a good Trump-like practice opponent because Trump has had decades of practice twisting words, arguments, saying nothing but pretending it is a huge deal, lying really fast, then more lies on top. His Gish Galloping is well-trained, but his dementia gets in the way now, so it is really off-kilter and could confuse an intelligent person trying to follow an argument as a prosecutor does.
This shows the problem Ruth in your own response, if I may say so. Take your first sentence here and your last. That is all that is needed.
A simple slow answer to one issue, to the question. Trump tries to confuse, when he is also confused.
Bring it back to making sense and answer the question SIMPLY. He does not answer the question. When he does that. He must be stopped with a big buzzer!
I don't think facts will work, Peggy. I think Harris needs to articulate her own position any time Donald brings something up. She should virtually ignore him, and certainly not engage with whether he uses facts or not. Voters, much to our collective dismay, don't care about facts. They care about what they feel, how what Harris says is somehow appealing to them, and maybe what dress designer her stepdaughter patronizes. They don't care about facts.
The Trump gambit that infuriated me the most during his "debate" with Biden was ignoring the moderator's questions about climate change and family benefits, instead blasting into an hysteric rant about the '"border," which he had ordered the House GOP to leave as is for just this occasion. Even though his mike was muted, Trump could be heard roaring off-camera when Biden spoke -- and everyone shifted their attention to what the offstage monster was up to. You know, like when drunken old Uncle John roars his grievances at the dinner table, ruining the hours/days of hard work the womenfolk put into creating a nice Thanksgiving Day feast. It's a cherished American tradition, like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown. I'm eager to see how the other side will deal with it.
There is a term for guys like Trump: Dry Drunks. They act like out of control alcoholics, without the substance in their system. Often they grew up in a family where the chaos of alcoholism, or other addictions lead to unhealthy family habits & behaviors. Even those not using the substances were acting out as much as the addict. Trump is an excellent example of one. Unless they get help from Therapists and/or & by participation in Self-help groups such as Al-Anon a 12 Step Group, for Self-Awareness + Healing, to Deal more Affectively to Alter the Destructive Cycle, it Continues. Even if no substances are used.
Yes, dry drunk is a good term: there are lots of dry drunks out there who listen to Trump rant and say: "Hey, this guy is GOOD!" He's on their wave length.
I'll be happy when we can all be like GROWNUPS, which you cannot be where MAGAts & DJT are. Put this sad, sordid chain of events over to history, although we NEED to remember.
I'd love to see that too, but it'll never happen. The aging, idiotic and cowardly Don will beg off all debates as if his political life depended on it - because it does.
He'd lose 15 points after any actual debate with Harris and he knows it. Let's make sure to call him out for the freakin' coward that he is.
People in chicken suits need to follow him around at rallies and bok-bok-abok-bok-bok-bok at him. Of course, they could be taking their lives in their hands what with ignorant, gun-toting MAGATs pecking around the yard.
If DJT weasles out, Vice President Harris vowed she would still be there to call his bluff. I hope she stays her course, showing the entire world what a wanker DJT truly is. As I have amintained for decades, when his lips are moving, he is lying, and he is a thoroughly reprehensible and cowardly person. I think VP Harris can handle any nonsense and BS he dishes out,and I could not care less if he chickens out. That would only emphasize his cowardice. I am SO TIRED of having to spend ear, eye and brain time on that miserable excuse of a person.
I feel the same way. After the second admonition, Trump will probably explode. After all, his self control is a lie, like almost everything else about the man
Donald trump is going to extinguish all tribes along with giving the casinos to Bali. I know Robert has not talked about this secret but it is true! Asheville North Carolina is the home of the Lumbe tribe and first.green.com making remote control skid loader. Pryor Oklahoma is the factory owned by the Cherokee and Pawne nations.
Asheville homie here. The mountains of western North Carolina is the land of the Cherokee Nation. Pembroke County down east is the home of the Lumbee tribe, a state-recognized only tribe(www.lumbeetribe.com)of about 55,000 members.
I live in Arizona, home of many native nations. We have four or five of the most extreme MAGA congressional representatives. (And by the way, no one is talking about these races.) I am ashamed to say that a truly egregious politician, Eli Crane, is my congressional representative (his newsletter to constituents is called "One in the Chamber" and the graphic is an AK-47 assault rifle). A former president of the Navajo Nation, Democrat Jonathan Nez, is running against the multi-millionaire Crane. I fear very much that Nez will lose. I don't think he has any money, or much political savvy. What is the tribal nations' position on Harris vs Trump? Are the tribes going to mobilize?
Case in point: trying to get a site on the UNUSED parking lot at the old Casino for a MYEVA>ORG electric vehicle show was blocked by Tribal Member Ernie Salgado. In that action the Tribal Chairman said there would never be any STEAM grants for the 1500 young Native Americans who attend Noli High School. Even to the point of disenroll tribal membership. The show was held at Mount San Jacinto College last Saturday and the fifteen students from Cabrillo High School brought the electric Car they built. This is only an eighty million dollar educational grant. This is what MAGA dose. No wonder Putin likes MAGA.
They should just as successful as the parents of the screaming kid in a restaurant. Most of the Republican party is frozen in place because of trumpets 🎺 chokehold on their Treasury.. If he loses control of the money and the media BS attacks and take away his money then Trumpets 🎺 is Nobody, less than nobody…
Trump would never bail. He loves the attention, and the debate, doesn't matter about content--is, to him, the event is strictly about personal attention. "Did you see our numbers? Did you see," by all measurements how much attention it commanded? Trump is not one to concern himself with substance. It's fun to be the focus of attention. He doesn't know policy or history, economics, law, political geography, science, anything about medicine, leadership, or the Bible. Just an order of attention please, straight-up.
