What’s the use of the hearings by the House committee to investigate the January 6 insurrection —hearings that began last night and will run for the next several weeks — unless they lead to criminal prosecution of Donald Trump for his patently criminal actions?
If Trump escapes justice, the record will show that he did so because of the silence of the Republicans in the Senate and House. Their conspiracy in denying the truth and preventing the lawful consequences of an attempted coup d'état will damn their party for all of history.
I don't know if the GOP will be "damned" for all of history. I do believe that democracy, the crucial freedom of basic rights, health, education, work, protections with the rule of laws that should apply to everyone and some level of economic equality will be, just to name a few ways life will change forever. The worst thing that can happen is that Trump proves that no laws apply to elite plutocratic class. Ruth Ben Ghiat the scholar on culture and authoritarianism has stated the only way to stop a dictator is with indictments and the consequences meted out for their crimes. If Trump is not punished the entire nation will committed to the darkness of authoritarian cruelty.
The comments today help us to appreciate that the idea of history which underpinned my own initial comment, an idea which I think was also underpinning Robert Reich's initial post which saw in history a future vantage point from which these dark times would be judged, would not itself survive if Trump were allowed to escape justice and then were to be re-elected as President. In order to defend his manifold violations of US constitutional and criminal law, he would need to destroy the Constitution itself, and the two hundred and fifty years of laws built upon it. He would in effect need to destroy the idea of history as rational progress, as the perpetual increase in individual social rights and moral responsibilities. He would reduce communication to the ungrammatical, irrational, disconnected stuttering which characterises his own use of language. Barbarism was the name given by the Greeks to this speech.
Well he sure had a good start on destroying many parts of our gov like the USPS & Social Security Admin, & State Dept where he left many jobs unfilled! I’m beginning to believe his Attorney Michael Cohen is correct in calling him Teflon Don!! But I will be very very disappointed if he escapes prosecution. It’s not right & it’s extremely unlawful! History will be making jokes about all the people in power allowing him to escape judgment. It would be a sure fire embarrassment to the DOJ if this happens! It would show they actually do NOT believe in the rule of law if they don’t prosecute tRump for helping to plan & inciting the riot that caused millions of dollars of taxpayer money to have to be used for repairs to the Capitol bldg notwithstanding the deaths & injuries incurred by police! Those things alone should offer enough reason to prosecute somebody. The opening night hearing provided much evidence of intent so I just hope Garland will do his job & not wuss out on the Country because History would certainly not be too kind on him if he does!
A common Q-publican trope is in making Democrats out to be Socialists. In the spirit of "make the crime fit the punishment," I think it behooves us to know what bona-fide Socialists have to say - in self-defense, if for no other reason. To that end, here's what bona-fide Socialists have to say about the 1/6 hearings:
DZK, thank you very much for the links. I have already learned about the fascist Ginni Thomas. I agree completely with everything said in your first link about the Coup. Those facts are simply indisputable. Noam Chomsky called the GOP "the most dangerous political party in the world" years ago! At the time that I read that I had no idea what that meant, but I sure do now. Two events that I believe were critical to bringing us to this pivotal moment....1) The Lewis Powell Memo (Supreme Court justice from 1971-1987) that said, and I quote "Memorandum Attack on the American Free Enterprise System" written August 23rd, 1971. (and this guy was a DEMOCRAT) This was literally a call to arms to the corporations of this country to dominate and run the US and the workers for the benefit of the ruling class. PERIOD. Read this if you have not. After he wrote this appointed him to the SC for this brilliant piece of writing. (!!! 2) The GOP soon after this began their love affair with Russia and learned the techniques to bring Russianization to the US. The stealing of the presidency from Al Gore in 2000 was a crucial moment creating the template of how states do that, through their secretaries of state. There is a long ugly history here. But I must say this, we still live, tenuously, in a democracy and Trump and every collaborator needs to be indicted and taken through our criminal justice system. THAT is the ONLY way to stop authoritarianism. Do our present leaders (ugh!) have the courage? I believe this country can pull out of this but it's going to be violent.
Chomsky is only echoing a US specific version of what Shirer asserts concerning the NAZIs in "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." In my own words, Shirer asserts that the right is always far more dangerous than the left, because the right invariably >seems< to embrace the traditional national values. (Think of ol' Tweety making a big display of embracing the US flag. The damn thing should be given a proper, ceremonial burn and buried with honor. Also, his big display of holding up the bible. >Seems!<) By contrast, the left invariably stands against the traditional abuses that derive from those traditional values. It's hard to say to a population "your values are bullshit" and get energetic support - except from those folks those values have always shat upon, and they tend to be a minority.
An occasion to think deeply for sure. Yesterday Officer Edwards testified that she was not trained for combat, that she was trained to detain a few people, she was trained for crowd control. But the officers found themselves literally in a bloody combat situation.
OK So so the fact that help was urgent was obvious to the National Guard, to the Secret Service, and other police authority in Washington DC. But no help was given for HOURS. Officer Edwards made clear that the Capital Police did not have training to quell mob violence resembling a combat zone, which means that...
There were definitely people in authority in Washington that did know that, and that nevertheless did not offer assistance to the Capital Police. Why not? What could have prevented proper forces from quelling the violent mob?
The Justice Department needs the net to capture the entire organization of crooks that enabled the madman president to nearly stage a coup. The coup was not only the Proud Boys and President Rump. The coup involved many threads, and they all must be rounded up, and that means the Justice Department would fail if it only prosecuted the, well, prosecuted only the Hands and the Head of the Coup leaving the other body parts in place for future woe.
Agreed. Also, while there is no violation of law that will be believed or even matter to his cult followers, it might get a few thousand people to vote in the right direction, and the elections ahead may be that close that this determines the outcome.
We have come to the point in our democracy where we have to search for the silver lining rather than expect a just conclusion for those who so demonstrably break the law and ignore normal acceptable behavior.
