Trump should've been jailed immediately after the Capitol Insurrection he planned, organized & incited in plain daylight. He has repeatedly shown himself to be a public & national security risk. Anybody else who had done 10% of what Trump did would be in prison awaiting trial.
I don't think we know the full extent of collusion and/or the fear that he would evoke the insurrection act in how things played out. But we are extremely indebted to the Capitol police. He's still intimidating Pence, IMO.
I’m already shocked! Was horrified when he received Republican nomination in 2015-terrified while watching tv January 6, 2021-feel oppressed by right wing extremists groups-praying for our country-
We are ALL shocked and disgusted,but as MLK said'the moral arc of the universe swings towards justice'.I believe with all my heart that WE WILL OVERCOME,even w/ all it's flaws,our nation is worth saving!!!
But I so hate to lose the illusion that we are still a Democracy -Our Constitution and Declaration of Independence were not written for the illusion of a Democracy or for “a little experiment in Democracy” please let me hold to some sort of optimism-if even by a thin thread
robert ; We were /are still striving to form "a more perfect union" in our still fledgling Democracy. It's not like it's instant just because it's our goal. the plans on paper a democracy does not make. "A Republic ; If we can keep it."!?
It is not much of a democracy at the best of times. For 100 years after the Civil War blacks were denied their basic rights in our democracy. We have to fight for what we have left. Of course, ask the native Americans about out democracy.
I dunno….how can one be shocked by information when one has a blindfold on and fingers in one’s ears? Just like the hearings, fox told them not to watch and they obeyed. And it is not certain that the trial will even be televised.
Even IF it is televised, Goebbels Nooz (and all of the other FASCIST 'outlets') will tell all of their obedient brownshirts to not watch that as well. :(
I agree. I think Jack Smith (& perhaps some others) knows a lot more about what really went on than most people realize. I hope it includes some of the Russian & Saudi connections, although I haven't seen much sign of investigation of international matters.
Except for the (hopefully small percentage, but still way too large for my liking) parts of this country praying for and even DEMANDING outright fascism at this point.
It is sickening that these NAZI scum try to claim that they are 'Constitutionalists'. :(
I have personal experience with this with my long lost brother who was as right wing as you could get. NO form of facts could ever dissuade him from his beliefs. I suspect that the majority of the MAGA true believers are similar. They have to stumble on the truth themselves.
The MAGA Republicans I know don’t seem to care about truth. They think it is whatever they say. They have these emotional opinions they believe are true. They refuse to listen to anyone who disagrees. You just have to stand there until they finish. They don’t seem rational.
David, that is still only 1/3. a candidate needs 1/2 +1.
There are a few braggards out here, daydreaming of doing us harm. That doesn't mean they will. I'm awaiting the Iowa Caucus and other primaries. MAGA Republicans want to dominate, but they are not the only ones; Before too long, some folks in the Party will point out that there is likely to be a blue tsunami that will make their party obsolete:
He is intimidating Pence, and anyone he feels is or could be standing in his way. The spread of intimidation is something that needs to be more publicly discussed.
Listening to Pence, I wonder if he is running to protect himself. He had the audacity to do his constitutional duty, but no one in his party really supports him (except maybe Dan Quayle). I wonder what protections candidates get these days.
I think he figures anything can happen in the nomination process given the incertainties that exist, and he might be a reasonable alternative for many in the GOP, and the big money. He was VP after all.
From an historical perspective, it worked in Nazi Germany, so who is to say it wouldn’t work here for some period of time? Fear and intimidation IS the intent. You have to try and force your opposition into passivity. In the end, it cannot stand because the nation becomes so corrupt that it cannot function. See the Soviet Union as an example and why the state eventually failed.
I disagree 100% with Pence’s political views but I am forever grateful he didn’t cave in to Trumps badgering. He seems to be the only Republican with a backbone.
Please don't forget Liz Cheney. She has been remarkable. I would never vote on topics as she does but boy, do I admire her bedrock understanding of a democracy.
I'm grateful, too, Mark, but remember that it came out in J6 Committee testimony that Pence consulted with a whole roster of attorneys, all of whom told him he had no standing to question the election results or choose alternate slates of electors. It wasn't until it was made clear to him that he had no legal option other than to merely preside over the vote counting that he stood up to TFG. In other words, he tried like hell to find a justification to do TFG's bidding, but ultimately was afraid of the legal consequences. His last resort was to follow the law. That doesn’t make him courageous, merely law-abiding when he had to be. As opposed to all the enabling he did for four years.
Judge Michael Luttig, a conservative judge advised Pence when he called for support. He told him he did not have constitutional authority to do what he was being pressured to do.
Pense’s responsibility here is to redirect his Christian fold into understanding that Trump and his minions are indeed false idols. And remind them of the teachings of Christ, which are 180 degrees from Trump’s deeds here on earth.
Article 3, 14th Ammendment: "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."
Agreed. Unfortunately, Smith didn’t bring insurrection charges. Legally, this this article then apply in this instance given the charges. Unfortunately I think it’s like a dotted line than a direct link.
Their conclusion is exactly mine. It's self-acting. Participants in the insurrection/coup attempt automatically are disqualified from running again. This applies not only to Trump, but also members of Congress & other government officeholders involved in it. In other words, people like Cruz, Tuberville, Gosar, Biggs, Gaetz, Greene, Boebert, etc. should've already been expelled before last election. Both Houses should be majority Democratic. We should already have lots of progressive legislation passed like the Build Back Better bill, elimination or restriction (to talking only) of the filibuster, the voting rights bill, reinstatement/codification of Roe vs. Wade, vision & dental coverage included in Medicare, student debt forgiveness, wealth taxes, debt ceiling rise, & this country would be far better off now.
I am very disappointed that Democrats, save a few, don't fight harder for us, & utilize tools they have available to pass great policies for the people & environment.
Yes, it IS shocking that THEY of all PACs, the promoters and DEMANDERS of extremist, hard core RIGHTwingnut judges, and executive power consolidation (and therefore fascism as well;)), came out with that joint statement. :)
Something else that's silently conspicuous - and confounding. What ever happened to the full Mueller Report? Has anyone bothered to subpoena an unredacted version? If so, when? Maybe I just missed or forgot about it and it's out there. But if it is, I wonder why nobody's making a bigger deal out of that - particularly with regard a 14th Amendment lawsuit?
I remember Mueller saying it >doesn't< exonerate ol' Tweety.
It is obvious the Robert Mueller met a lot of 'witnesses' who refused to talk or lied to him. Also, he never "followed the money". That is why it landed with a thud, not to mention the sabotage by Bill Barr, who ought to be dis-Barred.
I do believe it should be re-visited, and those who lied or would not speak to him should be questioned anew.
When you see that Jack Teixeira, the Army kid accused of sharing classified documents with his gaming buddies, is in pre-trial detention as a national security threat, you see how skewed the system is toward the rich. No way this kid is more of a threat than tfg.
Like I keep on saying, anybody else who had done a fraction of what Trump did would've been locked up long ago as a clear & present danger to national security.
Yes, but sadly, in our system (as has been pointed out by numerous 'pundits') all it takes is just ONE of the Goon's brownshirt goons on the jury to throw the whole case.
It does not matter how 'open and shut, black and white, plain as day' definitive and COMPELLING the evidence and PROOF is, their singular devotion and loyalty to their putrid orange fuehrer will get him off. :( :( :(
The whole thing does depend on just how thoroughly can Smith (and all of the other prosecutors) and their team(s), 'weed out' all of those devout MAGA worshipers/potential exonerators, and will they be allowed to keep them off said juries??
If you or I did what he did we would be charged with treason and be dying in prison for a thousand years. How has this piece of human garbage escaped justice for so long? Let me guess.......money perhaps. Justice is for sale in the USA.
It used to be the rich got off because they had good lawyers. Now the rich get off because they aren’t even charged. So good to see that after the very long wait we are seeing many indictments of this multi-criminal.
So many of tRump's January 6 foot soldiers have found themselves in jail awaiting trial or sentenced to jail for answering tRump's call to come to D.C The regular people have met tougher consequences than the orange menace.
The crowds at the early court dates were slim to none. In NYC, the spectators shouted "New York Hates You! "New York Hates You"! as his motorcade went by.
They are so acquiescently brainwashed by said fascist 'outlets' that they are enthusiastically throwing themselves 'under the buses' even BEFORE their putrid orange fuehrer asks them to do that for him out of his one way demand for loyalty.
Hi, Janet! I have recently seen an uptick of right-wingers blaming Trump for not "draining the swamp" when he was in power, so there may be some erosion in support. Of course, they're probably DeSantis supporters & would vote for Trump over Biden.
Bunkerboy would have been PUBLICLY EXECUTED if this were the 1700s on January 7th! THEY weren't under the obese boot of loser billionaires back then, even though racism still ran just as strongly.
Yes, I think I'm okay, but in the beginning of a heat wave, maybe a heat dome, here in Oregon, & it's already hot early in the morning. How are you doing there in Colorado?
Jane. Trump should have been jailed already for "I will come after you".