His only tactic is (and has been) to attempt to overwhelm anyone he's talking to with an overload of BS containing so many lies, insults and misrepresentations per minute that for many people it becomes impossible to respond to. The thing is, that only works for folks who don't know it's coming or just have a hard time talking (like Biden did).
There is a way to beat that; almost like a rhetorical martial arts move. You don't match him shout to shout, you don't try to fact check him; instead you let him walk into several well laid traps - and then spring them in succession. Each time the trap closes, it will get worse for Trump, making him look foolish, out of touch, old and let's face it - crazy.
Trump knows what will happen to him - likely even in a debate hosted by Fox. He'll bail and if he doesn't - he'll lose the election right there and then. So, fingers crossed - he has made some pretty stupid decisions before - just look at JD. And of course on the flip Biden, made a similar bad call and look what happened to him.
I hope he does debate, I just don't think he will.
1) Take him into familiar territory that gets him to repeat some of the more nonsensical things he tends to deliver in his rally standup routines... and then smile more as he sticks his foot deeper in (building it).
2) - Let him get worked up and rude (whatever the topic) - and then tell him, 'you're not going to bully me,' or some variation of that as a slap down. The prosecutor kicks ass moment...
3) Set him up for one liners (lots of possibilities - and this would likely combine the first two).
4) Repetition - seems like a good time to bring back Reagan's 'there he goes again' - while either candidate might say that - it come off more genuine as a reaction to Trump's antics. And the line could be updated of course. Actually, lot's of options here.
Bottom line - what makes this all possible for Harris (and problematic) for Trump is that he has so many potential weaknesses to exploit. He will get himself into trouble time and again because he has no finesse, can't really think on his feet and his 'schtick' is about 100 years old. He's a one trick pony and the 1 trick (e.g. the lying bully gone wild) is old, boring and gross.
If he enters that stage, he'll leave a foot shorter and 10 points lower in the polls.
Trump’s ace-in-the-hole is, he doesn’t care about anything. Always relaxed because he doesn’t care, and this is what people expect of him. Stupid stuff, “Now argue with THAT!”
I figure Harris will have learned, Don’t address him or his assertions. Answer the moderator’s’ questions. Crazy makes a person crazy—don’t engage. She’s in a position to know: how to face him, how to enrage him, how to make a fool of him, though he will be confident throughout and after.
Trump will call it, A stolen debate, and disrespect viewers who rate his performance badly, 😆. Trump’s an expert debater; ask him, he’ll tell you.
I doubt that he's going to be relaxed (if he does step into the ring), but agree with you on the rest. All bullies are at their core - very - insecure people. What's happening to him now is his worst case scenario.
I hope we get the chance to show him really melting down under pressure, because he will.
Whether the mic's are muted or unmuted, Trump will make every effort to speak non-stop whether it's his turn or not. Republicans must attend special training sessons to learn how to interrupt, over-talk, and never answer the question asked, but launch into one of their well-worn lies and/or talking-point rambles. I would not debate Trump or any of his henchmen (or women) -- ever!
I watch Bill Maher and he always has a conservative opposed to either a liberal or a libertarian.
And it does not fail, Conservative filibuster and overtallk, When Rachel Maddow was on Stephen Moore would not shut up as usual, and she had to stand up to get in a word. recently it was Kellyanne Conway and last Friday it was Dan one eyed Crenshow and James Carville sat quietly letting him overtalk, butt in and dominate the conversation.
There is method to the madness, So long as they can dominate the conversation, no body else can object, and they string together, false fact and statistics intermixed with real or misrepresented facts, and to counter them you would have to go into a 5 minute explanation, which would then be interrupted.
It is a tactic of the right, I expect it, what really bothers me is that the host, the moderator allows it, and they always do.
I don't either Kim, It can only hurt her. The media has normalized Trump and he can get away with murder (literally now).
It is the same with a sit down Interview, the media and i's whore hounds, are trying to force her into an interview so they can bombard her with gotcha questions, and then tear her apart.
There are to motivations in the media, to sell clicks and links (ads)
But also ideological. The financiers that own the media, believe that Trump is an asset because he will deregulate the economy, turn it into a monopolozing free for all, and reduce their taxes so they can further free load on middle America.
As a result they are hostile to Harris, the heir of Biden and a "liberal" Democrat.
I hope Harris ignores them, because she will be walking into a den of vipers.
I totally agree, but the problem is the media, they have normalized him, even MSNBC.
Do you see any outrage anymore.
Trump knows that banning abortion is a loser, he brags to his base that he is responsible for Dobbs, then the tells the rest of us and the lazy, or corrupt media that if elected he will not sign a national abortion ban. The man is a proven liar and will say anything, but has or will the media call him a liar? No, not in my lifetime.
100% agreement from me. Not only do I think it a waste of Vice President Harris' time, but it gives Trump air time and yeah, she may wipe the floor up with his hair piece or whatever it is on his head...but he still gets exposure. I say: can the debates.
And--btw--would someone please aim a swift, hard kick at Jason Miller's backside. He is one of Trump's more obnoxious mouthpieces and I cannot stand his snarkiness.
They did at the last debate, but it didn't make a difference, Trump was standing close enough to Biden that he could overtalk, dominate the debate, and Biden could hardly think long enough to respond to one lie, before Trump unleashed a staccato of lies.
They need to be in soundproof chambers.
Please tell me you are not a member of Rupert's family.