I think we will wind up with better than that. I know we’re all disgusted with the Republicans (most of them) and their ways. When a man with a rifle tried to get Brett Kavanaugh, that’s a way of showing that if you’re against gun control and all the things we should have, it just might come back to bite you. I think many people might like to shoot Brett Kavanaugh and all the other mean conservative Justices, and Trump, and all. But we won’t. Nonetheless, people will find a way to right this ship. Trump was worse than I had predicted he’d be, but as Robert Reich says, he’ll live in infamy.
Carol. Please try and remember there are mean democrats too. Many people thought Obama was a pompous ass. At some point in time Americans need to come together and find solutions. Trump ran for office because of Obama's actions. I am hoping this cycle is broken in the 2024 election with good honest qualified candidates under the age of 65 years old. That will rule out both Trump and Biden!
The “meanness scale” tips heavily to the Republican side. This is not a balance. Until the vast majority of Republicans hold Trump and his acolytes responsible I will not vote for ANY Republican. Period!
If Trump AND his collaborators are not held accountable for their crimes what makes you think you will be living in a country where you can vote? Are you aware of the GOP voter suppression laws, voter nullification?
Cecelia, and here I was under the impression that trump was upset during the White House Correspondent Dinner when fun was made of him. His ego couldn’t handle it and that’s when he made the decision to run for office. While I’m at it, I cannot fail to mention the incredible role the media played then. Trump invented “the more outrageous one is, the more publicity that gives name recognition”. Do you suppose we’d have ever heard of Greene, Boebert, Cawthorn and they’d become household names? There’s a lot of blame to go around.
Jola. You are correct. Probably why Dr. Oz has won his election bid. Why do you think Madonna and Lady Gaga are so well known? Because they are outrageous. Why do you think people have blue, pink and green hair? To stand out from the crowd. It is a crazy time we are living in. Thank you for caring.
Stephen many were marching when Madona said she wanted to burn down the White House after Trump was elected. Many were involved in the BLM too. Blame to go around for many.
Carol, so once again, just who are the “mean Democrats”, apart from the obvious 2 wretched creatures Manchin & Sinema?
Yes, there are a number of House & Senate Democrats who are way too conservative in their positions, but I’m not sure that they are “mean”. Are these the “mean” Democrats you are referring to?.
Why can't we have a "just conclusion?" The black guy pulled over in his car for a traffic infraction, killed by police instantly, that's a "just conclusion?" What exactly does the "silver lining" look like? Putin's Russia, Ukrainians having their country destroyed?
We must do so NOW. We must not let Republicans win in November or 2024, and actually must gain seats in the Senate. You guys know this. But this is REAL. The predictions are coming true, even if climate science didn’t match the results in the 70s, it does now. We must keep this in mind. Please.
Right because somehow these serious distractions arise, like abortion rights, the war in Ukraine, the war against marginalized communities--horrible things that are imporant to resist. NEVERTHELESS the existential threat is more important than everything else. Existence is threatened. The serious distractions keep us from toppling the system of capitalist exploitation and saving more of the earth biosphere.
Biden is trying to do some things but can't get anything passed because of the republicans, Manchin and Sinema.
On Monday, the Biden administration made a series of announcements declaring an electricity supply emergency and invoking the Defense Production Act (DPA) of 1950 to increase domestic production in clean energy sectors that will be crucial for decarbonization, including solar panels, electric heat pumps, insulation, and more.
These actions, says Roosevelt Director of Industrial Policy and Trade Todd N. Tucker, represent “a historic acknowledgement of the climate crisis by the federal government, and a fundamental pivot by the United States toward a clean energy transition that creates good jobs here at home.”
It’s sorta sad how we’ve come, “wisely,” to expect the Republican voters’ total refusal to admit any wrongdoing of the president and refusal of countless facts. I don’t mean to suggest it is unwise to think this. I don’t know how to respect my fellow American. But thanks for the optimism! Such as it is! 🇺🇸
Two thoughts on respecting our fellow Americans, by which I am sure you mean the despicable ones not deserving of respect. (1) I don't. I will not pretend any respect for or be polite about people who are aligned with such over-the-line evils as are now the hallmarks of the GOP, and I don't think anyone should. To the contrary, I think the clearest, least flinching calling out and opposition have become a moral duty. There is not even a family member I would interact with at this point if they were in support of Trump and his following and "policies". (2) In "olden times" I have advised others to see that the persons they oppose are sincerely trying to do what they consider to be the most good, ... but this is not that. There is no seeing the other's point of view when it is bound up in abject, intentional, and unashamed wrongdoing.
The people I’ve encountered seem think they ARE in the moral high ground on stuff. They’re convinced. They’re deeply delusional, and would have failed any easy logic test, but they think they’re right. Even my Stanford-grad, former-judge uncle. It seems so easy to say they’re stupid. They aren’t, overall, super educated. My friend diagnoses it as “lizard-brain override.” The politicians are beyond redemption. But the people? Most people have hearts and it shows in their real lives even if we don’t know them.
There are plenty of not-stupid and even very smart people on the morally wrong side of most any given issue. But as you point out, there is a logic gap, or as your friend points out, a personal or religio-tribal fealty factor that renders facts and reasoning impotent. In better times, those factors bend me towards compassion and attempts to communicate and willingness to compromise. For me, we are long-past those times on these matters. If someone says, “but Trump is good fir the economy,” for example, rather than focus on that not being true, I am focused on it not being acceptable for that to be more important (even if it were true) than stoking racial hatred, violence , misogyny, destruction of social progress, international standing, democracy, … If that is someone’s “reasoning,” I am beyond needing to be respectful or polite or even just quiet.
Yeah. I gotta stop trying to convince people of anything however obvious on Twitter. It just seems like some of these people only know who the president is and blame him for everything, like inflation. It’s like yelling at the top of your lungs at someone yelling at the top of their lungs at you, the opposite thing. Obviously Twitter is not the only place to encounter people. I do think there are people who simply don’t follow politics at large and don’t feel the need to vote, who might be reached (not on Twitter(?))
I cannot even contemplate a lack of prosecution of this coward when people were killed. It’s the direct result of his actions. As it is, our justice system has been weakened and it will spiral out of control if there is no accountability. Elie Mystal thought that these hearings are for the audience of one, namely, Merrick Garland. I hope he’s right.