The worst conduct occurred in New York, where he is under NY state law. NY has contempt statutes. Trump and his sons attacked the judge, his family, Bragg and others including Jack Smith. IMHO he continues to violate the terms of his bail and the judge's several charged warnings. He remains under the jurisdiction of that NY court. But the NY court has not sanctioned him.
He was also warned by the magistrate in Miami. IMHO he has violated that warning, but the prosecution has not asked for sanctions.
In the DC case, so far, Jack Smith has not asked the court to take judicial notice of the conduct in the prior proceedings and has not asked for sanctions, despite the magistrate's warning, to the "I'll come after you...."
Bankman-Fried was living in the Bahamas. Apparently the judge gave him an opportunity to be heard before revoking bail.
Jack Smith can ask the court to take judicial notice of the other proceedings where Trump has been warned. If I were the judge, I'd order the parties to brief the allegation that by asserting if "I'll come after you..." constitutes a violation of the magistrate's bail order.
The judge has indicated that if there are violations, she could accelerate the trial date. When a violator has the ability to pay, monetary fines are usually the most efficient way to gain compliance. Jack Smith can ask the court to take judicial notice that Trump files financial statements regularly and alleges he is a billionaire. The judge has to take evidence, make findings of fact that sanctions lie. If Trump had to pay, say, $10,000,000 for every occurrence to get him to stop defaming his adversaries and threatening witnesses, IMHO an attitude adjustment would happen.
I like the idea of a huge fine. It should be coupled with confiscation of physical property, perhaps Mar-a-Lago. Texas has confiscated people's cars and personal belongings for nonsensical or nonexistent traffic offenses in smaller towns, so this works for me.
jail is the only thing the rich fear -- fines mean nothing to them.
In the banking crisis of 2008, seemingly big penalties were levied against the defendant CEOs but paid by the shareholders. The fat cats that called the shots and brought the country to ruin got off. I believe they were civil cases. If so that was a huge "mistake".
I worked over 20 years at EPA civil enforcement - when a company pollutes it does so knowingly and intentionally. Thats criminal. But its rare that a case is deemed criminal. Thats a political break and its hidden from the public.
Fines or penalities might seem big but in fact the DOJ and EPA managers on the civil cases I worked on all knew that the penalty amount was a slap on the wrist, ie always far too small an amount to deter repeat violations, and too small to remove the economic benefit from the noncompliance with pollution laws as required by the Clean Air Act.
The penalty is then simply paid by the company not those responsible, the plant managers and the corporate officers in charge, who are never charged with criminal negligence , and then its all quietly deducted as a business expense, including the lawyers defense fees [which are huge] and the public never hears about it.
The prosecutors in these criminal cases are worse, they are political appointees and in cahoots with the bad guys.
Not always true. Plus, depending on the statute, I could debar or put companies out of business when warranted.
I once debarred a company from doing business with the government for violating the Service Contract Act for stuff like failing to keep records, underpaying employees. Small case. Involved stuff like cutting grass on government properties, maybe some rural postal deliveries.
Turned out same company had $millions in DOD contracts in Afghanistan and Iraq and by debarring them they lost millions.
It doesn't matter how much money he has to pay. His mega rich billionaires and his supporters are happy to pay his bills. Especially the billionaires and the corporations that got a huge tax break and pay very little taxes and some don't pay any taxes at all.
I heard on the news that his son-in-law received 2 billion dollars. Do you think trump is going to let his son-in-law keep that money. When he was behind the scene to accomplish that.
I am waiting to hear what that 2 billion dollars was for. All I heard was for an investment,what does that mean.Folks don't toss that kind of money around.
Are you referring to the $2 billion that the Saudi public investment fund invested in Jared’s new private equity fund within 6 months of leaving office?
Let us remember he does everything with Other Peoples Money. Because he is so smart.
Maybe some day other people will stop sending it. He’s already talking about “volunteer lawyers”. It seems a lot of trumps past lawyers were volunteers, whether they knew they were going to be unpaid or not.
He decided not to use the insurrection statutes, seditious conspiracy which I feel are most appropriate .,,,so far. I also think he can prosecute the Saudi connection under FARA.
I would have charged the low hanging fruit first. But Garland wasted over a year.....
IMHO the cooperating witnesses will disclose other crimes
Looking forward to Georgia and a possible RICO action.
I would love to see the threats addressed by the court. I wonder if the courts are being so cautious because the only true thing I think trump has ever uttered was that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his fans would still love him. Is the danger this man represents from half the witless, gullible, reality tv believing population the reason they do not? New York and DC are not venues packed with rabid trumpers, but they know how to get there.
I’d be interested in why you think it has not happened. Is it in law, or in concern for civil unrest? How does a judge weigh this?
No one would let Sam get away with shooting someone.
Presumably a prosecutor could brief the issues and start the ball rolling. Especially in a high profile, political case, it seems to me that the prosecutor has a duty to brief the issues and ask the judge to purge as the facts clearly warrant,
Hate to sound like a coward, but the so-called grass-roots followers of Trump are in my opinion just a front for the big money that's behind them--money that could be fast drying up. However, these followers make a lot of noise, are rabid and are the main stay of the Repubs. The hysteria that abounds in their ranks is what has caused the existing division in the country with the help of the right-wing media and bring with them the promise of escalating these divisions to a point that we could be faced with not seeing a feasible end without further violence.
Putting the traitor in jail at this point will invite his followers to make a stand for their savior. IMO, for the most point (with reservation) the prosecution is being so laborious and tedious in their actions to avoid this at all cost. It can't just seem like overwhelming proof to the Court or the sane; it must also attempt to be overwhelming proof of his guilt on all counts to these nut jobs, and also show that the prosecution is totally working within the bounds of the law, no matter what he spouts off in retaliation. Preventing further violence may not be possible, but maintaining correctness is a must if we want to win the next presidential election.
On second thought, Daniel, you are right that prison would bestow instant martyrdom. Moreover he might find a number of supportive Trumpheads there who would help incite yet another uprising, unless he were placed in maximum solitary with no means of communication. Maybe even the news cycle would find something else to roar about.
Yes and its because he is above the law. Like no other individual before him he knows how to destroy law with his power. He is not afraid to take the risks to exercise his special talent of chaos and destruction. He has found the flaws in our overrated checks and balances system and is making jackasses out of everyone who plays by the rules.
Of course but that is easier said than done. ALL of his voters vote and since the last election, republicans have put into place new laws making it easier for them to cheat and harder for dems to vote. And dems don’t vote in near the numbers republicans do. Of course they should but the fact of the matter is, they don’t.
The problem is the electoral college. Our votes are distorted. In reality he wasn’t elected the first time. And he planned to use that same distortion as a means to steal the election the second time. To those that consider the EC to be essential for states rates I say “you can keep your two Senators - that’s plenty of distortion of power”.
Wait... that’s what everyone said about Trump the first time! With that said, after all the current drama plays out, I don’t believe either Trump nor Biden are going to be the final nominees for 2024. And that would not be such a bad thing.
Well, if not biden then who? RFK Jr or Cornell west? Which of these three could beat trump? Unfortunately if either of those last two run as third party candidates, trump will win for sure. Even if either of the two happen to gain the dem nomination, of the three, Biden is still our best shot. Dems need to fall in line like the republicans do. The republicans have had much success in gaining power with that strategy. Dems need to forget about that falling in love with a candidate. A good way to lose, as history has proven.
It’s sad to say but you are absolutely correct. He has no concern whatsoever about what his actions will do to our country and his followers refuse to see the destruction he has caused.
I agree. I would very much like to understand what acts are necessary for the judge to shut him down? How many times does he get a by before the judge decides it’s too much? Seems like in Bankman-Fried’s case, there were multiple violations before he finally went to jail.
The political elites close ranks and do not advocate jail for class reasons. Class is the simplest way to state it. Class includes the richly deserving corrupt Boards of Directors, the corrupted politically appointed prosecutors and class blinkered judges, and the venal lawyers as well as the gamers in the WH and Congress. Did any of the prosecutors in the 2008 crisis cases or now in the Trump cases demand jail?
Trumps several trials seem to be taking too long, or are very slow in coming. Is this the norm or if not the norm, what then is the reason for the apparent delays?
First Garland took so long to begin investigation until the mountain of evidence of wrongdoing was too massive to continue to ignore. Jack was hired almost 2 years after the fact, but he is doing about as much as fast as 1 man can do. But the amount & severity of crime is huge & much of it is intricate, with plenty of evidence to sift through & make sense of, & witnesses to examine. Then there are legal procedures to follow, with Trump's side putting up as much obstacles & delay tactics as they can. But it's also a race against time, with the 2024 election always in mind.
I'm sympathetic and personally agree. But a number of TV legal pundits have suggested that a federal judge would be reluctant sent Trump to jail. Bill Barr has also stated that he doesn't think the courts or DOJ would, as a political matter, be willing to send a former President to prison. They may be right. Judge Chutkan's warning that threats or interference with witnesses would be reason for an earlier trial may be a stronger deterrent.
Samuel Bankman-Fried's incarceration is good news.