What they're doing is commonly referred to as the Gish Gallop and needs to be stopped cold, if not by the moderator, then by the person being spoken over. It only works if it's allowed continue. It should be impolitely interrupted after the first debatable or clearly false statement and each such statement thereafter. Strings of lies should never be allowed to be uttered.
There was an article several years ago about some of the many Republican men who quit his team mid-term going on record to say he is literally a moron. His own Republican team members.
He usually resorts to one- or two-word insults, if my memory serves me. Perhaps "failing," "failing badly," or, if he is feeling confident and glib, "dumb as a rock."
So this is what we are still subjected to - petty arguments like we're in a Jr. High election for class president vs GOVERNING. I have to wonder if we'll ever get back to the business of the people. I'm beyond tired of the petty, pointless, personal, pathetic exchanges that may fuel media and its advertisers but do nothing to work for the needs and desires of us poor slobs who put them in office. The media loves this crap, abandoning its critical role in maintaining a democracy in favor of profitable advertisers. Shameful. Disgusting. A true betrayal of our country and citizenry. AGAIN!
Everyone's hand is up to agree with you. I figure points are won if Harris keeps a straight face and delivers her responses in terms as dry and boring as they warrant. Politics is dull work, strategies, policies, creation of legislation that improves things, it's not supposed to be cheap-entertainment. [Trump is an entertainer; he has managed to make politics something it is not, some sort of World Wrestling fight, of interest to the masses, not really those steeped in interest for topics, but those wanting to see a chaotic brawl]. Let them get boring, and watch Trump lose his stuffing, trying to make it as interesting as a cowboy brawl, or that but without getting his hands dirty, it's a white collar brawl--if Trump gets to control the debate model.
Earlier in the campaign season his aversion to *any* debate (i.e. with President Biden) - under any terms - was made clear; the idea that his sentiments would have changed (i.e. logically, predicated on some significant change of calculus e.g. regarding norms) seems a bit of a stretch...
PS: Dare to conjecture that he *never* wanted to & has *zero* excuse (Why should The President have to bother? Didn't he already beat Hillary Clinton, i.e. per the "400 lb. hacker on his bed" comment & so forth?)...
I reckon the Harris campaign does not care one way or the other about muted mikes. They are just making him display fear by threatening a taste of his own medicine
Bob Reich's newsletter today says the Harris campaign WANTS the mics to be un-muted. She WANTS him to interrupt and cuss and insult and lie. She has said more than once, "I'm a prosecutor with lots of experience. I know how to handle rapists, fraudsters, and convicted felons." I really hope I get to see her in action with un-muted mics.
As Garth Brooks sings .."I saw the surprise and the fear in his eyes".....Whether or not they really want it or want it all that badly, saying that they want it threatens him with a taste of what he dishes out and forces him to hem and haw with excuses
Except, Trump is incapable of fear. He can't see one inch in front of him. Consequences of election or debate, instead he gets into the moment and has no vision and no plan. There is probably a psychological term for it, a person who can ONLY live in the present moment, seeing no history nor future.
He’s already complaining! My bet is he’ll refuse to debate because of the rules. He’s an Orange Chicken who’s running against a highly educated woman and he knows he can’t compete.
Judge Merchon should give Donald Trump a one day sentence: make him wear his ankle monitor around his neck on the day of the debate. That's all. Just one day. This eliminates the problem of putting a former President in jail. Cruel and unusual, you say? No more cruel and unusual than putting Paula Jones and Bill Clinton's other sexual encounters in the audience at the debate with Hillary.
And... what's the problem of putting a FORMER president in jail? Millions of folks in this country have spent time in prison for far, far lesser crimes. Martha Stewart comes to mind.
A slap on the wrist or suspended sentence will only continue to prove that the justice system is rigged for the rich. The Wall Street thieves and the Sackler (sp?) drug pushers always get a fine they can afford and no jail time. I hope Judge Merchon breaks the mold here and has T immediately remanded to Riker's Island with no bail. If he has any appeals left he can do it from jail. I'll bet a weeks pay if any of us were found guilty of 34 felony counts on the same day, any judge would have behind us bars before sundown!.
Only, Martha Stewart's insider trading was no "far lesser crime," selling shares to purchasers who had no idea, no legal way to know what she knew, that they were buying high, while she, the seller, knew in advance share prices were going to tank and if only she could unload hers on the innocent unsuspecting. Stewart did some prison time for taking advantage of share markets and that was justice doing its job. Your assertion "millions have spent time in prison for less," true, so end there. An entitle wealthy informed advantage-taker was a ricochet tangent from your important point.
VJ. Thanks for your thoughts. In no way was I defending Martha Stewart and her crimes. She deserved some prison time and did the time. My comment was to point out her number of felonies, 4, compared to DT;s 34. The number of folks she and her partners cheated probably numbered in the hundreds or maybe thousands. We do know that DT's felonies were a direct attack on the law abiding 19 million citizens of New York State and they found him guilty for those. Did his acts cost folks money? I don't know and really don't have time to do all the research to find out. Even if her crimes are considered worse than his, he still should do at least some time. Aways looking forward to your comments.
This discussion is a no-brainer. Knowing Trump’s past behavior, he will chicken out of the debate either by not showing up, canceling at the last minute or become apoplectic on stage when he realized that his mic is on mute. I’d love to see him dragged off the stage ranting and raving as the waiting medics wrestle him into a strait jacket.
