Friends, Late last night, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen gave a remarkable speech on the Senate floor, condemning the government of Benjamin Netanyahu for deliberately blocking aid to civilians in Gaza. Van Hollen said: “Kids in Gaza are now dying from the deliberate withholding of food. In addition to the horror of that news, one other thing is true: That is a war crime. It is a textbook war crime. And that makes those who orchestrate it war criminals. … Every one of them [officials at humanitarian relief organizations] has stated that their organizations have never experienced a humanitarian disaster as dire and terrible as the world is witnessing in Gaza.”
Tom Friedman is mistaken about the timing. Israel has already transformed itself into as "global pariah".
There is no option but to vote for Biden, but planted leaks aside, anyone who has spent 5 minutes studying Netanyahu could have predicted exactly how he would react.
As with Trump, Netanyahu will destroy Israel to save himself.
The hardest thing about providing wise and effective counsel to an ally is that it must be done quietly and privately. There is no possibility that publicly condemning and threatening Benjamin Netanyahu and his far-right supporters will change their behavior in the slightest.
In fact, it's more likely to embolden him. It would feed directly into his narrative of victimhood: standing up to American pressure, defying all who question Israel's right to defend itself.
President Biden is displaying the fruits of his decades of experience in diplomacy. He balances just enough public reprimand with intense private pressure in order to maximize the possibility of influencing the decisions of another sovereign State's leader.
Secretary Of State Blinken has made multiple trips throughout the Mid-East, working tirelessly to coordinate an international response leading to a cease-fire. It's the easiest thing in the world to shout condemnation from the rooftops, proclaiming one's own moral superiority. But getting down into the trenches to negotiate meaningful solutions is a long, hard slog.
By the way, why do we never hear any of the morally righteous critics call for Hamas to surrender? After coordinating and executing a horrendous assault on civilians, and then suffering a crushing military response, Hamas could bring an immediate end to all the suffering by simply laying down their arms and returning the hostages. That's how wars typically end. The failure of Hamas to accept defeat is what prolongs the conflict.
But unlike Ukraine, Israel's military is not dependent on our assistance. I'm pretty sure that attaching conditions to any future American aid to Israel is part of the diplomatic conversations currently underway. It certainly is being advocated by Senator Bernie Sanders and others.
Ridiculous. Most of Israel's weapons are US supplied. We are complicit in this horrible genocide. We supply 37 percent of the weapons to the world. Our shells in recent "aid" are blowing us Palestinian civilians and children right now. https://geoffreydeihl.substack.com/p/will-the-war-in-israel-take-down
What I said is that, unlike Ukraine, Israel is not dependent on our assistance. While our annual contribution of military aid to Israel is in the $3 - $5 billion range, the cost of the Gaza operation, now 4 months long, is in the $65 - $70 billion range. And I don't hear any begging from Mr. Netanyahu over the delay in Congress of a few billion more or less.
Jerry, Israel is a bit smaller than Vermont with GDP of about $488 billion whereas VT has a GDP of about $40 billion. They both get about the same annual US federal funding of about $3 billion after VT pays federal fees and taxes. However, Israel is getting additional US aid for the current Israeli war such as the $14 billion voted on now in Congress. All federal funding to U.S. states is conditional. Israel has gotten more annual funding than any other foreign nation for many years. What’s wrong with this picture? A small wealthy foreign nation gets more unconditional support than most, maybe all of our individual states?
What's wrong with this picture? I'm not sure I understand the question, David. But I guess for starters, there's nothing remotely comparable about the two examples.
Vermont is a State with a mostly rural population of less than 650,000, ninety percent of whom are of the same ethnic origin. It occupies about one-quarter of 1% of the most powerful country in the world, and borders another enormously large country which is a close and friendly ally. The State has two national guard units, with a total of about 4000 members.
Israel is itself a sovereign nation with a vastly diverse population of more than 9.5 million, over 90 percent of whom live in cities. The country is surrounded by hostile neighbors, several of whom are committed to its total destruction. The Israeli military numbers over 600,000 active and reserve members, with land, sea and air forces boasting an array of tanks, artillery submarines, patrol ships, fighter jets, and attack helicopters -- as well as nuclear weapons.
As our most steadfast ally in the region, Israel's security is vital to our own. The nature and amount of American aid granted to Israel has evolved over many decades and is exceedingly complex. A substantial portion of it is mandated by the 1979 peace treaty with Egypt, brokered by the United States.
To say simply that our support is "unconditional" is not really accurate, as it implies the aid is just handed over in the form of a single financial transaction. That's not how it works.
I kind of get the point you're trying to make, but the premise of your final question is also not really accurate.
This is already a long answer, and there's much more to say on the subject. However, the comments section of Robert Reich's newsletter isn't really the best place for a lengthy conversation. Please feel free to write to me directly here: JerryWeiss@Substack.com
Not by Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, or by Biden himself! The Senate just allocated billions more for Israel. If Johnson can get it thru the House, he'll send it.
THIS is a "mainstream" Palestinian point of view, incredibly enough - their populations have been brainwashed for decades, this kind of stuff was and maybe still is taught to ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS via cartoons and introductory reading lessons.
Teddy Roosevelt had it right: "Speak softly AND carry a big stick." It's long past time Biden got out the big stick because all talking softly is getting him is Netanyahu's middle finger and a good chance of losing the election to Trump, who will make it worse.
1) Stop giving Israel money and weapons; if that doesn't work
2) Sanction Netanyahu, Ben Gvir, Smotrich, and their parties.
How about demanding HAMAS (1) declare a unilateral ceasefire, thus saving tens of thousands of Palestinian lives, (2) release all their kidnap victims and (3) subject themselves to the exact same "war crimes investigations" being arranged for Israel Defense Force military who actually commit war crimes?
Sounds fair enough, or is it supposed to be ONLY Israel's responsibility to take account of the fastest way to save Palestinians from accidental deaths, since obviously Israel will keep acting in legal self-defense, as long as Hamas keeps fighting - they have shot over 15,000 missiles, drones, and mortars at Israel since October 7, with plenty exploding inside Gaza and killing and/or maiming Palestinian civilians.
I'd be totally in favor of it as long as you add in Israel's releasing the thousands of Palestinians (including Palestinian-Israeli citizens) being held--often without charge--in Israeli prisons AND, if the ICJ decides that Israel is illegally occupying Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights, Israel agrees to withdraw and withdraw its settlers from them.
However, if Hamas did 1 & 2, I doubt they'd survive long enough for 3.
^^^^^ At least read this, you seem to have little comprehension of the various contending Palestinian factions, for one thing - with WHOM is Israel going to negotiate? Who is legit? etc. etc.
And your formulation here is puzzling:
"However, if Hamas did 1 & 2, I doubt they'd survive long enough for 3."
And even appears to me at least, to be incoherent - are you REALLY suggested that an internationally designated gang of terrorist thugs who murder their own internal opposition, who have a charter openly calling for genocide, that is, the complete destruction and abolition in any form of the State of Israel "on Arab lands," , which they have never renounced, which routinely has for over a decade used their own civilians as human shields, launching unguided missiles INTO civilian territory FROM civilian territory - the so-called "triple war crime" - is some kind of entity whose preservation concerns you? Why? And even if that's granted - "It is not at all barbaric to be concerned about preserving Hamas and its many laudable works and policies," - do you really expect Israel to negotiate PEACE with them, as if Hamas is going to engage in arm's length bargaining in good faith, and live up to their agreements?
NO ONE is that gullible, so you must be getting at something else, which I confess eludes me, though.
That's also the main point of demanding a unilateral ceasefire from these criminal mass murdering fiends - that they ARE, in fact, fairly and accurately described as (1) Criminals, specifically war criminals, but also thieves on a mass scale who have looted humanitarian aid intended for the human shields, er human sacrifices - the long-suffering "innocent civilians" hypocritically cited by the marchers as a major one of their concerns (hah et hah! encore to that!), (2) Mass murderers - murder, defined as "unjustified killing," so they're that unless you're ready to go all in on lauding the terrorists* and dismissing their 2400 victims who were killed, some at a freakin' music festival, think about the contrasting irony of that; "fiends," well, will "monstrous rapists and murderers on a mass scale" not satisfy the vernacular definition of "fiendish behavior," if not, why not?
* We might also debate the "one man's (person's) terrorist is another man's (person's) freedom fighter" set of multiple incoherent concepts packed into one bogus claim - it reduces to absolute epistemological nihilism if you try to apply it systematically, because every single time someone simply changes their mind about, for example, Mr. X being a "freedom fighter," perhaps because of acquiring more information about X, which was already widely available, but previously unknown to them, X "becomes" ex hypothesi, a terrorist! It's downright occult, and not in any harmless, benign sense of investigating "The Beyond," either!
And the reverse is also true - of course, you can always make the preposterous claim that no possible set of criteria can possibly be assembled to describe either "terrorism" or "fighting for freedom," but working out the consequences of that is also a path to - nihilism. NOTHING, no matter what it is, that anyone or any group can ever do, can ever be "terrorism" or fighting for freedom. How plausible is that - your profile has you as an English prof., you must have encountered this or similar issues in textual hermeneutics already, correct? Well, here it is again!
LOL, what, a mass release of terrorists, not even a case-by-case review with public hearings and the international press watching?
I love it that people are so incredibly gullible, they actually BELIEVE Israel simply arrests the rando GOOD and INNOCENT Palestinian, claps him in prison for nothing at all, and thus the whole system is corrupted by the EVIL Israelis! Brilliant!
Now cite a specific case, and we can get somewhere, is that fair? \
And you MUST not understand how the wars ended - and continued - since GAZA, for example, was exiting by Israel many years ago; while the West Bank and the Golan is disputed territory precisely because there is NO PARTNER ELECTED BY THE PALESTINIANS TO EVEN RECEIVE THE WEST BANK AND GOLAN - where were the magical peace negotiations that happened while the world slept, Maureen?
The ones YOU evidently know about? The ones necessary for recognition under international law, where the Palestinians finally ACCEPT a peace offer?
Do you even know how many they have rejected over the years?
Look, you're online, you have a search browser, you even have the approximate search terms: "Palestinians reject peace settlement with Israel"!
This is simply a very different reality from that which you believe, I think - and since we are likely BOTH solidly on the progressive democratic Left (I have moved right a bit, from my Trotskyist phase, though!) except on this set of extremely complex issues, it's extremely annoying for both of us, I suppose.
We both likely want patriarchal capitalism drastically reformed and then ENDED a.s.a.p., albeit we don't want all the thousands and even millions of small businesses "expropriated by the State for the benefit of the working class" or some similar malarkey - just very drastic reforms, such that it can be transformed into something human and egalitarian, "Economics as if people mattered," to quote E.F. Schumacher - "Buddhist economics," if you will.
But back to the I/P disputes: you search, you read, you return after that and present your results, and I either agree or I don't, same with some mythical "innocent Palestinian being held without charges who did nothing" etc. etc.
Jerry - Like you, I have to believe that intense private pressure is being applied to the situation. Aid has to be allowed in, and massive UN support for the Palestinian families who are now without homes, food, sanctuary. The assault has to stop -in some form - for humanitarian restructuring on the ground.
Jerry Weiss... And capitulating to Israel's control over Palestinians... ? Israel will not stop. Along with laying down arms the fighters would have to lie down on the broken roads for Israeli tanks to roll over them. Netanyahu has been LOUD and CLEAR.
Hamas was founded as a movement to resist the occupation and the raw deals being "offered" the Palestinians time and again. Over time its strongest moral and practical outside support came from more and more radical Islamists. Biased, deaf, and blind US policy didn't bother to honor the UN resolutions that specified the Right of Return or the creation of a state, or to do more than put humanitarian bandaids on the open wound of the Palestinians' situation. The only thing Palestinians have had left -- besides dependence on outside assistance-- has been their suffering at the hands of Israel and Hamas' resistance.
FR, I fully appreciate your passionate response. And I have no argument with the facts as you present them, although many pertinent other facts went un-mentioned. Most of us here are well-aware of the history, and the oft-repeated arguments.
So attempting to expand the breadth of imagined possibilities is a worthwhile endeavor. That's why I've also suggested that Israel foreswear military action in favor of a massive aid and development program. As we know, neither that nor a Hamas surrender are currently under consideration.
The only immutable certainty is that what's been done again and again leads only to more of the same. The far right in Israel, with their claim to all the land from the river to the sea, will never succeed in driving Palestinians out of their homeland any more than Palestinians will succeed in destroying the Jewish State. At some point, there's only mutual destruction or mutual co-existence.
Jerry - Right! - So, what must Hamas do? Given the appalling history of biased decisions against the Palestinians and broken promises to them, what is your realistic conclusion?
I'd suggest that, once the war is over, Israel must do exactly what you say - turn into a generous neighbour. Create a Palestinian state. Then, and only then, will Hamas join the mainstream and accept Israel's existence.
Jerry - My conclusion is the rank oppsite to yours. It is ONLY though public condemnation of Netanyahu that Israel's war on the Gaza Strip will end. Private pressure on him will not do the trick - N. can simply pretend he's not under pressure from Joe Biden, and continue the war. Public pressure from the U.S. would add to the public pressure put on N. from most of the world - but it would be more meaningful because it would lock Biden into a position that says, "If you don't cease and desist, we will cut all military aid!" As things stand at the moment, private pressure does not commit Biden to an ultimatum if N. refuses to cooperates.
Respectfully, Gunnar, we just disagree here. It's my opinion that public ultimatums have the disadvantage of precluding other options if the ultimatum is disregarded. And since conceding to an ultimatum is generally seen as weak, being public makes it more likely to be disregarded.
Last December, the Wall Street Journal published a story implying that Mr. Netanyahu had deferred to President Biden in some way, and the Prime Minister immediately declared: "This is not true. Israel is a sovereign state. Our decisions in the war are based on our operational considerations, and I will not elaborate on that.”
Unlike Ukraine, where our aid is indispensable, Israel is not totally dependent on us. While it would be significant, cutting our military aid would be unlikely to end Israel's Gaza operation. The country is an economic and military powerhouse, ranked among the top 20 in the world. Not to mention that it is one of only nine to have nuclear weapons.
Jerry - Well, if Biden were to say to Netanyahu, "If you don't cease and desist, we will cut all military aid!" - this would excert more pressure on N. because, within 3 weeks, Israel would be forced to call off its genocidal war against the civilians in the Gaza Strip for lack of defensive military hardware - perhaps especially anti-missile missiles. The Israeli government's political credibility rests on its ability to protect its own population. It has failed once - in Oct last year - so, if its retaliatory collective punishment in the Strip were to lead to a significant weakening of its Iron Dome, it would be the second time that N. will have failed to protect his own people, and N. would see his political support evaporate.
Personally, I think it's odd that the group of advisors around Biden haven't realised what they are up against. Millions have marched in support of Palestine - and they count as voters in the next elections everywhere - whilst Ukraine is suffering from chronic shortages of ammunition, drones, and precision missiles. It could be said that Israel's and the U.S.'s war against Palestine is a lost cause in terms of international politics whereas the war against Russia in Ukraine is still seen by the 'international community' as justified.
But it appears that Biden feels locked into his current two wars-by-proxy policy. I wonder why. Maybe the U.S. depends on Israeli intelligence gathering. I don't know.
Or maybe the number '2' has some kind of magic, talismanic meaning to the U.S. government: they seem to want to fight both Russia and China, preferably at the same time. One can only wonder where their strategic studies experts are hiding. Is it really possible that the Biden administration is blind and deaf to private warnings against fighting two enemies at once - without conscription? Have they forgotten Vietnam, and have they already forgotten Afghanistan?
Well Gunnar, I can only repeat my earlier opinion that public ultimatums are self-defeating. As to the details you mention, the total portion of the aid package designated for Iron Dome and Beam is $5.2 billion. Given that the Gaza operation is already costing about $15 billion per month, it certainly appears that Israel isn't too worried about running out of money.
I'm inclined to think that President Biden and his advisors are well aware of "what they're up against." There's every indication of serious efforts being made by high-ranking cabinet-level officers making multiple trips to the region.
Mr. Friedman reports on an emerging three-track strategy that includes a response to Iranian and proxy attacks on U.S.forces, recognition of a Palestinian State, and a security alliance with Saudi Arabia that involves Saudi normalization of relations with Israel.
Suzanne, I understand why someone may think the idea of Hamas surrendering is "awesomely naive". But it surprises me that you, in particular, would characterize it in such a way.
Let me assure you that I harbor no expectation that such a thing will happen. That would be awesomely naive. But suggesting it is certainly no more naive than suggesting that everyone in every time zone observe a minute of silence at noon to focus on world peace.
These suggestions are not intended to be implemented, but only to expand the parameters of our thinking, as you have long advocated. Here's another suggestion that I wrote on October 13, as Israeli military forces were massing for the attack on Gaza:
"I'm reminded of the outstanding example of the families of Black victims at the 2015 church shootings. While condemning Dylan Roof's actions they offered forgiveness. Obviously, this is not really analogous in any way, except that my first impulse is always to look for an alternative to greater violence.
Imagine if instead of a vengance-driven orgy of destruction and misery, a massive influx of food and medical supplies along with economic development aid were undertaken. Imagine new schools and hospitals, infrastructure projects like roads and seaport facilities. How long would terrorist organizations hold sway when the Jewish State becomes the benefactor rather than the enemy?
At some point, there's only mutual destruction or mutual co-existence. Far better that the superior force, the one with a claim to moral authority as the chosen people of HaShem, should choose peace and forgiveness at this moment. The effect would be monumental and history altering."
Jerry, I so appreciate your response here. Yes. Were Israel to muster the enormous strength and psychic/emotional discipline necessary to take the moral high ground and lead by example of aiding Palestinians, rather than obliterating them in the pursuit of also dismantling Hamas, then the Palestinians could look up to Israel and abandon Hamas, which doesn’t care one whit for its citizens. It sure appears that Israel has squandered this opportunity to be a country that leads by example. How are we any better than the very group we seek to destroy? Hate met with hate only produces more hate. It’s very, very sad.
Retaliation was certain for the underlying deep need for the world's recognition of the Palestinian's subjugated state. Surender would be like the US letting Japan keep going after Pearl Harbor. It would end the war but leave them worse off than when they it started, willing to suffer for their freedom.
When the Russians were amassed, ready to invade Ukraine, I was suggesting that the Ukrainians feed the line-up so it would feel to Russians like killing family if they proceeded.
Naive to do a project where everyone in every time zone observed a minute of silence at noon to focus on world peace? How so?
I'm sorry, Suzanne, but I'm unclear about the meaning of your statement: "Retaliation was certain for the underlying deep need for the world's recognition of the Palestinian's subjugated state."
Did you mean that that the October 7 attack was retaliation for Israel's treatment of Palestinians, or that Israel's attack on Gaza is retaliation for the October 7 attack? Either way, Palestinian subjugation is already broadly recognized around the world. Another round of violence is in no way necessary or helpful.
My larger point is that this eternal cycle of retaliations will never produce a peaceful resolution. Therefore, one side or the other will eventually have to do the unexpected.
In my opinion, Israel as the more powerful party, should have responded to October 7 in a more creative way than just once again resorting to an orgy of violence. But since they have not, a Hamas surrender coupled with a coordinated supportive alliance of the U.S. and Arab States could be a foundation for ending the retaliatory cycle.
A better analogy than Pearl Harbor would be Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Like Gaza, the country was being demolished. Had the Japanese emperor refused to surrender, the war would have continued and countless more lives lost. By surrendering, Japan was able to rebuild and within a generation become a world economic power.
Jerry, you're fighting against human nature. When one is attacked, the human response is to survive, not give aid and comfort to your enemy. That's what you seem to be asking for. If I punched you in the face, would you welcome me with open arms?
You are not wrong, Eadie. In simple terms, punching back is the natural response to being punched. But the situation here is far more complex. This is not the first punch, nor even the hundredth punch. This is an endless cycle of punch and counter-punch, between two vastly mis-matched opponents -- a cycle that will never be resolved until one party does something different.
My point is that Israel, as the more powerful combatant, is better positioned to act with restraint. There is more to be gained by nourishing a partnership with the next generation of Palestinians rather than follow the current course, which will only insure their eternal contempt.
Jerry - So, when you say, "Let me assure you that I harbor no expectation that such a thing will happen. That would be awesomely naive" - are you agreeing with Suzanne, after all? It seems that you are implying that both she and you are being 'naive'.
Gunnar -- By using the word "that" three times in two sentences, I've inadvertently misled you. Sorry.
It would be awesomely naive to expect that a Hamas surrender will happen. Since I have no such expectation, I'm not implying my own naïveté. Likewise, I'm not implying that Suzanne is naive.
What I am saying is that expanding the parameters of our thinking is a worthwhile endeavor, one that we both advocate.
If we don’t want them to bomb, we certainly shouldn’t be giving them money to do it. Withhold the money send it to Ukraine instead but will do some good I don’t think the aid will get to the Palestinians and what difference does it make if he’s going to continue to bomb and kill them. When the bombing stops give aid to the Palestinians, meanwhile, give it to the Ukrainians
Biden is a slkillful diplomat? Ask 26,000 dead Palestinians. Oh wait. It's too late. He has already signed all the bills funding death and destruction across the globe while we sit here in peace. I guess it could be worse. But when radical Arabs casually stroll across the border and get retribution for our support for Bibi's genocide don't act surprised.
I don't think so. Jewish activists were among the first people to sign scholars', writers' and artists' letters of protest and demonstrate against the Israeli actions in Gaza, giving courage to others. Masha Gessen, Omar Bartov, and Nan Goldin are just a few prominent examples. Of course, these pro Israel groups that conflate support for the Israeli government with Judaism have a different effect.
Among the people I should have mentioned are Jewish Voice for Peace and American Jews active in Code Pink as well. These were among the first groups to demonstrate against the Israeli siege and bombardment in Gaza.
Not true. Trump’s big mouth is causing him to make more enemies; his shocking, TREASONOUS NATO/Putin statements, his snarling question of Nikki Haley’s husband whereabouts (where is HIS wife?), and his threats and warnings to Taylor Swift for starters. President Biden will win.
We all know what a HOAX the Republicans’ concern about the border are. Johnson refused any aide to Ukraine without a deal. Biden called his bluff, created a BI-PARTISAN bill and before it was even put on the floor for a vote, because Trump wants to KEEP the immigration crisis and not solve it for his election platform, Johnson declared the bill was dead. He also said any immigration bill can now wait until 2025. All of a sudden, it is no longer urgent.
The question of Republicans' sincerity on the border issue is different from the question of whether they can successfully paint Biden as a gross failure on this issue as part of their campaign. There is a real threat to Democrats here, as long as Biden is on the ticket.
Biden won by 8 million Votes last time over an "incumbent President". Now he is the incumbent. He can only loose if his actions are treasonous or lead the USA into a recession and right now, that is not the case.
The risk is that he loses Michigan because the Muslim community only votes down ballot and not for Biden. That makes every other competitive state more important.
But it’s not just Muslims who are furious with Biden about this. Young people and people of color are also turning against him.
And those of us who oppose Biden’s unconditional support for Netanyahu and his extremist government. It seems unthinkable to vote for a president who has supported the destruction of Gaza and the slaughter of Palestinian civilians. If only Biden would step aside to save American democracy.
What would you think Trump would have done if he had been re-elected in 2020? He would have listened to his advisors and done nothing as well. At least Biden is trying to get a cease fire and get hostages released. Israel experienced. a 9/11 moment and everyone was behind Israel getting back at Hamas just like we did on 9/11 until we went into Iraq looking for "weapons of mass destruction". Israel has gotten its pound of flesh and is now committing a genocide of Palestine. Donald Trump had the Muslim ban and is cozy with Netanyahu but what would he have done?