True. But I think Robert is right; Trump will live in infamy, and as an example of what can go wrong so that people will try to prevent people like him from showing up again.
Well, Hitler has gone down in history as vile...and yet there are still neo-Nazi's and yet the sons and daughters (figuratively speaking) of those men and women who rose up and fought a world war against Fascism are using every tactic invented & used by Hitler and Goebbels in order to establish fascism here.
Should be that the dog whistle to racist collective subconscious is not "speech" under the Constitution. See "fighting words" exception. Chaplinsky. Lewd and obscene, profane, libelous, and insulting words are not protected.
Thank you Daniel. It is illegal to incite violence, but seemingly the society is powerless to stop Tanker Charliehorse from vile incitement on a national broadcast. Incitement to violence is NOT free speech.
Carol. I agree with you. We have to prevent people that want to divide us for running for office. I know we have good candidates out there. Unfortunately money in politics is the biggest issues right now.
Trump doesn’t care about living in infamy nor about his position in history. It’s difficult to fathom how any nation could elect such an ignoramus to the highest office. He is the most compelling case for Equal Time Rule as name recognition is the greatest asset in any election. We will find out in November whether the charlatan Oz will become a U.S. Senator.
Yes Trump will carry the banner of fascism for many years. As with numerous carriers of the Fascist banner in the past his legacy will be linked to theirs. Like a tow chain these individuals who disdain democracy will be forever shackled together. There is no escaping truth, it will set you free. The only outcome I wish for is that the citizens of the USA will learn to recognize domestic enemies against America and electorally dismiss them from participating in our family discussion for a more enlightened America.
But how can we "learn to recognize domestic enemies against America" if we continue to be "taught" by the fearmongering likes of Trump? Sinclair Lewis warned us of Fascism's "coming to America" long ago, as did DH Lawrence, ie: "“The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”
― D.H. Lawrence, Studies in Classic American Literature
Peter Parsons ; A lot of us HAVE been taught and KNOW better. I disagree with D.H Lawrence. The American soul is not a hard isolate stoic (that was the Marlboro man) killer.
No matter what happens, he is a criminal and most people will know it. I fear that if he does not get indicted it will cause many to doubt our justice system and drive home the notion that there is a two tiered justice system in this country. At the very least, he should be found insane and locked up!
I'd rather he turn into yesterday's bad joke. Much as I'd love to see him "pay" for all the damage, I remember that Hitler never "paid" for what he stirred up. When the allies were knocking at his door for payback, he simply shot himself. All Germany "paid" his tab -- including the Germans who hated him all along and were murdered early in his regime and the ones who decided to lie low and simply try to survive WWII.
Cyrano, Hitler paid.by shooting himself. They all paid. Some of them shot each other. Trump, awful as he is, is no Hitler and doesn’t command the enormous fanatical crowds that he did, although Trump has tried. He’s not as insane as Hitler. It’s just that we have to keep him under control.
Carol F. Yost ; Yes, he doesn't need any coaching from Putin! Scary how he called him 'Genius' for what he did invading Ukraine without any real threat from them. They were making him look bad by enjoying a Democracy, and potentially having the support of the West.
Cyrano ; There are those who say the body of the 'dead Hitler ' was not him. There is evidence that he made his way to Argentina. But that is another story.
I'm thinking the unthinkable ; That Putin and the oligarchs and authoritarians of the world have already taken over. Dark money pervades our elections and lawmakers decisions. There was a reason for the rules laid down long ago by our founders that no money should be taken from foreign interests. Once the corporations became multinational and traded on world markets it was game over . Is there a remedy? What can be done by citizens (humans) to ameliorate this situation, if possible? Dr Reich ; Is there one of your books you can recommend that might help explain multinational corporations and other things that can gum up the works and give control to bad actors over our lives? Or is it too late?
Laurie, we sat by for way too long as people witnessed a crime that should have resulted in the deaths of the terrorists who violently broke in to our capital. In addition, Trump is deserving of the death penalty. Spies have received that sentence, this is worse. He not only incited this deadly horror but COLLUDED with Putin! As our politicians sat with their thumbs up their…..
The other authoritarians and dictators of the world are rooting for trump to get back into office. They believe they can run the world if they get trump back and he finishes destroying NATO. Like Biden and NATO or not, they are all that is protecting the world right now from the dictators. I read often of Biden's limitations but he did a masterful job of pulling NATO together.
Biden has come through on many fronts and has been much more effective than I expected. He’s a good statesman and leader but he must pull out every stop while he can! Make Executive orders! Right wingers be damned. He needs to shove through everything he can and plug his ears to anyone who thinks the Republicans are anything than a vicious cult. For the sake of our nation he must swing as hard as he can with every single legal technicality now!
William Cash ; I am not anti NATO or anti Biden since they may be some of the last defenses against authoritarians and dictators. Like many others I am frustrated with the attempts at 'bipartisanship' with those who just do not want to dance to that tune.
The doomsayers are out in full dress! Death must come before there can be a resurrection. The doomsayers are correct; the horse is out of the barn. There will be great suffering before we will be reborn to a new self. As John Prine says -"that's the way that the world goes round."
I agree Laurie. Not issuing strong punishment will put us right back to where we are. Allowing a lunatic to get away with an attempted deadly coup on his own country will create an incredible distrust forever more of our political system.
Seeking Reason ; It will also have a domino effect on our voting process if there is no Federal pushback on the destruction of our voting process integrity.
There already is a two-tiered system. Meadows was not indicted for contempt because of a precedent set during Watergate that said close advisers to the president cannot be forced to testify. Imagine that!
David Brooks, of the NYTimes, feels that the main purpose should be that we make changes to our systems so that this can never happen again. After Watergate and the 9/11 commission many changes were immediately put in place and that is what he says should be the number one thing to come of these hearings.
I hope this turns out to be right. But, if trump isn't indicted, and at least tried, this will happen again and the Democracy we have held for 240 years will crumble and return to authoritarian regimes. Thank goodness, I am old, and won't have to witness that.
Does Brooks really believe those changes can be made while the republicans retain the power to block them? Brooks is still protective of the republican party.