Oh Boy, here we go?! My best guess is donOLD will Not Debate, for what ever reason he'll come up with?! But,if he does, It will be Legendary 😂 VP Harris will wipe the floor with him💯💙🇺🇸
Excellent article, Professor Reich. I've been waiting and waiting for Trump's big moment ala the final scene in "A Face in the Crowd" where Lonesome Roads's (Andy Griffith) true self in revealed on live TV before his gushing fans. His professional handlers turn their backs on him and he shrinks and shreaks to the reality that his is a has-been. That day may very well on September 10th.
Go Blue Ohio (it happen on or after September 10th.
I cannot WAIT to see how he reacts when she calmly states: "I am speaking".....:-)
"Donny, I'm speaking now. Wait your turn."
Why aren’t we talking about the biggest issue: fact checking. Moderators cannot allow Trump to spew completely made up bullsh*t or just refuse to answer a question and then say “we have to move on”. Moderators can't be blindly tied to “equal treatment” when we are clearly seeing unequal content. If he comes out with flat out lies, either the moderator must fact check or Harris must be given a final word to do so before moving on. Any debate that allows a segment to end on unaddressed clear fabrications makes a debate futile.
Can't wait to celebrate Kamala landslide victory wearing this funny tee on November 5 👇 🤣
libtees-2.creator-spring.com/listing/votek
Harris cannot respond to every lie. Otherwise, Trump will dominate the debate. I suggest she identify the biggest lie in that particular string, refute it, and go on to discuss the policy issue or the question asked by the moderators. She won't have worry. The rest the lies will be back again.
I think all Kamala needs to do is say something like, "I counted at least __ lies in my opponents last response to your questions. Our fact checkers will describe each one after this debate. Go to '___' for the details." Another thing she could say is something like, "My opponent never (truthfully) answered your questions. My answer to your questions is ...."
No. After the debate is too late. There needs to be a team or panel that checks during real time. Then the debate stops to focus on it. No going on to the next. This is NOT about let Trump gish gallop away like he did last time.
Perfect!
Hannibal Lecter "face garment"
https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/donald-trump-hannibal-lecter-fascination-1236077926/
A best-practices communications principle is not to respond point-by-point to your opponent. Rather, you take the subject of the opponent's point, or the tone of their response, and you craft a "response" that pushes forward your own position on that topic. If possible, at the end, you gently hold up for ridicule some position your opponent has that makes your own position, which you've just stated, look even more appealing. Certainly you would not ever want Harris to respond point by point to anything Trump says in a futile belief that facts have anything to do with what's going on.
Also, the look on Harris's face can be priceless (and moving) while others are talking themselves into a hole.
Pete Buttigieg is good, as you say, Take the tone and wrap it up, as supporting your own assertions. I only learned about the galloping strategy of a negative side, where an affirmative can’t Whack-a-Mole, counter, rebut, all the scattershot assertions, true or not, thrown out—so their position might come across as weak.
But so, your strategy sounds good—ignore the litter and characterize the entire rant, then bend it to reveal it “for what it is,”supportive of YOUR assertions after all. There’s a lot to learn and admire. Thanks, you know debating.
You're clearly very skilled at debating.
TFG unleashes his Torrent O Nonsense.
As a litigator, she knows how to use body position and body language to convey this message. Skilled litigators often have acting lessons to learn these things. It's probably in her past training somewhere.
Thank you. These are very good points.
Trump is going to Gish Gallop. How does Kamala Harris and the debate moderators deal with that effectively to cut it off. He should get cut off somehow as soon as he goes off.
? ? How.
Harris was the Attorney General for the State of California. I'm sure she's seen all kinds of "debate" techniques. I'm also sure she has seen some Trump has never tried. I'm sure she knows how to shut him up (with authority).
I agree, JP. Either the moderators or Kamala needs to state facts when he starts spewing his lies!
Peggy, one thing Trump is good at is the "Gish Gallop," when the speaker speaks really fast, tosses in a whole lot of things, some possibly true, but mostly false and keeps going through his entire time and can't be stopped. When it is the other person's turn, there is no possible way to address those issues because there were so many, so disjointed, and there is no ability to fact check everything. One response I have seen is to give a deep sigh, and say something like "wow, that was quite a rush through the issue; I suspect you could not pull out an answer from that gallop. What I got from it is that you want to ____ which is of course ridiculous (or impossible, or not worth the effort, or some equivalent line without insulting him). A workable approach to that would be ___." I know Kamala Harris has worked with a lot of defense lawyers who try that Gish Galloping, so I bet she can handle it, particularly if she practices it a bit before the actual debate. I heard a Republican "climate activist" (I know, it seems an oxymoron, but that is what she claimed to be). This was on an NPR program called "Climate One." I honestly forgot her name immediately, but she did a 5-minute or longer Gish Gallop at least twice through her reasons Republican young people are paying attention to the climate. I am not sure if anything she said was true, but she galloped right through a whole lot of things and the show's host could not get in a word edgewise. I am sure that was the point, no questions that she would actually have to consider answering and no real information or sense that she actually has a command of the subject. She did this several times during the program and that last time, by the end of the 5th minute, I couldn't take it anymore and turned it off. That is a show I like, but a whole episode where I learned nothing about Republicans and climate. That was remarkable if it were anyone but Republicans. I am sure they are trained in the technique. Dems need to cut the Gallop off at the pass when it starts. I expect Harris to do that.
I hope Harris is practicing with a skillful Trump impersonator, simply to reduce the shock of being rip-tided by a gish gallop, either during Trump's on-mike rants or roaring away in the background while he's off-mike.