I respectfully disagree. This time around, most Americans think Biden is too old. Biden's evident mental decline has the effect of masking Trump's own decline. Trump's age would be an issue if it wasn't for Biden.
In addition, if Biden is NOT the candidate, then Trump can't run against Biden's record on immigration, which is central to Trump's election strategy.
One of Trump's biggest fear is that he age-vulnerable. A younger, youthful, well-spoken man (probably white) from middle america could crater all his plans. Right now Dems are depressed with the age of their candidate....but more depressed by Fascist Trump.
Of all the candidates who fit the bill, Steve Breshears, the concept of Gov of Kentucky likely scares the bejesus out of Trump.
Marianne Williamson needs to be President. She was made invisible by our "bought" media but she is there, is well informed about our major issues and has powerful responses/solutions, is published, highly intelligent, energetic, and the right leader for these times!
Nope--a vote for Biden is no different than a vote for Trump. He is even worse as he pretends to be humanist and people centered when in fact, like Trump, he is totally corporate and always has been.
I don't have the luxury of refusing to vote or voting 3rd party...too many people would suffer under a GOP theocracy, too many women would die under a national abortion ban, too many children would be denied a public education, too many seniors would be left destitute.
My vote won't be the one that opens the door to fascism, no matter how much I despise this administration's impotent response to Netanyahu.
Both Parties are promoting fascism so there is no difference. And Biden/Centrist Dems are not impotent--they are promoting their core policies while pretending to bend a very wee bit to the massive public pressure being placed on them. Remember Israel is in a coveted geo-political location for access to the regions oil, Arab States for surveillance and attack, and all the gas in the Mediterranean waters that belong to Gaza to mention a few of the resources. Biden, like the GOP is imperialist and hegemonic and they will operate out of the oligarch's interest as well as allowing Israel to increase its nuclear and biochemical industries as well as others that do not have the very few limits placed on these developments here in the US. Remember that is why, or a major why, the US funded Wuhan for Gain -Of-Function bioterrorism research and the numerous bioweaponry research labs in Ukraine. WE still don't know how of these labs the US funds in the world!
Biden is totally supporting the One World Government of the WEF proposal and the WHO One World Pandemic Treaty that the left seems to either ignore or be ignorant about. And that Treaty is due to 'voted' by all the countries in April. Do you have any idea what kind of totalitarian control that will give the oligarchs that can remain hidden from public view? Do you have any idea of how they have been using 'pandemics,' artificially created to gain some public support to push this totalitarian control that essentially destroys nation States? If you are fearful of fascism, then you need to look at what is really being done and stop pretending it is leaders without backbone--their backbone is quite strong. Look at what they are doing and understand that is exactly what they support.
The difference is Biden is a career politician. Trump has been corrupt since the cradle. Not so Biden but unfortunate with our system of government and the rules we've asked politicians to run under, they have to get $$ from the corporate world. That doesn't automatically make them corrupt.
In fact it does not matter the difference you perceive. Biden is worse than Trump as he is duplicitous. He supported horrendous racist legislation when Clinton was in office including supporting conditions that increased private prisons and the incarceration of increasing numbers of Black people. He, like Obama, kept the neo-cons employed from the Bush and Trump administrations. Trump railed against the news media but Biden directed several gov't agencies to develop financial surveillance and control programs to control our money. Along with this exec order, he promotes the WEF agenda of a One World Govt for which Bush began to prime the public to accept. Biden's refusal to release Julian Assange is due to the program to subvert freedom of the press and use his case to intimidate/threaten journalists and has actively supported the censoring of information that questioned govt/corporate narratives. His rabid support of Israel's genocide leaves me speechless. The man is a criminal and should never get anyone's vote. The list of his support for human abuses is 50 yrs long. So yes as a 'professional' politician we have 50 yrs to have learned what a s.o.b. he is and how absolutely harmful he is to our civil liberties.
And TFG? How much support do you really think he’ll give to the Palestinians?? This is the same guy who moved our embassy to Jerusalem. He’d green light a wholesale eradication of the Palestinians.
Nvm. If you can’t see that he’s a twice impeached, 4 x indicted, 91 FELONY counts, emoluments violating, top secret document stealing, Putin loving, grifting, convicted rapist and serial adulterer then there’s zero hope for you.
The truth about both of them is UGLY. Remember how Biden trampled all over Anita Hill and enabled old on-the-take big-time Clarence Thomas to sit on the Supreme Court, AND voted to attack Iraq (gotta get those NONEXISTENT WMDs!), AND resides in the biggest off-shore on-shore LLC state in the nation. (LITTLE OLD DELAWARE HAS MORE LAUNDERED KLEPTOCRAT MONEY HIDDEN THERE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE U.S. and nowadays, probably in places like Caracas too!) Biden is no "innocent"!
Yes, Biden has supported massively racist legislation including development of private prisons that enslave mainly Black people. And his current funding of the Israeli massacre without any limitations. And lets not forget the funding and support of the fake Covid debacle that made Billions for the Pharma industry and its prostitutes like Fauci and his cohort, killed many with the toxic treatments and the promise to create even more of them as the excuse to support the WHO One World Pandemic Treaty that totally subsumes individual States legal authority within the State. WE also cannot ignore/forget the starvation he supports with sanctions against other States like Venezuela simply because that country wants to control its own natural resources and support the needs of the people instead of American oligarchs. The list of Biden's fascist is 50 yrs long but his current horrors is more than enough. But Trump is not the alternative which some people limited by their Binary thinking can only see.
Yes, that guy and the political Parties that both support fascism. I guess you prefer your fascism to wear a softer smile despite it funding genocide and eugenics and totalitarian control by invisible oligarchs.
It feels like the young folk are speaking up on this incrementalist, older ones, Biden supporting substack. it is a relief to some of us..Not supporting Biden, does not mean supporting trumpty the treasonous.
Absolutely. Have been meaning to post the same idea to make sure people are not thinking of the binary choices we are presented. What do you think of Cornell West? Kennedy?
Tanya - I’m 1000% with you on not supporting this idea that Biden is the “lesser of 2 evils” but imo Kennedy is very bad news (look at what he stands for) and West comes across as wackadoodle when he tries to engage people with the elder/minister demeanor. If the DNC goes into convention without an endorsed candidate, I fear they’ll raise another AIPAC-endorsed leader like Gavin Newsom. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s not looking good, America. I fear our time may be up.
Yep, many have the same dilemma. We have no adequate candidates. West is great in his politics but his communication style is not acceptable or understandable to white people. His spirituality is actually similar to Kennedy's. However, Kennedy has lost many supporters over his rigid support of Israel and its genocide. He clearly has no real study on the history of its occupation and ethnic cleansing ideology. The public also has been misled about his health agenda as the media has blatantly lied about him and refuses to give him any real coverage. Williamson is very good but is too soft in her presentation and this country is not ready for a spiritually based, progressive who is female. I am at a point of writing in "none acceptable" on my ballot as they have done in Michigan? Wisconsin? I am hearing others say the same. We are left with the choice of refusing to vote for any candidate and organizing a loud, public movement against all these fascists and demanding a platform that is humanistic and democratic as neither of the 2 main Parties stand for such values. FYI, Biden is even worse than Trump/GOP in his support for transhumanism and biotechnological control of our lives. He has been signing exec orders to this effect along with digital control of our personal finances so people can be literally shut out of life if they refuse to comply with a corporate agenda.
Tanya, on day one of his presidency Trump could launch a war on Iran, and it would be legal because Iran has supported terrorists. There is nothing Trump wants more than admiration, and he has surrounded himself with bigoted, authoritarian war-mongers. They all think short-term and are indifferent to suffering--unless it is that of their immediate families.
I would be careful about using the term 'terrorist.' All too often that only means people who disagree with US hegemonic control and resist it. Remember that was the impetus of the Iraq debacle--Hussein's efforts to pull away from US dollar control of Iraq and its oil industry. And supported by American racism and hostility towards those of Muslim faith, the US had no problem in invading that country and destroying it as they did with Afghanistan and Korea, the war that never was settled. Even in the US, the term is being applied to people who disagree with whatever the government narrative is on any issue. This tactic was heavily used after 9-11 and become standard tactic being used against people on both the right and left.
Tanya, you raise a valid point: we should be very careful when using the term "terrorist," because it can be easily abused. We also seem to have a firmly entrenched bias in applying the term to those who rise against oppression, but not to the oppressors. So here is a question to you: if the people of North Korea were to rise against their totalitarian regime would you call them "terrorists"?
We have no idea what N Korea is like. We only know the biased reporting the press is allowed to print. I make to pretense to know if the people are that unhappy. I do know the US decimated the country and has never signed a truce with it so in effect we are still at war with that country. We do know how the US imperialism and hegemonic policies work along with real freedom to report news.
That said, I do support people rising up against their oppression as we have been able to see clearly over the decades with Israel's intent to eliminate the Palestinians and I do not call Hamas a terrorist group. Remember the British called the American colonists who rose up against the British terrorists. Labels are created constantly to promote ideology and political positions so we should be very careful on how we judge those who the US elites do not like.
My head is where it belongs--not believing the mainstream narratives and trying to go behind the curtains to see the realities. Now, if you think Trump was a suck up to Putin, how else would you characterize both his and Biden's submissiveness to Netanyahu, a known criminal in his own country trying to avoid the courts just like Trump. Personally, I find Putin to not be as scarey or invasive as the US is in every countries elections. What will you say about Biden's blowing up the NORD I & II fuel lines which is an act of war! So my suggestion to you is that you try to find some independence in thinking and see the bigger picture.
You really want to give up any semblance of democracy because you’re so principal that you think they’re the same? Four years of Trump will destroy this country and everything that ever stood for.
Israel's leadership, going back to Sharon and Netanyahu's brought Israel to today. Yes, Israel is a "pariah" and their dealing with Hamas will exacerbate antisemitism. I just wish Netanyahu's using his country and its people to save his own ass could be recognized by Americans. Netanyahu IS Donald Trump....they are the same monster. God help Americans if they can't learn this in-your-face-lesson.
Yes, and Biden’s failure to be an effective deterrent in this case is dragging us along for the ride. Failed Middle East policy and making us a pariah country like Netanyahu and Israel. Same for most of the EU and the UK, who have actively supported them or supply weapons.
The old colonial mentality and empire building is and always has been bad for the Global South countries, people and cultures. The world has changed. US policy needs to change too.
I agree with most of what you stated. Anyone who truly paid attention to the conflict saw this coming a million miles away. I don’t agree that Biden is our only chance. The Democratic Party needs to wake up and pick a new nominee. Biden has always been racist (just because he nice to some black people doesn’t mean he’s not racist) and it shows in his utter dismissal of the lives of Palestinians. I have always voted democratic, but I’d literally rather died than vote for that genocidal racist.
The only thing uniting the remnants of this country is the desire for a different Democratic presidential candidate. I desperately wish that our voices mattered.
What's with the Trump comparison? He's the only president that didn't get us into a war. He called US policy in the Middle East "insane." Tell me why he was wrong.
Unfortunately, she's a poor candidate on multiple levels: no experience, she's 73, funded by corporations, will syphon off just enough votes for a Trump win.
In 2016, she insisted on a recount...raised funds, then dismissed her staff (no recount and never accounted for the funds).
Prof. Reich -- Your next to the last paragraph asks the most relevant question about no conditions aid. The EU countries are now conditioning aid to Israel. Our Congress should do the same.
That’s my sentiment. To Israel: STOP Bombing Children! You have become the monster by bombing children. Tens of thousands of children. To America: STOP FUNDING THE BOMBING OF CHILDREN.
The condemnation of Hamas has been prevalent in mainstream and social media. To suggest otherwise is patently false. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and Israel is a world leader. World leaders have a responsibility to follow the international laws of war. It is possible to condemn Hamas while also seeing that Netanyahu is committing war crimes. It is not antisemitic to criticize an administration.
It has nothing to do with retribution. It’s about two things - getting the hostages returned and destroying Hamas’s capabilities to repeat 10-7 as they’ve promised to do!
Where did you hear that load of bull? These Palestinians in Israeli prisons have tried to kill people and multiple other crimes. They are absolutely not held for “no reason!”Furthermore, some have been released and refuse to leave because they have better treatment in Israeli prisons than at home. I’d love to know the source of this fake propaganda.
The US will stand strong. February will be the turning point although it should have come much sooner. Maybe the Guardian that showed six Palestinian children under sheets. That was my turning point.
Sadly, our political commitment to Israel seems to stand implacably against opposing Bibi. Our political leadership must stand up for human rights before the Israel far-right's commitment to wipe Hamas from the face of the earth. We need to restrict our aid and support of Bibi's government...NOW.
It's not just Hamas,. James, Netanyahu plans to wipe out Gaza and Palestinians, period. It is pure crass genocide he wants. There is plenty of land in Israel, just look at a map. The Israelis do not need the West Bank or Gaza. They (Netanyahu and his mobsters) are exactly like the trumpster magats in our country. Like fascists and dictators everywhere, they seek "purity" as though one Homo sapiens is superior to another Homo sapiens - we are all the same animal just as every domestic cat is the same animal as every other domestic cat. And every domestic dog is the same animal as all other domestic dogs. Just cosmetic differences.
“ The Israelis do not need the West Bank or Gaza. “ that is correct however, Israel must keep her borders, safe… No matter what. This was a provoked attack by terrorists.
Don’t assume. Israel is not a war in country. And Israel wants to be left alone. There are extremists in every country. Palestinians do not recognize Israel as a sovereign country. For that matter, how many of the Arab countries do.
Why would Palestinians “recognize” Israel as a sovereign state when such recognition is not reciprocal? The Israelis have oppressed and battered the Palestinians for decades. Taking their lands, their homes, their water and blockading them in closed enclaves not much better than prisons. Stop pretending this started with Oct 7. It started in 1948.
Yes. Israel has never been honest or fair with Palestinians. The oppression/illegal settlements and inequality has been present for decades. Palestinian people owned land, Israel took it, took their houses, imprisoned people for no reason.
Resistance in a nonviolent way is and has never been honored by Israel and the abuse continued for decades. It did not start on Oct.7.
To those that condemn Hamas: What would we do in the face of decades of abuse with someone stealing land that has beefed in our families for generations? Killing us, abusing us, kidnapping us and watching nothing happen when the abuser gets away with human rights violations and racism?
Israel has never faced meaningful consequences for their behavior. Look at the documented examples of human rights abuses. The international system created to prevent this gives the global West preferential treatment.
In 2005, Ariel Sharon removed al of hisl troops from Gaza, in the hope of a peace settlement. They received rockets instead. The amount of disinformation expressed on this site is really outrageous. Israel's territory is the size of New Jersey. Arabs received 80% of the land they wanted in the League of Nations. The land given to the Arabs extends all the way to Syria. Israel fought the war of Independence to keep this sliver of land they received by all of the allied nations at the time. It took a holocaust and mass genocide of Jews to do this. Since then, 4 US Presidents have been unsuccessful in achieving peace with Iran/Hamas. Where was the outrage when Hamas terrorists killed in cold blood 1200 innocent Israelis and kept 250 hostages on those that would blame Israel? Where is the outrage that allows them to keep these hostages? It's one thing to defend the safety of Palestinians. It's another to condemn Israel who was not the attacker. Why won't Egypt take the Gazans in or Jordan.D? Certainly they have more than enough land to help their brothers and sisters. The hypocrisy by supposedly fair minded people own this thread is truly disheartening!
With that I agree. But securing those borders does not include mass killing of citizens, men women or children. In the past Mossad proved their capability of attacking and killing specific enemies. Netanyahu, instead intends to wipe the Gazan people off the face of the earth. Killing Hamas is acceptable, killing babies is not.
None of it is acceptable. It’s all horrible however, have you ever been in war? This is hand to hand combat in a densely populated area that is hiding terrorists and hostages below the ground. Not so easy my friend.
The Palestinian ‘brothers’ refuse to open their borders to help. They don’t want Hamas terrorists in their country, either
Very sad. I feel for the people, collateral damage…Hamas should be ashamed. Are they???? The answer is NO
You are correct, Ronnie, I have never had the misfortune to be in a war, or even in a gun fight. But, zi must point out that prior to Netanyahu, Israel has been in multiple wars since it's current founding in 1947/1948. Until, Netanyahu, they have won every war by attacking military personnel. The Israelis are among the best military on Earth, without Netanyahu and his disreputable policies, I have ever confidence the Israelis could and would have won this battle by attacking combatants. Netanyahu is the Israeli version of the trumpster, granted with far more intelligence than trump. If he attacked Iran, it would have made more sense.
Israelis have been in 4 major wars and 13 operations where they've lost thousands people. All these battles took place because they were attacked by their Arab neighbors. If you took the time to read Israel's war plans other than the outlets that support Hamas, you might find they are eliminating the opposition which I might add, warning Hamas and the Palestinians where they will be fighting. Something Hamas didn't have the courtesy of doing in any of their attacks. They have taken care of the terrorists so far, however, Hamas's base of operations is in Rafah. It was a strategic mistake on Israel's part not to strike there first. That is where all of the leaders of Hamas/Iran are hiding. If Israel attacked Iran, it would have involved NATO and the US. Iran is now massing its troops in the north. They are preparing for war, since they can say Israel is not willing to remove their military from Gaza and it will be accepted as a good excuse to create an expansion of the war.
The Arabs have most of the middle east and ALL of North Africa - and they want it ALL.
I say Arab and not Palestinians, because in 1917 there was NO Lebanese people (in the sense of a SEPARATE national identity), NO Syrian people, NO Jordanian people and NO Palestinian people. They were ALL the Arabs of the Levant under Ottoman rule. And following WWI the Arabs got most of it. All these nationalities are the creation of France, Britain, and Egypt/Russia and created to serve THEIR interests.
The names were used,of course - but to indicate the geographic region - not as a SEPARATE national identity. SEPARATE national identities do emerge - but not at a blink of an eye.
Israel is not a democracy, it's a Jewish supremacist state. According to legislation passed in 2018, Israel exists for Jews. Everyone else is a second class citizen. They are not allowed to vote, have access to bomb shelters (of which there are many in Israel and none in Gaza), and Palestinian Israelis in particular are relegated to menial, low paying jobs since Israel controls the economy.
Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have declared Israel to be an apartheid state.
Joyce, I call misinformation and prejudice. You have conveniently left out of your unfounded reply that Monsour Abbas who currently represents the United Arab party in the Knesset is a former member of the Muslim Brotherhood, no friend of the Israelis. He has made great strides for Arab Israeli people who represent 20% of Israel's population. How many Israelis live in Palestine? How many are represented in their gov't? How many attend their schools. Monsieur Abbas attended Hebrew University. Answer: Zero because they had to flee for their lives at the time of the partition. BTW, the partition was signed by all of the Allied nations at the time. If a country can remove themselves wily, wily from treaties that secured not only their security but also to live in peace and prosperity, what trust in these agreements can the international community have in them? That's what tRump would like to do with NATO. It's a sure way to bring WWIII to all of us. BTW, your reply shows your utter ignorance on the subject.
You mean menial jobs like being the administrator of a large Israeli hospital or sitting on the Israeli Supreme Court? I guess an Arab playing professional sports or being a news anchor is pretty menial, too. All these jobs are held by Arabs. Look up Khaled Kabub or Lucy Ahrish. https://www.israel21c.org/16-arabs-from-israel-making-a-difference-on-the-world-stage/
If non-Jewish residents were equal, they could marry someone in the West Bank and choose to live together in Israel. They can't. Only Jewish Israelis can do that, and they're subsidized on top of it to make it extra sweet. That is just one example of the 50+ laws Israel has on its books guaranteeing non-Jewish persons of the state second class citizenship—over half of those discriminatory laws in effect since May 15, 1948. They've never been equal. That's the problem. It is the root cause of this entire issue.
There is always room for improvement. This is true.
However, your claim wrong for two reasons:
(1) it is a claim about IMMIGRATION and immigration by definition applies to NON CITIZENS. and
(2) If a Jewish Israeli marries a spouse from the west bank - his or her spouse will not be allowed in either. So there is no discrimination between a Jewish citizen and an Arab citizen - they will both be denied.
Other democracies also have similar Ethnic immigration laws - but you focus only at the Jewish state. This is double standard.
No, if they marry a settler, they can both live in Israel or the West Bank. An Israeli Arab must renounce his Israeli residency and move to the West Bank if he or she wants to live with their family.
Then we get to the license plates, ID cards, the 2018 nation state law, the inability as an Arab Israeli to openly criticize the genocide or celebrate the return of a family member held under administrative detention. Then we have the limitations on subsidies, laws reclaiming their property if they’re absent from the country too long, difficultly getting permits, the absence of their history and culture in education, the inability to live in a settlement, drive in the West Bank anywhere they want…I can go on. They’re Israel’s version of Jim Crowe. Better off than the slaves (occupied people) but far from full, valued citizens with full rights, dignity and freedom. They’re a veneer, and they know it.
Not so simple as you describe it. You make claims as if there were facts. In reality the ministry on interior will not recognize the marriage. I am married to a non-Jewish and what you say is simply not the case.
You also refer to "the genocide" as if it was fact - whereas this is your opinion. Genocide requires intent and policy to wipe out an ethnic group or part of it. If you want to see what genocidal intent is - read the Hamas charter: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
I said above - NOT everything is peachy - there is always room for improvement, But try to go to Israel, talk to people on the street - especially Arabs, ask them if they prefer to be under the Palestinian Authority rule - see what they tell you. They don't want to live under other rule - they want change Israel to be more like the US - I do understand them -- but the US is *the exception* among democracies - most democracies in the world are ethnic states - and so is Israel. The Jews have a right to an Ethnic state - and I am not going to apologize about it. There are 22 Arab states and only one tiny Jewish state.
The Jews have a right to self-determination and home land and have a right to defend itself - and it is the ONLY nation which have these rights questioned - publicly. I am not going to apologize for defending these rights either.
If you want to stop the war in Gaza? return the hostages and get Hamas leaders out of Gaza. Until this is done every live lost in Gaza - Israeli or Arab - is on Hamas hands.
You never mention Israeli’s or Zionist. All of your comments are anti-Jewish or attacks on the Torah, which says everything! I have nothing more to say to a Jew hater.
If you've any way of getting to Biden through your myriad contacts & connections, please try to get the message across to him that, for the sake of his campaign, for the Gazan population and Israelis opposed to Natanyahu, he must take a strong stance & position for an immediate cease fire and siege of that land. This could well cost him the election and doom for the rest of us.
If President Biden can't or won't stop supporting Netanyahu's genocide this November American voters will have to choose between two monsters. We need a more morally acceptable alternative.
You'd have us live with President tRump, a criminal, a fraudster, a mentally deranged personality bought and paid for by Puttn, a thug, and you're willing to live under that in preference to what Americans have to deal with. By all means, vote for the Green party and my prayer is that tRump leans on you when he is elected.