I would like to think that Trump will stop his belligerence, but I honestly believe he's going to deliberately test the Judge in D.C., because he wants the trial date delayed, at any cost, including his own incarceration; this would certainly be an enormous boost to his campaign and fundraising.
I was also pleasantly surprised that the SCOTUS blocked the Purdue Pharmaceutical's settlement, and will take up the case in December.
I thought that the original verdict (giving the Sacklers lifetime immunity from prosecution, in exchange for a 6 billion dollar settlement) was a gross miscarriage of justice, since the Sackler family ,was, in reality, an American drug cartel.
They lock up a guy who sells an ounce of crack and yet Sacklers sell dope to millions and they get off the hook. Can we wring out any justice in this system? Go to black neighborhood and occupation troops are there. The rich live in gated communities and the po-lice are their friends.
Lest we forget, the California Legislature passed Assembly Bill 487, signed into law on October 4, 2001, which required most California-licensed physicians to take, as a one-time requirement, 12 units of continuing medical education (CME) on pain management. At the course I took, the lecturers promoted eliminating pain with narcotics. Overprescribing narcotics has led to our fentanyl crisis. Now physicians are more careful about prescribing narcotics.
Trump fits the diagnosis of Psychopath perfectly. He cares for no one but himself and is willing to do anything to get what he wants. If he were poor or black he would be serving life in some hell hole prison.
" I honestly believe he's going to deliberately test the Judge in D.C., because he wants the trial date delayed, at any cost …"
Judge Tanya Chutkan is ahead of you—and the criminal defendant, Deborah Carroll. If he violates her orders she threatened to move forward the start of his trial. So far, not a peep from him since … stay tuned.
And what do we say about a government that allows such abuses to go on for so very long ? you know a book could be written on the federal governments war against its citizens over the last 50 years. I don’t think insurrection is the answer, though a major overhaul, a major reset is needed. Like that eponymous group says we need a new Congress.
There also should be a national anti gauging law when pandemics or national emergencies are over. There are no gauging laws for hurricanes why not for post pandemic and national emergencies. We are being gouged on everything because companies during the pandemic found out citizens would pay more for stuff. So why lower their prices? That is why inflation is so bad. Greedy corporations.
Considering her performance so far (insurrectionist trials before Man From Queens duties), JudgeTanya Chutkan ranks right up there with Jack Smith. They are real throwbacks to a time when excellence wasn't a surprise. I can't wait till they and mfQ are in the same room.
I'm just sorry that this discredited politician eats up the news cycle thus blocking news (and pleas for help) from the latest environmental tragedy in Maui. Lock him up already!
You are so kind calling him a discredited politician...he's an opportunist (he has nothing to do with the politics) who transferred his "con" skills from the other "jobs" he previously had :-)))
@MooGoo. Hah! My weak attempt at insult was intended to show how pathetic and uninteresting that grifter actually is. He is a criminal as our system of laws will soon confirm.
His punishment will be hundreds of millions in donations and a get out of jail card. When will idealists realize Trump has beaten the system. When do the pundits wake up and stop telling this time he is gone to far and he is going to pay.
No. The trial will be delayed until after the election and he will be elected the final destroyer of our democracy. I am terrified for our futures in this country under this new age Hitler.
He should've been jailed as a public & national security threat as anyone else would've been who had planned, organized & incited an insurrection, coup attempt & assassination or kidnapping attempts on high government officials; stolen government documents to use for blackmail or to give or sell government secrets to international adversaries; or sent threats to legal, judicial & government authorities & potential witnesses.
I don't think it's quite time yet to be hyperventilating, Kelly. Registered Republicans are in the minority to start with, and not all of them support TFG. Independents tend to skew Dem. In 2020, there was a higher-than-average Dem turnout. All of which makes it less likely that TFG will get even as many votes in 2024 as he got in 2020.
Assuming he's the nominee. He could suck down one too many cheeseburgers between now and then. Or the Rethugs could become disenchanted if he's in the slam by this time next year (not likely, but....). There are so many variables, it's WAY too early to be doom-saying. Please, for your own sake, do yourself a favor and chill for awhile.
On the other hand, Republicans have done everything they can to tarnish Biden's reputation through Hunter's laptop & various specious accusations, putting the same kind of cloud of suspicion on Biden that was the key to Hillary's loss. They've denigrated his actually quite remarkable economic record enough that most people have a negative view of it. And they will do everything possible to cheat the system (in far more ways than is commonly perceived) in order to "win" the election. We need to be far more vigilant than we have been in past elections.
Any of the following not so improbable events could sabotage Biden's chances: serious health issues, a sharp economic downturn, the scandal involving Hunter festers with more damaging information & perhaps more solid evidence of serious wrongdoing; Ukraine is defeated, the war spreads, we have a nuclear conflagration, China invades Taiwan, or any of a number of other possible international crises in this increasingly unstable world (which Trump will try to take advantage of by proclaiming he, & only he, can solve these crises); or some devastating environmental, climate or food/water crisis sets the world spiraling into uncontrollable devastation, disease & famine.
@John. Ya know, there is actually an argument (or a few) that he should not actually go to prison. First, I repeated an argument here that it would be best if he makes a bargain plea. He won't go to prison if he agrees never to run for or hold political office. Probably some fines, some probation, some house arrest, etc. That scenario cramps his style many ways fore example by reducing his ability to do political fund raising, reduces his ability to impact international leaders, reduces the chances of domestic violence related to him, takes away a main rationale that right wing politicians and "pundits" now have to keep this jerk and his "views" at the forefront of the news, undermines the recruiting drives for groups like the Proud Boys and others, and serves as a disincentive for other wanna be autocrats that you can't really get away with that in this country. So a lot of good could be done if the tangerine twat waddle pussy grabbing grifter is plea bargained out of prison.
Absolutely not! The crimes Trump has committed against America & Americans are far too egregious not to require prolonged incarceration. He must be held fully accountable. Our recurring problems with corrupt & criminal Republican Presidents stem from not punishing the wrongdoing of their Republican predecessors.
could agree more but the RICH are always allowed to get away with what mere mortals will be held to account. THIS APPLIES to big corporations too who pay too little tax by salting away profits through clever accounting to TAX FREE OR LOW TAX HAVENS!
If nothing changes the system will eventually collapse with a people led revolution!!!!
Yes, and then there is the ability of corporations to purchase their own stocks in order to artificially prop up their value. Many American companies used Covid pandemic funds from American taxpayers to do this very thing!
Stock buybacks are stock market manipulation. Done to boost the stock price and earnings per share to enable management to collect their bonuses. Illegal prior to 1982. You are taking a safe shareholder asset (cash) and using it to purchase a risky asset (the company stock) without the shareholders having any say in the matter. IMHO, at the very least, all stock buybacks should be approved by the company's shareholders by proxy beforehand. Or the SEC could make a rule that buybacks are only allowed where it can be clearly demonstrated that the company's stock is undervalued in the market (this will be tough to do).
Yes. Another soul resisting by speaking out is of great value. It also helps you feel better yourself that you are still contributing to your community by speaking out against wrongdoing. It helps promote a better future for *the young people*.
Have a look at what DavidHogg is doing with respect to getting younger people into state legislatures. He and his young colleagues are inspirational, and moral support always helps.
NatureBear.....I am all mouth these days. I rave at the system from my computer. Too old and broken down to do the deeds that must be done. If I went to a demonstration I would probably fall on my face.
And the Supreme Court made that megaphone much bigger with citizens United. If you read up on corporate rights as individuals it is a house of cards. The whole thing is built in a supposed Supreme Court precedent that never existed (some scribe made it up in the case summary). But of course the Supreme Court is another thread
obviously every generation fails to fix the mess dumped in their lap by the previous generation. then the old farts before they depart excuse themselves by saying that they dont know what to do about it.
The magic of jail is its silencing effect. The world needs relief from his fire hose of malignant vitriol. Global catastrophes require our urgent collective attention.
Rome is burning while we all listen to the con man fiddle.
I don't listen to him at all anymore! I haven't for about a full year now. Yes, I notice the headlines but I change the tv channels and I strictly avoid YouTube videos pertaining to him. I don't read articles about him either.
Trump related headlines are all that I can tolerate unless I am in the mood for either venting rage or chucking my breakfast.
And we also need to hear of the progress that Biden is achieving - he is being drowned out by the news focus on someone who should have been prosecuted long ago.
If only there were evidence hahahaha. In the meanwhile there plenty of evidence his policies are reversing the terrible trends that started in the 1980s. Long overdue. Long live Bidenomics!
Hahaha! Actually, I wish he would at least do an LBJ & decline to run for re-election, so that some candidates with great ideas on how to solve our problems, including a much stronger policy on dealing with climate chaos & environmental destruction that they can get all Democrats & the vast majority of Americans behind, will run.
Whether Trump has made statements that can be considered direct intimidation of witnesses, versus generalized political statements, I couldn’t say. But a serious warning shot could be delivered to him by revoking his passport. With his indictments piling up, and given his financial and other resources, he is a flight risk. Even if he would not flee, it would have an important psychological impact on him to realize that he CANNOT flee.