Cyrano, I hope Harris has a good Trump-like practice opponent because Trump has had decades of practice twisting words, arguments, saying nothing but pretending it is a huge deal, lying really fast, then more lies on top. His Gish Galloping is well-trained, but his dementia gets in the way now, so it is really off-kilter and could confuse an intelligent person trying to follow an argument as a prosecutor does.
His word salads, I don't know if anyone could reproduce them.
This shows the problem Ruth in your own response, if I may say so. Take your first sentence here and your last. That is all that is needed.
A simple slow answer to one issue, to the question. Trump tries to confuse, when he is also confused.
Bring it back to making sense and answer the question SIMPLY. He does not answer the question. When he does that. He must be stopped with a big buzzer!
I feel the moderators should do that. Trump is a lout, who will not be stopped by Harris.
I don't think facts will work, Peggy. I think Harris needs to articulate her own position any time Donald brings something up. She should virtually ignore him, and certainly not engage with whether he uses facts or not. Voters, much to our collective dismay, don't care about facts. They care about what they feel, how what Harris says is somehow appealing to them, and maybe what dress designer her stepdaughter patronizes. They don't care about facts.
IT'S POLYGRAPHIN'TIME !! with a helping of truth serum.
The Trump gambit that infuriated me the most during his "debate" with Biden was ignoring the moderator's questions about climate change and family benefits, instead blasting into an hysteric rant about the '"border," which he had ordered the House GOP to leave as is for just this occasion. Even though his mike was muted, Trump could be heard roaring off-camera when Biden spoke -- and everyone shifted their attention to what the offstage monster was up to. You know, like when drunken old Uncle John roars his grievances at the dinner table, ruining the hours/days of hard work the womenfolk put into creating a nice Thanksgiving Day feast. It's a cherished American tradition, like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown. I'm eager to see how the other side will deal with it.
There is a term for guys like Trump: Dry Drunks. They act like out of control alcoholics, without the substance in their system. Often they grew up in a family where the chaos of alcoholism, or other addictions lead to unhealthy family habits & behaviors. Even those not using the substances were acting out as much as the addict. Trump is an excellent example of one. Unless they get help from Therapists and/or & by participation in Self-help groups such as Al-Anon a 12 Step Group, for Self-Awareness + Healing, to Deal more Affectively to Alter the Destructive Cycle, it Continues. Even if no substances are used.
Maybe he can get this help in prison....
Yes, dry drunk is a good term: there are lots of dry drunks out there who listen to Trump rant and say: "Hey, this guy is GOOD!" He's on their wave length.
"DRY DRUNKS ", I've seen them. My late uncle, sober as a judge, could be a helluva dry drunk in his way.
Whenever DJT's lips are moving and his hands are playing an air accordion, we ALL know he's lying..... just sayin'.....
K -“Like” Your words “air accordion” made me laugh/snort - completely unexpected but thank you for the morning laugh you just gave me! ;)
JP - “like” Definitely agree with fact checking in real time.
I'll be happy when we can all be like GROWNUPS, which you cannot be where MAGAts & DJT are. Put this sad, sordid chain of events over to history, although we NEED to remember.
With you there Daniel
I'd love to see that too, but it'll never happen. The aging, idiotic and cowardly Don will beg off all debates as if his political life depended on it - because it does.
He'd lose 15 points after any actual debate with Harris and he knows it. Let's make sure to call him out for the freakin' coward that he is.
People in chicken suits need to follow him around at rallies and bok-bok-abok-bok-bok-bok at him. Of course, they could be taking their lives in their hands what with ignorant, gun-toting MAGATs pecking around the yard.
K. McGady The odds are slim that a debate will occur. https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/donald-trump-hedges-presidential-debate-kamala-harris-election-2024-rcna168170
I was disappointed that the moderators didn't use an olfactometer in the Biden debate.
If DJT weasles out, Vice President Harris vowed she would still be there to call his bluff. I hope she stays her course, showing the entire world what a wanker DJT truly is. As I have amintained for decades, when his lips are moving, he is lying, and he is a thoroughly reprehensible and cowardly person. I think VP Harris can handle any nonsense and BS he dishes out,and I could not care less if he chickens out. That would only emphasize his cowardice. I am SO TIRED of having to spend ear, eye and brain time on that miserable excuse of a person.
I swear I got a whiff of it emitting from the TV speaker.
Might of broken it
I feel the same way. After the second admonition, Trump will probably explode. After all, his self control is a lie, like almost everything else about the man
Man?
More like King 👶 Baby
put a polygraph on him. They CAN be fooled, but not by Don, Mr subtle he ain't.
Donald trump is going to extinguish all tribes along with giving the casinos to Bali. I know Robert has not talked about this secret but it is true! Asheville North Carolina is the home of the Lumbe tribe and first.green.com making remote control skid loader. Pryor Oklahoma is the factory owned by the Cherokee and Pawne nations.
Asheville homie here. The mountains of western North Carolina is the land of the Cherokee Nation. Pembroke County down east is the home of the Lumbee tribe, a state-recognized only tribe(www.lumbeetribe.com)of about 55,000 members.
I live in Arizona, home of many native nations. We have four or five of the most extreme MAGA congressional representatives. (And by the way, no one is talking about these races.) I am ashamed to say that a truly egregious politician, Eli Crane, is my congressional representative (his newsletter to constituents is called "One in the Chamber" and the graphic is an AK-47 assault rifle). A former president of the Navajo Nation, Democrat Jonathan Nez, is running against the multi-millionaire Crane. I fear very much that Nez will lose. I don't think he has any money, or much political savvy. What is the tribal nations' position on Harris vs Trump? Are the tribes going to mobilize?