Thom Hartmann describes you and sycophant friends to a tee Jon. "Why are conservatives calling for the end of American democracy? At the CPAC meeting this week, a well-known rightwing influencer, Jack Posobiec, went off on a rant about how important it is for conservatives to band together to end democracy in America and, presumably, replace it with Christofascism like in Russia. “Welcome to the end of democracy!” he declared. “We’re here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6th, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here,” he said as he held up a cross. “That’s right, because all glory is not to government, all glory to God.” This, frankly, should not be surprising. It was 1951 when Russell Kirk, the godfather of the modern conservative movement, published his book The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot in which he laid out the importance of “classes and orders” in society. (I detailed Kirk extensively in The Hidden History of American Oligarchy.) The middle class was growing like a weed back then — this was before Reagan kneecapped the labor movement — and Kirk warned that if too many people got into the middle class and were no longer “the fearful poor” that there’d be chaos in America. He warned that women would no longer respect their husbands, racial minorities would forget their “rightful place” in the social order, young people would defy their parents, and society would go to hell. The solution, dictated back in the late 1700s by British conservative Edmund Burke, was to gut the middle class and return to the “normal” social form of a small number of really rich people at the top, a tiny middle class of doctors, lawyers, and professionals who served the morbidly rich, and a massive class of the working poor. This was the world
Charles Dickens wrote about in almost all of his novels, and, when the 1960s happened and women, students, and minorities rose up in protest, became the world that Reaganomics was established to return us to. Gutting the middle class, eliminating the social safety net, and “restoring order” to society is still the conservative mantra, now heavily overlaid with rightwing Christian ideology. So Posobiec’s proclamation that it’s time to replace democracy with strongman authoritarianism should surprise exactly nobody."
I agree. Those actually in a position to talk to Biden need to convince him to be more forceful and to stop the aid to make Netanyahu stop the killing. bibi and our ex president are two of a kind .
He is engaging in quiet diplomacy. He is putting a great deal of pressure on the Netanyahu gov't. The last thing he wants to do in this country is cause more polarization and friction. That's what you're asking him to do by going public. He is trying to win the presidency and your advice is a sure way to buy him.
It needs to be stronger than that. Tell Netanyahu there's no more money until he can get control of his own rage and start acting surgically, as he should have in the beginning; also, Biden could lose the election over this.
Stop saying that. He will not, are you not aware of the Republican assault on women’s bodily autonomy? They’re not going to win. We’re pissed. 65,000 women were sexually assaulted and became pregnant in states with abortion bans. What did they all do? How many were forced to give birth against their will? They are trying to get rid of no fault divorce, because they hate women and want them to return them to traditional gender roles. They’re not going to win, and stop speaking it into existence! However, I too am disgusted with Israel, but electing trump will not help them.
The people who will not show up for Biden include millions of Muslims, young people and people of color who did show up in 2020.
Saying that trump is worse has little impact when tens of thousands are being ethnically cleansed and Biden is paying for it is frankly meaningless if you identify with the oppressed.
You'd have us live with President tRump, a criminal, a fraudster, a mentally deranged personality bought and paid for by Puttn, a thug, and you're willing to live under that in preference to what Americans have to deal with. By all means, vote for the Green party and my prayer is that tRump leans on you when he is elected.
Angela, you may have me confused with someone else because of the way this chat room moves comments around. I'm totally pro choice and completely on top of the Republican misogyny. Fascists first find ways to control women via pregnancy. I've known that since high school.
Did you ever hear of quiet Diplomacy? He is not trying to cause more friction in the US by going public. If you read anything regarding the subject from an Israeli perspective, he is putting a great deal of pressure on the Netanyahu gov't. Don't be fooled by the media who create a negative narrative whenever possible. Negative press pays! The media gets no reimbursement if everyone is happy.
Your vote is your choice, but to not vote or vote 3rd party is 1/2 a vote for Trump, and Trump will support Netanyahu more than Biden will and also regulate personal autonomy more.
No, at this point a vote for Trump is a vote for more genocide, a"green" vote or for any other 3rd party is 1/2 a vote for Trump and more genocide, a vote for Biden is a vote for less Jewish genocide, and less Palestinian genocide. Trump will make things worse all around. I wish there was a direct solution to the Israeli / Palestinian conflict, but I don't see it.
If the Holocaust taught us anything, we have a moral obligation to stand up for oppressed people everywhere. How sad that Israel's government is committing such heinous war crimes against innocent Palestinian people. Given the experiences of the Jewish people under the Nazi, it's hard to understand how Israel is doing these crimes.
They want the land, Israel has been taking more land all along. They provoke the Palestinians and neighbors until they react and use that as an excuse to take more.
This did not start on 10/7 and every intelligent person - including you - knows that.
How is taking hostages any different than the indefinite detention that Israel practices against Palestinians every single day? Even against children.
How is “hiding behind civilians” in Gaza any different than sending in hostile and violent “settlers” to steal homes and land from Palestinians every day? By using the settlers as the tip of the spear, Israel has made them combatants in their war against the Palestinians.
Yes, innocent. Those who perpetrated the crimes should be held account, but eradicating an entire people because of an attack is collective punishment, which is a war crime and a crime against humanity.
You do know that Palestine has been occupied for 75 years? That the attacks on Palestine were happening well before Hamas existed? And, Netanyahu was offered ALL the hostages back for a ceasefire and he said NO. He doesn't care about the hostages, and I don't think he even cares about Hamas. He just needed an excuse to ethnically cleanse Palestine. It has been their goal all along. The ICJ court case established that the language used by the top officials of Israel consistently refer to the total destruction of Palestine and its people.
What is wrong with you? This happened because Hamas attacked Israel and took those poor hostages and murdered many more. Israel wants the hostages and the bodies back. NOW
However, she must defend her borders and not allow Hamas to have an advantage by doing so.
Jon is a sick man. Just read his posts. Paul, in the Christian bible, did his work on him. Jews have been slaughtered for thousands of years because of what's taught in Christian churches for millennia.
Professor, I am also Jewish and in 100% agreement. As far as I’m concerned, Netanyahu and his cadre of right-wing messianic Jews, are no better than Hamas, and each deserves each other. The rest of us do not.
This is exactly what Netanyahu wanted. Using a terrorist attack to further his cause of ridding Gaza and the West Bank of as many Palestinians they can force into exile. And his cabinet members don’t even hade the fact that they want to expel at least a million Palestinians from Gaza.
This response is atrocious and I honestly don’t think Biden is up to the task to take on Netanyahu. And Netanyahu is helping to elect Trump.
I wholeheartedly agree; only aid with strings attached. Unconditional support has led us to this tragedy, and it needs to end now!
I agree, Robert. And even if Israel manages to destroy Hamas, which I don’t think is possible, then what? Everything is fine and dandy? Not possible. The only way to fix this is to come to some negotiated win-win solution. And for the record, I’m Jewish too.
That's what Biden has been trying to do through quiet diplomacy first and more recently his bully pulpit to accuse Netanyahu's response as over the top.
I have said from the start of this conflict that Netanyahu must go. He like tRump needed an issue to use as a get out of jail card. However, that does not excuse Palestine's Arab neighbors who IMO are more responsible for the death and destruction in Palestine today, nor does it excuse the blatant lies and disinformation expressed on this thread.
Jon, my children intermarried. You read the Torah as Saint Paul put his thumb on your conclusions. Jews have been slaughtered in his name for millennia.
Again, everyone is acting as if Israel started this war, ignoring that Hamas started it and is continuing it. They are killing innocent Israeli children, destroying their homes, launching rockets from civilian areas and then when Israel announces they are going to take out their rocket launchers at their site, giving ample time for civilians to vacate the area, Hamas doesn't let them leave. The surrounding Arab countries close their borders. Then they ramp up their spending on propaganda to paint Israel as just randomly killing civilians on purpose. Nobody shows footage of the wreckage in Israel done by the rockets they have launched. Hamas has not stopped launching them at Israel. So Israel is supposed to just let them keep doing that? Then their Arab backers spread propaganda making it look as if it's all one-sided and Israel is trying to take away their land from them. That land had already been taken from them by the British. Israel is the one who made the two-state solution possible and that is the only reason why there is a Palestine today. But was it enough for the Arab nations to let Israel live in peace? No. From the get-go they were wanting more and used their proximity to attack Israel. The money they are now spending on propaganda is crazy. They could spend it instead on helping civilians flee the war zone and shelter them until the war is over. This has been decades of abuse. They teach their children that killing Jews is a good thing to do, part of a holy war. You don't see that in the news. The two state solution would work if the Palestinians had not elected Hamas to run its government and if the surrounding Arab countries hadn't helped make that happen. There is only one Jewish homeland where Jewish people have lived for centuries, not just since the 40s. There are 22 Arab nations, but even creating the state of Palestine was not enough. They just used their proximity to attack. The Hamas Palestinians and their supporters are at fault for every single civilian death in this war, both in Gaza and in Israel. I am a progressive Democrat, and I know some people are flocking to support Palestine because it's the opposite side as the right wing in the United States. To that I'd say even a broken clock is right twice a day, and in this case the broken clock that is the right wing, is right to support Israel, a democracy, over the current terrorist-run Palestinian state.
Let's not forget that over the past several years, Israel is responsible for between 5,000 - 10,000 dead Palestinians by Israeli forces under the guise of protecting Israel. Further, the overall total number of dead Palestinians is huge compared to dead Israelis over the years of conflicts.
How does one compare the value of a dead child, Israeli vs. Palestinian???
This conflict is nothing more than a military incursion designed to wipe the Palestinians and any semblance of a Palestinian State from the map of Israel.
What is the difference today between Netanyahoo and any other muderous dictator we have experienced over the past 50 years???
That's an absurd argument - "under the guise of protecting Israel," when was that? And the respective death tolls, how do you interpret that, exactly? Because what it shows is just how little terrorist fanatics like Hamas value their OWN civilians, and the fact Israel has the so-called "Iron Dome"!
Thanks for proving my point, you people have no functioning moral compasses at all and are forced to rely on hilariously ad hominem bilge, so thanks for the laugh!
It would be as if I accused you of "supporting the internationally designated Hamas terrorists, and arguing they have every right to site drones, missiles and mortars IN civilian areas, using their own civilians as human shields, in order to launch strikes AT civilians in Israel,"
the so-called "triple war crime." But as it is, you simply obey the prime directive that Hamas hopes to derive from doing that: to garner the most gullible, well-meaning opponents of Israel's right to self-defense against aggressive genocide, by framing the issue as, "We in Hamas have every right to kill and maim YOUR civilians, but when we hide behind OUR women and children, you have NO right to target us! None!"
It's embarrassing enough that you fall for that nonsense, but it also means any attempted insults of me are simply laughable, exposing your grotesque lack of basic humanity, not mine.
No Joyce, not at all but before the Nazis were vanquished many more people died at their hands; many since then have decried their murderous incursions as 'holocaust' and genocide. In war, it is acepted that many people will perish but it is the way that the deaths occur, it is the volume of deaths of innocents that matter. That's what history remembers.......
Uh-huh... forgive me but where do you get your news??? The same places suggesting some kind of equanimity of Israeli deaths on Oct 7th vs about 25,000 Palestinians since then, many of whom were children??? Time to take the blinders off Jean, this genocide no matter who tells you anything different...
Millions of Arab dollars spent on propaganda apparently is having just the result they wanted it to have with some of us. The truth is that every single civilian death in this war is on Hamas and the surrounding Arab countries who closed their borders leaving civilians trapped in a war zone just so they could spread this nonsense you are so willing to believe. Israel always warns before striking and civilians should have been able to escape even before these retaliatory strikes occurred. Who held them there? Hamas. Who enabled Hamas to do it? Arab countries deciding not to help civilians to safety and choosing instead to spend millions on anti-Israel propaganda. You fell right into their trap. They could have helped evacuate all of the civilians. Ask yourself, why wouldn't they have done that? They have plenty of room, plenty of resources. Why did they leave civilians there to die? They don't care about human life, that's why. They care only about their written goal to kill all the Jews in Israel and destroy the one and only Jewish homeland.
Sorry to hear your extended perspective... you are welcome to your opinion but I must suggest that Arab propaganda is not the only misinformation available. More importantly, there is a common view that Hamas does not equal Palestinians, who for the most part have lived with Israelis, crossing borders for work, business & religion in Israel.
Not exactly the hallmark of a written goal to kill all Jews. Further, I would simply ask why has it taken so long for Israel to welcome any alliance with the more moderate Arab states like the Saudis. What has transpired since has led many to believe a 2 - State Solution could be a possibility. However, Hamas just like Netanyahu want nothing to do with that solution.
There is plenty of blame to go around Jean and I sincerely hope I have not offended you....
I'm not offended. I know there are good Palestinians who don't have that same extremist agenda. It is a written goal of Hamas and many Palestinian children are being raised to hate Jews, to believe killing them is a holy act. There are no similar schools in Israel that I'm aware of teaching children to hate their Palestinian neighbors. I was hoping Netanyahu would be removed again, especially since his moves to stifle democracy in manipulating its judiciary processes have resulted in a loss of support for him. There was a movement to replace him gaining momentum. Hamas just regained for him some of the support that he had lost by its timing of this unprovoked attack. Their manipulation of these events, attacking while he was in power knowing full well how he would react, solidifies my belief that they are to blame for every single death and injury in this war along with the wealthy Arab nations who chose to close their borders instead of offering sanctuary and safety. They have the money, they have the room. There is no excuse for them leaving civilians in a war zone to be used as shields by Hamas Palestinians.
The author of this newsletter set the tone. The result has been a deliberate stream of lies and fabrications from people that should no better. The Jew haters have an excuse to spread their propaganda. From the Rothchild family's net worth estimated at 20 trillion to the George Soros controlling the world's levers of power trope. Describing Israel as the aggressor because they weren't satisfied with the more than adequate land they were given by our allies in 1945, they decided to murder them, because obviously they have the capacity to shelter 2 million Arabs. Israel invading a peaceful country has been the order of the day, where settlers are murdered randomly. Politically these people know the can win the propaganda war everyday of the week, and they are doing their best to achieve that goal.
Bullies—in their fearfulness—have no sense of proportionality. No recognition of equality or moral obligation. Jews are a just people but Zionist Israel’s horrific actions are turning world sentiment against Jews. How does this ensure safety and security for Israel?
Israel is not the bully. You mean Hamas and the Arab countries backing them. Again one teeny tiny Jewish country, 22 Arab countries, many extremely wealthy, vast lands. Who is being ganged up on and bullied? Not the 22 Arab countries against 44 democracies. It's the one and only Jewish homeland, the only one, who has been attacked for decades just for its existence. Hamas has trapped civilians in the war zone while they continue to fire rockets at Israel killing innocent Israeli children, plus there are years and years of other heinous acts of terrorism all based upon greed and selfishness of Arab nations not content with what they already have. They want to pretend Israel took something from them. Israel gave them Palestine. They didn't have to do that. In return they have used its proximity to attack, tunnel in, grab more and more, and still claim they were the ones being robbed.
If yours’ is a sincere question then my answer is sadly “Yes, I am saying that Israel is acting like a bully”. Israel is a powerful military giant. Israel is a colonizer and an occupier. According to Nelson Mandela, Israel has created apartheid worse than S. Africa’s. Israel receives billions in outside support. But as long as Israelis perceive themselves as small, helpless victims surrounded by threatening enemies and believes their whole purpose in life is to defend themselves, then they will never be safe or enjoy freedom or peace.
If you treated your next door neighbors with disdain, shot at them for walking on the sidewalk, had the audacity to build on their property, broke their car windows when they parked under your tree, and dumped your garbage on their front yard, would you really be surprised if they retaliated in any way they could?
I’m just saying, Israel has never thought about being a good neighbor because they have never recognized the Palestinians right to live on the land. Instead, Israelis perceive themselves as small and that justifies their actions. Israel COULD own their innate power to be fair and just peace makers.
Geography alone would show you the error in that point of view. It's a very tiny country, only about the size of New Jersey. Israel needs worldwide support to survive because their enemy is extremely cunning. I believe they have tried to make peace. Their adversary is pure evil. Terrorists with a stated agenda to kill all the Jews. Israel has no stated agenda to kill anybody, but they have to defend themselves. As I said, it's a tiny country, the one and only Jewish homeland, surrounded by 22 Arab countries with an element of terrorism that will not accept negotiating or diplomacy. They want to destroy Israel and turn the world's opinion against Israel through millions of dollars of propaganda. I can definitely see it is having an effect, when normally progressive, good people who want peace side with those monsters unwittingly.
Thank you for responding. I don’t wish to argue because my primary interest is in understanding how we humans can create peace in the world. Your beliefs are firm. If you should become more curious and desire to expand your views perhaps exploring more diverse history would offer a less insular perspective. “The Hundred Years War on Palestine” by Rashid Khalidi is a comprehensive account of the Israeli/Palestinian situation starting in the late 1890’s with the early talk about forming an Israeli state and through 2019. I found when understanding more of the factual details and the complex politics my compassion for all parties increased.
You are the kind of person that turns up on a newsletter like this because the author and people like Bernie Sanders give you free rein to spout your Jew hating ideology!
Israel has given Palestinians multiple opportunities for peace. Hamas doesn’t want peace. They’ve even stated they will repeat October 7 over and over, again. There charter is about killing Jews. If they don’t want the IDF in their neighborhood, they shouldn’t take hostages there!
Wow! I can see why "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" was a welcomed addition to the big book. But even an "eye for an eye" Lev 24:19-21 was a principle of justice that requires punishment equal in kind to the offense. So, if someone puts out another's eye, one of the offender's eyes should be put out, not tens of thousands of eyes. Practicing the golden rule could end this cycle of fear and retribution. But it takes kindness, not needing to be "right" all the time. I know that’s a challenge.
Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East.The Arabs and Muslims are represented by Monsour Abbas a member of the Israeli Knesset. Arabs represent 20% of the Israeli population.He is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, no fan of Israel's. How many Jews are represented in Palestine? How many Jews live in Palestine? Answer: Zero. Jews had to flee from Palestine with the clothes on their back.
I think you are missing the tragic element of the story. It's true the Arabs aren't completely innocent victims in this story. If they hadn't attacked Israel when it was first founded, it would not be as big as it is today. But the Palestinian people as a whole aren't responsible for this tragedy. There's a need to end the apartheid. Here is an organization of Israelis and Palestinians of goodwill who are working for a solution:
Skip, you definitely need to study history. Why was the Balfour Declaration signed in the first place? Answer: Jews were being slaughtered in pogroms all over Europe.. Chaim Weitzman, a world famous scientist who helped Churchill win WWII realized in the early 1900's there was no safe place in Europe for Jews to live. He prevailed upon his friendship with Lord Balfour in England to give the Jews back their biblical homeland in Palestine. The word biblical Palestine not the created Palestine that includes Lebanon and Jordan. The Palestine, Iran refers to didn't exist before 1948. I won't go through the Pico Agreement, The League of Nations agreement that all the our allies signed to prove my point, but YES Skip you need to review the history. You might want to consult the Jewish Virtual Library to get the facts which you clearly don't have. Spreading disinformation and innuendo serves no one.
You obviously haven’t studied how Israel started and the atrocities that have occurred. You are only studying the Israeli perspective. Try reading Jimmy Carter’s “Palestine, Peace not Apartheid” and Amnesty International report on the Israeli and Palestine activity. Why has the United Nations repeatedly criticized Israel and its treatment of Palestinians? We has repeatedly vetoed sanction against Israel. Try opening your eyes and mind and see the truth.
But you said that if Palestinian hadn’t attacked Israelis when it was formed. Israelis took homes, farm and towns without any compensation and slaughtered thousands in the process. Yes, it was done and in the past and Israel does exist. Knowing the history and truth helps understand why both sides react as they do.
I didn't really mean Palestinians attacked Israelis. I meant the Arab states. I actually think the whole identity of "Palestinians" as a people is kind of a result of being caught between the Israelis and the Arabs. Of course Palestinians are a kind of Arab, but they have a unique identity from being caught in the middle of these forces.
Ilan Pappe and other scholars, using Israel's own historical archives, have thoroughly documented what really happened in 1947-48 was an ethnic cleansing.
Just using the propaganda language of "apartheid" when referring to Israel shows a lack of understanding of what is really happening there. Keep in mind that Hamas and the surrounding Arab countries supporting them knew who Netanyahu was and how he would react. They hoped he would be forceful and aggressive in his defense of Israel so they could ignore the fact that they trapped civilians in a war zone and focus on whose weaponry killed them. Hamas and the surrounding Arab nations supporting them are solely responsible for these deaths. They are terrorists. They are not reasonable people you can simply reach through negotiation and diplomacy. They see human life as cheap, a means to an end. They alone are responsible for this death and destruction. Even during the cease fire this should have been obvious as we saw Israel releasing several times the number of prisoners as Hamas released innocent civilian hostages. The people in prison did something to be tried and convicted, serving their sentences, yet Israel released them trying to appease Hamas. Nothing will appease them except their written stated goal, to kill all the Jews.
The people are pawns. Try living in Putin's Russia or Iran's Hamas. Navalny is a good example of what happened when the the people speak up. Jon Carver, on this thread, wouldn't last a day if he lived there. That is what he is advocating on this thread. In his mind, Biden is the monster and the Green Party will save us all. It's the ravings of a lunatic1
Yes, Hamas could end the war immediately if they surrendered and stopped using their people as hostages and keeping funds from their own population, instead using it for weapons and for themselves in their tunnels under hospitals, schools, homes. They are to blame at least as much as Israel.
That is BS. Israel is very clearly trying to kill them all, push them into the sea, and take their land. They are now forgetting to not say it out loud. Trust what the Israeli government is saying, which is that they want the Palestinians gone and to take all their land.
Israel is not a democracy; it's a Jewish supremacist state. It exists for Jews and everyone else is a second class citizen. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have declared Israel to be an apartheid state. Hamas exists because of 75 years of Israeli oppression and subjugation of the indigenous Palestinian people. It is Israel that has cut off all food, water, medical supplies, electricity, etc. to a civilian population, and bombed and incapacitated every hospital in Gaza. War crimes all. A much better approach would have been targeted assassinations of those responsible for Oct. 7, but as others have pointed out, this is not about Hamas, but rather the ethnic cleansing of Gaza to allow for its annexation into Israel. Israel's been stealing Palestinian land and killing Palestinians since its inception.
Jews may consider that part of the world their homeland, but not everybody recognizes the Jewish god, and other people have lived in that same area for centuries. Palestinians had no say in the confiscation of their lands and homes to create Israel, never received compensation of any kind, and had nothing to do with the Holocaust.
Israel is the only reason there is a Palestine at all. Today's violence is all on Hamas/Arabs, not on Israel for defending itself. This is the issue I depart from Amnesty International on, because I believe they did not look into it deeply enough and have been affected by the millions of dollars spent on Arab propaganda painting themselves as victims of Israel. It's the other way around. The surrounding Arab countries could well afford to allow civilians to escape the war zone and Hamas could let them get out of the area they know Israel is about to attack instead of using them as shields. The land given to Palestine was on the condition they not use it to attack Israel. They broke the agreement. Israel does not owe them more land. Most people calling themselves Palestinians are actually from other Arab countries. Arafat was from Egypt. If Palestine allows terrorists to take over its government and indoctrinate Palestinian children that killing Jews is a holy thing to do to defend their supremacy in the middle east, they have lost any right they were given to any land near Israel. The two state solution would only work if there were not Arab terrorists involved, a network beyond just Hamas. I believe Golda Meier who I heard speak in San Francisco during the 80s at the Jewish Community Center. Israel has made every effort to make peace since it began.
These people casting Israel as an aggressor know that Palestine is surrounded by Arab countries that far exceed the land and population of Israel. Anyone who has eyes to read and ears to listen and uses any common sense knows this. They've been indoctrinated since birth by their families and church to suspect Jews of all stripes. The same thing happened in pre Nazi Germany. They're rooting for the annihilation of Jews so they don't have to acknowledge their leadership in all academic and cultural spheres of life. However, there is a quote from a Lutheran pastor that rhymes with history.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Let's face it: Israel is going to exist. Palestinians are not going to stop fighting for a better deal. We must come to terms with these realities. There's no evidence that surrounding Arab countries want the Palestinians. Palestinians and Israelis must coexist.