Republicans will ban any book that refers to Trump and all of his crimes and no one will be allowed to teach it. I want to see Trump put in prison!! Treason used to be punishable by death!!
In my view, we have a small window to protect the key mechanisms of democracy in the U.S. If designated top officials up to and including Trump are not held accountable for criminal behavior, for which there clearly is factual predication, make no mistake: the perpetuation of false grievances that the 2020 election was stolen would succeed unimpeded.
I expect, in turn, Republicans would retake either one or both Houses in 22, thereby virtually blocking furtherance of any of Biden’s domestic agenda. A likely Trump or MAGA Republican presidential win in 24 surely would mark a fatal weakening of our civic institutions and, further down the road, the ability to consolidate power, wherein the rule of law was subjected to an individual.
Circling back, I would conclude the one thing the radical right of the Republican Party loathes more than liberals, and for good reasons, is the truth.
Donald Trump is pure filth. Whether or not he is prosecuted and convicted, there will be those who view him as a hero and exemplar of righteousness. Alternatively, there will be those who see him as the scum he is. As always, it will be how history is taught; how children are raised; the quality of political leadership; and, the level of civic engagement, i.e. voter turnout, that will determine the course and quality of America's future.
While I wish the former president indicted and convicted, I realize it would change few minds and fail to remove the scales from the eyes of the converted red hat cult. I have no schadenfreude for anything which befalls him or his kith and kin because we all share in the responsibility for allowing the dark forces to lap at the shores of our democracy by often not voting at all or voting only the fears he stoked up in far too many of us.
I know his ultimate accountability will come with the celestial sorting between the sheep and the goats. This is a test he cannot stall his way around or buy his way out of. May God have mercy on his soul.
And may we have the strength and courage to right the ship of state and continue sailing forward to a "more perfect union".
I agree as to the logic of where we are with this criminal. I can tell it’s not your preferred actions. He should be tarred feathered and hung. He is a fascist and brutal dictator. Republicans that have joined him should be expelled. Liz Chaney should immortalized for her courage. Average Americans need to take a stand for their freedom and democracy
Absolutely. We have to have what we tell ourselves about it. We have to have our conclusion about what really happened and who was responsible so we have that to create our future from.
Cynthia. You hit the nail on the head. How can we learn from what happened on 1/6. What were the lessons. Why was their no one in our federal government that was being proactive on 1/3, 1/4 and 1/5. Where was our security for our capitol? Perhaps we will all learn and make things much better for our people and our nation.
I think the insurrection was an inside job. Trump probably arranged for key people to be in-place on the day and to not respond as they would have to ordinary tourism.
Let us be clear. Donald J. Trump IS STILL "the most dangerous man in America" quoting his niece. Trump is Benedict Arnold, the famous American traitor, and P.T. Barnum, the circus showman who famously said,"there is a sucker born every minute" all rolled up into one. Unfortunately both were born in my home state of Connecticut. From a clinical perspective, Trump has a serious personality disorder that causes him to be centered on himself only, and totally devoid of any moral compass or real compassion.
Trump knows what aggrieved, angry, and fearful folks want to hear, and appeals to their sense of felt powerlessness. He also appeals to politicians who see what he garnered for himself, and crave that power. Like many of the "Reality" shows, he appeals to humankind's basest emotions and unrequited desires. He is Caesar presiding over the lions and gladiators in the bloody battles done for show in the Roman Coliseum. And he loves it.
This man must NEVER run in an election again, nor can we afford to banish him from our country because having been President, he knows all the state secrets and would sell them at the drop of a hat if he hasn't already. God knows what he gave to Putin. He needs to be locked up in a secure place, and my fervent hope is that this will come to pass.
I was a pollworker for 17 yrs.,we had very strict election laws and procedures.So now we have Doug Mastroiano telling us 'with the stroke of his pen he could wipe out what's on the election machine.And now he has an idea he wants everyone to reregister .Pure drek,and I'm sending a little note to the DOJ.This idiot was involved in the fake electoral votes.
Very true. But the lack of prosecution will undermine our justice system in such a fundamental way. How can we ever put people in jail for vastly less serious offenses when we won’t even prosecute someone who attempted to overthrow the government by waging war against it? For the sake of our system of justice where we at least pretend that laws apply to everyone no matter how rich, famous or position they hold, we must do this.
If Trump escapes justice, the record will show that he did so because of the silence of the Republicans in the Senate and House. Their conspiracy in denying the truth and preventing the lawful consequences of an attempted coup d'état will damn their party for all of history.
I don't know if the GOP will be "damned" for all of history. I do believe that democracy, the crucial freedom of basic rights, health, education, work, protections with the rule of laws that should apply to everyone and some level of economic equality will be, just to name a few ways life will change forever. The worst thing that can happen is that Trump proves that no laws apply to elite plutocratic class. Ruth Ben Ghiat the scholar on culture and authoritarianism has stated the only way to stop a dictator is with indictments and the consequences meted out for their crimes. If Trump is not punished the entire nation will committed to the darkness of authoritarian cruelty.
Hurrah! I hope so.
The comments today help us to appreciate that the idea of history which underpinned my own initial comment, an idea which I think was also underpinning Robert Reich's initial post which saw in history a future vantage point from which these dark times would be judged, would not itself survive if Trump were allowed to escape justice and then were to be re-elected as President. In order to defend his manifold violations of US constitutional and criminal law, he would need to destroy the Constitution itself, and the two hundred and fifty years of laws built upon it. He would in effect need to destroy the idea of history as rational progress, as the perpetual increase in individual social rights and moral responsibilities. He would reduce communication to the ungrammatical, irrational, disconnected stuttering which characterises his own use of language. Barbarism was the name given by the Greeks to this speech.