Yes, and even if his language is not a literal threat towards individual witnesses, in Trump’s case he knows that his language riles up some of his MAGA base to the point of violence, and that risks would be intimidating. So it does seem that a judge would have the basis for finding him in violation of the terms of his release.
Berry / Daniel—The criminal defendant's unusual restraint since Judge Chutkan ruled Friday suggests his legal team thinks his mob-veiled language could be construed as menacing. Her brilliantly logical threat to start the trial early if rhe defendant violates her orders was more effective than any mundane financial or incarceration threat could have been. Can't wait till he's in the same room with her and Jack Smith.
Our economic system is based on managers deciding on who has a livelihood and who doesn't. That is not a rational, successful or ethical way to run a national economy. People need guaranteed opportunity and the power of these robber barons over the lives of the workforce must be weakened.
No, we need to organize and strike globally. We need to stop competing wth each other and start cooperating with each. The writers went on strike, the actors joined them. Solidarity will win the day. We need more mutual aid communities before we strike. So let's start forming more of them. They work brilliantly.
If every community began to run the old Mom and Pop grocery stores, the independently run gas stations, clothing stores and pharmacies and quit buying from corporate America, things might actually start working again. These big corporations would not be able to produce the money to their greedy shareholders and would feel the pinch. We need more Americans to shop their local stores.
Stop buying Amazon would be a great place to start. My friends do not understand how “voting with you dollars” works. It isn’t just what you do or don’t buy, it’s also who you buy it from.
It is disturbing that a wealthy person being in jail shocks; SBF belongs in jail, as does Trump, and it is a sad commentary on the fairness of our judicial system that we expect them to get away with it.
Yes!!! Accountability--once merely a wished-for outcome for these rich criminals, might become a reality! Bring it on! Make accountability "fashionable"...or at least a probable after-conviction outcome. Accountability and Common Good go together well!
Considering that Trump’s main defense is delay, I expect, in the foreseeable future, that Trump’s D.C. legal team will appeal a pre-trial ruling to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals that ultimately will work its way to the Supreme Court. In the absence of rigorous court reform, I don’t believe the rule of law is adequately protected.
@steveandjanereed, Though I would say, “hostile-to-democracy Supreme Court” MAJORITY, your comment precisely mirrors my thoughts. Thank you for writing.
Daniel, To clarify my point, I expect, with 11+ million pages of discovery to review, that D.C. Defense Counsel, once a trial date is set, will appeal for more time. Regardless of how the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals rules, I expect the Defense to appeal to the Supreme Court, at which point I don’t believe anyone can predict the outcome.
Daniel, Because I’m not an attorney, I suppose, along with much of the population, while I believe the prosecution has met its burden of proof, I will remain hopeful but also concerned about pre-trial machinations. Still, as an attorney, your words are assuring.
Jerry M : Funny ; I don't think of Biden as a bully. Maybe he will earn the title when the super wealthy corps have to start paying workers more as CEOs get higher pay. THEN they will whine and call him a terrible bully maybe. The fact that this seems so far fetched underscores the laughable idea that Biden is a dumb bully!
Samuel, George, and Donnie are rotten fish left in the fridge and subsequently forgotten. Santos couldn't find his way home without a GPS, and Bankman is almost as corrupt as Trump. I can't stop from picturing the three sitting on some random fire place mantel in the positions prosperity has assigned them. Except, these three monkeys aren't wise.
Yes, in this case the Times complaint that freedom of the press is overridden seems misguided. The man is under arrest for serious felonies, and intimidating his former girlfriend and employee hardly sounds like something they should abet.
I feel the media is partially to blame with these rich muckity mucks!! They pander to them, give them all the space they want and need because the media is also run by the wealthy. The journalist will say whatever they are told to say so they can keep their jobs!
Very cautiously hopeful here. Watching one case at a time, for judges to uphold the rule of law applied equally to all, regardless of status, wealth or presidential aspirations...
The wealthy are only held accountable when they steal from other wealthy people. When they steal from us, not so much. Wage theft is a major and ongoing problem. Corporations only get a slap on the wrist, so to speak.
Trump should have been jailed already for "I will come after you".
Trump should've been jailed immediately after the Capitol Insurrection he planned, organized & incited in plain daylight. He has repeatedly shown himself to be a public & national security risk. Anybody else who had done 10% of what Trump did would be in prison awaiting trial.
I don't think we know the full extent of collusion and/or the fear that he would evoke the insurrection act in how things played out. But we are extremely indebted to the Capitol police. He's still intimidating Pence, IMO.
I believe that his involvement and what he was prepared to do will come out during trial and I believe the country will be shocked!
I’m already shocked! Was horrified when he received Republican nomination in 2015-terrified while watching tv January 6, 2021-feel oppressed by right wing extremists groups-praying for our country-
Jennifer: It's more like they are preying on our country! They raid our treasury with the help of their bought and paid for useful idiots!
It seems they give tax cuts for the rich from further burdening the poor and middle income
We are ALL shocked and disgusted,but as MLK said'the moral arc of the universe swings towards justice'.I believe with all my heart that WE WILL OVERCOME,even w/ all it's flaws,our nation is worth saving!!!
I very much agree with you. We came very close to losing our democracy.
Lark, may I add we are still very close to losing our democracy. We must stay vigilant and active.
Trump’s not yet finished with his strikes against our ailing democracy.
We came very close to losing our illusions of Democracy.
But I so hate to lose the illusion that we are still a Democracy -Our Constitution and Declaration of Independence were not written for the illusion of a Democracy or for “a little experiment in Democracy” please let me hold to some sort of optimism-if even by a thin thread
robert ; We were /are still striving to form "a more perfect union" in our still fledgling Democracy. It's not like it's instant just because it's our goal. the plans on paper a democracy does not make. "A Republic ; If we can keep it."!?
It is not much of a democracy at the best of times. For 100 years after the Civil War blacks were denied their basic rights in our democracy. We have to fight for what we have left. Of course, ask the native Americans about out democracy.
I dunno….how can one be shocked by information when one has a blindfold on and fingers in one’s ears? Just like the hearings, fox told them not to watch and they obeyed. And it is not certain that the trial will even be televised.
True. We will just have to wait and see.
Even IF it is televised, Goebbels Nooz (and all of the other FASCIST 'outlets') will tell all of their obedient brownshirts to not watch that as well. :(
Exactly. And they will obey.
I agree. I think Jack Smith (& perhaps some others) knows a lot more about what really went on than most people realize. I hope it includes some of the Russian & Saudi connections, although I haven't seen much sign of investigation of international matters.
Except for the (hopefully small percentage, but still way too large for my liking) parts of this country praying for and even DEMANDING outright fascism at this point.
It is sickening that these NAZI scum try to claim that they are 'Constitutionalists'. :(
only ones that will be "shocked" are his cult-If they believe the established facts!
I have personal experience with this with my long lost brother who was as right wing as you could get. NO form of facts could ever dissuade him from his beliefs. I suspect that the majority of the MAGA true believers are similar. They have to stumble on the truth themselves.
The MAGA Republicans I know don’t seem to care about truth. They think it is whatever they say. They have these emotional opinions they believe are true. They refuse to listen to anyone who disagrees. You just have to stand there until they finish. They don’t seem rational.
That is the biggest 'IF' in the universe right at the moment. :(
Yes, it could still very easily happen.
David, that is still only 1/3. a candidate needs 1/2 +1.
There are a few braggards out here, daydreaming of doing us harm. That doesn't mean they will. I'm awaiting the Iowa Caucus and other primaries. MAGA Republicans want to dominate, but they are not the only ones; Before too long, some folks in the Party will point out that there is likely to be a blue tsunami that will make their party obsolete:
"Everything Trump touches dies".
Have you noticed,it all backfires on him.(Stinken maniac criminal)
Jerry M ; What a 'Donnie downer' you are!
He is intimidating Pence, and anyone he feels is or could be standing in his way. The spread of intimidation is something that needs to be more publicly discussed.
Listening to Pence, I wonder if he is running to protect himself. He had the audacity to do his constitutional duty, but no one in his party really supports him (except maybe Dan Quayle). I wonder what protections candidates get these days.
I think he figures anything can happen in the nomination process given the incertainties that exist, and he might be a reasonable alternative for many in the GOP, and the big money. He was VP after all.
Some donor greedheads may disagree ; "He : (Pence), is "too honest".
Progwoman : I think Pence is like a walking oxymoron.
The Beatles identified Pence: Nowhere Man.
I agree. He looks like a robot.
Or just a plain old garden variety morAn. ;)
Steveandjanereid; "just don't put a target on your back;" (that's the fear they want to impose on everyone.)
From an historical perspective, it worked in Nazi Germany, so who is to say it wouldn’t work here for some period of time? Fear and intimidation IS the intent. You have to try and force your opposition into passivity. In the end, it cannot stand because the nation becomes so corrupt that it cannot function. See the Soviet Union as an example and why the state eventually failed.
Hard to intimidate a jellyfish.