That's the thing. The Hamas Palestinians won't stop fighting because they are not reasonable. While they occupy Palestine with their stated goal to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel, how can diplomacy possibly work? You need two reasonable parties to negotiate, and we only have one, Israel. Then we have their millions of dollars in support from other Arab countries used to spread anti-Israeli propaganda rather than saving lives that could easily have been saved. Their propaganda is picked up by trusted news sources because there is money involved in getting it published and disseminated. People who usually don't fall for propaganda see it coming from sources they had always trusted, like Amnesty International who failed to dig deeper to get to the actual truth.
My question is what is Hamas? An organization that believes in killing all Jews! Why aren’t we blaming them? I have never been a Bibi fan since he mentored Trump and I saw his far right government try to eliminate the Palestinians in the West Bank! We have an obligation to support Israel. That does not mean we have to support Bibi! Call out who is really at fault all those who choose war over peace. Bring home the hostages! Make Hamas pay for using the Palestinian people as human shields! Time to stop using people as targets and come to some kind of deal! Peace Now!
Hamas could end the war immediately if they surrendered and stopped using their people as hostages and keeping funds from their own population, instead using funds for weapons and for themselves in their tunnels under hospitals, schools, homes. They are to blame at least as much as Israel. Please call them out, not just Israel!
You're not going to convince the diehard Manicheans on here, they've fallen completely for the idea that no Palestinian action is ever connected to any subsequent event, it's always going to turn out "Israel had a chance here and here and here and here to intervene, right after Hamas sited the missile platforms surrounding or inside mosques, hospitals, schools. apartment blocks, churches, shopping centers, and when they stole millions of donated humanitarian aid and used it for their Islamo-fascist death cult's prime directive, and when they lied about all of it, and when they launched over 10,000 more missiles at Israeli civilian targets SINCE October 7, 2023" etc.
I've been on the "Democratic Left" at least since I read Michael Harrington's book Toward a Democratic Left in high school in the 1960s, having a grandfather who was Speaker of the Iowa House of Representatives set me on that path as well, worked for years for various environmental and citizen action groups in the Twin Cities (MPIRG, Public Citizen, Citizens for a Better Environment, Minnesota COACT) and am far more comfortable with 95% plus of practically any specific political position formulated from that perspective. But here, I think the mania to condemn Israel *tout court* has become rabid, Netanyahu is a huge part of that, but the idea Israel can in any way, shape or form leave Hamas in charge of Gaza is absurd, and that needs to constantly be emphasized in all of these frenzied discussions.
Happy Mardi Gras anyway, it's crucial to laissez les bon temps roulez toujours, even now, maybe especially now, an prepare for determined nonviolent, legal , protracted resistance in case of a Trump victory as well. Not running for the exits, playing a "blame game," but protracted, determined resistance.
J.D., I've been waiting for someone of your stature and experience to finally make the most coherent post I've read so far. I tried to use history and facts to support Israel's actions, but it has fallen on mostly deaf ears. So far I've counted 5 supporters of Israel's situation and hundreds of people that know better defending the innocent Palestinian people and Hamas.
It's a depressing thought, however, as I read more comments I found an additional 10 defenders of Israel. I didn't get to the last comment so I don't know the total, however, over 700 comments made, it's still a depressing figure.
They are an organization who are fighting for the Palestinian people to no longer suffer under the horrible Israeli occupation. Where did you read that Hamas want to kill all Jews? They want their people to live with freedom and dignity. If anything, the barbaric genocide happening right now will only strengthen the resistance. Hamas is an ideology and the solution cannot happen militarily. The people in Palestine must no longer have to live under such horrible conditions. Google "Open Air prison"....
Huh their mission statement does not dedicate the destruction of Israel? Not a terrorist organization? Where do you get your information? You are right about one thing an organization that is responsible for using people as human shields is a wonderful thing? Does it matter that Hamas used the money they received to buy weapons and tunnels instead of invest in their people. I am not for bombing women and children. I am not for the destruction of any people. I do not believe at this current moment that there is any Palestinian leader to step up and negotiate with.
Unfortunately, a significant number of Americans do in fact still think this or apply different standards of empathy for Israelis and Palestinians. This bias has been a factor in American support for Israel for a long time.
So it was from the beginning of the European occupation of North America and the deeds perpetrated on indigenous people here. Same story, different centuries.
That's overly simplistic, as if there were not already a host of vicious inter-tribal wars, slavery, raids of rape and conquest, oppression of women, and much more in that sordid vein, long before any Europeans landed.
Have you ever studied how the Aztecs were regarded by their enslaved neighbors before Hernando Cortez arrived? It sure helps explain how less than 200 Conquistadors conquered a nation of several million! They made alliances with the Aztec's victims, naturally. Or why various Native American tribes aligned with the "invading colonists," based on past wars and blood feuds?
NONE of which can possibly " justify" any of the vicious ethnocentric maltreatment and outright genocide to which you refer, that goes without saying - for that, all we can do now is demand treaties be enforced and if possible, reparations designed and paid, as well as trying to get the federal government to respect native land and environmental concerns, inter alia.
"Only Euro-centrics say Aztec," LOL, please by all means become even more condescending and pointless, and the attempt to hook up the TORAH with Cortez (and his Native tribal allies rebelling against enslavement, too?!) is a perfect example of the sheer depths to which anti-Semites will go, whether "teaching at a tribal college," or not, whoopee, means less than nothing when you are pushing this gibberish, of course.
No way have you EVER published anything in any serious peer-reviewed academic journal expressing this kind of wacko attack on Jews disguised as a discussion of the Conquistadors in the territories where the AZTECS enslaved neighboring tribes, either.
But again: thanks for being so clueless, so lacking in self-awareness, makes it easy to see, no, it's not "Poe's Law" at work, it's not satire, this guy is serious!
Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.[1][2][3]
Richard, you are trying to speak to Jon as a rational human being. It's like speaking to tRump. Jon needs serious deprogramming. His divorce went to his head and colored his belief system. He also advocates voting for the Green party so he can overthrow the monster Biden. His words not mine.
Btw, 'trans-historical collective guilt" is used by fanatics to tar entire groups for deeds they did not perform by agents they do not know, said agents having died many years earlier, and which they might condemn, so even the fact I am a complete "heretic," {non-Christian, non-Jew} bears absolutely no relation to your paralogical tripe, Jon.
ANYONE encompassed by your deranged attack is equally unscathed - it would like blaming currently living descendants of the AZTECS for their ancestor's crimes, do you see how that works?
Seriously -you seem really unhinged, as if your free-floating sense of grievance and being some kind of "victim" dominates your every waking moment. Seek help, is my advice.
I am muting you on here - maybe the third time since 2009 I have ever done that, since you seem to be a complete waste of every possible motivation on my part to correct your multiple confusions, seething resentments, bigoted attitudes, and simplistic posts.
‘Deliberate withholding of food’ you say?? Did you read about the two elderly Israeli hostages that were freed by the IDF after, what…125 days?? The medicine that their families had sent down to Gaza for them was never given to them. It was withheld.
With all due respect, war is Hell, isn’t it? No one wins.
I don't know the ins and outs of the reasoning behind what drives a man to do what Netanyahu has done to the Palestinians. The citizens of Gaza are caught between a group of barbaric hostage taking savages and the vengeful will of a grieving society that wants its people back. There is no answer that doesn't require the letting of someone's blood. <Netanyahu evidently is doing his level best to find a just solution.>
What is driving him is that he faces jail time if he ever leaves office. So he has thrown his lot in with anyone who would join a coalition with him, regardless of how extreme and despicable, to save his own skin.
Ronnie--People don't realize it but our greatest gift that we here in these United States enjoy is the fact that we are geographically isolated from both Europe and Asia. Those two oceans have acted as a buffer zone and so far, it has kept us safe.
Donald, I just wrote to my republican congresswoman that we are no longer isolated. In the 1930s, Nazi Germany was far, far, away. Now we have to realize that Moscow is just across the Arctic Ocean, which is melting, which eventually will attract more settlers, people, cities. In other words, we really aren't isolated. Online you can find maps of the northern hemisphere without the distraction of longitude lines or the familiar distortion of those old-fashioned flat maps we all saw in seventh grade social studies classes. Living here in low-density Minnesota; we're wide open for a "warning" nuke.
Palestinians have a const just like we do in the United States, which says there will be no peace to all Israelis are dead. What are you gonna do about that now?
Hamas charter says it has nothing against the Jewish religion or Jews, but against the 75 year oppression and subjugation of the Palestinian people by Jews. That is why it exists and is supported by many Palestinians.
Margaret--That is the essence of the entire problem over there. Hamas will never rest until all the Jews are dead and the Christians have left. There is only one answer to that, get rid of all the influence that Hamas has.
Margaret--The people of Gaza are for the most part Palestinians, and they don't want war it's Hamas and they are inhumanly crazy. Sadly, Hamas has imbedded themselves within the civilian population which explains the huge number of calamities. There is no answer to the terrible realities found over there.
It's beyond vengeance. Hamas must be eradicated. They have stated they will do the same again and again. There is no choice but to eradicate them. Any country would do the same.
Robin--your solution is easy to think of but when considering the innocent people of Gaza, a problem arises. How to destroy one without killing the other.
Israel doesn’t get a pass to commit any and all war crimes it can dream up because someone took a handful of hostages once. That’s not how the laws of war work.
I'll tell you this altho my family thinks I'm out of my mind. Israeli intelligence received detailed plans of this attack sometime ago. According to what they said they thought, they ignored them as unlikely or impossible. I disagree. I think they took the plans very seriously. When Israeli intelligence received information that Hamas was practicing the attack a couple of months before, I think they decided to mousetrap Hamas. They let them attack knowing that there would be casualties but it gave the government a perfect excuse to wipe Gaza off the map. Otherwise, it's the biggest failure of Israeli intelligence and military ever. I'm very suspicious.
Funny that….as a nobody I have been saying this from the start. Mossad is one of the world's best intelligence groups. No WAY they didn't know what was coming! I bet Netanyahu decided it was a perfect opportunity to take over the whole of the land and incorporate it. I would put nothing past any of the leaders out there.
Carol, you're correct until you state your conclusions. Netanyahu ignored the intelligence because he faced jail time. He needed a get-out-of jail free card and in his self absorption thought the invasion would be a simple skirmish that he could overcome. He failed and he has blood on his hands. He deserves to go to prison as tRump does!
Carol,Israeli intelligence knew for a year that Hamas was massing their troops around the southern border. I differ with your conclusion. Netanyahu needed a get out of jail card as tRump needs here. He never thought it would result in a full scale war. He thought the IDF was capable of putting down any rebellion from Hamas because they were successful in 13 previous operations. He was willing to take the chance with Israeli lives at stake. He must face the consequences of his actions.
I watched Jon Stewart today. It was so good and sooo funny, I watched it three times. I realized Biden's best defense is to make fun of himself and to laugh at and humiliate Trump. Instead he's too often on the defense. People respond to humor a lot better than they do to fear. Ask his staff to write some decent jokes for him. We all need to laugh a little.
Why are conservatives calling for the end of American democracy? At the CPAC meeting this week, a well-known rightwing influencer, Jack Posobiec, went off on a rant about how important it is for conservatives to band together to end democracy in America and, presumably, replace it with Christofascism like in Russia. “Welcome to the end of democracy!” he declared. “We’re here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6th, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here,” he said as he held up a cross. “That’s right, because all glory is not to government, all glory to God.” This, frankly, should not be surprising. It was 1951 when Russell Kirk, the godfather of the modern conservative movement, published his book The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot in which he laid out the importance of “classes and orders” in society. (I detailed Kirk extensively in The Hidden History of American Oligarchy.) The middle class was growing like a weed back then — this was before Reagan kneecapped the labor movement — and Kirk warned that if too many people got into the middle class and were no longer “the fearful poor” that there’d be chaos in America. He warned that women would no longer respect their husbands, racial minorities would forget their “rightful place” in the social order, young people would defy their parents, and society would go to hell. The solution, dictated back in the late 1700s by British conservative Edmund Burke, was to gut the middle class and return to the “normal” social form of a small number of really rich people at the top, a tiny middle class of doctors, lawyers, and professionals who served the morbidly rich, and a massive class of the working poor. This was the world
Charles Dickens wrote about in almost all of his novels, and, when the 1960s happened and women, students, and minorities rose up in protest, became the world that Reaganomics was established to return us to. Gutting the middle class, eliminating the social safety net, and “restoring order” to society is still the conservative mantra, now heavily overlaid with rightwing Christian ideology. So Posobiec’s proclamation that it’s time to replace democracy with strongman authoritarianism should surprise exactly nobody.
Netanyahu's horrible conduct may well cost Biden re-election, because of Biden's refusal to get tough. Shame on Biden, but U.S. voters need to keep in mind that this is exactly what Netanyahu wants. He hates Biden and would love to see Trump back in power. So the tragic irony is that if progressives don't vote for Biden to punish him, Netanyahu and Trump are the clear winners. Sadly, voting out Biden will NOT help the Palestinians. Au contraire. The Israeli right wing lobby is hugely powerful in the U.S. I just hope Biden gets pissed off enough to finally stand up to Netanyahu.
From who, exactly? You can't expect Hamas to care if they aren't funded - they've stolen hundreds of millions of "humanitarian aid," Israel isn't going to be able to negotiate a permanent ceasefire with Hamas or Islamic Jihad or the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, so expect this to continue UNTIL the Palestinians themselves eject the terrorists (also their enablers in the Palestinian Authority), DEMAND elections - notice Hamas hasn't allowed them since 2007, and the PA same thing - they're dictatorships.
None of this will help the victims on either side, but if it makes some of "we progressive leftists" feel good to vent, so be it.
Please by all means keep digging that hole deeper, the outright anti-Semitic bilge is a surefire winner, JC!
You people purveying open Jew-hatred are filth, it doesn't fool ANYONE* paying attention that you gloat about the mass murder of Jews and are outraged that Jews finally have a state that defends itself, unique in world history for the some sixteen million Jews on the planet!
When I as a non-Jew can see through this despicable garbage, you know you're in trouble - well, you would if you had the political nous and requisite functioning moral compass that is.
1) Writing at Newsweek, John Spencer explains why ‘Hospitals Are Protected Under International Law. But They Cannot be ‘Off Limits’’.
“As a basic principle of the international law of armed conflict—as well as basic humanity—attacks against civilian sites are prohibited, unless, for example, those civilian sites are used for military purposes. On top of the standard protection of civilian objects, hospitals have a special level of protection under international law, given that they are places of sanctuary. Those in need of medical attention should be able to receive it without fear or danger.
That is also why international law specifically requires that hospitals not be used to shield military objectives from attack, for example, if a hospital is used for “interference, direct or indirect, in military operations, such as the use of a hospital as a shelter for able-bodied combatants or fugitives, as an arms or ammunition store, as a military observation post, or as a center for liaison with combat forces,” per the U.S. Department of Defense law of war manual. Such uses can lead to a hospital losing its protected status.”
*******
And THIS** is what people as lost and confused as you need to take on board, I am very much "on the democratic Left" and consider you a constant source of either hilarity at the lame failed insults, or stunned amazement that you actually think you have the "moral high ground"!
Thank you Richard for saying it like it is. They'd rather live under a Christ/Fascist dictator like Putin. They are part of the Mike Johnson and Tucker Carlson crowd trying to overthrow our democracy. Jon Carver needs serious medical attention. He has no grip on reality!
Jon you sound like the leader of a terrorist organization. I believe you need to be in a psychiatric hospital.
Thom Hartmann
"Why are conservatives calling for the end of American democracy? At the CPAC meeting this week, a well-known rightwing influencer, Jack Posobiec, went off on a rant about how important it is for conservatives to band together to end democracy in America and, presumably, replace it with Christofascism like in Russia. “Welcome to the end of democracy!” he declared. “We’re here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6th, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here,” he said as he held up a cross. “That’s right, because all glory is not to government, all glory to God.” This, frankly, should not be surprising. It was 1951 when Russell Kirk, the godfather of the modern conservative movement, published his book The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot in which he laid out the importance of “classes and orders” in society. (I detailed Kirk extensively in The Hidden History of American Oligarchy.) The middle class was growing like a weed back then — this was before Reagan kneecapped the labor movement — and Kirk warned that if too many people got into the middle class and were no longer “the fearful poor” that there’d be chaos in America. He warned that women would no longer respect their husbands, racial minorities would forget their “rightful place” in the social order, young people would defy their parents, and society would go to hell. The solution, dictated back in the late 1700s by British conservative Edmund Burke, was to gut the middle class and return to the “normal” social form of a small number of really rich people at the top, a tiny middle class of doctors, lawyers, and professionals who served the morbidly rich, and a massive class of the working poor. This was the world
Charles Dickens wrote about in almost all of his novels, and, when the 1960s happened and women, students, and minorities rose up in protest, became the world that Reaganomics was established to return us to. Gutting the middle class, eliminating the social safety net, and “restoring order” to society is still the conservative mantra, now heavily overlaid with rightwing Christian ideology. So Posobiec’s proclamation that it’s time to replace democracy with strongman authoritarianism should surprise exactly nobody."
Tom Friedman is mistaken about the timing. Israel has already transformed itself into as "global pariah".
There is no option but to vote for Biden, but planted leaks aside, anyone who has spent 5 minutes studying Netanyahu could have predicted exactly how he would react.
As with Trump, Netanyahu will destroy Israel to save himself.
Thank you for the comparison to Trump.
The hardest thing about providing wise and effective counsel to an ally is that it must be done quietly and privately. There is no possibility that publicly condemning and threatening Benjamin Netanyahu and his far-right supporters will change their behavior in the slightest.
In fact, it's more likely to embolden him. It would feed directly into his narrative of victimhood: standing up to American pressure, defying all who question Israel's right to defend itself.
President Biden is displaying the fruits of his decades of experience in diplomacy. He balances just enough public reprimand with intense private pressure in order to maximize the possibility of influencing the decisions of another sovereign State's leader.
Secretary Of State Blinken has made multiple trips throughout the Mid-East, working tirelessly to coordinate an international response leading to a cease-fire. It's the easiest thing in the world to shout condemnation from the rooftops, proclaiming one's own moral superiority. But getting down into the trenches to negotiate meaningful solutions is a long, hard slog.
By the way, why do we never hear any of the morally righteous critics call for Hamas to surrender? After coordinating and executing a horrendous assault on civilians, and then suffering a crushing military response, Hamas could bring an immediate end to all the suffering by simply laying down their arms and returning the hostages. That's how wars typically end. The failure of Hamas to accept defeat is what prolongs the conflict.
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How about not enabling them with no-strings-attached billions?
Lily, I assume "them" means Israel. I agree.
But unlike Ukraine, Israel's military is not dependent on our assistance. I'm pretty sure that attaching conditions to any future American aid to Israel is part of the diplomatic conversations currently underway. It certainly is being advocated by Senator Bernie Sanders and others.
Ridiculous. Most of Israel's weapons are US supplied. We are complicit in this horrible genocide. We supply 37 percent of the weapons to the world. Our shells in recent "aid" are blowing us Palestinian civilians and children right now. https://geoffreydeihl.substack.com/p/will-the-war-in-israel-take-down
Geoffrey, I don't disagree with your facts.
What I said is that, unlike Ukraine, Israel is not dependent on our assistance. While our annual contribution of military aid to Israel is in the $3 - $5 billion range, the cost of the Gaza operation, now 4 months long, is in the $65 - $70 billion range. And I don't hear any begging from Mr. Netanyahu over the delay in Congress of a few billion more or less.
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Jerry - Israel is dependent on a continuous flow U.S. military aid. Of course they are.
Jerry, Israel is a bit smaller than Vermont with GDP of about $488 billion whereas VT has a GDP of about $40 billion. They both get about the same annual US federal funding of about $3 billion after VT pays federal fees and taxes. However, Israel is getting additional US aid for the current Israeli war such as the $14 billion voted on now in Congress. All federal funding to U.S. states is conditional. Israel has gotten more annual funding than any other foreign nation for many years. What’s wrong with this picture? A small wealthy foreign nation gets more unconditional support than most, maybe all of our individual states?
What's wrong with this picture? I'm not sure I understand the question, David. But I guess for starters, there's nothing remotely comparable about the two examples.
Vermont is a State with a mostly rural population of less than 650,000, ninety percent of whom are of the same ethnic origin. It occupies about one-quarter of 1% of the most powerful country in the world, and borders another enormously large country which is a close and friendly ally. The State has two national guard units, with a total of about 4000 members.
Israel is itself a sovereign nation with a vastly diverse population of more than 9.5 million, over 90 percent of whom live in cities. The country is surrounded by hostile neighbors, several of whom are committed to its total destruction. The Israeli military numbers over 600,000 active and reserve members, with land, sea and air forces boasting an array of tanks, artillery submarines, patrol ships, fighter jets, and attack helicopters -- as well as nuclear weapons.
As our most steadfast ally in the region, Israel's security is vital to our own. The nature and amount of American aid granted to Israel has evolved over many decades and is exceedingly complex. A substantial portion of it is mandated by the 1979 peace treaty with Egypt, brokered by the United States.
To say simply that our support is "unconditional" is not really accurate, as it implies the aid is just handed over in the form of a single financial transaction. That's not how it works.
I kind of get the point you're trying to make, but the premise of your final question is also not really accurate.
This is already a long answer, and there's much more to say on the subject. However, the comments section of Robert Reich's newsletter isn't really the best place for a lengthy conversation. Please feel free to write to me directly here: JerryWeiss@Substack.com
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Can Biden do it on his own?
What, make Hamas declare a unilateral ceasefire, immediately release all their kidnap victims, and save thousands of Palestinian lives?
Well he could try...
No. Congress controls the purse strings.
Not by Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, or by Biden himself! The Senate just allocated billions more for Israel. If Johnson can get it thru the House, he'll send it.
^^^^^^^
THIS is a "mainstream" Palestinian point of view, incredibly enough - their populations have been brainwashed for decades, this kind of stuff was and maybe still is taught to ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS via cartoons and introductory reading lessons.
In UNRWA schools, I kid you not, no pun intended!
Teddy Roosevelt had it right: "Speak softly AND carry a big stick." It's long past time Biden got out the big stick because all talking softly is getting him is Netanyahu's middle finger and a good chance of losing the election to Trump, who will make it worse.
1) Stop giving Israel money and weapons; if that doesn't work
2) Sanction Netanyahu, Ben Gvir, Smotrich, and their parties.
How about demanding HAMAS (1) declare a unilateral ceasefire, thus saving tens of thousands of Palestinian lives, (2) release all their kidnap victims and (3) subject themselves to the exact same "war crimes investigations" being arranged for Israel Defense Force military who actually commit war crimes?
Sounds fair enough, or is it supposed to be ONLY Israel's responsibility to take account of the fastest way to save Palestinians from accidental deaths, since obviously Israel will keep acting in legal self-defense, as long as Hamas keeps fighting - they have shot over 15,000 missiles, drones, and mortars at Israel since October 7, with plenty exploding inside Gaza and killing and/or maiming Palestinian civilians.
Doesn't bother Hamas in the least, of course.
I'd be totally in favor of it as long as you add in Israel's releasing the thousands of Palestinians (including Palestinian-Israeli citizens) being held--often without charge--in Israeli prisons AND, if the ICJ decides that Israel is illegally occupying Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights, Israel agrees to withdraw and withdraw its settlers from them.
However, if Hamas did 1 & 2, I doubt they'd survive long enough for 3.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_peace_process
^^^^^ At least read this, you seem to have little comprehension of the various contending Palestinian factions, for one thing - with WHOM is Israel going to negotiate? Who is legit? etc. etc.