Well he sure had a good start on destroying many parts of our gov like the USPS & Social Security Admin, & State Dept where he left many jobs unfilled! I’m beginning to believe his Attorney Michael Cohen is correct in calling him Teflon Don!! But I will be very very disappointed if he escapes prosecution. It’s not right & it’s extremely unlawful! History will be making jokes about all the people in power allowing him to escape judgment. It would be a sure fire embarrassment to the DOJ if this happens! It would show they actually do NOT believe in the rule of law if they don’t prosecute tRump for helping to plan & inciting the riot that caused millions of dollars of taxpayer money to have to be used for repairs to the Capitol bldg notwithstanding the deaths & injuries incurred by police! Those things alone should offer enough reason to prosecute somebody. The opening night hearing provided much evidence of intent so I just hope Garland will do his job & not wuss out on the Country because History would certainly not be too kind on him if he does!
A common Q-publican trope is in making Democrats out to be Socialists. In the spirit of "make the crime fit the punishment," I think it behooves us to know what bona-fide Socialists have to say - in self-defense, if for no other reason. To that end, here's what bona-fide Socialists have to say about the 1/6 hearings:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/06/11/lywa-j11.html?pk_campaign=newsletter&pk_kwd=wsws
also
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/06/11/lerk-j11.html?pk_campaign=newsletter&pk_kwd=wsws
I urge everyone to read the article. Agree or disagree with what they say, their statement is cogent, if not compelling.
DZK, thank you very much for the links. I have already learned about the fascist Ginni Thomas. I agree completely with everything said in your first link about the Coup. Those facts are simply indisputable. Noam Chomsky called the GOP "the most dangerous political party in the world" years ago! At the time that I read that I had no idea what that meant, but I sure do now. Two events that I believe were critical to bringing us to this pivotal moment....1) The Lewis Powell Memo (Supreme Court justice from 1971-1987) that said, and I quote "Memorandum Attack on the American Free Enterprise System" written August 23rd, 1971. (and this guy was a DEMOCRAT) This was literally a call to arms to the corporations of this country to dominate and run the US and the workers for the benefit of the ruling class. PERIOD. Read this if you have not. After he wrote this appointed him to the SC for this brilliant piece of writing. (!!! 2) The GOP soon after this began their love affair with Russia and learned the techniques to bring Russianization to the US. The stealing of the presidency from Al Gore in 2000 was a crucial moment creating the template of how states do that, through their secretaries of state. There is a long ugly history here. But I must say this, we still live, tenuously, in a democracy and Trump and every collaborator needs to be indicted and taken through our criminal justice system. THAT is the ONLY way to stop authoritarianism. Do our present leaders (ugh!) have the courage? I believe this country can pull out of this but it's going to be violent.
Chomsky is only echoing a US specific version of what Shirer asserts concerning the NAZIs in "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." In my own words, Shirer asserts that the right is always far more dangerous than the left, because the right invariably >seems< to embrace the traditional national values. (Think of ol' Tweety making a big display of embracing the US flag. The damn thing should be given a proper, ceremonial burn and buried with honor. Also, his big display of holding up the bible. >Seems!<) By contrast, the left invariably stands against the traditional abuses that derive from those traditional values. It's hard to say to a population "your values are bullshit" and get energetic support - except from those folks those values have always shat upon, and they tend to be a minority.
Thank you so much! I will read it. BTW, I am a socialist myself, although I don’t capitalize it. I’m against profit economics that put people last.
Robert Clark ; Republicans would get some damning for sure, But what about the Justice Department? Let's see what happens.
An occasion to think deeply for sure. Yesterday Officer Edwards testified that she was not trained for combat, that she was trained to detain a few people, she was trained for crowd control. But the officers found themselves literally in a bloody combat situation.
OK So so the fact that help was urgent was obvious to the National Guard, to the Secret Service, and other police authority in Washington DC. But no help was given for HOURS. Officer Edwards made clear that the Capital Police did not have training to quell mob violence resembling a combat zone, which means that...
There were definitely people in authority in Washington that did know that, and that nevertheless did not offer assistance to the Capital Police. Why not? What could have prevented proper forces from quelling the violent mob?
The Justice Department needs the net to capture the entire organization of crooks that enabled the madman president to nearly stage a coup. The coup was not only the Proud Boys and President Rump. The coup involved many threads, and they all must be rounded up, and that means the Justice Department would fail if it only prosecuted the, well, prosecuted only the Hands and the Head of the Coup leaving the other body parts in place for future woe.
--RW
Agreed. Also, while there is no violation of law that will be believed or even matter to his cult followers, it might get a few thousand people to vote in the right direction, and the elections ahead may be that close that this determines the outcome.
We have come to the point in our democracy where we have to search for the silver lining rather than expect a just conclusion for those who so demonstrably break the law and ignore normal acceptable behavior.
I think we will wind up with better than that. I know we’re all disgusted with the Republicans (most of them) and their ways. When a man with a rifle tried to get Brett Kavanaugh, that’s a way of showing that if you’re against gun control and all the things we should have, it just might come back to bite you. I think many people might like to shoot Brett Kavanaugh and all the other mean conservative Justices, and Trump, and all. But we won’t. Nonetheless, people will find a way to right this ship. Trump was worse than I had predicted he’d be, but as Robert Reich says, he’ll live in infamy.
Carol. Please try and remember there are mean democrats too. Many people thought Obama was a pompous ass. At some point in time Americans need to come together and find solutions. Trump ran for office because of Obama's actions. I am hoping this cycle is broken in the 2024 election with good honest qualified candidates under the age of 65 years old. That will rule out both Trump and Biden!
The “meanness scale” tips heavily to the Republican side. This is not a balance. Until the vast majority of Republicans hold Trump and his acolytes responsible I will not vote for ANY Republican. Period!
If Trump AND his collaborators are not held accountable for their crimes what makes you think you will be living in a country where you can vote? Are you aware of the GOP voter suppression laws, voter nullification?
All the more reason to ensure that they ARE held accountable.
You’re right.
I’m aware there are mean Democrats. Biden unfortunately has his limitations but they’re not related to his age!
Wow! The partisan delusion continues. It was a "fascist coup attempt" by Trump!
Cecelia, and here I was under the impression that trump was upset during the White House Correspondent Dinner when fun was made of him. His ego couldn’t handle it and that’s when he made the decision to run for office. While I’m at it, I cannot fail to mention the incredible role the media played then. Trump invented “the more outrageous one is, the more publicity that gives name recognition”. Do you suppose we’d have ever heard of Greene, Boebert, Cawthorn and they’d become household names? There’s a lot of blame to go around.