Case in point: trying to get a site on the UNUSED parking lot at the old Casino for a MYEVA>ORG electric vehicle show was blocked by Tribal Member Ernie Salgado. In that action the Tribal Chairman said there would never be any STEAM grants for the 1500 young Native Americans who attend Noli High School. Even to the point of disenroll tribal membership. The show was held at Mount San Jacinto College last Saturday and the fifteen students from Cabrillo High School brought the electric Car they built. This is only an eighty million dollar educational grant. This is what MAGA dose. No wonder Putin likes MAGA.
lololol
Hope Trump does not cancel the ABC Sept 10 debate!
They should just as successful as the parents of the screaming kid in a restaurant. Most of the Republican party is frozen in place because of trumpets 🎺 chokehold on their Treasury.. If he loses control of the money and the media BS attacks and take away his money then Trumpets 🎺 is Nobody, less than nobody…
Or "Reclaiming my time, reclaiming my time..."
Hmmmmm! I can see donOLD’s bonespurs making a comeback. Who’ll be the physician to “diagnose” them?
K - “like”
He will not stop speaking regardless.
Probably true...ugh!
Trump has an audience that he has to feed and keep. They believe him. They are encouraging him. In the debate he is out of his comfort zone, the loop.
If it wasn't this, Trump would have found another excuse to bail out of the debates. He's scared witless, of course he already was witless.
He’s scared s#!tless; and that is saying something!
Yep! Might be an empty diaper after that debate!🤣
I think you mean a completely full diaper.
Or a very full one. The last thing he wants is to have his crooked a** handed to him by a very intelligent woman of color.
That would be worse than having his smartphone crushed. He's pretty sure that he's seen the tiny elves that type his words.
Like
🤣🤣🤣🤣
You give him too much credit. He’s so full of shite he’ll never run out of it. Being witless though we know is true.
Ewww …
Trump would never bail. He loves the attention, and the debate, doesn't matter about content--is, to him, the event is strictly about personal attention. "Did you see our numbers? Did you see," by all measurements how much attention it commanded? Trump is not one to concern himself with substance. It's fun to be the focus of attention. He doesn't know policy or history, economics, law, political geography, science, anything about medicine, leadership, or the Bible. Just an order of attention please, straight-up.
Hi VJ - I think he will bail and here's why:
His only tactic is (and has been) to attempt to overwhelm anyone he's talking to with an overload of BS containing so many lies, insults and misrepresentations per minute that for many people it becomes impossible to respond to. The thing is, that only works for folks who don't know it's coming or just have a hard time talking (like Biden did).
There is a way to beat that; almost like a rhetorical martial arts move. You don't match him shout to shout, you don't try to fact check him; instead you let him walk into several well laid traps - and then spring them in succession. Each time the trap closes, it will get worse for Trump, making him look foolish, out of touch, old and let's face it - crazy.
Trump knows what will happen to him - likely even in a debate hosted by Fox. He'll bail and if he doesn't - he'll lose the election right there and then. So, fingers crossed - he has made some pretty stupid decisions before - just look at JD. And of course on the flip Biden, made a similar bad call and look what happened to him.
I hope he does debate, I just don't think he will.
Please expound on these "well laid traps".
There are a number of possibilities...
1) Take him into familiar territory that gets him to repeat some of the more nonsensical things he tends to deliver in his rally standup routines... and then smile more as he sticks his foot deeper in (building it).
2) - Let him get worked up and rude (whatever the topic) - and then tell him, 'you're not going to bully me,' or some variation of that as a slap down. The prosecutor kicks ass moment...
3) Set him up for one liners (lots of possibilities - and this would likely combine the first two).
4) Repetition - seems like a good time to bring back Reagan's 'there he goes again' - while either candidate might say that - it come off more genuine as a reaction to Trump's antics. And the line could be updated of course. Actually, lot's of options here.
Bottom line - what makes this all possible for Harris (and problematic) for Trump is that he has so many potential weaknesses to exploit. He will get himself into trouble time and again because he has no finesse, can't really think on his feet and his 'schtick' is about 100 years old. He's a one trick pony and the 1 trick (e.g. the lying bully gone wild) is old, boring and gross.
If he enters that stage, he'll leave a foot shorter and 10 points lower in the polls.
Trump’s ace-in-the-hole is, he doesn’t care about anything. Always relaxed because he doesn’t care, and this is what people expect of him. Stupid stuff, “Now argue with THAT!”
I figure Harris will have learned, Don’t address him or his assertions. Answer the moderator’s’ questions. Crazy makes a person crazy—don’t engage. She’s in a position to know: how to face him, how to enrage him, how to make a fool of him, though he will be confident throughout and after.
Trump will call it, A stolen debate, and disrespect viewers who rate his performance badly, 😆. Trump’s an expert debater; ask him, he’ll tell you.
Can’t lose his cool, he’s got none.
I doubt that he's going to be relaxed (if he does step into the ring), but agree with you on the rest. All bullies are at their core - very - insecure people. What's happening to him now is his worst case scenario.
I hope we get the chance to show him really melting down under pressure, because he will.
Whether the mic's are muted or unmuted, Trump will make every effort to speak non-stop whether it's his turn or not. Republicans must attend special training sessons to learn how to interrupt, over-talk, and never answer the question asked, but launch into one of their well-worn lies and/or talking-point rambles. I would not debate Trump or any of his henchmen (or women) -- ever!
I watch Bill Maher and he always has a conservative opposed to either a liberal or a libertarian.