And your formulation here is puzzling:
"However, if Hamas did 1 & 2, I doubt they'd survive long enough for 3."
And even appears to me at least, to be incoherent - are you REALLY suggested that an internationally designated gang of terrorist thugs who murder their own internal opposition, who have a charter openly calling for genocide, that is, the complete destruction and abolition in any form of the State of Israel "on Arab lands," , which they have never renounced, which routinely has for over a decade used their own civilians as human shields, launching unguided missiles INTO civilian territory FROM civilian territory - the so-called "triple war crime" - is some kind of entity whose preservation concerns you? Why? And even if that's granted - "It is not at all barbaric to be concerned about preserving Hamas and its many laudable works and policies," - do you really expect Israel to negotiate PEACE with them, as if Hamas is going to engage in arm's length bargaining in good faith, and live up to their agreements?
NO ONE is that gullible, so you must be getting at something else, which I confess eludes me, though.
That's also the main point of demanding a unilateral ceasefire from these criminal mass murdering fiends - that they ARE, in fact, fairly and accurately described as (1) Criminals, specifically war criminals, but also thieves on a mass scale who have looted humanitarian aid intended for the human shields, er human sacrifices - the long-suffering "innocent civilians" hypocritically cited by the marchers as a major one of their concerns (hah et hah! encore to that!), (2) Mass murderers - murder, defined as "unjustified killing," so they're that unless you're ready to go all in on lauding the terrorists* and dismissing their 2400 victims who were killed, some at a freakin' music festival, think about the contrasting irony of that; "fiends," well, will "monstrous rapists and murderers on a mass scale" not satisfy the vernacular definition of "fiendish behavior," if not, why not?
* We might also debate the "one man's (person's) terrorist is another man's (person's) freedom fighter" set of multiple incoherent concepts packed into one bogus claim - it reduces to absolute epistemological nihilism if you try to apply it systematically, because every single time someone simply changes their mind about, for example, Mr. X being a "freedom fighter," perhaps because of acquiring more information about X, which was already widely available, but previously unknown to them, X "becomes" ex hypothesi, a terrorist! It's downright occult, and not in any harmless, benign sense of investigating "The Beyond," either!
And the reverse is also true - of course, you can always make the preposterous claim that no possible set of criteria can possibly be assembled to describe either "terrorism" or "fighting for freedom," but working out the consequences of that is also a path to - nihilism. NOTHING, no matter what it is, that anyone or any group can ever do, can ever be "terrorism" or fighting for freedom. How plausible is that - your profile has you as an English prof., you must have encountered this or similar issues in textual hermeneutics already, correct? Well, here it is again!
LOL, what, a mass release of terrorists, not even a case-by-case review with public hearings and the international press watching?
I love it that people are so incredibly gullible, they actually BELIEVE Israel simply arrests the rando GOOD and INNOCENT Palestinian, claps him in prison for nothing at all, and thus the whole system is corrupted by the EVIL Israelis! Brilliant!
Now cite a specific case, and we can get somewhere, is that fair? \
And you MUST not understand how the wars ended - and continued - since GAZA, for example, was exiting by Israel many years ago; while the West Bank and the Golan is disputed territory precisely because there is NO PARTNER ELECTED BY THE PALESTINIANS TO EVEN RECEIVE THE WEST BANK AND GOLAN - where were the magical peace negotiations that happened while the world slept, Maureen?
The ones YOU evidently know about? The ones necessary for recognition under international law, where the Palestinians finally ACCEPT a peace offer?
Do you even know how many they have rejected over the years?
Look, you're online, you have a search browser, you even have the approximate search terms: "Palestinians reject peace settlement with Israel"!
This is simply a very different reality from that which you believe, I think - and since we are likely BOTH solidly on the progressive democratic Left (I have moved right a bit, from my Trotskyist phase, though!) except on this set of extremely complex issues, it's extremely annoying for both of us, I suppose.
We both likely want patriarchal capitalism drastically reformed and then ENDED a.s.a.p., albeit we don't want all the thousands and even millions of small businesses "expropriated by the State for the benefit of the working class" or some similar malarkey - just very drastic reforms, such that it can be transformed into something human and egalitarian, "Economics as if people mattered," to quote E.F. Schumacher - "Buddhist economics," if you will.
But back to the I/P disputes: you search, you read, you return after that and present your results, and I either agree or I don't, same with some mythical "innocent Palestinian being held without charges who did nothing" etc. etc.
Too bad it won't happen.
Jerry - Like you, I have to believe that intense private pressure is being applied to the situation. Aid has to be allowed in, and massive UN support for the Palestinian families who are now without homes, food, sanctuary. The assault has to stop -in some form - for humanitarian restructuring on the ground.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-presents-plan-for-evacuation-of-rafah-gets-approval-for-aid-to-south-gaza/?utm_source=The+Daily+Edition&utm_campaign=daily-edition-2024-02-26&utm_medium=email
Jerry Weiss... And capitulating to Israel's control over Palestinians... ? Israel will not stop. Along with laying down arms the fighters would have to lie down on the broken roads for Israeli tanks to roll over them. Netanyahu has been LOUD and CLEAR.
Hamas was founded as a movement to resist the occupation and the raw deals being "offered" the Palestinians time and again. Over time its strongest moral and practical outside support came from more and more radical Islamists. Biased, deaf, and blind US policy didn't bother to honor the UN resolutions that specified the Right of Return or the creation of a state, or to do more than put humanitarian bandaids on the open wound of the Palestinians' situation. The only thing Palestinians have had left -- besides dependence on outside assistance-- has been their suffering at the hands of Israel and Hamas' resistance.
Give up fighting -- for what? !!
FR, I fully appreciate your passionate response. And I have no argument with the facts as you present them, although many pertinent other facts went un-mentioned. Most of us here are well-aware of the history, and the oft-repeated arguments.
So attempting to expand the breadth of imagined possibilities is a worthwhile endeavor. That's why I've also suggested that Israel foreswear military action in favor of a massive aid and development program. As we know, neither that nor a Hamas surrender are currently under consideration.
The only immutable certainty is that what's been done again and again leads only to more of the same. The far right in Israel, with their claim to all the land from the river to the sea, will never succeed in driving Palestinians out of their homeland any more than Palestinians will succeed in destroying the Jewish State. At some point, there's only mutual destruction or mutual co-existence.
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Jerry - Right! - So, what must Hamas do? Given the appalling history of biased decisions against the Palestinians and broken promises to them, what is your realistic conclusion?
I'd suggest that, once the war is over, Israel must do exactly what you say - turn into a generous neighbour. Create a Palestinian state. Then, and only then, will Hamas join the mainstream and accept Israel's existence.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-presents-plan-for-evacuation-of-rafah-gets-approval-for-aid-to-south-gaza/?utm_source=The+Daily+Edition&utm_campaign=daily-edition-2024-02-26&utm_medium=email
Jerry - My conclusion is the rank oppsite to yours. It is ONLY though public condemnation of Netanyahu that Israel's war on the Gaza Strip will end. Private pressure on him will not do the trick - N. can simply pretend he's not under pressure from Joe Biden, and continue the war. Public pressure from the U.S. would add to the public pressure put on N. from most of the world - but it would be more meaningful because it would lock Biden into a position that says, "If you don't cease and desist, we will cut all military aid!" As things stand at the moment, private pressure does not commit Biden to an ultimatum if N. refuses to cooperates.
Respectfully, Gunnar, we just disagree here. It's my opinion that public ultimatums have the disadvantage of precluding other options if the ultimatum is disregarded. And since conceding to an ultimatum is generally seen as weak, being public makes it more likely to be disregarded.
Last December, the Wall Street Journal published a story implying that Mr. Netanyahu had deferred to President Biden in some way, and the Prime Minister immediately declared: "This is not true. Israel is a sovereign state. Our decisions in the war are based on our operational considerations, and I will not elaborate on that.”
Unlike Ukraine, where our aid is indispensable, Israel is not totally dependent on us. While it would be significant, cutting our military aid would be unlikely to end Israel's Gaza operation. The country is an economic and military powerhouse, ranked among the top 20 in the world. Not to mention that it is one of only nine to have nuclear weapons.
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Jerry - Well, if Biden were to say to Netanyahu, "If you don't cease and desist, we will cut all military aid!" - this would excert more pressure on N. because, within 3 weeks, Israel would be forced to call off its genocidal war against the civilians in the Gaza Strip for lack of defensive military hardware - perhaps especially anti-missile missiles. The Israeli government's political credibility rests on its ability to protect its own population. It has failed once - in Oct last year - so, if its retaliatory collective punishment in the Strip were to lead to a significant weakening of its Iron Dome, it would be the second time that N. will have failed to protect his own people, and N. would see his political support evaporate.
Personally, I think it's odd that the group of advisors around Biden haven't realised what they are up against. Millions have marched in support of Palestine - and they count as voters in the next elections everywhere - whilst Ukraine is suffering from chronic shortages of ammunition, drones, and precision missiles. It could be said that Israel's and the U.S.'s war against Palestine is a lost cause in terms of international politics whereas the war against Russia in Ukraine is still seen by the 'international community' as justified.
But it appears that Biden feels locked into his current two wars-by-proxy policy. I wonder why. Maybe the U.S. depends on Israeli intelligence gathering. I don't know.
Or maybe the number '2' has some kind of magic, talismanic meaning to the U.S. government: they seem to want to fight both Russia and China, preferably at the same time. One can only wonder where their strategic studies experts are hiding. Is it really possible that the Biden administration is blind and deaf to private warnings against fighting two enemies at once - without conscription? Have they forgotten Vietnam, and have they already forgotten Afghanistan?
Well Gunnar, I can only repeat my earlier opinion that public ultimatums are self-defeating. As to the details you mention, the total portion of the aid package designated for Iron Dome and Beam is $5.2 billion. Given that the Gaza operation is already costing about $15 billion per month, it certainly appears that Israel isn't too worried about running out of money.
I'm inclined to think that President Biden and his advisors are well aware of "what they're up against." There's every indication of serious efforts being made by high-ranking cabinet-level officers making multiple trips to the region.
More importantly, the president's team is seeking a more comprehensive resolution than just achieving a temporary cease-fire. Thomas Friedman at the NYTimes thinks so too: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/31/opinion/biden-iran-israel.html
Mr. Friedman reports on an emerging three-track strategy that includes a response to Iranian and proxy attacks on U.S.forces, recognition of a Palestinian State, and a security alliance with Saudi Arabia that involves Saudi normalization of relations with Israel.
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How about cutting monetary support as the commander in chief. Why can’t he take the reins there?
Because he is bought and paid for.
Your in-passing "by the way," as if you see clearly in pointing to a solution that is readily available, is awesomely naive.
Suzanne, I understand why someone may think the idea of Hamas surrendering is "awesomely naive". But it surprises me that you, in particular, would characterize it in such a way.
Let me assure you that I harbor no expectation that such a thing will happen. That would be awesomely naive. But suggesting it is certainly no more naive than suggesting that everyone in every time zone observe a minute of silence at noon to focus on world peace.
These suggestions are not intended to be implemented, but only to expand the parameters of our thinking, as you have long advocated. Here's another suggestion that I wrote on October 13, as Israeli military forces were massing for the attack on Gaza:
"I'm reminded of the outstanding example of the families of Black victims at the 2015 church shootings. While condemning Dylan Roof's actions they offered forgiveness. Obviously, this is not really analogous in any way, except that my first impulse is always to look for an alternative to greater violence.
Imagine if instead of a vengance-driven orgy of destruction and misery, a massive influx of food and medical supplies along with economic development aid were undertaken. Imagine new schools and hospitals, infrastructure projects like roads and seaport facilities. How long would terrorist organizations hold sway when the Jewish State becomes the benefactor rather than the enemy?
At some point, there's only mutual destruction or mutual co-existence. Far better that the superior force, the one with a claim to moral authority as the chosen people of HaShem, should choose peace and forgiveness at this moment. The effect would be monumental and history altering."
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Jerry, I so appreciate your response here. Yes. Were Israel to muster the enormous strength and psychic/emotional discipline necessary to take the moral high ground and lead by example of aiding Palestinians, rather than obliterating them in the pursuit of also dismantling Hamas, then the Palestinians could look up to Israel and abandon Hamas, which doesn’t care one whit for its citizens. It sure appears that Israel has squandered this opportunity to be a country that leads by example. How are we any better than the very group we seek to destroy? Hate met with hate only produces more hate. It’s very, very sad.
Retaliation was certain for the underlying deep need for the world's recognition of the Palestinian's subjugated state. Surender would be like the US letting Japan keep going after Pearl Harbor. It would end the war but leave them worse off than when they it started, willing to suffer for their freedom.
When the Russians were amassed, ready to invade Ukraine, I was suggesting that the Ukrainians feed the line-up so it would feel to Russians like killing family if they proceeded.
Naive to do a project where everyone in every time zone observed a minute of silence at noon to focus on world peace? How so?
I'm sorry, Suzanne, but I'm unclear about the meaning of your statement: "Retaliation was certain for the underlying deep need for the world's recognition of the Palestinian's subjugated state."
Did you mean that that the October 7 attack was retaliation for Israel's treatment of Palestinians, or that Israel's attack on Gaza is retaliation for the October 7 attack? Either way, Palestinian subjugation is already broadly recognized around the world. Another round of violence is in no way necessary or helpful.
My larger point is that this eternal cycle of retaliations will never produce a peaceful resolution. Therefore, one side or the other will eventually have to do the unexpected.
In my opinion, Israel as the more powerful party, should have responded to October 7 in a more creative way than just once again resorting to an orgy of violence. But since they have not, a Hamas surrender coupled with a coordinated supportive alliance of the U.S. and Arab States could be a foundation for ending the retaliatory cycle.
A better analogy than Pearl Harbor would be Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Like Gaza, the country was being demolished. Had the Japanese emperor refused to surrender, the war would have continued and countless more lives lost. By surrendering, Japan was able to rebuild and within a generation become a world economic power.
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Jerry, you're fighting against human nature. When one is attacked, the human response is to survive, not give aid and comfort to your enemy. That's what you seem to be asking for. If I punched you in the face, would you welcome me with open arms?
You are not wrong, Eadie. In simple terms, punching back is the natural response to being punched. But the situation here is far more complex. This is not the first punch, nor even the hundredth punch. This is an endless cycle of punch and counter-punch, between two vastly mis-matched opponents -- a cycle that will never be resolved until one party does something different.
My point is that Israel, as the more powerful combatant, is better positioned to act with restraint. There is more to be gained by nourishing a partnership with the next generation of Palestinians rather than follow the current course, which will only insure their eternal contempt.
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Jerry - So, when you say, "Let me assure you that I harbor no expectation that such a thing will happen. That would be awesomely naive" - are you agreeing with Suzanne, after all? It seems that you are implying that both she and you are being 'naive'.
Gunnar -- By using the word "that" three times in two sentences, I've inadvertently misled you. Sorry.
It would be awesomely naive to expect that a Hamas surrender will happen. Since I have no such expectation, I'm not implying my own naïveté. Likewise, I'm not implying that Suzanne is naive.
What I am saying is that expanding the parameters of our thinking is a worthwhile endeavor, one that we both advocate.
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Hamas cares nothing for human lives. Not even their own.
If we don’t want them to bomb, we certainly shouldn’t be giving them money to do it. Withhold the money send it to Ukraine instead but will do some good I don’t think the aid will get to the Palestinians and what difference does it make if he’s going to continue to bomb and kill them. When the bombing stops give aid to the Palestinians, meanwhile, give it to the Ukrainians
Biden is a slkillful diplomat? Ask 26,000 dead Palestinians. Oh wait. It's too late. He has already signed all the bills funding death and destruction across the globe while we sit here in peace. I guess it could be worse. But when radical Arabs casually stroll across the border and get retribution for our support for Bibi's genocide don't act surprised.
And Jews will be hated all over the world and for not speaking out.
We are speaking out. Robert Reich points out that he is Jewish.
Not in our name.
https://images.app.goo.gl/hRGddMzLkTzJ1Zsk8
And every news story makes me say “this is not my Judaism.” What happened to Tikkun Olam? What is Israel destroying not repairing. I’m so sick.
Too fucking late
I don't think so. Jewish activists were among the first people to sign scholars', writers' and artists' letters of protest and demonstrate against the Israeli actions in Gaza, giving courage to others. Masha Gessen, Omar Bartov, and Nan Goldin are just a few prominent examples. Of course, these pro Israel groups that conflate support for the Israeli government with Judaism have a different effect.
Among the people I should have mentioned are Jewish Voice for Peace and American Jews active in Code Pink as well. These were among the first groups to demonstrate against the Israeli siege and bombardment in Gaza.
Ma nishtanah halailah hazeh
Absolutely!
hal yukhbiruna al'asdiqa'
We are ready are for just being Jews.
Already are
The only way that Trump can win is if Biden is his opponent.
Not true. Trump’s big mouth is causing him to make more enemies; his shocking, TREASONOUS NATO/Putin statements, his snarling question of Nikki Haley’s husband whereabouts (where is HIS wife?), and his threats and warnings to Taylor Swift for starters. President Biden will win.
My answe to another's response goes for your thoughts, too:
https://robertreich.substack.com/p/children-in-gaza-why-arent-we-stopping/comment/49492131
We all know what a HOAX the Republicans’ concern about the border are. Johnson refused any aide to Ukraine without a deal. Biden called his bluff, created a BI-PARTISAN bill and before it was even put on the floor for a vote, because Trump wants to KEEP the immigration crisis and not solve it for his election platform, Johnson declared the bill was dead. He also said any immigration bill can now wait until 2025. All of a sudden, it is no longer urgent.
The question of Republicans' sincerity on the border issue is different from the question of whether they can successfully paint Biden as a gross failure on this issue as part of their campaign. There is a real threat to Democrats here, as long as Biden is on the ticket.
Do you want Trump to win?
Biden won by 8 million Votes last time over an "incumbent President". Now he is the incumbent. He can only loose if his actions are treasonous or lead the USA into a recession and right now, that is not the case.
The risk is that he loses Michigan because the Muslim community only votes down ballot and not for Biden. That makes every other competitive state more important.
But it’s not just Muslims who are furious with Biden about this. Young people and people of color are also turning against him.
And those of us who oppose Biden’s unconditional support for Netanyahu and his extremist government. It seems unthinkable to vote for a president who has supported the destruction of Gaza and the slaughter of Palestinian civilians. If only Biden would step aside to save American democracy.
What would you think Trump would have done if he had been re-elected in 2020? He would have listened to his advisors and done nothing as well. At least Biden is trying to get a cease fire and get hostages released. Israel experienced. a 9/11 moment and everyone was behind Israel getting back at Hamas just like we did on 9/11 until we went into Iraq looking for "weapons of mass destruction". Israel has gotten its pound of flesh and is now committing a genocide of Palestine. Donald Trump had the Muslim ban and is cozy with Netanyahu but what would he have done?
Absolutely. To think otherwise is mental.
YES!
I respectfully disagree. This time around, most Americans think Biden is too old. Biden's evident mental decline has the effect of masking Trump's own decline. Trump's age would be an issue if it wasn't for Biden.
In addition, if Biden is NOT the candidate, then Trump can't run against Biden's record on immigration, which is central to Trump's election strategy.
Our Presient is only 4 -ish yrs older than the prior president. Biden is also intelligent & LOVES OUR USA & Democracy.
I am inclined to think that you are deluded.
How about Burnie Sanders?
You may think all you want. I believe you are misguided.
I will not be voting for Biden again
You prefer fascism?
Biden has been a tool of our current "soft fascist" political order. Tiny Delaware is basically a suburb of Wall Street.
So you are voting for Trump either directly or indirectly.
One of Trump's biggest fear is that he age-vulnerable. A younger, youthful, well-spoken man (probably white) from middle america could crater all his plans. Right now Dems are depressed with the age of their candidate....but more depressed by Fascist Trump.
Of all the candidates who fit the bill, Steve Breshears, the concept of Gov of Kentucky likely scares the bejesus out of Trump.
Also worth mentioning are Gov. Gavin Newsom of California and Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington.
Marianne Williamson needs to be President. She was made invisible by our "bought" media but she is there, is well informed about our major issues and has powerful responses/solutions, is published, highly intelligent, energetic, and the right leader for these times!
I'd vote for Marianne Williamson before Biden, and I'll agree that she "got deleted" by the news media, same as Tulsi Gabbard in 2020.
Marianne Williamson is a fruitcake.
How so?
Yes, but both are older and more liberal. Although I'd be happy with either
Andy Beshear. I like him a lot, too. Also Jay Inslee of WA.
John - In a nutshell: Yes!
🤡
Nope--a vote for Biden is no different than a vote for Trump. He is even worse as he pretends to be humanist and people centered when in fact, like Trump, he is totally corporate and always has been.
I'm sorry, but that's nonsense.
I don't have the luxury of refusing to vote or voting 3rd party...too many people would suffer under a GOP theocracy, too many women would die under a national abortion ban, too many children would be denied a public education, too many seniors would be left destitute.
My vote won't be the one that opens the door to fascism, no matter how much I despise this administration's impotent response to Netanyahu.
Both Parties are promoting fascism so there is no difference. And Biden/Centrist Dems are not impotent--they are promoting their core policies while pretending to bend a very wee bit to the massive public pressure being placed on them. Remember Israel is in a coveted geo-political location for access to the regions oil, Arab States for surveillance and attack, and all the gas in the Mediterranean waters that belong to Gaza to mention a few of the resources. Biden, like the GOP is imperialist and hegemonic and they will operate out of the oligarch's interest as well as allowing Israel to increase its nuclear and biochemical industries as well as others that do not have the very few limits placed on these developments here in the US. Remember that is why, or a major why, the US funded Wuhan for Gain -Of-Function bioterrorism research and the numerous bioweaponry research labs in Ukraine. WE still don't know how of these labs the US funds in the world!
Biden is totally supporting the One World Government of the WEF proposal and the WHO One World Pandemic Treaty that the left seems to either ignore or be ignorant about. And that Treaty is due to 'voted' by all the countries in April. Do you have any idea what kind of totalitarian control that will give the oligarchs that can remain hidden from public view? Do you have any idea of how they have been using 'pandemics,' artificially created to gain some public support to push this totalitarian control that essentially destroys nation States? If you are fearful of fascism, then you need to look at what is really being done and stop pretending it is leaders without backbone--their backbone is quite strong. Look at what they are doing and understand that is exactly what they support.
The difference is Biden is a career politician. Trump has been corrupt since the cradle. Not so Biden but unfortunate with our system of government and the rules we've asked politicians to run under, they have to get $$ from the corporate world. That doesn't automatically make them corrupt.
In fact it does not matter the difference you perceive. Biden is worse than Trump as he is duplicitous. He supported horrendous racist legislation when Clinton was in office including supporting conditions that increased private prisons and the incarceration of increasing numbers of Black people. He, like Obama, kept the neo-cons employed from the Bush and Trump administrations. Trump railed against the news media but Biden directed several gov't agencies to develop financial surveillance and control programs to control our money. Along with this exec order, he promotes the WEF agenda of a One World Govt for which Bush began to prime the public to accept. Biden's refusal to release Julian Assange is due to the program to subvert freedom of the press and use his case to intimidate/threaten journalists and has actively supported the censoring of information that questioned govt/corporate narratives. His rabid support of Israel's genocide leaves me speechless. The man is a criminal and should never get anyone's vote. The list of his support for human abuses is 50 yrs long. So yes as a 'professional' politician we have 50 yrs to have learned what a s.o.b. he is and how absolutely harmful he is to our civil liberties.