Jola. You are correct. Probably why Dr. Oz has won his election bid. Why do you think Madonna and Lady Gaga are so well known? Because they are outrageous. Why do you think people have blue, pink and green hair? To stand out from the crowd. It is a crazy time we are living in. Thank you for caring.
Can you name these mean democrats other than joe manchineel and Kristin S?
Stephen many were marching when Madona said she wanted to burn down the White House after Trump was elected. Many were involved in the BLM too. Blame to go around for many.
Name the mean dems if you can? Anyone who fights for humanity or democratic rights is a good person!
Unless the Republican dictators are writing the history. Destroy the evidence, and lie.
They will not get away with it.
Carol, so once again, just who are the “mean Democrats”, apart from the obvious 2 wretched creatures Manchin & Sinema?
Yes, there are a number of House & Senate Democrats who are way too conservative in their positions, but I’m not sure that they are “mean”. Are these the “mean” Democrats you are referring to?.
Why can't we have a "just conclusion?" The black guy pulled over in his car for a traffic infraction, killed by police instantly, that's a "just conclusion?" What exactly does the "silver lining" look like? Putin's Russia, Ukrainians having their country destroyed?
Just a quick note to say this planet is headed toward literally apocalyptic conditions…
Right, but there are things we can do.
We must do so NOW. We must not let Republicans win in November or 2024, and actually must gain seats in the Senate. You guys know this. But this is REAL. The predictions are coming true, even if climate science didn’t match the results in the 70s, it does now. We must keep this in mind. Please.
Not while the republicans can stop it.
And it's not even part of the discussion
Right because somehow these serious distractions arise, like abortion rights, the war in Ukraine, the war against marginalized communities--horrible things that are imporant to resist. NEVERTHELESS the existential threat is more important than everything else. Existence is threatened. The serious distractions keep us from toppling the system of capitalist exploitation and saving more of the earth biosphere.
Biden is trying to do some things but can't get anything passed because of the republicans, Manchin and Sinema.
On Monday, the Biden administration made a series of announcements declaring an electricity supply emergency and invoking the Defense Production Act (DPA) of 1950 to increase domestic production in clean energy sectors that will be crucial for decarbonization, including solar panels, electric heat pumps, insulation, and more.
These actions, says Roosevelt Director of Industrial Policy and Trade Todd N. Tucker, represent “a historic acknowledgement of the climate crisis by the federal government, and a fundamental pivot by the United States toward a clean energy transition that creates good jobs here at home.”
Sad but true.
It’s sorta sad how we’ve come, “wisely,” to expect the Republican voters’ total refusal to admit any wrongdoing of the president and refusal of countless facts. I don’t mean to suggest it is unwise to think this. I don’t know how to respect my fellow American. But thanks for the optimism! Such as it is! 🇺🇸
Two thoughts on respecting our fellow Americans, by which I am sure you mean the despicable ones not deserving of respect. (1) I don't. I will not pretend any respect for or be polite about people who are aligned with such over-the-line evils as are now the hallmarks of the GOP, and I don't think anyone should. To the contrary, I think the clearest, least flinching calling out and opposition have become a moral duty. There is not even a family member I would interact with at this point if they were in support of Trump and his following and "policies". (2) In "olden times" I have advised others to see that the persons they oppose are sincerely trying to do what they consider to be the most good, ... but this is not that. There is no seeing the other's point of view when it is bound up in abject, intentional, and unashamed wrongdoing.
The people I’ve encountered seem think they ARE in the moral high ground on stuff. They’re convinced. They’re deeply delusional, and would have failed any easy logic test, but they think they’re right. Even my Stanford-grad, former-judge uncle. It seems so easy to say they’re stupid. They aren’t, overall, super educated. My friend diagnoses it as “lizard-brain override.” The politicians are beyond redemption. But the people? Most people have hearts and it shows in their real lives even if we don’t know them.
There are plenty of not-stupid and even very smart people on the morally wrong side of most any given issue. But as you point out, there is a logic gap, or as your friend points out, a personal or religio-tribal fealty factor that renders facts and reasoning impotent. In better times, those factors bend me towards compassion and attempts to communicate and willingness to compromise. For me, we are long-past those times on these matters. If someone says, “but Trump is good fir the economy,” for example, rather than focus on that not being true, I am focused on it not being acceptable for that to be more important (even if it were true) than stoking racial hatred, violence , misogyny, destruction of social progress, international standing, democracy, … If that is someone’s “reasoning,” I am beyond needing to be respectful or polite or even just quiet.
Yeah. I gotta stop trying to convince people of anything however obvious on Twitter. It just seems like some of these people only know who the president is and blame him for everything, like inflation. It’s like yelling at the top of your lungs at someone yelling at the top of their lungs at you, the opposite thing. Obviously Twitter is not the only place to encounter people. I do think there are people who simply don’t follow politics at large and don’t feel the need to vote, who might be reached (not on Twitter(?))
You are 100% right.
Yes, all this evidence might sway enough people not to vote for Republicans. Something to hope for, fervently.
I cannot even contemplate a lack of prosecution of this coward when people were killed. It’s the direct result of his actions. As it is, our justice system has been weakened and it will spiral out of control if there is no accountability. Elie Mystal thought that these hearings are for the audience of one, namely, Merrick Garland. I hope he’s right.
True. But I think Robert is right; Trump will live in infamy, and as an example of what can go wrong so that people will try to prevent people like him from showing up again.
Well, Hitler has gone down in history as vile...and yet there are still neo-Nazi's and yet the sons and daughters (figuratively speaking) of those men and women who rose up and fought a world war against Fascism are using every tactic invented & used by Hitler and Goebbels in order to establish fascism here.
Should be that the dog whistle to racist collective subconscious is not "speech" under the Constitution. See "fighting words" exception. Chaplinsky. Lewd and obscene, profane, libelous, and insulting words are not protected.
I also think that the DC attorney general can indict. http://dccode.org/simple-2012/22.html
Thank you Daniel!