And it does not fail, Conservative filibuster and overtallk, When Rachel Maddow was on Stephen Moore would not shut up as usual, and she had to stand up to get in a word. recently it was Kellyanne Conway and last Friday it was Dan one eyed Crenshow and James Carville sat quietly letting him overtalk, butt in and dominate the conversation.
There is method to the madness, So long as they can dominate the conversation, no body else can object, and they string together, false fact and statistics intermixed with real or misrepresented facts, and to counter them you would have to go into a 5 minute explanation, which would then be interrupted.
It is a tactic of the right, I expect it, what really bothers me is that the host, the moderator allows it, and they always do.
That's why I don't think a debate is worthwhile.
I don't either Kim, It can only hurt her. The media has normalized Trump and he can get away with murder (literally now).
It is the same with a sit down Interview, the media and i's whore hounds, are trying to force her into an interview so they can bombard her with gotcha questions, and then tear her apart.
There are to motivations in the media, to sell clicks and links (ads)
But also ideological. The financiers that own the media, believe that Trump is an asset because he will deregulate the economy, turn it into a monopolozing free for all, and reduce their taxes so they can further free load on middle America.
As a result they are hostile to Harris, the heir of Biden and a "liberal" Democrat.
I hope Harris ignores them, because she will be walking into a den of vipers.
We have to de - normalize TFG & the actions of his MAGA Minions. Let people know that this isn't the normal function of democracy.
I totally agree, but the problem is the media, they have normalized him, even MSNBC.
Do you see any outrage anymore.
Trump knows that banning abortion is a loser, he brags to his base that he is responsible for Dobbs, then the tells the rest of us and the lazy, or corrupt media that if elected he will not sign a national abortion ban. The man is a proven liar and will say anything, but has or will the media call him a liar? No, not in my lifetime.
I've lost confidence in media not trying to banjax the news 100 ways from the present.
100% agreement from me. Not only do I think it a waste of Vice President Harris' time, but it gives Trump air time and yeah, she may wipe the floor up with his hair piece or whatever it is on his head...but he still gets exposure. I say: can the debates.
And--btw--would someone please aim a swift, hard kick at Jason Miller's backside. He is one of Trump's more obnoxious mouthpieces and I cannot stand his snarkiness.
Agreed, we already know tRumps nuts and debate most likely won't change his cults mind
A debate is a verbal duel. Trump would make it into dissing a fat kid.
And, tell me why don't the moderators have the on/off switch to the candidates???????
They did at the last debate, but it didn't make a difference, Trump was standing close enough to Biden that he could overtalk, dominate the debate, and Biden could hardly think long enough to respond to one lie, before Trump unleashed a staccato of lies.
They need to be in soundproof chambers.
Please tell me you are not a member of Rupert's family.
A debate with this brat is a waste of perfectly good hot air that could probably be utilized with better effect someplace more DESPARATE.
Can't argue with crazy
What they're doing is commonly referred to as the Gish Gallop and needs to be stopped cold, if not by the moderator, then by the person being spoken over. It only works if it's allowed continue. It should be impolitely interrupted after the first debatable or clearly false statement and each such statement thereafter. Strings of lies should never be allowed to be uttered.
Harris needs to be ready to say, "Stop right there. That's a lie..." or something similar.
I can't imagine Trump saying "blithering idiots" - it's too many syllables.
Was going to say the same thing. Blithering is nowhere his vocabulary level.
There was an article several years ago about some of the many Republican men who quit his team mid-term going on record to say he is literally a moron. His own Republican team members.
Just let him growl like a CHUD.
I thought the same thing! He would have said fu@king idiots instead.
I'm thinking he'd be even more direct: "You f*cks"
He usually resorts to one- or two-word insults, if my memory serves me. Perhaps "failing," "failing badly," or, if he is feeling confident and glib, "dumb as a rock."
Confident! Glib! I did actually laugh out loud. Thanks for this analysis of his style, and have you got more?
Funny you should ask, Carol C. The “failing New York Times” has an interactive table of Trumpy insults from 2016 that I came upon while double-checking my memory of Trumpisms: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-insults.html
I was reminded of two of my favorites, “. . .should be ashamed.” “An embarrassment to our Country.”
So this is what we are still subjected to - petty arguments like we're in a Jr. High election for class president vs GOVERNING. I have to wonder if we'll ever get back to the business of the people. I'm beyond tired of the petty, pointless, personal, pathetic exchanges that may fuel media and its advertisers but do nothing to work for the needs and desires of us poor slobs who put them in office. The media loves this crap, abandoning its critical role in maintaining a democracy in favor of profitable advertisers. Shameful. Disgusting. A true betrayal of our country and citizenry. AGAIN!
Watching 'Election' (1999) would be an acceptable break from the election (take a break!)...
Everyone's hand is up to agree with you. I figure points are won if Harris keeps a straight face and delivers her responses in terms as dry and boring as they warrant. Politics is dull work, strategies, policies, creation of legislation that improves things, it's not supposed to be cheap-entertainment. [Trump is an entertainer; he has managed to make politics something it is not, some sort of World Wrestling fight, of interest to the masses, not really those steeped in interest for topics, but those wanting to see a chaotic brawl]. Let them get boring, and watch Trump lose his stuffing, trying to make it as interesting as a cowboy brawl, or that but without getting his hands dirty, it's a white collar brawl--if Trump gets to control the debate model.
And now he’s on the fence as to whether he even wants to debate her or not🙄.
He’s using the excuse of “changing the rules” about muted mics as his excuse. Pathetic.
That would be the Kabayashi Maru!