I disagree 100% with Pence’s political views but I am forever grateful he didn’t cave in to Trumps badgering. He seems to be the only Republican with a backbone.
Please don't forget Liz Cheney. She has been remarkable. I would never vote on topics as she does but boy, do I admire her bedrock understanding of a democracy.
Yes, I agree with you on Liz Cheney and should have also mentioned Adam Kinzinger (R-IL).
I agree
Pence was just afraid of going to jail. He knew trump was setting him up to be the fall guy for 1/6.
Fair analysis. Trump goes on and on about “loyalty” but is the least loyal person in any affiliation.
I'm grateful, too, Mark, but remember that it came out in J6 Committee testimony that Pence consulted with a whole roster of attorneys, all of whom told him he had no standing to question the election results or choose alternate slates of electors. It wasn't until it was made clear to him that he had no legal option other than to merely preside over the vote counting that he stood up to TFG. In other words, he tried like hell to find a justification to do TFG's bidding, but ultimately was afraid of the legal consequences. His last resort was to follow the law. That doesn’t make him courageous, merely law-abiding when he had to be. As opposed to all the enabling he did for four years.
Judge Michael Luttig, a conservative judge advised Pence when he called for support. He told him he did not have constitutional authority to do what he was being pressured to do.
Yup!
Pense’s responsibility here is to redirect his Christian fold into understanding that Trump and his minions are indeed false idols. And remind them of the teachings of Christ, which are 180 degrees from Trump’s deeds here on earth.
Co depended for so many years … not a Saint, but FINALLY stood up to him. But he shaky.
Either that , or they were playing "good cop vs bad cop" there is something too weird about that whole "hang Mike Pence!" thing. Unreal.
Bunkerboy did say'he deserved it'and I could definitely see that if he didn't get his way.
Yes, we do have t.o appreciate him for that.
Hear what the Federalist Society is saying relevant to his attempt to hide behind his political campaign: https://youtu.be/V5yptTPa7sg
If this is correct, a conviction isn't mandatory. If so, why aren't lawsuits of some kind flying?
Article 3, 14th Ammendment: "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."
Thanks for that:
">or hold any office, civil or military<"
The president is both.
That phrase is easy to glaze over, a bit like "a >well-regulated militia<" in the 2nd Amendment.
Agreed. Unfortunately, Smith didn’t bring insurrection charges. Legally, this this article then apply in this instance given the charges. Unfortunately I think it’s like a dotted line than a direct link.
Their conclusion is exactly mine. It's self-acting. Participants in the insurrection/coup attempt automatically are disqualified from running again. This applies not only to Trump, but also members of Congress & other government officeholders involved in it. In other words, people like Cruz, Tuberville, Gosar, Biggs, Gaetz, Greene, Boebert, etc. should've already been expelled before last election. Both Houses should be majority Democratic. We should already have lots of progressive legislation passed like the Build Back Better bill, elimination or restriction (to talking only) of the filibuster, the voting rights bill, reinstatement/codification of Roe vs. Wade, vision & dental coverage included in Medicare, student debt forgiveness, wealth taxes, debt ceiling rise, & this country would be far better off now.
I am very disappointed that Democrats, save a few, don't fight harder for us, & utilize tools they have available to pass great policies for the people & environment.
Yes, it IS shocking that THEY of all PACs, the promoters and DEMANDERS of extremist, hard core RIGHTwingnut judges, and executive power consolidation (and therefore fascism as well;)), came out with that joint statement. :)
Like Machiavelli says in "The Prince:" Above all, the tyrant must >appear< righteous! They wouldn't want to look bad, now, would they ‽
Something else that's silently conspicuous - and confounding. What ever happened to the full Mueller Report? Has anyone bothered to subpoena an unredacted version? If so, when? Maybe I just missed or forgot about it and it's out there. But if it is, I wonder why nobody's making a bigger deal out of that - particularly with regard a 14th Amendment lawsuit?
I remember Mueller saying it >doesn't< exonerate ol' Tweety.
Since you asked: Indeed, it does not exonerate Trump. Far from it.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5955118-The-Mueller-Report
It is obvious the Robert Mueller met a lot of 'witnesses' who refused to talk or lied to him. Also, he never "followed the money". That is why it landed with a thud, not to mention the sabotage by Bill Barr, who ought to be dis-Barred.
I do believe it should be re-visited, and those who lied or would not speak to him should be questioned anew.
Can the mueller report be resurrected or even should it be. So much money spent here and there.
DZK ; Is it that we are all distracted enough?
Well, there's supporting expert analysis you can reference! Well done.
Only because Pence is such a spineless worm. . .
When you see that Jack Teixeira, the Army kid accused of sharing classified documents with his gaming buddies, is in pre-trial detention as a national security threat, you see how skewed the system is toward the rich. No way this kid is more of a threat than tfg.
Daniel Kunsman : Good observation, and true!
Like I keep on saying, anybody else who had done a fraction of what Trump did would've been locked up long ago as a clear & present danger to national security.
Up to this point,but I believe 'OZ' will have spoken when these cases are completed,the Goon is just about scheduled to see another side of life.
Yes, but sadly, in our system (as has been pointed out by numerous 'pundits') all it takes is just ONE of the Goon's brownshirt goons on the jury to throw the whole case.
It does not matter how 'open and shut, black and white, plain as day' definitive and COMPELLING the evidence and PROOF is, their singular devotion and loyalty to their putrid orange fuehrer will get him off. :( :( :(
The whole thing does depend on just how thoroughly can Smith (and all of the other prosecutors) and their team(s), 'weed out' all of those devout MAGA worshipers/potential exonerators, and will they be allowed to keep them off said juries??
If you or I did what he did we would be charged with treason and be dying in prison for a thousand years. How has this piece of human garbage escaped justice for so long? Let me guess.......money perhaps. Justice is for sale in the USA.
It used to be the rich got off because they had good lawyers. Now the rich get off because they aren’t even charged. So good to see that after the very long wait we are seeing many indictments of this multi-criminal.
It does seem that way
i suspect they didn’t go for treason because it’s very difficult to prove .
So many of tRump's January 6 foot soldiers have found themselves in jail awaiting trial or sentenced to jail for answering tRump's call to come to D.C The regular people have met tougher consequences than the orange menace.
Rolf Taylor ; So far....
The crowds at the early court dates were slim to none. In NYC, the spectators shouted "New York Hates You! "New York Hates You"! as his motorcade went by.
They are so acquiescently brainwashed by said fascist 'outlets' that they are enthusiastically throwing themselves 'under the buses' even BEFORE their putrid orange fuehrer asks them to do that for him out of his one way demand for loyalty.
Fox is not a news station. They admitted it in court. Fox ENTERTAINMENT!
Or more succinctly, just GOEBBELS Propaganda Network. ;)
Hi, Janet! I have recently seen an uptick of right-wingers blaming Trump for not "draining the swamp" when he was in power, so there may be some erosion in support. Of course, they're probably DeSantis supporters & would vote for Trump over Biden.
Bunkerboy would have been PUBLICLY EXECUTED if this were the 1700s on January 7th! THEY weren't under the obese boot of loser billionaires back then, even though racism still ran just as strongly.
Amen!
EXACTLY, Jaime!
Excellent article, clear & succinct! Thank-you, Janet!
Yes, I think I'm okay, but in the beginning of a heat wave, maybe a heat dome, here in Oregon, & it's already hot early in the morning. How are you doing there in Colorado?
Janet R (CO ; But could there be a 2/3 vote in the Congress?
For the HOME TEAM!
Jane. Trump should have been jailed already for "I will come after you".
The worst conduct occurred in New York, where he is under NY state law. NY has contempt statutes. Trump and his sons attacked the judge, his family, Bragg and others including Jack Smith. IMHO he continues to violate the terms of his bail and the judge's several charged warnings. He remains under the jurisdiction of that NY court. But the NY court has not sanctioned him.
He was also warned by the magistrate in Miami. IMHO he has violated that warning, but the prosecution has not asked for sanctions.
In the DC case, so far, Jack Smith has not asked the court to take judicial notice of the conduct in the prior proceedings and has not asked for sanctions, despite the magistrate's warning, to the "I'll come after you...."
Bankman-Fried was living in the Bahamas. Apparently the judge gave him an opportunity to be heard before revoking bail.
I previously wrote about the right to "purge," https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-757-tests-distinguishing-between-civil-and-criminal-contempt-purging
Jack Smith can ask the court to take judicial notice of the other proceedings where Trump has been warned. If I were the judge, I'd order the parties to brief the allegation that by asserting if "I'll come after you..." constitutes a violation of the magistrate's bail order.
The judge has indicated that if there are violations, she could accelerate the trial date. When a violator has the ability to pay, monetary fines are usually the most efficient way to gain compliance. Jack Smith can ask the court to take judicial notice that Trump files financial statements regularly and alleges he is a billionaire. The judge has to take evidence, make findings of fact that sanctions lie. If Trump had to pay, say, $10,000,000 for every occurrence to get him to stop defaming his adversaries and threatening witnesses, IMHO an attitude adjustment would happen.