I'd still choose him over a Nazi any day of the week.
That is your choice but I would stop using words against one person when they apply to both Parties and their figure head leaders/
And TFG? How much support do you really think he’ll give to the Palestinians?? This is the same guy who moved our embassy to Jerusalem. He’d green light a wholesale eradication of the Palestinians.
Nvm. If you can’t see that he’s a twice impeached, 4 x indicted, 91 FELONY counts, emoluments violating, top secret document stealing, Putin loving, grifting, convicted rapist and serial adulterer then there’s zero hope for you.
The truth about both of them is UGLY. Remember how Biden trampled all over Anita Hill and enabled old on-the-take big-time Clarence Thomas to sit on the Supreme Court, AND voted to attack Iraq (gotta get those NONEXISTENT WMDs!), AND resides in the biggest off-shore on-shore LLC state in the nation. (LITTLE OLD DELAWARE HAS MORE LAUNDERED KLEPTOCRAT MONEY HIDDEN THERE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE U.S. and nowadays, probably in places like Caracas too!) Biden is no "innocent"!
Yes, Biden has supported massively racist legislation including development of private prisons that enslave mainly Black people. And his current funding of the Israeli massacre without any limitations. And lets not forget the funding and support of the fake Covid debacle that made Billions for the Pharma industry and its prostitutes like Fauci and his cohort, killed many with the toxic treatments and the promise to create even more of them as the excuse to support the WHO One World Pandemic Treaty that totally subsumes individual States legal authority within the State. WE also cannot ignore/forget the starvation he supports with sanctions against other States like Venezuela simply because that country wants to control its own natural resources and support the needs of the people instead of American oligarchs. The list of Biden's fascist is 50 yrs long but his current horrors is more than enough. But Trump is not the alternative which some people limited by their Binary thinking can only see.
And I haven’t even written about his treasonous January 6th actions. That’s the guy you’re comparing to Joe Biden? THAT guy???
Yes, that guy and the political Parties that both support fascism. I guess you prefer your fascism to wear a softer smile despite it funding genocide and eugenics and totalitarian control by invisible oligarchs.
Tanya,
It feels like the young folk are speaking up on this incrementalist, older ones, Biden supporting substack. it is a relief to some of us..Not supporting Biden, does not mean supporting trumpty the treasonous.
Absolutely. Have been meaning to post the same idea to make sure people are not thinking of the binary choices we are presented. What do you think of Cornell West? Kennedy?
I am all for alternates.. would like to see trumpty the treasonous in jail and what emerges...
Tanya - I’m 1000% with you on not supporting this idea that Biden is the “lesser of 2 evils” but imo Kennedy is very bad news (look at what he stands for) and West comes across as wackadoodle when he tries to engage people with the elder/minister demeanor. If the DNC goes into convention without an endorsed candidate, I fear they’ll raise another AIPAC-endorsed leader like Gavin Newsom. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s not looking good, America. I fear our time may be up.
Yep, many have the same dilemma. We have no adequate candidates. West is great in his politics but his communication style is not acceptable or understandable to white people. His spirituality is actually similar to Kennedy's. However, Kennedy has lost many supporters over his rigid support of Israel and its genocide. He clearly has no real study on the history of its occupation and ethnic cleansing ideology. The public also has been misled about his health agenda as the media has blatantly lied about him and refuses to give him any real coverage. Williamson is very good but is too soft in her presentation and this country is not ready for a spiritually based, progressive who is female. I am at a point of writing in "none acceptable" on my ballot as they have done in Michigan? Wisconsin? I am hearing others say the same. We are left with the choice of refusing to vote for any candidate and organizing a loud, public movement against all these fascists and demanding a platform that is humanistic and democratic as neither of the 2 main Parties stand for such values. FYI, Biden is even worse than Trump/GOP in his support for transhumanism and biotechnological control of our lives. He has been signing exec orders to this effect along with digital control of our personal finances so people can be literally shut out of life if they refuse to comply with a corporate agenda.
1000% agree.
And too many people are asleep at the wheel and somehow think they are immune to the collective outcomes.
I fear only a small percentage understand the stakes.
Tanya, on day one of his presidency Trump could launch a war on Iran, and it would be legal because Iran has supported terrorists. There is nothing Trump wants more than admiration, and he has surrounded himself with bigoted, authoritarian war-mongers. They all think short-term and are indifferent to suffering--unless it is that of their immediate families.
I would be careful about using the term 'terrorist.' All too often that only means people who disagree with US hegemonic control and resist it. Remember that was the impetus of the Iraq debacle--Hussein's efforts to pull away from US dollar control of Iraq and its oil industry. And supported by American racism and hostility towards those of Muslim faith, the US had no problem in invading that country and destroying it as they did with Afghanistan and Korea, the war that never was settled. Even in the US, the term is being applied to people who disagree with whatever the government narrative is on any issue. This tactic was heavily used after 9-11 and become standard tactic being used against people on both the right and left.
Tanya, you raise a valid point: we should be very careful when using the term "terrorist," because it can be easily abused. We also seem to have a firmly entrenched bias in applying the term to those who rise against oppression, but not to the oppressors. So here is a question to you: if the people of North Korea were to rise against their totalitarian regime would you call them "terrorists"?
We have no idea what N Korea is like. We only know the biased reporting the press is allowed to print. I make to pretense to know if the people are that unhappy. I do know the US decimated the country and has never signed a truce with it so in effect we are still at war with that country. We do know how the US imperialism and hegemonic policies work along with real freedom to report news.
That said, I do support people rising up against their oppression as we have been able to see clearly over the decades with Israel's intent to eliminate the Palestinians and I do not call Hamas a terrorist group. Remember the British called the American colonists who rose up against the British terrorists. Labels are created constantly to promote ideology and political positions so we should be very careful on how we judge those who the US elites do not like.
Tanya, you appear to be a left-MAGA. Would you prefer N. Korea's dictator over Trump?
Ridiculous. 45 is a treacherous coup plotter, Putin suck up, amoral wannabe DICTATOR. Hardly the same. Where is your head?
My head is where it belongs--not believing the mainstream narratives and trying to go behind the curtains to see the realities. Now, if you think Trump was a suck up to Putin, how else would you characterize both his and Biden's submissiveness to Netanyahu, a known criminal in his own country trying to avoid the courts just like Trump. Personally, I find Putin to not be as scarey or invasive as the US is in every countries elections. What will you say about Biden's blowing up the NORD I & II fuel lines which is an act of war! So my suggestion to you is that you try to find some independence in thinking and see the bigger picture.
You really want to give up any semblance of democracy because you’re so principal that you think they’re the same? Four years of Trump will destroy this country and everything that ever stood for.
So you prefer destruction with a softer smile?
Not even close!
Israel's leadership, going back to Sharon and Netanyahu's brought Israel to today. Yes, Israel is a "pariah" and their dealing with Hamas will exacerbate antisemitism. I just wish Netanyahu's using his country and its people to save his own ass could be recognized by Americans. Netanyahu IS Donald Trump....they are the same monster. God help Americans if they can't learn this in-your-face-lesson.
Hate - whether it is Antisemitism or Islamophobia NEVER needed a reason.
Saying that Israel exacerbate antisemitism is excusing antisemitism. It may SURFACE more - but it was always there.
And yes - Netanyahoo and his deranged government have caused an unimaginable damage to Israel in less than one year.
Yes, and Biden’s failure to be an effective deterrent in this case is dragging us along for the ride. Failed Middle East policy and making us a pariah country like Netanyahu and Israel. Same for most of the EU and the UK, who have actively supported them or supply weapons.
The old colonial mentality and empire building is and always has been bad for the Global South countries, people and cultures. The world has changed. US policy needs to change too.
I agree with most of what you stated. Anyone who truly paid attention to the conflict saw this coming a million miles away. I don’t agree that Biden is our only chance. The Democratic Party needs to wake up and pick a new nominee. Biden has always been racist (just because he nice to some black people doesn’t mean he’s not racist) and it shows in his utter dismissal of the lives of Palestinians. I have always voted democratic, but I’d literally rather died than vote for that genocidal racist.
The only thing uniting the remnants of this country is the desire for a different Democratic presidential candidate. I desperately wish that our voices mattered.
I cannot adequately describe the rage I feel about the situation.
A platform that reflects the common good and solid candidates. The Democrats have gotten lazy.
That chance of a global pariah have taken a look at lately, at the map of of Israel in relationship to the rest of the world get real
Well said.
What's with the Trump comparison? He's the only president that didn't get us into a war. He called US policy in the Middle East "insane." Tell me why he was wrong.
Moron
Jill Stein?
Unfortunately, she's a poor candidate on multiple levels: no experience, she's 73, funded by corporations, will syphon off just enough votes for a Trump win.
In 2016, she insisted on a recount...raised funds, then dismissed her staff (no recount and never accounted for the funds).
Prof. Reich -- Your next to the last paragraph asks the most relevant question about no conditions aid. The EU countries are now conditioning aid to Israel. Our Congress should do the same.
Why didn’t we think of that?!
Bernie Sanders has been saying that for weeks.
Bernie isn't running this year, is he?
Unfortunately he’s too old too. Not that I think so—I don’t. But a lot of people do.
Bernie said he wouldn't run if Biden did.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/16/bernie-sanders-senate-test-vote-military-aid-israel
Bernie's resolution to condition aid to Israel.
We are. Just today... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/13/biden-israel-aid/
After he urges Congress to send billions of more dollars in military aid to Israel. Which they did. How stupid does he think we are?
By allowing aid to Israel, while children (who are denied aid) are dying -- we become complicit.
So depressing.
That’s my sentiment. To Israel: STOP Bombing Children! You have become the monster by bombing children. Tens of thousands of children. To America: STOP FUNDING THE BOMBING OF CHILDREN.
History will not be kind to us or any other nation that does not take strong action against the war crimes being perpetrated by Israel in Gaza.
Yet, where is the condemnation over the war crimes committed by Hamas? They need to release the hostages.
The condemnation of Hamas has been prevalent in mainstream and social media. To suggest otherwise is patently false. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and Israel is a world leader. World leaders have a responsibility to follow the international laws of war. It is possible to condemn Hamas while also seeing that Netanyahu is committing war crimes. It is not antisemitic to criticize an administration.
The whole world condemned the Hamas attack, it was horrific. Killing many thousands in retribution must also be condemned.
It has nothing to do with retribution. It’s about two things - getting the hostages returned and destroying Hamas’s capabilities to repeat 10-7 as they’ve promised to do!
The deaths of 8,000 children will not achieve those two things.
Your antisemitism is showing in every comment you write. You know nothing about Jewish people.
I don’t disagree, but Israel has been taking hostages of Palestinians all along. There’s lots of Palestinians in jail for no reason.
Where did you hear that load of bull? These Palestinians in Israeli prisons have tried to kill people and multiple other crimes. They are absolutely not held for “no reason!”Furthermore, some have been released and refuse to leave because they have better treatment in Israeli prisons than at home. I’d love to know the source of this fake propaganda.
I’d like to know the source of yours
You are the first one who has ever in the history of this conflict mentioned this. Thanks! It's about time because this is all that really matters.
The US will stand strong. February will be the turning point although it should have come much sooner. Maybe the Guardian that showed six Palestinian children under sheets. That was my turning point.
Sadly, our political commitment to Israel seems to stand implacably against opposing Bibi. Our political leadership must stand up for human rights before the Israel far-right's commitment to wipe Hamas from the face of the earth. We need to restrict our aid and support of Bibi's government...NOW.
I'm afraid the goal is not to wipe out Hamas but to wipe out Palestine itself. Hamas is the cover story.
That’s certainly the best explanation in light of what they are doing.
Garbage….
Yes. There's a great interview in the New Yorker with one of the settlers. She basically said the same thing. https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers
That’s a very disturbing article. She reminds me a bit of the mother of the Boston Marathon Bombers. Similarly hateful.
It's not just Hamas,. James, Netanyahu plans to wipe out Gaza and Palestinians, period. It is pure crass genocide he wants. There is plenty of land in Israel, just look at a map. The Israelis do not need the West Bank or Gaza. They (Netanyahu and his mobsters) are exactly like the trumpster magats in our country. Like fascists and dictators everywhere, they seek "purity" as though one Homo sapiens is superior to another Homo sapiens - we are all the same animal just as every domestic cat is the same animal as every other domestic cat. And every domestic dog is the same animal as all other domestic dogs. Just cosmetic differences.
“ The Israelis do not need the West Bank or Gaza. “ that is correct however, Israel must keep her borders, safe… No matter what. This was a provoked attack by terrorists.
No it wasn’t. That’s just the cover story. It provided a convenient excuse for a land grab.
Yes Ronnie, but in the minds of the Israeli far right, the way to "keep borders safe" seems to exterminate every last Palestinian
Don’t assume. Israel is not a war in country. And Israel wants to be left alone. There are extremists in every country. Palestinians do not recognize Israel as a sovereign country. For that matter, how many of the Arab countries do.
Why would Palestinians “recognize” Israel as a sovereign state when such recognition is not reciprocal? The Israelis have oppressed and battered the Palestinians for decades. Taking their lands, their homes, their water and blockading them in closed enclaves not much better than prisons. Stop pretending this started with Oct 7. It started in 1948.
Yes. Israel has never been honest or fair with Palestinians. The oppression/illegal settlements and inequality has been present for decades. Palestinian people owned land, Israel took it, took their houses, imprisoned people for no reason.
Resistance in a nonviolent way is and has never been honored by Israel and the abuse continued for decades. It did not start on Oct.7.
To those that condemn Hamas: What would we do in the face of decades of abuse with someone stealing land that has beefed in our families for generations? Killing us, abusing us, kidnapping us and watching nothing happen when the abuser gets away with human rights violations and racism?
Israel has never faced meaningful consequences for their behavior. Look at the documented examples of human rights abuses. The international system created to prevent this gives the global West preferential treatment.
Never again means NEVER AGAIN-for EVERYONE.
How far back do you want to go, Sherry old girl. Read the history. They came close to piece and who stopped it?
This is about October 7.
In 2005, Ariel Sharon removed al of hisl troops from Gaza, in the hope of a peace settlement. They received rockets instead. The amount of disinformation expressed on this site is really outrageous. Israel's territory is the size of New Jersey. Arabs received 80% of the land they wanted in the League of Nations. The land given to the Arabs extends all the way to Syria. Israel fought the war of Independence to keep this sliver of land they received by all of the allied nations at the time. It took a holocaust and mass genocide of Jews to do this. Since then, 4 US Presidents have been unsuccessful in achieving peace with Iran/Hamas. Where was the outrage when Hamas terrorists killed in cold blood 1200 innocent Israelis and kept 250 hostages on those that would blame Israel? Where is the outrage that allows them to keep these hostages? It's one thing to defend the safety of Palestinians. It's another to condemn Israel who was not the attacker. Why won't Egypt take the Gazans in or Jordan.D? Certainly they have more than enough land to help their brothers and sisters. The hypocrisy by supposedly fair minded people own this thread is truly disheartening!
With that I agree. But securing those borders does not include mass killing of citizens, men women or children. In the past Mossad proved their capability of attacking and killing specific enemies. Netanyahu, instead intends to wipe the Gazan people off the face of the earth. Killing Hamas is acceptable, killing babies is not.
None of it is acceptable. It’s all horrible however, have you ever been in war? This is hand to hand combat in a densely populated area that is hiding terrorists and hostages below the ground. Not so easy my friend.
The Palestinian ‘brothers’ refuse to open their borders to help. They don’t want Hamas terrorists in their country, either
Very sad. I feel for the people, collateral damage…Hamas should be ashamed. Are they???? The answer is NO
You are correct, Ronnie, I have never had the misfortune to be in a war, or even in a gun fight. But, zi must point out that prior to Netanyahu, Israel has been in multiple wars since it's current founding in 1947/1948. Until, Netanyahu, they have won every war by attacking military personnel. The Israelis are among the best military on Earth, without Netanyahu and his disreputable policies, I have ever confidence the Israelis could and would have won this battle by attacking combatants. Netanyahu is the Israeli version of the trumpster, granted with far more intelligence than trump. If he attacked Iran, it would have made more sense.
Israelis have been in 4 major wars and 13 operations where they've lost thousands people. All these battles took place because they were attacked by their Arab neighbors. If you took the time to read Israel's war plans other than the outlets that support Hamas, you might find they are eliminating the opposition which I might add, warning Hamas and the Palestinians where they will be fighting. Something Hamas didn't have the courtesy of doing in any of their attacks. They have taken care of the terrorists so far, however, Hamas's base of operations is in Rafah. It was a strategic mistake on Israel's part not to strike there first. That is where all of the leaders of Hamas/Iran are hiding. If Israel attacked Iran, it would have involved NATO and the US. Iran is now massing its troops in the north. They are preparing for war, since they can say Israel is not willing to remove their military from Gaza and it will be accepted as a good excuse to create an expansion of the war.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. They are attacking the area where there’s a Citizens and Citizens from around the world are being tortured.
The Palestinian people are hiding these criminals beneath schools, beneath hospitals, among them. Put the blame where it belongs.
“That’s what Jews want”?? You damn antisemite.
Netanyahoo and his DERANGED government aside - this is the map you should look at get the true perspective of things -- at this is the Arab world.
https://static.vecteezy.com/system/resources/previews/022/755/261/original/map-of-arab-world-with-borders-of-the-states-vector.jpg
The Arabs have most of the middle east and ALL of North Africa - and they want it ALL.
I say Arab and not Palestinians, because in 1917 there was NO Lebanese people (in the sense of a SEPARATE national identity), NO Syrian people, NO Jordanian people and NO Palestinian people. They were ALL the Arabs of the Levant under Ottoman rule. And following WWI the Arabs got most of it. All these nationalities are the creation of France, Britain, and Egypt/Russia and created to serve THEIR interests.
The names were used,of course - but to indicate the geographic region - not as a SEPARATE national identity. SEPARATE national identities do emerge - but not at a blink of an eye.
Moshe has a Ph.D in hasbara.
Bullsh*t!
Israel is not a democracy, it's a Jewish supremacist state. According to legislation passed in 2018, Israel exists for Jews. Everyone else is a second class citizen. They are not allowed to vote, have access to bomb shelters (of which there are many in Israel and none in Gaza), and Palestinian Israelis in particular are relegated to menial, low paying jobs since Israel controls the economy.
Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have declared Israel to be an apartheid state.
Joyce, I call misinformation and prejudice. You have conveniently left out of your unfounded reply that Monsour Abbas who currently represents the United Arab party in the Knesset is a former member of the Muslim Brotherhood, no friend of the Israelis. He has made great strides for Arab Israeli people who represent 20% of Israel's population. How many Israelis live in Palestine? How many are represented in their gov't? How many attend their schools. Monsieur Abbas attended Hebrew University. Answer: Zero because they had to flee for their lives at the time of the partition. BTW, the partition was signed by all of the Allied nations at the time. If a country can remove themselves wily, wily from treaties that secured not only their security but also to live in peace and prosperity, what trust in these agreements can the international community have in them? That's what tRump would like to do with NATO. It's a sure way to bring WWIII to all of us. BTW, your reply shows your utter ignorance on the subject.
How many Jews receive citizenship in Arab countries? https://www.israel21c.org/16-arabs-from-israel-making-a-difference-on-the-world-stage/
Israel allows people whose platform is the destruction of Israel to serve in the Knesset because they were voted in. That’s a democracy.
You mean menial jobs like being the administrator of a large Israeli hospital or sitting on the Israeli Supreme Court? I guess an Arab playing professional sports or being a news anchor is pretty menial, too. All these jobs are held by Arabs. Look up Khaled Kabub or Lucy Ahrish. https://www.israel21c.org/16-arabs-from-israel-making-a-difference-on-the-world-stage/
You are an idiot
Yet, Israeli Palestinians are full citizens of Israel.
No, they are not.
If non-Jewish residents were equal, they could marry someone in the West Bank and choose to live together in Israel. They can't. Only Jewish Israelis can do that, and they're subsidized on top of it to make it extra sweet. That is just one example of the 50+ laws Israel has on its books guaranteeing non-Jewish persons of the state second class citizenship—over half of those discriminatory laws in effect since May 15, 1948. They've never been equal. That's the problem. It is the root cause of this entire issue.
There is always room for improvement. This is true.
However, your claim wrong for two reasons:
(1) it is a claim about IMMIGRATION and immigration by definition applies to NON CITIZENS. and
(2) If a Jewish Israeli marries a spouse from the west bank - his or her spouse will not be allowed in either. So there is no discrimination between a Jewish citizen and an Arab citizen - they will both be denied.
Other democracies also have similar Ethnic immigration laws - but you focus only at the Jewish state. This is double standard.
No, if they marry a settler, they can both live in Israel or the West Bank. An Israeli Arab must renounce his Israeli residency and move to the West Bank if he or she wants to live with their family.
Then we get to the license plates, ID cards, the 2018 nation state law, the inability as an Arab Israeli to openly criticize the genocide or celebrate the return of a family member held under administrative detention. Then we have the limitations on subsidies, laws reclaiming their property if they’re absent from the country too long, difficultly getting permits, the absence of their history and culture in education, the inability to live in a settlement, drive in the West Bank anywhere they want…I can go on. They’re Israel’s version of Jim Crowe. Better off than the slaves (occupied people) but far from full, valued citizens with full rights, dignity and freedom. They’re a veneer, and they know it.
Not so simple as you describe it. You make claims as if there were facts. In reality the ministry on interior will not recognize the marriage. I am married to a non-Jewish and what you say is simply not the case.
You also refer to "the genocide" as if it was fact - whereas this is your opinion. Genocide requires intent and policy to wipe out an ethnic group or part of it. If you want to see what genocidal intent is - read the Hamas charter: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
I said above - NOT everything is peachy - there is always room for improvement, But try to go to Israel, talk to people on the street - especially Arabs, ask them if they prefer to be under the Palestinian Authority rule - see what they tell you. They don't want to live under other rule - they want change Israel to be more like the US - I do understand them -- but the US is *the exception* among democracies - most democracies in the world are ethnic states - and so is Israel. The Jews have a right to an Ethnic state - and I am not going to apologize about it. There are 22 Arab states and only one tiny Jewish state.
The Jews have a right to self-determination and home land and have a right to defend itself - and it is the ONLY nation which have these rights questioned - publicly. I am not going to apologize for defending these rights either.
If you want to stop the war in Gaza? return the hostages and get Hamas leaders out of Gaza. Until this is done every live lost in Gaza - Israeli or Arab - is on Hamas hands.
I don't think that is correct, Jon.
Before now would be a good starting point.
You never mention Israeli’s or Zionist. All of your comments are anti-Jewish or attacks on the Torah, which says everything! I have nothing more to say to a Jew hater.
Prof. Reich,
If you've any way of getting to Biden through your myriad contacts & connections, please try to get the message across to him that, for the sake of his campaign, for the Gazan population and Israelis opposed to Natanyahu, he must take a strong stance & position for an immediate cease fire and siege of that land. This could well cost him the election and doom for the rest of us.
If President Biden can't or won't stop supporting Netanyahu's genocide this November American voters will have to choose between two monsters. We need a more morally acceptable alternative.
The monsters are the obscenely wealthy and powerful. Biden and he who shall not be named are merely the monsters' henchmen.
Perhaps, you need a lesson in democracy Jon. It sounds like you'd rather live in authoritarian Russia.
https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartmann/p/saturday-report-22424-why-are-conservatives?r=bpxdl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartmann/p/saturday-report-22424-why-are-conservatives?r=bpxdl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
You'd have us live with President tRump, a criminal, a fraudster, a mentally deranged personality bought and paid for by Puttn, a thug, and you're willing to live under that in preference to what Americans have to deal with. By all means, vote for the Green party and my prayer is that tRump leans on you when he is elected.