Earlier in the campaign season his aversion to *any* debate (i.e. with President Biden) - under any terms - was made clear; the idea that his sentiments would have changed (i.e. logically, predicated on some significant change of calculus e.g. regarding norms) seems a bit of a stretch...
PS: Dare to conjecture that he *never* wanted to & has *zero* excuse (Why should The President have to bother? Didn't he already beat Hillary Clinton, i.e. per the "400 lb. hacker on his bed" comment & so forth?)...
I reckon the Harris campaign does not care one way or the other about muted mikes. They are just making him display fear by threatening a taste of his own medicine
Bob Reich's newsletter today says the Harris campaign WANTS the mics to be un-muted. She WANTS him to interrupt and cuss and insult and lie. She has said more than once, "I'm a prosecutor with lots of experience. I know how to handle rapists, fraudsters, and convicted felons." I really hope I get to see her in action with un-muted mics.
As Garth Brooks sings .."I saw the surprise and the fear in his eyes".....Whether or not they really want it or want it all that badly, saying that they want it threatens him with a taste of what he dishes out and forces him to hem and haw with excuses
Except, Trump is incapable of fear. He can't see one inch in front of him. Consequences of election or debate, instead he gets into the moment and has no vision and no plan. There is probably a psychological term for it, a person who can ONLY live in the present moment, seeing no history nor future.
The Orange Vomit Being doesn’t listen.
He spews his vomitous bile.
Dry-Drunk Don is Always under the influence of his Stinkin’ Thinkin’
Cause he’s never admitted he’s doing it.
Haiku!
The Orange Vomit Being won’t listen.
He spews his vomitous bile.
&
The Orange Vomit Being won’t listen.
He spews his vomitous bile.
No mic required
= D
PS: One more-
Romain Senate Salad
Orange Julius pucker
Ides of March food court
He’s already complaining! My bet is he’ll refuse to debate because of the rules. He’s an Orange Chicken who’s running against a highly educated woman and he knows he can’t compete.
Orange chicken? It’s Foghorn Leghorn!
https://hips.hearstapps.com/esquireuk.cdnds.net/17/23/1024x512/landscape-1496731678-donald.png?resize=640:*
At this point, I'm not sure he is that aware.
Judge Merchon should give Donald Trump a one day sentence: make him wear his ankle monitor around his neck on the day of the debate. That's all. Just one day. This eliminates the problem of putting a former President in jail. Cruel and unusual, you say? No more cruel and unusual than putting Paula Jones and Bill Clinton's other sexual encounters in the audience at the debate with Hillary.
Let's confine him to Trump Tower with an ankle bracelet for four years, whether he wins the presidency or not.
And... what's the problem of putting a FORMER president in jail? Millions of folks in this country have spent time in prison for far, far lesser crimes. Martha Stewart comes to mind.
A slap on the wrist or suspended sentence will only continue to prove that the justice system is rigged for the rich. The Wall Street thieves and the Sackler (sp?) drug pushers always get a fine they can afford and no jail time. I hope Judge Merchon breaks the mold here and has T immediately remanded to Riker's Island with no bail. If he has any appeals left he can do it from jail. I'll bet a weeks pay if any of us were found guilty of 34 felony counts on the same day, any judge would have behind us bars before sundown!.
Cheers... GH
Only, Martha Stewart's insider trading was no "far lesser crime," selling shares to purchasers who had no idea, no legal way to know what she knew, that they were buying high, while she, the seller, knew in advance share prices were going to tank and if only she could unload hers on the innocent unsuspecting. Stewart did some prison time for taking advantage of share markets and that was justice doing its job. Your assertion "millions have spent time in prison for less," true, so end there. An entitle wealthy informed advantage-taker was a ricochet tangent from your important point.
VJ. Thanks for your thoughts. In no way was I defending Martha Stewart and her crimes. She deserved some prison time and did the time. My comment was to point out her number of felonies, 4, compared to DT;s 34. The number of folks she and her partners cheated probably numbered in the hundreds or maybe thousands. We do know that DT's felonies were a direct attack on the law abiding 19 million citizens of New York State and they found him guilty for those. Did his acts cost folks money? I don't know and really don't have time to do all the research to find out. Even if her crimes are considered worse than his, he still should do at least some time. Aways looking forward to your comments.
Cheers... Gary
This discussion is a no-brainer. Knowing Trump’s past behavior, he will chicken out of the debate either by not showing up, canceling at the last minute or become apoplectic on stage when he realized that his mic is on mute. I’d love to see him dragged off the stage ranting and raving as the waiting medics wrestle him into a strait jacket.
THE HONORABLE THING - DJT " What's honour ? ".
Oh Boy, here we go?! My best guess is donOLD will Not Debate, for what ever reason he'll come up with?! But,if he does, It will be Legendary 😂 VP Harris will wipe the floor with him💯💙🇺🇸
Excellent article, Professor Reich. I've been waiting and waiting for Trump's big moment ala the final scene in "A Face in the Crowd" where Lonesome Roads's (Andy Griffith) true self in revealed on live TV before his gushing fans. His professional handlers turn their backs on him and he shrinks and shreaks to the reality that his is a has-been. That day may very well on September 10th.
Go Blue Ohio (it happen on or after September 10th.
Had the same old movie hit ...still, you said it first.
He wants control and I know he can (not) control his mouth. I see the Harris point! Just no fans!
This could be as crazy as an old installment of Jerry Springer.
The Trump "responses" are inauthentic. Not only is everything spelled correctly, but "blithering" has three syllables.
"Such fantastic raiment!“
"Where did they find such perfect cloth?"
"He'll be the envy of the entire continent!"
"But the Emperor is naked..."