Thank you Daniel. It is illegal to incite violence, but seemingly the society is powerless to stop Tanker Charliehorse from vile incitement on a national broadcast. Incitement to violence is NOT free speech.
Daniel Solomon ; Interesting, the 'fighting words" exception.
That’s not the whole story. If we are too pessimistic, we won’t do anything.
Carol. I agree with you. We have to prevent people that want to divide us for running for office. I know we have good candidates out there. Unfortunately money in politics is the biggest issues right now.
Money runs our country. EVERYday my email is jammed with requests for money to help elect a candidate. What? Money? Vote!
Right. Voting is the only thing. My votes are not bought.
Right you are!
We need a better informed voter to keep trump living in infamy.
Okay, let’s inform!
I have been trying. I’m very curious to see what response the other side has thus far.
Trump doesn’t care about living in infamy nor about his position in history. It’s difficult to fathom how any nation could elect such an ignoramus to the highest office. He is the most compelling case for Equal Time Rule as name recognition is the greatest asset in any election. We will find out in November whether the charlatan Oz will become a U.S. Senator.
He may not care, or at least he may try not to, but it will affect him.
Carol, may you be right. The only thing that will affect him is prison.
Yes Trump will carry the banner of fascism for many years. As with numerous carriers of the Fascist banner in the past his legacy will be linked to theirs. Like a tow chain these individuals who disdain democracy will be forever shackled together. There is no escaping truth, it will set you free. The only outcome I wish for is that the citizens of the USA will learn to recognize domestic enemies against America and electorally dismiss them from participating in our family discussion for a more enlightened America.
Michael, I hope your wish comes true.
But how can we "learn to recognize domestic enemies against America" if we continue to be "taught" by the fearmongering likes of Trump? Sinclair Lewis warned us of Fascism's "coming to America" long ago, as did DH Lawrence, ie: "“The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.”
― D.H. Lawrence, Studies in Classic American Literature
Peter Parsons ; A lot of us HAVE been taught and KNOW better. I disagree with D.H Lawrence. The American soul is not a hard isolate stoic (that was the Marlboro man) killer.
No matter what happens, he is a criminal and most people will know it. I fear that if he does not get indicted it will cause many to doubt our justice system and drive home the notion that there is a two tiered justice system in this country. At the very least, he should be found insane and locked up!
Laurie ; What ever it takes to make him pay for what he has deliberately, maliciously done to this country.
I'd rather he turn into yesterday's bad joke. Much as I'd love to see him "pay" for all the damage, I remember that Hitler never "paid" for what he stirred up. When the allies were knocking at his door for payback, he simply shot himself. All Germany "paid" his tab -- including the Germans who hated him all along and were murdered early in his regime and the ones who decided to lie low and simply try to survive WWII.
Cyrano, Hitler paid.by shooting himself. They all paid. Some of them shot each other. Trump, awful as he is, is no Hitler and doesn’t command the enormous fanatical crowds that he did, although Trump has tried. He’s not as insane as Hitler. It’s just that we have to keep him under control.
Carol F. Yost ; Yes, he doesn't need any coaching from Putin! Scary how he called him 'Genius' for what he did invading Ukraine without any real threat from them. They were making him look bad by enjoying a Democracy, and potentially having the support of the West.
How would he have paid? Being dead seems like quite a payment to me.
Cyrano ; There are those who say the body of the 'dead Hitler ' was not him. There is evidence that he made his way to Argentina. But that is another story.
I think people already think it’s even a multi-tiered justice system. But it will leave footprints in the sands of time.
I'm thinking the unthinkable ; That Putin and the oligarchs and authoritarians of the world have already taken over. Dark money pervades our elections and lawmakers decisions. There was a reason for the rules laid down long ago by our founders that no money should be taken from foreign interests. Once the corporations became multinational and traded on world markets it was game over . Is there a remedy? What can be done by citizens (humans) to ameliorate this situation, if possible? Dr Reich ; Is there one of your books you can recommend that might help explain multinational corporations and other things that can gum up the works and give control to bad actors over our lives? Or is it too late?
Laurie, we sat by for way too long as people witnessed a crime that should have resulted in the deaths of the terrorists who violently broke in to our capital. In addition, Trump is deserving of the death penalty. Spies have received that sentence, this is worse. He not only incited this deadly horror but COLLUDED with Putin! As our politicians sat with their thumbs up their…..
Giving you a heart. I don’t know what’s up with my phone today. It doesn’t want to let me fill in the hearts.
The other authoritarians and dictators of the world are rooting for trump to get back into office. They believe they can run the world if they get trump back and he finishes destroying NATO. Like Biden and NATO or not, they are all that is protecting the world right now from the dictators. I read often of Biden's limitations but he did a masterful job of pulling NATO together.
Biden has come through on many fronts and has been much more effective than I expected. He’s a good statesman and leader but he must pull out every stop while he can! Make Executive orders! Right wingers be damned. He needs to shove through everything he can and plug his ears to anyone who thinks the Republicans are anything than a vicious cult. For the sake of our nation he must swing as hard as he can with every single legal technicality now!
William Cash ; I am not anti NATO or anti Biden since they may be some of the last defenses against authoritarians and dictators. Like many others I am frustrated with the attempts at 'bipartisanship' with those who just do not want to dance to that tune.
I’m with you on that Laurie!
Laurie. You make very good points. However, I believe it is too late. The horse is now out of the barn.
Good! we'll give him a running start and get him good!
I think the sands of time may sustain a more worthy species than us, ultimately...
I wouldn’t go that far. We just should try to do better, as many people have for centuries.
The doomsayers are out in full dress! Death must come before there can be a resurrection. The doomsayers are correct; the horse is out of the barn. There will be great suffering before we will be reborn to a new self. As John Prine says -"that's the way that the world goes round."
I don’t think we need to go through all that. We can work for change now.
It's not over until the Justice Lady sings!
The cockroaches would do better.
Aw c'mon! they can't sing!
I agree Laurie. Not issuing strong punishment will put us right back to where we are. Allowing a lunatic to get away with an attempted deadly coup on his own country will create an incredible distrust forever more of our political system.