Of course I do, but not on Hamas terms. Release the hostages now!
Thom Hartmann describes you and sycophant friends to a tee Jon. "Why are conservatives calling for the end of American democracy? At the CPAC meeting this week, a well-known rightwing influencer, Jack Posobiec, went off on a rant about how important it is for conservatives to band together to end democracy in America and, presumably, replace it with Christofascism like in Russia. “Welcome to the end of democracy!” he declared. “We’re here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6th, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here,” he said as he held up a cross. “That’s right, because all glory is not to government, all glory to God.” This, frankly, should not be surprising. It was 1951 when Russell Kirk, the godfather of the modern conservative movement, published his book The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot in which he laid out the importance of “classes and orders” in society. (I detailed Kirk extensively in The Hidden History of American Oligarchy.) The middle class was growing like a weed back then — this was before Reagan kneecapped the labor movement — and Kirk warned that if too many people got into the middle class and were no longer “the fearful poor” that there’d be chaos in America. He warned that women would no longer respect their husbands, racial minorities would forget their “rightful place” in the social order, young people would defy their parents, and society would go to hell. The solution, dictated back in the late 1700s by British conservative Edmund Burke, was to gut the middle class and return to the “normal” social form of a small number of really rich people at the top, a tiny middle class of doctors, lawyers, and professionals who served the morbidly rich, and a massive class of the working poor. This was the world
Charles Dickens wrote about in almost all of his novels, and, when the 1960s happened and women, students, and minorities rose up in protest, became the world that Reaganomics was established to return us to. Gutting the middle class, eliminating the social safety net, and “restoring order” to society is still the conservative mantra, now heavily overlaid with rightwing Christian ideology. So Posobiec’s proclamation that it’s time to replace democracy with strongman authoritarianism should surprise exactly nobody."
I agree. Those actually in a position to talk to Biden need to convince him to be more forceful and to stop the aid to make Netanyahu stop the killing. bibi and our ex president are two of a kind .
He is engaging in quiet diplomacy. He is putting a great deal of pressure on the Netanyahu gov't. The last thing he wants to do in this country is cause more polarization and friction. That's what you're asking him to do by going public. He is trying to win the presidency and your advice is a sure way to buy him.
L:ies and more lies coming out of a Jew hating mouthpiece.
It needs to be stronger than that. Tell Netanyahu there's no more money until he can get control of his own rage and start acting surgically, as he should have in the beginning; also, Biden could lose the election over this.
Stop saying that. He will not, are you not aware of the Republican assault on women’s bodily autonomy? They’re not going to win. We’re pissed. 65,000 women were sexually assaulted and became pregnant in states with abortion bans. What did they all do? How many were forced to give birth against their will? They are trying to get rid of no fault divorce, because they hate women and want them to return them to traditional gender roles. They’re not going to win, and stop speaking it into existence! However, I too am disgusted with Israel, but electing trump will not help them.
The people who will not show up for Biden include millions of Muslims, young people and people of color who did show up in 2020.
Saying that trump is worse has little impact when tens of thousands are being ethnically cleansed and Biden is paying for it is frankly meaningless if you identify with the oppressed.
Eadie Sharron
Perhaps, you need a lesson in democracy Jon. It sounds like you'd rather live in authoritarian Russia.
https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartmann/p/saturday-report-22424-why-are-conservatives?r=bpxdl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartmann/p/saturday-report-22424-why-are-conservatives?r=bpxdl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
You'd have us live with President tRump, a criminal, a fraudster, a mentally deranged personality bought and paid for by Puttn, a thug, and you're willing to live under that in preference to what Americans have to deal with. By all means, vote for the Green party and my prayer is that tRump leans on you when he is elected.
Angela, you may have me confused with someone else because of the way this chat room moves comments around. I'm totally pro choice and completely on top of the Republican misogyny. Fascists first find ways to control women via pregnancy. I've known that since high school.
And these are reasons to oppose actions or inaction in other matters that risk him losing the election,
Yes, this is why Biden/Democrats often come off as "weak" in the eyes of the MAGA crowd.
Did you ever hear of quiet Diplomacy? He is not trying to cause more friction in the US by going public. If you read anything regarding the subject from an Israeli perspective, he is putting a great deal of pressure on the Netanyahu gov't. Don't be fooled by the media who create a negative narrative whenever possible. Negative press pays! The media gets no reimbursement if everyone is happy.
I will not be voting for Biden again unless he drastically changes course. I don’t see it happening.
Your vote is your choice, but to not vote or vote 3rd party is 1/2 a vote for Trump, and Trump will support Netanyahu more than Biden will and also regulate personal autonomy more.
No, at this point a vote for Trump is a vote for more genocide, a"green" vote or for any other 3rd party is 1/2 a vote for Trump and more genocide, a vote for Biden is a vote for less Jewish genocide, and less Palestinian genocide. Trump will make things worse all around. I wish there was a direct solution to the Israeli / Palestinian conflict, but I don't see it.
If the Holocaust taught us anything, we have a moral obligation to stand up for oppressed people everywhere. How sad that Israel's government is committing such heinous war crimes against innocent Palestinian people. Given the experiences of the Jewish people under the Nazi, it's hard to understand how Israel is doing these crimes.
They want the land, Israel has been taking more land all along. They provoke the Palestinians and neighbors until they react and use that as an excuse to take more.
Well said. That’s what happens when you Know God Gave That Land to Only Jewish people. Jesus was Jewish.
INNOCENT?????? You’ve got to be kidding. A PROVOKED TERRORIST ATTACK.
BRING THE HOSTAGES AND THE BODIES HOME NOW
Yelling does not make it true.
This did not start on 10/7 and every intelligent person - including you - knows that.
How is taking hostages any different than the indefinite detention that Israel practices against Palestinians every single day? Even against children.
How is “hiding behind civilians” in Gaza any different than sending in hostile and violent “settlers” to steal homes and land from Palestinians every day? By using the settlers as the tip of the spear, Israel has made them combatants in their war against the Palestinians.
Yes, innocent. Those who perpetrated the crimes should be held account, but eradicating an entire people because of an attack is collective punishment, which is a war crime and a crime against humanity.
Israel wants the hostages back NOW…no, 5 months ago.
Ronnie is sane. You are not!
I suggest you read Jimmy Carter’s Palestine Peace not apartheid. Also Amnesty International’s report on Palestine and Israel. You could learn a lot.
Another genius
You seem determined to not see the truth
Who?
You do know that Palestine has been occupied for 75 years? That the attacks on Palestine were happening well before Hamas existed? And, Netanyahu was offered ALL the hostages back for a ceasefire and he said NO. He doesn't care about the hostages, and I don't think he even cares about Hamas. He just needed an excuse to ethnically cleanse Palestine. It has been their goal all along. The ICJ court case established that the language used by the top officials of Israel consistently refer to the total destruction of Palestine and its people.
You obviously don’t know anything about history.
What is wrong with you? This happened because Hamas attacked Israel and took those poor hostages and murdered many more. Israel wants the hostages and the bodies back. NOW
However, she must defend her borders and not allow Hamas to have an advantage by doing so.
Google Nakba. The history begins there.
Jon is a sick man. Just read his posts. Paul, in the Christian bible, did his work on him. Jews have been slaughtered for thousands of years because of what's taught in Christian churches for millennia.
Absolutely right. The US is absolutely culpable in Israel’s war crimes. Israel and the US both need to be held accountable.
Professor, I am also Jewish and in 100% agreement. As far as I’m concerned, Netanyahu and his cadre of right-wing messianic Jews, are no better than Hamas, and each deserves each other. The rest of us do not.
This is exactly what Netanyahu wanted. Using a terrorist attack to further his cause of ridding Gaza and the West Bank of as many Palestinians they can force into exile. And his cabinet members don’t even hade the fact that they want to expel at least a million Palestinians from Gaza.
This response is atrocious and I honestly don’t think Biden is up to the task to take on Netanyahu. And Netanyahu is helping to elect Trump.
I wholeheartedly agree; only aid with strings attached. Unconditional support has led us to this tragedy, and it needs to end now!
I agree, Robert. And even if Israel manages to destroy Hamas, which I don’t think is possible, then what? Everything is fine and dandy? Not possible. The only way to fix this is to come to some negotiated win-win solution. And for the record, I’m Jewish too.
Well said…:)
Thank you. 😀
That's what Biden has been trying to do through quiet diplomacy first and more recently his bully pulpit to accuse Netanyahu's response as over the top.
You betcha.
I have said from the start of this conflict that Netanyahu must go. He like tRump needed an issue to use as a get out of jail card. However, that does not excuse Palestine's Arab neighbors who IMO are more responsible for the death and destruction in Palestine today, nor does it excuse the blatant lies and disinformation expressed on this thread.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/13/biden-israel-aid/
No, because more of us believe what I do than you think. We should all always believe in humanity first, and every else, last.
Jon, my children intermarried. You read the Torah as Saint Paul put his thumb on your conclusions. Jews have been slaughtered in his name for millennia.
Again, everyone is acting as if Israel started this war, ignoring that Hamas started it and is continuing it. They are killing innocent Israeli children, destroying their homes, launching rockets from civilian areas and then when Israel announces they are going to take out their rocket launchers at their site, giving ample time for civilians to vacate the area, Hamas doesn't let them leave. The surrounding Arab countries close their borders. Then they ramp up their spending on propaganda to paint Israel as just randomly killing civilians on purpose. Nobody shows footage of the wreckage in Israel done by the rockets they have launched. Hamas has not stopped launching them at Israel. So Israel is supposed to just let them keep doing that? Then their Arab backers spread propaganda making it look as if it's all one-sided and Israel is trying to take away their land from them. That land had already been taken from them by the British. Israel is the one who made the two-state solution possible and that is the only reason why there is a Palestine today. But was it enough for the Arab nations to let Israel live in peace? No. From the get-go they were wanting more and used their proximity to attack Israel. The money they are now spending on propaganda is crazy. They could spend it instead on helping civilians flee the war zone and shelter them until the war is over. This has been decades of abuse. They teach their children that killing Jews is a good thing to do, part of a holy war. You don't see that in the news. The two state solution would work if the Palestinians had not elected Hamas to run its government and if the surrounding Arab countries hadn't helped make that happen. There is only one Jewish homeland where Jewish people have lived for centuries, not just since the 40s. There are 22 Arab nations, but even creating the state of Palestine was not enough. They just used their proximity to attack. The Hamas Palestinians and their supporters are at fault for every single civilian death in this war, both in Gaza and in Israel. I am a progressive Democrat, and I know some people are flocking to support Palestine because it's the opposite side as the right wing in the United States. To that I'd say even a broken clock is right twice a day, and in this case the broken clock that is the right wing, is right to support Israel, a democracy, over the current terrorist-run Palestinian state.
Let's not forget that over the past several years, Israel is responsible for between 5,000 - 10,000 dead Palestinians by Israeli forces under the guise of protecting Israel. Further, the overall total number of dead Palestinians is huge compared to dead Israelis over the years of conflicts.
How does one compare the value of a dead child, Israeli vs. Palestinian???
This conflict is nothing more than a military incursion designed to wipe the Palestinians and any semblance of a Palestinian State from the map of Israel.
What is the difference today between Netanyahoo and any other muderous dictator we have experienced over the past 50 years???
That's an absurd argument - "under the guise of protecting Israel," when was that? And the respective death tolls, how do you interpret that, exactly? Because what it shows is just how little terrorist fanatics like Hamas value their OWN civilians, and the fact Israel has the so-called "Iron Dome"!
Thanks for proving my point, you people have no functioning moral compasses at all and are forced to rely on hilariously ad hominem bilge, so thanks for the laugh!
It would be as if I accused you of "supporting the internationally designated Hamas terrorists, and arguing they have every right to site drones, missiles and mortars IN civilian areas, using their own civilians as human shields, in order to launch strikes AT civilians in Israel,"
the so-called "triple war crime." But as it is, you simply obey the prime directive that Hamas hopes to derive from doing that: to garner the most gullible, well-meaning opponents of Israel's right to self-defense against aggressive genocide, by framing the issue as, "We in Hamas have every right to kill and maim YOUR civilians, but when we hide behind OUR women and children, you have NO right to target us! None!"
It's embarrassing enough that you fall for that nonsense, but it also means any attempted insults of me are simply laughable, exposing your grotesque lack of basic humanity, not mine.
Well said, Richard!
Yeah? More Nazis died in WWII than Americans. Does that make Germany the good guys?
No Joyce, not at all but before the Nazis were vanquished many more people died at their hands; many since then have decried their murderous incursions as 'holocaust' and genocide. In war, it is acepted that many people will perish but it is the way that the deaths occur, it is the volume of deaths of innocents that matter. That's what history remembers.......
Yes. The way Hamas uses these people as human shields is despicable.
You state this as if it's a fact when it's propaganda.
Uh-huh... forgive me but where do you get your news??? The same places suggesting some kind of equanimity of Israeli deaths on Oct 7th vs about 25,000 Palestinians since then, many of whom were children??? Time to take the blinders off Jean, this genocide no matter who tells you anything different...
Millions of Arab dollars spent on propaganda apparently is having just the result they wanted it to have with some of us. The truth is that every single civilian death in this war is on Hamas and the surrounding Arab countries who closed their borders leaving civilians trapped in a war zone just so they could spread this nonsense you are so willing to believe. Israel always warns before striking and civilians should have been able to escape even before these retaliatory strikes occurred. Who held them there? Hamas. Who enabled Hamas to do it? Arab countries deciding not to help civilians to safety and choosing instead to spend millions on anti-Israel propaganda. You fell right into their trap. They could have helped evacuate all of the civilians. Ask yourself, why wouldn't they have done that? They have plenty of room, plenty of resources. Why did they leave civilians there to die? They don't care about human life, that's why. They care only about their written goal to kill all the Jews in Israel and destroy the one and only Jewish homeland.
Sorry to hear your extended perspective... you are welcome to your opinion but I must suggest that Arab propaganda is not the only misinformation available. More importantly, there is a common view that Hamas does not equal Palestinians, who for the most part have lived with Israelis, crossing borders for work, business & religion in Israel.
Not exactly the hallmark of a written goal to kill all Jews. Further, I would simply ask why has it taken so long for Israel to welcome any alliance with the more moderate Arab states like the Saudis. What has transpired since has led many to believe a 2 - State Solution could be a possibility. However, Hamas just like Netanyahu want nothing to do with that solution.
There is plenty of blame to go around Jean and I sincerely hope I have not offended you....
I'm not offended. I know there are good Palestinians who don't have that same extremist agenda. It is a written goal of Hamas and many Palestinian children are being raised to hate Jews, to believe killing them is a holy act. There are no similar schools in Israel that I'm aware of teaching children to hate their Palestinian neighbors. I was hoping Netanyahu would be removed again, especially since his moves to stifle democracy in manipulating its judiciary processes have resulted in a loss of support for him. There was a movement to replace him gaining momentum. Hamas just regained for him some of the support that he had lost by its timing of this unprovoked attack. Their manipulation of these events, attacking while he was in power knowing full well how he would react, solidifies my belief that they are to blame for every single death and injury in this war along with the wealthy Arab nations who chose to close their borders instead of offering sanctuary and safety. They have the money, they have the room. There is no excuse for them leaving civilians in a war zone to be used as shields by Hamas Palestinians.
Juan, well said and needed!
You obviously get your figures from the Health Ministry, funded by Iran.
The author of this newsletter set the tone. The result has been a deliberate stream of lies and fabrications from people that should no better. The Jew haters have an excuse to spread their propaganda. From the Rothchild family's net worth estimated at 20 trillion to the George Soros controlling the world's levers of power trope. Describing Israel as the aggressor because they weren't satisfied with the more than adequate land they were given by our allies in 1945, they decided to murder them, because obviously they have the capacity to shelter 2 million Arabs. Israel invading a peaceful country has been the order of the day, where settlers are murdered randomly. Politically these people know the can win the propaganda war everyday of the week, and they are doing their best to achieve that goal.
And many more Germans than Americans died in WWII, so by your logic, the Nazis were on the right side of history.
Bullies—in their fearfulness—have no sense of proportionality. No recognition of equality or moral obligation. Jews are a just people but Zionist Israel’s horrific actions are turning world sentiment against Jews. How does this ensure safety and security for Israel?
Israel is not the bully. You mean Hamas and the Arab countries backing them. Again one teeny tiny Jewish country, 22 Arab countries, many extremely wealthy, vast lands. Who is being ganged up on and bullied? Not the 22 Arab countries against 44 democracies. It's the one and only Jewish homeland, the only one, who has been attacked for decades just for its existence. Hamas has trapped civilians in the war zone while they continue to fire rockets at Israel killing innocent Israeli children, plus there are years and years of other heinous acts of terrorism all based upon greed and selfishness of Arab nations not content with what they already have. They want to pretend Israel took something from them. Israel gave them Palestine. They didn't have to do that. In return they have used its proximity to attack, tunnel in, grab more and more, and still claim they were the ones being robbed.
If yours’ is a sincere question then my answer is sadly “Yes, I am saying that Israel is acting like a bully”. Israel is a powerful military giant. Israel is a colonizer and an occupier. According to Nelson Mandela, Israel has created apartheid worse than S. Africa’s. Israel receives billions in outside support. But as long as Israelis perceive themselves as small, helpless victims surrounded by threatening enemies and believes their whole purpose in life is to defend themselves, then they will never be safe or enjoy freedom or peace.
If you treated your next door neighbors with disdain, shot at them for walking on the sidewalk, had the audacity to build on their property, broke their car windows when they parked under your tree, and dumped your garbage on their front yard, would you really be surprised if they retaliated in any way they could?
I’m just saying, Israel has never thought about being a good neighbor because they have never recognized the Palestinians right to live on the land. Instead, Israelis perceive themselves as small and that justifies their actions. Israel COULD own their innate power to be fair and just peace makers.
Geography alone would show you the error in that point of view. It's a very tiny country, only about the size of New Jersey. Israel needs worldwide support to survive because their enemy is extremely cunning. I believe they have tried to make peace. Their adversary is pure evil. Terrorists with a stated agenda to kill all the Jews. Israel has no stated agenda to kill anybody, but they have to defend themselves. As I said, it's a tiny country, the one and only Jewish homeland, surrounded by 22 Arab countries with an element of terrorism that will not accept negotiating or diplomacy. They want to destroy Israel and turn the world's opinion against Israel through millions of dollars of propaganda. I can definitely see it is having an effect, when normally progressive, good people who want peace side with those monsters unwittingly.
Thank you for responding. I don’t wish to argue because my primary interest is in understanding how we humans can create peace in the world. Your beliefs are firm. If you should become more curious and desire to expand your views perhaps exploring more diverse history would offer a less insular perspective. “The Hundred Years War on Palestine” by Rashid Khalidi is a comprehensive account of the Israeli/Palestinian situation starting in the late 1890’s with the early talk about forming an Israeli state and through 2019. I found when understanding more of the factual details and the complex politics my compassion for all parties increased.
You are the kind of person that turns up on a newsletter like this because the author and people like Bernie Sanders give you free rein to spout your Jew hating ideology!
Israel has given Palestinians multiple opportunities for peace. Hamas doesn’t want peace. They’ve even stated they will repeat October 7 over and over, again. There charter is about killing Jews. If they don’t want the IDF in their neighborhood, they shouldn’t take hostages there!
Wow! I can see why "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" was a welcomed addition to the big book. But even an "eye for an eye" Lev 24:19-21 was a principle of justice that requires punishment equal in kind to the offense. So, if someone puts out another's eye, one of the offender's eyes should be put out, not tens of thousands of eyes. Practicing the golden rule could end this cycle of fear and retribution. But it takes kindness, not needing to be "right" all the time. I know that’s a challenge.
Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East.The Arabs and Muslims are represented by Monsour Abbas a member of the Israeli Knesset. Arabs represent 20% of the Israeli population.He is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, no fan of Israel's. How many Jews are represented in Palestine? How many Jews live in Palestine? Answer: Zero. Jews had to flee from Palestine with the clothes on their back.
I think you are missing the tragic element of the story. It's true the Arabs aren't completely innocent victims in this story. If they hadn't attacked Israel when it was first founded, it would not be as big as it is today. But the Palestinian people as a whole aren't responsible for this tragedy. There's a need to end the apartheid. Here is an organization of Israelis and Palestinians of goodwill who are working for a solution:
https://www.alandforall.org/english/?d=ltr
I agree except that you need to study how Israel came to be. The atrocities committed by the Jews are well documented.
The so-called atrocities of Jews are propaganda. You need to find more accurate sources. It does no good to study if you are buying this nonsense.
Amy Goodman's person to person interviews are not real? Propaganda? You are delusional.
You obviously don’t know the history. Try researching it.
I do. I've lived over 70 years of it.
I don’t know where you live or what you have experienced but I do know of people here that say racism does not exist in the US.
Skip, you definitely need to study history. Why was the Balfour Declaration signed in the first place? Answer: Jews were being slaughtered in pogroms all over Europe.. Chaim Weitzman, a world famous scientist who helped Churchill win WWII realized in the early 1900's there was no safe place in Europe for Jews to live. He prevailed upon his friendship with Lord Balfour in England to give the Jews back their biblical homeland in Palestine. The word biblical Palestine not the created Palestine that includes Lebanon and Jordan. The Palestine, Iran refers to didn't exist before 1948. I won't go through the Pico Agreement, The League of Nations agreement that all the our allies signed to prove my point, but YES Skip you need to review the history. You might want to consult the Jewish Virtual Library to get the facts which you clearly don't have. Spreading disinformation and innuendo serves no one.
You obviously haven’t studied how Israel started and the atrocities that have occurred. You are only studying the Israeli perspective. Try reading Jimmy Carter’s “Palestine, Peace not Apartheid” and Amnesty International report on the Israeli and Palestine activity. Why has the United Nations repeatedly criticized Israel and its treatment of Palestinians? We has repeatedly vetoed sanction against Israel. Try opening your eyes and mind and see the truth.
https://jcpa.org/article/the-forgotten-narrative-jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries/
But Israel exists. That won't change. It's best to think about what is needed for the peace of both peoples rather than focusing on placing blame.
But you said that if Palestinian hadn’t attacked Israelis when it was formed. Israelis took homes, farm and towns without any compensation and slaughtered thousands in the process. Yes, it was done and in the past and Israel does exist. Knowing the history and truth helps understand why both sides react as they do.
I didn't really mean Palestinians attacked Israelis. I meant the Arab states. I actually think the whole identity of "Palestinians" as a people is kind of a result of being caught between the Israelis and the Arabs. Of course Palestinians are a kind of Arab, but they have a unique identity from being caught in the middle of these forces.
Wonderful link, documenting the solution.
Ilan Pappe and other scholars, using Israel's own historical archives, have thoroughly documented what really happened in 1947-48 was an ethnic cleansing.
Just using the propaganda language of "apartheid" when referring to Israel shows a lack of understanding of what is really happening there. Keep in mind that Hamas and the surrounding Arab countries supporting them knew who Netanyahu was and how he would react. They hoped he would be forceful and aggressive in his defense of Israel so they could ignore the fact that they trapped civilians in a war zone and focus on whose weaponry killed them. Hamas and the surrounding Arab nations supporting them are solely responsible for these deaths. They are terrorists. They are not reasonable people you can simply reach through negotiation and diplomacy. They see human life as cheap, a means to an end. They alone are responsible for this death and destruction. Even during the cease fire this should have been obvious as we saw Israel releasing several times the number of prisoners as Hamas released innocent civilian hostages. The people in prison did something to be tried and convicted, serving their sentences, yet Israel released them trying to appease Hamas. Nothing will appease them except their written stated goal, to kill all the Jews.