In the alternative, Trump can purge.
Admit he committed the threats and apologize.
I like the idea of a huge fine. It should be coupled with confiscation of physical property, perhaps Mar-a-Lago. Texas has confiscated people's cars and personal belongings for nonsensical or nonexistent traffic offenses in smaller towns, so this works for me.
Once he has a judgment, the government can tie up all his properties.
Lis pendenshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis_pendens
And will that ever actually happen? A judgment, that is.
A fine can be reduced to a judgment.
Not sure of your meaning.
jail is the only thing the rich fear -- fines mean nothing to them.
In the banking crisis of 2008, seemingly big penalties were levied against the defendant CEOs but paid by the shareholders. The fat cats that called the shots and brought the country to ruin got off. I believe they were civil cases. If so that was a huge "mistake".
I worked over 20 years at EPA civil enforcement - when a company pollutes it does so knowingly and intentionally. Thats criminal. But its rare that a case is deemed criminal. Thats a political break and its hidden from the public.
Fines or penalities might seem big but in fact the DOJ and EPA managers on the civil cases I worked on all knew that the penalty amount was a slap on the wrist, ie always far too small an amount to deter repeat violations, and too small to remove the economic benefit from the noncompliance with pollution laws as required by the Clean Air Act.
The penalty is then simply paid by the company not those responsible, the plant managers and the corporate officers in charge, who are never charged with criminal negligence , and then its all quietly deducted as a business expense, including the lawyers defense fees [which are huge] and the public never hears about it.
The prosecutors in these criminal cases are worse, they are political appointees and in cahoots with the bad guys.
Not always true. Plus, depending on the statute, I could debar or put companies out of business when warranted.
I once debarred a company from doing business with the government for violating the Service Contract Act for stuff like failing to keep records, underpaying employees. Small case. Involved stuff like cutting grass on government properties, maybe some rural postal deliveries.
Turned out same company had $millions in DOD contracts in Afghanistan and Iraq and by debarring them they lost millions.
It doesn't matter how much money he has to pay. His mega rich billionaires and his supporters are happy to pay his bills. Especially the billionaires and the corporations that got a huge tax break and pay very little taxes and some don't pay any taxes at all.
I heard on the news that his son-in-law received 2 billion dollars. Do you think trump is going to let his son-in-law keep that money. When he was behind the scene to accomplish that.
I am waiting to hear what that 2 billion dollars was for. All I heard was for an investment,what does that mean.Folks don't toss that kind of money around.
Are you referring to the $2 billion that the Saudi public investment fund invested in Jared’s new private equity fund within 6 months of leaving office?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/10/us/jared-kushner-saudi-investment-fund.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Trump apologize for anything he has done? It takes courage to admit you did something wrong and own up to it. Trump doesn't have it.
Plus, he has learned from Roy Cohn to never apologize or admit to a mistake, only attack. That has served him well, so far.
And led to despicable behavior.
And in the end,...
To any reasonable degree of probability.
But Trump is first and foremost, a material man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUnd29ku_Ek
Let us remember he does everything with Other Peoples Money. Because he is so smart.
Maybe some day other people will stop sending it. He’s already talking about “volunteer lawyers”. It seems a lot of trumps past lawyers were volunteers, whether they knew they were going to be unpaid or not.
I'm looking forward to enjoying Jack Smith charging w/ wire fraud for him using grass roots donations for ......
I hope so.
He decided not to use the insurrection statutes, seditious conspiracy which I feel are most appropriate .,,,so far. I also think he can prosecute the Saudi connection under FARA.
I would have charged the low hanging fruit first. But Garland wasted over a year.....
IMHO the cooperating witnesses will disclose other crimes
Looking forward to Georgia and a possible RICO action.
Georgia state law:
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-16/chapter-10/article-5/section-16-10-97/
So are you saying that he might apologize to protect his finances? I get it. But to me that's not a "real" apology.
Just goes to the contempt and not to the big lie.
It seems like he should have apologized long before this.
If it saves him money, that is what counts to him.
He would purge to avoid having to lose properties to pay fines, I would bet.
He's a stinken,lily livered coward.Four walls would suit him just fine.I wonder how he'd get along in the exercise yard.
He'd shun the exercise yard. Stand or sit in a corner if forced to go out there.
Bingo. I rest my case presented initially. There are never any consequences for his actions.
I would love to see the threats addressed by the court. I wonder if the courts are being so cautious because the only true thing I think trump has ever uttered was that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his fans would still love him. Is the danger this man represents from half the witless, gullible, reality tv believing population the reason they do not? New York and DC are not venues packed with rabid trumpers, but they know how to get there.
I’d be interested in why you think it has not happened. Is it in law, or in concern for civil unrest? How does a judge weigh this?
No one would let Sam get away with shooting someone.
Presumably a prosecutor could brief the issues and start the ball rolling. Especially in a high profile, political case, it seems to me that the prosecutor has a duty to brief the issues and ask the judge to purge as the facts clearly warrant,
I laid out the procedure above.
"Admit he committed the threats and apologize."
Even if Trump apologizes for his traitorous actions, it would be with his middle fingers raised behind his back. In his own words, "Lock 'im up!"
Because:
Evil never apologizes for anything; it just is.
The object is to get him to stop.
To put him in jail makes him a martyr.
Hate to sound like a coward, but the so-called grass-roots followers of Trump are in my opinion just a front for the big money that's behind them--money that could be fast drying up. However, these followers make a lot of noise, are rabid and are the main stay of the Repubs. The hysteria that abounds in their ranks is what has caused the existing division in the country with the help of the right-wing media and bring with them the promise of escalating these divisions to a point that we could be faced with not seeing a feasible end without further violence.
Putting the traitor in jail at this point will invite his followers to make a stand for their savior. IMO, for the most point (with reservation) the prosecution is being so laborious and tedious in their actions to avoid this at all cost. It can't just seem like overwhelming proof to the Court or the sane; it must also attempt to be overwhelming proof of his guilt on all counts to these nut jobs, and also show that the prosecution is totally working within the bounds of the law, no matter what he spouts off in retaliation. Preventing further violence may not be possible, but maintaining correctness is a must if we want to win the next presidential election.
On second thought, Daniel, you are right that prison would bestow instant martyrdom. Moreover he might find a number of supportive Trumpheads there who would help incite yet another uprising, unless he were placed in maximum solitary with no means of communication. Maybe even the news cycle would find something else to roar about.
WAPO today. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/07/fake-electors-trump-indictment/?fbclid=IwAR1sBCU3_r4rFrMkhw0Iqq7fW_pfWLbmnhYsjrxEWpzgde3Q0OTyt7gdy3w
Yes and its because he is above the law. Like no other individual before him he knows how to destroy law with his power. He is not afraid to take the risks to exercise his special talent of chaos and destruction. He has found the flaws in our overrated checks and balances system and is making jackasses out of everyone who plays by the rules.
That is what dictators do. Trump wants so much to be a dictator. If he gets in, that is what we will get. And he has a great chance of getting in.
We voters must stop him with our votes.
Of course but that is easier said than done. ALL of his voters vote and since the last election, republicans have put into place new laws making it easier for them to cheat and harder for dems to vote. And dems don’t vote in near the numbers republicans do. Of course they should but the fact of the matter is, they don’t.
The problem is the electoral college. Our votes are distorted. In reality he wasn’t elected the first time. And he planned to use that same distortion as a means to steal the election the second time. To those that consider the EC to be essential for states rates I say “you can keep your two Senators - that’s plenty of distortion of power”.
While we still can.
BIG TIME!!!
Our only hope and cold comfort as well.
Wait... that’s what everyone said about Trump the first time! With that said, after all the current drama plays out, I don’t believe either Trump nor Biden are going to be the final nominees for 2024. And that would not be such a bad thing.
Well, if not biden then who? RFK Jr or Cornell west? Which of these three could beat trump? Unfortunately if either of those last two run as third party candidates, trump will win for sure. Even if either of the two happen to gain the dem nomination, of the three, Biden is still our best shot. Dems need to fall in line like the republicans do. The republicans have had much success in gaining power with that strategy. Dems need to forget about that falling in love with a candidate. A good way to lose, as history has proven.
It’s sad to say but you are absolutely correct. He has no concern whatsoever about what his actions will do to our country and his followers refuse to see the destruction he has caused.
I agree. I would very much like to understand what acts are necessary for the judge to shut him down? How many times does he get a by before the judge decides it’s too much? Seems like in Bankman-Fried’s case, there were multiple violations before he finally went to jail.
The political elites close ranks and do not advocate jail for class reasons. Class is the simplest way to state it. Class includes the richly deserving corrupt Boards of Directors, the corrupted politically appointed prosecutors and class blinkered judges, and the venal lawyers as well as the gamers in the WH and Congress. Did any of the prosecutors in the 2008 crisis cases or now in the Trump cases demand jail?
Trumps several trials seem to be taking too long, or are very slow in coming. Is this the norm or if not the norm, what then is the reason for the apparent delays?