Seeking Reason ; It will also have a domino effect on our voting process if there is no Federal pushback on the destruction of our voting process integrity.
Laurie, I know. I’m holding my breath & need to exhale soon!
I don’t think we’ll be altered forever, but lessons will be learned.
Lessons from history has not happened with these people. The Dems need to learn never ever to give them an inch without doing what the Dem base wants!
Carol F. Yost ; Let's hope!
The nutcase crowd will feel free to do more damage.
Frank Gilbert ; They already do anyway. We have got their number.
There already is a two-tiered system. Meadows was not indicted for contempt because of a precedent set during Watergate that said close advisers to the president cannot be forced to testify. Imagine that!
What a club they set up for themselves! Ugh!
It sure is a set up for them to get away with crimes!
David Brooks, of the NYTimes, feels that the main purpose should be that we make changes to our systems so that this can never happen again. After Watergate and the 9/11 commission many changes were immediately put in place and that is what he says should be the number one thing to come of these hearings.
I hope this turns out to be right. But, if trump isn't indicted, and at least tried, this will happen again and the Democracy we have held for 240 years will crumble and return to authoritarian regimes. Thank goodness, I am old, and won't have to witness that.
I don’t think it will happen like that. Don’t worry. You’ll live to see it get better.
Does Brooks really believe those changes can be made while the republicans retain the power to block them? Brooks is still protective of the republican party.
trump thrives on infamy. I had hoped the hearings would prevent his running again.
Mazel; Hopefully prison will do that.
Yes, that’s a good thought.
Republicans will ban any book that refers to Trump and all of his crimes and no one will be allowed to teach it. I want to see Trump put in prison!! Treason used to be punishable by death!!
tRump will be buried in debt! Civil lawsuits are coming.
In my view, we have a small window to protect the key mechanisms of democracy in the U.S. If designated top officials up to and including Trump are not held accountable for criminal behavior, for which there clearly is factual predication, make no mistake: the perpetuation of false grievances that the 2020 election was stolen would succeed unimpeded.
I expect, in turn, Republicans would retake either one or both Houses in 22, thereby virtually blocking furtherance of any of Biden’s domestic agenda. A likely Trump or MAGA Republican presidential win in 24 surely would mark a fatal weakening of our civic institutions and, further down the road, the ability to consolidate power, wherein the rule of law was subjected to an individual.
Circling back, I would conclude the one thing the radical right of the Republican Party loathes more than liberals, and for good reasons, is the truth.
This is the horror. Clock is ticking.
Precisely!
Donald Trump is pure filth. Whether or not he is prosecuted and convicted, there will be those who view him as a hero and exemplar of righteousness. Alternatively, there will be those who see him as the scum he is. As always, it will be how history is taught; how children are raised; the quality of political leadership; and, the level of civic engagement, i.e. voter turnout, that will determine the course and quality of America's future.
Yes. Voter turnout!! Am I correct only 18% of registered Democrats voted in the California primary? Not a recipe for success.
While I wish the former president indicted and convicted, I realize it would change few minds and fail to remove the scales from the eyes of the converted red hat cult. I have no schadenfreude for anything which befalls him or his kith and kin because we all share in the responsibility for allowing the dark forces to lap at the shores of our democracy by often not voting at all or voting only the fears he stoked up in far too many of us.
I know his ultimate accountability will come with the celestial sorting between the sheep and the goats. This is a test he cannot stall his way around or buy his way out of. May God have mercy on his soul.
And may we have the strength and courage to right the ship of state and continue sailing forward to a "more perfect union".
I agree as to the logic of where we are with this criminal. I can tell it’s not your preferred actions. He should be tarred feathered and hung. He is a fascist and brutal dictator. Republicans that have joined him should be expelled. Liz Chaney should immortalized for her courage. Average Americans need to take a stand for their freedom and democracy
Absolutely. We have to have what we tell ourselves about it. We have to have our conclusion about what really happened and who was responsible so we have that to create our future from.
Cynthia. You hit the nail on the head. How can we learn from what happened on 1/6. What were the lessons. Why was their no one in our federal government that was being proactive on 1/3, 1/4 and 1/5. Where was our security for our capitol? Perhaps we will all learn and make things much better for our people and our nation.
I think the insurrection was an inside job. Trump probably arranged for key people to be in-place on the day and to not respond as they would have to ordinary tourism.
Let us be clear. Donald J. Trump IS STILL "the most dangerous man in America" quoting his niece. Trump is Benedict Arnold, the famous American traitor, and P.T. Barnum, the circus showman who famously said,"there is a sucker born every minute" all rolled up into one. Unfortunately both were born in my home state of Connecticut. From a clinical perspective, Trump has a serious personality disorder that causes him to be centered on himself only, and totally devoid of any moral compass or real compassion.
Trump knows what aggrieved, angry, and fearful folks want to hear, and appeals to their sense of felt powerlessness. He also appeals to politicians who see what he garnered for himself, and crave that power. Like many of the "Reality" shows, he appeals to humankind's basest emotions and unrequited desires. He is Caesar presiding over the lions and gladiators in the bloody battles done for show in the Roman Coliseum. And he loves it.
This man must NEVER run in an election again, nor can we afford to banish him from our country because having been President, he knows all the state secrets and would sell them at the drop of a hat if he hasn't already. God knows what he gave to Putin. He needs to be locked up in a secure place, and my fervent hope is that this will come to pass.
I was a pollworker for 17 yrs.,we had very strict election laws and procedures.So now we have Doug Mastroiano telling us 'with the stroke of his pen he could wipe out what's on the election machine.And now he has an idea he wants everyone to reregister .Pure drek,and I'm sending a little note to the DOJ.This idiot was involved in the fake electoral votes.
Very true. But the lack of prosecution will undermine our justice system in such a fundamental way. How can we ever put people in jail for vastly less serious offenses when we won’t even prosecute someone who attempted to overthrow the government by waging war against it? For the sake of our system of justice where we at least pretend that laws apply to everyone no matter how rich, famous or position they hold, we must do this.