The people are pawns. Try living in Putin's Russia or Iran's Hamas. Navalny is a good example of what happened when the the people speak up. Jon Carver, on this thread, wouldn't last a day if he lived there. That is what he is advocating on this thread. In his mind, Biden is the monster and the Green Party will save us all. It's the ravings of a lunatic1
Yes, Hamas could end the war immediately if they surrendered and stopped using their people as hostages and keeping funds from their own population, instead using it for weapons and for themselves in their tunnels under hospitals, schools, homes. They are to blame at least as much as Israel.
That is BS. Israel is very clearly trying to kill them all, push them into the sea, and take their land. They are now forgetting to not say it out loud. Trust what the Israeli government is saying, which is that they want the Palestinians gone and to take all their land.
Israel started this war a very long time ago, and has never let up.
Not to mention the repeated silence when Arabs kill many more Palestinians than Israel ever has.
Israel is not a democracy; it's a Jewish supremacist state. It exists for Jews and everyone else is a second class citizen. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have declared Israel to be an apartheid state. Hamas exists because of 75 years of Israeli oppression and subjugation of the indigenous Palestinian people. It is Israel that has cut off all food, water, medical supplies, electricity, etc. to a civilian population, and bombed and incapacitated every hospital in Gaza. War crimes all. A much better approach would have been targeted assassinations of those responsible for Oct. 7, but as others have pointed out, this is not about Hamas, but rather the ethnic cleansing of Gaza to allow for its annexation into Israel. Israel's been stealing Palestinian land and killing Palestinians since its inception.
Jews may consider that part of the world their homeland, but not everybody recognizes the Jewish god, and other people have lived in that same area for centuries. Palestinians had no say in the confiscation of their lands and homes to create Israel, never received compensation of any kind, and had nothing to do with the Holocaust.
I suggest you read Jimmy Carter’s Palestine Peace not apartheid. Also Amnesty International’s report on Palestine and Israel. You could learn a lot
Israel is the only reason there is a Palestine at all. Today's violence is all on Hamas/Arabs, not on Israel for defending itself. This is the issue I depart from Amnesty International on, because I believe they did not look into it deeply enough and have been affected by the millions of dollars spent on Arab propaganda painting themselves as victims of Israel. It's the other way around. The surrounding Arab countries could well afford to allow civilians to escape the war zone and Hamas could let them get out of the area they know Israel is about to attack instead of using them as shields. The land given to Palestine was on the condition they not use it to attack Israel. They broke the agreement. Israel does not owe them more land. Most people calling themselves Palestinians are actually from other Arab countries. Arafat was from Egypt. If Palestine allows terrorists to take over its government and indoctrinate Palestinian children that killing Jews is a holy thing to do to defend their supremacy in the middle east, they have lost any right they were given to any land near Israel. The two state solution would only work if there were not Arab terrorists involved, a network beyond just Hamas. I believe Golda Meier who I heard speak in San Francisco during the 80s at the Jewish Community Center. Israel has made every effort to make peace since it began.
These people casting Israel as an aggressor know that Palestine is surrounded by Arab countries that far exceed the land and population of Israel. Anyone who has eyes to read and ears to listen and uses any common sense knows this. They've been indoctrinated since birth by their families and church to suspect Jews of all stripes. The same thing happened in pre Nazi Germany. They're rooting for the annihilation of Jews so they don't have to acknowledge their leadership in all academic and cultural spheres of life. However, there is a quote from a Lutheran pastor that rhymes with history.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller
Let's face it: Israel is going to exist. Palestinians are not going to stop fighting for a better deal. We must come to terms with these realities. There's no evidence that surrounding Arab countries want the Palestinians. Palestinians and Israelis must coexist.
The Arab countries don’t want them.
That's the thing. The Hamas Palestinians won't stop fighting because they are not reasonable. While they occupy Palestine with their stated goal to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel, how can diplomacy possibly work? You need two reasonable parties to negotiate, and we only have one, Israel. Then we have their millions of dollars in support from other Arab countries used to spread anti-Israeli propaganda rather than saving lives that could easily have been saved. Their propaganda is picked up by trusted news sources because there is money involved in getting it published and disseminated. People who usually don't fall for propaganda see it coming from sources they had always trusted, like Amnesty International who failed to dig deeper to get to the actual truth.
I refuse to remove anyone from the category of human.
That's nice in theory, but evil is inhuman and Hamas is pure evil.
Thank you
Do we think innocent Palestinians are not human with the same rights as Israelites ???
My question is what is Hamas? An organization that believes in killing all Jews! Why aren’t we blaming them? I have never been a Bibi fan since he mentored Trump and I saw his far right government try to eliminate the Palestinians in the West Bank! We have an obligation to support Israel. That does not mean we have to support Bibi! Call out who is really at fault all those who choose war over peace. Bring home the hostages! Make Hamas pay for using the Palestinian people as human shields! Time to stop using people as targets and come to some kind of deal! Peace Now!
Hamas could end the war immediately if they surrendered and stopped using their people as hostages and keeping funds from their own population, instead using funds for weapons and for themselves in their tunnels under hospitals, schools, homes. They are to blame at least as much as Israel. Please call them out, not just Israel!
You're not going to convince the diehard Manicheans on here, they've fallen completely for the idea that no Palestinian action is ever connected to any subsequent event, it's always going to turn out "Israel had a chance here and here and here and here to intervene, right after Hamas sited the missile platforms surrounding or inside mosques, hospitals, schools. apartment blocks, churches, shopping centers, and when they stole millions of donated humanitarian aid and used it for their Islamo-fascist death cult's prime directive, and when they lied about all of it, and when they launched over 10,000 more missiles at Israeli civilian targets SINCE October 7, 2023" etc.
camera-uk.org/2024/02/06/can-there-be-a-decent-pro-palestinian-left/
^^^^^^^
I've been on the "Democratic Left" at least since I read Michael Harrington's book Toward a Democratic Left in high school in the 1960s, having a grandfather who was Speaker of the Iowa House of Representatives set me on that path as well, worked for years for various environmental and citizen action groups in the Twin Cities (MPIRG, Public Citizen, Citizens for a Better Environment, Minnesota COACT) and am far more comfortable with 95% plus of practically any specific political position formulated from that perspective. But here, I think the mania to condemn Israel *tout court* has become rabid, Netanyahu is a huge part of that, but the idea Israel can in any way, shape or form leave Hamas in charge of Gaza is absurd, and that needs to constantly be emphasized in all of these frenzied discussions.
Happy Mardi Gras anyway, it's crucial to laissez les bon temps roulez toujours, even now, maybe especially now, an prepare for determined nonviolent, legal , protracted resistance in case of a Trump victory as well. Not running for the exits, playing a "blame game," but protracted, determined resistance.
J.D., I've been waiting for someone of your stature and experience to finally make the most coherent post I've read so far. I tried to use history and facts to support Israel's actions, but it has fallen on mostly deaf ears. So far I've counted 5 supporters of Israel's situation and hundreds of people that know better defending the innocent Palestinian people and Hamas.
So far I've only seen three voices on this thread defending Israel's right to defend itself. Amazing!
It's a depressing thought, however, as I read more comments I found an additional 10 defenders of Israel. I didn't get to the last comment so I don't know the total, however, over 700 comments made, it's still a depressing figure.
They are an organization who are fighting for the Palestinian people to no longer suffer under the horrible Israeli occupation. Where did you read that Hamas want to kill all Jews? They want their people to live with freedom and dignity. If anything, the barbaric genocide happening right now will only strengthen the resistance. Hamas is an ideology and the solution cannot happen militarily. The people in Palestine must no longer have to live under such horrible conditions. Google "Open Air prison"....
Huh their mission statement does not dedicate the destruction of Israel? Not a terrorist organization? Where do you get your information? You are right about one thing an organization that is responsible for using people as human shields is a wonderful thing? Does it matter that Hamas used the money they received to buy weapons and tunnels instead of invest in their people. I am not for bombing women and children. I am not for the destruction of any people. I do not believe at this current moment that there is any Palestinian leader to step up and negotiate with.
Name a person who would negotiate peace? Please
Unfortunately, a significant number of Americans do in fact still think this or apply different standards of empathy for Israelis and Palestinians. This bias has been a factor in American support for Israel for a long time.
So it was from the beginning of the European occupation of North America and the deeds perpetrated on indigenous people here. Same story, different centuries.
That's overly simplistic, as if there were not already a host of vicious inter-tribal wars, slavery, raids of rape and conquest, oppression of women, and much more in that sordid vein, long before any Europeans landed.
Have you ever studied how the Aztecs were regarded by their enslaved neighbors before Hernando Cortez arrived? It sure helps explain how less than 200 Conquistadors conquered a nation of several million! They made alliances with the Aztec's victims, naturally. Or why various Native American tribes aligned with the "invading colonists," based on past wars and blood feuds?
NONE of which can possibly " justify" any of the vicious ethnocentric maltreatment and outright genocide to which you refer, that goes without saying - for that, all we can do now is demand treaties be enforced and if possible, reparations designed and paid, as well as trying to get the federal government to respect native land and environmental concerns, inter alia.
"Only Euro-centrics say Aztec," LOL, please by all means become even more condescending and pointless, and the attempt to hook up the TORAH with Cortez (and his Native tribal allies rebelling against enslavement, too?!) is a perfect example of the sheer depths to which anti-Semites will go, whether "teaching at a tribal college," or not, whoopee, means less than nothing when you are pushing this gibberish, of course.
No way have you EVER published anything in any serious peer-reviewed academic journal expressing this kind of wacko attack on Jews disguised as a discussion of the Conquistadors in the territories where the AZTECS enslaved neighboring tribes, either.
But again: thanks for being so clueless, so lacking in self-awareness, makes it easy to see, no, it's not "Poe's Law" at work, it's not satire, this guy is serious!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture which says that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.[1][2][3]
*****
Richard, you are trying to speak to Jon as a rational human being. It's like speaking to tRump. Jon needs serious deprogramming. His divorce went to his head and colored his belief system. He also advocates voting for the Green party so he can overthrow the monster Biden. His words not mine.
Btw, 'trans-historical collective guilt" is used by fanatics to tar entire groups for deeds they did not perform by agents they do not know, said agents having died many years earlier, and which they might condemn, so even the fact I am a complete "heretic," {non-Christian, non-Jew} bears absolutely no relation to your paralogical tripe, Jon.
ANYONE encompassed by your deranged attack is equally unscathed - it would like blaming currently living descendants of the AZTECS for their ancestor's crimes, do you see how that works?
Seriously -you seem really unhinged, as if your free-floating sense of grievance and being some kind of "victim" dominates your every waking moment. Seek help, is my advice.
I am muting you on here - maybe the third time since 2009 I have ever done that, since you seem to be a complete waste of every possible motivation on my part to correct your multiple confusions, seething resentments, bigoted attitudes, and simplistic posts.
LOL, more preposterous bilge from you, FACT.
Of course not. Why would you even say that?
‘Deliberate withholding of food’ you say?? Did you read about the two elderly Israeli hostages that were freed by the IDF after, what…125 days?? The medicine that their families had sent down to Gaza for them was never given to them. It was withheld.
With all due respect, war is Hell, isn’t it? No one wins.
BRING THE HOSTAGES AND THE BODIES HOME.
I don't know the ins and outs of the reasoning behind what drives a man to do what Netanyahu has done to the Palestinians. The citizens of Gaza are caught between a group of barbaric hostage taking savages and the vengeful will of a grieving society that wants its people back. There is no answer that doesn't require the letting of someone's blood. <Netanyahu evidently is doing his level best to find a just solution.>
What is driving him is that he faces jail time if he ever leaves office. So he has thrown his lot in with anyone who would join a coalition with him, regardless of how extreme and despicable, to save his own skin.
Just like trump!
Vanyali--I've thought that also, still it's a weak position to put all your eggs in. He has to have a back-up plan just in cast. That one worries me.
sadly….129 days that these people, if alive, raped, and G-d knows what else….
18.42857142857143 WEEKS, almost 5 months. It’s all just awful.
Ronnie--We have no idea.
horrifying to contemplate
Ronnie--People don't realize it but our greatest gift that we here in these United States enjoy is the fact that we are geographically isolated from both Europe and Asia. Those two oceans have acted as a buffer zone and so far, it has kept us safe.
Donald, I just wrote to my republican congresswoman that we are no longer isolated. In the 1930s, Nazi Germany was far, far, away. Now we have to realize that Moscow is just across the Arctic Ocean, which is melting, which eventually will attract more settlers, people, cities. In other words, we really aren't isolated. Online you can find maps of the northern hemisphere without the distraction of longitude lines or the familiar distortion of those old-fashioned flat maps we all saw in seventh grade social studies classes. Living here in low-density Minnesota; we're wide open for a "warning" nuke.
September 11 changed that
Palestinians have a const just like we do in the United States, which says there will be no peace to all Israelis are dead. What are you gonna do about that now?
Hamas charter says it has nothing against the Jewish religion or Jews, but against the 75 year oppression and subjugation of the Palestinian people by Jews. That is why it exists and is supported by many Palestinians.
Margaret--That is the essence of the entire problem over there. Hamas will never rest until all the Jews are dead and the Christians have left. There is only one answer to that, get rid of all the influence that Hamas has.
Margaret--The people of Gaza are for the most part Palestinians, and they don't want war it's Hamas and they are inhumanly crazy. Sadly, Hamas has imbedded themselves within the civilian population which explains the huge number of calamities. There is no answer to the terrible realities found over there.
Jon--It may be an answer, but may I ask, what was the question?
Vengeful will? Don't know about that phrase.
Robin--It's the driving force behind the Israeli offensive. Revenge for what occurred on 10/7
It's beyond vengeance. Hamas must be eradicated. They have stated they will do the same again and again. There is no choice but to eradicate them. Any country would do the same.
Robin--your solution is easy to think of but when considering the innocent people of Gaza, a problem arises. How to destroy one without killing the other.
That's why the "principle of proportionality" exists -
www.jewishpolicycenter.org/2023/10/30/dont-lecture-israel-about-proportionality/
No he isn't.
Caroline--I was told the < > were to be used when expressing sarcasm.
Did not know that. I'm not up on these things. I'm glad you don't think Netanyahu is to the good guy here.
Carolyn--That is one description he will never fill.
Israel doesn’t get a pass to commit any and all war crimes it can dream up because someone took a handful of hostages once. That’s not how the laws of war work.
“A handful”??? Boy, that statement says everything about who you are
Way to ignore the point.
Which was?
I'll tell you this altho my family thinks I'm out of my mind. Israeli intelligence received detailed plans of this attack sometime ago. According to what they said they thought, they ignored them as unlikely or impossible. I disagree. I think they took the plans very seriously. When Israeli intelligence received information that Hamas was practicing the attack a couple of months before, I think they decided to mousetrap Hamas. They let them attack knowing that there would be casualties but it gave the government a perfect excuse to wipe Gaza off the map. Otherwise, it's the biggest failure of Israeli intelligence and military ever. I'm very suspicious.
Funny that….as a nobody I have been saying this from the start. Mossad is one of the world's best intelligence groups. No WAY they didn't know what was coming! I bet Netanyahu decided it was a perfect opportunity to take over the whole of the land and incorporate it. I would put nothing past any of the leaders out there.
Susan, your conclusion is correct. He did not want to face jail time for his bribery charges.
Conspiracy theories don’t belong in this discussion
Excuse me, but Carol is NOT engaging in conspiracy theories.
They did have the plans a year in advance. They also had warning of a “practice” run shortly before the attack.
What conspiracy are you referencing?
See above.
Carol Y., I've had similar musings.
Carol, you're correct until you state your conclusions. Netanyahu ignored the intelligence because he faced jail time. He needed a get-out-of jail free card and in his self absorption thought the invasion would be a simple skirmish that he could overcome. He failed and he has blood on his hands. He deserves to go to prison as tRump does!
Carol,Israeli intelligence knew for a year that Hamas was massing their troops around the southern border. I differ with your conclusion. Netanyahu needed a get out of jail card as tRump needs here. He never thought it would result in a full scale war. He thought the IDF was capable of putting down any rebellion from Hamas because they were successful in 13 previous operations. He was willing to take the chance with Israeli lives at stake. He must face the consequences of his actions.
They had the plans for a year.
They decided it would give them an excuse to ethnically cleanse Gaza.
And that is exactly what they are doing.
Me too.
I watched Jon Stewart today. It was so good and sooo funny, I watched it three times. I realized Biden's best defense is to make fun of himself and to laugh at and humiliate Trump. Instead he's too often on the defense. People respond to humor a lot better than they do to fear. Ask his staff to write some decent jokes for him. We all need to laugh a little.
Get him out of his bubble; find new public relations people.
"Thom Hartmann
Why are conservatives calling for the end of American democracy? At the CPAC meeting this week, a well-known rightwing influencer, Jack Posobiec, went off on a rant about how important it is for conservatives to band together to end democracy in America and, presumably, replace it with Christofascism like in Russia. “Welcome to the end of democracy!” he declared. “We’re here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6th, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here,” he said as he held up a cross. “That’s right, because all glory is not to government, all glory to God.” This, frankly, should not be surprising. It was 1951 when Russell Kirk, the godfather of the modern conservative movement, published his book The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot in which he laid out the importance of “classes and orders” in society. (I detailed Kirk extensively in The Hidden History of American Oligarchy.) The middle class was growing like a weed back then — this was before Reagan kneecapped the labor movement — and Kirk warned that if too many people got into the middle class and were no longer “the fearful poor” that there’d be chaos in America. He warned that women would no longer respect their husbands, racial minorities would forget their “rightful place” in the social order, young people would defy their parents, and society would go to hell. The solution, dictated back in the late 1700s by British conservative Edmund Burke, was to gut the middle class and return to the “normal” social form of a small number of really rich people at the top, a tiny middle class of doctors, lawyers, and professionals who served the morbidly rich, and a massive class of the working poor. This was the world
Charles Dickens wrote about in almost all of his novels, and, when the 1960s happened and women, students, and minorities rose up in protest, became the world that Reaganomics was established to return us to. Gutting the middle class, eliminating the social safety net, and “restoring order” to society is still the conservative mantra, now heavily overlaid with rightwing Christian ideology. So Posobiec’s proclamation that it’s time to replace democracy with strongman authoritarianism should surprise exactly nobody.
Maybe!
Netanyahu's horrible conduct may well cost Biden re-election, because of Biden's refusal to get tough. Shame on Biden, but U.S. voters need to keep in mind that this is exactly what Netanyahu wants. He hates Biden and would love to see Trump back in power. So the tragic irony is that if progressives don't vote for Biden to punish him, Netanyahu and Trump are the clear winners. Sadly, voting out Biden will NOT help the Palestinians. Au contraire. The Israeli right wing lobby is hugely powerful in the U.S. I just hope Biden gets pissed off enough to finally stand up to Netanyahu.
And withhold weapons and financial support.
From who, exactly? You can't expect Hamas to care if they aren't funded - they've stolen hundreds of millions of "humanitarian aid," Israel isn't going to be able to negotiate a permanent ceasefire with Hamas or Islamic Jihad or the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, so expect this to continue UNTIL the Palestinians themselves eject the terrorists (also their enablers in the Palestinian Authority), DEMAND elections - notice Hamas hasn't allowed them since 2007, and the PA same thing - they're dictatorships.
None of this will help the victims on either side, but if it makes some of "we progressive leftists" feel good to vent, so be it.
camera-uk.org/2024/02/06/can-there-be-a-decent-pro-palestinian-left/
We really need to take this ^^^ on board and learn from it, but it's easier to go the "cognitive dissonance reduction" route!
\
Please by all means keep digging that hole deeper, the outright anti-Semitic bilge is a surefire winner, JC!
You people purveying open Jew-hatred are filth, it doesn't fool ANYONE* paying attention that you gloat about the mass murder of Jews and are outraged that Jews finally have a state that defends itself, unique in world history for the some sixteen million Jews on the planet!
When I as a non-Jew can see through this despicable garbage, you know you're in trouble - well, you would if you had the political nous and requisite functioning moral compass that is.
https://camera-uk.org/2024/02/23/weekend-long-read-395/
Excerpt:
by Hadar Sela
1) Writing at Newsweek, John Spencer explains why ‘Hospitals Are Protected Under International Law. But They Cannot be ‘Off Limits’’.
“As a basic principle of the international law of armed conflict—as well as basic humanity—attacks against civilian sites are prohibited, unless, for example, those civilian sites are used for military purposes. On top of the standard protection of civilian objects, hospitals have a special level of protection under international law, given that they are places of sanctuary. Those in need of medical attention should be able to receive it without fear or danger.
That is also why international law specifically requires that hospitals not be used to shield military objectives from attack, for example, if a hospital is used for “interference, direct or indirect, in military operations, such as the use of a hospital as a shelter for able-bodied combatants or fugitives, as an arms or ammunition store, as a military observation post, or as a center for liaison with combat forces,” per the U.S. Department of Defense law of war manual. Such uses can lead to a hospital losing its protected status.”
*******
And THIS** is what people as lost and confused as you need to take on board, I am very much "on the democratic Left" and consider you a constant source of either hilarity at the lame failed insults, or stunned amazement that you actually think you have the "moral high ground"!
**
https://camera-uk.org/2024/02/06/can-there-be-a-decent-pro-palestinian-left/
Thank you Richard for saying it like it is. They'd rather live under a Christ/Fascist dictator like Putin. They are part of the Mike Johnson and Tucker Carlson crowd trying to overthrow our democracy. Jon Carver needs serious medical attention. He has no grip on reality!
Jon you sound like the leader of a terrorist organization. I believe you need to be in a psychiatric hospital.
Thom Hartmann
"Why are conservatives calling for the end of American democracy? At the CPAC meeting this week, a well-known rightwing influencer, Jack Posobiec, went off on a rant about how important it is for conservatives to band together to end democracy in America and, presumably, replace it with Christofascism like in Russia. “Welcome to the end of democracy!” he declared. “We’re here to overthrow it completely. We didn’t get all the way there on January 6th, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here,” he said as he held up a cross. “That’s right, because all glory is not to government, all glory to God.” This, frankly, should not be surprising. It was 1951 when Russell Kirk, the godfather of the modern conservative movement, published his book The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot in which he laid out the importance of “classes and orders” in society. (I detailed Kirk extensively in The Hidden History of American Oligarchy.) The middle class was growing like a weed back then — this was before Reagan kneecapped the labor movement — and Kirk warned that if too many people got into the middle class and were no longer “the fearful poor” that there’d be chaos in America. He warned that women would no longer respect their husbands, racial minorities would forget their “rightful place” in the social order, young people would defy their parents, and society would go to hell. The solution, dictated back in the late 1700s by British conservative Edmund Burke, was to gut the middle class and return to the “normal” social form of a small number of really rich people at the top, a tiny middle class of doctors, lawyers, and professionals who served the morbidly rich, and a massive class of the working poor. This was the world
Charles Dickens wrote about in almost all of his novels, and, when the 1960s happened and women, students, and minorities rose up in protest, became the world that Reaganomics was established to return us to. Gutting the middle class, eliminating the social safety net, and “restoring order” to society is still the conservative mantra, now heavily overlaid with rightwing Christian ideology. So Posobiec’s proclamation that it’s time to replace democracy with strongman authoritarianism should surprise exactly nobody."
Powerful message. Well said.