First Garland took so long to begin investigation until the mountain of evidence of wrongdoing was too massive to continue to ignore. Jack was hired almost 2 years after the fact, but he is doing about as much as fast as 1 man can do. But the amount & severity of crime is huge & much of it is intricate, with plenty of evidence to sift through & make sense of, & witnesses to examine. Then there are legal procedures to follow, with Trump's side putting up as much obstacles & delay tactics as they can. But it's also a race against time, with the 2024 election always in mind.
He has gotten EVERY SINGLE BENEFIT OF A DOUBT...
There IS a "breaking point" to all this bending, RIGHT!?!
Given trumps history, I would think he’s already used up his benefits of a doubt before he got indicted
so hope you are correct, my friend
I'm sympathetic and personally agree. But a number of TV legal pundits have suggested that a federal judge would be reluctant sent Trump to jail. Bill Barr has also stated that he doesn't think the courts or DOJ would, as a political matter, be willing to send a former President to prison. They may be right. Judge Chutkan's warning that threats or interference with witnesses would be reason for an earlier trial may be a stronger deterrent.
Yes.
Could not agree more, Jane.
It just seems that way,Judge Chutkin scolded him very firmly w/ her index finger,she means business.
Samuel Bankman-Fried's incarceration is good news.
I would like to think that Trump will stop his belligerence, but I honestly believe he's going to deliberately test the Judge in D.C., because he wants the trial date delayed, at any cost, including his own incarceration; this would certainly be an enormous boost to his campaign and fundraising.
I was also pleasantly surprised that the SCOTUS blocked the Purdue Pharmaceutical's settlement, and will take up the case in December.
I thought that the original verdict (giving the Sacklers lifetime immunity from prosecution, in exchange for a 6 billion dollar settlement) was a gross miscarriage of justice, since the Sackler family ,was, in reality, an American drug cartel.
They lock up a guy who sells an ounce of crack and yet Sacklers sell dope to millions and they get off the hook. Can we wring out any justice in this system? Go to black neighborhood and occupation troops are there. The rich live in gated communities and the po-lice are their friends.
Lest we forget, the California Legislature passed Assembly Bill 487, signed into law on October 4, 2001, which required most California-licensed physicians to take, as a one-time requirement, 12 units of continuing medical education (CME) on pain management. At the course I took, the lecturers promoted eliminating pain with narcotics. Overprescribing narcotics has led to our fentanyl crisis. Now physicians are more careful about prescribing narcotics.
Trump fits the diagnosis of Psychopath perfectly. He cares for no one but himself and is willing to do anything to get what he wants. If he were poor or black he would be serving life in some hell hole prison.
" I honestly believe he's going to deliberately test the Judge in D.C., because he wants the trial date delayed, at any cost …"
Judge Tanya Chutkan is ahead of you—and the criminal defendant, Deborah Carroll. If he violates her orders she threatened to move forward the start of his trial. So far, not a peep from him since … stay tuned.
I think you are a psychopath jerk like Trump
Perfect response, although he's just pulling our legs... he's not serious.
Try to resist responding, Barbara. Attention is their goal.
Thanks for your humorous interludes! It helps to laugh in the midst of all these serious, & sometimes rather unpleasant, discussions.
Ok,so we don't need him to play the martyr card,but it sure would be enjoyable to see him cuffed and stuffed,4 walls might cool his jets a tad.
And what do we say about a government that allows such abuses to go on for so very long ? you know a book could be written on the federal governments war against its citizens over the last 50 years. I don’t think insurrection is the answer, though a major overhaul, a major reset is needed. Like that eponymous group says we need a new Congress.
It often takes a disaster to get major changes in the USA. The New Deal came out of the Great Depression. No Great Depression, no FDR and no New Deal.
there will be a March to end fossil fuels 17 Sep in NYC. A goal is to get Biden to declare a climate emergency and unlock more power. https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/energy-justice/pdfs/Climate-Emergency-Powers-Report.pdf
It would be nice to get that Green Deal or BBB passed before, not after, the upcoming climate/environmental catastrophe.
There also should be a national anti gauging law when pandemics or national emergencies are over. There are no gauging laws for hurricanes why not for post pandemic and national emergencies. We are being gouged on everything because companies during the pandemic found out citizens would pay more for stuff. So why lower their prices? That is why inflation is so bad. Greedy corporations.
Considering her performance so far (insurrectionist trials before Man From Queens duties), JudgeTanya Chutkan ranks right up there with Jack Smith. They are real throwbacks to a time when excellence wasn't a surprise. I can't wait till they and mfQ are in the same room.
Me too
I'm just sorry that this discredited politician eats up the news cycle thus blocking news (and pleas for help) from the latest environmental tragedy in Maui. Lock him up already!
You are so kind calling him a discredited politician...he's an opportunist (he has nothing to do with the politics) who transferred his "con" skills from the other "jobs" he previously had :-)))
@MooGoo. Hah! My weak attempt at insult was intended to show how pathetic and uninteresting that grifter actually is. He is a criminal as our system of laws will soon confirm.
His punishment will be hundreds of millions in donations and a get out of jail card. When will idealists realize Trump has beaten the system. When do the pundits wake up and stop telling this time he is gone to far and he is going to pay.
@ Harry. Eyeeee knowwww! When is enough already!?!?
Do you think the Orangeman will actually go to prison?
No. The trial will be delayed until after the election and he will be elected the final destroyer of our democracy. I am terrified for our futures in this country under this new age Hitler.
I agree
Democrats are weak on this. He should have been charged two years ago. Why did they wait?
He should've been jailed as a public & national security threat as anyone else would've been who had planned, organized & incited an insurrection, coup attempt & assassination or kidnapping attempts on high government officials; stolen government documents to use for blackmail or to give or sell government secrets to international adversaries; or sent threats to legal, judicial & government authorities & potential witnesses.
I don't think it's quite time yet to be hyperventilating, Kelly. Registered Republicans are in the minority to start with, and not all of them support TFG. Independents tend to skew Dem. In 2020, there was a higher-than-average Dem turnout. All of which makes it less likely that TFG will get even as many votes in 2024 as he got in 2020.
Assuming he's the nominee. He could suck down one too many cheeseburgers between now and then. Or the Rethugs could become disenchanted if he's in the slam by this time next year (not likely, but....). There are so many variables, it's WAY too early to be doom-saying. Please, for your own sake, do yourself a favor and chill for awhile.
On the other hand, Republicans have done everything they can to tarnish Biden's reputation through Hunter's laptop & various specious accusations, putting the same kind of cloud of suspicion on Biden that was the key to Hillary's loss. They've denigrated his actually quite remarkable economic record enough that most people have a negative view of it. And they will do everything possible to cheat the system (in far more ways than is commonly perceived) in order to "win" the election. We need to be far more vigilant than we have been in past elections.
Any of the following not so improbable events could sabotage Biden's chances: serious health issues, a sharp economic downturn, the scandal involving Hunter festers with more damaging information & perhaps more solid evidence of serious wrongdoing; Ukraine is defeated, the war spreads, we have a nuclear conflagration, China invades Taiwan, or any of a number of other possible international crises in this increasingly unstable world (which Trump will try to take advantage of by proclaiming he, & only he, can solve these crises); or some devastating environmental, climate or food/water crisis sets the world spiraling into uncontrollable devastation, disease & famine.
Thanks for your concern. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.
Poor Mama Cass choked on a sandwich.
@John. Ya know, there is actually an argument (or a few) that he should not actually go to prison. First, I repeated an argument here that it would be best if he makes a bargain plea. He won't go to prison if he agrees never to run for or hold political office. Probably some fines, some probation, some house arrest, etc. That scenario cramps his style many ways fore example by reducing his ability to do political fund raising, reduces his ability to impact international leaders, reduces the chances of domestic violence related to him, takes away a main rationale that right wing politicians and "pundits" now have to keep this jerk and his "views" at the forefront of the news, undermines the recruiting drives for groups like the Proud Boys and others, and serves as a disincentive for other wanna be autocrats that you can't really get away with that in this country. So a lot of good could be done if the tangerine twat waddle pussy grabbing grifter is plea bargained out of prison.
You make a very sound, logical argument, Benjamin. But I still want to see the orange fungus behind bars. ; )
Absolutely not! The crimes Trump has committed against America & Americans are far too egregious not to require prolonged incarceration. He must be held fully accountable. Our recurring problems with corrupt & criminal Republican Presidents stem from not punishing the wrongdoing of their Republican predecessors.
He's a disgusting criminal maniac!
could agree more but the RICH are always allowed to get away with what mere mortals will be held to account. THIS APPLIES to big corporations too who pay too little tax by salting away profits through clever accounting to TAX FREE OR LOW TAX HAVENS!
If nothing changes the system will eventually collapse with a people led revolution!!!!
Yes, and then there is the ability of corporations to purchase their own stocks in order to artificially prop up their value. Many American companies used Covid pandemic funds from American taxpayers to do this very thing!
Ethical corruption is a very slippery slope...
Stock buybacks are stock market manipulation. Done to boost the stock price and earnings per share to enable management to collect their bonuses. Illegal prior to 1982. You are taking a safe shareholder asset (cash) and using it to purchase a risky asset (the company stock) without the shareholders having any say in the matter. IMHO, at the very least, all stock buybacks should be approved by the company's shareholders by proxy beforehand. Or the SEC could make a rule that buybacks are only allowed where it can be clearly demonstrated that the company's stock is undervalued in the market (this will be tough to do).
This is our system where money has a megaphone. Our discontent runs deep but what to do? I leave it to the young to do it since I am almost long gone.
Please stay!
Yes. Another soul resisting by speaking out is of great value. It also helps you feel better yourself that you are still contributing to your community by speaking out against wrongdoing. It helps promote a better future for *the young people*.
Have a look at what DavidHogg is doing with respect to getting younger people into state legislatures. He and his young colleagues are inspirational, and moral support always helps.
👊😃
Nicely expressed! Thank You!
NatureBear.....I am all mouth these days. I rave at the system from my computer. Too old and broken down to do the deeds that must be done. If I went to a demonstration I would probably fall on my face.
Thank You for all of your current valiant efforts and for all that you have contributed previously, Sir!
Take care and don't give up the fight!
I am going to rock down to Electric Avenue and take it higher.
That is a risk for elderly people, sometimes assisted by a push from a police officer.
And the Supreme Court made that megaphone much bigger with citizens United. If you read up on corporate rights as individuals it is a house of cards. The whole thing is built in a supposed Supreme Court precedent that never existed (some scribe made it up in the case summary). But of course the Supreme Court is another thread
obviously every generation fails to fix the mess dumped in their lap by the previous generation. then the old farts before they depart excuse themselves by saying that they dont know what to do about it.
The magic of jail is its silencing effect. The world needs relief from his fire hose of malignant vitriol. Global catastrophes require our urgent collective attention.
Rome is burning while we all listen to the con man fiddle.
I don't listen to him at all anymore! I haven't for about a full year now. Yes, I notice the headlines but I change the tv channels and I strictly avoid YouTube videos pertaining to him. I don't read articles about him either.
Trump related headlines are all that I can tolerate unless I am in the mood for either venting rage or chucking my breakfast.
And we also need to hear of the progress that Biden is achieving - he is being drowned out by the news focus on someone who should have been prosecuted long ago.
If only there were evidence hahahaha. In the meanwhile there plenty of evidence his policies are reversing the terrible trends that started in the 1980s. Long overdue. Long live Bidenomics!
Hahaha! Actually, I wish he would at least do an LBJ & decline to run for re-election, so that some candidates with great ideas on how to solve our problems, including a much stronger policy on dealing with climate chaos & environmental destruction that they can get all Democrats & the vast majority of Americans behind, will run.
Nonsense! Curtail your drinking
#FireHoseOfMalignantVitriol 🏆
Totally agree.
silencing? the word "Jail "is the only thing a bad guy hears.
Yay, verily.
Whether Trump has made statements that can be considered direct intimidation of witnesses, versus generalized political statements, I couldn’t say. But a serious warning shot could be delivered to him by revoking his passport. With his indictments piling up, and given his financial and other resources, he is a flight risk. Even if he would not flee, it would have an important psychological impact on him to realize that he CANNOT flee.
He continually attacks the prosecutors, their families, and lately Pence,
Yes, and even if his language is not a literal threat towards individual witnesses, in Trump’s case he knows that his language riles up some of his MAGA base to the point of violence, and that risks would be intimidating. So it does seem that a judge would have the basis for finding him in violation of the terms of his release.
Berry / Daniel—The criminal defendant's unusual restraint since Judge Chutkan ruled Friday suggests his legal team thinks his mob-veiled language could be construed as menacing. Her brilliantly logical threat to start the trial early if rhe defendant violates her orders was more effective than any mundane financial or incarceration threat could have been. Can't wait till he's in the same room with her and Jack Smith.
lock him up!
We should compare & contrast John Walker Lindh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh)? (Who could forget the "rule of law" in all its... international... glory?)
How about Reality Winner, who got 5 years for stealing 1 document?
Or George Floyd.
I like the cut of your jib Yespat.
Yes. Very good movie "Reality"
Our economic system is based on managers deciding on who has a livelihood and who doesn't. That is not a rational, successful or ethical way to run a national economy. People need guaranteed opportunity and the power of these robber barons over the lives of the workforce must be weakened.
No, we need to organize and strike globally. We need to stop competing wth each other and start cooperating with each. The writers went on strike, the actors joined them. Solidarity will win the day. We need more mutual aid communities before we strike. So let's start forming more of them. They work brilliantly.
If every community began to run the old Mom and Pop grocery stores, the independently run gas stations, clothing stores and pharmacies and quit buying from corporate America, things might actually start working again. These big corporations would not be able to produce the money to their greedy shareholders and would feel the pinch. We need more Americans to shop their local stores.
Yes, and stop buying Chinese manufactured products from Walmart for starters?
Bring back North American manufacturing!
Stop buying Amazon would be a great place to start. My friends do not understand how “voting with you dollars” works. It isn’t just what you do or don’t buy, it’s also who you buy it from.
Well, you’re gonna have to get rid of John Roberts on the court
Yes indeed...........do it.
It is disturbing that a wealthy person being in jail shocks; SBF belongs in jail, as does Trump, and it is a sad commentary on the fairness of our judicial system that we expect them to get away with it.
Yes!!! Accountability--once merely a wished-for outcome for these rich criminals, might become a reality! Bring it on! Make accountability "fashionable"...or at least a probable after-conviction outcome. Accountability and Common Good go together well!
Considering that Trump’s main defense is delay, I expect, in the foreseeable future, that Trump’s D.C. legal team will appeal a pre-trial ruling to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals that ultimately will work its way to the Supreme Court. In the absence of rigorous court reform, I don’t believe the rule of law is adequately protected.
As long as you have a hostile to democracy supreme court, the rule of law is not protected. This is where we’re at.
@steveandjanereed, Though I would say, “hostile-to-democracy Supreme Court” MAJORITY, your comment precisely mirrors my thoughts. Thank you for writing.
This is a criminal case. They can try, but no appeals court will stay the proceeding in the event of an interlocutory appeal. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/interlocutory_appeal#:~:text=The%20term%20%E2%80%9Cinterlocutory%E2%80%9D%20is%20used,the%20rules%20for%20such%20appeals.
Daniel, To clarify my point, I expect, with 11+ million pages of discovery to review, that D.C. Defense Counsel, once a trial date is set, will appeal for more time. Regardless of how the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals rules, I expect the Defense to appeal to the Supreme Court, at which point I don’t believe anyone can predict the outcome.
I can. No stay. .
Daniel, Because I’m not an attorney, I suppose, along with much of the population, while I believe the prosecution has met its burden of proof, I will remain hopeful but also concerned about pre-trial machinations. Still, as an attorney, your words are assuring.
Trump will never follow the rules. He stupid and evil and has scary followers. His lawyers are repulsive.
Just a dumb bully, in spite of being sometimes shrewd.
Jerry M : Funny ; I don't think of Biden as a bully. Maybe he will earn the title when the super wealthy corps have to start paying workers more as CEOs get higher pay. THEN they will whine and call him a terrible bully maybe. The fact that this seems so far fetched underscores the laughable idea that Biden is a dumb bully!
Samuel, George, and Donnie are rotten fish left in the fridge and subsequently forgotten. Santos couldn't find his way home without a GPS, and Bankman is almost as corrupt as Trump. I can't stop from picturing the three sitting on some random fire place mantel in the positions prosperity has assigned them. Except, these three monkeys aren't wise.
One can only hope that the judge's decision will not be overruled by another court and that the same provisions apply to TFG.
Yes, in this case the Times complaint that freedom of the press is overridden seems misguided. The man is under arrest for serious felonies, and intimidating his former girlfriend and employee hardly sounds like something they should abet.
I feel the media is partially to blame with these rich muckity mucks!! They pander to them, give them all the space they want and need because the media is also run by the wealthy. The journalist will say whatever they are told to say so they can keep their jobs!
Who owns the media? Billionaires. And they don’t want to go to jail so their sympathies lie with their fellow billionaire buddies and act accordingly.
Yeah, they closed down HIGHTOWER WHEN THEY REALIZED HE WAS TALKING ABOUT CORRUPT MEDIA, when they realized he was talking about them
Justice is never given to the poor since the rich control even the inner corrido of justice, perhaps in heaven there will be justice.
It is calming to realize that Christ is still King of the Universe and that rich people are answerable to God as much as the poor.
Unless you're a Buddhist or a Muslim...
Sometimes being uncalm is the price of responsibility
Yes but uncalm also results from fear and guilt -I trust God but not former President Trump
reading the OLD testament that is far from clear.
Very cautiously hopeful here. Watching one case at a time, for judges to uphold the rule of law applied equally to all, regardless of status, wealth or presidential aspirations...
The wealthy are only held accountable when they steal from other wealthy people. When they steal from us, not so much. Wage theft is a major and ongoing problem. Corporations only get a slap on the wrist, so to speak.